The Sports Thing w/Holmberg, Hellestrae & Nash - Episode 2

Summary

Holmberg’s Morning Sickness – “The Sports Thing” w/ Holmberg, Hellestrae & Nash – Episode 2

Date: August 21, 2025
Host & Guests:

• John Holmberg (Host, 98KUPD “Morning Sickness”)
• Dale Hellestrae (3x Super Bowl Champion, Dallas Cowboys)
• Dave Nash (Entrepreneur, former Minor League Baseball player, and resident skeptic/conspiracy fan)

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Episode Overview

This lively episode of "The Sports Thing" continues the trio’s freewheeling football banter, focusing on NFL over/unders, coaching impacts, preseason surprises, and some classic sports arguments, all spiced up with humor, personal stories, and Nash’s signature conspiracy rants. The tone is unfiltered, sarcastic, and sometimes combative—in keeping with the show’s mission to “entertain, question, and disturb.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Bets & the Cardinals’ Chances

[01:42 - 04:10]

• Dale jokes about betting on the Arizona Cardinals to win the NFC West at +450.
• Holmberg doesn’t dismiss it, citing the division as "weaker than people think" and credits Cardinals’ coaching:
  • “I think the Cardinals will win that division… I think they're the best coached team in that division.” – Holmberg [04:08]
• They argue merits of other coaches (McVay, Shanahan) but most panelists agree the Cardinals are rising thanks to Gannon (HC) and Monti Ossenfort (GM).

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2. NFL Coaching, Team-Building, and Overrated Legends

[04:50 - 09:47]

• Nash launches his annual “Belichick is overrated” rant, sparking heated debate:
  • “Bill Belichick is the most overrated coach in the history of football” – Nash [06:40]
• Holmberg counters, credits Belichick’s defensive genius but concedes offense/drafting is a weakness.
• The infamous Malcolm Butler Super Bowl benching resurfaces, leading to wild speculation:
  • “Malcolm Butler said, I don’t know why I didn’t play. I was ready. I’m healthy.” – Nash [08:33]

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3. Over/Unders, Coaches That Move the Needle, and AFC/NFC Analyses

[11:00 - 18:21]

• Discussion pivots to the Raiders, Chargers, Broncos, and how coaching impacts team win totals.
• Dale suggests Pete Carroll is “worth two wins," arguing coach impact is underrated.
• Jim Harbaugh’s coaching ability is weighed:
  • “You cannot argue him as a football coach… Everywhere he’s gone, he’s won.” – Hellestrae [14:17]
• Holmberg notes: “I’d say eight wins is a reasonable mark for the Raiders. I don’t trust the Chargers to be… a team I bet on or against.” [13:34]

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4. Chiefs, Eagles, Team-Building & Draft Capital

[18:21 - 23:20]

• The importance of drafting “up front” (O-line/D-line) as the Eagles have perfected is highlighted.
• Andy Weidl's draft philosophy—acquire as many picks as possible—gets praise:
  • “You give me 14 picks, I’m going to try to hit eight… If you’ve got 13 or 14 picks, you hit seven or eight, that’s huge.” – Holmberg [20:40]
• The Herschel Walker trade’s long-term impact & the Cowboys dynasty is discussed, with Hellestrae recalling the pile of picks.

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5. The NFL’s Salary Cap Squeeze and Contender Windows

[23:20 - 24:59]

• Concerns are voiced for teams loading on young talent:
  • “A team that’s got two or three picks in the first round is doomed… Their window closes in four years because they’re not going to be able to afford if the worst thing can happen: you hit on four picks in the first two rounds.” – Holmberg [23:04]
• Bengals, with their highly paid WRs & QB, are used as a cautionary example.

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6. Importance of Starting Strong & Personal Stories of Playoff Chases

[24:59 - 27:35]

• Holmberg and Hellestrae are baffled by T. Higgins’ quote:
  • “I’d rather be 0 and 8 so no one cares about us…” – T. Higgins (paraphrased by Nash) [25:03]
• Dale relives the grind of the 1993 Cowboys, who started 0-2 without Emmitt Smith and had to scramble for a playoff bye.
  • “So the entire season was a fricking grind. We had to beat the New York Giants in the last game… to win the division.” – Hellestrae [26:32]

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7. QB Debates & Cleveland’s Over/Under

[28:23 - 30:20]

• Nash is bullish on Cleveland’s over (5.5 wins), touting Flacco, and lambasts Deshaun Watson:
  • “I wouldn’t trust him with anything except maybe a child’s toy.” – Nash [30:27]
• John argues Watson is still the best talent but agrees with Nash on the Browns' history of failure.

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8. Bengals, Season Schedules, and Playoff Odds

[32:53 - 36:16]

• Group predicts Bengals under (9.5 wins), citing defensive losses.
• AFC North and East are declared the league’s toughest divisions.

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9. The Role of Home Field and Playoff Matchups

[36:16 - 38:02]

• Home field’s importance is debated; only two modern teams (Steelers '05, Packers '10) have won Super Bowls as full-road wild cards.
• “It’s important to have a home game in the playoffs. You travel, 17-game seasons… even a good team running three straight on the road is hard.” – Holmberg [36:17]

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10. Matching Up: 90s NFL & Ravens Heartache

[38:02 - 40:19]

• Hellestrae details playoff matchups: Cowboys always beat Packers, but 49ers were tougher.
• Holmberg gleefully bashes the Ravens’ playoff futility and Mark Andrews’ infamous drop:
  • “There’s a great meme… who in this room has F’d the entire football team?... Hi, I’m Mark Andrews…” – Holmberg [38:53]
• “[The Ravens] cannot get out of their own way. And nothing makes me happier…” – Holmberg [39:32]

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11. NFL Over/Under Value Bets

[40:36 - 41:47]

• Ravens and Chiefs identified as under bets with high lines (11.5 wins), especially due to injury risks at QB.
• Running QBs (Allen, Jackson, Fields) flagged as fragile for their teams’ win total bets.

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12. Preseason Surprises & QB Battles

[43:42 - 50:03]

• Discussing the “wow” of the Jaguars’ 70-yard preseason field goal, and its (non) impact on the record books.
• Dave Nash touts Giants rookie QB Jackson Dart as a preseason standout:
  • “He’s a big guy that can throw, that can move… I really like the Giants, and I think Jackson Dart’s going to be a really good find.” – Nash [47:18]
• Debate over when to unseat a starting QB (Wilson) in favor of a rookie, citing the risk of dividing a team.

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13. Football Gear, Safety, and Concussion Stories

[53:49 - 62:20]

• Dale reflects on helmet tech advances from his high school days (suspension helmets, water helmets, air) to today’s “guardian” helmets.
• Open talk about how older eras were less explosive due to less athletic training and weight rooms.
• Hellestrae: “They say every time two linemen hit each other, it’s like getting into a car crash going 15 miles an hour.” [57:29]
• Both hosts and Hellestrae describe their own concussion episodes; Holmberg describes crying at Frazier after a hit [59:34]; Dale describes playing entire games, not recalling being on the field due to “ghost mode” from a concussion [61:03].

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14. Nash’s Minute: Conspiracies & Vaccine Skepticism

[63:15 - 71:16]

• Nash’s “Nash Minute” tackles vaccines—with a highly controversial (and scientifically unsupported) anti-vax stance. He claims:
  • The polio vaccine didn’t eradicate polio [64:02],
  • “Not one vaccine in the history of man has helped us.” – Nash [69:00]
• Holmberg pushes back with statistics, but Nash stands firm, even denying the role of medicine in increased human lifespan.
  • “What has Big Pharma cured? …They don’t cure anything. They want you to stay sick.” – Holmberg & Nash [66:48]
• Nash claims all advances are due to plumbing and sanitation, not medicine.

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Notable Quotes & Highlights

• On sports heartbreaks:
  “You can say birth of your first child, wedding—not even close to watching the Baltimore Ravens lose.” – Holmberg [05:13]

• On Bill Belichick:
  “He’s the most decorated coach in history.” – Holmberg [06:48]
  “What’s his record without Tom Brady?” – Nash [06:52]

• On over/unders in betting:
  “Generally you don’t go more than one or two games over… It’s usually right in there.” – Nash [12:49]

• On the Steelers crowd in Vegas:
  “70,000 people in that stadium and 60,000… black and gold jerseys. It was weird.” – Holmberg [11:39]

• On Dak’s shoulder pads:
  “Back in the 90s, you had to wear thigh pads and knee pads. Nate Newton, at 360 lbs, would put just a little plastic shell… The pads weighed 2 ounces, but he thought a full thigh pad slowed him down.” – Hellestrae [55:28]

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Timestamps of Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------------------|------------------| | Cardinals division odds & coaching talk | 01:41 – 04:10 | | Belichick argument & Malcolm Butler Super Bowl rant | 06:40 – 09:47 | | Raiders/Chargers AO vs. coaching impact | 11:00 – 18:21 | | Draft capital & Eagles/Cowboys philosophy | 18:21 – 23:20 | | Bengals’ salary cap dilemma | 23:24 – 24:59 | | T. Higgins & the importance of starting strong | 25:03 – 27:35 | | Watson/Flacco/Browns QB argument | 28:23 – 30:20 | | Bengals & AFC/NFC scheduling/odds | 32:53 – 36:16 | | Home field advantage, playoffs, and matchups | 36:16 – 38:02 | | Ravens’ infamous playoff gaffe | 38:53 – 39:32 | | NFL win total value bets | 40:36 – 41:47 | | Preseason surprises (70-yard FG, Giants’ Jackson Dart) | 43:42 – 50:03 | | Football gear/safety/concussions | 53:49 – 62:20 | | Nash’s conspiracy/vaccine segment | 63:15 – 71:16 |

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Tone & Takeaways

• The episode is a fun, combative, and candid look at football through the lens of experience, fandom, and betting.
• Listeners get a mix of sharp football insight (“look at draft capital and roster construction”), nostalgia (Cowboys’ dynasties), and genuinely funny sports radio banter.
• Nash’s “Nash Minute” veers into conspiratorial territory, offering provocative (and widely debunked) anti-vaccine opinions, fully in character for the “angry fan” persona but flagged by Holmberg for skepticism.

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The Sports Thing delivers memorable, irreverent football talk perfect for fans craving both sharp analysis and laughs, with this episode spanning everything from NFL coaching legacies to preseason QB hype to heated debates about medicine and society.

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Memorable Out-of-Context Quote Award:

“Malcolm Butler’s banging everybody’s wife.” – Hellestrae [36:41]

Transcript

[Dave Nash]

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[John Holmberg]

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[Dave Nash]

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[John Holmberg]

No problem.

[Dave Nash]

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[John Holmberg]

No go.

[Dale Hellstray]

All right.

[Dave Nash]

As long as you want.

[John Holmberg]

For now. It's not right. Are we ready? Dale, Put your hat on.

[Dale Hellstray]

Almost like I'm placing a bet for the Cardinals to win the NFC West.

[Dave Nash]

Wow.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. Do it. That's actually a good bet. It's actually a really good bet.

[Dave Nash]

I think I. I can't argue with that.

[John Holmberg]

That's how this show's going to start us already pre conversations the Dale's in the middle of placing a bet that the Cardinals will win the NFC west this year. We'll get into that in a second. Welcome to this sports thing. My name's John Holmberg. There's Dale Hellstray, three time world champion from the Dallas Cowboys. Kids, back in a long time ago, Dallas Cowboys used to be something you had to reckon with in the NFL.

[Dave Nash]

Long time.

[John Holmberg]

It's been a long.

[Dale Hellstray]

It's been 30 years.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, it's been 30 plus.

[Dale Hellstray]

Well, 95.

[John Holmberg]

I know. It ain't ending. It ain't ending.

[Dale Hellstray]

Let's just put it there.

[John Holmberg]

30 plus. 30 and counting. Dave Nash, former minor league baseball superstar. Now, how would you like me to introduce you business entrepreneur genius.

[Dave Nash]

You know, we didn't talk about last show. Dale and I did a sports show. Sports talk show.

[John Holmberg]

Nobody talks about that.

[Dave Nash]

No, of course not, because nobody listens.

[John Holmberg]

The shame of AM radio.

[Dave Nash]

And I, you know, who am I? So I didn't go by my name. I went by the angry fan. Okay, that's fine. I. I don't need anyone to know who the hell I am.

[Dale Hellstray]

I don't care.

[John Holmberg]

I think you're right.

[Dale Hellstray]

It depends what he's talking about. Either. Angry fan, angry patriot.

[John Holmberg]

He's got a lot of Angry sex guy. Everything's angry Hangry sex guy. Yeah. That's how we're gonna end today's show. Figure out what that's all about, and you'll find out at the end of the show what Dave's all about as he has his Nash minutes. It's like you're the Andy Rooney of this show. Remember, Andy Rooney used to have a few words from. Yeah. Watch a deal with the sun. Basically gonna tell us that the sun is gonna kill you. Although you and I agree on that. We'll get into that later.

[Dave Nash]

My. My. My eyebrows aren't my.

[John Holmberg]

No, you need bigger ones, right? Well, they'll grow into it.

[Dave Nash]

Well, they.

[John Holmberg]

My name is John Holmberg. I am the host of the wildly successful radio show in Phoenix, Arizona, called morning sickness on 98KUPD, available on all your streaming platforms. And do yourself a favor and find some.

[Dale Hellstray]

Oh, you did just say.

[John Holmberg]

I just did.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

I gave you. I gave you a little one. A little one of those. Dale is right. Now you placed your bet. What was that? The NFC champion Arizona Cardinals?

[Dale Hellstray]

No, just NFC West.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, NFC west.

[Dale Hellstray]

It was plus 450.

[Dave Nash]

That's nice.

[John Holmberg]

That's really nice. And that goes to my theory of what I said in the last show. I think the. I think the Cardinals will Win that Division A. That division's weaker than. And it's not because they're so great.

[Dale Hellstray]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

I think they're the best coached team in that division.

[Dale Hellstray]

Seattle.

[Dave Nash]

Oh, oh, wait.

[John Holmberg]

Absolutely. Don't get started on Shanahan McVeigh.

[Dave Nash]

McVeigh is the best coach in football.

[John Holmberg]

I'll give you that. McVeigh is a great coach.

[Dave Nash]

Great.

[John Holmberg]

I think they're well coached.

[Dave Nash]

I think best coach in football.

[John Holmberg]

I wouldn't go crazy, but.

[Dave Nash]

But I'll give you Shanahan as out.

[John Holmberg]

Over his skis a little bit. And the character we don't know in Seattle.

[Dave Nash]

Seattle.

[John Holmberg]

All right. I'll give you that. McFarlane. It's an argument. It's an obvious argument. I love Jonathan Gannon and I really like Monty Austin Ford, and I am not a Cardinal sympathizer. I'm not a guy who wants this team to do great. I'm not a huge fan. I'm not a fan of anybody but the Pittsburgh Steelers. So you will hear me bash all the other teams as if I hate them.

[Dale Hellstray]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

With a. With a core of my soul I hate. Yeah.

[Dale Hellstray]

I mean, when things happen to the Baltimore Ravens, you literally get excited.

[John Holmberg]

I get T shirts made. I have Lamar Jackson crying. I have three or four T shirts in multiple colors. It was my screensaver for about six months. When. When he's unhappy. I have. Look, you can say birth of your first child.

[Dale Hellstray]

Wedding.

[John Holmberg]

Not even close to watching Big Josh.

[Dale Hellstray]

Walking around the wreck. What happened? The Baltimore Ravens lost.

[John Holmberg]

There's no. Oh, I'm half hard talking about it. Don't even get started about that. And that's no thanks to Dave.

[Dave Nash]

Come see us. We can help you.

[Dale Hellstray]

Because I agree with you wholeheartedly about Austin Fort and Jonathan Gannon. Yeah. Because. And again, here, locally, in. In. In Tempe, Arizona, Phoenix, Arizona. I love the direction of both the Cardinals and ASU football. Yeah. They. What they. What they've done, the Cardinals we're talking about right now is they go out and get guys who love football.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. And.

[Dale Hellstray]

And, and they've. They've just continued to build the roster around that. And you know what? You might not be the most talent or. But if you love football. Yeah. And you get a bunch of those guys together, it's.

[John Holmberg]

It's dangerous.

[Dale Hellstray]

Pretty damn good team.

[John Holmberg]

Well, you can become that team that beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl a few years ago for Philadelphia with Nick Foles. That was just a group of.

[Dale Hellstray]

Really. Nick Foles beat the Patriots.

[John Holmberg]

Big Nick.

[Dave Nash]

Nothing wrong with Big Nick.

[John Holmberg]

Also, as Truth. They did it by outsmarting them.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yup.

[John Holmberg]

That is rid. Doug Peterson was the coach and he out coached and outwitted Bill Belichick on Bill Belichick's home field because that was his.

[Dave Nash]

Who.

[John Holmberg]

Hut.

[Dave Nash]

You want me to get on that soapbox?

[John Holmberg]

Oh, God. Because that was his Super Bowl.

[Dale Hellstray]

Go ahead.

[Dave Nash]

Bill Belichick is the most overrated coach in the history of football.

[John Holmberg]

I believe the Tiffany's would disagree.

[Dave Nash]

I'll tell you why.

[John Holmberg]

He's the most decorated coach in the. In the history.

[Dave Nash]

Okay, what's his record without Tom Brady?

[John Holmberg]

Okay, stop.

[Dave Nash]

I'm serious.

[John Holmberg]

Any good coaches record without their quarterback?

[Dave Nash]

Well, again, I'll say without Tom Brady, he's worthless. One, two. That Super bowl, they were 11 and.

[John Holmberg]

5 with Matt Castle.

[Dave Nash]

He is a great defensive coordinator, maybe one of the best defensive coordinators of all time. And he's one of the most shrewd team builders in regards to.

[John Holmberg]

Salary cap. And, and, and he's got one massive hole in his game. And nobody ever said he was good at. He can't draft offense.

[Dave Nash]

No. Again, he can't even teach offense without Tom Brady. I will say this. And let me, Let me get to the point. In regards to that super bowl that year, Malcolm Butler was one of their most important defensive players.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

He played more snaps than anyone on that team.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Going into that Super Bowl. Something happened that week or something. I don't know. Screw Belichick's wife or something. Something happened, I don't know.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, you got bounced to Tennessee, but.

[Dave Nash]

He did not play in the Super Bowl. The guy who played more snaps than anyone that year. Yeah, he was their number one quarter cornerback or whatever it may be, or at least he was a starter all year. And they're playing the Eagles and the Eagles racked up about 200,000 yards in that game. They could not be stopped. You don't put Malcolm Butler in for one series to see if, like he might be able to slow them down.

[John Holmberg]

Your conspiratorial nonsense would believe that it had something to do with sex with Mrs. Belichick. I might think a hamstring. A knee they didn't want to reveal during the week.

[Dave Nash]

No, no, no. Malcolm Butler said, I don't know why I didn't play. I was ready. I'm healthy. I'm ready to go.

[Dale Hellstray]

Let me tell you one thing. The most amazing thing about that.

[John Holmberg]

It's a.

[Dale Hellstray]

It's a weird thing, amazing thing about that is that nobody said anything.

[John Holmberg]

Nobody did say a thing.

[Dale Hellstray]

Malcolm Butler's never Come out and say anything. Bill Belichick's never gonna say anything.

[John Holmberg]

I'll get on the Nash bandwagon on this. There's something with the Goodell leadership that says this is happening and no one will know why because there.

[Dale Hellstray]

There was no Belichick or Goodell.

[John Holmberg]

Goodell. There's no media questions to why this. Something went down there that Belichick might have been like. We go down together if we don't do. If Butler suspended quietly for the super bowl, we'll dress him. We're not telling Malcolm because he'll mouth off about why. I'll take something weird happened.

[Dave Nash]

If you can come up with a reason that they didn't play him even one play.

[John Holmberg]

It's not. Not that he banged someone's wife because that happens in pro sports constantly.

[Dave Nash]

I get that.

[John Holmberg]

Something horrible.

[Dave Nash]

Maybe he banged Bill Belichick. I don't know.

[John Holmberg]

Something happened then wouldn't he playing.

[Dave Nash]

Maybe. Maybe.

[Dale Hellstray]

Maybe he's disappointed.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah. Just.

[John Holmberg]

Just.

[Dave Nash]

He was. It was the wrong.

[John Holmberg]

Let's see how that goes.

[Dave Nash]

So I don't know why, but going.

[John Holmberg]

Back to no sense. Your original nonsense.

[Dave Nash]

Give me a reason.

[John Holmberg]

That might have been Belichick over Belichicking, but he is not the most. He's not the most overrated coach. Go back to pre Patriots and go watch that Browns team that got upended by their owner in the middle of the season. They were going to the super bowl. The Browns and then their owner in the middle of the season says, by the way, we're moving. And that was like November. This team. I think they ended up losing their last six or seven games. They didn't know what was going on. And that team was great. That was a very good football team in the late. Was that mid-90s when they moved and Belichick was the coach of that team, too. And they were good. And you can't. Yes, they were. They were a. They were. Before the season, people were picking the Browns to win the Super Bowl.

[Dave Nash]

Bella.

[John Holmberg]

Then he got weird with the Jets. We don't know what that was.

[Dale Hellstray]

Well, you know the coach for a day.

[John Holmberg]

For a day. He's like, I hate it here. I don't know how. And then that went away and he got the Patriots gig and history.

[Dave Nash]

Name me another coach that might have blown a Super bowl for a team. And then I'll say, okay, maybe it's a.

[Dale Hellstray]

How about Pete Carroll?

[John Holmberg]

Pete Carroll. Was it Dan Quinn and Kyle Shanahan?

[Dave Nash]

All right.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Maybe two.

[Dale Hellstray]

There's loads of Atlanta up 20.

[Dave Nash]

All right. What was more egregious. Pete Carroll.

[John Holmberg]

Pete Carroll was more egregious.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

That's the most egregiously stupid thing I've ever seen in a Super bowl period. Playing or not playing anyone.

[Dave Nash]

We were talking before about teams win, loss over, under for the year. Pete Carroll taking over a terrible Raider team. Is that an under?

[John Holmberg]

They're not as terrible as they were. I think they're better than they were.

[Dave Nash]

They're under. Over is seven and a half. So you think they're going to go 8 and 9 or better that division? In that division.

[Dale Hellstray]

Who's their quarterback?

[Dave Nash]

Geno Smith from Seattle.

[John Holmberg]

They're better than they were. I went to, I went to Vegas last year to watch the Steelers in Vegas play. Of course, it's 70,000 people in that stadium and 60,000. They gave away black and silver towels. You didn't see one. It was. They were all on the floor. I've got video of us leaving and I'm like, I've been to Hines Field now. Acreshire. I've never seen that many black and gold jerseys there. It was weird.

[Dave Nash]

How many times you've been to Vegas, Heinz.

[John Holmberg]

Five, probably. It's a great spot, but. And it's insane. But the point, like the Raiders are a better team than they were last year. They were all over the map. The coaching situation was weird. You had. What's Antonio?

[Dale Hellstray]

I want to say Gage. I do too.

[John Holmberg]

Pictures face too. But I mean the coach was, the coach was kind of there on an interim basis without actually being interim. And the quarterbacks were. They couldn't decide in the middle of the year who is it? O' Connell, is it?

[Dave Nash]

And they had no quarterback. I mean, come on.

[John Holmberg]

And you don't, you don't win without a quarterback. You don't. You don't do it.

[Dave Nash]

Totally agree.

[John Holmberg]

So are the Raiders better today than they were last year?

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah, I think they win last year. Six.

[John Holmberg]

Five.

[Dave Nash]

I think five.

[Dale Hellstray]

Okay.

[John Holmberg]

I give them seven or eight. That's a, that's a pretty tough under over.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Seven and a half.

[Dave Nash]

Well, generally most under overs are very tough. I was, I was talking about it with someone else. Fact that generally you don't go more than one or two games over.

[Dale Hellstray]

No, no, you're over.

[Dave Nash]

It's just, it's usually right in there.

[John Holmberg]

How much does a coach have to do with wins?

[Dale Hellstray]

Oh, I, I think it has a.

[John Holmberg]

Lot to do you think Pete Carroll adds to.

[Dale Hellstray]

Oh, I do. I, I, I think just the, the way that the locker room is going to have a Feel about it and direction and all that. Yeah. I would say he's worth two.

[John Holmberg]

Okay. And that puts him at seven.

[Dale Hellstray]

And now if the quarterback is better than what they last year, if Geno's.

[John Holmberg]

Worth one, that puts you at eight. That gives you the over.

[Dave Nash]

Sounds like you're going to the Super Bowls with you guys. I'd say, guys.

[John Holmberg]

I'd say eight wins is a fairly reasonable mark for the Raiders. I don't trust the Chargers to be. That's a team I don't bet on or against.

[Dave Nash]

That's a coach I like. I mean, where's Harbaugh coached where he didn't win.

[Dale Hellstray]

I can tell you about. I have personal feelings about. Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

You don't like.

[Dale Hellstray]

I, I, I can't stand him. But I've done a few of his persons as a person.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, right, right.

[Dale Hellstray]

Because I did a game when he was at San Francisco. I did a game when he's at Stanford now. Yeah. Having said that, I just soon throw a pot of boiling water in his face as a person. But you cannot argue him as a football coach.

[John Holmberg]

No.

[Dale Hellstray]

Because he wanted San Diego.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellstray]

Which is a non scholarship school. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

No, he, he's everywhere. He's gone.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Is he like you're saying? I don't have a beer with him. But you would have loved to have played with him.

[Dale Hellstray]

I, I would love to play for him. I didn't like him as a player. No.

[John Holmberg]

He was so intense. You did play against Captain Comeback. Yeah.

[Dale Hellstray]

Captain Douche.

[John Holmberg]

All right.

[Dale Hellstray]

No, I would not want to play with that.

[Dave Nash]

He's mad now.

[John Holmberg]

I'll tell you right now, if he heard that this fight between you and Harbaugh the under over is not in your favor either.

[Dave Nash]

Oh, yeah, it is.

[Dale Hellstray]

No.

[John Holmberg]

You think he beat up Harbaugh? Yeah.

[Dale Hellstray]

No way.

[John Holmberg]

He's my age.

[Dale Hellstray]

He doesn't move very good. Better than you do. Very good. Dale. Johnny.

[John Holmberg]

Okay, if it's just a foot race.

[Dale Hellstray]

No. A foot race.

[John Holmberg]

No, that's what I'm saying. He moves better than.

[Dale Hellstray]

Let's make it a small case.

[Dave Nash]

How do we go from a fight to a foot race?

[John Holmberg]

Because. Okay, if he's in a. Okay, if you're in a phone booth with him, maybe he got a shot.

[Dale Hellstray]

I got him.

[John Holmberg]

I'm not so sure. No, you, you are fragile. You're big and you're intimidated, but you're fragile. I got two weak spots. So you're. It's David and Goliath with you.

[Dale Hellstray]

I got two weeks. I have two weeks back to the.

[Dave Nash]

Reason why he hates your head and your knees from the story. I know. Is he. He was in those meetings that you're so concerned Tom Brady's winning something. And. And Har was like, you know, not giving him the time of day, which.

[John Holmberg]

I mean, if I should be used to it.

[Dave Nash]

Right. If I was talking with Dale, I wouldn't give him the time of day either.

[Dale Hellstray]

Did you think he remembers you? That's your job.

[John Holmberg]

That is your job.

[Dale Hellstray]

As that coach is sit down with the crew and tell them what?

[John Holmberg]

Who is your broadcast partner? What a nice guy you must be.

[Dave Nash]

And you're different than Harbor. Get out of here.

[John Holmberg]

I was gonna say, would he have the same opinion? But you don't even know who it was.

[Dale Hellstray]

No. Well, it was for Fox Sports.

[John Holmberg]

You don't have to think about this guy. Don't hurt my head. With your eyes going to the ceiling like that.

[Dale Hellstray]

You're gonna.

[John Holmberg]

You're gonna tip Joe Buck thinking that.

[Dave Nash]

Take over for Troy.

[John Holmberg]

That's it. Did everybody else leave going, whoa, yeah, everybody could.

[Dale Hellstray]

Well, actually, it was a phone.

[John Holmberg]

Oh.

[Dale Hellstray]

Interview.

[John Holmberg]

Maybe you read it wrong.

[Dale Hellstray]

And I just. I asked him three questions. He was a complete ass.

[John Holmberg]

Maybe he's having a tough day.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah, but you put on an act.

[Dave Nash]

Maybe Butler was screwing his wife.

[John Holmberg]

Malcolm Butler's banging everybody's life.

[Dale Hellstray]

And so I just said, all right, guys, I'm gone. And my producer and the play. I'm playing Kyler. You can't hang on. You can't hang up. I said, yes, I get. He ain't doing anything.

[John Holmberg]

That's. Yeah, that's ridiculous. So, yeah, back to the original question. Do the Raiders better now?

[Dale Hellstray]

I don't.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. Again, the Chargers. Who knows that division?

[Dave Nash]

I love the coach, but listen, Chargers lost their best offensive lineman.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yes, that's true.

[Dave Nash]

Oh, and that's just sad.

[John Holmberg]

That's tough.

[Dave Nash]

But. But they're still going to be competitive in every game because of Harbaugh. But. But I tell you what. I don't know. I don't know if their win loss slipped after they lost that guy, but.

[John Holmberg]

Just kind of look at the Chargers as a team that you don't want to play, but you're not afraid of them in the end.

[Dave Nash]

Justin Hebert.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, that's. I mean, it's. It's Herbert.

[Dale Hellstray]

I'm sorry.

[John Holmberg]

Hey, Bear's the old friendship. Billy Joe spelled the same. It's incredible. Yeah, it's Herbert.

[Dale Hellstray]

And then you got Denver, though. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

But everybody looks past the obvious in that division. There's the Chiefs, and they Sit right on top and they're like overlook us again. And, and that's what everybody does is they're going to oh, this is the year the Chiefs fall and I think they are definitely on the decline just.

[Dale Hellstray]

Like us because they lost.

[Dave Nash]

Nothing. Maybe they're on the downfall.

[John Holmberg]

They got, they got beat by a better team last year.

[Dave Nash]

They didn't get beat.

[John Holmberg]

They got and their weaknesses whipped. But their weaknesses have been addressed which were outside offensive linemen. They went out and shorted up. They did a good job getting everything back together on the offensive line which is first play last year in the Super Bowl. The Eagles are like let's see if they did anything about this. And they just blew it up.

[Dale Hellstray]

Well, you know fascinating when you mentioned that because most people don't understand and that's not. I'm not talking down to people. Yeah, but they know but, but they.

[Dave Nash]

Harbaugh no one keep going but they.

[Dale Hellstray]

Move their Pro bowl left gu. Yeah. Out to left tackle.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, it's totally different.

[Dale Hellstray]

Well you're left guard, left tackle. What's the difference? Well, is a huge difference. After playing guard you got so much space to cover and all that. And then what I always got chuckle of everybody going, oh, Philadelphia sold Kansas City. No, they just had four dudes up front who killed well last year.

[John Holmberg]

And the rookies that they had, I mean Carter comes on, the rookie that they got just became one of the top seven or eight defensive linemen in football, which you hit on him. And Cooper Dejon in the back. You got two rookies that are playing all pro level. That made that defense almost unstoppable. And also the Chiefs weakness which wasn't just like gosh, we found that out in the Super Bowl. We knew that the whole year.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Going through most of the year, like they've got to do something about these edges here. They're in trouble. And then they knew or they wouldn't have moved their guard out there in the first place. They knew what was going on and it got exploited by a better team. Doesn't mean the Chiefs were bad. They got beat by a better team. I mean look at your Cowboys back in the 90s. Those Bills teams were extraordinary. You were better in every place that they weren't and it. And it showed, I mean ridiculously by the score. But just the performance when you just know two boxers can be pretty. Even if one's got the advantage in one spot, it's going to look one sided.

[Dale Hellstray]

Well the thing is those games against the Bills back in the 90s the Bills never turned the ball over five times in a game.

[John Holmberg]

No.

[Dale Hellstray]

And now, son, against us, they turn the ball over five times. Well, I mean, that's freakish, you know, and things like. So you never know about one game. But Philadelphia's front four was really, really good last year. Now the Cardinals got one of them.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, yeah, that's. There's some. There's something special going on there.

[Dave Nash]

Speaking of that Pennsylvania team over there.

[John Holmberg]

Which one?

[Dave Nash]

Well, you're probably rooting for the wrong one because the Eagles, they draft up front. Does anyone draft better up front than the Eagles?

[John Holmberg]

Andy.

[Dave Nash]

That's how you win football.

[John Holmberg]

Andy Weidel was the assistant gm time with the Eagles. The Steelers have him now and they've got him. And his philosophy was, the more picks I have, the more throws I have at the dartboard.

[Dale Hellstray]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

And he said, the Jerry Jones, Jimmy Johnson philosophy, you give me 14 picks, I'm going to try to hit eight. Missing six on a draft normally stinks, but if you've got 13 or 14 picks stockpiled and you hit seven or eight, that's seven or eight new players on your roster. They're going to make a difference. That's huge. So the philosophy the Eagles have had over the years, which is as many as we can get work in volume, and we're not going to have superstars, but we're maybe. But we're going to. We're going to get a group of five. And they did it again this year. If you look at the Eagles draft, they got four, five picks in a row on defense because they lost so many players on defense. And they went and replaced them in five straight picks in the draft. Not to mention they had guys there as backups that are ready to go. So that is a strong philosophy when you've got your power positions all covered.

[Dale Hellstray]

Well, what's interesting is when I, when I think about to the Cowboys, I saw this recently, the Herschel Walker trade. Yeah. And how many actual draft picks were given to the Cowboys?

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[Dale Hellstray]

It was astronomical.

[John Holmberg]

Silly.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, there are two or three ones or a couple twos or some threes. And then what Jimmy did, which nobody.

[John Holmberg]

Had ever done, then he traded away.

[Dale Hellstray]

For more, was the players that were included in the trade, they also had a draft pick attached to them always. And so if you cut them now, you get a fourth round pick, they cut this guy, it's a fifth round pick. And it was just, you know, you hit on a hell of stray, you miss on somebody else.

[John Holmberg]

There's a weird thing too. As far as gambling goes, it is.

[Dale Hellstray]

It's.

[John Holmberg]

It's never not happened that when a team StockPiles picks within three or four years, they win the championship. The Oklahoma City Thunder just did it. Yeah. And they still have.

[Dave Nash]

Well, they. Yeah, they've been doing it for.

[John Holmberg]

That's true.

[Dave Nash]

Forever.

[John Holmberg]

That's an insane thing. But it took them to five years ago to say, all right, we need 40 picks and we're just going to get as many guys as we can and find the chemistry. Because if you're just working with 20, you can fight. You get 40, you're like, you said, get a player. Give me a pick. Give me a player. Give me a pick. Next thing you know, you're hoisting a trophy and you've still got picks coming. And now you're in a salary cap benefit because you don't have to pay everybody because you know you've got plenty of places to replace. Football's the same way the Eagles. The Eagles. Cowboys started that, but the Eagles perfected it in the modern era because nobody's doing that. I mean, you look at teams like the Browns that are constantly trading away, running into more trades, and I've always said a team that's got two or three picks in the first round is doomed. Their window closes in four years because they're not going to be able to afford if the worst thing can happen as you hit on four picks in the first two rounds.

[Dale Hellstray]

Right. Because then you got to pay them.

[John Holmberg]

You can't pay. I mean, the Bengals are in it right now.

[Promo Announcer]

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[John Holmberg]

I mean, the Bengals have.

[Dale Hellstray]

Now they're going to trade Tre Hendrickson. Yeah. Trey Henderson.

[John Holmberg]

That's the best thing they can do because they paid two wide receivers and their quarterback. And now they don't have any money for a defense, which is where they were weak. They could have afforded to lose T. Higgins, who, by the way, had the dumbest quote of the history of quotes last week when he said, they said, don't you think that, you know, starting off strong is more important because you guys in the Zach Taylor era, they don't start strong. They're owing to most years, one and one every once in a while. And he's like, oh, there's too much pressure on starting strong. I'd rather.

[Dave Nash]

Oh my God, I'd rather be 0 and 8. So no one cares about us and we can win late.

[John Holmberg]

You go back and look at that. If they'd have won one of those games that they were 0 and 2 in the last three years, they're in.

[Dave Nash]

The playoffs because they just missed last year.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. And they came on strong at the end. And then you can look back and go, those first two games now your Cowboys did it.

[Dale Hellstray]

Well, I can tell you when I played for the Cowboys, Jimmy stressed those early season games.

[John Holmberg]

Huge.

[Dale Hellstray]

Because the fact that. And nobody looks at it this way, you win a game in September, that means you don't have to win one in December.

[John Holmberg]

You've got room to wiggle.

[Dale Hellstray]

Room, Wiggle room.

[John Holmberg]

And the scary part is, is that when you do lose, and this is true in every sport, you start slow. You're fighting all year.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

You're. You fall behind. You expend so much energy fighting back.

[Dale Hellstray]

I. I'm so, I'm tell. I'm going to tell you the story real quick. So we won the Super bowl in 92 and everything was magical.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellstray]

It's just like a magic carpet ride. Nobody expected us to be there. Some were 14 and two were a candlestick. I don't even think we thought we were gonna win. Yeah. And boom, we went. We're in the super bowl. And then we blow out the Bills in the super bowl. And then we come back to the next year. Well, now Emmett starts his contracts up, so he's He's a holdout. He doesn't sign for the first two games. He's playing hardball with Jerry. Kind of like Micah Parsons.

[John Holmberg]

Like everybody.

[Dale Hellstray]

And we started. We started off 02 and our offensive line coach Hudson, Alex. Trying to tell us this. This dude from Pittsburgh. I forget his name now. Running back is just as good as Emmett. And we're like, you're such an idiot. Stop.

[John Holmberg]

And that's more proof how good that line was.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Is not as important as people think. Emmett had to be there too.

[Dale Hellstray]

Y start up vote 2 so then the entire season was a fricking grind. We had to beat the New York Giants in the last game of the season. That went to overtime in New York to win the division.

[John Holmberg]

That was at 13:10 game or something.

[Dave Nash]

Yes.

[Dale Hellstray]

We kicked the field goal in overtime with a great snap from hell straight. And we won that game. And then that gave us a buy.

[Dave Nash]

I was disappointed in that game because I was waiting for them to show you throwing the ball up.

[John Holmberg]

It was pretty amazing.

[Dave Nash]

And you never went there and did.

[Dale Hellstray]

Your film this one lefty.

[John Holmberg]

And then he fires up. But yeah. And I. But you also forget in that time that that division you were in.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

Was the one that sent super bowl teams every year.

[Dale Hellstray]

It was the Redskins, Giants, Dallas.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. And it.

[Dale Hellstray]

That's.

[John Holmberg]

It was crazy. And I'm at. The Cardinals were in there still then, right?

[Dale Hellstray]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. And that was back when those teams were going to the super bowl every year. So it wasn't like your 0 and 2 start was like, ah, it doesn't matter. Like the way the Chiefs have been. The Chiefs have had lulls in the season and still were fine.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

You. You start slow. It'. Especially with the Bengals with T. Higgins saying that against the Ravens. Who are the best team in the division. The Steelers, who are always. Everybody wants to discount them. They'll be there. They'll mess you up if you have two dumb losses. And that's a Steeler problem too. Usually. Look at their schedule through the year. Like, how did you lose those two games? And it hurts them. And then the Browns, who I don't think are going to be good, but can get in your way. That's a quarterback.

[Dale Hellstray]

They're not going 0 and 17. No.

[John Holmberg]

And they're good.

[Dale Hellstray]

They're going to win five or six games.

[John Holmberg]

They beat the Ravens last year with Jameis Winston.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

I mean they. They will get in your way. They have enough ability. But you say stuff like that and then you're like, you know, there's the Bengals with their two wide outs getting paid 70 million. Their quarterback getting paid. So it's 130 million of a 230 million dollar cap.

[Dave Nash]

Ridiculous.

[John Holmberg]

The whole team can't get paid.

[Dave Nash]

You know, I want to step in there and say, I think Cleveland, they're. They're under over. Is only five and a half wins this year. I love them to go over. I love them to go over. Flacco, listen, the guy, the guy wins.

[John Holmberg]

No, he doesn't.

[Dave Nash]

And guy wins spot starts. And if he's not. And if he. And if he starts losing, listen, I think you can throw any of those clowns behind him in there and same thing.

[Dale Hellstray]

Well, they got about seven. Back to the volume argument.

[Dave Nash]

I'll give you this choice. Any one of those guys or Deshaun Watson, who would you rather have?

[John Holmberg]

Oh, you can't.

[Dave Nash]

Well, so what I'm saying is you are improving. Really?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. Desean Watson on talent is better than almost everyone on that roster.

[Dale Hellstray]

Huh?

[Dave Nash]

I didn't notice that last year.

[John Holmberg]

No, because he's.

[Dave Nash]

I didn't notice that the year before.

[John Holmberg]

I'm saying from a, From a look at him as a quarterback, you know, but he's got some stuff going on. You don't want all the baggage with Deshaun Watson, but, man, if he could shake that, which is impossible, you got the best quarterback on your roster and DeSean Watson, the other guys.

[Dave Nash]

Look, if Cleveland's smart, they, there's, there's the problem.

[John Holmberg]

You can stop right there, okay? Because as a franchise, they're going to Cleveland. They're going to always Cleveland. Brown's going to Brown.

[Dave Nash]

When, When Deshaun Watson says, hey, send me a airline ticket to Cleveland, I'm ready to go. They should send the airline ticket to, like, Alaska.

[John Holmberg]

If desean Watson says I'm ready to play, I'm putting him in. Oh, I'm not paying somebody that kind of money to sit around and tell me I need 5 other quarterbacks try to replace him.

[Dave Nash]

I wish I had a favorite team so I could push you to be a general manager of the rival team. Because that's asinine.

[John Holmberg]

That is not as if with that roster of quarterbacks, you don't give desean Watson the ball.

[Dave Nash]

No, only I wouldn't give him all the crap. I wouldn't give him a rattle or a baby bonnet. I wouldn't do anything.

[John Holmberg]

Why are we dressing him like a baby? Because what kind of fancy do you have about. Is that what he used to get with the massages? Address him as a baby and swaddle him.

[Dave Nash]

I wouldn't trust him with anything except maybe a child's toy.

[John Holmberg]

Okay, that's it. Geez, that's weird. Choking hazard.

[Dave Nash]

Child toy or masseuse? One or the other. That's the only thing I'm really thinking. I really think he's going to be okay with.

[John Holmberg]

He's pretty trustworthy with masseuses. Like the. The words.

[Dave Nash]

He knows what he's doing.

[John Holmberg]

Well, I think he's good. I think he stopped. He's free. It's like, that's enough. That cost me enough. But still, hey, maybe that was.

[Dave Nash]

Hey, you know, Popeye had his spinach. You know, Sean Watson, Maybe masseuses was suspicious.

[John Holmberg]

Tiger woods needed Perkins waitresses.

[Dave Nash]

That's right.

[John Holmberg]

Took those away from him.

[Dave Nash]

Look what happened. Dan wants it in the trees.

[Dale Hellstray]

What do you do if you're a lady masseuse and all of a sudden you get a phone call, hey, this Sean Watson.

[John Holmberg]

You say no, or you jerk him off and take your millions. He can call me. I'm gonna go help you out.

[Dave Nash]

Deshawn, I'm gonna be honest. I haven't had too many massages. But.

[John Holmberg]

But most people turn you down, right?

[Dave Nash]

I'm not arguing that. But. But if you. I just think because I don't go. That. That if you go to masseuse, maybe that that might be discussed. Like, hey, how about a little of this? How about. How about a little happy ending before I go?

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

I don't know how it happened.

[Dave Nash]

Happens, and. Right. So I don't know. Okay. That's a good wink. It was a good wink under the table. I got you.

[John Holmberg]

I thought about it for a second.

[Dave Nash]

I won't make. I won't bring it up for you.

[John Holmberg]

I'm not against it. I'm just saying I don't know how it happened.

[Dave Nash]

All right, so. Right. So the point is, if. If he. It's not like he forced them to put their hands on did though. Did he?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Okay, then that's a different story. Yeah, but. But it just sounded like, hey, he.

[John Holmberg]

He. He.

[Dave Nash]

He requested that, and they were offended.

[John Holmberg]

He pushed in ways you can't push. And that's like. Well, it's just that thing, like, if a girl volunteers for it, I'm sure that. I'm sure there's plenty we haven't heard from that we're like, okay, sure, no problem.

[Dave Nash]

Hey, maybe he's.

[John Holmberg]

Professional Mistakes feel like they were.

[Dave Nash]

They were totally against it. Hey, listen, when I was young, I said, hey, you want to go out with Me and almost all women said, no way.

[John Holmberg]

Right. But then you didn't take them out anyway.

[Dave Nash]

Well, no, but I. But I wouldn't stop trying. I'm like, well, yeah, sure.

[John Holmberg]

I mean, perseverance is different than force.

[Dave Nash]

Hey, did he. Did he. Did he hold them down?

[John Holmberg]

He got erections and moved their hands toward it, which is what you probably did on dates, which is why you're defending this.

[Dave Nash]

All right, next up.

[John Holmberg]

All right. See how good. I should have been a lawyer? I walked him right there. You're convicted.

[Dave Nash]

No comment.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. But back to the Browns being the Browns. Their quarterback situation is their problem. But you got. You got dumb moves there with the Bengals. That probably will start slow, because if they're not going to have Hendrickson out there and they're not going to do that, that division will eat you alive. Fast. Real fast. But the beginning of their schedule is favorable. But they have to. They have to. They have to score 40 points a game to win that team. That's the over. Under I'd look at right there is the Cincinnati Bengals. And I take the under because I think everybody's hyped them at about 10, right. I guess nine again, I'd say that defense is going to be a huge liability if your offense isn't perfect. And God forbid anybody gets hurt.

[Dave Nash]

And their base cover under is nine and a half. So they'd have to get to 10.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

And in that conference, I'll tell you this.

[John Holmberg]

I mean, 10 is reasonable if they're perfect. And that defense has to be a complete surprise. But sitting here in September, I'm going against that.

[Dave Nash]

When you look at teams and schedules and figure out, okay, where's the wins at? They also play the. The North.

[John Holmberg]

You're.

[Dave Nash]

You're. You're. Pittsburgh.

[John Holmberg]

Steelers.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Also play the AFC East.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Which I would think, other than the Bills or nfc, they play the afc. AFC East.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, that's. Yeah. Okay.

[Dave Nash]

And then they'll play the NFC north, which is difficult. They're going to have their hands full there. But against the east, you can almost say, listen, I look at the east, and other than the Bills, and if you want to. If you want to put a whole bunch of money to win a couple bucks on the Bills winning the East, I don't see anyone else there except a big surprise for me. I think it's going to be New England. I think with Drake may a year under his belt, he's going to take a step up. He's going to be much better, and he's actually going to have a competent coach in Mike Vrabel. And they're. I would tell you right now if I could bet it. If there was a bet where you know who's going to come in second in the AFC East. I'm throwing money on New England Patriots right now.

[John Holmberg]

That's not a bad bet.

[Dave Nash]

No, right now.

[John Holmberg]

But I mean, you look at that also. I mean, I'm looking at that. Like you said, look for the wins with the Bengals at nine and a half. Also you got the AFC east and the nfc, NFC North.

[Dave Nash]

So they got the Lions, Packers, Packers, Vikings. Yeah, that's a.

[John Holmberg]

Those are the two best divisions, I think as far as.

[Dave Nash]

All totally agree. So that's, that's a tough, that's a tough road to.

[John Holmberg]

Real tough.

[Dave Nash]

If you start all of those teams in the AFC North.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, no, no. The north is going to, the north is going to either fold and let the Bills and Chiefs have the super bowl again or the team that comes.

[Dave Nash]

Out of that, someone's getting out of there.

[John Holmberg]

If anybody gets out of there with home field advantage, that's the best team in football because. Because of who you're playing.

[Dave Nash]

How much do you think home field advantage is important? I actually looked this up last year. Not, not in the playoffs, but last year the home team won 18 more times than the road team.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Well, there's also, I mean, if you're talking about the whole season, a lot of bad.

[Dave Nash]

Talking about the whole season, why bad.

[John Holmberg]

Teams have to host teams, teams.

[Dave Nash]

All right, so they're going to lose, but good teams at home, they're going to, they're going to beat up on everybody.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. It seems like that's going to balance out. You start looking at home field in the playoffs. It's, it's a, it's a, it's devastating for the home team to lose a game. It's very rare.

[Dave Nash]

Didn't your Pittsburgh Steelers make it to the super bowl one year as a wild card team? So they were on the road.

[John Holmberg]

There's only been two in the super bowl era have done that. And the Steelers were first and that was in 2005.

[Dave Nash]

Okay.

[John Holmberg]

And then the packers did it again four years later.

[Dale Hellstray]

Okay.

[John Holmberg]

That's it.

[Dave Nash]

So you don't think it's we're due. You don't think we're due.

[John Holmberg]

You just don't get in there without at least a home game. You, I mean, it's important to have a home game in the playoffs. You travel, you do. I mean now 17 game seasons and you got to run three on the road. Even a good team running three straight on the roads during the season is hard to do.

[Dale Hellstray]

Right.

[Dave Nash]

I'll ask Dale because, I mean, we've had this conversation. Really. Is it home field or is it matchups? Because, Dale, you talked. Tell the story about your heyday when you guys played the Niners and the Packers.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah. You know, again, I think the matchup was so weird. We dominated the Packers. Yeah. We didn't lose to them, but they all had to come to Dallas.

[John Holmberg]

Right.

[Dale Hellstray]

Whether it's regular season or postseason. I think we were 6, 7 and oh against them. 49ers, whether we were playing there or in Dallas, probably about 500 against them. And because the matchup was much tough. Yeah. For us, we had Green Bay's number even with Farve. Reggie White. We still have more. More talent. Right. Skill guys than they did.

[John Holmberg]

You had every skill position.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

Name the running back for the Packers.

[Dale Hellstray]

You could.

[John Holmberg]

Don't remember.

[Dale Hellstray]

You couldn't. Right. But now San Francisco.

[Dave Nash]

Paul Horning.

[John Holmberg]

That's a little earlier, but it would have been just as memorable.

[Dale Hellstray]

We just. We just knew when we were playing Green Bay that we're gonna win. We knew we were playing San Francisco. It would be a dog fight. And whoever actually played the best that day actually won the. Won the football game. We lost our chair. Yeah. Against up against San Francisco.

[Dave Nash]

So I'm more concerned about matchups and I think getting in the playoffs. I think Baltimore is very concerned with a matchup with anyone that has a pulse because they just can't play in the playoffs.

[John Holmberg]

They play. I mean, they. They so. And I hate the Ravens, so you.

[Dave Nash]

Should be happy about that.

[John Holmberg]

I am happy.

[Dave Nash]

They cannot get.

[John Holmberg]

They'll find a way to get in their own way. And it was one dropped pass last year that was, I mean, by one of the best tight ends, the Jackie Smith of the new generation.

[Dale Hellstray]

And most people don't remember Jackie Smith, hall of Fame tight end who famously dropped a pass.

[John Holmberg]

Isn't he in the ring of honor of both the Cardinals and the Cowboys?

[Dale Hellstray]

He's not in the ring.

[Dave Nash]

He should be in the Steelers. That's what I meant.

[John Holmberg]

14 at the time. It was no good.

[Dave Nash]

Tied it.

[John Holmberg]

No, no, no, no. They weren't that close. The Steelers had that game quiet down there.

[Dale Hellstray]

I think it would have tied it.

[John Holmberg]

No, no, no, no. They weren't that close.

[Dale Hellstray]

It wouldn't.

[John Holmberg]

It would have tied it in the end if. Because they only lost by 7, they were chasing a 12 to 14 point deficit. Most of that happened, but true but.

[Dale Hellstray]

He'S in the hall of Fame.

[John Holmberg]

He's in the hall of Fame and he's.

[Dave Nash]

Yes, he is.

[Dale Hellstray]

He.

[John Holmberg]

Remember, Mark Andrews will be the same if they don't get a championship. That's going to be the. Oh, remember when Mark Andrews drop. There's a great meme on the Internet that goes around right now of a very cute college girl that said, which one of the. Or who in this room has F'd the entire football team? And the girls all laugh. And then it just goes, hi, I'm Mark Andrews of the Baltimore Ravens. And I'm like, oh, my God. They cut. They cut to him introducing himself somewhere else. I'm like, wow, this dude's legacy is Internet cement. And again, nothing makes me happier than the Raven student. I also am not stupid. And I watch them and I go, they're so good.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And I can watch that ball bounce off of Mark Andrews hands over and over and over again. And I hope it happens to him.

[Dale Hellstray]

Again and you don't feel bad.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, Dale, If I had the flexibility, I'd show you how good I feel about it. It's. It had everything to do with the Steelers.

[Dale Hellstray]

No, Steelers were out.

[John Holmberg]

They bounced them. Yeah, you don't want that team going on. Steelers got beat by the Ravens.

[Dale Hellstray]

Don't you want that team to win?

[John Holmberg]

No, I want that. The Ravens.

[Dale Hellstray]

We lost to the champions.

[John Holmberg]

No, I want. I don't want to ever associate the Ravens and champions in the same. If I learn you're a Ravens fan while we're talking, the friendship's over. I'm not going. We have nothing from September to probably the middle of January. Let's be honest. We have no reason to be friends.

[Dave Nash]

We're not. I'm not a Ravens fan, but I'm starting. I'm trying to. Trying to get there now. Not at all.

[John Holmberg]

Go ahead. Then we'll. This is. Then we'll be the Dale and John show and we'll talk about that lunatic that used to come in here. Yeah, it's just. It can't be done. So I look at that. The Ravens are another over. Under. With that schedule that I'd look at, they're probably at 11, 10 and a half.

[Dave Nash]

I'd guess ravens are at 11 and a half.

[John Holmberg]

No way. Under.

[Dave Nash]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

Under. I kind of agree with that because anything that goes wrong there is. Is paralyzed. An injury and 11. Eleven and a half's the bet. The bets I would take are the good teams with too high a number. The Chiefs are another one. I'd probably Bet over, under on. Because they're probably 10.

[Dave Nash]

They're. They're actually 11 and a half.

[John Holmberg]

Also under.

[Dave Nash]

I agree. I'll tell you this. And you can get like super good odds. They. They can. You can be three or four games under that. Under over. You get super good odds. And if you really want to take a shot and make some money, take a shot on Buffalo.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

Or Baltimore or Washington because they have three running quarterbacks that can get hurt. And when those guys go down, you got nothing.

[John Holmberg]

No, it's. It's over. And that's true of almost every team. You lose the quarterback, it all goes away. There's very few that. And it's all a shock.

[Dave Nash]

No. Cleveland lost to Sean Watson. I think they were a better team. So we'll get right back to that.

[Dale Hellstray]

Although I will tell you this.

[John Holmberg]

They got him back.

[Dale Hellstray]

I watched some of that Cardinal preseason game and, and Brissette, he looked okay. He looked okay. But I'm saying he can come in and win you a couple games.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, spot starts. They've got a good backup. I worry for the Cardinals depth though, because that game was one drive and then, you know, Keystone Cops, like, they looked bad. That back end looked bad.

[Dave Nash]

Well, let me ask Dale, because it just looked like they didn't want to be there.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

How many times does that happen?

[Dale Hellstray]

Well, like I said, I've in. In our last show. He didn't want to see. It's a game. I'll give the ball. You don't want to be there.

[John Holmberg]

To be out there watching. A lot of. We all obviously have watched a lot. Who is standing out in the pre. What's the shocker in preseason so far for. Do you guys have anybody stand other than the 70 yard field goal that kid from the Jags hit last week against the Steelers? 70 yarder to end the half. That should count. You're a special teams guy. That's not going to count.

[Dale Hellstray]

No.

[John Holmberg]

As a record.

[Dale Hellstray]

No.

[John Holmberg]

That should count. For kickers. 70 yard field.

[Dale Hellstray]

What's fascinating to me is will they do that in the regular season?

[John Holmberg]

No.

[Dale Hellstray]

You know, but.

[Dave Nash]

Well, I do it if. If. And the Jags will have a chance because they'll get the ball late in the half or the end of the game.

[John Holmberg]

And you don't have to even jump to block that. That's whizzing past the top of your head at 70 yards. Those guys. The fact that got past anybody on the line is. Is the Steelers special teams should be ashamed of themselves.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah. Cause obviously you got to drive it.

[John Holmberg]

Has to start at the center's ass. And that thing went 70 yards. A kid has a leg, but that's the time.

[Dave Nash]

I don't want to be a launch.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, man. That's one right there. That is surgery. That is a rupture.

[Dave Nash]

Can someone eradic the football inside of me?

[John Holmberg]

Oh, I think you just keep it. It's so deep. It's not even going to hurt.

[Dale Hellstray]

Okay.

[John Holmberg]

Who in. Who in the. Dale. Who. In the preseason. Have you seen that? You're like, oh, this is an interesting storyline. Kind of developed Cowboys, you think? No, no, not at all. That's been. Well, Jerry Jones, of course, says he loves that it's a soap opera.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah. He loves controversy. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

He said it out loud. I like controversy.

[Dale Hellstray]

And I think I've told both of you the fact that the one thing about Jerry is he doesn't care if you talk good about him. Him. Yeah. Or bad about him as long as you're talking about him.

[John Holmberg]

But you're talking about him because of him.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

That's different now.

[Dale Hellstray]

And do you realize that they are the longest running NFC team who's not been to a conference championship?

[John Holmberg]

To a conference.

[Dave Nash]

And after the Lions.

[John Holmberg]

And in fairness, they should have been because of the Des. Bryant.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Catch.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah, but, but. But the actual. The rules. Yeah, whatever. Whatever. They. They have not been to have been. Bottom line is they haven't got since 1990. It's amazing to me that. And you guys don't appreciate me enough that, you know, we win three Super Bowls, we go to a ton of playoff games. I leave. Things go to hell. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

No, you know what?

[Dale Hellstray]

I. I played SMU. We. We have great success.

[John Holmberg]

Two reasons.

[Dale Hellstray]

We finished top 10 all four years. I'm there. Number two was our highest. Yeah. I leave, they get death penalty.

[Dave Nash]

So what I'm.

[Dale Hellstray]

What I'm telling me really, is it hella stray.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, you are steroids. Everything that happens, there's a spike and then you leave and it's like, what happened? What kind of drugs were they on?

[Dave Nash]

So he's not really an athlete. Player. He's just a leprechaun.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, he's a gigantic leprechaun.

[Dave Nash]

He's just a leprechaun.

[John Holmberg]

He's like elf. You say that.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah. He's looking at me like he doesn't even know what that is.

[Promo Announcer]

You know what a leprechaun is?

[Dale Hellstray]

The facts are the facts.

[John Holmberg]

You couldn't spell it.

[Dale Hellstray]

I mean. I mean, Troy and Michael were in Dallas before I was. They didn't do diddly Squat.

[John Holmberg]

Could you spell leprechaun? L, E, P. You're doing good.

[Dave Nash]

I'm gonna be honest, I can't even spell.

[John Holmberg]

Yes, you can. Yes, you can.

[Dale Hellstray]

No. Lep. Lepra. Lepr.

[John Holmberg]

He's going. Hold on.

[Dave Nash]

That's what they teach in smu.

[John Holmberg]

Our first mistake. Ooh. Twice on the. We only have vowels to work here.

[Dale Hellstray]

What would be the next letter?

[John Holmberg]

You just said it.

[Dale Hellstray]

I, E. Well, I said A and.

[John Holmberg]

You let me make sure I'm right. Now, hold on.

[Dale Hellstray]

That's got me confused.

[John Holmberg]

That's got me all bad because you're.

[Dale Hellstray]

Giving me this eyeball and he's looking on his phone.

[Dave Nash]

Oh, wait.

[John Holmberg]

Okay. It is E. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I got ahead of myself.

[Dale Hellstray]

All right, all right. L, A, P, R, E. C, H.

[John Holmberg]

A, N. Oh, there's a U. A, U, N. We almost had it, really.

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[John Holmberg]

Yeah. Leprechaun.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

All right. Just. Just making sure. Nash, who's your preseason like, whoa, what's going on here?

[Dave Nash]

Well, I liked him going in and. And I like. I said I really like the Giants, and I think Jackson Dart's going to be a really good find for the Giants.

[John Holmberg]

The same as. And. And what is that going to do up there in New York? Because Jackson Dart pushing Russell Wilson is probably a good thing, but when do you trust the rookie with a team that's not going to be a Super bowl contender? I think I agree with you completely. Jackson darts, the one that's raising all the eyebrows and was a guy that everybody was like, he might be something. Like he played down there in the sec. He was. He Was a guy who played the best talent in college and he. And he looked good doing it.

[Dave Nash]

He's a big guy that can throw, that can move, that can run. He's done it in college and on an interesting team.

[John Holmberg]

I mean, Ole Miss was good.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

But they weren't good enough to topple the big boys. But they played with them and because of him, they look pretty good points.

[Dave Nash]

Last year they were in the top 10.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

And their last couple years, I mean, they're just on the verge. They just probably couldn't. You know, they're just not solid all the way across their line.

[Dale Hellstray]

Let me tell you, when you put Jackson Dart in. Yeah. You let Russell Wilson go ahead and start the season.

[John Holmberg]

Season.

[Dale Hellstray]

Because you open up with the commanders. You got the Cowboys and you got the Chiefs, then you got the Chargers, but then you got the Saints. Oh, I think Saints were you. Is where you.

[John Holmberg]

Well, what if you come out of that four and one?

[Dale Hellstray]

Well, then you don't.

[John Holmberg]

You don't touch it.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah. But if you come out 1 and 3 or 1 and 4, I don't.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah. I don't think him.

[Dale Hellstray]

That sound schedule.

[Dave Nash]

Who does? Giants. Yeah. Because. And we were talking about teams because they.

[Dale Hellstray]

Because they have the Saints and they have Eagles, Broncos, Eagles, 49ers, Bears, Packers, Lions.

[John Holmberg]

I don't ever. I go back to. And it was the goof in Pittsburgh in 2004 when Tommy Maddox got hurt and Ben Roethlisberger was going to get rolled in. And the offensive line knew that this was a good quality defense that had a chance with an offense that if it just stayed in its lane. And they were pretty prolific with Tommy Maddox, they got a rookie in there. And I think it was Alan Fanigan that said, no, I'm not excited about having a rookie at quarterback. It's. This is not what we play. This is not good. The rest of the team, he had to be great to win them over. They weren't excited about that. So I think in those situations, if you go to Jackson Dart and the team's okay.

[Dale Hellstray]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

You've got yourself a huge problem because some of these people. You're going to divide the camp. The Wilson people, we should have never done. Then you start getting. Brian Dabel starts getting the questions. He doesn't need questions.

[Dale Hellstray]

I just don't know how popular Russell Wilson is.

[John Holmberg]

Well, in Pittsburgh, it was weird because Justin Fields was very popular.

[Dale Hellstray]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

When Russell took the field early in the season, everybody's like, oh, Justin's four and two, Justin's four and Two, throw Russell out there. And everybody was, oh, there's a difference. Yeah, you just saw the difference.

[Dale Hellstray]

Now.

[John Holmberg]

They faded at the end of the year, and Russell did what Russell does, and I just don't think they had the ability to be a great offense, but they weren't going to do it with Justin Fields. Everything felt like an uphill ice climb with Justin Fields. And he's just good enough to get you there.

[Dale Hellstray]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

Russell was like, we got this. Everything was a little easier. Everything looked smoother. I think Russell's time in the league is going to be showing. Jackson Dart, that's a great first year. And if I'm a Giants fan, I'm like, I don't want Jackson Dart on the field this year at all. Because if he's out there and they stink, you're going to go put them behind a team that stinks and he's going to learn nothing but bad habits. Or if they're good and they put them in there. Now you've divided the entire team.

[Dale Hellstray]

Well, the thing is, is he more Troy aikman, who went 1 on 11.

[John Holmberg]

As a starter, but you let him get beat up.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah, but.

[John Holmberg]

But again, do they have the draft capital that the Cowboys had to risk?

[Dale Hellstray]

That, probably not.

[John Holmberg]

And did anybody think Troy Aikman was going to be that they knew he'd be really good. But, I mean, like you said, they.

[Dave Nash]

Obviously didn't because they were putting their eggs. And also in Steve Walsh.

[John Holmberg]

Steve Walsh. Jimmy Johnson didn't want Troy.

[Dale Hellstray]

Right.

[John Holmberg]

So, I mean, it's a weird kind of like, yeah, we'll let him beat him up. So I look at the Russell Wilson thing, like, if I'm a Giants fan, don't get too excited with Jackson Dart this year. Your future looks good. Yeah, like, because that kid is great. And the other one is the Williams guy. Is that the guy? The Georgia defensive end, he. He's exploit, like, just in camps. I haven't seen games with him, but I'm just. Everything I've heard about that guy's like. Like, he's going to be this year's Carter for Philadelphia was like, just trust me.

[Dale Hellstray]

Right?

[John Holmberg]

We put him out there. You're going to notice it. Four or five weeks in, he's going to be.

[Dave Nash]

I didn't watch the game films you sent to me or something.

[Dale Hellstray]

I didn't.

[John Holmberg]

You didn't watch any of the films?

[Dave Nash]

Come on.

[John Holmberg]

I thought we were doing a podcast about football. You're not going to pay attention.

[Dave Nash]

I'm sorry.

[Dale Hellstray]

Come on.

[Dave Nash]

I wasn't concentrating. On defensive ends?

[Dale Hellstray]

No. Well, you got spent all this time writing down the over unders for every NFL team.

[John Holmberg]

That is true.

[Dale Hellstray]

And some colleges.

[John Holmberg]

No, but I like watching the preseason for that. I don't care about starters starting. Like you said, most of them are already on the team. I like to see the guys who go out there and like, who's that? Who's making it like, Skyler Thompson for Pittsburgh is. I don't ever want a quarterback named Skyler. I don't ever want to say, guys, we're going to battle with Skyler even if it's in a pool hall. I don't want a Skyler on my team. Maybe Broadway Skyler's the choreographer. I'm like, we're going to have a great show.

[Dale Hellstray]

Not even pool volleyball.

[John Holmberg]

At Nash's house. Like, all right, Skyler, I'll take him. He's my last. Yeah, you're on the other team. I don't like a lot of bravado and strength with my. He has looked fantastic as the Steelers third guy.

[Dave Nash]

And again, that just goes show you preseason means everything.

[John Holmberg]

He's putting a resume. He's putting eyeballs on him for a lot of teams. Maybe Cleveland needs a seventh quarterback, you know, but he's. He's auditioning for a job not just for the team he's got the uniform on for, but all the other teams. He looks great.

[Dave Nash]

If these teams think that, then they need to talk to these husbands who their wife goes and screws around on them and he goes, I'm not gonna do it anymore, honey. Okay, I'll bring you back. It screws around on. Keep screwing around on him.

[Dale Hellstray]

Wow.

[John Holmberg]

This got personal.

[Dave Nash]

This is. Hey, he has a history like the cheating wife. He's a crappy quarterback.

[John Holmberg]

The history is somebody trusted him too much with the reins all you want him for scout team and backup and he's. And he looks really.

[Dale Hellstray]

How do we get to Skyler?

[John Holmberg]

I don't know what's going on in his life.

[Dave Nash]

Can we just keep him like. Like cleaning up the locker room after the locker room boy?

[John Holmberg]

Maybe we'll do some of that.

[Dave Nash]

That's fine.

[John Holmberg]

I wanted to get into this before we got done. Dale, you have. You have played obviously in an era where they didn't care about safety like they do today. And you're looking at the guardian helmets. Aaron Rodgers made comment recently about this spaceship he's got to wear in his head now to protect him. And he hates it.

[Dale Hellstray]

It.

[John Holmberg]

It's in the way you guys had. You go back and watch the 90s. Something was going on with your shoulder pads. I don't know who designed those. It was like a 1980s fashion statement with these giant shoulder.

[Dave Nash]

Giant shoulder pads all the way up.

[John Holmberg]

The neck with the rolls.

[Dale Hellstray]

Oh, yeah. You always had neck rolls.

[John Holmberg]

Those are gone.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Like dudes play with baby pads on their shoulders. Compared. But looking back now, when you meet somebody in the. In football now and they're wearing those giant helmets, they're looking at you like, how did you play without them? You had to do the same. When you came up in the 80s, meeting old Buffalo Bills or old Dallas Cowboys that would come in. Who played in an era where the helmets were made of thin plastic. And do you look at them the same way you think the players today look at your generation? Like, how did they survive? What did you notice about them? Were they screwy?

[Dale Hellstray]

Honestly, I crossed a few generations. Yeah. Up until my freshman year at Saguaro, it was suspension helmet.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellstray]

With one little strip of that just.

[John Holmberg]

Halo over your head. Yes.

[Dale Hellstray]

And then a thin thing of plastic. Yeah. Tell my freshman year. Then they came out with water helmets, which sounds like a great idea in Arizona. A little heavy, but they're about 12.

[John Holmberg]

Everybody's neck broke.

[Dale Hellstray]

Oh, my God. I mean, high school. And then all of a sudden you get into college and now they come out with a bike. Air helmets. Yep. And they were supposedly better. And then now you're to the point where.

[John Holmberg]

I don't know what this is.

[Dale Hellstray]

What's always amazed me about equipment in football is even like a Nate Newton. Yeah. They knew. Weighed 360 pounds. And he. You had to wear thigh pads and knee pads. Back in the 90s.

[Dave Nash]

You had to.

[Dale Hellstray]

You had to.

[Dave Nash]

That was a rule.

[Dale Hellstray]

It was a requirement. And Nate, at £360 would take just a little plastic shell and put it in his thigh pads because he thought the full thigh pad slowed him down.

[John Holmberg]

Tiny little dots.

[Dale Hellstray]

They weighed 2 ounces. You're 365 pounds. But then you fast forward and. Yeah, we've never. The helmets. Here's the reason. Like, a lot of guys don't want to wear them because they don't look cool. Cool. They wanna. They wanna look cool.

[John Holmberg]

But did you have that when you're like, oh, the old halo.

[Dave Nash]

No, Dale never looked.

[John Holmberg]

Could you call Troy Aikman and ask him? He's the same era.

[Dale Hellstray]

He might. He might wait another few.

[John Holmberg]

But when you talk to guys like in the old days, Art Donovan, all those old packers and everything, you go into those and you see these Guys and you're like, how are their brains not scrambled?

[Dale Hellstray]

Because they didn't hit as hard.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, is that. Oh, I'd probably truth that the, the athleticism wasn't going as fast. Yeah. 300 pounders and that thing.

[Dale Hellstray]

You know, if you're completely honest, you're going, okay. The, the 70s guys, they didn't have any weight rooms per se and all that. Now the Steelers started the steroids and weight rooms and all that.

[John Holmberg]

Rocky Blair, you know, and then you.

[Dale Hellstray]

Get this the 80s and then 90s also in some of these 310 pound linemen started showing up who could move. Yeah. And now you got 325 pound dudes who can run five flat 40s. Yeah. And you could. They do it in high school. School, yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. It's scary.

[Dale Hellstray]

They do it in high school.

[John Holmberg]

So the equipment had to change because.

[Dale Hellstray]

Of the size, because the collisions. I didn't know this until I started getting involved in this, the concussion stuff and all that. But they say every time that two linemen hit each other.

[John Holmberg]

Yes.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah. It's like getting into a car crash going 15 miles an hour. Yeah. Now you do that 60 times a game. Times. Yeah, 16.

[John Holmberg]

I saw that breakdown. They had running backs and they, you know, they moved them up to like 26 miles.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And their collisions are less than linemen, but they're 30 times a game.

[Dave Nash]

But a lot of, a lot of people don't know that fact. And that is true, dead true. That one big hit on a receiver, running back knocks them out and you go, oh, that's. There's a brain injury. Is, is one of those. Is, is not even as dangerous as the 60 or 70 smaller hits that you take in a game.

[Dale Hellstray]

Because it used to, we were. Used to be. I used to be told when you see little white fuzzies, right. That you know, knock the crap out of somebody.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellstray]

Oh, so you want their way. Yeah. So you wanted. You want to get white fuzzies five, ten times a game.

[John Holmberg]

That's right.

[Dale Hellstray]

And now. Oh, that was a concussion.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellstray]

It wasn't knock you out mine. Every other concussion. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

The one concussion I had in my life that I know I had. I had a couple, but this was a real one. I was playing in this weird semi pro football thing at asu and I got to be a quarterback in a practice and you get to suit up and do all that stuff and I didn't have a helmet on. I'm just standing around. Oh, I'm just standing around the side, just throwing with some guys and they were real players for the Mesa Marauders, I think was the name of the team. And they just took a bunch of guys, said, if you want to play with us, we need bodies. I'm like, I'll do it. So I was out there. I was a quarterback on the opposition, and dude comes up just goofing around on the side, and there's a sidewalk behind me. And he kind of just lays me out after I throw a shot. It was a good, clean tag. We fell, and he landed on me. My head hit his. His shoulder went under my chin. My head hit the sidewalk with no helmet. No helmet. Not hard. It was. It was enough for me to be able to fall and keep it, but it still hit.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

And I just remember feeling like, whoa, this ain't right. And it got worse and worse and worse. I drove home, I sat on the couch. I was at my mom's house. I sat on the couch and Frazier was on. And I remember.

[Dave Nash]

Well, you didn't have that bad of a concussion. You remember what was on this?

[John Holmberg]

This is where it all goes sideways ways.

[Dave Nash]

Okay.

[John Holmberg]

Frasier was on. There was something that made me laugh, and instead of laughing, I began sobbing uncontrollably and went down.

[Dale Hellstray]

Really? Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

When I watched that show, I. I didn't. I didn't want to show. Oh, come on.

[John Holmberg]

But I cried and I went out.

[Dale Hellstray]

Was this your real mom's house or your new mom's house?

[John Holmberg]

No, no, I didn't know her yet. That was not my mother. No. I ended up going to the doctor that night. You get a pretty nice one. Here he goes. You a really good concussion. And he said it was. And I'm like. It took, like, probably. I knew something was really wrong and I went out. It was probably 40 minutes.

[Dave Nash]

When did they expect it to get better?

[John Holmberg]

It's so far. I still. I still cry a lot. Yeah, I did the second I got a text from that. Oh, sex. There's. That's where most of the lubricant comes from, is the tears.

[Dale Hellstray]

But what I was going to tell you is that the concussions. A lot of times you don't know that you got a concussion as alignment, but there's probably been five times in my life to where you play a game and, you know, as an offensive line, hey, there's three plays. I'm going to get yelled at. You know, I screwed up here, took a wrong step. Whatever. Whatever it was. And you know when they're coming, you're like, okay, three, two, one. Yeah, it's coming. When you have a concussion, it's like you're watching a ghost.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, really?

[Dale Hellstray]

Your body's functioning, you're past protected, you're blocking, you know, and the guy next to you goes, why were you asking what to do on every play?

[John Holmberg]

Is that right?

[Dale Hellstray]

I don't, I don't remember any. And you're watching the entire game going, oh, I did that. Yeah, I did that. It's a freaky. Because I never got the. Some guys throw up from them.

[John Holmberg]

I did do that too. I was told I did that. I don't remember that part. But you guys said I threw up after I hit the.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah. So people, you know, they can get nauseating headaches. Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Well, now that they've banned smelling salts.

[Dale Hellstray]

Too, George K. You can still buy them.

[John Holmberg]

But the players can't have them.

[Dave Nash]

You can't.

[John Holmberg]

Not anymore.

[Dave Nash]

Will not provide them.

[John Holmberg]

Oh, the team won't do it.

[Dale Hellstray]

So the players. Oh, okay.

[John Holmberg]

So you can have one in your pocket.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yes.

[John Holmberg]

Cuz George Kittle was like, I do it before every drive.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[Dave Nash]

What's that too?

[John Holmberg]

Oh, just. Have you ever had it? Yeah. Stuff's brutal, man. I know. If you're not dizzy and you take that. That it, you're. You're running for 15 minutes longer than you thought you could. It's outrageous. It does something boxers every round.

[Dale Hellstray]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

You have got to. Because you only got three. Three minutes in that ring. Right. And if you come back a little bit down. Yeah, you're coming. You're going back to just waking up the book. But every time you use it, the down is a little heavier. It's rough.

[Dave Nash]

I didn't make it because I didn't do Roy. I didn't do.

[Dale Hellstray]

No, you didn't make it because they said they. You should move to catcher. And you said I've never been catcher. I will never be a catcher.

[John Holmberg]

Here we go. Look at that. Another one in the books. That's two of this sports thing.

[Dave Nash]

A sports thing.

[Dale Hellstray]

And I. This might end up being the favorite part of the show.

[John Holmberg]

Me too. I agree. So let me do it again as we end the show right before we go to whatever the hell he's got for Dale Hellistray, former NFL player me.

[Dale Hellstray]

John Holmberg, Dallas Cowboys super bowl champion.

[John Holmberg]

For a lot of teams that didn't win it. And I'm not even bringing that up. If you want me to go down your resume, I will. John Holmberg, host of the wildly successful morning sickness on 98 KUPD, celebrating 24 solid years in one place. You Couldn't do that.

[Dale Hellstray]

No. That's awesome.

[John Holmberg]

I know it is. You only did 1 6, Brady. Yeah, well, he's there. This show is now coming to its false ending. I give you a few moments with Dave Nash. Take it away way.

[Dave Nash]

Well, I would love to try some more smelling salts.

[John Holmberg]

Okay.

[Dave Nash]

Love to have that. I mean, love to be better.

[John Holmberg]

Give me, give me a conspiracy. Come on, this is your segment. Do I have to give it to.

[Dale Hellstray]

You every time moment? I mean, try again. Was 911?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, hold on. Don't get to the big ones yet. Oh my God, that's too much.

[Dale Hellstray]

The shot, was that really helpful to America?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, well, listen, I got the question. Hold on. All right, here we have a few minutes with Dave Nash. Tell me, besides Covid, which of the vaccines are beneficial and which are not? Shingles. We'll start there.

[Dave Nash]

There are no non beneficial vaccines. Not polio? No. Let's just stay right there. No, no, no, no Polio.

[John Holmberg]

What?

[Dave Nash]

The polio started to be eradicated out of the country.

[John Holmberg]

Tell that to the people in the iron lungs.

[Dave Nash]

Before the vaccine was administered to most of the population. It was about two years. The vaccine came in about two years after.

[John Holmberg]

But did the vaccine speed that process up? No, it was going to be eradicated. The exact same timeline?

[Dave Nash]

Yes, because what you don't realize, which you don't know. And I'll give you this information.

[John Holmberg]

Okay?

[Dave Nash]

You can watch this on the real Matrix.

[John Holmberg]

Okay.

[Dave Nash]

Polio was not a disease that you catch. It's not a virus.

[John Holmberg]

Right?

[Dave Nash]

It was. It was toxicology. It was from kids being in contact with chemicals, ddt, stuff like that. When they did away with the ddt, there was no more polio for kids. Tell you what, George Carlin did a real funny bit. He said when he was in New York, no kid ever had polio because they used to swim in the Hudson river and they swam in sewage. And it was a big comedy joke. But that's the case. There was no DDT in New York City.

[John Holmberg]

Can I interrupt for two seconds?

[Dave Nash]

Sure.

[John Holmberg]

I just asked AI.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Which I'm sure you think is probably also false. Is polio contagious? Yes, polio is highly contagious. It spreads through contact with saliva, mucus or stool of an infected person.

[Dave Nash]

Then why were kids who were quarantined in hospitals with other kids that didn't have polio? Why did those kids not get it?

[John Holmberg]

Well. Cause you don't catch everything.

[Dave Nash]

Wait a minute. He said it. What? All of a sudden you gotta get polio? That kid next to him. Don't. They're sitting around playing, throwing.

[John Holmberg]

Spitting on each other at the hospital. Now a kid with polio is not getting up, playing cards with you. He's laying there in his tube in his tank.

[Dave Nash]

You ever watch kids play? They're pulling on all their stuff.

[John Holmberg]

Kids with polio didn't play. They couldn't get out of their.

[Dave Nash]

They just did it very slowly. They weren't mentally slowed around in their wheelchairs.

[John Holmberg]

No, they had. You seen what they used to. My grandpa had polio. Never got the use of his left arm back.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah, chemical. Toxic. Toxic chemicals that he was in contact with.

[John Holmberg]

Don't Google that word.

[Dave Nash]

There's no more polio. Unless, of course, there's no polio. You take a vaccine and they put it in there.

[John Holmberg]

So what was the benefit of the polio vaccine? Since last show, we determined to make.

[Dave Nash]

Money for big Pharma.

[John Holmberg]

So it had nothing to do with actually helping. Has big Pharma ever helped anyone?

[Dave Nash]

Not that I'm aware of. Not once. I'll tell you this. I'll ask you the question, okay? What has big Pharma? What sickness has big Pharma cured? Oh, I know.

[John Holmberg]

They don't cure anything. They want you to stay sick.

[Dave Nash]

Okay?

[John Holmberg]

Yeah. They just want it at bay. Okay, here's a crazy stat.

[Dave Nash]

Go ahead.

[John Holmberg]

Beginning of time. Up until about 1875, the average lifespan of a human being was about 30 to 35 years old.

[Dave Nash]

Okay.

[John Holmberg]

From 1875 to today, we tripled it.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah. You know why?

[Dale Hellstray]

Medicine.

[John Holmberg]

No, thank you. Germs. Medicine. The recognition of molecules.

[Dave Nash]

You guys can say that. Listen, I will drive you to get another booster microscope. You can get more vaccine. No, because we actually now have sanitation. Yeah, we have toilets. We have public toilets. We don't have people wrapping all over the place in their. Someone's water. Very true, very true. That is the thing.

[Dale Hellstray]

But also.

[Dave Nash]

Thank you, Barnard.

[Dale Hellstray]

Not in some parts of the country.

[John Holmberg]

Can't two things still be true at once?

[Dave Nash]

No, no, not at all.

[John Holmberg]

That you can't have a little help from science and medicine. Now, when you get really sick, do you go to the doctor?

[Dave Nash]

I used to.

[John Holmberg]

Not anymore.

[Dave Nash]

Not after Covid.

[Dale Hellstray]

How about when your knee hurts?

[John Holmberg]

Oh, well, okay, listen, I gotta use an awful lot of stuff.

[Dave Nash]

Listen, if you. If there. If you have a broken bone, doctor's the way to go, okay? If you. If you are. If you are broken and you need to be put back together.

[John Holmberg]

Anesthesia. Because back in the years you were talking, they just kind of put a towel in your Mouth. Yeah.

[Dale Hellstray]

Well, no, you went under.

[John Holmberg]

You go on.

[Dave Nash]

Well, you got it. But. But.

[Dale Hellstray]

Oh, do you.

[Dave Nash]

I don't. I don't. I don't like it. I don't like it.

[John Holmberg]

Likes it.

[Dave Nash]

I don't like it.

[John Holmberg]

To sign papers that say you might die. Nobody likes it.

[Dave Nash]

I don't like it.

[John Holmberg]

So let's say I have a friend who's got cancer.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Currently.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

Has to have his kidney removed.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[John Holmberg]

What do you suggest he does?

[Dave Nash]

I suggest he gets on ivermectin, fenbendazole, men, Bendazole, and kill out. Kill all the parasites that is raging through his body.

[John Holmberg]

Don't you think it's too late now, though?

[Dave Nash]

Well, yeah, for Brady. Yeah, it's way too late. So now he's got no chance. I mean, he wasn't looking on another. Another.

[John Holmberg]

We got auditions.

[Dave Nash]

That's good.

[John Holmberg]

All right, so you don't. You. All right, that's okay. Not one vaccine in the history of man has helped us.

[Dave Nash]

Not one.

[John Holmberg]

Not even a little.

[Dave Nash]

Not. Not a little bit. Because, listen, what does it do? Well, listen, I will say this. Maybe in the past, a regular vaccine which gave you kind of dead germs that your body would say, when I see this, I'm going to attack this. But M N R and RNA vaccines, they change your immune system. And all vaccines are going toward that.

[John Holmberg]

Those are the synthetics, right? Those are the fake ones.

[Dave Nash]

No, it is. It changes. It gives you DNA strands that change your immune system. And now, all right, if you take a MRNA COVID vaccine, all right, it might determine it affect sickness and Covid. But it also may be attacking your T cells. Your T cells in your body fight cancer. Now you have things called turbo cancer where these people get cancer, they get stage four cancer out of nowhere.

[John Holmberg]

Judas Priest song cancer.

[Dave Nash]

You know what?

[John Holmberg]

It might have been it.

[Dave Nash]

You should you.

[John Holmberg]

I'm your turbo cancer.

[Dave Nash]

Yeah.

[Dale Hellstray]

So good.

[Dave Nash]

Good song.

[John Holmberg]

So if I took ivermectin and all the stuff you suggested and got the vaccine, vaccines just. I'll live to be 130.

[Dave Nash]

Listen, vaccines affect your natural immune system.

[John Holmberg]

Do you take aspirin?

[Dave Nash]

If I have a headache.

[John Holmberg]

Yeah, yeah, like bear.

[Dave Nash]

Listen, aspirin was well done before pharma. Not. I mean, not. Not this illegal, criminal big pharma when they kind of. I mean, they've been going on for.

[John Holmberg]

What year did that happen? Thereabouts. It's a good question when to say big pharma took over for like when doctors used to care for your health and now they only care.

[Dave Nash]

I think. I think definitely in regards to the polio vaccine. They were criminal then because that was nonsense.

[Dale Hellstray]

All right.

[Dave Nash]

Polio vaccine nonsense.

[John Holmberg]

Dave Nash. Two weeks in a row. Taylor Swift is a Satanist who's trying to kill all of her fans.

[Dave Nash]

Correct.

[John Holmberg]

And not one vaccine has ever been helpful.

[Dave Nash]

Hey, take more of them. Hey, if you like it, get, get. Hey, I believe freedom. You Want to take 10 vaccines? Knock yourself.

[John Holmberg]

If you like your vaccines, you can keep.

[Dave Nash]

Go crazy. I'm out.

[John Holmberg]

There it is.

[Dave Nash]

I'm out.

[Dale Hellstray]

We're out.

[John Holmberg]

That's it. Nice job, Dale. Great job. Dave Nash. Excellent work until the end. My name's John. This is that sports thing.

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