Home Cooking: Thanksgiving, Part 2 — “Umami and Me”

Hosts: Samin Nosrat & Hrishikesh Hirway
Guests: Tracy Clayton, Samin’s brothers (Pasha & Bahador), Rishi’s dad (Dr. Sumesh Hirway)
Date: November 24, 2020

Episode Overview

This emotional, laughter-filled Thanksgiving episode is a family affair, dedicated as a tribute to Rishi's late mother, Kantha "Kanta Aunty" Hirway, an exceptional cook who bridged Indian and American culinary traditions. The show explores what makes Thanksgiving special for immigrant and blended families — from stuffing tweaks to the iconic mango pie, and dives deep into umami, family nostalgia, and the evolution of holiday dishes. Alongside Samin and Rishi, listeners hear from Samin’s brothers, Rishi’s dad, and guest Tracy Clayton, all sharing memories, debates, and practical tips for making Thanksgiving food memorable, delicious, and meaningful.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Honoring Kanta Aunty and the Significance of Mango Pie

[00:30] – [03:11], [42:04] – [48:15]

• Samin opens with the sad news of Kanta Aunty’s passing, reading from Rishi’s obituary:

  “Kantha was an excellent cook… she expressed her love through cooking and insisted on feeding everyone who came into her house. … A highlight for her family and the friends who came to visit was her mango pie, a hybrid dessert…”
  — Samin, [00:46]

• The mango pie, a beloved fusion dessert, symbolizes both loss and the power of food as memory and tradition:

  “It was a dish that represented her well, making a home in America, but always connected to Indian culture, food and community.”
  — Samin, [01:16]

• Recipe is made available as a tribute. Donations to food banks in Kanta Hirway’s name are encouraged.

2. Stuffing: Traditions, Tweaks, and Tips

[04:08] – [18:17]

• Samin’s Obsession:

  • Admits she didn’t grow up with Thanksgiving and initially only knew box stuffing (“did not understand that”) until discovering the joys of homemade.

• Rishi’s Family Stuffing—An Indian-American Hybrid:

  “I love stuffing. Stuffing loves me back. We deeply understand each other.”
  — Rishi, [05:01]

  • Main innovation: sautéed onions and cashews. Sometimes even “podni” (mustard seed and Indian spices).
  • Brand allegiance: Pepperidge Farm for the mix, but always with his own additions.

• Samin’s “Essential” Stuffing Flavors:

  • Celery, onion (sautéed in butter), fresh thyme, fresh sage.

  “The smell of celery and onion cooking in butter is like the smell of Thanksgiving to me.”
  — Samin, [06:39]

• Bread Tips:

  “My mantra is work acid in at every opportunity… I really prefer to use a sourdough bread, because then even the base of the stuffing has some tang in it.”
  — Samin, [07:57]

• Freezing Bread for Freshness:

  “The freezer. It’s a time machine.”
  — Samin, [10:19]

• Stuffing Inside vs. Outside the Turkey:

  • Listener Kate asks how to replicate the “inside the bird” umami richness without the bird.

  “The stuffing cooked inside the turkey… has a dark meat kind of flavor…a salty umami…”
  — Rishi, [12:00]

  • Samin’s tip: make a double stock — roast extra bones, deglaze pan, and make a super-rich broth.

    “This is that one time a year where home cooks do restaurant level cooking.”
    — Samin, [13:31]

• Vegetarian Umami:

  • Mushrooms are the MVP. “Mushrooms are the answer to everything, unless you don’t like mushrooms…”
    — Samin, [16:22]
  • Add tomato paste, nutritional yeast, a splash of soy sauce, or kombu for more depth.
  • Bouillon cubes: “No, absolutely — Better than Bouillon, as we, you know, we started this whole podcast with that.”
    — Samin, [17:34]

• Listener Q&A — Stuffing Recap:

  • Essential trick: maximize flavor in the stock, and invest in umami.

3. Family Memories: Samin’s Brothers

[18:17] – [23:32]

• Samin’s brothers share memories of her earliest cooking attempts (notably, a “controversial” chicken pot pie).
• Family’s Iranian traditions:

  “Our version of that [big family meal] is Persian New Year… which is really, like, all holidays wrapped into one, you know?”
  — Bahador, [21:51]

• Joy, disasters, and pyromania — a story of nearly burning the house down with Persian New Year candles.

4. Family Memories: Rishi’s Dad, Dr. Sumesh Hirway

[23:47] – [26:29]

• “Turkey hotline” segment: Sumesh, a food scientist, recounts cooking his first turkey in 1983, following Joy of Cooking.

  “Since I am in your house, it should be made your way.”
  — Dr. Sumesh, [25:33]

• Notable moment: Sumesh stepping back and letting Rishi cook for the first time.
• Thanksgiving, for their immigrant family, became a ritual of cultural blending and hospitality.

5. Acid, Condiments, and the Power of Sage Salsa Verde

[27:00] – [30:40]

• Samin insists on “acid at every meal,” advocating for a “fried sage salsa verde” as a bright, herby, versatile Thanksgiving condiment.
• Quick recipe: macerate shallots in vinegar, fry sage leaves, combine with chopped parsley and olive oil, crumble fried sage just before serving.

  “The fried sage melts into the olive of the salsa verde. And it’s just so delicious.”
  — Samin, [30:40]

6. Cornbread: Debates, Texture Woes & Sweetness Wars

[32:47] – [38:03]
Guest: Tracy Clayton

• Tracy declares a hot take:

  “Ready? I don’t actually like cornbread… It’s the graininess of it. For me, it’s very much a texture thing.”
  — Tracy, [33:42]

• Samin and Tracy explain the “sweet vs. unsweet” Southern cornbread divide:
  • “The farther south you go… the thinner and more crumbly and less sweet cornbread becomes. And the farther north you go… the more cakey it becomes.”
• Rishi: “Cornbread, to me, is just, like, a slight variation on yellow cake.” [36:02]
• Iconic revelation:

  “The secret recipe of Boston Market cornbread is that it’s half cornbread mix, half vanilla cake mix. Ah. And that’s why you like it so much.”
  — Samin, [36:53]

7. Tracy’s Thanksgiving Favorites & Leftovers

[38:05] – [41:08]

• Tracy loves her mom’s “au gratin potatoes” (cheesy, creamy!) and “yeast rolls” (pull-apart, buttery).

  “It comes out, and it’s just brown and soft and just buttery and just delicious. I could eat a pan right now.”
  — Tracy, [39:31]

• Rishi asks about the name ‘yeast roll’ (“Is it for Thanksgiving, or do they do it for…yeaster?”) — leading to much giggling.
• The best part of the meal for Tracy’s mom: the leftover turkey sandwich, chips, and a cold beer.

8. Mango Pie Origins and Recipe Variations

[42:04] – [48:15]

• Mango pie: a staple at Hirway Thanksgivings, symbolizing “immigrant soul in food form.”
• Samin writes about it for the New York Times, “fancying it up”; Rishi prefers the Cool Whip-Keebler crust original.

  “Your soul is made out of Cool Whip and Keebler crust.”
  — Samin, [45:19]

• Vegetarian alternative for gelatin: “agar agar”/“agarugar” works as a one-to-one sub, giving a slightly different (but still delicious) texture.
• Mango pie recipe is included in Thanksgiving resources, free for all to access.

9. Kitchen Disasters & Recipe Improvisation

[50:09] – [55:59]

• Samin shares her worst pie disaster: a chocolate pudding pie with a too-hard crust and a too-runny filling.

  “There was like this path of chocolate drip from… where I got out of the car, all the way down the sidewalk… into their fridge. And at that point, I was like, I don’t know what to do. So I just put it in the freezer...”
  — Samin, [54:24]

• Moral: reading and following a recipe can be your friend.

10. Thanksgiving Traditions and Games

[56:08] – [58:51]

• Many listeners (and the hosts) cherish post-Thanksgiving traditions — hikes, leftovers, and party games.
• Rishi describes “Celebrity” — a guessing game using names in a bowl, which they adapt to “famous foods.”
• Example:
  • A: “This is a dessert. It’s very famous from My Big Fat Greek Wedding.”
  • B: “Bundt cake!”
    — [58:18–58:42]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Stuffing is my favorite part of the meal… First of all, it’s a love, love relationship. I love stuffing. Stuffing loves me back. We deeply understand each other.” — Rishi, [05:01]
• “My mantra is work acid in at every opportunity.” — Samin, [07:57]
• “The freezer. It’s a time machine.” — Samin, [10:19]
• “This is that one time a year where home cooks do restaurant level cooking.” — Samin, [13:31]
• “Your soul is made out of Cool Whip and Keebler crust.” — Samin, [45:19]
• “Cornbread, to me, is just, like, a slight variation on yellow cake.” — Rishi, [36:02]
• “The secret recipe of Boston Market cornbread is that it’s half cornbread mix, half vanilla cake mix.” — Samin, [36:53]
• “There was like this path of chocolate drip from the, like, where I got out of the car, all the way down the sidewalk…” — Samin, [54:24]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Dedication to Kanta Aunty & Mango Pie Origin: [00:30] – [03:11], [42:04] – [48:15]
• Stuffing Deep Dive & Listener Q&A: [04:08] – [18:17]
• Family Memories (Samin’s brothers): [18:17] – [23:32]
• Family Memories (Rishi’s dad): [23:47] – [26:29]
• Sage Salsa Verde & Condiments: [27:00] – [30:40]
• Cornbread Debate (Tracy Clayton): [32:47] – [38:03]
• Tracy’s Thanksgiving Favorites: [38:05] – [41:08]
• Mango Pie Discussion & Recipe Tips: [42:04] – [48:15]
• Samin’s Worst Pie Disaster: [50:09] – [55:59]
• Thanksgiving Games & Traditions: [56:08] – [58:51]

Tone & Style

Warm, irreverent, and deeply personal, the episode blends practical how-tos with family reminiscence, clever humor, and a touch of emotion. Jokes, food puns, and sibling banter abound alongside genuinely useful advice and moving tributes to loved ones.

Resources Mentioned

• Mango Pie Recipe: Available for free for the holiday via The New York Times (linked on show resources page)
• Stuffing Variations: Tips for rich stock, vegetarian umami, and bread selection
• Cornbread “Secret”: Boston Market hack (half vanilla cake mix, half cornbread mix)
• Sage Salsa Verde Recipe: Linked in show notes

This episode is a love letter to the blended tables of America, filled with laughter, umami, and the spirit of “feeding everyone who comes into the house.” Whether you’re seeking recipe upgrades, new traditions, or simply kitchen company, Samin, Rishi, and friends bring the comfort and joy of a big, inclusive family feast direct to your ears.