Reindeer Games w/ Howard Kremer (HDTGM Matinee)

Summary

How Did This Get Made? — "Reindeer Games" w/ Howard Kremer (HDTGM Matinee)

Date: December 2, 2025
Hosts: Paul Scheer, June Diane Raphael, Jason Mantzoukas
Guest: Howard Kremer (with additional participation from Ben Schwartz)

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Overview: A Holiday Heist Gone Hilariously Wrong

This festive episode of HDTGM dives into the 2000 action "classic" Reindeer Games—an ill-fated heist flick starring Ben Affleck, Charlize Theron, and Gary Sinise, and directed by John Frankenheimer in his last film. In dubious holiday spirit, the panel (with guest Howard Kremer) gleefully unpacks the movie's baffling plot twists, cringey romance, questionable casting, and abundance of wet kisses and Santa suits—all while pondering: How did this get made and who was this for?

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Release Date Blunders and Holiday Movie Irony

• The film missed the mark as a Christmas movie: Released in late February, months past the holiday season it’s supposedly anchored to.
  • Jason Mantzoukas [03:22]: "It came out February 25th. It missed the Christmas mark."

2. John Frankenheimer’s Legacy: A Rough Farewell

• Panelists lament Frankenheimer's reputable career coming to an end with Reindeer Games, after classics like The Manchurian Candidate.
  • Jason Mantzoukas [02:53]: “He directed some great movies in the past ... and it all ended with this Ben Affleck movie.”
• Charlize Theron's well-publicized regret about the film is brought up for comic effect.
  • Jason Mantzoukas [35:22]: "Charlize Theron publicly came out and said, this is a very, very bad mov. ... I only did it because John Frankenheimer did it..."

3. Graphic Sex and Weird Kissing

• The panel fixates on the movie’s bizarre and weirdly explicit sex scenes—especially between Ben Affleck and Charlize Theron—and the abundance of what they deem "gross" open-mouthed kissing.
  • June Diane Raphael [04:32]: "You don't normally see the part of the man that connects from the woman waist to the upper butt cheek. It's like a weird area."
  • Ben Schwartz [05:09]: "They fuck so much that they fall asleep on the floor next to the bed. ... The only thing in this room is a bed."
  • June Diane Raphael [05:49]: "A lot of open-mouthed kissing. That's very disgusting. ... Super wet, wide kisses that are not appealing."

4. The Absurd, Convoluted Plot

• The hosts break down the Rube Goldberg heist plot, featuring identity swaps, fake deaths, and double/triple crosses.
  • Howard Kremer [10:21]: “This plan could get. It had so many moving parts.”
  • Ben Schwartz [29:56]: “Double double cross. Nick, the prisoner who was Ben Affleck's best friend in prison is not dead. ... And the whole thing has been a con on Ben Affleck.”

Major Plot Confusion:

• Multiple rounds of trying (and failing) to keep track of who knew what, when, and why.
  • June Diane Raphael [33:01]: "Guys. I'm completely caught up in a reindeer game right now. I've really lost."
  • Howard Kremer [33:09]: "Even the screenwriters didn't bother to figure this out."

5. "Rudy" and the Rudolph Parallels

• Epiphany strikes as the group realizes the not-so-subtle Christmas symbolism: Ben Affleck’s character is named Rudy and his cellmate is Nick, paralleling Rudolph and St. Nick.
  • Jason Mantzoukas [17:00]: “Well, his name is Rudy.”
  • June Diane Raphael [17:31]: “Nick. Nick.”
  • Ben Schwartz [17:16]: “That's the amazing. Holy shit. My mind just imploded.”

6. Tone and Genre Mash-Ups Gone Awry

• Uneasy tonal shifts from grim violence to slapstick, and nonsensical comic relief moments (ordering pay-per-view and minibar blows through $1,200; [50:05]).
  • Howard Kremer [49:57]: "Another egregious tone shift where you're scared for this guy's life, and then all of a sudden, he's just dicking around and... toothless villains."

7. The Santa Heist and Other Visual Hilarity

• The gang rips into the image of multiple armed Santas robbing a nowhere casino on the least busy night of the year.
  • Howard Kremer [50:56]: "A closet full of neatly hung Santa suits."
  • Jason Mantzoukas [52:13]: "The plan is walk in and shoot the police. Guess who you don't need for that? Ben Affleck."
• The squad notes that dressing Ben up as a cowboy to “conceal his identity” felt more Foghorn Leghorn than tactical genius.
  • Jason Mantzoukas [34:27]: "Like a comical cowboy outfit. Like, almost like if Foghorn Leghorn had formal wear..."

8. Action Logics and Indestructible Affleck

• Absurd violence with no real consequences; Affleck "recovers so easily from brutal beatings" ([14:06]) and escapes danger despite constant, improbable peril.

9. Rip-Roaring Memorable Quotes & Banter

• The episode is full of instantly quotable, deeply silly banter—where the confusion over plot and character motivations often becomes the bit itself.
• Ben Schwartz [33:35]: "Now, that was amazing."
• Howard Kremer [59:49]: "He dispatches Charlize Theron. She's on the hood of the car and she goes over the cliff. And then now it's time to get rid of the real villain, her brother. And it's just the same exact thing. Just sends him over the cliff. Same two deaths right in a row."
• June Diane Raphael [58:17]: "A lot of casino workers were killed."

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Notable Quotes (w/ Timestamps)

• On missing the holiday release:
  Jason Mantzoukas [03:22]: “It came out February 25th. It missed the Christmas mark.”

• On sex scenes:
  June Diane Raphael [04:32]: “You don't normally see the part of the man that connects from the woman waist to the upper butt cheek... It was very weird, that sex scene.”

• On embarrassing TV-inspired attempts at French kissing:
  Jason Mantzoukas [06:30]: “I tried to French kiss my mom when I saw the Love Boat one time.”

• On the baffling heist plan:
  Ben Schwartz [10:28]: "At any point something could have gone wrong. ... It's impossible to have been executed."

• On the “Reindeer Games” title:
  June Diane Raphael [15:41]: “I've never heard the expression reindeer games.”

• On Rudy/Rudolph/Nick/Saint Nicholas parallels epiphany:
  Jason Mantzoukas [17:13]: “Rudy just, this got interesting.”

• On comic violence:
  Jason Mantzoukas [54:42]: “Shoots some quick rum at him and lights this guy on fire. In the most Hollywood I’m-on-fire... Like, special effects are amazing.”

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Important Segments (w/ Timestamps)

• Introduction & Holiday Movie Setup: [01:38–03:53]
• Discussion of Frankenheimer’s Directorial Career: [03:02–03:22]
• Sex Scene & Romance Analysis: [04:08–07:25]
• Prison Break-Down (“Monsters in the Gelatin”): [09:10–10:47]
• Plot Confusion, Twists Galore (“You guys, wait… I’m in a reindeer game now”): [29:55–33:35]
• Symbolism Revelation (“Rudy” ≈ Rudolph, “Nick” ≈ St. Nick): [16:44–17:39]
• Comic Relief Moments—Minibar, Pay Per View: [49:46–50:17]
• Heist Preparation—Santa Suits Reveal: [50:47–51:27]
• Casino Robbery Execution: [52:22–53:13]
• Ridiculous Deaths & The Santa Suit Problem: [55:44–57:16]
• Final Scene, "Robin Hood" Ending: [57:28–58:41]
• Second Opinions—Five Star Amazon Reviews: [61:22–64:22]

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Memorable Moments & Running Jokes

• The hosts' ongoing struggle to keep track of plot twists.
• Extended riffing on the awkward, overly wet on-screen kissing.
• The sudden realization that character names are not-so-subtle Christmas references.
• Howard Kremer noting repetitive deaths-by-cliff ("same two deaths right in a row" [59:56]).
• The debate over whether Charlize Theron's 50% store discount is even plausible.
• The future-past shock of Ashton Kutcher’s silent cameo.
• Running joke about panelists getting "caught up in a reindeer game" whenever the plot gets too convoluted.

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Takeaway: Did They Recommend Watching It?

Unanimous consensus: Watch only for absurdity—fast forward liberally, or just listen to the podcast instead.

• Jason Mantzoukas [70:34]: “I wouldn't think it's a necessity to see it. I think you could pass on it. I think if you want to watch that Icefall scene is pretty good. And maybe the end is pretty good too.”
• Ben Schwartz [70:43]: “Yeah, you can watch. This is a watch while fast forwarding.”

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Final Thoughts

Reindeer Games is dissected as a holiday heist movie that utterly misses on tone, timing, believability, and basic coherence—making it prime fodder for comedic discussion. The hosts embrace the chaos, turning plot confusion and cinematic missteps into a rollicking, laugh-out-loud breakdown perfectly tailored to fans of bad movies and schadenfreude-laced holiday cheer.

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For more hilariously bad cinema recaps, check out new episodes of HDTGM every Friday.

Transcript

[Paul Scheer]

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[Paul Scheer]

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[Jason Mantzoukas]

Ben Affleck. Boobies, cowboy costumes and a cameo by Ashton Kutcher. We saw Reindeer Games, so you know what that means. Now it's time for how to Disconnect. We're gonna have a good time celebrating.

[June Diane Raphael]

Failure, not just be a hater.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Cause you know you wonder how did this remain? Let's war in the mediocrity of subparrat Perhaps we'll find the answer to the question how did this get made? Hello people of Earth, and welcome to our very special Christmas Day edition of how did this get Made? Happy holidays. I am Paul Scheer, joined as always by Jason Mantzoukas. What's happening and June Diane Rayfield.

[Paul Scheer]

How are you, June?

[June Diane Raphael]

Good, how are you, Paul?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Very good. Today we have a very special guest. You know him from the wildly successful, the fantastically funny who charted Howard Kramer. Please welcome Howard to the show.

[Howard Kremer]

Hey guys, how are you?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is our technically this is our Christmas episode. So we are very Excited to bring you, man. What a treat. Reindeer Games, the last John Frankenheimer movie, by the way.

[Ben Schwartz]

Not a treat. Not a treat.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is a perfect Christmas movie for anyone.

[June Diane Raphael]

Did this come out around the holidays?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, I'm sure of it, yeah. John Frankenheimer. Just to give you an idea of what this guy directed. Directed some great movies in the past.

[Ben Schwartz]

French Connection, right?

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Iceman Cometh, Grand Prix, Manchurian Candidate, Seven Days in May. And it all ended with this Ben Affleck movie with Charlize Theron, Gary Sinise, Ashton Kutcher and Ashton Kutcher. Oh, I forgot about Ashton Kutcher.

[Howard Kremer]

Oh, and Gary Sinise's hair.

[Ben Schwartz]

And Donald Logue.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Donald Logue. Oh, guys, by the way, it came out February 25th. It missed the Christmas mark. So that means that this movie was. Normally they dump a movie like this at Christmas time and be like, oh, just suck it up. We'll get Christmas money. No, they released it two months after. This is almost in March. You release a Christmas money.

[Ben Schwartz]

That's appalling.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This movie, it was done clearly by December.

[Ben Schwartz]

This movie sucked. This movie was awful. I hated watching this. This movie is everything that's bad about the movies that we watched. To me, I was, like, freaking out. I was so angry at how bad the movie was. I had.

[Paul Scheer]

I had.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Look, I had some issues with it, but, you know, look, I'm a fan of twists and turns and I love some sexy acting. The first thing that comes to my mind about this movie is the sex scene that is pretty. Like, Charlize Theron and Ben Affleck have this, like, sex scene that is a little, like, graphic.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

In the sense of, like, what you're seeing. Like, you don't normally see the part of the man that connects from the woman waist to the upper butt cheek. It's like a weird area.

[June Diane Raphael]

Minotaur looking.

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You don't really.

[Ben Schwartz]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Miniature looking.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes, because there was a shot of him. You know what I'm talking about. You're describing it where you couldn't see his legs, but you did see sort of right above his ass. And it's like. Didn't look like a full human.

[Ben Schwartz]

It was Minotaur.

[June Diane Raphael]

He looked like the minotaur. It was very weird, that sex scene.

[Ben Schwartz]

Cause I was. I fully was like, oh, they're gonna have sex now. All right. Whoa. And listen, I'm not gonna complain. Cause it was sexy. But then I had a real problem with. And maybe I'm just not having sex correctly, but does anybody in the room have so much sex in a hotel room or wherever that you're on the bed, you're off the bed, you're fucking on the floor and then you fall asleep on the floor.

[June Diane Raphael]

I just get up and like, that's what they do.

[Ben Schwartz]

They fuck so much that they fall as on the floor next to the bed. I was like, there is a bed right there. The only thing in this room is a bed.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It happened in Twilight too. They fuck so hard they fall asleep on the floor. They are exhausted. They are too exhausted.

[June Diane Raphael]

There's also in this movie, a lot of open mouthed kissing. That's very disgusting. It's like super wet kisses. Super wet, wide kisses that are not appealing. Yeah, it's like just two wide mouths.

[Ben Schwartz]

Going at each other. I mean, we'll get into a spoilers section, but there is a Gary Sinise and I won't say who the woman is he's kissing. Kiss that. I was like, what the fuck is this? It's just nobody kisses like that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's like kids who've seen their parents kiss trying to kiss, like, ah, open mouth. Right. That's how we do it a lot.

[Ben Schwartz]

Is that what happened to you?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I tried to French kiss my mom when I saw the Love Boat one time.

[Ben Schwartz]

No.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Ben Schwartz]

No.

[June Diane Raphael]

She got really freaked out.

[Howard Kremer]

I thought that was it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I thought that's how you kill a kid.

[Howard Kremer]

That's how adults do it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like I saw it on TV and.

[Paul Scheer]

I was like, oh.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I've been like. My mom gave me a kiss, like to go to bed one time and.

[Howard Kremer]

I was like, ah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

My mom was like, whoa, whoa, what are you doing? She caught me way before I got close, but that's huge.

[Ben Schwartz]

Hey, man. This is a pretty startling revelation, guys.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Let's get into it.

[Ben Schwartz]

I didn't know you had this whole French kissing your mom thing going on.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, man.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I tried to kiss my mom like Gary Sinise.

[Ben Schwartz]

I gave her the full blown. Sinise also.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, I guess this is. I mean, this is a dumb thing to like, but, you know, Ben Affleck and Charlize Theron, both very attractive people. And I know movies are about attractive people and stuff, but I couldn't get a read on, like, are these supposed to be ugly people or are they supposed to be like really attractive people?

[June Diane Raphael]

Because a big part of the movie is that she's set up. We'll find out what her real intentions are later. But she's set up as a woman who's writing letters to prisoners and she writes.

[Howard Kremer]

She surely is their own and she.

[June Diane Raphael]

Surely is their own. And so. And we learn a little bit more about her that she's in this small town, tough go of it.

[Ben Schwartz]

If she does know she's pretty.

[June Diane Raphael]

Coastal city.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She does show she's pretty.

[Ben Schwartz]

She does know she's pretty.

[June Diane Raphael]

Super model beautiful. I mean she is so stunning.

[Ben Schwartz]

But that's what the thing is. He says to her, why is such a good looking girl like you doing this shit? Is this what you do remember when they've woken up from their slumber on the floor?

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah.

[Ben Schwartz]

He says, is this what you do you. Why are you so beautiful? And she goes, well, when you're as beautiful as I am, the guys that want you, they just want to get inside you. They want to get inside. They don't want to know about what. They don't want to know what's inside you. They just want to get inside you.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Fucking control.

[Ben Schwartz]

Alt.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Save. That is a good line. Save it.

[Ben Schwartz]

And Frankenheimer is in.

[Howard Kremer]

I'm not the guy was a line that was in the movie about 30 times.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh yeah. Basically this whole movie. Basically this whole movie is. Ben Affleck is in prison. He just steals cars. No big whoop. This prison mate is a guy who stabbed somebody who was harassing his girlfriend. And there is a fight that breaks out in jail. His prison partner is killed and he's.

[Ben Schwartz]

Jail sequence is 10 to 15 minutes long and is like an SNL sketch about jail. It is so stupid.

[June Diane Raphael]

Really upsetting too. Like I. I don't know, I watched it and I was. I felt sick. I felt really upset.

[Ben Schwartz]

What is really upsetting about it?

[June Diane Raphael]

Because the cockroaches were in the.

[Howard Kremer]

Oh, Isaac Hayes.

[June Diane Raphael]

Disgusting.

[Howard Kremer]

You know that when he says they're monsters.

[Ben Schwartz]

What was Isaac Hayes doing in this movie?

[Howard Kremer]

I wanna.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I wanna play the part that Harold just talked about. This is a. This is. This is my favorite postscene in the movie. Monsters in the gelatin. So they're eating some like gelatin.

[Ben Schwartz]

What's wrong with you?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Monsters? Just a roach.

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah, it's protein. It's good for you. Monsters in the gelatin.

[Ben Schwartz]

All right, calm down.

[Howard Kremer]

There are monsters in the gelatin. Monsters.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The skeleton.

[June Diane Raphael]

Look at this shit.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This starts.

[Howard Kremer]

Jesus.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So this starts a full on prison riot because apparently the cooks, they haven't just had one monster in the gelatin. One roach.

[Ben Schwartz]

Yeah, there.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I guess everyone has tons of roaches in their holiday Jell O. And this starts a huge prison riot.

[June Diane Raphael]

Think that it was an unusual day. Like this is just a strange thing now.

[Ben Schwartz]

How many Roaches must go on there.

[Howard Kremer]

I don't know, hundreds. Did they do it to start the riot?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's what I don't.

[June Diane Raphael]

Was it that elaborate of the plan?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, because at the end, when we.

[Howard Kremer]

Hear the doubting how elaborate this plan could get. Cause it had so many moving parts.

[Ben Schwartz]

And Ben Affleck at the end of the movie, Ian says, like, how did you think this would work? Because at any point something could have gone wrong. Because when you realize at the end of the movie what the plan has been all along, it's impossible to have been executed.

[Howard Kremer]

Impossible. It just requires so much acting, so much to go right.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, let's.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know what I feel like maybe it'll be. Let's just lay it out. Well, yes, it will probably be better and serve everybody better to understand how it plays out. So the monsters in gelatin happened. Ben Affleck's roommate, his prison roommate, gets killed. And now Ben is all bummed and he's like, well, I'm getting released from jail tomorrow. My prison partner was gonna get released too. He was gonna go meet up with Charlize Theron, maybe I'll take over for him. And he decides that he's gonna take over the life of his killed prison partner just to get laid by this hot girl.

[Ben Schwartz]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

Cause, well, I do think he had some feelings for her. Just reading the letters and stuff. Yeah, he don't think entirely about something.

[Ben Schwartz]

He definitely did have some sort of attachment.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You don. It was entirely about sex.

[June Diane Raphael]

Not entirely. No, I don't. No, I don't.

[Ben Schwartz]

And that's what they were counting on, was that it was more than just sex.

[Howard Kremer]

But he speaks his subtext so much in the movie that I just. Whatever he says he was thinking, I just go with that.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, that's the best part.

[Ben Schwartz]

He's even.

[Howard Kremer]

Cuz he's sitting on the bus thinking about whether or not he should try to go after Charlize Theron. And he's like, don't do it, Nick, don't do it. And he just.

[Ben Schwartz]

How about when he's in the. How about when they're in the department store and she brings over some clothes to him and then she walks away? And he looks at himself in the mirror in a crowded department store and he goes, just get through the holidays, Rudy. Just get through the holidays. Don't wreck her holidays.

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah, we'll tell her after.

[Ben Schwartz]

We'll tell her after. Like a fucking Superman villain. Like talking to himself in a mirror in a crowded store.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

By the way, this is the only movie That I can recall that employs both talking to himself in a mirror or a window. And also having voiceover narration, too.

[Howard Kremer]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Cause there is also a voiceover narrator. That's me. Like, it's a lot of, like, it's a lot of, like, the camera going around. So he's doing dual narration. Dual narration by one guy.

[Ben Schwartz]

Is anybody else really uncomfortable at how askew the close ups were?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yeah.

[Ben Schwartz]

Every close up they would cut to was just like, askew and a little off.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, we were talking about this because claustrophobia. We were saying before we started taping that, like this we had to take into effect when this movie, you know, in consideration when this movie was done. So it was like 2000 and Howard's saying that it's like Quentin Tarantino. People were trying to emulate Tarantino.

[Paul Scheer]

Right.

[Howard Kremer]

Tarantino had come along, and now these older guys are trying to put a little Tarantino in their game.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. And it felt like it was really trying. Like, the violence was a little bit more bloody. It was like trying to be this cool thing. So Ben Affleck takes over the life of his prison partner, and he forages this false relationship with Charlize Theron.

[Paul Scheer]

They're having a great.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They're having sex. They're falling asleep on the floor. They come home and Ben is attacked. Attacked by these burly thug dudes. I do want to talk about this. So he walks in the door and he gets immediately, like, hit in the gut with, like, a baseball bat. Goes down, and at which point another guy pops out of the closet. Why was that guy hiding in the closet?

[Ben Schwartz]

Wait, there were three guys hiding? There was one guy. There was a guy in the bathroom, and there was a guy in the closet.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

How many people needed, like, there was like, they. Again, when you understand the plan of this, not necessarily to have three guys who attack Ben.

[Ben Schwartz]

And he recovers so easily from brutal beatings. He is brutally beaten over and over in this movie and never has a mark on him, barely. He has a bloody nose in the diner. That's it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But I mean, I will say that he does limp around from getting those darts thrown into him. He gets that two darts. He has a tortured dart scene, which is also like a very Quentin Tarantino. Like, let's torture him. We'll do darts, man. We'll do darts. And he gets like two darts in him and he's like, oh, like limping around. Darts? Yeah, Pool darts.

[Ben Schwartz]

I mean, maybe they've gotten like a quarter of an inch in your body.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But that's maybe he's like, ugh. But so basically we find out that Shirley's has a bad brother. The bad brother wants him to rob a bank.

[Ben Schwartz]

Casino.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Casino. Sorry, casino. Because he worked in a casino, but he didn't actually work in a casino. The guy that he was prison mates worked at casino. And then he finds out, and he.

[Ben Schwartz]

Keeps trying to be like. When he realizes the guys want him because they think he's Nick, then they're gonna say, nick, help us rob the casino. He starts to say, I'm not Nick. It's not me. I'm impersonating him. And the guy's like, so you're impersonating a guy to fuck my sister. You think that's gonna get you out of this? And then he has to be like.

[Howard Kremer]

But what he said was, he goes, you're. You're acting like you. You did all this so you could get down her chimney.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Ben Schwartz]

There'S a lot of Christmasy wording. Yeah, that's right.

[Howard Kremer]

And he does the reindeer games line too. I read your letters. Don't play no convict games with me.

[June Diane Raphael]

You know what? I've never heard the expression reindeer games.

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah. Used just in the song.

[Paul Scheer]

That's it. Okay.

[June Diane Raphael]

So I kept on asking Paul Rudolph. I mean, I must have asked, like, every five minutes. Like, is reindeer games a thing? Like, are reindeer games?

[Ben Schwartz]

And what would Paul say?

[June Diane Raphael]

He said it's. Yes. You actually said yeah?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I said, yeah, it's from the song the Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, I said that, but I never heard this term or expression. Don't mess around at any time. That's what I'm trying to say.

[Ben Schwartz]

Well, I don't think it has any other meaning other than the song.

[June Diane Raphael]

There's a bunch of reindeers playing around. Like, there's no other context for it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You guys have.

[Ben Schwartz]

Wait, there aren't specific reindeer games.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You guys have egg on your face. Because I looked today, and on Urban Dictionary it came up. It goes, reindeer games refers to any fun activities which are enjoyed only by members of a clique, which is often purposefully made obvious to anyone existing outside of said clique in order to make them feel inadequate and left out.

[June Diane Raphael]

So actually, that would line up, though. Okay, so.

[Howard Kremer]

But Ben Affleck has no clique.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He has no clique. He's a man by himself.

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

By the way. So Ben Affleck.

[Ben Schwartz]

So he's Rudolph in this scenario?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, his name is Rudy.

[Ben Schwartz]

What is happening? Boom.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Nailed it. Look at the symbolism.

[Howard Kremer]

No, the joke's on us.

[June Diane Raphael]

The joke.

[Ben Schwartz]

What?

[Howard Kremer]

What? Just happened.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Rudy just this got interesting.

[Howard Kremer]

That's the reveal.

[Ben Schwartz]

That's the amazing. Holy shit. My mind just imploded. Are you kidding?

[Howard Kremer]

Rudolph. And do you know what his friend's name was?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh no.

[June Diane Raphael]

Nick. Nick.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Man. I wonder if we can see what was Gary Sinise's name. What's even come.

[Ben Schwartz]

Gabriel.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Gabriel. All right, so the angel Gabriel.

[June Diane Raphael]

Charlize Theron's name. Ashley. But her real name was Blitzen.

[Ben Schwartz]

Holy shit.

[Howard Kremer]

I wonder if were there that was.

[Ben Schwartz]

The how we just got there was unbelievable. I'm sure the audience was like 10 minutes ago like, hey assholes.

[Paul Scheer]

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[Howard Kremer]

Three.

[Paul Scheer]

And you can also show this show support by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

During the courtship of Ben and Charlize. When they're out, you know she's buying them stuff. Cause Ben kind of looks like a villain from Back to the Future one. Like that's how he's dressed. But she goes, I got a 50% off discount.

[Howard Kremer]

She was so into that discount. She was crazy about it. She started laughing maniacally. She's like 50% off.

[June Diane Raphael]

But that's a huge discount.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's a pretty good discount. You're giving away the store at 50% off.

[Howard Kremer]

She was like drunk with power that she was gonna go get bucks off that coat.

[June Diane Raphael]

Do you think she got that coat 50% off with her discount? That Silver coat. Yeah, that was a crazy scene where she was. Right after they got together and they were in the diner. She said, first he didn't. First he didn't say hello to her. And he didn't when he got out of the prison. And then he came back. And so then you cut to the diner, and he's like, yeah, I'm sorry. I just got freaked out. I thought maybe you wouldn't like the way I looked. And she's like, yeah, I mean, I thought the same. I thought maybe you'd, like, like, see my coat. I'm just.

[Howard Kremer]

She's Charlize Theron, and he just got out of prison for five years. Like, I didn't think you'd think I was.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

By the way, that coat was pretty ugly. And that's the only way they could ugly her up and make her look pedestrian is put her in ugly winter parkas.

[June Diane Raphael]

It wasn't even that ugly. I mean, it was a silver coat. It wasn't like they tried it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, they give her a couple things. Like, she wears a baseball cap and sunglasses. Like, that's how they ugly her.

[Ben Schwartz]

Like a winter hat on. And then in the diner, the winter hat is off. And her hair is perfectly styled, though. Can we talk about the second diner scene where he eats pecan pie?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yeah.

[Howard Kremer]

Oh, that was.

[Ben Schwartz]

I found that disgusting. I found the choice he made in eating that pecan pie to eat it as if he was, like, a starving person who'd never eaten food, but, like an animal consuming pie. Or I was like, is this a sexual thing? Like, what's going on with why he's eating this pie this way?

[Howard Kremer]

He started chewing up the scenery, literally. Yeah, he was just after that pie. But it was such a weird shift in tone because up until then, it's all kind of sinister.

[June Diane Raphael]

Ye.

[Howard Kremer]

And then all of a sudden, he starts saying, you know what? I want some hot chocolate. I want some goddamn hot chocolate. Some fucking pecan pies.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Here's the funny thing about that, too, is, like, by the time that moment happens, he has been out of jail, he has had sex, he has eaten with Charlize. Like, they have bought a Christmas tree together.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's like a lot of cookies together.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, I feel. Yeah, they got cookies.

[Ben Schwartz]

Oh, that was a great line.

[June Diane Raphael]

Lots of cookies.

[Ben Schwartz]

When the guy goes, this guy's got a shitload of cookies. Just a shitload of cookies.

[June Diane Raphael]

Why did they buy so many cookies?

[Ben Schwartz]

Who fucking knows? This movie is dumb. This movie is gross. There's just a lot of grossness to this movie. Why did he.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But why was he eating it like it was his last meal when he clearly could have had that pecan pie and chocolate, hot chocolate. He got plenty of time to get that right Anyway, but.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, that was supposed to be his first meal out of prison, but his.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

First meal out of prison was Charlize, right?

[Ben Schwartz]

Oh, shit.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Can we just play the. I just wanted just for you guys to hear the. This is the only other clip we have.

[Paul Scheer]

Here we go.

[Ben Schwartz]

Get him up here. No, no, fuck that. Nick doesn't do anything until Nick gets something for Nick.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Got it?

[Ben Schwartz]

I want some hot chocolate.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You wanna hear about some job of mine?

[Ben Schwartz]

I wanna see some goddamn hot chocolate and some pecan fuckin pie. Is he doing Bernie Mac? Is he doing a Bernie Mac impression? Leave it again.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I feel like that was a cra. I mean, you're right. That's why the movie goes. At that point, the movie's like, all right, now we're on this whole different track.

[Howard Kremer]

It's like a fun romp now.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Because basically what we have not told you is Gary Sinise is Charlize's brother. And he's a robber or a wannabe robber. And they are using Ben's knowledge, but not really his knowledge. Cause his former. The person he's impersonating's knowledge on how to rob a casino. So he's being pulled into a casino heist. He is just a car guy. He just steals cars. So now he's told them numerous times, guys, listen, I'm not this guy. They refuse to listen to that. They keep on going, nah, nah, you're the guy. You're the guy. And he throws.

[June Diane Raphael]

Charlize says to him, she's like, I was gonna tell you about this after New Year's. Like, the two of them, Charlize and Ben's characters are so strangely respectful of the Holly.

[Howard Kremer]

Don't wanna ruin.

[Ben Schwartz]

I didn't wanna ruin your Christmas by telling you my sociopath brother wants you to do a casino heist.

[Howard Kremer]

He throws his driver's license in the toilet. And then it's real weird, after he flushes the toilet, he pats the toilet twice. Like good toilet. You did what I did to you.

[Ben Schwartz]

Oh my God, that's the exact same thing. So stupid. Why was.

[June Diane Raphael]

He didn't have to do that, by the way.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What a long term con on his part. He's like, I'm gonna flush my license in the toilet so I have no proof of identification for the rest of my life. I mean, well, he's like on Parole. I gotta get laid. I gotta get laid.

[Paul Scheer]

I gotta.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Fuck.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Flush.

[Ben Schwartz]

I understood him at that point, hitting that point, like you knew him. Yeah, I felt like I got him at that point. Cause he both was working towards getting laid and not getting found out. And, you know, you wanted to tell the toilet, good job. Thanks, bro.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Hey, look, I always pat the toilet just to make sure.

[Paul Scheer]

Good job.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You ate that good. You did a good job.

[Ben Schwartz]

Should we discuss the. When they go to scout the casino and they get him a disguise?

[Howard Kremer]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So they need to scout this casino, and they figure the best way to dress him up, by the way, this is the most obvious crew of robbers.

[Ben Schwartz]

Right?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Cause even when they go get that pecan pie, it's like, basically he is sitting amongst the most thuggiest of thugs. It's like Danny Trejo, Clarence Williams, Donald Logue, Gary Sinise. And they're all dressed like Die Hard villains. And they don't look like. If you tell them, oh, yeah, I saw a fucking bunch of robbers in here. They all were sitting around this place with a guy with a bloody nose and a supermodel wearing sunglasses.

[Howard Kremer]

They were at the robbers table.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We had to actually put three tables together to get them all that. Robbers.

[Ben Schwartz]

How many? There's six of them. Put them at the robbers table. I feel like this is that era of movie making when it literally is like, okay, so we'll get a couple of good, like, character actors to play the bad guys. And then we just need one of the angry Steppenwolf guys. So either Malkovich or sinister, like, Sinise is basically doing a Malkovich impression for the entirety of this movie. He's not threatening at all. He's acting completely. He's like. He's slimmer and slighter and shorter than every single person in the movie. He is not at all scary.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, how about when he throws those darts at him and he reveals and he's hitting darts perfectly around Ben's head, like, kind of the way that they did it on the Tonight show, like the Tomahawk thing. And then goes, hey, I wasn't meaning to miss you.

[Howard Kremer]

And you go, ooh, I've been trying to hit you.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, I've been trying to hit you.

[Ben Schwartz]

So I'm just bad at this.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But, yeah, he's not an intimidating.

[Howard Kremer]

No. Cause Ben Affleck cracks wise so many times when he should be threatened. Like, he's about to be smashed in the face, but he just is flipping.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And then.

[Ben Schwartz]

Well, the other thing that I can't figure out is, like, they are murderers. But they've never committed a crime before. And he is just a truck driver.

[June Diane Raphael]

Are they murderers? I guess they do kill people.

[Ben Schwartz]

Eventually they kill people, like without remorse.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, but not. But not before this.

[June Diane Raphael]

Before they beat them.

[Ben Schwartz]

She says. I don't know, maybe she's lying. Because here's the thing. Spoiler alert.

[June Diane Raphael]

Is that she's playing a bunch of reindeer games.

[Ben Schwartz]

Yeah. Is that Charlize Theron is not just double crossing Ben Affleck because she is not Gary Sinise's sister. She is Gary Sinise's girlfriend. Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Which Ben Affleck finds out. But guess what? Another fucking twist.

[Ben Schwartz]

Double double cross. Nick, the prisoner who was Ben Affleck's best friend in prison is not dead. He's alive. Charlize Theron is his girlfriend. And the whole thing has been a con on Ben Affleck.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Ben Schwartz]

So they were.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And Gary Sinise and everybody they were counting on.

[Ben Schwartz]

There's a whole scene of dialogue at the end of the movie where this actor has to come out. He hasn't been seen in like an hour and a half.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Ben Schwartz]

And has to explain the entirety of the movie to us. It was awful.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, but by the way, how about.

[Paul Scheer]

The fact that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Now makes me question. Did she actually have the 50% discount? Did she really work in that store?

[Ben Schwartz]

We don't know she had the card.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I don't know. This con goes deep.

[Ben Schwartz]

If anyone in the audience knows.

[June Diane Raphael]

Cause 50% sounds like an enormous discount to get.

[Howard Kremer]

Even people who work in the corporate office don't get.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She's put in some years. She has got. Cause what she could do is just.

[June Diane Raphael]

Buy stuff and then sell it on her own and make some serious cash. I'm like a crazy discount.

[Howard Kremer]

Maybe she sold those other guys their clothes, their Robert or their Santa suits.

[June Diane Raphael]

Do you think she got the Santa suits from that.

[Ben Schwartz]

From the clothing store?

[June Diane Raphael]

From that clothing store?

[Sponsor Announcer]

Yeah.

[Ben Schwartz]

I know. I doubt it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So they go to case the joint and they decide to. And by the way. So the entire time in the movie, Ben. Ben is.

[Ben Schwartz]

I hope I didn't spoil the end too early in the podcast.

[Howard Kremer]

I don't think he did. It's too hard to follow that. Anybody.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, now we can kind of really uncover it from all angles because let's unpack this. Cause basically Ben is telling Gary Sinise the entire time, I'm not this guy. I'm not this guy. Now by the plan of this movie, Gary Sinise knows that he's not this guy, right?

[June Diane Raphael]

No.

[Howard Kremer]

No.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, I thought Gary Sinise is also being conned.

[Ben Schwartz]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

So niece does not know that he's not. That Gary Sinise has no way of knowing that a guy named Rudy was reading those letters.

[Ben Schwartz]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

Gary Sinise just knows he's Nick.

[Ben Schwartz]

Gary Sinise needs to believe he's Nick.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Even though everything falls apart, everything is going against him.

[Ben Schwartz]

And every point, even when at the point in the movie where he realizes this isn't Nick, he still says, where's the Powwow safe? Which is something that he invented.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Ben Schwartz]

Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, no. Well, now, I think you find out later that.

[Howard Kremer]

That it was mentioned in the letters.

[June Diane Raphael]

It was mentioned in the letters.

[Howard Kremer]

There's a part where Gary Sinise is trying to run Ben Affleck over with the car and the snow, and then she reaches over to pull the wheel. But why would they do any of that if it doesn't make sense when.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You go back over it?

[Ben Schwartz]

I think she's trying to.

[Howard Kremer]

She's trying to scam.

[June Diane Raphael]

She knew. I believe that. That if Nick had not killed Gary Sinise, then. I'm sorry. If Rudy had not killed Gary Sinise.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But Rudy didn't kill Gary Sinise. Charlize kills Gary Sinise.

[Ben Schwartz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Charlize kills Gary Sinise when it all come next to the truck at the end. Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She shoots Gary Sinise in the head.

[June Diane Raphael]

Right, right, right. I'm sorry. Right. So. But she. But he had no way of knowing, though. So you guys, wait.

[Ben Schwartz]

Hey, guys.

[June Diane Raphael]

I'm completely caught up in a reindeer game right now. I've really lost.

[Ben Schwartz]

All right, unravel it. Unravel it.

[Howard Kremer]

Even the screenwriters didn't bother to figure this out.

[June Diane Raphael]

So your question is, did Gary Sinise know that Rudy was not Nick?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No. That's what you guys are saying.

[June Diane Raphael]

I'm saying no to that.

[Ben Schwartz]

You're saying.

[June Diane Raphael]

I'm saying that Gary believes that Nick was Nick. He believed.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Sponsor Announcer]

That's what we all are.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Ben Schwartz]

We're all saying.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay, so we're all saying that.

[Sponsor Announcer]

All right. Okay.

[June Diane Raphael]

Sorry.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

All right.

[Ben Schwartz]

But now, that was amazing.

[June Diane Raphael]

Sorry, you guys. I got really lost.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's still better than the movie, hearing you describe.

[Ben Schwartz]

All right. I'm still trying to figure out the parental logic of Sleepaway camp.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It has been broken down online. You can check out our message boards. The movie or the movie?

[Ben Schwartz]

Yeah, the movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

All right, so let's get. So they go to Cays, this casino. They decide to dress Ben up in a. Like a cowboy. Like a comical cowboy outfit. Like, almost like a foghorn Leghorn had formal wear. This would be what he would be wearing. Like when.

[Howard Kremer]

Fuck. Sorry, I just killed your whole podcast. No, don't work when Norm MacDonald plays Burt Reynolds.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes, that's exactly what he looks like.

[Ben Schwartz]

That's perfect.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Big old cowboy hat, crazy mustache, bolo tie.

[June Diane Raphael]

By the way, this casino is so low rent.

[Howard Kremer]

Oh, God, it's terrible.

[Ben Schwartz]

What is Dennis Farina doing? I mean, poor Dennis Farina. He literally keeps having. He runs the casino and he keeps having the line like, I shouldn't have left Vegas. You know? Cause he's working in this PO Dunk.

[June Diane Raphael]

Why didn't Vegas.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He says to these, he's having a meeting with these two Native American men. It's a Tomahawk casino. And he goes and hey, you guys need to do some sort of rain dance and get it to stop snowing so I can do some business. And then the guys leave angered, and he's like, hey, guys, come back. We got prime rib at the thing. Like, it was like, wait, wait, wait. He just insulted these people, their religion, everything. And you're like, come on. Hey, come on, guys, eat the five.

[Ben Schwartz]

He shouldn't have left Vegas. And I felt like every time he was saying that, he was like, I shouldn't be in this movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I feel like everyone did this movie. I mean, Charlize Theron publicly came out and said, this is a very, very bad mov. The worst of my movies. I only did it cause John Frankenheimer did it, and I was kidding myself to do it. So I feel like everyone probably got off on that. Like, they're like, oh, well, John Frankenheimer directed it.

[Ben Schwartz]

I agree with that. Like, if you told me John Frankenheimer was directing a movie in that era, I would have been like, awesome. I'm into that. Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The only person who was not able to cut it was Vin Diesel, who was originally cast in an unspecified role. But he made so many demands regarding his character that the director, John Frankenheimer, fired him before production started. I bet you it was the Donnel Logue character. That's my gut.

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah. Or maybe like a combination of those guys. They were all Vin Diesel. They couldn't get Vin Diesel, so they broke the wall.

[Ben Schwartz]

They had to split it up.

[June Diane Raphael]

I don't want to get lost in a twist again. But so fuck, it's happening again. But if Nick. So if original Nick or original OG Nick knew that Rudy. He must have been prepping Rudy in prison this whole time and reading those letters and all that stuff, right? Why wouldn't he tell him more information about that? Casino.

[Ben Schwartz]

Like what?

[June Diane Raphael]

Like that. It had like, just more info. It seemed like Rudy Nick, when put on, the only thing he really knew was the Powwow safe. He didn't know anything else about the casino.

[Howard Kremer]

Good point.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That is a good point. It is an unanswered point.

[Ben Schwartz]

To what end?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, to me, the whole movie, the.

[Ben Schwartz]

Whole movie dream, all he needs is for them to rob the casino.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, but he's prepping. He's prepping Rudy to know how to do that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But he's not. Because basically at the end when Ben says to Gary Sinise, he's like, wait a second, if I died at any point, could you still have done this? And Gary Sinise is like, yeah, we could have.

[Ben Schwartz]

So basically he doesn't say it to Gary Sinis, he says it to Living Nick.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Ben Schwartz]

He says to living Nick, he's like, this is so crazy. There's so many moving parts to this. It could have fallen apart in any way. And he was like, yeah, it could have fallen apart. Oh, he's like, how did you know I would go with her? What if I had just gotten on the bus and left? And he's like, if you had, she would have just convinced Gary Sinise to do it without you.

[Paul Scheer]

Right.

[Ben Schwartz]

Like they would have done it anyway.

[Howard Kremer]

So you didn't even really need it, protagonist of the movie to be in it.

[Ben Schwartz]

No, you were ancillary.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And by the way, I would also argue this is one of the first movies where none of the characters are likable like Ben Affleck. I mean, he's not a likable guy because he goes from being a very put upon. Like he's like, yeah, I robbed cars and got the bum deal. And then he's like a dick. And he's not like he not he then, you know, he assumes the life of somebody else.

[Ben Schwartz]

He's feeding toilets, he's raw dogging Charlize Theron while she thinks he's some other guy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They're all evil people. None of them is redeeming, really.

[June Diane Raphael]

Jason.

[Paul Scheer]

What?

[June Diane Raphael]

She doesn't really think he's an.

[Ben Schwartz]

Oh, right, right, right. But he's a bad person because he thinks.

[June Diane Raphael]

Absolutely.

[Ben Schwartz]

She's saying.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But let's talk about real OG Nick.

[Ben Schwartz]

Really is very comfortable farming his girlfriend out to get plowed by everybody.

[Howard Kremer]

Different men is what he's really into. Maybe that's just to see that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Just to set up his girlfriend of them. All right, so they send him in Burt Reynolds style to this casino and now meanwhile you think, okay, well, this is a chance for Ben to case the casino. No, no, no. All the thug guys also come in fully thugged out. They're not in any sort of costumes. Again, they look like. Like robbers and thugs. They're wearing their one outfit that they have. And then what do they see? Well, oh, he sees this guy across the casino. Kind of looks like him. He's got a weird mustache and a goatee, too. Oh, who is it? Ashton Kutcher.

[Ben Schwartz]

What?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Ashton Kutcher. And does Ashton Kutcher have any lines in this movie?

[Ben Schwartz]

He's got two. Two lines in the bathroom. Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Which in the director's cut, are edited out.

[Ben Schwartz]

Really?

[Howard Kremer]

Yes. In the director's.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The director's cut, they edit out. I only can imagine that Ashton Kutcher owed something to the Weinstein Company. And they're like, you have to be in this movie. And he was like, okay, I'll do it.

[Ben Schwartz]

Is he a star in 2000?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, that 70s show has been on.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, yeah, he's a TV star.

[Ben Schwartz]

Because I was like, maybe he's a big.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Now that's not a part that you take.

[Howard Kremer]

I don't think. How huge could he have been by then? Not that big.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm going to look right now.

[Ben Schwartz]

I'm guessing he wasn't that big, but I just assumed this was, like, one of his early roles.

[June Diane Raphael]

Me too.

[Ben Schwartz]

You know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Really? I thought it was like, sort of.

[Ben Schwartz]

Like Stevie Herman in the Blue. All right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Cause I thought it was much more. That was a good pull. I thought it was much more like, look at this. Look at who this character is.

[June Diane Raphael]

I don't think he was doing movies then.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, we'll see. I'm gonna tell you right now. I'm looking as I need to be. Okay. In 2000, he had already done Dude, Where's My Car?

[Howard Kremer]

No.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yep. And he was on Just Shoot Me and then. Yeah. So he. I mean, he had done. He was an actor.

[Ben Schwartz]

He was the star of Dude, Where's My Car?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Ben Schwartz]

Oh, so this makes no sense.

[Howard Kremer]

Wait.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Howard Kremer]

Did that come out in 2? Shot in 2000.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It came out in 2000. So I guess, you know, so he was. He was the lead in the movie. So at that point, he also said, oh, I'll take this one line part. I mean, he was, you know, he.

[Howard Kremer]

Was a star that came out in Feb. That probably came out in the summer.

[Paul Scheer]

All right.

[Ben Schwartz]

Yeah. And maybe this. Maybe this had been shot years earlier.

[Howard Kremer]

Right.

[Ben Schwartz]

Maybe this sat around. Who knows?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

All right, so you guys are predicting. So you guys are predicting that this Is something that he. That he didn't.

[Ben Schwartz]

All right. I mean, we can just ask Kutch.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, we got Kutch on the phone.

[Ben Schwartz]

We can dial up the Kutch, folks.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Because, by the way, that 70s show started in 1998. So he had been on that 70s show for a couple of years.

[Ben Schwartz]

Okay, then he should not be in a role that has no lies, that has less than five lines.

[Howard Kremer]

But it's a Frankenheimer. That's probably how they got him.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, it's like, you wanna come in.

[Paul Scheer]

And do a Frank.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So basically, Ben just goes, take this coat. Here's a hundred bucks. And he's like, all right. And then he puts it on. And then he just runs around and he goes, he gave me $100. That's basically all of the coats lines. And teenage girls went crazy. In my mind, I feel like the Weinsteins were like, this kid's hot. Girls love him. Let's put him in this Frankenheimer movie. This movie will make a lot of money.

[June Diane Raphael]

Here's my bigger question. The scene after this when Charlize and Ben run away into a bank of snow and they try to escape, crazy Gary Sinise. Charlize Theron falls into.

[Howard Kremer]

The frozen pot. One of the best shots in the movie.

[Ben Schwartz]

Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

He's amazing. And then Ben Affleck jumps in after her. Now they swim away from the hole that they fell into and they swim.

[Ben Schwartz]

That happens to people when they fall through the ice is that they cannot find the hole they fell through. That is true.

[Howard Kremer]

The current might drag them or they can't see.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Is there a big.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay, because. All right. No, I'm glad to hear this because it looked so bright and it looked from where we were standing with them, the shot we were on with them, that you could see that other hole so clearly.

[Ben Schwartz]

Yeah, that's a huge thing. That is a real. I remember this from. As a kid growing up.

[June Diane Raphael]

You can't see that as a kid.

[Ben Schwartz]

Growing up playing hockey on frozen, like, ponds and lakes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But also, when you were growing up, like, clowns would chase you onto that ice.

[Ben Schwartz]

Guys, the clowns. Let's not fucking forget the clowns.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I gotta ask someone actually you. Has been validated on one of the many episodes of. A lot of People came to you defend.

[Ben Schwartz]

Oh, really? Oh, good. Oh, thank God. All right. Thank you. Thank you, people. But I remember there was. The whole threat was that you would fall through the ice and that you would not be. Because of how. When you get so disoriented that it's very easy to get back up and you're stuck there and you don't know where the hole is that you came out of.

[June Diane Raphael]

Terrifying.

[Ben Schwartz]

So kids would die underwater, not because they couldn't find that little hole they came through.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, wow.

[June Diane Raphael]

All right, so I'm glad to know this.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So this part of the movie is 100% factual. Ready to go. Luckily, they did not lose their machine gun and they're able to shoot through that ice.

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah. Is that factual?

[Ben Schwartz]

That's what I was wondering. Would a shotgun fire underwater?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, it was, it was a full on machine gun. It wasn't even a pump action. It was like, like they, like they were able to get through there.

[Paul Scheer]

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[Jason Mantzoukas]

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[Paul Scheer]

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[Jason Mantzoukas]

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[June Diane Raphael]

One of those heartbreaking moments is right after, though, when this little man, who this little local Yoko.

[Howard Kremer]

He's fishing on the ice.

[June Diane Raphael]

Ice fishing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Comes kind of like a grumpy old man.

[June Diane Raphael]

He was so sweet. And that actor. I thought he was one of the best actors in the movie. He says so sincerely, is everything okay, you guys? And then realizes that he's dealing with, like, bad guys. Murderous. Yeah, Sociopath.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Because they're all carrying guns.

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah, sure.

[June Diane Raphael]

He starts to run away and do you think he died in the house?

[Ben Schwartz]

Okay. Oh, no, wait. Definitely died.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Because it's on the newscast. It's the newscast.

[Ben Schwartz]

Because later they go into a room and the newscast in the background is saying the strange death of a local man on the river. This is still unsolved, but police suspect foul play.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, do they suspect foul play? Is that because his little ice house was shot up by a machine gun? And by the way, suspect foul play. This guy must have been in some serious shit. But these guys who are not robbers. Cause they've never robbed anything before. They're just truck drivers of the dream to rob.

[Ben Schwartz]

Who live out of the. Who live out of their truck.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They live out of a truck. That is like the Knight Rider truck. It's full decked out Motor City truck. Yeah, he. But, oh, my gosh, this movie sucked.

[Ben Schwartz]

I got so angry.

[June Diane Raphael]

So the scene where Gary Sinise is throwing Darth Van Affleck. Are they in, like the rec room of that hotel?

[Ben Schwartz]

Aren't they in the truck?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

All I know is that, no, they.

[June Diane Raphael]

Are not in the truck.

[Ben Schwartz]

They're in the truck.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, no, no, that's Jason.

[June Diane Raphael]

They're not in the truck. Cause there's pinball machine, pinball machines.

[Ben Schwartz]

In the truck.

[Howard Kremer]

That's like a shitty motel with, like, cinder block walls.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah. But then they have.

[June Diane Raphael]

All the rooms have cinder block walls.

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

By the way, you guys will be.

[Ben Schwartz]

Happy to know that I'm pretty sure that took place in the truck.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

By the way, wherever it took place, there was a big fog machine everywhere in that hotel. Hotel was foggy. It was like everything was defrosting. By the way, you'll be happy to know that Ron Perkins, the actor who was killed in the Ice House, is alive and kicking. He was just on the Mentalist, and he was on Veep, and he had a very big part on House MD so you can check out. He is Dr. Ron Simpson, but he's in a few of John Frankenheimer's movies. But, yeah, everything in that Hook Hotel looked like everything was steamy at all times. But my favorite line in the hotel was, Ben escapes from the hotel in a futile escape plan. Because he doesn't really get anywhere when he escapes. And he comes back and he's trying to break back into his hotel room, and he's like, ah, I can hot wire cars. I can hotwire hotel. That's what he says. I can hot wire cars.

[Ben Schwartz]

And all he's doing, he has somehow found a knife. How did he get ahold of that knife? I don't know. All he's doing to hotwire the door handle is touching the knife to the door, like, to the electronic component of the door handle. Just like, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. Green light. I'm in. There was no wires. There was no. There was nothing. It was just touching a metal knife.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's how it works.

[June Diane Raphael]

Metal to metal.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Jason, when he does escape that hotel for that futile escape plan, which I don't even understand why he escaped.

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah, he.

[Ben Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Howard Kremer]

And then he tries to get back in. Yeah. It's like you were loose. Like, keep running.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Just keep on running. And by the way, everybody, like, those four robbers are everywhere in that hotel. Every which way that he goes, there's another one of the bad guys. Like, hey, I'm down by the vending machine. Hey, I'm out reading my magazine. Hey, I'm over here in the pool. Like, they are all over the place.

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah. One guy finds leftovers outside somewhere.

[Paul Scheer]

Food.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

These are disgusting robbers. That's a disgusting trait to look through people's used food and eat it.

[Ben Schwartz]

That just shows you, though, how desperate these guys are.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But Ben got the one up on them because he was able to order a lot of pay per view. And these robbers did not want to pay for their pay per view.

[Ben Schwartz]

Cleared out the minibar, too.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Howard Kremer]

Another egregious tone shift where you're scared for this guy's life, and then all of a sudden, he's just dicking around and. And like the toothless villains.

[Ben Schwartz]

It was $1,200. It was a $1,200 bill.

[Howard Kremer]

No, that was a huge bill.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It was a huge. Like, I printed out an old computer printer. Like, you charge us all this money on pay per view.

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah, he'd do, like, one punch, that's for the pay per view. Another punch, that's for the minibar. It was so like Abbott and Costello.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, my God.

[Ben Schwartz]

And then.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So now we get to the big. The big things are happening. It's exciting. They're finally gonna rob this place. And man alive, to get you to this final scene, everything goes haywire. They all dress the. By the way, the big reveal that they're gonna rob the casino dressed as Santas.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's Christmas Eve.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Cause it's Christmas Eve. And then they reveal the suits. Like, we got a plan, man. And they open up a closet full of neatly hung Santa suits.

[Ben Schwartz]

In the truck.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

In the truck, Right.

[Howard Kremer]

And if you double back, the whole reason. The reason he dressed in the truck.

[Guest or Additional Announcer]

What?

[Ben Schwartz]

He's no guys.

[Howard Kremer]

We'll find out. The reason they. That they dressed him as a cowboy earlier is because they said, if you go in there regular now, they'll recognize you when the heist goes down.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Howard Kremer]

And then they. No, no, no.

[Ben Schwartz]

They were going to recognize him from when he used to work there as Nick. They were like, if you walk in now, they're going to recognize you as Nick. So he goes, that's why I need a disguise. And then they're like, it's either cowboy or ballerina, by the way.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Why would it be such a big deal if Nick came in and just. The old place he worked there. He wasn't fired for stealing. He could have just say, I'm here to visit. What's up?

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah, I'm the guy with the problem stealing cars.

[Ben Schwartz]

And it doesn't matter anyway. He goes in as the cowboy, Dennis Farina, who runs the museum. The casino says, hey, kind of like a museum, man. How'd you hear about us? How'd you hear about the casino? And he's just like, whatever, whatever. And then the bad guys are like, you were talking to the guy. Did you tip him off? Like, a huge part of the movie was contingent on them thinking that he had said something to Dennis Farina, which wasn't true at all.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The whole movie is based on lies that no one has enough information and are low stakes. Very low stakes lies.

[Howard Kremer]

Very low stakes, considering they didn't need Ben Affleck at all.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Ben Schwartz]

And by the way, the plan is walk in and shoot the police. Guess who you don't need for that? Ben Affleck.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

By the way, can I just bring out the larger flaw of this plan? The casino is not making any money. It is losing money. It is a not profitable casino. We're gonna rob it on Christmas Eve.

[Ben Schwartz]

A dead night, by the way.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So there usually.

[Ben Schwartz]

It's like. Usually high school movies are like, on this particular night, there happens to be three times as much money in the vaults because of Betty. Blah Blah, like Ocean's Eleven or whatever.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is like a fight night. That is something.

[Ben Schwartz]

This literally would be the night when there is the least amount of money in the least successful casino.

[Howard Kremer]

The shittiest casino on the shittiest night of the year.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We are standing to make hundreds of dollars tonight.

[Ben Schwartz]

It was. But yet when they get in the back room, tons of money.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I guess casinos just keep it there just in case they have a rush.

[Ben Schwartz]

Just wrapped up in perfect. Like in perfectly stacked bills.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

I also love that when they arrive at the casino, they cut to Dennis Farina, who's just watching the security cams. Just watching.

[Ben Schwartz]

And he's going, that Santa's kicking your ass. You security guy's asses.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, security guy's ass. Dennis Farina does not freak out when they're full on fight where they flip tables over. Happens on the main floor of his casino.

[Howard Kremer]

He's like, I freaked out on my last movie. I don't need to do it again.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Hey, guys, just put in Midnight Run. You'll see what I can do. Anyway, but then somehow Ben needs a weapon. They give him a weapon that has liquor in it. Which is.

[Ben Schwartz]

It's a squirt gun. They give him a squirt gun and then they pass around a bottle of rum later. Which he puts in the squirt gun.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. So he's like. That's a comic relief moment throughout the whole time. He can give himself a little squirt of rum.

[June Diane Raphael]

But it'll come in handy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Comes in really handy because when Ben is tied up against the wall, when he is stuck in this one moment, he's gonna get killed. The guy's like, I'm gonna kill you. But first, let me light a smile. Now, I didn't see this twist coming. I didn't think the squirt gun. I did not think the squirt. I mean, in the moment, I did, but I didn't see it leading up. The guy's like, before I'm gonna kill you. Let me take out my cigarette and my Zippo lighter. And he goes to light a cigarette, but Ben, very quick on the draw, shoots some quick rum at him and lights this guy on fire. In the most Hollywood I'm on fire. Like, special effects are amazing. It's like this guy goes up in flames, like. Like a fire started.

[Ben Schwartz]

Three squirts from his squirt gun, engulfs the man in insane flame.

[June Diane Raphael]

And by the way, when you say squirt, we should be clear. It's like such a tiny, small stream. There's no.

[Howard Kremer]

We should work that out. See what would really happen if someone was squirting.

[Ben Schwartz]

We should mythbuster this.

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah, mythbuster it.

[Ben Schwartz]

You think we should mythbuster this? All right, I like that.

[Howard Kremer]

Get my beret.

[Ben Schwartz]

I get the beard, you get the beret. Let's go.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I bet you someone online, one of our fans wants to make a YouTube video. I don't think you'll light yourself on. I don't think you'll light yourself on fire.

[Howard Kremer]

All you'll do is put out the cigarette. You'll just put out the cigarette.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Also, I will say that in this heist, there are more point blank misses of any movie ever because there's only like, six characters, so they can't kill each other that much, and they have to just miss each other non stop for the entire ending. Then they get all little bit, and I'm not even. This even goes to show you that it's not even a fun movie because you don't even remember how any of these guys die. Like, I don't remember how Trejo dies.

[Paul Scheer]

I don't remember how.

[Ben Schwartz]

Well, you know, like, everybody gets shot. Well, the problem is that everybody dies in Santa suits, so you can't tell who's being killed.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes, that is.

[Ben Schwartz]

At the end of the movie, everybody's indistinguishable from each other, except for Ben Affleck. And so you have a lot of trouble figuring out who's who. Like, like the guys in. When they open up the vault room, one of the Santas gets shot with a shotgun and flies backwards and dies. I'm not sure who that was. Maybe Danny Trejo or Donna Logue. Not sure.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You don't know.

[Ben Schwartz]

And that's what it's like. You're not tied to any of these deaths. Because I don't fucking get it. Like, who was that? Why did that just happen?

[Howard Kremer]

So if you. Any movies where the achievement is that you can't tell the difference between Danny Trejo and Donald Logue, that's pretty good accomplishment.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, but that's a big part of. Well, I thought it was gonna be a huge part of the ending. When Ben Affleck said. When they say to Ben Affleck that five Santas came into the casino.

[Ben Schwartz]

Oh, yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

So five Santas need to be dead.

[Howard Kremer]

Right.

[June Diane Raphael]

But there weren't five Santas dead there.

[Ben Schwartz]

No. Well, what you think. What I thought was gonna happen was that Ben Affleck was. That Ben Affleck was gonna. Once Nick. Once OG Nick got killed, he's gonna.

[June Diane Raphael]

Put the Santa suit on.

[Ben Schwartz]

Ben Affleck should have put his Santa suit on OG Nick and killed him. Because then Ben Affleck can walk away unscathed. Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wait, but by the way, they keep on saying that they blow it, but at the end of the movie, they blow up everybody anyway. They're all on fire. They don't need to put the Santa suits on anyone. They're all burnt to a crisp.

[Ben Schwartz]

I don't disagree.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

There's like.

[Ben Schwartz]

And then. Am I to believe that the end. At the end of this movie, he gives all of the money away in people's mailboxes and then goes to his own family's dinner.

[Howard Kremer]

When they, like, the movie could have been over? So way before that. Oh, yeah. But they took the time to show you him going to his holiday to watch the ball game with his dad.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That was it, like, his whole dream.

[Ben Schwartz]

He's still bloodied and in the Santa suit.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's in a bloody Santa suit. And he's at home at the head of his kitchen table with this convict.

[Howard Kremer]

The big smile on his face in a bloody Santa suit.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And his last line is, I know what the holidays mean now. Like, he knows.

[Howard Kremer]

Learned a lesson.

[June Diane Raphael]

You pointed out some mailboxes got too.

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

The first chunks of chill.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, he would take all that money and he would. Like, sometimes he would put like, one stack of bills, and sometimes it's two.

[Ben Schwartz]

So people should know. He walks away with the stolen money.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Ben Schwartz]

Right. And now in my mind, I'm like, hey, return that money to the casino. Because those people. That tribe was struggling, you know? Return that money.

[June Diane Raphael]

A lot of casino workers were killed.

[Ben Schwartz]

But instead. Instead he Robin Hood it and he puts it in just people's mailboxes. He walks down the street, what he should have done.

[Howard Kremer]

They finally make him likable in the last scene.

[June Diane Raphael]

But that wasn't likable. What he should have done, he should have started a fund for all of the families of the casino workers who were killed in that shootout. He should have started checking and taking care of them.

[Ben Schwartz]

I think he should have just either left the money there and called the police to the scene of the tricolor.

[June Diane Raphael]

Then it's evidence, Jason. They can't do anything with it.

[Ben Schwartz]

Doesn't it won't evidence get returned to the casino?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Casino guys, I don't know.

[Howard Kremer]

Should he should have done with the money. He should have made those design changes that he was trying to convince them took place on the casino.

[June Diane Raphael]

He should take over the casino.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Can I. Did anyone catch the real twist ending of the movie? So he gets home to his parents house and the entire thing was orchestrated by his dad to get him home for Christmas. So his dad set up his prison roommate to fake his death. It was a long term family con to get him home for Christmas. That's all it was. It's a movie about family.

[Ben Schwartz]

Well played.

[Howard Kremer]

Rudolph dad.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Rudolph's dad, whose name is Santa.

[June Diane Raphael]

And no, the whole idea, the reason why he was called Nick was because that was the whole theme of the movie. Do you believe. Do you believe it's Nick? Do you believe in Saint Nick? Yeah.

[Howard Kremer]

Hey, can we talk about. He dispatches Charlize Theron. She's on the hood of the car and she goes over the cliff.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Howard Kremer]

And then now it's time to get rid of the real villain, her brother. And it's just the same exact thing. Just sends him over the cliff. Same two deaths right in a row.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Ah, fuck it. We don't care. We just do it again. Let's do it.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Exactly.

[Ben Schwartz]

Oh well, no, the difference difference is the first thing she went over the cliff on the hood of a car. And then the next thing it's an 18 wheeler that goes over the cliff. Oh, it's a big. So it is basically completely different.

[Howard Kremer]

Okay.

[Ben Schwartz]

So shame on you.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I did love that.

[Howard Kremer]

I need a different license to push those off.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I did like his one line.

[Ben Schwartz]

You have to be able to double clutch.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wait, what did he go? What did he say? Wow, man. I'm gonna mess up the line. But I did like it. He's like one. First rule, never trust.

[Howard Kremer]

Never put a car thief behind the wheel.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, that was it. And that was able to just reverse into the brother or reverse into the OG Nick. Get him and drive her off the cliff. Oh, it was an anticlimactic ending, just seeing cliff fall off, a thing exploding, it's like, all right, is there any. Obviously we had an opinion about this movie, but it's time to hear some second opinions. These are reviews culled from Amazon.com, five star reviews. This is five star, five star reviews. So here you can agree or disagree with this.

[Howard Kremer]

Critics or just pedestrians.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

These are pedestrians. These are what America is thinking. Josh Miller says Reindeer Games works on so many levels as an action film, it's damn near flawless. In fact, I think it is flawless. Flawless, except for the lame brain twist that was gonna throw in at the end, but that didn't ruin it. So I stick to my five stars. I'm gonna have to start trusting Elmore Leonard a lot more because his mini review on the COVID sums up everything. Well, Reindeer Games rocks.

[June Diane Raphael]

Whoa.

[Ben Schwartz]

Jesus.

[Howard Kremer]

Really?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's more accurate than Stephen King has been about certain movies. So that's a guy who's trusting author mini reviews on a dvd.

[Howard Kremer]

That's what makes you start liking Elmore Leonard.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This one is a good one too. Amando Mesa writes, even viewers who are not familiar with the previous works of Affleck, Theron, Arsenees will surely change any misconceptions about their underrated acting abilities. Because I can't figure out how Theron and Affleck turn on the waterworks. Is it method acting or real emotions? It's incredibly believable.

[Howard Kremer]

Do they even cry in this movie?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I don't remember them crying. Gary Sinise can play either good or bad flawlessly. If he's a good character, he's intense. If he's a bad one, he's super intense.

[Howard Kremer]

He turns it up.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The only drawback. This is it. The only drawback. This is a five star review is that this is the kind of movie where the twists in the story will be fresh in your mind for the next three days. And then afterwards you're gonna want to analyze the whole thing and remember it afterwards. So that is the drawback. Thinking is the drawback on this movie. And this one. I just. I pulled these two. I don't. This one is. This one I wouldn't normally read, but it's so it's a five star review and I think it's funny. Kilmari writes, sinise is terrific as the deranged wannabe thief wants to get past his hideous reptilian looks. How many camera lenses did they go through?

[Ben Schwartz]

Wait, what is the presumption there? That his looks are so bad that he would break camera lenses?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes, many.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But he is terrific. He is terrific. He is a five star review.

[Ben Schwartz]

His reptilian. Reptilian looks. He does look a little like a character like from V. And then somebody.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Else just compares Affleck to. Affleck is emerging as a star who possesses a commanding screen presence only afforded by older, more distinguished actors such as Sean Connery and Ed Harris. Therome proves to be the theatrical equal of Marlene Datrich. So those are some five star reviews. Is there anything that we missed? Anything that anyone had written down that we didn't talk about?

[Howard Kremer]

Nobody else may buy into this one. But I thought that Nick, the OG Nick.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Howard Kremer]

He reminded me of Todd Berry. Like if Todd Berry.

[Ben Schwartz]

Yeah, kind of a little bit of.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I like that.

[Ben Schwartz]

A little bit of Todd Berry in him. I.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He didn't like. I had actually prefer to see that character played by Todd now.

[Howard Kremer]

I would've been good at it. Cause he's like a mastermind.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, I would've liked to see like. Cause I think Todd's energy. His look is similar. But Todd's energy would have nailed that part. He would've brought that wrestler magic to that guy.

[Ben Schwartz]

I looked that. Cause I was like, who is that guy? Yeah. And he's been in like every TV show. He's been in everything, but has never had like a big thing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, this could have been it. Any. Anybody else. Anybody else. Anything before we wrap it up.

[Howard Kremer]

Just if the Little Drummer Boy is constantly getting sung by.

[Ben Schwartz]

Oh yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

The Christmas music made me sick in this movie.

[Howard Kremer]

They ruined the Christmas music. And then there's like sort of upbeat Christmas chamber music at the end. Like it just. Which didn't match any part of the movie at all. It was.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It was like. It was like a Die Hard thing. It was like, oh yeah, Die Hard.

[Paul Scheer]

It's like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, I think they were just like mashing together. They also fired their composer in the middle of this movie. So like half of the music is done by Akiva. Or I'll find out the two different composers. Like James Dolphins.

[Howard Kremer]

They had that February 25 deadline.

[Ben Schwartz]

They had to get it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Guys, I gotta get this Christmas movie out by February 25th.

[Ben Schwartz]

I thought the pool scene with Charlize and Gary Sinise was very gross. Where they are revealed to be local. She takes her top off. Great tits on Charlize Theron. I'll say that.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She's making it quite a few times.

[Ben Schwartz]

Then that make out they share is disgusto. I thought that was gross.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Every make out in this. Everything is gross in this movie. I mean make out wise. I was very grossed out by it.

[June Diane Raphael]

So. Intrigued by that hotel too, because it looked like a Motel 6, but then it had this like weird indoor pool area.

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah. It's like, why do they have that pool? That's too nice.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That pool is. By the way, also, when Ben finds out that Shirley Charlize and Gary Sneeze are fake dating, the way he finds out about it is he hears Charlize yelling like, hey, get your hands off me. Get your fucking hands off me. And then he goes in and then he finds out, oh, they're going out. But she's drinking out of a wine glass. And it looked like they were having a romantic interlude. So it didn't look like they were in the middle of a fight. It seemed like they were just like they were drinking wine. They were clearly over it, right?

[Howard Kremer]

Relaxing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, they were really.

[Howard Kremer]

But there was some argument. I don't even remember who took place. But there was a point where he goes, you said he was stabbed? He took a shot. Shiv.

[Ben Schwartz]

Oh, that's.

[Howard Kremer]

I said he died.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's how it all becomes revealed.

[Howard Kremer]

Who is it? It's Sinise.

[Ben Schwartz]

She says that to Affleck and then he's like, Affleck's like, wait, how do you know he took a shiv? I never told you that.

[Howard Kremer]

Right? And then they just keep repeating that.

[Ben Schwartz]

They keep repeating it back and forth because that's letting Gary Sinise know that he's being double crossed. And he doesn't. He gets super confused. That's when she shoots him in the head, right? And she goes, oh, man.

[Howard Kremer]

Okay.

[Ben Schwartz]

And then she becomes the true cold hearted bitch that we all knew she was.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, Women don't trust women. Even though she hates men.

[Ben Schwartz]

She's from South Africa.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Man. Oh, man.

[Paul Scheer]

Please, please.

[Howard Kremer]

In the beginning, when he's talking to his, his cellmate in the cell, his cellmates, like reading the letters from Charlize. They're on. And Ben Affleck is exercising, doing push ups. He's doing push ups. And his wife, Peter. And then he turns over and he starts doing like sit ups. But he's just in full conversation as he's doing these weird. It just seems like, where does he even get the breath to have that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Conversation, by the way? I kept on thinking, like, he must have made that. Regretted that choice immediately. Like, as he's like, take 17.

[Ben Schwartz]

Fuck.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, because he has to really do it in those scenes, by the way. That's also like a great part of the movie where there should be Some, like, witty repartee between these two. Like prison inmates.

[Howard Kremer]

Nope, nope.

[Sponsor Announcer]

None.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Very, very stale.

[Ben Schwartz]

Even though Ben Affleck has told us in voiceover. And that's my best friend Nick.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Ben Schwartz]

It's ludicrous.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And there's a moment even in the beginning where he was like, hey, maybe I should fuck this girl that you want to go fuck.

[Ben Schwartz]

Yeah, that was weird.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And he was like. And then the guy.

[June Diane Raphael]

Also, a really big coincidence that they're being let out on the same day.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Howard Kremer]

Two cellmates.

[Ben Schwartz]

Cause originally I remember thinking, like, oh, they must be in for the same crime. They must have been partners. And they weren't. They were just cellmates. No.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

One guy, that guy killed.

[Paul Scheer]

Original.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Stabbed somebody. Ben Affleck just stole some cars. No big deal, but that's the way life treats me.

[Howard Kremer]

Maybe the warden was like, we'll put you two guys together because you get out on the same day so there won't be any conflicts in your cell.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, you know. Yeah, it's all about rooms.

[June Diane Raphael]

There won't be any hidden resentment because.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, it's so tough to get new roommates in there, too.

[Howard Kremer]

Hey, did you. Ron Jeremy's in the credits as prisoner number one. I didn't see him in the.

[Ben Schwartz]

Whoa.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I did not see him in there, either.

[Howard Kremer]

I didn't see him.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, no. His name is Ron H. Hyatt. Prisoner number one is what it says. Oh, but it is him.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Ron Hyatt is Ron Jeremy. That's his A.K.A.

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Ben Schwartz]

What?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Did not know that.

[Howard Kremer]

Wow. Hey, I don't know if you guys. You know the movie Bandits came out around the same time with Bruce Willis.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, no, that's the one where he's, like, having cancer. Him and. Him and. Oh, man. The guy from Billy.

[Howard Kremer]

Billy Bob.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Howard Kremer]

So I'm not that familiar with this movie, but this kept reminding me of it because it's, like, just that same era and kind of these sprawling crime trips.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Directed by Barry Levinson, too. Like an older director trying to get in on this new.

[Howard Kremer]

Yeah, but I think that one's terrible, too, but I'm not sure if it's as bad as it is.

[Ben Schwartz]

All right, we'll have you back for that, then.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Stay tuned for Bandits, 2001's Bandits. Opening weekend, $13 million, $80 million budget. This movie was $40 million, and it made $30 million worldwide. All said and done.

[Paul Scheer]

Wow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And all said and done.

[Howard Kremer]

Did Frankenheimer just pass away or they just said, no more for you?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That was it. He went to movie jail permanently. That was his last film.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, would I recommend that you watch this?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I wouldn't think it's a necessity to see it. I think you could pass on it. I think if you want to watch that Icefall scene is pretty good. And maybe the end is pretty good too.

[Ben Schwartz]

Yeah, you can watch. This is a watch while fast forwarding.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. All right, so that wraps up Reindeer Games. Merry Christmas to all those who celebrate it and Happy Holidays to all those who don't. See you in the new year.

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