The Sports Thing Podcast w/Holmberg, Hellestrae And Nash - Episode 13 - 10-30-25

Summary

Holmberg’s Morning Sickness—Arizona

The Sports Thing Podcast w/Holmberg, Hellestrae And Nash, Episode 13 (10-30-25)

Episode Overview

In this lively episode, John Holmberg is joined by permanent guest and three-time Dallas Cowboys Super Bowl champion Dale Hellestray, and media entrepreneur Dave Nash. The trio brings their signature irreverence and camaraderie to a freewheeling discussion, blending sports hot topics (NFL, MLB, NBA) with personal anecdotes, Arizona sports talk, and their trademark comic banter.

Themes range from technology and officiating in sports to the culture of modern athletes, sports gambling, and the ethics of charity galas. The last segment features Nash’s “Five Minutes of Insanity”—an unfiltered opinion piece on vaccines and masks.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Opening Banter: Bathroom Routines, Laundry & Masculinity

Timestamps: 03:00–11:00

• Anecdotes & Self-Deprecation:
  • John shares a tale about accidentally wearing a towel in his pants all day due to doing his own laundry, sparking a humorous discussion about men's domestic skills and hygiene habits.
    • “I sit to pee because it’s cleaner and it’s just easier and I enjoy sitting down.” —John, (03:14)
  • They rib each other about the “proper” way to use the bathroom and do laundry, poking fun at old-school gender roles.

Memorable Moments

• On Household Chores:
  • “I do laundry specifically like a man. When I’m out of clothes, it’s time for laundry.” —John, (07:53)
  • “The only way you get better at refereeing is to referee a game with a crowd.” —Dale, (18:58)

2. The Sports Equinox: Officiating, Tech & Integrity in Major Sports

Timestamps: 11:30–26:44

• Sports Equinox: Discussing the rare day when all four major U.S. leagues (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL) play.

• MLB Officiating & Technology:

  • Debate over whether sports were “better” before instant replay.
  • Increasing use of robotic/automated umpires, tech-assisted calls.
    • “Since they’ve indoctrinated us through TV of having the strike zone on the screen… They wanted to introduce robotic umpires.” —John, (13:16)

• Replay’s Effect on the Game:

  • General consensus: instant replay hasn't significantly improved percentage of calls and may hinder officials' confidence.
  • “Do you think sports were better before instant replay?” —Dale, (14:50)
  • “100%.” —John, (14:57)

• NFL Officiating:

  • Frustration over pick-and-choose replay review and inconsistent rules; calls for ‘sky refs’ and tech for all reviewable plays.

• NBA Officiating:

  • Acknowledgement that subjective calls still abound; less confidence in their review process.

3. Rule Changes & Sports ‘What Ifs’

Timestamps: 26:44–33:40

• Experimental Ideas:
  • Nash suggests using the player’s chest (numbers) rather than the ball’s location to determine spot of forward progress—a proposal widely dismissed.
    • “Now, you want a time machine...” —John, (23:36)
  • Better idea: Move first-down marker instead of ball when teams approach the goal line, to ensure penalty yardage remains meaningful.

4. Cheating, Gambling, and the Astros Scandal

Timestamps: 27:47–34:28, 54:15–60:02

• MLB’s Integrity:
  • The Astros’ sign-stealing scandal: Is technology-based cheating a unique challenge?
    • Nash defends sign-stealing unless technology is involved, but the group agrees high-tech cheating crosses a line.
    • “Cheating. Now if you steal a signal... but electronics? Everybody knows that.”—Dale, (29:18)
• Sports Gambling & Media Silence:
  • Surge in gambling and concerns about scandals, especially after recent NBA stories.
  • Nash suggests media suppression and league PR control, but John and Dale argue that new, independent platforms make that difficult:
    • “The fastest way to get mainstream is to be the guy with a story nobody else tells.” —John, (60:38)

5. Athlete Motivation, Culture, and the NBA Suns

Timestamps: 36:32–53:13

• Devin Booker & Leadership:

  • Holmberg claims Booker’s willingness to stick it out for the Suns shows a lack of championship hunger.
    • “He doesn’t care about championships, losing doesn’t bother him.” —John (36:51)
  • Hellestray points to body language: “He is not enjoying playing basketball for $50 million a year.” (39:18)

• NBA Player Mindset:

  • Panel laments ‘load management’ (resting healthy stars) and perceived lack of grit in today’s NBA.
  • Questioning whether massive contracts sap motivation.
    • “You don’t think motivation changes when they have more money than they can ever spend?” —Dave, (42:03)

• Injuries & Softness in Modern Sports:

  • They discuss the increase in injuries in pro sports, linking it to reduced practice, increased muscle mass, softer schedules, and possibly mentality.
    • “If you don’t go full, you’re going to get hurt. That’s been known since Little League.”—John, (49:54)
    • “There is such a thing as you have to build calluses… If you don’t hit, the first time you get hit…” —Dale, (49:24)

6. Sports Charities & Celebrity Gala Culture

Timestamps: 61:41–69:14

• Cynicism About Athlete Participation:
  • John recounts attending local and national charity galas, noting the absence of athlete participation beyond the figurehead.
    • “Not one NBA player bid on one thing for their own NBA hall of fame.” —John, (63:19)
  • Dale explains that athlete attendance is often reciprocal, and that some sports figures develop bad reputations that limit support.

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Notable Quotes

• “I sit to pee because it’s cleaner and it’s just easier and I enjoy sitting down.” —John, (03:14)
• “The only way you get better at refereeing is to referee a game with a crowd.” —Dale, (18:58)
• “Since they’ve indoctrinated us through TV of having the strike zone on the screen… They wanted to introduce robotic umpires.” —John, (13:16)
• “He is not enjoying playing basketball for $50 million a year.” —Dale, (39:18)
• “You don’t think motivation changes when they have more money than they can ever spend?” —Dave, (42:03)
• “If you don’t go full, you’re going to get hurt. That’s been known since Little League.” —John, (49:54)
• “The fastest way to get mainstream is to be the guy with a story nobody else tells.” —John, (60:38)

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Five Minutes of Nash’s “Insanity”: Vaccines, Masks, and Conspiracies

Timestamps: 71:32–78:56

• Nash’s Riff on Public Health & COVID:
  • Recounts witnessing a medical emergency on a flight, then veers into anti–COVID vaccine and anti-mask commentary.
  • Asserts that vaccines are responsible for sudden deaths among young people, referencing SIDS and “turbo cancer.”
    • “The amount of people that have died because of these vaccines... Up 40% from before COVID... that’s like an apocalypse of excess deaths for people at a younger age.” —Dave, (73:46)
  • Calls mask-wearers “mentally ill” and claims mask-wearing caused health problems.
    • “Masks, Darwin, it’s unbelievable. You’re mentally ill. If you wear a mask, there’s no benefit… 0.0. It’s a John Belushi grade average.” —Dave, (75:38)
  • Other hosts push back or attempt to redirect, but don’t fully debate the claims.
  • Segment closes with banter about sun exposure, immunity, and the show's sprawling, unscripted nature.

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Conclusion & Tone

• The tone is irreverent, fast-moving, and frequently veers from sports into personal confessions, local Arizona flavor, and cultural commentary.
• Strong camaraderie and willingness to riff off each other's remarks defines the show, making for a show that’s as much about the hosts as about sports headlines.
• The episode is especially valuable as a slice-of-life piece on sports talk radio culture, covering evolving sports technology, athlete mindsets, and the business side of sports—all while keeping the banter rolling.

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Timestamps:

• [03:00] Bathroom/Laundry Banter
• [11:36] Sports Equinox, Tech & Instant Replay
• [26:44] Rule Innovations & NFL Penalties
• [27:47] Astros Cheating & Technology
• [36:32] Devin Booker, Suns & NBA Player Mentality
• [49:00] Injuries in Sports
• [61:41] Athlete Participation in Charities
• [71:32] Nash’s Five Minutes: Vaccines & Masks

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For fans of unfiltered sports conversation, comic storytelling, and candid debates about where professional sports—and society—are headed, this episode is packed with moments worth revisiting and quoting.

Transcript

[Brett Vesely]

Hey, it's Brett Vesely and I'm here with Byron from MMP Guns. Look, Byron, I have a friend wanting to sell some guns he inherited. What's the best way for him to do that?

[John Holmberg]

Brett, the last thing you want to.

[Dave Nash]

Do is sell the gun to someone.

[John Holmberg]

Who can't legally own one.

[Dave Nash]

Tell him not to put himself at.

[John Holmberg]

Risk and come into MMP Guns where he'll get a fair offer and he.

[Dave Nash]

Can rest easy knowing it's not getting.

[Dale Hellestray]

Into the wrong hands.

[Brett Vesely]

Okay, but what if he lives out of state?

[John Holmberg]

Easy. Legalgunbuyer.com and he can do it all online.

[Dave Nash]

It's really that simple.

[Dale Hellestray]

There you have it.

[Brett Vesely]

MMP Guns or legalgunbuyer.com the safe and legal way to sell your firearms.

[John Holmberg]

It's John Hulberg here from morning sickness and it's time to talk about TVs Doug Hopkins of my home group and doughopkins.com I tell you about the house down the street from me that has had a for sale sign in the yard for three months now. In fact, it's the fourth different sign. They've got a new realtor all the time. I do know this, though. They wouldn't be dealing with all this stress if they'd have just called TVs Doug Hopkins because he's more than a guy buying your house. He makes an offer for your house, cash. As is, you don't have to do anything. The deal is over. So all you got to do is start the process online at Doug hopkins.com or sing Hopkins 1-800-channel now. John Holmberg here for the amazing people at the Core Institute. A very close friend of mine had his knee surgery at the core. He's not going to be back on the court immediately, but in a few months time he will be. He's got some rehab in front of him and that's all you need to worry about. Get to work and get feeling better. Get rid of the pain you've been living with the Core Institute celebrating 20 years because they've been changing people's lives for 20 years and you don't last that long unless you're great. Stop living with your pain and say yes to the things you love to do. Again. Go to the core institute.com.

[Dave Nash]

First episode, anyone?

[John Holmberg]

Actually, the first one is a eulogy. All right, here we go, everybody. I just turned into Chris Collinsworth for a second. I don't know what just happened. Hey, guys.

[Dave Nash]

How you doing?

[John Holmberg]

It's pretty good. I do those for a living, Dave.

[Dave Nash]

Well, let's Just say that one was pretty good. I'm not saying all. I indicated one that I like.

[John Holmberg]

All right, Stadler and Waldorf, like, I need your input. It is time now once again, for the incredibly successful John Holmberg to introduce this podcast called the Sports Thing. I again am John Holmberg, host the wildly successful radio Show Holmberg's Morning Sickness 98 KUPD, Phoenix, Arizona. With me, as always, is the permanent guest, Dale Hellestray, three time world champion with the Dallas Cowboys and co host of the main event with Steve McColl. Steve McColl.

[Dale Hellestray]

How do you say McCollum?

[John Holmberg]

McCollum. I thought you said McCollum.

[Dale Hellestray]

No, McCollum.

[John Holmberg]

Okay, Steve McCollum. And then entrepreneur and local insane person, Dave Nash, X Radio Media. What's wrong with you?

[Dave Nash]

I'm writing it down on your. On your forehead. Next.

[Dale Hellestray]

You can't see his nose.

[John Holmberg]

That's true. Well, who can see their own forehead? I'd like to see that freak. Anyway, it is time now for the big sports cast that we do here each and every week. Welcome aboard. And I gotta start it by saying you guys gave me some grief a couple weeks ago as we started the podcast when I openly and very kind of vulnerably admitted that I sit to pee. And I was. I was razzed by a generation of people that just don't understand cleanliness. And that's basically what I read.

[Dale Hellestray]

No, it's a generation of people who are confused.

[John Holmberg]

Well, that's what I'm saying. I am not. And I feel very straightforward with how I'm thinking. You guys are confused by it because you're like, wow, if I ever did that, I think that means I have to tell my wife something. And then you don't. So I do. I sit to pee because it's cleaner and it's just easier and I enjoy sitting down. I have no problem with that.

[Dale Hellestray]

I have to tell you, I've been married 37 years. Yeah, I've been. I won one battle. I have a wife, two daughters, and a girl dog. I think I've won one battle. And that's wherever the seat is used last, that's where it stays.

[John Holmberg]

I don't have a problem with the seat flipping thing. That's never why this works.

[Dave Nash]

That didn't work for me.

[Dale Hellestray]

It didn't.

[Dave Nash]

I. I changed on that. I was exactly with you. Yeah, I changed on that.

[John Holmberg]

On the seat flipping. Yeah. Why?

[Dave Nash]

Left it up. Woke up in the middle of the night.

[Dale Hellestray]

Oh, you.

[John Holmberg]

Had to go and you sat to pee?

[Dave Nash]

Yep. No.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, here we go, oh, Mr. Question the World.

[Dave Nash]

No, I had to dump and. And no toilet seat.

[Dale Hellestray]

You did not end up gas in the water.

[Dave Nash]

Nope. Because of my fantastic reflexes.

[John Holmberg]

You realize there's less.

[Dave Nash]

I. I did a, like a kung fu karate chop to get my balance, and I took off the whole back of the toilet.

[Dale Hellestray]

Oh, do you sit.

[John Holmberg]

Reverse cowgirl.

[Dale Hellestray]

You sit towards.

[Dave Nash]

How did you reach back?

[John Holmberg]

Oh, I see. You gave an elbow back to like.

[Dave Nash]

I'm like, I'm doing the Fred.

[John Holmberg]

Red Fox thing. Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

You know, his arms are flailing.

[John Holmberg]

Okay.

[Dave Nash]

Arms flail back, hit the top of the toilet. Cracked it right off.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, I've, I've. Yeah, I've got no issue with the toilet seats either way. But this morning was different. So I went to. I had a late night last night, Son's game, did my stuff afterwards. And then I got up this morning, had a pile of laundry that hasn't been folded. So I grabbed a pair of jeans, I put them on, shirt, go to work.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And then a couple hours later, you got to go to the bathroom. So I went to go pee and I sit to pee. So I went into my office where I peed. I got another question later about your situation in the middle. You're reverse cowgirl girl. But. And I said to Pete, and all morning my pants have been like, they're newer. So I'm like, these, I'm not so sure are that comfortable. Something's wrong with these pants. And so when I sat to pee, I looked into the pant leg and saw a towel in my pants all morning.

[Dave Nash]

He said, you actually have a towel in your. What, do you carry this around as a.

[John Holmberg]

No, it's just, you know, what do.

[Dave Nash]

You carry it around?

[John Holmberg]

Sockle. I kept it in there for the show. But to literally sit and go, is that a towel that's been up against my leg? And in the. I've been thinking it's the pants that were.

[Dale Hellestray]

See, I'm thinking that you use those daily to kind of act. No, to put it in the middle and act like you well endowed and. No, I went and wrapped it over.

[Dave Nash]

I forgot about it.

[John Holmberg]

It was in the pocket. It was. No, because, you know, you put laundry on something. Like a sock in the leg or something like that. Yeah, I've had that. Or a dryer sheet. This time it was a full hand towel.

[Dave Nash]

You don't have any, like, sensitivity in your crotch. You didn't feel.

[John Holmberg]

It wasn't on my crotch. It was up.

[Dave Nash]

It was.

[John Holmberg]

This thing couldn't have been more Perfectly aligned to my leg and was like, this is weird. Like, this side feels funny. But it wasn't bad. And I could actually feel there was nothing to feel until I looked at the pee.

[Dave Nash]

Can't feel anything in your crotch. I don't know what your story is.

[Dale Hellestray]

I think we're missing the big.

[John Holmberg]

I'm putting it back, by the way.

[Dale Hellestray]

I think we're missing the main point.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellestray]

Does Mrs. Holmberg not do the laundry?

[John Holmberg]

I do my own laundry because I prefer it. We have had bad.

[Dale Hellestray]

As you sit to pee.

[John Holmberg]

Yes, we have bad. All you're saying, it's woman's word. Okay. I'm not going to argue with that. I do find that to be how my brain really wants it to be. But there's two battles that I fight in laundry, and it's not worth fighting. I do laundry specifically like a man. When I'm out of clothes, it's time for laundry. Right? So the pile gets bigger. Then I shove everything in at once, and then I pull it out and dry everything. If it's the room to put in there, I'll put in. I don't like cold water. I don't care about whites and mixes or whatever. So my laundry gets done lickety split when she's doing it. Didn't do whites. So I don't have any socks or like this going on. It's all dependent on how she feels about what she's going to be putting in there. And she puts, like, three things in the washer at once. It's so frustrating. So I don't have any. Like, all my T shirts are getting washed. Like, it's almost like 1800. Might as well be out in a rock. And so I'm just like, you know what? I'm taking over the laundry duties. That's it. She was going to school for a little while, and I said, this is even better. So now it'll make it look like I'm actually helping out around the house. But really, it's something I want to do. I like.

[Dale Hellestray]

I love how John can spin just about.

[John Holmberg]

I like doing my own laundry.

[Dave Nash]

No, that's what his superpower is.

[Dick Toledo]

He's a liar.

[Dave Nash]

So anyway, I do my own laundry, too. And the reason is.

[John Holmberg]

Hold on a second. I didn't throw that bomb at me and then turn this. And you're doing the same thing. You should have defended me.

[Dave Nash]

I'm gonna give you my. The reason. And it's terrible on my side. Dale knows when I start having kids.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

My wife worked. He made the Money.

[Dale Hellestray]

Oh.

[Dave Nash]

She raised the kids. She did everything.

[Dale Hellestray]

He golfed. Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

And I just thought. And, like, she's looking at me with laundry, and I go, no, I got mine. No, worse.

[John Holmberg]

So you don't do. Beyond that. What's weird about that is if you ever said, I'll do the laundry for everybody. No, you ain't touching their stuff.

[Dave Nash]

And I don't blame her, because I'd ruin it.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

I want to see what's.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellestray]

So it's.

[Dave Nash]

Whatever.

[John Holmberg]

It's fine. Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

I do mine. I. I figured I got to do something in this relationship.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

She's gonna wake up one day and go, get the hell out.

[John Holmberg]

She's gonna do that anyway. You could. You could build her a new house in a day, and she'd still be like, I gotta get out of here.

[Dave Nash]

No arguments.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

But anyway, just thought I'd share that with you that I'm packing a towel in my pants, unintentionally. And. Oh, I don't wear underwear. So that's a big part of why that, you know, was.

[Dave Nash]

I just threw up my mouth.

[John Holmberg]

I don't want to know. It's an unfurnished basement.

[Dave Nash]

I don't want to know.

[John Holmberg]

I like an unfurnished basement. A lot more room for activities.

[Dale Hellestray]

Well, boy, people are turning.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, we'll get to it in a second. Here's the other thing. You take dumps in the middle of night and go back to bed with your wife, get in the shower and clean yourself. For God's sakes.

[Dave Nash]

That's.

[Dale Hellestray]

What.

[Dave Nash]

Toilet paper.

[John Holmberg]

No, no, no, no.

[Dave Nash]

I know it doesn't do the exact job, but I'm taking a shower in the morning.

[John Holmberg]

If I cover you in feces, are you going to wipe it off with a dry paper towel?

[Dave Nash]

I. I don't. You go to the bathroom. But I'm not covered in feces.

[John Holmberg]

You are, or we wouldn't have to wipe. Well, listen, thanks, Dave.

[Dave Nash]

I'm not gonna argue, all right? This guy sits a P. I'm gonna argue this.

[John Holmberg]

No.

[Dale Hellestray]

No. Well, why don't you get a bidet?

[John Holmberg]

I'm getting one. I actually will, but.

[Dave Nash]

How long's this been.

[John Holmberg]

No, I know. It's. I got it. I've picked the right one. I found. I found my superpowered. It's a super Japanese toilet. It's amazing. I have to switch electrical in the bathroom, and I've got some work to do, but it's going to be epic. It's going to be outstanding. And I'll still get in the shower after Each movement to soap and water myself because I'm a clean human.

[Dave Nash]

What do you do here?

[John Holmberg]

I don't poop. What?

[Dave Nash]

What? If you have to.

[John Holmberg]

If I have to? If I have to. I'm sick.

[Dave Nash]

I, I, I don't understand that. And people listen. When I gotta go, I gotta go.

[John Holmberg]

I don't know what's gonna happen because. Because you're willing to walk around with rust bot all day, I clinch up because I was given the gift by Darwin, and I clinch everything up.

[Dave Nash]

You've never clinched up to the point where you go, I can't clinch up anymore.

[John Holmberg]

Then I'm sick. It's time to go home.

[Dave Nash]

Hey, I can't wait to listen to one of his shows.

[John Holmberg]

I'm leaving. I've done it. What? Yeah. That means I've got a disease that day or I'm sick if I can't control my sphincter.

[Dave Nash]

Can we start the show?

[John Holmberg]

The show is beginning now.

[Dave Nash]

Can we start this show? Hey, Axe. This whole show, if anyone, I tell you what, anyone I know, if I say, if you're listening to this show, go to, like, the 10 minute.

[John Holmberg]

This is a good one. This is a good one.

[Dale Hellestray]

We're off, and.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, that's all the time we've got for this. Thanks.

[Dale Hellestray]

Well, you said we need to be more upbeat and positive.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah, I. There's no upbeat yet. This is not upbeat about this.

[John Holmberg]

I have a towel in my pants.

[Dave Nash]

I wear underwear.

[John Holmberg]

Highbrow hilarity.

[Dale Hellestray]

You almost fell the toilet.

[John Holmberg]

You face the. You face the tank when you go to the bathroom. That's what I got.

[Dave Nash]

What?

[John Holmberg]

Anyway, let's talk sports here on this, my sports podcast. You heard me. And it is.

[Dale Hellestray]

It is.

[John Holmberg]

You know, we had the sports equinox this week. It's such a cool thing. And it's the only time there are not two a year. There are not multiple days. Most of the time where you get all four sports. Major sports, NBA, NFL, Major league Baseball, and hockey on the same night. And, man, were we blessed with some good stuff, too, because they.

[Dale Hellestray]

The.

[John Holmberg]

The World Series basically drew everybody's eye away from football. The Kansas City Chiefs played the Washington Commanders on Monday. I don't know that a lot of people really were all over that the same way they would have been had the World Series not been going on. That World Series has been outstanding. And Shohei Ohtani, as we've talked about on this podcast, is a gift from the heavens as far as baseball goes.

[Dave Nash]

Again, I'm trying to stay positive. It's hard to for the fact that, you know, with the, and I know we're going to get into it about the NBA and all the fixing and blah, blah. And I still, and we talked about how NFL I look at it, I go. But I realized watching the World Series, it's really hard to fix baseball in that way in regards to officials. I mean, you can get, have a, you can have a plate umpire be calling the wrong. But now with instant replay.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

You're not going to get those plays out on the bases at first or at home or whatever it may be. And, and, and as an ex player, even if you get a bad call, it's on the corner and he calls it a strike and you think it's a ball. You get three of those. Yeah, you get three. And, and, and you can hit a ball off the plate. You can hit a ball that's not a strike. So it's really hard to affect play in regards to officials making bad calls like they do in every other sport.

[John Holmberg]

Since they've indoctrinated us through TV of having the strike zone on the screen with. We now get to see what is and what is not a strike, which was not because they wanted to get it right. It's because they wanted to introduce robotic umpires to us eventually.

[Dave Nash]

And I'm for that.

[John Holmberg]

Of course you are now we all are because we've seen how many. That one guy on Monday night made 14 bad calls and missed. He was like an 86%. And that's. Those guys do a great job.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Umpires for the most. They don't get the little box we get on tv. They're doing this naked eye and they are pretty damn remarkable. I mean they're 91. 92% for the league is a little low, but that's where they run. 94 is pretty, pretty good. That one dude was 86 in the world Series. And that's not, that's not going to cut it. But you're right, it's harder to fix because now the, the audience gets to see. I was at a fall league baseball game. They have a mechanism now where they can take a check swing and get an overhead computer read of it. And they show where this particular batter would break the plane. And the umpire doesn't have to call those anymore. The computer does it. And it's fast and it's pretty cool. I don't know how it works, but it's pretty cool. And then of course they have the minors and now in the fall league, the batter can actually turn to the Ump and say I challenged that last call. Which really weird because, you know, as a baseball player questioning a call was automatic outs. And now you can turn and actually say, not only do I question it, you have to get on a microphone in front of the crowd and go, the batter has questioned my call. And then they show it on the big screen whether or not it went into the box and it's red. It's a strike.

[Dale Hellestray]

So I think this brings up a great talking point. The fact that. Do you think sports were better before instant replay?

[John Holmberg]

100%.

[Dale Hellestray]

Because I do.

[John Holmberg]

I do too.

[Dale Hellestray]

Now, the thing that it will never go backwards. So when you have super slow motion, you can tell whether the toes tap before it goes out of bounds or that ball was an inch of off the plate and they do it in slow motion. And well, you can't unsee that. But there didn't used to be those capabilities. And I think at the end of the day, you live with the call 99% of the time. And you got your calls throughout the season. At the end of the day, you broke even most of the time.

[John Holmberg]

It wasn't that different without it. Like, you weren't. You weren't seeing percentage drops or rises with instant replay that were that different. In fact, what it did to the refs was make them question themselves so they make a call on purpose.

[Dave Nash]

This all. This all your fault. Your Pittsburgh Steeler fault.

[John Holmberg]

How so?

[Dave Nash]

Didn't this all kind of originate with. Who was the Houston Oiler receiver who made the catch?

[John Holmberg]

Oh, Mike Renfro.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah, Renfro in the end zone. Touchdown. They.

[Dale Hellestray]

And.

[Dave Nash]

And that became the real push for instant replay.

[John Holmberg]

That was back in the late 70s. That's when they started chatting about it. They didn't have the technology to do what they do now.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Which is insane. But again, my problem is the NFL wants to do this, and it is as fast as you can do it. And Major League baseball is doing immediately. I don't know if you guys ever saw that real sports where they took Eric Burns, the former Diamondbacks, he played for everybody but Dirty Burns, Remember him?

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And he. And he put an umpires outfit on and called a minor league baseball game with an earpiece in his ear and a guy in a computer in a booth telling him if it was a strike or a ball. And they had every single baseball player stance in the game in the computer so they could manipulate the strike zone to what was exactly. Not a soul knew. The players didn't know, the coaches didn't know. Nobody knew. That that was what was going on. They just knew Eric Burns was going to be an umpire. They were saying he's going to school and whatever. And he called a perfect like game. The only thing he had to do without help was calls at the plate. That's it. Foul balls, stuff like that.

[Dave Nash]

Hey, believe me, as an ex baseball player, I thought I could make better calls in the up anyway.

[Dale Hellestray]

Absolutely.

[Dave Nash]

We all do. All baseball players feel we're better than up.

[John Holmberg]

But when baseball can do it that fast, football's thing of. We just want to get it right. I'm using quoty fingers is garbage because they pick and choose which plays count and which plays don't. For instance, again, I'll go back to it. Steelers, Packers. You were there, Dale. We watched that. The, the offside, that was just clearly an offside play and that they, you know, they knew they missed it or they wouldn't have huddled up in the first place. And I don't know what those refs talk about other than they're going to make fools of us. You know, they see they can't watch a replay without going to that tent, right. So they sit and say to themselves, well, what do we do? And when we can't, against the rules. This is not a review that's not reviewable. And that doesn't make any sense to me. It's so fast.

[Dale Hellestray]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And I've always been a proponent of they cannot use slow motion in the replay booth. They have to see it. They get.

[Dale Hellestray]

And that's fair because whenever you slow things up, I will tell you this. I do indoor football league. Yes. And there you can challenge anything. Now, I thought that would be mayhem. I thought the game would be in disarray and it'd be stop star stop stars. But you only get three. Yeah, but you can challenge an offsides. You can challenge just about anything on the field while play is going on. And I don't know why the NFL is going to go, well, no, it's going to be this and this, but not that and not that and then.

[John Holmberg]

And then, and then to say after, oh, we just want to get everything right. No, you don't. If you do, you can do this. You can do each play. You can have a ref in the sky who flags and, you know, a little buzzer goes off on the, on the umpire or something and says, hey, you missed a call here in real, in real time.

[Dale Hellestray]

In almost real time.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, that guy can see it on a screen, what they're watching. And I, I, man, that's A tough gig. I don't know how full time referees change.

[Dale Hellestray]

Let me tell you something about that because I've heard that now for what, a decade?

[John Holmberg]

Forever.

[Dale Hellestray]

Hey, they need to be full time. The only way you get better at refereeing is to referee a game with a crowd. I can sit here on film.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellestray]

And be a heck of a lot more accurate than I am while there's people flying around and somebody flashes in front of my face. And I don't care if you're full time. You're not going to get that. You're going to be studying film. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

It drives me nuts because there's plenty of plays that can't. I like that. Baseball has. I did. NBA cannot get any of it right. Their reviews are awful because all their calls are gray. Charging and blocking.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

I mean, that is. That is a ridiculous thing. So like you're saying the gambling element, it is toughest to probably get baseball because the technology.

[Dave Nash]

Although watching the World Series, I think it was maybe the last game or one of them. I forgot where it was. The double play at first were. Muncie caught a line drive and threw it to first to try to double up the runner. And. And they called him out. And then, you know, they're. They're. You saw the replay. One replay, you go, oh, he's safe. He's safe.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

It took two minutes. And on TV they showed it 20 times.

[John Holmberg]

And that's the thing. They.

[Dave Nash]

What's taking so long? Who's in charge of this?

[John Holmberg]

Have you ever seen the screen? So I got. I was lucky enough to go to a Diamondbacks game and see the replay screen in the booth. They use to.

[Dave Nash]

What they see, what is that, like food and everything on it you can't really see.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, it's a mess.

[Dale Hellestray]

There's.

[Dave Nash]

It's like someone spilled a shake on it.

[John Holmberg]

25 squares on this thing and each thing is showing different angles at the stadium and stuff. And so that's what New York sees when they go, okay, we're going to call it back to the guys in the. And thing. And they. They send that feed to New York of what they're filming there. And I got to watch a review. And it is painstaking. Even when it's kind of. It's just. You're watching six or seven things. You just got to make sure that you didn't see anything you didn't see or did see something you did see there. It's weird. And it could just be like you said, there's the angle that's the one they had the one the other night where they're sliding in. The second was hand. Either hit the foot of the second baseman sliding in. It might have been. That might have. That actually might have been the same play at first where they thought he touched the base, but maybe he was touching the guy's foot and they're like, was the foot part of the base? If it's touching the base and that's it. Is he blocking? If he didn't have the ball, it's interference. And it's like, okay, let's get back to a dude just saying out. The problem was when Frank Joyce took away that no hitter in Detroit 12 years ago. Is that his name?

[Dave Nash]

Jim Joyce.

[John Holmberg]

Jim Joyce. You're right. Jim Joyce. Jim Joyce. I had a friend, high school, named Frank Joyce. Jim Joyce. And yeah, when he missed that no hitter call so badly that the whole league said, we can't even risk this. Like, we have got to change this to. There's replay.

[Dale Hellestray]

But there are some, like football, they have the technology. But one of the worst things to me is when I see third down play and it's a short pass or whatever, and the guy's marked.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellestray]

Where he's marked. And you see the guys coming in from the sideline and if you watch them. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

They weave until they get to the same weave.

[Dale Hellestray]

And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, when you could put that thing in the ball, which they've done. Chip in the chip. And it crosses the first. Downwards. First down.

[Dave Nash]

I tell you what, I had a. I had a whole idea for this a while ago. Okay, tell me if this made more sense. Instead of where the ball was or where you wave the ball. Wherever your numbers are, wherever your.

[John Holmberg]

Your chest.

[Dave Nash]

Your chest is, that's where you end up. Forget about the ball.

[Dale Hellestray]

Well, the ball's the most important thing about the game.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah, but if you reach over the.

[John Holmberg]

Goal line, half your body over.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah, if you. Wherever. I'm just saying this would have been better.

[Dale Hellestray]

I don't like hating.

[Dave Nash]

You don't like it.

[Dale Hellestray]

I know.

[John Holmberg]

I don't like it.

[Dale Hellestray]

No. Bad idea.

[John Holmberg]

If this was a brainstorming session, even people would be like, no, no more ideas from Nash. Not all good ideas are good ideas. Yeah, that one stinks.

[Dave Nash]

Great idea.

[John Holmberg]

No, it stinks. It just.

[Dave Nash]

You don't have to mess around.

[Dale Hellestray]

It's still judgment.

[John Holmberg]

I mean, how many great moments?

[Brett Vesely]

How much?

[Dale Hellestray]

Top of the numbers. The top of the numbers.

[John Holmberg]

It's the same thing. Now we're arguing what those Numbers were.

[Dave Nash]

Well, hey, there's only simple rules. The numbers, either top, bottom, front, back, whatever.

[Dale Hellestray]

I'm taller than John. That means it could take more me to get across the goal line than John. And how about.

[John Holmberg]

That's not fair with AI, they'll chip the goal line, they'll chip the football. And eventually it's just going to. Eventually there's going to be lights that go off when the ball crosses.

[Dave Nash]

I'm for chips, but before there were chips, that would have been the.

[John Holmberg]

Now, you want a time machine and.

[Dave Nash]

All sorts of yahoos, like, waving the ball out there as they're running out of bounds.

[John Holmberg]

That.

[Dave Nash]

That's not where you are. That's garbage.

[John Holmberg]

Where you are. Your hands.

[Dave Nash]

How do you specify where that is waving it at? Because your chest is your chest.

[Dale Hellestray]

The further forward that it goes before you go out of bounds, that's where you're at.

[John Holmberg]

You're pretending that they're throwing it forward. Their arms are part of their bodies.

[Dave Nash]

They're waving it around like they're holding it. They're baton majors in a. In a band.

[John Holmberg]

My hand, I don't know if you've heard the song. The wrist bones connected to the. It's all part of me. So if I reach forward, my body is making the ball go ahead. Now, if I did this with my jersey, and we would never have these.

[Dave Nash]

These quarterbacks doing the quarterback sneak, throwing the ball up. That's over the line.

[Dale Hellestray]

Okay. So in other words, I'm thinking what we're learning on this podcast of time goes by that Dave only gives his opinion in the last five minutes. He can't come up. All right. Yeah. New rule, New rule.

[John Holmberg]

No new ideas from Dave till the last. If you. If you. If you want to come up with something in your last five minutes, like. All right, I've listened to the podcast and here are my thoughts on new ideas. Yeah, please, by all means, interject during the podcast, but all new ideas must be expressed in your crazy man 5.

[Dale Hellestray]

And we need to make sure that they're up and up.

[John Holmberg]

Write them down and then show them to us before we start segment so we know not to.

[Dave Nash]

I'm going to run this by people that aren't insane, and we'll see how.

[John Holmberg]

No, no, no. You know what? My one thing about wanting to change the game is I can't wait to. This is really good. When you get a penalty and you're backed up to the end zone, let's say you get the ball in the two. I think we may have talked about this and instead of saying, oh, there's a holding call. Half distance back up half a yard.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

You actually are now 1st and 20. They moved the first down markers further away.

[Dale Hellestray]

Okay. Because I like. Because I've always looked at it, I want, I've always looked at it from the other end to where you're on the one yard line going in. You jump off sides. Yeah. You're going back yards back. Yeah, yeah. They jump offsides. It's six inches.

[John Holmberg]

Exactly that.

[Dale Hellestray]

And I never thought that was fair.

[John Holmberg]

It's not.

[Dale Hellestray]

The penalty should be exactly the same for both. Okay. So offense jumps while the defense, if they would have jumped, they'd have gotten six inches.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellestray]

Offense gets six inches.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Whatever the half the distance team is. But and defense, it changes a little bit with that because the defense is. You're just going to inch closer. So half the distance matters when you're on the one. If they jump, you get the half the distance. And if you do it a few times, they can actually award a touchdown without you getting in. But when you're on offense and you're on the one and you screw up, unless it's a hold in the end zone, they just, you know, they'll add at 10. But yeah, you're right. The other side only gets that little tiny bit. You're like, well, we got to add that back now.

[Dale Hellestray]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

The offense makes a mistake. They shouldn't.

[Dale Hellestray]

You know, I do like the coming out, moving the first down marker.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. Move the first down marker off of those plays and it makes a ton more sense than this.

[Dale Hellestray]

Ah, much better idea than Dave.

[John Holmberg]

Exactly.

[Dale Hellestray]

There you go.

[Dave Nash]

I want to hate your idea, but I can't.

[Dale Hellestray]

So good.

[John Holmberg]

That's why good ideas tend to be liked by the mass.

[Dave Nash]

I can't wait to hate the next thing.

[John Holmberg]

No, no, no, there won't be any of that.

[Dick Toledo]

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[John Holmberg]

It's John Holmer here from the morning sickness and it's time to talk about TVs Doug Hopkins of my home group and Doug Hopkins.com Sometimes Doug Hopkins can be a savior for people in bad situations. Doug's there to help and the process will go fast. Cash offer for your home as is, no matter the circumstances. Circumstances and a straight offer. The deal's done. Doug doesn't change that offer or cancel because of contingencies or any other reason and he'll back it up with a five thousand dollar guarantee. You can start the process online at doughopkins.com or grab that phone and sing along. Yeah. So you get into, you get into what's going on in the World Series and Dave makes a great point that the, that the gambling aspect of baseball seems to kind of make you relax and go, it's going to be awfully hard to fix this. Then let's go back five years to the Houston Astros who have found a way. Everybody's trying to find a way.

[Dave Nash]

I never thought that was a problem.

[John Holmberg]

I still don't.

[Dave Nash]

I still don't. Listen, here's why it's against the rules. What rule in baseball did it say.

[John Holmberg]

You can't use electronic devices?

[Dave Nash]

The commissioner said they recommended against using it. It's not written in the rules.

[John Holmberg]

Well, you didn't think you'd have to.

[Dave Nash]

Well, okay, so it's not written in.

[John Holmberg]

The rules, but why in the world did they not just rip their shirts off and go, this is how I knew that pitch was coming. Well, whatever, because it's an unfair advantage, you know.

[Dale Hellestray]

Hey, hey. You know what I love right there? Yeah, he sounded like a 16 year old teenager. Well, whatever, whatever. Whatever covers everything. Sorry I'm not a five star chef. What?

[John Holmberg]

So go on, you got five minutes.

[Dale Hellestray]

No, that's bad. The electronics. Everybody knows that. Cheating. Now if you steal a signal from segment. Did you see this, by the way? It's either last night or night.

[Dave Nash]

They have electronics in it now.

[John Holmberg]

Their bodies not to Relay information to player to player.

[Dale Hellestray]

But did you see that happen? The Dodger was on, I think it was. Muncie was on second base. And the pitcher. The pitcher turned around, act like he's going to throw. Yeah. You do it three times, he gets awarded a base. Oh, yeah, he did it three times. To have him go to third base, really? Because he didn't see that. Because they felt something, so they moved him on purpose. I'll give up the base so he doesn't. Yeah, yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And I'm fine with the sportsmanship of a guy on second figuring something out. It's on football, if you're like, oh, I'm the guy in the huddle that, hey, this is the play. This is the, you know, they're coming up a gap or whatever, and you can say it out loud and call their play out. If you happen to have an electronic device, because a guy is on the opposing team sidelines and knows the play that just got called and he double taps. And now your middle linebacker's like, all right, guys, I know the play. And you didn't actually diagnose it. You didn't, you know, read it. You just were told it. That's. That's not.

[Dale Hellestray]

That's because as a coach and a player played a long time. I've coached a long time. It's amazing how many times you hear, watch the sweep. Watch the sweep. And you're not running a sweep. Right. You're not. You might be in a formation where you ran sweep last week, or you're like, yes, please think it's asleep because we're coming counter. Right?

[Dave Nash]

And that's the point. Same thing in baseball. You can change up your signals with an indicator and then they'll be thinking it's the wrong pitch.

[John Holmberg]

But they were. They were doing something even more than that. Because when was it a ral. This. Chapman was on the hill against Jose ALTUVE in the 10th inning of this game. And he gets the buzz and takes the first pitch dead center. 420ft. And because he knew the pitch that was coming again. And the location if.

[Dave Nash]

If the Yankees changed up their indicator. Yeah, because when you. When the catcher's given the signals with his fingers, they don't do now, but you could have. You know, there were also indicators where. If the catcher had his mitt on his knee. Yeah, okay, we're going. Instead of 1, 2, 3, it's 2, 3, 2, 3, 1. Or you have the. You have your arm on your chest or on the ground. It's. It's 3 2, 1 2, 3, 1. So all of a sudden your one fastball turns into two. Being a fastball because of your indicator, you can change up the signals and then they're thinking.

[John Holmberg]

But weren't they doing something else where they recognize the trash cans and the electric and they had somebody in the workout.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

They're looking at the signals and then they're relaying it to the batter.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

But if the defensive team, pitcher and catcher.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Switch up their signals, you're going to get a different view of what the pitch is going to be.

[John Holmberg]

We talked about it here. I think. Remember I told you about Greg Maddox and Eddie Perez and how they used to do that when they weren't sure how where Greg would catch the ball back from. Eddie was the next pitch. If he had his arm extended, he's bringing a curve. If he had it up against his body, he's going with a fastball. If he caught it upside down kind of with his glove, he's coming with a sinker.

[Dave Nash]

There's ways to work.

[John Holmberg]

He's telling the catcher that's exactly right the way he's catching the ball. Yes.

[Dale Hellestray]

And aren't most, aren't most calls done by microphone?

[Dave Nash]

Now they are.

[John Holmberg]

There's no more.

[Dave Nash]

Now they are.

[Dale Hellestray]

So I think the second baseman, when Muncie was on second base, he could evidently see it's tipping.

[John Holmberg]

I mean Blake Snell in the game five was tipping pitches.

[Dave Nash]

Either that or it's, it's indication when the catcher if he moves outside.

[John Holmberg]

But isn't that sort of an unwritten rule? I know it's impossible not to. The batter's not supposed to sneak looks. At least when they used to do hand signals.

[Dave Nash]

That was a big.

[John Holmberg]

You'd get plunked for that.

[Dave Nash]

Allegedly.

[John Holmberg]

Well, you got hit a few times.

[Dave Nash]

I never peaked. I was not that smart.

[John Holmberg]

Well, yeah, you could have though. I, I, I always, I, I, Yeah. What they're done with baseball is just make it very hard to cheat. But people will always find a way. The Astro. Nobody would have ever expected you to had, you know, Morse code system tapped up to your best hitters bodies to let them know location.

[Dale Hellestray]

As you're, as you're in the locker room before the game and they're taping something electronic up to you with a buzzer on you. Aren't you at some point going and beyond that feel right.

[John Holmberg]

They were up to something else as well. Because when Garrett Cole got there and I remember it was Archie Bradley made the point. He goes how he's I Work on spin rate on my pitches all day, Everything I'm doing. How can I get more spin rate on this ball? And he goes. Guy leaves Pittsburgh. He didn't use names. Guy leaves Pittsburgh, ends up in Houston, and his spin rate jumps 9% in like a week. Yeah. What are they doing? Yeah, and they're. They're up something. And he was the one who blew the whistle on the Astros in a big way before they were up some. But everybody's always doing something to get an upper hand. It's just when you get caught, you have to just say, well, it's not against the rules. All right, we got caught. And I would have liked to have seen that with the Astros.

[Dave Nash]

So again, that just goes back to all these leaders in these. In these companies. Baseball.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellestray]

Football.

[Dave Nash]

Be proactive, not reactive. You can't think of these things. You can't. You can't have a brainstorming session and say, which ways are they going to be trying to cheat? And let's. Let's call them out. Let's put that in the worlds right now.

[Dale Hellestray]

Dave, All I go BY Is this. McDonald's had one customer who got coffee, put it in her lap, spilled it on her, sued them because the coffee is too hot. So now they have to put caution. Yeah. Copy is hot. Are you foreseeing somebody being stupid enough for that?

[Dave Nash]

Not stupid enough, but genius enough to figure out a way to gain an advantage.

[John Holmberg]

You know that M&M's peanut. M&M's has a thing that says contents may contain peanuts. That's a real thing. That's how lost we are in that kind of stuff. So that's like.

[Dale Hellestray]

That's like lifting your. But putting your toilet seat down to pee as a guy.

[John Holmberg]

That's that. And sitting down comfortably. Not making a mess.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Not because I got a. I got a lot of action going on when I do that. So I got to be down in it. Let's talk NBA for a little bit. NBA basketball, Especially here locally with Phoenix Suns. Dale and I talked about this on my incredibly successful radio show. Holmberg's Morning Sickness. 98 KPD. And Dave, I don't know if you heard or were in on it. I think Dale and I have agreed on this for quite a while. Is that there's players on teams that you start to realize they are the franchise. Right. So no question for the Suns, we'll start there. Devin Booker is the franchise. 10th, 11th year. I don't even know something around there came up with a team that was a disaster. And won 20 something games a couple years in a row. Not real good, but he made a name for himself. He cut his teeth and kind of earned the right to be the franchise. Face right team makes that miraculous run. 2021, actually the bubble in Covid when they went 8, 0 and almost they shocked the world. Then 2021, they end up in the finals. They lose to the Bucks next year, make a couple moves, take a big swing to get bigger. Didn't. And then fell off the face of the planet with the most expensive team ever at that moment. Dale and I both said a year earlier he got to trade Devin Booker. This team's not going to get better. And he's the one who gives you the most chance to, you know, get pieces back.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

He signed a deal with this team knowing that they were going to start over again. And so when you look at a player like that and you think he doesn't care about championships, losing doesn't bother him. He's willing to go through this again. How many rebuilds would any professional athlete go through on purpose?

[Dale Hellestray]

Right. Say, who has a choice? Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Especially in the NBA where I know you love Phoenix and you want it to work. But by the time this thing starts working, I'm keep in mind they're playing, they're paying Bradley Beal for five more years. They don't have control over a draft pick for four years. They got. This is not a healthy franchise for growth. Unless Matt Ishbia starts paying again and gets him into a bigger financial hole, the canyon gets deeper. So I'm watching this. And last night's game was against Memphis and Devin Booker took a Last second, last four second shot. He shot it way too early from 38 and a half feet out and missed it. And then just kind of, ah, darn it. And they walked off the court. And I'm like, I don't know. And I don't want to question this in anybody with competitive spirit. I don't know that you can. You cannot question it by seeing somebody that, that stuck around a team that's not going to win just to remain the big fish.

[Dale Hellestray]

All right, you got the.

[Dave Nash]

You get the highest rated radio show in Phoenix.

[John Holmberg]

So true.

[Dave Nash]

What if we send you to New York, smaller, smaller station and see if you can build it?

[John Holmberg]

You want to go if my age now?

[Dale Hellestray]

No. Okay. But 26.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. At 20.

[Dave Nash]

Devin Booker's 20.

[John Holmberg]

Say this, how about this?

[Dale Hellestray]

He came to Lee when he was 17 or 18.

[John Holmberg]

No, he's like 28 or 29. He's up there.

[Dale Hellestray]

Okay, but it's 26 and 28.

[John Holmberg]

But here's the thing. Like, if you're asking, like, okay, you were at a station that wasn't very good. Now you're number one, and it's. And it's going great. And now suddenly they've gotten rid of, you know, any, you know, they're not going to back it financially for a little bit. They ran into some trouble. They got rid of some of the staff. Would I stay if I had an offer? If I had my choice, basically, to go somewhere else? No, I wouldn't. Because I'm like, I'm not going to do this again for other people. I'm going to do, like, where's my chance? Devin Booker is running the risk of blowing a knee out an ankle every night. All of them do.

[Dale Hellestray]

He is 29.

[John Holmberg]

He's 29. So he's running that risk. And he seems to be, like, in no hurry to get to that, that trophy.

[Dale Hellestray]

And let me jump in here real quick. Here's my biggest thing. And you've heard me talk, both of you probably heard me talk about I'm a big body language guy. And whether I coached or whether I played, you could be standing there listening to me talk and you could be giving me the finger without saying or doing anything. And I watched Devin Booker. I watched him last year and I watched him the year before. He's not enjoying playing basketball. And now why is that? Is it because of the losing? I don't think so. Because he's lost before. Is it because he doesn't have a buddy on the team? I don't know. But there's a reason why you see him out there. I don't want to say nonchalantly, but he is not enjoying playing basketball for $50 million a year.

[John Holmberg]

I also think it might be the Kevin Durant influence of when you're this good at something, it's just going to happen. And you don't need to be the. The body language guy, the guy that shows the team you're there.

[Dale Hellestray]

There's always a guy that's a bad guy to follow.

[John Holmberg]

I totally agree. Kevin Durant is not the leader. He's just really good at the game.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

And so there's a different. The Gillespie kid for the Suns is the one that brings the spark. That's always been the case. Vinnie Johnson, microwave back in the 90s. You're like, man, this guy changes games that we're getting out of hand. Sunset Jay Crowder for a while, the Lakers and Spurs and Jesus. Whenever Robert Horry showed up anywhere, the.

[Dale Hellestray]

Rockets, DeNoble in San Antonio, I mean, you go down the list.

[John Holmberg]

And Tim Duncan wasn't a body knowledge guy, but he was a dude who had that on his team. Without it, I don't think you do much winning. And that's what's bugging me about watching Devin Booker and the Suns team. There's more energy on the team now than there's been in a couple of years. He's the. He's the holdover.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

I watch him and it's like watching that team that didn't have any life last year with all those superstars. I'm seeing it again with a bunch of kids and dudes, you know, fighting for their lives to play in a game. It's like, we got to win. We got to win. We're not very good. And Devin Booker's just, I'll get my 27. I'm getting off the floor.

[Dale Hellestray]

Right. He's kind of. It seems like he's almost taken over the Durant Persona.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. You know, and he's. And he's not that good. He's really good.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And you're going to be. But I mean, think about how many teams. And maybe Dale's right because he brought up the fact that his contract's so big now that it's going to be tougher to move them.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

But how many teams that are kind of competitive, Minnesota Timberwolves, the Knicks, that have a couple pieces, they'd send over here to get a guy like that to put them over the top, The Heat. There's a lot of teams out there that would. Would do something and maybe a first.

[Dale Hellestray]

Round draft pick or two. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And try to be nice. It seems like this team that says unhealthy going forward off the court as they are on it, Devin Booker wouldn't want to be part of that unless he just doesn't care. And I could be way off. If he sat in the room, he'd.

[Dave Nash]

Be like, I don't know if he doesn't care. But you don't. If you don't think people change their, their, their motivation doesn't change when they have more money than they could ever spend.

[Dale Hellestray]

Sure.

[John Holmberg]

I mean, that's true in music and anything.

[Dave Nash]

Everything.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah. And guess what? He's got. He's got a nice place up in Pine Canyon. He likes to golf. Guess what? He could come visit in the off season.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

It's not like. Yeah. It's not like he's going to be doing that in the winter. So it's when you're playing basketball, you don't need the place in Pine Canyon, and there's plenty of guys on there. You know, I question Zion Williamson with. With New Orleans, because I think that guy might have more talent than anybody I've ever watched play the game. When he's healthy, he's amazing. He's a shooter, he's a body, he's fast, he can drive. But he literally cannot stay healthy. And even when he's not healthy, he's still playing it, just not in games. That classic moment a couple years ago when he was warming up with the team and dunking and doing all sorts of. I can't play my ankle. Heart.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Well, what are you doing? Where are the trainers to tell you?

[Dale Hellestray]

I'm not dunking pregame. I'm making sure I can play at least a quarter and a half. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. I don't get it. And it bugs me because I think basketball is dripping with what you just said, Dave. Guys with money who are like, I got my money, but.

[Dale Hellestray]

But let's look at a little bigger prospect. You got a Dylan Brooks who plays. He plays. Okay. You got the kid from. From Houston, Jalen Graham, banged up a little bit. Does it. Is it just me that seems you come to Phoenix and all of a sudden it's like, oh, you know what? I'll take two or three games off.

[Dave Nash]

No, I don't think it's that. I think it's league wide, Dale.

[John Holmberg]

Well, you got guys like Jay Crowder that were hard to get off the floor.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yes. Well, that's what made that team so special.

[John Holmberg]

Absolutely.

[Dale Hellestray]

And you could tell they enjoyed playing with each other. They went to each other's lemonade.

[John Holmberg]

Sales chemistry is a huge thing. And you can see it's like body language. You can see when it's like, oof. This team does not have a connection. Last year's sons, was that the Brooklyn Nets with Kevin Durant? That. I don't know about this Rockets team yet. They seem to be pretty energized. They've got a lot of talent on that team that isn't Kevin Durant.

[Dale Hellestray]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

Sengun is ridiculous. And so, you know, Kevin might be the two on that team now because that Alpern.

[Dale Hellestray]

I had to go back and look at his name again.

[John Holmberg]

Alpert and Shen, guys. It's a crazy name, but he. You never know. But you can kind of tell when a team's got that extra spark. The. The Golden State Warriors. I didn't know that Jimmy Butler was going to fit in as well as he did. But you watch them and you're like, they're dangerous every night. They might not be the best team on the floor, but they've got some dangerous stuff going on and they want it. They're hungry, hunger.

[Dale Hellestray]

They've got four guys, 38 years old, so they're not going to have it every night. No. But you get to the playoffs, they're.

[John Holmberg]

Going to fight you.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

And these dudes are competitive. I don't see that in the Sun's team. And it bugs me because you're paying.

[Dale Hellestray]

Good money to go watch. I actually saw something on Twitter last night. It showed a picture of a person in a Lakers game. Might have been the night before. LeBron's not playing, Doncic isn't playing, and one other guy isn't playing. Yeah. And I'm. And this dude, he's like 10 rows up. You know about free throw line, expensive tickets in la. Yeah, I want a refund.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellestray]

You know I want a refund.

[John Holmberg]

You can't tell me when I get to the stadium. Oh, these guys are all scratched.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

Well, I wouldn't have come. I wouldn't have come to this game.

[Dale Hellestray]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

I'd have fleeced somebody else on Ticketmaster for these tickets. I'm not an idiot. But yeah, and yeah, there's a. Yeah, there's an aspect to it that just bugs me because I feel, when I feel competitive, like, look, I never played any pro sports, but it was hard to. I would bust an ankle and just tie my shoe tighter just to get through the pickup game. Like, if I could walk, I could try. And I see a ton of that. Like, you talked about it, like every sport. How are these guys constantly hurt when they're bubble wrapped beyond belief?

[Dale Hellestray]

Also, I can tell you, when you bring that up, I think you both know I love basketball. Basketball is my favorite sport. Yeah, I used to play basketball in the offseason to keep me in shape. Yeah. And I love to play. And so they're three on three tournaments around the Valley. There's even three on three tournaments in California that I went over and played in. And there was one time I went up, came out, came down on the side of a guy's foot. My ankle rolled all the way down. I was 30. I wasn't 63. 30, you know, and I literally just tied my shoe tighter and I continued to play. Yeah, I played a pickup game. Yeah. Not even my sport.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, that's. That was. I actually broke my ankle and didn't know it until I was trying to drive my car home and I couldn't push the clutch because it tightened up. I did the same thing.

[Dave Nash]

Broke my ankle. But I knew it.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, I knew it was bad. I just didn't.

[Dave Nash]

I didn't know it was broken either. You're right.

[John Holmberg]

I went to the hospital. I'm like, I sprained it pretty bad and like you broke it, you know.

[Dave Nash]

I didn't go to a. The hospital for a week.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, no kidding.

[Dave Nash]

And then they had to. It was starting to heal, so they had to rebreak it.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, I've had that with my nose. Yeah, the. The nose rebreak is.

[Dave Nash]

I didn't realize that.

[John Holmberg]

Favorite thing, especially nose my size. Forget it. Takes a.

[Dale Hellestray]

Why don't you take this insurance you get from Hubbard and get a rhino Plastic.

[John Holmberg]

I thought about it.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

I don't know if they cover plastic sur. And here's my thought about that, Dale. Cause this nose is a problem. What if they're calling, what if it's worse? What if the doctor butchers it? And I'm like, could it get worse?

[Dale Hellestray]

I know, I know.

[John Holmberg]

There you go. You're not wrong. He just. He looked at you and did an eyebrow raise. Like pretty damn proud of himself. And I'm agreeing with you. The fear is. That is a legitimate question, Mr. Nash. The answer is yes. And that scares the hell out of me. So I'm just going to leave it as is that what I was given 50 something years. I got 53 under my belt on this thing. My dad's nose is the same. He seemed to make it do. He's okay. He looked better with age. He grew into it.

[Dave Nash]

I think anyone over 50 shouldn't do any men.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, I think all you are probably.

[Dave Nash]

I don't. I don't. I don't like any of the work.

[John Holmberg]

It depends. I don't, don't know. They got it. It's good. I guess if you see it and notice it, they probably shouldn't have done it.

[Dale Hellestray]

Brutal.

[John Holmberg]

I saw a woman the other day that I swear to God I thought she was about 38. And then my eyes drifted down. They were gonna naturally go from face down.

[Dale Hellestray]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

Started to drift down.

[Dale Hellestray]

And I noticed your hands.

[John Holmberg]

Well, yeah, her neck and her hands. Her neck looked like she was 104. She had like a turkey gobbler and like liver spots. But hey, face was spectacular. You screwed up.

[Dale Hellestray]

What'd I do?

[Dave Nash]

Should have went up to her and said, hey, who's your plastic surgeon? I'm thinking about you.

[John Holmberg]

Get a nose job. You look great. From here to here, right?

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And she went, hey, she was done. I can't hear you, son. Yeah. The injuries are a weird thing, though. We talked a little off the air that. It is a weird thing. It seems like there's a lot more injuries now while we're trying to safety, especially with football. Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

But basketball, too. Yeah, basketball fakes all the time.

[John Holmberg]

Basketball fakes, but they're out. Look, sciatica. LeBron's out with sciatica. Nah, everybody's got sciatica. How does that stop you? Take the shot.

[Dale Hellestray]

It's fascinating. Yeah, take the shot.

[John Holmberg]

Take the shot. It works wonders.

[Dale Hellestray]

But you had talked, or we had talked at some point, maybe even Sunday, about football and the injuries and all those soft tissue injuries. They don't practice.

[Brett Vesely]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellestray]

So you do not. There is such a thing as you have to build calluses.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellestray]

You have to hit. The first hit is always going to hurt. Then second is going to hurt a little less, and the third hit is going to hurt even less than that. But if you don't hit.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellestray]

The first time you get hit. Plus when. If you're not ever going full speed. And don't tell me you can go full speed in a, you know, in a walkthrough practice or a helmet only practice. You try and simulate it in a full pattern practice. And that's where the hamstrings, the calves and all these things start. Start rearing their ugly head.

[John Holmberg]

If you don't go full, you're going to get hurt. That's been known since Little League. Like, if you or you try to kind of pull up on something, that's when a hamstring goes. It's exactly what a hamstring goes is when it's thinking it's going to get pushed to the limits. And you fool your own body and your hamstring snaps because it's doing different stuff. It's. It's, you know, it's reacting differently. I don't get. I mean, I don't get why there's so many soft tissue injuries other than the old Rick Russell. You can't pull fat. These guys are wound too tight.

[Dale Hellestray]

There is a thing. Is too muscular. Yeah. Because guess what? They found ways to make you stronger. They may have found ways to make your muscles bigger and all, but they haven't found a way to strengthen ligaments.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yep. So if my quads and hamstrings are just out of this world strong, well, guess what? My knee ligaments are the same.

[John Holmberg]

And there's people with, like, bony ankles, baby ankles, cankles. And you can have massive calves and, like, I have big calves and tiny ankles.

[Dale Hellestray]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And that does no favors for me with mobility on my. Yeah, it's bad. I gotta wrap them up like crazy. Knees are the same thing. So you're right. You can get humongous quads. If you're built skeletally with kind of average knees. You've just put a lot of weight and pressure on those. So. And body fat percentage, that I think when you played, I don't know what they meant. It probably ran you at 30%. I'm not probably.

[Dale Hellestray]

I think I played about 15%.

[John Holmberg]

No kidding.

[Dale Hellestray]

But again, I wasn't pop. Nobody was pot there. There are a couple guys popping muscles, some wide receivers, defensive back. But the rest of us, you're. You're strong.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. Because Leon Bell was at 4.6, and the doctors were like, any less and you're going the wrong way. Like, you can't be that lean. So I just think.

[Dale Hellestray]

Think about that. And if you want to do some studies. No. Doctors figured out a way to make. You can strengthen every muscle in your body, but you can't strengthen the ligament. Yeah. And so now, you see, these ACLs.

[John Holmberg]

And hamstrings are easy, and they're getting tweaked like crazy on these guys. And I always think it's that they've wound them up too tight. There's something to just being a little looser, a little less.

[Dave Nash]

Well, I wasn't wound too tight, and I had hamstring problems every spring training.

[John Holmberg]

You were probably wound pretty tight. You're compact.

[Dave Nash]

Either it takes too lazy to stretch.

[John Holmberg]

Half an hour to jog the bases, your hamstrings probably just wore out.

[Dale Hellestray]

Hey, my hamstrings tight, Coach.

[John Holmberg]

That's another thing I think, the stretching thing. I never stretched.

[Dave Nash]

Stretched, Never. And it's terrible.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah, I always stretch.

[Dave Nash]

That's good for you.

[John Holmberg]

Stretching hurts more than an inch.

[Dave Nash]

That's really.

[Dale Hellestray]

Well, I used to like it. But I'll tell you this. And I know if. While I'm watching the news at night, before I go to bed, if I get down on the ground and do my hurdler and groin and whatever stretch, I know I'll feel better than.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, it hurts, though.

[Dale Hellestray]

And it's freaking. I'm not. I don't get down on the ground anymore.

[John Holmberg]

Getting up, Sue. Hard. Yes, it's terrible. It's John Holmberg here for the amazing people at the Core Institute. I talked to a guy a While ago about his shoulder. He was going to get surgery. And I said, you know what? The Core Institute is not some assembly line of cutting you and trying to get you to do surgery. They want you to feel better, and they've got options. A lot of treatment options can come your way just by visiting the Core Institute's experts and having them put a plan together. Physical therapy has fixed him. He's pain free. You can be too. Don't accept pain. Do something about it. Live pain free. Go to the Core institute dot com. Hey, it's John Holmerg here for game day Men's Health. Being in shape, it's not easy. In fact, it's not fun. The older you get, the harder it is to stay in shape. Excuses get in the way a lot of the times, but sometimes our bodies just stop cooperating. You don't produce the same way you did 10 years ago. And that's true no matter how old you are. And when you hit 50, forget it. You really feel the difference. But since I wasn't showing signs of gains with my workouts, we looked into peptides, and I'm feeling a massive difference. Medically supervised, completely safe. My energy is great. If you think you need a little help like I did, just go to gamedaymen's health.com. yeah, also, a thing I wanted to talk about was the gambling thing in the NBA. We talked a little gambling. It's. It quieted quick, really fast. It was last Thursday. We found out about it one week to the day later. You haven't heard a peep. And, you know, I have a friend who's kind of jokey about the mob, and he said out loud, yeah, it's kind of what we used to do in the 50s. Like, you know, you get the rats, you arrest the rats first, and you basically throw the charges at them and let everybody else know, hey, we're out there. And you put the rats in. The FBI does this. They put the rats in the package. And if anybody starts talking, they're wandering the streets until trial day.

[Dale Hellestray]

You're almost like, say, put me in prison.

[John Holmberg]

Exactly. And so I'm not saying that anybody's gonna get hit, but I wouldn't be surprised when you've got all five crime families, a Jewish mafia, and everything else thrown in the mix of this, Somebody's going to get quieted. And, boy, did this. Shut up fast. You think it's a media control?

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah, but tell me this real quick. I'm making between 5 and $15 million a year. Yeah, I made $100 million in my life. And you pick up your phone and the guy talks to you in Israel and says, hey, we got this thing for you.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. Nope.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Unless.

[Dale Hellestray]

How hard is it to hang up on that? I understand if, hey, I'm into the mob or I'm into somebody for, for $50 million and I don't know if I'm ever gonna be able to repay it. Yeah. But come on.

[John Holmberg]

Or like, what do you mean by media control with this, though? How does media control.

[Dave Nash]

Well, the other thing is, quite frankly, in our society, that was a big news.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

And the next day we're onto something.

[John Holmberg]

Else new, which is huge, but it's still in the sports world, lingering. And Mike Greenberg gets in trouble at ESPN a little bit for talking too much about his parlays after that story. And I'm like, that's what ESPN is now. They're espn. Go Bet app.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah, I get that. But who do you think, you don't think the sports organizations don't control the media.

[John Holmberg]

Well, I mean, there's control over their own product.

[Dave Nash]

You're gonna be for the NBA. Hey, you're going to be giving us all this. Hey, we're gonna, we're not, we're, we're not gonna be, we're not gonna be easy to work with. We're not gonna give you all these, we're not gonna give you access. We're not gonna. Hey, you've got to, unfortunately, in the media, you've got to be friendly with these, all the sports.

[John Holmberg]

But to me it doesn't make sense because, you know, NBC just bought the rights to the NBA for billions. The NFL is Fox, cbs, NBC. Billions of dollars. You'd think it would work the other way, that the, the leagues have to play ball with the media, like.

[Dale Hellestray]

But now hold on. Every turn I'm going to interject here while some of your theories I'm starting to get a little more interested in buying. We're not talking about sport. The Sporting News or Sports Illustrated or the sports section of the New York mean. We're talking about sections of the newspapers and broadcast news broadcasts that don't give two dams about sports.

[John Holmberg]

It's true.

[Dale Hellestray]

And cnn, Fox News, name it.

[John Holmberg]

Countless amounts of Instagram pages that don't play the game.

[Dale Hellestray]

Hey, you shut down.

[John Holmberg]

I don't care. Yeah, barstool sports might have gotten too big, but originally there's 20 or 30 of those you haven't heard of that are got press passes now. Yeah, you know, I mean, they're not all playing that same game. So, yeah, I kind of agree that corralling all of it would be nearly impossible. And there'd be somebody who'd be like, oh, I was just told by an executive not to talk about this. That would make that guy's Instagram page explode.

[Dale Hellestray]

You could do that. If you're a local sports show here in Arizona. Say you're the flagship station and something happens, you can have the head honchos send over a note. We're not talking about this. Right. Our livelihood counts on that.

[John Holmberg]

If we, if we decided to get press passes and go to some of these, we're not being told, hey, you guys, don't. We'll lose our press pass. And then it's a bigger story. Like, I asked the wrong questions. They took my press pass away. They don't want to talk now. You've become Woodward and Bernstein. You're blowing the roof off of this thing.

[Dave Nash]

You do a sports show every morning 8 to 10.

[Dale Hellestray]

Are you talking about it?

[Dave Nash]

Where are you finding the information from? Where's it coming from? Do you have access to them? I'm asking you.

[John Holmberg]

You're in it.

[Dale Hellestray]

All I'm saying is that it's completely died down, because I don't think it's.

[John Holmberg]

Been presented, and I don't think that's true. Both things are true at once. Like the information stream has been cut off, and the people that would talk about that based on their sources can't because there's no new information.

[Dale Hellestray]

Are you telling me a New York Times guy who's in charge of their crime division or whatever gives two hoots at the NBA's mad?

[Dave Nash]

Yeah, but again, most. Most individual reporters, in my estimation, if they're. If they're barking up the wrong tree, they're gonna get. They're gonna get slapped down. They're gonna say, we're not doing that.

[John Holmberg]

That's the thing about reporters. I'm a jackass that way. The second I get slapped down, I'm gonna go, oh, really? I don't need you.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah, but unfortunately you do, because if. If they fire you, where are you going to go get a new job. And you're not a reporter.

[John Holmberg]

That's.

[Dale Hellestray]

There's.

[John Holmberg]

That's the old way. The new way is, where am I going? To a new job. I fire up my phone and I grab a microphone and I make my own job. And now I've got you a lot of work. It is a lot of work. But now I've got you on the hook because you just made my career. Because now I can go out and start saying, oh, this particular human being who works for the Timberwolves told me, if this happens again, I'm out. Because we don't talk about that. Oh, I just uncovered the scandal.

[Dave Nash]

I'm not arguing that, because there's great reporters that do that. Like James o'.

[John Holmberg]

Keefe. Sure.

[Dave Nash]

So it happens.

[Dale Hellestray]

But.

[Dave Nash]

But once you make that path. Yeah, that's your path.

[John Holmberg]

You're on it for good.

[Dave Nash]

James o' Keefe will not be getting hired by.

[John Holmberg]

But he doesn't want to.

[Dave Nash]

Well, okay.

[John Holmberg]

He's his own mate. He made his own.

[Dave Nash]

So you've got your choice. Which way do you want to do it? You want to do it the easy.

[Dale Hellestray]

Way or the hard way?

[John Holmberg]

Well, it depends on if they're making it harder. They're making it easy. I think all these things can be real at once.

[Dave Nash]

You, the Satanist, the sellout, you're not going to do it the hard way. Most people are that way.

[John Holmberg]

But you're not hearing me. It's the easy way. If you try to step on me. In the old days, it was the hard way. It's the easy way now. There's too many outlets. I mean, we sit in this room just because we felt like it and put a podcast together. There is nobody sitting there going, you guys better not do this. You better not do that. But I'll tell you right now, if somebody came in from the Arizona Cardinals and said, here's what you're not gonna do, the next show is all about.

[Dale Hellestray]

Oh, yeah, no doubt about it.

[Dave Nash]

But we're not mainstream. They're probably talking about we're not mainstream.

[John Holmberg]

The fastest way to get mainstream is to be the guy with a story nobody else tells.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah, I agree with you, John. You and I are brilliant.

[Dave Nash]

Is that why you're talking about the sitting down peeing thing?

[John Holmberg]

That's exactly right. Yes. Plenty of guys who do it.

[Dale Hellestray]

I just disagree with you.

[John Holmberg]

Plenty of guys who do it. My neighbors, they do it.

[Dave Nash]

Are you noticing my body language when I'm listening to you? It's not very good.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, close your legs.

[Dale Hellestray]

For God. How does that come. Hey, I sit down to pee to you.

[John Holmberg]

I've said it several times. I tell guys all the. My friend's son, he got tired of cleaning the bathroom. His wife's like, the bathroom is a disaster. So he took his son in there and he blacklit the bathroom, and he's like, what's going on in here? Like, the shower curtain is covered instead. Like the blacklist. He's like, sit down to pee. You're making a mess.

[Dave Nash]

Did he say, mom's not doing a very good job Job?

[John Holmberg]

That's what I'd have said. That's what I actually, I had that exact same. But when my mom said, I'm not cleaning your bathroom anymore, and I went in there and I had white tile, I'm like, I'm a disaster. I'm not going to do this anymore. This is gross. So anyway, we get back to that.

[Dale Hellestray]

All you want.

[John Holmberg]

Last thing I want to talk about before we give Dave his insanity. I went to a. I won't say what, but everybody who knows me knows I went to a charity gala, which was actually lovely. It was a beautiful thing, and I thought it was a great charity. I do have a problem because I've been to several of these. When you're really successful, Dave, they tell you when you come to our charity gal, they want your money, they ask you.

[Dave Nash]

I've never been to a gallon nor probably.

[John Holmberg]

And, you know, I said that about myself until I. Oh, there's this mailbox just filled with invitations. Gala this. Please come, John, please, By all means. We'll give you a free table on this.

[Dale Hellestray]

Now, is this coat and tie?

[John Holmberg]

This one was not. But I have been to a few coat and ties and.

[Dale Hellestray]

And you have a coat and tie.

[John Holmberg]

I've got. I've got several suits. I've got. I've got a tux. I'm set up.

[Dale Hellestray]

I'm ready to go for.

[John Holmberg]

Want to put them on.

[Dale Hellestray]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

But I got them. So I've been to a couple. One, I will say by name, because I did not think it was a worthy charity. The one, I won't say by name was a worthy charity. But the event had a specific problem that I'm noticing with this celebrity gala thing. The NBA has its hall of fame funded by charitable donation, which I did not know. Jerry Colangelo.

[Dale Hellestray]

A gala every year.

[John Holmberg]

What's a gala? Every year? And I went to it one year out the wigwam.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah. Yep.

[John Holmberg]

And it was lovely. Nice. The food, the chicken, it's all kind of cookie cutter stuff. At each table was an NBA player of the past. Right. Tom Chambers was out there, a couple of guys with some names you'd know. On the stage, there were five billionaires, and each of them giving us the amount of money that it takes to keep the NBA's hall of Fame afloat. And they rebuilt it and supposed to be great, but they're like, in order to keep this thing moving, we need donations we don't. We're not.

[Dale Hellestray]

We're.

[John Holmberg]

We're exactly. Your eyes are doing what they should do. And then they did auctions and you know, you had your paddle to raise and I'm watching and not one NBA player bid on one thing for their own NBA hall of Fame. A few of them on the cusp. I think Tom Chambers would be one that's awfully close to being an NBA hall of Famer. A couple other guys in there and I'm like, I got five billionaires selling me an $8,000 trip to Italy that is now up to 10 grand on the auction. And you know who bought it? One of the guys on stage because no one was bidding. And the next one. So then I go to this other one. And the face of the entire charity is a Hall of Fame football player. Great guy, great charity, great everything. But I noticed that no other football players were there. There were no players from his past with him. There were no owners of the franchises he played for. At these. They're asking me, and not just me, but people like me for this. And I found it odd. I'm not against giving money to the charity. I thought it was great. Where are they, Dale? Where are the NFL players in and amongst each other? Or are there so many of these charitable events that it would be this round robin, non stop? I give to yours, you come to mine. This guy goes to that and then it's all you're doing.

[Dale Hellestray]

Well, I, I know who you're talking about. And we can keep his name out of it. That's fine.

[John Holmberg]

I don't mind saying it because I think the charity is. And he's doing an amazing job. I just don't. I don't want to throw it under the bus.

[Dale Hellestray]

But the one thing I will say about. But hall of Fame, NFL quarterbacks, they're asked to come to everything.

[John Holmberg]

Yes, true.

[Dale Hellestray]

And so you know, if you're Troy Aikman, you're going to go to five.

[John Holmberg]

Sure.

[Dale Hellestray]

You're not going to go 25. Right. And so it's. It's one of those. Oh, Elway, you want me to come? Well, you come to mine and I'm going to go to yours.

[John Holmberg]

Right.

[Dale Hellestray]

I pick somebody. Peyton Manning, you come to mind the guy that we're talking about, I don't know how he runs that. I know his reputation is not. Not super stellar.

[John Holmberg]

Okay.

[Dale Hellestray]

And I know that him and his wife. Yeah. While they're noble their, Their thought process and all that, it's very noble. It's a great Cause. Yep.

[Dave Nash]

Yep.

[Dale Hellestray]

I just think that that couple tends to turn off a lot of people.

[John Holmberg]

Is it because of them not participating? That's all I'm asking. I'm not, I'm not saying anybody's a bad guy. I'm saying they're. Is it. You got to participate in mine or I'm not going to be very, very.

[Dale Hellestray]

I could see that happening.

[John Holmberg]

That's kind of what I was wondering.

[Dale Hellestray]

That Troy makes a call, say, hey, you come to mine, I'll come to. Yeah. No, I.

[John Holmberg]

One of the best ones I was ever part of was yours. You had that charity basketball event and good Lord, man, a lot of people came out. Troy, Michael, you had.

[Dale Hellestray]

Josh Sanders and.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. It was a ridiculous who's who of people that you could lean on.

[Dale Hellestray]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And they were happy to do it.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

And there they are in a high school basketball gym.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah. And playing basketball and kind of loving it.

[John Holmberg]

But again, standing.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

And so that was kind of my indoctrination into the whole. Oh, okay, I see. They do this for each other since then. And this. And you know, the one I'm mentioning kind of quietly. It's not the only one. I've been to several. The NBA's was the worst. That was thievery.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

That I'll never go to again. And I. And they need. The guy that was sitting next to me, played for the lakers in the 70s. He goes, the whole thing's a scam. The NBA hall of Fame could support itself with one of those guys.

[Dale Hellestray]

Check whether you. You're thinking, if you're that NBA player sitting there going, well, why am I going to spend $10,000 when each one of those dudes up there can and will write a check for Colangelo. Right. For whatever shortfall there is.

[John Holmberg]

Why is it that they. And that was the thing I was like, why? I don't know. Maybe it's an NFL thing or whatever. But it was one of these deals where I felt like. Like it's hard to give rich people money for their passion when the people you associate with them aren't there. Well, I don't know if that's fair on my part.

[Dale Hellestray]

No. But. But again, I, I will tell you this just to compare and contrast.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellestray]

If Troy has a, a, A charity he's go to and he does Dallas Children's Hospital. Yeah. He puts on a golf tournament. He does a whole shindig for a weekend and he will do a gala. There's no less than 10 to 12 players that are going to show up to that.

[John Holmberg]

No. Yeah. He's getting. He's going to get.

[Dale Hellestray]

He's going to get people because.

[John Holmberg]

So there's just something about reciprocation that may be the issue.

[Dale Hellestray]

And like, I've been to a number of those. I. I'm obviously not asking Troy for reciprocation because again, me being there, I played his galter like 10 years in a row.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellestray]

And I think everybody who put down 15 grand to play in the foursome. Yeah. When I walked up to the golf course. But I'm like, hey, I promise you, at that point, I was a better golfer. I'm more fun than Troy.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, well, that's true.

[Dale Hellestray]

But you also got the concerts and. And all that. But I'm just telling you as far as teammates. Troy does that. Fifteen guys are going to show up. Yeah. He's sending the invite. The one you're talking about.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellestray]

Not. Not so sure how well liked.

[Brett Vesely]

Okay.

[Dale Hellestray]

He is.

[John Holmberg]

That's fair. I don't know that. But I mean.

[Dale Hellestray]

Well, that's. That's a word that I hear.

[John Holmberg]

The reputation.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

Okay. So that explains something because I just didn't know and it would. And it. And it seemed to be lacking that. And I felt bad. I felt bad for them because you could have raised so much more money.

[Dale Hellestray]

You would think. And you. And you tell me. I mean, you're. It's an Arizona thing. So I mean, you tell me Anquan Bolden won't show up for an hour, hour and a half.

[John Holmberg]

How many athletes live here that didn't play that? You just think you could lean on.

[Dale Hellestray]

Something or played somewhere else.

[John Holmberg]

Right.

[Dale Hellestray]

And they're here.

[John Holmberg]

It was just. It was just awkward. And I've been to a few. Not just this one where I'm like, man, it seems like had they just leaned on a couple other guys, this thing goes double what we did. And it was all great again. Cause was incredible.

[Dave Nash]

Maybe he doesn't want to ask anyone.

[John Holmberg]

Else and maybe there's that. I just wanted to know from Dale's perspective, having had to deal with this and being around Troy Aikman and stuff and knowing this is it. Is it a certain point where all NFL guys are. I'm not doing this anymore.

[Dale Hellestray]

No. I'm getting pulled every direction because you know, what certain people are doing are good and it depends on your relationship. And you're right. Like when I decided to do those basketball games, I didn't know what's going to happen. Yeah. I. I just said I didn't want to do a golf Tournament because there are a thousand of them.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellestray]

And number two, you got to count on now 50 or 60 athletes to show up. And athletes are bad. They're bad at showing up and things. But at basketball games, everybody loved it.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, it was a blast. And there was a lot of people that really got a. Their money's worth. I'll say that. You buy a ticket to this thing and you're in. You're. From me to Nash from four hall of Fame football players. It was pretty remarkable. So, yeah, I kind of found that to be an odd anomaly.

[Dale Hellestray]

I'm still disappointed you didn't tell Michael to back off.

[John Holmberg]

Off and let me take the ball. You don't know what to do. And Michael Irvin's a foot from you going, give me the ball. I'm like, I don't know what to do. I gotta give this guy the ball.

[Dale Hellestray]

You say, back off, give me the ball.

[John Holmberg]

I'm like, come on. I did. We're on the same team.

[Dave Nash]

Did you mean the ball? You didn't tell him you had the best talk show.

[John Holmberg]

I. At that time, I didn't have that kind of confidence. Hey, man, this is true.

[Dave Nash]

Talk show here.

[John Holmberg]

Years ago, he was awesome. But yeah, I gave him the ball because he was going to take it anyway. All right, well, that's beautiful. Well done, boys. See, we've. We've closed up another one here. And Dave now is. He's been penning notes.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yes. He's been quiet the last five.

[Dave Nash]

There's so much talk, I don't even know where to go. But I.

[John Holmberg]

Time out there it is another episode of that sports podcast, the sports.

[Dave Nash]

The sports Scene. You don't even know what it's called.

[John Holmberg]

Well, it's got so many names, but.

[Dale Hellestray]

The main one is John Holmes.

[John Holmberg]

John Holmberg sports podcast with permanent guest Dale. Hell, it's not a big seller.

[Dave Nash]

I'm telling you.

[John Holmberg]

It's not a big seller. It's doing well.

[Dale Hellestray]

Okay. It's the content, Dave. It's a content.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, I enjoyed it. Dale Hellstray, three time world champion. He's saying goodbye. John Holmberg, all time world champion, 98 KUPD, right here in Phoenix. And of course, former radio media specialist Dave Nash. And now I give you five minutes of a man with Thoughts.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah, I didn't know where to go and. And actually took a trip. I was on a plane and I'm realizing you've been on a plane when someone has a medical emergency. I have the first thing I think about right now, now, he ended up okay. First thing I think about, though, in.

[Dale Hellestray]

My head, don't delay my flight. All right.

[John Holmberg]

Second thing that goes through my head, the food service.

[Dave Nash]

The third thing that goes through my head is, was this guy vaxxed or not?

[John Holmberg]

Oh, my God.

[Dale Hellestray]

Really?

[Dave Nash]

Oh, yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Okay.

[Dave Nash]

Oh, yeah. Because so many people have died suddenly. Have you heard the word? And they actually have a word for it now. It's like when, when it. When a. When a baby dies. Sids, which again, is vaccine generally vaccine related.

[Dale Hellestray]

No, they had SIDS before vaccination.

[Dave Nash]

They've had vaccines.

[Dale Hellestray]

You don't vaccinate three month old kids. Go ahead.

[Dave Nash]

Yes, you do. You get a vaccination the first day when you're born.

[John Holmberg]

So they have sudden infant death syndrome.

[Dave Nash]

Sick now. They have.

[John Holmberg]

They have adult infant death syndrome, aids, something.

[Dave Nash]

But yeah, there's so many people that are dying suddenly. A lot of famous athletes, entertainers, dying in their sleep or dying at certain times. We talked about it with Demar Hamlin, who was. Luckily, his event happened when he was on the field, and there's trainers and doctors around, but other than that, do.

[John Holmberg]

You think that was vaccine related?

[Dave Nash]

Oh, I know it's vaccine.

[Dale Hellestray]

You do?

[Dave Nash]

He was vaxxed a week before it.

[John Holmberg]

Okay.

[Dave Nash]

And on Twitter said, hey, I got my vax. You too.

[John Holmberg]

Okay.

[Dave Nash]

Week later.

[John Holmberg]

I didn't know that.

[Dave Nash]

Died on the field and died on the field. Was brought back not once, but twice. So anyway, so get back to the plane.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah. Did you walk up and ask him? No.

[John Holmberg]

How long do you plan on laying here, sir?

[Dale Hellestray]

Hey, sit up. You can't park. Would you sit up? They're gonna divert the flight.

[Dave Nash]

No, but, but, but the amount of people that have died because of these vaccines, these Covid vaccines, you know, you can look that excess death in the range of 18 to 44 or whatever age group, it's somewhere in there where people should not be dying in their sleep.

[John Holmberg]

Spontaneous was up.

[Dave Nash]

Up 40% from before COVID 40%. That is a. That's like an apocalypse of excess deaths for people in. At a younger age. And it's probably happened at older age too. But people go, oh, you had a heart attack. You were 60. Oh, look at Dale. He's. Of course he's gonna die. But, but it could have been because of the vaccine. But you don't know it because you're older. But when younger people are dropping dead for no reason, you got to look into it.

[John Holmberg]

Look into it.

[Dave Nash]

So that's the first thing I thought of. And I'm on the plane, I'm Going, I wonder if this guy's fast or not.

[John Holmberg]

How old was he? How old was the guy that was.

[Dave Nash]

Oh, he was under four.

[John Holmberg]

He was under four. Young guy. Okay.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah. So I don't know what happened. I don't know. I don't care. It doesn't matter to me a little, but. But, but then I'm walking through the airport and there's actually people with masks on still. And I just think, well, there's a.

[John Holmberg]

Corpse on a plane, for God's sakes.

[Dave Nash]

Yes. Well, no, I'm just thinking, how are you still wearing a mask? No one thought of wearing masks before, maybe other than Japanese people, because Japanese people seem to wear masks.

[John Holmberg]

I love that. And I, I thought for a while the masks caused covet because the only people that were wearing them were over in Asia. And then it brought it over here. Then we were wearing them.

[Dave Nash]

Well, I will say this. After all the health that I've looked into, the fact that when you wear masks, you get at least 10% less oxygen intake.

[Dale Hellestray]

Okay.

[Dave Nash]

And that makes your body a prime environment for illness. People that wear masks, it's just the dumbest, stupidest thing you could ever do. And I, in the beginning of COVID I went into all this to try to try to help people say, listen, you don't wear masks. You know what? Now I don't even say, like, yeah, wear a mask. Put an extra one on. I might be catchy. Try one because, you know, we don't need people that stupid here to be carrying on.

[John Holmberg]

That's right.

[Dave Nash]

Masks, Darwin, it's unbelievable. You're mentally ill. If you wear a mask, there's no benefit from it at all. 0.0. It's a John Belushi grade average as.

[John Holmberg]

Why did he take a punch? As a, as a thing that makes you like, Covid resistant. You're saying some people have to wear masks because obviously got copd or they've got a lung issue. They can't even take in pollutants. It's dangerous for them to be outside. I'm just, I'm just making that point.

[Dave Nash]

That the only reason doctors wear masks in the hospital is because they're spitting you. If they spit on. Yeah, there's bacteria. Mask will prevent you spitting on someone, creating bacteria. And, and we've. Dale, I've already. We're doing a show with him. And, And I don't even know if there are viruses. It's just all toxicology. Toxicology, which is just bacterial related. Every illness is bacterial related.

[John Holmberg]

So the guy who's on the plane that's in trouble. You don't know that he had that. But you're gonna blame the COVID show. No.

[Dave Nash]

It's the first thing that pops in my head and I wonder how many people out there go, oh, that person died unexpectedly. I wonder if he's vaccinated.

[John Holmberg]

Do you have a twist on why do you suppose they would. That would be something that would be beneficial.

[Dave Nash]

It's not beneficial.

[Brett Vesely]

I just.

[Dave Nash]

I don't understand how people aren't noticing that and then questioning what we went through. Because I promise you this. That was a psychop on our society to get everyone vaccinated, which is now causing tremendous health issues in. In unrelated areas like turbo cancer or all these other ailments that are happening.

[John Holmberg]

Never heard of turbocan.

[Dave Nash]

Absolutely.

[Dale Hellestray]

And also mental stuff with kids.

[John Holmberg]

Sure, sure.

[Dale Hellestray]

There's so many side effects. The only time I ever get really bothered about it, if I'm driving along the road, you come up to a stoplight and there's a dude or a girl sitting in the car next to you in his car with a mask on, alone. I've also seen guys, People riding their bikes. Yeah. By themselves.

[John Holmberg]

I don't understand the outside, but again, I look at people. Go do whatever it is you're doing.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah. You're.

[John Holmberg]

You're driving everybody nuts. I don't know what this.

[Dave Nash]

But again, I. It used to drive me nuts because I. I just. I felt sorry for them because they don't have the understanding and knowledge knowing that that's harmful to them.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

And. And. But if you haven't figured it out five years later.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

That mask. Don't do anything. They're harmful. I can't help you.

[John Holmberg]

And if you're still getting Covid shot, you say you gotta stop doing that same thing. They need to come up with a shot.

[Dave Nash]

No, they don't.

[John Holmberg]

Yes. To make it so we don't die from the shot. That's fantastic. The anti. Co. COVID vaccine. Shot.

[Dale Hellestray]

Shot.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah. It's not a shot. It's just. Yes, it is.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

It's. Go outside, stay in the sun.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Vitamin. Vitamin D. You'll get me started on.

[John Holmberg]

My conspiracy about our. Our false threats that the sun is dangerous.

[Dave Nash]

Oh, yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

It. Sun is fantastic for you.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Just think about this. This is. This is going on and on.

[Dale Hellestray]

Yeah. It's your fault.

[John Holmberg]

Right? At 5. 5. 35.

[Dave Nash]

I don't even know what that means.

[John Holmberg]

Minutes Earth time.

[Dale Hellestray]

You have five minutes, you're over here. 35. That's what that means.

[Dave Nash]

Then I'm done.

[John Holmberg]

Wrap it up.

[Dale Hellestray]

All right.

[Dave Nash]

I just got time off stage.

[John Holmberg]

You got time? Yeah. You got Sandman off the Apollo stage. That's it.

[Dale Hellestray]

There he is.

[John Holmberg]

A madman with a bullhorn. That's Dave Nash. The five minutes are up. This sports thing, plus that is over.

[Dale Hellestray]

Foreign.

[Brett Vesely]

Vesely from Holmberg's morning sickness for Game Day Men's Health. Look, guys don't want to talk about or even think about things like testosterone replacement, erectile dysfunction, weight loss, or even peptide treatment. You figure, hey, I'm just getting older. It is what it is. Don't believe me? Then you really need to check out Game Day Men's Health. They're your go to Men's Health experts. Everything is done in house. None of this go here for a consultation, then go over here to have your labs done, then back again. I don't know about you, but that's a huge waste of time. So check them out online at Gameday Men's Health.