03-20-25 - Troy Hayden Calls In To Tell Us How Yesterday's Execution Went And What It's Like Covering Such A Polarizing Topic

Summary

Holmberg's Morning Sickness - Arizona Episode: Troy Hayden Calls In To Tell Us How Yesterday's Execution Went And What It's Like Covering Such A Polarizing Topic
Release Date: March 20, 2025

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Introduction of Guest: Troy Hayden from Channel 12

In the March 20, 2025 episode of Holmberg's Morning Sickness on 98 KUPD, host John Holmberg welcomes Troy Hayden, a seasoned reporter from Channel 12. Troy joins the conversation to provide an in-depth perspective on covering executions—a topic that is both sensitive and highly polarizing.

Troy Hayden's Work and Daily Schedule

Troy begins by outlining his daily routine, emphasizing the structured nature of his job. He mentions attending a remote morning meeting at 9:30 AM, followed by reporting duties throughout the day, including a 4 PM show, a 5 PM segment, and a 6 PM report before heading home. Troy highlights the balance he has achieved by shifting away from night shifts, allowing him to maintain an early bedtime and rise early for work.

Troy Hayden [01:37]: "I'm not doing nights anymore, which is nice. Well, I'm home at about 7:30, have dinner and yeah, hit the sack."

Detailed Account of a Recent Execution

Troy provides a comprehensive account of the recent execution he covered, detailing the procedural aspects and the emotional atmosphere within the execution chamber.

• Execution Chamber Setup:
  • The chamber is described as compact, roughly the size of a child's bedroom ( [03:01] ).
  • Troy observes the presence of Attorney General Chris Mays and County Attorney Rachel Mitchell among the witnesses.
  • The setup includes three closed-circuit TV monitors displaying overhead views of the condemned, Aaron Gunch, laid out on a rectangular table with prepared syringes.

Troy Hayden [04:17]: "You can see the syringes. Yeah, they're laid out."

• Execution Process:
  • Troy notes the efficiency of the process, with the execution commencing promptly after the necessary preparations.
  • He recounts Aaron Gunch's demeanor, describing him as subdued and unresisting, which adds to the eerie atmosphere of the event.

Troy Hayden [04:14]: "And you can see the syringes. Yeah, they're laid out."

Emotional and Psychological Insights

Troy delves into the psychological state of both the condemned and the witnesses, offering a rare glimpse into the emotional complexities of executions.

• Condemned's Perspective:
  • Aaron Gunch appeared calm, continuously gazing at the ceiling without displaying signs of panic or distress.
  • Troy speculates whether sedation played a role in his subdued state.

John Holmberg [06:37]: "Was it a little surprising that he was so subdued?"

Troy Hayden [06:37]: "He was, his eyes were blinking super fast. His mouth was cotton. You could tell he was under the influence of some sort of a sedative."

• Witness Reactions:
  • The presence of multiple reporters aims to ensure unbiased coverage.
  • Troy recounts correcting inaccuracies during the post-execution press conference, emphasizing the importance of factual reporting over personal bias.

Troy Hayden [15:01]: "Sometimes I think they're just looking for stuff."

Troy's Experience with Body Recovery

Beyond covering executions, Troy shares his background in body recovery operations, highlighting his hands-on experience with law enforcement agencies.

• Canal Recovery Mission:
  • Troy narrates a harrowing experience of recovering a body from a canal, detailing the procedural safety measures and the emotional toll it took on him.

Troy Hayden [12:31]: "You have to go through all these different safety protocols where you've got a whole team on the other side of the body. Down, down canal."

• Emotional Impact:
  • Despite the emotional challenges, Troy finds value in his work, gaining insights that enhance his reporting.

Troy Hayden [13:50]: "Every single one of my edgy stories, I get a flash in my stomach... But then when you're done, you're like, I'm really glad I did it."

Discussion on Media Coverage and Bias

The conversation shifts to the role of media in covering executions, with a focus on maintaining objectivity and avoiding bias.

• Ensuring Fair Reporting:
  • Troy emphasizes the necessity of multiple reporters to provide a balanced perspective.
  • He stresses that his role is to deliver accurate information, allowing viewers to form their own opinions on capital punishment.

Troy Hayden [16:44]: "Local news has no room for political or ideological bias. We need to be straight down the middle."

• Challenges in Reporting:
  • Addressing discrepancies in witness testimonies, Troy explains how he maintains integrity by correcting misinformation during live broadcasts.

Perspectives on the Death Penalty and Execution Methods

Troy offers his candid opinions on the death penalty, discussing its implementation and potential alternatives.

• Current Execution Methods:
  • He critiques the current methods, mentioning the inefficiency and inhumane aspects compared to alternatives like the firing squad.

Troy Hayden [25:20]: "Firing squad, by the way, statistically, is the only method of execution that has never failed."

• Legislative Changes:
  • Troy discusses ongoing legislative efforts in Arizona to reintroduce the firing squad as a preferred method of execution, citing its reliability.

Troy Hayden [25:20]: "There's a bill in the legislature... Firing squad... it's the most humane."

Interactions with Family Members of Victims

Troy shares his interactions with family members of victims, shedding light on the lasting impact of executions on their lives.

• Karen Price's Testimony:
  • Karen Price, sister of the victim Ted Price, expresses that the execution did not bring closure, highlighting the enduring pain and loss experienced by families.

Troy Hayden [18:42]: "Karen Price... a hole in their family that opened up in 2002 when her brother was murdered... it will never be filled."

• Seeking Closure:
  • Another witness conveys that legal closure does not translate to personal healing, underscoring the complex emotions tied to the death penalty.

Final Thoughts and Reflections

As the episode winds down, John Holmberg reflects on Troy's invaluable insights, acknowledging the professionalism and dedication required to cover such challenging topics.

John Holmberg [22:43]: "Consummate professional. Thanks, man. Have a great day."

Troy reiterates his commitment to fair and accurate reporting, encouraging listeners to tune into Channel 12 for unbiased news.

Troy Hayden [27:46]: "I love being over at 12 News. They got some good stuff over there."

Conclusion

This episode offers a profound exploration of the complexities involved in covering executions, through the experienced lens of Troy Hayden. Listeners gain a deeper understanding of the procedural intricacies, emotional challenges, and ethical considerations that shape media coverage of capital punishment.

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Notable Quotes:

• Troy Hayden [06:37]: "He was... under the influence of some sort of a sedative."
• Troy Hayden [15:01]: "Sometimes I think they're just looking for stuff."
• Troy Hayden [25:20]: "Firing squad... it's the only method of execution that has never failed."
• Karen Price [18:42]: "There's a hole in their family that opened up in 2002... it will never be filled."

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For more engaging discussions and insights, tune in to Holmberg's Morning Sickness weekdays from 5:30 AM to 10 AM on 98 KUPD or visit www.98kupd.com.

Transcript

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[Brady]

You're listening to the HMS podcast brought to you by MMP guns.com your most trusted online marketplace for firearms, ammunition and accessories.

[John Holmberg]

You've been deceived by an agent of Satan himself.

[Troy Hayden]

He's evil.

[Brady]

Sitting right here. Come on.

[John Holmberg]

No, no, he's not. He's not evil.

[Troy Hayden]

He's just a bit rude.

[John Holmberg]

There he is. That is the Miles to know or thank you. That's the theme song. I had people talking to me about that last night. Mark Asher evidently listens quite a bit and he said, man, that song you got those girls singing in the morning, that's catchy. I might have to go see them. I'm like, they're a blast. Miles to nowhere. So much fun. And then he, and then he said, who does the Katie Hobbs voice? And like, oh, that's Katie. She pops in every once in a while, loves Brad. And that's. Katie's always here. We were talking about the execution and stuff. I talked to Troy Hayden from Channel 12 yesterday. He's back on the phone to give us a little more insight now that it's over. Mr. Hayden, are you there?

[Troy Hayden]

Yeah, morning, guys. How are you?

[John Holmberg]

What's up? How are you? You're up this early every day? Didn't you stop doing mornings for a reason?

[Troy Hayden]

You know what, though? I'm not doing nights nights anymore, which is nice. Well, I'm home at about 7:30, have dinner and yeah, hit the sack. Early to bed, early to rise.

[John Holmberg]

When do you go in?

[Troy Hayden]

I go in. Well, I attend a morning meeting remotely at 9:30 and then jump in the shower and I'm in probably like noon. 10:30. Noon, noon. Which is nice. And I do a 4, 4pm show, 5pm, do a report for the 6pm show, and then I head home.

[John Holmberg]

There we go. Well, that's perfect. That's. That's. Well, you've earned it. Troy You've done this long enough that.

[Brett]

You can go sound Friday.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, I feel like I, I've earned it. And they keep making me get up at 4 in the morning. Goddamn travesty.

[Troy Hayden]

Because you're a big star right where you want to be in radio. I know that.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, but you don't. After 20 something years, you're like, I want to, I want to sleep in. I want my morning show to start around noon. I want the Hayden schedule, damn it. Let's, let's. Yesterday, maybe yesterday you had your, you had the, the execution. You're, you saw your fifth one. I saw just a quick report of you saying it was the most efficient that you've witnessed and maybe in the history of what we've done. Tell me what, tell me about your day yesterday.

[Troy Hayden]

Okay. Well, I don't know how much detail you want me to get into, but, you know, yeah, this, this administration of Department of Corrections, I feel like they really know what they're doing. And yeah, I've seen five of them. This one went like clockwork. You know, we got called in about five minutes before the execution. So at 9:55. And it's an eerie thing.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Troy Hayden]

Walking into that execution chamber because it's only about 10 by 15. It's like the size of a kid's bedroom. I mean, think about that. It's tiny. Yeah. So.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, wait, the whole room, including where.

[Brett]

You guys sit, or that's the room where you sit.

[Troy Hayden]

Where we sit. 10 by 15.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, yeah.

[Troy Hayden]

So you walk in, there's three rows of benches. So we walked right in. I looked to my right and I saw the Attorney General Chris Mays, and the County Attorney, Rachel Mitchell. They were the first two in there. And they were sitting in the back row of the first row of benches. And then we walked all the way to the third row of benches and I wasn't sitting in the second row. So about maybe four or five feet from my knees is a window that goes the length of the room. So it's lengthwise, you sit in this room and behind that are black curtains. And the black curtains are closed. So we sit down, we look up above the curtains in the window and there are three closed circuit TV monitors. Two of them are overviews, overhead views of the table that he's going to be strapped down on. And so you can see kind of a long rectangular table with two kind of places where his arms will be. You know what I'm saying? Like two arm pieces of table and then the middle one, which is really eerie. Are Eight syringes.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, my God. And they're laid out.

[Troy Hayden]

You can see the syringes. Yeah, they're laid out.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, wow.

[Troy Hayden]

And you can see there's, like, little, I guess, like, valves on the end of each one that they'll turn before they hit the plunger. So that's where we were, and we were ready to go. And right at about 10:01, just from the monitors, we saw Aaron Gunch, is the condemned walk in. He was wearing a white jumpsuit, white socks, and he climbed up on that table and laid down, you know, without a struggle at all. There were five people around him from the Department of Corrections. One guy kind of grabbed his head and, you know, positioned it. And then there was one person on each extremity, one on each arm and leg. And they strapped him down, put a blanket over him, and walked out. And at that point, I remember, because there was a little bit of a delay, and I remember looking at him. He wasn't looking at us at all. He kept looking right up at the ceiling. The sister of Ted Price, his victim, was there, and she was intently watching him. So the whole thing is very intense.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, yeah.

[Troy Hayden]

As you can imagine. And he looked up at the ceiling, and I remember thinking to myself, what is going through his mind right now? You know?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, I'm blown away by that, because it's the thing where, again, you've seen a few of these. Has anyone shown complete panic every time they show this stuff? Like, they never show the execution, but they talk about on tv, nobody ever seems to be, like, screaming, no, no, no, no, no. Or like, their brain seems to have been so accepting of it all that you just have to. Yeah. What are you thinking? It would be interesting to talk to someone, right?

[Brett]

Look at Troy Hayden.

[John Holmberg]

Or not. I've seen him for years. Sometimes they'll acknowledge someone in the room. Right. I've heard in the past, yeah, they've been, oh, hey, there's that guy from blah, blah, blah. But this guy, just the last one.

[Troy Hayden]

I was at, it was even worse. It was Clarence Dixon. And the victim's sister was sitting there, a woman named Leslie, who I've gotten to know a little bit. And he looked over at her and said, huh, I'm gonna see Dina soon. Oh, yeah, it's all gonna be great. Oh, yeah, he's talking crap to her. Because you can hear him now. They have a microphone. You can hear him.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, my God. And so, yeah, because John Wayne Gacy's last words were, kiss my ass. And you looked out at the people witnessing and said that. So sometimes. So you, you don't know at all sitting in there what's gonna happen. Like, there has to be, like, what's going through your mind? Like, you're like, okay, what do I expect here? Having known the story or a little bit. I mean, was it a little surprising that he was so subdued?

[Troy Hayden]

You know, they give them the option, or had in the past. Doc did not comment on this, this time of having a mild sedative. He appeared to me to be under the influence of some sort of a sedative. He was, his eyes were blinking super fast. His mouth was cotton. You could tell, like he was, you know, you know how you have cotton and I have a feeling that that was, you know, that he may have been, you know, sedated a bit.

[John Holmberg]

Okay. Yeah, that, that would make sense to me. And if they give you that anxiety. Yeah, you certainly, certainly want that. I mean, I took Valium before an eye surgery just in case, you know, I'm not going into, you know, my execution. If they offered me some stuff that's going to call me, I'll do it. But it's so strange because they never, like, flip out or fight back or anything. I mean, you have nothing to lose there. Take a swing, do something. And no one ever does.

[Troy Hayden]

Yeah, it's a good point.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Troy Hayden]

Yeah. You know, the weird thing is, so the entire Florence prison complex is shut down. This is the original Florence State Prison. It was actually built by convicts back in, like, the early 1900s, but it got all outdated. So the only building in this entire complex still being used as the death house. So when we drove in there, all the gates are open because there's no, there's nobody in there. You just drive in. It's an empty prison and it's just this little tiny house at the very back of the original Florence prison with probably a 50 or 60 foot smokestack coming out of it, like a little stove pipe smokestack, because that's where they used to vent the gas from the lethal, lethal injection and the gas chambers right behind you.

[John Holmberg]

God, that's so weird. Yeah, I, I, I find this whole thing fascinating. Even though I'm, I'm, I'm totally fine with the death penalty when it comes down to it, like the, the, the protocol of witnesses and family members and all that other stuff. I'm always shocked that it's very rarely eventful outside of maybe a few terse words or something. It's very rarely like, wow, what an event. That one that you went to 10 years ago that didn't work very well is probably the only one that was messy. And it wasn't because the condemned said anything or did anything crazy. It was just a botched deal. It's fascinating. So you've seen when you were younger, Troy, did you get into the news because you thought you had a stomach for the strange? Because when you and I talked a while ago, you told me, you know, bodies in canals, you've. You've seen some stuff.

[Troy Hayden]

I recovered a body out of a canal, yeah. You know, I'm not sure what it is. I've just. I've always had a natural curiosity.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Troy Hayden]

I was the weird kid who read the book of Lists and the Guinness Book of World Records and literally encyclopedias when I was a kid. I just love learning. And so I found that if I wanted to learn every day and make a decent living, because, you know, you can do okay in this business, that. That's where I went. I started off in newspapers, actually. I started off working construction and things. I did all kinds of jobs, really. And then, you know, start off in newspapers and then transition into television. But, yeah, to me, it's like I love the fact that I go to work every day and I learn something every single day.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. I'm not going to let you get away with starting a conversation with, I fished a body out of a canal once and then told me you did construction start over. What do you mean you fished a body out of a canal? So is this for work or what are we doing? Yeah, you jumped right over that. That's the strangest. Why? Fished body out of a canal once. You guys want to go grab some food? I'm like, no, we.

[Brett]

That's what I knew I wanted to do.

[Troy Hayden]

News.

[John Holmberg]

We're going back to first things. You get the call to help fish a body out.

[Troy Hayden]

Yeah, I. I started working. So the way my business works, to give away kind of pull the curtain back, is you kind of have to dip your toe into different agencies and then build your yourself up. Up to, you know, big stories. So I started working with America County Sheriff's Office. This is years and years ago. And I wanted to do some of their underwater type stories, recovery, searching, all those different things. So I ended up hooking up with the lake patrol because they're the people who are out on the lakes and they dive the salt river and all those things and got certified to dive and went on a couple of training missions with them and continued to build up and build up to the point where they said, we think you're ready. You're full face mask certified. You can come along with cameras the next time we go to recover somebody. Because I always thought that was fascinating to dive down and recover somebody who's drowned. Right. I mean, you're diving in water, wanted.

[Brett]

A bloated body to pull up. I just couldn't identify.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, that is. I'm with you, though. If somebody trained me, I'd be all over this.

[Troy Hayden]

Isn't that fascinating? So, you know, after working with them for, you know, several months, maybe even a year, it was a Saturday afternoon, and I got a phone call from the head of the dive team, and he said, hey, we've got somebody. They're in a canal down by Picacho Peak. And it was basically people who were coming up into the US Illegally, and they got stopped by a DPS and they ran out into the desert. And when I got there, I walked out to the canal, and you could clearly see three sets of tracks going into the canal on one side, but only two sets of tracks going out on the other side. So the third guy didn't make it. And he was about 150 yards down the canal. He had. He didn't make it. So I don't know how detailed I should get.

[John Holmberg]

Details, man. Keep going. Yeah, get dirty. Make stuff.

[Troy Hayden]

You know, they're very careful. These canals are very dangerous, obviously, you know, and there's more current than you expect. So you have to go through all these different safety protocols where you've got a whole team on the other side of the body. Down, down canal. So in case anything happens, they can fish you out. Right, right. And then you've got a team at the top of the canal, and so you're all tethered and you're working together. So the guy says to me, all right, you want the head of the feet? Because you have to grab. Somebody has to grab a wrist and somebody has to grab an ankle. And I said, okay, I'll. I'll take the wrist. He's like, okay, good morning sickness. Hear the words you say sometimes. I mean, who talks like that?

[John Holmberg]

Holmberg's morning sickness.

[Troy Hayden]

So we get in the water, we go down. The visibility was pretty good, which is, you know, sometimes these guys search literally with their eyes closed because the visibility is so bad. They just search with their hands.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, my God.

[Troy Hayden]

Which fascinated me, as I could see. So we get down to the guy they had slowed down the flow of the canal for us, which they can do. So it wasn't super treacherous. And There was a guy, he was a young Hispanic guy. I could tell he was face down in the canal. He had panicked and kicked off all of his clothes. All he was wearing was a pair of underwear. I remember that. And they were red. And he was face down in like the mud of the canal. So I'm like, okay, this is very intense. I go up, I grab his wrist, and right at. And I thought to myself, I just don't want to see his face. And right at that moment, I don't know what happened, but there was a jerk or something and he spun over and his face ended up like 3 inches off my nose and it was covered in silk.

[John Holmberg]

You're dream.

[Troy Hayden]

And he looked like. Yeah, he looked just strained and he did not have a good time going. You know what I'm saying? It was frozen on his face. And I can still, like right now, as I'm telling you that story, I.

[John Holmberg]

Can see his face. Yeah. And do you feel. Oh, my gosh. So when. When you, when you got close to that, did you have a moment? Like, I don't want to do this anymore.

[Troy Hayden]

Every single one of my edgy stories, I get a flash in my stomach and however you want to, like, what the hell am I doing?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. You know? Yeah.

[Troy Hayden]

But then when you're done, you're like, I'm really glad I did it. And now I know. See? And you're like, why'd you even do that? Well, first of all, it's interesting to go through it. But now every single time that I cover a story on a body recovery, I know exactly what they're doing.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Troy Hayden]

And so I can tell the viewers, you know.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Troy Hayden]

I can say, okay, here's the first thing they're going to do. Here's the second thing they're going to do. And this is, this is challenging because of these conditions, you know.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. And you can relay that easier because. Yeah. You've been through it. So it's like using a product. You can't. You can't pitch it until you've used it. That's insane. So will you do more of the. I. Do you know what you got me thinking yesterday when you said how important it is that the witnesses and things like that are there. And I always wonder why so many media members. And I guess that's because if. I mean, I'm going to guess. You tell me. It's because you can't have a bias if there's multiple reporters. Right. Like, somebody could go in there with a thought about this and think, I Hope it hurts. I'm not going to say if it does. She had three or four people from different news outlets. Yeah.

[Troy Hayden]

It was five yesterday. And I did have. You know, there's one. One of them. And I don't want to call them out, but, you know, they reported something in front of everybody that I didn't think was correct.

[John Holmberg]

It was a blond lady. I watched you correct her.

[Troy Hayden]

Yeah. Was that her, though? I guess There was two then.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, it was the one from channel 15.

[Troy Hayden]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Troy Hayden]

Yeah. And somebody. You know, the thing is, I. Sometimes I do these things. I don't even remember what happened. I know what I even corrected her on. But the other person said, yeah, there were people on the. Because instead of having executions in the past, I've seen.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Troy Hayden]

They put in an IV in an arm and an IV in a leg. And this one, they didn't. They put in two IVs in an IV in each arm.

[John Holmberg]

Okay.

[Troy Hayden]

And so one of the. The witnesses said, yeah, they were having trouble putting in the IV in the left arm. And I said, I didn't see that. I mean, there was no problem. I don't even know what you're talking about. There was two people on the left arm, but there's never a problem. It went in as fast as if you go in and give blood.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Troy Hayden]

I don't know. Sometimes I think they're just looking for stuff.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. Was that her first time watching, do you know? Okay. So. Yeah. So she's probably. You're right. Yeah. She's probably, like, assuming it's her job to find something wrong or say she saw something because then she wouldn't be doing her job. But, like, what you said little bits of things when you were, like, it was as smooth as it can get. Like, that's another reason why I think what you said yesterday was kind of important. Like, look, I've seen a few of these things. I've seen it go bad. I've seen it go average, and I've seen it go really well. This is as good as it gets. Don't look for things that aren't there.

[Troy Hayden]

Yeah. And it's not my job to tell the viewers whether or not capital punishment is right or wrong. You know, that that's where we get into trouble. And I see a few different people. Not a lot. But local news. There's no room in local news for political or ideological bias. We need to be straight down the middle. And I work hard every day to be fair and accurate. I tell all reporters, anchors, everybody. If you're fair and accurate, your viewers will respect that they can make up their own minds about things.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. And that's, that's what I've known about you for a long time because I've known you personally and you're basically Kanye West. Off the air, I mean, you're nuts. Yeah. But on the air, no, it's, it's, it's very true, you know. Yeah. I'm not your swastika shirts always throw me. I don't know how you get away with that. But the, the crazy thing is, is like Walter Cronkite was a globalist and nobody knew it. Nobody knew like his, his worldview was very skewed to like if you were to sit and talk to him about things, he was evidently. And I don't know that this is like third hand information. He had some political views that were a little bit askew from normal, but you would never know it. And that's what, that's why he's got a school named after him is because the dude was absolutely just information first based on his experience with it. And I think that's like. You're so right. Local news has tried so hard for a ratings chase that we don't want just information. We want a spin. And so it is kind of refreshing. When I watched yesterday, I only caught a few minutes of it, but you stood up and said, nope, that isn't exactly what happened. That's your. And you were very pleasant about it. And I took it as she's saying something to say I saw something that was there, like to make sure that everybody knew there was something extra. Like it was her first time. And I think her job in her brain was I'm supposed to notice if something goes wrong. So I looked for extra things like even little twitches and stuff that may have not been normal to her, but are completely normal. This situation. So it is important to have like four or five people watching it.

[Brady]

Restaurant review.

[John Holmberg]

Well, yeah, it's four or five people have to see it. I figured I. It is. Well, Brady will always bring it back to that. Yeah, it is exactly a restaurant. It's like, check, please.

[Brett]

I wasn't greeted at the door.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, it's check, please. Arizona on pbs.

[Troy Hayden]

But it was a five star execution. I can say that.

[John Holmberg]

So yesterday. Yeah, it's going on Yelp pretty high. Yeah. It's fascinating and good. And thank you for being the person who does that. I think it's kind of amazing. Now, the family members and stuff that were at the execution yesterday, you get to talk to them or is it kind of hands off, Is it real quiet afterwards or.

[Troy Hayden]

Yeah, they keep you away from them on election, on execution day. But I will say that Karen Price is the sister's name. So there's an attorney named Colleen and I forget what her last name is, but she's kind of a victims advocate. So I was able to get in touch through her with Karen before she came out here. She lives on the east coast and, and you know, and that's it. I don't know if you saw the whole news conference yesterday, but I started off by saying there's going to be a lot of talk about this execution. Arrogant. But we all have to keep this victim Ted Price in mind because Karen told me that there's a hole in their family that opened up in 2002 when her, her big brother was murdered that is not filled, hasn't been filled since and it will never be filled. And it wasn't filled yesterday. You know, I'm saying, but at least the legal process is over. You know, I talked with another woman who saw an execution who that I attended and I asked her to give you closure. She said, no, it's never, I'm never going to get closure because my sister's gone and her 21 year old sister was murdered. She said, but the legal process is over. She says I'm no longer waiting for a letter in the mailbox saying there's a new hearing or there's some technicality has come up. She said, I know it's, it's over. And that's, that's what Karen said yesterday as well.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, that's got to be because they're.

[Troy Hayden]

There through no fault of their own.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. The only closure comes from the idea that you just never have to deal with this person being alive for another day and infecting your world and open up those wounds every time they do something and yeah, like court case or hearing or something, they say or something gets out or a lawyer's calling, it's, that's over. And that's the only clue because they're going to live with the pain forever. Is there ever an advocate in the room? Is there equal sides represented in the room of witnesses where somebody who's against the death penalties there?

[Troy Hayden]

Yeah. The gentleman sitting directly in front of me yesterday is a guy named Dale Bash who is very well known in town and you know, he's kind of a watchdog over the whole process. I think he was a federal defense attorney for a while. But you know, at this Point. It's the law. And that's what I say to people. If you're anti death penalty, totally valid for you to be anti death penalty, but don't take it out on Department of corrections or police. Talk to your legislator.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Troy Hayden]

You know, make the call. Get a bunch of your neighbors together. Yeah. Try to change the law. It's still about 5,347 in favor of capital punishment in Arizona, but that's close.

[John Holmberg]

It is close. And do you think that his. His perspective is skewed and, like, he's almost hoping it goes wrong?

[Troy Hayden]

I don't want to get into his head, but I can say there have been enough problems with the process over the years here in Arizona that if you're even leaning, I can see where you'd say, look, we need to do a better job. Here's the biggest problem I have with death penalty. It does get kind of random.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Troy Hayden]

I mean, almost every one of these murders, you can say there's an aggravating factor. I'm going for the death penalty. And a lot of it comes down as to whether or not you can afford it. If you go to smaller counties, they can't afford a capital case. It costs exponentially more than a regular case.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Troy Hayden]

You know, so, like, there was an awful murder in Lake Havasu where little kids were killed, and they're not going after the death penalty because they can't afford to prosecute her.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. Because it's not just one trial either. You're setting yourself up for at least two, maybe three. But it has cost a fortune to get that done. Yeah. I never even saw it, like, a smaller place. It's such a. It's like Mars to me. It just. To me, I just don't understand, like, any of the. Like, what causes it in the court case. But I'm fascinated by all of it. I just feel, like, too stupid half the time to understand what's going on.

[Troy Hayden]

Oh, God. You're one of the smartest guys I know.

[John Holmberg]

I know I baited you. You said it. But no, thank you. You're wrong. But that's sad for the people.

[Troy Hayden]

Even though you never hang out with me and never go bike riding. It's gonna be 110 degrees before we go bike riding.

[John Holmberg]

That's when I ride my bike. Troy, you gotta come with. You didn't have a helmet last time. He's insane, this guy.

[Brett]

You needed to hydrate last time.

[John Holmberg]

And then we just rode around and we hydrated. Afterwards, we did a pretty good job of that. Well, Troy, thank you for your time, man. I literally just sit back and listen to you talk about this all day because it is from a perspective of somebody who gets, like, how to deliver information and that's kind of lost in this world, so. Consummate professional.

[Troy Hayden]

Thanks, buddy.

[John Holmberg]

Excellent job. And, man, oh, man, it's just. It's. It's a world I don't understand, but I'm glad there's people like you who do it. Thanks, man.

[Troy Hayden]

Can I put a bow on it really quick? Just finish it up?

[John Holmberg]

Oh, yeah.

[Troy Hayden]

So, you know, one of the reasons I think it's so smooth is they got those IVs in in no time at all. And within I would say, five, you know. Okay, so they've got the IVs in, and then on that video screen, we saw them push one plunger. And we understand now that's a saline solution just kind of like, you know, getting things moving in the iv. Then they hit the green one. And within probably two minutes of that green one going in, we saw him wince a little bit. Like, sometimes when you get an injection, it's a little painful. That's what it looked like. Burns. And then the color drained from his face and he stopped breathing. I had him down within four minutes. So like I said, it was. It was very fast.

[John Holmberg]

How come it takes so long? Like four minutes seems like a long time when I, you know, I've had a lot of animals I've euthanized, and it's like.

[Brett]

Seems like they go like in 30 seconds.

[John Holmberg]

I mean, they said, yeah, but they have a stethoscope on. And then the. The doctor always goes, okay, she's gone. And it. Yeah, it doesn't seem like it's that like. And, yeah, yesterday I was like, wow, that's like. That's what they're calling fast. Like they called it in like 13 minutes or something like that. Officially, I can't remember the number. That seems long to me.

[Troy Hayden]

Well, you know, because from what I understand, pets. When you put your pets down, you're still able to use the really effective drugs that we can no longer use in human executions. Remember I told you about anti Death penalty forces have been very effective at pressuring drug companies not to sell the departments of corrections, you know, so now they're using different drugs that just aren't as fast. The first execution I saw was. Was very fast. It was in probably like two minutes. When everything's done. The words you say sometimes, I mean.

[John Holmberg]

Who talks like that? 98K Holmberg's Morning Sickness.

[Troy Hayden]

But, you know, it's just in my estimation of four minutes, like, his breathing did slow down for sure, but the time I for sure never saw his chest move again and saw the color go out of his face was probably. Yeah, three to four minutes. I'd have to look at my notes again, but.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, well, okay. I'm not done with you. As, As a person who's seen this stuff, do you think that there's a better way? Do you think that, like, having seen some things and heard some others from other witnesses and stuff, is there a more humane, although still probably pretty violent way to do this?

[Troy Hayden]

Yeah, I mean, you know, there's a bill in the. In the legislature right now that if it passes out and looks like it might, that we will get to vote as voters here in Arizona decide whether or not we want firing squad back in. And firing squad, by the way, statistically, is the only method of execution that has never failed. Every other one has failed.

[John Holmberg]

No kidding.

[Troy Hayden]

So, yeah, so, I mean, that may come back. And, you know, we saw nitrogen. I've never seen a nitrogen execution, but that's kind of like gas where there's gasping and, you know, so. I don't know.

[John Holmberg]

I mean, it's all the same. Like you said yesterday, it's like, you know, the end result is the end result, but. Yeah. Would you go to a firing squad one?

[Troy Hayden]

Yeah. No, I think it's like I said, and this is not something that I enjoy doing.

[John Holmberg]

No.

[Troy Hayden]

But I think it's important for me to be there. Yeah, absolutely. I think, I think I would try as hard as I could to get to the first firing squad.

[John Holmberg]

Me, too.

[Troy Hayden]

Just to report and, and again, have perspective on. Here's how it's different from what I've seen before, you know.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, you need to get a buddy pass for that one. I'm coming with for that one because I just, I, I, that's just archaic to me, but I, you know, I think it's the. And honestly, if that's the end result, that's the one that I think is the most humane.

[Brett]

And you said the setup is the same on that. There's multiple guns. You don't know where that's.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, they have seven. They used to. In Utah, they used to have seven. And I think two live rounds and nobody knew who had the.

[Brady]

Everybody else or blanks.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. Troy, this is amazing. So keep doing what you're doing. Are you happy at channel 12? Are we going to see him moving around again?

[Troy Hayden]

Oh, I love it. You know, my old place, I had such a good time there. I was there 30 years. Have you been. Have you been there 30 years yet?

[John Holmberg]

You got to be close 24 here. Yeah, pretty. Almost 30. Yeah, it's a lot.

[Troy Hayden]

So you love KUPD? It's been really good to you. It was the same thing with me at my old place. But, you know, I had done the morning show over there for eight years. And that morning show, you've watched it, you know, you open up coffee shops, you do a little bit of news, but it's mostly like fun and hosting and that whole thing. And I wanted to get back to this. So, you know, my. My Boss at channel 12 is. This was my boss when I worked night side at Fox 10 doing all the Jodi Aria stuff and all the cool stories I used to do over there. And he's kind of like, hey, want to get the band back together? And I was like, absolutely. I want to do that stuff again. So I've got this last run of my career here. It's going to be a nice, good run rec and get out and do some hard news. So, yeah, I love being over at 12 News. I think it's. And I think that product's getting better every single day. So your listeners, if you have a chance, tune in at 4, 5, 6 and 10 and see what you think.

[John Holmberg]

They go, get rid of channel 10 and 3 and 5 and all that. Just watch Troy on 12 and that's. And tell Karibe I said hi and if she wants to bike ride with us next time, she's great. She's more than welcome. We'll bring her in.

[Troy Hayden]

Okay. Yeah, I'll give the invite.

[John Holmberg]

There you go.

[Troy Hayden]

She doesn't live too far from you. Actually, she could bike right over to your place.

[John Holmberg]

Don't say that. I'm gonna start stalking people. Troy, don't do that. Troy, thanks for everything this morning. Have a great day. Tell the zoo lady hi.

[Troy Hayden]

You got it. Thanks, guys. Love the show.

[John Holmberg]

Thanks, man. Thanks, Troy. See you. There's Troy Hayden, Everybody from Channel 12. Man. That is a. That, to me, is fascinating. That was mostly for me just enjoying the idea that we have that. And when Troy said that yesterday, it's like, no, we need to watch this just in case. I watched a little of the, like a post game press conference from all the witnesses, and Troy corrected this lady who said, yeah, there was this. This didn't necessarily go right. And like. And I remember watching thinking, this might be your first time and you're Just saying everything that happened and trying to make it not quite great. And Troy just stands up and he goes, I didn't witness any of what she just. It was. It was just. It was beautiful. Like, man, there you go. Execution yesterday. Never Talked to anybody 24 hours after 1 of those before. Neat, man.

[Brett]

If it goes firing squad, a whole.

[John Holmberg]

New level, that firing squad is just a.

[Brady]

But it's like he said, that it's never failed.

[Brett]

It's flawless.

[Brady]

It's never failed.

[John Holmberg]

Yes. Seven guns digitally aimed, as far as I understand, used to be laser aimed. That you don't. A guy doesn't have to, you know, scope it out. They're on these deals that go to one spot. Every gun is calibrated perfectly to the same thing, and then a guy just comes up, and they all click their spot. This is the old way. I don't know if they'd have a new one that would be probably mechanical or there wouldn't be human beings on the other end of the gun. I think.

[Brady]

I think. I think Utah still does. The humans.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Troy Hayden]

Doing it.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. And it's just seven aimed at one. But there was that guy from. Was it Czechoslovak? Czechoslovakia? Ceausescu. He and his wife were executed that way. And I think every. Every single one of the guys had a bullet because they were ready to get rid of that guy. I remember watching the head.

[Brett]

Right?

[John Holmberg]

A lot of those. Yeah. Yeah. But like he said, you know, yesterday, all the people that were in the room were in, like, white veils with masks, so you don't recognize any of the human beings that are in the room doing all the work. It's crazy humanity. Such a strange beast. Just do it Brett's way. Wrap him in a thing of carpet, put him in the canal. Troy will go get him.

[Brady]

That's what I heard.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. While he was telling that story of the body in the canal, I saw Brett sweating. God damn it. I hope this isn't one of mine. Oh, good. It's one of the Mexicans that fell in. We didn't do that one. 7:12. That was. That's awesome. So Troy Hayden, channel 12. Ditch all the other ones. Forget it. I mean, I'll. I'll peek in on Holly Bach every once in a while. I'm not gonna lie. But still, they got some good stuff over there. Troy's a good dude. And then when we didn't even get into the last meal and the. You know, Carl's Jr. And they're, you know, I wonder if Carl's Jr's happy that they're getting this much press, especially out of me, because their whole deal is if you don't get any on you, you're not doing it right. So did his white suit have some barbecue stains? We should ask that, huh? I gotta ask Troy again.

[Brady]

Come on, Brady.

[Troy Hayden]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Where were you?

[Brady]

This is your department.

[Brett]

Catch so much heat talking about, you know.

[John Holmberg]

You did bring up the restaurant. Yeah, you do.

[Brady]

Although we had somebody offer to bring us double Western bacon cheeseburgers, but it doesn't travel there. Wants to bring them down to us.

[John Holmberg]

I would love to, but it doesn't travel.

[Brady]

Well, the fries don't.

[John Holmberg]

Well, that's what I want. If I can. If I'm eating that double Western bacon cheeseburger and I don't have fries, it's. It's not right. Although I would want that. That's pretty good.

[Brady]

Sounds pretty good.

[John Holmberg]

No, we're gonna leave it on the. Maybe later. Thanks. But we might make that call another time. And then again, you got some looney listener who's like, I don't know about that. You guys can eat it. I'll watch if you guys stay alive. If you all go Tracy Morgan in the next couple seconds, we'll see.

[Brady]

Give it to Brady, Hilly.

[John Holmberg]

He'll eat anything. It's all good, guys. I think it's working. We can eat it. He's still alive.

[Brett]

No, you're not gonna like this.

[John Holmberg]

I just had some of that double Western bacon block fever. Tracy Morgan is our tester. Brett, what do you got on the big board of Musical Treats?

[Troy Hayden]

Wake up.

[Brady]

So I'm brought to you by, of course, our buddies over at Action Ride Shop, Josh and the boys taking care of you now with two locations. The brand new one over there on Power Road. McDowell. If you haven't been out there, if you're a bike person, that is the place to be. Right out there by Hawes. So power Road and McDowell, as well as the OG location right there on Gilbert Road and Southern Action Ride shops. Gonna take care of you. And my screens aren't working too good here. Hang on.

[John Holmberg]

People are emailing like crazy about, like, their thoughts on, you know, what's going on with the death penalty and things like that. And one guy says the most humane and effective execution method is the guillotine. Fast. No, pain always works. You've seen why they stopped the guillotine. The guillotine, it wasn't always working. They get. They got three quarters of the way through people's heads sometimes and had to push it.

[Brady]

Oh, it worked every time for Alice Cooper every time he goes on stage. I don't know.

[John Holmberg]

Maybe that's what Bruno Michael is emailing me. I've seen that a hundred times, and it works every time. I gotta say, Alice Cooper's little guillotine trick. If you wanted to go see something fun at a show, put in some earplugs, skip all that music that he's gonna puke at you, and just watch the guillotine.

[Brady]

He does put on a good show, right? Just, you know, I would rather just.

[John Holmberg]

Watch him pantomime everything or maybe play somebody else's album.

[Brett]

Does he do it every time?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, he's. Yeah, that's like the.

[Brett]

It's gonna happen this weekend.

[Brady]

Yeah. And he'll run out with the snake and everything else.

[John Holmberg]

It takes him a little longer to get down on his hands and knees because he's a hundred. Maybe his son does it now.

[Brady]

Oh, it's still him. I saw him because he was. He was with. It was Rob Zombie, him. Ministry. And he still does the guillotine, still.

[John Holmberg]

Does it on all on his own. And everybody still just goes, there it is.

[Brady]

For as old as he, man, the dude's still got energy. I got to give it to him.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, absolutely. He's done Sons games and stuff, and they prop him up there on that stage for like a halftime thing. Like, he's.

[Brady]

I mean, I'm sure he's icy hotting afterwards, but, I mean, he's.

[John Holmberg]

You know, he's got some Voltaire. What do you got up on the list?

[Brady]

Infectious grooves. Lamb of God. Now you've got something to die for. Static X, Deep Purples Burn for all them Teslas that keep getting burned up. Motorhead again Killed by Death Shinedown, Mud Vein, the Police. King of Pain for Troy Hayden, because apparently he's the king of executions now. Ozzy Gnr and Gojira Man.

[John Holmberg]

King of Pain. Such a good song. But I associate it with all the DJs that I first got into radio with, using it as the poop song because it was seven minutes long at the Zone. So if you ever heard the album version. Evidently not the radio. I was. I was only working behind the scenes back then. It wasn't on the. It was a. It was already a classic by the time I. But they were like, oh, King of Pain's on. That means somebody's got to poop. So now when I hear King of Pain, I just think Jim Sharp's crapping, because he would always go, grab Johnny, grab me. King of Pain. Like, okay. And then he put it in there. And he goes, watch the board for me for a little bit. And he disappear for six and a half minutes of the seven minutes of that album version. And he'd come back all spry. And now, evidently, his partner, ladonna. Hey, Sharp, grab the police. I gotta drop the kids off at the pool.

[Brett]

I know what you're up to.

[John Holmberg]

I'm taking the Browns to the Super Bowl. Kid play King of Pay.

[Brady]

Are you sure?

[John Holmberg]

Ladonna. Ladonna's spoken sharp anyway, so I want to hear it.

[Brady]

But that's worth it.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, I gotta drop a huge one. I got turtle head poking out of this thing. We're touching canvas, Sharp. I don't care. Whatever. You pick. God, there's some dumb ones on there.

[Brady]

Oh, yeah.

[John Holmberg]

I don't know.

[Brady]

Let's just do Killed by death. We've been talking about death.

[John Holmberg]

Okay, Motorhead. Killed by death. Yeah, that's true. That is true. Troy. Digging around in those canals. When Troy and I went bike riding, we were on the canal and he said, you know, I've pulled a body out of one of these before. And I'm like, no kidding? And I'm like, what's he doing? So I rode a little faster. I didn't want to hear the story. Then I thought he was going to try to kill me. You know, I've put bodies in and taken them out of canals. I'm like, we shouldn't ride the canal anymore. Yeah, his stories are great, but being in the news, I mean, you get kind of numb to that whole stuff. But, yeah, he's a pro. Troy's really good and fun, like most news people you think wouldn't be. He's like, troy's a blast. Yeah, you get him going. He's fun.

[Troy Hayden]

It's not weird. It's pretty cool, actually.

[John Holmberg]

No membership fee. I have heard enough of this.