10-09-25 - Thursdays w/Former Dallas Cowboy OLineman Dale Hellestrae - Dale's Thoughts On Jonathan Gannon Getting Physical w/Player On Sidelines - Picks For Week 6 NFL Games

Summary

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Episode Overview

Main Theme:
This episode of Holmberg’s Morning Sickness features the regular Thursday segment with former Dallas Cowboy offensive lineman Dale Hellestrae. The hosts (John Holmberg, Brady Bogen, Bret Vesely, and Dick Toledo) dive deep into NFL Week 6, focusing on the Arizona Cardinals’ recent struggles—particularly the fallout from head coach Jonathan Gannon's physical sideline altercation with a player. They analyze what this means for the team, share thoughts on coaching culture and leadership, and make their weekly NFL picks.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. State of the Arizona Cardinals (06:15–10:00)

• Both Holmberg and Hellestrae entered the season expecting marked improvement from the Cardinals, but recent performances have left them disappointed.
• Dale notes the third year of the current coaching regime is typically when a significant leap should happen—but it’s not appearing this season.
• Dale: "Third year of this program, [I] like the coaching staff... and they cratered so bad Sunday that... it’s going to be tough for them to win two or three more games this year." (06:30)
• The Cardinals have lost three consecutive games on the last play each time, raising questions about their mental toughness and execution.

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2. The Impact of Coaching Staff Changes (07:01–08:47)

• Dale draws attention to Clayton Adams, former Cardinals offensive line coach, now the Dallas Cowboys’ offensive coordinator.
• He credits Adams for Dallas’ surging offense and questions why Arizona let him go:
  • "When we lost him, I said ... he’s a hell of an offensive line coach." (08:40)
• Both hosts note a lack of physical play, suggesting the current Cardinals line is "talented but soft."

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3. Jonathan Gannon’s Sideline Incident (10:32–24:00)

• Incident Recap: Cardinals RB drops the ball at the one-yard line; Gannon reacts physically on the sideline, punching the player twice (once in the head, once in the stomach).
• Holmberg: Critical of Gannon’s loss of control—"When you’re not supposed to hit someone, you shouldn’t hit him... especially if you rare a couple back…" (15:32)
• Dale: Shows some old-school understanding but acknowledges the move went "too far"—"I had a coach grab my jersey one time... but you’re allowed to put your head—I understand, it went too far. He punched him twice." (13:54)
• The crew references past incidents of coaches getting physical, noting the shift in what’s acceptable: "Frank Kush lost his job in 1979 for this. And he hit a punter. I know why... You pick your victim, right. You ain’t hitting Calais Campbell." (19:21)
• There’s disagreement on whether a team should "suck it up" or if a physical incident irreparably damages leadership and trust.

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4. Player Response & Leadership Fallout (18:37–30:14)

• The guys analyze whether the team’s reaction indicates softness or justified pushback against inappropriate coaching behavior.
• They observe that none of the player’s teammates intervened:
  • Holmberg: "That says a lot too about the camaraderie of the team and the disconnect from going on there either." (27:41)
• Discuss if Gannon’s apology helps or further undermines his authority:
  • Dale: "Trying to keep the team together. And maybe that’s why you’ll see them lose the next two." (30:44)
• Holmberg: Argues that apologizing and being unable to manage emotions signals lost leadership.

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5. NFL Picks & Game Analysis (32:12–37:58)

• Crew makes their NFL Week 6 picks—discuss Bears vs. Commanders, Bengals vs. Packers (with Flacco’s bizarre trade/flight story), and Cowboys vs. Panthers.
• Dale: Picks the Cowboys to "put up another 35, 40 points" with confidence in Clayton Adams as OC. (36:43)

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6. Quick Takes on Local Sports & Season Outlook (38:13–39:11)

• Reflections on Mercury WNBA Finals hype and Phoenix Suns preseason.
• Holmberg: Cynical about the Suns after repeated disappointments—"27 wins, that's my line right now." (38:48)
• Light banter about the city’s sports fortunes and expectations.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Gannon Incident:

  • Holmberg, [15:32]: "When you’re not supposed to hit someone, you shouldn’t hit him. I don't disagree that Jonathan Gannon hitting that guy was a bad thing... especially if you rare a couple back."
  • Dale, [13:54]: "I had a coach grab my jersey one time… I understand, it went too far. He punched him twice."
  • Holmberg, [21:02]: "But I'm saying is, as a coach, when you do that, you lose the team. It's over. And that's the dumb of it."
  • Dale, [30:44]: "Trying to keep the team together. And maybe that's why you'll see them lose the next two."

• On NFL culture and changes:

  • Holmberg, [19:36]: "You pick a guy who you know you can cut. I thought that you had some manliness."
  • Dale, [19:57]: "If you want to go down that route... been focusing on the bump."

• On the Cardinals’ season outlook:

  • Holmberg, [28:39]: "They will win maybe two more games… This is not going to be helpful to a team that was already…"
  • Dale, [28:48]: "No, it's not going to be helpful. But this is not the reason that they're two and three right now."

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 06:15–07:53 – Cardinals’ expectations vs reality, and staff changes
• 10:32–24:00 – Deep dive: Gannon’s sideline altercation, player mentality, coaching culture then vs now
• 27:37–30:14 – Team response, leadership, and fallout from the incident
• 32:12–37:58 – Week 6 NFL picks: Commanders/Bears, Bengals/Packers, Cowboys/Panthers
• 38:13–39:11 – Suns, Mercury, and general Phoenix sports temperature check

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Tone & Style

• The conversation is irreverent, banter-filled, and combative in a familiar/friendly way – true to Holmberg’s Morning Sickness style.
• Hosts blend football analysis with sarcastic humor and digressions into personal stories, team fandom, and local sports gripes.

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Episode Summary

This episode centers on the Arizona Cardinals’ ongoing struggles, highlighted by head coach Jonathan Gannon’s controversial sideline outburst where he punched a player after a critical turnover. Former NFL lineman Dale Hellestrae and the crew debate what this says about coaching culture, leadership, and the mental state of a team. They explore whether the Cardinals are fundamentally "soft," if a coach can recover trust after a physical lapse, and if this moment marks a turning point for the franchise. The gang wraps up with NFL Week 6 picks, trades Flacco travel stories, and takes potshots at Arizona’s professional basketball and women’s basketball expectations.

For listeners who missed the episode:
Expect sharp, honest football talk, classic “old school vs new school” debates over coaching, plenty of local sports color, and the crew’s trademark blend of opinion, humor, and lively argument—a snapshot of Arizona sports conversation in 2025.

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Transcript

[A]

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[A]

You'Ve been deceived by an agent of Satan himself. He's evil sitting right here. Come on.

[B]

No, no, he's not.

[A]

He's not evil. He's just a bit rude.

[B]

98 a year of P.T.

[A]

Shut up, Dale.

[B]

Shut up.

[A]

Dale. Let me introduce you before you start mouthing off about everything it on a Thursday morning at 9:05 to bring you three time world champion from way back in the Clinton administration. From the Dallas Texans it is Dale Hellestray and he's brought to you by our friends at diamond coating. Diamondcoatingsaz.com I gotta show you my basketball court.

[B]

Does it look nice?

[A]

Oh, we gotta put. I want, I want to wait until they do an official like oh, I'm dying to put my metaglasses picture of me wander around on there. Two big steelers logos on the corners, got the pickleball thing in the center. Basketball, the lights I built myself. But what they put on the floor is so cool and it's awesome. They are. And they're so easy to deal with. Such a great thing. They did Brady's garage, did all the other stuff. If you've got this thing, diamond coatings AZ.com is where you go and they can do anything. I'm going to have them do my counters. I have backyard counters and the sun beats the crap out of everything. Yes, we can grind that right down. I thought I had get new counters. The geniuses over there, they're awesome. So if you want to do this thing. Diamondcoatingsaz.com if you've got something at your house that's dull on the ground. Concrete. Your driveway, your garage. You've got that. You need to get on this.

[B]

I can't wait till the garage gets done.

[A]

Well, you got to make a phone call.

[B]

I will. Tony. I've been waiting for my first win. Hey, I gotta say.

[A]

Oh, that's true too.

[B]

Yeah, it just seems like the atmosphere is lighter in this office. I tuned in the other day and without Brady, this show is not very good.

[A]

It's a man show. You're just kissing Brady's ass. I'm gonna allow that.

[B]

He's a secret sauce.

[A]

We love Brady here. Of course he's part of the operation. Yes, the Jew op show was fantastic. So Brady's show is also good.

[B]

I thought this. It should be the Holmberg and Brady morning sickness. Because he's that important.

[A]

Can't afford it. Can't afford it. Can't afford it.

[B]

I would go to Trip and I would say, I need more money.

[A]

Good luck with that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

You like that sounds good luck with that. Yeah. Let's get right to all the party that's going on here. Of course, you've got the Merc Mania. We all do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I saw you pull in with the big Mercury flag in the back of your car.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I couldn't tell if it was your car or everyone else's because we've all got it. Look around the city. No one isn't talking about WNBA finals basketball Friday night.

[B]

John, you're going to be there, right?

[A]

Front row. If I can afford it. It's so expensive to get tickets. Or if I can go to Fry's and get a pack of gun. They give you free tickets anyway, so they're going to. I said this morning, earlier in the week, I said I'd get a tattoo in the top of my head if they won the series. That was when they were down 02. Okay, down 03 this morning.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I made the proclamation. If they win the series, I'll get breast implants.

[B]

Now you gotta be careful. Did you do this with the Diamondbacks? You have to sell all your.

[C]

Really be careful.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was men's.

[B]

It happens in girls basketball.

[A]

No, it doesn't. There's never been a seven game series.

[B]

Well, I heard.

[A]

But anyway, now they're down to three. There's no possibility of this going against me. No, I think they'll win one of these games, but they're not winning four in a row.

[B]

You think they win Friday night? Yeah, because they have to. Well, if they don't win Friday it's over.

[A]

No, you just keep chucking it up.

[C]

There and hopefully I think it ends on Friday. Because you think it's a sweep. There's no spots where they can play. Televise the game after that.

[A]

That's a good point.

[B]

That's a good point.

[A]

But I saw that the Mercury are trying to be nice with this rain that's coming this weekend and all that Globe has been through. The Mercury surprised a woman from Globe with tickets to the finals. And I asked the question, hasn't this woman been through enough?

[B]

You're not going to bring me down to the quagmire with you, Johnny.

[A]

I know.

[B]

It's just.

[A]

It's just such a terrible, terrible thing to do.

[B]

I can't believe I thought by you coming back that they would. You would raise their spirits.

[C]

Well, I didn't realize.

[A]

Quiet down, Brady. I'm talking. It's. It's a. It's a kick into having O.J. simpson come console you after a murder. It's just. You just don't leave these poor people of Globe alone. Don't go over there and tell them that now they gotta drive all the way here and back on a night that's gonna be raining. What are they thinking?

[B]

And it's coming again, isn't it?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Get a rain check.

[A]

Maybe if you were nice, you'd get them a place here in Phoenix and they could get out of there while the rains come.

[B]

Bring your family. Yeah.

[A]

No, but they try to. That's terrible. Terrible what they're doing. Somebody should look into this. Some lawyers. Speaking of lawyers, let's talk Cardinals football, Dale, since evidently you know something about football, or you used to years ago. Yeah, the. The situation with the Cardinals is interesting, and I think we will both agree, and we're going to talk about it on the podcast we do. The John Holmberg Sports Podcast with permanent guest Dale, Hell Stray and the rest. We'll talk about how both of us believe this team had a legitimate shot at winning the division.

[B]

I did. Yes, I did.

[A]

I thought for sure they would be competing at the very least. And I gave them the nod on the fact that they got a little better. They spent money in the right spots, they drafted well. Kyler's going to be smart.

[B]

Third year of this program, like the coaching staff.

[A]

Exactly. And they cratered so bad Sunday that I firmly believe it's going to be tough for them to win two or three more games this year.

[B]

This could be one of those things happened to the Bears where they lost a break or whatever. And they lost 10 in a row. Yeah. This one. That could carry over the one name I want you to keep on the front of your tongue or on the tip of your tongue. That's what we call is a guy named Clayton Adams. Do you know who Clayton Adams is?

[A]

I don't.

[B]

Clayton Adams was the offensive line coach here for a couple years.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And the Dallas Cowboys hired him as their offensive coordinator. Have you seen what Dallas Cowboys offense.

[A]

Is doing fairly well? Yeah, doing fairly.

[B]

Averaging 35, whatever. And they hired Ohio State offensive line coach here in. In Arizona. Yeah, Ohio State. The one thing that they get five stars all over the place, five star recruits, five star groups. The one thing that anybody I talk to that's close to Iowa State, watch their Ohio State scouts. Ohio State is that their offensive line is talented but soft.

[A]

Is that right?

[B]

Talented but soft. And I'm seeing that with this Arizona Cardinals offensive line. I know we're going to go in a different direction, but nobody's talking about this Clayton Adams thing. No, they let him go. And you see what's happening in Dallas. I mean, all of a sudden Dak Prescott's an MVP candidate. He's good.

[A]

But their talent level in Dallas is better.

[B]

But they don't have CD Lamb even.

[A]

Yeah, but you went and got Pickens and you've still got, you know, they've. Turpin's good. They've got good receivers. They could. They're one of the few teams that their receiver room could afford one.

[B]

But him, it's a big one. Yes, but you.

[A]

But you went out and got another one A. Yeah. And Pickens is good. If he plays four quarters, he's Marvin.

[B]

Harrison Jr. And the other thing that happened in Dallas last week, and nobody's talking about it, is for their five starting off of offensive linemen were out for the five.

[A]

Yeah, that is a. Well, that's an interesting. I didn't know who that was.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I didn't know the Cardinals just let her and they just let him walk. Were they even trying to.

[B]

Well, he got a promotion to offense coordinator.

[A]

Couldn't do that here.

[B]

Well, he could have now.

[A]

He could have. So it's hindsight, your hindsight, policing the Cardinals.

[B]

When we lost him, I said, you know, I didn't think he's gonna be that good of an offense coordinator, but I thought he's a hell of an offensive line coach.

[A]

Okay. So you're seeing that, and that is a huge difference. As a Steeler fan, we have not had the same offensive line Production since Mike Munchak is our offensive line coach. Got a guy named Pat Myers. And. And when you know your offensive line coach's name, there's a problem.

[B]

Usually there is.

[A]

And that's when you're like, oh, so yeah, that's an thing on that. What I'm seeing with the Cardinals though is a complete utter disconnect to what was last year's exciting kind of competitive underdog team.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Something's wrong there. And, and it, it, man, did it show on some.

[B]

But, but do you say that they're not competitive because their last three losses have been on the last play of.

[A]

The game to the Titans?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You should have been up 28 to 6.

[B]

Absolutely. No doubt. I know we're going to get into the. The, the thing.

[A]

Yeah, the thing.

[B]

Yeah. But that's three straight games they lost on the last play of the game. But they haven't played anybody well played San Francisco.

[A]

That's the only one they did play. But again that was that moment they got. They were getting trounced and came back. Seahawks were the same and it's like they, they still have that competitive thing, but they're just not four quarters of trying.

[B]

No.

[A]

And that's something wrong with them. It's different. You can't watch them and feel like oh, these guys are scrappy and you know what, it's not working out. But every time they're out there they're giving their all. I'm not seeing.

[B]

But here's the thing also it's year three of the Gannon Austin for regime and year one, hey, you gave him a lot of grace. And hey, they're playing last year competitive in most every game even though they.

[A]

Lost improved from the year before. Yep.

[B]

And now sudden year three and year three is usually if a team's going to make a jump under a certain staff is when you see it. And there has not been a coach who's got to the fourth year without making the playoffs in the first.

[A]

At least one.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Ryan Day balls, who you're talking about. That's interesting. And so then we get into what we saw Sunday, which once the national press got hold of this, it changed Sunday. Coach Gannon, we talked about it and Brett was adamant as an Italian that this should be a coach's thing more often. But that move. God damn right. So the dude for the Cardinals, the running back who they don't have any other options, right. 78 yard run, drops the ball on the one yard line as he's going in half yard line it was close, but it was still stupid.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So he drops. They don't get the. The touchdown. The Titans get the ball back, drive down, get a touchdown.

[B]

Everything changed.

[A]

Somehow get the ball again, and then the dude makes the interception and has that punched out. It lands in the end zone. That's 14 points. And the wheels fell off. You said something funny when we were golfing once, said, first hole, looking good. Second good. Third hole, I see the lug nuts are a little loose. By the fourth hole, your tires are wobbling. Fifth hole, they're gone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm like, you're right, because that's how I was playing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But that kind of happened. You watched a team deflate on tv, and a coach after that guy dropped that ball, and evidently, and Toledo just told us this, that he was most frustrated that they had shown the tape of that guy in Indianapolis a week earlier saying, we hold the ball when we cross, and we hang on to it in the end zone.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

We see the referee's arms in the air, then we can spike it or throw it or do it.

[B]

Let's run five yards in the end zone, then do whatever you want.

[A]

Why did he do it? What's in his head? Some of me believes that if you see that tape all week, it's in your head to put the ball down. In tactical, back in training for gun defense.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When you take the gun away, you never give it back to the trainer. You drop it on the ground.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And it's because from history, as many times as you've gone through the drill, when you hand it back, in real life, some guy did it, he took the gun from it, and it had become muscle memory to hand it right back to the guy.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Because that's what you drill. So now it's drill it, drop it, drill it, drop it. And then you take a little pause and start over. Which is really smart, because if you do get into the habit, you know, in offensive line, everything's routine, going through routines. And if one of your routines is at the end of the play, you just kind of let the guy run by you. You'll make your block, you'll do your thing. The play's not over, and they're like, whoops, in practice, that's how we stop.

[B]

Yep. If you do it in practice. So, yep.

[A]

Showing a guy that tape over and over and over again saying, don't do this, don't do this, don't do this. Made him think of, don't do that. And then he drops it like, don't do this.

[B]

I like your. I. I like everything that you're talking about there. But I would think that that would again if you did that tactical black and the guy shot you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, guess what? You're. You're probably not going to hand it back to him the next time if you live.

[A]

That's an excellent point. That's a good point.

[B]

So. So here's the thing that you go, oh, that happens once every five years in the NFL. Twice in the week it happened the week before. And. And I can see the coaching staff loses their mind if they. In fact, like Toledo said, they showed them that play. Yeah. They drew Wednesday and Thursday. And again with you, Bert. The fact that I was brought up in a different era of football, coaches were allowed to put their hands on you.

[A]

Did you ever get punched by a coach?

[B]

No.

[A]

See, that's not. There's a difference.

[B]

I had a coach grab my jersey one time.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Well, the thing is, the dude not only chewed the leaf tobacco. Oh. And it's. It's hot day all over him, but he also smoked in between drills.

[A]

He died of terrible things.

[B]

He lived a long life. He did. Oh, yes.

[A]

That's not an endorsement.

[B]

Yeah. So when you get grabbed by him and he's in your face, you're like, I don't want this to happen to me again. But you're allowed to put your head. I understand. It went too far.

[A]

He punched him twice.

[B]

It was. It was a.

[A]

It wasn't like he was Mike Tyson. The second punch was a legitimate body hook, right? No, he didn't hit him in the pads. Yes, he did. The one that can show.

[C]

Has it been going over and over again or did they interact?

[A]

He hit him in the head and then he railed back and walked by him and threw one in his stomach.

[B]

Railed back.

[A]

He.

[B]

Dude, the guy.

[A]

Look, Dale, if you're not expecting it, a light punch hurts.

[B]

Morning sickness. Medicate. K U P D Limu Emu.

[A]

And Doug, here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Uh, limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[B]

Cut the camera.

[A]

They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty. Liberty Savings variant by Liberty Mutual Insurance Co. Affiliates excludes Massachusetts.

[B]

Holmberg's morning sickness. John, that's you. You're not a player.

[A]

When you're not supposed to hit someone, you shouldn't hit him. I Don't disagree that Jonathan Gannon hitting that guy was a bad thing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I'm saying you're going to get in big trouble for it, especially if you rare a couple back. I don't care if you hit him hard or not.

[B]

Rear back.

[A]

This is all, oh, you almost made me do it. Bull. Hindsight of everybody saying, oh, this is what I'd done. If a guy rears back and punches you, even if it doesn't hurt, it's a punch.

[B]

It's a 40 year old. I don't coach and an athlete.

[A]

I spit on you.

[B]

Yeah, you're getting your ass kicked.

[A]

Doesn't hurt. We're dealing with your pride as a man.

[B]

I'm a. Yes, but you're dealing with his pride because he dropped the ball and he lost to the football. You knew he loses football. He's a football player.

[A]

21.

[B]

You do at that moment. You knew it. No, you didn't do it.

[A]

That's bad coaching.

[B]

Oh, that's bad coaching then.

[A]

Oh God, that was so close. And he goes over and he shouts him down. There's one, the one to the face.

[B]

And then one to the stomach right there.

[A]

He says, yeah, no, he hit him with a shot when he did it. James Harrison.

[B]

James Harrison, none of it.

[A]

So. So James Harrison said, you put your hands on me, it's the last time. And Joe Hayden said, no coach would do that to you. Basically saying they'd pick and choose who they'd hit based on that. Now, I don't care if he's 40, if he's 70, whatever. You start dabbling with a man's pride that way.

[B]

I tell you what, if. Who's that linebacker again? What's his name?

[A]

James Harrison.

[B]

If he dropped the ball, the one yard line on that interception return in the super bowl, in the super bowl, you don't think that tower would be in his face.

[A]

Howard would have spit on him unintentionally, of course. That's your job as a coach. You immediately, no matter if you're good punching or bad punching, take a swing at a guy. It changes everything.

[B]

You've got your fist cocked back like you're throwing a punch.

[A]

He does this as he wants right here.

[B]

He grabbed him.

[A]

Okay, well, the both of you, the both of you, okay, all three of your dumb then because the NFL saw it as a punch and find him 100 grand.

[B]

The Cardinals did.

[A]

The Cardinals did. You're right. The Cardinals and the NFL will act on that now that the Cardinals.

[B]

No, they won't. They'll say that's enough. You think? Oh, yeah. Oh, it's done. It's over with. I promise you it's over. Once the old jets now. Jerry's a whole new thing.

[A]

Jerry's a brand new.

[B]

Hey, if you're going to get the thumbs up and somehow the bird comes out.

[A]

Yeah. Oops, Sorry, jets fan. But he is old. I can understand. He doesn't know which finger does what anymore. Ask his wife. Plus, he's a drunk and he's up there. Bombed. It's the end of the game. He hammered the Jets. Screw you, New York. And New York clutching their pearls over a middle finger is equal to saying he punched him. He didn't punch him. You still don't do it?

[B]

Yeah. Why are you flipping me off?

[A]

Because I don't care for you right now. No, but you just don't do that as a. In those positions.

[B]

Ideally, you don't do that.

[A]

Not even ideally.

[B]

No.

[A]

Again, you just don't.

[B]

It just adds on to it now when. Because I had not heard that until Toledo came in and said they showed that video on Wednesday and Thursday.

[A]

But, Dan, as many times as you've been in a game, not one coach has ever punched a player. So they can control it. And that's what I'm saying. I agree. It wasn't a harsh violation of physical. Oh, it was the worst thing. But you don't do it. It's not worth it. And that's a loss of control by a coach. If a player. You always say that. A guy loses his mind on the field and punches me in the helmet. What an idiot.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So you have the capability of going, I can't do this. Correct.

[C]

Most of the time you see the coach and he's pulling on the face mask.

[A]

That's in the 70s. Woody Hayes, you were allowed to do that. That was the. Most of the time. The footage is grainy. Yeah, but that was 1978 and Woody was still under heat then.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Frank Kush lost his job in 1979 for this.

[B]

And he hit a punter. I know why.

[A]

Again, he knew what guy to hit. He knew which guy wasn't going to fight back. Pick your victim, right. You ain't hitting Calas Campbell.

[B]

No, but Kus Campbell's not doing something stupid like that.

[A]

If he did, you're still not hitting him.

[B]

But he's not doing it.

[A]

Called self preservation. Oh, Johnny, you pick a guy who you know you can cut.

[B]

I thought that you had some. Some manliness.

[A]

I do flag football at this point. Turning guy Punches somebody on the field. What should happen to him?

[B]

Punches somebody on player, on player. Crowd. Yeah, well, first of all, he's going to hurt himself.

[A]

Okay. But he doesn't.

[B]

Oh, he does.

[A]

Punches a guy right in the throat.

[B]

It's a 15 yard field. Punches a dude.

[A]

15 yard penalty and he gets kicked out of the game. Yeah. Every time you punch, you lose. You lose and you get.

[B]

But if you wait till you get to the sideline. Yeah.

[A]

Okay, Then punch another guy. I'm just saying, I know it wasn't like, oh, my God, he's got to go to the hospital punch, but it's definitely dumb. And when your coach is being dumb, your players reflect that.

[B]

If you want to go down that route. That's the route I've been going down. Been focusing on the bump.

[A]

I'm focusing on how stupid it was.

[B]

Marcado's physically hurt. Then they need to find a new running back.

[A]

That wasn't my point.

[B]

If he's psychologically hurt, he's got to be more mentally ready to play your coach. It was shown by him dropping the ball in the half yard.

[A]

Your coach is a bipolar girlfriend who stabbed you with a fork at dinner. And it didn't hurt, but you know she can't do that. You got to get out of there.

[B]

Two and a half years into the. Into this regime.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's the first time you've seen any reaction.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you look at it, and now you know why. And now you know why.

[A]

But you're being dumb. I'm not saying I don't know why. I'm not saying I don't agree that he could lose his cool. But I'm saying is, as a coach, when you do that, you lose the team. It's over. And that's the dumb of it.

[B]

What I don't agree with is him waking up in the morning going, I didn't feel good about talking about the coach and saying, I apologize to him.

[A]

How come he's not saying what you're saying?

[B]

What are you apologizing for?

[A]

Yeah, how come? If it's nothing to it, why. Why didn't you come and go, I should have punched.

[B]

He's mentally soft enough. They're going to say, oh, well, we're not going to play hard for you if you touch one of our guys. Well, they all say that.

[A]

Don't put your hands on me. Don't disrespect me.

[B]

He did put his hands on him. He did.

[A]

That's putting your hands on somebody. You know, it's technically Battery and assault.

[C]

And called him the next morning saying I overreacted a little bit.

[A]

So it's an overact. That's all I'm saying.

[B]

He overdid it.

[C]

He over disagree with that. But as far as saying assault.

[A]

I didn't say assault. It is assault. Technically.

[B]

Nobody's saying that's what I'm saying.

[A]

I'm not saying it's hurting or physically threatening. I'm saying that you can't do it. You're going to lose your job.

[B]

I don't think it's worth a hundred grand.

[A]

It's not.

[C]

But do you think he should lose it? I mean, you think.

[A]

I think he's going to lose his team.

[C]

That moment right there. He's lost the team.

[B]

Well, if he.

[A]

If he loses the team, he loses some of it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

As an owner and the team wasn't ready to play football in. They weren't.

[A]

That's why they lost the game.

[B]

They lost the game because that was such a dagger to the.

[A]

They lost the team that very moment. You have infighting and going on outside.

[B]

Four people who saw Dale, you have.

[A]

Sat in this room and said, he's mopey. He's mopey on the sidelines. You're going to lose people all the. He's not hurting anybody. No, not Jonathan Gannon. I'm talking about a player that mopes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or he doesn't participate on the sideline.

[B]

I don't want him on my team. Exactly.

[A]

And you certainly don't want a hothead who's going to lose it every once in a while and start swinging it. Gu guys and go. It's going to make the locker. It's going to ruin the locker room.

[C]

I think Gannon's going to be that way every time.

[A]

I think the second he apologize, he's in trouble. The team's in trouble as it is. You just said. You just said that. And that's because of the coach.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Yes, it is. The team is in trouble because the coach. This was a scrappy team that tried for him. And I don't think all of them are going to do that anymore. I may be wrong.

[B]

I think you're wrong, but I don't.

[A]

Think they go out there unified.

[B]

I think they're going to go to Indianapolis and get their ass whooped and they're going to come back here and Green Bay is going to whip their ass and then they might quit.

[A]

That's right. And they might stand up to a dud who's like, you want to go You, Dale. No coach has ever punched a guy in the NFL. It hasn't happened.

[C]

So he.

[A]

He. He went too far. It's a. It was a bad move. What's. What's a bad move?

[C]

Disappointing is the fact that you've had the worst game you. You'd had, your team did. And good teams could have the worst game they've ever had. That all season. They come back the next week. It's a new. It's a whole new deal. You forgot what happened last week.

[A]

That doesn't happen when. Mental now.

[C]

The team loses.

[B]

It's three in a row on the last play.

[A]

And now you've got the tough stretch of your schedule. You've got your coach Apollo. Everybody always says distractions. You got your coach apologizing.

[B]

Happen on Monday. It's still lingering. A locker room today. That's on them.

[A]

It lives.

[B]

It's on the play.

[A]

It's in his mind. It's in Gannon's head.

[B]

No, no. Gannon's past.

[A]

Guaranteed.

[B]

He wrote check yesterday, John, just like you. No, I wouldn't. Trust me on that one.

[A]

No, I wouldn't.

[B]

Move on. No, I wouldn't.

[A]

And also when you write that check, it lives with you. It sits in you. You sign that check, and especially if he feels the way your dumbass feels, which is like, I didn't do anything wrong, right? And I'm being punished for nothing that lives with him.

[B]

It'll make it go away. But tell me this. Here. Here's. Let's move on. Because you're smart and I'm smart, and.

[A]

That is not true. That proves I am smart.

[B]

In August.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You looked at this Indianapolis game. Is there any way on earth you. You didn't pick the Cardinals to have a chance to win this?

[A]

I had no idea who Indianapolis quarterback.

[B]

Was going to be.

[A]

Didn't know. I. That would have been like a. Yeah, Cardinals probably pop that one. That's a win. I'll put that a W on their schedule.

[B]

Danny Dimes.

[A]

Dude, Indiana Jones. Best nickname ever. This kid is killing it. And Indianapolis is a scary team. And right now the only one in the AFC that you're like, they've been consistent from jump.

[B]

Well, why does every quarterback that leaves New York have success? Sam Donald last year after seeing ghosts. Yeah, Daddy Dimes can't camp. Throw out a wet paper sack. Another four and one.

[A]

Well, think of the Giants again. We talked about this. But Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley were in their backfield. They were in the playoffs. And then something happened. Oh, it was Brian Dable, their head coach lost the team and they couldn't find a way to win again. And they just said it's their fault. We'll keep Dable. And Saquon goes, becomes the MVP and one of the best runners ever. And Daniel Jones is showing like you made a mistake.

[B]

But now you're, now you're looking at Saquon, Bart, and you're going, hold on. Was he a flash in the pan?

[A]

Well, he's having a tough start to the year, but so are the Eagles. Like that whole team is kind of like. Well, they lost a lot of guys though. They lost a few attrition through the modern day of NFL. That's why what the Chiefs are doing is pretty amazing because they're losing, replacing and staying pretty tight. It's hard to do that. So the Eagles lost like six guys, four on defense and it's starting to show a little here and that's fine. I'm fine with it. But we'll see if they can. They did this. They started the year this last year. Year same way. Kind of a little shaky to start the year last year and then just took off.

[B]

I can't remember last year.

[A]

Last year. I know. I say, well, I'm smarter and I have to explain things to you. That's how it works. So, yeah, we'll get into our picks this week. I completely think that the Cardinals may win three more games and that's just because.

[B]

I think they lose in Indy. Then Green Bay comes here. That's going to be a home game for Green Bay.

[A]

Clubbering them.

[B]

And Green Bay will beat them. They go to the pie. So you'll have two wheels, weeks to sit there and stew on what could have been. Because the first part of the schedule was the easy part.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they haven't done so good in the easy part.

[A]

Yeah. What would you do if a coach hit you, a Dallas Cowboys coach came up and hit you. You're not going to sit and go, it's hard, it hurts. Nothing like that. I'm not insinuating that it was physically damaging, but in front of other players and everything else, he takes a swing.

[B]

You know what I'm going to tell you, I probably had more of an. An issue with. If in fact it is like you say, let's give you the benefit of that. It is like you say. Yeah, you had Hernandez, the other guys and you had the left tackle standing right there.

[A]

True.

[B]

Why did they didn't do anything either. Why didn't they do anything?

[A]

Because they were afraid that that coach was going to lose his mind and start swinging and knock them all out. Because they're cowards and soft. They're all soft. Here's your schedule. I don't know. I don't. I can't answer that. I don't know why those guys didn't do anything. And that says a lot too about the camaraderie of the team and the disconnect from going on there either.

[B]

They didn't feel it was warranted of like the, you know, a felony assault like you say, instead of a misdemeanor bump. You know, either you want Gannon in prison.

[A]

I didn't. It is a silly rule, but it's there. They got the Colts, the Packers. The bye week the Cowboys come to or Dallas, Seattle again. They're not in the good. San Francisco, Jacksonville's no walk.

[B]

No.

[A]

Tampa is now some sort of super bowl contender with an MVP quarterback. The Rams, they will win maybe two more games. The Texans, Falcons are a maybe.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And the Bengals are a win good chance there. And then the Rams again, they're in trouble.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

This is this. And that's what I'm saying. This is not going to be helpful to a team that was already.

[B]

No, it's not going to be helpful. But this is not the reason that they're two and three right now.

[A]

But it's going to be the reason they're 4 and 13. It's going to be one of the many reasons. Look, when they, when they fire again at the end of the year, they're going to say, say, well, you know, they had a rough start. This happened. Then Gannon hit that guy and then everything. It'll be a catalyst for why they ruined so.

[B]

So does Gannon end up in prison at the end of the season?

[C]

No.

[A]

See, you're too stupid to have a nuanced conversation with a grown up. You are done.

[B]

I told you we needed to go.

[A]

Long enough so that Tom, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

See, we gotta take a break. Dale Hellstray, former champion coattailer is what they called him out there. What was his nickname with the Cowboys? A big swinger. It's 9:32. We'll talk to Dale and get our picks. Next it's 98 Morning Sickness.

[B]

98 K U P D Holmberg's Morning Sickness. Hilarious. Still arguing?

[A]

No, you're still arguing because you're still stupid. All I'm saying is you can't do it. That's it. You just can't. In this day and age. It's not worth it. Can't do it. That's why Jonathan Gannon apologized. He knew.

[B]

He knew he was trying to keep his team together again. As I told you during the break.

[A]

Like, oh, we're gonna fight for days.

[B]

Everything, everything, I think, can be told by the. By the reaction of the two linemen standing right there. Hernandez. Hernandez will fight you for looking at him wrong.

[A]

I'd like to hear from them.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, I would. That's what I would like. And maybe it is. Like you said, they were kind of in shock that it happened.

[A]

Like, you can't speculate with their brains, right? Like, did he just hit. Is he hitting us?

[B]

But. But the Hernandez that. That you see play would be. Would be grabbing. Gannon, say, you. You can't do that.

[A]

This would be a great conversation if you were better at your side. It's. This guy says if he loses the team over that, then they're soft woke little pusscakes. That's what Dale's saying they are.

[B]

I didn't go that far.

[A]

Yes, you did.

[B]

I just said soft.

[A]

Yeah, it says he didn't hurt him. If it hurt running backs feelings, he should suck it up. Stop doing something stupid. All right, then why do you apologize?

[B]

Trying to keep the team together. And maybe that's why you'll see them lose the next two.

[A]

This one says, John, punch his ass, Dale. It's football, puss.

[B]

It wasn't football.

[A]

It was sidelines.

[B]

That's called coaching.

[A]

I'm fine. I'm fine with people's opinions on it. I'm fine with the punching. I'm just saying you can't do it. Go ahead and punch them all day. Just see what happens.

[B]

Finally, your smart listeners have tuned in on this Thursday.

[A]

John, let's see how smart you are. We lost our bet last week because Brett.

[B]

Oh, yeah, it was me.

[A]

Brett screwed it up last week. It was. It was Cardinals. It wasn't me. That's ridiculous. They should have. That's why I'm. I'm all for Gan and beating the hell out of him. That prick should pay the money. As a matter of fact, a hundred.

[B]

Thousand dollars and 33.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

I would be.

[A]

I would be quick to change my position on this completely. If that running back who threw the ball down said, I'm gonna pay Coach Cannon's fines. He didn't do that. Say he's gonna pay my fines on this. He did nothing wrong. Yeah, and pay Brett's $33. Yeah.

[B]

DeMarcado, you can reach Bird at KUPD.

[A]

Whatever he gets you 33 bucks. Check.

[B]

Yeah, it works.

[A]

All right, let's get right to it. Fanduel picks. Dale's here. He's supposedly an expert in football. We're not real sure when that happened. Diamond coatings a dot com. Letting Dale be part of this. Now I'm going to make sure that they put a big Steelers logo and a boxing ring in your garage. You're so into throwing punches and thinking that's just fine. I'm telling you, hit them all day, it ain't going to go well for you. You're going to be apologizing and writing checks. That's my only point.

[B]

Are you going to take some pictures of your basketball court or you're going to invite people over? So we pill a horse. Free throws.

[A]

Yeah. Some people come by. I'll have some people over.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Friends.

[B]

Yeah, I've seen your friends.

[A]

Well, I guess we shouldn't have you over there. Let's get right to it.

[B]

I don't fit in, Bert.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

I'm too high class.

[A]

Yes, that's right. Yeah. Square peg. And you try to insert it into a nice place. Anyway, the football picks are here. Let's go right to it.

[B]

Bert.

[A]

You've got your Bears this week. They're back off their by. Who do they play? Commander Skins. Oh, they got the Washington team. All right. This was the. This was the team that ended their year last year in the middle of the year. That's where I'm having the dilemma. Is it like. Is it like we're going to show them this time or is it going to be another Bears move? Hey, you getting. Since they're playing in Washington, they got to go with commanders. Commanders. All right. I have to on this one. Brett goes commanders. Brady, your Cincinnati bungles. After getting Joe Flacco off, I think.

[B]

We have to have him, Flo. I think we have to have him.

[A]

Oh, he's got to do the spread now, though. Oh, no, he's. Yeah, he can pick. Yeah, pick spreads and stuff to keep it alive. No way. Well, you can go either way.

[C]

No, you go against it.

[A]

You don't have to take it. You get how this works. It's only been four years to do it.

[C]

14 and a half.

[A]

They're getting 14 and a half points.

[B]

Yeah, Joe Flacco will have one game in it eventually. No, you're right. He might. And it might be this week because guess what? He. They flew him. Do you see that? They. They flew him. Coach. Class. From Cleveland to Cincinnati, he was getting. There's A picture of him getting off the plane with everybody else. He's, you know, midway.

[A]

The Bengals paid for that.

[B]

That's what. Yeah, whoever trades for you pays for your flight. He's in the middle. Yeah, maybe, maybe low Bs.

[A]

There he is walking on with his new. Oh, ugly ass Bengals.

[B]

But see, remember now it's Thursday.

[C]

He had to buy his own pads.

[B]

Yeah, he brought him from Cincinnati. So he. So it's Thursday. So they don't have a chance to ruin him yet.

[C]

That.

[A]

But they did on the flight over, evidently.

[B]

Yeah. Can you imagine that, John?

[A]

Well, that's what they did to Boomer Sian when he, they invited people back to the Ring of Honor. They said, find your own plane ticket. You get, you get one seat to the game.

[B]

But you. If you want to get me started real quick and I'll tell the story. I mean, we had a reunion for the Dallas Cowboys. Jerry said, hey, if you get here, we'll, we'll trot you out at halftime. Put yourself up at a hotel, fly yourself there. If you don't live in Dallas.

[A]

He didn't really want you.

[B]

No. Well, you didn't want anybody.

[A]

There he is. There's Flacco in coat.

[B]

Yes. He kind of stands out, doesn't he?

[A]

They have a plane going.

[C]

I know that guy in the front.

[B]

Of you would think you're, you're flying in your starting quarterback.

[A]

Is he going to start for sure.

[B]

They think they announced him as a start.

[A]

Oh my God, I didn't see that.

[B]

But, but John, here, here's the only thing that, that really.

[A]

You can punch that guy.

[B]

Yeah. About the Cowboys is the fact that. But my, my brother in law used to work for the Diamondbacks. Yeah. And he put together the 10 year reunion for the Diamondbacks World Series. And they flew first class. Everybody, everybody and a spouse put them up at a five star hotel. There were golf, there was dinners, there was parties. Wow. And then they trotted them out. You know, the Sunday afternoon game. We all had a flyer still there. And we won three Super Bowls.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's kind of crazy. So when I saw that this morning, I went, boy, is that not Cincinnati.

[A]

And we don't even want to get into the idea that Cleveland traded their only veteran quarterback to a division rival who needs help at quarterback, which is the last thing you should do because the Browns are going to brown and the Bungles are going to bungle. And it makes me happier every year that these two franchises remain absent.

[B]

You really only have one, one team of competition. You don't even have them this year. If the quarterback.

[A]

When they get healthy, we play them late. So it's a chance we'll get beat by the Ravens late. But right now, now, nice little building blocks to get around these idiots. And we get to see them twice. Brady, Bengals.

[C]

I'm going to take the. I'm going to take the points. I'm going to go to the Bengals.

[A]

Plus 14 with Brady.

[B]

My God, I would do that too.

[A]

Yeah, I think.

[B]

I think Flacco's got one. One game in them.

[A]

I never like 10 or more in a program ever. You never know what can happen.

[B]

Two touchdowns and a hook. Yeah.

[A]

And they're playing the Packers. Yeah. Tough one. All right. Who do you have, Dale? Cowboys.

[B]

The Cowboys visit the vaunted Carolina Panthers. Who want to roll.

[A]

Not bad.

[B]

And they're. And they're three point favorites the Cowboys. Yeah, three point favorites the Cowboys. But I believe in Clayton Adams. They're going to put up another 35, 40 points.

[A]

You got the Cowboys straight up.

[B]

Give me the Cowboys.

[A]

All right, man. Brady's plus 14 thing is huge. Yeah. And then my Steelers play the Browns. I'm going to take Steelers. The Browns saw a rookie quarterback for four quarters and said, hey, that guy didn't the bed. Let's just leave it with rookies from here on out, huh? I think it was five or six, something like that.

[B]

Doesn't matter.

[A]

No, I'm just going straight. Just win it right out. That's fine. I'm not going to give the Browns anything. Five and a half Steelers win that. No points. Brett hat. So that should be probably around a plus 600. My phone won't download the fanduel right now, but yeah. So you get that going. We get about a 600. If one of us screws up, Brett will Give us all $33 through Apple Pay later today. I'm sure. Starting with Dale. Look at that. That face he's going to punch. I'm going to punch somebody even better. Makes me excited all the way around. All right, the picks are in. Follow us where we were close. We've only missed one game in the last two weeks. Well, two of Dale's tie. But we. We haven't failed too bad. We're having a pretty good run to start this thing. Let's keep it alive this week. Hopefully Brady's Bengals can hold within 14. And that's still a fingers crossed moment there. I'm not real sure I'm.

[C]

It was a half point. I was squirming this past weekend.

[B]

It's Cleveland and Cincinnati plays who?

[A]

Green Bay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's a mess.

[B]

Two and a half. Two touchdowns in the book.

[A]

Good job, Dale. We're going to do the entertainment drill. Dale got his picks in.

[B]

Everything's good.

[A]

You watching baseball at all? It's been pretty amazing. Pretty good games. Couple of bad ones, couple clunkers thrown in there, but there's been some real good baseball.

[B]

I was river to the Mercury last.

[A]

Yeah, everybody was. The whole city was on fire.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You going to watch the Suns at 5am tomorrow in China?

[B]

Although.

[A]

Who's gonna watch?

[B]

Although I am slowly, slowly becoming a little bit more enthusiastic.

[A]

Not me. I've been enthusiastic three years in a row and let down. I'm gonna go into this thing as a full skeptic and cynic and hate this team and let them surprise me.

[B]

Yeah. Well, there you go. No expectations.

[A]

27 wins. That's my. That's my line right now.

[B]

I just took the over on 34.

[A]

You did? Dumb 27. If they go over 34, I'll be happy to watch it, but that's not gonna happen. They're just. We can't have nice things, Dale. You taught me that. All right, we'll take a break. We'll do the entertainment drill. That's coming up next with Dummy and the crew. It's 98.

[C]

It's not weird. It's pretty cool, actually. No membership fees.

[A]

I have heard enough of this.