01-29-26 - Thursdays w/Former Dallas Cowboy OLineman Dale Hellestrae - Dale's Thoughts On The Pro Bowl And If It Should Remain - Cardinals Listed As Worst Of This Season's Non Playoff Teams And Organizations In Terms Of Future Prospects

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Holmberg's Morning Sickness (01-29-26)

Thursdays with Dale Hellestrae – Pro Bowl, the Arizona Cardinals’ Woes, and NFL Head Coach Hires

Episode Theme:
A lively, candid roundtable as John Holmberg is joined by former Dallas Cowboy o-lineman Dale Hellestrae and regulars Brady Bogen and Bret Vesely. The crew debates the continued relevance of the Pro Bowl, reflects on Pro Bowl selections, examines the Arizona Cardinals' disastrous organizational state, and touches on recent NFL head coach moves—especially Pittsburgh’s safe yet divisive hire.

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Main Topics & Discussion Points

1. Pro Bowl: Should It Exist?

• Diluted Prestige & Low Standards:
  • [06:11] Holmberg highlights that since 2000, 696 QBs have taken an NFL snap (20+ snaps). Shador Sanders ranks 692nd by performance but is going to the Pro Bowl—underscoring the game's irrelevance.
  • Quote:

    “Touchdowns, 10 interceptions, 1,100 yards. Absolutely garbage play. And he's going to the Pro bowl because nobody wants to go.”
    — John Holmberg (07:12)

• Declining Player Interest & Watchability:
  • [09:00] Dale and Holmberg note reluctance by actual stars to participate; sponsors' money and TV ratings are the only reasons the event survives.
  • Quote:

    “I don't know if you can (get rid of it). Because players don't want anything to do with it. But guess what? There’s going to be a few million people who tune in…”
    — Dale (09:01)

  • The game has turned into flag football—Dale jokes about freak injuries to little consequence QBs.
• Ratings vs. Marketing to Kids:
  • [10:23] Heated back-and-forth on whether the NFL targets children with the event.
  • Holmberg: “You don’t target the children. With the NFL, you can’t say ratings... we’re getting the kids. There's no money there.” (11:09)
  • Brady argues that “Play 60” was all about youth outreach—Holmberg calls it a PR cover for safety lawsuits:
  • Quote:

    “Play 60 had nothing to do with them caring about getting kids interested. It was to say ‘look what we’re doing...’ It’s a complete lie.”
    — John Holmberg (12:16)

2. Cardinals' Franchise at Rock Bottom

• Ranked Worst Non-Playoff Organization:
  • [15:23] The Athletic ranks the Cardinals the #1 “most miserable franchise”; rivals are the Jets and Raiders.
  • Quote:

    “Arizona Cardinals were the ranked number one most miserable franchise... by The Athletic, John.”
    — Dale (15:34)

• Coaching Search as a Disaster:
  • [16:10] Multiple candidates (over 16-18 by their count) have passed; even prospective head coaches DON’T want the job.
  • Quote:

    “They're going down a road where the dudes who have never been head coaches... are like, ‘no way.’”
    — Holmberg (16:10)

  • Dale: Is this the Cardinals interviewing the coaches, or coaches interviewing the Cardinals? (16:28)
  • Red flag: The job is considered “career suicide”.
• What’s Driving Candidates Away?
  • [17:01] Questions center on QB Kyler Murray and the franchise's willingness/investment to build around him (or not).
  • [17:20] Dale marvels: “You land at the (Phoenix) airport... you see this beautiful stuff... and then go to a meeting with the Cardinals and go, ‘I don’t want to go back there ever again.’”
  • They agree this isn’t about salary/ownership being stingy—it’s a deeper organizational rot.
• Cardinals: A City Problem
  • [19:03] Holmberg insists Phoenix media must unite to pressure owner Michael Bidwill to sell.
  • Quote:

    “You have to recognize that this is the worst franchise. And we’re not saying it out of emotion or City Love... Other publications... say, ‘Oh, the Cardinals—the worst job.’”
    — Holmberg (19:03)

  • [20:27] Dale: “They finished nine games not out of first place... not out of second... out of third place in a four-team division.”

3. NFL Coaching Hires & the “Safe Hire” Debate

• On the Steelers' Mike McCarthy Hire:
  • [28:37] Holmberg views McCarthy as a “safe, bridge coach,” acknowledging his consistency but worrying about his health and motivation.
  • Quote:

    “Is he gonna have a stroke on the sidelines? He looks horrible. He's 62 and he's £7,000. He’s Peter Griffin from Family Guy.”
    — Holmberg (29:00)

  • They agree McCarthy keeps them relevant but isn’t a long-term solution. Three to five year “safe-bet.”
  • [29:39] Other interview candidates bombed, so McCarthy was the fallback.
• Organizational Stagnation & Change:
  • [22:10] Dale: “If you don't want to do that and invest the money... why not just sell? Get rid of it and take the billion dollars...”
  • [21:57] Holmberg’s radical idea: “Five years without a playoff appearance... you have to be relegated out (as an owner) of failure.”
  • [23:32] Dale calls out Cardinals PR chief Mark Dalton as “dictator of sports interviews” who shields Bidwill.

4. The Locker Room & Losing Cultures

• On Players Rallying to Retain a Losing Coach:
  • [27:34] Dale warns if players publicly plead for a coach’s return after a losing season, beware:
  • Quote:

    “When players start saying, ‘I want this coach back. He deserves another chance,’ the reason... is because it’s really comfortable to lose 10, 11 games.”
    — Dale (27:46)

  • Cites Jimmy Johnson’s Cowboys: losing made life miserable for ALL players, not just a few.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------| | 07:12 | “Absolutely garbage play. And he’s going to the Pro bowl because nobody wants to go.” | Holmberg | | 09:01 | “I don't know if you can (get rid of the Pro Bowl)… sponsors are going to pay money.” | Dale | | 12:16 | “Play 60 had nothing to do with them caring about getting kids interested... It’s a complete lie.” | Holmberg | | 15:34 | “Arizona Cardinals were the ranked number one most miserable franchise... by The Athletic, John.” | Dale | | 16:10 | “They're going down a road where the dudes who have never been head coaches...are like, ‘no way.’” | Holmberg | | 17:20 | “You land at the airport...see this beautiful stuff...and then...‘I don't want to go back there ever again.’” | Dale | | 19:03 | “You have to recognize that this is the worst franchise. ... Other publications... say... the worst job.” | Holmberg | | 20:27 | “They were nine games... out of third place in a four-team division.” | Dale | | 22:10 | “Why not just sell? Get rid of it and take the billion dollars...” | Dale | | 27:46 | “When players start saying, ‘I want this coach back...’ it’s because it’s comfortable to lose.” | Dale | | 29:00 | “Is he gonna have a stroke on the sidelines?... He’s Peter Griffin from Family Guy.” | Holmberg |

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Additional Highlights & Tone

• Frequent, friendly digs and teasing (especially targeting Dale’s reading habits and injury history).
• Dale shares a behind-the-scenes Pro Bowl story about being almost recruited as a long snapper ([07:54-08:44]).
• Scathing takes on Cardinals ownership and operation—Holmberg repeatedly calls for public shaming or relegation of Michael Bidwill.
• Unfiltered banter—references to time travel, Neanderthals, and even awkward comparisons (“I’d rather be friends with Epstein... at least that guy got stuff done.” [24:32]).
• The episode closes with rapid-fire Suns/NBA talk before a hard and comedic cutoff as Holmberg wrangles the clock.

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Recommended Listening Segments

• Pro Bowl irrelevance and snub stories: [06:11–09:00]
• The Cardinals' organizational circus: [15:23–20:30]
• What must change in Arizona and who is to blame: [21:57–24:14]
• NFL coaching carousel and McCarthy breakdown: [28:37–30:10]

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Conclusion:
A no-holds-barred episode where iconic NFL irrelevance (the Pro Bowl) and local heartbreak (Cardinals dysfunction) get roasted, with a sharp mix of humor, sports insight, and “tough love” for Arizona football fans. Dale’s player’s view and John’s exasperated local pride make for a candid sports therapy session.

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Transcript

[John Holmberg]

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[Dale]

You know.

[Announcer]

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[John Holmberg]

The old method of treatment for a.

[Dale]

Person in this condition was to throw him in jail.

[John Holmberg]

More without your legs falling.

[Dale]

Not even a hill.

[John Holmberg]

You were on flat ground.

[Dale]

It was about a 20% incline.

[John Holmberg]

And you pulled your calf.

[Dale]

Yes, and I. It must have tore some cuz there is so much blood in my foot.

[John Holmberg]

Balled up. And you're wearing a cast because a puppy scratched you. And you have the nerve.

[Dale]

Yes. To come in here and bark about me. Well, look, am I here?

[John Holmberg]

You're not going. You're not contagious. You're just fragile. I could have been contagious. That would have been so horrible. I come in and they're like, Dale's.

[Dale]

Like, no, I can't make it anymore. I'm dying.

[John Holmberg]

Because we were around scratchy throat. Come on.

[Brady]

First of all, if you come and wrapped in like that, it's not a puppy. You got a coyote or a pop.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. Tell a better story.

[Dale]

I could come up with a story, but I consider you guys my. My acquaintances. Yeah, well, we.

[John Holmberg]

You shouldn't because that story sucked. And we need coyote or wolf or something better cuz I can't live with that. And it was a puppy.

[Dale]

On top of that there three guys are broke into my house.

[Brady]

They have.

[John Holmberg]

Their MAGA hats on and it was 2 degrees out. least we can be friends with that guy. He fought back. A labradoodle puppy scratched you in the arm and you missed an hour. Dale. SM over.

[Brady]

Maybe that's why you didn't want to remember the. The breed. Yeah, like it was a. Never mind.

[John Holmberg]

It was a guy emailed and said I believe John knows how time travel works because he went back in time and grabbed a Neanderthal and gave him something to do on Thursday mornings. And then it said hashtag hate. Dale. So there's. There's people. You're making waves. What's happening out there?

[Dale]

That's not even funny.

[John Holmberg]

Very true.

[Dale]

That happened.

[John Holmberg]

We talked about time travel this morning and that actually occurred. It was a callback, actually.

[Dale]

Not reading. I won't read.

[John Holmberg]

I can read.

[Dale]

I don't want those boring 25 minutes.

[John Holmberg]

Look, first and foremost let me tell.

[Dale]

You this about you freaking. Where did you go, Dale? Where did you.

[John Holmberg]

Now hold on. Quiet down, Brady. No need to ask him any more questions.

[Dale]

Stop. Listen, between 7 and 7:30 I told.

[John Holmberg]

A story about not being interested in something that was very interested. Because you have to read a book, Right. You weren't smart enough to understand the story. You just heard words you understood and got bored. Because the word books and reading were involved. Yeah. And then you freaked out because now it's like SMU again. You can't pay anybody to get out.

[Dale]

Do I need to bring my diploma from Southern Methodist? Yeah, I'm sure you do.

[John Holmberg]

Yes. Yes you do. Can you read it or do we need to read it to you?

[Dale]

Come on now.

[Brady]

You know he got that diploma second week of freshman year.

[John Holmberg]

Five. I was seven. Seven.

[Dale]

Junior college.

[John Holmberg]

I hit them all. I hit every one of them.

[Dale]

No, it's like, seriously, it's such a downer list.

[John Holmberg]

It isn't a downer. You didn't understand the conversation.

[Dale]

No, I know.

[John Holmberg]

That's why we went on. That's why we moved on. I was talking to Waltz all the wrong questions and it was just a mess. Let's get to why you're here though, which is sports Dale. Of course, for those who don't know. Three time world champion with the Dallas Cowboys way back in the day. Let's first talk about. I saw this and also the host of the main event with Steve McCollum on TME.

[Brady]

The website.

[John Holmberg]

Main event or something.

[Dale]

The main event. TM E. The main event.

[John Holmberg]

Don't ever know. Just Google the main event.

[Dale]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

With Steve McCollum.

[Dale]

You'll find it.

[John Holmberg]

Anyway, Dale and Steve do their show.

[Dale]

Hold on. Do I not have sponsor anymore?

[John Holmberg]

No, they bailed out. They hate you.

[Brady]

Sorry again.

[John Holmberg]

No, they moved on to our. They're doing something else with us now. Oh, like we could do without Dale. I'm like, that's a good move.

[Dale]

All right.

[John Holmberg]

I guess that's why it's diamond coatings. Az.com. very involved in the station.

[Dale]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

They're just like, this whole Dale is just a problem for us.

[Dale]

So they hate ratings.

[John Holmberg]

Turns out.

[Dale]

Turns out, no.

[John Holmberg]

Ratings be damned. They just don't like you. It didn't matter how big it got. They're still around.

[Dale]

Oh, they are.

[John Holmberg]

Just not with you. They wanted to do more with me. They're like, can we do more with just you? Why do we have to tie into this Neanderthal? And I'm like, we don't have to. And they're like, good. Let's not.

[Dale]

Wow.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. They're awesome.

[Dale]

You steal the podcast?

[John Holmberg]

Well, I didn't steal it. I made it.

[Dale]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And then you're also on the podcast, the sports thing. A John Humbert podcast featuring.

[Brady]

You're a good guest.

[John Holmberg]

You're a good guest. You're kind of right. Isn't he a permanent guest? Let's not go crazy, okay? Wow, you've been demoted.

[Dale]

I mean, this idiot, you know, contractual. And this. He's trying to talk illegal jargon, and I really can't be the host.

[John Holmberg]

So, No, I didn't say that.

[Dale]

I'll be a guest host. Then it went to be, okay, I'll host, and now it's a John podcast.

[John Holmberg]

The point being, they were begging me to make their show something, and I said, I don't really want to host your show.

[Brady]

That was Dale's mission.

[John Holmberg]

And then when I went in there, and I'm like, ugh, I gotta clean this up. So I just said, look, I'll take it if you guys want to keep showing up, we'll do one later today. But let's talk about what we want to talk about. Since I've saw this the other day and I've seen a couple of sports guys talk about it, I find it fascinating. Since the turn of the century, the year 2000, yes, there have been 696 professional quarterbacks that have played in the NFL.

[Dale]

Really?

[John Holmberg]

You can rank them with 20. What was it with 20 snaps or more.

[Dale]

Okay.

[John Holmberg]

Okay.

[Dale]

30 teams.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, that's about right. I mean, the Browns are responsible for three or four hundred of those, but so are the Bears. And the Bears, too.

[Dale]

Yeah, but the Browns got a Pro Bowler.

[John Holmberg]

But 696 guys have taken 20 snaps or more in that time in the last 25, 26 seasons. Right. Of those, 696, then you can rank them. Where do you think Shador Sanders falls?

[Dale]

I would say. Well, he's a Pro Bowl.

[John Holmberg]

That's right. He's a Pro Bowler.

[Dale]

Yeah. How many Pro Bowlers since?

[John Holmberg]

It's a great question. He's a Pro bowl quarterback at the.

[Dale]

Bottom of the Pro Bowler list.

[John Holmberg]

Okay.

[Dale]

Kyler Murray's also a Pro bowler.

[John Holmberg]

That's right. 692nd is where Shador Sanders would rank on this list, and he is going to the Pro Bowl.

[Dale]

Who are the. Who are the couple?

[John Holmberg]

I didn't. I didn't see the guys. I can't. I can't imagine. I bet you they've all had Cardinal or jet helmets on at one point. Like, I can't imagine. Like.

[Dale]

Or brown helmet.

[John Holmberg]

Like, Max hall probably had better numbers, I think. Touchdowns, 10 interceptions, 1100 yards. Absolutely garbage play. And he's going to the Pro bowl because they just. Nobody wants to go.

[Dale]

No, but here. But here's the thing, John. And it's.

[John Holmberg]

That's like you getting a Pro bowl knot.

[Dale]

I was closer than that, Brian.

[John Holmberg]

You were.

[Dale]

If they did long snappers back in the 90s.

[John Holmberg]

They did.

[Dale]

No. No, they didn't. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

The dude for the Giants, every year, same guy was Every. That dude for the Giants was Nemesis Every. He's the only long snapper anybody ever knew.

[Dale]

That's one thing that pisses me off about my career, is that they started inviting special teamers. Yeah. In around 2002.

[John Holmberg]

Doesn't that say something about you, though, once you were out there? Like, now we can do it.

[Dale]

No, it says a lot about me that I brought a spotlight to the position that they were waiting. Let's talk about this. But I will tell you this. Mark Stead Mosky, our center in Dallas, he literally checked into it to say, hey, if I fly this dude over and put him up, can he snap for me in the Pro Bowl? Because he didn't want to.

[John Holmberg]

He didn't want to go.

[Dale]

No, no. He didn't want to do the long snappy. He had to do the long snappy. Oh. And he's like, I suck at it and I don't want to do it. And I Said, well, I'll go if you pay my way.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. If you get everything figured out.

[Dale]

It's against the rules.

[John Holmberg]

You had to be. People wanted you. There is basically what needed to happen.

[Dale]

No, it had to be an eligible position.

[John Holmberg]

Right. And you had to get a bunch of people to agree that you could come. And they said no. That's essentially what you're saying. Am I wrong?

[Brady]

And in 20 too, they let the kids vote on who makes the Pro Bowl.

[Dale]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

After Dale retired, they're like, now we can start letting sp. This is the time we can talk too much Dale.

[Dale]

It'd be a decade of Dale.

[John Holmberg]

It's not what I'm saying.

[Dale]

Time Pro Bowler.

[John Holmberg]

How do they get rid of the Pro bowl, though?

[Dale]

Well, that. Here's the thing, John. I don't know if you can. Because players don't want anything to do with it.

[John Holmberg]

Nope.

[Dale]

But guess what? There's going to be a few million people who go tune in and sponsors are going to pay money.

[Brady]

Well, it's only takes less than a.

[John Holmberg]

Million now to do a flag game the other year.

[Dale]

Yeah, they've done flags.

[John Holmberg]

Is that still happening, the flag? Or are they actually. How bad will it be when somebody like Shador Sanders blows their knee out in a flag football game?

[Dale]

Wouldn't you rather have Sanders do it.

[John Holmberg]

Then the Browns certainly wouldn't. Like, there's a franchise that's like, nah, this is kind of bad. Like, I don't know that they're going to stick with him, but he's currently their guy. Yeah.

[Dale]

And yeah, I think I. I think it'd be okay.

[John Holmberg]

They'd be okay if his knee blew up. You think so? There's certain times they're like, we got away from.

[Dale]

That's like, well, you're doing that because you hate Gabriel.

[John Holmberg]

It's your dad.

[Brady]

It is. It's tainted.

[Dale]

No, if.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, that. That opinion is tainted by the Sanders hate.

[Brady]

Yeah. That doesn't help.

[Dale]

He's got nothing.

[John Holmberg]

You're happy to say that Dion's son blowing up during a flag football game. I'm not.

[Dale]

I'm not casting a spurgeon on anybody.

[John Holmberg]

But.

[Dale]

But I will say this. You know this, John. It's. It's all dollars and cents.

[John Holmberg]

Sure.

[Dale]

And if they get 10 million people to tune into this non Making money, John.

[John Holmberg]

Well, here's the job.

[Dale]

It. Check it.

[John Holmberg]

I know they had good ratings, but isn't it more just like to see what it is and then they go away. And the 10 million ratings was like three years ago last year.

[Brady]

And you're tapping in an audience of kids right now at that age that are playing flag football.

[John Holmberg]

Kids, they're not targeting literally. Look, you know better than that. If they're children's Little League, that is not good advertising.

[Brady]

You got to keep that crowd in.

[John Holmberg]

That's bad.

[Dale]

Then the kids go to the parents. Parents, Dick, sporting goods.

[John Holmberg]

They don't. The kids will say something.

[Dale]

As a person with no kids, you have no right.

[John Holmberg]

I know, but as a person who understands business, you don't target the children. With the NFL, you can't say ratings. And we're getting the kids. There's no money there.

[Brady]

Oh, I think they're going.

[John Holmberg]

There's no money. They're getting after. Look, they got everybody. They're going to get.

[Brady]

What do you think Play 60 is all about?

[John Holmberg]

Look, they're not. Yeah, it's to keep people involved in playing. And play 60 was also a scandal because the play 60 had nothing to do with them caring about getting kids interested. It was to say, look what we're doing for the future, for safety. They're liars either way. That's all they're doing. That's a lie. It had nothing to do with keeping people interested. It was to show we spent over $400 million to keep these kids. There's your ratings. Since the ratings have been 11 horrib, horrible. And last year it was 4.7 million. And it was broadcast on three different things. They're not getting any ratings for it.

[Brady]

But overall, on a show, if you're.

[John Holmberg]

Getting 4.7 million compared to the other.

[Dale]

Most watched shows on that night.

[John Holmberg]

Well, yeah, I'm just.

[Brady]

I'm just pulling up.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, I'm not sure. But come on. 4 million is not huge. And it's also the week after we don't go down. Yeah. We don't have any more football.

[Dale]

I think it's stupid. It's right.

[John Holmberg]

I'm not.

[Dale]

I'm not. I'm not arguing for it. I'm just saying the. The only reason they're doing it is there people who pay money to do.

[John Holmberg]

That ESPN will handle.

[Brady]

I mean, it's like. It's just like, you know, the. Whatever they go with on the halftime for super bowl or, you know, the Taylor Swift.

[John Holmberg]

But that's not for kids. That's for young.

[Brady]

I know, but it's going after a different audience. Yeah, this definitely is appealing to the kids.

[John Holmberg]

I mean, but that doesn't look.

[Brady]

Invested a lot of money in that flag football.

[John Holmberg]

They haven't. They invested money to say they're being safe. They don't give money to flag football. They give money to say we're making it safe for the kids so they avoid lawsuits. It's a complete lie. Yeah, they're not throwing at they oh well find a flag football league right now and if they don't care and to say they do, but this is dumb. They don't care. Here's something we should care.

[Dale]

Bowl is dumb.

[John Holmberg]

It's dumb and it can't go away.

[Dale]

For a number of years. It was getting dumb when I was getting done playing. When you were when? When, When Aikman's eating a hot dog in the second quarter on the sideline and literally two of his pro bowls he his flight left and during the game end of the third quarter.

[John Holmberg]

Now can we get back into that a little bit? Did he cross any time boundaries where he landed and actually watched himself playing and confused himself into thinking he was still playing live in Japan like you did?

[Dale]

I telling you, it did happen. Time travel, Johnny. Read a book. Read a book.

[John Holmberg]

You might be because of that, the dumbest man I've ever been in a room with. He was playing in Japan.

[Dale]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

Got on a flight.

[Dale]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

Landed here.

[Dale]

Landed before it started here.

[John Holmberg]

No, no. And on tv, dummy gets off and sees like that's me on TV in Japan. Is that still going on?

[Dale]

Oh, watch this. Yeah, I didn't even know what was happening. Either guy throw a great block or a K block.

[John Holmberg]

But you thought you had traveled through time and space and that the.

[Brady]

And only if you could have placed bets at the time.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. And you had to have it explained to you that there was a tape delay.

[Dale]

Nobody's explained it to you. It doesn't make sense. Just like you read the book. That's the only thing that makes sense.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, because you tried to argue with me that they didn't have tape delay back in the 80s, right?

[Dale]

There's no tape delay.

[John Holmberg]

There was tape delay. We had I Love Lucy reruns. We had tape.

[Dale]

No, I Love Lucy was still rolling back then. Oh my God.

[John Holmberg]

What's wrong with you? All right, never mind. Let's talk about something else. Yeah, I'm never going to do that. This was the athletic publication, broke down the rankings of the non playoff teams in the NFL and 18th was a Detroit Lions. They were like the, they were the first ones to say this is the best non playoff team this year. Like they're the ones that are closest to being respectable out of all the 18.

[Dale]

Before we get into that, can I just ask your Opinion on the Mike McCarthy hire.

[John Holmberg]

We'll get to that. Oh, I'm in the middle of something, Dale. Well, this is a complete right turn. I'm going down a road.

[Dale]

Jesus Christ.

[John Holmberg]

This is why I had to cover up that miserable podcast with him and Nash talking about hats.

[Dale]

I listen to you for 30 minutes this morning. I want to slam into something.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, I know, because you can't read and it was confusing you. You shouldn't listen to the head. He talks. You still think you this quarterback. So no. Anyway, Detroit Lions were the. And then the Ravens and the Chiefs to the bottom ones.

[Dale]

And then.

[John Holmberg]

And then you get into the top. The top three teams that are the worst. They call it the ranking the most miserable teams in the NFL. Raiders were third.

[Dale]

I was going to say, do two of them still not have head coaches?

[John Holmberg]

Yep, Raiders were third. That's one. Jets who were like, we're not getting in this. And the Arizona Cardinals were the ranked number one most miserable franchise of number one by the Athletic John.

[Dale]

They've interviewed 18 people.

[John Holmberg]

Ron Rivera is now on the list.

[Dale]

He had three winning seasons in his.

[John Holmberg]

Last 10, and the players wanted to kill him like they nobody liked him.

[Dale]

There's something. Something. Check out homework's morning sickness [e-mail] Holmberg's Morning Sickness.

[John Holmberg]

They're going down this road. And at first crazy thing was they asked for a second interview from a guy who said, no. They're going down a road where that the dudes who have never been head coaches would get the opportunity of a lifetime are like, no way. And that's because they interviewed with the Cardinals and left going, I don't want to be there.

[Dale]

And that's what interests me so much. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to listen. Is it actually these candidates interviewing the Cardinals? Yeah, it is. Or the Cardinals interviewing the candidates. And again, are you going back to the Rams and you're talking to their head coach and going, no, there's better opportunities coming next year.

[John Holmberg]

Do not take this job.

[Dale]

Yes, it's career suicide. Well, what is 16?

[John Holmberg]

16 interviews?

[Dale]

It might be even more than that, because we haven't heard of. All right, but they're just coming.

[John Holmberg]

We know of 15 with one coming.

[Dale]

So what are the sticking points? Is it Kyler Murray? Because I have a feeling that's going to be one of the main questions. What are you going to do with Kyler Murray? Are you keeping them? Do we need to get him out of here? And then obviously money.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, I don't think they're ownership. Keep in mind you're in January.

[Dale]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

In Phoenix. And it's never been nicer. I've lived here for a thousand years. This is the nicest January I've ever.

[Dale]

Been a part of.

[John Holmberg]

It's not even close. I've had the top off my car the whole month.

[Dale]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And I'm not ever like, this is awful. It's perfect. So you land at the airport, you get in the car, and they're like, before we take you to the facility, let's just show you around a little bit.

[Dale]

Here's Paradise Valley.

[John Holmberg]

You go up Paradise Valley. It's a country club. This is my house right here. And you see this beautiful stuff. You drive around. Yeah. No, you don't go up. Maybe that's why we don't have a coach. Yeah. This is John Holberg house. And they're like, oh, I love that guy. Does he live here? I'm like, yeah, he does. And you can meet him if you're the coach of the Cardinals.

[Brady]

Like, oh, we've had 18 interviews.

[Dale]

Like, let's get to this.

[John Holmberg]

And then the Cardinals ruin everything. Think of all the stuff you're flying these guys in and. And Vance Joseph, you didn't have to do it. He lived here for a little bit. But these guys come to town and see this.

[Dale]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

And then go to a meeting with the Cardinals and go, I don't want to go back there ever again.

[Dale]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

How are they blowing this so badly? Like, think of all the things that have to go wrong for a coach to be interviewed and say, I don't want that job.

[Dale]

In my mind's mind, I just can't believe it's about money. I can't believe that Michael Bidwell is short changing an offer by so much that you're just saying, yeah, absolutely not.

[John Holmberg]

And now there's only two jobs left.

[Dale]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

And they're. Neither are good, but one is the number one pick overall, so at least it's got something.

[Dale]

And that's what they have over the Cardinals. You're going to have your quarterback and whatever, and you're going to get at least three years there because you got a rookie quarterback. Yeah.

[Brady]

Maybe for the next couple of years it'll just be interim head coaches.

[John Holmberg]

I don't know what it's going to.

[Brady]

Until they run out of stats.

[John Holmberg]

But this is now being recognized, and we have to do this as a city. The media has to be on this. You have to recognize that this is the worst franchise. And we're not saying it out of emotion or City Love or anything other. Other publications like the east coast is like, oh, the Cardinals worst job.

[Dale]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

But it's not even close the worst or second worst. Well, the jets are right there with them. But I mean, the jets are a mess.

[Dale]

And if you are in any conversation with Jets, Browns and you're the Cardinals, you're in that conversation. Yeah, it's horrible.

[John Holmberg]

It's horrible.

[Dale]

But yet you've seen, especially this past year, you make the right higher. Yeah, because the Bears were too far away the last couple years. They stunk a little bit big time. And all of a sudden they're in the playoffs in one year.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale]

With the right guy, Mike Vrabel, he's got the Patriots in the Super Bowl. Don't bring it up. You know, and it's like I'm looking at that. And yes, everybody's now going, oh, they didn't beat a winning team. And this quarterback.

[John Holmberg]

They're in the Super Bowl. Who cares? You beat who was in front of you.

[Dale]

You line up every Sunday and you play who you play.

[John Holmberg]

Y.

[Dale]

But in one year, this is not a five year rebuilding plan. It was one year.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. They had their hiccups and then brought in a guy that said, here's what you get. And then they're in the Super Bowl.

[Dale]

It's crazy.

[John Holmberg]

The Cardinals have. They're not sniffing it and the two teams they're chasing were in the NFC championship game. So it's even scarier for them.

[Dale]

John. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

They're so bad.

[Dale]

The thing that I always go back to, they were not. They finished nine games. Not out of first place.

[John Holmberg]

Nope.

[Dale]

Not out of second place.

[John Holmberg]

One more. Third place.

[Dale]

Out of third place in a 14.

[John Holmberg]

Division, it's not like you're in 16th, you're in fourth out of four and you were nine back of the third team.

[Dale]

How crazy.

[John Holmberg]

They're in huge trouble. And again, I go back to my program of shaming Bill Bidwell or Michael Bidwell. I always call him Bill because of the exact same thing. Michael Bid will shame him every time you see him. The media needs to attack him. TV needs to attack him and take this ego and crush it.

[Dale]

But I did need to ask you this while it's on my mind. Sorry to interrupt you. No, but they had an interview with the coach the night of his son's game. I don't know if it was Monday or Sunday or two nights ago. You see him in the Rah Rah room.

[John Holmberg]

Bidwell?

[Dale]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

No, I did not. I did not see him no, they were playing the Brooklyn Nets. Not a lot of people were at that game. That was a quiet night. But. Yeah, but still, you'd think that Billy would be down there, you know, hopping off the ground. I don't care. He's the same guy. I don't see a difference. And I refuse to acknowledge that there was one. He was bad and this one's worse. I should give Michael more credit together.

[Brady]

At any one point and say maybe it's time to.

[John Holmberg]

No, I mean, there's. There's a. My old. My. My plan. Five years without a playoff appearance.

[Dale]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

And you have to get something better and better. I'm telling you, that is a great. You have to be relegated out.

[Dale]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

You can buy another franchise, but you're relegated out. Or you can sit and wait to see if this new owner drops in five, then you bid back in, but you're out after five years as an owner of failure.

[Dale]

Here's the thing.

[John Holmberg]

Here's the thing.

[Dale]

I understand John, is at the end of the day, I don't care what you do, whether you're a radio show, whether you're pro sports franchise, whether you sell cookies or don't you want to be the best. Sure, you have a drive. You're the owner of something.

[John Holmberg]

You'd hope so why.

[Dale]

If you don't want to do that and invest the money and all the things necessary to do that, why not just sell? Just get rid of it and take the billion dollars and spread amongst your siblings.

[John Holmberg]

Because you're speaking from a competitive mindset that just can't accept failing. You know, except for your body, which is completely like. But still, it's. It's that moment. And even. Look at you. Even with this failure as a body. And I mean, it is a massive, massive failure. Like Nash would call it World Trade Center 7. This thing has been demolished and it.

[Dale]

Needs to be my injuries.

[John Holmberg]

But both of us, through all of our stupidity, still get up and push.

[Dale]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

Because we won't let the failures of our body stop us from like, so many people quit.

[Dale]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

You know, and. And that's the thing you're seeing with. It's like the dude just doesn't have it. Whether he's trying or not, he's doing it wrong. And somebody this. I don't know why the city won't attack him more and make him make it so he doesn't want to leave his house to go.

[Dale]

A little bit of the reason that there's a guy named Mark Dalton over there.

[Brady]

Yeah.

[Dale]

Who's. Who's kind of the dictator of. Of sports.

[John Holmberg]

Of money interviews.

[Dale]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, he won't do it. See what that team is worth even where they're at 5.5 billion. And that's low for football. I know, but 5.5 billion.

[Dale]

That's a billion deed siblings.

[John Holmberg]

I was. Michael. I don't know. Just get rid of it.

[Dale]

And guess what? I'm out. And guess what? If it goes on the market, it's seven or eight. It's gonna sell for more.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, it's crazy. And.

[Dale]

And.

[John Holmberg]

And that's the problem. Go to stake 44 when you see him. Boo. You're terrible. Something. Make it so this guy feels it, right? And maybe he'll sell or maybe it'll wake him up, but he.

[Dale]

He.

[John Holmberg]

It's just atrocious. And I'm not a Cardinals fan. I don't care if they do well, but I'm a fan of this city.

[Dale]

Yes. And when. And when the local teams do good.

[John Holmberg]

It'S better, more fun to be here and it. For the people to experience that and not to be the laughing stock of the sports world.

[Dale]

Maybe ranked in the bottom three of any category.

[John Holmberg]

You know what I hate most is when people like that don't know me, meet me, and they're from somewhere else, and we'll talk, and they'll say something like, well, you guys are bl. Oh, no, no, no. Don't lump me in that thing. It's almost like saying you were friends with Epstein. Oh, no, no, no, no.

[Dale]

I'm not.

[John Holmberg]

Like, when you mention the Cardinals and try to tie me to it, it's kind of, you know, I'd rather be friends with Epstein. That guy actually got stuff done.

[Dale]

Got on a plane or something.

[John Holmberg]

That dude got away with a lot. He was a champion in his world. And he was like, dale said what he was striving to do. He did it. Yeah, it wasn't good. But the guy, you know, hey, A, B, and C, he got his trophies.

[Brady]

Woke up every day.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, yeah. But Bidlopian doesn't.

[Dale]

And I thought you go through two, three, four interviews. I always said, don't hire the first guy. Interview. Maybe interview him again, but find out what other people think of your organization and how you do things.

[John Holmberg]

Look no further than the Athletics because they just ranked you the worst in. And that would be enough fire for me to go, we got to get out of this.

[Dale]

The way you're doing things is not working.

[Brady]

By getting out of it. When you're saying by getting out of it is just Sell it?

[John Holmberg]

Well, no, by getting out of it. Whatever it takes to go.

[Brady]

Because what. What is the fix? So right now you're the owner?

[Dale]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Who.

[Brady]

Who you hiring?

[Dale]

Well, I. I would have made a higher. A lot.

[John Holmberg]

Long time ago.

[Dale]

A long time ago.

[John Holmberg]

Because we're talking now so we know we're still going. John Gruden. Yeah, I'm still throwing 15 million at him.

[Dale]

His name's never come.

[John Holmberg]

No, because everybody's afraid or. Brady said it a couple days. Maybe the NFL has actually pulled a nobody can hire him thing.

[Brady]

But blackballed in a way.

[John Holmberg]

Might not want to go.

[Brady]

Maybe for more on his side too.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, exactly. I don't think there's more to the.

[Brady]

Litigation that's going on too.

[John Holmberg]

I don't know why they can't appeal to something.

[Dale]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

Like something and nobody wants to be.

[Dale]

Because at the end of the day, even Jonathan Gannon, as miserable as it was here, he's now the defensive coordinator.

[John Holmberg]

In Green Bay and he'll be fine.

[Dale]

Yeah, he fell forward into money. You know, he's trying to get money from the Cardinals pay for being defensive coordinator.

[John Holmberg]

It's almost like being a jerking.

[Dale]

Got hired. Drew freaking Petsing got hired.

[John Holmberg]

I don't even know who that is.

[Dale]

That's offensive coordinator for the. For the Cardinals.

[John Holmberg]

Oh yeah, that guy did get it. I forgot. That's. I forgot. Why do I know name. I didn't even know that guy. He's like a wide receivers coach, isn't he?

[Dale]

I don't know what he's doing. But he got hired.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. People don't blame you. They'll wipe the stink off. Like, dude, it's this not your fault. It's Sam Darnold's made it. So everybody's like, don't blame the Jets. It's the quarterbacks can do that a thing.

[Brady]

Do you think it was the right move to get rid of Gannon?

[John Holmberg]

Because it looks like the team quit on.

[Brady]

What are you going to. I mean, now you're in this situation.

[John Holmberg]

Franchise quit on him.

[Dale]

Well, and that's the thing that was the previous two years that I always looked at both ASU and the Cardinals. The fact that the kids. Guys played hard.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dale]

And this year the Cardinals gave up.

[John Holmberg]

Yep.

[Dale]

And stopped playing for him. And then when you hear guys, here's my biggest warning sign. Red flag, whatever you want to call it. When players start saying, I want this coach back.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale]

He deserves another chance. The reason they're doing that is because it's really comfortable to lose 10, 11.

[John Holmberg]

It'S not his fault. Yeah, exactly.

[Dale]

And if you're comfortable doing that, I've told you that before. Great. Greatest thing about Jimmy Johnson, I haven't played. I've never played on a team that had 53 guys who number one goals to win. Yeah, yeah. There's always five, six, seven, eight guys who are out for themselves.

[John Holmberg]

Right.

[Dale]

And the thing about Jimmy Johnson was he made it so miserable when we lost. Even those eight guys said, I don't want any part of this.

[John Holmberg]

And when you won, it was miserable. You came back from Super Bowls and it's like you thought that was.

[Dale]

Well, you got to do it again.

[John Holmberg]

You got to do it again.

[Dale]

That, that, that's the biggest thing. You win a Super bowl and you're like, okay, you enjoy it for a week and it's like, start over. Oh, yeah. We're already six weeks behind on off season training. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

That's brutal. Brutal. You asked me about Mike McCarthy. Safe hire. Bridge coach. Everybody's bad and down on him.

[Brady]

The dude passionate for Pittsburgh.

[John Holmberg]

Tons of 12 win seasons. He was crying in the press conference. He's a dude who loves Pittsburgh. I didn't realize that when he was born. They swaddled him in black and gold and took him home. And he's crying through the whole thing. I'm like, all right. Was it the sexiest tire?

[Dale]

No.

[John Holmberg]

Is he gonna have a stroke on the sidelines? He looks horrible. He's 62 and he's £7,000. He's Peter Griffin from Family Guy. He looks brutal. So what I'm more worried about with him is he's going to die, but he. Hopefully he can bridge the team to the next coach. He's a five year plan. He's a very safe.

[Dale]

How about a three year plan?

[John Holmberg]

Or three? Depends on how they're playing.

[Dale]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

But you get the right coordinators in there. I think this the. I think the Steelers, the Steeler fans are mad because it's like, no, we hire a guy and we keep him for 30 years. That's all we know.

[Dale]

No.

[John Holmberg]

And you just can't keep doing that.

[Dale]

Not anymore.

[John Holmberg]

They weren't impressed with any of the interviews.

[Dale]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And a few of the guys have evidently bombed their interviews. The Shula kid and a couple other guys, Flores all kind of came in and bombed their interview. So, like, you know what? This guy was dying to be the Steelers coach. He's had nothing but success where he's been. Green Bay was successful. Dallas with 12 win seasons until he.

[Dale]

Lost Dak Prescott two seasons. Dak Prescott played less than half the season. They were 12 games. When he did play, they won 12.

[John Holmberg]

They won 12 games and they just couldn't win playoff games. So we'll see if it's the same old same. Well, this roster isn't great. It's good.

[Dale]

So we'll see.

[John Holmberg]

I don't.

[Dale]

Rogers come back?

[John Holmberg]

Probably. I think in a current situation. Yes, because you just need somebody to play quarterback if you're going to try to compete. If you're going to. If you're going to throw in the towel, then who cares?

[Dale]

But they. I don't think you hire McCarthy for.

[John Holmberg]

No, exactly. I think there's a plan to say let's stay relevant.

[Dale]

How about trade for Sanders?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. I think Shador is a Pro Bowler. We could get him in there. Yeah. I wouldn't mind a trade and I wouldn't mind seeing TJ Watt get pushed and.

[Dale]

Really? Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

I mean, you're not a.

[Dale]

You're not Hayward.

[John Holmberg]

He's 36. What are you going to get?

[Dale]

Well, you're not going to get much, right? You paid him a lot.

[Announcer]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

You pay him. They might make cuts before March, so we'll see. It's going to be an interesting run. But you know what? They're not on any list as number one, good or bad, so that has to change. That's a thing. Dale, Hell, straight here. He's joins us for sports. What else do you have in your mind? Quickly. Sports world. Suns are fun. Injuries are a thing. Don't look at your watch. I'm in charge of that.

[Dale]

Quickly.

[John Holmberg]

Toledo's gonna be coming in here in a minute. That's right. I got. I'm on time. All right. Never mind. You got nothing. That's basically what you just told me. I already mentioned it. It's done. I made all the points you need to make.

[Dale]

The other night. I. I have not watched an entire sunset.

[John Holmberg]

There's time. We gotta go. We gotta go. Dale. Hell street joins us on Thursday. Suns are good. It's 98.

[Brady]

It's not weird.

[John Holmberg]

It's pretty cool, actually.

[Brady]

No membership fee.

[John Holmberg]

I've heard enough of this for you, pd.