Daredevil w/ Ed Brubaker (Classic)

Summary

How Did This Get Made? — Daredevil (2003) w/ Ed Brubaker (Classic)

Episode Aired: June 2, 2026
Hosts: Paul Scheer, June Diane Raphael, Jason Mantzoukas
Guest: Ed Brubaker (comic writer: Criminal, Fatale, Captain America, Daredevil)

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Main Theme

A hilarious deep dive into the much-maligned 2003 superhero film Daredevil (starring Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner), with a special focus on why it turned out the way it did. The episode features comic book writer and Daredevil expert Ed Brubaker, who helps break down the movie’s odd choices, fidelity (or lack thereof) to the comics, and lasting legacy as both a failed and unintentionally amusing piece of superhero cinema. The group compares the theatrical and director’s cuts, debates the effectiveness of its romantic subplot, and riffs on superhero tropes, casting what-ifs, and unforgettable oddities of the film.

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1. First Impressions & Group Dynamics

[02:02]

• Paul sets the tone: “Let’s wallow in the mediocrity of subpar art.”
• Jason introduces Ed Brubaker as “a man who knows no fear of plot, story or compelling characters.”
• Ed Brubaker deadpans: “For this movie, I’m pretty much an expert. Yeah.”
• Financial vs. Artistic Success: Jason: “Not a failure of a movie…financially.”
• They discuss the film's two versions: theatrical and director’s cut, with Ed noting, “They’re both very hard to pay attention to…real boring and slow. The fight scenes are so slow and clumsy.” [03:14]
• Surprise Hot Take: June: “I loved it.” [03:59] — Shocking the group, especially Paul (“Holy shit. I don’t think I ever heard that from a human being.”)

2. The Origin Story (and Its Bizarre Alterations)

[05:54], [06:39]

• Major deviation from comics: Ed: “In the origin story, he’s blinded rescuing someone; here, his dad basically causes the accident.”
• Ed highlights missed or muddled details, such as Matt’s powers coming from “radioactive waste” but June admits, “I just thought he committed so hard to being blind.” [08:01]
• Discussion about heightened senses, superhero tropes, and the absence of the “Stick” character who traditionally trains Daredevil.
• Jason summarizes the problem: “They neither do an origin story to its completion, nor do they tell an effective criminal story…it feels like the middle of something bigger.” [08:57]

3. Courtroom Confusion

[10:10]

• Paul: “What the fuck is going on there? There are two defense attorneys. Where the fuck are the prosecutors? Is this a civil case?”
• The casting and staging of courtroom scenes leads to more questions than answers, with Jason describing the legal scenes as using comic book “Dutch angles”—but only in court.
• June notes Daredevil’s moral inconsistencies: “He seems in one sense, very suspect of the justice system, and yet he’s always calling for the police…” [11:06]

4. The Bar Brawl, Vigilante Justice, and Morality

[12:17]

• Discussion of Daredevil’s brutal methods: Paul: “He basically kills a guy, the first guy he goes after.”
• Notable moral disconnect: Ed: “In Frank Miller’s comics, Matt Murdock would never let someone die—even Bullseye—yet here, he lets the rapist Cassada die.”
• Jason on the movie’s structure: “You have this origin story, then you go into this rapist story that’s not tied to Kingpin, then Elektra comes in…it’s a mess.” [13:52]

5. The Director’s Cut vs Theatrical Cut (Coolio Alert!)

[17:45], [22:11]

• The Director’s Cut introduces a whole secondary storyline with Coolio as a framed murder suspect, and more “lawyering” between Matt and Foggy—tying Kingpin into the plot more tightly.
• Romance takes a backseat in the director’s version compared to the theatrical.
• Group agrees: Director’s Cut is better, though still messy. Paul: “You’re never gonna love the Daredevil movie other than June, but the director’s cut is closer to what you expect…” [22:11]

6. Romance/Meet Cute Mockery

[26:06], [44:24]

• The love story between Matt and Elektra is highlighted as central, with June emotionally invested: “It was a love story at heart.”
• The infamous “playground fight/dance scene” is dissected for its length and unconvincing action. Jason: “A scene that took four days to shoot…looks like garbage.” [44:32]
• June: “I teared up when [Elektra] died. I was hoping against hope she would come back somehow.” [04:25]

7. Notable Quotes & Moments

On superhero tropes:

• Ed: “It’s almost like Daredevil’s great weakness is noise. Noise. His kryptonite is noise.” [12:09]
• Paul: “All of a sudden, the pool table is on fire…how is the pool table on fire?” [13:07]

On Affleck and Costuming:

• Jason: “Ben Affleck stated he would never reprise the role. Wearing a costume was a source of humiliation for me and something I would never want to do again.” [19:55]

On Bullseye (Colin Farrell):

• Ed: “He has a move…I’m gonna treat [the bullseye scar] like a nipple. He multiple times, like, fingers the bullseye on his head, and he’s, like, excited…” [35:58]
• Jason: “He’s a real cartoon. He’s like, oh yeah, this is a cartoon movie. I’m a cartoon.” [35:52]
• On Bullseye’s plane murder: “How do you kill someone with one nut? Was it a nut allergy? She choked—she choked on something that small?” [35:29]

On the movie’s “blindness” references:

• Group laughs at the motif: “They just are always referencing…this is a blind guy.” [46:38]
• June critiques Elektra: “She says to him, ‘I really wish you could see me tonight.’ Well, he can't. That's mean.” [47:14]

On the sets:

• Jason: “Every sidewalk, street corner—they look like the Seinfeld sets.” [20:46]
• Ed: “Please don’t freak out about how we’re coming down on sitcom streets. We’re not trying to start a war.” [21:15]

8. Comic Book Fidelity and Odd Choices

[33:14], [36:31]

• The group picks apart the changes from comics—Elektra’s backstory, the origin of Bullseye’s mark, the mixing of tones and storylines.
• Ed walks through the comic Elektra’s arc: “She’s a villain for many years, then goes good because she realizes Daredevil is the one love of her life…in the comics, she dies saving Foggy.” [33:22]
• Paul: “They wind up with nothing, and they no story, by trying to tell all the stories.” [59:55]

9. Casting What-Ifs & Behind the Scenes

• Affleck wore actual “blind” contacts for authenticity [29:34]
• Jason lists casting alternatives: “Matt Damon, Ed Norton, Guy Pierce…Cuba Gooding Jr. wanted the lead but was never approached.” [28:33]
• The group riffs on future reboots (Jason Statham as Daredevil, Vin Diesel as Kingpin, Nic Cage as a villain), and marvel at the different direction Marvel Studios could take now the rights are back. [48:27]

10. Second Opinions (Amazon Reviews)

[51:10]

• Hilarious readings of 5-star Amazon reviews for Daredevil:
  • “I love this movie and so did my ex wife…sometimes I watch this movie and cry because I miss my ex wife.” [51:57]
  • “Michael Clark Duncan is strong. Whenever life is walking all over me, I just watch any scene with Bullseye and laugh my ass off.” [52:08]
  • “The story is original. I haven’t seen any other films about blind superheroes. Have you?” [52:46]
  • “Forget Ben Affleck…check out Irish heartthrob Colin Farrell. This man is as hot as chili wings in Palm Springs.” [54:00]

11. Final Thoughts, Recommendations, and Plugs

[57:24], [59:32]

• Would they recommend the film?
  • Ed: “It’s a bummer because it’s a missed opportunity more than it is a terrible movie…So I’d say: say no.” [57:24]
  • Paul: “It’s not engaging. Even the director’s cut—I found myself glancing away... If you’re a Daredevil fan, check it out for completion sake.” [58:01]
  • June: “I guess I would say 100%, yes.” [58:44]
• The group agrees Daredevil tries to do too much, with too many nods to the comics but not enough true heart or focus.
• Ed plugs his new comic Velvet, June plugs Ass Backwards, and everyone jokes about sitcom sets and sitcom fandom wars.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “I loved it. I enjoyed it.” – June Diane Raphael (04:05)
• “It’s almost like Daredevil’s great weakness is noise. His kryptonite is noise.” – Ed Brubaker (12:09)
• “They neither do an origin story to its completion, nor do they tell an effective criminal story.” – Jason Mantzoukas (08:57)
• “Ben Affleck stated... Wearing a costume was a source of humiliation for me and something I would never want to do again.” – Jason Mantzoukas (19:55)
• “Every sidewalk, street corner—they look like the Seinfeld sets.” – Jason Mantzoukas (20:46)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [03:14] Critique of slow/clumsy fight scenes
• [04:05] June’s “I loved it” confession
• [13:52] Comic homage vs poor adaptation
• [17:45] Director’s Cut and the Coolio subplot
• [19:55] Ben Affleck superhero costume quote
• [22:11] Closer fidelity in Director’s Cut (but still flawed)
• [33:14] Elektra’s comic backstory explained
• [35:58] Bullseye’s “nipple” scar move analysis
• [44:32] Playground fight/dance scene breakdown
• [46:38] Running gag: blindness references compilation
• [51:10] Reading of earnest Amazon 5-star reviews
• [57:24] Would you recommend? Roundtable
• [59:32] Final thoughts on adaptation and what went wrong

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Tone and Energy

The episode is goofy and affectionately merciless, combining comic nerd expertise (Ed, Paul) with outsider perspective (June), and mixing serious complaints with comic riffs and digressions. The hosts riff on details both minute (drugstore chewed pills, fake sets, Bullseye’s snake-jacket sound effect) and broad (structure, fidelity, casting), keeping the pace light and irreverent.

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Verdict:
Worth listening for fans of the podcast or those curious about how a blockbuster went so wrong—and why, despite everything, some people (June! Amazon reviewers!) genuinely love it. If you haven’t seen Daredevil, you’ll get all the context, laughs, and “so-bad-it’s-good” takeaways you need.

As Paul sums up: “It sounds more interesting when we talk about it than it actually plays.” [58:16]

Transcript

[Paul Scheer]

From origin to legend.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I need to become a symbol. I need to become Batman.

[Paul Scheer]

Become the hero.

[June Diane Raphael]

Someone's gotta step up, build the legacy.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Let's get to work.

[Paul Scheer]

You wanna get nuts?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Let's get nuts.

[Ed Brubaker]

I'm allergic to nuts.

[Paul Scheer]

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[Ed Brubaker]

This is my favorite part.

[Paul Scheer]

Out now on PlayStation 5, Xbox Series XS and PC. Rated E10 for ages 10 and up. Need to pay a friend back for

[Jason Manzoukas]

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[June Diane Raphael]

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[Jason Manzoukas]

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[Paul Scheer]

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[June Diane Raphael]

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[Jason Manzoukas]

Send cash right in the chat with Apple Cash. Apple Cash services are provided by Green

[Paul Scheer]

bank member FDIC terms apply.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Let me tell you something, people. When you have a bad hire at your job, it wrecks everything, okay? It costs you time, it costs you money, it costs you momentum. And when you're a small business, you can't afford that. You need a good hire and you need it right away. But finding great talent isn't easy. So that's where LinkedIn's new hiring pro can screen candidates for you. So instead of sorting through applicants, you spend time talking to the right ones. Started by posting your job for [e-mail] valuable terms and conditions apply. Now, I want to talk to you about a man who knows no fear of plot, story or compelling characters. We saw Daredevil, so you know what that means. Now it's time for failure. Not just be a hater. Could you know, you wonder, how did this remain?

[Paul Scheer]

Let's wallow in the mediocrity of subpar art.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Perhaps we'll find the answer to the question, how did this get made? Hello, people of Earth, and welcome to how did this get Made? I am Paul Scheer, joined as always by my two co hosts, Jason Manzoukas. How are you, Jason?

[Ed Brubaker]

I'm good, Paul.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And June, Diane Rayfield. How are you, June?

[June Diane Raphael]

I'm great, thanks, Paul.

[Jason Manzoukas]

We have a very special treat today. We have writer extraordinaire Ed Brubaker joining us. You might know him from the criminal series Fatale, Captain America and Daredevil, which is very excited to have you. You are an expert.

[Paul Scheer]

Actually, for this movie, I'm pretty much an expert. Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

So Daredevil, not a failure of a movie. We should say that right at the top. Like, as far as.

[Ed Brubaker]

You mean in terms of making money?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Okay. Financially, made a lot.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It spawned a sequel with not Daredevil with Elektra spinoff. Spinoff.

[Paul Scheer]

It was a backdoor pilot for the Elektra movie series.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, now there's two movies. There's two cuts of. There's a theatrical cut and the director's cut. Ed, you've watched them both?

[Paul Scheer]

I watched them both in the last 24 hours, yes. Did you lose your mind a little bit? Yeah. They're both very hard to pay attention to. I mean, you've seen the theatrical.

[Ed Brubaker]

It is real. Real boring and slow. Like the fight scenes, shockingly, are so slow and clumsy.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The fight scenes look like they date badly. Yes, specifically. And this is the guy.

[Ed Brubaker]

Both actors and fight Sc.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, I mean, don't. The whole movie looks like there's a big fight scene between Elektra and Daredevil. And that looks like they were not touching. They're not really fighting. It looks like they were.

[Ed Brubaker]

It looks like they shot the. Let's just do it 60% right now. To rehearse.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right? Exactly.

[Ed Brubaker]

And they were like, hey, you guys know something? We were actually rolling on that. I think we got it.

[June Diane Raphael]

I have to say, I think we're good. I have to say something up front.

[Jason Manzoukas]

This is gonna blow your mind. I know this already.

[June Diane Raphael]

I loved it.

[Paul Scheer]

Holy shit. I don't think I ever heard that from a human being. Wait.

[June Diane Raphael]

I loved it.

[Ed Brubaker]

What are you talking about?

[June Diane Raphael]

I loved it. I enjoyed it.

[Ed Brubaker]

Wow. In what way?

[June Diane Raphael]

I enjoyed that scene. You're talking about in the seesaw. Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

No.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes, I did.

[Paul Scheer]

No seesaw scene.

[June Diane Raphael]

I love the seesaw scene. I love them together. I teared up when she died.

[Ed Brubaker]

No, you didn't.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes, I did. I was hoping against hope she would come back somehow.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, she got a sequel.

[Ed Brubaker]

She did.

[Jason Manzoukas]

She got a sequel.

[June Diane Raphael]

I didn't even know about this sequel. I'm excited to see.

[Ed Brubaker]

Oh, my God.

[June Diane Raphael]

I really enjoyed it.

[Paul Scheer]

Wow.

[June Diane Raphael]

And here's what I think I connected to the most. The fact that. And again, I don't know superheroes. I don't know the comic book world, but the fact that he was.

[Ed Brubaker]

You don't know that world.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That's not a world below tornadoes.

[June Diane Raphael]

Way below tornadoes.

[Ed Brubaker]

Wait, what recently did you know a bit about gorillas?

[Jason Manzoukas]

She knew a lot about gorillas.

[Ed Brubaker]

Gorillas. So do you know, you know, less

[June Diane Raphael]

about tornadoes and gorillas?

[Jason Manzoukas]

There is a graph on our Facebook page that is kind of monitoring what

[Ed Brubaker]

you know about and comic books at the bottom of the list.

[Paul Scheer]

You were the target audience for that movie, I guess.

[June Diane Raphael]

So here's what I loved. I loved the idea that this superhero. And again, I don't know a lot about superheroes. I love that his power came from a disability.

[Ed Brubaker]

Mm.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

I thought that that was so amazing and kind of beautiful and that it wasn't this sort of, like, otherworldly thing that had happened to him or some.

[Ed Brubaker]

No activity.

[Jason Manzoukas]

There was a little bit because, like, he.

[Ed Brubaker]

That was radioactive waste. The stuff that he gets splashed with in the face and in the. In the Daredevil origin story that isn't in this, he's, like, saving an old man from being hit by a truck. I love.

[Paul Scheer]

In this version, his dad causes the.

[Ed Brubaker]

How crazy is that? Yes, how crazy? Like, in this version, they make it so much. In the. In the. You know, the origin story of Daredevil, he's that little kid. His dad is the same. His dad is. And in this one, too, like, they name his dad the devil rather than battling Jack Murray.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Ed Brubaker]

Battling Jack Murk. There's such weird changes they make to the story, but regardless, there's an old man crossing the street who's gonna be hit by the truck.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh. Blind man about to walk in front of a truck.

[Ed Brubaker]

Who's the butti. And Matt Murdock runs, pushes him out of the way himself, gets in the accident. The toxic waste spills on his eyes, and he is blinded, rescuing somebody. But in this one, his dad drives him out by revealing he's a bad guy.

[Paul Scheer]

His dad's like, I'm not. I don't do that. Yeah, and then he's just, like, roughing a kid up.

[Ed Brubaker]

Runs by toxic waste factory in the middle of Hell's Kid.

[Paul Scheer]

And did you see? He, like, causes. He causes the truck to actually beer and then get sliced with a forklift so the shit splashes on him. Are we allowed to say shit?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yes, you can say whatever you'd like. This is not.

[Ed Brubaker]

Keep it classy, Brubeck.

[June Diane Raphael]

We're allowed to. We just don't like it.

[Ed Brubaker]

I said wet blood fart on this podcast.

[June Diane Raphael]

See, I loved that choice, though, that it was the father. You know, his father betrayed him, and that's why he was running so willy nilly.

[Jason Manzoukas]

But it also seemed weird because his father betrayed.

[Paul Scheer]

He did run very willy nilly. He had a skateboard.

[Jason Manzoukas]

He had a skateboard.

[Ed Brubaker]

Why not use a skating away?

[Paul Scheer]

He could have skateboarded away.

[Ed Brubaker]

Why was he skating up? Why was he skating down that alley? I couldn't figure that out either.

[Paul Scheer]

In the director's cut.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, here we go.

[Paul Scheer]

In the director's cut, he shows up at his dad's work looking for him to show him his straight A's.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, makes more sense.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, you can see his report card. Yeah, it just splashes down there with straight A's and all, like perfect attendance,

[Jason Manzoukas]

but that makes more sense.

[Paul Scheer]

And then he shows up at his dad's work and the guy's like, your dad hasn't worked here for years. And then he like immediately skates to where his dad is roughing a guy up.

[June Diane Raphael]

And I'm like, see, I have to say I did not understand that the radioactivity of the chemical was making.

[Paul Scheer]

I thought that's why he has the enhanced radar sensibility.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, that's why all the things come in so clearly.

[June Diane Raphael]

I just thought in my mind when I was.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You think that all blind people are like that?

[June Diane Raphael]

No, not at all. I just thought he was this. He had sort of committed so hard to being blind.

[Jason Manzoukas]

But he woke up in the hospital room and it was immediate.

[June Diane Raphael]

I know he didn't have time to

[Jason Manzoukas]

make that conscious choice.

[Paul Scheer]

There is a certain amount of.

[June Diane Raphael]

But your senses do get heightened. That is a reality.

[Ed Brubaker]

Yeah, but his get heightened to a superhero's level.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay.

[Ed Brubaker]

You know, and then the other thing that happens.

[Paul Scheer]

Most blind people don't turn into acrobats.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, immediately he was.

[Paul Scheer]

He did the little kid wire fu.

[Ed Brubaker]

Like, well, here's stick. Like, how does he not get trained by stick? He trains himself. Really?

[Paul Scheer]

So there was the early. Before Frank Miller, there was no stick.

[Jason Manzoukas]

The original origin.

[Ed Brubaker]

I guess that is how I know

[Paul Scheer]

he just like learned how to fight because he grew up in boxing rings and stuff or in boxing gyms.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, my issue with this movie is it's kind of what a lot of people say about superhero movies, which is like, ugh, I don't want to see an origin story. I just want to see them get into the action. But they neither do an origin story to its completion, nor do they tell an effective criminal story. It's kind of like. It feels like the middle of something bigger. It's just like the kingpin stuff is so kind of slap dash.

[Paul Scheer]

He's in like five minutes of the movie, the theatrical version, and he has nothing to really.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It just doesn't. I don't get what the villain is. I mean, really, it starts to really get together like an hour and 20 minutes into an hour and 48 minute movie.

[Paul Scheer]

The first time I saw this movie, I didn't see it in the theater because I was working at DC at the time. I was working on Batman or Catwoman or something, but I knew people that had Gone to see it. Like, DC had been invited by Marvel to go see this. And Marvel. The guys at Marvel, like, Fox made this movie. It was before the Marvel Studios, even

[Jason Manzoukas]

though they still have that cool opening.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, they have the cool opening. But I remember, like, one of my editors at DC said this movie is what everyone says is wrong with superhero movies. Like, he basically kills a guy, the first guy he goes after also. Okay, this is a thing that I

[June Diane Raphael]

never noticed about it because he's wrestling with this moral compass.

[Paul Scheer]

I love that. But, okay, the opening court scene.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

What the fuck is going on there? There are two defense attorneys. They're representing, like, the rape victim, and the other people are representing the rapist. Where the fuck are the prosecutors?

[Jason Manzoukas]

That was the weird thing. What is this trial?

[Paul Scheer]

And is this a civil case?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Was that the OJ Jury? He already got off on the criminal part, and she's trying to sue him, and they can't get that either.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And it's like. And then, like, Foggy, when they walk out of the courtroom, he's like. He's like, oh, man, he hired a really good lawyer. That lawyer didn't do anything. He's like, hey, I object to that. And it's like. And then all of a sudden, he was off. Like, he was just like.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, did you love the comic book Dutch angles in the courtroom? That was really the only time they had like. Like dramatic angles, like Batman, like the Batman TV show.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Static room A. No fight scene. Just in court. Like, plaintiffs testifying.

[June Diane Raphael]

That is what's, you know, unclear about the Daredevil. Like, it's. It seems in one sense, he's very suspect of the justice system and how it works. Like, he doesn't believe in it in the court system, and yet he's always calling for the police and, like, that end of the justice system. It's not as though the whole thing is corrupt and he's the only vigilante. It does seem like he thinks the cops can be of service.

[Paul Scheer]

You know, I think the way it was always portrayed is that, like, Hell's Kitchen, everyone's corrupt, even the cops, kind of. So the cops are on the take. But the idea that Daredevil, like, would that scene in the subway when he's chasing Cassada.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

And then he's, like, strangling the guy. And then the train noise, like, he's never. Like, he doesn't really, after an entire lifetime with this power that the subway train will make this the first time he's ever been in the Tunnel, apparently.

[Ed Brubaker]

That's crazy to me in New York City, that noises. Like, in this. Like, it's almost like Daredevil's great weakness is noise. Noise.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's like his kryptonite is noise and understand.

[Ed Brubaker]

Spoiler alert. We end up with a finale set piece on a church organ.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Ed Brubaker]

So that it can make as much noise as possible

[Paul Scheer]

when Bullseye's banging the church.

[Ed Brubaker]

Oh, my go.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, I want to also talk about, again, going back to this Cassada rapist.

[Ed Brubaker]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

He does so much damage in that bar and seemingly kills everyone in that bar. And when there was only one person he was after. And he doesn't even effectively kill the rapist because he has to chase him into the subways. There are a lot of people died in that bar that are seemingly innocent, have not committed a crime.

[Ed Brubaker]

They're like, bad guys. It's a bad guy bar. It's a bad guy bar.

[Paul Scheer]

It's a bar. In the comic, it's the bar where the bad guys hang out. I don't know that he killed them.

[June Diane Raphael]

I think they're just down for.

[Paul Scheer]

I admit my eyes started to glaze over during that scene. Cause I was just like, wow, there's a lot of stuff going on here. And I'm like, how is the. How is the pool table on fire?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah. All of a sudden, the pool.

[Paul Scheer]

And then he's, like, standing on the pool table, like, on fire. And the other guy got away somehow. The only guy.

[Ed Brubaker]

The only guy he came after gets away and he chases into the subway. They have a confrontation, realizing that if

[Paul Scheer]

a subway train comes by. But then he fucking kills him.

[Ed Brubaker]

No, he lets him die. He lets him die. The guy, Cassada falls onto the train.

[Paul Scheer]

There's a scene where they're clearly paying homage to in the old Frank Miller comic where Bullseye's on the train tracks and Matt Murdock is such a. Like, justice and law guy that he can't even let Bullseye die. He has to save him. But he's letting this rapist go. Oh, yeah. Which I agree. I mean, sure. I mean, a professional assassin is worth saving a rapist? Not. Yeah, exactly, but.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, you know, apparently the director was really into recreating a lot of shots from the comics. And there are moments that you kind of see that. But again, this movie is something that you have this origin story. It's kind of like the first 20 minutes, half hour. Then you go into this rapist story that's kind of not, I would argue, not 100% tied to kingpin and then Elektra comes in and then you're dealing with that. And then once Elektra's father gets. We gotta get into the Elektra stuff. Today's podcast is brought to you by our friends over at Squarespace. You know, I love Squarespace because with Squarespace, everything that you need to succeed online is in one spot. From claiming your domain to building a beautiful website, promoting your work and taking payments. It's all there. Whether you're just starting out or ready to grow easily. Create a standout site using designer templates or AI with drag and drop editing. It makes everything so easy. I have so many sites. The dinosaur site, the how did this get made site, the Paulshear.com, it's all there. And they're all completely different because Squarespace allows me to adapt my style for each one of those sites into a format that they make look good. Does that make sense? I make sense to me. Look, whatever you want to do, offer services, book clients, get paid, it's all in one place with Squarespace, right? You can even do scheduling invoices and they have email tools built in people. It's great. I love Squarespace. Go to squarespace.com bonkers for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use the offer code bonkers to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Mint Mobile plans are only $15 a month. I mean, what's the catch? Well, here's the thing. There isn't one. There's no gimmicks, no gotchas, just unlimited talk, text and data, fast, reliable coverage on the nation's largest 5G network, and an award winning care team that makes Mint Mobile a catch. I mean, honestly, what else do you need? You can bring your current phone number and phone with you. Plus you can choose from 3, 6 or 12 month plans and say goodbye to a monthly bill to get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a go to mintmobile.com HDTGM that's mintmobile.com HDTGM cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.comHDTGM that's it. There's no catch. $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to $15 a month new customers on first three month plan only speed slower above 40 gig on unlimited plan. Additional taxes and fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. Summer travel is coming. And wouldn't it be a dream that if you are going to a different land that you could easily speak the language, right? That Would be amazing. But you're like, oh, I don't know. Probably should have learned it back in high school. No, no, no, no. You shouldn't have learned it back in high school. And if you did, you might have even forgotten it by now. But for 10 minutes a day, you will be able to speak better than you ever thought possible. If you are using babbel, because Babbel can help you have real conversations in as little as three weeks. Lessons are quick, practical, and built by more than 200 language experts. And instead of memorizing random vocab, you're learning phrases when you're ordering dinner and. Or asking for directions or even talking with locals. You know, I've been using Babbel, and I absolutely love it. What I love about it is it's a little gamified. I want to come back every day. I don't miss a day. And I love feeling comfortable. And it's working. It is actually working. So if you have summer travel coming up, now is the time to start. So you can actually use what you learn on the trip. Right now, babbel is offering listeners up to 60% off. Go to babbel.combonkers. that's Babbel. B, A B, B, E L dot for up to 60% off. Rules and restrictions may apply. The romance really takes a center stage in this. Like, for every superhero movie, the romance is really front and center.

[Ed Brubaker]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And. And it's. It sort of seems like they were like.

[Ed Brubaker]

It's a lot like the note.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, yeah. So you read about this. Like, I. Because when I watch both. Both cuts, the director's cut, which is a half an hour longer, first of all, has an entire storyline with Coolio in it. Coolio.

[Ed Brubaker]

What?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yes, yes. Coolio plays.

[Paul Scheer]

Coolio plays a guy, a murder suspect junkie who is framed by the kingpin for the murder of this woman. And Matt Murdock and Foggy Nelson defend him. And it's a whole storyline that ties all these plot lines together. Yeah. You see Matt Murdock and Foggy Nelson actually being lawyers and investigating and meeting with their.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Because that seems like. And it also is a bigger payoff from what I've read about the director's commentary to tie in the kingpin. It seems like at the end, it's like, oh, yeah, Kingpin hired him a lot more.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. But what isn't in it much more and is there's less of it is the romance. Like the scene on the rooftop when he's making out with her and he hears Like a fight. And then she's like, stay with me. And then they're making love. That scene's not in the movie. That is never make love. Like, they kiss, and he hears it, and she's like, I got it. He's like, I gotta go. And she's like, stay with me. And he's like, I can't.

[Jason Manzoukas]

She's like, stay with me.

[Ed Brubaker]

I want to have that sex scene I've ever had in my life.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

To be fair, they did get married after that.

[Ed Brubaker]

Oh, I know.

[Paul Scheer]

This is it.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And by the way, I think that

[June Diane Raphael]

may have colored some of my viewing, too, is knowing that this is where they found their love.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I'm a shipper for them, too.

[Ed Brubaker]

Is this where she fell out of love with Scott Foley?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, here's the thing that people.

[Paul Scheer]

That had happened when she became a bigger star than him. Right?

[Ed Brubaker]

Is that right? I don't remember. Maybe. Guys, here.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Here is the. Here's a little gossip for you. When he was shooting this movie, he was still with JLo.

[Ed Brubaker]

Whoa.

[Jason Manzoukas]

People don't know. Yeah. This could be a little Mr. Mrs. Smith action going on here.

[Paul Scheer]

I feel bad talking about that.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That they are. That they could.

[Paul Scheer]

It's like, it's okay to talk about Matt Murdock cheating on every girlfriend that he's ever had, but Ben Affleck can't.

[Jason Manzoukas]

This is.

[Ed Brubaker]

Yes.

[Jason Manzoukas]

He is a sacred ground.

[Paul Scheer]

This.

[Ed Brubaker]

It's also interesting to watch him in a cowl here and knowing that all the drama that's going on with Batman. Well, I want to cowl, but.

[Paul Scheer]

Are you gonna read his quote?

[Jason Manzoukas]

I wanna read this quote.

[Paul Scheer]

Why he wouldn't be the next.

[Jason Manzoukas]

This is the quote. He goes. In November 2006, Ben Affleck stated he would never reprise the role. Having felt by playing a superhero in Daredevil, I have inoculated myself from ever playing another superhero. Wearing a costume was a source of humiliation for me and something I would never want to do again.

[Paul Scheer]

Whoa. But now he has kids. He didn't have kids then. Now he has kids who want to see him beat up Superman.

[June Diane Raphael]

He's not in that costume. I mean, you don't really see him.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And by the way, that's a good costume. I think the Daredevil costume, out of all scenes, is more realistic. Oh, really?

[Ed Brubaker]

I didn't like it.

[Paul Scheer]

But he can turn his head, which is something I've still never been able to accomplish in a Batman. Even after pointing out, like, I want to be able to turn my head, he still never turns his head. Into Batman.

[Ed Brubaker]

And I agree with you, it does look very real world.

[Paul Scheer]

Costumes someone can would have made.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I will tell you what does not look real world is every sidewalk, street corner they're on. It looks like the Seinfeld sets.

[Paul Scheer]

When the Seinfeld go out and say the same thing.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It looks so shitty.

[Paul Scheer]

Studio set, right? But it's downtown la.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Some of it is. I think some of it was on set. So it looks so fakey.

[Paul Scheer]

It looks like how I met your mother.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, like why?

[Paul Scheer]

And I suggest how I met your mother. I always.

[Jason Manzoukas]

No offense to sitcom streets, but they are not. They are not the high budget that million dollar movie.

[Ed Brubaker]

Guys, please don't freak out about how we're coming down on sitcom streets. Yeah, we're not trying to start a warm.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Do Hym fans, do not strike out against this podcast. We cannot have you guys against us guys.

[Ed Brubaker]

We do not want to go to war with the H I y m

[Paul Scheer]

vs h I d M Y G O H I.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Okay. Yes.

[Ed Brubaker]

Himya versus Hiddekum.

[June Diane Raphael]

Why does he sleep in that?

[Paul Scheer]

So he needs a sensory deprivation thing. And this is the coolest thing in the director's cut, actually, as he's getting into it. The first time you see him getting into it, he hears a crime that's too far away for him to get to, and that's the Coolio murder. And he has this vision of the murder happening on the floor. Like it's crawling towards him as he likes sinks into the thing and it's really creepy.

[Ed Brubaker]

Ooh.

[Jason Manzoukas]

So like, he is like. That's more interesting. Like, see, that's what you were missing.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, you. You would like. I mean, you're never gonna love the Daredevil movie other than June, but like, guys who've ever read the Daredevil comic are never gonna love that movie. But the director's cut is closer to what you expect from the movie. It's still got too many stories and too much.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, it seems like a lot to put like Kingpin, Bullseye, and Elektra. Those are all giant characters for a first movie where you're not even really growing with the character.

[Paul Scheer]

And also, did it not seem weird to you that the movie opens and then like within three minutes you're in a flashback that goes the length of the entire movie.

[Ed Brubaker]

Yeah, it's really odd.

[Paul Scheer]

The last 20 minutes are the only part that's not a flashback.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Ed Brubaker]

And the other thing is, in that original, I feel like they were like, you know what? Nobody's gonna watch this opening with the dumb Church.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Ed Brubaker]

And stick with this stupid movie. So I have a bunch of flash forwards where we see stuff that's gonna happen in that opening scene where it's like. Yeah. Where you're coming in and it's like. It's like. Then there'll be, like, little images that are gonna be in the movie later as if to say, like, don't worry. We know this is opening on a shot of a city, but don't worry, guys. There's gonna be fights and bullseyes in this. It was really crazy.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Like, a dumb way to be. Like, we gotta keep them entertained. It's like 30 seconds into the film.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. They're showing you glimpses of fights from the last 10 minutes of the movie.

[June Diane Raphael]

Now, what was going on with all of the medicine he's taking?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, he's hurt.

[Paul Scheer]

He. I think that was. That was something that they. That they added for the movie because they wanted to make it feel. Because he's supposed to just be a real guy like you and I, and. But he's leaping around all night long and, like, getting in fights with people. And by the way, he's going to be in the.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Leaping at certain.

[Ed Brubaker]

Certain times in this movie.

[Jason Manzoukas]

He's, like, flying like him and Elektra. They don't, like. They have superhero jumps. They're not believable.

[Paul Scheer]

There's that scene at the end where he's fighting Bullseye and he leaps, like, 20ft up into the air. In the comics, he's usually like. I mean, it's a comic book. He leaps more than you should, but he's got stuff that he's swinging, propelling him.

[Ed Brubaker]

They have that scene. I feel like they have that scene in Nolan's Batman, too, where he has to recover from the fights that he has because. And those two.

[June Diane Raphael]

He's like, taking, like, Vicodin or something.

[Ed Brubaker]

Yeah, he's taking Percocet. Was one of my little.

[Paul Scheer]

I love the idea that he was just taking them like that. Chew pills in movies.

[June Diane Raphael]

Really, really upsetting.

[Paul Scheer]

Hey, have you ever taken a dry pill?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Never. And just chew it up?

[Paul Scheer]

Have you ever accidentally bit an aspirin? It's the worst feeling ever.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Was that in the director's cut, him chewing an aspirin. Oh,

[Ed Brubaker]

guys, have you ever pulled out your own tooth in the shower?

[Paul Scheer]

I totally forgot that.

[Jason Manzoukas]

What was that?

[Paul Scheer]

No. Okay.

[Ed Brubaker]

Why does he p. Pull his own tooth out?

[Paul Scheer]

I have had a lot of dental work in the last several years. If you're pulling a molar out, you're going to the dentist. The next day, you've got to get another molar put.

[Ed Brubaker]

That made no sense.

[Paul Scheer]

He's gonna develop TMJ problems.

[June Diane Raphael]

Here's the other thing. If he had been dealing with that. When you have pain like that in your teeth, you can't focus on anything else but that pain until that tooth's gone.

[Ed Brubaker]

Unless you're Daredevil Man.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, he's able to block out tooth pain, but not the subway for his entire life.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Again, the subway was a shock to. And I felt like in this movie, the rain was also like. He's like, oh, the rain kind of helps me out here. It seemed like that was the Raiders need the rain.

[Paul Scheer]

He doesn't need the rain. In the comics, radar sense works. The only time his radar sense doesn't work if there's nothing to bounce off of. So if he's, like, above the skyscrapers, like, falling from a plane, he would have no idea where he's going.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right.

[Paul Scheer]

But his radar sense, in the comic books, at least, basically, he has, like, a 3D picture. And he can see the reason it's an advantage is because he can see what's in the next room.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right?

[Ed Brubaker]

He can kind of see.

[Paul Scheer]

Otherwise, it would just be like, oh, he can see behind him, too. Which would be better.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I also want to talk about. Really get into the meat of the romance here. This Elektra.

[Ed Brubaker]

First of all, I want to just wrap up the one thing about Cassada. When he lets Quesada get killed and Joey pants, Ben Urich shows up, and he's like, oh, it's Daredevil. And they're like, how do you know that that's an urban legend? And he's, oh, I don't know. And he flicks his cigarette and Daredevil has apparently left a gasoline double D in the ground.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Which, by the way, I was like,

[Paul Scheer]

what the fuck is in the comic?

[Ed Brubaker]

Right?

[Jason Manzoukas]

The way it should be reflected in his glasses is the mirror image, but in his glasses, it's the forward image, which someone just pointed out is a. Since it's a digital effect, that's a $10,000 mistake. Like, somebody did not figure out the right way to put in his glasses.

[June Diane Raphael]

That just, to me, didn't seem like the Daredevil I know and love. I feel like he's not.

[Paul Scheer]

He's not that cocky.

[June Diane Raphael]

He's not that cock like you were.

[Jason Manzoukas]

When did he have that chance to like. Yeah, to like.

[Paul Scheer]

But by the way, also, if you're gonna be Daredevil and let a guy die, that's the Time to not sign up.

[Ed Brubaker]

Exactly. Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

Sign your work. When you've, like, when you've got therapist hanging from the thing outside city hall with a confession, like, then you're like, by the way, this is done by Daredevil.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You killed someone in cold blood.

[Paul Scheer]

That's when you run away.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Now, my eyes definitely glazed over a few times in this movie. And I'm wondering, did they ever draw the parallel of how whatchamacallit Ben Urich had he found out it was Matt Murdock.

[Ed Brubaker]

Yeah, the Kevin Smith scene.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, the Kevin Smith scene.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Just from that, he's able to figure it.

[Ed Brubaker]

Yeah. Because he sees. He meets Matt Murdock and Matt Murdock is like, hold this for a second. Hold this for a second. He looks and he goes, oh, nice color.

[Paul Scheer]

Nice color.

[Ed Brubaker]

And then he sees it again.

[Paul Scheer]

No.

[Ed Brubaker]

And then he sees it again with Kevin Smith, also a Daredevil writer.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. And then he. Yeah. Who I guess, you know, wrote the. Wrote the stuff that the imagery was taken from.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And Kevin Smith is the reason why Ben Affleck is Daredevil, apparently recommended him. Originally, the part was offered to Vin Diesel. Really? Yes. Oh, sorry. No, I'm sorry. I got confused. Bullseye. But Matt Damon was one of the people. Matt Damon, Yes. I had a few Daredevils. I got a few. But yes. Well, here it was. Let's see, it was Matt Damon, Ed Norton and Guy Pierce were all up for Daredevil. And Cuba Gooding Jr. Wanted the lead but was never approached.

[Ed Brubaker]

I would have loved.

[Paul Scheer]

I think all those people would have been just as good as Ben Affleck. Except for Vin Diesel would not have been a good Derek.

[Jason Manzoukas]

No.

[Paul Scheer]

Having seen him as a lawyer in that other movie.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I will say this, though. I don't think that Ben Affleck is bad in this movie.

[Paul Scheer]

No, I don't think so at all.

[Ed Brubaker]

We're all doing. We all are doing like. I don't think he was that bad at all.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, no, me neither.

[Ed Brubaker]

We're all doing high pitched. We're all doing high pitched voice.

[Jason Manzoukas]

He's an Academy Award winner, Jason.

[Paul Scheer]

That means we're lying.

[Ed Brubaker]

That means we're afraid of him.

[Paul Scheer]

He would not. I would not have picked him for my choice, I don't think. But I actually. He doesn't ham it up or anything. No, he doesn't ham it up. He plays it pretty straight. The director's cut, he's actually really good in, I think, because there's. There's a lot more of him in it. And apparently that was the original studio cut that everybody was happy with. And I think that's the one that Kevin Feige, who now runs Marvel Studios, was working on this movie in a lower capacity as a producer under.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Before they realized that, like, superhero movies are the future.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, exactly. And before Kevin got to the point where he could actually be in charge and go, let's not just like, you know, let's follow the comics a little bit more and build our own world. But. But, like, I read something like Affleck had to wear contact lenses, that he was actually blind in all those scenes, which is kind of amazing.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I actually, for one sketch in Human Giant, I wore those milky because my eyes were supposed to be burnt out. And it is the most frightening thing ever to put things into your eye and then you're blind. It is.

[Ed Brubaker]

Oh, God.

[Paul Scheer]

Shapes even.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You're just seeing one. Like, it's basically, like, white. Like, somebody just spray painted over your eyes. Like, you can see white but nothing else.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, that's scary.

[Jason Manzoukas]

So it is. He did a good job.

[June Diane Raphael]

I think that must have been what I really connected to, because to see a man be so vulnerable like that and to be blind and he's also a superhero to me, and maybe other women feel this was like, what could be better? What could be better? Because he's also. I know he can see certain things,

[Paul Scheer]

and he's like a pro bono noticing

[June Diane Raphael]

his feelings on, like, women's look.

[Paul Scheer]

He's very Atticus, too. They took payment in, like, a wheel of cheese or something.

[Jason Manzoukas]

My favorite joke of the whole movie, which is when Foggy and Matt Murdock are in their office and, like, they're complaining about people paying him in fish and cheese and, like. And Favreau's like, yeah, I'm expecting Lamont from Sanford and Son to come in here. I was like, that's a really funny joke. I don't know. I enjoyed that.

[Paul Scheer]

That's totally improv. That had to be right.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Really made me laugh.

[Paul Scheer]

Exactly. Like Favreau.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And by the way, Favreau, lucky to get two sidekick characters in Marvel films.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, yeah.

[Ed Brubaker]

I was wondering when I realized he was in this, I was wondering, like, oh, is this the beginning of, like, him and Kevin's relationship that then leads to. That might have Iron Man.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

What did he do that got him? Iron man?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Like, Jumanji 2. Yeah. Zas roostra or whatever.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, yeah, that thing.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That's. Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Because before that, his last movie was Elf.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

But then look at the Captain America movie. It's the Russo brothers, she wouldn't have picked. And everything I've seen from that movie looks amazing.

[Ed Brubaker]

It looks badass.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I can't. I'm jazzed about that.

[Ed Brubaker]

I'm so excited.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, let's not get off topic because we'll. I was gonna say is. So the director's cut version, apparently they screened that and every woman in the audience connected to the romance and wanted more of that. And that's why they cut a half an hour of the movie and they added in a. But the director's cut doesn't have like two or three scenes that are in the theatrical. That are all the romance scenes.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, it makes sense because there's some weird ass shit in there. Like, he pretty much meets Elektra and then the next scene he's like, I've always wanted to bring you up here to the roof. It's like, wait, you just met her. You've always wanted to bring her to this roof. In Hell's Kitchen, there's a couple weird connections like that. And then for me, I'm not as well versed in Elektra, so you guys can maybe help with this. It seems to me, like, where are her superpowers coming from?

[Ed Brubaker]

Because she is a ninja.

[Paul Scheer]

She's a trained ninja.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Okay, but is she a trained ninja? Is she a trained ninja before her father is killed? Because it seems like then she has like that little montage scene where she's just.

[Paul Scheer]

In the comic book. She was Matt Murdock's girlfriend in college, pre law. And her dad was a Greek ambassador who got murdered during some sort of terrorist standoff. That was very similar to the Munich thing where it was like these guys seized the building he was in and he stood up at the wrong moment and got shot. And then elektra leaves, and 10 or 15 years later, she comes back and she's an assassin who used to be a ninja.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Okay?

[Paul Scheer]

And that's how she's introduced in the comic as Matt's ex girlfriend, who's now a bad girl.

[Ed Brubaker]

She's like, she's a villain.

[Paul Scheer]

She's a villain.

[Ed Brubaker]

She's a villain.

[Paul Scheer]

For many years, she's a villain. And then she goes, good, because she realizes Daredevil is Matt Murdock, who is the one love of her life. And so she starts to become good. And in the comics, she actually dies trying to save Foggy.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, really?

[Paul Scheer]

That's why Bullseye ends up killing her in the comic. That image of stop from killing.

[Ed Brubaker]

Putting the scythe through her, coming out

[Paul Scheer]

of the director's Cut. That's actually in the movie.

[Ed Brubaker]

It's in the. It's in the regular. It's in the movie, too.

[Paul Scheer]

No, the director's cut. There's a wide shot. Oh, see the. The back of her shirt sticking out?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Because they were trying to get a PG 13.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, trying to get a PG 13.

[Ed Brubaker]

Because that's like a very. And then the violence is much more intense.

[Jason Manzoukas]

But that's a weird thing. And it's like you're taking images from a lot of disparate things and going, oh, we'll recreate that image. But it's out of context in the

[June Diane Raphael]

world of the theatrical cut. So we're just to believe that she has these skills.

[Paul Scheer]

Doesn't she mention when they're walking on the street that her dad sent her

[Ed Brubaker]

to a different sensei every year?

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Okay. Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

She's had kung fu training.

[Ed Brubaker]

She goes, where'd you learn to fight like that?

[Paul Scheer]

Exactly.

[Ed Brubaker]

And she goes, my dad. Something, something. He makes me train with a different sensei every year since I was fighting.

[Paul Scheer]

But now each one just hangs a bag of sand.

[Ed Brubaker]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Didn't you guys love all of her?

[June Diane Raphael]

I mean, that had to be her doing all of her.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Wake me up inside.

[June Diane Raphael]

She was amazing.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Open up your eyes.

[Ed Brubaker]

All the emo bullshit music.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, she was already kick ass.

[Jason Manzoukas]

But here's my issue with that character. And it's a big, big flaw, which is. And again, maybe I missed it. I don't think I did.

[Paul Scheer]

I don't think you did.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Bullseye clearly. Bullseye clearly killed her father.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And then she is blaming Matt. Like she's. Like she's shooting or Daredevil.

[Paul Scheer]

I think she saw it.

[Jason Manzoukas]

How did she not see it there?

[Paul Scheer]

I know, but it's very clear that she.

[Ed Brubaker]

She's on the ground. She sees it go over her head, but she.

[Paul Scheer]

She didn't notice when she was another guy. He throws the throwing stars as he's standing on the motorcycle, which for some reason.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yes. Can still steer. Yes.

[Ed Brubaker]

I could spend an hour talking about just bulls.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yes.

[Ed Brubaker]

And the insanity that was this character.

[Paul Scheer]

The peanut on the plane or the pecan.

[Ed Brubaker]

Just a woman.

[Paul Scheer]

What was that?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yes.

[Ed Brubaker]

That was crazy.

[Paul Scheer]

How do you kill someone with one nut? Was it a nut allergy?

[Ed Brubaker]

She choked. No, she choked on it.

[Paul Scheer]

She choked on something that small?

[Jason Manzoukas]

It hit her so hard in the back of her throat.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's what I imagined.

[Paul Scheer]

She couldn't. She just died of shock.

[Ed Brubaker]

He's a real. He's a real jokester.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, I kind of liked his performance. I thought it was so insane.

[Paul Scheer]

It was like hiring Orson Welles to play with him.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I felt like he was so overdue.

[Ed Brubaker]

I felt like.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It was like. I feel like he's like, I'm a cartoon. Like, you know, it's like. He's like, oh, yeah, this is a cartoon movie. I'm a cartoon.

[Ed Brubaker]

He has a move, which he does throughout the movie, that I feel like he went up to the director beforehand and he was like, hey, you know what? I figured out the thing on my head. I'm gonna treat it like a nipple. So I'm gonna, like, touch it. I'm gonna touch it. Like, ooh. Yeah. He multiple times, like, fingers the bullseye on his head, and he's, like, excited. That and the sound effect they put in for when he puts his jacket on, there's, like, a rattlesnake sound.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I was like, what the fuck is going on?

[Paul Scheer]

He might have a rattlesnake in there that he throws accurately.

[Ed Brubaker]

I would love that.

[Paul Scheer]

That would be amazing.

[June Diane Raphael]

How does he get that Bullseye imprint in the comic books? Or is it ever.

[Paul Scheer]

That was not. That was. That was for the movie, actually. In the comic book, he wore a costume that had a bullseye right there. And then when the movie came out, actually, my friend Brian Bendis was writing the comic at the time, and to try to make Bullseye match the character from the movie more, he had a scene where, like, Daredevil beats the crap out of him and then takes a rock and, like, carves the bullseye. Oh, really? Which I thought was really badass at the time.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I kind of. I don't mind that scar on his head.

[Paul Scheer]

I thought that was really cool because you can't have a lot of people in costumes running around in a movie, especially when you've got, like. Yeah. Daredevil's costume looked, you know, somewhat real. Less ridiculous than you'd expect.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It was just red leather, and it just was like a cowl.

[Ed Brubaker]

But no, an Elektra is in a costume. Like, she never wears the signature kind of red, kind of Electra costume.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. She doesn't have her headgear anything.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And Michael Clark Duncan is dressed like Kingpin, who.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. Basically looks exactly like Kingpin, by the way.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Best performance. Great. Michael, when he gets his knees kicked out in the final fight scene. Oh, my God, that scream. I want that image just frozen for life.

[Ed Brubaker]

That's somebody. Somebody make a. Is it a gif or a gif? A gif of that for Paul, please.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Of just his knees being broken and that scream that. Like, that Monster scream. But like, he's an intimidate. I liked it when he took. When he got went mano a mano with Daredevil.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Ed Brubaker]

Because that's always. That's always a great fight.

[Paul Scheer]

Kills Matt Murdock's dad. That's like that first the Keaton Batman movie, it turns out the Joker, it's like, no, the Joker didn't make Batman.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

You don't have to tie it.

[Ed Brubaker]

You don't have.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Everything has to be a loose end that you tie it against.

[Ed Brubaker]

They made a bunch of Batman references in this.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I feel like Batman with a boner.

[Ed Brubaker]

I mean, like, Daredevil is Marvel's Batman. He's Marvel's kind of human vigilante kind of kind of character. Morally ambiguous street level. Yes. But here they, like, they kill his dad out in the back alleyway just like.

[Paul Scheer]

But that happened in the film.

[Ed Brubaker]

Just like. But I feel like it went down more like the alleyway shooting of the parents, you know? Then there are a bunch of bats that fly out of the church organ. But I was like, what the fuck is going.

[Paul Scheer]

This is weird. To kids, summer isn't just time off.

[Ed Brubaker]

It's time building confidence and curiosity. But when school meals pause, millions of children lose the food they count on.

[Paul Scheer]

Your support helps the Feeding America Network

[Jason Manzoukas]

nourish every child's potential.

[Ed Brubaker]

Give [e-mail] Summerhunger have you ever, I

[Jason Manzoukas]

don't know, put off replacing your glasses for way too long? I do this all the time. They're falling off my face and I don't know why. I'm just not simply getting another pair of glasses. I need them. But guess what? It's a process. I gotta go to a store, I gotta get the prescription, I gotta mail it, I gotta fax it. Look, I just want to live my life. And I also don't want to spend a fortune. And guess what? I realize I don't have to do either of those things because Zenny Optical is an online shop that fixes all of that with affordable frames and lenses. You can switch it up whenever you feel like it. Okay? And you can try on your Zenny's. Virtually just upload your prescription and then you can get them shipped right to your door. Let me talk to you about this virtual try on. I'm able to make choices. I'm like, I don't like that one. I do like that one. You really are able to see what looks good on your face. And here's the best part. You don't just need prescriptions you can just get regular sunglasses, which I did. And why? Because the price is right. Okay, so if your glasses are overdue for a refresh, now is the time. Go to zenni.com podcast and use code podcast15 for 15% off your first order. The styles sell out, so don't sit on it. That's Z-E-N-N-I.com podcast promo code podcast15. Summer always changes how you get dressed. You want pieces that feel lighter and more breathable. Things that are easy but still put together. That's when where Quince comes in. They focus on high quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Think breathable linen and soft organic cotton. And Quint's goes way beyond clothing, people. You're gonna get your mind blown. I mean, they got sofas, cookware, premium bedding, and more. I actually got a pair of amazing sneakers on Quint. Now let me tell you, Quint and Summer go together. Have you checked out their cashmere waffle short sleeve polo sweaters? They are unbelievable and they are priced perfectly. And I've actually been able to put together a much more stylish summer wardrobe than what I normally wear at summer, which is a little bit more rag taggy. Like I look like I'm still in high school, you know. So elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quints.com bonkers for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com bonkers for free shipping and 36065 day returns. Quints.com bonkers how bad must you feel like if you're Ben Affleck and you're like, you got this good script and then all of a sudden this is what it's becoming? Because the director's cut is better, Right?

[Paul Scheer]

You would argue director's cut is a better movie. It's still a bit of a mess. It still, you know, opens with him starting to talk to a priest and then cuts to. In fact, the flashback is an extra 20 minutes longer.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Because it literally. It's only when after Elektra gets killed and Matt drops into that ch church that it comes back to where the movie began.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Right.

[Paul Scheer]

And now I remember the first time I was watching the movie, I literally called my wife and I'm like, look at this. This is an hour and 15 minutes into a 90 minute movie. And the flashback that started at the beginning of the movie just ended. And she was like, really? That's impossible.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, I kept on waiting for, like, the main narrative to kick in too. Like. And that was it. It was like, you finally. Okay, now I know.

[Ed Brubaker]

Now we're gonna start.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Now I know. And it's like, oh, only 20 minutes to go. Okay, well, I guess this is it.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay. What the hell happens in that opening bar scene? What is he doing to that guy when he's sticking seven paper clips. Paper clips in the guy's throat was weird.

[Ed Brubaker]

Yes.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I guess a lot of acupuncture.

[Paul Scheer]

Acupuncture. It was like he's just passing out. Like.

[Ed Brubaker]

No, he kills him.

[Jason Manzoukas]

There's no figure or anything.

[Ed Brubaker]

Bullseye repeatedly does what I would consider to be amateur magic tricks.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Ed Brubaker]

Like, he shows the guy a paper, then he puts his hand in front of it, pulls his hand away, and the paperclip is unfolded.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yes.

[Ed Brubaker]

And everybody's looking at him like, what the fuck is this about? And then he, like, shoots. He, like, flicks the paperclip at the guy and it goes into his throat.

[Jason Manzoukas]

But he has also 20 of them.

[Ed Brubaker]

He has 20 more undone. Unfastened paperclips.

[Paul Scheer]

Don't let him into your office.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Is he like this? You know, there are certain versions of this comic that I have read. And again, Daredevil is not. Does he do that with every. Like, is he.

[Ed Brubaker]

Can he.

[Paul Scheer]

Bullseye is deadly with anything in his hand.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yes, anything.

[Paul Scheer]

What's weird is, though, with a pencil, he. He did do the thing where he rubber band paperclip to fly. That was bugging him.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Okay, so. All right, so he's.

[Ed Brubaker]

Anything multifaceted. Anything is a weapon.

[Paul Scheer]

With a peanut. Yes.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Got it. Okay.

[Ed Brubaker]

But what's weird is he throws a card at one point, which is a gambit move.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

I thought that was so pretty. Gambit.

[Ed Brubaker]

Oh, is it?

[Paul Scheer]

He's used cards. Frank Miller, even.

[Ed Brubaker]

Oh, okay.

[Paul Scheer]

The throwing cards. Yeah. It was like. I guess. Okay, whoever created Bullseye, I think it was Marvel, the guy who created Blade. I think he. When he was doing Daredevil, he created Bullseye. And I think he's thrown cards the entire time, because.

[Ed Brubaker]

Okay, that's fine.

[Paul Scheer]

He must have known of. Ricky J.

[June Diane Raphael]

Got it.

[Ed Brubaker]

Because I was like. I saw that. And I was like, bullseye, That's a gambit move.

[Jason Manzoukas]

But, yeah, Bullseye has become Ricky J. That's how he retired. He uses his cover to travel the world to kill people.

[Paul Scheer]

He's got. He's just Ricky J. With bangs.

[Jason Manzoukas]

But yet. I'm just looking through some of my notes. I wrote down that this movie feels like A shitty video game version of a good movie. It just feels like I'm watching weird cut scenes and they don't all kind of.

[Ed Brubaker]

The sex scene. Oh, do we wanna talk about the playground fight dance scene?

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Jason Manzoukas]

A scene that took four days to shoot.

[Paul Scheer]

Really?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Four 12 hour days were committed to that sequence. Which looks like garbage. Garbage. Like you said. Let's just check through it. Let's walk through it. All the fight scenes. Scenes look a little bit slower than they should be.

[Ed Brubaker]

Oh, very slow.

[Paul Scheer]

That's why they didn't just speed it up in the edit.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That's what I thought too.

[Paul Scheer]

There's a scene where he's like. Where Elektra's shooting at him after. After she thinks he killed her dad for some reason. And she picks up that gun and just starts blam, blam, blam. And he's like running away and very slowly leaping up a wall. And I was like, that's the slowest parkour I've ever seen.

[Ed Brubaker]

If he was moving that slowly, you would 100% shoot him. Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

She couldn't have missed, by the way. She's a ninja.

[Paul Scheer]

She's a ninja, but not a gun. Ninja. Ninja. If she had thrown a knife at him, she probably would have hit him.

[Ed Brubaker]

I buy that.

[Jason Manzoukas]

All right, that's good.

[Ed Brubaker]

They have, they have the dance scene. The. So they have.

[Jason Manzoukas]

They, they.

[Ed Brubaker]

They have a meet cute where like they meet in a bar. In a coffee shop rather. And he follows her out and she's like, why are you following me?

[Paul Scheer]

Wait. But he senses her before she walks in.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Remember?

[Paul Scheer]

And Foggy is like. She's hideous. Yeah. And he's like that good, huh? And then he stalks her.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, he really does.

[Ed Brubaker]

Like a real gross elk stalking. He asks her her name and she won't give it to him.

[Paul Scheer]

So he goes after that. He also made me know that if I were ever single, which I will never be again, thank God, I could just totally do that.

[June Diane Raphael]

And that's only if you're blind.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, here's, here's.

[Paul Scheer]

What if I'm fake blinding like Ben Affleck was.

[Jason Manzoukas]

What if I just have just put in those things.

[Paul Scheer]

Contacts. But then I'm gonna have to commit to that for an entire relationship. That would be terrible.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Somebody, our clip puller who does a great job. She actually cut. They really want to emphasize the blind thing. And she actually put together a compilation of how many times they reference these blind hair.

[Paul Scheer]

They reference it a lot.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah. Have a listen to this.

[Ed Brubaker]

They say your whole life flashes before

[Jason Manzoukas]

your eyes when you Die.

[Ed Brubaker]

And it's true, even for a blind man.

[Jason Manzoukas]

What I saw, I'll never forget because

[Paul Scheer]

it would be the last thing I'd ever see.

[Ed Brubaker]

I had lost my sight, but I got something back in return.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, my God.

[Jason Manzoukas]

So that was all in the first two minutes. They just are always referencing. And then when he meets. When he meets her, we can play that coffee shop scene again. They really hit it home. It's like, this is a blind guy. This is not the Ben Affleck.

[Ed Brubaker]

I'm sorry. Excuse me.

[June Diane Raphael]

Sure.

[Paul Scheer]

I was just looking for some honey.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Could you help me out?

[Paul Scheer]

Right in front of you. Dick.

[Ed Brubaker]

Well, could you be bit a little. A little bit more specific?

[Jason Manzoukas]

What are you blind? That's how they fall in love.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way, have you ever said, what are you blind? To somebody? Yeah. Never.

[June Diane Raphael]

That is like, she's kind of rude. Like, there's another scene when at the ball, at the big ball, she shows up. Or he walks up to her and she does look amazing. But she says to him, I really wish you could see me tonight. Well, he can't. That's mean.

[Paul Scheer]

That's silly.

[June Diane Raphael]

I know. You look great and stuff.

[Paul Scheer]

Like, that'd be like he's already seen her in the rain. And does she know that? Does she understand? He does.

[Ed Brubaker]

He explains. He explains the whole concept of his sonar dark.

[Paul Scheer]

All she needs to do is turn on the sprinklers.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah. By the way, if I was Daredevil, I would just move to Seattle because then you get to see all the beautiful women all the time.

[June Diane Raphael]

How does he see people in the rain?

[Paul Scheer]

It doesn't make any sense. In the comic, he just sees shapes.

[Ed Brubaker]

Yeah, right.

[Paul Scheer]

He sees the person in shape.

[June Diane Raphael]

Let me throw this.

[Paul Scheer]

See, it's even more beautiful. I love that. June. Loved it. I know.

[Ed Brubaker]

It's amazing.

[Paul Scheer]

I was not expecting that one.

[June Diane Raphael]

I also recognize, like, the story problem and all of that, but I enjoyed it.

[Ed Brubaker]

But it's so true that the heart of it was a love story. And if Elektra hadn't been involved, would you have liked that movie?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, that's what I think.

[Paul Scheer]

You would like the director's cut. Because the director's cut is way more. It's just about being a superhero and the troubles of doing it, kind of.

[Jason Manzoukas]

So they're talking about a reboot. And these are some interesting names been attached to it. Jason Statham has expressed interest in playing Daredevil.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Vin Diesel wants to play King Pin.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And. And so someone had. Had put. Pointed out that maybe we should get the Guys that directed the Crank, that was Command. And you get Nicolas Cage to be another villain.

[Ed Brubaker]

That's a movie I would fucking love.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Nicholas Cage. Kevin Feige has confirmed that the rights are now back to Marvel, so they can do this. This is a. I think, a movie

[June Diane Raphael]

that could be really character, though. Do people.

[Ed Brubaker]

This is like, a beloved character any.

[Paul Scheer]

And he couldn't figure out how to. How to get it going at Fox. I think a friend of mine was gonna. Was attached to direct it, like, a couple years ago. And it was just a situation of, you know, too many. Too many notes, too many different ideas.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's such a simple movie. It could be done like the Batman movies. And it would be just as effective and such as really cool and be really easy.

[Paul Scheer]

You do born again, and then you end born again. But you do, like, a different ending where you throw him in prison and then.

[Ed Brubaker]

And you do that. The reveal story.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. And then the next one is, like, different. Daredevil in prison, which was, like, my first.

[Ed Brubaker]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That's how you got him out of prayer.

[Paul Scheer]

Like, Daredevil's in prison with all the bad guys. That's never been done before.

[Jason Manzoukas]

That would be amazing movie, too.

[Paul Scheer]

That would be a really great street level, you know, because Kingpin's in there and Bullseye's in there. I would, like, throw the Punisher in. Well, I mean, Marvel owns the Punisher.

[Jason Manzoukas]

People love Arkham Asylum and all that kind of stuff. It's like, you know, it's like, that would be a cool movie.

[June Diane Raphael]

Is there what happened to Daredevil after his father died? Like, where did he go?

[Jason Manzoukas]

I know he was training, but they trained together. It seemed like.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, they trained. Training. Mont. The way where he's sitting and reading and his dad's just boxing on the roof and. But somehow Matt also learns, like.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

That whole wire fu. Like, he's sliding down. I'm sorry. Like, just because you have radar sense, why are you a perfect, like, ballerina? Like, no, I could not walk like

[Jason Manzoukas]

a bar where everything was.

[Ed Brubaker]

He just does it too. He's like, I bet I could slide three stories down a bar.

[Paul Scheer]

No longer afraid I'm a child. Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And the directors cut the. Did they try to explain that or.

[Paul Scheer]

No.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Okay.

[Paul Scheer]

In the director's cut, that scene stands out even more because everything else, I mean, it's not realistic, but it's grittier. And that scene. And the scene where he beats up Tony Soprano's kid with the stick thing. Oh, my God. How could he know those poses?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah. He really is Posing.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, he's literally like an 8 year old doing.

[Jason Manzoukas]

He just got it.

[Paul Scheer]

Kung fu movie poses.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, obviously we had an opinion about this movie, but there are other people who had a slightly better opinion now.

[Ed Brubaker]

June was one of them.

[Jason Manzoukas]

June is one of them.

[Ed Brubaker]

June is this. Are we gonna read a second opinion from June?

[Jason Manzoukas]

This is time for second opinions with a brand new theme song.

[Ed Brubaker]

Second opinions from top to bottom. Crazy movies are fun.

[June Diane Raphael]

They're not your first, but they're gonna be a second.

[Jason Manzoukas]

From the depths of Amazon they come. Second opinions for everyone. Second opinion.

[Ed Brubaker]

All right, so did we get more theme songs?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, a lot of great ones.

[Ed Brubaker]

Oh, good.

[Paul Scheer]

Love that theme song.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, we got new ones. Thank you guys for sending in that theme song. Okay, here's some great ones. I actually pulled a few. This is from Ronald W. Knight. He writes, I love this movie and so did my ex wife. She never. She never liked comics. So that's a great recommendation.

[Ed Brubaker]

I wish I had her back. I wish she hadn't left. Left me. Sometimes I watch this movie and cry because I miss my ex wife.

[Paul Scheer]

I don't know who I'm gonna go see. Guardians of the Galaxy.

[Jason Manzoukas]

This is from Dixie Elder, Michael Clark. Duncan is strong. Whenever life is walking all over me, I just watch any scene with Bullseye and laugh my ass off and get back in the groove. Five stars.

[Ed Brubaker]

Wow.

[Paul Scheer]

Wow.

[Jason Manzoukas]

All right, this is these. There's so many great ones here. This is from Marion Wilson. This film's gotta be the best action movie I've ever seen. Barring Fast and the Furious, Tokyo Drift.

[Paul Scheer]

A lot of people come down for Tokyo Drift.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Ed Brubaker]

Really?

[Paul Scheer]

I like fast five.

[Ed Brubaker]

Yeah, fast five and six.

[Paul Scheer]

Five and six.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I especially Kurt Russell.

[Paul Scheer]

Come on, it's James Wan.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah, it's going to be amazing. I especially like Evanescence's Bring Me to Life video. The story is original. And I haven't seen any other films about blind super superheroes. Have you? Five stars.

[Paul Scheer]

Wait, is that the song that's played during the montage? The training montage? Oh, God, I hate that song.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's so terrible. And then here I gotta keep on reading these because they're so good. Jake Edelstein writes, it reminds me that justice is blind in the sense.

[Ed Brubaker]

Oh, my God.

[Jason Manzoukas]

In the sense that there's no discrimination against the rich and the poor, the mighty and the lowly. Unfortunately, that's only in the comic book universe. Rob a 711 and you'll get 15 years in jail, swindle billions out of investors, plea bargain and a slap on the Wrist. Wall street needs a Daredevil. Five stars.

[Ed Brubaker]

Amazing.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, he's a street level character, so he could just exist, just move to New York. Jake Edelstein.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And then finally from Maxi Cat, he writes, forget Ben Affleck. That guy's getting married soon. Well, maybe not too soon. Anyway, see this movie. To check, check out the spanking new Hollywood golden boy, Irish heartthrob, Colin Farrell. Oh, my God, this man is as hot as chili wings in Palm Springs. Grindin. Plus, he has the acting abilities of a serious, talented actor. That's the best. He has the acting abilities of a seriously talented actor.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, my God.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Five stars.

[Paul Scheer]

Holy shit. Is that from IMDb from when the

[Jason Manzoukas]

movie was out from 2003. January 30th, 2003. Why does.

[Ed Brubaker]

the end of the movie, why does Bullseye get stigmata in the church?

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, yeah.

[Ed Brubaker]

Shot through the hands and strikes a Christ pose and has. I was like, what is this imagery?

[Jason Manzoukas]

But they kind of pulled away from it too. Like, he kind of does it and

[Ed Brubaker]

then basically make him a Christ figure. And then Matt Murdock literally throws him out a window.

[Paul Scheer]

But remember, they're doing the fight after he kills Elektra. He starts fighting bulls. Daredevil. Bullseye start fighting. And then there's like a police chopper and there's cops and everywhere. So apparently that sniper was just shooting. It was like a police sniper just shooting both of them, but shooting just

[Ed Brubaker]

through it because he couldn't see through the stained glass window.

[Paul Scheer]

Exactly. I don't understand.

[Ed Brubaker]

That was crazy.

[Paul Scheer]

I'm going to take a shot. Whatever. I don't know if there's anyone in this chair.

[Ed Brubaker]

I think I got a shot of something.

[Paul Scheer]

And. And Daredevil, his radar sense sees it coming and that's how he random. Those cops are even there. Oh, yeah. No, I had to go. I had to rewind it like, several times to get to the point where there were cops there even. Cause I was like, who is this sniper? Is this a kingpin sniper?

[Ed Brubaker]

And why are they. Yeah, it doesn't matter.

[Paul Scheer]

Bullseye has backup for the first time in history.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And then also they kind of in the theatrical version, they barely touch the priest relationship is like, hurts and it's gone. Cause I thought in the beginning, like, oh, does he sleep in the church in this? Like. Cause it seems like he's like.

[Ed Brubaker]

The other thing that I loved was in the church when bulls were breaks the stained glass window above him and catches pieces of wood.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, yes.

[Ed Brubaker]

Like they're plates.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Like Chili Willy.

[Ed Brubaker]

Like in a Pile.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Like chilli Willy. Willy catching pancakes.

[Ed Brubaker]

He literally catches stacks of glass and then uses them to, like, throw and spin. And I was like, this is so stupid.

[Paul Scheer]

And this is in the era where they were. They had already made all three Lord of the Rings movies, and people knew how to do green screen, where you're reacting to things that aren't there. And they're still having. Having him catch falling plates.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, there was something really interesting. They said that because Superman did such a good thing, they raised the budget from 50 million. That was the shooting budget. And they pushed it to 80 for $30 million of special effects to enhance the visuals, which, you know, look, that stained glass window scene really showed that out.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. Half the. Like, the early stuff, when he's a kid, when his dad is. I can't remember who plays his dad.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I forget his name. I'll find out. Right now. It's.

[Paul Scheer]

He's got a name that sounds exactly like.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's a. David Keith.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. David Keith. And Keith David. So David Keith is doing, like a Popeye face.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Like, you can't fight with people and. But, like, all those scenes look like they're filmed on green screen to me. Yeah. Like, all the hard line around all the characters. Like, it almost felt like someone was putting their hand on you and pushing you away from this, from the movie.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Don't be connected to this.

[Paul Scheer]

Don't be connected to this. Don't be engaged. I'm going to tell you what this movie is about. And then at some point, that just stops. And he's like an adult and a lawyer.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah. That's why it's like, it's so confused. It was like they didn't commit to just doing a Daredevil movie without an origin story. Because in a way, I almost feel like I could go without an origin story. You don't need to really know. I think it felt like that's what they were doing. Would you recommend this movie? That's the question.

[Ed Brubaker]

You know, I did not watch the director's cut. Maybe I would do that. I don't know. I thought the movie. I mean, maybe it's also like, if you're a Daredevil fan. Fan, which I very much consider myself one. Like, I was profoundly disappointed when I saw this at the time. And when I watched it again for this, I was like, yeah, this is a bummer. It's a bummer because it's a missed opportunity more than it is, like, a terrible movie. Like, the fight scenes are kind of are boring and Kind of slap dash.

[Paul Scheer]

If they were faster.

[Ed Brubaker]

If they were. If they. If they were more successful, I would maybe be into it. But, yeah, it just doesn't work. So I would say say no, Ed.

[Paul Scheer]

I. You know, I feel like its biggest failing is that it's not engaging as. As much as when we're talking about it. It sounds more interesting than it actually plays, somehow. And even the director's cut, I found myself glancing away at my computer to look up, like. Oh, does that, like, just.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It's.

[Paul Scheer]

I had a hard time. Yeah. And, like, I want to say, if you're a Daredevil fan, if you want to see a Daredevil movie, you should look at the director's cut just to see.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

But I'm hoping that there'll be another Daredevil movie. I think now they can do it back and they, you know, hopefully do something with it. But, you know, it's still. He does have that costume. And you see in the new movies, like, they. They're trying to make him look as as little costumed as possible.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

I wonder how they'll pull that off.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I'm very curious, June.

[June Diane Raphael]

I guess I would say 100%, yes.

[Paul Scheer]

I love that.

[Jason Manzoukas]

And I will say that I just feel like nothing is really given that much attention to. And that's the thing. That's a bummer. It's like, his relationship with Favreau's character, the reporter kingpin. It's like. It's all. Pieces are there.

[Paul Scheer]

Does Ellen Pompeo have a line of dialogue? No, it's. Okay.

[June Diane Raphael]

So Pin has, like, one where I think she's requesting to be his plus one.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, okay. She has three scenes in the director's cut where she clearly is really into Matt and not into Foggy at all.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Oh, okay. So that's.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. And like. Like, she's offering to get Matt coffee, and Foggy's like, I'll take a cup, and she's ignoring him, and so she has, like, interaction there.

[Jason Manzoukas]

It feels like an unfinished puzzle on a table. It's like, oh, that looks kind of like if we put that together the right way, it would be cool. But right now, it's just a bunch of pieces.

[Ed Brubaker]

Well, that's.

[Paul Scheer]

I feel like there are better bad movies to recommend.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, here's the thing. I think I'm also coming at it as someone who's never heard of this character before. So I'm like, oh, it's really cool. I love this guy.

[Ed Brubaker]

Well, he's awesome.

[June Diane Raphael]

I've never heard of it.

[Ed Brubaker]

What's hard about it, I think, is they're trying to include so many kinds of. Of pieces of Daredevil from throughout the years that they wind up too much in.

[Paul Scheer]

It was a blender.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Yeah.

[Ed Brubaker]

They wind up with nothing, and they know story by trying to tell all the story.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I think the issue is partially, is that because Daredevil became Daredevil as a child.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Manzoukas]

They got screwed because they didn't do, like, they can't do, like, the Spider man, like, young kid version. They got to do the older version, but they got to pay homage to,

[Paul Scheer]

like, it's weird because he was like, he had those powers for a good eight years, years before he. Before his dad died or something. He was like, 15 or 16 when his dad died in the comics.

[Jason Manzoukas]

All right, so, guys, what do we want to plug Ed? What do you got coming up that you'd like to talk about? Obviously, Captain America is coming.

[Paul Scheer]

The Captain America 2 movie? Yeah. That's sort of loosely based on a comic I wrote.

[Ed Brubaker]

Your new book is amazing Velvet.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, thank you.

[Ed Brubaker]

Amazing. Oh, I have not read that.

[Jason Manzoukas]

I gotta read that.

[Paul Scheer]

I would have brought copies, but mine got mailed to my house in Seattle.

[Ed Brubaker]

How dare you?

[Paul Scheer]

But, yeah, my new comic out Velvet, which is kind of like a woman spy comic about sort of the what if Moneypenny was framed for the murder of James Bond? Is sort of kind of pitch for it.

[Ed Brubaker]

And it's Steve Epting.

[Paul Scheer]

Steve Epting, the guy who drew Captain America for me, is my artist. And, yeah, that's out of image.

[Ed Brubaker]

Awesome.

[Paul Scheer]

And, yeah, just that. And I can't talk about the stupid Hollywood stuff I'm working on.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Why?

[Paul Scheer]

Very excited. Well, I have to talk about it when we're not recording. God damn it.

[Ed Brubaker]

God damn it.

[Paul Scheer]

You'll be very excited.

[June Diane Raphael]

June, when is this coming out?

[Jason Manzoukas]

This can come out this week.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh. So Ask backwards is out November 8th

[Paul Scheer]

in theaters, and it's on streaming already.

[June Diane Raphael]

And it's already streaming on itunes and

[Paul Scheer]

Amazon, I think maybe.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. All vod, pretty much places you can find it.

[Ed Brubaker]

And it's fucking hilarious. I saw it this week.

[June Diane Raphael]

Thank you so much.

[Ed Brubaker]

Crazy, funny.

[Jason Manzoukas]

So good. Watch it, download it, do it all.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's it.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Jason.

[Ed Brubaker]

Oh, the league, bro. Bro, the league.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Check out Jason. I in the league, bro.

[Ed Brubaker]

Oh, bro. League, bro.

[Paul Scheer]

I loved your. I loved your episode that you and Seth wrote.

[Ed Brubaker]

Oh, thank you.

[Jason Manzoukas]

So funny.

[Paul Scheer]

That was really funny.

[Ed Brubaker]

Very divisive episode. Lots of love for it. Lots of hate for it.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. My wife. My wife leaves the room when the league comes on. So I was, like, trying to tell her about I don't care. Like that shows mean.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Well, thank you guys for listening. Thank you, Ed, and thanks for having me. Hey, what's going on over there? It's me, Trevor Noah. You know me. You don't know me. Oh, you do. I was worried there for a second. Well, if you know anything about me, you'll know. I love having interesting conversations, conversations where we scratch beneath the surface, like what's really going on in the news? Or what is that celebrity really thinking about that scandal that they had? Or what's the worst way to be a parent? I mean, you want to find that out so you can be the best parent, right? Well, regardless of what it is, this podcast is all about figuring that out, talking to interesting people who have interesting

[Paul Scheer]

ideas that give us an interesting perspective

[Jason Manzoukas]

on the world that we're living in.

[Paul Scheer]

So make sure you choose.

[Jason Manzoukas]

Check out what now with Trevor Noah. Available now on the Sirius XM app. Dish has been connecting communities like yours for the last 45 years, providing the TV you love at a price you can trust. Watch live sports, news and the latest movies, plus your favorite streaming apps, all in one place. Switch to DISH today and lock in the lowest price in satellite TV, starting at 89.99amonth with our two year price guarantee. Call 888-@dish or visit dish.com today.