HISTORY This Week — “Tuskegee Top Gun” (Jan 5, 2026)

Podcast by The HISTORY® Channel | Back Pocket Studios
Host: Sally Helm
Guests: Lt. Col. James Harvey III, Lt. Col. Harry Stewart Jr., historian Daniel Hallman, author Zellie Rainey Orr

Episode Overview

This episode of HISTORY This Week uncovers the nearly forgotten story of the Tuskegee Airmen’s historic victory at the U.S. Air Force’s first-ever weapons competition—the original "Top Gun" contest—in 1949. Through deep interviews and archival recollections, host Sally Helm explores who these groundbreaking Black pilots were, the odds they faced, and their decades-long struggle to receive the recognition they deserved for changing military—and American—history.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Return to Nellis Air Force Base (01:05)

• Lt. Col. James Harvey III, one of the original winners, returns to Nellis Air Force Base after 73 years to belatedly accept recognition for the team's 1949 victory.
  • “Mission accomplished, but almost 73 years. That’s a lifetime for some people today.” — Harvey (02:56)

Early Lives and the Dream to Fly (03:06)

• James Harvey’s Ambition: Growing up in a small Pennsylvania town, Harvey excelled at everything from athletics to academics. His perfectionism laid the foundation for his career.
  • “I was the anchorman on the gymnastics team, captain of the basketball team... class president and valedictorian.” — Harvey (03:40)
• Harry Stewart’s Inspiration: Stewart grew up watching planes land in NYC—he dreamed of flying but had to start with model airplanes.
  • “I used to go over and watch the planes land and take off... fantasize myself as being the pilot.” — Stewart (04:47)
• Both faced racism for the first time upon joining the military in the 1940s. Stewart recalls being segregated while traveling for basic training.
  • “The conductor pulled a green curtain around me so my being there wouldn’t offend the sight of other people.” — Stewart (05:53)

Tuskegee Training and Proving Themselves (09:59)

• The Tuskegee Airmen were both a bold experiment and an act of political will (1939 Executive action by FDR).
• Training was disproportionately rigorous for Black cadets.
  • “Everything we did had to be perfect… No exceptions.” — Harvey (12:41)
• Only about 40% of trainees graduated. Both Harvey and Stewart earned their wings and fought in WWII.

War Experience—Combat and Camaraderie (13:53)

• Stewart describes escorting bombers over Europe, often witnessing the dangers firsthand:
  • “It’s a sight that very few people have seen… ballet in the sky.” — Stewart (14:01)
  • “Flying combat is sheer boredom with moments of actual terror.” — Stewart recalling a general’s words (14:36)
• Stewart narrowly escapes death when a German plane chasing him crashes.

The 1949 “Top Gun” Weapons Meet (15:58–23:18)

• With the Cold War heating up post-WWII, the Air Force holds its first weapons meet, seeking the best pilots across all units.
  • “If you don’t win, don’t come back.” — Harvey quoting his CO before leaving for Las Vegas (17:38)
• Harvey, Stewart, and Capt. Alva Temple form the only Black team. They face dismissiveness from organizers and other pilots.
  • “They didn’t want to hear anything he had to say. Tell him to keep quiet.” — Harvey on team’s treatment (18:04)
• Five events: aerial gunnery, dive bombing, skip bombing, and rocket firing.
• A tragic accident occurs during dive bombing, shaking the group.
  • “That I don’t like to remember… soured everything through that period.” — Stewart (21:09)
• Skip Bombing Secrets & Turning the Tides:
  • Stewart and Temple score perfect 6/6; Harvey finishes the streak (22:14–22:37)
  • “That’s when we had the perfect score. That’s when we pulled ahead.” — Harvey (22:37)
• The Tuskegee Airmen win the 1949 meet—by more than 20 points.

Erasure and Rediscovery (23:34–28:13)

• Despite their win, the Airmen are denied a proper public celebration. Their photo with the trophy is rushed in a backroom:
  • “They were anxious for us to get out of there.” — Harvey (23:59)
• The trophy and their victory fade into obscurity; even official almanacs list winners as “unknown.”
• Stewart is denied commercial airline jobs on the basis of race (25:54).
• Hollywood’s 1986 “Top Gun” movie bears no mention of the original contest or its true winners.
• In 2004, Zelie Rainey Orr uncovers the trophy in storage, pushing for overdue recognition.
• The trophy finally goes on permanent display, and the team is properly recognized at Nellis AFB decades later.
  • “It felt good. Finally. Finally. Finally.” — Harvey (28:15)

Broader Impact and Civil Rights Legacy (28:24–29:36)

• Soon after, the Air Force carries out President Truman’s desegregation order. Stewart recounts the sense of true integration for the first time.
• The Airmen’s win—against all odds and prejudice—stands as a powerful refutation of racist beliefs.
  • “And this means the best of the best. It was like a vindication.” — Stewart (29:31)
  • “We proved them wrong again… Just because a person is a different color doesn’t mean anything.” — Harvey (29:36)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On facing racism upon military enlistment:

  • “I felt the twinge of...disgust or hatred...but I had my eye on the prize. My prize was to get my wings and become a pilot.” — Stewart (06:56)

• On standards and expectations:

  • “As far as the white cadets go...as long as they could get the [aircraft] off the ground and back on...that was it. Everything we did had to be perfect.” — Harvey (12:41)

• On victory’s hollow celebrations:

  • “The wrong group won...They didn’t plan on that.” — Harvey (23:47)
  • “You can see a 1 sauce bottle, salt and pepper shakers, sheet music stands...they were anxious for us to get out.” — Harvey (23:59)

• On erasure from the historical record:

  • “The winner of the 49 weapons meet was listed as unknown.” — Harvey (25:00)
  • “I was summarily dismissed...one of them said, you know, it's because of your color." — Stewart on seeking airline jobs (25:54)

• On finally receiving recognition:

  • “It felt good. Finally. Finally. Finally.” — Harvey (28:15)
  • “It was like a vindication.” — Stewart (29:31)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:05 – Introduction at Nellis Air Force Base
• 05:43 – First-hand experiences of racism in the military
• 09:59 – Arrival and training at Tuskegee
• 12:41 – Disparate standards, rigor, and attrition rates
• 13:53 – Combat stories: “ballet in the sky” and danger
• 15:58 – The 1949 Air Force weapons meet announced
• 17:38 – Forming the team, tensions, and dismissals
• 18:39–19:01 – Competition events, tragedies, and resilience
• 22:14–22:37 – Game-changing perfect scores in skip bombing
• 23:02–23:18 – Victory, immediate reaction
• 23:47–24:48 – Awkward, rushed trophy photo and swift erasure
• 25:54 – Post-war discrimination in airline employment
• 26:59-27:50 – Trophy rediscovered and displayed
• 28:42 – Military desegregation and legacy
• 29:31–29:36 – Refuting prejudice: vindication and “proving them wrong”

Conclusion

This moving episode weaves together personal memories, untold history, and the decades-long arc of justice for the first Black Top Gun champions. The voices of Lt. Col. James Harvey III and Lt. Col. Harry Stewart Jr. bring the story to life, offering listeners an intimate window into their perseverance against both enemy fire and systemic racism.

Final thought:
"Just because a person is a different color doesn’t mean anything... We proved them wrong." — Lt. Col. James Harvey III (29:36)

Recommended Reading & More

• Soaring to Glory: A Tuskegee Airman's Firsthand Account of WWII — Harry Stewart Jr.
• Heroes in War, Heroes at Home: A Tribute to the First Air Force Top Guns — Zellie Rainey Orr
• Misconceptions about the Tuskegee Airmen — Daniel Hallman (2023)

For more info or to reach the team: historythisweek@history.com