Podcast Summary: HISTORY This Week – "The Bone Wars"

Date: September 29, 2025
Host: Sally Helm (The HISTORY® Channel | Back Pocket Studios)
Featured Guest: Dr. Hans Sues, Head Paleontologist, Smithsonian Institution

Brief Overview

In this engaging episode, “The Bone Wars,” Sally Helm takes listeners deep into a turning point in American scientific history: the fierce and sometimes absurd rivalry between Othniel Charles Marsh and Edward Drinker Cope. Through interviews with paleontologist Dr. Hans Sues and archival stories, the episode traces how these two men’s obsession with dinosaur fossils drove some of the greatest discoveries in paleontology, reshaped our cultural fascination with dinosaurs, and nearly destroyed their reputations and careers in the process.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Quiet Birth of Dinosaur Mania

• The episode opens on October 4th, 1915, with the establishment of Dinosaur National Monument by President Wilson—an event that passes mostly unnoticed.
  • [01:00] Sally Helm: "It is a big win for anyone who loves dinosaurs... as of today, that spot is officially protected. Officially a monument to the dinosaurs."
• At this point, dinosaurs were not widely known among the general public.

Discovering a Lifelong Passion for Dinosaurs

• Dr. Hans Sues shares his childhood love for dinosaurs and paleontology, drawing parallels to the early fascinations of O.C. Marsh.
  • [07:24] Dr. Hans Sues: "In most cases, you know, it starts around 3 or 4, and then it ends at 10 at latest. Then other things happen... and that's when most people lose interest."
  • Sues found belonging among other amateur fossil collectors, underscoring the insular nature of early paleontology.

Character Profiles: O.C. Marsh and Edward Drinker Cope

• O.C. Marsh: A proto-nerd from a poor background, buoyed by his wealthy uncle’s patronage, thrives at Yale and Europe, driven by organizational skills rather than innate genius.
  • [10:38] Dr. Hans Sues: “He was a very determined person... a superb organizer... the kind of person that would, under different circumstances, grow up to be a captain of industry.”
• Edward Drinker Cope: A privileged Quaker prodigy from Pennsylvania, mentored by Joseph Leidy.
  • [11:42] Dr. Hans Sues: “Unlike Marsh, who really probably wasn’t that much of a genius, Cope was a genius.”
  • Gifted but confrontational, Cope tended to “make enemies naturally.”
  • [13:03] Dr. Hans Sues: “He probably got up in the morning, opened the door and immediately made an enemy out there.”

From Friendship to Bitter Rivalry

• Marsh and Cope’s early friendship saw them naming fossils after each other and collaborating on digs.
  • [13:38] Dr. Hans Sues: "In their very early career, they both named new species of fossils after each other."
• The turning point: Marsh bribes a dig foreman behind Cope’s back, and Cope is humiliated after publicly misassembling a plesiosaur skeleton—its head placed on the tail.
  • [18:23] Dr. Hans Sues: "Lydie quietly went up, took the skull from the short tail and moved it up to what Cop had thought was the tail. And it fit perfectly because it was actually the neck."
• Cope tries to buy up and destroy all copies of his erroneous publication, but Marsh keeps one for leverage.
  • [19:35] Dr. Hans Sues: "In fact, I own one."

The Bone Wars Escalate: Out West and Out of Control

• Both men lead fossil-hunting expeditions into the American West, competing for new discoveries and academic fame.
  • [22:17] Dr. Hans Sues: "The Sioux at least called them thunder horses... after really heavy thunderstorms, such bones would be washed out."
• Marsh and Cope resort to dirty tricks: hiring spies, stealing fossils, bribing, and allegedly sabotaging each other’s quarries.
  • [24:11] Dr. Hans Sues: “Marsh did the same thing though. Marsh tried to sort of attract people who had worked for Cope to work for him.”
• Notably, they “do anything. Yeah, bribe, steal, you know, shoot each other, you name it.”
  • [25:51] Dr. Hans Sues: “Actually, it’s a miracle that nobody got murdered, at least that we know of.”

Scientific Achievement Amidst Sabotage

• Together, they discover and describe over 120 new dinosaur species, including household names like Brontosaurus, Stegosaurus, and Triceratops.
  • Race to publish results leads to questionable scientific practices, like manipulating publication dates.
    • [25:17] Dr. Hans Sues: "Both of them started futzing around with the dates of publication because the earlier name is always the name that a species gets."
• Marsh secures fame (and fortune) for a time, bolstered by his uncle’s inheritance and his appointment as head of the U.S. Geological Survey.
  • Even Charles Darwin sends Marsh a thank-you note for fossils that helped support evolutionary theory.

The Feud Becomes a Spectacle—and a Scandal

• After losing his fortune and facing the government’s seizure of his fossil collection, Cope turns to the press for revenge, supplying dirt on Marsh’s scientific errors.
  • [28:24] Sally Helm quoting Cope: "When a wrong is to be righted, the press is the best and most Christian medium of doing. Replaces the old time shotgun and bludgeon and is a great improvement."
• A tabloid frenzy ensues, with both men publicly slinging accusations.
  • [29:24] Dr. Hans Sues: “People thought this was quite exciting, you know, these sort of ivory tower types battling us out over things that were really as far from the concerns of normal humanity as they could be.”
• Congressional investigations over misused public funds ensue, leading to lost funding, jobs, and professional standing.
  • [30:10] Dr. Hans Sues: "Imagine taxpayers pay for birds with teeth."

Tragic Conclusion, Lasting Legacy

• Both Marsh and Cope die nearly penniless and with ruined reputations, their feud ultimately tarnishing the field of paleontology for years.
  • [31:16] Dr. Hans Sues: "That that ended his life and he died at 57. In 1897."
  • [31:54] Dr. Hans Sues: "He was thoroughly soaked, contracted pneumonia... and died from that in 1899. And so that was the end to these two infamous characters, a tragic end."
• Despite the chaos, their scientific legacy is immense: over 1,600 extinct species described, foundational collections for major American museums, and a wildfire public fascination with dinosaurs.
  • [32:09] Dr. Hans Sues: "If they had behaved differently, they both could have had productive careers without all of this agony.... but they did a hell of a job, scientifically speaking."
  • [32:30] Sally Helm: "Between the two of them, Marsh and Cope discovered 1,600 new species of extinct animals. Their work formed the basis of American paleontology."
• Dr. Sues reflects on his own connection to their legacy, handling bones collected during the Bone Wars and seeing the cultural impact in every new generation’s fascination with dinosaurs.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [07:58] Dr. Hans Sues: "Oh, totally, yeah. Yeah. I was the only crowd that took me seriously."
• [17:54] Dr. Hans Sues: "Imagine an animal where you draw a snake through a turtle shell and then put flippers on it."
• [20:09] Dr. Hans Sues: "From there on, it just got worse and worse and worse."
• [25:51] Dr. Hans Sues: “Actually, it’s a miracle that nobody got murdered, at least that we know of.”
• [32:09] Dr. Hans Sues: "If they had behaved differently, they both could have had productive careers without all of this agony. But it was this odd competition to name things, to get things for that did them in.... but they did a hell of a job, scientifically speaking."

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:00 – The unheralded creation of Dinosaur National Monument
• 07:07 – Dr. Hans Sues shares his path from childhood dino fan to professional paleontologist
• 08:33 – Marsh’s early years and education
• 11:48 – Cope’s prodigious beginnings and personality
• 14:51 – The fallout from friendship to enmity
• 16:40 – Cope’s embarrassing public mix-up with a sea monster skeleton
• 22:27 – The rush west for dinosaur bones
• 24:20 – Escalation of sabotage, theft, and “dirty tricks”
• 25:47 – Questionable scientific practices and rumors explode
• 27:58 – The dramatic reversal of fortunes, government seizure of Cope’s fossils
• 29:24 – The public feud turns into tabloid spectacle
• 31:16 – Cope's and Marsh’s tragic, lonely ends
• 32:30 – Lasting legacies: museums, scientific names, and the enduring dino craze

Final Reflections

The episode concludes with Dr. Hans Sues contextualizing the long shadow of the Bone Wars—not just in natural history museums and scientific literature, but in the way millions of children connect with dinosaurs, sparking the imaginations of new generations.

The bitter feud of Marsh and Cope, ultimately self-defeating on a personal level, nevertheless gave rise to some of the most fruitful discoveries in paleontology and forever embedded dinosaurs in the cultural mainstream.

For further reading, the episode recommends:

• Mark Jaffe, The Gilded Dinosaur
• Earl Lanham, The Bone Hunters
• David Randall, The Monster's the Discovery of T Rex and How It Shook Our World