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TAG Heuer, A. Lange & Sohne, JLC, Chopard, and More | Hodinkee Podcast | Watches and Wonders - Day 3
00:27:01
Tim, TanTan, and Andy chat about a fascinating collection of vintage Tudor watches before getting into the latest from TAG Heuer, JLC, Chopard, and more.
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- [00:01]
Podcast Host
Discover the new chapter of Octo Finissimo. From ultralight titanium to the warmth of 18 karat yellow gold, the new 37 millimeter profile is the definition of Italian sprezzatura. Thanks so much to Bulgari and back to the show.
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Jack Forster
Day three Hodinkee podcast. We're here with Andy Hoffman. Tan, tan wing. How we doing, guys?
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Tan Tan
Oh, you know, it's a busy show, but here we are.
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Jack Forster
Here we are indeed.
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Andy Hoffman
Feeling it, feeling it, Feeling it big time.
- [00:26]
Jack Forster
Gosh. Okay, that's going to be a meme later. So someone dialed that up, guys. You know, obviously we're at the PAL Expo, but a lot of. And we'll get to what we've been covering in a minute, but first, there's a lot of action happening outside the Powell Expo. Dinners, parties, just mingling around town. I want to hear about what you guys have been up to. Andy, what'd you get into last night?
- [00:46]
Andy Hoffman
Well, I managed to get out of the PAL Expo later, early in the evening. I got to go over to TUDOR last night and. And I've never seen anything like this. It was a collection, probably the greatest collection of vintage Tudors that one could ever hope to see. What the brand had done had sort of got together various collections from various collectors, brought them all together here during the Watches and Wonders week. And a few select people got to take a look at this. Just extraordinary collections from around the world. Some extraordinary subs, lots of ancient chronographs, some very interesting sort of military watches. I mean, you know, it was a real showcase for the brand. And at a year when Tudor is, you know, doing some great stuff with their new stuff. But, I mean, you know, some very important people dropped by, you know, some executives from the big brother company. It was very well attended and, you know, just full of super enthusiasts. The greatest collection of vintage Tudors all together in one room that one could ever hope for.
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Jack Forster
Absolutely. I was there as well. And the energy there, I really felt it. The collector community bringing out all these amazing references, some rarely seen. It was a great night. Tan Tan, what about you? What'd you get into last night?
- [02:18]
Tan Tan
I feel like the dinner I went to yesterday was pretty much the polar opposite. There were basically no watches, and it's kind of by design. So every year, Lange does sort of a Friends of Lange dinner. And it's a little different from a lot of the other events that brands will host where maybe you'll have dinners that are PR focused, you'll have dinners that are client focused. What Lange does is it Kind of bring a few of each together so you have a few collectors with obviously the, the craziest Lange as you'll ever kind of see. So I guess there were some watches there. You'll have some press throughout, kind of all around the world. And you'll have obviously a lot of sort of friends of the brand, even from other watchmakers. And I think that's a really cool thing. But what Lange really wants to do is basically host a dinner that's just. We don't talk about watches, right? We don't talk about Lange, we don't talk about anything. And it's just a really nice chill thing to kind of reset the week. You know, you come to the PAL Expo every single day and there's just so much to see. And I think it's a good time to kind of decompress.
- [03:14]
Jack Forster
I love the idea behind that. I love the idea of just kind of getting outside of the PAL Expo, talking, talking with collectors, not about watches. Because I think that's, that's one of my personal favorite things about the industry is the relationships that I personally formed. We all formed with folks in the industry. I think that's a perfect segue to get into Lange.
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Tan Tan
Yeah.
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Jack Forster
Tan San, can you walk us through what Lange's up to this year?
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Tan Tan
Yeah, yeah. I mean, Lange always kind of hits the show with sort of a very small quantity of novelties every year compared to, I would say most brands. You know, some years they've only done one new thing and this year they've really done two products that I think cover the whole spectrum of kind of what the brand's really good at. Right. So you have the Halo product, which is the Lange 1 perpetual calendar, tourbillon lumen. Right. It's a whole mouthful, but it's a very self explanatory sort of product name. And that is kind of a balls to the wal, I believe, €550 ish sort of watch limited to 50 pieces. It's sort of the Lange sort of a Halo lumen execution. Right. That means, you know, sort of semi transparent sapphire dial construction. All out a ton of moving parts here for this watch because it's so complicated and you have sort of this really nuts glow in the dark Lange. Right. With ultra complicated watchmaking. And then on the other side of things they come out with a 36 millimeter Saxonia annual calendar. And I think, you know, sort of like we saw last year, there was a lot of crazy stuff that they did, but the 34 millimeter 18 15s kind of stole the show. From the collector's standpoint, I think these annual calendars are really, really what people are talking about. I mean, it's a great trend to see Lange continue to do new calibers that make for smaller watches. And having a 36 millimeter annual calendar kind of puts them where, once again, in a really unique position for a complication that, to be honest, annual calendars are not what I think of when I think of Lange. Right. But for them to come out with this product, I think is a really, really cool thing. It's very thin on the wrist. It's really compact proportions. Basically, the caliber was improved from the previous annual calendars. Those got discontinued a few years back. Now we have a new caliber that's smaller with higher power reserve. And also I think the. The best part, which is a pusher on the side. So you see this pusher on a lot of Lange's sort of complicated calendar watches. But basically when you press it, it moves all of the indications at once, Right. So if the watch wasn't running for a few days, as long as it's wound up again, you press that button a few times and boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Everything is set. You don't need to kind of fiddle with all the recessed pushers. So really, really cool watches. Two variants, two metals, three releases, three
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Jack Forster
really dialed in watches from Lange this year. That's certainly a highlight of my week thus far. Moving right along, Andy. We went over to Jajai Lecoultre yesterday evening to take some photos, to look at some watches. What did you see there and what caught your eye?
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Andy Hoffman
Look what catches my eye with JLC this year. Jaeger Lecoultre is the new master control Chronometre. And this is a watch that it's kind of surprising when we think about it, that Jaeger has not made this watch before. They are the watchmaker's watchmaker. Our first Nautilus, our first Royal Oak. Those were powered by jlc, Jaeger Movements. And Jaeger, with the exception of a Marine Master, I think it's called, we haven't seen a lot of integrated bracelet sports watches, really, from the brand over the years. Regardless, they've got one now, and it, I think, really competes. The master control Chronometre. It is quite thin. It comes in steel, and it also comes in rose gold. There's basically three model lines. We have a QP perpetual calendar in the rose gold and in the steel, and then there is a date and a power reserve, and then there's a time Only. And I think that the brand is saying here, hey, you know, we can do this. We can, you know, compete against all those names in the space. But it's just a really sort of distinct Jaeger piece. And, you know, I think the entry is around 12 or 13,000 for the time only. And it is really a compelling choice that people are going to have to look at. Much more elegant than a lot of the other options in that space.
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Jack Forster
What do you think that shift maybe signifies for the brand?
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Andy Hoffman
That's a good question, right? I mean, I think that basically the brand started making tools to make watch components, made its own watch components, made its own movements. And they're saying, hey, we're here. We have our own distinct design language. We're going to sort of double down and remind everyone of all of those skills that we have all together, you know, under this one roof. And, you know, here's our piece. It's the. There's a lot of firsts with the mcc. I mean, you know, it's the first time that they've ever had a COSC certified movement. You know, it's not something they chose to do in the past. They also put their own special qualifications on the watch that, you know, the testing beyond Kosk that they do. So, you know, they're really, you know, trying to remind everyone where they sit in the pantheon. And it's, you know, right up there.
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Jack Forster
Absolutely. And, you know, one of the things that caught my eye at JLC last night was these enameled reversos. And I found myself very interested in these reversos. Starting at the beginning of this year, I went to a JLC event and I was talking with someone there and she was telling me how these dials were made. And she said it was with a paintbrush with a single hair, and that is how it was made, how these artisans paint the back of it. And I was blown away by it. And I was sitting there thinking, like, you know, this is really important for people to continue making art like that, because once those skills go away, they go away. And so I was pleased to see this year that JLC kind of concluded their series of special reversos with three new reversos enamel dial. And it's a series. I'm forgetting the name, but it's a series that is concluding with these three. I think it's a 19th century Japanese artist. And the last of these came out in 2023. And these three came out this year's Watches and Wonders. And I think that for me, kind of writing about these and seeing these come out. Like, I think that the Reverso is a perfect place for this. You know, I personally. And please correct me if I'm wrong here, if you know anybody doing this, but I personally don't know anybody playing polo with their Reverso on. And so I think the case is primed for something like that. And I just love JLC investing in artisans doing that bygone era. It's not cost efficient, it's not good for ebitda, but it's good, it's good for vibes. And I think that, like, it's really important to keep those things going on.
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Andy Hoffman
It's good for. I want to do, you know, what animal or person's hair the single hair comes from?
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Jack Forster
You know, I don't know. I need to dive in to that. But squirrel. The squirrel hair. I'm getting squirrel hair.
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Tan Tan
Squirrel. We're getting squirrel from the peanut gallery.
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Jack Forster
We're getting squirrel from the peanut gallery. Got it.
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Andy Hoffman
Wow. Okay.
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Jack Forster
I didn't know Squirrel. Okay, good to know.
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Tan Tan
So that inherently implies that there's someone probably at the company whose sole job is to catch squirrels. For this.
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Andy Hoffman
I've got catch and release. Surely I've got many catch and release.
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Tan Tan
Yes.
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Jack Forster
I won't get into my personal anecdote about squirrel patrol. Let's move on. Next up was tag. Gentlemen, we obviously some new Monacoes. The Evergraph. What caught your eye there for tag?
- [11:39]
Andy Hoffman
This is a really important year, right, for them. They're calling it the year of the chronograph, and rightfully so. So I mean, obviously the headline is, is the Evergraph. This is a truly innovative chronograph movement. I mean, we have not seen something like this before. And it's actuated by a flexible. I think it's nickel phosphorous material which completely sort of changes how chronograph movement works. It changes how it feels. And obviously when you think of TAG Heuer in a chronograph, they want you to think of the Monaco. I think it costs about the watch costs about 28,000 USD. Look, that's a big price for what many of us think of as an approachable level brand. But this is a big jump for them in terms of movement tech and movement development. They did it with Vaucher, but it's really an in house sort of design and development project. It's been going on for years. And so, yeah, they're really making a statement with the piece. And then they're bringing, you know, a redesigned Monaco in titanium, which is the which is, you know, sort of the flagship piece in the line. The approachable. I think they're 11 10, between 10 and 11,000, all in titanium. I mean, you know, this is also a in house movement. Right. Which hasn't always been the case Crown is on, is on the left side. They are making the statement it is staying there because there's obviously been some debate over the years. But yeah, I mean, you know, it is a very focused and pretty easy to understand message from Tag this year. It's the year of the chronograph. The Monaco is their icon. And, you know, they want you to think about this watch kind of in the same. When you're having the same thoughts about, you know, an AP RD5 or something. Right. I mean, like, look, I mean, you know, they're very different watches, but we've got some, we've got some real innovation here and like, you know, chapeau to them.
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Jack Forster
I'd say tantan. Any thoughts on the Evergraph?
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Tan Tan
Yeah, I mean, I would say similar thoughts to Andy here. It's a really interesting concept to see. Obviously with the new chronograph design, you can tell that the Monaco is really the case profile that really works for it. What the sort of movement offers in sort of a unique way of activation and reset. It also means that you need a lot of naturally real estate. Right. And so the Monaco, given its rectangular square silhouette, kind of offers that advantage. So I think if the question remains, will they make a smaller epigraph? I think my interpretation is will. We won't see that, at least for a while. So, you know, the Monaco does wear larger than for example, the sleeker glass box profile. So I think those with smaller wrists might be slightly disadvantaged here. But I think again, as sort of the first iteration here and really a proof of concept that I think the brand is really inherently emphasizing is not just a proof of concept. It is a very commercial product that will be available in stores.
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Andy Hoffman
That's a good point. But it is. Yeah, this is a commercial product and they want it to be available for those who want it.
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Tan Tan
Exactly.
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Andy Hoffman
No, it's important.
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Tan Tan
So I think that's something to really take away here where we see obviously a lot of cool stuff and a lot of innovation. And a lot of the times the question we have when we write about things like this is will it actually ever make it into a product that gets on people's wrists? And I think Tag here is really making a point that it will, you
- [15:27]
Andy Hoffman
know, so you can do something once or five times. Good for you. And it's great and it's extraordinary and it's amazing to look at, but, yeah, can you make a commercial product for the masses?
- [15:41]
Podcast Host
This special episode of the Hodinkee Podcast from watches and wonders 2026 is brought to you by Bulgari and the octo finissimo. Since 2014, the octo finissimo has redefined the limits of horology. And this year, we the story reaches a new peak of maturity. Introducing the Octo Finissimo 37, a reimagined blank canvas of architectural precision that brings a new universal proportion to an icon. Discover the new chapter of octo finissimo@bulgari.com
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Jack Forster
Moving away from commercial products that are on people's wrists to commercial products that are on people's feet. Moser had a really interesting collaboration this year. Tan Sam, do you want to talk a little bit about that?
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Tan Tan
Yeah. This one is certainly right up Moser's alley. You know, like, listen, if I think about Moser, they're the ones doing weird, weird things, right? And it is not an insult to say that. And they are very proud of that. Right? And so this year there is a collab that I think certainly is ruffling some feathers, which is their new collaboration with Reebok, right? Like, what the hell is Moser, a watch company, doing with a shoe company? But what they've done is create two watches, two limited editions, inspired by the Reebok sort of pump sneakers, right? So, you know, you look at the tongue and, you know, you. You press. You press the little button and. And kind of they've taken that. And it's not just a new colorway on a watch. I think that's. That's my main takeaway, right? It's a new mechanism for winding the watch where you basically take a little button and you press it on the side of the case and that increases the power reserve. And luckily, for those who. Who see this as basically the most expensive fidget spinner anyone will ever own in their life, you know, you can't overwind the watch, which I think is good. You can just keep pressing it over and over again. Look, it's.
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Andy Hoffman
It's. You wouldn't want to do that, would you?
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Tan Tan
No. Can you imagine? Like, I think. I think this is a watch that isn't sort of changing the horological landscape as we speak. This isn't a watch that will be beyond a lot of retailer shelves, certainly because of the limited status. But again, it's a fun watch. Moser's done weirder, Moser's done crazier. But I think again, this is fun. And I guess the most important thing is these watches will come with the sneakers if you buy one.
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Jack Forster
Most importantly, most importantly, most important, also at Moser this year they released two new streamliners in 28 and 34 millimeters, the smallest by far from the brand. And I think it's a really nice offering from them and I think a step in the right direction of kind of, you know, as someone who's got a smaller wrist, you know, kind of moving in that direction. I would love it maybe a 36, 37 personally, but I think that that's a great sign. I think that they're going to be really popular as well.
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Andy Hoffman
Yeah, no, it's great to see them look, I mean at the same time, you know, establishing, emphasizing that the Streamliner is the flagship model and you know, it's, shall I say, I mean it's really their icon obviously. And this is not a brand that's been, you know, since its relaunch been around that long. But it's also great to see them doing, you know, keeping their sense of humor with the pump. Right. And you know, this is the brand that brought us the cheese watch before and you know, they are not afraid to be outsiders and shake things up. So. Yeah.
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Jack Forster
And for me sometimes it gets a little stuffy, a little like too buttoned up. And Moser is the brand that I think of first when I think of like they're having fun and they're visibly showing that. We wrapped up yesterday with Oris, one of my favorite meetings of the year. You know, some great releases. Tan San, anything catch your eye there?
- [19:06]
Tan Tan
Yeah, I mean obviously a lot of people are going to be looking at the Urus star. I think it feels like a watch that was plucked out of the archives. You know, when they say recreation, it really feels like a vintage watch in the hand. And I think they got a lot of details right here. Right. Like I think Oris is really realizing that their strong suit is doubling down in sort of the value based price segment. So I think we've seen sort of a move away from a lot of caliber 400 sort of in house products that are, that are much higher priced and for them to come back down. I think the bullseye big crown from earlier this year was an absolute home run. I think it was a gorgeous watch that I think Andy and I both really love and I think this one is going to appeal to those and I think this Aura Star most Importantly, has a really, really compelling story, which I think Andy is very familiar with indeed.
- [19:52]
Andy Hoffman
Yeah. I mean, you know, the star was the first watch that Oris was able to produce in the era without a pin lever escapement. Right. It could use a Swiss lever escapement. And that's because a Oris executive was the primary actor in terms of lobbying the Swiss government and getting this Swiss regulation, this Swiss law which prevented them from doing it, and other brands were doing this to get that done. And it just sort of reinforces Oris position as being a little different, you know, than a lot of the Swiss industry. They're in Holstein, they are a different brand. They have an independent spirit. They are true sort of differentiators for them. And yeah, I mean, we also saw the atelier by a quite young and talented new designer there. I think she's 24, the product designer there. And, you know, she really took that watch, which is, you know, it's a dress watch, and took out a couple of the counters. There's a second hour hand which you can kind of use like a GMT if you use the little pusher there. And then there's also a moon phase. Right. Which is like, you know, a moon phase is an interesting complication to me. It's not one that I think about and consider a lot. But it was just, you know, with this new atelier, which I think. I think it's in three dial configurations in blue and white and then a brown, which they're calling chestnut. I always like brown dials. You know, there's not enough brown dials bring more brown, in my opinion. But it's just really minimalist and simple and they're very transparent about, you know, this is a watch designed by a young watch enthusiast watch, professional watch lover for young people, urban living young people. It's not a tool watch like so many of the great pieces that we know Oris for and. Yeah, but it's also responding to the market and sort of doubling down on listening to the customer and the consumer and giving them what they want, which sometimes the industry is a kid accused of not paying such close attention.
- [22:21]
Jack Forster
And Andy, I gotta ask you, since you're on the show, what are you seeing from a business perspective here at Watches and Wonders? What are people talking about? I know you've had some great conversations with some CEOs. What are you hearing out there?
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Andy Hoffman
Look, I mean, the environment overall remains challenging. Obviously, the uncertainty that we've. That we've been feeling for the past couple of years remains. You know, if last Year was the year of tariffs. I mean, that's what I spent my entire week talking and thinking about last year. 2026 is, you know, about brands listening to the customer and finding value. You know, we, we, we heard from Cartier and their CEO, Mr. Louis Furle, yesterday talking about making sure that they were presenting products that were with the market in mind. Right. I mean, that's part of what the Roadster is all about. And this is a watch that disappeared less than 20 years ago, and it was introduced less than 30 years ago, and it was a very popular watch. You know, this was for many people, this was what a Cartier was, and this was their entry into it. And so, you know, this is about reading the market, thinking about the market, and making, you know, a commercial product. And the Santos Dumont that we saw was certainly an example of that. With a bracelet there. That's just gorgeous.
- [24:05]
Jack Forster
Last but not least, we have Chopard. I know we were all looking forward to that meeting today. Some great releases from the brand Tantan. What did you see there? You were really excited about the meeting.
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Tan Tan
Yeah, I mean, I love Chopard. I think their watchmaking continues to be some of the most underrated in the industry. I, you know, I'm a big fan. Collector stuff just got Luc from the mid 2000s. So kind of in that state of mind right now.
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Jack Forster
Show part state of mind.
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Tan Tan
Show part state of mind. I think, you know, they, you know, they, they have a lot of new novelties this year. But I think I would say to sum it up, there's two that kind of go into my mind as the collector favorites. Right. So I think first of all, Alpine Eagle xps Luc, previously in a salmon dial iteration, now has a new sort of what the brand calls champagne dial. But it's the most different champagne dial you've ever seen. It almost leans silvery, which I think is very interesting. Salmon is a love hate color for me. I think it doesn't work well with my skin tone. So anytime I kind of see, you know, a watch with salmon dial, kind of, you know, tune out a little bit. But here, this style is really unique. Of course, it's an Alpine eagle with an Luc movement. So I think that's kind of the best of all worlds when you're talking about, like a luxury sports watch. But again, I think the biggest thing is the introduction of micro adjust on an Alpine eagle bracelet. And I think this has been a big sticking point for a lot of people because the Alpine eagle doesn't really suit itself towards, you know, like half Links or one and a half links. And I think having the, you know, and having the ability to sort of just have a little bit of incremental adjustment here is kind of a game changer. And I think hopefully they roll it out across other metals and across other watches and I think it's a really, really positive development. But sort of the other thing which is also a transition from Salmon Dial to a different color is the 1860 Luc. It is a gorgeous, gorgeous dress watch. I mean, the Salmon Dial iteration has been a fan favorite for a few years since its introduction. It's kind of the best of what Chopard can do. Right? So it is a 36 millimeter stainless steel dress watch in Chopard's sort of loosened steel alloy, if you will. It is a gorgeous dial that's made in house at metalum with a gold base and really, really well done hand guilloche decoration. Right. So it's the same decoration and motif as the Salmon dial previously, but now in a really beautiful blue. I'm not really a big blue dial guy, but this, this shade, I mean, you saw it too. Like it is a really sort of perfect shade. It's like it is just saturated enough, just vivid enough. And I think again, like we talked about before, Luc, movement on the back, still one of the best micro rotor movements in my opinion in the industry. Gorgeous finishing Geneva seal. What more could you really want?
- [26:43]
Jack Forster
What more could you really want? And I'm sorry, that's our time for today. We could sit here and talk for hours upon hours about some great watches. Tomorrow we gotta. We'll have another podcast. We'll get some brands we didn't cover today. Make sure you like, make sure you subscribe, make sure you let us know in the comments what you want to see. We'll see you tomorrow.
- [27:01]
Tan Tan
See you tomorrow.