Passion Play

Summary

Episode Summary: "Passion Play" | How Did This Get Made?

Release Date: February 7, 2025

In this episode of How Did This Get Made?, hosts Paul Scheer, June Diane Raphael, and Jason Mantzoukas delve into the convoluted and critically panned film "Passion Play". Known for their comedic analysis of the worst films ever made, the trio unpacks the myriad of inconsistencies, questionable plot choices, and over-the-top performances that make "Passion Play" a quintessential example of cinematic missteps.

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1. Introduction to "Passion Play"

The episode kicks off with Paul Scheer introducing the film:

[01:54] Paul Scheer: "Hello, people of Earth, and welcome to How Did This Get Made? The movie is Passion Play."

"Passion Play" is described as a 2011 film featuring Mickey Rourke as a former junkie with a hit on his head. After narrowly escaping death, Rourke's character encounters a winged woman, portrayed by Megan Fox, whom he attempts to sell to a gangster played by Bill Murray to remove the bounty on his life. However, complications arise when he falls in love with her instead.

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2. Initial Impressions and Plot Confusion

From the outset, the hosts express their frustration with the film's narrative structure:

[02:35] June Diane Raphael: "Worse than I was. Worse than I was before. I started this movie at 9:30 this morning."

[03:14] Paul Scheer: "Yes."

They highlight the movie's Jacob's Ladder-esque elements, suggesting that much of the film is a figment of Rourke's character's imagination as he grapples with his impending death.

[04:26] Paul Scheer: "A Passion Play is normally related to like, religion... Now where this movie falls apart is he dies and he's dead."

The hosts grapple with the film's lack of coherence, questioning the reality of events within the movie:

[05:09] Jason Mantzoukas: "Where are they? Are they in Las Vegas? Are they in Albuquerque?"

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3. Character Analysis

Mickey Rourke's Character: Rourke's portrayal is dissected, with Scheer criticizing the character's decision-making and intelligence:

[13:03] June Diane Raphael: "...this whole thing is a dreamlike piece of, like, fictional storytelling inside the protagonist's brain."

[13:17] June Diane Raphael: "It's hard to criticize a movie when it's the vision of one of its main characters who is an idiot."

Megan Fox's Character: Fox's portrayal of a winged woman is a central focus. The hosts discuss the impracticality of her character having bird-like wings, both physically and logically:

[06:35] June Diane Raphael: "Why keep perpetuating the narrative that she's a bird woman?"

[09:30] Jason Mantzoukas: "She just is a figment of his imagination."

Bill Murray's Character: Bill Murray's role as the gangster is viewed more favorably, with praise for his restrained performance:

[25:03] June Diane Raphael: "I liked how oddly restrained he is. It reminds me of Mad Dog and Glory."

[26:03] June Diane Raphael: "Bill Murray has that kind of mystique."

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4. Technical Critiques

The hosts highlight several technical flaws that detract from the film's quality:

• CGI and Visual Effects:

  [03:31] June Diane Raphael: "It was so CGI'd out. It's like the room. Tommy level CGI."

• Continuity Issues:

  [12:15] June Diane Raphael: "There are a lot of continuity problems."

  Examples include inconsistent time frames and character appearances, such as:

  [12:24] June Diane Raphael: "Full long johns. He's nude."

• Soundtrack and Scene-Matching:

  [17:51] June Diane Raphael: "The music that's playing isn't the music of the jazz band. It's slow, plaintive piano and cello music."

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5. Thematic Exploration

The episode delves into the film's underlying themes and metaphors:

• Redemption and Guilt:

  The hosts interpret the film as Rourke's character attempting to redeem himself by saving another person, possibly reflecting his own regrets.

• Illusion vs. Reality:

  The concept of the entire narrative being a dream or hallucination adds layers of confusion, making it difficult to discern what's real within the movie.

  [38:48] Paul Scheer: "Do you think this is Bill Murray doing Kevin Spacey?"

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6. Notable Scenes and Performances

Several scenes are highlighted for their memorability, albeit often for their absurdity:

• Megan Fox's Wings:

  [06:35] June Diane Raphael: "Why keep perpetuating the narrative that she's a bird woman?"

• The Trumpet Scene:

  A particularly emotional moment where Rourke's character struggles to let go of his trumpet:

  [43:55] Paul Scheer: "He legitimately broke my heart when he is plaintively, clearly, like, not wanting to let go of this instrument."

• Sex Scene Controversy:

  The controversial portrayal of a relationship between Fox's 23-year-old character and Rourke's 57-year-old character is critiqued heavily:

  [30:57] June Diane Raphael: "This was chilly."

  [32:09] Jason Mantzoukas: "I just don't want to see him. Just lay there like a dinner."

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7. Final Thoughts and Reception

Despite the overwhelming criticisms, the hosts acknowledge that "Passion Play" has garnered a small group of dedicated fans who appreciate its unique blend of themes and performances:

[54:02] June Diane Raphael: "There are people out there who liked it... They are telling me things but not showing me the word."

However, the consensus among the hosts remains that the film is a tangled mess of poor storytelling, questionable character decisions, and technical shortcomings. They debate its place as a "dad core" movie—a passion project driven more by personal interests than cohesive storytelling.

[66:36] Paul Scheer: "This is a dad core movie."

[66:44] Paul Scheer: "Another banger."

Ultimately, the episode serves as both a critique and celebration of cinematic failures, highlighting how even the worst movies can provide ample material for engaging and humorous discussion.

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8. Episode Conclusion

The hosts wrap up by promoting upcoming events, tours, and their new series Dark Web, while encouraging listeners to engage with their content:

[68:25] Paul Scheer: "Come check us out on the road."

[68:45] Paul Scheer: "We had a big thank you to... Avril Halley, our movie picking producer."

The episode concludes with a heartfelt acknowledgment of their producer Matt Apodaca's departure and a final endorsement of the episode's featured movie as a "unique and different" viewing experience.

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Notable Quotes:

• Paul Scheer [02:35]: "Finally, a true Jacob's Ladder scenario."

• June Diane Raphael [04:17]: "How to discover Catch. You know, you wonder how to get this for let's wallow in the mediocrity of subpar art."

• Jason Mantzoukas [04:49]: "Answer to the question, how did this Get Made?"

• Paul Scheer [51:31]: "It is a cheat. It's like."

• Jason Mantzoukas [54:35]: "The tagline is love is stronger than death."

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Conclusion:

This episode of How Did This Get Made? exemplifies the show's knack for dissecting flawed films with humor and critical insight. While "Passion Play" may falter on multiple fronts, the hosts' lively debate and humorous exchanges turn its shortcomings into an entertaining exploration of what makes a movie notoriously bad. Whether you're a fan of the hosts or a lover of cinematic disasters, this episode offers a thorough and amusing breakdown of a film that arguably should never have been made.

Transcript

[Katie Nolan]

I'm Katie Nolan and I have a new podcast called Casuals. It's a podcast for people who like sports a normal amount. Casuals is a twice a week hang with me and my friends from across comedy, sports and entertainment where we talk about all the funny, weird, interesting stuff happening in and around the world of sports. So whether you're a die hard fan or just vaguely sports curious, Casuals is the podcast for you. You can find casuals on the SiriusXM app Pandora or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode. Give it a try. What's the worst that could happen?

[Paul Scheer]

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[Jason Mantzoukas]

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[Paul Scheer]

Finally, a true Jacob's Ladder scenario. We saw Passion Play, so you know what that means.

[June Diane Raphael]

Now it's time for how to discover Catch. You know, you wonder how to get this for let's wallow in the mediocrity of subpar art.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Perhaps we'll find the answer to the.

[Paul Scheer]

Question, how did this Get Made? Hello, people of Earth, and welcome to how did this Get Made? The movie is Passion Play. The year is 2011. The tagline between heaven and hell, there is fear. And what is it about? Well, Mickey Rourke is a former junkie with a hit on him. And after he escapes death in quotes, he finds a winged woman, that's Megan Fox, and offers to sell her to a gangster played by Bill Murray, to take the price off his head. But that is before he falls in love with her. Woof. All right. Hey, let me introduce to you my co Hosts Jason Manzoukas and June Diane Rayfield. How are you both?

[June Diane Raphael]

Worse. Worse than I was. Worse than I was before. I started this movie at 9:30 this morning.

[Paul Scheer]

Oof. Oof. I started it at midnight last night and it went down smooth until 1:45.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know what's so interesting? Like, we have a lot to talk about, obviously, but. And I don't want to jump to the end.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, please, jump to the end.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, fine. This movie was worth. Was all worth it for that one shot of Megan Fox holding Mickey Rourke like a baby, like a child. And flying through the air with him.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Honestly, I was like, oh, great. Like, it all. Everything is sort of the scenes where.

[Paul Scheer]

Megan Fox wants to fly and she's on a roof or she's on a cliff. And it's so CGI'd out. It's like the room. Tommy level CGI where.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, that's what you. You. When you said it came out in 2011, that. That blew my mind. Only because this movie looks like it was shot in the late 90s, early 2000s.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, I mean, it definitely was shot with. Yeah, I mean, this is, to me, like dad fanfic. It's like, you know, like a. Like a dad who's like, I love mystery novels and I love noir, and what I. I want to write. I could write a movie. Like, it feels like a. It feels like.

[June Diane Raphael]

But it's. It's that dad, if he also was given access to like 3 Vim vendors movies, you know, like, he also thinks, like. And, you know, kind of, you know, enigmatic editing and like, music montage moments. Like, there's a weird European cinema element to this that is unsuccessful.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. Well, okay, so just to. Just to start with the title, Passion. Now, is this a Passion Play?

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I was gonna Google it before we started, and I was. Cause a Passion Play is normally related to like, religion, right? It's like. That's like a dramatic representation leading up to and including the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Now where this movie falls apart is he dies and he's dead.

[June Diane Raphael]

I don't know. Cause he's flying through the air with an angel.

[Paul Scheer]

But I think he's dead though, right? I mean, I guess, like.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. No, I agree with you. I agree with you that this is a Jacob's Ladder scenario. When he's flying with the angel, he sees his own dead body in the desert where we left him at the beginning of the movie, where he got. Where he gets taken at the beginning of the.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, oh, wait, wait, wait.

[June Diane Raphael]

Wait, I'm gonna mute. I'm just gonna mute while June talks.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So I. Well, I didn't have my glasses on, so I'll start there. But I. I thought when he was flying over the desert that we were looking at the body of that henchman.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, okay, that makes sense.

[Paul Scheer]

But.

[June Diane Raphael]

But it wasn't. It was that.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, you could tell by all the chains and leather jackets and hats.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I couldn't see those details.

[June Diane Raphael]

Did you not notice the three piece suit over a tank top?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Notice? I just saw a body. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. He's flying by. And we're. And I did think to myself, oh, I guess we're just seeing some of the sights we saw earlier.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, we are, we are. But it wasn't the henchmen. It was his own body.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So this is a Jacob Slaughter scenario.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's truly, truly.

[Paul Scheer]

There's no. There is no. No doubt in my mind. Now here's something that I will just bring up that scene that you talk about, because we are starting at the end when she flying away with. With Mickey Rourke, who seems to be like, even from bird standards, be too heavy. It would be too much for Megan Fox's body to be.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Absolutely.

[June Diane Raphael]

You know, let me ask you guys a question about that. Specifically, because she has. Megan Fox has wings in this. We find her initially in a carnival setting, in a sideshow kind of setting, and people pay money to see the. The woman with angel wings. But then they keep clarifying that they're bird wings. Right? Why?

[Paul Scheer]

Right.

[June Diane Raphael]

Why keep doing that? Doesn't the. Doesn't the movie work if she is an angel trying to pull these. Pull Mickey Rourke out of hell or whatever. Is that what this is? Obviously, I think that's what it is saying. But then why keep perpetuating the narrative that she's a bird woman?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Great question.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I would also argue that I've seen movies like Michael, the John Travolta film, where he is an angel and he also sprouts wings or he has a broken wing or whatever. And those angel wings are very white and, you know, it's very, you know, pristine. She definitely has bird wings. Like her, the coloring is of a bird.

[June Diane Raphael]

So just to be clear, you are team bird woman.

[Paul Scheer]

Here's what I'm gonna say. I am team. It should be an angel. But someone made the choice that we're really leaning into bird when the digital.

[June Diane Raphael]

Asset we have for wings is darker color.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think there was a lot going on because first of all, to go back To Paul's point about Mickey Rourke being way too heavy because he's a dense man, you know, dense head, dense hair, dense body. He's dense in every way. So her wings, in order to, to fly holding him, they had to be at least double the size that they were, right?

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Just the width, the width of them, the scope of them, even her arm strength.

[Paul Scheer]

June?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Absolutely. No, absolutely.

[June Diane Raphael]

But he's also. And somebody physicist can comment. He's also falling.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

So she's fighting gravity. Not just his own weight to lift him, but to lift him against the gravitational pull.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But I think what happened, because I thought a lot about the wings, Jason and the bird wings and why they looked like bird feathers and also why at points they seem to be able to, seem to be able to remove them. But put that over there for a second.

[Paul Scheer]

Will they kind of like fold back up? But we never see them fall back up because it clearly didn't have the budget.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, that's the thing. I think they were like, if they are real angel wings, because angel wings are. Should be the size of her whole body.

[Paul Scheer]

Sure.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They should go down to the ground and they should be white and she should have a big wingspan. But I think they were just got lost in the sauce with like, oh, we need to be able to put them under a coat or a dress if they're always here.

[Paul Scheer]

But June, that would mean that they're very small. Like they're in between. Again, they are in between being very big and also not very small. Like they're not like tiny.

[June Diane Raphael]

I think what they were, what they were working against was the desire to have her wear almost nothing at all times while simultaneously letting us still believe she, she has full size wings attached to her back. And so I think they can't really, they can't really reconcile those two things. They want her to be next to naked all the time, but they also want her wings to be able to be hidden by her tiny dress, which it can't be.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, here's. But that's shot. I thought she actually took off her wings when she went, oh, what? They just were folding.

[June Diane Raphael]

I feel like she was just expressing the pain of these these days.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, when I, I do, I do appreciate that when she goes to sleep, she has to sleep on her stomach.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But here's the interesting thing though, and I. Because she does, there's a lot of, there's a lot of discussion when we first meet her about her lower back pain, about just what it is to be a woman with wings and it's sort of.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, it's a metaphor for big boobs.

[June Diane Raphael]

Right, Right, sure. But it's like she could get a wing reduction.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It seems like she did get a wing reduction.

[June Diane Raphael]

She did get. She consulted, but I just.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It almost seems like she's a creature that was not supposed to have these wings. As opposed to a species, an angel, a Someone who. There've been creatures like her that came before her. That this is something she procreated from. It seems like Megan Fox. The character. Her character. Someone put these wings on her human body and she's got to deal with them.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay, who?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I don't. I don't know.

[Paul Scheer]

That guy. That guy who found her very possessive. The.

[June Diane Raphael]

The Reese Fonz. Reese.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, that's Reese Fonz.

[June Diane Raphael]

The roommate from Notting Hill.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Always great to see.

[June Diane Raphael]

Incredible actor.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Always great. Always great.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way, cast in this movie, 100% like everyone's hitting it out of the park. Love this cast.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Amazing.

[June Diane Raphael]

This cast is. Everybody is a home run hit. It's like Rory Cochran is the person who buys his trumpet from him in the diner. Like, I was like, what's going on?

[Paul Scheer]

And here's what I'll say too. It. I have no issue with the acting. This director and writer, Mitch Glaser, you know, has been wanting to make this movie for a very long time. He's married to Kelly Lynch. This was his love story. This is how he felt that he fell in love with Kelly lynch when he originally wrote it. They're like, make it more like Splash. He's like, how dare you? That's not what I wanted to do. It was about the 50s and he held onto it. And then when Mickey Rourke was in trouble, he was like, I want to bring him back. And I want to bring him back in a way where he's not a thug. I want to bring him back to the popo Greenwich Village. Like this. This guy from diner. So, like, this is like. This is a passion project for the director. But I will say that's what it also feels like. It feels like there was very little deviation from anything. And there's a lot of stuff that makes no sense.

[June Diane Raphael]

It feels like there's a lot of, like, creative editing to make sense of this. Because there's also quite a lot of, like, continuity problems.

[Paul Scheer]

Huge.

[June Diane Raphael]

Like they go into a building at night and come out in the day. There's a lot of day for night stuff. There's a lot of like, he goes.

[Paul Scheer]

To bed shirtless, wakes up in a full long johns.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. Full long johns. He's nude. When he goes to bed, it's lumpy. The movie is lumpy. But it's, like, really interesting. I was fascinated to watch it. But what is interesting now to really think about, because I just finished it before we got on, is none of this is real, right? Like all of the movie. Megan Fox entirely having wings. The winged woman, the angel, the. All this stuff are the creation of Mickey Rourke's character in his own head while he dies in the desert. Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So, well, I'm just learning this now, so I'm really having to kind of reroute over here.

[June Diane Raphael]

And that makes sense as to why the movie is so bad is because he's just not smart enough, that character.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, and this is the thing, like, we. It's hard to critique a movie that is made that is the. The vision of an idiot of a character.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's hard to criticize a movie when it's the vision of one of its.

[Paul Scheer]

Main characters who is an idiot.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And also, where are they? Where are they?

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, it is.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Are they in Las Vegas? Are they in Albuquerque?

[June Diane Raphael]

Finds her in the desert at a carnival. And he says, your English is so good.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay.

[June Diane Raphael]

And she says she learned from watching tv.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So she is in. I believe. I believe they are in Mexico there.

[June Diane Raphael]

Where. And what we're meant to believe that she is a native Spanish speaker.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, she's Mexicana. Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, let's. Let's. Let's go back to why he might have an issue with his. Because when he dies, he is saved by. And again, we don't see the faces but a handful of Native Americans who are.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Are they Native Americans? I don't know.

[June Diane Raphael]

All dressed in white.

[Paul Scheer]

I. I am so upset that we did not get any payoff of that whatsoever.

[June Diane Raphael]

What's interesting is the movie offers you no answers to any questions. We don't. And now that we understand that it's a Jacob's Ladder scenario. That's why. Because there are no answers, because there is no story. Because this whole thing is a dream. And so the logic of it and the editing in the kind of, like, weird way that it's kind of a tone poem or whatever, is just the dream element of it. But, boy, does it make for a frustrating watch when you're like, who are those guys? When's that guy coming back? What's on offer here?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What I also like. I would love someone to count the number of lines Megan Fox has in this movie. I would say it's on so few. Yeah, you could count it on two hands.

[June Diane Raphael]

So few. And many of them are the same line. Many of them are versions of the same sentiment.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She's always and I know as long.

[June Diane Raphael]

As I'm with you, you can deal.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The deal was that I'm with you and so he's not a finger on him. That's the deal. Okay.

[Paul Scheer]

I felt like all I know about Megan Fox's character is she. Her character has some severe daddy issues. I feel like.

[June Diane Raphael]

What? No.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, she was. She was found in a garbage.

[Paul Scheer]

In a garbage.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's what he says, that he found her in the garbage.

[Katie Nolan]

I'm Katie Nolan and I have a new podcast called Casuals. It's a podcast for people who like sports a normal amount. Casuals is a twice a week hang with me and my friends from across comedy, sports and entertainment where we talk about all the funny, weird, interesting stuff happening in and around the world of sports. So whether you're a die hard fan or just vaguely sports curious, Casuals is the podcast for you. You can find casuals on the SiriusXM app Pandora or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode. Give it a try. What's the worst that could happen this.

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[Paul Scheer]

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[June Diane Raphael]

Well, it's interesting because it is a burlesque kind of, you know, strip club kind of environment. Right. And Mickey Rourke and his, like, I'm gonna say six piece jazz band are on stage. Right, Right. Mickey Rourke is a trump, a trumpet player of note. He's famous enough that he has made albums, although we don't know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Solo albums. Solo albums.

[June Diane Raphael]

None of. None of this is. Again, none of this is real, right? In his mind.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, that part is real, Jason.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, no, no, this is. No, no, no, we don't. No, it's. The part where they're playing in the strip club is real. The album is in Megan Fox's collection, so it's fake.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, you're right.

[June Diane Raphael]

The.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Because the album, he's already dead.

[June Diane Raphael]

So I mean. I mean, the mo. Who cares what's real and what's fake? The movie is so poor. That does such a poor job. Like, if we rewatched it right now, it's not going to be like rewatching the. The Sixth Sense after you find out the, The. The reveal. You know, I'm going to.

[Paul Scheer]

I'm going to believe that he released an album, but he. Because he was addicted to heroin, his career went downhill. I'd also argue it's because he smokes and plays the horn at the same time. This guy. I. I don't look. And Jason, I think you're more. You probably the most astute of us in this. Is that a thing? Are people smoking and playing a horned instrument at the same time?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yep. All right. Oh, yeah, that's. That's a very, like, Miles Davis. That's a very, like 40 40s jazz club vibe. Okay. The other thing is, what I loved is this is what I watched when I watched it, started it last night, and I was like, oh, this is gonna be wild. Is the. It's. It's this big jazz band on a stage, and the. The dancer is dancing with things, and it's a whole situation. But the music that's playing isn't the music of the jazz band. It's slow, plaintive piano and cello music. And. But the visual is this uptempo jazz band playing. So I'm like, what?

[Katie Nolan]

The.

[June Diane Raphael]

The. The disconnect between those two things is immediately jarring.

[Paul Scheer]

So bizarre that he seemed like. And look, what is his crime? You know, he's a recovering junkie, but he sleeps with. And we don't know it's his character yet, but he sleeps with Happy's wife, Happy is Bill Murray. And so Bill Murray has put a hit out on him. And the way the movie starts is, we're following this. This mook. This guy's gonna kill him. And that's the way that we see it. But I also don't know enough about this world. Like, I'm not invested in anything before he gets killed at all.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's so hard because they're. We're on this journey with him. And by the way, alive or dead, we're on this journey with him.

[Paul Scheer]

We have to be. We're locked in.

[June Diane Raphael]

We're.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We. We can't help but to be. We have to do a podcast about it. And so we're. We're on this journey. And I'm like, I hate this man. Oh, I hate him.

[Paul Scheer]

He smells. You know that he smells.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I hate. I hate who he is. I hate that he's peering at her through the window. I hate that he won't stop looking at her.

[June Diane Raphael]

So much creepiness.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I hate everything. I hate that he won't let her get those wings chopped off.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, first of all, I do want to talk about when she goes to the plastic surgeon to get those wings chopped off. It seems like they're doing it. Like, he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I'll do surgery today. You came in for a consultation. I'll knock these off right away. And when he runs into that room, I saw it, and I started laughing so hard, which is the. There's just a computer printout on white paper that says operating room. Like, it's this taped to the door.

[June Diane Raphael]

I also loved that the. He comes in and the doctor is in the consult with Megan Fox's character. Lily.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Lily Luster.

[June Diane Raphael]

Lily Luster. And he's holding up one of her wings and looking at it so, like, so quizzically. But you have to understand, like, the actor is just holding nothing. That is so. It's such a funny disconnect.

[Paul Scheer]

And when he goes. And he goes like, hey, you ever say a word about this, I'm gonna. I'm gonna kill. I'm gonna find out where you live and burn down your house. It's like this woman is performing all around the country in a carnival. Like, she's known. It's not like she's a secret.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's the thing I hate about him the most. Like, why take her out? She would. She was. She was living, I think, the best version of her life as a carnage.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think she. I think things did not get better from There, I think she was living in a tiny hotel room with him, and it was disgusting. And he barely had $2 throw up together. Then she goes to live with Bill Murray.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way, that hotel room was so low class, but so high class. Like, the, the owner of the motel is like, okay, so here's a twin bed and here's an open door. I was like, I've never been escorted into a room at a motel and shown around.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, the guy also knew his name. The guy also knew Mickey Rourke's name. So I'm like, is this where Mickey Rourke lives?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I was like, I, I wanted her to stay in that awesome Airstream and just live out her life doing a couple hours a night behind the glass.

[Paul Scheer]

And she wasn't getting, she wasn't nude, right? Like, she wasn't like, she wasn't like a stripper, but she was just like an oddity.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She was just something to be seen. A sideshow.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, I think she was just like, yes. The bearded woman or any of the other kind of sideshow performers that were.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The funnies though, is like, yes, she's in very little for much of the movie, but when they first, when he first gets her out of there and she leaves the trailer and, you know, saves him, the first time she saves him and they drive away, she's wearing such like, corporate casual outfits. Like, she is dressed as like a corporate junior executive very smartly.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, I would love it if that's where this went. She just immediately gets a job in middle management in like an office park.

[Paul Scheer]

Like. And then, and she's like, okay, I can reverse your mortgage. Hold on one second. Her wing just pops up. Like, I mean, I, I, well, we.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Don'T know where, where are we? Are we in, are we in New Mexico?

[June Diane Raphael]

Or where are we, where are we?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Arizona?

[June Diane Raphael]

I wrote 30 minutes in and it genuinely feels like the movie hasn't stopped.

[Paul Scheer]

No, the movie feels like it never really goes too many places. Because his immediate thought is, I am enamored with this woman. I need to meet her, I need to follow her. And you feel like he's in love with her. And then the next scene, he's like, let me sell her. Let me sell her to this gangster for a million dollars. Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

And I loved that scene, though. The scene where Mickey Rourke and, and, and Megan Fox are off standing on the, sitting on the top of the car or whatever. And then there's the music venue and Bill Murray and his right hand man sit in the empty seats of a giant music venue watching Solomon Burke, a legitimate legend. Watching Solomon Burke do a sound check, which is easily the best part of the movie. And then the doors to the back of the venue open completely, and we get a perfect view of Megan Fox like, a mile away, who just says to Mickey Rourke, you want to see my wings?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, the best part, too, is before that, a woman came up to. A woman came out. She's a young lady also dressed in corporate casual. Also looks like she's a manager, you know, of a small team in corporate America, and gives them a note. And then she. I mean, it was just so bizarre. And. And she says she did it for $20.

[June Diane Raphael]

I'm like, that character definitely was.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Get a paycheck every two weeks. It's probably direct deposit.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, yeah. You can complain. You can complain about this on Slanted.

[Paul Scheer]

I will say also, I love. There's no such thing, really, as a bad Bill Murray performance. And I actually love how oddly restrained he is. Like, it reminds me a little bit of, like, Mad Dog and Glory, a movie that I really enjoyed from back in the day. It's like. But like, he's playing this gangster, this tough guy, but he's really low key, but then has these moments where he does, like, get the fuck out of here. Like, that pushes her out of the way. And he. You get. I don't know. I love him in this. I'll tell you this. He was a replacement because one actor started shooting the movie for three days, and the director said, yeah, he just was too nervous to be acting with Mickey Rourke. So he's like, you know what? I can't. I can't. I can't handle this anymore. I gotta leave. And then Bill Murray called up the director, Mitch, director and writer, on Christmas Day. And Mitch is like, hey, man, can you help me out? And Bill Murray read the script on Christmas Day and said, I'm in. And Bill Murray just stepped in to be happy.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's so weird, because he's such a. You know, especially in this era is when Bill Murray still has that kind of mystique. Yes. It's impossible to reach him. He's so picky and choosy. He only does the things he wants to do and they're really high value for him or whatever. So the fact that he's in this, I'm just like, this is a head scratcher. I understand what Mickey Rourke is doing here. Wait, is this before or after the wrestler?

[Paul Scheer]

After.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's after.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

After the wrestler. Wow.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes. Because he felt that Mickey Rourke was being put into too Many roles where he was Jessica Meathead, a lunkhead, a bruiser. Yeah. And here's the thing. This guy wrote as one of the writers of Scrooged. So I think Bill Murray has a relationship with them, and they have their friendship. So that. That's what I think that makes.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

[Paul Scheer]

Like, I do. I just want to see more happy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I love.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, even when. When happy is sitting watching her, like, put on makeup or, like. And tells that monologue about why he's happy because he was so sad as a kid. I'm like, I'm in. I'm into this. Whatever this is.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He doesn't. He can't hit a wrong note. He just. Every choice he makes is. Is.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's great. Yeah. When he. When. When he takes Megan Fox away from Mickey Rourke and is like, okay, she's gonna come with me and you get out of here. I genuinely was like, I hope we follow Bill Murray and Megan Fox. And when Mickey Rourke breaks into the house and finds them, like, watching old black and white movies in the projection room, I was like, let's, please, let's let her stay.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And she seems quite comfortable there.

[Paul Scheer]

They seem like they're having a.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Favorite lines in this movie, aside from do you want to see my wings? Was right before that, she fucking slams Mickey Rourke, where she says to him, she's asking him about his career, and, you know, what happened? And then she goes, you were handsome. What happened? What happened? Yeah, I laughed so hard. I mean, I had some laughs.

[Paul Scheer]

My favorite, like, dialogue moment is we have just watched the first 20, 30 minutes of the film, and then Mickey Rourke gets on the phone with Kelly lynch and she just says. Describes the plot verbatim back to him. Wait a second. So you're telling me you went out to a desert, you got shot, you got saved by some Native Americans, and then you went to a carnival, you met a girl, and then you got. Then you got in a truck and you drove to this place. I was like, whoa, why are. Why are we doing this? We just saw it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I loved her character, though. I love that we met her tanning up there in that bathing suit. That must have been terrible for tan lines. And winter.

[June Diane Raphael]

And winter boots that came up mid calf.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What an unbelievable.

[June Diane Raphael]

I was like, what a strange tan line. That's.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Tan line. And then also the bathing suit, which had just, like, mesh cutouts and the contraption.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

There on that roof.

[Paul Scheer]

I like that.

[June Diane Raphael]

My question was very. Did you think her being laying out on the roof. Yeah, very Jack. Rare. Her being out on the roof. This is a real question. Do you feel like that was somehow an homage to her in Roadhouse where she. They laid out on the roof in road. This is not a real question, but that's. I was like, oh, I wonder if they're trying to make. Do a thing here. The one of the things that I loved was there's this moment where early when Mickey Rourke and Megan Fox escape the carnival and they're out in the desert at a gas station or something. I can't remember what, but she's off to the side and she's letting her wings out and she's kind of catching a draft.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I know, right?

[June Diane Raphael]

And it's this moment, it's all green screen, but she's kind of catching a draft and blah, blah, blah. And there's a little kid wandering around with a camera and taking pictures. And Mickey Rourke is like, hey, let me, let me, let me borrow that camera for a second. He takes a picture of Megan Fox and then half an hour later, Mickey Rourke is in a dark room. He's in a physical dark room developing that one picture. So he either stole that and smoking.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way around, a lot of liquid chemicals.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes, he either stole that kid's camera or the film. I don't know which. But it's. It is crazy that he's in a dark. How does he have access to a dark room?

[Paul Scheer]

And it's in 2011 where it's like very easy to print the picture quickly. Like, it's not.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, yeah, go to a CBS or Rite Aid. I mean, the crazy thing is I think he must have. I think he must have stolen the film.

[Paul Scheer]

I think he took the camera. He's not finding that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This fudgeing guy this way. Well, right after that, we have to watch a sex scene between the two of them. That was so fucking unacceptable.

[June Diane Raphael]

Holy shit.

[Paul Scheer]

I want to. I want to get into the sex scene. I just want to say one thing about that photo. When he does take the photo of her, she goes, if you like it, you'll delete it. Like, it's like, what?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Who is it?

[Unknown]

Where is this going?

[Paul Scheer]

This is not like. Like she doesn't know the plan. Like, and she's like, just, if you don't. If I don't like it. Like, I'm like. And meanwhile it's like, oh, she doesn't want people to see her, but yet she's in the carnival. But then she's also. Literally, there are six foot tall posters of her at the carnival. So it's like, yeah, why?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She just wanted photo.

[Paul Scheer]

What's happening? Okay, but yes, let's, I just wanted to talk about. And then yes, let's talk about the sex scene between a 23 year old and a 57 year old man.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This actually enraged me.

[June Diane Raphael]

This was chilly.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, I'm protesting. I want. This is, this is not okay. Yeah, no, this, this ain't okay.

[Paul Scheer]

And by the way, it's like I feel bad for her because I feel like everybody is like, I feel it's a bunch of older dudes who are just like, oh yeah. Oh God, yeah, she's a hot, she's so hot. Like it just feels like. And she's got to do all this kissing up on everybody.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's like it was so unacceptable.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, there's so, yeah, there's too much. And big open mouth kisses. Big like big enveloping hands and kisses.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I know. It's like the only thing I wanted for because I knew it was coming and I was like, all I want to see is like her head sort of turned to the side, you know, a tight shot and then his head kind of facing forward around her neck and just like humping her. That I could accept, like, okay, you don't have to look at him. Just lay there like a dinner.

[Paul Scheer]

I wanted the wings to cover everything.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

I wanted the wings to be up.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And just see and a little movement.

[June Diane Raphael]

By the way, that would have been awesome.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What we had to witness, what we had to say. And I'm sorry, this literally made me want to leave. I, I'm sorry. I wanted to leave the industry of film and television because I'm just like, show me an old wrinkly, saggy woman who gets to be on screen fucking a hot 23 year old man. Like, please. I, I, this is, this is not acceptable.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, I don't know why it grossed me out so much, but like they kind of show her plumage flying off because of the fucking like one feather just like flies off like Forrest Gump style. And it oddly.

[June Diane Raphael]

Are you kidding? I fucked the feathers right off.

[Paul Scheer]

And it lands in the front stoop of the hotel. I'm like, what? Oh.

[June Diane Raphael]

And the hotel owner finds it.

[Paul Scheer]

Hey, good job.

[June Diane Raphael]

And the hotel. Multiple people find single feathers and look at them like contemplatively like, huh, what must this be? It's a bird feather, asshole. Keep walking.

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[Paul Scheer]

What's his redemption? I mean, if this is like his redemption, right? Like, we know that Happy Bill Murray is a bad guy. Not only does, well, his wife cheats on him with Mickey work and he has her kid. That's what we understand.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Poor woman.

[June Diane Raphael]

We never meet her, right?

[Paul Scheer]

Never meet her. And so she's killed. And so the only thing that we know that's bad about Mickey Rourke is that he had an affair, which is not like, okay, like, I don't see, like, we need this redemption arc for him. Like, his redemption.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Don't forget about what happened with him and Annie Poole.

[Paul Scheer]

What happened with him and Annie Poole?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, Paul. Annie Poole.

[June Diane Raphael]

The story he tells us.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, I forgot about the story.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Hey, Nate and Annie Poole. That was the love of his life. Oh, I think this was like a post coital scene between the two of them and he.

[June Diane Raphael]

So you might have fast forwarded through it. I was doing a lot of 10 seconds ahead in places.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Annie Poole was the Love of his life. And she was totally clean, but she just wanted. And she was perfect. And he was deeply in love with her, but in order for her to spend time with him, she had to start getting high. And then that killed her.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, that, by the way, I'm glad that they revealed this ending. That was a setup because when he meets that girl, the tattooed girl in the bar.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Loved her tattoos.

[Paul Scheer]

Loved her tattoos.

[June Diane Raphael]

What a reveal. Great, great reveal.

[Paul Scheer]

Actually went and rewound that scene because.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I was like, wow, that's part of the movie. I'm sorry.

[Paul Scheer]

And let's get you all warmed up. Let's get you warmed up. And she likes. Shoots heroin into him.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's. I wish that had been at the beginning. I wish that scene had been at the beginning of the movie because then I would understand where this, why and how this guy has fallen.

[Paul Scheer]

It's also an interesting way to be like, oh, this all doesn't make sense because it's a. A hazy dream. I. Again, I don't. I don't know if anyone can answer this, but I. I don't know that heroin is like a fuck drug. Is it, like. Because she's like, oh, let's get you warmed up. Like, I would imagine you do heroin, you're not, like, you're not really in the mood to have sex.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, because it's better than having sex like people prefer. So I think. I. I don't. I think he was just like. He didn't want to do the heroin. He didn't really have a choice. He couldn't really say no.

[Paul Scheer]

Well. But she kept on saying, let's get you warmed up. Let's get you warmed up. As if it was like, this is like the. The first step of a night.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, I see what you're saying.

[June Diane Raphael]

I think. I think maybe. I don't know, maybe I'm. I'm doing work for the movie here. But there's a. There's a world in which it is not a sex scene. It is a heroin scene.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay.

[June Diane Raphael]

You know what I mean? Like, it's not about them. It's about them. It's about almost sexualizing. The. The act that is being consummated is shooting up.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Can I just say one thing, Paul?

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I couldn't understand why he's being presented to us, that the movie is presenting him as like, this crazy ladies man that every woman wants to.

[June Diane Raphael]

Until.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Until we saw the scene of him in the bar and watched him make that lemon move flirting and turn into.

[June Diane Raphael]

A little creature with a red Napkin over it.

[Paul Scheer]

I, first of all, didn't. I'm like, oh, he's gonna make a lemon disappear. I'm like. Or like, what. What is happening here? Like, I don't.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And she. Well, I guess we'll find out later that she was duping him. But she did seem into it. Now, do you think that that was written in the script or was that all day long?

[Paul Scheer]

That is a Mickey Rourke special. Because he is getting drunk at a bar, and normally you're in front of peanuts, he's in front of a bunch of lemons, as if he's making his own shots and cutting his own. For, like. Because he. Like, he's like, I know. I know how to impress a girl. Like. Like, I feel like this is a lot of Mickey Rourke's own moves.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

For those of you listening who haven't seen the mov, he takes a lemon, he puts it on the bar, and then he takes a red napkin, unfolds it. So it's kind of a very big square. He puts the napkin over the lemon, sort of puts his hand underneath, behind, and then rolls the lemon so it sort of looks like a little creature moving across the bar.

[June Diane Raphael]

And that alone wins him the hand of the beautiful tattooed woman. Like, she is so charmed by this.

[Paul Scheer]

I just want to say one more thing, June. The way that you described it there is 10 times more impressive than what it looks like on film. It looks as if, like, he's like, oh, can we do it again? Because I didn't get it. I didn't get that. I didn't get what I wanted.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He doesn't get it in the take they used. He messes up and then has to restart. That's the best footage they had of this parlor trip.

[June Diane Raphael]

And I feel like they did that. The director was like, hey, let's do one more, but let's maybe not do the napkin thing. And he was like, no, no, you got it. Let's move on.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, this is. By the way, this is the way that I feel like this movie was run a little bit. This director and writer felt like he really wanted to give Mickey Rourke, like, this amazing role. Mickey Rourke has come out and said so much negative stuff about this movie that is hilarious. But this is the one thing where it feels like he just bullied his way through most scenes, because this is a story that both men agree to, that Mickey kept on saying, you know, Kelly should be a stripper in the movie. And the director's like, no, no, no. She's just. This is his Wife, by the way. He's like, no, she's just a bar. The director's wife. No, no, she's just a bartender. Mickey's like, yeah, but like a bartender stripper. And he's like, no, just a bartender. And then he's like, she should take her clothes off in the movie and all right, yeah, we'll let her take a close off the movie letter. Like, it was like he just bullied this director to make his wife. Wow. Scantily clad. She's not naked, but scantily clad.

[June Diane Raphael]

I know I've told this story before, but I feel like it's. It makes sense in this context. Like, so I heard Aronofsky interviewed about the wrestler who was saying so much of his job every day was to somehow intercede with Mickey Rourke's, like, attempts to constantly have sunglasses or eyeglasses on his head. Sunglasses, specifically, so that Aronofsky would have them check Rourke's wardrobe, because he would hide sunglasses in his wardrobe and then pull them out in the middle of scenes and put them on, which would ruin the take. And he. And because Aronofsky, we need to be able to see your eyes. And he'd be like, no, no, no, no, no. My guy's hiding. My guy's hiding. You know, and it's like. But it is this bull. And so left unchecked, you get this.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is what.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, you know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

And. And then you also get this thing where he's wearing that coat. And that coat has become the biggest prop. Like, he's wearing, like, an overcoat over, like, a leather coat over, like a, you know, a little underwear shirt. And. And. And when he's talking to Megan Fox outside that trailer, he's like, just pulling. Pulling the coat together. It's so cold. It's so cold. He's always so cold. But then other times, he's not cold at all, but a lot of work. A lot of.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

A lot of coat work. Hat.

[June Diane Raphael]

All externals.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

Mickey Rourke loves external.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's when he's naked. It felt so crazy to me. I was like, put stuff. I need stuff back on you.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, more. Put some more chains on, please.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's really interesting because it's like you. You forget unless you Modern Mickey Rourke is really doing a lot of work to erase an incredible early career. Like, he was one of the next generation talents in that. In what you were saying. Yeah, that Pope of Greenwich Village era of. Of Mickey Rourke. And he's this electric, compelling, like such. Such a. Such a hyperkinetic Performer. And now it is so bizarre to watch, frankly. It's. I would. I'm obsessed with him as an actor because so much of what it is now seems like artifice and. And something that's not quite there. But in the scene where he sells his trumpet to Rory Cochran, it's a silent scene. Just music. It's. He, like, legitimately broke my heart when he is plaintively, clearly, like, not wanting to let go of this instrument. I thought that was an incredible, like, I don't know, 20 seconds of performance.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, I was so happy. I was like, yeah, you motherfucker. Like, you don't get the thing you love. Like, I couldn't. Jason. I was so thrilled.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, but he keeps the spit valve. Like, he keeps the little. Or the. The mouthpiece.

[June Diane Raphael]

No, he keeps the mouthpiece for the.

[Paul Scheer]

Rest of the movie is like, sucking on it. Like, it's a. Like it's. Oh, it's always in his mouth. Like, just like. Just like. Like a toothpick. And he does also have a toothpick in the movie as well. What's happening in the. In the laundromat when he meets his friend who's shoeless. Oh, yeah, I saw Footloose and Fancy Free, and I was like, is that what Footloose and Fancy Free is that you don't wear shoes? He's rich.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Thought he washing his socks.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay, and is this the laundromat where all the jazz musicians go? Is this, like the jazz laundry where.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They got it, but they got to do their laundry somewhere?

[Paul Scheer]

Jazz laundry. Jazz Laundry is a small place that I open.

[June Diane Raphael]

This is the kind of movie that when there is action, like, there's a certain point. Mickey Rourke gets beaten down.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, right.

[June Diane Raphael]

The bad guy's right hand man gives him a beat down, but we don't watch it. We watch one punch and then we listen to the rest of it as the camera drifts over and just films a newspaper being blown in the wind.

[Paul Scheer]

That is Mickey Rourke being like. It's the Vin Diesel, the rock thing. It's like, yes, you're not going to.

[June Diane Raphael]

I can't be beaten up.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yep. Because, you know, you know, Mickey Rourke, until recently, like, well into his 60s, was like, training and boxing in, like, boxing matches in Russia or something like something like that. Like, he was doing, like, boxing, like, internationally training and, like, doing heavy boxing matches.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I thought, if I may, that, like, post all the surgery that that ended, but I guess not.

[Paul Scheer]

In. In. In 2014.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay.

[Paul Scheer]

At the age of 62, three years after this movie he was boxing in Russia and he defeated Elliot Seymour in Moscow. Like, so he. Yeah, he was going long after this movie.

[June Diane Raphael]

What a character. What an absolute weird character.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, I guess he started, like. I'm looking at his IMDb. He was boxing at a young age, at 12 years old. He was a flyweight. And then he won the golden gloves in 71, the Florida Golden Gloves. And so that was like his. That was his start of his career. And he was trained by. Oh, this is great. Hell's Angel, Chuck Zito.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, Chuck Zito.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. And Freddie Roach also trained him. Wow.

[June Diane Raphael]

Wow.

[Paul Scheer]

And that's like the big reason why he's had so much plastic surgery is because he. His face got so fucked up in these fights.

[June Diane Raphael]

Huh?

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, geez. I'm looking. This is really a wild. Like his. His IMDb is wild.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, yeah, that's fine.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, but he's still kicking around. He. I mean, like. Like, that's the other thing too. It's like, I think he's still acting as if he was from the 80s. Like, he's still got that. Like, I'm the hottest guy.

[June Diane Raphael]

People are still giving him roles that have the gravitas of a star from the 80s.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like this.

[June Diane Raphael]

This movie is a. He is Jesus Christ in the movie. He's a Christ like character in this movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Except the problem is. Yeah, except the problem is he sells. He's trying to sell this woman off into prostitution, slash indentured servitude. Like, that's who. That's who this movie is about.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Dream or no dream. Like, if this is his best case scenario, if this is his Jacob Slaughter scenario, it's like, well, how are we supposed to root for this character in any way when that was his plan in no uncertain terms?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, well, his plan first. His plan first actually was to split the profit 60, 65, 35.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, right. He wanted. Yeah, he wanted in on the deal and. And the end and the end game. And I agree that, like, it looks like she's living a pretty good life with Bill Murray. They're watching movies. She seems not happy, but not, you.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Know, she's well off, happier, I think. Actually, no, I. I still maintain that she was happiest in the Airstream.

[June Diane Raphael]

I maintain that this is a character that these creators are not interested in investigating or revealing even remotely. She is a, like a muse kind of character. We're not. She is given. We're not given any access and Nor is anybody curious to her interiority. Right. She is just beautiful.

[Paul Scheer]

Let me pitch this Version of it. Happy was married to Megan Fox. He had an affair with her. Happy kills her and then goes to kill Mickey Rourke. And then Mickey Rourke has this dream of like kind of redeeming that. I mean, I guess maybe he's redeeming the death of his Annie Poole. But I feel like that's the thing. It's like. Cause Bill Murray brings her to a museum or they're having a museum event. What's that museum event? There's like, it's an angel theme. But then later on in the movie, like it seems like a day or two later it's revealed that Bill Murray also has a private club where rich guys go to look at a non naked Megan Fox. Just a like Venus de Milo just covering her. Yeah, just an oddity. So she is again an oddity where Bill Murray sits in the upper balconk block.

[June Diane Raphael]

A true balcony monster.

[Paul Scheer]

Watching this. I mean, what in the world?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, one of my favorite moments in the museum scene is when Bill Murray is being interviewed because there is some roaming press at the party. And the woman says to him, so. And, and my next question, what's going on with the two federal indictments?

[June Diane Raphael]

Tampering with racketeering and like. And then she details what they are.

[Paul Scheer]

But by the way, this is a thought I had and I just was looking at Bill Murray and I was like, do you think this is Bill Murray doing Kevin Spacey? Cause there was something about the way that he was acting that reminded me of Kevin Spacey. Like, I don't. Maybe it was the hair or the glasses.

[June Diane Raphael]

The hair was. The hairpiece was very spacey, fake, you know, seeming.

[Paul Scheer]

I just looked at that. And then the other thing that jumped out at me was when she's in her trailer living her good life in that airstream, she goes to get him. Like gin. Just two people just drinking straight gin.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Disgusting.

[June Diane Raphael]

Warm. He describes it as warm gin.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Disgusting.

[Paul Scheer]

And she grabs the bottle and it's the. The title on the bottle is Gordon Shumway. And I was like, gordon Shumway? Why did I.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's alf.

[Paul Scheer]

And that's what I. Yeah. And that was alf's name on melmac. Oh, and I don't know if that, like, I don't know if that's a set designer. Kudos to you. Gordon Shumway. Jin. Oh my God. That was great.

[June Diane Raphael]

This, this movie was true nonsense to watch. It really. It doesn't add up. It's. It's. It's one of those movies that. Because there's so. Because it's a now we know. A dreamlike piece of, like fictional storytelling inside the protagonist's brain. It makes sense that it makes no sense and it feels dreamlike.

[Paul Scheer]

But that's a cheat. It makes me angry. It's a cheat. It's like.

[June Diane Raphael]

But it is. I agree. Oh, agree. When you learn it makes no sense. Until the best version of these movies makes sense and then the reveal makes them make a different kind of sense, this movie makes no sense. Then it kind of makes sense, but is makes it worse.

[Paul Scheer]

It just kind of says all your issues, don't worry about them because it didn't make a difference anyway.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

I'll tell you, obviously we had opinions about this movie. There are people out there that had a different opinion, but not many. It is now time for second opinion.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yet this person recommends it. Tell me, what is the message? Maybe that art is subjective. I need a second opinion.

[Paul Scheer]

All right, So a lot of people don't even know this movie existed. And probably because it was.

[June Diane Raphael]

I didn't.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. It was only released in two theaters. It had its premiere at the Toronto Film Festival to great consternation. I don't know. Like, people were not happy with this movie. The director apparently re edited it and he goes, this is actually the movie I wanted to make. But it still didn't really. It. It really was he re edited into this? Yeah. I mean, yes, this is the. This is the thing. And you know, and I think that some of the reviews include things like perversely eccentric and inert, hard to take itself as seriously as the movie does. But there are people out there who liked it. You know, there are 200 reviews, 50% are five star reviews. And each one of them feel oddly the same way. They are telling me things but not showing me the word. Like. You'll see. Craig in 2014 wrote this film, Passion Play is different. You could call it something like a film noir, if you're into that terminology, but it doesn't just fit into those boxes. It goes beyond them. You have a big gamut of human experience. Hopelessness, hope, unfeeling caring, disrespect for others, heeding others, and what they ask for. Love, friendship, fear, bravery, freedom, dependence, escape, capture, happiness, despair. The emotional interdependence of these three main characters, Roark's desperate musician, Fox's captive bird woman, and Murray's implacable gangster makes for an unholy triangle. Plus, to describe them in the ways that they are, risk limiting how they portray them through the story. What plenty to watch, process and understand. Five stars glued to the screen. So good.

[June Diane Raphael]

Wow. I mean, to have had that experience watching this. Hey, pretty. I mean, wow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I. I am realizing I just saw that the tagline is love is stronger than death. And I am. Now I'm going back to what you're saying, Paul, about. About Megan Fox, about Lil Luster Standing Room. And maybe she is. Maybe Lily Luster is Annie Pool. Because the other thing that I wanted to mention is when the Annie Pool story is coming out, Megan Fox is. Is crying.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, it's a sad story. He is telling her about how he killed his true love, I guess.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But it.

[June Diane Raphael]

I think the question you're trying to ask is in the movie's logic, is he working out the Annie Pool? Death, regret inside of. Now his dying. Is he trying to kind of exorcise or redeem his own mind by saving someone?

[Paul Scheer]

By.

[June Diane Raphael]

By offsetting that. This. This thing that he thinks.

[Paul Scheer]

But he also, like, he saves somebody, puts them in danger, saves them again. Like, it's like he's responsible for. I mean, I guess at the end she's free, so it all works out. But I am still. I don't know.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, they fly off together to heaven. They appear to fly to heaven together.

[Paul Scheer]

Because that's the resurrection.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. So that. So I think. I think they definitely fly off together to heaven. And I guess because knowing she's. That Annie Poole's already dead.

[Paul Scheer]

So she's dead too.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That. That maybe Annie Poole is in. In this. Jacob Cider Snares is an angel. And. Yeah. That this whole thing is sort of reconciling his part.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. He's trying to make things. Make something right. You know, I did wrong in my past. Now's my chance to do something right.

[Paul Scheer]

Even though I'm gonna do something wrong.

[June Diane Raphael]

Too late.

[Paul Scheer]

Before I do the right thing.

[June Diane Raphael]

It doesn't matter. Too late. You died already. And none of these people are real. This is just your mind trying to convince you you're a good person as you die now.

[Paul Scheer]

John Knight also gave it five stars. Also in 2014. Says an impressive list of movie heavyweights carry through a singular tale that could or could not be real. The movie moves through the underbelly of America and a broad span of the human condition. Yeah, I mean. And emotions. Nice music. With a brief appearance by US Legend Salman Burke and tunes from legendary Alan Toussaint and Aaron Neville. Clip joints. Indigenous Americans, freaks, cheap motels. Big horizons and long roads. Shining night skies. Wrap around the story of desire, jealousy, owning, sharing, tricking and taking one's chance Gangsters, classy dames, tortured artists, all weave into the careful tracing of feelings and life's challenges. An impressive list of movie heavyweights. Five stars. I mean that people are reading a lot into it. Meanwhile, Alejandro just says, I like this movie a lot because it has drama and action. It's a great movie to watch. It has good stars too. 5 stars. I recommend this to a friend to buy. They're gonna like it too.

[June Diane Raphael]

Hey, if you've got at least two Murray brothers in your movie, I'm gonna five stars it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And Brian Del Murray is great. He's always great.

[Paul Scheer]

Got back on Friday. It is Friday.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. In a completely black space. There's not. They're not in a location, they're not in a. On a set. It is a black voice.

[Paul Scheer]

They have a soundstage. This movie had a soundstage with a green screen. They shot a majority of the stuff low. This is a low budge thing all across. I mean, wow, wow, wow. And as Mickey Rourke said about this film, it's a terrible movie. But you know, in your career and all the movies you make, you're going to make a dozen of terrible ones. It's going to get not wide release because it's not very good. And this was made by his good friend of 15 years.

[June Diane Raphael]

So really, it really is. I, I can't. If you are listening to this and you haven't watched the movie and I'm not saying watch the movie, I mean go ahead and watch the movie. It's absolutely bananas. But check it out a little bit because I mean it when I say this movie feels like it's from a different time.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

It feels like an indie movie from the 90s or even the 80s at times.

[Paul Scheer]

It felt to me like, and I don't mean this in the sexual way, but like a Cinemax movie where it's like, it really is this like Red Shoe Diaries esque. It's very slow. It's. It's like we're just watching a person walk down a street for a long time.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh yeah, I had it. I had in my calendar, Passion Play. And then in parentheses, 2010. And so I kept on as a mod in the movie. I kept on freaking out like, if this can't be, this can't be right. This was the movie I'm looking for. Was made in 2010. This isn't. This couldn't possibly be it.

[June Diane Raphael]

I felt the same June. So much so that I looked it up to see, oh, was it shot in the 90s? Shelved. And it was only released in 2000. Like, it made so little sense to me. Paul, like, will you tell us what are, like, movies that came out in 2010?

[Paul Scheer]

That's a great question. All right, so 2010, Barbie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What? I mean.

[June Diane Raphael]

Avatar.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. The big movies of 2010 and looking at it right here are, let's see, 127 Hours. Inception, the town.

[June Diane Raphael]

This came out the same year as Inception.

[Paul Scheer]

This is, you know, the other guys. MacGruber, you know, get him to the Greek hot tub time machine. Cyrus, you know, it's like this is.

[June Diane Raphael]

These movies all feel like modern movies, contemporary movies, even though they're now 15 years old or whatever, but nonetheless, this, the movie we watched, feels like it's 30 years old. Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

The Social Network. I mean, to even think that this movie came out in the time when there was a. So when there was Facebook is crazy. Scott Pilgrim and the Versus the World Kick ass.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, that's the thing is nobody has a phone in this movie. Nobody has a cell phone in this movie. There's no computers. There's no technology.

[Paul Scheer]

One of the things that everybody says, like, all the people involved, Mickey Rourke and the director and writer, they had no idea who Megan Fox was. Nobody had seen Transformers. No one even knew that she was an actress. So it does seem like they were kind of out of it. And it does feel like this movie was. It was written as a 50s movie about, like, a detective and a dame, and they think they've kind of. They didn't change much.

[June Diane Raphael]

I see. Okay, that makes more sense then it was. It was a period piece.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, here's what I would argue. If you're going to change it from a period piece, you got to. You got to. You got to go through that whole script and just kind of update all this.

[June Diane Raphael]

Wow.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, so I guess the question is, would you recommend watching it? And I'm kind of with you in saying, like, it is worth watching it because it is uniquely different than anything that I've seen.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's so weird.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Gun for me is. It all was worth it to see her swooping, fly in and pick up Nikki work. I. I truly.

[June Diane Raphael]

And that's the end. That is. Those are the last images.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I was so delighted by that. I was so taken with it. I was. I thought it was so hilarious. And I thought it was so humiliating for him that it. It for me because I found this entire movie and Megan Fox being 23 and Mickey Rourke being 200 years old, like to be so.

[June Diane Raphael]

Wait, how old did you say he was?

[Paul Scheer]

I believe it was 50. 54 to 23 or. No, 57 to 23.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay, I just want to be clear. Mickey Rourke in This movie is 57. I am currently 52. I. I just. I just. That to me, I'm saying that, and it's funny, but it is. I will hang up this Zoom meeting soon and I will have a crisis.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, because Jason, first of all, I don't know that I have to be honest. I don't know if I believe he's 57 in this movie. Like, I just don't know. I think he's very hard, and I think he might have shaved a number like, a decade off of his age. But I had so much trouble with this movie. I was so deeply, deeply disturbed by what I was watching between the two of them. That. That seeing her fly with him like that, I needed it, and it put me at ease. Obviously, I simply didn't understand the ending. And I thought, oh, well, that's strange that the henchman's still there, but, you know, a couple days later, his body doesn't seem to have been picked over by vultures or anything. But.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay, here's what I will say about that flyover scene. At the end. It is this, like, she picks him up, she's flying, and I think we're supposed to be transported to this amazing world where you're like, now they're in the clouds. It's her dream. She's always wanted to fly. She's never been able to fly. And the landscape is so ugly. It's desert, but it's not daylight. It's like dusk in the desert. So it's dark, like, nothing pops. It looks like it's like, oh, if I was a bird, it's not that good.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sounds like a dusk in the desert could be beautiful. But it wasn't.

[June Diane Raphael]

It wasn't. There's nothing cinematic in the movie. You know, it's. Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, heavens no.

[June Diane Raphael]

But it really is. Like, the movie was really interested in telling a. A good story. As they're flying over Mickey Rourke's dead body in the desert, she's got him hooked under his armpits, flying him around. And he sees it and he's like, oh, now I get it. I wish she had dropped him at that moment, dropped him into his body. And then we follow her as she flies away to a better life. Like, let she should be. I want. I don't want. I don't want to know the end of Mickey Rourke's story. I want. I'm rooting for Megan Fox to Get away from everybody in this.

[Paul Scheer]

She. I want her to. She should have dropped him and gone to heaven herself. But also, I'm like, so the first movie moment that she's free, I know it's in his head, but the first moment she's free, she's now dead, too. Good ending. I mean, that's sad to me. She's finally free and dead.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, she's dead because she doesn't exist.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay, yeah, she's not dead. She's just. She just is. Doesn't. She's just a figment of his imagination.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So when he dies, it's lights out, really, for everyone, but mainly for her.

[Paul Scheer]

I am utterly stunned. And every now and then, it's a jaw dropper.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, it's. It's interesting because when you see the end of the movie, you realize why it's so bad. It's because the person who's written the terrible movie you just watched was the Mickey Rourke character.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, boy. All right, well, this. So, I mean, I guess we've decided it's worth it for the final scene, which I'm sure you could watch online. And I mean. Wow.

[June Diane Raphael]

Wow, wow, wow. Yeah, it reminded me of what was the Ryan O'Neill movie we watched where he does. He tells, like, a monologue in the ocean or something like that. It has that kind of an amateurs, an amateur vibe, you know?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. I mean, listen, it's. Honestly, it's an amateur vibe, but with big stars, so it's like. It's.

[June Diane Raphael]

Some of whom are doing great work.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And so it is something to see. And I will say I was absolutely stunned that I'd never heard of this. Didn't know anything about that. I mean, it's really. There's a lot of work to be done.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, this is. I'm gonna keep on saying it's a dad core movie. It's like a dad going, like, I could do this. I got this. I'm a fan of movies. I'm gonna write like, dad, you've retired. He's like, I'm writing a movie. I'm gonna write a movie about a beautiful angel. Jazz. All the things that Dad's like, yeah, Jazz. He finds a carnival. They drink hot gin.

[June Diane Raphael]

He rescues an angel.

[Paul Scheer]

This woman loves me and kisses me up all over my body. I fuck her wings off. You know, I save her from the plastic surgeon. Like, yeah, it's like. It's.

[June Diane Raphael]

She's 23. I'm an old rump roast.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, my gosh. All right, well, I mean, I think We've done it. And wow, wow, wow. Avril picked another banger.

[June Diane Raphael]

Incredible.

[Paul Scheer]

Another banger.

[June Diane Raphael]

And, like, June. I'd never heard of it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'd never heard of it. And I really want to, like, what do I want to look up is that woman with the tattoos? I'm so taken with those tattoos.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, yeah, her tattoos were that. And that's a vision. So that, to me, was visually interesting. I was like, oh, this person. There's there the world of tattoo, lady junkie, jazz musician, scuzzy kind of motel life. I'm like, okay, what's this? But it's only told in that 30 seconds of the. Of the film. You know, that's what I'm saying.

[Paul Scheer]

It. It feels like it's of a movie of a different time.

[June Diane Raphael]

What's very funny is that we're saying it feels like it's from a different time. And I'm sure there are people being like, yeah, 15 years ago.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I know. That is. That's.

[June Diane Raphael]

That is a different time.

[Paul Scheer]

And with that, we say we bid you adieu. All right, Jason, did you have anything you want to promote, tell anybody about?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, we're going on tour in.

[Paul Scheer]

That's right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yeah, Great. So let's definitely talk about that.

[Paul Scheer]

End of March, early April, we're going to be in Los Angeles. We're going to be in Austin. We're going to be in Boise. The Tree Fort Music Festival. Here's the thing. You can buy a ticket individually. You don't have to just buy a ticket to the music festival. So there's two ways you can go. If you have a ticket for the festival, great. If you don't, you could buy a ticket separately. And then. Jason, where are we going after that? Do you remember from last night? San Francisco.

[June Diane Raphael]

Sorry, it is Austin. It's Austin, Denver, Boise, Seattle, San Francisco, Portland.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

And then LA is now in the beginning, not the end. So I guess technically it's la, Austin, Denver, Boise, Seattle, San Francisco, Portland.

[Paul Scheer]

And then you go to hdtgm.com to get your tickets and information. We'll release the movies shortly. The movies for LA are released because we move those shows. All right, so come check us out on the road.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. I'm getting very excited about it.

[Paul Scheer]

Me, too.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I cannot wait.

[June Diane Raphael]

Cannot wait. They've been clamoring for us in Boise, and, baby, we coming. We're coming to town.

[Paul Scheer]

And I gotta tell you, Denver, we've owed you a show for a very long time. And they showed up immediately. Day one, it was like, we're almost Sold out because of Denver.

[June Diane Raphael]

Cannot wait.

[Paul Scheer]

Also, make sure you check out Dark Web, a brand new series starring Rob Hubel and me. Every week go to watchthedarkweb.com it is a super fun show where we dig deep into the Internet and find weird things like Sizzler commercials and urine looping and paintball self defense. We put it all together in a free little package for you on YouTube every single week. So check out watchthedarkweb.com and then you'll get to the YouTube page and all that. Also, Jason is on Invincible. That's right. Invincible is back on Amazon Prime. It is so good. He is fantastic in it. You're not going to want to miss it at all. People, do you like comedy? Are you going to be in the LA area? Well, guess what, on February 27th Largo is going to be hosting Dinosaur Jason and I will be there. Maybe even Jack McBrier, maybe even Rob Riggle. It is a cavalcade of who's who of some of the funniest people. I love doing that show. So come check us out this month at Largo. A big thank you to our producer, Cody Fisher, Molly Reynolds. A big goodbye to one of our producers, Matt Apodaca who was with us for a short period of time. But we wish him so well. I mean, and we mean that from the bottom of our heart. Not in a negative like oh, we wish him well. Good luck kid. No, we love Matt. He is off to another company and he is going to kill it. Also a big giant thank you to Avril Halley, our movie picking producer. She found a gem in this one. You can follow her online at Movie Bitches. You can check out all of the how did this get made? [e-mail] stores hdtgm. People, the most important part now is you. If you have something you want to share, something that you feel like we might have missed in Passionplate, something that we didn't know, give us a call at 619-PaulAsk619, Paul ask to leave a comment or a question. You can also just leave it on our discord at Discord GG hdtgm and next week we will turn the spotlight on you. And I can only imagine what you're gonna have to say about this show. All right, that brings us to the end of the episode. Bye for now. See you next foreign.

[Katie Nolan]

I'm Katie Nolan and I have a new podcast called Casuals. It's a podcast for people who like sports a normal amount. Casuals is a Twice a week, hang with me and my friends from across comedy, sports and entertainment where we talk about all the funny, weird, interesting stuff happening in and around the world of sports. So whether you're a die hard fan or just vaguely sports curious, Casuals is the pug. You can find casuals on the SiriusXM app, Pandora or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode. Give it a try. What's the worst that could happen?

[Paul Scheer]

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