03-26-25 - PHX PD Officers Suspended Following Excessive Force Take Down Of Deaf Man w/Cerebral Palsy

Summary

Holmberg's Morning Sickness – Arizona: PHX PD Officers Suspended Following Excessive Force Take Down Of Deaf Man w/Cerebral Palsy

Episode Release Date: March 26, 2025

Introduction

In the March 26, 2025 episode of Holmberg's Morning Sickness on Arizona's #1 Morning Radio Show, host John Holmberg and his co-hosts Brady Bogen, Bret Vesely, and Dick Toledo delve into a disturbing incident involving the Phoenix Police Department (PHX PD). The discussion centers around the suspension of two officers following their excessive use of force against a deaf Black man with cerebral palsy during a takedown at a Circle K on 16th Street in Indian School. This summary encapsulates the key points, debates, insights, and conclusions from the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who did not tune in.

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Background of the Incident

The episode begins with Dick Toledo bringing attention to a recent and troubling event captured in video footage. The incident involves PHX PD officers suspending their duties after using excessive force on a vulnerable individual:

• Description of the Incident: The officers approached a man who was deaf and had cerebral palsy. Misinterpreting his movements and inability to respond verbally, they used tasers and physical force, mistaking him for an erratic and potentially dangerous suspect.

• Conflicting Reports: Toledo highlights the confusion surrounding the incident, noting that initial reports were conflicting. Some accounts described the individual as a White male accused of an assault, leading officers to the wrong suspect.

  "They didn't know he was deaf and had cerebral palsy. They thought he was erratic." [00:47]

Analysis of Police Actions

The hosts engage in a nuanced discussion about the police officers' actions, exploring various angles to understand what transpired:

• Lack of Awareness: A significant point raised is the officers' unawareness of the man's disabilities at the time of the encounter. This lack of knowledge contributed to their aggressive response.

  "They just thought he was erratic. He was deaf, so he couldn't communicate." [02:22]

• Dispatch Information: The conversation emphasizes the role of dispatch in shaping the officers' response. The hosts speculate on what information the dispatchers provided, considering whether the description led officers to incorrectly identify the individual.

  "It all depends on what dispatch told the police, what they thought they were driving up to." [06:20]

• Racial Bias Considerations: The racial aspect of the incident is critically examined. The man’s identity as a Black individual added a layer of complexity, potentially influencing the officers' perception and actions.

  "He's also black, which is the worst nightmare for a cop who just attacked a guy." [02:23]

Impact of Disabilities on the Encounter

A central theme of the discussion is how the man's deafness and cerebral palsy affected the situation:

• Communication Barriers: Being deaf meant the man couldn't hear commands, such as "freeze" or "lay down," leading to misunderstandings.

  "If you couldn't hear, you're in survival mode." [09:14]

• Physical Movements Misinterpreted: The movements associated with cerebral palsy were mistaken for erratic behavior, prompting the officers to act aggressively.

  "He was moving that way because of cerebral palsy, but they didn't know that." [03:21]

Consequences for the Officers

The episode explores the repercussions faced by the involved officers and the broader implications for PHX PD:

• Suspensions and Public Reaction: The officers were suspended, sparking a debate among the public. Some demand their termination, while others suggest they were placed in a challenging situation without full information.

  "The cops got suspended. The people want him fired." [02:23]

• Potential for Racial and Disability Rights Violations: The incident raises concerns about systemic issues within the police force regarding handling individuals with disabilities and racial minorities.

  "If dispatch said we’re looking for a black guy, then they went after him regardless of his disabilities." [07:42]

Broader Implications and Recommendations

The hosts discuss the wider implications of the incident and propose potential measures to prevent such occurrences in the future:

• Training and Awareness: Emphasis on better training for officers to recognize and appropriately handle encounters with individuals who have disabilities.

  "Proper training is needed to handle such situations." [11:54]

• Dispatch Accuracy: Improving the accuracy and detail of dispatch information to ensure officers have a clear understanding of whom they are approaching.

  "What were they told? The dispatcher could have been wrong." [07:42]

• Public Perception and Trust: The incident highlights the fragile trust between law enforcement and the community, especially among marginalized groups.

  "I'm black. I'm already worried when the cops pull up." [09:20]

Concluding Thoughts

In wrapping up the discussion, the co-hosts reflect on the complexity of the situation, acknowledging the interplay of miscommunication, possible bias, and inadequate training. They express the need for a balanced viewpoint, considering both the officers' potential lack of information and the disproportionate use of force exhibited.

• Reserve Judgment Until All Facts Are Known: The importance of withholding final judgment until a thorough investigation is completed is underscored.

  "We have to reserve judgment on what dispatch told those two cops." [09:17]

• Call for Accountability and Improvement: A consensus is reached on the necessity for accountability within the police force and the implementation of measures to prevent similar incidents.

  "It's just a horrible mix-up. They came out pretty hot and should have taken a moment to assess." [05:13]

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "They didn't know he was deaf and had cerebral palsy. They thought he was erratic." – Unknown Host [00:47]
• "He's also black, which is the worst nightmare for a cop who just attacked a guy." – Unknown Host [02:23]
• "If you couldn't hear, you're in survival mode." – Unknown Host [09:14]
• "Proper training is needed to handle such situations." – Unknown Host [11:54]
• "We have to reserve judgment on what dispatch told those two cops." – Unknown Host [09:17]

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Conclusion

This episode of Holmberg's Morning Sickness provides a thorough and engaging examination of a sensitive incident involving PHX PD officers and a vulnerable individual. Through candid discussions, the hosts shed light on the complexities of police interactions with people who have disabilities and the potential influence of racial biases. The conversation underscores the necessity for improved training, accurate dispatch communication, and thoughtful evaluation of law enforcement tactics to foster a safer and more equitable community.

Transcript

[Dick Toledo]

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[Unknown Host]

You're listening to the HMS Podcast, brought to you by mmpguns.com your most trusted online marketplace for firearms, ammunition and accessories.

I'm just reading this article about these have you seen this thing about the cops that are suspended for they attack that as he's a deaf black man with cerebral palsy and they tased him a couple of times and they didn't fire the guys. There's all sorts of conflicting ever everything. It was over on 16th street in Indian School. It's a horrible video to watch because now okay, I'll say this. All things have a middle. Let me start there. It's a horrible thing to watch when you know he's deaf and has cerebral palsy. If you didn't he he just looked like an erratic suspect that had just been described by the guy who called in freaking out. But then there's the second part of the story where somebody said another call came in that described a white guy as somebody who had just attacked someone at this Circle case. So the cops come pulling into the parking lot and there's a guy kind of quick walking. You don't know he's got cerebral palsy, but it looks like he's and then he tries to go around the truck real fast and the cops are screaming, stops. But he's deaf, so he just kind of loses another cop, comes out and punches him. It's not good. The cops got suspended. The people want him fired. But I mean, I can only imagine what's running through the cop's mind. They get a call, says, we got this guy just attack somebody. There he is. You go, freeze. Don't you make fun of me. And they buzz him a couple times, throw some punches. And then later I'd like to be in their minds who were like, you realize he had cerebral palsy? Well, we didn't know that. And that's why he was moving that way? Nope. We just thought he was erratic. He's also deaf, and that's why he couldn't. We didn't know that.

What a combo.

And he's also black, which is the worst nightmare for a cop who just attacked a guy. So I don't know if there's going to be like, cerebral palsy, Black Lives Matter marches. But this, if there's ever been a time, and I would pay to watch that march, it's going to take forever. But, yeah, you get a cop and you're like, oh, oh, Mr. Funny man, huh? Put your hands up. You make fun of me, do you? Wise guy. So turns out, didn't do anything wrong. He was raising his hands and trying to tell him, I can't hear, like, doing it, but it looked like he was going crazy. So I'm all for the suspension. I'm going to give a little benefit of the doubt here that they drove into a bad situation. Now, the other side, you're absolutely right. If they called in and said it was a white guy and they just attacked him, now it's just racist. Has nothing to do with him being deaf or cerebral palsied. What do you call that? Cerebral.

Cerebral palsy.

No, I know, but how do you be like cerebral palsy, but when you've got it, what are you? You're a cerebral palsy sufferer. Anyway, that has nothing to do with it. If it's just attack the black guy. They didn't even care that he was deaf or had it. They were going to get him no matter what. It's bad story.

But again, so you're looking at it, you're saying, this is not proper police.

I can't look at it without the knowledge of cerebral palsy and deafness. So I go into a jaded. Because I'm like, oh, he's deaf. He can't hear you. Yeah, but they don't know that till after. So if I get to a fight with a guy at a bar and I'm swinging and it turns out at the end you're like, you know, John, you did all the work on that. He's got CP and he's also deaf. He was trying to help. And I'm like, I. It got out of the. It got out of hand. I mean, I'm gonna give you that. So, John, remember when you took Josh Blue on Camelback Mountain? You tried to kill him. And again, we had some fun with that, but had I not known and I ran into Josh on the mountain, I Would have tried to help him, thinking that he was having a stroke or something. Then later he'd tell me, no, I got some posey.

I go, okay, in that situation, how could have gone. Just let the guy go around.

They came in pretty hot.

Question.

I didn't where the video starts.

You just let the guy go.

They're coming in pretty hot. Well, no, you go into a thing, you get a call that. And they say that matches the description from one of the calls. From what I'm reading, they come in pretty hot. But again, they're going to a call. Nobody said, we're looking for a black guy with CP and he's deaf, by the way. They didn't know. So they said, we're looking for somebody who just assaulted someone armed. And this is. He's hanging around this Circle K and the guy kind of makes a move to go around the truck when they pull up. So they automatically go, he's up to something.

And so the real perp got away.

Yeah, I don't know. I didn't see that part. I was laughing too hard at the.

I gotta see this video.

That video is pretty good. I mean, it's bad. It's bad and everything. The punishment's gotta go that way. But you know, middle. There's a middle. Suspend them. Came in a little hot, boys, you think? Came in a little hot. Coming in a little hot there, fellas. And like maybe a little hot. Could have taken a second to assess and de escalate. Yeah, maybe a little bit. Instead you just came shooting out of the car and start beating up that. Now he starts fighting back. But that's what I would do if I didn't. I'm like, what the hell happened? But again, he couldn't hear them. Imagine if you can't hear and a cop car pulls up real fast and you're like, oh, I gotta get out of here. I'm not. I don't have anything to do with this. I might start running too. Like, ah, I gotta go. If I couldn't hear. And then they say, stop getting away from. You guys evidently have a job to do. And then they look at him. So it was just a lot of perfect storm stuff had to happen.

Yeah, it's a mix up.

Well, yeah, but it's gonna be tough when you tase the hell out of the mix up. You punch em a couple. I'm tired of you and your funny talk. I don't sound like that. Obey the law. Knock it. You're pissing me off. You want to get Tased again. Look at Davey's mocking you put him down. So they're like, well, and then they did. Then they just had to sit in the office with their boss. Palsy death. We didn't know that at the time. So admittedly it looks terrible. So there's a group of people that want him fired. There's a group of people who are mad at the suspension. I get it. But again, I want to give a little bit of the benefit of the doubt that they came in with it. Just, we have to know what they were told. You have to. That has to be the part of the cop story. What were they told? We're looking for a black guy who walks fast and screams. He's incoherent, he's drunk or he's outside rigs. Yeah, well, it doesn't matter. Like, the dispatch will say, this is what we're. Black shirt, black guy walking away, assaulted, maybe has a weapon and he's. He's screaming crazy. Well, there he is. But we have to know what they were told because the dispatch could have been wrong. Now if they say it was a white guy in a white T shirt and they just jumped out and beat up the first black guy they saw. Yeah, you got to fire everybody.

You see this video, trying to find it.

It's on AZ Family, but it's, it's kind of. It's going to be. It's going to bubble up. I would assume these guys will be fired because, you know, hindsight's delivered all the information. It's a tough one. And it all to me, it all depends on what the dispatcher told the police, what they thought they were driving up to. If on the description it says we're looking for a black guy who, he's moving around pretty shady and he just attacked somebody and he's not listening. If they were told those things.

Armed, right? Potentially armed or has.

Well, they, yeah, they went into it. Well, he'd assaulted someone, so I wasn't sure about. So they just, I mean, look how fast they. And there he is, just kind of like, what the hell's going on? He's. He can't hear him. And they get out hot. They. The cops get out and start going after him. Morning sickness. Disgusting. They say things that are horrible. Hol's morning sickness. And another one comes over and punches him and throws a taser into him. And they tased him a few times. They go back inside and like, did you get that white guy? He's like, what white guy? We got a crazy Indian code talker. Black guy outside. Well, that's not him. Oh, boy. Yeah. They're just swinging away on the dude because he's. He won't listen to commands because he's deaf. It's impossible to watch the video. Oh. And not, of course, because, you know.

Yeah. You know that.

Yeah. But you know that. If you didn't know that, you're in survival mode.

Sure.

I'm black. Yeah. I'm already worried when the cops pull up. I mean, he's deaf. He's not, you know, unaware. You just don't know. The cops went nuts that day. That's all he's thinking. Slurpee is like, wow, that's crazy. Can't hear the sirens. Just sees a cop car come blazing up at him. So from his perspective. Yikes. He fighting back. Just thought two cops just went totally nuts. Or there's more to that too. But it all just. We have to reserve judgment on what dispatch told those two cops because if they told them we're looking for a guy who's erratic. Black guy just attacked somebody at the Circle K. There he is.

It's just a horrible mix up.

That's.

I mean, I don't.

It all depends on what they thought they knew. You still shouldn't come out that hot. They came out pretty hot. I mean, the one dude's running from the driver's seat to the beat up point, there's no stopping.

Yeah. And maybe you could just say, I need you to stop.

Sure. And there could be a possibility. Done here. Could be a possibility. They were saying that over the speaker of the car.

Right.

And they're like, he's not listening to anything. Well, they didn't know. Now they do. Hindsight's 20 20, I like to think so what if that guy was a.

Guy before that got assaulted by the crazy white guy?

What do you mean? Oh, yeah. Maybe he's the victim. Yeah. He's staggering around. Anyway. It's not good. It's not good. Oh, Kyle says, found the info the cops were given. They were told to look for a skinny black guy going crazy and answers to. That's not true. Terrible. Ye. Anyway, so I'm fascinated by it because I'm like, video will definitely crush this. And you have to have the ability in the brain to watch the video thinking they did not know these three things, you know, and they're trying to sort it out. It's a little too late to sort it out.

That's what I'm. Yeah.

But if you go over onto the intercom police. I want you to lay down right now. And you're in the car. I said lay down. And he's just going like, this guy's an. Put him on the ground. Always trying to get away. Of course he is. But that's with the knowledge now that he was deaf and had a thing. If you didn't know he was deaf and had a thing, you might think he was just high or something, man.

Blame it on the deaf school or not. Proper training.

You see a cop car, just put your hands up, lay down. Yeah, you don't get uppity with a palsy and deafness. Just lay down. I'm deaf and I've got palsy. I better just. And then the cops would walk up and tap in. Shoulder. What are you doing? We're just here for a donut. Like deaf. I got palsy. I saw you guys coming in kind of hot. But anyway, it's not a good story. I'm not for anybody getting fired from stuff. But I also think that, you know, if it does turn out that they didn't get an accurate description and that's just the dude they attacked, it's. It has nothing to do with being deaf or palsy. They went after him. They did come out hot. But like you said, you don't know.

You don't know what they heard on the radios.

Yep. Walking into a situation, you just don't know. It ain't pretty, though. You know, it ain't pretty. That's. That's. If I had a handicap, the last thing I would want to say, like, I hate when, like, if I was stricken and people always say, we just want to be treated like anyone else. Uh, I want special treatment. I want loads and loads of special treatment. I don't want to be treated just like everybody else. I want you to know what's wrong with me all the time and give me stuff for it. Don't treat me like everyone else. That this. This stuff starts happening. I don't. I got the palsy. I better get some special treatment around here. If I had palsy, there'd be hallway ramps being built. New ones every day. I'd be taking advantage of that like crazy. If I was Thriller, this place would be catering to me.

Oh, yeah.

But he always says, I just want to be treated like everyone else. Why you got the leg up?

He's got the great parking spot. I mean, we'll give him that.

They never say that. They never complain about that.

Perks.

You would be treated like everybody else. We're taking down the signs. You got to park with us.

And no happy birthday and never get.

A happy birthday in email. We're taking down those parking signs. But that's my special spot. If you want to be treated like everybody else, you got to circle a lot just like us and get that front row.

You know what? When he pulls in today, let's tackle.

Him, knock him on his ass, tenderize him.

If there wasn't Amazon, I'd be going Christmas shop with Thriller every year. Parking spot right up front at the mall.

I mean, it's not a bad idea. You can utilize the HOV lane on your way to the mall and then park up front and just. You guys can't park there, you know. Oh, sorry. Sure can. My mom used to do that. My mom used to make me limp. That's a true story. We'd park and she goes, all right, there was nowhere to park. She'd park in handicap and she'd make me limp. And I'm like, okay. I didn't realize how that's kind of dumb on my mom's part because I was just a kid. Like, you don't get handicapped parking for a kid.

But nobody's gonna question.

Nobody said anything. And I would limp all the way through the store.

When I worked at a Lincoln, dealer was mostly old people. That, that time we'd, when we'd go to lunch, we'd find out who had what car to test drive, who had handicap plates. And then, all right, you're turning, you're going.

And we would limp. I would put, I'd go full, I'd go full, pull hands in the position. My mom would laugh like, this is terrible. And we'd walk just when quick runs. We're running in real fast for some butter, maybe some milk. I got to go in there real quick, limp like okay. Nobody did a thing about it. And then sometimes we'd go to the store and I was fine.

Then you meet the couple people that just re up the placket like their parents.

Yeah.

Had passed away and they got it.

Well, there's not much better than going anywhere with Paula, my 94 year old lady friend. Not like that. That sounded bad. But we'll go out.

She can, you can post it up.

Her placard is some of the. And handicap parking. I'm telling you what, it's a great thing. It's just the price you have to pay to get to it. It's 9:12. Terrible story. But I want to live in the middle with it for a minute till we find out what dispatch told those guys. It'd be great if dispatch, like, we're looking for a black guy who waddles around a little bit and moans, be careful, he's got a gun. I mean, take him down, boys. If you see him, drop him. We're on it. There he is. Immediate wise ass waddling around my parking lot. You knock it off. Anyway, we got a rock wars coming up in just moments. And no, it can't be about this. Or maybe it can. We'll find out who's got it next. It's 98 Rock. It's out of control now, 98.