03-04-25 - Kato Kaelin - In Studio - Part One

Summary

Podcast Summary: Holmberg's Morning Sickness - Arizona
Episode: 03-04-25 - Kato Kaelin - In Studio - Part One
Release Date: March 4, 2025
Host: John Holmberg
Guest: Kato Kaelin
Platform: 98 KUPD | Hubbard Radio

---

Introduction to Kato Kaelin

[00:35] John Holmberg:
John Holmberg introduces Kato Kaelin, highlighting his fascination with Kato's life and experiences. He remarks, "Your podcast is exactly what I want to do," setting a tone of admiration and curiosity.

[00:35] Kato Kaelin:
Expresses his excitement to be on the show, saying, "I'm so glad to be here."

[01:08] John Holmberg:
Commences the conversation with enthusiasm, signaling the start of an in-depth discussion.

Kato's Early Encounters and the Playboy Mansion

[02:00] Kato Kaelin:
Shares stories from his past, including his interactions at the Playboy Mansion. He reminisces, "I used to go to the mansion. I always went there with... I brought fudge. I know. Sandwich to the buffet."

[03:10] John Holmberg:
Reacting to Kato's stories, Holmberg humorously suggests, "You need to leave," indicating the intriguing and perhaps controversial nature of Kato's experiences.

[04:08] Kato Kaelin:
Discusses his relationship with celebrities like Robert Blake and Phil Spector, stating, "I knew Robert Blake and I knew Phil Spector. I am. I'm telling you, the stuff is. It's amazing. Crazy people love me."

Kato's Fame and Public Perception

[06:09] Kato Kaelin:
Reflects on his fame, acknowledging the circumstances that led to his public recognition. He notes, "I'm famous for the most horrendous reason, and it's by no fault of my own."

[07:05] John Holmberg:
Clarifies the distinction between Kato and the events that tether him to his fame, emphasizing, "You had nothing to do with the horrendous reason. You just were nearby."

Inside the O.J. Simpson Trial

[08:22] John Holmberg:
Inquires about the details Kato might want to skip, probing for sensitive topics within the trial context.

[09:16] Kato Kaelin:
Opens up about public inquiries, "People say, did he do it?...if you were on the jury, would you have found him not guilty?"

[09:32] Kato Kaelin:
Expresses his own jury perspective, "No, I would have said guilty," indicating his personal stance despite the trial's outcome.

[10:15] John Holmberg:
Shares his conflicting feelings while watching documentaries, "I know in my heart this happened, but I think I would have said not guilty," highlighting the complexity of the case.

Personal Interactions with O.J. Simpson

[10:21] Kato Kaelin:
Describes how he met O.J. Simpson through his casting business, detailing interactions that seemed benign at the time.

[15:05] Kato Kaelin:
Narrates an encounter at McDonald's with O.J., encapsulating the tension of that moment. "We drive back to the house, and he's got the other one," he recounts.

[17:36] Kato Kaelin:
Reveals his intuition about the situation, "He didn't want me... because I think I screwed up... Probably his timeline, the earlier plan."

[19:39] Kato Kaelin:
Provides a vivid account of the McDonald's incident, "He pulled into a McDonald's to a drive-through... I get there, and he orders... he ate the thing in one bite."

[21:39] Kato Kaelin:
Speculates on O.J.'s intentions during their final interaction, suggesting, "I think he's going back there... something's happening."

Insights and Reflections

[22:09] John Holmberg:
Encourages Kato to share his frustrations with new documentary revelations, "What part shocks you the most when you watch a documentary?"

[22:21] Kato Kaelin:
Discusses the impact of new evidence and its effect on his perception of the case, highlighting, "The evidence that with the Jill Shively and the Skip Junius... I'm thinking he was shunned at the dance recital..."

[23:28] John Holmberg:
Expresses awe at Kato's continued discoveries, "It's incredible of us. Evidence dismiss."

Closing Remarks and Future Teasers

[23:40] Kato Kaelin:
Jokes about the possibility of future interactions, "The hotel today. By the way, want to do some turn down service?"

[23:46] Kato Kaelin:
Playfully suggests, "Johnny, baby," maintaining a light-hearted atmosphere.

[24:09] Kato Kaelin:
Adds a humorous note about the after-show possibilities, "Never got to ask, I'll FaceTime heaven or hell."

[24:12] John Holmberg:
Wraps up the session by highlighting upcoming interactions, "O.J. and Kato will be in the room together later... if you have any questions, [e-mail]."

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• John Holmberg [00:35]:
  "Your podcast is exactly what I want to do."

• Kato Kaelin [06:09]:
  "I'm famous for the most horrendous reason, and it's by no fault of my own."

• Kato Kaelin [09:32]:
  "No, I would have said guilty."

• Kato Kaelin [22:21]:
  "The evidence that with the Jill Shively and the Skip Junius... I'm thinking he was shunned at the dance recital..."

• Kato Kaelin [24:12]:
  "Never got to ask, I'll FaceTime heaven or hell."

Key Topics Discussed

1. Kato Kaelin's Early Life and Fame:

   • Interactions at the Playboy Mansion.
   • Relationships with celebrities like Robert Blake and Phil Spector.
   • The impact of being adjacent to the O.J. Simpson trial on his public image.

2. Public Perception and Personal Stance on the O.J. Simpson Case:

   • Kato's perspective on the trial and his personal opinions on O.J.'s guilt.
   • The struggle with being associated with the trial despite limited involvement.

3. Personal Interactions with O.J. Simpson:

   • Detailed account of meetings and experiences with O.J. before the trial.
   • The McDonald's incident and its significance in the timeline of events.

4. Insights from Documentaries and Continued Revelations:

   • New evidence emerging from documentaries.
   • Kato's evolving understanding of the case based on recent information.

5. Future Interactions and Show Teasers:

   • Anticipation of future discussions involving O.J. Simpson.
   • Encouragement for listener engagement through questions and interactions.

Conclusions and Reflections

The conversation between John Holmberg and Kato Kaelin delves deep into the complexities of fame, particularly how unforeseen and uncontrollable events can shape public perception. Kato offers a nuanced perspective on the O.J. Simpson trial, expressing personal opinions that contrast with public sentiment and legal outcomes. The discussion underscores the enduring impact of high-profile cases on individuals' lives and the challenges of reconciling personal experiences with public narratives.

As the episode progresses, Kato's candid anecdotes provide listeners with an insider's view of the events surrounding the trial, while also highlighting the lasting effects of media coverage and public opinion. The episode sets the stage for further exploration in subsequent parts, promising more revelations and in-depth discussions about the case and Kato's life thereafter.

---

For more engaging conversations and exclusive insights, tune in to Holmberg's Morning Sickness on 98 KUPD weekdays from 5:30 AM to 10:00 AM, or visit www.98kupd.com.

Transcript

[Dick Toledo]

It's Dick Toledo and new customers right now on FanDuel. Get $150 in bonus bets when your first $5 wager wins. Just visit FanDuel.com KUPD to grab $150 in college hoops bonus bets with a winning $5 bet and prepare for March on FanDuel America's 1 Sportsbook 21 plus in President Arizona first online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non withdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See [e-mail] Gambling problem. Call 1-800-next-step, or text next step to 2.

[John Holmberg]

Still streaming Homberg's morning sickness online at 98kupd.com Very cool moment for the show. And we've been here for 24 years and just a very strange and yet surreal and awesome moment. This is mostly for me, by the way, because I have been fascinated with like, your podcast is exactly what I want to do. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Kato Kalin from Kato Kalin fame. You're. You're famous for being Kato Kalin.

[Kato Kalin]

I'm so glad to be here. You guys are now on the K train.

[John Holmberg]

Here we go. I'll tell you right now. I'm starting now.

[Kato Kalin]

John, I'm not done yet. John, you demand.

[John Holmberg]

Okay. All right. Well, thanks for joining us. Cato Kalin, everybody. It's been a pleasure. No, I'm fascinated by you and life. Not because of all that happened, but because of what currently has to be you. Like I said this morning, you got an Uber here. You give somebody a story every time they see and recognize you. You are a walking story for someone else.

[Kato Kalin]

There. There's, boy, there's so many stories that I have that people, I mean, every time I do a show, it's something that will get my memory going with things that have just happened. And for example, and by the way, George, the driver, he's listening to my Uber driver. I'll give that bill later.

[John Holmberg]

Was he a listener?

[Kato Kalin]

Uber black.

[John Holmberg]

Anyways, wait a minute.

[Kato Kalin]

Guess what? George's on the train.

[John Holmberg]

Transport not included, Kato.

[Kato Kalin]

So I'll give you an example of one of my stories. So I come into your studio here today, and downstairs, I see you have all these guitars on the wall.

[John Holmberg]

Right.

[Kato Kalin]

So. And I see you have a Washburn. Years ago, I introduced a band, Smashing Pumpkins.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Kato Kalin]

In Chicago with Pantera.

[John Holmberg]

Wow.

[Kato Kalin]

So I do this and Pantera shoots a video with me and we do the video. And I didn't know it's on the album then it's, it's, it's everywhere. This video, what year was this? This is 95 or 6. Okay, so 95 or 96. It was a huge concert. Pumpkins are from Chicago. So it was just jam packed in.

[John Holmberg]

The heart of the stuff.

[Kato Kalin]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

You're doing gigs?

[Kato Kalin]

No, I was. So it's over. I did my testify. It's the. I think the verdict had already come out.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, okay.

[Kato Kalin]

So I think I'm pretty sure those.

[John Holmberg]

Are if it's 96.

[Kato Kalin]

It was, it was around there. So at my house like two or three months later, I get this package at the door. They dime bag Daryl made me a Cato guitar with his name, the inscription of his razor blades and my name in marble on this. So I get the guitar and about a month or so, two later he gets killed on stage.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, you need to leave.

[Kato Kalin]

I know. Immediately. And I knew Robert Blake and I knew Phil Spector. I am. I'm telling you, the stuff is. It's amazing. Crazy people love me. Like you guys.

[John Holmberg]

No, but you need to walk around with a sickle. You are down.

[Kato Kalin]

It's like everything. Guys, good luck. After the show, you guys go watch out for the train. So this. I agree with you. It's like I, I said I should just be like on a cardboard cutout at every crime scene.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Kato Kalin]

K and csi.

[John Holmberg]

It's crazy.

[Kato Kalin]

It is really crazy. And I knew Robert Blake too, so. And I'm not.

[John Holmberg]

And by the way, how did you know Robert Blake?

[Kato Kalin]

Just because I used to go to the Playboy Mansion. Blake would always be there.

[John Holmberg]

So this was after again?

[Kato Kalin]

Yeah, this is all in the 90s was when it was the, the parties of Playboy mansion in the 90s were the best after. You know, after the. When he started doing the girls next Door. It was still good, but it was phenomenal before really.

[John Holmberg]

And I don't even care about. People say that OJ stuff is gone now. What happened at the Playboy Mansion?

[Kato Kalin]

Well, everybody says when heft dad, he's in a better place. I said I don't think he is.

[John Holmberg]

But this is where you are such a fascinating figure. This was never planned. Nothing in your life has happened on schedule, I would imagine. And then you end up in the Playboy Mansion and, and, and women are drawn to the Cato factor. Well, did you took advantage of this?

[Kato Kalin]

You know, I, I used to go to the mansion. I, I, you could take advantage. You could do certain things. I really didn't. I always went there with. I had a girlfriend usually I brought fudge. I know. Sandwich to the buffet. But. But I, but she was, you know, she played.

[John Holmberg]

I see what's going on. She involved herself.

[Kato Kalin]

But when I didn't go, I used to go with Bill Maher. Bill and Mar and myself were always together at the Playboy Mansion. Probably we did at least 20 parties together when I was single. Best time. It was not. It was the. The most fun of.

[John Holmberg]

Was it as it was just the. The romp. You can imagine. Like everything was. There's no holds barred, there's no cameras. NDAs everywhere. Everybody's. And doors open for Kato Kalin. Was there anybody there didn't want you there because there have to be celebrities that are mad at you.

[Kato Kalin]

I think so. But I didn't hang out with them so much. I think when. If someone didn't like me but they like. Like a bill, they'd come up and then. Yeah, I think when you meet. When there's hate. Yeah, they hate because they haven't met.

[John Holmberg]

That's true.

[Kato Kalin]

And it's totally different when you are. You know, because I'm. I don't hate anybody. Even if they hate me, I still don't. I never have.

[John Holmberg]

And it's weird because I told the story earlier this morning. There's people who I say, oh, you're coming on. And they lose their minds. Oh, my God, that's amazing. I got this. Everybody's got something. And then there's one person that I. The least expected response I got was, I don't support murder.

[Kato Kalin]

Well. And I'm like, he didn't do it. My mom is just a bad woman.

[John Holmberg]

And like, don't you want to see the boy? And she said, no murders. But they associate you with the. With the. The horrific acts just because you're adjacent.

[Kato Kalin]

Yeah, I, you know, he was found innocent.

[John Holmberg]

Maybe he was innocent the whole time.

[Kato Kalin]

No, I'm talking about the verdict now.

[John Holmberg]

He was not guilty. We'll get into that later. Innoc.

[Kato Kalin]

I think so. John. I agree. I think it's sort of a boy. I've said this on so many shows that I came out from Wisconsin to become famous. But for acting, everything went backwards for me. I understand that I'm famous for the most horrendous reason, and it's by no fault of my own. I just became Cato. I guess.

[John Holmberg]

I wouldn't say you're famous for a horrendous reason. A horrendous reason happened.

[Kato Kalin]

Exactly.

[John Holmberg]

You had nothing to do with the horrendous reason. You just were nearby. It. It's like being famous for being at the World Trade Cent, you know, it's like, you didn't do anything, right?

[Kato Kalin]

I didn't do it.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. And so it's strange that you're tied to such a terrible thing when it's essentially, you were the one that said, why do you think OJ jumped your fence and banged into your building?

[Kato Kalin]

Well, so that's a, That's a theory. It's never been.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, that's what happened.

[Kato Kalin]

Oh, yeah, I believe it, too. I. My, the room that I have is, has no windows. It's just a wall. And that's why the night of. I heard that the thumb was an earthquake.

[John Holmberg]

Right.

[Kato Kalin]

My picture frame, it moved like this. And I'm on the phone, and so I'm on the phone with this, this girl that was my friend saying, oh, come, come over here. I said, no, come on by here.

[John Holmberg]

And you invited her over?

[Kato Kalin]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Did she show up that night?

[Kato Kalin]

No, no, it was. But it's great because I'm on the phone during this whole time, and the other phone call I'm making is to my, like, one of my best buddies named Tom O'Brien. He was a DA in San Diego. And after the McDonald's, I, by the way, I didn't know we're going to McDonald's after that. I, you know, I, I gave him a call, like, you call your buddy up? It's like, I just had dinner with oj.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. You know, you were bragging on it.

[Kato Kalin]

Yeah, it's kind of, Kind of like, yeah, what are you, what are you doing tonight? And so bizarre, right? On the McDonald's.

[John Holmberg]

You were.

[Kato Kalin]

Yeah, I didn't know. First of all, I didn't know he came to the, My door, the guest house.

[John Holmberg]

Let me get back some. Here, hold on. Because I want, I want to go in order. I jumped ahead a little bit. I just got so fascinated by the idea that your house, your, your guest house got ban. So who are you on the phone with? Can you. Not necessarily names, but you're on a girl. Like a girl you're dating or somebody you're trying to get with?

[Kato Kalin]

No, it's a girl that we, I worked on when I was working. She was. I can't remember.

[John Holmberg]

Just on a project. You'd work together?

[Kato Kalin]

Yeah, yeah, we just did. We're friends. Young actress and. But yeah, we saw each other a few times, but not. Not dating. Boyfriend, Girlfriend.

[John Holmberg]

And you're trying to get her to come to OJ's place?

[Kato Kalin]

Yeah, or she's telling me to come to her place.

[John Holmberg]

Okay, so it was on.

[Kato Kalin]

Yeah, it was going to be. Someone's going to come in there, and then it just, you know, we got to be late. It's like, okay, I'll see you later tomorrow.

[John Holmberg]

So did you ever get a chance with her later? If not, Cato will pay for it. If you'd like another dog. So you. Did you strike out with her? And then they're like, no, no strike. Obviously after that. Okay, you did not strike out with ojc. Beat him that night. I want to ask you that before now. You were in the guest house at OJ at the Rockingham place. And I know you've. Let me ask you this before I start going. I got so many questions. What have you been asked that you're done answering before I get there? What question are you like, I'm done with it.

[Kato Kalin]

You know what, you guys, it's reading the room sort of thing. It's like, I would answer anything that.

[John Holmberg]

You asked, of course. But there's got to be one. You're like, enough.

[Kato Kalin]

Obviously, people say, did he do it?

[John Holmberg]

Oh, well, that's easy. Everybody knows that. Yeah, yeah, that's fine. If you were on the jury, would you have found him not guilty?

[Kato Kalin]

No.

[John Holmberg]

No. You would have said guilty.

[Kato Kalin]

Yeah, I would have said guilty.

[John Holmberg]

Because watching this new documentary, I sat there and thought, I know in my heart this happened, but I think I would have said not guilty.

[Kato Kalin]

I think the defense proved reasonable doubt.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, I think. Were you there every day or a lot?

[Kato Kalin]

No, no, I was, but I was on hold a lot. So I was down there and I was in a holding room that was size of a closet. It was basically a closet. So you kind of wait. But I don't know what's going on. There's no TVs, nothing.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Kato Kalin]

And when you're sequestered. I was just sequestered. I didn't watch it. But when I watch certain things, you know, 30 years ago and now I'm seeing things that I didn't even know that you don't know. And you go, are you kidding me?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Kato Kalin]

That this was never even, you know, that never presented. No, no.

[John Holmberg]

The lady that saw Speeding Away and all that. Anyway, so O.J. you meet O.J. skiing.

[Kato Kalin]

Correct.

[John Holmberg]

That's the thing I'd heard. All right.

[Kato Kalin]

How did you meet? So I had a casting business.

[John Holmberg]

Okay.

[Kato Kalin]

And I was living in Hermosa beach, the casting business with an actor named Grant Kramer. Grant is great guy. He was a heartthrob. He was in General Hospital. He Was in a beach. I know. And also in Killer Clowns from Outer Space.

[John Holmberg]

Okay, I've seen that.

[Kato Kalin]

And Terry uses his mom and she's married. Or Terry Moore, and she was with Howard Hughes. So. Yeah, we had. So Grant and I were.

[John Holmberg]

He's also dead, by the way, so.

[Kato Kalin]

But Leo DiCaprio is alive. He played him. So I go to Aspen because our business is doing well. And we said he goes. Everybody goes to Aspen for the New Year's. So after Christmas, we drove his. He had a Bronco, too. So we drove that to Aspen. And Grant was a celebrity, so he is. Nicole at the time, was divorced. She's at. She's in Aspen. Yeah, she's in Aspen. And their eyes lock because they knew each other from celebrity skiing tournaments. They start talking and Nicole and Grant. And Grant just kind of hit it off.

[John Holmberg]

Okay.

[Kato Kalin]

I was the third wheel guy.

[John Holmberg]

Okay.

[Kato Kalin]

So I'm third wheel this whole time, making Nicole laugh. And she's with her friends and. And I'm just kind of there having fun, having an absolute ball. I meet at the time. I'm single at the time, but I meet Kathryn Oxenberg from Dynasty.

[John Holmberg]

Nice.

[Kato Kalin]

So this is before the trial, right? I'm not gonna say tapping that for. Yeah, I just.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. Nice job, Kato. Good. Chill.

[Kato Kalin]

I just.

[John Holmberg]

I shouldn't say that to you. Never mind.

[Kato Kalin]

I just remember. I just remember her many times going, brilliant, brilliant. No, I'm kidding. But so this is. I had. You know, so I had some game, I guess. This is before I was. And she was, by the way, terrific. And we. We were. Saw each other for a few months or two months maybe. And very busy. She was on our show. Anyways, Grant and Nicole start dating. And then we came back to la. I was in Hermosa Beach. I became closer and closer friend of Nicole's. I said, who lives in your house? And Gretna Green. The guest house.

[John Holmberg]

Right.

[Kato Kalin]

So that was my.

[John Holmberg]

Wait, so she's dating Grant?

[Kato Kalin]

She was dating Grant off and on.

[John Holmberg]

Unmarried to O.J.

[Kato Kalin]

Unmarried. Okay.

[John Holmberg]

She just. Hadn't happened.

[Kato Kalin]

This is their. They split.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, they're already broken up.

[Kato Kalin]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

Okay, gotcha.

[Kato Kalin]

They're splitting. So I asked if I could live in the guest house and pay the rent. And Retina Green. And so she goes, yes. Let me talk to the kids. Her kids are just in Sydney and they're kids. And I already met them a few times and they just said, yes, we want Katie to move in.

[John Holmberg]

But Gretna Green was the house behind Bundy.

[Kato Kalin]

No, no. Gretney Green. Was where Nicole lived before she moved to Bundy.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, okay. Because there's one street over, isn't it?

[Kato Kalin]

Yeah, Granny Green is. It's on. Off San Vicente.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Kato Kalin]

So is Bundy. So. But it's greenhouse is a big house.

[John Holmberg]

Okay, gotcha.

[Kato Kalin]

So it's a big house and it's separate. My guest house was behind her house.

[John Holmberg]

And then. So how do you get into OJ's place?

[Kato Kalin]

So now they. She's no longer in scene Grant. OJ and her start dating again. They start to rekindle.

[John Holmberg]

Okay.

[Kato Kalin]

And they get back together. Then O.J. meets me.

[John Holmberg]

You hit it off.

[Kato Kalin]

We, you know, totally liked me. And hindsight. I found out later, years years later that he had a private investigator see who I was and to see if there's any romance. Investigator told me this years like 20 years later. Did you know? And we. And he said we could not find a bad. And this is me being humble. I'm not breaking. He goes, we could not find one bad thing about you.

[John Holmberg]

Is that true?

[Kato Kalin]

I was like, oh, my God, that's so nice to hear.

[John Holmberg]

They never found it.

[Kato Kalin]

They never. They never.

[John Holmberg]

Terrible investigator.

[Kato Kalin]

Yes. But except for the herpes. People say, Katie, you got an infectious smile. I go nuts. A cold sword. Anyways, so that was nice to hear. And I said I never had a romantic relationship with her.

[John Holmberg]

Any interest at all ever with Nicole?

[Kato Kalin]

Never. No spark, no nothing like that. 100% her friend. And they. I think the big thing was the. It was trust. She could trust me with her kids. So could oj.

[John Holmberg]

Okay.

[Kato Kalin]

And I was never the baby. I was never the baby. Nothing like that. But if they ever needed help with the kids and all that, which I adored. And they cracked me up, the kids, I. I really believe they loved me. That was sort of. When they got their new dog, they said, mommy, we're naming the dog Cato. And I thought that was an act that, you know, it was Cato. The Akita.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. And OJ had that investigated as well. Yes.

[Kato Kalin]

Put the Akita down. Which we both of us could lick balls anyways. My own, by the way. Not yours.

[John Holmberg]

My own balls, not yours. Well, we'll be right. I'm gonna put you to the test.

[Kato Kalin]

Get over here.

[John Holmberg]

Holy smokes. So, oj, Nicole start working it out. Yes, they obviously she moves back to Rockingham. No, no, she never moved back.

[Kato Kalin]

She never moved back.

[John Holmberg]

So how do you get from the guest house to Rockingham?

[Kato Kalin]

So at some point they. They have another. A breakup. And by the way, when they were together, they were Wonderful. And if they had arguments, I saw very few. But when I did it, I would say, why do you guys have. You have everything. Why can't you just kiss and makeup? And not only because of the way I saw my parents growing up. I always rarely they fight. But my father never not kissed my mom if they had an argument, I said, you guys should try that. And then. Anyways, that was my advice.

[John Holmberg]

You saw similarities in your parents. Okay, I'm just making sure that this. There's another story.

[Kato Kalin]

My dad played for the Packers. He played for the Bills. No, but. So they broke up. Now Nicole moved into Bundy and asked if I. She said, there's a room there, but it was inside the house.

[John Holmberg]

Okay.

[Kato Kalin]

And I said, no, I'll try to find a place. And then O.J. had said, I've got a bungalow. Until you find a place, you can move into the bungalow.

[John Holmberg]

How long were you there? I don't even know.

[Kato Kalin]

Six, six. Six months.

[John Holmberg]

So this is 94.

[Kato Kalin]

Seven months at Nicole's. At De Green. Yeah. So I lived on both sides and I called it. I called it the room with a view because I lived on both sides. And so I saw, you know, I saw a lot in the lot every day. And by the way, Nicole was extremely cool. Every morning. Every morning. I lived in Gertien. She'd go running with Kris Jenner and their other group of friends every morning and take the kids to school and.

[John Holmberg]

And were you friends with them?

[Kato Kalin]

Friends with them. The Kim, Khloe, Courtney, the Five. They used to jump on the bed, wake up Kato.

[John Holmberg]

That's weird.

[Kato Kalin]

And I used to do. I used to work on film sets and get in at 5 or so a.m. and I was dead tired. And I, you know, they would just open the door and come into the guest.

[John Holmberg]

Jumping around on the bed.

[Kato Kalin]

Jumping around in the bed.

[John Holmberg]

Which they perfected later.

[Kato Kalin]

Okay.

[John Holmberg]

Anyway. No. So the.

[Kato Kalin]

So you are. What you.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Kato Kalin]

Why are you so cocky?

[John Holmberg]

So did you. Wow. Did you lose friends through this that were like. Because the Kardashians and Kris Jenner and stuff knew you? Your pals with them?

[Kato Kalin]

No, I didn't date, but it was hang up. But I didn't lose. But to be.

[John Holmberg]

Cause of this. Was there just an immediate cut? It's like a divorce?

[Kato Kalin]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Kind of. The trial.

[Kato Kalin]

I worked out almost immediately. I moved out almost immediately. And the reason I moved out is because when the Bronco Chase happened, O.J. came back to the house.

[John Holmberg]

Were you home?

[Kato Kalin]

One point. No, I was watching it with friends.

[John Holmberg]

Okay.

[Kato Kalin]

So I Said, I'm gonna move on. I got my stuff. But at one point, OJ Asked me to come to the kitchen. And after, he said, this is after. This is after the police investigated him, and I was still at the house getting my stuff. He had said, cato, you know that at McDonald's that you and I eat in the kitchen. And so I knew it was a lie. And I said, I'm getting out.

[John Holmberg]

Okay? So I said, so he was setting you up. So when you went to McDonald's with him, it was after you heard everything hit the house?

[Kato Kalin]

No, no, everything's before.

[John Holmberg]

That was before. Okay.

[Kato Kalin]

And I didn't know we're going to McDonald's. He came to the. My guest house door to have $100 bill if I could break it. I said, no, I got like 2 20s, right? And he said, he's going to get something to eat. I didn't know McDonald's. And I. I used to run. Yeah, I used to run 10. At least 10 miles a day, every day, never miss. So I said, God, I'm starving. Can I come? And I'm telling you, there was a. It seemed like a forever pause. And he said, you know, I'm sure you can come.

[John Holmberg]

He didn't like it.

[Kato Kalin]

He didn't want me. I. My opinion is he didn't want me. And I. I.

[John Holmberg]

Because you said.

[Kato Kalin]

Because I think I screwed up. Probably his timeline, the earlier plan. Probably. That's all I could think of.

[John Holmberg]

Did you get along with OJ As a person or was always this like. It's. Nicole's my friend. He's a little bit.

[Kato Kalin]

No, no, I got along with great. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

So you had no. No inkling of temper to be. No one sees that crimes of passion are different than.

[Kato Kalin]

Yeah, I didn't know anything was going to go on. I thought, you know, he was going to get over the guy. My opinion, again, is that he wanted his cake and he wanted many. I even had a girl that came by one time. We played tennis on his. On his tennis courts. And while I'm going to the bathroom, he's hitting. He goes. He's hitting on. He's. He's trying to pick her up.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Kato Kalin]

So I think that he had. He. I think he could. Thought he could get anything he wanted. At one point, Nicole just said, no, not me. She's. She actually was done. And I think he was defeated that he knew he could never have her back.

[John Holmberg]

So the trip to McDonald's, and then we're go take a break. The trip to McDonald's he doesn't really. You kind of get the vibe like, oh, I might be freeloading on this trip here. I feel a little weird, but I'm still going to go. Because you're still hungry.

[Kato Kalin]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

He hopped into the Bronco.

[Kato Kalin]

No, no. Would you take the Bentley?

[John Holmberg]

You took the Bentley. Go to McDonald's in the Bentley.

[Kato Kalin]

We drive. He's driving. And while he's driving, he pulls into a McDonald's to a drive through. And it's not. I don't really eat McDonald's.

[John Holmberg]

You're running a lot, so you're not eating McDonald's.

[Kato Kalin]

I'm not eating McDonald's. So I get there, and he orders. I believe it was two quarter pounders, and I had a chicken sandwich, but he took the first quarter pounder. And I'm not kidding, you guys, he's. OJ's got hands huge the size of your foot. So he pointed to Brady.

[John Holmberg]

So they're size four children. We don't use a human hand. Compared to mine.

[Kato Kalin]

I was wondering why Brody asked me to go to Gap for kids with him. Anyways, so he ate the thing, like, in one bite. He just. And had the bite. And I just thought, I'm gonna wait to eat my sandwich at the house.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Kato Kalin]

So we go back to the house, and he's got the other one, and.

[John Holmberg]

I walk right to any conversation in the car. He didn't want you there at all.

[Kato Kalin]

I really. I felt like this. I was kind of like, oh, I never should invite. In my head, I'm going, no kidding.

[John Holmberg]

And he just took you to McDonald's? There was no. Where do you want to go?

[Kato Kalin]

No, it was just.

[John Holmberg]

You're just riding with me.

[Kato Kalin]

Yeah. Just arrived.

[John Holmberg]

And you didn't say anything like, oj, I don't eat this.

[Kato Kalin]

No oj.

[John Holmberg]

We're going somewhere else. Yeah. Salads and such. Yeah. You know how hard it is for me not to break out the OJ impression right now? Because I want to relive this night. I'll do it in a minute. I have to. I need to stay on target, though.

[Kato Kalin]

Yeah. So I. So we. He gets the. The food, we drive back. I walk. I'll never forget. I walk to the door of the kitchen, and I look, and he's still at the car about, you know, 15 yards away. I'm looking like, why is he still at the. At his door of the car? And I go. In my head, I'm going, I'll just go to the guest house. So I go. And I just go back to. Is a I got to go. Separate entrance. I go to the guest house, and that's it.

[John Holmberg]

So he stood by the car, like, waiting for you to get out of sight or just. Yeah, I think he's just.

[Kato Kalin]

He's going to. I think he's getting back in the car.

[John Holmberg]

So you think. And this is the first I'm hearing. The first. I think I'm hearing this. And I've studied this thing.

[Kato Kalin]

Yeah, he's going to. That's part of the time.

[John Holmberg]

You think this was not. This was premeditated, or was he going to go over there and just confront her?

[Kato Kalin]

That's what I think. I think. I think he's going back there. I don't know what. For whatever reason, he's just going back there.

[John Holmberg]

But his. His brain is clearly there.

[Kato Kalin]

Something's.

[John Holmberg]

Something's happening.

[Kato Kalin]

He's quiet the entire ride.

[John Holmberg]

Do you think he knew, like, that she had moved on or that there was something else involved or like he was speculating that maybe she was with someone else and he wanted to catch him?

[Kato Kalin]

Well, after seeing all these documentaries, I'm thinking that he was shunned at the dance recital and then not invited to go to the family dinner at Mezzaluna. So this is all stuff I'm finding out. So I'm thinking you didn't know any.

[John Holmberg]

Of that while that was going on.

[Kato Kalin]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

So you found out years later, watching what we're watching. Oh, I didn't know that. What part shocks you the most when you watch a documentary? Go, holy cow, that's new. I think the first time you saw it, you're like, oh, that changes everything.

[Kato Kalin]

I think the evidence that with the Jill Shively and the Skip Junas, the stuff that came out with them, Skip Junas they saw put down at the airport, Jill Shively, which I think was regardless of selling store or not seeing it, and getting a license plate for a drunk driver that happens to be with his lights off at the exact time, speeding in front of her.

[John Holmberg]

Right. She's the one who said, I just watched Naked Gun. I know. That was O.J.

[Kato Kalin]

Exactly. And by the way, I got. I got married at David Zucker's house recently. David did Naked Gun.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Kato Kalin]

And he's a dear friend from Wisconsin.

[John Holmberg]

No kidding.

[Kato Kalin]

And he put me in basketball, and I remember that. And underrated airplane. Yeah. So. And he can't stand oj.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, my God.

[Kato Kalin]

But anyways, that's the side story that he walked my wife down his back lawn. So. And I said during my speech, I thanked him. He's got a beautiful home in Brentwood. I said, David, thanks for giving us your house for this event and thanks for not inviting Nordberg.

[John Holmberg]

The crazy part is 30 years later, he's still learning stuff about it. Yeah, I want to take a break.

[Kato Kalin]

It really is, it's incredible of us. Evidence dismiss.

[John Holmberg]

But. And this is never going to go every direction I want it to, but I want to know all the things that you've turned down. That's the thing I want to talk to you about most because I know people have come to you with things that are just, it's got to be out of this world. Kato Kaelin is here with us.

[Kato Kalin]

The hotel today. By the way, want to do some turn down service?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, turn it up. We're not doing that. Not doing that.

[Kato Kalin]

Johnny, baby.

[John Holmberg]

Cato Kalin is here this morning and it is just a, it's a dream come true for me to be this close to this. And OJ and Kato will be in the room together later before if you have any Questions, [e-mail] you can ask OJ questions too, Cato, if you're interested. So you come up with some, some stuff. What things you want to know from O.J. he'll tell you. Yeah, it's amazing. So if you have any questions you.

[Kato Kalin]

Never got to ask, I'll FaceTime heaven or hell.

[John Holmberg]

That's what we've got. We've got his portal. We're good. So Kato Kalin's here. It's 98 KUPD, Arizona's most powerful rock radio station. He said fully erect, 98 K U P T.