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This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human
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Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts I I can't stop scratching my downtown.
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Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown.
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All?
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Summer's got a different tempo. Everything's a little looser, brighter. One plan turns into another. You hear something, you stay a little longer. Next thing you know, you're somewhere you didn't plan to be. It's those in between moments. That's where the ideas hit. Conversations stretch out. Little memories sneak up on you. Sometimes it's just about what's in your hand. That color. That chill. The new Tropical Butterfly Refresher from Starbucks. Guava and passion fruit flavors with mango pineapple flavored pearls. Yeah, that feels like summer before you even taste it. Funny how one small stop becomes the best part of the day. Start your summer rhythm with Starbucks. Try the new Tropical Butterfly Refresher from Starbucks.
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You are listening to Hoax, a production of I Heart Podcasts,
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folks. It's a Hoax album. No one ever seems to believe me when I swear I never was. To see this, I'm left wondering.
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Welcome to Hoax, a podcast about the
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lies we wish were true and truths that sound like lies.
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I'm the ghost of Dana Schwartz.
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And I'm the evil twin of Lizzy Logan.
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Welcome to the show, Dana.
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A
What do you know about Time travel.
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C
I'm kind of a time travel nerd in terms of, like, versions of time travel that exist in movies. Like, is it the back to the future model where you can affect the future, or is it like a multiverse version? So I do like that. The thought experiment of time travel. Um, I don't think it is real in any way that makes sense. I'm sure it's, like, real on a. On a physics level, like something about particles, but I don't. That's what I think about time travel.
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Totally. So the astrophysicist Stephen Hawking once posed a very, like, astute question, which is, if time travel is possible, where are all the time travelers?
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C
Yeah, it's very funny. Well, that's because there's different versions of time travel.
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Exactly.
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C
You know, so.
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And I don't know if you know this, but in 2009, he hosted a party for time travelers, and then. But he didn't send out the invitations until the next day. With the logic being that since no one showed up, time travel is impossible.
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C
That's very. That is funny.
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And that was like, I thought like a good little sort of gotcha experiment. Until just recently, people have been like, that experiment is now disproven because Stephen Hawking is mentioned in the Epstein files. And so people are like, well, that's why none of the time travelers showed up to his party is because time travelers don't want to hang with Stephen Hawking.
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C
I mean, fair. I wouldn't want to hang out with someone in the Epstein file. So that's. That's very funny.
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Isn't that fun?
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So someone, like, really unobjectively cool needs to do that experiment. Like Jane Goodall.
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Yeah.
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C
You know, like. Well, you know.
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Yeah. Or like Steve Irwin back in the day. Yeah.
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C
Someone just, like, be. Everyone would want to hang out with him. Steve Irwin is a great pull. Because, like, Unproblematic King wouldn't want to hang out with Steve Irwin.
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Exactly. So this is the story of potentially a different time traveler.
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C
Great.
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So in 1998, there's a radio host named Art Bell, and he hosts a talk show called coast to Coast.
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C
Am I just want to interrupt. I feel like every episode now, we've been having a little Arthur cameo.
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I know. There's so many.
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C
There's so many Arthurs.
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I listened back and I didn't even clock. In our Anastasia episode, you mentioned someone named Arthur, and then you went first Arthur of the episode. And I didn't even, like, hear it when you said it in real life,
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because there's so many. Art Bell.
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I have a little new drinking game. Yeah. Okay, so a radio host named Art Bell, first and last Arthur of this episode. He hosts coast to coast am, and he occasionally has a segment called Open Timelines, which is if you're a time traveler, you can call in and he gets a fax.
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C
Ooh.
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And it's pretty long. But, Dana, I'm gonna have you read the whole thing. I'll do it if you would be so generous.
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C
In an accent or just normal?
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No, I mean, it's a fax, so there's no voice.
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I just. If you want me to get into character.
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No, you can do whatever you want, Art.
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I had to fax when I heard other time travelers calling in from any time past the year 2,500 A.D. please let me explain. Time travel was invented in 2034. Offshoots of a certain successful fusion reactor research allowed scientists at CERN to produce the world's first contained singularity engine. The basic design involves rotating singularities inside a magnetic field. By altering the speed and direction of rotation, you can travel both forward and backward in time. Time itself can be understood in terms of connected lines. When you go back in time, you travel on your own original timeline. When you turn your singularity engine off, a new timeline is created due to the fact that you and your time machine are now there. In other words, a new universe is created. To get back to your original line, you. You must travel a split second farther back and immediately throw the engine into forward without turning it off. Some interesting outcomes of this are one, you meet yourself. I have done it often, even taken a younger version of myself along for a few rides before returning myself to the new timeline and going back to mine. Two, you can alter history in the new universe that you have created. Most of the time, the changes are subtle. Sometimes I'll notice car models that don't exist or books that come out late. The oldest one was a skyscraper that wasn't built in a near favorite store of mine in New York. Built in a near favorite store?
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I think it's near a favorite store.
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Near our favorite store. Yeah. Interestingly, when you travel in time, you must compensate for the orbit of the Earth. Since the time machine doesn't move, you have to adjust the engines so you remain on the planet when you turn it off. Unfortunately, it was also discovered that anyone going forward in time time from my 2036 hit a brick wall in the year 2564. Everyone who has ever been there has reported that nothing exists when the Machine is turned off, you find yourself surrounded by blackness and silence. Now most time travelers are trying to find out where the line went bad by going into the past, creating a new universe, and proceeding forward to see if the same thing results. In 2564, it appears the line went around the year 2000. I'm here now in this time to test a few theories of mine before going forward. Now for the future you might want to know about. 1. Y2K is a disaster. Many people die on the highways when they freeze to death trying to get to warmer weather. Oh no. 2, the government tries to keep power by instituting martial law, but all of it collapses when their efforts to bring the power back up fail. 3. A power facility in Denver is able to restart itself, but is mobbed by hundreds of thousands of people and destroyed. This convinces most that maybe we shouldn't bring the old system back. 4. A few years later, a communal government system is developed. After the Constitution takes a few twists, China retakes Taiwan, Israel wins the largest battle of its life, and Russia is covered in nuclear snow from their collapsed reactors. Art, the reason I'm here now is because I believe a nuclear weapon set off by Iraq in the Middle east war with Israel might have something to do with the damage timeline. I will test that theory and get back to you. Please pray. We have discovered the reason why there's no apparent future after 2564. And what year was this? What year is this Art Bell radio show happening?
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1998.
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1998. Okay.
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So Dana, just like, what do you think of that?
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It seems like a great sci fi premise.
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That was my response to like, what an incredible piece of short fiction.
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What a great short fiction. What a story. I would love to read. What a well thought out nerd psychological experiment.
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Yeah. And like, what a cool like, you know, arrival is based on like a short story. Like people, you know, nowadays sort of write fiction from as a blog or whatever. I'm like, this is like such a cool piece of short fiction delivered in an unusual medium.
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Can we option this fact sent to art bell in 1998?
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Potentially.
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It feels very Terminator, which where it's like, the future is gonna go wrong. We have to send someone back to figure out where and how it went wrong.
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Yes. Terminator at this point had come out.
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C
Yes.
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And had absolutely been seen by whoever wrote that fax.
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But I'm saying, like, I feel like I can smell the Terminator ideation happening. It also reminds me of Titanic, a twist in time. Titanic, something. There was a via the computer PC game where you have to go back in time to the Titanic to stop World War II.
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Yes. Which is an incredible, just like, piece of media that we don't really have time to talk about right now. But just look it up if you don't know what it is. So a few nights later, Art gets another message.
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So he read that on the air.
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He reads that on the air with a bit of commentary. And a few nights later, he gets another message that I'm going to read just a slightly condensed version of, because this one is like, hey, I'm sending you another message. And I didn't want it to get lost in the shuffle, so I'm adding a gift. And I tried to message you before, and here's like, my contact info, blah, blah, blah. So it says. Dear Mr. Bell, I sent a fax with this opening on July 29, 1998. As I said then, I am a time traveler. I have been on this worldline since April of this year, and I plan to leave soon. Typically, time travelers do not purposely affect the worldlines they visit. However, this mission is unusually long and I've grown attached to some of the people I have met there. Met here for my own reasons. I have decided to help this worldline by sharing information about the future with a few people in the hope that it will help their future. I am contacting you for the same reason. Unfortunately, there is no historical reference to your program in my worldline. I believe you can change your future by creating one. Now, some of the information presented on your program may be invaluable to upline researchers. I suggest you isolate the programs that concentrate on military technology and new physics theories. Transcribe these programs and put them someplace safe, away from the box. I recommend someplace in the Midwest. I also urge you to reconsider your paranoia to the Russians. They are not preparing for war with the average US Citizen. They are preparing for war with the US Government. They will eventually save this country and the lives of millions of Americans.
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Oh, no.
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I realize my claims are a bit difficult to accept, so I will send the following once I know you have received this. A few pages from the operations manual of my time machine, and a few colored photographs of my vehicle. If you wish to contact me, I will be happy to share with you the nature of time, the physics of time travel, and some of the events of your future. So he's basically restating what he said before promising to send along some information once he knows that, like, they've maintained contact. And he's again Sort of saying, like some of the predictions he said before, but the voice is a little bit different. It kind of sounds like someone else's writing.
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It also kind of sounds like a Russian psyop a little bit.
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It just. It's weird. Like, it's less specific. It's not.
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It's less funny. I guess it wasn't funny that quite as funny, but it's less specific. It's less, like, matter of fact, less voicey.
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Yeah, it's less voicey. And so already we have, like. Is this sent by the same person?
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Yeah. And of course, if he had read the first one on the air, there could be anyone pretending to be that guy again.
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Yeah. I mean, if you know how a fax works, it's kind of easy to dupe. A fax?
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C
Was art a political radio show?
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Oh, I don't think so.
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Well, that's why it's so interesting that it's. Anyone who would be doing, like, a time travel segment feels like they wouldn't be doing, like, serious analysis of war with Russia.
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No, it's more about, like, ooh, what's gonna happen in the future.
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Yeah.
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Yeah. So we're jumping ahead to November 2000.
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Okay.
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So this is five years before lonelygirl 15, which we talked about in a different episode. The Internet. I don't know how to calculate how big the actual Internet is, but in terms of people who are people who have access to the Internet, it's roughly 6% of the people who now have access to the Internet. So the Internet is, like, really small.
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Yeah.
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Which I'm saying because I had never ever heard of this story. But it was a very big deal on the Internet, which was possible because the Internet was really small.
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It was a very specific community of people.
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So you could be very famous on the Internet and not be very famous because it was like, the Internet was still a niche thing.
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Yeah.
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You know what I mean?
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Yes.
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It's like being locally famous because the Internet was a very small town.
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It's like someone who was vine famous. Yes. Like, you're like, oh, I was famous on Vine. And you're like, okay, that means nothing to me.
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Right.
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But to a very specific group of people, it does mean something.
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Yes. The people who are on the Internet in November 2000 are creative nerds who are interested in research and emerging technologies. And we are also not too far after Y2K, which is gonna come up.
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But Y2K, if it's November already, it already didn't happen.
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Right. But we're not too far away. From it, is what I'm saying. Sure. Still top of mind for some people. There is a website called appropriately, time travelinstitute.com.
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okay.
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Which hosts forum for time travel enthusiasts. This is back in the days of forums where it was like there was no centralized hub for the Internet. If you wanted to talk about something, you had to go find a forum about that thing.
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The good old days.
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Yep. People are posting their theories and discussing various problems with time travel. Like, you talked about, like, different ways that maybe time travel works. And they're talking about something called the grandfather paradox.
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Sure. Which is like, if you meet your grandfather and affect him, then he won't have you and so you never existed. And so how could you go back in time to affect your grandfather?
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Exactly. I mean, the example they use is like, if you kill him.
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Oh, kill him.
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Yeah.
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I was being nice. And affect him being like, don't marry that lady.
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Yeah. Like, if you prevent your own birth, then you can't go back in time to prevent your own birth. And one user comments that like, a way around this paradox is exactly what you said, which is the multiple worlds idea, which is that just if you go back in time and kill your grandfather, then you continue living in a world where you are not born as a baby, but you exist as an adult. But in the old timeline that you left, your grandfather continues to live, but you have now like exited.
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Multiple timelines. Yeah.
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There's just now two timelines and a user who goes by timetravel zero. So time travel zero comments. And is like, yep, that's exactly right. I'm from 2036 and that's how time travel works. And time travel zero is going to comment here and on the Art Bell forums just under 600 times over the next few months. And he's going to reveal his name to be John Titor. T I T O R. Some people pronounce it Titter. Some people pronounce it Teeter.
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C
Tidor seems right.
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I think Titor makes the most sense. Tidor is a real American last name. But it's also speculated that, like, this is just his online username. It also could be short for Time Traveler or Terminator.
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C
Again, his username is Time Travel Zero. He's really not trying to be subtle about this.
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Well, no, he says, I'm a time traveler from 2036. This is not.
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C
Yeah.
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And he doesn't say, I faxed Art Bell. But people who remember those faxes are like, oh, these details match up. This is the same person. It's speculated now that a few different people might have been posting using the same like login information. But I'm going to present the information that he reveals in the order that makes sense to me. Yeah, not in the order that he revealed it.
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C
Okay.
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Because again, he posted like over 500 times and he mostly just answered questions about time travel, so we don't really have time to get into everything he posted. But I'm gonna just re. I'm gonna just tell his story in the order that makes sense to me. Great
- [19:10]
B
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- [21:44]
A
So John says that he was born in 1998. So, I mean, he was like the Persona was born in 1998. Yeah, but so if he was literally born in 1998, then he is both 2 and 38.
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C
Sure. Because he came back from the 2000 and 30s.
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A
He came back from 2000 and 36. He says that the beginnings of time travel are going to be discovered at cern, the big Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland, in about a year.
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C
Seems like a likely place.
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A
It does seem like the likeliest place. His explanation of everything is very grounded.
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C
Well, that's what I like about it. You know what it is? It's very like Andy Weir, the Martian.
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A
It's exact.
- [22:25]
C
I mean, is this Andy Weir on the phone?
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A
If Andy Weir wasn't inspired by this guy, I will eat my hat.
- [22:31]
C
Yeah. Because it's like, very grounded, very plausible, 100%.
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A
He's just looking at the state of science today and going like, all right, where might we be by 2036?
- [22:41]
C
Yeah.
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A
And then he says that the first time machine will be built in 2034 by GE.
- [22:48]
C
I'll say.
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A
Which makes sense. It's like, yeah, who builds big machines? George? And he says that he works essentially for, like, the time travel Navy seals. Like, he's like, I'm in the military and we do, like, time travel special ops.
- [23:01]
C
Great. That would exist.
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A
He says that his time machine weighs 500 pounds and it is installed in a Chevy. So very back to the future. Yeah, but I think it's more like that it's stored in a Chevy to make it easy to transport. I don't think that, like, turning on the car and driving it is part of how you work it.
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C
Sure.
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A
He explains how you use it, and he uses the word like, microsingularities a lot. It goes through Einstein, Rosen bridges, which is a very fancy way of saying wormhole.
- [23:33]
C
It's this thing where I'm like, I don't know what he means by micro singularity, but it does sound scientific.
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A
All of his explanations sound very scientific. He can't really explain, like, how you actually build a time machine. And his explanation for why he can't explain is he's like, I'm basically an airline pilot. And if you asked an airline pilot, he could basically tell you how the airplane works. But that's different from being, like, an airplane engineer.
- [24:03]
C
I get it. I use a refrigerator every day. I couldn't build a refrigerator.
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A
Right. But. And he's like, you can drive a car without knowing how to build a car.
- [24:13]
C
Yeah.
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A
Where he's like, I operate this time machine. I basically know how it works. No, I can't explain every single detail to you, but he's basically on these forums doing, like, an ama.
- [24:24]
C
Yeah, great.
- [24:27]
A
Everybody just loves his explanation of the universe, of how time travel works, and how it also sort of solves other mysteries. Because people are like, oh, UFOs are visitors from other worldlines where humans are more technologically advanced and look different.
- [24:44]
C
I mean, that's a great explanation. I really like this sci fi premise.
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A
Yeah. And they're like, oh, and like, Bigfoot or mermaids are like, that's places where the veil between different world lines is thin and we're just, like, glimpsing other worlds.
- [24:59]
C
Yeah, why not?
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A
It's really hard for me to tell if anyone, like, quote unquote believes this. I think that it's mostly just, like, people having fun on the Internet, but knowing the Internet.
- [25:14]
C
There are some people who believe it.
- [25:16]
A
Yeah, but, like, no one's going out and, like, looking for him or, like, trying to build their time machine.
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C
No one's verifying this. It's almost like, like you said with, like, the very small Internet group, it becomes. It's like an inside joke among this small group of techie people.
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A
Yeah. He has pictures, which they look like nothing. Like, it looks like. It looks like junk from your garage. It looks like the proton packs in Ghostbusters where it's just like a metal box with, like, a tube coming out of it. Where I'm like, I'm sure there is an engine in there, but it just looks like nothing. He's happy to answer questions, but he's not trying to convince anyone to believe him.
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C
Great.
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A
He even says that in 2036, there are people who don't believe in time travel. And one of my favorite things is that he has a very dry humor and he's kind of snippy. And if someone tries to stump him on trivia, he's like, oh, so you're from the future? So who wins the baseball game next month? He's like, do you remember shit that happened 30 years ago? And at one point he writes a pretty sick burn, which is, perhaps I should let you all in on a little secret. No one likes you in the future. This time period is looked at as being full of lazy, self centered, civically ignorant sheep.
- [26:34]
C
That's.
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A
Perhaps you should be less concerned about me and more concerned about that.
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C
That's very funny. Oh my God. Imagine a time traveler from like a really like actualized human civilization coming back to our timeline. Is that the premise?
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A
I mean, that's kind of what Phil of the future was.
- [26:52]
C
That's true.
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A
When they came back and they're like, why do you guys have wars? That's so weird.
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C
I like that show.
- [26:58]
A
It was fun. He says that His Worldline is 2.5% different from ours and that the longer he stays in ours, the more different it's going to get. So it should have roughly the same 30 year history between where he's from and what we're experiencing now. To me, it more makes sense to think of it not as like a 2.5% difference, but almost like as a 2.5 degree angle where it's like, again, this is just what makes sense to me, that in 2000 things will be exactly the same, but in 2001 they'll be a little farther apart. In 2002 they'll be a little more farther apart. In 2003, just because wouldn't it all be ripple effects?
- [27:44]
C
You know what I mean? So it gets further. It's a compounding chain. Yeah.
- [27:47]
A
Just because if one person isn't born, that'll change things a little bit. But then when their kids aren't born, that would change things more. And then when their kids aren't born, that would change things more.
- [27:59]
C
What I also find kind of interesting and why this time travel explanation is very plausible because it's like even if he can't, let's say he does remember who won the baseball game in his timeline. He's like, oh yeah, in 2000 this person won. But he's like, but me being in this timeline has affected reality Some somehow. Butterfly effect, I don't know. Some somehow the game was different.
- [28:21]
A
Yeah. And again, and it's only 36 years. So like there are plenty of people who are still alive, like in both worldlines and in both time periods.
- [28:31]
C
Yeah.
- [28:31]
A
So it's not conceivably he should be able to, like, check on a lot of this stuff, you know, he says, and he does give plenty of information about not what's gonna happen, but, like, what happened in his Worldline and therefore what is likely to happen in ours. Like, what is, you know, I guess 97.5% going to happen. So he says that from around 2004 to around 2008, America will have a massive civil war where there are, like, Waco, like, events every month, and we are going to break up into five countries. And then in 2015, there will be a third world war with Russia that includes nuclear bombs, and 3 million people will die. And after that, humanity kind of goes back to a more primitive agrarian society. That kind of sounds like what the conservative homesteader movement wants. Like, everybody's growing their own food. There's not a lot of medicine. People live close to their families and other religions.
- [29:32]
C
I read yesteryear. This is a bad situation.
- [29:35]
A
I mean, the way he makes it sound like people really are a lot happier. You know, I personally don't want to learn to use a gun, but, like, I would live with my family on a farm, you know, what I will
- [29:47]
C
say is having a baby, if my family was close, that would be a big help.
- [29:52]
A
You know, I don't hate that.
- [29:53]
C
Yeah. But I do like going to the grocery store.
- [29:55]
A
I do like going to the grocery store. Cost of food could come down. I don't know.
- [29:59]
C
I get.
- [30:00]
A
I get the vision.
- [30:01]
C
You get the vision?
- [30:01]
A
I get the vision.
- [30:02]
C
I like air conditioning too much.
- [30:04]
A
I think maybe they have. They have the Internet in the future, so I think.
- [30:07]
C
Oh, so even though it's like an agrarian. More agrarian community, they still have.
- [30:11]
A
I would have to check the. I just think they're not like, it's less like sprawling cities and more like small communities.
- [30:18]
C
You know what? That's great. I don't mind that as long as I can. You know, I would prefer medicine and air conditioning, ideally, if I could send a request to the future.
- [30:29]
A
Well, you've got 10 more years.
- [30:30]
C
I'll work on it.
- [30:31]
A
He also mentions that the human form of mad cow disease is going to be a big problem, which it could be because food safety is really getting underfunded and that because of the civil war, we're going to cancel the Olympics. Okay, I'm going to jump ahead for a sec. Some of his. So again, he has over 500 posts. So he makes a lot of predictions. Some are very specific, some are very vague. Some of his predictions in the fullness of time have come true. He does make a reference to, like, there not being nukes in Iraq and how that was a rumor to stir
- [31:08]
C
up a war, which I want to be clear, as someone who was alive back then, that people were talking about that not being true.
- [31:16]
A
Right. But not necessarily in 2000. This is pre 9 11.
- [31:19]
C
Oh, all right. All right, Interesting.
- [31:22]
A
He mentions sort of like a Lincoln, like, president that people who are looking for evidence are like, well, Obama was from Illinois. Yeah. Like, really into Lincoln. But the vast majority of his predictions did not come true in any significant way. Yeah. And as you pointed out, his sort of, like, get out of logic free card is that by simply visiting our timeline, he made it diverge from his timeline.
- [31:53]
C
Yeah.
- [31:53]
A
But the hoax only lasts a few months, and it is a hoax, and it ends in March 2001. He didn't say shit about 9 11. Like, there are vague things that people then point to and they're like, yeah, that was him warning us about 9 11. No, he does not drop. He needed to drop, like, a hint. He needed to say, like, mariah Carey, your album is not gonna do well because of New York.
- [32:18]
C
Like, it doesn't even sound like he was being, like, myster. He was saying explicit things.
- [32:23]
A
He was saying explicit things. And there was one thing he needed to warn people about, and he did it.
- [32:27]
C
But maybe 911 didn't happen in his timeline, I guess. But, like, yeah, Feels like he should have warned us about that.
- [32:33]
A
Feels like he really should have warned us about that. Also. I just think it's interesting that he says the third world war starts in 2015, because 2015 is also the year that they go to in Back to the Future 2.
- [32:42]
C
Interesting.
- [32:43]
A
Yeah, there's no war in Back to the future 2. It's just people like to use that year as a, like, round number.
- [32:50]
C
Future year. There are 3D sharks, though.
- [32:53]
A
So many. Okay, back to the story. So online again, people don't have 911 as a reference point.
- [33:03]
C
Yeah.
- [33:04]
A
So they're like, hey, if you're a time traveler, why aren't you out there stopping Pearl Harbor?
- [33:08]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [33:12]
A
And he's like, well, first of all, that wouldn't stop Pearl Harbor. It would create another universe where Pearl harbor didn't happen. But in the universe that I came from, Pearl harbor still would have happened.
- [33:23]
C
Yeah.
- [33:24]
A
And second of all, you don't even know about all the things that I did stop because they didn't happen. So think about that. But actually, I didn't come to the past to do Any of that. I came to the past to pick up a computer.
- [33:38]
C
One specific computer or just a computer?
- [33:41]
A
A specific computer. He came to the past to go to Rochester, Minnesota in 1975 to get an IBM 5100, which was one of the first, quote unquote portable computers. And it weighs 55 pounds, so it's not the most portable, but like it doesn't take up a whole room. Like you could put it in one in a car. You could. Yeah, you could in a car. Or like you could have it at home and then you could like move it to your office for some time. And he actually already did it. So he explained that he completed that mission and then he's just stopping by 2000 to hang out with his family, which I think is adorable. I love that. But also a different explanation than the one he gave to Art Bell, which is that he's hanging out to try to figure out where humanity went wrong.
- [34:32]
C
But he did say that he had grown fond of loved ones of people in this timeline.
- [34:37]
A
I know his explanation keeps changing, but.
- [34:39]
C
But his family could be the people he's grown fond of.
- [34:42]
A
I'm just saying.
- [34:43]
C
Yeah, I just. If you're hanging out with your family, you would want to know where things went wrong because indeed because you want to save them.
- [34:50]
A
So he says that he completed his mission in 1975 and now he's just hanging out with his family in 2000. And I guess his two year old self, he's like picking up photos and just chilling with his parents. And there's like a good time travel window that's going to open up in a few months. Guess like the, you know, wormholes have to be good solar flares. Yeah. And so he's just killing time answering questions on the Internet until then.
- [35:17]
C
You feel like that would be against the rules, but I don't know. I didn't make the time travel steal rules.
- [35:22]
A
I have no idea. So to explain why he needs this computer, I do think it would be helpful to talk about Y2K. Okay, so Y2K was not a hoax.
- [35:35]
C
Yes, I've heard about it. I was a child at the time, so I didn't know anything happening. But I've heard this and it's again,
- [35:42]
A
it is similarly like you don't even know about the things that didn't happen because they didn't happen and it's a hoax that people think it was a hoax. And this is a new segment on our show called Lizzie does a very bad job explaining computer programming.
- [35:58]
C
I can't Wait, I know nothing about computer programming, so it's going to sound like a good explanation to me.
- [36:02]
A
No, it's not. Okay. Early computers. Like not early as in like designed by Steve Jobs. I mean, like early, early, early early. Like a little bit after Alan Turing early. Yeah.
- [36:14]
C
Big, big room sized computers. Maybe half a, I don't know, half a room size.
- [36:19]
A
Don't come at me commenters. They saved. They saved time. No.
- [36:25]
C
Liz is so nervous to talk about computers.
- [36:28]
A
They saved memory by only using the last two digits of the year.
- [36:33]
C
Yeah.
- [36:33]
A
Because this was a considerable amount of their memory.
- [36:37]
C
Yeah. Their new computers.
- [36:39]
A
So the 19 in like 1954 or whatever was implied or not accounted for. So the year 2000 would be indistinguishable from the year 1900. And people noticed this or people realized that this would be a problem as early as the 80s.
- [36:56]
C
Sure.
- [36:56]
A
Because on Wall street there are bonds that pay out over 50 years. So if you buy such a Bond in the 80s and then you go to compute how much money someone's going to have in 50 years, the computer would be like, oh, that will pay you in 1930 after existing for minus 50 years.
- [37:18]
C
Yeah, it like wouldn't work. That's very funny.
- [37:20]
A
It would just go all the way. Like the, the wheel would go all the way around and it would never hit the year 2000. It would just go right back to 1930.
- [37:28]
C
Negative money.
- [37:29]
A
Negative money. Or like time over. Yeah, money over. Negative time.
- [37:34]
C
Yeah.
- [37:35]
A
So as we get into the 90s, more and more systems are upgrading to avoid what's called the Y2K bug, which is really just a series of potential issues that are being grouped under the same umbrella of being called the Y2K bug. It's not like a bug computer virus that you can download. It's a bug. Meaning just like a flaw in the system.
- [37:54]
C
Yeah.
- [37:55]
A
But even though this has been known about since the 80s, they're kind of dragging their feet because no one's paying them to fix it. Like, there's no profit in fixing it.
- [38:06]
C
And there's no. It does. It's not like there's an overarching like big world group being like, everyone fix this now. Which is also the global warming problem.
- [38:13]
A
The only person who finally does it is Clinton.
- [38:16]
C
Clinton makes everyone do it.
- [38:17]
A
Well, he kind of spearheads. He's like, we should probably do this.
- [38:20]
C
Yeah. Correct.
- [38:21]
A
Yeah.
- [38:21]
C
Gotta have a leader.
- [38:23]
A
And then people finally notice. And so some people do stock up on toilet paper and like that's what gets the news talking about it. And that's what creates sort of the hysteria that ends up not mattering. Which is why people now laugh at the quote unquote. Like, can you believe people thought the world was gonna end?
- [38:41]
C
Yeah, people like I guess thought like, oh, the planes will fall out of the sky because all the systems will go black.
- [38:48]
A
Right? But it's like Y2K is actually a really good example of hard working people behind the scenes stopping the planes from falling out of the sky and stopping the nukes from going off. Like, we laugh at the people who stocked up on toilet paper, but we should be applauding the hard working people who did the very unglamorous work of going in and adding little twos and zeros to all of the lines of code.
- [39:09]
C
Yes, thank you for your foresight and your effort and preventing disaster. And it's like time travel in which we don't get the timeline where things could have gone wrong because people work to make it better.
- [39:21]
A
Exactly. And you'd think this would be the end of this segment, but it's actually not. Sorry.
- [39:30]
B
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- [42:04]
A
now. Okay, but you're probably thinking like why is displaying the correct date important? You know, if my computer that I'm looking at right now says the wrong date, like my oven and my microwave always say the wrong time, it doesn't matter. They still work as an oven and a microwave.
- [42:19]
C
Yes.
- [42:20]
A
Number one, a lot of other programs run based on the time and the year. Number two, if one part of your computer collapses, a lot of other parts of your computer can collapse. Number three, a lot of times computer programs are built on top of each other. So if the time and the date were like one of the first parts that were built, it could be what's called legacy code, which is like load bearing fourth. I don't know. Okay, I barely understood halt and catch fire, but some stuff actually did crash, like cash registers and stuff and credit cards didn't work. And I don't know, but I tried to look this up and it said that Y2K was almost a really big deal. So just trust me is really important.
- [43:06]
C
What happened was the computers. If they said 1900, they're like, oh, computers didn't exist in 1900.
- [43:11]
A
They doubt it existed.
- [43:12]
C
They just shut down.
- [43:14]
A
Okay, so keeping all that in mind.
- [43:16]
C
Yes.
- [43:19]
A
John Titor was sent back to 1975 to get a specific computer to avert something that is real. That is called the 2038 problem. Oh, the 2038 problem, which is another Y2K that's gonna happen in 2038.
- [43:34]
C
Why why? What is weird about 2038? Is it some sort of root? Yeah. Okay. I actually understand it now. It's a.
- [43:41]
A
That's why it was important to talk about Y2K.
- [43:43]
C
Okay. I understand.
- [43:43]
A
That is why people on the Internet in November 2000 would have been vaguely familiar with why Y2K was important and what John Titor would have been talking about when he said, I had to go back to 1975 to get an IBM 5100 because it's my mission to avert the 2038 problem.
- [44:02]
C
And that's because something about memory, the UNIX system.
- [44:07]
A
Unix is a 32 bit system. We don't make 32 bit systems anymore. We run everything on a 64 bit system. But it is a foundational type of computer that a lot of our computers in the world, not like personal computers, but like, you know, big computers that run like, you know, the lights, that big traffic systems, big computing systems are built on top of these old Unix. UNIX systems. They were programmed in the 70s. They don't count the dates, they just count how many seconds it's been since like 1970. And they are going to run out of space in January 2038. And I don't know what's going to happen. And I think it's possible that nobody knows what's going to happen. They might crash.
- [44:55]
C
Okay, hope so. I guess everyone's just sort of assuming either the world will end or we'll have better, better systems in place by then and no one's doing anything.
- [45:05]
A
We still have 12 years. So we just need to upgrade them.
- [45:09]
C
Okay.
- [45:09]
A
We just need to upgrade them in the next 12 years.
- [45:12]
C
Okay.
- [45:12]
A
Or run some code, add a little hard disk or whatever. If we upgrade to 64 bit systems, then we have like a billion years or whatever. Like this is not a problem we're ever going to have again. But the 2038 problem, they called it the epoch ellipse because it's like an epoch, a UNIX epoch, but it is like a real thing. And it's also like using an old piece of equipment to sort of like. Like a good piece of equipment is a good piece of equipment. Like, I remember when. I know this is just like going all kinds of crazy tangents and we're just talking about tech and not hoaxes. But I think it's interesting.
- [45:48]
C
I find it fascinating. I don't know about any of this.
- [45:51]
A
Remember when the Oceangate thing happened and there were those pictures about how they were using like a. A cable? No, the. An Xbox controller? Oh, yeah. And then but then all these engineers were like, what, Xbox makes a good controller? Yeah, it's like a good piece of equipment is a good piece of equipment. So basically, John Titor is like, listen, IBM made the best computer to run a Unix system on. So my mission was to go back to 1975 to get this computer to go debug the computer in 2036.
- [46:31]
C
It's like just plausible enough to work.
- [46:33]
A
Yeah. It's like, why would you think that our tech, just because it's from the future would be better? A good piece of equipment is a good piece of equipment.
- [46:39]
C
But it's like in this situation, you've invented a time machine, but you can't invent something to debug the 2038 problem. But maybe this is their solution.
- [46:49]
A
Right, but people are pointing that out on the forums. They're like, dude, going back to 1975, Minnesota seems like a lot of work. Surely you could just find like a used computer someplace and like refurbish it.
- [47:02]
C
Yeah.
- [47:03]
A
And he's like, bruh, I'm in the military. If they say go back in time, I go back in time.
- [47:10]
C
Yeah.
- [47:10]
A
And one guy is like, here, I have a question. Again, like with the snarkiness, there's some snarky guy online who's like, I have a question. Why don't you refurbish an old model? And do people in the future still wipe their buttholes with toilet paper? And he's like, well, I need to go back in time because I need some specific upgrades to this computer. And so I need to be with one of the original programmers of it who, you know, will be in 1975. And yeah, we still wipe our buttholes with toilet paper in the future. And in the future there's still people who are weirdly obsessed with buttholes. Guy on the Internet.
- [47:45]
C
Guy on the Internet trying to be funny. Yeah.
- [47:48]
A
He's like, what I need is a brand new IBM 5100. And I need one of the original IBM 5100 programmers, one of whom is my grandfather.
- [47:56]
C
Oh, no big deal.
- [47:57]
A
Because I need him to help me trick it out.
- [47:59]
C
This is a real like coming of age novel. You really should have written this.
- [48:02]
A
Add some plot. And what you losers on the Internet don't know, but I do, is that there's something special about the IBM 5100. The guys who programmed the software did it in such a way that it's almost like a universal translator. It can talk to all the other IBM systems of that era. Like it's compatible with all the other IBM systems of that era. So once I get it back to my time, I'm going to be able to plug it into all the computers that I need to plug it into. I won't have to go around finding all these other different compatible parts, all those dongles. Yeah, I'm not going to have to let. Yeah, exactly. I'm not going to need adapters. And IBM didn't tell anybody about this because they thought that maybe like their competition would use it for, I don't know, some purpose or whatever. Like only 20 people ever knew that this computer could do that. And it's the only computer they ever made that could do that. But it has this like secret function. So that's why I have to go all the way back to 1975 to make sure that it's this exact model.
- [49:13]
C
Great. I believe it, Dana.
- [49:15]
A
It's true.
- [49:16]
C
What?
- [49:17]
A
It's true.
- [49:18]
C
What? This guy's grandfather, I bet, was a program around this.
- [49:22]
A
Researchers who have looked into the John Titor hoax tracked down some of the guys who worked at IBM and they were like, yeah, I don't know how he knew that, but yeah,
- [49:33]
C
it's true.
- [49:34]
A
They were like, I don't know whoever was posting on those forums, I don't know if they knew jack shit about time travel, but they knew a lot about IBM.
- [49:42]
C
This guy's grandfather was an IBM programmer
- [49:44]
A
or he was an IBM programmer.
- [49:46]
C
Yeah. I have no evidence to that, but I'm like, I love, I love this.
- [49:50]
A
Yes. Yeah. He doesn't talk the way a computer programmer talks. He doesn't talk some the way someone from the future would talk. But he knew that piece of information.
- [50:00]
C
My theory is that his grandfather was an original IBM programmer and that. I'm just gonna go with that.
- [50:05]
A
Yep.
- [50:06]
C
I guess not Grandfather, right?
- [50:07]
A
It's only 25 years. He's not actually from 2036. Yeah, dad, he's in seer 2000. Yeah, in March 2001. He's like, cool, I gotta go back to my time. My final piece of advice is keep a can of gasoline in your car in case you run out of gas on the side of the road and
- [50:24]
C
be well, that's actually good advice.
- [50:26]
A
And he logs off. And that's basically the end of the hoax. It becomes like an Internet urban legend.
- [50:36]
C
I've never heard of this. That's the crazy. I mean, it's not crazy because I'm not like into forums, but this is like so delightful. It makes me really happy.
- [50:45]
A
There is kind of more, but like the Way that, you know, the more you dig into lonelygirl15, the more delightful it gets. The more you dig into this kind of, the less delightful it gets. Like, there are people who have claimed over the years to be John Titor, but then when you look into them, they all have like, criminal records for really gross things.
- [51:08]
C
Wait, have we ever actually figured out who John Titor was?
- [51:11]
A
No. And we can't disprove that he was a time traveler. So this has not been officially debunked. Most people after 2004 really stopped believing because, like, say what you will about the state of America, we are not five different countries.
- [51:30]
C
No, we did not knock wood yet deal with a civil war.
- [51:34]
A
No. It's unclear to me how many people really, like, believed, believed. There are a few likely suspects for people who have contributed to John Titor or have been John Titor.
- [51:48]
C
Yeah. Especially given that it was the Internet and there's fax machines. I'm like, that seems like the first person who sent the fax wouldn't have been the same person writing all these things. Or the second, you know, message I'm
- [52:02]
A
gonna throw out, like my take, which is I Wanna just wait 10 years and see if he comes forward in 2036.
- [52:12]
C
Ah, yeah.
- [52:13]
A
Like, it's not that long.
- [52:14]
C
Should we set a reminder? Yeah. If our calendars, if our phone calendars still work.
- [52:19]
A
Yeah. So that's like kind of my takeaway. But so now I wanna just talk about it as like an amazing piece of fiction, performance art with the Internet as its medium and Nirvana, the Band, the show, the Movie, because it's all about going back in time to get a piece of technology to make your time travel machine work. And it's so good.
- [52:43]
C
Lizzie told me to watch this movie called Nirvana the Band, the show, the Movie. I was not familiar at all with Nirvana the Band the show, like the Canadian comedy show. But I watched this movie with no explanation.
- [52:56]
A
No, like, you don't need to know that explanation.
- [52:57]
C
No expectations. And I was genuinely delightful and amazing. I enjoyed it a lot. Yeah. So you should also watch it and don't look anything up about it. Just go in blind, I guess. Know that time travel happens. But you're like, how did they. There's some scenes where I'm like, how did they make this?
- [53:14]
A
Yeah.
- [53:14]
C
And it really is amazing that they did.
- [53:16]
A
It really is.
- [53:17]
C
So the real time travel is people using art to creating art.
- [53:21]
A
I mean, it's just like I feel like the two things are so linked because it's like using a simple medium to do things that people just hadn't thought of before. Of like, oh yeah, you could just film things out of order in a really interesting way. Or like, oh, you could just use a forum to like basically write a novel. Like a collaborative novel almost.
- [53:49]
C
That's how I feel. I'm like the fact that someone first sent a fax in to a radio show and just assuming this is the same person or the same group project, that this group project sent this fax into the radio show and then was like answering hundreds of questions on forums. I'm like, what a brilliant, comprehensive, cohesive piece of fiction that I find delightful that is now free and secret and wonderful.
- [54:16]
A
And I think it's so fun because it's like, I think we've all had the experience of reading a book set in an alternate world and wishing we could ask the characters a question. And sometimes you can then ask the author a question of how does this work? And Tolkien wrote all of those things.
- [54:37]
C
J.K. rowling was there, a Jewish student in Hogwarts.
- [54:40]
A
But it's like, what if someone did a whole book? Basically that was just the questions. You know what I mean? Just being like, oh, I have an idea of how time travel might work. Instead of trying to come up with like a plot and characters and this and that. Not that those things are bad. I'm saying it very dismissively but like, what if it was like, what if I just pop on the Internet and I just let people decide what they want to know and like just take questions and let that be the plot and just see where that takes us and like just crowdsourcing a whole novel's worth of information and like letting that like that's such a cool project.
- [55:20]
C
And you know what else I love about it is it's not like this guy or girl, whoever they were, wrote their sci fi novel or wrote their screenplay and was like, I need to find James Cameron and give him my screenplay and I need to be famous and make my like this stayed anonymous. They weren't looking for glory, they just were doing it for the love of the game.
- [55:37]
A
Yeah, someone did eventually like trademark it and then try to sell merch. But like it kind of was a flop. People have made. There's like a documentary, like a quote unquote documentary that is very. You can't watch it anywhere but like then, you know, people have made YouTube videos. It's inspired a lot of then other art and like. Yeah, I just think like the spirit of it is very cool and other people have been inspired by the Spirit of it. And some have made money, but most have not. And like, I don't know, like John Titor's cool. People who are into him are cool.
- [56:14]
C
John Titor, cool.
- [56:16]
A
And if you're into him, I would also recommend checking out the word work of John Boice. B O I S. He makes these, he's made these like incredible websites for I think like ESPN or Sports Illustrated or something. He made this one called like Football in the Future.
- [56:32]
C
I love this.
- [56:33]
A
Do you remember Football in the Future?
- [56:34]
C
I love Football in the Future.
- [56:35]
A
Doesn't it have a John Titor esque quality to it?
- [56:38]
C
Yes, there's like an anarchy. Yeah. I love people being creative for. For the love of the game.
- [56:45]
A
Yeah.
- [56:46]
C
John Titor cool.
- [56:47]
A
John Titor cool.
- [56:48]
C
I hope we get to meet him. Hey, John Titor.
- [56:49]
A
Ten years from now, ten years from
- [56:51]
C
now, please seek out either Dana Schwartz or Lizzie Logan, ideally both, and say, hi Dana.
- [56:57]
A
What would you do with a time machine? But not like correct mistakes in your life, but like what period of time would you go to and who would you talk to and walk around like if you were in the, you know, the meme that's like boys with a time machine. I'm gonna punch my dad. Girls with a time machine. I'm giving Zoloft to Sylvia Platt.
- [57:15]
C
I mean this is the really boring answer is I'm working on a novel right now that's set in the Tudor period. And so I'm like deep in research and if I could just go back and just walk around for like 10 minutes, it would really just be like, oh, none of my research would be necessary. This would just be great. And the most immersive book I think I would love. Tudor era. I mean this is a very girl answer. Tudor era. Versailles, Napoleon. I'm a Napoleon girly. Yeah. What about you, Lizzie Logan?
- [57:43]
A
Yeah, I think I'd like, wanna.
- [57:46]
C
I wouldn't wanna change anything. Cause it would. I'm a rule follower and it would scare me.
- [57:49]
A
Yeah, you're not supposed to change things.
- [57:50]
C
Yes.
- [57:50]
A
That's like every. You're not supposed to change.
- [57:52]
C
No, I would just be an anthropologist. I would just wanna. Wanna be like, what did we get right and what did we get wrong about what it was actually?
- [57:58]
A
Like I'm gonna give just like such a boring answer. Like I need to know who killed Kennedy.
- [58:04]
C
Yeah, but how? Here's my question. If you had a time machine, how would you figure out who killed Kennedy?
- [58:10]
A
I mean, I'd hide up in the book depository and I'd spy On Lee Harvey Oswald, see what he was up to. I guess that is a good. Or maybe I'd be on the grassy note. That's.
- [58:21]
C
See, it's like, it's actually hard to solve some of these mysteries, Even with historical hindsight, I guess. Lee. Cause Lee Harvey Oswald, you know, he fired a shot, was up there. I guess you could go to the grassy knoll.
- [58:34]
A
Yeah, I guess I'd be hanging out on the grassy knoll. I'd hang out on the grassy knoll.
- [58:38]
C
That's not a bad answer.
- [58:40]
A
John Titor, meet me on the grassy knoll. John Titor, come find me. Take me to the grassy knoll in your time machine. I have questions. Hello, hoax listeners, It's Lizzie doing time travel from a different point in time when I'm recording without Dana, because I felt like I cut off the story at a weird point and didn't give the full perspective. So I'm just popping in with a little mini note. So, okay, if you're interested, you can go online and look up who is John Titor. And there are two or three really good suspects with a lot of evidence backing them up. But none of those people have come forward and said, yes, it was me. And then there are a couple of people who have come forward and said, yes, it was me, but none of those people have evidence. So that's why I didn't really go into any of the suspects because I just don't think that they're that interesting. And then there are also some, like I said, some weird digressions you can go down. Like people who have tried to copyright his various, like, plans for how a time machine works. But those people who are all really creepy and this is like basically a PG rated episode, but those people went to jail for not PG rated crimes. So I just didn't want to include them. But yes, there's a little bit more to the hoax, But I. I decided to pause the story there just for the sake of keeping it like a fun episode. But if you're so inclined, you can keep doing research where John Titor would want you to do research, which is the Internet. I also wanted to say that for me personally, the part that really stuck in my head about the mystery is why does just nothing exist after a certain point? That's what I want the novel to be about. That's the Twilight zone episode that I would watch and freak out about. And various people who have looked into this story have come up with different theories about why he picked the year 2564 and what that number could mean, but my personal theory is that it's from the Chicago song 25 or 6 to 4. I think that that's why he picked it. There's also a. There's also a rabbit hole you can go down about this woman, Pamela, who sort of had like an online love affair with John Titor and apparently has a secret song that she can use to identify John Titor if he reveals himself. But again, it felt a little creepy because I think maybe this woman was catfished. I think she believes in this person, and I don't think that this person is a real time traveler. But anyway, I just wanted to pop in and say that because we here at Hoax try to give you the full fake story of the real deal of people who make things up. Okay, back to the episode. Bye.
- [61:50]
C
If you're a fan of this podcast, please follow us on Instagram. Hoax the Podcast the Podcast. We're not sure where the future future of this podcast will be, but we will continue to make it as long as you continue to want it. So follow the Instagram account to get all that information. Email us@hoaxpodcastmail.com Follow me on Instagram. TikTok Dana Schwartz with 3Zs I don't know exactly when this episode is coming out, but please buy the book the Arcane Arts, which may already be out. If you like magical romantic love stories, it's good.
- [62:27]
A
And it's not for kids.
- [62:29]
C
It's not for kids. It's sexy magic. No time travel, but sexy magic. Anything you want to plug.
- [62:33]
A
Lizzie, I need a job. If anybody has a job.
- [62:36]
C
Yeah, hire Lizzie.
- [62:39]
A
A little bit underemployed right now.
- [62:40]
C
Well, thank you.
- [62:41]
A
Thank you very much for listening. Please Hoax responsibly.
- [62:44]
C
Bye.
- [62:54]
A
Hoax is a production of I Heart Podcasts. Our hosts are Dana Schwartz and Lizzie Logan. Our executive producers are Matt Frederick and Trevor Young, with super supervising producer Reema El Kayali and producers Noams Griffin and Jesse Funk. Our theme music was composed by Lane Montgomery. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening. If you're feeling off fatigue, mood changes, skin shifts, yet your labs say everything's normal. You're not alone. Meet Oestra from Inner Balance, the first all in one prescription strength bioidentical hormone cream that's natural and effective and only takes one drop, 10 seconds a day. Oester replaces five to six products women typically use to treat symptoms and is third party tested to ensure the highest quality. Visit innerbalance.com today to start feeling like yourself again. That's innerbalance.com Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for $dollars a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have
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