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HODINKEE Podcasts
The Business of Watches [015] Marathon Watches CEO Mitchell Wein Says He Has To Be Ready For War
01:23:23
Mitchell Wein of Marathon discusses the family business that sells 80% of its watches to governments and militaries.
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to the business of watches, the Hodinkee podcast, where horology meets high finance. I'm your host, Andy Hoffman. This week we're in Meran, Switzerland with a very newsworthy interview with the chief executive of Beauman, Mercier Bonain. Mercier is very much in the news at the moment. It's just been announced the brand is being sold to Italy's Damiani Group in.
- [00:26]
B
A move that's sure to reverberate throughout.
- [00:29]
A
The Swiss watch industry. We talked to Michael Guinot, the CEO, about the approachably priced brand, storied history, its place within the Richemont Group, and about reports the brand was up for sale. But first, I'm joined by a very special guest, Adrian Barker of Bark and Jack, the YouTube channel and accessory maker with their great straps as well as other products. And he's also the co host of the Movement podcast with Britt Pierce. Adrian is here to talk about some of the business headlines in the watch world and also a very special project that he's involved with. Adrian, thank you for being here. This is great.
- [01:19]
C
Andy, this is a pleasure.
- [01:20]
A
Yeah. Where are you today and how are things?
- [01:22]
C
Things are very well. This is an absolute pleasure to be on your podcast. I'm a huge fan and I am in what is right now sunny Glasgow, but I can already see the clouds coming in, so it might not last, this sun, but I'm very well thanked. How are you?
- [01:36]
A
I'm very good, very good. I'm super excited to talk to you and let's first talk about this very exciting project now. You've now collaborated on your first watch with the great UK pace brand, Christopher Ward. The watch is called the C60 Trident Lumiere Green 15 by Bark and Jack. It's a very cool watch. I've seen some pictures. How did this all come about? This is your first collab as Adrian.
- [02:08]
B
Barker and Bark and Jack.
- [02:10]
A
Yeah, tell me.
- [02:10]
C
Yeah, this is hugely exciting. It's quite surreal. My original plan when I wanted to do something in the watch industry was to start a watch brand. It wasn't going to be Bark and Jack. Bark and Jack was always supposed to just be a placeholder name. I was always had the intention of changing it and then things got a bit out of hand and I never got around to changing it. But my dream was to was to design watches and build watches and this was before this huge infrastructure around micro brands that we now have today. And so I was emailing suppliers and trying to get quotes and seeing time frames.
- [02:50]
A
What was the economic reality of Trying to make your own watch back in those days.
- [02:54]
C
Well, I knew I wanted to go eta. So I've got an email from et. Ask them what was the process, what were the minimum order quantity and timelines. I knew that they were shutting down supplying outside of the Swatch group, so I thought this would be the thing that I need to secure first. And they came back and said, yeah, we can supply you. The minimum order value was something around 250,000 Swiss francs and we could supply in three years time.
- [03:25]
A
Wow.
- [03:26]
C
It didn't matter about the three years time because I didn't even have a tenth of that to put into this project. But it wasn't just that. It was all the aspects of building the watch. Just realized, no, I have nowhere near enough cash to even get this going from a small standpoint. So getting to this point of launching this Christopher Ward was quite a dream. And it's really exciting to finally get to this point because it's been a project that's been in the pipeline for really quite a while. I think the best part of a year, no, over a year now.
- [03:59]
A
And you know, so first off, why Christopher Ward and why collaborate with them for your first watch? You've been, you know, a major presence on YouTube and in the watch world for quite a long time now. And so, yeah, why Christopher Ward?
- [04:14]
C
Well, I've had quite a few ideas around collab watches and I wanted the first one to be quite a punchy one. I wanted to come out quite strong with the first watch and I've got a really good relationship with Christopher Ward. Our first intern at Bark and Jack, going back about four years, is actually a marketing manager at Christopher Ward now. And he went from Bark and Jack to Christopher Ward, which I found is quite a fun connection. But it was getting hands on with the original C60 Lumiere. It was a watch that really spoke to me because it was a true proposition value. It was a truly regardless of whether you like the design or not, just factually, the stats, the performance of the watch is outrageous for the price. And I thought this is so close to being in what I perceive to be perfect. It's a slim, very deep depth, wise diver made of titanium, COSC certified movement. It's a really high performing watch. There were just aspects of the design that I would change. And because I have this kind of in with Christopher Ward, I felt in my head, I felt confident to go down and say, hey, I think I could tweak this and make it a bit better. And it wasn't Until I was in the boardroom with Mike France, the CEO and all the top brass of Christopher Ward. I thought, who am I to think that I can improve something that these guys, they obviously know how to design watches and build a watch business. So it was, it was very much taking myself out, my comfort level, the whole imposter syndrome. And they properly grilled me on my intentions and, and ideas around the watch which, which I quite liked. But it was a long time since I run my own business when I come up with ideas of things, you do it, you have an idea and you execute it. Absolutely. It was interesting going back to having to pitch something to someone else and try and get their buy in. But yeah, they're very much on board.
- [06:16]
A
Well, let's talk about the watch itself and let's talk about some of the design elements that make this, you know, the bark and jack collab. And I think, you know, it's clear you were inspired by some sort of, you know, mil sub elements here. The dial, the markers is a little different. Plus there's some quite interesting stuff that you've done with the loom. Talk about it.
- [06:44]
C
So there's a few technical changes that we've done, like the lume, the lumes using the next grade of lume from the original Lumiere because we wanted it to be brighter, want it to last longer. It's got a two tone lume, so the minute hand is green and the rest is blue. And then 0 to 15 on the bezel is green and the rest is blue. And that's where the name Green 15 comes from. And to get that brightness the same on both colors of lume, we needed to increase the, the grade of the lume. But the big thing that I changed, I feel is the perhaps feel of the watch. I really wanted to push it into being a purposeful watch. I grew up around military watches. People call it boring, but I have this very conservative look of watches that everything needs to be purposeful. So rather than having a gray fume dial on the original one, we've changed it with quite a deep texture. We've changed it to be a satin matte black dial or just off black. Actually, it's not quite true black. And so it's a very flat, very satin finished off black dial. And that then contrasts nicely with the matte black lume markers. And we've changed the shape of the Lume markers and the height of the Lume markers to kind of make it feel a bit more sleek perhaps on the dial. And so we've got different shapes to increase legibility. So you've got triangle at 12 o', clock, at 3, 6, 9, you've got batons. And then all the other markers are round plots.
- [08:10]
A
So which is 12 o'?
- [08:11]
D
Clock?
- [08:11]
B
Yeah.
- [08:12]
A
Unusual. Yeah. For the Lumiere. Right?
- [08:14]
C
Yeah. So previously everything was quite deep batons. And so we wanted to make it as legible as possible, so you can just glance at the watch and you kind of have a better grasp. And I guess that's the Milsub impact is that. And the Porsche design and their use of matte black and matte white within their dials. So it was really fun coming up with aspects from different watches that I enjoy and bringing it, bring it together. And it was. It was really interesting mocking up the design. I'm fascinated by design because I feel like I have ideas, but my execution is terrible. So we had all these ideas of what we wanted to be in the watch, but when we did our mock up, it was a mess. Nothing. Nothing was balanced. It had what I wanted, had the ingredients, but outcome was, was. Was pretty bad. And we sent that off to Christopher Ward and they, they worked their design magic and they took all the elements of what I wanted, but it was about tweaking the spacing, the sizing and, and just making it right. And the balance that they created is. It is just magic. And a big change was the bezel.
- [09:23]
A
Right.
- [09:23]
C
So previously the bezel didn't have. Wasn't fully graduated. This is fully graduated throughout and fully loomed. So the touches are just tweaks. And I feel that's. That's testament to how nicely they designed the original Lubier. But I just wanted to push it even further into being that utilitarian tool watch. And I feel like they nailed it.
- [09:44]
A
Yeah, very much a useful, purposeful built watch.
- [09:48]
B
Definitely.
- [09:49]
A
Very Adrian Barker, very Mark and Jack.
- [09:53]
C
So their designers were disappointed when they saw the. What we'd created. Oh. Is where's the color? Where's the font? No, that's not me.
- [10:04]
A
You have been called Mr. Boring before. Indeed.
- [10:07]
C
That's right. Yeah.
- [10:08]
A
So let's talk pricing details. And when is it available? I mean, this podcast is coming out on February 4th on Wednesday, but talk about where people can check this out and how much it costs.
- [10:21]
C
So the price of the original one was one of the big factors around it because it's such a neatly packaged product. This sounds like a sales pitch, I guess. It is a sales pitch. Neatly packaged products for a good price. This is a touch more. So this is going to cost 2. 2,150 British pounds. But the package is slightly different because we're going to be launching a new strap alongside it. And that strap is going to be included along with a branded UV torch because we have our logo on the dial that's only visible under a UV pen. Because I wanted it to be a stealth logo, I didn't want to take away from the legibility, but I also wanted our stamp to be on it because I'm proud of what we've done. So this, it's a stealth logo just above chronometer and it only glows under UV light, but it's not loomed. And I guess for the U.S. listeners, it's going to be just under $3,000. So $2,995. And that's without any tariffs or anything extra. That's going to be the.
- [11:18]
A
That's a nice, you know, important psychological mark to hit, I think. So. Good for you for that. I mean, last thing, I mean, on the watch, I mean, is there anything, you know, that stands out that you've learned from a watch industry business perspective in doing this collaboration and making this watch? I mean, you know, I'm sure you learned lots of things that you, that you didn't know. But, but did anything stand out on that front for you?
- [11:45]
B
It.
- [11:46]
C
It was perhaps a. I was going to say humbling. No, I guess it is a bit humming. When, when, when you, you build your own products, you, you do what you want to do. If, if you think something needs to be changed, then you change it. If you want it to be a different color, you make it a different color. If you want something to be a different size, you do the different size. And so it was interesting going in with a. From the headstrong mindset of we build what we want to build to then pitch that to someone else who. No, no, they have their own viewpoint of how they want things to be. And so it was interesting working with, with multiple people within Christopher Ward and pitching ideas and them saying, oh, no, we kind of want it to be this way. And then having to negotiate, figure out what, what can we push, what, what can we keep. One of those was, was the trident logo on the, the counterweight to the seconds hand. I wanted that to be a little dot just to increase legibility. They really. This is part of our branding. It's a dive watch and this is our mark for our dive watches. So we need to keep the Trident logo. And I disagreed with that until I got the watch in my hand and Realized, actually, no. The trident logo is so fine that actually the dot, the circle counterweight would have been less legible. I should mention the order window because it is limited edition, not limited to numbers, but limited. It's going to go live on the 5th of February, 3pm GMT and it's going to go, it's going to be available until 12th February, 3pm GMT. And then watches are going to be delivered from March.
- [13:15]
B
Excellent.
- [13:15]
C
So no limit on quantity.
- [13:17]
A
And so where should people go if they want to have a look and order the watch?
- [13:23]
B
Is it Christopher Ward's website?
- [13:25]
A
Your website?
- [13:26]
C
Both. It's going to be on the front page of Both. So Christopher ward.com or barkandjack.com but both at Chris Forward are going to sort everything out. But we'll have a link over to their, their website.
- [13:36]
A
That's great. Well, congrats again. That's really, it's really fantastic. And I think the watch looks brilliant and I'm looking forward to seeing it in the titanium. So let's turn to some business lines. We wrote about it a few weeks ago on Hodinkee and now we had it confirmed over the weekend. Patek Philippe will be rolling back prices for US customers by an average of about 8.5%. The brand says that effective February 1, a moderate global price increase of 4%, driven by rising costs of precious metals and gemstones, was implemented across both watches and jewelries. But in the US this global increase was partly offset by the reversal of tariff policies from 39% to 15% for Swiss goods imported into the United States, reducing The current suggested US retail prices by about 8.6%. Now, this is after raising prices in the US alone by some 15% last year, with total price increases there being about 22 or 23%. What do we make of this move by Patek in the US and is it going to spur other brands to actually, you know, change pricing with the tariffs coming down? Adrian, what's your, what's your take on the pricing is a big, you know, it's certainly a hot topic and something, you know, our readers are talking about a lot.
- [15:00]
C
Yeah. And I think, yeah, we often talk about pricing with the lower end of the price range in watches, but I think it's just as crucial at the upper end if spending 50, 50,000, 100,000 on a watch. Actually, it's probably more impactful at that price range. I think this is crucial because the US Is a huge market for the watch industry.
- [15:24]
A
It's the biggest single country market. Yeah.
- [15:26]
C
Exactly. Often drops between 1 and 2. Need to protect that. Patek and all the brands have responsibility to protect that market, because if they don't reduce prices and there's a huge differential between markets, then you will just increase luxury tourism. You will just push your buyers to travel to Europe or to Asia, especially if they can save 8 to 10% on a watch. That's a flight and a weekend away. And so suddenly your buyers are no longer buying in the US and they're buying in Europe, and that will annoy those who can't justify traveling. However, if you're dropping 50 grand on a watch, if you're going to save 10% by taking a flight and a nice weekend away, then why not make an event of it? So I think it's a smart move commercially to protect the US market, but I think as an industry, it's a smart move because I could imagine Brand X struggling with the concept of a headline being Brand X reduces prices because it's not a strong look, it's. Oh, no. Are these guys struggling? Well, we know Patek aren't struggling. We know Patek are very strong. And so it's them being the front runner for this trend. And I think it's an important trend. Price is. We are in luxury and these things are technically unnecessary, but we're obsessed with them and we want them, but we still need to justify them. So if the prices get. Get too extreme, then our minds will change. So I think it's a positive move all rounds, and I hope other brands follow suit, because luxury tourism can damage the markets.
- [17:08]
A
Indeed. Yeah. No, that price arbitrage is something that all brands have to deal with, those working on a global scale. So. Indeed. Now, this week, the podcast is about Bauman Mercier and talking to the CEO there. You've done some Baumann Mercier content in the past. I know you've handled some of their watches. You know the brand pretty well now. We've just had, you know, confirmation that Richemont is selling Bowman Mercier to the Damiani Group in Italy. What's your take on what does this mean for the brand? Why are we seeing this happen and how might this shake out, you know, for the industry? Obviously, Boman Mercier is sort of in a, you know, which kind of been in a different place compared to many of the other brands in the Richemont stable. And they've decided to let it go.
- [18:03]
C
Yeah, it's a very interesting move. I think it's a good move for Richemont because they seem to be for the other brands be pushing up their position in luxury. I think a lot of brands are doing this, but especially Richemont and Balmain Mercier don't really fit within that the category perhaps of, of where they see themselves positioned and it's, it's a shame, I don't know, it might not be a shame because, because these new guys might, might have a strategy. I know, I know they're going to be opening up single brand boutiques which I think would be a very strong position because Bomber Mercy have a fantastic offering. But it's unfortunately one of those brands that you need to experience to understand that offering. And when you're in a multi brand boutique it's, it's hard to break through the typical household names. Tissot, Omega, Tudor. It's hard to, to get presence there. And so the single brand boutiques could, could be very powerful and I feel like they, they've got such a fantastic offering with their, their Riviera range. It's on trend for right now. It, it should be bigger than it is and maybe it just needs a change in strategy. And, and that's I guess one of the challenges around these big groups is that they're built to make money and if, if product brand X is churning over a lot and, and they're, they're performing well, then cool. We're going to focus on that and, and allow that to, to keep going and support that. And that could mean that Bomb of Mercy have, have been left behind perhaps or haven't been invested in. So it'll be interesting to see what the strategy is and, and what the outcome of that strategy is. As far as I'm aware, it's this group's first watch brand in the category.
- [19:44]
A
Yeah, I mean they're a watch retailer obviously in Italy, but indeed this would be their first brand.
- [19:51]
C
And I feel like that's an interesting move in itself because if we look at a lot of the groups, the, the groups that have a jewelry arm and a watch arm, I think right now predominantly the jewelry is supporting the watches. So that they must have some interesting roadmap ahead for this. And I hope it works out well because it's a very cool brand. It's got a huge amount of history, nearly 200 years old. And so yeah, I'd love to see them be bigger. I think they should be bigger. They deserve to be bigger.
- [20:22]
B
And do you think though this also.
- [20:24]
A
Might fire the starting gun on some of the big groups? Whether it be lvmh, Richemont or Others so, you know, sort of reconfiguring their portfolios of watch brands. I mean, might this be the permission slip that everyone needs to start reshuffling things and selling off some brands that are underperforming?
- [20:46]
C
Yeah, I think in this market where brands are needing to be careful and strategic and perhaps cut free some of the weaker brands and unfortunately for us as watch geeks, I feel those weaker brands are typically the more niche brands. The brands that are perhaps loved by the watch geeks, the watch enthusiasts, but they're not household names. And I feel like these brands, for them to be commercial, they need the, they need the numbers, they need to be selling the units to the normal guys, not us. And so unfortunately we might see some, some darlings of the brands being up for sale and it could be a strong move, it could be a sad move. I just hope that the brands that we love, nothing about Zen here for example, that that was the last big brand that, that was rumored around sale.
- [21:41]
A
Zenith and LVMH have denied that the brand is.
- [21:45]
C
They have indeed. Yeah, and, but, but, and things have been rumored for a long time. But, but regardless it's, it's brands like that which, which I do hope someone with, with deep pockets come around and pick them up and, and sort them out. But yeah, I have a feeling this will be the start to quite a few changes.
- [22:02]
A
Okay, great. Well, let's leave it there. Adrian, thank you so much for joining me and congratulations on the new watch. Anybody who wants to see it can take a look at our story on Hodinkee or head over to christopher ward or barkandjack.com it's fantastic to see you do your first collaboration. So good for you.
- [22:24]
C
Thanks so much Andy, thank you very much.
- [22:26]
A
Excellent. Thanks Adrian. And so here's our conversation with Michael Guinon, the CEO of Bowman Mercier.
- [22:42]
B
We are in Meran at the manufacturer and the headquarter of Beaumont Mercier just outside of Geneva. I am with the Chief Executive officer Michael Goun who is joining us here today on the business of watches. Michael, thank you for joining us.
- [23:00]
D
Thank you Andy. And good afternoon and really welcome to Bony Mercier headquarter here.
- [23:04]
B
Excellent, thank you. And so. So Beaumont Mercier is part of the Richemont Group. You're in sort of the more the entry level price ratio for the brand. But this brand has a great history. It's been around for well over a century. You've been in this role for over a year as the CEO. But for those who don't know the brand Particularly well, tell us about the history of Bom and Mercier and the various iterations that it's gone through, how it ended up here at Richemont.
- [23:41]
D
Okay, so how many days do you have?
- [23:44]
B
It's a long history indeed. I guess we'll get the condensed version.
- [23:47]
D
So, Michael, let's summarize that if I can. But yeah, it's close to 200 years of history with a very strong, rich heritage, know how? And it started with a family story, A beautiful two brother, Louis, Victor and Celestin, who really were passionate about watchmaking, who created this company in a Swiss jura. And then very rapidly they expand internationally. So in addition to have this watchmaking expertise, they were also very entrepreneur. So very quickly back in 1814, they expand internationally in London, then in some markets such as India, Australia, New Zealand. So they immediately had a very strong success in expanding internationally. Then after Paul Mercier being part of the story where they met William Bohm. And they're really starting to expand, developing the creativity element while continuing to develop their expertise on the watchmaking, which was really part of Beaum Mercier until today, where we continue to innovate on the watchmaking, while also a lot of attention to design, to form. We are Amazon of form, as you most probably know. This is rich history. And then we. To summarize on few important milestones for Boehme Mercier, we launched the riviera collection in 1973.
- [25:23]
B
1973, yeah.
- [25:25]
D
Yes, was a very important collection.
- [25:27]
B
This is your integrated bracelet, sports watch, basically the Riviera.
- [25:31]
D
Exactly. Really the sport chic collection of Riviera. And we have, less than five years ago, relaunched Riviera with a modern twist, more contemporary design. Then we also had the Hampton collection, being part of the square shape that we launched in 1994 and more recently and we are very proud with our own movements, the Beaumatique movement that is today featuring 100% of our Clifton collection, which is a high end collection of Bome Mercier, very important collection and actually for watches and wonders. 2025 this year we have relaunched Clifton with a new design. It's the one that I'm wearing. And this proved to be, after a bit more of six months of launch, proved to be a very strong success. And it's a combination of strong automatic movement with our own bomatic, with a design code, with what we call a retro look and this we believe that the combination play a very strong role with the success of Clifton. So Clifton today benefiting of a double digit growth, we are very happy with that. And this was a lattice launch that we have did and release during Watches and Wonders this year.
- [26:53]
B
And so when we think about the product in the collection, the Hampton, which is a square shaped watch, the Clifton, more classic but relaunched and certainly focused on the Bomatic movement. And then as well as the Riviera, which you launched five years ago. Talk about the Bomatic movement though. And sort of, you know where that's utilized in Mercier products and sort of what it means for the identity of the brand to have that in house. Well known caliber.
- [27:28]
D
We have indeed. As I was mentioning, we are using the baumatic movement in most of our high end collection. Clifton being, as I said, the watchmaking line of Baume Mercier being very important classic, while aesthetically with precise code design. And the Momat we are using indeed baumatic in some of the Riviera which being also part to reinforcing our watchmaking identity. And then we have the collection called Classima, which is one of our best sellers in volume, being the classic design both in automatique and in quas. But we are not choosing Baumatic in Classima as we will keep it for the Clifton, which is a more high end line. And then we have the Homton that you described, square aesthetic, both on a different size, both for men and ladies. And it's an important collection historically for the Maison that captures both men and ladies, which is important for us as we have both clientele. And it's an aesthetic that are quite important for the maison.
- [28:42]
B
And let's talk about where Beaumont Mercier fits within the Richemont group. Richemont is a conglomerate of mostly Swiss luxury watch brands. I guess Baumin Mercier fits in a little more at the entry level. I mean, what kind of price range do you have and what kind of consumer are you trying to target? And what does your, you know, does that mean for your retail situation? And retail is obviously an area that you know quite well because your job before this was being the CEO of Time Valet.
- [29:18]
D
So obviously each maison has this unique positioning. You are totally correct that we are consider on the entry luxury Swiss watchmaking. The important element being our heritage. Very, very rich heritage and patrimony that is really part of Beaumont Mercier. We always want to play a strong role and even more now a stronger role into the segment of €2,000. This segment, around €2,000 is an important segment for us. We see that a lot of the industry has, let's say a change over this and has a lot of evolution around this segment Some going up. But in Beaumier Mercier we believe on the authenticity of the importance of this segment and we want to actually reinforce this segment into our collection, into our portfolio of collection. And this is very important and ensuring that we keep the motto of Bonheur Mercier being accept only perfection, only manufacture watches of the highest quality. So this is part of the authenticity element that we will continue to reinforce. Also having the fair price while continuing to develop the watchmaking at the high quality Swisstein pieces. So it's very important for us.
- [30:42]
B
So if I'm hearing you correctly though, you're telling me that it is a goal and objective for Baum and Mercier to remain though in that more entry, more approachable price level. Because indeed, as you mentioned, we have seen many brands move up, premiumize, raise prices, try to jump segments into a higher price bracket. Why is it important to serve that customer and that consumer base at that level? And then how are you doing that right now? Because obviously we're here in Switzerland, the Swiss franc continues to appreciate against the US dollar. You're wearing a gold watch, a Clifton right now the price of gold has hit levels that it's never hit in our lifetime. And then we have other issues like US tariffs which will be reduced we hope. But indeed there's a lot of price pressures, cost pressures on the industry.
- [31:41]
D
Yes, I think you describe my daily headache, have to say on the combination and to find the right balance. I just want to reinforce the authenticity of Beaumercy. We are not maisons that here for a few decades. We are here for actually close to 200 years where we see through this close to 200 years many volatilities and many different cycles of business and difficulties. Today we look at a long term view on everything we do not on the short term view. And what is important for us is to ensure that every single product we developed adds a fair price and being authentic on our value proposition. We, and not only me saying, but a lot of our retailer and clients, journalists saying that we propose a high value for money product. It will not be a commercial tagline for sure, but it's part of our authenticity. We want to preserve this element despite indeed very strong inflation in cost strong Swiss francs as you described. But we want to respect this authenticity and this high value for money without transferring this high cost necessarily to end client or retailers. So for us it's very important that we keep that in mind on the long term view. And we are playing and will continue to play a stronger and stronger role into this segment of entry luxuries with watchmaking.
- [33:24]
B
And we've seen certainly in the statistics through Swiss watch experts that this approachable entry level luxury watch segment seems to be under pressure. It seems to be where we're seeing, you know, the drops in volume. What specifically are you trying to do to appeal to that consumer and to translate that value for money that you're trying to convey without saying we're value for money, because that's not the way you sell luxury.
- [34:05]
D
Definitely, definitely. And in fact we see, and you are totally right, it's a very competitive segment, very competitive segment that obviously facing a huge pressure, but we believe that we see that as an opportunity for Boehme Mercier being amazing with close to 200 years of heritage, with hopefully keeping this strong authenticity and have always a strategy, reinforcing our strategy of fair proposition and developing and will continue to develop very strong innovation, very strong aesthetic. And you will see soon, during the next watches and wonders that we are going towards this direction of strong aesthetic, strong code, while not create or inflate our price massively. On the contrary, and this is very important for us and we want to surprise our customer, new customer. I think the duty of any brand is to conquer new customer, new. And this is what it's animating. All our creativity team, our development team, is to say how we can conquer the heart of new clients, new generation of clients, and create some emotion. We are a maison of emotion and celebration. We often being referred as, oh, I got my first Swiss mechanical watches, it was a Bon Mercier.
- [35:39]
B
It's been the way in to Swiss luxury watches for a lot of people over previous generations.
- [35:46]
D
Yes, correct. And we want to keep that from generation and generation because you see that it provides so much emotion. When you get something for the first time, you remember very well. And it provides not just a symbol of strong mechanical watches, but it provides as well a very strong emotion. And this is very important for us. So we want to continue to perpetuate this tradition of being the symbol of the watch, that being a symbol of emotion and celebration. Celebration, it's part of the values of Boehme Mercier through the years. And this is quite important. And if you have a true authenticity and separate emotion, this is an important element to make you hopefully a very strong success for another 200 years and more.
- [36:38]
B
You appear to be quite a young chief executive officer in the watch world, but you've had a bit of a long career with Richemont. I mean, tell us, we mentioned that you were heading time valet, which is the retail operation for some Richemont brands. And you were at Cartier before that. Tell us about your, you know, your career beforehand at Richemont and then how you intend to bring those things that you've learned and developed over the years in those roles and translate that into your leadership for Bauman Mercier.
- [37:15]
D
First of all, thank you for the compliment. I appreciate the compliment. I'm not that young anymore, but indeed, being in the watch and jewelry industry for 20 years and this is being very, very important. When you lead such important maison with close to 200 years of heritage, you have a lot of responsibilities to continue to develop the maison. So indeed the 20 years experience helping me through the understanding of the clients, the distribution being a very important part. Bonnie Mercier is a MA. A very strong distribution. We have close to 1,500 doors across the globe. So we have a very large distribution. So being around for 20 years, going through, when I went through and living through different parts of the world, Australia, Asia and now Switzerland for close to nine years, this obviously helping me to understand the distribution, the different cultures and so on. Indeed, being the CEO of Time Value in the past been helping me to understand as well the multi brand and the retail and the watch multi brand distribution being very important to the success of Beaumont Mercier. As I said, we have a large distribution, 95% of our business today being going through a multi brand watch retailers. So this is. All those elements are helping really me to build with the team the strategy of the.
- [38:55]
B
Because, you know, that's kind of different in a sense from what we see with a lot of other brands, whether it be Richemont brands or elsewhere, and that they're, you know, more of their own boutiques, more direct to consumer, less wholesale. You know, how do you square that circle when you know so many of your colleagues and rivals are shifting the way that they sell their watches.
- [39:21]
D
So we are very pride to be mainly distributed into retailers and multi brand. We strongly believe of the importance of this distribution channel into the ecosystem of the watchmaking and the Swiss watchmaking. We believe that it's very, very important. We do have a mono brand store. We have around 10 across the world and we'll continue to develop progressively mono brand store. But clearly our strategy really remain to continue to develop to increase what we call our client reach through multi brand watch store. Very important. We have launched recently a campaign across partnership. You can see that in Beaumer Mercier LinkedIn, for instance, that we kick off this project during watches and wonders. We have some top Retailers worldwide who play and will be part of this campaign and we are very proud to have them and celebrating once again, again partnership being very important part of the history of Boy Mercier. So we are proud of that. We are celebrating this partnership across the globe with new partners, old partners and this is, we'll continue to develop this partnership and this we believe, we strongly believe that the watchmaking need to continue to reinforce the distribution.
- [40:53]
B
And so when we talk about that multi brand distribution, primarily multi brand distribution, you continue to be that way. What did your sales and your strategy look like regionally? Where are you strong regionally and where do you have more work to do? Do you think you spent a lot of time in Asia?
- [41:13]
D
Correct.
- [41:14]
B
How does Baum and Mercier do in Asia and various various markets and where do you want to do more?
- [41:21]
D
So today we have a very strong growth in Americas, in particular in usa so very strong business, close to triple digit growth in this region. We'll continue to invest and accelerate in this region. Middle east, it's also a region where we see a huge potential. We are growing very fast. There's few markets such as India, I just came back from India where we see a very strong potential. There is this very strong upper middle class that growing very fast and we see that as a huge opportunity. We see as well the development of a multi brand distribution, nicely upgrading the experience of the client, upgrading their stores, time value, open a few multi brand stores. But not only we have few partners where we are very proud to work with. And this represents a huge opportunity, we believe so Middle east in particular India we are accelerating in Turkey. Then we have what we call mature market in Europe. Italy being a very strong market for us will continue to develop Italy and then you have Asia. We have Japan then doing well. Japan we have mono brand store operate by us. So internal operation in Japan that doing well. We are very happy strong with local Japanese and the rest of the world. Asia is a bit more difficult. China being continued to be. To. To be a bit more difficult. And we have Australia, we should not forget Australia where we're doing actually quite well there.
- [42:58]
B
Should we think of you as sort of average exposed to China compared to most brands? Less exposed, More exposed.
- [43:05]
D
I have to admit that we never been very, you know, strong in. In China.
- [43:11]
A
Okay.
- [43:12]
B
Which right now is not a bad thing.
- [43:14]
D
No, it's not a bad thing. We tried, I can tell you the many, many years we have been trying. But yes, we are not so exposed and we are not so strong in China. We hope one day we will be stronger there. But today really what is important for us is to see where there is a strong traction for the Maison, where there is strong growth. America and in particular USA being a very important market, that growing these new opportunities every day, developing a very solid performance partnership with strong and qualitative distribution being very important for us. And this is one of our top priority.
- [43:56]
B
Is the US your biggest market?
- [43:58]
D
Is one of the biggest.
- [44:00]
B
And is it continuing to grow faster than others?
- [44:05]
D
I assume? Yes. The two markets that growth really has the highest growth being Americas and Middle East.
- [44:12]
B
And Middle east, yeah.
- [44:13]
D
We have benefiting of the highest growth.
- [44:15]
B
And India, you mentioned India and you know, people have long talked about India as a, you know, having great growth potential. India is getting richer. There is indeed this development of this new hyper middle class there, but it's not easy to do retail there. They're sort of well established retailers and some under very underserved markets as well. So what have you been able to do so far in India and what is your plan?
- [44:42]
D
Yes, we have developing so far a very solid partnership with existing players with retailers. We still also, we are anticipating as well some mono brand development for Beaumertier when time will be right. But it's going very fast with the level of business we're doing there. And we see opportunities as a network as well is developing nicely. We see more and more malls, luxury malls. We see more and more multi brand watch stores that developing not just a transactional offer, but develop as well. More and more client centricity with experience. We see more and more retailers doing watchmaking class for their clients, bring them here in Switzerland for manufacturer visiting. We see more and more appetize and interest for the Swiss watchmaking in India, which we'll welcome. And we see that the market with the population and with appetite and the sophistication for watchmaking being a huge opportunity we believe for Bon Mercier, especially with the offer. We are very authentic. As I said at very early stage. We went to India back in 1814.
- [45:56]
B
You imagine quite early.
- [45:59]
D
Yeah. Yes, yes. So when we open our first office in London, we expand in India. So there is awareness of the Maison, strong awareness of the Maison there. So we'll continue to invest, develop both invest in distribution as well, in building the brand.
- [46:19]
B
What experience you have so far in that market or those kinds of markets, those developing markets, fast growing markets. What role can an approachably priced brand mark like Bauman Mercier, but also with great heritage from Switzerland, still considered the top watchmaking nation. What role does an approachably priced, an entry level priced luxury watch brand play in those kinds of developing markets.
- [46:52]
D
One of the very important role is once again to create emotion with the client and to make a larger population discover the Swiss watchmaking excellence. This is. It's also the beauty to be part of Bon Mercier being very authentic, high quality watchmaking that can make a larger population to discover a piece of Switzerland and art of Switzerland with our creation. So this is very stronghold as we want to play and continue to play to make the wider population to discover the beauty full of watchmaking. And this is. Yeah, it's a duty. It's a duty and we are happy to have this duty and take this duty.
- [47:37]
B
Right. Because you're, you know, at your price point, you're one of those brands that where people, you know, may acquire their first, you know, Swiss made watch. And it's. Yes, there's a responsibility indeed, indeed.
- [47:49]
D
And we're happy to take this responsibilities very seriously on this.
- [47:54]
B
Again, we've seen the industrial manufacturing of well made quality watches sort of been changing over the past five to 10 years. In particular in the last few years where there's other countries that are China, Japan has long been a big producer, but watchmaking in some ways has gotten more international, more regional. In some sense there are competitors from outside the traditional groups and outside the traditional names. How do you compete with those micro brands or small size brands which are in your same price point? How do you make the case for a brand like Beaumont Mercier?
- [48:39]
D
Yeah, no, I see. Indeed. And I don't think it's not necessarily new. We speak about it now, but I don't think it's new. When you look at the long. We have, as I said, close to 200 years of activities without any interruption. So we have been seeing a lot of you mentioned micro brands or new brands. What we feel that's very important for us is to maintain the very strong authenticity, a consistency on what we are doing for the past close to 200 years and continue to surprise clients with continue to innovate with a very strong watchmaking element as well as a design and to create this balance and have a long term view. As a long term view authenticity. And this is what I believe we are here and without any interruption for close to 200 years.
- [49:31]
B
It's been quite a sort of volatile, wild time for the watch industry. In the last three to five years since I've been paying close attention at least. And you've only been here less than two years, but you've been around, you've been been in the industry the whole time. And so when you were at Time Valet, you would have been enjoying the great boom in 2022 and 2023. And then the slowdown obviously came after. What does that look like for Baumin Mercier in terms of production and then in terms of pricing and how you've dealt with that boom and then the overall general slowdown. How has that impacted Baumann Mercier? What do we see with it? With your operations?
- [50:18]
D
Yes. So we see that post obviously Covid the huge increase of business strong also, which we see that as a very good and positive element, a strong interest of the Swiss watchmaking. We see young generation going to all the social media and starting to be very interested about Swiss watchmaking, which we see that as a very important development that is good for the industry. And when you look at the three years, it's a short cycle. There is indeed the normalization what we say on the business, but there is also a lot of different dynamics. And what we look at, it's more in the 10 years and 20 years ahead of us on what will be what we may call the new dynamics. You know, obviously we see a slowdown of China, but there is a very strong demand in the US in, in Middle East. So what is good is when there is a region or market going, slowing down. There is also a market that's starting to have grow very fast. So we see that as opportunities for the Swiss watch industry, in particular for Bonnie Mercier on entry luxury watchmaking. So we see that as an opportunity, as we see very strong, let's say, pocket of growth with those countries. And with the increase of awareness of the Swiss watchmaking, more and more people, more and more clients look at more precisely, not only just the logo, but more precisely of maisons that are very authentic. And we see that as a huge.
- [51:55]
B
Opportunity in general, a more educated consumer. Can you be at all specific about? We were able to have a glimpse at the books and obviously Richemont doesn't do these things, but the direction of travel in terms of revenue and sales in growth, say in the past year, I mean, you know, it's been volatile and difficult for most brands in your price segment. So.
- [52:20]
C
Yeah.
- [52:20]
B
Can you at all give us a sense of direction on that?
- [52:24]
D
No, I think as I mentioned previously, I think clearly some in the industry, few, let's say, of the competitor of brands moving toward premiumization of their positioning is not the case of Beaumercier. We want to play stronger in this role. We believe it's an opportunity to grow this segment. And yes, is what we see. We see few different dynamics between Asia today, Europe and Middle east in Americas. And hopefully we'll continue to see within the next few years continue this strong appetite for Swiss watchmaking in Americas. And we were talking a lot about usa, but we see as well mixing Mexico being really a very strong market currently exploring as well. South America being very interesting for us to tap and to increase our client reach towards this region. And we see those kind of opportunities. I was mentioning India, but I can also mention Turkey. Turkey is also an interesting market that are developing nicely in terms of retail. We see more and more very nice luxury malls developing with very nice offers. So we see that all as an opportunity.
- [53:47]
B
And then I have to ask you, there's been some reports lately in some Swiss and European publications suggesting that potentially BOM and Mercier is for sale and that you might be part of a group that's looking to do a potential, I guess it would be management buyout of that. Can you at all comment, is Beaumont Mercier for sale and are you interested in taking the brand elsewhere?
- [54:15]
D
I will not comment any rumors to you.
- [54:18]
B
You can't comment on those rumors.
- [54:20]
A
Fair enough.
- [54:21]
B
And so as we look forward, you're going to be at Watches and wonders in 2025. And there's been a lot of focus on the Riviera over the past few years, certainly as the whole world was looking for integrated bracelet sports watches. I mean, on the product side and on the communications and marketing side, I mean, what can we, you know, in the product side, what can we expect from Beaumont Mercier in 2026? We're almost at the end of 2025.
- [54:50]
D
Yeah. So who will be part of watches and wonders 2026? We are very proud to be part of this fantastic fair every year. It's an important moment for Bonnie Mercier to release and to surprise our partners, to surprise our clients, to surprise the world with novelties. We are planning quite a lot. Lot of surprise. Stay tuned and definitely you will be most probably surprised. But we are going to launch.
- [55:17]
B
And so you still see Watches and Wonders and watch salons. Gatherings like this is an important part of your communications and your strategy. You don't see that shifting or changing in terms of the order or seasonality or way that you convey your message in new products.
- [55:40]
D
No fair. I believe are very, very important for the Maison. Right now, we're actually at Bahrain Fair, which is a very important fair in Bahrain and we are participating, I think, for the two years in a row. And we are very happy to see that as a local fair targeting local clientele. Obviously what she's around being an international fair. Important. And we are very happy to be part of it. It's important for the watch industry and it's important for Bonnie Mercier.
- [56:09]
A
Good.
- [56:10]
B
And on that note, I mean, is there anything else we should be thinking about Beauman Mercier right now at the moment and looking forward towards the end of the year. Any other messages that.
- [56:22]
D
No, I think we are thinking about.
- [56:24]
B
With this brand and what you're doing with it.
- [56:27]
D
We are looking really for what? For watches and wonders where we will release some very good surprise on our product launch and we are looking forward to it.
- [56:39]
B
Excellent. Well, Michael Guinot, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.
- [56:44]
C
Thank you.
- [56:49]
A
And that's the business of watches for this episode. We hope you enjoyed. Please head on over to hotel where you can join the discussion and leave any comments or questions about this episode or the business of watches in general. Who knows, we might even answer your.
- [57:07]
B
Question on a future episode.
- [57:09]
A
Thanks for listening and see you next time.
- [57:22]
C
Sam.