Chuck Klosterman, Our Close Friend

Summary

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Hollywood Handbook – "Chuck Klosterman, Our Close Friend"

iHeartPodcasts | May 12, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, hosts Sean and Hayes welcome renowned author and cultural critic Chuck Klosterman for a characteristically anarchic and meta conversation. Ostensibly promoting Chuck’s latest book ("Footballs"), the trio dive into football (the sport and the physical ball), moral hypotheticals, podcasting business, and the ethics of everything from workplace compensation to Star Wars kink. The episode is filled with running jokes, absurd scenarios, and quick-witted banter, maintaining Hollywood Handbook’s signature surreal, self-aware tone.

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Key Discussion Points and Segments

1. Missing Theme Song & Podcasting Meta-Humor

• [01:11–01:44] The show opens with technical hiccups as the hosts can’t hear the theme song—a recurring bit about the show’s casual approach to production.
• Sean and Hayes joke about their prolific output: main, bonus, and basketball shows.

  “What we’re finding is they don’t have the audio for the theme song, which is totally normal, totally fine at this stage in the podcast.” – Sean [01:11]

• Chuck, bemused, asks how many shows they do, underscoring the show’s chaotic structure.

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2. Chuck Klosterman's New Book & The Football Hypocrisy

• [01:44–05:31] Introduces Klosterman and his new book, Footballs, then pivots to Sean’s “gripe of the week,” a satirical monologue on the “hypocrisy” of people denying their “romantic vacation” with coach Mike Vrabel.

  “For me to have to look my son Vrabel in the eye and try to explain to him that this kind of thing goes on...it’s disgusting.” – Sean [02:06]

• The hosts riff on the fictional scandal, suggesting everyone is complicit and mocking the NFL’s culture.
• Chuck is caught up, asking if something actually happened, comically revealing he avoids the news.

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3. Absurd Football Logistics & Stewie the Baby

• [05:33–09:48] The discussion spirals into absurdity about football logistics:
  • Should there be only one football per season, per league? What happens if it’s lost?

  “What if we’re wrong?” – Hayes [07:40], pondering the single-football theory.

• They riff on the shape of the football being inspired by “Stewie the Baby” from Family Guy, with Chuck playing along with the playful premise.

  “I only spent a few pages on the actual ball.” – Chuck, on his book’s focus [07:54] “The shape of his head was what originally inspired the football to be shaped like Stewie the Baby.” – Hayes [09:14]

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4. Klosterman as "The Efficist" – Ethical Dilemmas in Podcasting

Segment 1: Obligation of Famous Network Faces

• [10:47–18:45] The hosts bring Chuck their daily quandaries, invoking his past role as The Ethicist (“efficist”) at the New York Times.
• Scenario: If a podcast network’s most famous star (alluding to Will Ferrell) has not appeared on their show, does he have an ethical obligation to do so, given their association?

  “If he has time to literally do two movies that are both called Anchorman...” – Hayes [13:22]

• Chuck dissects the scenario, emphasizing transactional relationships and questioning what the hosts would offer in return. He masterfully reflects the absurd self-examination back onto them.

  “What would be the transaction from the end of the men? Like, what are they? What would they provide?” – Chuck [16:36]

Segment 2: Podcast Producer’s Move and Pay Ethics

• [18:52–28:17] Next, they present a fictional podcast producer: wealthy, petulant, having recently moved from LA to “Pittsburgh.”
• Should the producer’s pay change to reflect Pittsburgh’s lower cost of living?

  “Is there an ethical obligation now this guy moves to a palace in the middle of the country?” – Hayes [26:31]

• Chuck parries with more questions, lightly satirizing tech industry cost-of-living debates.

  “Is this a child?...He’s a major child.” – Chuck & Sean [26:35–26:48]

• Extended tangent: makeshift pizza sandwiches, technical difficulties, and the producer’s idiosyncrasies.

Segment 3: Baby Yoda (Grogu) and Kink Ethics

• [31:37–37:02] Hyperbolic ethical scenario: If someone tricked Grogu (Baby Yoda, but canonically 50+ years old) into using force choke for autoerotic asphyxiation, is it unethical?

  “The term Baby Yoda is a misnomer. Grogu is at least 50 years old...” – Sean [32:17]

• The group riffs on Star Wars canon, the age of Grogu, and tricking sentient beings into unwitting kink.

  “For this to have, like, the maximum erotic power, the Baby Yoda has to be in some way tricked into this.” – Chuck [33:15]

• Discussion turns to transactional consent, light-heartedly but deftly examining ethical gray areas and media fandom.

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5. On Greatness: Football, The Beatles, and Podcasting

• [38:44–41:20] The conversation veers to sports metaphors, asking whether NFL quarterbacks map onto Beatles members, with Tom Brady as Paul McCartney, Peyton Manning as John Lennon, and others.

  “Brady’s Paul and Peyton’s John. You want to flip them?” – Sean [39:31] “Peyton was more of the technician... Tom Brady is sort of rich, you know…” – Chuck [39:44]

• They discuss Chuck’s thesis: greatness is not who is currently most skilled, but “the first elite rendering of something whose qualities still exist in the modern version.” – Chuck [40:11]
• Meta-reflection on their own podcast legacy: “Our best episodes are ahead of us.” – Sean [41:09]; the pair agree their greatest episode was with comedian Mike Lawrence ([42:25]).

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6. The Omniscient Octopus & Time-Travel

• [43:08–46:36] The hosts joke about Klosterman's supposed friendship with a future-predicting, time-traveling octopus (a play on the World Cup’s “Paul the Octopus”).

  “This is a super intelligent octopus who chooses the winner of the Super Bowl. Maybe is influencing who wins in the choice.” – Sean [45:12]

• Philosophical tangents about animal oracles, manipulation of reality, and the arrow of time ensue, blending sports, science fiction, and the metaphysical.

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7. Chuck’s Writing Career – Book Titles & Regrets

• [46:43–48:17] Chuck reveals he has another book coming in the fall (after Footballs)—a formerly “too weird” book titled simply “Rock.”
  • Reflection on Sex, Drugs and Cocoa Puffs title–originally supposed to be “American Minotaur,” but the publisher forced the change.

  “Now I have to live with this. That I don’t love the title of that book. It seems kind of...to me.” – Chuck [48:06]

• The hosts banter about advertising “make goods” and industry pressure.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sean on Mike Vrabel’s scandal:
  “For me, it's the hypocrisy...Any journalist, nay, any human being to behave as if they have not gone on a romantic vacation with Mike Vrabel. It's disgusting.” [02:06]

• Chuck, on transactionality in Hollywood:
  “It's kind of a transactional world, right? There's everything a transaction.” [16:26]

• On the football shape’s origin:
  “The shape of his head was what originally inspired the football to be shaped like Stewie the Baby.” – Hayes [09:14]

• On Baby Yoda ethics:
  “For this to have, like, the maximum erotic power, the Baby Yoda has to be in some way tricked into this.” – Chuck [33:15]

• On podcast greatness:
  “Our best episodes are ahead of us.” – Sean [41:12]

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Major Segment Timestamps

• [01:11] — Theme song technical problems, podcast count
• [01:44] — Introduces Chuck; the Mike Vrabel monologue
• [05:33] — The "Only One Football" debate
• [09:14] — Stewie the Baby inspired the football
• [10:47] — Moral quandaries: The Ethicist, network obligations
• [18:52] — Producer payment ethics question
• [31:37] — Grogu/“Baby Yoda” and consent conundrum
• [38:44] — NFL QBs as Beatles members, defining "greatness"
• [43:08] — The super-intelligent, time-traveling octopus
• [46:43] — Chuck's book titles and publishing stories

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Tone and Style

The episode is packed with Hollywood Handbook's signature blend of high-concept idiocy, earnest philosophy, and sly self-deprecation. Sean, Hayes, and Chuck trade intellectual riffs and goofs without breaking character, offering uniquely absurd insights into both showbiz and the podcasting life. Klosterman fits in seamlessly, effortlessly toggling between playful speculation and genuine reflection.

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For fans or new listeners, this episode is a showcase of Hollywood Handbook’s layered humor and Chuck Klosterman’s dexterity as both a philosopher and comedic foil.

Transcript

[A]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[B]

Guaranteed Human.

[A]

Hey, guys, it's Sean from Hollywood Handbook. You heard it, now see it. Hollywood Handbook is now available with video episodes, free in the iHeart app. Watch your favorite podcasts, full episodes from start to finish, all in the free iHeart app. You can also watch lots of your other favorite podcasts like hey Jonas, Las Culturistas, Post Run High and more. Hear the voices you know now see the moments you missed. Open the iHeartRadio app, search video podcast or search Hollywood Handbook and tap watch.

[B]

All right, ready for the theme? Ready.

[A]

I'm not hearing it. Is it playing?

[B]

It was playing, but we're not hearing it either.

[A]

Okay, I don't need to hear the theme. I've heard the theme.

[B]

I don't need to either. As long as I might like it. Really trust that it's. That it's happening.

[A]

Oh, he left and he's leaving. And I don't blame them.

[C]

Okay, my fireplace.

[A]

No, that's fine. And just in terms of the theme, kz, are we going to try again or are we just going to kind of say, like, forget the theme this week? Who needs it?

[B]

We had it for a second. I don't that for my. And now we lost it.

[A]

Yeah, we done it. So this is, I think Chuck just so you know, episode like 635 or something. And so what we're finding is they don't have the audio for the theme song, which is totally normal, totally fine

[B]

at this stage in the podcast.

[C]

Like 600 of these. How many do you do a week?

[B]

We do. Oh, no, sorry, that's 600. Just of our main show.

[A]

Yeah, this show.

[B]

We also do a bonus show every week and a show about basketball.

[A]

Yeah, we do. So.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Wow. Okay.

[A]

Hey.

[B]

And we're back with Chuck Klosterman. The book is footballs.

[A]

The book is football. And can I actually launch in just with a. Can I get the gripe of the week off my chest? As long as we're talking about football, is that okay with everybody?

[B]

It's okay with me. Okay with you, Chuck.

[C]

Go crazy, Chuck.

[A]

For me, it's the hypocrisy. For me, it's the hypocrisy. That's what's making me insane right now in this day and age in the world I'm raising my children in. For any journalist, nay, any human being to behave as if they have not gone on a romantic vacation with Mike Vrabel. Like, it. It's disgusting. And it's like we all wanna any embattled figure, you know, we all want to pile on, right? It's not me. Anyone but me. And we're gonna just kick them while they're down. And it's, you know, for me to have to look my son Vrabel in the eye and try to explain to him that this kind of thing goes on and that people are just willing to pretend like, look, we all love football, right? We're all in the same place. We go to these stadiums. We're in the same hotel. You think nobody else got in the hot tub?

[B]

And, Chuck, I noticed in the book you did not talk about.

[A]

Mm.

[C]

The

[B]

extramarital activities of coach Vrabel. Is that because you were yourself conflicted out having, like. Let's just say it. Every single person in this room, every

[A]

single person here, participated yourself. Just jump down into the tub.

[C]

Did something happen with Mike Vrabel? Is this about the combine?

[A]

Oh, Chuck. Oh, sweetie. You've been on such a. Such a whirlwind.

[C]

Well, you know, you haven't seen. I, I kind of, you know, I try to. I don't want to, you know, dabble too much in the news. So I just, you know, I, I, I, I.

[A]

The book is about old stuff, largely.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. So. So, like, so something. What went on with Mike Vrabel? I mean, you know, he's. I thought he was really underrated guy with the Titans, having real success with the Patriots. Loved by the media generally.

[A]

Right? Really loved by the media. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

So is something. What's happening? What's.

[A]

What's happening now?

[B]

I.

[A]

So I don't want to be the one to bring this news. Hey, can you handle it?

[B]

Apparently, kissing is illegal now.

[A]

Now, that's. Now you go to jail.

[B]

Apparently, in Mr. Trump's America, you are not allowed to smooch, to have affection,

[A]

to show love, to express physically, any kind of tenderness.

[B]

No canoodling anymore, I guess, in this FASC State.

[A]

Go ahead.

[C]

So this involves what, like Drake may. I'm guessing what. What's he. Who. What. What happened?

[A]

I hope so. I hope Drake's been as busy as you are. I hope he hasn't seen any of this.

[B]

Or I hope if he has, he's been inspired by the idea that you can actually show love to, for example, multiple receivers, as he did this season, distributing the ball equally among. Among his entire core, and not just having one person that you could shoot

[A]

it to that for the entire season going. Okay. Well, I guess, you know, Stefan Diggs has the sacred ring, you know, and then I can only Throw to this one man because he's, you know, he's been here the longest or something when there's other people who deserve to have it shot to them.

[B]

And we're back with Chuck Klosterman. The book is.

[A]

The book is football.

[B]

What made you want to do about a football?

[A]

What made you say football?

[C]

What made me say football? I like that you're pluralizing it as well, because obviously the game involves multiple balls.

[B]

It would be ridiculous to just talk

[A]

about one for it only be one the whole time. Think about how filthy it would be.

[C]

Well, you know, I.

[B]

But let's play this out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is it kind of unfair? And this is. I mean, this is what they said to Tom, right? Oh, this is a different footballs.

[A]

Yeah, this is different. They said it to Tom.

[B]

That's illegal too.

[A]

Too many footballs that he used.

[B]

So should. So I guess what they want is you should just use the same footballs.

[A]

Let's have it be fair. Everyone has one football for the whole season. And if you don't take care of it, that's your fault.

[C]

So you're saying like one per game, one per team, or one for the league?

[B]

One per game. As in the game of footballs.

[A]

Oh, and they play the games one at a time. I was going to say each team gets a football. That's your football. When you're having a home game, you're in charge of it.

[B]

Not fair.

[A]

And if you. And if something goes wrong, that's on you.

[B]

They stagger the games. Obviously they have to be either played in the same place, I would think happen. And the footballs is just there. And that's where the footballs lives. And then everyone gets it when it's their turns to get in. Is also for little kids.

[A]

Boy, that'd be. That'd be a shame, wouldn't it, Chuck, if the. The sport, the most popular sport in America was teaching us about sharing and taking turns. Well, that'd be bad.

[B]

Mike Frable's not allowed to do that.

[C]

It would be unfortunate.

[A]

But you should take too long. You think?

[C]

Well, I just think this idea, this football idea you have is kind of intriguing me because you think of valuable that football would be. Oh, my. Go sell it.

[A]

You know, breaking in to steal the other team's football the night before.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Who better to ask the question? Oh, it's. Everyone thinks, oh, we use a different football for every single game and sometimes a bunch in the game. But what if we're wrong? But what if we're wrong?

[C]

That's great. Point. Great point. Well, you know, I. You've given me a lot to think about here regarding the football itself because, you know, I'm writing a. I wrote this book about football, but I only. I only spent a few pages on the actual ball. Yeah.

[A]

And. And you. And, and you talk about the shape of it.

[C]

So it's like, you know, you talk

[A]

about the sport, how it can only kind of get bigger and grow, and that's kind of the nature of it. And that's going to ultimately lead to its demise. But what if it became smaller in terms of just. There was only one football. And whose version do you prefer? Minor Hayes version of what? Well, so my idea is each team gets one football for the whole season. If you lose your football, Hayes's idea is that there's actually only one football in the NFL.

[C]

I think that is the one. I. That is the one.

[A]

I prefer only one football in the world.

[C]

Yeah. Because it would become such a. Just such a sought after item. You know, be like that and. And its future would be mean. You know, I like the idea of all having. I mean, that's a lot of sharing. Yeah.

[A]

And my idea obviously was cannon fodder. It was cannon fodder for me. I know Hayes is only one of football in the world that's obviously, you know, the right choice, but I have to provide some cannon fodder. So you're making choices too on the show now.

[B]

Going back to the book, it was sort of a revelation for me, what you taught me. In the same way I remember reading you talk about Muhammad Ali and his influence on rapping years ago. In the same way you sort of laid out the connection between Stewie the baby being the inspiration for the shape of the football, that the shape of his head was what originally inspired the football to be shaped like Stewie the Baby.

[C]

You're talking about the Family Guy character. This is what Stewie the Baby.

[B]

He was on Family Guy. Yeah.

[A]

He's got his own show now, but he certainly was so involved early on now, the.

[B]

He was. I had sort of forgotten that Stu the baby was on Family Guy, but yeah.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, people forget, huh?

[C]

There's spin off or something. He has got a different show now, this baby.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So yes, dude, he's got a show with two season commitment.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'd say he's got his own show.

[B]

It's basically Family Guy is basically a distant memory at this point point for Stewie the Baby. But Mike Brable's not allowed to do that. He's not allowed to.

[A]

Yeah. I was like, no, Tom Brady got drafted by the Expos or whatever, but that's not how we think of him. It's not really how we think of him, is it?

[C]

No, that's true. That's. That's true. They do not associate him with the Expos.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

We're back with Chuck Klosterman. The book is Football's Chuck. We have a question. You were, of course, the efficacy.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Answering.

[A]

You recall this question?

[B]

We have been trying since you were first. The efficacy to get you on the show because we have so many questions for you.

[A]

The show, the world of the show is rife with moral quandaries.

[C]

That would be. You know, I. I feel I haven't done this in a while, but I. I would. I would love this. Go ahead.

[B]

I got one last ride.

[A]

I got a feeling that the muscles still work in there.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Where to begin? So let's. I mean. And we don't want to use real names in this.

[A]

Yeah. Just. Just. It's sensitive for some people because we. They are real issues.

[B]

Say some men are on a podcast.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

And that podcast is on a network,

[C]

like a television network or like a podcast.

[A]

Well, they're filming it, but it is a podcast network primarily. But, you know, they've all got to do video now, don't they, Jeff?

[C]

Part of the computer network. Just the network of computers. Okay. Okay. Sure. I can imagine this.

[B]

And the network. The face of the network is a famous man who is friends with Pete Carroll from your book.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

And is in a movie and another movie. A dozen or so movies and another. And he has not done the men's podcast yet. And he has not been asked.

[A]

It's been. There's been a bit of an overture made. There's. So let's say he has a shingle on the network that has a label.

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Maybe it's big money players, and we are required to display this label promoting this brand. And yet this man. Let's say he was in two movies called Anchorman. Does he have a moral obligation to appear on the show as a guest

[B]

if he has time to literally do two movies that are both called Anchorman? Is that. Well, does that suggest that he might have time to go on his old podcast?

[C]

I need to go to revisit the thing you mentioned earlier. He has not been asked, though. You said he is not. You've not asked this person to do this.

[A]

Now, I don't think I used the word overture correctly, but. But what was There was some sort of. Okay, good.

[C]

So, like, like, you said, like, this individual, whoever this. You were, like, around him, and you just mentioned, like, hey, we have a podcast. We're always looking for guests.

[A]

No, we've never been around him. That's not part of our.

[C]

Okay, but you've never met the individual.

[A]

There's people who work with him.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

More direct by choice.

[C]

By choice. Or are these, like, slaves? Are these, like. Are these employees? Like, what is the. What is their God?

[A]

I've never asked. I've never asked.

[B]

And that could be a really interesting topic for the podcast, and it could explain that, could explain the reluctance to participate.

[A]

There's certainly a power dynamic there where I think the. The general idea of there's a new podcast joining the network and it could be good for them to have you as a guest was maybe spoken aloud and immediately shut down.

[B]

But does the famous anchorman have the obligation to take the initiative to appear on the show, even in a fun way where he just pops out sometimes where it's a surprise and he's just hanging out around the office.

[A]

Oh, hey, guys.

[B]

Yeah, and we hang out after.

[A]

Imagine he just plopped down sort of in the corner here with a bag of chips and said, don't mind me.

[C]

Okay, this might be an impossible question for you guys to answer, but do you suspect he is aware that this desire even exists from you guys? Like, is he. Are you under the impression that he consciously knows that people want him to go on a podcast and he's just not doing it?

[B]

We so far have not determined a piece of that question, which is, is he aware of the men.

[A]

The. Do the men exist in his mind at all?

[B]

So whether the awareness is there of whether the men want him to be on the podcast?

[A]

The men on the podcast.

[B]

The men on the podcast.

[C]

No, men on the podcast. Podcast is not called the men you're talking about. The two men are the.

[B]

The.

[C]

The. The.

[A]

The. In the hypothetical, though, where someone were to ask him, do you think two men of a certain age with a podcast on your network would want you to appear? I think he would have to say, yes, they would. He knows that they would want that. Well, I guess celebrity and what I

[C]

would say I have learned from the world of podcasting.

[A]

No, go ahead.

[C]

And kind of from the world in which kind of you guys exist in the world of Hollywood and all this. It's kind of a transactional world, right? There's everything a transaction.

[B]

So what would you said it, boy.

[C]

What would you. What would be the. What Would be the transaction from the end of the men. Like, what are they? What would they provide?

[B]

What we offer.

[A]

What would we offer?

[C]

I would say, well, this is you guys.

[A]

Oh, I, you know, it's easier for me to talk about this if I sort of take on the role.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Cornered me. You son of a boy.

[C]

I don't know. I mean now, now.

[B]

So I really convinced myself for a second that this wasn't my life.

[A]

I did not set out today to play chess with the grandmaster.

[C]

Mm.

[A]

And now I'm a checker.

[B]

So is this what you used to. And I remember how you used to do this on the efficus now, where you would spend most of your time in answering the questions, revealing the identities of the asker and the subject.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

For your own pleasure. Exposing them.

[A]

Yes. It was honestly my first exposure to true gotcha journalism.

[C]

That was a real stressful job, though, I have to say, for a weird reason.

[A]

For a weird reason?

[C]

Well, yeah, because like everyone thinks of now, like newspapers are just on the Internet, but, you know, they still make the old physical copy. Right. The old physical magazine. So in order to get that printed, I had to sort of have the entire thing done like nine days before it came out. So then once it was locked and it was going to be in the magazine, I would spend nine days thinking about how I might be incorrect. It would just be. It was terrible.

[B]

Standards change. Society evolves.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And people's relationship to, for example, adultery changes on a level day to day basis.

[A]

Nine days ago, the way I would have thought about even throwing a football to multiple receivers.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And how morally objectionable that would be to me. And now to look at it from my current purview with the perfect information that I have that actually that's good for the team.

[C]

Team.

[A]

I, I, I, I would not, I

[B]

would not want that job. Next question.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

A producer. A man.

[A]

A man.

[B]

Podcast producer, I guess this producer is actually producing a podcast.

[C]

Okay. Podcast production.

[B]

So you're thinking, you're thinking of a pro. You're thinking of a producer. Okay, yeah. Okay. This is a, this is a, this is a producer. And this is a man who actually produces a podcast.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Produces like 17 of them or something. And then every time he drops one, he goes like, good news.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Good news, there's just one. I'm doing one less. Okay, I'll have more time for you. This is how this guy talks.

[C]

Really?

[A]

Anyway, he's a podcast producer.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And he is, he's a little boy. He's from a Insanely wealthy, insurance dynasty. So. So then what he even does is, like, the fact that he's producing podcasts at all, I think is just a you to his old man, sort of a joke to him.

[C]

Okay, okay.

[B]

Or it's another way to profit off people's illness, I guess.

[C]

Would you classify this man's father as. As, like, wealthy or very rich? Is he. Is the father very rich? Like, if you looked up this guy on Wikipedia, would it mention the wealth of his father?

[B]

The producer likes to say he has freak you money.

[C]

Okay, okay, okay, okay. So, okay, so this producer, he's a

[A]

producer, and he has, over the course of several years, sort of burrowed his way under the skin of this podcast so that he is kind of inextricable without pulling out something crucial to the sort of existence of it.

[C]

Is this troubling or is this positive?

[B]

It's just part of the. It's become a body part.

[A]

There was a time when there have been different times throughout the length of the relationship that it has been both.

[C]

Oh, really? At the same time.

[B]

You know how you have, like a tick sometimes it gets in, like, to your feet and you're just like, okay, well, that's like another toe now. Basically.

[C]

Like, well, that's kind of outside the box thinking.

[B]

I don't.

[C]

That's not really usually simultaneously positive, but okay, I guess it could be. I mean, I guess.

[A]

Well, you know, sometimes it feels kind of good.

[C]

I mean, well, you're. You're. You guys come from more of a tick place. Like, I feel like, boy, I'll say in New England there are ticks or like. Or like, you know, like Fire Island. Places like that.

[A]

Brother, you said it.

[C]

Yeah, you got that one tick. Two makes you not like red meat or whatever the. What's that? Like the Lone Star tick. You familiar with this?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

No.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Every single one we're familiar with, there's not a.

[A]

There's not a tick under the sun.

[C]

I don't want to. I don't want to get you off track. So this producer kind of has kind of the Michael Jacksony voice you describe. Wealthy, coming from wealth and.

[B]

Michael Jackson. Yeah, like 1981 and I'm dating myself.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Off the wall.

[B]

Yes. And this little boy has moved. Has also burrowed himself into a woman's affection somehow. And the two of them have moved to, say, let's call it Pittsburgh.

[A]

Yeah, let's use a fake name. So it's like Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Okay.

[B]

For undisclosed reasons.

[C]

Well, undisclosed to. To. To you or to anyone.

[B]

We haven't asked. Don't care.

[C]

Okay. Okay, great.

[A]

Rather not know. Yeah.

[B]

And this man, as of right now, the financial arrangement with the podcast is unchanged. Does the podcast have an ethical obligation to adjust the producer boy's payment according to the cost of living in his new home?

[A]

Just in terms. Just in terms of the ethics of it. So let's say, and it just as an example, the kind of thing this producer might do, let's say, just so you have a sense of kind of what he does for the show. So.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know, for a long time, I

[C]

never know what producers do on these shows.

[A]

Yeah. So for a long time, he was sort of boots on the ground in Los Angeles. You would get to the studio, you know, not really do anything we could see. But there was an assumption that something had been set up for us.

[B]

He'd make it something. He'd make a pizza sandwich for us. Have you ever had a pizza sandwich?

[C]

Delicious. Is that like a Subway sandwich? But it's just like. There's just pepperoni and cheese.

[B]

No, there's cheese and marinara sauce, but it's on bread, like sandwich bread. It's not hot.

[C]

Oh, that. That. Well, how. What? It's cold marinara sauce.

[A]

Cold marinara.

[B]

It's not cold. It's not like.

[A]

And the bread's not like the bread's actively cold. The bread comes out of the freezer,

[B]

but it's not like frozen.

[A]

It's like marinara sauce. Yes. Room temp. I. It's a cult room. But the.

[C]

Anyways, okay, that's one thing he does.

[A]

So that's. So that's what he used to do. Now that he's in. In Plsburg, maybe a guest is coming on the show. Hell, maybe he's the effic. And you would maybe see him torturing this person with little technical nitpicks.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like here, pull down menus in QuickTime, etc. Completely ignoring.

[C]

Incredibly completely.

[B]

Have a microphone like this bullshit.

[A]

And. And the host may sit down and sort of try to engage a little bit, have a little bit like, warm banter with the guest prior to the recording starting. And that would be forbidden by this producer who needs to play his sick sort of jigsaw like games. The different recording menus.

[C]

Okay. Okay. The attempt. The attempt to say warm the guest up, get them comfortable. That's undercut by these technical. This technical jargon, which, by the way,

[A]

is what is what these podcast hoes would be known for, is making everyone so comfortable doing the show.

[B]

Supposed to be hot sandwich Is supposed to be cool. Yes, yes.

[C]

Podcast is just like guys talking. They always say guys. People compliment a podcast by saying it just sounds like dudes at a bar

[B]

chatting about free flowing conversation that occasionally touches on mature subjects.

[C]

Yes, yes. Real friends. Yes.

[B]

Instead, we have an expensive boy in Pittsburgh who, imagine this, if he had been living in Pittsburgh and move to Los Angeles, I have a feeling we would get a. Yet another text about how, hey, it's really expensive to live here. How about a cost of living adjustment?

[A]

Some sort of, some sort of transportation fee.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Some sort of housing, you know, stipend

[B]

and something like hooks to area median income, for example. Is there an ethical obligation now this

[A]

guy moves to a palace in the middle of the country.

[C]

I mean, this is complicated for a couple of reasons. One, yeah, you keep calling him a boy. Is he a minor? Is this, is this a child? Or are you just sort of, is that a kind of a pejorative way you refer to him?

[A]

He's a major child.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

He's like a fucking little baby.

[C]

The cost of living thing is, is confusing because I've been seeing these, these ads from a mayoral candidate, Spencer Pratt. It actually looks real cheap to live in la. It seems like there's lots of places you can just live. So I don't know if the cost of living is, is really a problem.

[B]

So he is actually the one making those ads he's been very involved in.

[C]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. The producer is again, he's moonlighting. He's always doing 19 other shows and then, and then he's got, you know, time to work with Expenser Pratt. That's what he calls him because he has an expense account with the campaign.

[C]

But, but you're, and you're wondering if ethically you can reduce his salary because

[A]

I wonder if we have a moral obligation.

[B]

Obligation.

[C]

Okay. Are you. Yeah.

[A]

Just from an ethical standpoint.

[C]

Yes. Well, I mean, I suppose one could argue that like you need to even refer to him as like a boy. Like needs to learn the value of a dollar.

[B]

Right. Boy.

[A]

It could help him, huh? Yeah.

[C]

And maybe it might be to his benefit in a way to make less. It's for him. Possibly.

[A]

I don't want to take his money away, but how else is he going to understand exactly the same amount in Pittsburgh he did in la?

[C]

Oh, it's actually Pittsburgh.

[A]

Oh.

[C]

You know, what is the town. Because I thought maybe some kind of weird like sex town outside of Vegas the way you were describing it before, but it was like that's Pittsburgh, you know, is kind of Underrated.

[A]

He did go to Vegas a lot and he didn't gamble. And that's now making me wonder, is there a Pittsburgh there that was actually spending a lot of the time go

[B]

to Vegas to smoke cigars? And now that I'm thinking about it, like, that doesn't really. Why would you go all the way? You can do that here.

[A]

Yeah, that doesn't seem like it requires

[B]

travel, but he does say you can have a sex town anywhere.

[A]

Yeah, that's sort of a famous saying of his.

[C]

Okay. Hollywood Handbook.

[A]

Hey, guys, it's Sean from Hollywood Handbook. You heard it, now see it. Hollywood Handbook is now available with video episodes free in the iHeart app. Watch your favorite podcasts, full episodes from start to finish. All, all in the free iHeart app. You can also watch lots of your other favorite podcasts like hey Jonas, Las Culturistas, Post Run High and more. Hear the voices you know now see the moments you missed. Open the iHeartRadio app. Search video podcasts or search Hollywood Handbook. And tap watch Hollywood Handbook.

[C]

Okay, question three.

[B]

Okay, so we're back with Chuck Klosterman. The book is.

[A]

The book is footballs. And we're coming back from.

[C]

You keep saying, are there going to be ads dropped in here? Is this, like, real lucrative?

[A]

Fingers crossed.

[B]

You know, we're going to do the beginning of this at the end. So, like, we're gonna. So, like, Sorry, did he not explain this to you? Like, we, we.

[A]

This is why we have to cut his pay.

[B]

We always kind of like, we heat up over the course of the. Of the show. The show gets. We're fourth quarter guys.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[B]

And we want that energy at the

[A]

beginning to launch us because otherwise people will turn the show off. If people hear the beginning of the show first, they turn it off.

[C]

It was boring. Our early interaction was boring.

[A]

Yeah, the whole thing, the whole thing has been bad. But the. But the other thing I'll say, Chuck, is when. When you ask whether, you know whether we're going to have ads, dress for the job you want, you know, host for the podcast you want. And there's sort of a fake it till you make it. I think if we do enough coming back from an ad break, those ads are going to find their way to us.

[C]

Well, I've always thought a good idea for a podcast would be two ads for, like, have you have no relationship to the product yet. Like, you think you actually like the thing.

[A]

You stitch it.

[C]

And then you'd think the company would hear that, knowing that it's a Sincere. Yeah, you know, endorsement. And then they would come in later and say, like, okay, you know, promoting, you know, like, whatever it is, whatever.

[A]

I'll take that. Yeah.

[C]

Love this shampoo. Obviously they love the shampoo.

[A]

Modern mammals, etc. Yeah.

[B]

Or just send the invoice. Right. Don't even do it.

[A]

Yeah, just send out.

[B]

Send out whatever.

[A]

Going to check.

[B]

They're going to 500 invoices. Yeah, not everyone is going to.

[A]

They're going to pay, but, like, have to deal.

[B]

Like, maybe three will.

[C]

More of a. Kind of a gamble. More of a gamble.

[A]

Yes, we have.

[B]

And that's 75 bucks.

[A]

You know, like, really picture it. The. I guess the third question would be if there was a man, okay, maybe he's a podcast, maybe he's not.

[B]

Who

[A]

through some sort of deceit or trickery, was able to get the Mandalorian's friend Grogu to use his Force Choke powers on him in order to participate in some sort of autoerotic asphyxiation activity. Is that morally wrong for Grogu to be unaware that he's participating in kink. Just before you answer. Before you answer, before you answer. Okay, I just need to say it because I can already hear the comments. This is a hypothetical question. Anyway. The term Baby Yoda is a misnomer. Grogu is at least 50 years old, which is older, which is older than me, older than this man in the example.

[B]

It's not canon. Like, everyone calling him that is actually the sick one, you could argue.

[A]

Yes. Disgusting.

[B]

This is a transaction between adults. Everything else aside, like this, this is two adults. And.

[A]

And potentially, you know, Grogu may be willing to participate in this with the knowledge, but that would then not feel as good to the man. Waste.

[C]

Oh, that's. This is. This is interesting now. So you're saying that in order to. For this to have, like, the maximum erotic power, the Baby Yoda has to be in some way tricked into this.

[A]

He's choosing to force choke. You know, maybe it's a training exercise, something like this. It's gonna leave him quite tired at the very least.

[B]

Can we please call him Yoda the grown up?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Okay. Or. Or I don't know, like, what's Yoda

[B]

of a certain age?

[C]

You can't really call him an adult Yoda though, right? That wouldn't make sense.

[A]

Well, he's not Old Yoda, but I think he is. I think he's. I think he's a grown up.

[C]

And it's also. What is. What is this one's? Relationship to Yoda is that explained? I. I didn't watch the Mandalorian is he is the me either some people call the baby Yoda. I guess I initially assumed that was just really young.

[B]

They have, they have a. They do sort of imply it. He wears a locket with a. With a broken heart picture inside that has like real Yoda in it. So they are divorced.

[A]

I'm one half is divorced.

[B]

So they were what, Grogu and Yoda? And again it's not like spelled out in the show. Like the implication is that one thing

[A]

I like about it, I haven't seen it, but one thing I like about it is the way they do sort of bury these. They kind of leave the information there there for the audience to come pick it up. They don't force feed it to you. And so yeah, there's this locket and everyone now and then at the top or bottom of a scene you'll see Grogu sort of looking longing at the broken heart photo of Yoda.

[C]

Okay, so we're first of all, so we're all agreement there's no element of use of a child. We're looking at this thing as an adult. The thing is an adult way to look at it.

[A]

He's over 50 years old.

[B]

Everyone's an adult. Yeah.

[C]

Okay then you know, I guess, I mean what, what. What's even the potential problem? I mean what, what do you like this individual?

[B]

If I can just say. If I can just say this individual is committing crimes on behalf of the Empire in order to goad this.

[C]

Oh wait, ok, wait a second. I will now you finally frame this. So what the idea here is is someone is using this was Groku you say his name is Baby Yoda's Grogu.

[A]

Grogu.

[C]

Okay, it's fine. Someone is, is is committing like genocide or whatever. Blowing up planets.

[B]

Come on. He's bought or whatever. I'm just saying he bought a mind. He's bought a mind. He's enslaved an entire town. He's a minor character.

[C]

He's sending the somebody minor. He kills a taunt on for fun. But this causes the little the creature

[B]

to then Grogachu punish him, force choke and then.

[C]

And the idea is then he will masturbate while this is happening.

[A]

You gotta give it his best shot.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, well. Oh no now because it's like. I mean it's what he's committed caught

[A]

up on whether the crime is wrong. Oh, would he have committed the crime

[C]

like was like if he was going to kill and just in this hypothetical, he's going to just kill the tauntaun anyways for sport, then this is just sort of an add on.

[A]

Yeah, it's just a consequence.

[C]

But if he's killing these things, he's doing these crimes in order to cause this thing to do and otherwise would never happened. I guess I gotta say it's unethical.

[A]

Then the ethics becomes sticky.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It barely got on the episode too. It was implied by Mr. Favreau that it was gonna be potentially like a star making, like if it. If this could all be filmed, that this, that.

[A]

That this character would then become. Yes.

[B]

Potentially like a backdoor pilot.

[A]

Yeah. Like sort of the new Orlando or whatever.

[C]

This is why it would have been much more interesting to be the ethicist for like the LA Times, where the questions would be more like this. This is where it's like. Most of the questions I got were mostly from rabbis or. Or lawyers or women who were breastfeeding. Those were the three people who asked the most questions to the ephesist.

[A]

What they want to know about breastfeeding. What was.

[C]

Well, it was always issues. There was always issues about the ethics of it.

[A]

And I busted out wherever I wanted to.

[C]

Yeah, well, not so much that. It was more like, if I recall, often to do with like the idea of kind of shaming people or forcing people to breastfeed. And some people couldn't. The use of formula. It just came up more than I would have. I would. I would not have anticipated that.

[A]

Yeah, no, I wouldn't think. I wouldn't think the question of should I be shaming people would come up that much.

[B]

And you would say, what? Just like.

[C]

Oh, I can't even remember. That was a long time ago. It was like 10 some years. 15 years.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. All right. What do you want to talk about?

[B]

We're back with Chuck Klosterman. The book is footballs.

[A]

It's huge. He's telling us Jim Thorpe's the goat, not Tom Brady. Okay. I didn't mean to spoil the whole chapter, but let's hear it. Not the whole thing. Just. Is that true?

[C]

Well, the argument is that. Yes, that for greatness. For. It's really an argument about how one gauges greatness.

[A]

Okay, do. Let's do this.

[B]

Tom Brady's Paul McCartney.

[A]

Pton Manning is John Lenon. Drew Brees is George Harrison. Phil Rivers is Ringo.

[B]

Tell me I'm wrong.

[A]

Tell me I'm wrong.

[C]

Oh, no, actually, it's like. It's not.

[B]

That's not bad.

[C]

Well, hold you a second. Tom Brady was Paul and Peyton.

[A]

Brady's Paul and. And Peyton's John. You want to flip them?

[C]

That needs to be reversed. I think

[A]

Brady's John, Peyton's Paul Breeze

[B]

with George Death on.

[C]

Peyton was. Peyton was more of the technician. You know, it's sort of like, you know, and. Whereas, you know, and Tom Brady is sort of rich, you know, all that coming out. So that's. But that's not. Not bad. Philip Rivers as Ringo. That's kind of an interesting one. I don't know how, you know, Ringo doesn't have, like, 19 kids or whatever. That's. First I was trying to figure this. That was the connection.

[A]

But, you know, I was thinking more about the football part of it just because of your book or whatever.

[B]

But

[C]

just to be. You know, the thing about that is the argument that I make in this book, if you're trying to classify something, because the. The most talented football player of all time is always going to be who's ever the most talented player right now because of the way the world improves and technology changes and people. But if you're going to call something great, it needs to be the first elite rendering of something whose qualities still exist in the modern version.

[B]

So that would mean that the podcasters.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Who are doing a podcast right now, today.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

This morning. Are the best podcasters to ever do it before in the world.

[C]

Well, if somebody. I used. Do you feel like the best podcasts of all time are in our past, that there was a golden age of podcasting that's now over? I don't know if that's.

[A]

Oh, no. Our best episodes are ahead of us.

[B]

Ahead of us.

[A]

That we are looking forward. If you even think about how much better this episode has gotten from when we started.

[B]

And didn't we tell you that we

[A]

were gonna warm up into it? And isn't this feeling now that we started talking about music and football, like, all of a sudden it's like, whoa. Like, this is like, yes, we are on a rocket. I. I think the next episode we do after this, that is gonna be number one baby ever.

[C]

Okay, you can putting that aside. What. What was your greatest episode? Do you do feel like you guys look back on these 600 and some pods you've done and be like, that was the apex. This is when it was. This is when we really did it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Who was the guest?

[B]

Who was it? Who just popped into your head? Well, because this is. This is Malcolm, right? It's blink.

[A]

It's blink.

[B]

Whoever. Whoever. Whoever just popped into your head is who it is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'll tell you who mine is, too, but you say, say it at the same time. Okay, go ahead.

[C]

One, two, three.

[A]

Mike Lawrence.

[B]

Lawrence.

[C]

Well, there you go. I guess there's real, a real kind of agreement on this.

[B]

That was amazing. He's right. Malcolm was right.

[A]

Yeah, Malcolm's, I mean, you know, the guy sees something about people that they don't necessarily see in themselves.

[B]

Chuck writes about it. And the book is footballs. And we're back with Chuck Klosterman. You are here. You brag about being friends with the octopus that predicts a Super bowl. In the book. What's he saying about this season? And how did you guys become such good friends?

[A]

My octopus friend?

[C]

Oh, I, I, you may, maybe. I don't, that was not in the book. I don't think, I don't think in the final version.

[A]

Again, it's, it's, it's a little Mandalorian Kevin that we read between the lines.

[B]

Kevin, are you there?

[C]

What's up?

[B]

You explicitly said that he would, exclusively on our show, talk about how he's friends with the octopus that super bowl and would tell us what was going to happen at every single game this season. I did. Period.

[C]

Sorry, that sounded like in between a question and a statement.

[B]

I did.

[A]

There are different kinds of intelligence, aren't there, Chuck? For instance, your opera.

[C]

Yes. Also, do you listeners realize that you, the one I'm talking to you, wears the exact same hat as the producer? Why is that? Are you supposed to wear the same hat?

[A]

This is like part of his, you know, part of his control he has over.

[B]

It's Ripley's game. He's playing Ripley's game and he's not even hiding it.

[C]

Okay. Do you want one, Chuck?

[A]

Is that why you're asking why we can get you a hat back hatch up.

[C]

Well, I just, it was, I didn't expect it.

[A]

We have to pay, you know, anchorman some of the money, but.

[C]

Yeah, same hat. Well, I, you know, I, I, I would love to have insight about, you know, the, this octopus scenario, but I, I was there is this, are you basing this was. There's like some news story about an octopus who did this? It seems vaguely familiar to me.

[A]

Probably.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You try to stay away from the news several dozen.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Often, like the animal picks something and you have for the NCAA tournament or something. They'll like put like every team, all 64 teams and under like golf balls or something, and they'll see like if a. Bananas.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Because Then it's which banana the octopus eats.

[A]

Yeah, this isn't that. This is a super intelligent octopus. Who chooses the winner of the super bowl. Maybe is influencing who wins in the choice.

[B]

It's unclear.

[A]

Always correct.

[B]

Yes. If. If the octopus can see the future

[A]

or create it, whether it's an alien life force that actually is able to manipulate reality to fit whatever it decides,

[B]

or sees time as a cohesive block,

[A]

is already aware the super bowl has already happened for the octopus and is happening right now and will happen again.

[C]

I mean, the octopus is a pretty interesting creature. I'm sure you've seen the footage of, like, the octopus who can, like, escape from its cage.

[B]

This is the same one.

[C]

Same one.

[A]

Same exact guy.

[C]

And he, like, kind of become different colors.

[B]

Camouflage. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's how he announces what's gonna win. He puts on a helmet.

[C]

Like one of you throw in the idea that it can, like, travel through time or that it is experiencing.

[A]

That it is experiencing time.

[B]

As. I mean, we're all traveling through time.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I've been traveling through time the whole episode.

[C]

We're not really, like.

[A]

Feels a little long.

[C]

Astral projecting, I guess, into the future. I mean, that would. I suppose, though, if we think the octopus can pick the super bowl, he has to travel through time. Right.

[B]

And we're back with Chuck Klosterman. The name of the book is football.

[A]

It's about an octopus that can travel through time.

[B]

What's. What's your. What's the name of the next book?

[A]

What are we Doing Next?

[C]

There's actually a book coming out in the fall.

[B]

What?

[C]

Two books this year? You're too busy. I wrote one book. Wrote one book entirely. The publisher declined to publish it, so it was too weird. So then I wrote the football book. They put that out. So then I took the other book to a different publisher, and now they're putting out in the Fall.

[A]

Rub their Nose in It. And what's the weird one? It's just called Rock and it's fiction. Nonfiction. I know we do both.

[B]

I had sort of wondered. Chuck, and I didn't want to correct you about this at the time, but when you wrote Sex, Drugs and Cocoa Puffs, I was like, I think this is a mistake. And that book was supposed to be called Sex, Drugs and Rock. And so now that you're doing Rock, is it sort of making amends?

[A]

It's a make good, isn't it? We have to do those for our advertisers all the time. A little bit of a make Good. Comes up frequently.

[C]

Yeah, it was in retrospect. I mean, I don't know if this is a makeup, but it was pretty stupid to have Cocoa Puffs in the title of a book. When I look back at it now. Oh, you know, it's like, that was because. Because I had a different title for that book. And then they were like, no, no. This title makes no sense whatsoever. And then, like I said, well, you just want something like, I don't know, sex, drugs, and cocoa pops. And they were like, yes. And I was still young. I wasn't successful or anything. I had no leverage. I couldn't say, like, we're, you know, we're not sticking with the American. You know, they wouldn't stick with the original title. So then, you know, now I have to live with this. That I don't love the title of that book. It seems kind of to me. But that's what the title is.

[A]

What's the original title that you wanted?

[C]

American Minotaur.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Because they were horny. The guys in it were horny.

[C]

No. Bye. That would be. That would. That would. That's unseemly. That you would even suggest.

[A]

That would be. Well, we're experiencing now a little bit of the Tory paradox, aren't we?

[B]

Bye.

[C]

Really? You've learned. You're making all these references.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

You know, it's like, this is. This is proof. Yeah. That you were well informed. How old are you guys?

[B]

Bye.

[C]

Hollywood Handbook.

[A]

This is an I heart podcast.

[B]

Guaranteed human.