Ilona on Women's Rugby Cuts, Bikini Inflation & Lesbian Fashion with Lauren Chan

Summary

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House of Maher: Ilona on Women's Rugby Cuts, Bikini Inflation & Lesbian Fashion with Lauren Chan

Host: Wave
Guests: Ilona Maher, Olivia Maher, Adrianna “Dre Baby” Maher, Lauren Chan
Date: May 12, 2026

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Overview

This episode of House of Maher dives deep into sisterhood, sports, women’s bodies, queerness, and self-image in an entertaining, witty roundtable. Olympic rugby player Ilona Maher is joined by sisters Olivia and Adrianna, with special guest Lauren Chan — model, SI cover star, LGBTQ+ and size inclusion advocate, and founder of plus-size brand Henning. The group swaps cultural commentary, personal stories, and hilarious moments, weaving through topics like the cost of bikinis, the politics of college women’s sports, the retreat of curve fashion, and the power of unapologetic lesbian style. Not to mention, insider tea on Sports Illustrated shoots, heartfelt queer love stories, and memorable audience Q&A (“Try Hard”) rounds.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bikini Inflation & Sustainable Fashion

[01:05–03:16]

• The sisters open with a candid rant about skyrocketing prices of bikinis, especially the trend of selling tops and bottoms separately at premium rates.
• They scrutinize how quality doesn’t often match the cost, questioning the labor practices behind fast fashion versus genuine sustainability.
  • Ilona: “For such a small article of clothing…”
  • Dre: “We’re looking at polyester and spandex... why are you raising the price to heavens knows what?”
• Solutions considered: supporting truly sustainable brands, learning to sew their own swimsuits (with funny college barter stories about fixing clothes and cutting hair for Dunkin’ gift cards).

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2. Women's Rugby Cuts & Gender Parity in College Sports

[03:18–05:39]

• Ilona reveals her alma mater, Quinnipiac University, abruptly cut its D1 women's rugby program without warning, despite rising women’s sports visibility.
  • Ilona: “As women's sports is on the rise…my school team, Quinnipiac, cut their women's rugby program. Awful. Made it club.” ([03:18])
  • School officials disabled social media and fired coaches overnight, citing “gender equality” while adding men’s track instead.
  • Strong reactions about the late timing (impacts on scholarships/transfer options) and the disrespectful, silent method.
  • Dre: “That’s how you know they’re in the wrong.”
• Contrast: The sisters celebrate the emergence of women’s sports bars (Untamed Spirits in LA, Watch Me in Long Beach), which serve as empowering queer and female-centered spaces.

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3. Women’s Sports Bars: Safe Spaces & Community

[05:39–08:48]

• The group shares their experiences frequenting women’s sports bars.
  • Olivia: “I just feel like I'm home, happy, safe, comfortable. Like I'm around all women. Like, it's so much fun. And I just, like...take tequila shots.” ([06:12])
  • Stories of men being welcome, albeit sometimes a little lost: “They could tell something was different... They stayed for one. Bless them. Support allies.” ([07:32])
• Discussion on the male fan base of women’s sports and how these inclusive venues are significant both for queer culture and for overall visibility.

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4. Meet Lauren Chan: SI Cover Model, Advocate & Writer

[08:56–10:15]

• Lauren is introduced as “the first ever lesbian on the cover of SI Swimsuit,” a representation milestone.
  • Wave: “Ditching the male gaze is the ultimate power move.”
• Banter about modeling experiences, swapping hype during SI shoots, and sharing behind-the-scenes chaos (including fake nipple rings and weather mishaps).

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5. Queer-Owned Bars, Basketball, and Sports Fandom

[11:23–12:18]

• Lauren reports on the thriving lesbian/queer bar scene in NYC, recommending Athena Kiki’s in Brooklyn and celebrating her new alliances as both a New York Liberty and a (new) Toronto Tempo fan.
  • Lauren: “I contain multitudes, so I'm gonna own, like, both jerseys…” ([12:21])

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6. Fashion, Size Inclusion Backslide, and Ditching the Male Gaze

[19:55–22:27; 27:13–32:14]

• Lauren and the hosts tackle the shrinking presence of curve models in fashion and the growing “regression” to skinny ideals.
  • Lauren: “We are seeing a recession in size inclusion... it has to do with meds, economics, and politics... but I do think we will see a resurgence.” ([20:24])
• Discussion of her transition from fashion editor to model/TV host, with the constant “North Star” of representation.
• Candid thoughts on evolving personal style, especially after embracing her queerness.
  • Lauren: “I used to dress in a way that really minimized myself... Since coming out, like, I genuinely love my body... I don’t worry as much about flattery in the female gaze.” ([28:15])
  • Her favorite recent looks: “A dress made out of oyster shells... a sheet of clear resin meant to look like a bucket of water was thrown at me... That’s drag, mama.” ([28:58])

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7. Fashion Trend Forecast & Lesbian Aesthetic

[25:53–27:05; 32:00–34:21]

• Trend recs: Balenciaga “shield” sunglasses and 90s wireframes.
  • Lauren: “Wireframes, little... I just love the 90s.” ([26:00])
• The rise of “lesbian aesthetic” (oversized blazers, slicked hair) as a fashion movement and expression of rejecting male-centered beauty standards.
  • Lauren: “When you’re in the female gaze, it’s about camp, art, and self-expression... my old self would’ve said I can’t wear this because my boobs are not symmetrical—now I celebrate it.” ([32:14])

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8. Queer Love, Coming Out Story & Joy

[37:20–45:44]

• Lauren shares her heartwarming love story with her wife Haley, including a raccoon-themed Powerpoint (Canva!) slideshow proposal.
  • Lauren: “She now makes me slideshows on birthdays or special moments or to propose to me.” ([37:47])
• NYC Chinese drag bar wedding with friends, and dropping a husband (“Love to him.”) in favor of living authentically.
• Honest recounting of coming out at 32:
  • Lauren: “I didn't know that I wasn't feeling desire...I was so ambition-driven I didn’t know what questions to ask...when I met Haley, that desire came to the forefront.” ([42:23])
  • She links her early love of fashion to being “drawn to women, without knowing it.”
• First Pride memories, the evolution of her role and visibility in the queer community, and the joy of new inclusivity milestones.

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9. Defining Success (Roundtable)

[49:31–54:44]

• Lauren: “Success to me looks like not being in a place where I have to worry about resources... and enjoying what I do, rather than fearing lost bookings. Even if I bartend at a lesbian bar a few nights a week, that’ll feel like success.”
• Sisters weigh in with their own changing definitions of success — achievement, authenticity, enjoying life’s process, and learning from change.

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10. Try Hard: Rapid Fire Q&A with Lauren Chan

[54:44–60:32]

• Favorite meme: “A globe with two huge earth titties: ‘Do I look flat to you?’” ([55:08])
• An American trend she’ll never understand: “Republicanism… or the lack of poutine.” ([55:35])
• Bikini price limit: “Let’s say $100 a piece, but as a designer, anything less is scary.” ([57:09])
• Dream job as a kid: “Fashion editor, designer, model… and a brief moment as a dentist.” ([57:58])
• Family crest: “Our dog Pepper, a basketball, a pair of big naturals, and a PowerPoint slide.” ([58:12])
• Book recs: The Long Game by Rachel Reid, and Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself by Dr. Joe Dispenza (“the science behind manifesting”). ([58:46]; [59:36])
• What’s she writing? “Yeah. It’s lesbian smut.” ([60:13])
  • Lauren, on writing steamy fiction: “It’s called method writing.” ([60:24])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On queer representation in fashion:
  • Lauren Chan ([28:15]): “Since coming out, I genuinely love my body…and I don’t worry as much about flattery in the female gaze.”
• On leaving male-centered ideals behind:
  • Lauren Chan ([30:09]): “I used to live in the male gaze in a way where I felt like I was so wrong. Now, because I'm on solid ground, I really, really like to defy things because it makes me feel like I get closer to who I actually am.”
• On price of fashion and size inclusion:
  • Lauren Chan ([20:24]): “We’re in a dip right now...but the stock [of inclusion] will always rise. As always, it will push a new kind of diversity and a new conversation forward.”
• On coming out later in life:
  • Lauren Chan ([42:23]): “I didn’t know that I wasn’t feeling desire... There was so much going on back here that I didn’t even know what questions to ask to figure it out.”
• On queer love:
  • Lauren Chan ([37:47]): “She now makes me slideshows on birthdays or special moments or to propose to me.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:05] Bikini price rant & sustainability
• [03:18] Quinnipiac women’s rugby cut (#TitleIX issues)
• [05:39] Women's sports bars & community vibes
• [08:56] Lauren Chan: intro and SI Swimsuit BTS
• [14:32] Canadian pride: heated hockey TV, representation
• [19:55] Fashion industry’s curve inclusion regression
• [27:13] Red carpet style & breaking fashion “rules”
• [32:14] Lesbian aesthetic, body affirmation, and the female gaze
• [37:20] Lauren's PowerPoint proposal story
• [42:23] Coming out journey, desire, queer self-discovery
• [54:44] Try Hard rapid-fire Q&A

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Tone & Style

The House of Maher is hilarious, sharp, warmly self-deprecating, and always unfiltered. You'll find wildly honest admissions (“It’s lesbian smut!”), celebration of community and inclusion, and serious wisdom woven through laughter. The hosts and their guest keep things both down-to-earth and delightfully extra, sometimes veering into the absurd but always landing on something profound — whether about fashion, family, or identity.

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For anyone who missed the episode:
This one is a must-listen for queer culture lovers, women’s sports fans, and fashionistas, or anyone questioning the “rules” about their bodies and identities. You’ll wind up feeling both seen, entertained, and ready to find a women’s sports bar near you.

Transcript

[A]

You said a little bit about you're writing a book. Are you writing a memoir? Your own fiction story? Tell us about it. We're all big readers.

[B]

Yeah. It's lesbian smut. Yay.

[A]

You're like, haley, I gotta try something out for the book.

[C]

It's for the book. This is research.

[B]

It's called method writing.

[A]

Look it up.

[C]

I'm a professional. Well, send us an advanced copy because.

[A]

Welcome or welcome back to House of Mar. A Wave original. Loosen your tie and help yourself to whatever's in the fridge. The WI FI password is oversized underscore blazer, all caps. You should know that we have a few house rules here.

[C]

Girls are magic.

[A]

Reading is hot and so are you. Make sure to like and subscribe on YouTube and watch us with your beady little eyes. Yeah, right. Let us get into what is happening in the group chat.

[C]

I have something team. What's that? As we get closer to summer and I am shopping for bathing suits currently something to hold these girlies in. Thoughts on the price of bathing suits? Tops and bottoms are sold separately and usually at what feels like quite a big price tag. What are our thoughts? Is 80. Like, I'm looking at a suit right now. That's $80 for the top, $80 for the bottom.

[D]

Oh my gosh.

[A]

For a bikini.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And like the whole being sold separately, which I get different sizes on tops and bottoms. But like, I'm. I'm still. I'm a cheap person at heart. Like not. No offense to she and. But like not she and cheap. But I do like something at a.

[A]

That's. That's like tough because for such a small article of clothing.

[C]

Right.

[A]

But also for well made.

[C]

Yeah. Right.

[D]

But all of these aren't well made.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

Right?

[D]

And like we're looking at bad stitching, bad fabric. Like, because it's a swimsuit. We're not looking for organic materials here. You know, we're looking at polyester and spandex and everything that it's already so cheap that I'm like, why are you. It really comes down to labor. Yeah, but most of these places aren't using sustainable labor, but are just raising the price to heavens knows what just to make as much money as they can.

[C]

You're right. Maybe I should look up some specifically, like sustainable, more sustainable bathing suit making brand, so I feel better about that price tag.

[A]

That can be tough though, because I think for us, finding a suit that works well for you, you know, it takes like we found. We found a couple brands that work well, so we Try to like, continue to buy from that one. But it could be an interesting thing to check out some other brands.

[C]

Another reminder that I need to learn how to sell. I gotta. I gotta take.

[A]

You're gonna sell yourself a bathing suit?

[C]

I think I'm gonna sell myself a bathing suit.

[D]

I'll believe it when I.

[A]

How about you sew two pieces of cloth together first?

[C]

First of all, I have done them before. I used to sew a lot in college.

[A]

Did you?

[C]

People used to come to me to like fix stuff before, like with the machine.

[B]

Not hand sew.

[A]

She's hand sewing a suit.

[C]

I hand sewed a girl's dress for the LAX formal one time. Or I fixed it for her.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

She gave me a Duncan gift card. That was really nice of her.

[D]

I used to cut people's hair in college for Duncan.

[C]

I would too. And I'd braid it for games.

[D]

Well, there you go.

[C]

All for Duncan. A couple.

[D]

It was our only currency there.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Another thing in the group chat. This was actually a bit ago, but it's so interesting. So, like, as women's sports is on the rise, as media coverage is on the rise, my school team, Quinnipiac, cut their women's rugby program. Awful. And made it into club.

[C]

Just like overnight too.

[A]

Just overnight? Yeah. They came in disabled. Their like social media, told the coach and the assistant coach they were fired. Then went and told the girls. It's a very expensive school. It's like, you know, 60,000 a year. So.

[D]

More than 60,000.

[A]

Yeah, more now than it was fixed.

[C]

If there was a school that could afford a varsity rugby team. Yeah.

[A]

Good school. So Quinnipiac University. Sorry if I hadn't said that. Quinnipiac University, they cited gender equality and now they're adding men's long distance running

[C]

and track to a track program.

[A]

I was like, what? So I got this text a bit ago and from my teammates all in a group chat together and my coach texted me. So we were just figuring that out. And I think it's so interesting is that as women's sports is still on the rise. It's not in some other ways. And it gets me so sad that no matter the work I'm putting in, like that is the school I went to. That is their kind of fame.

[C]

They get to tout. Alona Mar, went here Olympian.

[A]

And I came out of that program a product of that program. That program gave me a lot. So it's very. It's sad to see and I think really disruptive and just disrespectful in Some ways is shameful, I think especially of

[D]

how they did it in such silence.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

They didn't consult with the coaches.

[C]

That's how they know they're in the wrong.

[A]

And also in the spring, now that I'm thinking about it, because now these girls have to. What are they going to do? Apply to a new school? It's what it's like.

[D]

Yeah. How are you going to transfer? It's pretty late.

[A]

Transfer. It's late. You transfer. Or what are they going to put on? Have to get 60,000 bucks in student loans if their scholarship is now taken from them. Oh, these girls went to the school to play rugby and now their whole rugby's been taken.

[D]

That's D1 rugby program.

[A]

D1 rugby program.

[D]

And it's also with how they did it in such silence. They didn't even try to save it. You know, like, if it was a money thing.

[A]

It's not a money thing.

[D]

You could have tried to go around and raise some funds for this.

[C]

It's not a money thing.

[A]

Yeah. So anyway, that's it. That made me think about it because we were also at a women's sports bar. So it's like, interesting. Like, women's sports bars are on the rise.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

So happy news. Women's sports bars, happy news.

[A]

Are on the rise. We went to Untamed Spirits.

[C]

We really love here in la.

[A]

There's another one in Long beach called Watch Me. So I love that. I think that's cool. I think it can also now when we talk to our next guest or, you know, she'll have something to say on it as a space for queer individuals and just a really. A place to commune and chat. And we were there this weekend. I mean, the owner is a bad influence on us.

[C]

They need to bar entry to me, Olivia cannot go.

[A]

I've never seen this girl go crazier than when she's at a women's sports bar.

[C]

I don't know what it is. I just feel like she's home, happy, safe, comfortable. I just feel so. Like I'm around all women. Like, it's so much fun. And I just, like. I take tequila shots.

[A]

Like, I never take shots.

[C]

Take shots.

[A]

She's ripping three.

[C]

I'm ripping three.

[A]

And I'm like, let me get the lemon pepper wings. Yes. She's nachos.

[C]

I'll get the mango margherita and the nachos.

[A]

It's just an interesting. I mean, she. I could. Well, you're a women's sports fan. Being a fan of me in My game. So that's your space. That's your area.

[C]

It's my area. It's your safe.

[D]

Yeah, Safe space.

[A]

She goes on her own most of the time.

[C]

I literally do.

[A]

I show up, start drinking each 20 ways for me.

[C]

I joined the beer pong tournament.

[A]

She joined a beer pong tournament when we were there.

[C]

Not good.

[A]

I don't think she was really in it to win it, guys. She was in it for the lore.

[C]

The lore.

[D]

And you come to playing ping pong?

[C]

Come to. No. But I think it's exciting. And there should be even more of these popping up everywhere.

[D]

There is a new sports bar on the Upper west side. It's called the Throwback. I did look it up. Doesn't look like it's just women or gay, but there is a gay flag outside.

[A]

And so I was like, hey, next

[D]

to Nick's flag, you can be both, you know. But I was like, what are we?

[A]

And men are allowed in these bars.

[C]

Oh, my gosh. Welcome.

[A]

They're allowed. Actually, like watch women sports.

[C]

It's very cool. And the actually Untamed Spirits used to be a. I don't want to say regular sports bar, you know, but it was a sports bar before, and now it's a women's sports bar. But I think some people still know it as this sports bar from before. So I've been there for like big day parties with like celebrating with Angel City girls, like, or whatever. And I watched this group of like four guys come in. And they walked all the way in, but they were looking around real confused. They were like, huh. They could tell something was different. And then they. I think they. They stayed for one. Bless them. And then they rolled out. But I thought that was still great of them. Stay for one. Support allies.

[A]

Dad was telling me though, that actually the number of people who are watching women's soccer, something like 50 men, if not a little more. Yeah, there's a statistics on. Maybe I'm like lying, but that's what dad. So I can't trust him. But there's more men watching women's sports than we think.

[C]

Really? That's so exciting.

[A]

So, yeah, come to these spaces, guys.

[D]

When I was at the unrivaled semifinals, the men were the most excited.

[A]

They like talk, like yelling and like

[D]

knowing all the players names. It was really incredible. And I was like, you're. You're a big fan.

[A]

Well, everyone watches women's sports, and everyone should be checking out and watching our guests this week. Yeah, let's get into it.

[C]

Yeah, let us know if there is a women's sports bar by you, though, in our comments so that we can visit them all over the country if we happen to be there.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Our fourth March sister today is a powerhouse who turned a troll comment into an iconic Sports Illustrated cover. She's a model, a fashion editor, and the founder of the luxury plus size brand Henning. After coming out at 32, she became a leading voice for queer AAPI and size inclusive communities, proving that ditching the male gaze is the ultimate power move. She's the first ever lesbian on the COVID of SI swimsuit, and she's here to talk all about it. Welcome to the family. Lauren Chan. Welcome.

[B]

Thanks for adopting me.

[A]

Yay. You fit right in. You're tall. Yes. Great boobs on you.

[C]

Yep. Her and I, at least we got that going on.

[A]

Oh, and Jay's about to. Dre's on her way.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

All our boobs are special. All boobs are beautiful.

[B]

All boobs are beautiful.

[C]

Where are you coming to us from?

[B]

I'm at home in New York. Although I wish I was there on the couch with you. Another time, another time. We'll see each other so soon in a matter of days.

[C]

The last time you guys saw each other, last time.

[A]

Laura and I had a beautiful day. We shot together. We just saw. We got to. We get changed. She's changed, and I'm shooting. Then it's a whole chaotic process. You see a lot of lot of each other, but it was fun. I like shooting with people because she's hyping me up, then I'm hyping her up. And then they put us together. I have a video. I gotta post that video. It's really good.

[B]

Yeah, We. For those who don't know, Sports Illustrated now cuts your shoot days into two talent at a time, so you share your day. And so every year, I kind of go, come on, come on, come on, come on. And Alona and I got each other this year, so we got to spend the day together in Loretto. It rained for a bit. We had some fake nipple rings going on with wine and pizza. It was a good day.

[C]

Now, were you hit by the. The brown delay? I've heard about the.

[B]

No, but I have a video of Alona talking about that, so I can't wait to.

[C]

Oh, we need to see that, right?

[A]

She. Lauren kept going when we were going to together. She's like, I don't think anything's gonna happen. We're gonna be fine because we have America's sweetheart here.

[D]

And she kept telling that If I will be our savior.

[A]

If anything happens, I'm like, what? Okay, what am I gonna do? We have America's sweetheart.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I felt invincible that day just from being near your aura. I was like, I could do anything.

[C]

Powerful on a. Quit inflating your head, though. Like, enough of that. You're a sister now. You got to bring her down a couple pegs. Come on.

[B]

Oh, true. I. Yeah, okay. It's going to take me a minute to slip in, but I'll get there.

[D]

I say method act first, and then it'll just be natural.

[C]

We were just talking before this about there's a women's sports bar right by my house that we like love, and we go watch alone as team play there. Do you have any bayou in New York?

[B]

Yeah, tons. Athena Kiki is just. I say tons because women's sports bars are often lesbian bars or queer owned spaces. And, you know, there are only a handful or two in the states and they're dwindling. So anyways, yes, per capita. Tons. We have Athena Kikis in Brooklyn.

[C]

And what are you watching?

[B]

When you go wnba, we just. Wilkas. Thank you. It's Wilkas in the city. Yeah. So Haley and I love the wnba. We're Liberty fans, obviously, because proximity and champions and.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And. And yep. And I'm from Toronto and we just got a team. We got the tempo. So first season starting so soon.

[A]

So are you changing up alliances?

[B]

I contain multitudes, so I'm gonna own, like, both jerseys, you know? Yeah, yeah. All those colors look great on me.

[C]

That's the spirit. And Adriana says, what do they play each other? I think she should make one of those jerseys that's like, split in half.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wait, that's so fun. And then Haley can wear the other halfs.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

That's really cute.

[B]

I actually dropped the puck at the PWHL Pride game, and that was Toronto versus New York, so that's cool. Your jersey idea.

[C]

Ah, it's all right.

[A]

Next time.

[C]

Now you can have it. You can take it.

[A]

Now while we're here, I want to get into tea time so we can talk a little bit about the WNBA draft just happened and Az and was drafted to Dallas. Right. With Paige.

[C]

Just speaking of all this, we hear you're a heated rivalry fan. Is this true?

[B]

Who isn't?

[C]

Yrn.

[D]

Who isn't?

[B]

I asked. I beg the question. Who is not?

[D]

Agreed. And if you're not, why, like a

[A]

closeted straight man who just won't watch it because he's like, no, that.

[C]

Yeah. Right.

[A]

But he still loves it secretly.

[C]

Thou protest.

[B]

Yeah, I was.

[A]

He loves it secretly.

[B]

I think that's still makes him a fan.

[A]

Yeah, true. No, you're right, you're right.

[C]

Has this been a pride and joy coming out of Canada?

[B]

Listen, I've told Jacob so many times that he literally makes me proud to be Canadian because a not only like on a personal level am I as a mixed Asian, like queer Canadian. Seeing myself represented, seeing it through that, through the coming out story, through the like embodiment of the words that are so true to life. It's also just so incredible for Canadian arts. Right? Like, I feel like Canada gets counted out so much in this show that was shot in like a matter of a month in Hamilton, Ontario, has become the most resonant. I won't even say like talked about or viral. Like the most resonant piece of art that has been made in the queer community in a long time and across the board, like in the world in a long time. And so I mean I can hear myself going into my like my, my serious like amp Duff voice because it's just. It really makes me like feel like seen celebrated and like I should be proud to be who I am.

[C]

It really is that deep. Like get amped up.

[B]

No, it really is. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm about to learn how to play hockey. Are you actually now imagine me on skates. I'm talking like girls.

[C]

Yeah, you went from that puck drop. You're like, I gotta get out there more.

[B]

I gotta get out of here more.

[D]

This is really my scene now.

[C]

Gotta lace up these skates a little bit. I think.

[B]

Just like imagine me in the gear.

[C]

You're the goalie.

[D]

You can make it work.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

If anybody can, you can make it work.

[C]

We'll see you at the next one.

[D]

You know what?

[B]

I'll take that challenge. I'll take that challenge. Catch me in like a Julia Fox hockey padding. Look soon.

[A]

Oh, love.

[D]

Oh my God.

[C]

Or another Canadian icon, McRae. She loves a hockey uniform.

[B]

She loves a hockey player.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That's where her. That's where her and I differ. It's where her and I differ.

[D]

Ye think it's really been Canada's year. And I will say I do appreciate how Jacob is furthering that. When they were talking about casting for season two, he was saying that they were prioritizing Canadians and I was like, as they should. Well, also so much of heated rivalry. Rivalry was like spons not sponsored. But a lot of the money was from the Canadian government, different organizations.

[C]

So yeah, Canadian government's an ally.

[B]

Hire a local.

[C]

Yeah. Will we see you in C2 or what?

[B]

I don't know. Let's see.

[C]

Don't know.

[B]

Wouldn't that be starting a rumor?

[C]

I'm starting a rumor.

[B]

Don't worry. I will learn how to skate for that. I'll learn how to become a gay man for that. How's that? How about that?

[D]

You really need to go the distance.

[B]

Truly, I am nothing but committed to the bit.

[C]

As you said, you contain multitudes, and one of those is a gay man in Canada.

[B]

Diva. Diva. Let me tell you, the last time

[C]

you guys all saw each other was Loretto.

[B]

Mm.

[D]

That was the first time I actually ever met you. Well, maybe in passing. In Miami.

[C]

In Miami.

[D]

Like, truly met you, and I even walked away and I told my sister. She's like, she is sharp as a tack.

[C]

Yeah, Sharp as attack.

[D]

Like, just whenever you spoke, I was like, she is saying something like, I need to write down, like, meaningless. I just remember our, like, first conversation about, like, we just started talking about JLP once. And just the way that you were just, like, on the same page. It's getting pushed way too much. Everything. But you were just. I remember when we were talking about something and you were like, you looked it up and you said, oh, there's no peer reviewed study on this. And I was like, what? I would have never thought to just look up to. Has there been a study? Has there been a study about what you're saying?

[B]

But.

[D]

So that's just me complimenting you. I just. I really appreciated your take and your sincerity with that.

[B]

That's so sweet. I will say, like, what a lovely compliment you three are. Talk about sharp as attack and hilarious and smart and kind and powerful. And I feel like you bring everybod up to where you're at. And so, wow, what a compliment from you. Thank you. That's very. That's very kind. I take that to heart.

[D]

And I could tell that you are a writer, and I would like to, like, ask a little bit more about that. You write for who, what, where? How has that been to continue having this arm of your career and expressing yourself that way?

[B]

Because I spent the formative years of my career as a writer, a fashion writer, and then an editor and then director. I was at Glamour for the bulk of that and I was focused on fashion, but I had my own niche and size inclusion. And that was really during kind of the heyday of inclusion. As we look back now, it's like the years that people in the community remember Fondly. So we're talking like 2014-1918. And so that was where I learned like how to use my voice, my words to like create community, be representative of people and change a landscape. And it taught me to all the muscles that I needed to go like start my clothing business for plus sized folks and then to like be in a public platform like Sports Illustrated, being an LGBTQ advocate. And it's nice to answer your question to be back with a column at who at where, just to like put some thoughts on paper once a month, a few words. But yeah, I'm in my 30s now, so I don't necessarily have the stamina to be like constantly writing and editing because I commend everyone who does. It's an around the clock job. You know, like Beyonce has a baby in the middle of the night and like you're working through the night. So I need my beauty sleep these days.

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to with a range of colors to match your vibe. Find your [e-mail] we talk a lot,

[A]

of course, you know, with you as being a body positive advocate and I've been seeing a lot of my people I follow. Is that in the fashion industry recently it seems like we're honestly going backwards. I was watching. Maybe you reposted some of your posted of like, the number of curve models has continued to decline. Is that just with the rise of, you know, skinny? Is that like, do we think it's a cycle that's going to come back around again? Is that just life? Like, it's a fad and then we go through or what? What are your thoughts on this new change?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, overall, if we pull the camera back, I think that, yes, we are seeing like a recessive recession in size, inclusion, but I think that if we look at the graph of inclusion, you know, pulled way back, like the stock market, the S P over like, you know, 50 years or something, it'll look like exactly like the S and P chart where it goes like this. And so that stock will always, always, always rise, but there might be a low that's lower than the high of here, you know what I mean? And so you feel that step back like you, you feel the loss of that representation in movies, tv, fashion, culture, what have you. Because we've come quite a ways and so I think, yes, we are in a dip right now because of medications, because of the, the government, because of economics and, and how they affect people. I think that it also has to do a lot with like, the conversations online about like, conservatism and tradwives and, and what have you and not having women take up space and, and, you know, yada, yada, yada. I won't go too far into that wormhole, but I do think we will see a resurgence. I do think that, as always, it will push a new kind of diversity and a new conversation forward. And, you know, I am excited for that. You can really see it in any trend, like as. As AI is going to get more prevalent and thereby the beauty standard might recede even more to like, whatever you might think of as, like, as an AI woman looks like it will be cooler to be yourself, to be fat, to take up space, to have imperfect skin, to post lo fi photos, to revert to digicams. You know what I mean? Like, it only makes sense that the cool kids who set the new wave of culture are gonna like, not want to do the AI of it all.

[A]

What made you want to go from kind of being behind the camera, you know, writing, to being in front of it and really putting yourself out there in that way.

[B]

I mean, I think my North Star has always been representation and actual offering, whether that's like content, product, or advocacy. And I've kind of tried, like, a lot of the ways to get that done, whether it's been through publishing in Magazines or a product in my business. And it kind of just happens that it was the natural next step, like it was happening that brands were starting to book editors for content stuff. You know, we have to remember this was like 10 years ago. So I had done some early stuff for like, Old Navy and Clinique while I was still an editor. And then I went to my agency, Jag Models, and so that kind of picked up more in front of camera work too. And then since I've been in Sports Illustrated, I've been doing more tv. So, you know, I work a lot in live hosting red carpets and junkets for Etalk Canada. I've been a guest judge on Canada's Drag Race and Project Runway. I do daytime talk shows like the Social and the Good Stuff. And I've been a contestant even on, on the Traders Canada. So I think that I've always just kind of tried every avenue. Like, why, why, why say no? You know what I mean?

[C]

And who are some of your earliest influences into fashion?

[B]

I mean, I think if I really think about it, I. I started loving fashion when I was a teenager. So like the old, older world of fashion, like, I remember keeping my Vogue September 2024 cover issue, and it's like a fold out cover of like the nine supermodels at the time. And, you know, they're all like Eastern bloc, thin and white, except for Leah Kabede, I believe. And so I think that, like, absorbing that version of fashion and that beauty ideal a like, informed my own, like, warped sense of self until I was later able to, like, work on myself and love myself, but also, like, informed what I really wanted to show up

[C]

and change and you mean 2004?

[B]

Yeah. What did I say?

[C]

2024. So I was like, damn, she is.

[B]

Oh, yeah, it all happens so fast.

[C]

Like, she turned around quick on that. Okay, okay, cool. Got you.

[D]

And who's lighting you up right now

[B]

in fashion besides the girl in the mirror? My friend Willie Norris. I'm really obsessed with her work. It's like an intersection of advocacy and fashion design. She's got a look in the Met Institute, and we're working on some collabs for the summer that'll be out soon. Who else? I really love emerging designers. So everybody from, like, the huge end of the scale, like Robert One in London who's like, creating these really, really, I would say, like, almost drag, like couture looks that like, later get worn by, like, Cate Blanchett on a carpet, to folks like Elias Matto, who is an emerging student Designer that I found on social media and wore on Project Runway Canada and then walked the Christian Cowan show because he had made some corsets for Christian Cowan. But I really feel like the magic is in the emerging designers because they're still so artful, and they haven't, like, you know, been downtrodden by the world of retail and the kind of backwards fashion business. So.

[C]

Yeah, what can we get ahead of? What do you predict is coming trend wise? Fashion wise. What kind of sunglasses should I be buying? Or what do you recommend?

[B]

Okay, I have a pair of Balenciagas right now that I highly recommend because everybody compliments them. They're like a shield, and it comes down to the nose bridge. I saw Lisa Rinna wearing them too, so I'll send you a pick, please. And then I. I just love the 90s. Like, wireframe. Like, little. I wish I had them. Imagine you're like, oh, these ones? Yeah, they're upstairs. What sunglasses are you wearing?

[A]

I love.

[C]

Yeah, I'm loving the big. These big things. And I recently got Alona, you got a pair of these kind of more wraparound ones that I was like, God,

[A]

I look so cool.

[C]

Or do I look like I just had a glaucoma test and I need to, like, block my. Or my eyes are dilated. I can't really tell, but I'm gonna go with fashion on this.

[B]

Wait. Are dilated eyes cool, though?

[A]

Maybe your feet kinda hot.

[B]

I have a pair of acne glasses that look like that.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

I will say sunglasses just kind of find me, and I don't really have a choice on if I like them or not. I don't actively seek out sunglasses, so it's.

[C]

It's whatever you find. Those are your sunglasses.

[D]

I don't know if they're in or what, but as long as they're protecting my eyes.

[B]

We love a practical queen. I'm the exact opposite. It could burn my retinas. And if it looked cool, I would be out there every day in them.

[A]

Well, you pushed the boundary on a lot of things. Like, I see some of your red carpet looks and everything. Like, you're doing. You're doing it different, and you're doing it, and you're like, the way you're standing out is so cool. How do you decide that when you go put in look? I think when I put in a look, I'm like, okay, what makes me look? Like, maybe I even use the word flattering? Or what makes me look in a certain way? What are you going for when you put these Outfits on, because a lot of them are something we haven't ever seen before.

[B]

Well, thank you. And I could talk a lot about that, but first I'm gonna say that's not true about yourself. You have amazing style. And also, I love sharp as attack girl who, like, it was like, someone said that you looked pregnant in something and you snapped right back at him. And then the next few looks you wore were, like, midriff looks.

[A]

So I got my belly out.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

I don't know about your level yet, though, Lauren.

[B]

You.

[A]

The stuff you wear.

[B]

So cool.

[A]

All right, get more experiments. I see your outfits.

[C]

I'm like, God, no one's doing it, like, her approved.

[A]

Like, yeah, it's another good one.

[B]

Thanks, girls. Okay. Well, I guess my style. I mean, my style has changed so much since I've, like, embraced my queerness and become really bold with, like, the defiance of that and having fun. Like, I used to dress in a way that really minimized myself. I used clothing, like armor. And since coming out, like, I genuinely love my body, and I think that, like, saggy tits in a flat ass is. Is fine and good because, like, wow, what. What a beautiful thing to have, like, a body. And that's just naturally how it looks. And so I don't worry as much about flattery in the female gaze. I think that being around queer folks and, like, being such a fan of drag and being part of, like, the emerging designer community here has really allowed me to understand clothing in a way that is art and fun and camp and cheeky. And then I think I have these, like, really fun opportunities to, like, put stuff together in a way that I can wear something like that. So this week for Sports Illustrated Swimsuit, I'm wearing a dress made out of oyster shells. You know, two years ago, I wore one that was from an emerging designer called Mario Finito, and it was just a sheet of clear resin, so it was made to look like a bucket of water was thrown at me. And, like, that's drag mama. Like, that. That's not. Like, you can go to a store and buy that dress. That's like creating with queer designers having queer inspiration and then being, like, bold enough to show up and be like, this is my opinion on what's gonna make this moment expressive.

[A]

Now, why do you think your queerness does that for you? Is it cause, like, no longer dressing for a certain gaze or something, or just you finally feel like you've stepped into your truth?

[B]

I mean, both. Totally. Both on. On the former, like, I used to live in the male gaze in a way that I just felt like I was so wrong. Like, I am not the male gaze beauty ideal. I'm not white, I'm not thin, I'm not straight, I'm not blonde, what have you. And so I always, like, I can feel my body doing it now, actually. I'm like curling in. Like, I just felt like I should always be solving a problem. And like, I wasn't beautiful and I wasn't sexy and that was all up to someone else to decide. And then what gets taught to us is that your clothes and your beauty and how you show up is meant to fix those things that are wrong with you. Right. And so, and I just, yeah, I didn't, I didn't feel comfortable at all in any way. And then like, to what you said later, like, yeah, and now I feel like myself and I feel confident in how well I know myself. So that when I again, don't feel like I belong in that male gaze, I don't go to the solutions of solving it. I go to. And that's because that's not me. And that's that defiance I was talking about. Like, because I'm on solid ground, I, I, I, I really, really like to defy things because it makes me feel like I get closer to like, who I actually am, am, and what I actually want to say.

[D]

I like that about you're not dressing to fix a problem. Your body is not the problem. I think that's still ingrained in me, like when I'm dressing, like, oh, I don't like my arms. Let me do that. Oh, like, well, if I have like this sort of figure, my genes need to hit here. And you recently had a wonderful article talking about silhouette and flattering. And I, I read that and I was like, oh, she's so, you're so right on that.

[A]

About.

[D]

Not everything needs to accentuate what is deemed to be beautiful. And I think that also goes hand in hand a little bit with the rise of lesbian aesthetic in fashion. You know, the oversized blazers and the slicked back hair and all of those.

[B]

No, because I'm right. And it's so heady and it's hard to put into words. And so sometimes, like, I was just thinking while you're talking, I was like, what's an example of, like, how I can explain this? So last year, last year to the Victoria's Secret Fashion show, I wore a top by Hodakova. The top, we'll put it in quotation marks, is made out of upcycled bras. So the. The bras run vertically, and they're stitched together to make a top. How cool. How camp. It's like, so on the nose. It's so unique. Like, how exciting to wear to the fashion show about how to look perfect in a bra, right? That said, I get it on. And because the bras are kind of, like, mismatched and sewn together in a unique way, one of my tits was high, and one of my tits was low because that's where the bras sat. And my old version of myself would have said, I absolutely cannot wear this. Boobs are supposed to be high, round, symmetrical, like, in their perfect place. Because that's how society tells us men wants to look. Men want to look at tits. Now that I'm in the female gaze, I thought, you know what? No girl is gonna come up to me and say that. They're gonna say, holy shit, is that made out of bras? That's so cool. Where did you get that? And that's kind of like what it feels like to get dressed on the side of the female gaze.

[C]

And do you still have those moments where, like, you see one boob up here, one boob down there. How do you still have to. Actively.

[A]

Every morning.

[C]

Every morning. I know that that's right.

[A]

I will say that. And that's just a lie. Is like, men only want the big boobs. Coming from a straight woman, it's like, that's something I always. That's what they want. That's it. And then I get with these men, and I'm like, you know, I have tiny boobs. You're like, I like them. I'm like, oh, oh, you don't care. You just like boobs, huh? So I just think it's so interesting. We're also feeding into this and about what these men want. And then you ask. Of course, there's some men who want it. And then you ask somebody like, nah, I think they're great. I'm like, oh, yeah. Oh, okay.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I guess.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just so interesting. We've kind of.

[B]

These old things.

[A]

These old things. We've, like, so brainwashed ourselves. And even I brainwashed myself. Like, when I see my sister's boobs, I'm like, those. Well, that's what. That's what men want anyway. I'm working on it.

[D]

You're unlearning it.

[B]

No, I. Listen, I think that, like, it's. There's a similar. As I hoist them up. Listen, girl. Listen, Alona. There's a similar conversation with the word plus size when it pertains to models versus clothes. And it's not apples to apples, it's apples to oranges. And I think that the same thing can apply to, like, men. And so like, a lot of the time we're talking about men in a broad sense under the patriarchy and like, how women are oppressed by that, that overarching theme or force of men. And then, like, there are so many men who don't subscribe to that and do a great job of being active against that. And like, don't worry, baby boy, we're not talking about you.

[D]

You're fine.

[B]

You're okay. Keep going.

[D]

You know you're safe.

[A]

Absolutely. Everyone name a man they think is cool. Go around Hudson Williams.

[C]

Name a man.

[A]

I'll take him.

[C]

Oh, no.

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[C]

us about your love story? Because I heard something about a PowerPoint presentation proposal and I am so curious to hear more.

[B]

Wait, that's true. That's true. So my wife Hayley and I got married last fall, and she proposed the summer before with a PowerPoint presentation. I could change that to Canva. If they want to call and offer sponsorship at any point.

[C]

Anytime. Canva pick up the phone.

[B]

But, okay, so she proposed in a slideshow. Because when we got in our first fight, I kind of like, it was a situation where I had to kind of like, go over to her place the next day, kind of being like, like, I'm so sorry. Like, please, you know, it's. It's. You know, I'll work on it. Da, da, da, da. And I walked in, like, tail between my legs, like, you know, we all know that morning after feeling. And she goes, sit down. The meeting's about to start. And I was like, what? Like, I know she's so funny. She's so funny and she's so good at a bit and she's so creative, but, like, it was not the time for it, you know, Like, I was not. I was like, what's going on? And she, like, clicks on her TV and there's a slideshow, raccoon themed, about why we shouldn't fight and why we're so perfect for each other. And like, I just was so. I mean, I would have said yes that day. And I later told my therapist about that, and he plot twist was like, that's how it's supposed to feel. You know, that's how it's supposed to be. So she now makes me slide shows on, like, birthdays or special moments or to propose to me.

[A]

And you had a very chic wedding.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I saw the pictures. You went to, like, a Chinese restaurant. You looked awesome. Tell me about it.

[B]

Well, you know, when you get to have a second take, you've learned some things the first time. So, yeah, we kind of. We just wanted to make it feel like, true to life. You know, we live in New York City. I'm Chinese. We love to go to a queer space. We love drag. And so that's kind of, like, everything that our. Our, like, celebrations, I guess, involved. We got married at City hall, and then a little while after that, we went to Wohop for Chinese dinner. It was so fun. And then we had our wedding at no Bar, which is the standard East Village's queer bar. We had some friends do drag, and that kind of, like, carried us over into our after party at Alan Cummings Bar, Club Cumming. Yeah. So it was a blast.

[D]

And Was there a PowerPoint presentation at the wedding?

[B]

No, we thought about that. We thought about it, I think. Yeah. I don't. I can't remember why we didn't do it. Maybe we were just, like, kind of, like, too overwhelmed by all the other stuff to plan or. I don't know. Maybe I was just like, that's just for me.

[C]

That's just for you. Good for you. Keep that.

[D]

That's yours.

[C]

Did you bring. Did either of you bring a tradition from each of your lives that you now do together?

[B]

God, I guess this is. You're gonna puke. We just, like, fit together so well that I can't even, like, delineate when living together really started to gel and when things kind of came together, honestly, I don't know. I will say that the, like, group of shared friends that we have, we just, like, made doing laps of the park with the dog. And that is really special because we see them, like, most days, and we travel together now as a group, and it's just. Yeah, that's been really special. And that's something that we made, like, together, you know?

[C]

Is there anything you both got rid of? Any traditions you decided to nix?

[B]

A husband.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[B]

Love to him. Love to him. In all seriousness, traditions I decided to nix. I don't know. I feel like, honestly, we just have bucked so much tradition. Like, we didn't really do anything that didn't feel authentic to us. I think that we try to live that way as well. Listen, I do a lot less. I guess I like stress less. That's such, like, a broad thing to say. But honestly, I just feel like I used to be in this apartment, like, just, like, so much more stressed about work or if I had to travel the next week or whatever, and things just really, like, flow better now with. With Haley.

[A]

And I've seen you, too. Super in love. I have questions. So you came out when you were 32, right? Before that, were you just, like, girls are pretty, but men are My thing. Tell us how you came in.

[B]

Men are my thing. Hey, hey,

[A]

that was your thing back then. Lauren, how did you really. I don't know if I, you know, decide to live in your truth, as you're saying, in your queerness and what made it okay. Cause I mean, 32 is definitely old, but there's no age where, you know, it was right to come out. But.

[C]

But yeah, how, how did it feel?

[A]

Right.

[B]

The real answer to that is I didn't know that I wasn't feeling desire. And like, I didn't really know that part of myself was broken. I just. Oh God, that's like such a long, complicated answer. But like, okay, so I was raised in a way, way that is really like, was really ambition driven, you know, by like a Chinese family. I was good at school, I was good at sports, and I knew I was going to be good at whatever I decided to pour myself into for work. And then I didn't have an environment where I was necessarily taught like, to process or put my emotions at the forefront of things. And then you like, spin that into like a real life of like somebody who's constantly focused on work and ambition and doesn't like feel themselves or their body and kind of like can do without boys. Like, I really didn't like, date around and like, was not boy crazy. My ex husband was like family to me. Like, I would still absolutely go to bat for that man. And so we had like a really beautiful relationship for a long time. And I don't think it's a failure because it ended after 10 or 11 years. I thought that, you know, we really raised each other and it just so happened that we grew in different directions. And it was because of that safety and that family that I was able to learn this new part about myself, you know. And so he created that environment in a really loving way. He co created that environment in a really loving way. So it's not that I was not into the relationship, but my desire was broken. I did not know what desire felt like. I did not know how to clock it. If I saw a woman that was pretty, I maybe thought that it was, was like my brain being like, I like her outfit or I like this or that. And perhaps that's why I liked fashion in the first place, right? Because I was drawn to women, but was able to explain it to my young self as, oh, you really like fashion? Oh, that's deep. So there was so much going on back here that I just didn't know how to figure out. I didn't even know what questions to ask to figure it out. And then when I met Haley, that desire really came to the forefront and I was like, what is happening? What? Whoa. So I was at a place in my life where I had the space and the tools and the mental health to like, dive into that, pun intended, and figure it out.

[C]

What was your first pride like?

[B]

Oh, my God. My first pride was in Toronto at home. It was so good. That's such a good question. That is so sweet of you to ask. Come on, Ally. Wow.

[C]

What a good pride.

[B]

I actually have a poem from my first pride because there was someone on the street making those like typewriter poems. You know, for like 20 bucks or whatever, they'll write you something. And they're like, what do you want to talk about? And I was like, it's my first pride. I wish I knew it by. By heart, but it's framed upstairs. But yeah, it was really special. So I went with Haley and some of my, my long time, like since 11 years old friends.

[D]

And has pride changed for you since you've married Haley?

[B]

Yeah, I. I don't know if like since I've married Haley, but as I have like now been on this like four year journey, it has. I have understood it better. I understand and in my community better. And I'm more entrenched in my community. I feel connected and enamored by my role in that community. And I really believe in my devoid my voice and like that defiance and, and joy that is beautiful combination of pride. And so, yeah, like at this point, I designed this shirt this year for a Pride collection with Joe Fresh in Canada. You know, I get to go back to Toronto for pride this year for the second ever time. And I also just have more fun with my friends in New York City because I just feel so lucky that I am really genuinely feel like part of the community here.

[D]

Well, happy almost June.

[B]

Thank you. Happy pride.

[C]

Your whole love story and just the way you speak about each other and like having met you guys and hung out with you in person, I'm just like so happy for you.

[B]

Oh, thank you.

[A]

How did, how did Haley feel last year at swim week when you came out with that, that cowboy on and you had that whip on you? I just know Haley was loving that.

[B]

Well, Haley was working because mommy told her to, because I needed good footage of that.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So, yeah, she was being a professional.

[C]

Yeah, she was angles. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, she really liked it. I think, like, listen, the, the best part of that particular walk was that I walked with Jordan Chiles. And so that had us fucking pumped. Like, on my return walk back, she did a flip as I, like, whipped the whip.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I remember.

[C]

That was great.

[B]

Yeah, that was the moment. So we were really excited about that. We love Jordan. Huge fan. Yeah. But actually, she's gonna kill me if I tell you this, but. So I was just working for, like, 10 days in Canada, and I came home, and she had purchased and set up a cutout of me from that fashion show in our home. So it's currently upstairs. And she got tipsy and was flirting with it the other night. So I don't know how I deal

[C]

with that, but I wish you had it next to you so you could be like. And here it is.

[A]

Could you. Could you imagine having someone so obsessed with you? And not in a stalkerish way, of course. That'd be crazy. But just so obsessed with you in a loving way. They get a print out of you

[C]

sleeping in traffic tonight.

[B]

Here, I'll tell her to come give it to us. Hold on.

[A]

Bring it.

[D]

But that thing is also going to scare you.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[D]

We used to have a cutout in our house. And the way we always thought there was an intruder because you.

[B]

No, yeah, I have. I was. Well, when I first saw it, I was very frightened.

[C]

Oh, I see some movement in the reflect. I see it in this. In the. The frame behind you.

[A]

Hi, Haley.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Wow. Sexy, sexy lady.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I might start flirting with that, too. Can we.

[C]

Can we enhance Haley in the frame behind. Can we get. Can we get a closer on her smiling back there?

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

You look incredible. And then she knows me so well. She was like, you know, in two days, you're gonna be like, I'm gonna catch you, like, staring at it in the hallway, being like, God, so good.

[D]

God, it looks so good.

[C]

You're gonna whisper sweet nothing to it.

[B]

Because my makeup artist in Miami, Gabe, is so incredible, I'm gonna put his handle in the show notes because everybody needs a little Gabe.

[C]

Yeah. That's awesome. You look so good.

[A]

Thank you. You know, as my life has changed and as our lives change, what is your definition of success now and what are you looking for in life? I guess just a simple one.

[B]

Totally. Listen, I am, truthfully, somebody who's pretty, like, resource anxious. And so I feel like, even though I've done well and I've been so lucky to, like, do things that I really care about and on my own terms, I, like, always kind of felt like I've been, like, clawing to the next thing and making sure everything's going to be okay and how the booking is going to stop, and if they stop tomorrow, what will I do? And blah, blah, blah. And so success to me looks like not being in a place where I don't have to worry about that. And I do feel like I'm getting there in that I don't feel as rigid about my career. And so, you know, I've been an editor, I've been a founder, I've been a model, I'm working in TV now I'm writing a book, which is so exciting. But I also feel like if I ever, like, you know, was in a financial place that, like, I was gonna go bartend at a lesbian bar a few nights a week, I feel like that would be so fun, and I would love that. I would, like, genuinely enjoy that, and that would feel like success to me. Whereas if you asked me that, like, 10 years ago, I might feel like that was like, a failure. I might feel like that was a dip like we were talking about earlier or a step back. So I think I'm in a place in my life and, you know, I'll look back in 20 years and be like, oh, hilarious. You were such a baby. But I think I'm starting to figure out, like, really that juice of, like, what it means to be embodied, what it means to design your life, like, how to buck everything you got, like, told was what you were supposed to. To be or do or look like. And that feels really good.

[A]

Just had to know. Just a simple question.

[B]

How do you define. I really should ask you, how do you all define success? Because I feel like you are some of the most successful people, at least that I have in my sphere and that I look up to. And what I mean by that is the way that you craft your lives and work.

[C]

Thank you so much.

[A]

I mean, as younger me and success was so, like, what's happening in that moment? So it was winning a medal or it was. I try to. I'm bad at this. But being so present of, like, winning the next tournament, doing this, or winning the next game, I think success has now become. With the monetary success I've had and being able to, you know, live the way I want to, which is such a blessing and money does do a lot. It can buy some happiness. But doing things that I genuinely enjoy and having that freedom and creating something and can staying the person that I am throughout it all, because there's so many factors. And as I get more famous or less or whatever, it is I think I've been successful in staying pretty the same.

[C]

I had a bit of a revelation about it a couple years ago when I was an assistant in Hollywood. Where some people might see it as like, oh, you're, you're just an assistant. But I loved what I did and to me that was success. Like my college was like, you're doing cool things in Hollywood. Will you come speak to the graduating class? I was like, I am doing cool things in Hollywood. Like I'm not, you know, so many people, it's so many far reaching things. But I in the moment enjoyed what I did. I love my little tasks as an assistant. I got to meet so many cool people. I got to move to Los Angeles. So like enjoying what I was doing was just such a marker of success for me at that point. And I think I've carried that through to today. I yap with my sisters. This is, are you kidding me? This, I'm the most successful person in the world. Like, I just. Yeah, it's the mark of how much I'm enjoying what I'm doing and how authentically I'm putting myself into it. I think.

[D]

I feel like I don't have a great answer because I personally don't know at the moment. I had a big career shift. I was working in the nonprofit space and for me that was what I wanted to do after college and I did it and I was very happy to just coast in that. And, and so now doing this, I don't really know what the light at the end is or what the success is. I think sometimes the only thing that is almost tangible to me is like numbers focused of whether it is monetary or if it's like follower growth. And I feel sometimes too caught up in that and it feels sometimes very icky. And so I guess I'm trying to not redefine, but just frankly define success and learn it in my life.

[B]

Yeah, it's so real. I mean, I feel like that makes a lot of sense to what we like kind of just spoke about in terms of like growing older. Right. It's like you aren't necessarily supposed to know how to redefine things for yourself when you're younger. And I can't wait to be in my 40s and 50s. I literally cannot wait.

[C]

I love a quote and I just saw one that was like, I can't wait to see why it didn't work out. Like, you know, certain things, you're welcome. I just love it, you know, because the things you think you want and whether you got them or not, there's a reason. And look where you still are. Now, on that note, let's go into our little section we like to call Try Hard.

[A]

Okay. Try hard. Lauren, you are a sports woman, but I don't think you've ever played rugby, have you?

[B]

No.

[A]

We should get you out on that pitch. When you score in rugby, it's called a try. So right now, you're gonna try as hard as you can to answer these questions as quickly as possible.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

For example, what is your favorite meme right now?

[B]

I'm doing so good. I'm doing so good. Honestly, I should just quit. Well, in my head, my favorite meme right now, I just posted a picture of the earth like a globe, and she's got two huge earth titties, and it says, do I look flat to you?

[C]

Hey, she's my favorite with the big naturals. Okay. As a Canadian, what's one American trend you'll never understand?

[B]

I want to say Republicanism.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But maybe I'll say the lack of poutine.

[A]

Right? Okay.

[D]

Question, answer.

[C]

We're purists about poutine, Putin, whatever. When people do like, oh, it's bacon and bourbon, and I'm like, what are we doing? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Quit remixing it. Poutine is what it is, right? You feel the same.

[B]

At least get it right from the baseline before you do that. And here we have all these options that just, like, aren't. No one even tries to do the right curds, the right gravy on a good, like, fry.

[A]

The amount of times I've seen just,

[D]

like, mozzarella instead of curds.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[D]

Jesus.

[A]

It's crazy that it's just, like. It's not. I know we do gravy fries, but it has not seeped into America.

[C]

Like, it doesn't blow the border, Right?

[A]

It does not go below the border.

[C]

No.

[A]

Are we dumb? Like, why have we not taken that?

[D]

Like, we would love it.

[C]

Because we're not doing it right. That's the problem. Like, we bring it down here. We're not doing it right.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

And obviously, we are very strong opinion on this, but being from Vermont, so, like, famously, I love Canadian Costco's poutine. That kind of slap sometimes. I'll tell you what.

[A]

Sometimes McDonald's poutine I've had before, too.

[C]

It's good, too.

[B]

We all need to go to Montremblant and, like, have Montreal.

[A]

Like, we love that place.

[C]

We must.

[D]

That's really Good.

[C]

Oh, my gosh. We should go.

[B]

Si. 20, 27.

[C]

On slopes. All of us have been.

[B]

I know a guy I could call.

[D]

You're well connected.

[C]

You're well connected up north.

[D]

Si. How much do you think a bikini should cost, Max, Per piece.

[B]

Oh, but, like, I'm psycho. Like, that bra top cost me, like, $700.

[D]

Right.

[C]

You know? Right.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But, like, per piece, Max. I also had a clothing line, and I know what labor costs, and anything under a certain amount is just, like, scary to get into and not to, like, be a total Debbie Downer. So I'll say, let's say $100 a piece. Okay.

[C]

Your experience on Traders Canada, you were faithful. Do you think you could have won as a trader?

[B]

100%.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Would you go back?

[B]

Yes. But I am so obsessed with Karine Van Ness, our host, that I would love to be her, like, henchman. Like, in the American version, Alan Cumming has a henchman. So I would like to be Karine's right hand. I would do whatever that woman told me to do.

[D]

I mean, what was your dream job when you were a kid?

[B]

Guys, it was, like, fashion editor, designer, model. Y thing.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It's happening.

[D]

And that's beautiful.

[B]

And there was a brief moment I wanted to be a dentist.

[C]

Okay. Hell, yeah.

[D]

You know, why not?

[C]

Why not?

[A]

What would be on your family crest? You and Haley's crest. What's on it?

[B]

Our dog Pepper would be in the middle. A basketball. A pair of big naturals.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And. Yeah, that. That feels right.

[A]

And a PowerPoint.

[B]

Yeah, it just, like, dot ppt at the bottom.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I actually. I have it. No, I'm just kidding. I just have the stamp of the Kosan Chan family crest.

[C]

What is the last book that you loved?

[B]

Ooh, the last book that I loved. Like, loved, loved. I know I'm supposed to be going fast. The long game. The long game. Rachel Reid's the long game. I can't wait to see it come to life.

[D]

That's a great one.

[C]

Yeah. That'll be the next season.

[D]

That's Alien, Shane's second book. Right.

[B]

There's a scene where they do a fake wedding with their friends, kids, because the kids are playing with them and making them do it, and it's so touching. And then, you know, they come out to their agent, and, I mean, the world in that book. But I came out to my agents, like, sitting on a couch, and I just know it's gonna be. It's gonna be really, like, heartfelt and so special. This. This book on the screen.

[C]

Yeah, I love that. And if there was a book, we're obviously big readers here. Is there a book that you wish everyone would read besides Elonge by Rachel Reed?

[B]

Yeah. It's a not a fiction answer. It's Breaking the Habit of being yourself by Dr. Joe Dispenza. Oh. It's about like the. The science behind, quote unquote, manifesting. So if you were like a doubter or a cynic and not like very woo woo or whatever you want to call it, like I was, it's a great book to explain how the concept of manifesting something actually works.

[A]

Write that down. And last one, you said a little bit about your writing a book. Are you writing a memoir? Are you writing your own fiction story? Tell us about it. We're all big readers.

[B]

Yeah. It's lesbian smut.

[C]

Yay.

[A]

You're like, haley, I gotta try something out for the book.

[C]

It's for the book. This is research.

[B]

It's called method writing.

[C]

Look it up. I'm a professional. Well, send us an advanced copy because

[D]

I'll read that, we'll plug it, don't even worry.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You had two scientists on the pod today.

[D]

Well, thank you so much.

[B]

Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be a fourth sister adopted for the day. Good luck getting rid of me.

[C]

Let's go shoot in Canada and eat poutine altogether. Yeah.

[D]

And bring the cardboard cutout.

[C]

Bring the cardboard cutout.

[D]

Thanks so much for coming over to the House of Mar, a wave original.

[A]

Be sure to watch, subscribe on YouTube and listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[C]

Plus follow the show on social media at House of Mar for clips and behind the scenes content.

[A]

Bye, Lauren. See you, girl.

[B]

Bye, darling.