Vacheron, IWC, Grand Seiko, Oris, Lange and More | Hodinkee Podcast | Watches and Wonders - Day 2

Summary

HODINKEE Podcast: Watches and Wonders 2026 – Day 2

Episode: Vacheron, IWC, Grand Seiko, Oris, Lange and More

Date: April 16, 2026
Hosts: Ben Clymer, Malaika Crawford, Tan Tan

---

Overview

The HODINKEE team returns for Day 2 of Watches and Wonders 2026, sharing in-person insights on the most notable releases, from the relaunch of Universal Genève to highlights from Vacheron Constantin, IWC, Grand Seiko, Oris, Hermès, and A. Lange & Söhne. The hosts dive into product quality, market positioning, “dream watches”, and quirky, memorable moments on the fairground, all while maintaining their signature camaraderie and deep horological expertise.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Universal Genève Relaunch

[00:15 – 05:45]

• First in-person impressions of the much-buzzed-about relaunch ("Polar Rooter," new bracelets, micro-rotor movements).
• Pricing Controversy: Price point “in the teens” for the compax stirred debate but justified by movement and finishing.
  • “The photoreuger quality is exceptionally high. Way better than I anticipated.” – Malaika Crawford [00:43]
• Bracelet Diversity: Four different bracelet designs, a feat for an introductory collection.
• Heritage vs. Modernity:
  • Malaika: “The Polar Rooter that I saw today is so much better from a quality perspective than what Universal was making in the 40s and 50s and 60s. It’s not even close as it should be, right?” [02:49]
• Maximalist approach to launch: Universal chose to highlight ambition by bringing the full range, eschewing traditional incremental roll-out.
  • “If you launch one product, you’re in that box. If you launch the Compaqs first, then you’re a Daytona competitor and that’s it.” – Malaika [03:20]
• Standout piece: Rose gold on bracelet Tiger’s eye, dubbed “trendy” but deeply admired (price “really high” but viewed as justified).

---

2. Vacheron Constantin: The Star of the Show

[05:55 – 13:18]

• Overseas Everest Dual Time—‘Cardinal Points’: Now in standard production, four colorways (green, blue, brown, white), integrated titanium bracelet, high interchangeability.
  • “If I was spending $40,000 on a watch… I would not have any competition.” – Ben Clymer [06:16]
  • Bracelet is a huge upgrade vs. previous LE; “three watches in one” via swappable bracelet/rubber/leather options.
• Overseas Platinum 2500V with Salmon Dial:
  • Downsized, ultra-thin, new in-house micro rotor movement.
  • “It’s amazing on platinum. It’s the best on rubber... so slim.” [09:13]
  • Seen as strategic for future elegant, small complications.
• Redesigned 1921: Subtle but important dial updates for a Vacheron classic.
  • Malaika: “Vacheron is crushing. The enthusiasm… from collectors is the strongest it’s ever been.” [11:12]
• Impact of ‘222’ Re-Release: Brought new energy and attention to Vacheron’s catalog.

---

3. Rolex: Day-Date, Jubilee Gold & Daytona

[13:51 – 18:12]

• Day-Date with Jubilee Gold and Aventurine Dial:
  • Unique gold alloy, diamonds, and a striking light green aventurine dial.
  • “I think people have been doing aventurine wrong … the light green is nuts. Would look awesome in steel.” – Ben Clymer [14:57]
• Daytona & OP Updates:
  • Daytona’s Cerachrom bezel “reads metallic” (an unusual feat for ceramic).
    • “The bezel, which is Cerachrom, really reads metallic ... those are glass. And that is really neat.” – Malaika [15:54]
  • Dream configuration musings: How a fully brushed bracelet would elevate both new and vintage Daytonas.
• Sizing Discourse: Team agrees traditional 36mm feels “correct” for OPs and Day-Dates.

---

4. IWC: Perpetual Calendar & Ingenieur

[18:12 – 21:41]

• Line Extensions: Focus on Ingenieur models and new QP variations in titanium and solid gold, plus 35mm expansion.
• Breakthrough: QP ‘Pro Set’
  • Allows backwards correction of the calendar—a first for IWC, removing a long-standing technical hurdle.
  • “Up until this year … if you went a day in advance on a perpetual calendar, you had to either send the watch back or wait a year… And they have fixed it.” – Malaika [19:00]
• Special Editions:
  • CERA Lume (full luminous case/dial/strap) “Halo piece.”
  • 35mm no-date pilot watch admired for wearability.
  • New green ceramic Ingenieur attracted strong appreciation: “Full ceramic watch and it wore really well. That’s a cool watch for sure.” – Malaika [20:34]
• Vast Collaboration: Ingenious bezel-based setting system—practical for gloved use and fun in execution.

---

5. Grand Seiko: Dream Diver

[21:41 – 24:03]

• New 40.8mm Grand Seiko Diver:
  • Long-awaited because previous versions were “just too big” for most.
  • “High intensity titanium,” “way overengineered clasp,” and GS’s hallmark dial finishing.
  • “That’s the sort of watch I could see somebody like myself or a Grand Seiko nerd going like, finally. There it is.” – Ben Clymer [23:02]
  • Blends Bathyscaphe codes with that “Grand Seiko-ness.”

---

6. Oris: Affordable Joy

[24:09 – 25:22]

• New Atelier Line: Entry price ~ $2,200, maintaining strong value proposition.
• Star Edition: “Pulled a perfect one out of a box from your grandfather’s sock drawer.”
  • Emphasis on approachability: “They still remain in that happy zone where a lot of brands have moved upmarket… If you want to spend more money you can... but if you don’t, they’ll still sell you something with a really solid, reliable Sellita.”_ – Ben [25:09]

---

7. Hermès & Van Cleef: Artistry and Delight

[25:23 – 27:22]

• Hermès booth: Universally praised for décor and creativity; fewer novelties but HOA Skeleton and exquisite marquetry dials noted.
• Leather Marquetry Lion:
  • “Everything they do is just sort of well executed, isn’t it?” – Tan Tan [25:46]
  • “Little lion made from 500 pieces of leather, by a human being … you go, how many are you making? Maybe two.” – Ben [26:30]
• Van Cleef:
  • Hosts consistently impressed by poetic complications (“oil, oiler floral,” “two people that kiss on a bridge”), understated watchmaking.
  • “I’m a sports watch knucklehead… doesn’t mean I can’t appreciate a lion made out of leather in a watch.” – Ben [26:57]

---

8. A. Lange & Söhne: Technical Elegance

[27:22 – 31:01]

• Annual Calendar release:
  • 36mm, self-winding, lauded for legibility and user-friendliness.
  • “It is probably the most legible calendar watch I’ve ever seen. Killer.” – Malaika [29:30]
• Lange 1 Lumen Perpetual Calendar Tourbillon:
  • Ultra high-end, luminous smoked dial, maintains core Lange 1 elegance.
  • “It is the most clandestine, under the radar megawatch on earth … such a chic watch… to a level of perfection nobody really gets.” – Malaika [28:32]
• Brand philosophy: Lange excels at expanding on its core while maintaining visual and technical integrity.

---

9. Show Floor Happenings & Personality

[31:01 – 32:53]

• Fun run-ins: Adam Scott (golfer, not actor), Tom Kristensen (“Mr. Le Mans”) sighted (with his own Le Mans watch), best tote being Rolex’s.
• On Vacheron’s collector momentum: “The enthusiasm… from serious collectors is the strongest it’s ever been. And I’ve been doing this 18 years.” – Malaika [11:27]

---

10. Dream Watches: If Money & Waitlists Were No Object

[32:57 – End]

• Malaika: Torn among the 2500V platinum salmon, “little platinum models,” platinum Daytona, and the new Nautilus.
• Ben: Vacheron ‘cardinal points’ Everest
• Tan Tan: Cartier Mist (yellow gold, diamonds, black lacquer)
• SECRET: The team saw an “insane” not-yet-released Rolex ("costs more than a home in Greenwich"), left undisclosed [34:30-34:38].

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You can’t really talk about something until you see it. And when I saw this, everything changed for me.” – Malaika, on Universal Genève [02:49]
• “If you want to buy a Royal Oak and you want it on a strap, like you have to buy a whole new watch … Here you have … the cloth, the rubber, and the bracelet—and incredibly interchangeable.” – Malaika, on the new Vacheron [08:00]
• “Now is the time to wear a sort of less flashy look.” – Tan Tan, on the brushed bracelet Daytona [17:07]
• “So easy to screw that up … That was a problem, for sure. And they have fixed it.” – Malaika, on IWC’s perpetual calendar [19:24]
• “They do what they do. And that marquetry on that crazy lion—leather mosaic—was pretty impressive.” – Tan Tan [26:05]
• “Annual calendar … is probably the most legible calendar watch I’ve ever seen. Killer.” – Malaika [29:41]
• “It looks like a Lange 1. Nobody would ever spot it … the most clandestine, under the radar mega watch on earth.” – Malaika [28:32]

---

Segment Timestamps

• Universal Genève Relaunch: [00:15 – 05:55]
• Vacheron Constantin: [05:55 – 13:18]
• Rolex (Day-Date, Daytona, OP): [13:51 – 18:12]
• IWC (Ingenieur, QP): [18:12 – 21:41]
• Grand Seiko: [21:41 – 24:03]
• Oris: [24:09 – 25:22]
• Hermès & Van Cleef: [25:23 – 27:22]
• A. Lange & Söhne: [27:39 – 31:01]
• Fairground Fun & Famous Faces: [31:01 – 32:53]
• Dream Watch Picks & Secret Rolex: [32:57 – End]

---

Tone and Style

The episode is irreverent, detailed, and highly engaged. The hosts’ personal tastes, inside jokes (like the “darling” reference and stories of luxury test drives), and years of collecting and industry experience lend an accessible but insider’s view into both the excitement and context behind the week’s biggest releases.

---

Bottom Line

The Watches and Wonders 2026 Day 2 episode is an essential listen (or read) for anyone interested in the direction of high-end watchmaking—from grand relaunches and iterative masterpieces to technical milestones and accessible gems. It’s richly detailed, candid, and peppered with both wisdom and wit—whether you’re hunting for a dream watch or just want to be in the know about what’s moving the needle in contemporary horology.

Transcript

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Discover the new chapter of Octo Finissimo. From ultralight titanium to the warmth of 18 karat yellow gold, the new 37 millimeter profile is the definition of Italian sprezzatura. Thanks so much to Bulgari and back to the show.

[Ben Clymer]

Hello and welcome to day two of Watches and Wonders, the Hodinkee podcast. I'm joined by Malika Crawford and Ben Clymer. We're here to talk about all the stuff that we saw today. But interestingly, as we were doing a little bit of prep, Ben brought up something that we have known about for a little while. It launched recently and Ben finally saw it. Ben, you want to kick it off with a little bit of Universal? Then we'll get into some of the stuff we saw at the fair.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah, product is great and you know, I'm on the little advisory board or whatever, but I haven't seen the product really ever, you know, in spite of

[Ben Clymer]

being like the final end.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah, I mean, really. I mean, I saw prototypes, ish. But they didn't have movements and like, really, like, you know, kind of work in progress type stuff. So I saw the full range today in downtown Geneva. And you know, the scuttlebutt on the Internet is like, the pricing is higher than I think people anticipated. To be fair to George. Like, he's communicated from day one like it wasn't gonna be a one to one competitor with Breitling. Like, why would they do that? Right. So the pricing is in the teens for the compacts and the photoreuger quality is exceptionally high. I mean, way better than I anticipated. There was a watch there that I really loved. You have something to say about it?

[Tan Tan]

Yeah, no, I actually. Okay. I did not think I was gonna go in and be like, enthused. The polar outlet, like the black steel, it's actually very sleek.

[Malika Crawford]

It really is.

[Ben Clymer]

Now, gold bracelets.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah, the gold bracelets are interesting. I made. I did a video with George this morning. Like, if you look at the collection, there are four different bracelets, like different formats. Right? Like, not. It's not just the same thing in different colors. Then they're all great and they're all like very elegant. And like, the idea of like, how many bracelets does Rolex have? I don't know, three, four. Right. You know, like, and that's Rolex. So the fact that they were able to engineer and design that many bracelets for an introductory collection says a lot. And the micro rotor movement on the polar rooter is an in house. Like, it's not a breitling based movement. Like, it is a new thing.

[Ben Clymer]

And like, if you hadn't seen the pieces, now you've seen them and you're happy with them. And people who haven't seen the pieces, and that's not anybody's fault, they're brand new. But people who haven't seen the pieces are unhappy with the price. Do you think that's because a brand new, like a new version of an old brand, has to compete with the secondary market of its existing stock?

[Malika Crawford]

That's always the way.

[Ben Clymer]

Is that what's happening here?

[Malika Crawford]

It is. And I think.

[Ben Clymer]

And if people thought the Polrider would be fine, $4,000 to $8,000.

[Malika Crawford]

The idea of, like, Daniel Roth, right, like Daniel roth in the 80s when Daniel was there, their tourbillons were based on Lamani Ebauch's. Like, the finishing was like, meh, by today's standards, whatever. And then LVMH buys it and we know what they are today. And like, it is objectively better in every fucking way. In every way. Like, the movement is theirs. The finishing is five times the quality of the lemania stuff. Case is better. Everything about it is better. But these nerds, like, oh, the old is better.

[Tan Tan]

That's a very different price point. No.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah, but it's the same idea. It's like, older is better. The Polar Rooter that I saw today is so much better from a quality perspective than what Universal was making in the 40s and 50s and 60s. It's not even close as it should be, right? I mean, it's half a century later. But I also think, like, you can't really talk about something until you see it. And when I saw this, everything changed for me. Like, it really.

[Tan Tan]

Me too. I'm not even just saying that, although it was a lot of watches.

[Malika Crawford]

So I asked George about that too.

[Ben Clymer]

It was a maximalist take on.

[Malika Crawford]

But here's the thing. And again, there was a lot of feedback within the little advisory board, like, ah, why do they launch it all at once and just do this? Blah, blah, blah. And what George said is, like, if you launch one product, you're then in that box, right? So if you launch the whatever, Compaqs first, then you're a Daytona competitor and that's it. And he's like, I want to show what we are across the range and I want to show how ambitious this is. Right? And I get it. Like, his George is obviously a very smart guy and incredibly ambitious and, like, what they're going to do. I believe it. Again, the pricing Take it or leave it. Right. But the quality is there and it is a special thing that does not exist today.

[Ben Clymer]

Yeah. And also like the pricing thing. And I know that this is like a generic answer. The pricing thing is what it's going to be like. They'll either find a market at the price point and they'll sell their watches or they won't and the price point will change. But the second outcome is not something that happens very often in the watch industry, if at all. But, yeah, I'm glad to see, obviously, a huge amount of work went into the launch and many years of preparation. And I think the thing that I liked was there's a very specific, almost scholarly, like, understanding and reverence for UG in the past. What made the brand great seems to be part of the way that they're telling the story now. But not just in a, oh, we used to make it this way. And then, oh, here's a piece that's 4 millimeters bigger, 8 millimeters thicker or whatever. I'm joking around, of course, but like, a lot of brands will tell you the story of their great model that people love and then offer you something that makes no sense.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah, look, they. I don't want to say the product they nailed and I think the storytelling, they will continue to nail the fact that, like, the Cabriolet is there, which is really, like, I'm a universal guy. That's a very secure tariff watch. Right. And the Disco Volante, which is a large. Which is a cool, really cool watch. But that's a pretty. That's like an Arrow Montanari, John Goldberger type.

[Ben Clymer]

Yeah, I'm not pulling that off.

[Malika Crawford]

Well, actually think you could. I genuinely do. But like the fact that they're referencing, like, genuinely obscure references on day one, but not just remaking them, you know.

[Tan Tan]

But that's quite trendy, isn't it? I feel like a lot of what they're doing is like a little bit trendy.

[Malika Crawford]

The only thing that I would say would be trendy is actually my favorite watch of the collection is in fact a trend which, which would be the rose gold on bracelet, Tiger's eye. It's a killer. I mean, the price is really high.

[Ben Clymer]

It's a lot of presents for a watch, though.

[Malika Crawford]

So the fairy who was with us earlier was there as well. We both independently chose that watch as like a standout. Price is very high. It's a lot of gold and four piece tiger's eye dial.

[Tan Tan]

It's pretty.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah. But I was product. Directionally speaking about the product like, go check it out. They'll be in stores in September. I think people will be shocked at how good it is.

[Ben Clymer]

Well, look, speaking of good product, that comes at a price point that it might have been hard to predict. Vacheron Constantin. If you know me and have followed the stuff that I've written about for Hodinkee for years, you'll know that they've essentially made a standard catalog version of one of my all time favorite modern watches, which was the Everest dual time from 2021, which was based on a watch that a guy named Corey Richards used on an everest bid in 2019. Now it's a standard watch delineated to the four cardinal points. North, south, east, west. So there's a green, a blue, a white, and a brown. Correct. I saw all four today. If I was spending $40,000 on a watch, I would not have any competition. I was delighted by this watch.

[Malika Crawford]

Great watch.

[Tan Tan]

How much is it?

[Ben Clymer]

$41,000.

[Malika Crawford]

And you basically get three watches in one.

[Ben Clymer]

Like joking, but not well in the LE, which was 150 units, didn't have a bracelet. This is a grade 5 titanium bracelet finished to Vacheron standards. So, yeah, it's $10,000 more than the LE from 21. Obviously a lot of people listening will know what's happened to watch prices since 21. I don't think it's that far out of line. I just. This is an immense watch. I don't, I don't think they'll be that easy to get. I'm not going to be in line for one. But I will forever be a fan anytime now. When I get asked by a random magazine or myself to go doing editors picks for like, Good Dream Watch right now. It'll be top the list for a while.

[Malika Crawford]

Anything on this one?

[Tan Tan]

I haven't seen it yet.

[Ben Clymer]

No. You didn't read my story.

[Tan Tan]

I didn't read your story. I'm sorry. There's 52 stories or whatever it is to get through.

[Ben Clymer]

You had to read an entire magazine. Stay tuned for that. It's a good one.

[Tan Tan]

Yeah.

[Ben Clymer]

I'm only teasing, Malaika. You didn't need to read my story, but Ben's also seen the piece hands.

[Malika Crawford]

It's incredible. Yeah, it's. I mean, it's, It's. They're gone, right? I mean, it's not a limited edition, but like, I just know they're gone.

[Ben Clymer]

It's so sporty. It fits so well.

[Malika Crawford]

Fits so well. Titanium. And I say I was kind of half joking that it's three watches in One. But like if you're in that price range category of integrated sports watch bracelets, Royal oak, Nautilus, whatever. Like if you want to buy royal oak and you want it on a strap like you have to buy a whole new watch. Right. And I know people that do that nautilus as well.

[Ben Clymer]

Right.

[Malika Crawford]

There's two different 50th anniversary Nautilus. It's the same watch. One's on a strap, one's on bracelet. Here you have the cloth strap or cloth leather, the rubber and the bracelet and incredibly interchangeable, like remarkably so. It's awesome. Yeah, it's just an awesome watch and I think they will crush with it and they should.

[Ben Clymer]

Great functionality, great movement, well finished. I like the colorway. Is it a lot of money? Yeah. Do I think that you're getting an exceptionally cool watch for your money also? Yeah. So I don't have a lot of complaints. They also launched a very, very cool take on the overseas in a smaller format in platinum killer. What'd you think?

[Malika Crawford]

That's a me watch. Yeah, the minute I heard about it.

[Ben Clymer]

The 2500V.

[Malika Crawford]

2500V. So it brings back a watch that came out with I think in 2019 or so. I don't know, we've written about it on the site but it used in the back in the day. It was a white gold watch, slate gray dial with the jumbo movement. So a JLC 920, whatever, AP 1121 or what have you. And it was an incredibly cool watch. And I'll be honest, nobody bought it because it was a time when like it was pre sports watch craze. It was like 60,000 bucks or whatever at retail when like the average overseas was like 18 or something like that. And you know, only people like me, frankly I didn't buy it. To be clear, I should have really even paid attention to it. And we brought one into the office. Our old friend Jack Forster wrote like a fairly in depth story about it. Like it was. It's a really enthusiast based watch and it's been gone for a long time and then they brought it back in a smaller format by a few millimeters with an in house movement, like a brand new micro rotor movement with a salmon dial. Again change the strap from rubber, leather or bracelet platinum, it's so good. And that watch like, you know, I don't own any platinum bracelet watches like that. It's amazing on platinum. It's the best on rubber. It is just so cool on rubber. It's so slim. What size is it 39 point something. 39 and change. So slim. And what's neat, and I don't think this has really gotten a lot of play, is this movement is going to be a foundation for what comes next. Which means they'll be able to make 39 millimeter watches, complicated watches, perpetuals, et cetera, for a long time. And I think if there's one watch nerd critique of Acheron as they're using, have been using movements that were designed in kind of that 2012, whatever era that are just larger format. Like they're just designed for 42, 41, whatever. And that just doesn't work with today. And so with this one, they'll be able to go smaller. 255 piece, limited edition. I think it's interesting because it's like a direct competitor with this 50th anniversary titanium nautilus. Also micro rotor, but like polar opposites. Right. Like Patek is using literally a movement from 1977. God bless. And Vacheron's using like a cutting edge micro rotor movement. So it depends what you want. Both limited editions, but great watch.

[Ben Clymer]

Yeah. I mean, for a brand that sometimes will launch 12 models like Vacheron at a show, can sometimes bring a lot of models to bear to come with just these two kind of polar opposites of the Vacheron spectrum. The cardinal points and the 2500V, I thought both showed really well.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah. The other thing I should say is they redesigned the 1921.

[Ben Clymer]

So true. Yeah.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah.

[Ben Clymer]

We will see that in New York.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah. And that, I mean, that's long been a favorite. I'm surprised I've never owned one. But they just changed the dial on it. But that's a favorite. For sure.

[Ben Clymer]

For sure. And again, kind of three very different kind of aspects of that brand.

[Malika Crawford]

Vacheron's crushing.

[Tan Tan]

Yeah. You guys are both like going on about how that.

[Malika Crawford]

I mean, this is the total aside, but I hosted an event for Vacheron last week in Miami that's probably somebody important texting somebody right now. Is that your phone?

[Tan Tan]

Probably.

[Malika Crawford]

And the enthusiasm behind Vacheron right now from serious collectors is the strongest it's ever been. And I've been doing this 18 years. I really believe in them. And I think they're doing stuff in a way that's really different than Patek or AP or Lange or whoever. I've got a lot of faith in the future of Vacheron.

[Ben Clymer]

Yeah, I think it's been great for them. Obviously, the two two, two, I think brought a lot of heat and attention from people who maybe weren't on their website that often changed everything.

[Malika Crawford]

Changed everything.

[Ben Clymer]

And we had the yellow gold, the 222 in the office a little while ago. I happen to be in the office.

[Tan Tan]

25 people have asked me directly. Oh, congrats. Or like, is that yours?

[Ben Clymer]

Oh, you were getting. You were getting heat in the comments on Wrist Check Wednesday because you had this watch.

[Tan Tan]

Yeah, I mean, listen, it was full, but we really, like, did a sort of quite good job at just.

[Ben Clymer]

Yeah, I mean, that one again. I've said this before and broke a record with the integrated bracelet sport watches. Them being sized is the experience. Closing it. And it fits. It's done. And that's why with the Vacherons, you can swap in a rubber or the textile strap and run it, but that 222in yellow cold fit me. And I just immediately was a different dude.

[Tan Tan]

You are a different dude.

[Malika Crawford]

Remember that time you had that gold royal oak in la?

[Ben Clymer]

Oh, yeah. Well, let's be clear though. That time in la, I had a B series royal oak gold, yellow gold with the gray dial that you said I could just kind of wear around. And at the time, I had a McLaren 720.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah.

[Ben Clymer]

And the day they took the McLaren 720 way, it was a press loan, to be clear. They dropped off the only Ferrari Zadino T in the States, a California Teas Kelly T. And yeah, it was.

[Malika Crawford]

You were a real vibe that day.

[Ben Clymer]

It was a problem.

[Malika Crawford]

And then you ate all those hamburgers.

[Ben Clymer]

I had a lot of hamburgers.

[Tan Tan]

I guess you had to be there.

[Ben Clymer]

You probably didn't want to be. I don't think solid gold watch James is a better James. I'm better at a lower wavelength.

[Malika Crawford]

Funner James.

[Ben Clymer]

Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Yeah.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

This special episode of the Hodinkee podcast from watches and wonders 2026 is brought to you by Bulgari and the OctoFenissimo. Since 2014, the Octo Finissimo has redefined the limits of horology. And this year, the story reaches a new peak of maturity. Introducing the Octo Finissimo 37, a reimagined blank canvas of architectural precision that brings a new universal proportion to an icon. Discover the new chapter of octo [e-mail].

[Ben Clymer]

all right, so the other one that we want to get to, we talked for a while yesterday about the Daytona.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah.

[Ben Clymer]

But there's other Rolex to get to. We did get to see the new day date Jubilee gold.

[Tan Tan]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Clymer]

With the adventuring dial Take us away. Okay, I think the diamonds might be a bit much.

[Tan Tan]

No, no, no, no. That's rude. That's rude. You just told me that you three different Ammans. So I'm like, sorry.

[Ben Clymer]

Actually your real identity is coming out.

[Tan Tan]

Yeah, I frequented an Amman. No, the Jubilee Gold. New alloy, very cool. Obviously we've seen other brands doing sort of similar mix. Sand gold, Honey gold, I Gold. Yeah, yeah.

[Malika Crawford]

Sedna Gold.

[Tan Tan]

Right. Sedna Gold. The og.

[Ben Clymer]

I thought it was quite magic gold. I feel there's a story here somewhere, or at least a list. Let's rank them all.

[Tan Tan]

Have we not done that story? Let's not rank them. I thought it was quite nice. It was bigger, like in my head. In my head.

[Ben Clymer]

It was in my head every day. Date is 36.

[Tan Tan]

Me too.

[Malika Crawford]

They always launch the new stuff in the 40s.

[Tan Tan]

Right, right, right.

[Ben Clymer]

The thing that I would take away the gold is very, I think very much what you expect from these other kind of pale yellow muted gold alloys. It's great. If you're in that market that the light green aventurine dial. I think people been doing aventurine wrong, going with like the night sky style. The light green is nuts. We look awesome in steel.

[Tan Tan]

They just do good stone. Like they just know tons of texture. Yeah.

[Malika Crawford]

Good color.

[Tan Tan]

The stone thing. They just, they're just the masters of that standard situation. And I liked the diamond indices.

[Ben Clymer]

So I was just teasing.

[Tan Tan]

What else did we see there? I mean, you already talked about a lot of this.

[Ben Clymer]

We talked a lot about the Daytona.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah, I mean I saw it.

[Ben Clymer]

Yeah, it's great.

[Malika Crawford]

I mean it's the, the thing that

[Ben Clymer]

you, the Daytona guy loves the new flashy Daytona news flash.

[Malika Crawford]

Right.

[Tan Tan]

When we saw that Daytona, I was like, well, I guess this is Ben's watch.

[Ben Clymer]

Well, I just saw it. I just went, well, I don't have to write the story.

[Tan Tan]

Yeah, no, we literally said that to each other.

[Malika Crawford]

The thing that you said very, very correctly and it's completely true. I'll say one more time is that the bezel, which is cerachrom, really reads metallic. And I was like, how could it be metallic? Like how could it feel? Because like Cerachrom bezels do not feel that way. Those are glass. Yeah. And that is really neat. The dial is super rich. I mean it's just, it's a, it's a me watch, for sure. I am wearing it.

[Tan Tan]

You are who you are. I mean we did see quite a few oyster perpetuals for sure.

[Ben Clymer]

And you have quite a fondness for the yellow, gold, green.

[Tan Tan]

I think the satin finish gold is so good.

[Ben Clymer]

The full brush.

[Tan Tan]

Yeah, it's so good.

[Malika Crawford]

So I have a story in the back of my mind that's already written, if that makes any sense. I know the five. The five things that would have made this Daytona better and that would be one of them.

[Tan Tan]

Oh, yeah.

[Malika Crawford]

Because Rolexes just to fully brush out the bracelet. Yeah, yeah. So as you may or may not know, there was a period. So like the Zenith Daytona that I have has a fully brushed bracelet. And around 1991 or 1992. Excuse me, 91 or 92, they started to do the polished center link and that's been that way ever since. And imagine they had like, you know, if they put that much thought in it, imagine they just done like a fully brushed bracelet on there. That would have been.

[Ben Clymer]

I love a white dial with a fully brushed bracelet.

[Malika Crawford]

What's not to love?

[Ben Clymer]

What's not to love?

[Tan Tan]

It's just nice. I feel like now is the time to wear a sort of less flashy look.

[Ben Clymer]

Sure.

[Tan Tan]

I don't know. It feels appropriate. I feel like it's come at an appropriate time. And then we had the rolesor as well for the hundred years, which Tan Tan seems to absolutely love.

[Ben Clymer]

And so when we originally covered that, probably an error in at least the video that I did, was we said that it was available as the 41, the 100th anniversary. Turns out that was what they were offering in their press package. The broader scope also includes a 36 millimeter version, which I think again, I don't know why an op feels like it should be 36. Day dates feel like they should be 36. Obviously they come in so many other sizes.

[Malika Crawford]

But do you remember the 39 op? I was always a fan of that doesn't.

[Tan Tan]

I think Davey, I think we have

[Malika Crawford]

one in the room.

[Tan Tan]

The white dial. Yeah.

[Ben Clymer]

Dave's locked in.

[Malika Crawford]

Whatever he has, our producer is that.

[Ben Clymer]

Oh, oh, this one.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah, 39 is cool size too, but yeah, for sure.

[Ben Clymer]

Yeah, I don't have a problem. It's just for whatever reason, I see the whole of those watches being 36.

[Tan Tan]

Op is 36. It's 36.

[Ben Clymer]

So the next one that we went to was IWC.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah.

[Ben Clymer]

And it was a lot. A lot of line extension, which is good. But obviously a big focus on Ingenieur. You have a qp, a new version of the QP in titanium tourbillon and solid gold. An extension of the 35 millimeters. But then we get into something that I think matters A lot, probably to big pilot people, to QP people. And that's the Pro set, which is a game changer. Hugely. A big evolution of their QP movement that allows you to much more easily set and maintain the calendar function on these watches. And it's in a much more approachable size while still kind of maintaining. Let's be clear, it's one of the cooler formats in watches. But not everybody has the risk for a 46 millimeter QP.

[Malika Crawford]

Can we talk about the IWC Perpetual for a minute? Just because I think, like, some people might not understand it. So, like, up until this year, before the Pro set, if you went a day in advance on a perpetual calendar, you had to either send the watch back to a watchmaker or wait a year to get to that date. Right. I mean, it was crazy. And as somebody who has set many a perpetual calendar, I do that every, like, every time. Like, I just miss, you know, I'm paying, I'm, you know, watching my kid or something. I was like, it's like a little

[Ben Clymer]

tiny pusher that has no feedback.

[Malika Crawford]

It's so easy to screw that up. You know, you just go back around. Like, it's not that big of a deal. So that was, like, I don't want to say a fatal flaw, because that would be doing. Doing it dirty, so to speak. But, like, that was a problem with that watch, for sure. And they have fixed it, and it can go backwards now and really puts it in line in many ways. With the ap, it's different. But remember how big of a deal AP made about their new perpetual? And this is. I don't want. Again, it's not the same thing, but it solves the same problem for sure.

[Ben Clymer]

Yeah. I think really strong product from them all around. And then as kind of the special Halo piece, we had the fully luminous case dial strap CERA Lume option, which is wild. That's in your big format. Quite a large watch, but it's fun. We got a fun video of kind of the Lume kicking off on that.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah. I mean, there were two watches at IWC that I would, like, buy that. I'm not saying I will, but I would, if that makes any sense. And one was the 35 millimeter no date pilot's watch. Yep, 35 millimeter, no date. Like, how much fun would that be to mess with, so to speak? You know, like, just redesign.

[Ben Clymer]

Sure.

[Malika Crawford]

You know, if you catch my drift. And then the green ceramic ingenieur, like, fully green.

[Ben Clymer]

You dig that?

[Malika Crawford]

I do. I mean, I like green. And like, you know, again, ceramic. We talked about it yesterday, but like

[Ben Clymer]

gold markings, gold screws.

[Malika Crawford]

It's a cool watch. And like, you know, you see that watch across the room, half the people are thinking it's an ap. And I don't know if that's good or bad, but, like, it is a full ceramic watch and it wore really well. It's the right size. Like, that's a cool watch. For sure.

[Ben Clymer]

For sure. Yeah. I don't disagree. And then lastly, they had, like, a working, fully production version of the vast collaboration, which is a very cool watch if you ignored it because maybe you felt it wasn't your thing. It basically takes the ability to change the time, the hours, that sort of thing, and puts it into the bezel. So you're operating sort of like a switch or clutch on the side of the watch to go between the two, and then you can turn the bezel to change the time, I guess, conceivably to be done with gloves or without the need of, you know, messing with a tiny crown. And a very cool thing. Just an interesting sort of aesthetic assignment and a cool connection to this space.

[Malika Crawford]

I see. I mean, you know, I've got a lot of love for that brand. I've had a bunch over the years. Obviously, we work with them on ours. Like, at any given moment, like, that thing could just skyrocket. You know what I mean? And it's doing well, to be very clear. But, like, there's a lot of stuff there that appeals to the nerds in many ways, but they also do stuff that is just fun and cool. I think there's a bright future there.

[Ben Clymer]

Yeah. And I think on the same vein, fun and cool or appealing to the nerds? We have Grand Seiko. You guys didn't make it to Grand Seiko. I can't sit down and talk about the watches I saw today and not talk about the new Grand Seiko divers.

[Malika Crawford]

People love that watch, dude.

[Ben Clymer]

It's like if you're. Especially if you're a Seiko nerd who climbed the ladder up to Marine Masters 8L series movements, you're almost at a Grand Seiko. And then the next watch, which is beautiful, is just too big. It's 44 or bigger. Now we have 40.8 millimeters. It's nice and thin. It wears very similarly in my mind to my Pelagos. I actually think it wears thinner because the case kind of pulls into the bezel. And It's a Pelagos 39, which is also titanium. This is their high intensity titanium. So it weighs very little. It's very scratch resistant. The dials are very Grand Seiko. So it doesn't read the code of a dive watch necessarily. But I was delighted by it. It's one of the ones where I really wish I could have popped out a screwdriver and like sized it because the clasp is way over engineered. It's Grand Seiko stuff. Like they're doing neat stuff. It's in like the $12,000 range. So it's a proper Grand Seiko price.

[Malika Crawford]

Was it, was it darling?

[Ben Clymer]

I wouldn't say it was darling. It's tough. Darling's a high bar.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah, I get that.

[Ben Clymer]

You know, you get inside joke. Don't you get a couple.

[Tan Tan]

Is this. Yeah, I was, I will say, I heard him say it. Maybe like 15.

[Ben Clymer]

Yeah, it comes around. I probably said about the 222 solid gold. That was a barreling one.

[Tan Tan]

Yeah.

[Ben Clymer]

But that's the sort of watch that I could see somebody like myself or a Grand Seiko nerd going like, finally. Yeah, right, like, yeah, there it is.

[Malika Crawford]

That. That hit the right note for sure.

[Ben Clymer]

So kudos to them. They've got a handful of really beautiful, you know, very fine of the VFA stuff and, and that movement is also in the Grand Seiko diver. So we'll have more on that. I shot all the photos, so stay tuned in the next couple of days for a closer look at that. Really impressed by that one. It kind of. The weird thing is that I couldn't shake it. And it's wild because you guys didn't get to see. So it doesn't communicate that well. But it's almost like Grand Seiko made a bathyscaphe. It has like certain codes. It has this very tonal darkness to it. Matted sort of muted presence. But then like the bathyscaphe, you have applied markers and you know, some embellishments on the bezel and that sort of thing and it kind of, it struck that similar tone and yeah, I think at least in that light and certainly within the way that Grand Seiko has been operating the last little while, it made sense to us.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah, that's a winner for sure.

[Ben Clymer]

Good product. After that we went to Oris.

[Malika Crawford]

I love Oris.

[Ben Clymer]

Yeah, for sure. I just, you know, we saw the comments from yesterday's episode. I know that we talked about some very expensive watches and said that they weren't that expensive or at least worth it or we understood the price, et cetera. Oris, on the other hand, we sat down and they said we were Looking to expand on what we already knew was working, but really focusing on keeping an accessible price point. So they're announcing essentially a new entry level model at about 2200 bucks. That's an extension, a downward extension, if you will, of the atelier line. But the one that I really enjoyed was the Star edition, which is like a one to one recreation of a watch that Oris has made, you know, well back in their history at a time when they had to conform to like a standard from the Swiss government. And it's like you pulled a perfect one out of a box from your grandfather's, you know, sock drawer or something. It's small. The pricing felt very fair. You wear it on a strap. You know, it's aus. They make good product that people really like to buy. And I think they still remain in that sort of happy zone where a lot of brands have moved up market in the last decade and they've just kind of stuck where if you want to spend more money, you can go in house with their movements, get bigger power reserves, complications. But if you don't, they'll still sell you something with a really solid, reliable solita, and you just get a nice

[Malika Crawford]

little watch to wear.

[Tan Tan]

Should we talk about the lion?

[Ben Clymer]

Oh, the lion of Hermes.

[Malika Crawford]

Most beautiful booth in the show by far. I think it's Hermes. It's the best.

[Tan Tan]

Best art directed booth.

[Malika Crawford]

Nope. Yeah, it's Hermes.

[Tan Tan]

I mean, I don't know. They had fewer novelties than they've brought out in the past, but I think they're really focusing on the HOA skeleton, which is kind of neat.

[Malika Crawford]

Tan, tan. Loves that one.

[Tan Tan]

Tan, tan. He loves Hermes. I don't know. Everything they do is just sort of well executed, isn't it?

[Ben Clymer]

And it's all done exactly the way they would do sometimes not the way anybody else does.

[Tan Tan]

They don't care about what other people are doing.

[Malika Crawford]

They really don't.

[Tan Tan]

They really do not. They do what they do. And that marquetry on that crazy lion.

[Malika Crawford]

Leather marketry.

[Tan Tan]

Leather market tree, sorry, leather mosaic marquetry was pretty impressive. And you got kicks out of that, for sure.

[Ben Clymer]

Yeah, I like that kind of stuff. I mean, like. Oh, absolutely. But like, you know, it's like you and I have this kind of running conversation for the last several years with Van Cleef.

[Tan Tan]

Yeah.

[Ben Clymer]

And I'm not gonna be a Van Cleef buyer, but anything they make delights me.

[Tan Tan]

You delight. It delights you.

[Ben Clymer]

They're so interesting and beautiful and everything feels like it should be in a museum. And Then you see somebody where they go, oh, it's a pendant. But this little lion that's on the pendant is made from 500 some odd pieces of leather that are carefully placed. And you go by a human being and you go, how many are you making those? They're like maybe two. You're like, okay, okay, cool. Yeah.

[Tan Tan]

I just think everything they do is pretty neat. And even if it's like not always my taste, I respect the taste.

[Malika Crawford]

That's our man.

[Tan Tan]

Yeah.

[Ben Clymer]

I'm a sports watch knucklehead. I always will be. Doesn't mean I can't appreciate a lion made out of leather in a watch.

[Tan Tan]

Inside of that sounds so insane. Like, zoom out and listen to that.

[Ben Clymer]

The artistry is existing and. And that's why, like the oil, the oiler floral will always be something I find fascinating.

[Tan Tan]

I love that. It's pretty amazing. Who thought of that?

[Ben Clymer]

And then who figured out how to make it? You tell time with flowers opening and closing in a little garden on your wrist.

[Tan Tan]

They also do really have some serious watchmaking going on at vca, but they like don't really communicate that part, which is pretty chic.

[Ben Clymer]

Sometimes they just talk about how the watch has two people that kiss on a bridge.

[Tan Tan]

Yeah, yeah. They're like, it's about. It's about the poetry of time. Okay.

[Ben Clymer]

At something of a polar. Well, not even a polar opposite, just a different take on a similar idea. We land at Lange, which we just left, and we have a great new take in a great size for an annual calendar, which I think will be really solid product for them. A complication that people really like. Annual calendars being somewhat more approachable than perpetual calendars, both for price reasons and for reasons that IWC has sorted this year. But then we kind of go the full Monty when it comes to Lange with the Lange 1 Lumen Perpetual Calendar Tourbillon. Yeah.

[Malika Crawford]

Self winding. Lange 2 watches. Two different watches, which I kind of respect. It's like we're just not gonna play the game, you know, like one big, one small, literally. And we'll do the rest later. I respect the lumen. I don't own any lumens. It's not my thing.

[Tan Tan]

You're not a lumen guy?

[Malika Crawford]

No, this is a little too technical, like a little too nerdy for me, you know, I love Lange, as you know, but it's just a. It's like one step too far. Having said that, they're their most in demand, like, you know, collectible watches. The new one that reference the non lumen Version of it has long been the watch. I may have said this already that like, I imagine, like, if I ever like really made it, I'm talking like really made it, I would wear. Because it's a self winding perpetual calendar tourbillon that nobody like. It looks like a Lange one. It's just a larger Lange one. Nobody would ever spot it. I mean, it is the most kind of clandestine, under the radar mega watch on earth. I know one or two people that own them. I'm sorry, It's a sleeper. It's a sleeper. Yeah. And I just think it's such a chic watch. Like, it is just such an elegant thing that is done to a level of perfection that like nobody really gets. And then to make it Lumen, again, not my thing, but cool. But the annual calendar, we were just with some guys downstairs that are kind of in the watch world peripherally, but like consumers of them. And they were like, oh my God, I need this like perfect size 36 millimeters.

[Tan Tan]

They liked the size, loved it.

[Malika Crawford]

Okay, 36 millimeter self winding, which is, you know, makes sense for a calendar watch. You know, it is probably the most legible watch, legible calendar watch I've ever seen. Killer.

[Ben Clymer]

Yeah. I think the sizing strong, especially, you know, last year we saw the 34, 34 millimeter.

[Malika Crawford]

They can't keep in stock, which like

[Ben Clymer]

people really attach to. And it is a brand that occasionally makes a fairly large watch, usually due to something like complexity. I think the one thing that's fascinating about the Lange one with the several extra words that we saw, the Lumen, is that it really exemplifies something that Lange does that I think a lot of brands, other brands fail at, which is they can take the core and like a Lange one, in my opinion is essentially perfect. One of my favorite dress watches has aged beautifully, still remains modern and classic at the same time, et cetera. I like all the different versions and they can add to it without spoiling that balance. And when you. It's one thing to say like, oh, we added another time zone or a different calendar or maybe even a perpetual calendar with the peripheral, you can really make use of that dial. But then to also have the tourbillon and then do a smoke dial with all this luminous element and still from a distance you go like, that's along a one. And in the right light, you would miss most of the other cues. Obviously the date displays on the other side because it's automatic, which makes it look a little bit different. You could pick up on that if you were, you know, kind of a nerd and that sort of thing. But I think it's impressive the way that they can take a core and sort of expand it to be more and more special, more and more interesting, more and more complicated.

[Malika Crawford]

Who is the funnest person you ran into today?

[Tan Tan]

Oh, that's, like, no competition, for sure.

[Malika Crawford]

Absolute legend. Yeah. Legendary.

[Tan Tan]

Like, packing heat as always. And just, like, owning the longer booth as always. Yeah. Queen of, like, just queen of her kingdom.

[Malika Crawford]

Queen of not only that kingdom, but several others.

[Tan Tan]

Several other domain.

[Ben Clymer]

You know, basically.

[Tan Tan]

Queen of the Plexpo, in fact.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah. Yeah, in fact. Yeah, she's a legend.

[Ben Clymer]

How about you?

[Malika Crawford]

Well, I ran into Adam Scott, who's my buddy, and I just. I love that guy. Like, that guy just makes me happy because he's so nice. He loves great watches. He's Australian. He plays golf, so that was clearly.

[Ben Clymer]

He has a soundtrack.

[Malika Crawford]

He has a soundtrack. Yeah. And I mostly hang out with him in New York City. City. Or on a golf course. So to see him, like, to see him in my domain, you know what I mean, was kind of cool.

[Ben Clymer]

And also, just to be clear, just in case anyone's confused, Adam Scott. The golfer.

[Malika Crawford]

Not the actor.

[Ben Clymer]

Not the actor. Both really rad guys that apparently are into watches. But this was the.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah, this was the golfer. How about you? Well, actually, we saw Tom Christensen.

[Tan Tan]

That was funny.

[Ben Clymer]

Tom Christensen's probably. Yeah. I mean, I don't know that he's the funniest guy I saw, but he's cool. He's up there.

[Malika Crawford]

He's a cool dude, right?

[Ben Clymer]

I mean, Mr. Lamont, Tom Christensen.

[Malika Crawford]

What was he wearing?

[Ben Clymer]

He was wearing. I didn't ask.

[Malika Crawford]

He was wearing a Lamont.

[Ben Clymer]

Oh, he was wearing his Le Mans. Yeah.

[Malika Crawford]

I mean, like, that's, like, you know,

[Ben Clymer]

I guess I could have assumed. I didn't have to ask.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah, he was wearing it, and it looked awesome. And, like, you can't knock that at all, like, because every time somebody sees me or some, like, dork with the Lamont, it's like, he doesn't deserve that, you know? Like, this guy really deserves a watch.

[Ben Clymer]

Yeah, we'll. We'll put it in the show notes or something. You can. You can check out who that is. If for some reason you don't follow motorsports any extent, but it's a bit of a legend to see him just kind of, like, walk past you as you're having a bowl of soup.

[Malika Crawford]

Carrot soup, delicious.

[Tan Tan]

Best tote bag of the fair.

[Malika Crawford]

It's got to be Rolex.

[Ben Clymer]

Probably the Rolex one. I gave mine up. Mark. Mark, if you're watching, you've got our tote bag coming.

[Tan Tan]

He sacrificed the tote bag for sure.

[Malika Crawford]

One more before we end. Just because I got you guys money be damned. Like, you got as much money as whatever. Waiting list be damned. All the watches you've seen this week, what would you take if you're just like, that's the watch. Cartier Mist, it's called in White gold or yellow?

[Tan Tan]

Yellow gold. Diamond with black lacquer.

[Malika Crawford]

161,000.

[Tan Tan]

I think I could do better, though, couldn't I? But that's out there.

[Ben Clymer]

I go for that Vacheron for the cardinal points, because I know I would wear. I would wear it constantly. It would make almost everything else I like and have irrelevant.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah.

[Tan Tan]

What are you going for?

[Malika Crawford]

It's really hard. There's a lot.

[Ben Clymer]

All right, come on.

[Tan Tan]

Come on. Let us know.

[Malika Crawford]

What do you think it is?

[Ben Clymer]

Nautilus. 50th Nautilus.

[Malika Crawford]

The little one?

[Ben Clymer]

Yeah.

[Malika Crawford]

That's probably up there. What do you think? I'm not saying that's it, but that's up there.

[Ben Clymer]

It's got to be on the list.

[Malika Crawford]

There are four that, like, I, like, genuinely want.

[Ben Clymer]

We've been here for two days.

[Malika Crawford]

I'm not thinking anything.

[Ben Clymer]

Four new dream watches. I like it. Yeah, That's a pretty good show.

[Malika Crawford]

I really like watches. Right.

[Ben Clymer]

All right. Nautilus is one of them. 2500V is another.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah. Okay, so 2500V, platinum salmon.

[Ben Clymer]

So is it actually five on the list?

[Malika Crawford]

It's the 33,800. It's the little. Little tiny platinum models, for sure.

[Tan Tan]

Very cute.

[Malika Crawford]

The platinum whatchamacallit Daytona, Right?

[Ben Clymer]

Yep.

[Malika Crawford]

And then redshab.

[Ben Clymer]

Right.

[Malika Crawford]

I mean, like, you know, I mean, these are not surprising picks in any way. Like, they're just, like.

[Ben Clymer]

These are all.

[Tan Tan]

I thought you were gonna throw us some.

[Malika Crawford]

I was really doing that for you. I wanted your answers. My answers are boring.

[Tan Tan]

Okay.

[Malika Crawford]

But, like, just think of how good those.

[Tan Tan]

I was gonna say that, like, secret thing that we saw.

[Malika Crawford]

Which one?

[Tan Tan]

At the Rolex.

[Malika Crawford]

We saw a secret thing at Rolex that we can't talk about. That is literally the craziest thing I've ever seen.

[Tan Tan]

It's so good. And that's what I thought you were gonna say.

[Malika Crawford]

There's one. It costs more than, like, a home in, like, anywhere Greenwich.

[Tan Tan]

Yeah, but there's one we could split, maybe timeshare.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah. I mean, like, financially, I don't know that we could Oh, I can't. I'm not good for that.

[Tan Tan]

I'm saying hypothetically.

[Malika Crawford]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Clymer]

Well, look, on that bombshell, we've got ourselves an episode. We'll be back tomorrow with another one. And by all means, if there's something you want to see covered, let us know in the comments. And thanks for watching.