HODINKEE Podcast: "Auction Scandals, New Releases, And The Black Bay 58 Revisited"

Date: October 12, 2020
Host: Stephen Pulvirent
Guests: Jack Forester, Danny Milton, James Stacey, Cole Pennington

Episode Overview

This episode delivers a classic roundtable among Hodinkee editors, exploring three core themes:

• The underbelly and allure of watch auctions, including cautionary tales and community vigilance.
• A lightning-round deep dive into notable recent watch releases across price points and brands.
• An in-depth revisit of the Tudor Black Bay 58, digging into why this neo-vintage diver has struck such a chord, with added discussion of the new Navy Blue variant.

The tone is candid, witty, and enthusiastic—balancing critical insight with the editors’ infectious joy for watches and the culture surrounding them.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catching Up: Wrist Shots & Watch Joy ([04:47-06:36])

• Watches of the Day:
  • Danny: 34mm Omega Seamaster on leather—“Just makes me happy.”
  • Jack: Timex LCD Q—“It is what it is… a really affordable nostalgia trip.”
  • Stephen: Hodinkee x IWC Mark 18 on fabric—“Everything you need, nothing you don’t.”
• Key Insight:
  • The editors emphasize personal enjoyment over price or prestige. Jack notes, “You can take watches seriously without taking yourself seriously.” (06:24)

2. The Watch Auction World: Cautionary Tales & Community Vigilance

a. The Allure and the Risks ([08:19-13:35])

• Auctions draw everyone from CEO’s to collectors to competitors—“The broad spectrum of personalities and perspectives and politics of this little world... all play out in real time with dollar figures attached in a room.” – Stephen (08:52)
• Three cautionary tales:
  • Jack references his recent article on auction scandals (10:35): two from the auction world (watches & wine), one from furniture, all centered on brilliant forgers who “were so passionate about what they were faking that it actually bled into the quality.”
  • “Scammers are successful at scamming because they’re really, really good at it... you tend to go for it. People want to be part of a great story.” – Jack (11:12)

b. Learning the Ropes ([13:35-15:14])

• Danny’s Learning Curve:
  • His “welcome to Hodinkee” moment: writing up an auction lot only to be “politely (or impolitely) called out” by the comments for missing fine print about swapped bezels.
  • Emphasizes the need for skepticism and humility as a watch writer.

c. The Watch Community’s Vigilance ([15:14-18:19])

• “The online watch community is really, really good at policing auctions... The Watch Internet just lights up like a Christmas tree. The level of scrutiny is really high and I think that’s a nice thing to recognize.” – Jack (16:19)
• Tracking Provenance:
  • Danny points out the ability to track the history of a watch through decades of auction records as “super fascinating.” (17:36)

d. Hot Auction Results ([18:19-24:02])

• Results from Sotheby’s Hong Kong:
  • Philippe Dufour Simplicity #100 sold for ~$662K; another for $455K.
  • “The stuff that's special is special. People still want it... All of these things perform on the basis of their own merits.” – Jack (19:40)
  • “He set the standard for independent watchmaking… but there’s a romance to watchmaking. We all love the idea of the genius toiling away in isolation and producing things of unparalleled beauty.” – Jack (23:09)
• Reflection:
  • Even at wild prices, “it all fits” when the object truly is that rare and special. – Danny (23:09)

3. Noteworthy New Releases—Elevator Pitches & Impressions

Format: Stephen gives Danny and Jack 20–30 seconds to pitch each watch (25:32)

a. Omega Speedmaster Silver Snoopy 50th Anniversary ([25:32-28:32])

• Danny:
  • Third Silver Snoopy; new silver dial with blue accents; key innovation is the mechanically animated caseback—Snoopy “flies” around the moon as the chrono runs—“It actually made me light up.”
• Jack:
  • “The engines light up.” anecdote; “Who cares about purism, Snoopy goes around in a spaceship!” (28:11)
• Mood: Delight in whimsy over strict horological seriousness.

b. Nomos Lambda in Steel ([30:15-32:48])

• Jack:
  • “A design and a movement story, as usual with Nomos. Originally a ~$20K gold watch, now $7,500 in steel—still beautifully executed, still that killer movement.”
• Danny:
  • Slightly wears large, especially with the thin bezel, but brings “distilled Bauhaus design” to a wider audience.

c. Blancpain Fifty Fathoms Day Date Desert Edition ([33:47-36:54])

• Danny:
  • “Desert diver”—a contradiction, but it works. Reference to 1962 Death Valley dive. “Evokes a desert. You look at it and go, ‘yeah, that makes sense.’”
• Jack:
  • “Dive watches really bring out the puritanical in people... but people did, you know, allow themselves to occasionally have a little fun with them. And I really like the Desert Diver.” (35:43)
  • Ties into how great vintage pieces had quirks; this captures that spirit.

d. AP Code 11.59 Grand Sonnerie Carillon Supersonnerie ([36:54-40:07])

• Jack:
  • Very rare wristwatches. “One of the best in the business”—Anita Porchet—does the dial. “If you love complicated watchmaking… there’s just nothing else like it in the world.”
• Danny:
  • “Seems to be a great vessel for a movement like this and for the enamel work.”

4. Re-Review: Tudor Black Bay 58 [A Week on the Wrist Revisited]

Segment with: Stephen, James Stacey, and Cole Pennington ([41:35-83:44])

a. Why the BB58 Struck Gold ([42:01-45:41])

• Released at Baselworld 2018 alongside the Black Bay GMT and blew up with waitlists over a year.
• “Closest thing you can buy today to a vintage Tudor or Rolex Submariner… Great in-house movement at a reasonable price.” – Stephen (45:21)

b. Standout Features ([46:30-48:21])

• Size and Profile:
  • “The moment you pick it up or put it on your wrist, the size and profile... are astounding. It almost feels like a familiar old friend.” – Stephen (46:30)
  • “A new Tudor that wears like an old Tudor.” – James (45:35)
  • “You can’t tell when this was made—could be 2020, could be 1960.” – Cole (46:30)

c. Historical DNA ([49:12-50:58])

• Mash-up of Tudor elements: vintage big crowned shape, but with “snowflake” hands (1970s), and a mix of other cues—“A one watch history lesson on Tudor.” – Stephen (50:37)

d. Best Design Choices ([51:08-54:50])

• Favorite details:
  • Red triangle on the bezel (Cole)
  • Proportioned, legible hands (James)
  • Gilt dial and warmth (Stephen):
    “There’s something so deep and rich and charming about [gilt dials]” (53:06)
• Debate: Is there too much guilt? Is the bezel too overt? Varies by taste.

e. What Would You Change? ([57:24-61:44])

• James: Less or no gilt.
• Cole: Wished for Mercedes hands over snowflake for more design continuity.
• Stephen: Silver bezel markings instead of gold, and more micro-adjustments on the bracelet; also noted bracelet sizing is tricky.
• On “faux rivets”: Panel universally shrugs—“A non issue for me. I wouldn’t notice it if I owned the watch.” – James (63:57)

f. "Could This Be One Watch for Life?" ([70:13-72:36])

• Universally, yes.
  • James: “This is what Rolex and Tudor have always done best—making a watch that a well-heeled non-watch enthusiast might buy, wear for 40 years, and hand down.” (70:13)
  • Cole: Loved the engravable caseback—great for gifting and legacy.

g. New Navy Blue BB58 ([74:26-82:29])

• “It’s just a color change—but it does mean something. It gets people excited.” – Cole (78:26)
• James:
  • Blue is “one step adjacent from black… change the color without changing its versatility.” (75:31)
  • Excited about additional variations: “Steel bezel, two-tone, GMT... this is a product line now, not just a one-off.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Watch Auctions:
  “People want to be part of a great story. It almost doesn’t matter whether it’s true or not, as long as it’s a rich and compelling narrative.” – Jack (12:41)

• On the Online Watch Community:
  “The Watch Internet just lights up like a Christmas tree. And I think that the fact that the Watch Internet in general really does want to collectively make sure that everything is correct helps… keep everyone honest.” – Jack (16:19)

• On New Watch Joy in 2020:
  “Sometimes you just want to have a good time. Like, you can buy something expensive or inexpensive, complicated or not... If you’re going to wear a watch, make it one that puts a smile on your face.” – Stephen (06:02)

• On Embracing Watch Whimsy:
  “Who cares? Snoopy goes around in a spaceship around the moon.” – Jack re: the Speedmaster Silver Snoopy 50th (28:11)

• On Black Bay 58’s Appeal:
  “It’s a new Tudor that wears like an old Tudor.” – James (45:35) “All the skepticism just melted away the second it got on the wrist.” – Cole (73:39)

Timestamps for Reference

• [04:47] – "What’s on the Wrist" Segment
• [08:19] – Auction Season & Watch Industry Gatherings
• [10:35] – Jack’s Auction Scandals & Cautionary Tales
• [13:53] – Danny’s Learning Curve in Auction Reporting
• [15:14] – Online Community Vigilance
• [18:19] – Dufour Simplicity Auction Results
• [25:31] – New Watch Releases (Snoopy, Lambda, Blancpain, AP Code 11.59)
• [41:35] – Revisit: Tudor Black Bay 58 (A Week on the Wrist)
• [74:26] – Black Bay 58 Navy Blue Variant Discussion
• [82:29] – BB58 as a Product Category; More Variants Speculation

Conclusion

A rich, multi-layered episode balancing skepticism and celebration. The team underscores the necessity of scrutiny (especially in auctions), the enduring thrill of a compelling new watch, and why designs like the Black Bay 58 become instant classics. Throughout, their camaraderie and passion shine, making the discussion as inviting to newcomers as to seasoned collectors.

Most memorable takeaways:

• “You can take watches seriously without taking yourself seriously.”
• “Snoopy goes around in a spaceship around the moon.”
• “Sometimes you just want to have a good time.”