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- [00:01]
A
This episode of Hodinkee Radio is brought to you by Accutron and the new DNA Casino Collection. With 100 pieces made in four vibrant colors, the Accutron DNA Casino perfectly fuses futuristic watchmaking and bold design. Stay tuned later in the show for more on the brand's new collection, or visit accutronwatch.com for all the details.
- [00:22]
B
Hey, it's me, James Stacy. And we're back with some more Hodinkee Radio. It's been a while since we've done an episode, but I'm excited to say that we're entering a brand new generation of the show. And the biggest part of that, at least from this episode, it won't matter much. Moving beyond that is that I'll no longer be the main host. I'm handing over those reins to my good friend, Tony. Tony. If you read the site, you know his stories. He's a huge vintage fan, an incredible writer, pretty solid watch photographer, which I'm quite proud of. He's coming along really well in that way. And now he's going to take over the reins for the show, moving forward with Hodinkee Radio into what I guess we could call like the third generation of the show. We obviously had the Steven era, we had my era. And moving forward, I'm going to take kind of a backseat and just kind of play producer, have some fun, maybe come up with fun little games, things like that for us to play and, you know, support Tony as I can. But I'm excited to say that in a world where you don't need more of my voice, we do get to get more of Tony on the show, which is going to be great. So, Tony, welcome to Hoodinkee Radio in a very official capacity. We also have Danny with us today. But, Tony, how do you feel we're taking over the show? I think I'm pretty excited about this. I think it's a good move.
- [01:27]
A
James, thanks for having me on the show. Thanks for that intro. That was far too kind to all of my skills. But it's exciting to be bringing back Hodinkee Radio on a weekly cadence again. It was one of the things I really remember about the early Hodinkee days of whenever we launched it, I should say, a handful of years ago, listening to Steven and doing all of those great interviews. It's such an authentic and real medium and hopefully we'll continue that in this new generation. The thing that we're going to be doing is, is on a weekly basis. It'll be 45 minutes to an hour max. It's going to be an editor driven show, so we'll have a different panel of editors every week. So fear not, this will not be the last of James on any capacity. He'll be here every few weeks, as will Danny Milton. And we're going to discuss things and do deeper dives into specific topics that get outside of and zoom out from the regular things that we cover on the website to give perspective and thoughts that we may not have an avenue to share and hopefully a more informal and authentic conversation. Conversation about. About Watches. All things Watches. We also plan to have guests probably on about a monthly cadence. So it's good to get perspective outside of Hodinkee as well. We're the first to recognize that. So it'll be an opportunity to have collectors on the show as well as industry leaders and people that we can have exciting conversations with that offer a different perspective from our own. Of course, we've already got one interview lined up for the end of the month here in January or early February. It's a CEO from a brand that is involved in some of the things that we'll be talking about on first pilot episode in a few minutes here. With that, I did want to introduce Danny Milton real quick. Of course, no stranger to the airwaves of Hodinkee. Hodinkee Podcasts. Hodinkee Radio. Working title, I think, James. But Danny, how are you doing today?
- [03:13]
C
I'm doing well, Tony. I'm especially happy to be here for this, this debut and this new iteration of Hodinkee Radio. So just really excited to dig into everything we're going to talk about today.
- [03:23]
B
We also have one other piece of news to add for those of you who are listening to the audio. There's also video. Whoa. So if you, if you simply found out that we brought. Brought back Hodinkee Radio via the normal, like your podcast feed, the one that, you know, we've used for years. If you'd rather watch the three of us have this nice zoom call, you can kind of peep in on the backgrounds, get an idea. Tony's feel for art and Danny's love of typewriters. You know, these, these are good options. And obviously all of that is available on Hodinkee's YouTube. So we're doing video now. We're going to see how it works out. I'm kind of fun. It's kind of weird doing video. I can't help but like kind of obsess over, over the setup and, and you know, whether or not I'm looking at the camera enough Which I'm not, but I'll do it now for those of you who are watching. But yeah, this is, this is cool. And we tried video with with BCP and it went pretty well. That's Ben Climber Presents, which the first season just wrapped up recently and, and yeah, I think it went well and it's excited to see it for Hooding Key Radio. It's something that I, you know, people have been asking for even in as far as when we were doing the show previously.
- [04:26]
A
So first of all, don't judge my taste in art or lack thereof. This is a work in progress that you see behind me on the YouTube. I think you can safely describe what we've got going on here as target art, but it'll improve, it'll become watch related over the forthcoming episodes. And I think the most exciting part.
- [04:43]
C
I just want to say I appreciate that James said my love for typewriters when I have typewriter, singular, one typewriter behind me. But maybe now I may start to just grow that collection. Just you might have manifested a new passion for me.
- [04:58]
B
It's you and Tom Hanks right at the top of the Typewriter collector.
- [05:01]
C
That's right. That's right.
- [05:04]
A
It's also going to be exciting to see how many pieces of denim James will be wearing on a weekly basis whenever he's on the show. We're just at one today, but it's.
- [05:12]
B
A family friendly show. I'm wearing, I promise, I'm wearing two. There's my lower half is also ensconced in denim. But yeah.
- [05:22]
A
Well, listen, before we get into the news of the day, in the first episode of the revived Hodinkee podcast here, I wanted to do the standard wrist check, but I wanted to do a slight variation of it that I learned from the great Danny Milton. I think he calls it the most exciting thing within reach on your desk. So it could be a watch, it could be watch related. It could be, you know, James has all kinds of interesting everyday carry things I'm sure just laying around the desk there. I know he's been working, he's been working on woodworking and some other resolutions I'm sure in 2024. So. So as he holds up a hammer, you know, I think, I think because it's a video format or at least there's a video format option, it's an exciting way for us to show something cool that, you know, we've got near our desk. Maybe it's a watch that we're about to review for the site and it's a little preview of that. But just something cool and exciting on our desk. Maybe I'll go first here. I've got, you know, it's always sitting on my desk. So it's tough for me that I'll use the freebie kind of on the first episode here. But it's just one of these little. I'll hold it up to the camera and then maybe we can splice in a photo. But it's one of these little Movado or Meadow clock first clock thingies, right? So these are fun. I always forget this, but the way in which you kind of wind it is just. You kind of open and close it and it winds the crown. It just got stuck. So that's a really bad advertisement for Movado or Meadow clocks. But you can kind of hear it winding, right? It's kind of cool. It winds the crown if you open and close it. It's really. It's kind of the original fidget spinner, really. But it tells the time all right too. And it's a nice little desk clock. I don't put it in my purse much, but it's a nice desk clock. Danny, over to you for something exciting near you.
- [07:00]
C
There's no shortage of things. I've got watches in my desk drawer. I've got box cutters. I've got. I'll go with this. This is fun. In addition to. I mean, I'm also going to say I'm going to do a risk check. I'm going to show what was in reach. I just picked this up, which is omega Seamaster Diver 300 green dial, which I'm just over the moon.
- [07:19]
B
It's a good green.
- [07:21]
C
My first seamaster diver I've ever owned. And I got small wrists and it works for me still, so I'm really into it. What I picked up within reach is something that I. It's just been, you know, a nice desk companion of mine is a Bulova desk clock here. Apollo 15 themed, which is great because the clock comes out little holder.
- [07:45]
B
Oh, it is cool.
- [07:45]
A
Yeah.
- [07:46]
C
It's got a little plaque on it commemorating the EVA on August 2, 1971. And it's great because this dial is loomed so when it gets dark, I can still see what time it is. It ticks audibly. And then I'm gonna do just. I just. Because I'm going nuts here. If I. If I tilt my camera up. I've got a fantastic worst clock up there. That boy.
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B
I knew the Aquas had a couple.
- [08:12]
C
Of big models shout out to Our friend bj. Our friends Vijay and Josh at Oris. But that is a. That's a big boy. Just for scale.
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B
Is that the only size Aquas with a ticking seconds hand?
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A
Probably.
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C
It is a sweet sweep.
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B
It sweeps.
- [08:27]
A
It sweeps.
- [08:28]
C
Is battery power, but it sweeps. I think it's like 100 millimeter. I have no idea.
- [08:32]
B
It's gonna be well over.
- [08:34]
C
It's a lot of millimeters.
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B
You can you. I think. I think when you're measuring something that big, it thinks the size of a medium pizza.
- [08:41]
C
It's just. It's a medium pizza. Oh, that's the size of a medium pizza.
- [08:44]
B
Yeah. We have to use the American. You guys aren't on metric. You're still using pizza. It's tough.
- [08:52]
A
Any size pizza can be a personal. If you just dream.
- [08:54]
B
If you're hungry. Yeah.
- [08:56]
A
Yeah. All right. James, what about you? Most exciting thing nearby you, Man, I.
- [09:00]
B
Got a lot of stuff around me. I got a watch I can't show anyone. I got a cool clock over this shoulder. But I'll save that for another time because we both did clock. I have a little piece of buying advice I talked about on another podcast recently. It is a UV flashlight. For you guys who like to charge up your Lume. I'm holding it up for those of you watching the video. I can even shine it directly into the camera, which I'm sure the camera will love. There it goes. Kind of fun. This is like, let's see, current price, Canadian$21. So that's about 16 bucks U.S. it's on Amazon. It's called the Alone Fire SV38. And this has become like a constant tool if I'm bored on a call. As long as you don't shine it at the. At the camera, nobody can tell. But I'll just sit there and play with my loom. I'm currently wearing the Longines Le Spirit Zulu that we did recently, which I absolutely adore, has great lume and. But this is probably one of my favorite recommendations from, you know, the latter half of last year. I ran into a fella in Dubai that had one. And I just assume sometimes flashlights are crazy expensive. I own some crazy expensive ones. They're very fun. This one's not that it's very cheap and I really, really like it. It's simple. It charges over usb. And if you like taking wrist shots of Lume shots as I do, or even just testing Lume, maybe checking out old watches, stuff like that, pretty handy. I think they make a slightly smaller version as well. If you don't want one quite this big, but that's my suggestion. It's the alone fire SV38 and it's a UV flashlight.
- [10:30]
A
I can attest. I've got the pint sized version at home. Works well too.
- [10:35]
B
Killer.
- [10:35]
A
Well, listen, thanks for indulging me in the most exciting thing on your desk, guys. And I think with that we'll take it into the news of 2024. So far, I think we're going to hop into sort of a news roundup of some of the bigger stories we've had in 2024 and even late 2023. Since this is our pilot episode, we're just going to give you a flavor of the things that we might cover. First of all, we're recording this on Tuesday, January 16th, just to give a little peek behind the scenes. And this morning, or this afternoon, Swiss time, if you will, we saw a big intro from Omega, a new Speedmaster Dark side of the Moon. So one of the first big releases from a major brand of 2024. So we thought we'd take just a few minutes to talk about it. Like I said, it's a dark side of the moon. Apollo 8. It's an update to the 2018 dark side of the Moon. So some of the key specs, it'll be familiar to those who remember that that watch from 2018, but it does have an updated hand wound, caliber 3869. It's now at Master Chronometer. So one of the internal updates is one of the big ones. And if you look at some of the photos, you'll see it's got this cool sort of laser engraved moon motif on the back with engraved plates and bridges. There's also this skeleton aluminum dial. And one of the new details or highlights to me, I think that Danny called probably in the running as the coolest seconds hand of 2024, perhaps all year, is this running seconds at 9 o'. Clock. That's like a mini Saturn V rocket. It's made of titanium and then it's like painted in white and black as you might imagine. All of this in a black ceramic case that's 44 and a quarter millimeters. And the price that I'll just mention is 14,300 MSRP compared to about 9,700 for that previous version. But a lot of improvements like I said that we just mentioned there. And I was kind of reminding myself about the previous generation of the Apollo Dark side of the Moon. Which of course led me to James's great review from 2018 of the previous generation, where you called it an interesting blend of old and new Omega that comes together with a specific charm and appeal. So I'm wondering, James, recalling that review and looking at this new update to the Dark side of the Moon, if you could talk about where the watch sits for you in the wider Omega Speedmaster catalog.
- [12:55]
B
Yeah, look, I mean, I think a lot has changed in five years, both for Speedmasters, for Omega, for watches in general. But I think it, like that comment that I made about the original in 2018, which was a 50th anniversary model, still stands. I think that it is a little bit of an esoteric kind of outlier in the Speedmaster world, even within the guise of the Dark side of the Moon, which is already like a non Speedmaster Speedmaster, if that makes sense. Like, being that it's not steel, they're larger, not offered on a bracelet, at least in this, certainly in this iteration. That said, all of, like, the cool charm of the original, which was that skeletonized dial in the moon motif and the coloring, all of that stands. And it feels like they almost just took it a step further. They took it a step further in terms of the cool Saturn 5 hand. They took a step further in terms of the finishing. They took it a step further in terms of the price. And I think this reflects kind of exactly where Omega is and where they've come in the last five years with the importance of Master Chronometer. I also think that it's. It's kind of interesting to see that they seem entirely unwilling to do a Dark side of the Moon in a speedy Pro size, because this would have been one option to have done it. You know, there's kind of two main ways that a brand might go ahead and launch a big change to a model. They might do it with the core, which you don't change the core Speedmaster. So I think in this case, you would do the other option, which is to take an outlier model. Like, not only is the Dark side of the Moon a layer deeper, and then you have the Apollo a layer deeper than that. And I think with this one, this could have been a neat opportunity for them to try, you know, a 42 millimeter, you know, fully ceramic case, but a 44 and a quarter. One has to assume that they know all the sales numbers from the last five years. My guess is they're pretty confident that they can move these. And this remains sort of a special and decidedly kind of different take on a Speedmaster that still leans pretty hard into the Whole sort of moon travel sort of scenario.
- [14:58]
A
You know, Danny, we had just a brief chat about our predictions for Omega for 2024, for an article that'll be forthcoming on the site. And I'm wondering if this first release, how it might fit into what else you think we might from Omega for the rest of the year.
- [15:15]
C
So initially thinking about, about Omega, you know, last year I was in, I was at Omega HQ for their first launch of 2023. And it's funny that it was a. A Speedmaster of sorts, a chronograph with the exact same basic color configuration, black and yellow. When they came out with the, the spy rate and the new movement technology, which I was, you know, admittedly surprised not to see implemented here, I would figure that sort of the first launch of this year would be sort of a signpost of things to come. My understanding is that, you know, in a long view, Omega will be implementing that technology across toll movement family. But I think I want to say that this is a watch that is probably going to be disconnected from whatever else we see this year. I think January is sort of like a new year. Not our flagship release, not our flagship theme of releases, but just something to remind you that Omega still does what Omega does. And I don't think you can see any other brand sort of doing dial work like this that's both playful and extremely sporty and, you know, inextricably tied to, you know, it's sort of NASA roots in a way. It's, it's. I mean, I have, I'm unfortunately not in Europe. My understanding is the event that took place today was for European press and they got a chance to sort of see, get hands on with the watch, which is great. But even the images that were supplied here, it's just, it's a, it's a, it's amazing what has been done, you know, with the miniaturized work, the hand of the year. But I, but back to your question. I think that given what we saw last year from Omega, which was one watch in January and a bunch of seamasters in the summertime that we're in for, I think a bigger release year, I don't think this is indicative of what we'll see.
- [17:10]
A
Yeah, Danny, you know, one of the predictions that I had kind of slotted in that I was looking for a punchy subhead and maybe my great editorial team will be able to help with that on the back end, but it's something to the effect of Omega will continue to do some of the most cutting Edge commercial watchmaking at its price point. And everything we see in this watch is kind of representative of that. You know, people are going to balk at the price and all of that type of stuff that we always see. But if you look at that Saturn V hand and the ceramic case and all of the stuff that they're doing on the, on the dial and the movement side, it's impressive. And it'll find, as Jay mentioned, James mentioned, it'll. It'll find the market that it's intended for. And I think, as you're saying, it's probably sort of a one off thing that'll be separate from whatever else Omega has planned for us throughout 2024.
- [17:57]
C
We could probably slot in a black and yellow watch in January of every year for the next five years. Maybe that'll be an easy prediction.
- [18:03]
A
That's true. Two in a row, baby.
- [18:04]
B
Yeah. I also think this is kind of like a difficult case upon which to build a law, which maybe is kind of the point that Danny was reaching for there. And like, I think that, you know, like, think about the delta of Speedmasters and you know, in the middle, maybe you have the core, the pro, and then you guys can think of like the pro models that have a Snoopy on them or that have an insignia from an Apollo program. I feel like that's one. We're going a couple clicks towards Moon Nerd. And I think if you go four or five more clicks, you get to this watch. It's like very Moon Nerd appropriate. And I think if that's the vibe, it's just a niche product. So it has a niche price, it has a niche performance statement. As far as like, you have to, like, obviously I think you have to feel a certain way about Saturn V. You got to feel a certain way about ceramic. You got to feel a certain way about the moon landing for any of this to make sense. But if you check those boxes, I think they've got a pretty kind of cool, interesting sort of unique take on expanding this watch, which was already, as I said previously, sort of an outlier within the Speedmaster range to begin with.
- [19:10]
A
Yeah. Just one final thought for me is that this is kind of a. They don't make them like they used to comment, but the engraving on the back is, we'll see you on the other side. And just some of the greatest quotes of all time are from the Apollo programs and other stuff, and they make for great caseback engravings. I just wanted to add that thought before we move on to our next little piece of news. And that, of course, is the Blancpain and Swatch Ocean of Storms. So it's the latest release from the Blancpain swatch collaboration, the Scuba 50 that we saw last year. This one takes inspiration from the moon's Oceanus Pro Solarum, and I'm hoping, apologies to any lunar residents who I might have mispronounced the name of their famed ocean there, but it's a black bioceramic case with a brushed black dial and orange accents. That is, as Danny said, it's perhaps the most 50 fathom scuba 50 yet. So we saw the initial quintet of releases based on the earthly oceans towards the end of last year, but this one is based off of the moon's ocean. And. And Danny, in your intro, you had sort of the exclusive scoop on this for Hodinkee. You called it possibly the best Blancpain Swatch Swatch yet. So I want to hear your thoughts. Is it really the best?
- [20:32]
C
I maintain that. That position for sure for a variety of reasons. I think that, you know, when the first five were released in this, in the different, various colors representative of the various oceans, that to me, was for the enthusiast, like, period, like, I think a bit of the colorful, the playfulness was out there for the. For a new consumer, similar to what they saw with MoonsWatch. But Omega and Blancpain are very two different. They're two very different brands. And I think that Omega has immediate recognizability. Even if you're not into watches. I think even if you're a tiny bit into watches, you might know what a Speedmaster is. But they. I think that the brands, the Swatch group at large always knew that the Blancpain, the point of this was not to capture the same fanfare that they got with moonswatch. I think it's a long play. I think we'll see many more of these in the future. It's a long play to just get watches to a new audience, and I think we're seeing it. But I think this black version represents an entry point into mechanical watchmaking, into historically significant brands in a look that you could wear every day and nobody would look at your wrist and think you're wearing, like a playful toy of a watch. It doesn't have that same, like, Happy Meal quotient that you might get with, like a mission to Mars. As cool as that watch is, or the sort of the orange or the green Blancpain 50Fathoms editions. This is a watch period. It's a watch with, with amazing design DNA that works as a Blancpain, and it fits the system, you know, 51 case. And I just think the ability to make an everyday watch inspired by a brand of that level of heritage is why I think it's the best. I think it's definitely my favorite. And people who I've spoken to who aren't super into watches, like, $400 is not a huge ask of someone. I mean, it's definitely expensive, but you're more likely to. To get someone to shell out 400 bucks on a watch that they wouldn't have to have, like a blue watch on their wrist every day or a green watch on their wrist every day. So that's where I'm coming from.
- [22:42]
A
Yeah. It's the natural push. Pushback, of course, is that it is a lot for. For a swatch and a system 51, but. But point taken that this isn't just any. Any swatch or any system 51. All of the Blancpain DNA that you're talking about is there. And I will say, I was walking around Miami beach over the past few days, as one does, and I saw at least two or three Blancpain Swatches. So these things are out there and it's cool to see and listen. People are starting to learn about the story of Blancpain, which is more than you could have said even six months ago. James, I wanted to ask you kind of a general question, because when I was sitting down putting together this rundown, I realized I didn't know your thoughts about just the Blancpain Swatch collab more generally. It's not something we've talked about, so I'm wondering what you want to see from Blancpain Swatch going forward. It seems like they're going to continue to perhaps drip out collaborations of some sort or something similar. So I'm wondering what you'd like to see from them going forward, or perhaps more broadly from the future of Swatch collaborations.
- [23:39]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think what's interesting about this one, which Danny already underlined, is like, this is arguably the most conventional of the 50 Fathom Swatch collabs that we've seen so far. It's the one that seems most at home. It's not a bright color. It's a little bit more under the radar, which I think makes sense. I find it interesting because it was divisive when Omega did it. And arguably, I think it weirdly, maybe I just exist more in a dive watch space than I do in a chronograph space. But I think the Blancpain ones seem even more divisive and it could be the higher price point. Right. There's a few different ways you can look at it. One, why would Blanc Dome Long Pong do this? And we had the same conversations about Omega. Why would Omega do this? Well, it turns out, at least anecdotally what we've heard from Omega is this was seriously effective in sharing their brand. And the as bummer of a term, this is, this is the world we live in. The DNA of the Speedmaster with a group of people who weren't going to go after a $9,000 watch or a 6,000, 7,000, 8,000, like whatever you can find a Speedmaster for, depending on the model and the spec and the rest of it. And I think if it made sense for Omega, the exact same thing has to make sense for bonkpot. Just getting their name out there, I think is the, is the game, especially when you make a very premium product. And you know, I spoke to Bonkpot CEO not that long ago and he was very clear that they don't really have an intention of going down market as a brand. So this is a sort of interesting exception that does speak to an entirely different audience than the brand otherwise captures on a day to day, month to month, year to year basis. Even in a big year. They had the, you know, the big 70th anniversary three act planned from last year. We've heard rumors of what's coming this year and I think it's an interesting time for the brand. I don't really have like, I don't do a lot of hand wringing about the brand side of it. If a brand, Blancpain, Omega, any brand really shoots themselves in the foot, that's their fault. And like, it's not up to me. I don't make these decisions. I'm not a shareholder. It's all good. But this is business. I'm more concerned for the consumer side of it. And this is where like, hey, we have a record where we're on a podcast right now. They should sell these online. I think that a good portion of the negative sort of impressions that can come up in conversations about these watches and certainly about the Speedmaster versions, were that they originally said they would eventually be available online and then they changed their mind. And I don't think anybody these days, especially people who are in the watch game, even if they're not in a world where they have to argue over their ability to buy one of 170 Tiffany dial 5711s just don't like the idea that they can't buy something that should be available. If you want to make a bio ceramic quote unquote, something similar to plastic cased watch with a computer made movement, you should be able to make a lot of them and you should sell them online. The rest of it I think just comes down to opinion. I've spoken to people who Love and own Blancpain 50 Fathoms that Don't like these watches, and I've spoken to people who love and own Blancpain 50 Fathoms that Do Love these watches. So I think if anything, it's just something that splits the line and I think that's okay. It's good to make have a moment. And I think part of that moment is in the divisive quality of the product. I've seen the blue one in person, the one that Danny has, and I really like it. I think they're fun. The price doesn't bother me. You know, I think they are a little bit more disposable than a Blancpain should be, but they are appropriate for a Swatch in my mind. And I think that the thing that does bother me, that I would like to advocate for, for our readers, for people who love watches, is that they, you know, it would be cool if they sold these online. Even if you, you paid and waited. I don't think anybody would mind that. It's better I don't. I'm not going to wait in line, physical wait in line for anything at all. Definitely not a watch.
- [27:28]
A
It's just the fundamental push and pull of the product and then the accessibility of the product. Right. Like Swatch is all about democratization and all of this stuff. And my understanding, Ocean of Storms wasn't even available in every Swatch boutique or Swatch store, if you want to call it that. Danny, as you mentioned, it's going to be part of the regular collection, so I assume it will be rolled out more broadly over the coming months. But it does make it difficult to completely get behind a release if it's not going to be like you're saying, James, broadly accessible to the folks. So, you know, speaking on behalf of.
- [28:01]
B
Inducement, we all just want to be excited about watches.
- [28:04]
C
For sure. There's a level of it too there. I imagine that what Swatch is doing is understanding what an absolute crowded space it is out there. And the only way to create demand is to, is to do this. And we all also know that I think originally the plan, at least the messaging was that they Were going to put the moon swatches online very quickly. That was reversed. So it's not like it had. That seed has not been planted or at least thought about, you know, in those halls, you know, over in Switzerland. But I imagine we'll see it. What I do like about this overall, you know, despite the comments that tell me that, you know, they've jumped the shark every which way with some of this stuff, is I think it's very real that people develop brand loyalty when it comes to watches. Especially if you're not a collector. If you are just like once you're like an Omega guy, you're an Omega guy. Or if you're a Speedmaster guy, you're a Speedmaster guy. And I appreciate the fact, like, yeah, this is probably something of a cash grab, but these are also for profit businesses. And what are they supposed to do but launch successful products? And this happened to be successful products. I'm not sure what how we're measuring the success of the Blancpain yet. That remains to be seen. But I do think that we also know that watch enthusiasm is extremely addictive. And so we missed the boat of the days where you could buy a Rolex Submariner for $150 and where those watches have far surpassed the rate of inflation over the years. So even if you were to cross compare what $150 was in 1970 to today, you're looking at something far less than what it really costs. So it's cool that you can sort of just like walk in and drop $275 and end up with a piece of heritage and at the high end, $400.
- [29:57]
A
Well, listen, guys, I think that's a. Go ahead, James.
- [29:59]
B
Sorry, my apologies. I waited too long to my pregnant pause there. But yeah, I think that the pricing thing I do, I like, I'm kind of like a split mind when it comes to arguing about what a watch costs, because some watches are like aggressively overpriced. And maybe that's because the brand doesn't want to make that many, maybe that they can't, or maybe there's something in there and they know that it's only going to appeal to a certain type of buyer. And that buyer is not that cost sensitive. There's a bunch of different ways to look at it with a $400 watch. I think that there's an element of the watch community, especially the value side of the watch community, which I'm part of. That was my bread and butter when I started in this game. And I still Love watches that are less than $1,000 very much. I'm fascinated by them and try and follow them as much as possible. But I think that the world. And there's a little bit of like a time machine effect of people not remembering that you can't buy an SKX 007 from Seiko for $140 anymore.
- [30:54]
A
Right?
- [30:55]
B
You just can't. And that's too bad. But the idea that these are $400 is kind of like $170 in watches 10 years ago, or $140 or whatever number you want to attribute to the first Seiko you bought that isn't an snk that costs you 65 bucks. That was the real screaming deal that we should all be sad about going away. But, yeah, I think the pricing doesn't feel out of line from the world of Swatch, and I think it's really interesting to think where they'll take it next. You know, Tony, that was part of your question. You know, there's definitely rumors of brands that are out there. I for one, think there's a weird side of me that would like a cartoonish, plasticky, bio ceramic take on early Breitling if I was throwing out a brand that's not part of the rumors that you can find online. But, like, imagine, you know, like, I think it'd be fascinating to see them do a navitimer in. In this. In. In wild colors and introduce people to a piece of the history of the aviation era, of the post war, you know, space race and that kind of thing. That's kind of the one that pops into my mind. But I'm curious, like, if you guys, what brand do you think has an IP that's as strong as Speedmaster or 50 fathoms to us, you know, quote unquote, people, you know, people who spend most of their time talking and looking at watches, what ones would you guys want to see turned into these sort of fun, cartoonish kind of lower stakes takes?
- [32:30]
C
I mean, I think that I understand why they didn't do it right after the Speedmaster, but the obvious is just to stay in Omega and just do the Seamaster.
- [32:42]
B
That would be pretty cool in a.
- [32:43]
C
Bunch of colors like a diver 300M. I think it'd be really fun. I think it's like a great template. I think a wave dial translates really nicely to this format. I've heard some pretty credible rumors that I'm not gonna, you know, put out there, but I think, like, there are, you know, I would love to see something outside of the Swatch Group. Much to James suggestion about Breitling. And I think I've, I've heard from pretty good sources that the Swatch Group is not having to go out and ask. They're getting like, several requests from brands wondering if they, if they can collaborate.
- [33:20]
B
Yep. Tony, I'm, I'd like. I'm deep down, do you just want a bio ceramic take on the two, two, two full bracelet?
- [33:29]
A
I think that's right. I think bio ceramic integrated bracelet watch. Listen, like, the trend has been away from those over the past few years, so maybe we're past the point of a, of a bio ceramic Royal Oak or Nautilus or two, two, two, like you said. But, man, I think Danny's alluding to some of the rumors and some of them involve the aforementioned watches, but I think that'd be sick. But who knows if it'll ever happen? Who knows if it'll ever happen at this point? You know, I'm trying to think like so much of the trend has been towards, like, smaller, dressier watches. And obviously one of the classically inspired brands in this watch group is Breguet. And I love the idea of a bio ceramic Breguet Tourbillon, which I've seen kicked around and probably even seen some photoshopped renderings of. That would be wild if you want to go in the other direction. But that feels a little less plausible to me.
- [34:22]
B
Yeah, I don't, you know, just watch. Have a tourbillon movement that I've forgotten about.
- [34:27]
C
Not yet.
- [34:28]
B
I wonder if they could make a system 51 but out but rearrange it so it was like a tradition, like with the fully open worked. I mean, the answer is it'd be pretty cool. I'd like. That's not going to be $400 just to set. Just. Just let me help Breguet set the audience expectations. You may or may not be able to buy it online. Definitely not. 400 bucks.
- [34:50]
A
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- [37:55]
C
From like a broader industry perspective. You know, we've seen revivals of brands at a lower price point become sort of like a very in vogue thing to do. Sort of buying up ip, going back into the catalog and producing, you know, in many cases one to one recreations of watches, you know, from the 1960s, 1970s, things like that. If you think about ug, I'm, I'm quite glad that it is now owned by a brand like Breitling and sort of not been brought into where you might confuse a new UG with a micro brand in a way, if that makes sense. And that's no slight to those other watches. It's just, it's a very dangerous territory because I think in a perfect world UG would have survived the ages and we would have had sort of like whatever the timeline of design through the years brought us to today. And what Yuji would, I would, I would rather see Breitling whenever they figure this out. And I've heard sort of rumblings that, that Yuji will exist upmarket a bit in the way they're going to position the brand, which I guess that's good depending on what, you know, what they're going to be basing those designs off of. But I would like for it not to be sort of a, a retro, revival inspired brand, nor would I like it to be sort of some strange futurist version of Universal Geneva where you're, you're taking every bit of its heritage away from it and only maintaining the name, which I don't think, you know, Georges Kern and team would ever do. I think they're extremely conscious of what history means to watch design. So, you know, when I look at things like what Current has done with the Breitling premier line of watches, I foresee UG sitting somewhere up in that space. And I think that what they've done, what Breitling has done there is, is quite remarkable in the face of a brand that basically is recognized on the back of the Navitimer, the Chronomat, things of that nature, more like, you know, tool watches. And so if it's, if it's going to look anything like how those watches are presented, I'm excited for where it's headed.
- [40:22]
A
Yeah, Danny, one thing you said there that, you know, we even got some intel from the comments section of our website, which is great when that happens. But Fred, Fred Mandelbaum, who is basically a heritage consultant for Breitling, he's been involved with really reviving the heritage appreciation for that brand and the inspiration that it takes in some of their modern designs. He left a comment on our site where we introed or announced the deal that said you will not see a mass market movement in a ug which seems to hint at exactly what you're saying and some of their, their, their ambitions for the Breitling brand. It's going to be sort of reviving UG inside and out. So designs as well as some of the, the chronograph movements and the micro rotor movements we see in the pole routers and, and stuff like that, it, it hints at probably what they've got to, to come for the brand and probably part of the reason where we, why we won't expect anything for at least a couple of years.
- [41:13]
B
Sure.
- [41:16]
A
James, I wanted to ask you a question. Maybe I'll tee it up this way because it's basically universal. Geneve is a brand that's been kept alive by enthusiast a generation now since it's been held by that Hong Kong company. And I'm wondering as an enthusiast, what you're hoping to see from a revive ug. Kind of take this question any way you want. Maybe this is specific models or specific movements to you, or maybe it's just an ethos and how they approach their or think about design and watchmaking.
- [41:43]
B
Yeah, I think it's a funny thing to set out on the task that they have by start by essentially planning to relaunch ug. And I hope that what they decide to do is just take their time. I think that they have the resources. They have folks like Fred, who you mentioned. Let's watch Fred on Instagram. For those of you, if you want to learn about vintage Breitling, this is a great way to go. And I think, take your time, talk to all of the people who have kept this brand alive philosophically, emotionally, people who have written about it online. Try and capture what the. Because I think it's one thing if this was five or six years ago, seven, eight years ago, I would say, look, UG is mid century perfection. Just do that. But everybody's been doing that for the last few years and now they're behind that ball. And I think the world in which, yeah, you could crank out a new pole router and have it feel really fresh was kind of eclipsed by 200 other brands making 50s to mid-60s to late 60s style watches. In a modern place. I agree with Danny that I'm pretty happy that this went to a large, powerful brand. But I think the other side that's interesting is, you know, Breitling has its lane and it's a lane they typically stick to. And this gives a powerful brand with a lot of manufacturing capabilities and the independence to do what they want, a new lane, which I find really exciting. So I don't have any doubt that Breitling has the ability to make or partner with anyone they want to make a movement they want. They could work with tudor. They have in the past that we've got new manufacturing capabilities since they even started that production with tudor. And I think there's a ton of potential, but everything is going to come down to execution. And I think from the get go, they have to understand, and I'm sure they do, but I'll say it anyways, they have to understand that their customers already exist and it's the absolute mindshare of this brand online. And they can't own that. They just have to respect it. They bought the brand, they own that they can make watches with the brand name on it. But if they want to be successful, they have to make, they have to start at least by making watches that UG nerds want to buy. And I think figuring out what that means in 2026, let's call it, is a task. I think they're capable of doing it. I think they've done a. I think George has done a great job with Breitling, especially over the past two or three years, let alone since the Navi line was kind of remade and that sort of thing. But I hope that they just take it roughly to the execution of the 806 Limited Editions, one of my favorite kind of vintage effect RE editions of the last several years, but really do so by leaning into the ear of the. Of the collector that has essentially kept this brand interesting and alive, despite the fact that it was in many ways, you know, in a coma for a long time.
- [44:48]
A
Yeah. And I will say they've already sort of put together what sounds like they're. They're calling an advisory council of kind of well known vintage collectors, vintage dealers. Over the past six months or so even, it sounds like they've been talking about what might be in store for the brand, which is one of the reasons we started to hear rumblings and leaks that this was happening in advance of the official news. So it sounds like they're already leaning into the enthusiast side of things. So to your point, it does also sound like they're going to take things slow and they have no plans to be releasing anything for at least the next year or two as they think about what to do on the design and the movement side.
- [45:25]
B
Right. Plus, is that. My apologies, but you know, I think that the final plus of this, which is kind of what Danny was getting at earlier, is like by Breitling doing this, it means that we don't have a UG that starts with a Kickstarter watch.
- [45:40]
C
Yeah, exactly.
- [45:41]
B
This will be a premium brand from the first 2020, whatever model they make. There won't be a growth curve. There will be everything that it needs to succeed. There'll be press trips, there'll be be proper photography, there'll be all this sort of stuff. It's not going to be as much as. And look, I love indie brands and micro brands and the rest of it, but I totally agree with Danny. Where, you know, it's difficult to. To kind of find comps in the market. Volcan jumps to mind weirdly just because of their footing. But Volcan doesn't have the. The like enthusiasts, hardcore, cultish. They have a cult following for sure, but not like almost no brand has one like ug. So I mean, stakes are kind of high, but I think they have the right company brand money, technical press, the rest of it to. To make it happen. And I'm. It's one thing that I'm like genuinely interested in in the next couple years. I think a lot of watches in the last couple years have been kind of boring and derivative. Not bad, but just the same, which is fine. New people come into the fold all the time and you get to learn about stuff in different paces. But I think this is a genuinely exciting move and I think probably at least. Tony, I'd be curious if you agree, but Breitling seems like a good brand, a good match for this task.
- [47:02]
A
No, it does. I think when I talked to you guys and kind of had heard that this might be happening and I said that Breitling was the one acquiring it, I think Danny paused for a minute and then he said, yeah, I think that makes sense. I mean, two of the most historic chronograph makers in the history of watchmaking now together. And I think it sounds like Yuji is going to be doing something separate on the movement side, but obviously shared expertise and all of that type of stuff will come into play. But I think on the product side, it is difficult to think of an analog. I think of things that have impressed me in the price point that it sounds like they're going to try to play in that are heritage inspired, but not overly derivative of something we've seen over the past few years are something like the JLC Heritage Reverso chronograph that we saw last year, which was an amazing watch, right? It's based off of a watch in the 90s, but a totally modern thing where they updated the movement and it's sort of heritage inspired, but a totally modern thing. Another one is the the Chopard Luc 1860 with a salmon dial that they released last year. Again inspired by a watch from the 90s, but a beautiful Geneva seal micro rotor movement and all of that type of stuff. And obviously the comparison there to the micro rotors of the 50s and 60s Pole routers already is there. But these are heritage inspired watches, but things that are also completely modern and not overly reliant on the past. And I'm hoping that if that's the price point that they're going to be trying to play in, which it sounds like they are, I'm hoping that maybe that's the direction that they're pointing at. But we'll see, guys. Right?
- [48:33]
B
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Swatch x ug 2026. That'll be the first bioceramic pole rotors.
- [48:41]
A
Oh, can you imagine?
- [48:43]
B
I can hear the pitchforks. They don't normally make a lot of noise. I can hear them.
- [48:48]
C
The Swatch router. The Pulse.
- [48:49]
B
Watch this Pulse. Watch.
- [48:53]
A
For the final segment of our weekly podcast, you know, maybe the last five to eight minutes of every episode, I wanted to intro something that I think I'm going to call the working title is Collecting Advice based off of another podcast where they do life of advice. Life advice, if I'm being honest. But. But the idea is to take perhaps the most common question I get in my emails or DMs or just talking to other Watch enthusiasts is kind of this genre of inquiry I think of as collecting advice. So it's enthusiasts or full on collectors asking if they should buy, sell, trade this or that watch and then just seeking opinions on it, right? We all want opinions or validation into this crazy hobby of ours and the ways in which we're spending too much money. So each week I'll bring one of these situations to our editors, I'll introduce it the DM that I got or the message that I got, and we'll do our best to offer some advice to our collector listeners. So this one I'm calling Three Hander for graduation and I would say in the subset of inquiries I get about collecting advice. This specific one is probably one of the most common ones I get. So this came from a guy named Michelle who's an engineering student. So Michel writes in and he says to me via DMs, I have a two watch collection. A Seiko SPB143 editorial note here. It's clear that he's been reading James's work on the site. So congrats for that Michel. And a Baltic HMS 002. For my university graduation I'd like to add another piece. An everyday watch with three hands. I have a small wrist so prefer a small lug to lug. I was thinking about the Grand Seiko SBGX261, one of their 9F quartz watches. But do you think there are other interesting options? I'm wondering if the Grand Seiko is too dressy for everyday use. Other alternatives I've thought about include the Longines Spirit 37 and the Tudor Black Bay 36. So James, I'm going to hand it over to you I think first to give us some thoughts. But I think Michelle here it sounds like even as a student he's built a nice little two watch collection. You've got your dive watch, you've got your dress watch. And now on the pending graduation here, it looks like he's adding something a little more. A little more expensive, a little more upscale is something every day. So. So James, what are your thoughts?
- [51:03]
B
Yeah, look, I think this is great. I don't know that this collection needs a third watch. But who am I to slow you down? Nobody slowed me down in my third or my 20th.
- [51:11]
A
You're not doing your job if you slow them down. James, come on.
- [51:14]
B
No, no, no, that's not what I'm saying. I think you're doing just great already, Michelle. But I love the idea of picking up a watch to mark a great moment. And honestly, there is something that remains really special about Grand Seikos. I understand the appeal as a watch to commemorate something. They have this kind of jewel like quality and fastidious finishing and they make interesting watches like this sbgx261. I love a quartz watch and I like high end, high accuracy quartz stuff is really fun. I think in my mind with the watches you already have, I might lean on something that is actually even dressier than this and go sbgw something from that range. That would also get you a lesser lug to lug, I believe, or at least something in the similar range of say 44 millimeters. And it's a nice case width and you have a few more options in terms of dial color. Typically when someone wants a watch that in my mind is somewhere between a field watch and a dress watch, I need to know really where you land on do I need a bracelet or not? Like, am I a strap guy, am I only a bracelet guy? That sort of thing. So I think that factors in. I think you could go towards a more budget option with something from Hamilton and still be really happy with it. And it would complement the collection nicely, seeing as you have the sort of dive watch and then the Baltic as well. And you would expand that with a sort of cool field watch, which I think could be really fun. And obviously you can get your way into khaki field Mechanical for 6, $700, which I think is quite appealing. But it's a different, that is admittedly a very different appeal than a Grand Seiko. And to a certain extent, I think if you're locked in on a Grand Seik Seiko, you may be not locked in on something like the Hamilton. You know, if you want to dig around at even dressier options that still capture a similar vibe, you could check out the JDM Seiko collection that's called Dolce D O L C E. So I have one from this line, it's called the Seiko Dolce SACM150 and it was under a thousand dollars. And I think it takes a certain appeal from Grand Seiko in that you get mountain style hands and a kind of fanciful dial. But this watch is quite small. It's 30, 33, 5, 34, has a little tiny crown. It uses a high accuracy quartz. I think it's gorgeous. It has this sort of textured gold dial. But the Dolce line includes a lot of other watches and I think that might also be worth, worth the option the, the next one and sort of final one in my thought process, honestly, I might be taken right out of Tony's pocket. Look into quartz Cartier. Like with the watches you have there, a quartz tank or, or even a larger panther or something that maybe aligns with your. Whichever one kind of hits your vibe the hardest, if you will. I think that's also a great option. You still get quartz. You get an incredible name. You get to watch it. Like. Like is so eminently stylish right now, but has never really not been stylish there had, you know, Cartier is enjoying a really solid moment in the last couple years and I think that's going to continue. And as long as you don't feel like a tank or conceivably in some guys a Santos or Panther or something was too, too dressy to be an option. I think that's also a good play as.
- [54:34]
A
Danny Milton. Your thoughts?
- [54:36]
C
I'm gonna just keep it simple because I think you know where, where Michelle's coming from having sort of like an idea of, of two brands that you're looking at. I think Tudor is an interesting place because now all the Black Bay non divers, The Black Bay 36, Black Bay 41 on they're all on five link bracelets. Now they're no longer. That's true three link oyster style. And so it changes the dynamic of the watch in a way that admittedly like I miss the oyster style bracelet a bunch but I have now seen the Black Bay 36 with the new blue dial released at Watches and Wonders last year several times. It is the one of the most compelling dials on a simple no nonsense 3 hand watch that I can think of off the top of my head period. It's a very unique blue.
- [55:29]
A
It's.
- [55:29]
C
It's a weirdly like matte sunburst and it's the kind of watch where there's never a bad scenario for it. Now the, the black base have the chronometer certified movements inside which is great. You know they no longer have the sort of the smiley face dials. It's got the T fit clasp if I'm not mistaken. So you're Getting T fit 36 millimeter on basically Tudor's version of a jubilee. Just don't tell them I said that. And, and you're, you're kind of like you're working with a great watch at that point. And, and that works in dressy environs, it works in sporty environs. You're. It's the kind of piece where you're not breaking the bank to buy it, but it will be with you forever in, in a, in a way that I think will make the watch that much more special.
- [56:16]
B
Yeah, I totally slept on the the 2023 update with the bracelet, the fancier dial and the T fit. That's a great choice. Awesome. Good call.
- [56:28]
A
It was my choice as well if I'm being honest. It's a pretty easy call. You know, it was my two if I'm lying. The Black Bay 36. That's good. The 36 was the first watch I bought new actually was the old gen of the Black Bay 36 with a black dial when it was an ETA movement. It's a great watch it's an entry into tud. It's an even better entry into tudor. Now, for all of the reasons you mentioned, Danny, the blue dial is the one to get. It's still half the price of a datejust essentially, so it's not even competitive with it, even though the updates were made to make it look a little bit more like an OP or a datejust. Listen, there's probably a purist that misses the $2,000 ETA watch that was kind of more of a field watch than these. But I love these because they're manufacturer caliber and they're updated and better in pretty much every other way that you can think of. The the one thing is it is 3925 so it's a little bit above the $3,000. So you know, save up for another thousand bucks if you need to. But if not the other thing I was going to mention is that I always mention at this price if someone's looking for something a little a little more dressy every day is is Nomos continues to be a great entry point. But listen, you gave us a $3,000 budget so who am I to not spend every dollar of that budget and then and $925 dollars more in this specific case. But if you only want to spend 15002000 bucks you can get a tangente. You can get a club sport, whatever it is. Nomos continues to be a great option for for everyday post graduation watches as well. So so perhaps we'll leave it at that. Michelle, let us know what you get once you've graduated. We'll be excited to to hear and potentially even follow up on these collecting advices should should it be required. I think we're going to leave the first episode of the new and revived Hodinkee Podcast there. So thanks for listening guys. Let us know in the comments or leave a review on Apple letting us know what you think of the new format, what else you'd like to see from the new format and reach out to us with with collecting advice. We'd love to to make that a regular thing towards the end of the podcast here. Keep it keeping it involved with the Hoodinkee community as well as talking about and having conversations about the latest news and watches. So stay tuned. We'll be back next week with more Hodinkee Radio next week and every week I should say.
- [58:58]
C
Tony, it's been a pleasure.
- [59:00]
B
An absolute treat for sure. Great to have the show back and pleased to have you running it. So excited to see where it goes. Sa.