The Sports Thing Podcast w/Holmberg, Hellestrae And Nash - Episode 12 - 10-23-25

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Sports Thing Podcast w/Holmberg, Hellestrae, and Nash

Episode 12 | October 23, 2025 | “The NBA Gambling Scandal Explodes”
Podcast: Holmberg’s Morning Sickness - Arizona | 98 KUPD
Hosts: John Holmberg, Dale Hellestrae, Dave Nash

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Overview

This week’s episode dives deep into the massive NBA gambling scandal that broke just a day before recording, centering on Chauncey Billups, illegal poker games, and the wider threat of corruption in sports. The trio brings skepticism, biting humor, nostalgia, and a little conspiracy theory energy—mixing personal stories, fan frustrations, and love for the games.

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Key Discussions & Insights

1. Show Banter & Introductions (02:03–07:17)

• The hosts rib each other about their nicknames (“the Heartbeat,” “the Vascular System,” “the appendix”).
• Dale bristles at being called “a madman with a bullhorn,” leading into a discussion about public personas and media credibility.
• John complains that humility turns into passive-aggressive headaches:

  “Just say, ‘Yep, I sure am,’ and we’re moving on.” – John Holmberg (05:15)

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2. The NBA Gambling Scandal Unpacked (07:17–24:57)

Key Players and Context

• The discussion centers on Operation Nothing but Net, the FBI’s investigation connecting Chauncey Billups, high-tech illegal card games, and mob-tied gambling, with suspicions spreading far beyond just Billups.
• Chauncey Billups’ inclusion surprised everyone, especially given his career earnings over $100M. The team notes:

  “Why on earth would you think you need more money?” – Dave Nash (10:13)

Mob Tactics and Grooming

• John and Dave speculate that this isn’t a case of “first guy said yes,” but rather a longer-term grooming or blackmail, paralleling old mob influence in boxing.

• Nash wonders if “pulling the sweater thread” risks unraveling the entire NBA:

  “If you start tugging on this thing and the sweater starts to disappear, we lose a league.” – John Holmberg (13:03)

Skepticism & Damage to the Game

• The group muses that previously, scandals like Tim Donaghy’s referee fixing were minimized, but this time the financial scope and FBI involvement are huge.
• Several references to skepticism about the official numbers:

  “If the initial report is 7 million, it’s probably 100.” – Dale (18:50)

• Discussion about sports betting apps’ role in exposing or fueling the issue, and potential legal action from bettors.
• Names like Gilbert Arenas and Bradley Beal are mentioned as rumored to be involved.

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3. Can the NBA Survive This? (24:57–34:55)

• Is sports just “the new pro wrestling”—all orchestrated, all for the money?
• Dale and Dave both talk openly about how gambling affects enjoyment and trust.
• John admits:

  “You can lie to me, but don’t fool me… Sports is all emotion.” (34:12)

• The Sacramento–Lakers and Kings–Lakers playoff series are recalled as notorious examples that pushed fans away.
• Nash points out, “I don’t want my three major sports to go the way of boxing.”

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4. The Role of Gambling in Fan Engagement (38:19–41:29)

• Dale admits, for him, gambling is almost required to care about most games:

  “Honestly, if I didn’t gamble, I wouldn’t watch. I could care really…” (38:26)

• The hosts acknowledge fantasy football’s role in creating fan investment, especially for demographics (like women and kids) not previously interested.
• John argues that trust in the reality of games is essential—without it, sports go the way of boxing and horse racing: huge, irrevocable decline.

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5. Escapism, Conspiracies, and the “Real Matrix” (26:26, 42:20–47:02)

• Dale explains his new podcast, “The Real Matrix,” is about accepting the red pill—facing unsettling truths—while most people would rather live content in ignorance (“the blue pill”).
• John sympathizes, saying sports has always been his “blue pill,” his safe escapism, but doesn’t want to lose that to corruption.

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6. Shohei Ohtani and the Joys of Unbelievable Sports (47:44–60:55)

• In sharp contrast to the scandal talk, the trio rhapsodizes about Shohei Ohtani’s historic two-way performance.
• John marvels:

  “No one is doing what Shohei's doing even in the minors. No one is pitching and hitting. No one can do what he's doing. Which makes him insanely unique because he can't change the game.” (49:41)

• The discussion segues into athlete specialization, hot prospects who fizzled, and why two-way stars are so rare.
• Shohei and Babe Ruth are called generational unicorns; even Gretzky is compared, but John insists Shohei’s uniqueness is greater.

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7. Wrap-Up, Listener Mail & Listener Relationships (47:17, 61:12–65:02)

• Amusing hate mail is read about Dave Nash, claiming he’s “the a-hole in the show” (and grateful for the attention).
• The hosts reiterate: sports is a place people can argue and disagree without real-world stakes—“we can all exhale.”

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8. Dale’s “Five Minutes with a Madman with a Bullhorn” (65:30–72:17)

• Dale pivots to his signature wild closing—lamenting that the FBI should focus more on “real issues” (like the Epstein files and election fraud) than on NBA player gambling.
• John and Dave try (and fail) to make him summarize his points succinctly:

  “Succinctly say why you think elections are rigged in one sentence. Try it. Take a breath.” – John (70:21)

• Dale, (mock)-apoplectic and breathless, admits: “I'm such a bad speaker. I can't even believe there's a microphone anywhere near me at any time of my life. It’s brutal.” (72:03)
• The segment ends with laughter, and a call to get Dale “iced down” before he has a stroke.

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• “If I go away, this dies… call me the Heartbeat.” – John Holmberg (02:17)
• “You can’t scream ‘I’m not a madman’ and then say, ‘The globalists are…’” – John Holmberg (06:52)
• “Why on earth would you think you need more money?” – Dave Nash (10:13)
• “If you start tugging on this thing and the sweater starts to disappear, we lose a league.” – John Holmberg (13:03)
• “You can lie to me, but don’t fool me… Sports is all emotion.” – John Holmberg (34:12)
• “Honestly, if I didn’t gamble, I wouldn’t watch. I could care really…” – Dale (38:26)
• “No one is doing what Shohei's doing even in the minors. No one is pitching and hitting. No one can do what he's doing.” – John Holmberg (49:41)
• “Succinctly say why you think elections are rigged in one sentence. Try it.” —John Holmberg (70:21)
• “I’m such a bad speaker. I can’t even believe there’s a microphone anywhere near me at any time of my life. It’s brutal.” – Dale (72:03)

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Timestamps for Key Topics

| Topic | Start | End | |---------------------------------------|----------|----------| | Show intro & banter | 02:03 | 07:17 | | NBA gambling scandal overview | 07:17 | 24:57 | | Sports integrity & fan trust | 24:57 | 34:55 | | The role of gambling in watching | 38:19 | 41:29 | | Escapism & conspiracy banter | 42:20 | 47:02 | | Shohei Ohtani & unique greatness | 47:44 | 60:55 | | Listener feedback / sports escapism | 61:12 | 65:02 | | Dale’s “Madman Bullhorn” closing | 65:30 | 72:17 |

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Tone

Lively, sarcastic, world-weary but passionate—equal parts jaded skepticism and genuine sports fandom, with plenty of ribbing and wild asides.

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Summary

This episode is an energetic, wide-ranging analysis of sports corruption, the fragility of fandom, and the magic (and pain) of loving games. The NBA scandal serves as a framing device for deeper themes: trust in sports, the joys and perils of gambling, and why fans keep coming back—even if everything might be rigged. The hosts find refuge and frustration in it all, but never lose their sense of humor.

Transcript

[Dale]

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[John Holmberg]

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[Dale]

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[John Holmberg]

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[Dale]

The wildly successful Morning Sickness to tell.

[John Holmberg]

You about Quality car ste a motorcycle.

[Dale]

UTV or a boat. Any fun or even not so fun mode of transportation. Quality Car stereo can make that sound system fantastic.

[John Holmberg]

You took me down there, Brett, and I was blown away at what's available. And most folks think their cars can't have new sound systems because of those super fancy displays. Actually, it's easier than ever to upgrade your system.

[Dale]

But don't just go anywhere. Go to Quality Car Stereo on Sauceman and Baseline in Mesa or check out.

[John Holmberg]

The website quality car stereo a.com oh, nice start. Great job.

[Dave Nash]

All right, here we Go.

[John Holmberg]

All right. It's ready to go. Episode. Whatever this is. It is time now once again for the incredibly popular sports Thing podcast with your host, John Holmberg.

[Dave Nash]

Permanent home.

[John Holmberg]

That's pretty good. Well, I mean, there's no doubt. Look, I'll tell you, look, Nash, it's not even about being permanent. It's just if I go away, this dies, so it doesn't even matter. It's the heartbeat with the show's heartbeat. John Holmberg. We'll call me that.

[Dave Nash]

Wow.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Each week it gets worse.

[John Holmberg]

The show's heart. I like that. Call me the Heartbeat.

[Dave Nash]

I like that.

[John Holmberg]

On the sports podcast, my nickname is the Heartbeat.

[Dave Nash]

How about that? Or the straw.

[John Holmberg]

Or that stirs the drink. I see what you're saying. There's a three time world champion, Dale Hellestray. You are the vascular system.

[Dale]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

That's pretty good, right? It's an integral part of this program.

[Dave Nash]

I like that. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And I think Dave's the appendix.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

You know, he could come and go.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah. Or an extra kidney.

[John Holmberg]

Dave Nash, drunk we found on the street, who's also Dale's ex radio partner. Not just ex partner, but ex radio partner. He wanted that to be clear. Used to do it. You do a podcast. You're gonna get your podcast going here soon. We'll talk about that later. But you're well versed in the world of media, are you not?

[Dale]

Not really, no.

[Dave Nash]

Okay.

[Dale]

Just because I was on the radio doesn't mean I don't know squat.

[John Holmberg]

The whole thing before the show was give me an introduction. That lends me credibility. I do it. I don't know much media. I don't know what I'm doing.

[Dale]

Well, I'm not. I'm not giving you an avenue toot my horn about the fact that I did radio and this and that and blah, blah, blah.

[John Holmberg]

You just like to do a pass.

[Dale]

Introducing me as some maniac, some lunatic or some drunk off the street.

[John Holmberg]

I didn't say that. At the end of the show, it's a. A madman with a bullhorn. And that's your segment. And you call yourself the angry female.

[Dale]

I am not a madman. I am as. As, you know, reasonable as you'll ever find.

[John Holmberg]

You know who screams that very phrase?

[Dave Nash]

Mad Men.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. They're the only ones that have to say it out loud. Everyone knows. Or if you know. You know how they say that if you don't know, you're the guy at the poker table that has the tell. If you can't see, who's the guy with the Tell.

[Dale]

I have a tell?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. When you scream out loud, I have a tell. I am not a madman. Most people do that with their behavior.

[Dale]

I get it.

[Dave Nash]

You know, there's a jerk in every room, and if you look around and go, there's no jerks in here.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, guess what?

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. So he tells me before the show starts, introduce me better. Let the people know that I have.

[Dale]

To introduce you better.

[John Holmberg]

I just essentially, I'm paraphrasing because.

[Dale]

No, because you go, and I don't know who this guy does or who he is or where is he. Walked into the studio.

[John Holmberg]

Every time I say, you want to mention your podcast? Oh, no, we can't do that. Yeah, that's crazy talking.

[Dale]

I'm like, what do you want me to introduce you? I'm doing it eventually.

[John Holmberg]

What do you want me to introduce? You want me to mention your business? Oh, no, I don't want you talking about that nonsense. All right. Entrepreneur. Yeah, I don't want you doing any of that. So then he says, dale, you can back me on this.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

At least say, I'm Dale's ex radio partner. So they know I've got some credibility in radio. And I say, he's Dale's ex radio partner. You're savvy with. I gave you the avenue. You're savvy with the media. And you go, no, I don't know anything about that.

[Dale]

Well, again, I, I, I'm just to be.

[John Holmberg]

Just say, yep, I sure am. And we're moving on.

[Dave Nash]

He wants to be humble. That's humble.

[John Holmberg]

You know what? I'm not a passive aggressive loon who wants somebody to say something, then they do, and then you're like, ah, you know, I didn't want you to say, that's good. I didn't want to tell people I'm a radio host. I didn't want everybody to think, come on, at least come to my side of the table every once in a while.

[Dave Nash]

Go.

[John Holmberg]

I'm Dave Nash, and I'm pretty damn good at what I do.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah, well, why don't we go to the people who are pretty good at what they do? What else do you do besides this podcast?

[John Holmberg]

Oh, that's right. Thanks, Dale, for throwing that out there. I'm host of the wildly successful Morning Show 98 KUPD's Morning Sickness here in Phoenix, Arizona. You, sir, not just a three time world champion back in the 90s, also host another program called the Main Event with some guy, a guy named Steve McComb. Fellow Dobson, fellow Dobson High School graduates.

[Dave Nash]

You can find on Robat TV or any of your podcasts.

[John Holmberg]

Media moguls.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

All throughout the room trying to get you to admit to it. And then you tell me not to say that.

[Dale]

No, I like to stay behind the scenes, like the globalists that are trying to take.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, no, see, this is what I am not.

[Dale]

That is where. That is how you get things accomplished.

[John Holmberg]

I am not a madman.

[Dale]

I'm just taking after the experts that are doing it that have been stealing our livelihood.

[John Holmberg]

Okay.

[Dale]

You may have prosperity for the past hundred years.

[Dave Nash]

You have five minutes at the end.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. You may have some credibility when you scream, I'm not a madman, but your next sentence can't have the word globalists in it. That way. Give us a buffer.

[Dale]

I don't want to get on the subject, but you don't believe there's globalism.

[Dave Nash]

Oh, no, no, no.

[John Holmberg]

Totally. But I'm saying in order to continue having people ease into your world, you can't scream, I'm not a madman, and then say, by the way, the globalists are like, you can't do. You gotta say, how's the weather? You have to be under control of the Jews.

[Dale]

Other than that, I have never been confused with someone who eases into something.

[John Holmberg]

No, I am never super aware of that. Anyway, that's Dave Nash. That's your introduction this week.

[Dale]

Great.

[John Holmberg]

Too bad there's nothing to talk about in sports. Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

I don't know.

[John Holmberg]

What are we gonna talk about in the NBA? It's the only time of the year we can get super excited. Dave was gonna throw something. What you got?

[Dale]

No, I was just gonna say we talked about this, I think, at the end of the last show. How. How Tim Donaghy. And there's.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, yeah, we brought.

[Dale]

We talked about it, you know, and.

[John Holmberg]

I looked that up this morning. Interesting. We'll get. Everybody's kind of aware, I'm sure, of the gambling thing. We're going to get into the Donaghy thing to me still. And I've. I've never screamed and yelled about it because it didn't mean anything. But I've always found that to be absolutely fascinating that even to this day, they're only saying it was like 800 bucks a game. Like, why is that lie perpetuated when we already know there's no way anybody's doing this for $1,000? There's.

[Dale]

It's just not happening now.

[John Holmberg]

He was that addicted to gambling, and they're trying to sell us, like, oh, so sick. I'd have done it for a dollar.

[Dale]

He.

[Dave Nash]

There's only one.

[John Holmberg]

Exactly. Like, okay, so we get into it with that. That's a perfect way to get into the next thing. Chauncey Billups, head coach of the Portland Trailblazers hall of Fame NBA player, played for the Pistons. I think the. Was it the Bucks? I don't remember.

[Dave Nash]

He bounced around a little bit, but.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, I mean, you know his name because the guy was a baller. He could play. Now I. I'm with Nash on this one a little bit where I'm like, when I saw hall of Famer, I'm like, oh, yeah. And then I'm like, really?

[Dave Nash]

It's. It's easy getting there.

[John Holmberg]

It might be a little easy.

[Dave Nash]

Easy.

[John Holmberg]

It is tough, but it's still.

[Dave Nash]

Right. A lot more people in the NBA hall of Fame.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Than in the NFL or Major League Baseball.

[John Holmberg]

Right. Because their hall of Fame is a struggling mess. They want to get as many cities involved in names that are recognizable. Chauncey Billups, over his career, $100 million. You got a player down in Miami doing this. What you said there's only one with Donahue or. What was his name? Donahue, Right?

[Dale]

Yeah. Tim Donahue.

[John Holmberg]

So only one there. Chauncey Phillips was not the only coach approach to be part of this entire ring that is going on. And for the people who don't know the. Why are you listening? You should know. Why would you pick up on this sportscast if you're just like, why are they. The thing that went down is that the FBI investigation Operation Nothing but Net.

[Dave Nash]

Which I really like that one, really.

[John Holmberg]

Operation Nothing but Net broke out two very distinct but overlapping gambling issues that they said their word envelops the NBA. Now, if that's something that they say is going to envelop an entire association or sports league, you're not just going, we got Chauncey Billups. That's it. You've asked several other people, which now reminds us all how incredibly involved the underground is in professional sports, that the tentacles got a guy and they're like, they're not stopping there. And it also means that people were asked and turned it down and stayed quiet.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

There's no possible way this was the first guy we asked is in and we're stopping there.

[Dave Nash]

Well, there's two things that jump to mind after talking about now for the third time and thinking about it. Yes. Obviously, you don't hit the first target that you go after. This is multifaceted. You. You've asked minimum two, three, four, five other guys, maybe more. Oh, for the thing that also jumps at me because that was the first thing on my mind. You're talking about two guys who've made over $100 million in their career. Yeah, over $100 million. I know you make a good. I know you make a good buck, but you're not quite there yet. Another few years. But why on earth would you think that you need more money? That's where my mind went. Are you, you know, if you're rozier, are you getting a kickback? And if you're the coach, are you. But then it don. I mean, whether it's talking to you, just talking it through, it's like, no, these guys got themselves. They're into something, into a hole, somehow, some way, somewhere. And it seems like these card games.

[John Holmberg]

So there was card games. Here's the thing that's throwing us all. And you know, we're recording this the day it all broke, right? So maybe you'll listen to this three days from now and you'll go, they didn't know.

[Dave Nash]

We don't.

[John Holmberg]

We like this is brand new. So this, this is, you know, released on the day after it all comes out.

[Dale]

I'm pretty sure it happened. And there's a lot of people involved even it's just not going to be a. Oh, but it really wasn't that bad.

[John Holmberg]

Devil's advocate to what I said earlier and what Dale said too, is maybe it was a grooming situation. And I know that's how the mob and gambler works with boxing. At least in the old days, they would groom the boxer. You buy them early, you've been in their pocket for a long time. The thing that stands out to me is Chauncey Billups is in. Is in card games. To lend the card games authenticity in the Hamptons, in New Jersey, in Miami, where he never was a name.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

It would make sense if it's Grosse Pointe, Michigan. It would make sense if we're in Detroit and he, he was something. It would make sense that he's the guy that people want to meet. Oh, I'm at this high stakes card game and Chauncey Billups is there. If it's in the Hamptons, in New Jersey, it's like, we've got Chauncey Billups. He has to do what we say no. And he's going to show up to NBA hall of Famer. It's still interesting. And God knows who else was at this party.

[Dave Nash]

Correct.

[John Holmberg]

So I'm looking at this like, did they groom him to go against what we were saying? Maybe they didn't ask a bunch of different guys. Maybe they've had Chauncey Billups under their thumb for such a long time because he was into him a while ago and kept it quiet. Because this is not an operation. If the three of us decided to go crazy and start to extort people. And Dave comes and goes. I hit. I hit it out of the yard the first. The first guy I asked.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

Or I've had this guy I've been kind of manipulating for a while. I can make him do this for us.

[Dave Nash]

Or he's gambled.

[John Holmberg]

And so I start to wonder who's part of what and how many guys knew. And that's what really is going to be the sweater thread that. I don't know, I want that pulled. I don't know that if you start tugging on this thing and the sweater starts to disappear, we lose a league.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah. And that's interesting that you say that because again, they successfully, for the most part, kept it to Tim Donaghe on the. On the refereeing scandal and absolute lies.

[John Holmberg]

About the amounts and like it was.

[Dave Nash]

Him, it was his, but they sequestered it to one guy. I think common sense says there's more than one guy, but that's a great way to put it. If you tell everybody's pulled that one thread, then all of a sudden you got a big friggin hole in your.

[John Holmberg]

Shirt or gigantic mess and it's irreparable, like you cannot go back.

[Dave Nash]

And I have a feeling I'm looking.

[John Holmberg]

At the angry fan over here.

[Dave Nash]

I. I have a feeling that angry fan wants to not only pull the thread, he wants to take some scissors to it.

[John Holmberg]

Why have you sat back in your chair in disdain, Dave?

[Dale]

It's just. It, it.

[John Holmberg]

Because I. Cause I said I wanted.

[Dale]

I got nothing to say on it.

[John Holmberg]

You say, I want to remember what.

[Dave Nash]

How do you.

[Dale]

I, I don't. I can't find the words for what.

[Dave Nash]

Do you want the association to go away?

[Dale]

No, because I don't think it's the people that run basketball that are at fault for this.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[Dale]

So I don't have. I'm not smart enough to know the next steps in regards to cleaning this up and going forward. I'm not that smart.

[John Holmberg]

But it doesn't matter if you're that smart because it just opened the eyes of so many people who just like sports that maybe. And I know you're going to love this, hearing this, because it's going to seem like, of course, maybe what we've been watching the Entire time is World Federation Wrestling.

[Dale]

I said this again last week in regards to the Pittsburgh San Diego. I think it's been happening in the NFL and that's just personal and that. And that is a conspiracy theory. I don't have anything more.

[John Holmberg]

But that's more gamblers making money. This is more entirety of league being out of control of its own, you know, situation. And then, you know, it was hard enough this morning on ESPN when they were announcing this with their, you know, clutching their pearls, the entire can you believe Kit and in the bottom right hand corner of the screen BET ESPN app available now. And it's kind of like, oh, okay boys, like you made this bed and now you're confused by the gambling.

[Dale]

And, and for me, I've been a gambler all my life, so I enjoy gambling. I. That was a. That was a.

[John Holmberg]

For everything you've been gambling has been predetermined.

[Dale]

Oh, I get that. And that's why one of my main criteria when I'm looking at a game is if everyone has their money on one side, I'm wary. I want to go the other way because I don't think Las Vegas is, is not going to try to do what they can to make sure that they don't lose a boatload of money. Yeah, I would. If you could give me every team that is. Is has less money on it. That's. And, and I would bet that way. I'm sure I would win money. Yeah, I'm sure I, I should just bet across the board. If I get accurate information of how much money's been bet on one side, the majority, I'll take the other team take the other and I'm going to win.

[John Holmberg]

Just to know it's got a balance.

[Dave Nash]

But there's. To me, this is so layered and messy in the fact that somehow Chauncey Billups, for whatever reason, I'm sure it will come out got messed. Is messing around with the mob.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

And somehow some way. Because I don't think any human being. If you're a coach, you're a player. John, you never played at the professional level. I'm not dissing you. But, but I don't think you ever played a game that you don't want to win. No, I don't care. You're playing pickleball on your Steelers.

[John Holmberg]

It's a competitive.

[Dave Nash]

Yes. If you're an athlete, 95% of people are super competitive.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

And so I would never throw anything unless.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, unless.

[Dave Nash]

Unless something you, you went down a path off the court or Field. And now they're saying, hey John, we need you to do this. Or guess what? Your wife.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Your dogs, Things that are important in your life. Guess what? Yeah. You might want to say goodbye.

[John Holmberg]

And the worst part is you then do it. And now you're on the hook.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

And you're there forever. It's like, you know what, what about next time?

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

I thought we were fair. I thought we were even. Which means Chauncey Billups, who's the coach, it's not like he's on hard times. He's the coach of the Portland Trailblazers, a team that's not, you know, one of the high risers.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And they've kind of dealt away all their stuff. But this guy is well known. I, I talked to Kevin Ray, the Suns announcer and a couple guys in the. Chauncey Billups is known as a guy who can probably turn a franchise around. You give him the right people.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

He's tough, he's hard headed. Yeah.

[Dale]

You give him a mafia group, but.

[John Holmberg]

Then you find out he's got all this other stuff going on. And not only were these poker games like illegal gambling, they were high tech cheater games with X ray machines reading the cards from above. The shoes were all rigged.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And now Chauncey Billups is in the mix of the people who are putting these games on and he's got to play naive to that now. And that's going to be mighty hard to do.

[Dave Nash]

And they're talking multi millions of dollars.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. We're talking massive money, which makes sense.

[Dale]

Oh, they didn't just make $800 like Tim Donahue.

[John Holmberg]

Well that's the thing that, and there you go like that. You get that if the initial report is 7 million, it's probably 100.

[Dale]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

You know what I mean? And so they're like, yeah, we cannot, we cannot account for this. But Cash Patel, the director of the FBI came out and said that this is, I mean we're at a federal investigation here. This is, this is not minor. And what does the NBA, what does that mean? Yeah, what the. You can't just arrest three guys and say to envelope league. And that's all there are.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

There's a lot here that is just surface bubbles. And it makes you wonder like, you know, and again here we all are with our, our, our fanduels, our bet MGMs, our handheld apps that they have pushed on us saying we know you love it. We've figured out a way to make this legal. And they say it all the time. Legal sports gambling.

[Dave Nash]

Correct.

[John Holmberg]

It is not if the games are fake. It is not if one.

[Dave Nash]

I heard you talking about that on your wildly successful show.

[John Holmberg]

And it gets to the point where Joe Public now has recourse, because these fanduels and these apps keep accurate records of everything you've done. And it's no longer illegal to call the police and say, hey, my bookie screwed me.

[Dave Nash]

Right. You know, 20 years ago.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. Oh, you. You make a bad bet, and the guy's like, we fixed the game.

[Dave Nash]

Tim the thumb, you know, screwed me.

[John Holmberg]

Now there's a bigger amount of money turning around going, wait a second. And it's not because I've always thought that when the mob got screwed by fixed NFL games or NBA games, that's who they were protecting was Vegas from having the mob pull out and go, we're not gonna be part of this anymore.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

If you guys aren't gonna play it on the up and up, we'll go back to the old way.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And do it ourselves. And, man, this is. This is.

[Dave Nash]

Well, and this is. The other thing that I saw was Bradley Beal. Yeah. Is another one that. I don't know if they arrested him yet.

[John Holmberg]

Well, they should for last year. And the sun still have to pay him 5.

[Dave Nash]

Bradley Beal, Gilbert Arena.

[John Holmberg]

I'll give her a rent. I was gonna say Brad, in your Bradley Beal thing.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

But it's on both of our minds that he should be in jail.

[Dave Nash]

Yes. Gilbert Arenas. And the word that I'm reading again over the next couple days, we'll figure out more. But he's willing to talk.

[John Holmberg]

And that's. Yeah. And there. And there you go. The FBI doesn't mess around arresting the head of the snake. They.

[Dave Nash]

They.

[John Holmberg]

They don't know who it is yet. They'll arrest the guys who they know probably are like, you're in deep.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And you've got family. You've got the NBA. And the NBA pressure on Chauncey Billups to go spill the beans here. Like, because if this is. We have to get a David. They have to get so far ahead of.

[Dave Nash]

Are they going to say that? Are they. Spill the beans. Are they going to say, hey, go to your grave.

[John Holmberg]

Or that. Yeah. Or zip it. Yeah. Well, somebody's got to get a hold of them. The FBI got them first.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Because if the NBA maybe. Well, if the NBA had lead time on this, I guarantee you there had been a story that. Chauncey, you're about to go down here.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And we're not. We are Going to tell you what to say next, because they.

[Dave Nash]

This.

[John Holmberg]

This threatens the whole shebang.

[Dave Nash]

You know, it's interesting you say that. The lead time, because every year in Dallas, supposedly you had a random drug test to start the season. Nobody knew. I'm doing quotation marks.

[Dale]

I'm sorry.

[Dave Nash]

We're not on finger quotes. Finger quotes.

[Dale]

It's a good thing we're not.

[Dave Nash]

And we're working on it. Well, we got the eye candy. Just one camera focused on me. Oof. But guess what? The word spread through the locker room pretty quick. It's gonna be on July 28th.

[John Holmberg]

They knew.

[Dave Nash]

So the guys who were doing things that would get them in trouble, they knew the exact time to get things off. They had the lead time. There's no way. FBI, I believe. But here's the crazy thing that we're talking about on my other show, John, is every professional sports team has a former FBI guy in their organization.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, you've told me about this.

[Dave Nash]

Yes. And they're the ones that are out there. Hey, I hear Dave Nash is hanging out at so and so Club. And then, you know, we need to. We need that.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Things like that. So did the Portland guy not even know? Was it that secretive?

[John Holmberg]

All these things goes back to games in the Hamptons in New York, and that's a rich area. You don't need Chauncey Billups in the Hampton. You get Billy Joel and Howard Stern. Like, the whole place is littered with stuff.

[Dave Nash]

Maybe they asked them and they said.

[John Holmberg]

No, again, something's not right yet. This is just a little scratch. And the scary part is, we'll say this and sound crazy if it turns out that this is all that's been arrested or charged. I don't buy it. I don't think that Chauncey Billups is the guy they turn to to have $20 million poker games and say he makes it authentic.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

He's not my guy.

[Dave Nash]

It does not make.

[John Holmberg]

Not at all. And then you go into the other half of this, which is rosier down in Miami, and we saw the thing that they just announced that. That did possibly. Allegedly, he had told a few people, hey, I'm not going to make it through this game. So not going to hit my stats tonight. Everybody took the $200,000 in bets on Terry Rozier Go float in the middle of March. Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

And not a playoff game.

[Dale]

That's when they're gonna do it.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale]

And I'm telling you, I don't know how you fight that. I mean, seriously, because guys are going to get hurt. And if they say I was really hurt.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[Dale]

Or if they don't say which truth, it really wasn't hurt. But I told some people to throw some money on.

[John Holmberg]

Think of that, what we talked about a couple weeks ago. And again, you put the tinfoil hat on with this kind of stuff because you always feel like everything's not. Dave, you, you, you, you may think we're not on your side. Some of us think, you know, you're the loud screamer Don Quixote. But deep down, we all know some of this makes sense. Because I think we're skeptical of everything that makes sense. We need to be. We should be. But you start going down these, these, I don't know, these, these things where you feel like, okay, it's been exposed, like everything I watch is not real. All this stuff is fake. And all these things that we're trying to figure out with sports and all this other stuff aren't on the up and up.

[Dave Nash]

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[John Holmberg]

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[Dave Nash]

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[Dale]

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[John Holmberg]

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[Dave Nash]

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[Dale]

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[John Holmberg]

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[Dale]

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[Dale]

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[John Holmberg]

Again I go back to the sweater thread, do we want that pulled? Or we just allow it to be our entertainment?

[Dale]

So you want to live in a world where everything's fake, that you don't know anything?

[John Holmberg]

That's.

[Dale]

That's the whole thing about the show I'm doing.

[John Holmberg]

But. Yeah, but we all know everything could possibly be that.

[Dale]

But then, all right, when you are confronted with evidence that confirms that my problem is. And what you're saying right now is what I think more than half of the people out there, they. I'm doing a show. It's called the Real Matrix.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[Dale]

And. And I, I base it on the fact that in that movie you can either take the red pill or the blue pill. And I think a lot of people would rather take the blue pill and just say, I want to live in my little fake. Everything is by happenstance and random and I'm trying to do the right things. And there's not people behind the scenes that are orchestrating what's really going on that I believe that most people don't want to know. I do. And I'm affected by the fact that what we're seeing half the time or more is really not the truth. And what's going on.

[John Holmberg]

Sure.

[Dale]

You just said and, and, and I agree. You are a majority people say, I don't want to know.

[John Holmberg]

I don't want it ruined because it means something to me. But then again, we go back to that exact thing we talked about a little bit ago. And you know, like I said, the tinfoil hats go on. Basketball has had this load management thing for a few months and years. And they're like, he's only going to play a certain amount of minutes and Vegas has to figure out like, okay, if he's only. If he's on load management time clock. And the coach says he's only going to go for 20 tonight, for sure they're going to cut it. His points are going to be lower. And then it's real easy to look at that before. And I know, I don't know, Dale, if you ever looked at the under overs on things, it didn't matter as much when you were playing. But I know as an individual athlete, if I see, look, these dudes pay attention to the John Madden ratings.

[Dave Nash]

Absolutely.

[John Holmberg]

Immediately. So I know for a fact every day they're looking at this going, I'm going up against Demar DeRozan. You think I'm only going to get 18. My under over is 18. Watch this. Or, guys, this dude locks me down.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

Put the money on this and so you start wondering, is the load management thing part of this is the. Is the coach? Is the NBA in on all this?

[Dave Nash]

Let me ask you a question, because I don't think Dave is much of an NBA fan. I think he'll dabble in it and watch it or whatever you are. I love it and I am.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

After the Don Hay thing.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Are you still into basketball as much.

[John Holmberg]

As you honestly were before? No, not even close. I quit. You know, when I quit basketball, there were two times the strike and was it 99. What I thought was just asinine, the way they treated the fans when they came back, like we owed them something. And then a couple of things happened. Here we go. This is the. This is the Nash podcast. A couple things happened that I'm like, oh, this thing I love is. Is. Is manipulated and phony. The Kobe Bryant trade off the draft for Vlad Divots was a complete arrangement. The Luka Doncic trade was a complete arrangement. Cooper Flag going to Dallas was a complete arrangement. There isn't an. There isn't a single sports fan out there that thinks Cooper Flag going to Dallas with that 0.8% chance they pull the number one pick after you're like, will you please give your best player to the Lakers because our biggest franchise is about to lose LeBron. We need a cornerstone for 10 years.

[Dale]

You can go back to the New York Knicks and Patrick Hewitt.

[John Holmberg]

It's constant. You're absolutely right. Oh, Jesus. When the. When they first started that ball thing, you forget that the Sixers, who were in the Eastern Conference finals against the Celtics in the Eastern Conference finals, ended up somehow or another with the number one and two draft picks because they were starting to age out and they're like, we got to get these guys to compete with the Lakers who look like they're going to be good forever. And we have rivalries. East, West. It was great for the game.

[Dale]

All of those.

[John Holmberg]

All of it's fake.

[Dale]

All of those draft picks. I tell you what, I've been at a show where I've watched a guy make a car disappear right in front of me. Make an elephant disappear, cut a woman in half and put her back together. And you say, you can't fix a.

[John Holmberg]

Ping pong ball, but here's the other side again, because I like to look at both sides so we can fix the pink. But why do they do it? And some years you get money. I know. But why do they do it? In some years, Achilles Smith is your number one pick. Why is it that some Years. They're like, what a complete catastrophe.

[Dave Nash]

Okay, so we. So, so we've got way, way off. My initial question.

[John Holmberg]

Dave did that.

[Dave Nash]

It's my fault you have season tickets to the Sun. Yeah, maybe it's as much for the Rah Rah room as it is for the game.

[John Holmberg]

It is for the game. I love the game.

[Dave Nash]

Okay, so the Tim Donahue thing, even though, Even though it did bring like, huh. Well, there's more than one guy involved. I wonder how many of these games are fixed. Blah, blah, blah. But whatever that is, it hasn't dampened your.

[John Holmberg]

Well, I'll tell you this. What I was going to finish that with for Dave made everything crazy is the time I did quit watching basketball. And the Sun's kind of helped that a little bit when Colangelo left and all that. And the Portland Trail Blazers played the Lakers in a playoff game. The Pacers had just clinched the east and it was going to be Portland and Indiana in the finals because Portland had a 16 point lead in the fourth quarter.

[Dave Nash]

Or was it Sacramento? Was it.

[John Holmberg]

No, the Sacramento game's even worse.

[Dave Nash]

Okay, okay, so.

[John Holmberg]

But Portland, Portland was going to win that game. And the Lakers rattled off like a 160 run where I think it was Cliff Robinson maybe if that's. It took a charge that was so obviously a charge from Shaquille o'. Neal. And I mean, just blown up and Shaquille dunks it. No whistle, other end of the floor tap. Kobe whistle. I'm like, we're letting them run guys over. I mean, it could be a 50, 50 gray call. Three or four calls, all go the Lakers way. That's the famous run where Kobe threw that alley oop up to Shaq and they were dominant in the fourth. Every call in that run went against the Trailblazers. And just the Lakers just Magic comeback. They. They were being destroyed. Suddenly they're not letting Portland touch them. I think they wanted that game to get close. Like, we got to get this thing close. At least make it look like the Lakers made a run. And if they lose it in the end, close, that's fine, but get them back in this game. And I remember watching that going, this is the most egregious fix I've ever watched. And I had no horse in the race.

[Dale]

So what you're saying is we're not going to get the NBA to sponsor our show?

[John Holmberg]

No, no, no, no. They're never going to come. But the Dale asked, when did it. When did it dampen my enthusiasm for the game? That game right there.

[Dave Nash]

Okay, so. But the Donahue thing.

[John Holmberg]

The Donahe came after that, but it was in that time frame. I mean, that King series is one of the most. Like, what are we doing? Like, you are fixing this in front of us.

[Dave Nash]

And. And you're right, because the thing is, I'm a huge Suns fan. You're a huge Suns fan. But we had no dog in the race who. I don't care if the Lakers win.

[John Holmberg]

Or second, it's the Western Conference. I don't like any of them.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

So, yeah, I. That was terrible. So then the Donahue thing comes out, and then they lied to us about the end result of that. So does it dampen the average fan? Yes. But it took seven, maybe eight, nine years for me to get back into basketball.

[Dave Nash]

And I think that was also combined with the fact that Sarver owned this team.

[John Holmberg]

Huge.

[Dave Nash]

And through the teens, the sun sucked.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. And I also didn't like when they brought zone defense in and they kind of changed the game. I liked and made a perimeter shooting game. It's kind of boring to me. And then Steph Curry came along and changed everything to be like, okay, it's not just a perimeter shooting game. It's 40% from outside the three. This just got real good. So, you know, the talent won over, and I ended up getting back in the game.

[Dave Nash]

But you're right.

[John Holmberg]

I mean, can it be dampened? Yes. Am I. You know, am I an abused husband that will go back to the. The thing that says it loves me and treats me like crap? Of course I will. I'm a Cubs fan. I'm. Of course I will, but. You start. But the last thing I want. I've always had a theory is, like, people can be lied to, but they don't like being fooled. Like, if you lie to me, I'm like. And I'm like, hey, that's not true. We can discuss that. If you fool me, you've played on my intelligence, My. My vulnerability, my trust, my trust. It all isn't. Fooling me is worse. The Jussie Smollet thing wasn't about the lie. It was about you. You don't like being fooled emotionally, and you try to. You try to bring my. Sports is all emotion.

[Dave Nash]

Well, the other thing about sports is I know you two think a little bit differently, but in my mind, it's always been about what you're watching. The reason I think boxing went the way it did was because all of a sudden, you're watching a boxing match, you're going, I don't know. If this is on the up and up.

[John Holmberg]

So correct.

[Dave Nash]

You know. And yet when you watch a football game, I think majority of people think they're watching two teams compete. Yes. And the best team's going to win. The team that makes the last mistakes is going to win the game. But now if you're going to come up and tell me that, oh, there's some stuff going on.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

You don't want, at least. I don't want my three major sports to go the way of boxing. No.

[John Holmberg]

And that's, and that's a great point is that boxing was the number one sport in America for years, right next to horse racing. What's the commonality in both of those? They started to fix them regularly and it fell out of favor. People and people still love boxing, but we don't trust it. We've been fooled too many times.

[Dale]

I was just thinking, can we call this the Bummer podcast?

[John Holmberg]

It's kind of a downer tape.

[Dale]

This is a, this is not, this is all negative in regards to sports.

[John Holmberg]

What's positive about this particular situation? Put the silver lining on it.

[Dave Nash]

The mob made some money.

[John Holmberg]

The mob's back, baby.

[Dave Nash]

Hey, there you go.

[John Holmberg]

I'll tell you one thing that's going to come out of this one fantastic documentary. Another 30 for 30 and then a movie possibly, if Scorsese can live long enough to make this whole thing come full circle. It's awesome.

[Dale]

I want to, I can, I can only pile on the bummer part, which.

[Dave Nash]

Is he just calls it out.

[John Holmberg]

Why are you, why are you making us feel bad about discussing today's event?

[Dale]

Because it brings us back to football. I think football has been whacked out for.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale]

For, for longer than, than this.

[John Holmberg]

Because.

[Dale]

And I'll ask you the question, or listeners ask the question. How do you give a defensive holding call, which is you watch defensive holdings and someone might grab a little shirt here or there or whatever. Okay. I could see it's a five yard penalty, but an automatic first down.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[Dale]

How do you do that and why do you do that? Unless you want to sustain a drive.

[John Holmberg]

You can easily remedy a thing that's dying that you need to correct. You know, recess.

[Dale]

I mean, I've never understood the, the minimal defensive holding that goes along with an automatic first down.

[Dave Nash]

Well, the whole thing is in all sports with our, with the way the United States is right now, nobody wants to see a one nothing baseball game, pitchers duel. Now again, if you're, if you're a hardened baseball fan, I love it. That's a Thing of beauty. But you're in the 5% or the 3% or whatever and nobody wants to see a 6, 3 defensive battle on the football field.

[Dale]

I. So when you say, you know, are people going to watch less? I already watch a football game and I see a defensive holding call on the opposite side of the field where the ball wasn't thrown. That was just inconsequential. And, and the drive continues. Yeah, I, it, it, it's maddening to me. I can't take it. It drives me crazy. And so I.

[Dave Nash]

You still gamble? You still gamble?

[Dale]

Well, because honestly, if I didn't gamble.

[John Holmberg]

I, you wouldn't watch.

[Dale]

I wouldn't want. I could care really.

[John Holmberg]

So you have to have stake in the game to be interested in the product?

[Dale]

Absolutely.

[John Holmberg]

No, kid, the opposite.

[Dale]

And I get that. And, and you can say that's, you know, that's just a poor character or whatever, but I'm not interested in watching Cincinnati play Seattle. I don't care. Unless I actually have a rooting interest, which is financial. And it's not.

[John Holmberg]

What he's saying here, Dale is he has a price. And that was all last podcast.

[Dale]

Oh, but, but Satan, it's, it's just to make myself say I want to. I'm going to get, I'm going to root for something here. I will, because I don't care.

[John Holmberg]

I'll watch a Sunday night game between the Falcons and the, you know, I don't know, the Buccaneers. I have no interest in this game. So if I put a bet on it.

[Dale]

Correct.

[John Holmberg]

I have a, I have a feigned interest.

[Dale]

And honestly, that is what, you know, just pushed the NFL popularity is people gambling on the NFL.

[John Holmberg]

Fancy football started that where people weren't.

[Dave Nash]

Fancy football got like, my daughters are each in a couple leagues.

[John Holmberg]

The girls are enjoying that because there's a, there's a personal gain at the end more than the emotion.

[Dale]

Correct.

[John Holmberg]

And the emotion is what they played us with. But again, if you toy with our emotions and fool us and say, be loyal, be loyal, be loyal. Love us, love us, love us. And take look, the money you're spending is well spent. And then they fool you. You do. Like that's so different than just getting punched. Even people don't like it. They don't like being fooled. And then our emotions get involved and then you find out everything was bad. I think that. And going into this NBA thing, this Chauncey Billups and Terry Rosier and all the other people, 31 people arrested in this deal. I do think that the danger is. And there will be a cover up. I guarantee you there will be a cover up because there's too much money at stake to let it fly and say, let's just give the truth. This is, this is a dangerous thing that has to. The fans have now got to say, are we going to go forward with this and just ignore it and put blinders on and love the game, or is this enough for us to say, okay, it all has to be exposed and we're going to start over because the game doesn't die. The league does. Like boxing, like horse racing. And they never recovered.

[Dave Nash]

No, Bob, boxing has never recovered.

[John Holmberg]

You had a stretch in the 80s, 70s and 80s where boxing was wildly popular because of the people in it, right? And then the 90s came along. Tyson was probably the last one. I think he's the death of boxing. I'm getting an argument with anybody about like, I think he was the worst thing that ever happened in the heavyweight division because we started getting fooled. They didn't give us games or we couldn't watch that without paying 60 bucks for 14 seconds of fighting. And then they never apologized or gave us something in return. They did it again a couple weeks later.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And then he couldn't beat anybody good. And boxing loses because nobody trusts it. It fooled us too often. We're pretty forgiving.

[Dave Nash]

Yes, mostly if you're honest.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, we're pretty forgiving when it comes to sports screwing with us. You keep doing it. And I'm worrying like the NBA that you're right. The Donahue thing on top of that. You've seen some things along the way. If you're, if you're.

[Dale]

It's happened multiple times in college.

[John Holmberg]

But if you're naive to the Cooper flag draft and you're naive to that, that's good. That's a nice thing. I disagree with Dave that sometimes living fat and happy and dumb ain't so bad when it comes to your life distractions. And that's what sports.

[Dave Nash]

55 years like that. He's a pretty happy go, lucky guy.

[Dale]

I've got some more blue pills here for you to take.

[John Holmberg]

But I don't mind taking the blue pill sometimes. And sports is my blue pill. Sports is my pill to go. I don't want to deal with what's really happening. I want to watch some guys, you know, compete at a level I could never dream of, even though I'm pretty good at a couple of things. But I never got to that. And it's frustrating to just watch the beauty of it. It Would be like if they fixed ballet for people who love. Like, how do you fix it? It's like the most beautiful thing you can watch. And then you find out, oh, it was all smoke and mirrors. It's AI. You never watched anything. It's all been fantastic.

[Dale]

I think you'd be a great fixer, though. I think you'd.

[John Holmberg]

You'd sell six games.

[Dale]

Yeah. You'd sell your soul for not very much. You'd be in there, you'd be like.

[John Holmberg]

My price is low. I would sell my soul, but it's a heavy fee.

[Dave Nash]

He turned out a lot of money one time.

[John Holmberg]

I've turned down a lot of money in the past doing things with sketchy people, but it was, again, self preservation.

[Dale]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

It had nothing to do with the money part. It was like, I'm gonna get in trouble if I take this.

[Dale]

Yeah. So if you knew, you would have got in trouble. You take the money and you think.

[Dave Nash]

Chauncey Billups and Rogier didn't think they'd get caught.

[John Holmberg]

And there's the other thing. Now you're both. Dale and I have told the stories of being in rooms with people that weren't on the up and up, and there was potentially free things being given or money exchanging. It was like, this just feels funny. You're in a room with Israeli mob, Russian mob, the five families of New York, the Genovese, Gotti, all of them, Bonanno. I don't even know if they're still a thing, but they were in it. And you're in there, and you know they're there.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And you're the head coach of the Portland Trailblazers.

[Dave Nash]

Currently.

[John Holmberg]

It's not like you've been banished from the NBA and you can't get a job. You're currently the face of a franchise. You're the leader, and you're still walking in that room. What the hell is going on?

[Dave Nash]

Or what did you do that made you force your way?

[John Holmberg]

You say no to that? Because that isn't a thing. You're just like, I'm just gonna go. You have to go.

[Dave Nash]

And I don't think Rozier told his buddy Johnny that he didn't think he was going to hit his numbers this game because he's got an injury. He told somebody that's a little more influential than Johnny because John Holberg would tell Brady.

[Dale]

Right.

[Dave Nash]

I might be. We all put $10 down on it and nobody would know.

[John Holmberg]

You pull a Nash, you do the passive aggressive. I know Holmberg knows a guy. I'm Going to tell John and he's going to get all fired up over this. You know, I'm not going to make it through this whole game. I think I'm going to. My numbers are going to go down, because I'm not. I'm. I'm going to leave this game early.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And you can do that by baseball's one. You can just simply turn to the. You can't do it much anymore. Just simply turn to the ref and say you don't know how to call balls and strikes. Everything you do is wrong. And he throws you out of the game. You're like, done. Yeah, Bet's over. And basketball get rung up twice. It's not hard. So you can leave a game or. I've lost plenty of bets on dudes who got teched out and it drives you nuts.

[Dave Nash]

Or the questionable guy. And then all of a sudden, you know, game time decision, and he sits.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. I had Draymond Green in a game. Drove me nuts. He was in a parlay that was going to hit. And Draymond Green, right off the bat of the game, first five minutes, starts barking at somebody and gets kicked out. I had him for like six rebounds. He was going to kill this. And I had a 10 leg parlay. It was the only one that missed. And it was gone in the first minute and a half. Oh, and I watched these other little check marks go green the whole way. And I'm like, draymond kicked himself. And now he doesn't. Obviously. I know he doesn't know my bet. Oh, I've had a couple of those happen. Dude rolls his ankle in the first quarter and you're like, oh, man, that's a.

[Dale]

There's a good gambling rule to live by. Is that always bet the unders, you bet the overs.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale]

You're. You're thinking they're going to do the right. But unders, you can get an injury. You can get someone who's not trying to give a crap, whatever it may be betting. Unders is safe. Unders is safe.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale]

You can't throw in. You know, if you're betting the under, you can't. It's not thrown. Because what are they? And I'm really going to try.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, right.

[Dale]

And. Oh, I can score at will. No, no, no.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. It's interesting. So what do you guys think? Where does this go? Knowing that it's just day one to.

[Dale]

Where you asked me before I leaned back. I. I'm not smart enough.

[John Holmberg]

But do you think it gets bigger? Do you think it's covered the way the NFL has covered their issues.

[Dave Nash]

I.

[Dale]

This is not my five minutes of crazy.

[John Holmberg]

How about. Let me ask you this. Does it go away as easily as the Shohei Ohtani thing?

[Dale]

It will go away if they want it to go away, and it will. It will amplify if they are trying to keep your mind and your attention on that instead of something else. Very simply. Listen, I read this on Twitter, and the first thing I saw underneath it was, that's great. Now release the Epstein files.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, see, here we go.

[Dale]

Well, I mean. I mean, again, FBI. Great work.

[Dave Nash]

You.

[Dale]

You knock. You got the. You're. You're. You're. You're going with a fine tooth comb through basketball players in the NBA. Gambling.

[Dave Nash]

What about.

[Dale]

What about this? Blackmailing Epstein?

[John Holmberg]

Oh, Epstein.

[Dave Nash]

Has he completed a sentence? Has he completed a sentence? No, I'm still waiting for the.

[Dale]

Like I said, John, last week, that was as good as it gets. He's not going to get.

[Dave Nash]

Oh, my God.

[John Holmberg]

And you wanted a better introduction.

[Dale]

Not getting any better.

[John Holmberg]

By the way, Sean Rockefeller, our. Our blind listener who hates you.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Says, hey, guys, I'm going to send over some lunch for you, Dale and Dave Nash. Please make sure the one that is clearly marked for Dave gets to him. If it's not labeled, it's the one that smells like anthrax.

[Dave Nash]

Perfect.

[John Holmberg]

Just kidding. Of course, it's not a real death threat, but I do hate Dave Nash. Unplug his microphone. Signed, everyone, including me, Sean Rockefeller.

[Dale]

He's actually very funny.

[John Holmberg]

He is a very funny guy. Yeah.

[Dale]

Good for him.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. This person, Matt Raider, has emailed him and says, I often hear you talk on your show about people who don't like your producer, and I don't get it. I think he's great. And then there's Dave Nash. I completely get it. I am now known as Radar, the Nash hater.

[Dale]

Good.

[John Holmberg]

You're making the biggest mark on the show. Yes. And you know why? You know what that tells me? You're doing it right.

[Dave Nash]

You know what?

[John Holmberg]

Hey, you're getting the attention of the people.

[Dave Nash]

Hey, it's the Jerry Jones thing. Yeah. We don't care if you're talking good or bad about us, as long as you talk about us. Right, Dave?

[Dale]

That's why I told you I don't want. When you introduced me. Don't introduce me.

[John Holmberg]

I'll just introduce you with some of the listener emails and it's finished with. He says, that guy drives me nuts. I enjoy the podcast. I hope it sticks around. Okay, so he's getting something done. And you know what?

[Dave Nash]

It feels great.

[John Holmberg]

I'm not the a hole in this show.

[Dale]

That's the best part.

[John Holmberg]

I love that I live for you.

[Dale]

Is that why I'm here?

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[Dale]

I'm a bigger a hole than you.

[John Holmberg]

Take a little heat off of me from being the room's a hole.

[Dave Nash]

All.

[Dale]

You're welcome.

[John Holmberg]

Come on, man. It's great. Yeah, it's an interesting thing. And I looked at the Shohei Ohtani deal and I'm like, baseball's had it. All these gambling things that have come up and come back all go away. Shohei is, you know, you watch what. As a baseball fan, what we saw last week was the single greatest thing I've ever watched. I don't know that I've ever watched a baseball game. Not really been sure what I just saw. And then watched it again because the next it was on again the next morning. I'm like, you know what? I need to appreciate this. I need to watch what as it happened live. You're like, this is pretty remarkable. Now that I know the stats and I know everybody. I watched it again the next morning. It was like six in the morning.

[Dave Nash]

Nobody ever does that with baseball, ever.

[John Holmberg]

And I watched the whole thing and each pitch was masterful. It was beautiful. When you watch it now, it's the prettiest thing I've ever seen in sports. Nobody's ever done this. Nobody is up and coming. Like when Steph Curry changed the NBA with the three pointer from 28ft.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

High school kids stopped dunking the ball and started shooting bombs. And you see that manifest enough. Steph's in his 17th year, if you can believe it. Like, somehow he still looks like he.

[Dave Nash]

Still like 12 years old.

[John Holmberg]

And so he changed the game completely. And everybody that loved him in his first couple years, even when he was back in college and was doing it in college, like, this kid's special changed it. And now the game's different because of him. No one is doing what Shohei's doing even in the minors. No one is pitching and hitting. No one can do what he's doing. Which makes him insanely unique because he can't change the game.

[Dale]

Babe Ruth came around over a hundred years ago. Now we have a time, but he.

[John Holmberg]

Wasn'T the only one. People forget Babe Ruth was not the only pitcher player. There were guys who pitched and played in the field. That was about the time they made pitchers uniquely pitchers. But Babe was in that mix where some guys like, you know, would go out in the outfield. I mean, that was also in the time when people would leave their gloves on the field for when they go back to the next. It was a different game. And Babe Ruth was another one.

[Dale]

Imagine tripping on gloves.

[John Holmberg]

I go to the fall league games and I watch these guys and I'm like, do you know how hard it is to not only just break into this game, but to be great at it and then to be at the level of Babe Ruth or Alzheimer's? Because, I mean, there was Starlin Castro. There's a kid named Castro in the folly. Guy watched. I'm like, I wonder if he's related. He's not. But I'm like, isn't it amazing I'm with the guy, this guy. I'm with Craig. And I said, isn't it amazing that Starlin Castro for about seven or eight years was the face of this league? He was unbelievable. 40 home runs with the Nationals, 40 stolen bases. He's just an amazing guy. And now you don't even remember him. But Babe Ruth, yeah. Lou Gehrig, all these guys that you're going to remember forever. There's a, there's a handful.

[Dale]

I don't remember Castro.

[John Holmberg]

Starlin Castro?

[Dale]

No.

[John Holmberg]

You don't remember staring? Castro was only like 12 or 15 years ago.

[Dale]

I don't.

[John Holmberg]

Amazing player. Went away. Cubs got him for a little. I was unreal.

[Dale]

Really?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. Best. Arguably the best at his position and at, you know, at the time he was in the mix. And that's my point. Comes and goes.

[Dave Nash]

Okay, so.

[John Holmberg]

So then you get into the Shohei Ohtani thing. You're like, this is an all time.

[Dave Nash]

Generational, doing things at the highest of levels. My question I want to ask Dave while he text during the show.

[Dale]

No, I'm looking at, I'm looking up Sterling Castro.

[John Holmberg]

Well, don't give me that. He did have a couple of years where he just faded off, but, I mean, this dude was a bomber.

[Dave Nash]

But, but here's what I want to know, Dave, because you see a lot of high school baseball players, poor pitchers and shortstops or pitchers and center fielders, and they hit a lot of them, the ones who can go on to college. They hit.500 in high school. They pitch.

[Dale]

Yes.

[Dave Nash]

Why? How come? What's the reason that they have to become pitchers only when they go into college.

[Dale]

It's short sighted managers who think they will pitch better if they're not out in the field or up at the plate or they're worried about them getting hit at the plate. Their, their pitching arm or something running the bases. Yeah, they're afraid of injuries. They, they, they want them to excel in that. One thing. Most managers feel if, if he, if he concentrates on this, he will be better at this. I would rather have him at a 10 pitching or a 10 hitting than at a 8 pitching and a 7 hit, whatever, and doing both.

[John Holmberg]

But I also think there's like the idea of hitting a baseball, that's the true focus, is that if you're pitching and occasionally taking bp, you're not hitting pro pitching. So you're going to be, you're going to be a liability in a lineup. I think being a good hitter is enough to get you to college. I think getting past that, you have to be focused as a hitter. Like these, there's, you can't go in and like, you know, do your throw days and pitching and your run days and pitching and then go concentrate completely on the lineup. You have to face and understand and also go, oh, yeah, I got to get out there and start swinging the bat a little bit. Pitchers can't hit because they don't focus on hitting. Because I think if they did, Rick and Keel is a great example when he's like, I'm not pitching anymore. I can hit the hell out of a baseball, but they don't need me to be in the BP doing this because I'm only going to bat once a week. You know, it's never going to. Why waste time with the team? So it's smarter to do it that way.

[Dale]

But that's a good case point where, all right, he was probably already a good hitter. He just didn't concentrate on it. But you look at the thing that always just confuses me is catchers.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale]

You don't find a lot of good hitting catchers.

[John Holmberg]

No.

[Dale]

And catchers are in there every pitch. There's, they're seeing the ball come out of the pitcher's hands. His own, his own teammate, you would think at the plate he would have even a more of an advantage of seeing that and be able to hit that. You don't find good hitting catchers. I, I don't know why it is. It's, it's bewildered.

[John Holmberg]

I think it's a different style of athleticism to be a catcher in baseball than it is the other guys. I think a lot of times they're, they're bulky and the guys who are bulky, they're one, they're one hit wonders. They're either going to connect or they're not. So their batting averages aren't good. Or whatever. Some of them haven't, obviously. Johnny Bench and Buster Posey and guys, you can. Yeah, you can. The big dumper. I mean this. But he's hitting.260, but he's a bomber.

[Dale]

I'll give you my inside thoughts on this is when I played, and that is catchers are thinking through the game, usually thinking through the pitch. Whatever. Everyone I played with in my short little career.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale]

The best hitters were brainless.

[John Holmberg]

Or is that true?

[Dale]

Yeah, that's. That. My experience is the best hitters had the ability to just. They didn't have any. They didn't ever. They had nothing going on in their head. They didn't outthink themselves.

[John Holmberg]

You got too cute in your own brain.

[Dale]

They would just go up and go, oh, he throw. I see. I swing, I hit.

[John Holmberg]

That simplifies everything.

[Dale]

Yeah. And if you're a smart player, that's a cat. You say, all right, he's going to throw me. I'm on looking outside corner. He's probably throwing me a slider here. I got you started overthinking yourself and then you. You screw yourself up.

[Dave Nash]

Is that why you're the tops minor league baseball player?

[Dale]

Maybe, maybe, maybe that year I wasn't using my brain that well, which I should have kept doing.

[John Holmberg]

It is amazing, though, because it's. He's.

[Dave Nash]

It's.

[John Holmberg]

It's transcended just being great enough to change the game. He's so great, even what he's doing can't change the game because no one else can do it.

[Dale]

Well, again, another hard, fast rule. When I played was a. The bigger athlete.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[Dale]

All. All in all, all being equal will be better than the smaller athlete.

[John Holmberg]

A lot of times.

[Dale]

The guy's six, five, huge. He's a specimen 50, whatever. And what, he stole 50 bases last year. Whatever. Can run 50. Okay, so he's a big guy.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

You know what, what are we seeing?

[Dale]

We're seeing the evolution of athletes. It's very hard for smaller individuals to compete at that higher level because bigger, faster, stronger beats.

[John Holmberg]

Very true.

[Dave Nash]

Less.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. More athletic. Undeniable. Yeah, that's very true. More sturdy athletic build is going to last longer especially. It's just.

[Dave Nash]

He does it make. He makes it look so.

[John Holmberg]

It's so easy.

[Dale]

And that was the other point I was just going to make. You're right on time with that, Dale. The athletes that are really good, they don't have to be going 110% every second. And you're able. Just anything you do, if you do it at half Speed and you're able to do it well, it's easier and then you can ramp it up a little bit. But guys that aren't as talented like I would consider like myself when I play, I'm going 100% all the time. And that left me susceptible to injuries.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, you're winded, you're burning it at every. You're redlining the whole time.

[Dale]

Your body, you're more susceptible to injuries when you're. You're flying around 100%. Where other guys who are very, very talented, who are the 20 percenters I've talked about who have all that talent, they, they can just cruise through and then they can, they can ramp it up a little bit when they need it.

[John Holmberg]

I have to wonder though if the future because of Shohei is going to be more like what we saw is like these guys can hit in college and they're good athletes and why are we short sighted and not giving them a chance?

[Dave Nash]

Well, that's the thing that I'm thinking is like you would think that if some of these guys. He can't be the only. Now maybe somebody can't do it as good as him. But that doesn't mean that you can't bat 280.

[John Holmberg]

Give me a dollar store version of Shohei Ohtani who can hit 270 from a DH, maybe pop a few up. But you don't have a lot of power from those guys.

[Dale]

I think there was just a couple years ago and time flies when you have Alzheimer's but it was sometime here in the recent past where a kid that came out of Louisville who was. I think he was their closer and he was their first and he was in the top five in the draft. I haven't heard from him. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what happened when you get into big leagues or when you get into professional baseball because one of the other things in regards to that is you go from aluminum bats in that's true. To wood bats and it is a different game. As you said, I'm a little bigger guy. So I went from aluminum bats when I was in college. I can't tell you how many home runs I hit down foul down the left field line because I'm pretty big and strong and I aluminum bat felt like swinging a feather and I would just be too fast. The wooden bats. When I got in the big league, when I got professional ball, it's. It slowed me down enough that I kept balls in play. And so it's a different game with A wooden bat. Again, it's a game played by strong, big men generally.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. And it's remarkable what we're watching. I mean, I. Again, I've never watched a baseball game twice in a row, and I don't know that I ever will again. And that's just. That's. Again, you just put that one up there with. I watched Gretzky back when he first got in there, and he completely. And this is where I put Shohei ahead of the greatest of all time that I've ever played any game with. What he did last week is because I watched Gretzky come in five. He had 50 goals midway through 1980 season, put five in. In one game against the Broad Street Bullies, the Philadelphia Flyers. And this guy was skating around them like they were pillars. And like. And you could notice it if I could take an alien and say, watch this game and tell me who the best guy on the ice is. Like, the fast, crazy one. He's playing a different game. But even Gretzky changed the game to where young guys are like, oh, this is how you play. And they could match it. The game is different because Wayne Gretzky played it. Shohei Ohtani is going to come and go, and it's going to go back to what it's always been because no one, and I mean no one coming up can do what he's doing.

[Dale]

I agree with that.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. It's that. And that, to me, is so special.

[Dale]

Those are once in a. In a hundred years.

[John Holmberg]

I don't know that it's ever happened outside of Babe Ruth, maybe.

[Dale]

Correct.

[John Holmberg]

I don't know that it's.

[Dale]

Listen, Babe Ruth was. You know, he won over 20 games two years in a row before he started concentrating on hitting. I think he had the. The record for scoreless innings pitched.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. In the NRA was like 129 for two years. It was like.

[Dave Nash]

So.

[Dale]

So what he did was fantastic at that time. And there'll be other guys come along again. Well, after we're long dead and gone.

[John Holmberg]

But people will always remember Babe Ruth. People always remember Shohei. That's the Ohtani game now, as it should be. I loved it. And that's. And again, we full circle with the whole thing. Isn't it nice to have that escape and. And not have it be clouded by all of everybody's misery, that, oh, it's.

[Dale]

All fake, as you were to say mine. And that's going to say Dave's misery.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[Dale]

And that's true, because that's why people are probably listening to this, because sports is an outlet away from reality. And when you have an argument in regards to sports, everyone's voice counts. You don't have to be. You can see sports, you've played sports, and everyone's on the same page. You can have that discussion. But, like, when I discuss in regards to, like, real life, things that are going on that are affecting our livelihood, our lives, our families, people don't want to get involved in that because, well.

[Dave Nash]

99% of the time, people, Guys can sit around and argue about sports. Sure. This guy's better than that guy. This team's better than that team. And you walk away going, whatever.

[John Holmberg]

Okay, doesn't matter.

[Dave Nash]

You know, you talk about religion or politics or real life. You know, somebody's walking away pissed.

[Dale]

Yeah, yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And you can do it in sports with decent, normal people. Some people get upset about silly stuff, but it doesn't, in a way. It's just all of us kind of going, exhale, yeah. And it's awesome. And I just want it to be. I want it to remain my dummy moment because I invest an awful lot of time in it. And we haven't even talked about football on this one today. And my God, it's in this way. This is the best time ever in sports. All four major sports are going at once. And the WNBA is over and the Suns are one. And, oh, let's just hope this gambling problem seeps down into that wnba. And it turns out they've been. They haven't been horrible at the game. They've all been in on point shaving. Every one of them is fixing the game.

[Dale]

You know, if. If you have a gambling problem enough that you're going to bet on women's basketball, you're either mentally ill or you should be put away.

[John Holmberg]

You need to text next step. 5, 5, 4, 3, 2, whatever the number.

[Dave Nash]

Is that going to be Chaucee Bill's mea culpa?

[John Holmberg]

Could be.

[Dave Nash]

I know. I was really trying to set up the wnba.

[John Holmberg]

Do something. He's got to save something. Yeah, I would love to see that disappear through the gambling scandals. But I also noticed that the gamblers had Kevin Durant at 23 and a half as his over, under first very first game with the Rockets, which you don't know you're looking at, his lifetime average is like 26, eight or something like that.

[Dale]

Correct. But every year it's 26.

[John Holmberg]

Right. And they put him at 23 and a half for the opener and he hit 23. It's amazing.

[Dale]

Or is it Is Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Or is, or is it, Are we blown away or is it.

[Dale]

We'll let you take the, we'll let you take the five minutes of.

[John Holmberg]

No, no, no, we've had enough of that madman with a bullhorn is right in front of us. And I got my, my thing there and it is, that's not a touch screen. What happened? What happened?

[Dave Nash]

What do you think this is? This. Wow.

[John Holmberg]

Gonna get that music started to let everybody know that this podcast has come to a close. Unless you guys have seen something else to say about football, anything.

[Dave Nash]

This took over hopefully baseball, everything out by next week.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, get these guys out of our way with their scandals. I like talking football and having that be a thing. Even though I'm sure we're going to sit back and go, The Colts are 6 and 1. How did this happen?

[Dale]

I already put my, just before I already put my bet in on Toronto winning the series.

[John Holmberg]

You like that?

[Dale]

Well, because again, it's got great odds. I got plus 225 which is doubling my money on a team that's, that's been playing good, playing hard. And they, they're not taking any days off. The Dodgers in La La land, they've had a week off. I, I, I think they might have a problem. Dodgers starting up the engine again.

[John Holmberg]

Dodgers pitching is not going to do to Toronto what it did to Milwaukee. And although they did it to Philly, but they, I mean they were, their ERA was like one Milwaukee's a, a, you know, carousel team. They don't hit a lot of home runs. They got to get guys on base.

[Dale]

Well, generally that's, you could say almost same thing for Toronto.

[John Holmberg]

Toronto with mashers though, and the bottom of their order swings hard.

[Dave Nash]

Good.

[John Holmberg]

So yeah, they get guys out there. I think you can do it. I love Toronto to win this thing, but I think this would be a good series. I think it's actually a really good match.

[Dale]

I got my bed in now. Now I just wonder if Chauncey Billups is going to be associated with Toronto.

[John Holmberg]

Poker game over with a couple of guys. I don't remember who it was, but they've got hats and cigars. They're very nice people and it's fun. Anyway, that is this edition of the sports thing with your host John Holmberg and guest Dale Hell.

[Dave Nash]

Now we're just guess.

[Dale]

Well, you're starting to lose yours.

[John Holmberg]

I don't even care. And non media expert Dave Nash. That's what we'll call you. He's been around radio for a while, but he didn't really pick anything up. That's his introduction and his. And now we leave the show with five minutes with a madman with a bullhorn. Just go. Whatever you're thinking.

[Dale]

Well, everything I had written down was about how I think basketball is potentially fixed. And then Caspitel comes out with the information.

[John Holmberg]

Dude, that was your, your plan for the last five minutes was to talk about this before all this?

[Dave Nash]

No, you liar.

[John Holmberg]

Now he's fixing the show. Come on.

[Dale]

You don't think that was funny?

[John Holmberg]

Well, you know.

[Dave Nash]

No.

[Dale]

Well, I had you looking funny.

[John Holmberg]

Well, no, because.

[Dave Nash]

Really?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, I was like, I was giving you credit. And that's my mistake. That's my mistake. Yes.

[Dale]

Get back to reality.

[John Holmberg]

So you got nothing for us today?

[Dale]

Well, I mean, again, I think I touched on it. They came out with this information and isn't there more important things going on in the world? And the FBI is. He said, I think I saw a picture of him with a cast. A thousand FBI agents said, and these are just some of the people. Hey, can we work on some things that are actually affecting all of our lives? Because there's not a lot of people.

[Dave Nash]

There's.

[Dale]

Not everyone out there is an NBA fan. Not everyone out there is a gambler. Can we, can we, can we start. Can the FBI start concentrating on things that actually affect our lives? Our financial pocketbook, taxes, what's money laundering that's going on out there.

[John Holmberg]

You're in charge of the FBI. What's the first thing you investigate?

[Dave Nash]

Epstein file.

[John Holmberg]

I know that's coming. Outside of that, what's the first thing you do is the FBI leader.

[Dale]

I, I focus on voting. The fraudulent voting that's been going on. Okay, because listen, again, we just talked about this. The lottery for the NBA and you can do ping pong balls. You're not telling me you put a. You put your ballot in and they can change your bound. They can throw your ballot.

[John Holmberg]

What if you were the FBI investigator, you focused on this and you didn't find anything?

[Dale]

Oh, you're going to find.

[John Holmberg]

That's what I wanted to hear.

[Dale]

Oh, you're going to find something.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

There's no chance that you would come up empty on this.

[Dale]

Statistically, I've got information. Statistically, Joe BIDEN Winning the 2020 election was statistically impossible. Statistically impossible.

[John Holmberg]

Okay, explain.

[Dale]

There was a blip after, remember about 10 o' clock at night, our time, they shut down the computer and all of a sudden Joe Biden got like a 2 million dollar. A 2 million vote increase just out in the middle of Nowhere. Once everything was shut down.

[Dave Nash]

I don't remember that.

[Dale]

Nobody knows about it except you. Well. And the FBI should do that so that.

[John Holmberg]

Would you investigate on Joe Biden's fraudulent win and then get into the vote?

[Dale]

Forget about Joe Biden. Every election is potentially fraudulent.

[John Holmberg]

Okay?

[Dale]

Every election. And that's from both sides. We were talking about this. And you talk about politics again. I'm not a Republican or Democrat. Republican and Democrat is smoke and mirrors. It's a uni party. But they're gonna. There's a saying. You're not elected. You're selected.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, you're.

[Dale]

So there's no. Our elections are made to make us think we actually have freedom and we have a voice. We don't. And I'm copying that right from the comedian who.

[John Holmberg]

Then the brain fog hits. You know what's fun?

[Dale]

Alzheimer's.

[John Holmberg]

I don't know if you've noticed this, but if somewhere to like Sean Rockefeller is blind, so he has to mentally picture this in my mind, as ramped up as you get, your breathing changes, starts coming at you. I'm picturing if I were to close my mind, Dale and I running down the street and you're chasing us with information. You're running out of air. No, no. He's running out of air. He's only got a timeline before we find our way out. He's got to get as much as he can and before we get away from him. You're turning bright red.

[Dave Nash]

Blood pressure.

[John Holmberg]

And I'm not sure you finished a sentence. I'm not sure you got one thing out that you wanted to say.

[Dale]

I asked you before we did this podcast, are we going to swear or not? Because if I swear, everything comes out smoothly. I can't. I can't finish a sentence without throwing an F bomb or this or that.

[John Holmberg]

Dale can't be here. I can't do it. Because if Dale's wife finds out he's hanging out with people who curse like you.

[Dale]

Well, good luck on that one. But I will just say that I. My communication skills. I wish I would actually went to an English class.

[John Holmberg]

Max is both interrupted on that, telling us how he wishes to go to English class.

[Dave Nash]

I know I can't speak.

[Dale]

It's outrageous. People are actually listening to. To me talk and I can't speak.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Succinctly say why you think elections are rigged in one sentence. Try it. Take a breath. One sentence that makes you say. Here's my cogent thought on why I think elections are fixed.

[Dale]

I'm starting to feel like I'm going to have a stroke. My brain is starting your left side.

[John Holmberg]

All right, I'll take you off while he said that.

[Dave Nash]

Real quick. I know we don't have a hard timeline, but I used to get technical fouls in high school basketball. And most of the time, I guess according to my dad, I turn away from the rest towards our home fans and mouth many bad words. And my dad would say, your mom, your little brothers. One game. Will you do me? One game. Raise your hand when you get a foul called on. You throw the ball back to the referee. All those one game. I did a one game. It's the only game I didn't score. Double digits, really, my high school career.

[John Holmberg]

You need to cuss to be good.

[Dave Nash]

And I thought I was gonna have a heart attack. And we got in the car after the game and my dad literally looks over me, says, just be yourself.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, so he noticed that you had pent up.

[Dave Nash]

Oh, yeah.

[John Holmberg]

You put up boundaries.

[Dave Nash]

I felt like I was gonna explode. I looked like Dave, except for my blood pressure wasn't as high.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, no. Dave's blood pressure is immeasurable. Like fire. Fire trucks pull up thinking like there's like. Like blood has something bad going on in there.

[Dale]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Like there's an EMT in the parking lot. When you just say, hey, Dave, finish this sentence and be as articulate as possible about telling us why the globalists are. Oh, boy, we're off and running. I can see him.

[Dale]

Turning red means saying that un intelligent. I can't even think of the words. I. I'm such a bad speaker. I can't even believe there's a microphone anywhere near me at any time of my life. It's brutal.

[John Holmberg]

There it is. Five minutes with a madman. That's it. We're done. My name's John, there's Dale, and there's Dave. We're going to ice him down and get him back in the car and get him home and normalize this whole thing. We'll see you guys next time on the sports thing.