Eye of the Beholder (w/ Joe Mande)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "How Did This Get Made?" – Episode: Eye of the Beholder (w/ Joe Mandy)

Introduction

In this episode of "How Did This Get Made?", hosts Paul Scheer, June Diane Raphael, and Jason Mantzoukas delve into the convoluted world of the film Eye of the Beholder. Joined by special guest Joe Mandy, the trio embarks on an exhaustive and often bewildered analysis of what they consider one of the most perplexing movies ever made. Released on November 1, 2024, this episode aims to unravel the intricacies and shortcomings of the film, providing listeners with a comprehensive breakdown.

Overview of "Eye of the Beholder"

Eye of the Beholder stars Ewan McGregor as a British MI6 agent obsessed with Ashley Judd's character, who is depicted as a serial killer. The movie attempts to blend elements of neo-noir and psychological thriller but falls short in delivering a coherent and engaging narrative.

Detailed Scene Breakdown

The discussion begins with the hosts expressing their initial confusion upon watching the film:

• Paul Scheer [02:08]: "I didn't know this movie existed until Avril found it for us on this podcast."

• Jason Mantzoukas [03:28]: "It feels like a prank on us. It feels like a series of scenes from other movies cobbled together into, like, an art piece."

The hosts dissect various scenes, highlighting inconsistencies and illogical plot developments:

• Scene of the Tarp Incident:

  • Jason Mantzoukas [06:00]: "A rational person would think the movie is just called 'Of the Beholder.' Just a zoom in on an eye. Very weird."
  • Paul Scheer [08:14]: "This is a lesson I learned in Lethal Weapon 2. When you walk into an office and there's tarp on the floor and you've just done a bad job, do not go into that office."

• Surveillance Technology:

  • Jason Mantzoukas [10:01]: "The movie keeps giving me teases of a world that is not unlike the John Wick world."
  • Paul Scheer [10:44]: "Why does he need to set up such an elaborate camera system whenever he's surveilling anyone?"

Character Analysis

The hosts delve into the motivations and character development (or lack thereof) of the protagonists:

• Ewan McGregor's Character:

  • Jason Mantzoukas [15:32]: "This guy should be played by Tim Blake Nelson or Paul Giamatti. He's terrible at following her."
  • Paul Scheer [21:47]: "She is a woman trying to survive... trying to handle men."

• Ashley Judd's Character:

  • June Diane Raphael [22:03]: "She's just kind of picky. And then she found the Love of..."
  • Jason Mantzoukas [26:11]: "She's become a trad wife. She has a thriving business."

Themes and Style

The episode critically examines the film's thematic elements and stylistic choices:

• Use of Astrology:

  • Paul Scheer [52:32]: "Because she's a Pisces. Which she talks about constantly."
  • Joe Mandy [54:09]: "The horoscope is saying things like, go as far as you can."

• Technological Fear:

  • Joe Mandy [60:25]: "There's a narrative under here somewhere about, yes, tech, the fear of technology."
  • Jason Mantzoukas [61:25]: "It feels like it's trying to be like the enemy of the state."

The hosts argue that the film attempts to incorporate complex themes without providing sufficient narrative support, resulting in a disjointed viewing experience.

Reception and Reviews

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the polarized reception of the film, particularly focusing on Amazon user reviews:

• Paul Scheer [64:53]: "There's no plot. There's nothing to uncover."

• Reading Positive Reviews:

  • Paul Scheer [64:58]: "One review titled 'Couldn't Stop Watching' praises the film as 'quirky, atmospheric, and surreal' but the hosts highlight the disparity between user reviews and their own critical assessment.

• Mocking Overly Positive Reviews:

  • Paul Scheer [65:05]: "What’s not to like? One of my top five."
  • Jason Mantzoukas [66:06]: "She has been in so many better movies. ... the ones we've already mentioned are better than this."

The hosts express skepticism over the high ratings the film receives from certain viewers, attributing them to possible misunderstandings of the film's intent or narrative structure.

Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, the hosts consolidate their bewilderment and frustration with Eye of the Beholder:

• Jason Mantzoukas [77:31]: "I wouldn’t recommend this film. There are so many more movies in this space starring Ashley Judd that are better."

• Paul Scheer [78:18]: "If you don’t watch it, I’m surprised remembering things like astrology in this movie are way more fun to hear about than to spend the hour and 40 minutes watching it."

The consensus among the hosts is clear: Eye of the Beholder fails to deliver a satisfying or coherent film experience, burdened by its convoluted plot, inconsistent character motivations, and overreliance on stylistic gimmicks without substantive narrative support.

Conclusion

This episode of "How Did This Get Made?" serves as a thorough critique of Eye of the Beholder, highlighting the film's numerous flaws and perplexing elements. Through lively discussion and candid opinions, the hosts provide listeners with a detailed examination of why this movie struggles to resonate, ensuring that fans of bad movies have one less film to spend their time on.

Notable Quotes:

• Jason Mantzoukas [03:28]: "It feels like a prank on us."
• Paul Scheer [10:44]: "Why does he need to set up such an elaborate camera system whenever he's surveilling anyone?"
• Jason Mantzoukas [15:32]: "This guy should be played by Tim Blake Nelson or Paul Giamatti. He's terrible at following her."
• Paul Scheer [21:47]: "She is a woman trying to survive... trying to handle men."
• Paul Scheer [64:53]: "There's no plot. There's nothing to uncover."
• Jason Mantzoukas [66:06]: "She has been in so many better movies."
• Paul Scheer [78:18]: "If you don’t watch it, I’m surprised remembering things like astrology in this movie are way more fun to hear about than to spend the hour and 40 minutes watching it."

Final Note

For those intrigued by the hosts' perspectives or seeking further analysis, future episodes promise continued explorations into similarly baffling films, ensuring that listeners can avoid potential cinematic disappointments with expert guidance.

Transcript

[Paul Scheer]

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[Ben Mankiewicz]

Talking Pictures the podcast from TCM and Max is back with a new season. Here, host Ben Mankiewicz in intimate conversations with the people who live to make us laugh. Carol Burnett, Bill Murray, Paul Scheer, Henry Winkler, and more all join Ben to talk about the movies that made them. Talking Pictures isn't just about film. It's about the powerful role movies play in our lives. It's about where you were, who you were with, and what you were feeling. Listen to Talking Pictures on Max or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Paul Scheer]

Every memorable gift starts with a story. And what better gift to give this holiday season than giving something that represents pure power? Nature's power. I'm talking about Jefferson's Ocean Bourbon and Jefferson's Ocean Rye. They are aged at sea. They have dealt with elements that you could only dream of. You'll taste the journey in every sip. It's darkened by the pound waves, it's kissed by ocean air, and it's caramelized by equatorial heat. Give the gift of adventure. Give Jefferson's Ocean Bourbon and Jefferson's Ocean Rye. Please sip responsibly. Copyright 2023 Jefferson's Bourbon Co. Crestwood, Kentucky. It's like a French film without the artistry or depth. We saw Eye of the Beholder, so you know what that means.

[June Diane Raphael]

Now it's time for how to disconnect.

[Paul Scheer]

We're gonna have a good time celebrating.

[June Diane Raphael]

Failure, not just be a hater cuz you know you wonder how to disre. Let's wallow in the mediocrity of subpar art. Perhaps we'll find the answer to the question how did this get made?

[Paul Scheer]

Hello everybody and welcome to how did this Get Made? I'm your host, Paul Shear, and today we are talking about Eye of the Beholder, a movie that I didn't know existed until Avril found it for us on this podcast. But a movie that looks so similar to so many other Ashley Judd movies. Honestly, if I was to tell you what this movie was about, I think I would have a hard time. Suffice it to say we have Ewan McGregor. He is the eye and he is obsessed with Ashley Judd, who, according to a lot of wikis I read, is called a serial killer. But I wouldn't have made that assumption when watching the movie. But anyway, let's break this all down with my two co hosts, Jason Manzoukas and June Diane Rayfield. Welcome, Jason and June.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow.

[Joe Mandy]

Wow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I, I, I don't know. I just, I don't know. I, I mean, I know you say Avril found this movie, but it genuinely feels like a prank on us. It feels like a series of scenes from other movies cobbled together into, like, an art piece.

[Joe Mandy]

Well, I will tell you, I, I know this movie. This is not a surprise to me. I want to bring on our guest. I'm so excited to talk about it. I have seen this movie before. This was possibly my third time watching. What?

[Paul Scheer]

Whoa.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm gonna say in 15 years of doing this podcast, this has never happened.

[Paul Scheer]

Before where you actually remember a movie. June, you don't even remember the movies we do on this show.

[Joe Mandy]

Well, I've said this before, but I, you know, in the time of Blockbuster, my mom used to send me and my dad or me and my sisters out to Blockbuster for the weekend and say, like, as we were walking to the house, she'd say, get me a thriller. And so I was always on the hunt for a thriller. I knew all the 90s thrillers. I, I've honestly created my whole personality based on the 90s thrillers.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, guess what, June? This movie came out in 2000.

[Joe Mandy]

Okay, fine.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, it's, it's the same.

[Joe Mandy]

It's a product of the 90s. It was written in the 90s.

[Paul Scheer]

It was, it feels like it should be older. When I saw it, it was like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It'S from the 80s. Like, if you watch it, it feels. Let's just bring our guest in. We got to get into it.

[Joe Mandy]

Let's get.

[Paul Scheer]

Here's the thing. Sometimes I feel guilty about the films that we subject our guests to. To us. I don't care. But this is a, this is a real. How did this get made All Star? You've heard him on episodes like Jingle all the Way and Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow. He is an amazingly talented a writer and standup comedian. He is now an Emmy award winning writer for the TV show Hacks. His new standup special, Chill, comes out on December 13th on Hulu. Please welcome back Joe Mandy.

[June Diane Raphael]

Joe, here we go, Joe.

[Paul Scheer]

Joe, welcome. I mean, again, I feel bad because I was so excited you were coming on here. And this is a movie where I had to stop and rewind multiple times because, like, am I missing what.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wait.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Joe Mandy]

Well, by the way, though, I don't feel badly for Joe. I feel we.

[June Diane Raphael]

No, my life is going great.

[Joe Mandy]

Yeah, I don't feel badly for you. Especially not after that intro. But, like, this is a great. This is a great movie to discuss.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, I have a question for you guys. Like, I mean, this is your. You're professionals at this. Has there ever been a movie you've watched where just based on the title card alone, you're like, oh, this is going to be a rough one?

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I was excited because this is the first and only movie I've ever seen that had a cryptogram opening where they used Ewan McGregor's eye as part of. Yeah, eye. And it was of the Beholder.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Absolutely insane.

[June Diane Raphael]

A rational person would think the movie is just called of the beholder.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yep.

[June Diane Raphael]

Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

Just a zoom in on an eye. Very weird.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

A rational person would. Upon receiving all of the information in the beginning of the movie, you might think you understand the movie that's going on in front of you. And it is about A man, Ewan McGregor, who I believe is searching for his boss's missing son. Predicated entirely on a pair of pants. Correct. Wait a second.

[Joe Mandy]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Pause, pause. What? Wait, what are you. What are you saying?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So Ewan McGregor's character is some sort of British audio? Audio, yes.

[Paul Scheer]

Is he a slow horse? Is he a slow horse?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's basically a slow horse. I have. I wrote so many times that River Cartwright would do a better job. He deserves to go to Slough House, but doesn't his boss. His boss's son is missing. There's something about him missing. The only evidence that's given is a pair of pants. But instead, what we watch instead. That's what I'm saying. That's what the movie tells me it's about. But instead, Ewan McGregor follows Ashley Judd for, I don't know, the better part of seven years. I don't know the time frame of the movie, but he is always wearing the red jacket. I was like, what is this?

[Joe Mandy]

Well, you know what, though, I'm so glad you brought up. And we're actually starting with Hugo, who is Ewan McGregor's boss, because. And the timeline of that. So Hugo. Yes, Hugo sets him off on his first big mission. He happens to see Ashley Judd there. I still couldn't really understand why. How she was involved.

[Paul Scheer]

The socialite son is gotten into some trouble and it's sort of like the boss.

[Joe Mandy]

But that's Hugo's son, right?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Is her first kill Hugo's son?

[Joe Mandy]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, it is. Okay.

[Paul Scheer]

In my mind.

[Joe Mandy]

No, no, it is. Well, maybe not first kill of her life.

[June Diane Raphael]

I don't know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, no, no. I'm sorry. I mean, what we see as the first kill. Not in her history. I mean in what we see, the production.

[June Diane Raphael]

The tarp.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The tarp. If someone lays down a tarp in front of you, don't get on it.

[Paul Scheer]

This is a lesson I learned in Lethal Weapon 2. When you walk into an office and there's tarp on the floor and you've just done a bad job, do not go into that office.

[June Diane Raphael]

No, no. Indoor tarps. You can have some fun. Outdoor tarps are absolutely slip and sled, etc.

[Joe Mandy]

What. What could he be thinking? Like, why would she need a tarp out there?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Piss play. It's got to be piss play. The only. The only answer is piss play.

[June Diane Raphael]

I actually take back my. My stance. I don't want to kink shame. I don't want to kink shame.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, you might be like, you know what? Thank you. That you just saved my rug. Thank you.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, okay, here's we.

[Joe Mandy]

But Paul, let me just say this about Hugo and his son, because that murder, straight up with a knife, like. Like murder takes place in the opening, like three minutes of the movie.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Joe Mandy]

Hugo's son is missing. There's still K. L Says we're still. He's still searching for him. Where are you. Where's he. For I think, maybe two years. Like, I don't. He.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But here's the thing. It doesn't matter because Hugo is also killed during that time in a car accident. Hugo is also murdered, so.

[Joe Mandy]

Well, he's not murdered.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, I think he is killed.

[Joe Mandy]

No, he's killed in a car accident.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, but it's. It's. It was purposeful.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, because.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, because you and McGregor spies, right?

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. He's an MI6 agent. There's other dealing.

[Joe Mandy]

Well, it's so hard to know because there are so many car accidents in this movie.

[June Diane Raphael]

He's MI6, but k. D Lang works, I think, for a tea party, Interpol or something.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What is that about?

[Paul Scheer]

She is dealing with some very advanced FaceTime technology. I mean, every time Ewan McGregor wants to communicate with K.D. lang, he is taking out a full desk setup. It is comically large. Cameras and screens.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He has to carry it around in a gigantic suitcase everywhere he goes.

[Paul Scheer]

And he's doing it in train stations. Like it's not. He's not being subtle about setting up a futuristic.

[June Diane Raphael]

This is like the dial up function on a 90s airplane at one point to zoom. To zoom with Katie Lang. She's so mad at.

[Joe Mandy]

Well, here's. Here's my question though. What is his title out in the field? Surveillance.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's. That's what you think he's some sort of. He feels like Gene Hackman in the conversation.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's got a sniper rifle, but it's covered in microphone.

[June Diane Raphael]

I know. That was actually the first thing we see other than his eyeball, which we now know he's the eye is. It's like a bait and switch for no reason. The first thing is he's. He's aiming a gun at someone through a window. And then instead of pulling the trigger, like. Like we just realized it's a. He's listening. It's like. Well, you can just get like a normal setup for a microphone.

[Paul Scheer]

Right. You don't need. You don't need to have. Like. It felt like he's too into his job. Like he wants to be an assassin, but he's just an audio.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Audio. He's an audio assassin. Like he does.

[Paul Scheer]

Yet he also is an assassin because later on he does pinpoint accuracy, shoot out the tire of a car.

[June Diane Raphael]

Right. I guess at a certain point it's like just imagine you're listening, but instead.

[Joe Mandy]

Here it's like, oh, yeah. And I don't want any, you know, the sound engineers out there to take offense to what we're saying. Like, it is a super important job to deal with sound, you know?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. Especially if they're into piss play. We do not want to.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You want to hear every drop? You got to hear every drop. Hit the tarp.

[Paul Scheer]

I guess my question is, why does he need to set up such an elaborate camera system whenever he's surveilling anyone? Because when he is trying to find the son, the amount of cameras he has on that house looks like this job seems pretty simple. Like, hey, find out if my son's up to anything. But he has, like wired the house, he's wired the hotel, he is going and he has.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And his equipment is enormous. Every time they cut to his little. What they're trying to show us is these miniature cameras that he has set up so he can see all in her apartment or in her hotel room, whatever, are basically like VHS cameras on a Like tripod attached to the wall. They're gigantic. She would see everything. The movie, the movie. Why is this a movie? What is this story? You think for most of the movie that it's a cat and mouse. He's on her trail, she's the bad guy, but he's falling in love with her over just the viewing of watching her, blah, blah, blah. But then you come to find out in the middle of the movie, or later than the middle of the movie, she has no idea he's there. She's not aware of his presence whatsoever and doesn't give it a second thought. When the woman at the hotel says, or the apartment says, oh, you know that your boyfriend who's been following you every single day, who waits outside for you every single day, she's like, doesn't think twice about it. Maybe she thinks it's that cop who she later kills. Maybe it is. But regardless, she does not know he exists. It's like the opposite of heat. It's a movie in which the two main characters never meet until the very end of the movie, only to have a cryptic conversation over diner coffee.

[Paul Scheer]

They don't even kiss. I mean, I guess the thing that's weird is it felt to me like it's trying to be Vertigo on some level, right? Like, where, like, he's caught up in with her, but the only thing that he's seen is that she's a killer. Like the first. Like, so is he. Like, I'm so turned on by her that I, like, am. Like, he has no interest.

[Joe Mandy]

Maybe. I guess you guys didn't hear the line where, you know, he said, says I'm a daddy looking for my little girl. And your little girl looking for a daddy.

[Paul Scheer]

That was at the end. And that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, that's at the end, but there are breadcrumbs to get us there, which is the. Merry Christmas, Daddy. Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, Daddy. Which is repeated throughout, which I was like, God, please let this be the title of the movie.

[June Diane Raphael]

Just one of the most. One of the most annoying hallucinations I've ever seen in a movie. Just like, oh, yeah, like, she's always in the way.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, oh, the ghost daughter.

[June Diane Raphael]

The ghost daughter, yeah. Kind of like dancing around. He's trying to do survey, like, bad, bad kind of hallucination.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, in the third act, the third act of the movie completely abandons both ghost daughter. And he's a surveillance guy, electronic surveillance guy. He just becomes a practical creep who follows her to Alaska and eats in her diner every day and tries to Chat her up.

[Joe Mandy]

Well, you're right, though, because the problem with ghost daughter. The problem with ghost daughter, like, yes, Joe, you said it's like, she's so annoying that anytime he brings up like, oh, I lost my daughter and this, like, grief and. And pain around it, I'm like, you. You want to get back with that girl? Yeah, she's so annoying.

[Paul Scheer]

But by the way, he didn't lose his daughter. His wife and daughter left him because he was too obsessed with sound or his job. All right? So they leave years ago, and at one point, he has that picture and he goes, I think one of these is my daughter. Because it seems like. Like, I don't. I think that this version of his daughter is not even based in reality because she left so long ago. Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Seven years, though. It's only seven years. Is he saying he doesn't now remember what she looked like?

[Paul Scheer]

That's because I think when he pulls out that picture, he's saying, she's one of the girls in this photo.

[June Diane Raphael]

So weird. Because also, he looks like he's 24.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Years old and is drop dead gorgeous.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, this guy should be played by Tim Blake Nelson or Paul Giamatti. He stands out so much. He's terrible at following her. He's gorgeous and wearing a bright red coat everywhere. He's the. It's a terrible. It's terrible.

[Paul Scheer]

He's not a spy. He really is just a listener. And all he wants to do is just get some more snow globes for the daughter that he hasn't seen.

[June Diane Raphael]

Snow globes. Oh, my God.

[Paul Scheer]

He says it so, like, matter of factly, like, oh, yeah, I always get a snow globe from the snow globe shop at the train station. Like, there is a snow globe shop in every city. In every city, in every train station.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And the cuts and the snow globe.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, those are crazy.

[Paul Scheer]

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[June Diane Raphael]

The directing, I had to look it up because it felt very much informed by like, I think stylistically they're going for like 12 monkeys or something, right? Especially with like the, the goofy kind of steampunk technology he's using and that like Katie Lang is in kind of like a weird, very stylized office with her, like, operator lad with her drinking tea.

[Paul Scheer]

It feels like it, like it feels like PG Brian De Palma too. Like it's trying to create this. Like it's sexy, but it's not really sexy. But then they also do this thing where like when he goes to the gas station in the middle of the movie, they make this like weird hard cut on just a. A weird looking guy like staring in the corner like the. Is this like what are we doing? I don't understand.

[Joe Mandy]

There were a lot of those guys though. There were a lot of guys staring off like they were zombies and that they had. They were just like absolutely vacant.

[Paul Scheer]

But yet we're in a world where we're also juxtaposing that with very fancy like beautiful train stations, beautiful trains, drinking cognac. You know, it's not like a post apocalypse.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It feels. The movie feels like it's based on a book and that the book included a tremendous amount of interiority, like internal monologue rather for the character or maybe multiple characters. Like. And the movie is like, well, we can't have that. So you just are watching people make and do things for reasons that you are not in on.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, let me just tell you, you're right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Person to person to person. I don't know why Ashley Judd is making the moves she's making. And this movie should be a procedural movie in which the police are on the trail of a serial killer and are trying to figure out who done it or a proceed in a procedural fashion making the case against her and solving the crime. But we don't do that.

[June Diane Raphael]

Right? It's more of a who. It's a who cares? It's.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes, this movie exists in parallel. This movie exists in parallel where a British secret police agent helps her get away with all of these crimes.

[Paul Scheer]

But the question is, I really don't feel like she is a serial killer because some of the people she kills. Rightly so, like you have Jason Priestley, which we'll get into in a little bit, shooting her up with heroin, right? Like we have that. We have like another guy like being really like a dick. And all these guys feel like very rapey. And then she, it seems like self defense. The cop is like really like getting up in her face. The only and the only person that is nice to her, she's not going to kill. And then Ewan McGregor kills him. So I'm like, is she a serial killer or is she just a woman that you've caught in the.

[Joe Mandy]

She's a woman trying to survive.

[June Diane Raphael]

She's just kind of picky. And then she found the Love of.

[Paul Scheer]

Her life, a blind man, original.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, why are we introduced to her? Like, I, we. I get it. That you and McGregor becomes calls for her in a fem fatal kind of way, but why?

[Paul Scheer]

Because he's trying to track down what the son is up to. Hugo's son. So the first person killed is Hugo's son and.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But we don't know why she kills. That's what. I'm sorry. What I'm saying is we don't know her motivation. Like, he's just going him premeditated murder style.

[Paul Scheer]

Like we're. I think what we're to believe is you and McGregor go there and say, oh, I watched him that night. He's having sex with this woman. He did some coke, X, Y and Z. And then that would be next mission go on to.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But I found, I found good news. I found him. Your son's not missing. He's. Blah, blah, blah. Okay, got it. But she kills him and we never know why.

[Paul Scheer]

She doesn't explain anything. He doesn't ever connect with her. And then he's just chasing her for no reason, like, because he doesn't report in when he tells like the people at home, like, or the K D. Lang like, oh, I haven't found. I haven't found him like, so. Because he's like aiding and abetting her in a way, I guess.

[Joe Mandy]

Oh yeah, he's got blood on his hands for sure.

[June Diane Raphael]

Also, after she kills the first guy, the tarp guy, there's like a kind of almost Mr. Bean like section where he's like slipping around trying to get his camera.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

And he drops the camera. So then I was wondering, oh, is he like. I was confused there too, because I was like, oh, is he following her? Because he like lost the footage of the first murder, so he needs video proof of yet another murder. But then that was like, that's clearly not what's going on.

[Paul Scheer]

He's always running after those cameras in a very willy nilly way. Even in the hotel room when she kills the cop, he's like, oh shit.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And in a way that you're like, oh, he's a, he's a law enforcement officer. He must be trying to gather evidence to make the case.

[Joe Mandy]

It also seems like he's always running through the crime scene.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. Oh yeah, big time. Leaving in the year 2000. Leaving a tremendous amount of fingerprint and DNA evidence. Wherever he goes, he's.

[Joe Mandy]

And maybe that's why he doesn't report her, because he's just like, I'm. My, my Stuff's all over there.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. But also, who knows if it's the year 2000 because it's. It seems to exist in a different time.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Didn't he say too, that she, like, burned off her fingerprints so that, to me, tells me she is some sort of assassin. Him. These are not crimes of passion. I don't think these are premeditated murders for some reason.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, not the one on the train. The one on the train.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sorry. No, that's different.

[Paul Scheer]

The guy who just approaches her and is a little forward, but I would. I would argue he was at least. He's like, hey, can I flirt with you?

[June Diane Raphael]

He's a. He's a horny train guy.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, Horny train guy. And Ashley Judd is kind of entertaining him. And then the way that she kills him or it's revealed seems so improbable. She makes an aquarium out of a.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Bathroom to drown this train shower stall. She creates a volume of water inside that allows him to swim freely, like a manatee. In the aquarium, not only do you.

[June Diane Raphael]

Have to fill the room up with water, but then seal the door.

[Joe Mandy]

Yeah. How does she get out?

[Paul Scheer]

I've been in trailers. I've been in. I've been in all the, like, water is not easy to come by in a moving vehicle because you take a limited supply. Right. Like, it's not. You're not hooked up to. So the amount of water that she has and the fact that there's very little leakage there, I mean, somebody would have noticed there's an issue like, oh, wow, we've just run out of all of our water on this train. Every. Every ounce of it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It does feel like. I would also have believed if there was a scene at a certain point where Ewan McGregor is debriefed. And they're like, actually, every single one of these people she intended to kill, she was on that train to kill that man. You know, she was in that location to befriend the blind man. Every mo. Every movement of hers. Like, I feel like there's a mo. There's a thing where they are both spies. They are both expert level spies. And that's why he's on. He's been tasked to follow her or whatever. But. No, I don't think so. But I was trying to make sense of it because these number of random things are crazy.

[Joe Mandy]

But I don't think the three of you understand what it is to be a beautiful woman in the world.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay.

[Joe Mandy]

Trying to make your way.

[June Diane Raphael]

Tell us.

[Joe Mandy]

Just trying to stay. Stay alive and live honestly. Just to live.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sure. You know, with your tarp and your giant knife.

[Joe Mandy]

Yeah, yeah. And some of us, like, don't have a choice.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay.

[Joe Mandy]

We are just trying to survive and handle men. And that's why the only man she ever feel safe with is blind. Because when you're as beautiful as Ashley Judd. And I can honestly relate.

[Paul Scheer]

Wow. Okay.

[Joe Mandy]

Yeah, I can. I related to this character quite a bit like you. You have no choice but to murder. Yes, but to murder because. And. And we learned the most about her when we. When. When Ewan McGregor goes to the home for juvenile girls, which is like a fem Nikita style. I love that place. I wish the whole movie was there.

[Paul Scheer]

Me too.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I wanted to understand this again. The movie kept giving me teases of a world that is not unlike the John Wick world, where the K D Lang operators are assigning the hits and there's a school to train the young ballerina assassins. Sorry, go ahead.

[Joe Mandy]

Yes, but that main head marm in charge, Genevieve. Yes. She says something along the lines of like, you gotta kill the motherfuckers. Something like, so out of character for who she seems to be. And there's something about that. There's something about her arming these young women to be. And by the way, why did Ewan McGregor ask her if she was ever sex.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, what a creep.

[Joe Mandy]

That was so crazy. But there's something. Again, it's not explained to us, but there was something about her arming young women, making sure their hair is not shown, making sure they're not, like, really, you know, that nobody really sees who they are. Which is why I think she, you know, feels safe with the blind man. But. But there's something there because the only other explanation. If she hasn't been trained to behave this way. Way. And to, you know, be a gorgeous woman in the world and to, like, go on the offense when your, you know, body and looks are constantly being perceived and consumed by, I will say, lecherous men across the board. I don't think there's a man in this movie with the exception of the blind man. And I include Ewan McGregor in the category of all the other men. He is not absolutely disgusting.

[June Diane Raphael]

And he's a professional.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, yeah, he's getting paid for a professional. Yeah, he's a. He is. He has made stalking his job, but even creepier. And what I really think is uncomfortable about the relationship is he is attracted to her and yet also viewing her as his daughter, like, in the sense of, I must save this young girl, which makes it Even more complicated. Which. Your point? It's like it should be an older man or something.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. For a little while I was like, is. Does he think this is his daughter grown up?

[June Diane Raphael]

I thought that too. But then I was like, she seems older than it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She's too old for it. But I was desperately. And this is just to the point of the movie is so cryptic and bizarre that I was constantly trying to overlay a plot onto it that I could then get on board for because I was like, I don't understand what are. If I don't understand why anybody's making the choices they're making, then I don't understand what this movie is showing me or what this movie is about.

[June Diane Raphael]

Could that be deliberate? I mean, could that be confusing to the point where the movie itself is in the eye of the beholder? Yeah, you just have to make it up yourself.

[Paul Scheer]

It's our eyes. That's.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What's the Joe Esterhouse, Billy Baldwin creepy sliver cameras movie.

[Paul Scheer]

Is that sliver?

[Joe Mandy]

Well, because here's what's really weird. She does say later on in the diner scene that she's, you know, she goes over, like, all of the loss she's experienced in her life. Her dad, you know, this man, the baby, which, by the way, I really do, and I know this is a sensitive subject that we're all about to vote on, but I really do want to go over how pregnant she was and how that baby was alive for 15 days, which I believe is what it says on the gravestone that Ashley Judd and the nurse from the hospital go to.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, right, I forgot about that scene.

[Joe Mandy]

So it says the baby was alive for 15 days. Now Ashley Judd is not showing any signs of being pregnant.

[Paul Scheer]

No, I mean, again, we don't.

[Joe Mandy]

Unless she was in a coma for many, many, many, many weeks, there's no chance that that baby survived outside the womb.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But the movie is not making. Not trying to help us understand the passage of time at all.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, to me, I think. I think to me, the grave, it's just. It's in the eye of the beholders.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, here. Here to me is when you're talking about timelines in this movie, this is where I'm most confused. At the end of the movie when he follows her to Alaska and she's re. When she's changed her whole identity, which again, we know.

[June Diane Raphael]

All we know about Alaska is that she steals a car in seemingly Death Valley. And a. Another, like, full freak show man just says she headed north.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

He's like, I guess north is Alaska.

[Paul Scheer]

The end of the. I think they say at one point, the end of the world. So he goes to Alaska. And this is the line that got me. You see Ewan McGregor at that diner now, she's changed her full identity and he's doing his order to Ashley Judd. And he's interrupted by the head waitress who's like, oh, he. This guy, he always gets scrambled eggs and herbs and. And then. And then Ashley Joe's like, are you a regular here? And he's like, yeah, for a couple of weeks. How long have you worked here? So you're telling me that. And she's like, a couple of months. So he's been there for a couple of weeks. She's been there for a couple of months. But yet they've never crossed paths.

[June Diane Raphael]

He just. He just keeps picking the wrong shift. Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

I was like, but yet he eats there every day.

[Joe Mandy]

And then.

[Paul Scheer]

And that restaurant is so bizarre where the waitress is like, sorry, Smitty, you, McGregor, I gotta fill your table with randos because I'm overrun today. And then those randos happen to be, I guess, am I six, eight?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Because no, they are, I believe, federal American agents who are after her for the murders.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay. Interpret.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They are. They have American accent.

[Paul Scheer]

So who are. Who. Look at Ashley Judd, who looks nothing different. She just looks like Ashley Judd without makeup and goes, that's probably not her.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, they're like, why prosecute a case? Like it's the 1960s and. But we know because of you and McGregor that we have technology. They must have a million pictures of her. They must. Yes.

[Joe Mandy]

Well, they don't have one strand of her pubic hair, though.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They don't.

[Joe Mandy]

How Ewan McGregor found her.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yep. And it's a shorty.

[Joe Mandy]

Okay.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's really short.

[Joe Mandy]

Here's my question. Here's my question. When he went into that tub and pulled out that pubic hair, I was like. I said no out loud. No. Full chested, no. But my question about that. The. The how we find her in Alaska is the entire. The entire movie. She's sort of in these disguises in her wigs. Various different wigs, which I loved. I loved her outfits. I love the way she looks great. I loved all of that. She's. She is so beautiful. I love watching her.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, she's making Ethan Hunt look like a fucking Austin Powers.

[Joe Mandy]

Yeah. But I didn't know at the end when she's so. With his glasses are on, her hair looks super stringy. Like, is this. Are we being told by the movie? And I Know Joe's going to say it's just simply in the eye of the beholder. But are we being told that, like, this is her now without any of the artifact? Like she is.

[June Diane Raphael]

So this is how she always was.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, interesting.

[Joe Mandy]

Or is she in hiding?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think she just feels safe in hiding here. That's why she's not wearing a wig or. But she is wearing her fur coat in Alaska. She is. Like, there is still. But so much so that when the police first come and see her, they're like, hm, do we know it's her? We don't know. So then they come next time, some weeks later with Genevieve Bugeau, her school house mother, who comes from Boston to help them identify the now adult Joanne Dojo master.

[Paul Scheer]

What the fuck is this?

[Joe Mandy]

Which she doesn't. Yeah, she doesn't give her up.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But she does. She does excrete a single tear, which I've. If I'm a good police officer, I'm like, why are you crying?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. Yeah, right.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. Clearly she's hiding something. But I don't know why they brought that. I mean, again, I guess they're trying to pin some murders on her, which is, I guess, the right thing to do. But then. But I mean, at this point, just let her serve grub up there in Alaska. She's not hurting anymore.

[June Diane Raphael]

She's at the end of the world.

[Paul Scheer]

She went north, there's nothing there. But when she tells her story about why she is what she is, she says a line, I wrote it down. She's talking about her and her dad. She goes, we roam the street like a couple of homeless people.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yep, they're not homeless, but they seem to be very homeless.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, no, I think they are. They are because she says that they're gonna. She knows that they're gonna spend Christmas night in the alley behind a shoe store.

[Paul Scheer]

Right. So then. Right. Cause.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But then she comes back and he's gone. So he leaves her, abandons her on Christmas Eve. Merry Christmas, Daddy.

[Paul Scheer]

And Merry Christmas, Daddy. And so she leaves. And that's when she decides to kill all men. But the question about that is, you would think, okay, she's gonna kill bad dads, Santa Claus, Father Christmas, baby New Year, any of these things. So she's against men. Even though it seems like people are helping her survive on the street. Like when she goes to the back door of that place and they give her a full ham. Cause she's like. She also says in that flashback, I wanted to get him something special. So she just concocted the Deal with the back door of the deli.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

When she is telling her him her story, she's telling in Alaska that when they finally have their meat cute at the very end of the movie, they finally meet and have a conversation where they don't barely do any exposition, which we've been begging for, but none. She also is basically like. Starts to cry and be like, I used to have a guardian angel. I lost my guardian angel. And she has been so smart throughout this movie that for her to not be able to ascertain that he is out of place, a British man in Alaska claiming to be a real estate salesman, that that's not setting off warning bells for her is truly shocking. It makes no sense at all. In fact, it makes me feel like she's dumber than she we have thought because she has seemed to be one step ahead of everybody this whole time. She's gotten away with so many murders all over the United States.

[Paul Scheer]

And then she kills him because that's what she's going to do. But he already knows. But he's also like goading her. Like he's setting up a room. Like, he brings her back to his trailer, which is very beautifully decked out. It feels like a trailer that you might bring to like Burning Man. There's a lot of, you know, like, it looks very Envelopes. Yeah, there's a lot of.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh my God.

[June Diane Raphael]

Which then makes you wonder that. Well, it's also like he's been following her seemingly with a U Haul van full of snow globes. Like you can't.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, he's got. Yeah, and he's. And he's got. Set up in Alaska with an Airstream trailer. He hired a guy to come in and build snow globe shells.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

And then when. When she finally kills him, but he knows he's going to get killed by her. So he's able to. He's able to put blanks the gun. Then they get into a car race and then he kills her.

[Joe Mandy]

Then he kills her by another car accident.

[Paul Scheer]

Another car accident.

[Joe Mandy]

Another car accident.

[Paul Scheer]

But then he seems upset that he's killed her and he's pulling her out of the car and she looks at him and she says, I wish you love.

[June Diane Raphael]

I wish you love.

[Paul Scheer]

Now, I've watched the deleted scenes and I can't remember if this is in the actual movie, but in the deleted scene it does say, I remember you. Yes, you took my picture.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You took my picture in the mall.

[Paul Scheer]

So it's like, huh.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She has a flashback to remembering all of the moments where they shared the same space in the train. When he passes her the cognac, like she has a Kaiser Soze esque. It all snaps into place for her. But it. To what end? She. He never. She never finds out he's MI5. Sheena. It's never explained what he's been doing. It's never explained what she's been doing. We never find out what has been going on for either of these people. This movie is bizarre.

[Paul Scheer]

The final scene, it's the deleted scene that I watched. Cuts from that I wish you love. Back to the middle of the desert. Death Valley again. And he is in a small graveyard where he is burying her body.

[Joe Mandy]

Oh, God.

[Paul Scheer]

And he looks over and there's a young girl in front of another gravestone. And he goes up to her and he goes, I'm sorry, girl, you know, where are you from? And she said, oh, I'm Lucy, My mom died. And he's like, come with me. And he puts out her. His hand and then she puts her hand in his hand and then they walk off.

[Joe Mandy]

Wow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So that the same actor who played his daughter in the Ghost. Okay, okay.

[Paul Scheer]

Just the same name. So he. He finally gets his daughter in the end, but seemingly just kidnaps a girl and who's mourning her mother.

[June Diane Raphael]

A graveyard girl. Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Just collecting. Just collecting grief orphans. What are we talking about here? This is absolute insanity. He's a villain. He kills the blind man. He's like a. He's a jealous, bizarre psychopath. They're both. They're. Two of them are both like craven murderers. I just don't understand. In service of what? You know, he's not. Doesn't. He doesn't seem to be operating anymore, obviously. From an intelligence gathering.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, MI6 is like. He can't be cashing checks anymore. MI6 must be like, you haven't found this guy by this time. Like, Right. Like he's fired.

[June Diane Raphael]

He's testing, though. He's testing K. D Lang's patience.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

For. For two acts. Because he's. She's like, you gotta come back. And then we skip ahead, seemingly years.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

And he's still following the case, but it's unclear if. Yeah. If he's still getting checks or what.

[Ben Mankiewicz]

Talking Pictures, the podcast from tcm. And Max is back with a new season here. Host Ben Mankiewicz and intimate conversations with the people who live to make us laugh. Carol Burnett, Bill Murray, Paul Scheer, Henry Winkler and more all join Ben to talk about the movies that made them. Talking pictures isn't just about filming it's about the powerful role movies play in our lives. It's about where you were, who you were with, and what you were feeling. Listen to talking pictures on Max or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Paul Scheer]

You already love DoorDash and now there's even more to love with the new DoorDash Dash Pass annual Plan Benefit. All right, here it is. Drumroll please. Max with ads is now included at no extra cost. That means you can have dinner delivered with DoorDash and settle in for a night on the couch watching the HBO original series House of the Dragon. Plus plus while you're watching Gotham's own Oz Cobb and the HBO's original series the Penguin, you can enjoy some New York City pizza or soft pretzel with DoorDash. And if you're rewatching Friends, don't be surprised if those coffee shop scenes make you crave having a latte delivered fast. Of course, you still get all your favorite Dash Pass Annual Plan benefits too, like unlimited zero dollar delivery fees on eligible orders and exclusive member only offers and menu items. Sign up for DashPass annual plan and get Max included at no extra cost. It's your door to more Terms and conditions apply. Max is now included with your Dash Pass Annual Plan. Stream Max with ads up to $120 value included at no extra cost. Terms apply. See doordash.com max for details. For a gift that's always on time and lasts a lifetime, you can't do better than Masterclass. I have been on the Masterclass bandwagon for a long time. That's right, I am a member since the very beginning. Why? Because Masterclass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200 plus of the world's best instructors. You can learn from any Masterclass instructor anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart TV or even in audio mode. I've used this for a long time. Right now my son and I are watching the Steph Curry Masterclass where we are learning. Well, he is learning. I'm watching how to be a Better Shooter. There are so many great deep dives in here. David Sedaris Before I wrote my book, I listened to his Masterclass and watched how he edited and worked through all of his pieces. I love it. I have given it to people and they have thanked me. Masterclass always has great offers during the holidays and sometimes up to as much as 50% off. So head over to MasterClass.com HDTGM for the current offer. That's up to 50% off at MasterClass.com/HDTGM MasterClass.com HDTGM here's my question, and this.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Is, I think, for everybody, but for June especially, because I understand the relaxing nature of a hot bath at the end of a brutally difficult day. And Ashley Judd takes a number of baths in this. One of which she takes, appears to be in a bathtub that's in the back of a Death Valley automotive repair station.

[Paul Scheer]

Got it. If you see a tub, you gotta use it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Is that a tub that you would use? It seemed like.

[Joe Mandy]

I mean, Paul knows this, but I do. I've been in questionable tubs, and I like to clean them first, obviously. Of course I'll clean the tub. But I don't like to stay in a hotel room if it doesn't have a tub.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Got it. Okay.

[Joe Mandy]

And I'm actually hoping and trusting and believing in my heart of hearts that not many people are using that tub, which always makes me feel a little bit better. Okay.

[June Diane Raphael]

Hotel. But what about, like, a Pep Boys?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Joe Mandy]

What about.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What about.

[Joe Mandy]

I might draw the line there.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What about a tub in an old Sunoco in Death Valley?

[Joe Mandy]

By the way, I know someone. I won't name her name, but I know someone who exclusively takes baths.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So wherever they are, it's gonna be a bath.

[Joe Mandy]

Well, I just mean she doesn't take showers.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I see. I see.

[Paul Scheer]

I see.

[Joe Mandy]

Which is, like, I will say, is very disgusting.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, yeah, that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No. Well, you're telling me this person doesn't shower after the bath?

[Joe Mandy]

No, that's what I'm telling you.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, that's disgusting.

[Joe Mandy]

She exclusively takes baths.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You're just marinating in your filth and then not washing it off. No, thank you.

[Joe Mandy]

I've asked her about it. And. Do I know this person? How do you. What you do? And I said, how do you wash your hair after you get, like, shampoo and stuff in it? Like, how do you re. How do you rinse? And she does use the nozzle, but then she said sometimes if I'm running out of time, though, I'll just lean back.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, wow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I will say I don't like it. I'm gonna. I'm on record. I'm not. I don't like it.

[Joe Mandy]

That's the thing. I don't think. What I don't think is baths should be used to clean yourself.

[Paul Scheer]

That's a.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Relax.

[Paul Scheer]

Relaxing. Well, but what about, like, getting turned on? If you're, like, on the other side of a wall and you're listening to a person in a bath, that's the it's already been drawn. He's just listening to her body in his own.

[Joe Mandy]

Flash around.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, he's in his own bath listening.

[Joe Mandy]

Was he in the bath? No, he was in a drawer.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He was in the bath.

[June Diane Raphael]

He was in the tub.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's in. It's empty, but he's in the tub.

[June Diane Raphael]

He's kind of humping the side of the tub facing her wall. Yeah.

[Joe Mandy]

It is really funny because I've said this to Paul before who never takes baths. And I'm always like, get in the back. Get in the bath. He never wants to get in the bathroom. And I'm like, bathing, especially in movies, is an exclusively feminine experience in a tub. Like, you won't see a man take a bath.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The only way men feel comfortable getting into a tub on film is if the tub is outside and full of ice.

[June Diane Raphael]

Full of ice, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So that they can impress upon you how brutal this is and how much they are withstanding the cold.

[June Diane Raphael]

In fact, can you, can you pull up the clip of Joe Rogan with his like 4 inch nipples just breathing like an ape?

[Joe Mandy]

Paul, do you want to speak about that? Do you want to speak about your man who takes ice plunges?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

I've been doing it for a year and a half and I love it. And it's changed my life. But now I am not going to, you know, I'm not going to recommend it to everybody, but it is changed my life.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Now that's. That's how you are turning yourself into a Sigma male. You know, you are finally, you are the.

[June Diane Raphael]

And Paul, how are you rinsing your hair?

[Paul Scheer]

Here's what I will say that I realized very early on with the icing bath, I take a full shower and clean myself and then I go on to the ice. The ice bath is the final shot. Like this. I'm like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Because you're not meant to like heat your body up after the ice bath in like.

[Paul Scheer]

No, no. Yeah, you're supposed to. Yeah. But also it's like, I wouldn't. I didn't want to go in there. Dirt. I was like, I don't understand. Like, I'm going into. I didn't want to go in there. Like sweaty and gross. I'm like, I'm going. I'm going in clean. And then it stays clean and it's a much better experience all around. I wanted to ask you a question, Gene, because we've talked about this in the past and I don't want to put you on the spot, but Ashley Judd in 2000 is wearing a lot of slips. I know we've talked about it here before. I mean, is a lot of slips. I mean, she's almost exclusively in slips in this movie.

[Joe Mandy]

Because we have to remember for some time in the 80s and 90s, until the 2000s, like, the idea of being able to see through a woman's skirt was so upsetting to our culture. And we were. I was in slips as a child. We were all in slips. We had to wear slips. It was another layer that had to go under your dress. Had to go under your skirt. Then something happened in, like, the thrillers where these slips that, to me were so matronly and so, like, uncomfortable. Slips became sexy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sure.

[Joe Mandy]

You know, so then it was like, oh, no, we're take. Like, slips are. To see a woman in, like, a slip and a bra is like. It's a very sexy look.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yeah. And then it became like fashion in that, like, there were slip dresses and.

[Joe Mandy]

Things, and now they're very much so back.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yeah. Well, now we're in a period where we're. It's gone beyond. We're wearing slips out now. It's like we're wearing nothing. People are like. There are people on the Runway that are wearing, like, what looks like just like a nude bodysuit.

[Joe Mandy]

Yeah. You've been very upset about that and you've spoken about it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm upset that it's taken this long.

[Joe Mandy]

It is very shocking, though, that the really nude, like, skin color pieces.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, now the other part of this, too, that I'm like, I'm just putting together as we're talking about it, we meet her on some. In some lake house. Then she gets on some train and she's going to Chicago. Right. And then in Chicago, though, she's got a full life because that cop has business with her.

[Joe Mandy]

Okay. Can I say something, Paul?

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Joe Mandy]

One of my favorite moments of this film was when the cop says he wants her for some sort of. For leaving the scene of a crime in Salt Lake City. Whatever he says he's there for. And he says, what are you doing in Chicago? And she says, it's. This isn't a direct quote, but I believe she says, I make wigs and I'm here drumming up business.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, basically.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Joe Mandy]

And I. I know she said drumming up business, and I. I cannot tell you how obsessed I am. Well, first of all, was she actually doing that? Does she make wigs? Was that a cover? She's paying her rent.

[June Diane Raphael]

She seems to have, like, a wholesale connection to wigs.

[Joe Mandy]

But how do you drum up wig?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I don't think she's selling wigs. I think that's her cover again. I kept thinking like this movie is she has a cover and her cover is she's a wig seller, you know, but she's not.

[Paul Scheer]

If she's not a wig. If she's not a wig seller, then her job is just killing men randomly all around the country.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Killer of creeps, like, based on like, just like she goes to a city and is like, they'll find me. The people that need to die, guess what? They're gonna find me. So I'll just wait.

[June Diane Raphael]

Unless they're blind. And then I will. I will consider that person my life partner and give up my entire seemingly job to be a murderer just to.

[Paul Scheer]

Be like it seems to be and not, you know, look, I don't want to make aspersions on it, but. Seems to be like a housewife. That. That would. She.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She becomes a trad wife. She becomes a trad wife. Yes.

[Joe Mandy]

She doesn't. She has a thriving business.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She's got a.

[Joe Mandy]

She's an astrologer.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, I'm sorry. Talk about the astrology now, please. It is baked, by the way.

[Paul Scheer]

Have you not seen this movie? You are like, every detail, like, Right.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, my God, I completely forgot the astrology.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The astrology part is astrology essentially to the movie while simultaneously being completely inessential. It is. It is mentioned in every scene, but it doesn't help us understand the characters.

[Paul Scheer]

Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Whatsoever.

[Paul Scheer]

Because she's a Pisces.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. Which she talks about constantly.

[June Diane Raphael]

And you know what? She is such a Pisces. Can I just say that?

[Paul Scheer]

And so he does open up for her an astrology store.

[Joe Mandy]

Yeah. Now, what she. What exactly she's selling there? I can't. I couldn't tell you what the goods.

[June Diane Raphael]

What the products are because I don't.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Think.

[Paul Scheer]

Astrological wigs, like you wear this when. When the moon is in your.

[June Diane Raphael]

She reads you your wig chart.

[Paul Scheer]

I'm getting a message from beyond. It's a blonde wig.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Ewan McGregor successfully gets her to wear a microphone on her body constantly by giving her a Pisces pendant. Right. You would think having access to that microphone would let us understand everything subsequent in the movie because we now have audio on everything. I also say this doesn't help us.

[Paul Scheer]

At all, as all of us have acted in many a thing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So many.

[Paul Scheer]

A microphone doesn't even last with a battery pack on your body for more than four hours. And that's when you have a power source attached to it. This woman has been wearing this for, again, conservatively seven years. And it's still. Still cracking. Like, still.

[Joe Mandy]

Well, yeah, so. But here's the thing. It's like she does lose her religion at one point. And I think it's after the blind man dies in the car accident where she says, I'm not into astrology anymore. Because here's where it does sort of become relevant is I think he's kind of tracking her move and maybe figured out that she was in Alaska because he's still reading her horoscope.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And you think that the horoscope is pointing him towards her?

[Joe Mandy]

I think the horoscope is saying things like, go as far as you can maybe go. And, you know, whatever. And he's. Yeah, he's.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This reminds me of that movie we did, the January man, that was also like a murder serial killer thriller that also had a component that was like the months of the year and blah, blah. And it also didn't add up to anything. Like, I felt like this was a movie about two assassins or spies or something like that. Except that we were following the wrong people. Like, I. I didn't feel like that we were following the people who were important to the story.

[June Diane Raphael]

Right. It's like, What? It's like Mr. And Mrs. Smith. And then you find out, like two hours in, it's like, oh, these were not the right Smiths we were supposed to follow.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, we made the mistake. The movie is like, the camera's like, oh, wait, shit. Yeah, we followed the wrong person.

[Joe Mandy]

In the eye of the beholder.

[Paul Scheer]

I did look up online. Pisces only make up 9% of serial killers, so not that high. And one of their toxic.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What's the number one? Oh, yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

One of their toxic traits is escaping out of reality. So that seems about right. Okay, I will look at who makes up the.

[June Diane Raphael]

I'm a Pisces. Just gotta say, oh, Mandy, I'm out. I'm out.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, but guess what? But here it is. Pisces makes up the highest percentage of serial killers. I guess that's 9%.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Followed by 9%.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. Followed by Scorpio, Sagittarius and Gemini. But Pisces is always number one.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So Pisces is number one. And Scorpio. And what are you guys.

[June Diane Raphael]

Let me just say the numbers are going to go up.

[Paul Scheer]

I'm not going to.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Paul and Jesus, June, what are you guys?

[Paul Scheer]

Well, Aquarius.

[Joe Mandy]

Well, a Capricorn sun, but a Scorpio rising in a Leo moon. And I have to say to everyone listening the sun signs mean very little. So I could say I'm a Capricorn because I was born in January, but what I really am is a Scorpio.

[June Diane Raphael]

I do think the sun signs help with wig determines.

[Paul Scheer]

Well now that's true.

[Joe Mandy]

Yes, they do. The sun sign is all about how the world perceives you. But often your rising sign is like, how do you feel internally?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I would have loved it if we understood her character through every wig. How it changed who she was, changes her to be. What does it mean to be a brunette in San Francisco but a blonde in Chicago? What is that?

[Joe Mandy]

That's why I was obsessed with the last look. Because I was like, if she pulls off that ratty Alaska hair and it turns out to be a wig, then like she is the best wig maker.

[Paul Scheer]

In the world and maybe she's up there something.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, I actually I have a real disability for I have wig blindness.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh.

[June Diane Raphael]

And it's something.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm so sorry.

[June Diane Raphael]

My co workers and my wife ridicule me about to no end. But like legit until she put on her like third wig. Like I literally can't tell if an actress is wearing.

[Paul Scheer]

Joe, I am right with you.

[Joe Mandy]

Has this about fake boobs.

[Paul Scheer]

I have it about boobs and wigs. Boobs and wigs. I can't tell. I just take people at face value.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm locked in. I'm locked in. I get it. I see them. I see it all.

[Paul Scheer]

Joe, would you say. Because this is. I'm reading more about the Pisces and serial killering. They said that they make up a good serial killer because Pisces are sweet, but when they get taken advantage of and pushed and pushed, then they snap. Not that they have to kill, but that's a. Is that a.

[June Diane Raphael]

Do you feel like you very accurate description of me?

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know what's interesting now that I. Now that we're talking about it, it's also strange that the January man is also a month and astrological sign based serial killer. Like these movies have an odd similarity for both being meandering and nonsensical.

[Paul Scheer]

I guess. Like the thing that I really wish this movie was and maybe we've circled it a few times, but is like he should have just been following a serial killer. He should have been one of the cops and those other two guys that were also chasing. They should have all been working together. He could have been working against them. But instead they convolute it and we don't ever hear them say she is a serial killer.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But here's what I'm even more.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes, sorry, sorry. But like, I think a good movie would be a cop following a serial killer, a female or whatever he's attracted to and become sympathetic and sort of abets the crime.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. So, yes. Stockholm syndrome over the course of the movie where he, by watching her, he starts to like fall in love with her or become like, become sympathetic to her or become. Is such a. Like, let us watch him descend into.

[June Diane Raphael]

This while he starts helping, like greasing the tracks for making things easier for her.

[Paul Scheer]

This is that movie Jade that we did with David Caruso where he like.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, Jade.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. Another one of these thrillers, but this one kind of messes it up because it's. I would also argue this. Not that I'm all. It doesn't have enough sex nor violence. It kind of is just the creepy in between. Like, I could see that. Like, it's like you're there. It's not even. It's not titillating on either side of it. It just kind of feels like the boring stuff of these movies.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Right. This is a, this is a not erotic thriller, you know. You know, the only sex scene we see is between the boss and the, the woman in the. In his first mission, the Cold Open, essentially where he records them fucking at the office and then posts it to everybody's computer or whatever. You know, that's how good he is as a hacker. Again, Ewan McGregor is a hacker in. But why was he doing tech?

[Paul Scheer]

But why was he also doing that?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That was what, that's what they told him, Hugo told him to do.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I will tell you this. You know, we're going to get the second opinions in one second. But I have never done this before. I went to dove.org, which is the faith and family focused reviews for today's media to see what they had to say about this movie. And they write a review. It's. It's not Dove approved. It's not a Dove approved film, but they call it a unpredictable, darkly humored thriller. So they're seeing humor in it. But what they say is bad about this movie because it. The eye of the beholder makes a statement about how someone can become psychologically unsound by shutting himself off from society and filling his existence with nothing but high tech gadgets.

[Joe Mandy]

Okay, well, there is a, there is a narrative under, under here somewhere about, yes, tech, the fear of technology. Because at one point, I don't know if anyone noticed that Katie Lang's on FaceTime with her mother.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, right.

[Joe Mandy]

Who's telling her not to come home for Thanksgiving because they can just email her FaceTime. Her mom, her sweet elderly mom is saying this. So it does seem like people are getting out of control.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, it seems like it also feels like some sort of future state. It feels like it's trying to be like, not just relevant for the moment, but looking forward to a time when you can just jump on a video call and blah, blah. Like almost like it's enemy of the state or it's some sort of like we're just a few years. Like the. Because she keeps. They're using jargon too. She keeps saying things like you're online. You're like they're using terminology that is new. Like Internet speak, you know, in a way to help the audience understand what the fuck they're watching.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh yeah, yeah. And at the end of the day, I mean, all he wants to do is find love or reconnect with his daughter. And I feel like if he's so good at finding people, why has he.

[Joe Mandy]

Not been able to find his daughter?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Why not? Why not?

[June Diane Raphael]

Who's alive?

[Paul Scheer]

Right.

[Joe Mandy]

Who's as far as we know, very much so. I have questions there.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. Oh yeah, I have questions about all of it. Why not? He can do everything. So why not apply your skill set to your daughter?

[June Diane Raphael]

And I've never done this before, but I just went on dove.com, which is a soap website and they have a body wash, a seasonal body was wash called cinnamon pumpkin pie.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay.

[June Diane Raphael]

And a slice of cinnamon pumpkin pie now in a body wash. Mouth watering scent of sweet cinnamon spice and buttery pumpkin notes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, I don't want, I don't want anybody crawling into bed with me smelling like a pumpkin piece.

[June Diane Raphael]

When I get into a bath or a shower or a ice plunge, I want my mouth to be watered.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, and now the new Dove soap. You know, it's a, it's a, a strawberry shortcake fribble from Friendly's.

[Paul Scheer]

Now I'm upset. All right, obviously we had opinions about this movie, but there are people out there with a different opinion. It is now time for second opinions. Don't trust the mainstream for information. Don't trust Grammarly for punctuation.

[June Diane Raphael]

Don't trust the surgeon to make incisions.

[Paul Scheer]

Opinions, check out Amazon user reviews. Get a second opinion. Second opinions, second opinions. Thank you, Ben Lee. A new second opinion song. There. Second time we've played that. All right. Eye of the Beholder has a lot of five star reviews on Amazon. As a matter of fact, 43% of the reviews out of 434 reviews are five star. And I just wanted to get into it because these are interesting across the board. I had to really figure out which ones to read because every one of them got me. This one is titled Gutsy and Creative by Gary Dallas. This is perhaps the least formulaic movie you will ever see. It's also an extremely difficult story to tell because both of the two leading characters suffer from mental illnesses and both characters behave very badly. Viewers give movies low ratings when they don't get what they wanted from watching the movies. In this case, the two famous and beautiful actors never kiss each other. Furthermore, they don't even talk to each other until the final scenes. That's gotta be disappointing for a lot of viewers. However, it does not make this a bad movie. You should know that watching it in advance, that this is a story about a serial killer. 5 stars. I do like that both characters suffer from mental illness. So that's. That is why the movie is hard to.

[Joe Mandy]

That's true.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. It's hard to parse. We're following. There's no reliable narrator in it. Essentially.

[June Diane Raphael]

He's not. He's not wrong. But it's the least formulaic movie you've ever seen. There's no formula.

[Paul Scheer]

No. Yeah. There's no plot.

[June Diane Raphael]

Nothing's going on. Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Qwerty titled this. What's not to like? One of my top five. This was written in 2022.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, my God.

[Paul Scheer]

Quirky, atmospheric, and surreal. So what's not to like? The ensemble cast, quote, unquote. Got it. And a subtle nod to Orson Welles makes this a landmark noir film in my estimation. Ms. Judd was superlative and deserved an Oscar, but the Academy doesn't recognize groundbreaking films until years after they're made.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, my God.

[Paul Scheer]

Great filmmaking. So.

[Joe Mandy]

Wow.

[Paul Scheer]

I. I find that a lot of people are making a lot of appeals to Ashley Judd, as if she's going through the Amazon reviews and being like, maybe I should date this person. I. I think a lot of it. She's so beautiful. She's so gorgeous. This. This one is from Jeff H. And he writes, I didn't like the murdering part, but that could just be a way of ending a relationship.

[June Diane Raphael]

The ultimate way.

[Paul Scheer]

Five stars.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I like that this person thinks this is a movie about relationships. I just like.

[Paul Scheer]

It's like, well, I get it. I mean, on some level, I get it. It's just about, you know, she's a hard time ending relationships. Joseph Kenny writes this. The movie kept me on the edge of my seat partly because I can imagine Judd as a serial killer in real life. Five stars.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow.

[June Diane Raphael]

Wow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She has been in so many better. So many more movies that are better versions of this movie.

[Joe Mandy]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That to like this movie is because you're saying you like her feels nuts to me. I'm like, just watch any of those other movies.

[June Diane Raphael]

Double Jeopardy. Kiss the Girls.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes. Yeah.

[Joe Mandy]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

And this one, I think, from Warren just kind of sums it all up. The title is Couldn't Stop Watching. It caught me from the beginning. The visuals, the song, the magician. I don't know. The magician's wand in the hands of a director and camera. Unusually captivating. And I can't tell you why. I can't. Can't tell you why. I like it.

[June Diane Raphael]

I can't tell you why, but I am writing this, posting it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wait, will you mention wand line again?

[Paul Scheer]

The magician's wand in the hands of the director and camera. Unusual, captivating. It's like the director is a magician using his wand. But I can't tell you why, because I've been captivated. I will tell you this, Jason, you were right. It was based on a book. Mark Beam's novel, Eye of the Beholder. It was a remake of Claude miller film from 1983 called Deadly Circuit. Now, the original book was optioned by producer Philip Jordan for a film starring Charlton Heston. He said no, but the book is about a detective character who has no name and is much older and less successful than Ewan McGregor. And the plot takes place over a much longer time span. And in the. In the book version, crucially, there is no explanation of the heroine's murderous activities. So.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So this is staying true, I guess.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, I guess they figured, why wreck a good thing? So that is really it. The director did not want Ashley Judd. He wanted it to be a much older woman. But Ashley Judd campaigned for this part. She begged for this part, and he relented. He let her in. So there we go.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And I mean, you are watching two very compelling actors, I think.

[June Diane Raphael]

Actually, we didn't mention, but Jason Priestley kind of stole the terrific. He's so good in this limited role.

[Joe Mandy]

Recognizable.

[Paul Scheer]

He comes in great as a. It's a fun part and it's sleazy, but also like. Like he's not scenery.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The movie is essentially a cobbled together series of vignettes where Ashley Judd goes to a place, settles into a life, murders a creep, moves on, and Ewan McGregor is always following her. So it's basically a series of Ashley Judd and another person, a creep in this case, like Jason Priestley. And that scene, that section is dynamite. But you're also just cutting Back to Ewan McGregor, always alone. And what a weird movie to be following one of the main characters who has nobody but his ghost daughter to bounce off of. You know, like when his ghost daughter is there, you know, clickety clacking, all the 1930s noisemakers and jumping rope. I was like, what is this? Why?

[June Diane Raphael]

What you're describing are a series of sort of contained almost snow globes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That.

[June Diane Raphael]

Ewan McGregor's watching from the outside.

[Paul Scheer]

It's so true. There is a moment in one of the deleted scenes, another deleted scene where his daughter comes up to Ewan McGregor and says, you must follow her. You must. Wherever she goes. She's giving him permission. And then what happens is the camera pulls out, pulls out, pulls out. And it's not a joke. And then he's in a snow globe. And then a harsh cut to Chicago. That is not. That is a deleted scene that is in there. I was like, how could I play it? But you can't. You can't see it. It's like. So he is also living in this snow globe life. And maybe so is this.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Do. Do we think this movie lives in the world that St. Elsewhere lives in, where all of St. Elsewhere was in a snow globe inside of the mind of the.

[Paul Scheer]

The autistic character?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Joe Mandy]

I do think it's fascinating that Ashley Judd campaigned to be in this movie. I mean, I. Every time I see her, I mean, she. I'm fascinated by her career because, of course, like, she's the first A list actress to go on the record about Harvey Weinstein before anyone else. I mean, his assistants and other people have. But the first one who, like, did the story of the New York Times that changed everything. And it has been like Peter Jackson came out to say, like, yes, yes. He executed an intense smear campaign.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Joe Mandy]

I didn't put her in Lord of the Rings because of it. And it's like, okay, it was made in 90. It's just hard to know what was going on with Aljada at that time, you know?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But she's terrific. She's terrific. And the movie, the movie isn't helping either of them by not allowing them any access into the interior of these characters. By keeping them or scenes together. Yes. By keeping the audience completely at a distance from their motivations and how they feel. They appear to be just flat characters, but they are both terrific actors. So you're getting so much, but you can't help but Feel like, in service of what? Like, what are you trying to show me?

[Paul Scheer]

And that's why I think that the movie fucks with you, because you're like, what am I not getting? But now, talking to all of you, we're getting everything. We're getting everything.

[June Diane Raphael]

Joe, another thing I was wondering. Yeah, sorry, I know you're like, no, no.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

Like, I was watching this movie thinking how strange it was that K D Lang was given such a. I. Big part.

[Joe Mandy]

Comedy did quite well. She did.

[June Diane Raphael]

But I was. All I was thinking was, what is the 2024 version of this kind of camera? Oh, like, what kind of figure in. I would assume music would be kind of like a fun, like, comic relief. Like, oh, that's weird that this person's in this.

[Paul Scheer]

I want to go, like, younger. I want to go younger than, like, Reba. Right, But Reba's always popping up in something like a chapel.

[Joe Mandy]

Roan. Like, just.

[June Diane Raphael]

I was gonna say chapel.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's like. It's like. It's like action Bronson being in the Martin Scorsese movie, you know?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes, yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wasn't it Martin Scorsese?

[Joe Mandy]

Well.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, you know, it would be Jelly Roll. Yeah, Jelly Roll would be. Oh, man. Come on.

[Joe Mandy]

I really want to see a movie, though, where, like, the field agent in whatever organization doesn't have this sort of banter with the tech person on the other end. Like, where it's just like a very civil, very nice relationship. Like, nothing contentious, not doing bits, not really enjoying each other. Just like a really.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, also asking him.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

For his password. Even though he's on camera with his face seemingly on such a secure line. She's got all the information in front of him. He's on. No one could call into her setup.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Why does he need to be. And this is real. And because we never find out. So. I know. I'm asking a question. Why does he need to be British? Why does he need to be a British agent operating in America? He is a Washington, D.C. based agent named I, code name I.

[Paul Scheer]

That's okay.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And he just operates all over America only.

[Paul Scheer]

But.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But why?

[Paul Scheer]

What?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What do we. Why?

[Paul Scheer]

Why, why?

[June Diane Raphael]

We're not limited to the continental United States.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Nope.

[June Diane Raphael]

You can't go to Alaska.

[Joe Mandy]

Now, Joe, final question.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Joe Mandy]

Do you think this is a wig or not?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Whoa, whoa.

[June Diane Raphael]

No, I don't. I don't. Because it's, like, pulled back. But I also don't. I. I literally don't be pulled back. See, that's how. That's how blind I am. This is it's. Really bad.

[Joe Mandy]

You imagine that all wigs are just. You have to wear them hair down.

[June Diane Raphael]

The only wig I know is like, a wig is when it's like Bride of Frankenstein. You know what I mean? Like, that's what I'm like. That's fake.

[Joe Mandy]

No, we'll say in this movie there's not a pin in a single wig. It was just sort of taken off and thrown. And it's like, w. That. That is pretty impressive that the wigs are staying on and not.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, they're like mission impossible masks. They are, like, so sturdy and so perfect looking and then immediately, like, gonzo.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

See, I just. I just learned that you have to pin down a wig. Like, that's how dumb I am. Oh.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

If not, glue down a wig.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, it's. It is. It's. I think it's a hard thing to see because I want to.

[Joe Mandy]

Have you ever seen in Nicole Kidman movie?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. And I always think it's her hair. And I get. I'm serious.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I don't.

[Paul Scheer]

Joe, I'm right with you. I am confused. I'm just taking it by face value. Whatever you got showing me up, I'm like, great. I buy it. Sometimes people will take off.

[June Diane Raphael]

Don't let me. I can tell what titties are, though.

[Paul Scheer]

All right.

[Joe Mandy]

I can.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Again, I believe. I don't know if I can.

[Joe Mandy]

You just accept what's in front of you.

[Paul Scheer]

I accept it. I'm not. I'm also, like, not. Like, I'm not. I guess if it's, like, really ridiculous, I could probably figure it out, but I'm not looking too much. I'm not like. I'm not trying to, like, zoom in on it.

[Joe Mandy]

That's very nice.

[Paul Scheer]

I will. I will say that's one of my favorite times I've ever worked on a movie was with an actor. I'm trying to keep it very vague. Who. We were sitting in our chairs and he's like, see that? And I go, yeah. He goes, butt implant. And I said, oh, really? He's like, yeah, butt implant. And I said, oh, wow. And then like, somebody else walked by a little bit later, he's like, another one butt implant. And I was like, oh, wow. Wow. I guess. And then another person walked by, like, butt implant. And. And then. And everybody. Everyone that we saw, like, it went. I would say, conservatively, on this movie, he saw 15 butt implants. And he would always point.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I would argue that if you really drilled down into it, the only butt implant on that set would be His.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. Yeah, he's full projection.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Just trying to throw you off.

[Joe Mandy]

Which, by the way, just a quick psa. Butt implants are the most dangerous. Like. Oh, yeah, plastic surgery. Like the amount of women who die getting butt implants.

[Paul Scheer]

Or were they killed by a plastic surgeon who's trying to discover her tracks with her wig sales?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Exactly what I mean, I would love to know what the fuck. If somebody has read the book, give us a sense of what the hell. I wish I understood. Because there's. For an erotic thriller or for something that has the markers of a erotic thriller, it is neither erotic nor particularly thrilled.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, that's what I'm saying. There's no, like, it's not enough sex. There's not enough violence to keep you titillated on either way.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Not enough story. No, it's not even enough story to make me feel like I'm on the case too. Or I'm uncovering clues or there's no.

[Paul Scheer]

There's nothing to uncover. There's no story. Like.

[June Diane Raphael]

And sometimes action movies kind of suck, but you can just let it wash over you just with the scenery or the production design. And like, even that sucked ass. Like.

[Joe Mandy]

Like. Like all we had were the wigs.

[June Diane Raphael]

Which we had the wigs and his, like, microphone gun and that's it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Really confusing. Genuinely confusing.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, I guess the question. I mean, I feel like we can put together through context clues what we feel about. But would you recommend this film?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I wouldn't. I wouldn't. Only in the sense that, like I was saying earlier, I think there are so many more movies in this space starring Ashley Judd giving better performances from both of these people in the neo noir style of stuff that I would watch instead, frankly, including the ones we've already mentioned. But then keep going forward. And either the movies we've done on this podcast, Jade or Sliver, we talked.

[Paul Scheer]

About, we gotta talk about. We gotta do.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

All of those movies are better than better versions of this than this is.

[Paul Scheer]

I don't know. I will say great movie for us to talk about. And I feel like if you don't watch it, I'm. I'm surprised remembering the things like astrology in this movie. Way more fun to hear about this movie than to spend the hour and 40 minutes, which felt like two hours and a half. It felt so long.

[Joe Mandy]

Yeah, I agree. And yeah. Merry Christmas, Daddy.

[Paul Scheer]

Merry Christmas, Daddy.

[June Diane Raphael]

Is it. Is it a wig, though?

[Paul Scheer]

June? Is it a wig?

[Joe Mandy]

Is this a wig?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Joe, your Special comes out December 13th. You do a monthly show live at Largo I mean, it's weird. I can't say, like, what's your special about it? You. You are. You are one of the people who make me laugh so much online, but you are a great standup and a fantastic writer. So just watch the thing. It's like.

[June Diane Raphael]

Just watch the thing.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

I don't even know how to describe what I like, you know?

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. How do you describe what it is beyond. This is Joe, and he's great. And if you. And please, as I've talked to Joe about this offline, follow his Instagram, because he is doing the Lord's work on finding things that are shocking.

[June Diane Raphael]

I know. I really gotta say, like, you mentioned all my credits earlier, and I do appreciate that, but I do think my real job is curating a truly, like, depraved and unhinged Instagram story output. Like, that's it.

[Joe Mandy]

I've never seen out there.

[Paul Scheer]

I've never seen anything like it. And I can only imagine, you know, your algorithm, the is. I mean, is so fucked in so many ways. Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

Poison.

[Paul Scheer]

It is. It is amazing to me. All right, so Joe's special comes out on Hulu. You can. If you see him in la, you can see him in la. You can follow him on tour, you could do all the things, just follow him on social media. It's going to be great.

[June Diane Raphael]

How did this get made?

[Paul Scheer]

A big thank you to Joe, Mandy, for joining us, people. How did this get made? Is going to be in your house. That's right. Our live virtual holiday show with. With, of course, our holiday special person, Jessica Sinclair, is coming to you. Wherever you have a streaming service, a computer, whatever it is, it's our virtual live show on December 12th. You can get tickets right now by going to hdtgm.com tickets are cheap and it's going to be a lot of fun. Also, if you're in the Philadelphia area, come see us in Philly, y'all. That's right. We are going to bring it back to Philly. And if you want to see Jason and I on the road, we're going to be in Boston and D.C. and in New York. That's right. You could see Dinosaur Improv Live. Tickets for all of these events are [e-mail] now, most importantly, if you have a correction or omission about this movie, and God knows there's going to be a lot, please go to our Discord at Discord GG hdtgm and tune in next week to see if we picked yours as being one of the best you can also give me a call at 619-Paul-ASK. Please give us calls. We love calls. We will respond to to all of your questions. And next week I'm excited because we had a fascinating chat with Michael Tara Garver, who runs a studio creating large scale immersive experiences. She worked in the Star Wars Hotel and Sleep no More and now we're going to be talking about the future of immersive entertainment with her. So tune in next week to hear all about the things that you might have missed from Ivy Beholder and how immersive theater actually lives. My book Joyful Recollections of the Trauma is still available wherever you get books, audio books or ebooks. If you want a book personalized for the holidays, go to my website website paulshear.com or how did this get made.com and you can just order one from Chevaliers. I will put whatever you want in there except for Team Fred. And remember when you listen to us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, it really is important that you subscribe to us. Okay, leave a comment. You know, have those automatic downloads turned on in the show settings people. It's free, so if you do that for us, we are even. And last but not least, I got to thank our entire team for who the show could not be done without. I'm talking about our producers Scott Sonny, Molly Reynolds and our movie picking producer Avril Halle and our engineer Casey Holford and our associate producer Jess Cisneros. That's all I got people. We'll see you next week on Last Looks. Bye for Building a business may feel like a big jump, but On Deck small business loans can help keep you afloat with lines of credit up to $100,000 and term loans up to 250,000. OnDeck lets you choose the loan that's right for your business. As a top rated online small business lender, OnDeck's team of loan advisors can help you find the right business loan to fit your needs. Visit ondeck.com for more information. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business may be issued by On Deck or Celtic Bank. On Deck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. T Mobile 5G Internet keeps getting better. Boost your connection to harder to reach places with Home Internet plus and get Internet right where you want it with.

[June Diane Raphael]

WI fi that reaches the attic. I finally have a home office.

[Paul Scheer]

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