10-02-25 - Unhinged Listener Ernie Fires Off Another Response Leading John Into A Discussion On Subtext And Reading Between The Lines In Emails And Movies

Summary

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Episode Overview

Theme:
This episode of Holmberg's Morning Sickness centers around the art of reading subtext—both in the context of unhinged listener emails and within movies. John Holmberg and his regular crew (Brady Bogen, Bret Vesely, and Dick Toledo) navigate an entertaining discussion about how we often miss what’s hidden beneath the surface, whether it’s the real meaning in a baseball movie or provocative correspondence from passionate listeners. Along the way, they tackle memorable films, the peculiarities of fans, and poke fun at their own experiences with English class metaphors.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Saga of Unhinged Listener "Ernie" and Email Subtext

• Listener Ernie's Over-Eager Responses:
  Holmberg discusses a listener ("Ernie") who bombarded the show with emails after getting a personal reply.
  • Ernie agreed to "consolidate" his thoughts to one or two emails a day, which Holmberg wryly appreciates.
• Wild Accusations & Humor:
  Ernie's emails are nonsensical and filled with taunts, calling Holmberg a "Gay communist, Trump supporter" and suggesting he hasn't come out yet.
  • Holmberg responds tongue-in-cheek, embracing the accusation by saying:

    "I'm just born this way, so I am gay. I identify as a gay whenever there's trouble because you can't tell me I'm not. That's the new world we live in." (02:03)

2. Subtext in Literature and Movie Critique

• Learning About Subtext:
  The discussion launches into how Holmberg’s high school teacher introduced him to the notion that "not everything is as it seems" in literature and film.
  • The "boring" experience of reading Hemingway's The Old Man and the Sea versus its symbolic meaning:
    • "Everything was a metaphor and everything had subtext. He wasn't just fishing. It was a life's journey... his struggles and all that." (03:43)
    • Brady: "When you're reading it, it's just a guy pulling a shark and having it getting eaten. A lot of pages." (03:55)
• Movies: The Natural, Top Gun, Field of Dreams & More:
  A deep dive into how popular “sports movies” aren’t actually about sports, but instead use sports as a catalyst for deeper issues like sexuality, aging, or personal relationships. - "People don’t realize… Top Gun's about being gay. It's like finding your way in life between battling your sexuality. That's a fact." (02:35) - "The Natural... has nothing to do with baseball. You could have put basketball in there. Be careful who you surround yourself with—that's the subtext." (07:05) - Field of Dreams: "Not about baseball; it's about a father and a son." (05:22)

3. Debate: What Makes a Movie “About” a Sport?

• George Will’s Theory:
  Referencing George Will:
  • Only Bull Durham is truly “about” baseball; in most sports movies, the sport is just a setting.
• Bull Durham, Moneyball, Major League:
  • Major League: “Just a comedy about the hijinks of baseball players. Not about the game.” (05:36)
  • Moneyball: "It's about Billy Beane, a process, not about baseball per se." (07:20)
• For Love of the Game, The Rookie, A Perfect Game:
  • The consensus: these movies are about love, aging, or other themes, not actually about the sport itself.
    • "It's a broad movie. All about love." (06:04)

4. On Golden Pond & Movie Metaphor

• Interpretation of On Golden Pond:
  • Catching "Walter the Fish" is a metaphor for the main character facing mortality.
    • "They did catch him and they realized, oh, it's right in front of us the whole time. And he. And that was his mortality." (09:43)
    • "The joy was knowing he was there the whole time." (10:15)
    • "It's a beautiful story about mortality… sometimes it's right in front of you." (10:26)

5. Football Movies & Why They Don’t “Work”

• No truly “About Football” Movies:
  • Any Given Sunday, The Longest Yard, North Dallas Forty, The Last Boy Scout
    • They’re ultimately about corruption, overcoming authority, or action—football is just the backdrop.
  • "There hasn't been a good football movie ever…" (12:58)
• What Would Make a Sport Central?
  • You shouldn’t be able to swap the sport for some other topic and keep the same movie.
  • “It has to be about football. People can still be human beings, it doesn't have to be X's and O's… but it has to be… you can’t replace football.” (13:17)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Subtext and “Gay” Accusations:
  • "I'm just born this way, so I am gay. I identify as a gay whenever there's trouble because you can't tell me I'm not. That's the new world we live in." — Holmberg (02:03)
• On Reading Hemingway:
  • "That's the most overrated. You know how I know [Old Man and the Sea] is boring? They've never made a good movie out of it." — Holmberg (04:05)
• On What Sports Movies Are “About:”
  • "The only [movie] that's ever been about baseball is Bull Durham, where baseball is the theme. All other movies are about something happening and baseball's in the center of it." (05:14)
• On Movies About Mortality:
  • "The joy was knowing [Walter the Fish] was there the whole time…It's a beautiful story about mortality, dealing with the end and recognizing that all that distractions in your life… Sometimes it's right in front of you." (10:13 – 10:26)
• On Football Movies:
  • "There hasn't been a good football movie ever. Remember when you tried it with… Damon Wayans and Bruce Willis were in that… They needed a murder." (14:00)

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Important Timestamps

• [00:00 – 02:30]: Listener Ernie’s unhinged emails and Holmberg’s satirical self-response about “gay communism”
• [03:40 – 04:20]: The pain and subtext of high school literature (Hemingway and The Old Man and the Sea)
• [05:10 – 07:30]: What sports movies are really about—debate over Bull Durham, The Natural, Moneyball, etc.
• [09:34 – 10:26]: Dissecting On Golden Pond and movies as metaphors for life and mortality
• [12:58 – 14:26]: Why football movies never feel like they’re actually about football

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Tone & Language

The tone throughout the episode is irreverent, playful, and quick-witted—full of digressions, teasing, self-awareness, and a deep love for movies and pop culture. Holmberg’s deadpan humor and sarcasm set the mood, while the rest of the crew jibes in with supportive banter and movie references.

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Summary

In this episode, Holmberg and the crew blend comedy and media analysis as they field wild listener correspondence and peel back layers on why we love movies about sports (even if they’re never really about sports). From analyzing the hidden homoeroticism of Top Gun to skewering the “meaning” found in high school English class, the episode is a clever look at how subtext shapes both our understanding of movies and the signals we send each other—even “unhinged” listeners like Ernie. Whether you're a film buff or love a good rant, there’s plenty here to keep you entertained—and thinking twice about what your favorite movies are really about.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And everything was a metaphor and everything had subtext. He wasn't just fishing. It was a life's journey, the representation of. Of his deity and his belief system and his. His struggles and all that.

[B]

When you're reading it, it's just a.

[A]

Guy pulling a shark and having it getting eaten. A lot of pages.

[B]

Can't we just get to the metaphor?

[A]

Right? Can you just be more blunt about this?

[B]

You don't appreciate as much.

[A]

No, I didn't appreciate it at all. And first off, to anybody who has to read that for anything, it's boring. That's the most overrated. You know how I know it's really boring? They've never made a good movie out of it. A good book will make a good movie. And I know book readers always say, oh, no, A lot of times the books are better than. No, they're not. It's too detailed. The reason a movie's better than a book is because they cut out all the unnecessary stuff. And if it's a good enough story, it'll make a good movie every time. But they've never made Tracy did he do the Hemingway. Yeah. Horrible. We had to. And that's the worst part of school. We'd had to read it and then they show us the movie. Do that in the other way. How come we can't watch the movie first? Because it gives away everything. And I get it, you want us to learn to read and stuff. But the subtext part stuck with me. I'm like, oh, not. Because basically what they were saying was it was kind of conspiratorial. Not everything is as it seems. So I started watching movies totally different after that. And right around that time, the Natural came out. This isn't about baseball. I like baseball movies. The great George Will said that there's only one movie that's ever been about baseball, and that's Bull Durham, where baseball is the theme. All other movies are about something happening and baseball's in the center of it. All of them. Field of Dreams is about a father and a son. Major League. Major League is a little bit about. But it's not about the baseball. It's more of just a comedy about the hijinks of baseball players. But it's not about the game of baseball. The only one that actually is this Field of dreams. The speech is about the love of baseball. What it does for this, what it does for that. But just because baseball's in the movie doesn't mean it's about baseball. Baseball is the catalyst for it, you know, like, what about the one, The.

[B]

The pitching one? Kevin Costner's movie.

[A]

No, that's pretty. That is a love movie. That has nothing to do. That's just a guy playing baseball. No, no, no. For love of the game.

[B]

No, he leaves.

[A]

It's a broad movie. It's a broad movie. It's all about love and maybe I'm.

[B]

Thinking connection and the family one, too. Was it Dennis Quaid, where he was the.

[A]

The rookie.

[B]

The rookie.

[A]

No, that's about overcoming all odds of age. It's an ageist movie. The baseball is the catalyst for him finding his way.

[B]

A perfect game.

[A]

It's not about baseball. It's not a movie going. Baseball's the star of this film, and we're going to analyze baseball.

[B]

Well, I think that was a perfect game.

[A]

That's kind of Perfect game. What's that?

[B]

Where he's pitching the perfect game and they're. What's going through his mind.

[A]

That's for the love of the game. Yeah, that's the Kevin Costner one. And it's Kelly Preston, and she ruined his life and he ruined her life. And they Couldn't. And so all he's doing is. He's not even thinking about baseball. He's thinking about love. The whole movie's about getting his girlfriend back. At the end of the no hitter, he doesn't even enjoy it. He goes to the. To the. It's the most unbelievably cliched ending of all time where he finds her at the airport after. Come on. I don't think. No, George Will was right. There are movies with baseball in it, but the movie is not about baseball. It's baseball. And then inside it's about the characters of it.

[B]

Sure, Bull Durham's up. Moneyball would be about baseball.

[A]

That's about Billy Bean.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's about a process. Baseball was the. You know, you watch a movie like Wall Street's not about the banking business. It's about dudes taking care of greed. They announced that this is about greed. This could have been placed in any setting. Holmberg's morning sickness and the Natural, that's all about. Watch who you date. Be careful. There's women who will take advantage of you because you're the best. Especially if you're the best at something. Beware of who you surround yourself with. That's the subtext of the Natural. It has nothing to do with, like, baseball. It's just he's great at baseball. He could have put basketball in there. It would have been the same movie. You put it any sport. It wasn't about baseball. It was about whatever he was doing, what he endured. Well, it was about him being the greatest at blank. Replace baseball with anything and that movie's the exact same movie. That's it. You just. On the. You know, you pull the train over on the side of a road and then he blocks the shot of the greatest basketball player three times. It had nothing to do with the sport. It's just the one they chose. That one was about bitches be dangerous. That's all the Natural is. And it's great. And it's also kind of like the way On Golden Pond was. Sometimes the thing you. You seek is right in front of you and you look everywhere for it except for where you least expect it. Glenn Close was that in the Natural. Walter the fish. And On Golden Pond was an old man's journey to say, I've reached to and fro to cat. That was his white whale. To find my white whale. And he was right here in my cove the whole time. Couldn't Bull Durham be about aging, too? You know, Kevin Costner was little, but it's a tribute to the game. And his. His. The love story in that was his love of baseball. It was his love of the game. Had nothing to do with a girl. He. His love speech tour was all about baseball. Oh, I know, but I mean him just aging out as well. I mean, still personalities. But you couldn't replace that with football. Couldn't be done. And he's right. It's a great movie too. There's very few like that subtext and.

[B]

Didn'T like On Golden Pond.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Point of like, they've been trying to catch Walter the whole time. Then when they almost had him, he's like, let's just leave him.

[A]

They did catch him and they realized, oh, it's right in front of us the whole time. And he. And that was his mortality.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm facing the end and he's facing the end. Because I thought that we met.

[B]

Did the line break or they did catch.

[A]

No, they caught him. We put him back. And they never really told. They just. They just went back and told everybody we caught Walter. And then at the end they're like, but we put him back. He deserved it. And that was a metaphor for Henry Fonda's life, which is, you know what? I. I've met all my goals. It's time to go. There's no reason to punish him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No.

[B]

No reason to mount him.

[A]

That's what I. Yeah, there's no reason for that. I'm not gonna get any joy. The joy was knowing he was there the whole time.

[B]

You're talking about, I catch him.

[A]

He beat me a million times. I finally got him and that's all I needed. Let's put him back.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

It's beautiful story about mortality. Dealing with the end and recognizing that all that distractions in your life, going here and going there. Sometimes it's right in front of you. Natural's the same way. That ugly broad was waiting for him the whole time. And thank God she was ugly and nobody in that small town wanted her. Well, she had that trophy with her. She. Yeah. And he left her with paying for that. He left her in a small town with an F trophy through that. And everybody knew in this. You know, everybody knew in the town. You know whose boy that is? That's Roy Hobbs. And he skipped. Roy Hobbs is Toledo's dad. Roy Hobbs bailed and you know, she showed up every once in a while. Remember when she showed up in Chicago? Or he went to her house and she showed him a picture of the kid and he gotta go. He knew a go he put the coffee down and he left. Get a game tomorrow against the Cubs. I don't have time for this. And he left again. I'd like to see you again.

[B]

He thought it was the Whammer's kid. That's why I left.

[A]

He didn't. She had a picture. And he looked. He's like, I gots to go. That's a little blonde Robert Redford, baby. I'm leaving. He knew it wasn't Wilford Brimley's. That's for sure. It's missing from a lot of movies. Just the. The depth of meaning. Most people just watch it for what it is, and that's easy, too. But be careful. You don't think that was Pops's kid? No. Pretty sure Wilford Brimley's kid would look just like Wilford Brimley came out of the. Wilford Brimley's first words were diabetes. I think he said dada. Diabetics. Oh, no, he's saying diabetics. You got diabetes. I got diabetes. Anyway, this guy says, George Will is not correct. Bull Durham had more about morality than baseball. Major League as well. Well, there's. There's also different points, but the whole movie is based. Baseball can't be replaced in the film. It is about love of baseball. A man's passion doesn't have to be another person. He poured it all into one thing. And then when baseball let him go, you know, he moved on to the girl Major leagues. About getting a lady naked. It's silly. Good. I'm watching a show. Black Rabbit started watching that. The Jason Bateman Show. And that thing's got some depth to it. There's a lot going on in that. Boy, oh, boy. Jason Bateman, who's the most likable person in the world, is the scum of the earth in this thing. And you still can't help but like him because it's Jason Bateman. That's a good show. Highly recommend that. Anyway, I go on. There's no. You know what? There's never been a good one. A good football movie like. Because it can't be about football. It has to be about something that happens to football players. They tried it with the Oliver Stone one any given Sunday, but that was just about corruption and crooked people and drugs and everything else.

[B]

What are you looking for? Like the. The coach side, making plays. I mean, the closest thing would be hbo.

[A]

No, because that's. You're. You're talking about the detail in the. I'm talking about the subtext of that. You Cannot replace this film with anything. It's. It's about football. Yeah. People can still be human beings. It doesn't have to be X's and O's the whole time, but it has to be a. You can't replace football. That movie wouldn't be the same. You could put. Soccer could have been the sport they chose and had the same exact things happening in that movie. Exactly. Like movies that show that it's the love of the game. It's a very like. It's a. It's a deeper meaning than what you're actually watching. It's like, oh, I see. It's this guy's passion. Baseball is the star of the movie. There hasn't been a good football movie ever. Remember when you tried it with. Was it. Damon Wayans and Bruce Willis were in that.

[B]

The quarterback one way terrible.

[A]

And that guy just shot somebody on the football field because football wasn't holding it together. They needed a murder. North Dallas 40 is the closest one, but that was just about the Cowboys. And we'll talk to one soon. Longest yard long Shards. That's a. That's a prison movie. Those are good. That's a good one. The original. Right? That's. Oh, yeah. You don't watch the Adam Sandler one. Yeah. That's a movie about. Again, that's overcoming an authoritarian. It could have been anything. Dale's in here. In just a little bit. He's going to talk to us about all of his drug days in North Dallas, Florida, because that was about the team he joined 10 years later. Six years later, actually. We'll talk to Dale. Hell street, three time world champion, is going to join us in just a minute. It's 98, Arizona's most powerful rock radio station. He said, fully erected.