Sleepaway Camp w/ Zack Pearlman (HDTGM Matinee)

Summary

How Did This Get Made? — “Sleepaway Camp” w/ Zack Pearlman (HDTGM Matinee)

Date: October 21, 2025
Hosts: Paul Scheer, June Diane Raphael, Jason Mantzoukas
Guest: Zack Perlman
Podcast: How Did This Get Made?
Episode Theme:
A raucous, joke- and debate-filled Halloween breakdown of the bizarre 1983 cult slasher “Sleepaway Camp”—a “bad” movie so memorable and confusing, it leaves the hosts desperately untangling its twisted plot, legendary final reveal, and baffling character relationships.

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Brief Overview

In this special Halloween episode, Paul, June, and Jason—joined by comedian Zack Perlman—dive into the infamously strange and campy horror film Sleepaway Camp. Known for its shocking twist ending and wild blend of incompetence and accidental brilliance, the movie’s bonkers plot, questionable acting, and jaw-dropping content spark nonstop laughter, confusion, and deep-dive theorizing from the panel. The group tries to reason out the film’s labyrinthine familial relationships, discuss highlights including its ultra-bizarre characters and deaths, and celebrate its lasting meme-worthy legacy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Initial Impressions & Cultural Context

• None of the hosts had seen or heard of Sleepaway Camp before, but all agree it’s uniquely strange and “so bad it’s good.”
  • “It kind of feels like The Room, at the top. You're kind of like, oh, this is bad acting, it’s not really well shot. But this... was a real deal film.” —June (03:17)
• The film was actually a modest box-office success given its tiny budget, grossing $11 million on a $350,000 budget and even knocking Amityville Horror 3D out of first place.
  • “That is shocking to me. This movie is horrible.” —Jason (03:58)

2. Production Value and Camp Aesthetic

• Jokes are made about the amateur feel: the cast seemingly comprised of actual children and 30-year-olds, ubiquity of crop tops and extremely short shorts, and the “Long Island accents.”
  • “It feels like somebody’s like, well, my dad owns a summer camp, we could probably shoot a movie there... and get everybody we know with terrible Long Island accents.” —Jason (04:22)
  • “So many outlines of penises.” —Paul (04:51)
  • “They're not even shorts. They're just like penis holders.” —June (04:56)

3. Wildly Inappropriate Content

• The hosts are aghast and fascinated by the film’s overt pedophilia, sexualization of children, and inappropriate adult-child interactions.
  • “Between just the overt pedophilia... the over-sexualization of the under 12 set and the short shorts, I was like, this movie is insanity.” —Jason (05:01)
  • A camp cook openly leers at the campers with lines like (25:05) “Where I come from, we call them baldies,” and boasts about his interest in prepubescent kids, making everyone extremely uncomfortable.

4. The Infamous Camp and Characters

• The Baseball Scene: An extraneous, lengthy game where small kids play (and trash talk) against visibly older actors.
  • “It looks like 8-year-olds playing 30-year-olds.” —June (05:24)
  • “The baseball game is just a baseball game... no tension… it literally is a scene where someone hits a baseball and there's a kid... playing a handheld boxing video game.” —June (06:21)
• Creepy Mom: Provides an over-the-top, memorably bizarre performance, instantly dubbed “Krazo.”
  • [Clip played: Mom’s speech] (09:04-09:36)
  • “She was making a choice. And a final one at that.” —Paul (09:51)

5. Plot Untangling: Who Are These People?

• The hosts spend considerable time (13:00–19:00; 60:00–63:00) trying to piece together the family relationships, the meaning of the film’s mysterious “Doctor is coming” line, and ultimately the identity of Angela, the killer, and her connection to her "aunt."
  • “This is my understanding of the movie...” —Jason tries repeatedly to explain, getting hilariously tangled (13:54)
  • “We gotta walk to the end.” —June (13:54)

6. Signature Death Scenes

• Burned Cook (32:03–36:30): The lecherous chef’s death involves being doused with a huge pot of boiling water, which leads to an excessively long, scream-filled reaction.
  • “If you think about how long it would have taken an ambulance to get there, that man was sitting there for an hour and a half, screaming in the same position.” —Zack (35:09)
• Boating and Bee Deaths: Multiple campers die in convoluted ways involving canoes and swarms of bees (41:38–53:14).
  • “The amazing... line, ‘First I gotta take a wicked dump.’” —Zach (51:45)
• Meg’s Shower Murder:
  • “She leans back on the shower... and the killer stabs through the wall, from neck to ass... at no point does she step forward.” —Paul (48:36–48:50)
• Judy’s Curling Iron Demise:
  • “Judy was killed by having a hot curling iron stuck into her vagina.” —Jason (43:22)

7. Angela’s (and the Movie’s) Final Twist

• After a sequence of increasingly nonsensical, “genderless” killings, the ultimate reveal: Angela is not Ricky’s sister but cousin, and in fact is really Peter—the boy survivor, forced to live as a girl by the insane Aunt Martha (59:29–60:00).
  • [June paraphrasing Martha’s monologue] (58:42–59:41)
  • “Angela gets up... Paul’s decapitated head rolls off her lap... She turns around to face everybody and has a tiny dick.” —Jason (59:41)
  • “That is bonkers. That’s how the movie ends.” —June (60:00)
• The hosts immediately try to retroactively make sense of the rest of the plot, gender confusion, and relationships, with no clear outcome.
  • “She’s been raised as a girl, so probably has a crush on Paul because he's a guy... That’s why the kiss is so... she reacts so weird.” —Jason (62:55)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

Bad Movie Celebration

• “Let’s wallow in the mediocrity of subpar art!” —June (02:21)
• “It feels like the camp itself had a class called ‘let’s make a movie’—and this movie is the result.” —Paul (04:14)

On Plot Confusion

• “There’s no more difficult movie in our history to try and unravel.” —Jason (22:00)
• “Are we to understand that Ricky knows Angela is a dude?” —Paul (64:25)

Best Deaths and Dialogue

• “My favorite part is how angry that guy gets at the drop of a hat. He’s out of salt—fuck this salt!” —Zach, about the killer-cook scene (31:41)
• “All of the times where he wasn’t talking, it cuts back to the back of a body...it’s the same shot. No blood at all.” —Zach (51:03)
• “Hey, eat shit and live, Bill.” —classic in-movie retort quoted by June (51:25)
• “She just falls to the ground... so weird. So do you think the knife was holding her on the back and in the wall at the same time?” —Paul (49:37)

Shock at the Ending

• “She’s holding a knife, screams this bloodcurdling scream, turns around... and has a tiny dick.” —Jason (59:41)
• “That monologue, though, actually, when you read it, answers a lot of my outstanding questions.” —Jason (60:07)
• “That is bonkers. That’s how the movie ends.” —June (60:00)

“Second Opinion” Five-Star Reviews

• “This movie stops, and you’re never the same again. Five stars.” —Amazon review, read by June (68:20)
• “Watch this movie with a dog.” —Amazon review, read by June (70:36)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Boating Accident Opening: 07:41–12:00
• Untangling the Family Tree / Gender Twist: 13:00–19:19; 58:42–63:41
• Infamous Camp Cook / Boiling Water Death: 30:34–36:43
• Baseball Scene Ridicule: 05:24–07:41
• Judy & Meg’s Deaths: 47:26–49:50
• Bee Death (“Wicked dump!”): 51:37–53:33
• Angela’s Sexuality & Flashbacks: 54:20–57:17
• The Final Reveal (Angela’s True Identity): 57:40–60:00
• Sequels and “Return to Sleepaway Camp”: 65:34–66:48
• Second Opinions (Amazon Reviews): 68:20–71:25

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Other Highlights and Running Jokes

• Wet Hot American Summer Reference:
  • The hosts note Sleepaway Camp as the direct inspiration for Wet Hot American Summer’s look and tone (40:43–40:56; 40:57).
• Recurring Bit on “Eating Shit and Living”:
  • The camp’s kid dialogue, dripping with genuine 1980s profanity and meanness (51:25).
• Fake Mustaches:
  • “Did you guys notice that cop at the end had the worst fake mustache?” —Zach (63:55)
• Angela’s First Words:
  • “She speaks like 45 minutes into it.” —Zach (67:05)

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Conclusion & Recommendations

• The hosts (and Zack Perlman) universally recommend watching Sleepaway Camp—ideally with friends, on YouTube, for a blend of laughter, shock, and confusion.
• Jason notes: “Even if you’re not going to watch the movie, watch the last 10 minutes.” (65:25)
• The legendary ending cements the film’s status as a must-watch for lovers of cult cinema and bad-movie aficionados.

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“If you have not watched this movie, you need to stop listening right now. Watch it now.” —June (16:35)

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Follow-Up

• Zack Perlman can be found on Twitter as @ZackPurlman and on MTV’s The Inbetweeners.
• Next week: More cinematic weirdness with the How Did This Get Made? crew!

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Happy Halloween!

Transcript

[Paul Shear]

What if you had the smartest WI fi? If you did, it'd be Xfinity and it'd come with their best state of the art equipment. It would boost speeds to the devices that needed them most, whether you were streaming, gaming or gaming while pretending to work. It would even power your mobile connection.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So you could bring faster secure wi.

[Paul Shear]

Fi speeds with you where you use it most. If you had the smartest WI fi, everything would work together seamlessly to keep you connected.

[June Diane Raphael]

Xfinity.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Imagine that restrictions apply.

[June Diane Raphael]

Your coworker's eating mystery leftovers again. But you you respect your lunch break. Grab a new toasted pizza sandwich from Jimmy John's. Yeah, toast it. Try the Sicilian salami capicolo ham, rich marinara gooey mozzarella and oregano basil all on golden French bread. Or go cheese mode with the three cheese parmesan provolone mozzarella dripping with marinara and herbs. Hot, melty, seriously satisfying. Order one pronto. Jimmy John's new toasted pizza sandwiches. Oh, that's good. At participating locations for a limited time while supplies last morning Zoe got donuts.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Jeff Bridges why are you still living above our garage?

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me so Dana.

[Paul Shear]

Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system. Wow.

[June Diane Raphael]

Impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.

[Paul Shear]

Nice je free.

[June Diane Raphael]

You heard them. T Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Us with eligible traded in any condition.

[June Diane Raphael]

So what are we having for lunch?

[Paul Shear]

Dude, my work here is done.

[June Diane Raphael]

24 monthly bill credits on experience beyond for well qualified customers + tax and 35 device connection charge credits ended balance due if you pay off earlier.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Cancel Finance agreement.

[June Diane Raphael]

IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1099.99 and new line minimum 100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oaklove Speed Test Intelligence data 1H 2025 visit t mobile.com fake mustaches, short shorts and underage sex. It's not a porno. We saw sleepaway camp so you know what that means. Now it's time for how did this debate we're gonna have a good time.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Celebrating failure, not just be a hater. Cause you know you wonder how did this remain? Let's wallow in the mediocrity of subpar Arctic.

[June Diane Raphael]

Perhaps we'll find the answer to the question, how did this get made? Hello, people of Earth, and welcome to how did this get Made? I am joined, as always, by my two co hosts. Join June Diane Rayfield. How are you, June?

[Paul Shear]

Good, how are you, Paul?

[June Diane Raphael]

Very good. And Jason Mantzoukas. How are you, Jason?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm pretty good. How are you?

[June Diane Raphael]

Very good. It is Halloween week. This is our Halloween episode. A movie that you picked for us. We came to you, we asked you what is their best Halloween movie. Everyone decidedly picked Sleepaway Camp. And we have a very special guest today with us. Please welcome Zach Perlman.

[Zach Perlman]

Hey.

[June Diane Raphael]

Hey, Zach. You can see Zach on his MTV show. The Inbetweeners airs on Thursday nights.

[Zach Perlman]

Monday nights.

[June Diane Raphael]

Monday nights.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Monday night. The Thursday of the early week.

[June Diane Raphael]

Exactly. Should replay on Thursday nights. All right. I never heard of Sleep Waking.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Same. Never heard of it.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, I never knew it existed. And man, now I am so happy that I know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is crazy.

[June Diane Raphael]

This is one of the most bizarre movies. It kind of feels like the room at the Top, you're kind of like, oh, this is bad acting. It's not really well shot. But this just so you know, was a real deal film.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It was.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. It was released. I just wanna just say, I mean.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I get that it's a real movie, but I mean, like, to me, I took it to be a real amateur production.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, I will say this, that when it opened up, it was number one. It grossed a total of $433,000 on the opening weekend. And it was. It knocked out amityville horror in 3D.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Really?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. So it made like $11 million at the end of the day for a movie that only cost 350,000 dol.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay. Because that is shocking to me. Because this movie is horrible.

[June Diane Raphael]

I mean, it's. It is. That's why I thought I was like, oh, this is like a low budget movie that no one should ever see. Like, you know, like Jack Frost. He's killing and chilling. No, no, this is like a real.

[Paul Shear]

Like the camp itself had a class called let's make a Movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Paul Shear]

And this movie is the result of. Yes. Final project.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It feels to me. It doesn't feel like a low budget horror movie. You know what I mean? Like in the sense of like, oh, you know, like shitty horror movies that studios like, barf out to capitalize on the fact that people. It feels like somebody who's like, well, my dad owns A summer camp. We could probably shoot a movie there. We'll get some cameras, we'll get a bunch of short shorts and we'll get everybody we know with terrible Long island accents.

[Paul Shear]

Crop T shirts.

[June Diane Raphael]

Crop T shirts.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Because we can't afford longer shorts or full T shirts.

[Paul Shear]

So many outlines of penises.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Holy shit.

[June Diane Raphael]

They're not even shorts. They're just like penis holders. I mean that's all they are.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They're cock baskets. The movie between just the overt pedophilia, that overt pedophilia, the favorite part, the over sexualization of the under 12 set and the short shorts. I was like, this movie is insanity.

[Paul Shear]

Although I will say that this camp is comprised of 11 year old campers and 35 year old campers.

[June Diane Raphael]

Y there's literally a 10 minute long baseball scene where it looks like 8 year olds playing 30 year olds. And the 30 year olds are so mad at these 8 year olds.

[Zach Perlman]

The thing is everyone is mad in the film at all times. Everyone is mad. And while watching that baseball scene they were talking shit like hard trash talking and then pitching underhand.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, really under. It was so.

[Zach Perlman]

It was just like. And here you go like lobbing the ball.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And the 8 year, the 11 year olds rather are killing. They are crushing. They're always getting the best of the older kids who are, you know, I'm assuming meant to be like 15, 16 year olds but are played by 30 year olds.

[Paul Shear]

But that's a weird, that was a weird runner in the movie because it doesn't ever pay off or did I miss it?

[June Diane Raphael]

No, the baseball game is just a baseball game.

[Paul Shear]

What's the point of that baseball scene?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, I think it's just to show us the competitiveness between the older kids and the younger kids and like how the older kids are bullies. Basically.

[June Diane Raphael]

To me, the way I thought of it was the movie ran 75 minutes and like we need to add a 10 minute long baseball sc just to get this to theatrical length. Because I mean the baseball game like there literally is a scene where someone hits a baseball and there's a kid in the outfield and he's playing a video game, like a handheld boxing video game.

[Zach Perlman]

Oh, you mean Mozart.

[June Diane Raphael]

Wow. You know the kid's name?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh yeah, the kid's name is definitely.

[Paul Shear]

I did not remember that Mozart because we never saw him with any because he's a nerd and he's just a nerd.

[Zach Perlman]

Someone from Long Island's like, what's a nerd? Mozart writes music is a nerd.

[June Diane Raphael]

So Basically, the ball is coming at Mozart, who's on his video game, his portable video game device. And then he's like, oh, no. Drops the video game and then catches the ball with no. Like, it was a lot of tension for no reason.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And you would think, you would continue to think that the younger kids are perceived of as nerds and lame os, you know, but they are always hitting home runs, catching all the balls like they are winning all the time.

[June Diane Raphael]

But there's also no tension in this baseball game. I don't know when it's gonna end with what's at stake. It didn't seem like there's no score. There was no score.

[Zach Perlman]

There was no score.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, no. At one point they were like, what's the score? And then one kid goes, I think it's six, eight. And I was like, what you think it is?

[June Diane Raphael]

It's not the best way to do it. All right, so let's just go back to the beginning. The movie opens up with one of the best scenes. I would say that.

[Zach Perlman]

Wait, is it the thing to Mom? Cause that. That set.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wait, no, the cold open.

[June Diane Raphael]

No, the cold open. The boating scene.

[Zach Perlman]

Oh, God, the bullshit. The title at the beginning, which was in fond memory of Mom a Doer.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes, I forgot about that. The movie is dedicated to a mom.

[Zach Perlman]

It's not like a mom, like, loving woman who helped me through childhood. It's a doer.

[June Diane Raphael]

A doer.

[Paul Shear]

Wait a second. I thought that was just a title card that some. The person who put this movie on YouTube put up there.

[June Diane Raphael]

No, I think that's a part of the movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm assuming it's part of the movie.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, me too.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Although your version of it is also fascinating because for somebody. First I want. Now I want to examine that. Cause somebody's like, ooh, I gotta upload this bonkers next level crazy horror movie to YouTube. But I gotta do it as a tribute to my mom.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, this is my mom.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She did stuff.

[Zach Perlman]

You know what?

[June Diane Raphael]

The person who put up these movies, it's called Sleepaway Camp tv. So I don't think it's a person dedicating things to their mom. I think it is the way the movie opens. I think the person who made this movie, which is even more sick and twisted, and this is a love letter to his or her mom.

[Zach Perlman]

Do you think his mom was based off of his mom?

[June Diane Raphael]

God.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Cause she's the mom in this movie, is straight up krazo.

[Paul Shear]

By the way, that's an amazing performance.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Do we have this?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes, we do have creepy Mom. We're gonna play a clip of the mom in this movie. Here we go.

[Paul Shear]

Richard.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Angela.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, here you are.

[Paul Shear]

Look what I did. I packed you and your cousin some goodies for the ride up to camp. Wasn't that nice of me?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Any chips? Why, of course.

[Paul Shear]

I believe there's a whole bag.

[June Diane Raphael]

I'm almost sure of it.

[Paul Shear]

So, Angela, isn't there anything special my.

[June Diane Raphael]

Little girl would care for? So basically, you see the acting in this. It's not even, like, bad community theater. It's like bad high school production from an adult. Was she making a choice?

[Paul Shear]

She was making a choice. And a final one at that.

[June Diane Raphael]

I thought, she's talking as if there are no one there, because she's.

[Paul Shear]

The character is insane. That's.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That is true. The character has gone insane. Because in the cold open, which you started to talk about in the cold open, we see a father and two children on a little, like, sailboat in.

[June Diane Raphael]

The middle of the lake, having a great day across.

[Paul Shear]

Just across from the sleepaway camp.

[Zach Perlman]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And they're like, oh, they're having so much fun. And then it cuts to two campers. A man, a counselor boy, and a young girl in a speedboat.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Paul Shear]

With a water skier.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

With a water skier. The water skier gives one of the best performances of the movie.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's amazing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The water skier gives an unfathomably good performance in this cold oven. Okay, so basically what happens is the sailboat flips over. The kids and the dad are in the water, and they've gotta swim to shore.

[Paul Shear]

Well, the sailboat flips over. One of the kids throws the dad.

[Zach Perlman]

Out of the sailboat, and then dad calls them schemers.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes, you schemers.

[Paul Shear]

Schemers. But it's still all in goodness.

[June Diane Raphael]

But by the way, the dad is on the edge of a very small boat, no longer than, like, five feet, and. And the kids are able to sneak up behind him without him noticing and then just lightly tap him into the water. I mean, it's the most. It's the worst scheme ever.

[Zach Perlman]

He does, like, a Chevy Chase fall off the boat.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They are a real couple of schemers.

[Paul Shear]

So then the schemers and the dad are in the water together. The boat flips over. I don't know why.

[Zach Perlman]

Yeah, that's so weird.

[Paul Shear]

Don't know why. Then there's another man.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Paul Shear]

On the dock.

[Zach Perlman]

That guy is the best.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That is just foreshadowing.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Paul Shear]

Okay. Who says, this is where I had some questions. He says the doc is on the way. Yeah, that doc is on the way.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Doctor, the Doctor.

[June Diane Raphael]

Doctor.

[Zach Perlman]

As we establish later, the mother is a doctor through the wonderful line of. Even though everyone knows I'm a doctor.

[June Diane Raphael]

Because the mother is giving the kids their own physical. Oh, my gosh.

[Paul Shear]

Okay, then what happens is this.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, I just put that together.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That the doctor is the mother.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. The mom. When she. The mother gives the kids.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I get it now.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And he's basically warning the dad because of what we learn later. He's warning it, saying, your wife is coming back.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Paul Shear]

Got it now. Oh, you guys. So that was his wife. That was his wife.

[June Diane Raphael]

No.

[Zach Perlman]

Yes, that was the man. That was the man in on the beach's wife.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, yeah. That was the man on the beach's wife.

[Zach Perlman]

Those two. As. I mean, like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, I don't want to give. No, no, no, no. The man on the boat is their dad.

[June Diane Raphael]

Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That is their wife. The man on shore, spoiler alert. Is the. The dad's lover.

[Zach Perlman]

No. No.

[June Diane Raphael]

What?

[Zach Perlman]

Is the dad lover?

[June Diane Raphael]

No, because that's her cousin. That the kids are.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, okay, okay. Let's just break this down without. Okay, because.

[June Diane Raphael]

Without spoiling the end, because we got to.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We're dancing around.

[June Diane Raphael]

We got to walk to the end.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is my understanding of the movie. Okay.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Father and son and daughter are in the sailboat. Father's lover. A man is on the shore.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's saying, hurry back to shore. Your wife is coming. The doctor. Yes, your wife is coming. So he's like, oh, we gotta go in. Okay, that's where it's wrong.

[June Diane Raphael]

This is why. Oh, and that's where you're wrong. That's where you're wrong.

[Paul Shear]

Real husband right there is where you're wrong.

[June Diane Raphael]

Because the mother that we met, the creepy mom, that's Angela's cousin.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Nope. Aunt. Nope. It's Angela's mother.

[June Diane Raphael]

I thought Ricky's mother. Ricky is her cousin.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Ricky is her cousin.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's what I'm saying. So Ricky is her cousin. So that's her aunt. No, no.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, guys. Because at the end, guys, that's the misdirect. You're missing the misdirect. That's the misdirect. Okay, can we talk about the ending? Okay, no, I guess we gotta say. Wait a second.

[June Diane Raphael]

Wait a second.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wait a second.

[June Diane Raphael]

This is coming.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, wait a. Angela. Angela is the daughter of the crazy woman.

[Zach Perlman]

No, Ricky. Ricky is the son of the crazy woman.

[June Diane Raphael]

Right.

[Zach Perlman]

And then the gay lover is that woman's husband.

[Paul Shear]

Wait, say that again. Now say it again.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I cannot deal with this.

[June Diane Raphael]

But wait, no, because Ricky And Angela.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Why does she make.

[Zach Perlman]

Okay, okay, here's the reason.

[June Diane Raphael]

She's getting them to live with them.

[Zach Perlman]

Because she already has Ricky. That's why she's Angela.

[June Diane Raphael]

Right.

[Zach Perlman]

Does that make sense?

[Paul Shear]

Say that again, Zach, slowly.

[June Diane Raphael]

No, I'm with this.

[Zach Perlman]

Okay, so this is the setup. We have the father and two children on the boat.

[Paul Shear]

Can we just reveal the ending? Because I'm getting confused.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

All right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

All right.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, basically. All right. It's so good. And we're pulling it. We're all right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, well, we don't. I mean, I do.

[June Diane Raphael]

Can you.

[Paul Shear]

Okay, fine.

[Zach Perlman]

I guess without explaining the ending to this, I can give you a pretty good. Okay, so we open on two. Two children and their father.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Zach Perlman]

And without everything else that happens. His gay lover is on the shore. Shore, yeah. And his wife is coming.

[Paul Shear]

His gay lover's wife.

[Zach Perlman]

His gay. The gay lover's wife. The man who's on the shore.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay.

[Zach Perlman]

His wife is coming to meet them with their child.

[June Diane Raphael]

I'm gonna say this.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Whoa, whoa. Then where is the dad's wife?

[Paul Shear]

It doesn't. It doesn't matter.

[June Diane Raphael]

But basically, this is.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, come on.

[June Diane Raphael]

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And the surviving child would go to the mother.

[Paul Shear]

They're divorced.

[June Diane Raphael]

She's dead.

[Zach Perlman]

She's dead.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, they would explain them. They're going to such lengths to explain her mom.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's not her mom. It's definitely not her mom.

[Paul Shear]

She's introduced to her. Unless your theory is this, which I'm gonna posit because it is possible. Okay, here's a possible theory, which is the mother was originally totally normal because of the. If this is their mother. Okay? If this is Angela's mother, the doctor. Their mother was completely normal until this horrible, horrific accident happened in which her husband and one of her kids was killed.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Correct.

[Paul Shear]

However, the problem with that theory is that we see a scene later on at the end of the movie where one of her children is introduced to her. So she must be so bonkers.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, this. This. Okay, this is. Oh, my God. Guys. So my understanding of the movie is framed like this.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, my God.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Because of the accident. Okay.

[Paul Shear]

Fuck.

[June Diane Raphael]

If you have not watched this movie, you need you to stop listening right now. Watch it now.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Going to talk about the ending.

[Paul Shear]

It's on YouTube. Just watch.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We have to watch this.

[June Diane Raphael]

I mean, we have not even talked about any of the movie yet.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, I feel like. Table this discussion.

[June Diane Raphael]

Table this discussion.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Because my understanding of the movie basically, is that the mother has, like, a psychological breakdown and with her surviving child makes a decision that is. That provides the insanity that leads to the rest of the movie. And that the little boy is normal visitor. He is the cousin that is taking her to camp.

[June Diane Raphael]

No, because he calls her the normal visitor. Ricky calls and goes, that's my mom. Yeah, like he said.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, he does, doesn't he?

[Zach Perlman]

And also that explanation is if they had a scriptwriter. Yes, that's like if it was a good movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You're saying that Angela goes to just happens to go to live with an insane person?

[Zach Perlman]

Yes, it's because it's the only living relative.

[June Diane Raphael]

The only living relative.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, that's crazy.

[Paul Shear]

But she's not her relative, you guys. She's not her relative.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Guys, this is crazy.

[Zach Perlman]

But you're acting like you haven't seen the movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, no, no. But there is such an easier explanation. It's such an easier explanation that the insanity that happens to Angela is because of the accident.

[June Diane Raphael]

I hear.

[Zach Perlman]

I agree with that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The accident is insane. And then you're telling me she also then happens to go to live with a next level insane person.

[Paul Shear]

All right, I think what I'm hearing is this. She would have had to go insane not just because her husband and child died, but also because she found out there that the guy on the. The guy that her husband was sleeping with on the land was so emotionally distraught that his lover died, that she then also found out that her husband was gay.

[June Diane Raphael]

Here we go. It's revealed that Angela survived and is now living with her eccentric and aunt, Dr. Martha Thomas and cousin Ricky Thomas. Right. All right, so there we go.

[Zach Perlman]

I didn't even know they had last names.

[June Diane Raphael]

We have to get into this movie because we can break in. There's so many things breaking before this amazing ending.

[Paul Shear]

Wait, guys. I just thought of something else, though.

[June Diane Raphael]

Wait.

[Paul Shear]

Oh, brother. Okay, so the guy on the land and the guy in the boat. Lovers, but they might also have been brothers.

[Zach Perlman]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, there is tons of weird brothers and stuff in this movie.

[Zach Perlman]

Brothers in law.

[Paul Shear]

How do you know that, though?

[Zach Perlman]

Because it's. It's the.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wait, no, but the lover isn't killed like the lover. The male. The man on the shore is alive.

[June Diane Raphael]

He wouldn't get that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So we never see him again. So he would be married to the crazy mother in theory, right?

[Zach Perlman]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, but we never see him again. So the presumption is. My presumption is that he's just a male. Like a male lover for the father he is unrelated to. He's not married to the doctor. I don't think so. That would be.

[June Diane Raphael]

We don't know all the relationships, but there's so much good stuff to break into.

[Paul Shear]

He could have been married to her.

[June Diane Raphael]

This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online, whether you're starting out or growing your business. I love Squarespace. Okay, we are going on tour and I was able to update all my websites. Dinosaur Improv. How did this get made? Paul Shear with the click of a button. Now Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid. You can showcase consultations, events and more with customizable websites that are built to attract clients and grow your business. And let me tell you, they are now allowing you to get paid faster with professional invoices and easy online. That's right. I have never had such a good looking website. Okay, Squarespace is the only space that you need to be in if you have a business space. That's not a line from them, that's a line from me. And that's why I don't work in ad copy. Check out squarespace.com bonkers for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use the offer code bonkers to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

[Joel Kim Booster]

Hey guys. Joel Kim Booster here with a very exciting announcement that I am the newest host of the podcast Bad Dates. I am so excited to be here and sharing all the wildest, most chaotic and iconic bad date stories with you. I'll be joined by friends like Peppermint, Scott Thompson, Casey Wilson, Ron Funches, and MJ Rodriguez and we'll hear all about their most notorious bad dates. It'll make you laugh, cry, cringe, and.

[June Diane Raphael]

Maybe make you feel a little better.

[Joel Kim Booster]

About your own dating life. You don't want to miss it. Listen to Bad Dates by subscribing to Sirius XM Podcast plus on Apple Podcasts or listening wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

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[June Diane Raphael]

All right, so the movie opens with a a boating accident. They're back. Remember when we started Talking about this. We're still 10 minutes ago. The there's a water skiing, There's a water skiing couple.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

There's no more difficult movie in our history to try and unravel.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, I think I applaud us for staying away from the ending just for this moment. Cause I feel like if you are not gonna watch this movie, which you definitely should, gotta watch it. I feel like we should walk you into the ending. So there is a water skiing thing going on. The kids are in the water with the dad. The water skiers decapitate the father and the son, I guess.

[Zach Perlman]

Wait, no, no.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

A child. A child and a father. A child and the father are killed.

[June Diane Raphael]

And leaving one child alive.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Zach Perlman]

Right.

[June Diane Raphael]

And then that's how. That's the cold open of the movie. A senseless decapitation via jet ski or water ski.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wait, do you see a headless body?

[June Diane Raphael]

No, you actually don't. You just see the body float by.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The dad's body and then the child's life preserver. By the way, this life vest.

[June Diane Raphael]

This movie employs one of the best things I've ever seen, which is the reaction shot. The screaming reaction shot. It goes like, cut to someone screaming. Cut to a dead body. Cut to someone screaming, dead body.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And every time the screamer is the water skier. Did you pull that by any chance?

[June Diane Raphael]

No, because it just as if somebody's screaming. I.

[Paul Shear]

Because here's the thing. Her scream. Now it's really the person on the boat's fault.

[June Diane Raphael]

Who?

[Paul Shear]

You know, there's a camper who's on the boat. I'm sorry, we're still talking about the first two minutes of the movie. But there's a camper on the boat.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Literally the first two minutes of the movie. It is so good though.

[Paul Shear]

But the camper, she wants to take the wheel from the counselor. So she takes control. And she's for whatever reason, looking back at the water skier.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Both of them apparently are. Because the water skier's the only person who sees that they're headed towards a boat.

[Paul Shear]

Right. But the water skier's reaction in the water once she realizes horrible, horrific death has occurred is like, she's done it. I mean, she's taking responsibility for it.

[June Diane Raphael]

Somebody help them. Somebody help those people.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And then they cut to the two kids in the boat who are arguably responsible.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And they are just stone faced, like sitting there like, what happened?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. We don't know. We just ran over a human being.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And a boat jumped our boat over their boat.

[June Diane Raphael]

Not surprised. I personally.

[Paul Shear]

The water skier killed them. No, no, of course not.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But she's the only person. The water skier spot, she dropped off.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, the watercress. Like, you're going to run into that person. And they're like, ah, shut up.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They're going, what's she saying?

[Zach Perlman]

Saying.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And she's screaming, there's a boat. And they're saying, what's she saying?

[Zach Perlman]

And then it cuts to the gay lover and he goes, tommy, this whole.

[June Diane Raphael]

Movie is about bad reflexes, too. No one can swim fast enough. Everyone is. It's like speed, too. Something is coming at them like, oh, I'm gonna stay frozen. The boat is coming. That guy could have survived. He could have swum to the left, to the right. All right, so that's right. We meet the creepy mom. These kids go to sleepaway camp. We get to camp, it's full of pedophiles, angry camp counselors. Angry, angry camp counselors.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, my God. The first. The first scene of the kids arriving at camp is they're all, like, running by.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And the. The guy, the pedophile camp counselor goes. He's like, licking his lips and looking at all the young, like, young kids. And he goes, where I call him. Where I come from, we call them baldies. Makes your mouth water looking at it.

[Paul Shear]

Wait, I missed this line.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He says, we call them baldies because they don't have no hair on their. They don't have pubic hair yet. He says, where I come from, we call him Baldies.

[June Diane Raphael]

Where does he come from? And can I visit?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That guy is instantaneously like. I was like, whoa, this just got crazy Rapey, by the way.

[June Diane Raphael]

Not even crazy rapey. That's a weird thing to reveal to a group of people. Like, hey, I'm gonna fucking fuck a young kid this summer.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm a child master. He reveals to, like, six people that are standing there.

[Zach Perlman]

And one of the people just goes, ah, that's him.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Zach Perlman]

He just laughs it off.

[June Diane Raphael]

By the way, it just goes to show you, you cannot trust the kitchen staff, because the same kind of thing in Sucker Punch is the same guy who runs the kitchen, likes to rape young girls. That's it. They put them in the kitchen.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's a theme. It's a real theme.

[Zach Perlman]

I feel like that's my wheelhouse. 20 years from now, I'm just gonna.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Be doing just like, rapey, rapey, rapey, creepy adults.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, June pointed out a very special celebrity guest star in the. In the K. James Earl Jones's dad, Robert Earl Jones. He plays Ben. Yep.

[Zach Perlman]

By the way, his Name is Ben.

[Paul Shear]

How are you remembering all these names?

[Zach Perlman]

Because it's so insane.

[June Diane Raphael]

Robert Earl Jones played.

[Paul Shear]

I noticed his name in the credits and I thought that's a coincidence. But then when I heard his voice. He has James Earl Jones's voice and looks a lot like him.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's crazy.

[June Diane Raphael]

And more crazy is that he would name his kid the same middle name as him. Like it's. It's not like it's. You have to go like Earl Jones. Yeah. What? Anyway, so that's Robert Earl Jones. We see it. We meet our amazing camp owner who is just smoking a cigar. They smoke in front of these kids non stop. In the 80s, it was good to smoke. Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's not just smoke, but like talk and be like so lascivious and sexual.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, and I guess I appreciate that. You know, I guess I appreciate like the forthrightness with which like all the kids swear like a blue streak. Like in that way that like do.

[June Diane Raphael]

A way that I haven't heard it on film before.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But that's the thing is like in the 80s, like bad news Bears or Meatballs or those movies like kids swore. Like we as kids swore. You know what I mean? And it just doesn't exist anymore. Like a movie with kids now you would never hear like a 13 year old.

[June Diane Raphael]

Fuck you, you fucking cocking. It's so many F bombs. And from little kids, we should also point out, and this is a very important thing, when we meet Angela eight years later after the accident, she doesn't speak. We haven't heard her speak.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We also have to say sleepaway camp happens eight years after the accident. Which we haven't said.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes, yes. They don't really let you know how long it has been. So they, you know, they're. They're at camp. People immediately hate Angela because she doesn't speak at all.

[Paul Shear]

And she just sort of blinks.

[June Diane Raphael]

She doesn't even blink.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She knows. She stares vacantly. She seems to be like a real weirdo.

[Zach Perlman]

I feel like they give her mushrooms because she has no like pupil versus, like eye color. It's just black.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, you don't. You don't know what's wrong with her. Is she catatonic? Does she have no emotions? But then, guess what? A couple scenes in. She starts talking up a storm as.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

A boy flirts with her.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. Like nothing. Like nothing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The movie, the movie is also. Which I also liked is like singularly obsessed with people with kids getting laid.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, it's just again, like that 80s way of like all movies. Like, like, like the sure Thing and that, that, that Tom Cruise movie where they're. Everybody, they're trying to lose their virginity. No, they're trying the first one.

[June Diane Raphael]

I know what you're talking about.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, they're all obsessed with getting laid and Judy got tits and blah, blah, blah.

[June Diane Raphael]

I also like when the kid runs up to Ricky, he was like, hey, Ricky, man, oh man, you gotta see Judy. She's got some big tits or whatever. And then. And Ricky's like, he says to, you know, he says to his cousin, he's like, we went steady. It's almost like. It's like. He's like. It's so cool.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Ricky is like the playboy. He's like the badass of the camp.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah, but he hasn't. He is considered one of the little kids. Wait a second.

[June Diane Raphael]

I just realized something crazy. Is this the first year that Angela has lived with Ricky? Because if eight years have passed, where was Angela?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Why hasn't she been going to camp with him?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Zach Perlman]

Oh my God.

[June Diane Raphael]

All right, well, we'll get again. That makes no sense.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, I mean, I'm looking at the Wikipedia and you're right. Angela is the cousin of Ricky and his years. There is eight years pass. Because when I saw that mom, I was like, this mom is crazy because of the exact. But now it is not that she is just a crazy person.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Paul Shear]

Although looking, thinking about the mom again, I'm starting to think she actually might have been a man at one point.

[Zach Perlman]

Really?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, no, no. That the mom is the gay lover. But then how do you explain Ricky?

[June Diane Raphael]

Wait a second.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

How do you explain Ricky?

[June Diane Raphael]

No, no, no, no.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Ricky is her son. Right?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. Desiree Gould, played by a real actress. Her name is Desiree.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, no, no, I know.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, wait a minute. Oh, okay. Alright. Well, all right. We can get. We can. Oh, Desiree Gould. All right, so we can get. Let's get into it. I want to hold off on one more second before. Because I think the end is gonna open up all these things.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, Wikipedia does. Okay. Yeah.

[Paul Shear]

Well, the first death that happens is the one of the cooks. The guy who makes that comment about baldies attempts to rape Angela.

[Zach Perlman]

Oh yeah.

[Paul Shear]

Like instantly, very quickly.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He is like, like, he's like, oh, you want some food?

[Paul Shear]

I'll.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Why don't you come back into the pantry? And then starts like unbuckling his pants. He's like, I'll give you something to snack on or whatever.

[Paul Shear]

He says, it's so upsetting. And then Ricky finds Angela, grabs her and runs out. And then the cook punches a box of tomatoes.

[June Diane Raphael]

A huge box of tomatoes.

[Paul Shear]

A huge box of tomatoes. Then Angela comes back later on. Or the killer comes back later on.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And spoiler alert.

[Paul Shear]

Huge spoiler alert. I'm obsessed with this scene because the cook is salting an enormous pot of boiling water.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, first he says, by the way, they don't make pots boiling. It's like a huge. It's like a 55 gallon drum of boiling water. He goes, is it boiling? And he goes, oh, it is like, so that we understand. It's boiling water.

[Paul Shear]

It's boiling water.

[Zach Perlman]

And he says that a girl.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, he does say that a girl.

[Zach Perlman]

That a girl.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That a girl. To the water that is boiling.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. Oh, we've gotta toss the water out.

[Zach Perlman]

My favorite part is how angry that guy gets at the drop of a hat. He's out of salt. Fuck this salt.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, that's it. Everyone. Everyone there is on the border of just freaking out. Yeah, that makes everybody a suspect.

[Paul Shear]

So he gets on a stepladder. This is my question.

[June Diane Raphael]

No, no. The pot is so large.

[Paul Shear]

Sorry, a chair.

[June Diane Raphael]

The pot is so large that he must stand on a chair to pour the salt in.

[Paul Shear]

Salt it out.

[June Diane Raphael]

Now, meanwhile, how much salt would you have to put? Like, I know you put a little bit of salt in a pot of boiling water.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's a. Paul, I'm so glad you asked, because this, our passion being that how did this get made, Turns into a cooking show.

[June Diane Raphael]

We know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, the question we don't know is what's he preparing the water for?

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, I would assume it was corn because he had all that corn on the side.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Put a significant amount of salt in there.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, I thought that was interesting. For those of you keeping notes in the cooking part of the show, it was very interesting.

[Paul Shear]

So he's standing on a chair salting this water for days.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And I mean, listen, that's a lot of sodium. These kids. This is at a time when we didn't understand the dangers of salt.

[Paul Shear]

And I also think, by the way, that that's why he has a few pounds to lose, because he's been over salting his food. He's been over salting dairy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He has really high cholesterol.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah, he's salting. He's putting a lot. He's very heavy on the salt.

[Zach Perlman]

Big guy.

[Paul Shear]

So then the killer comes in and.

[June Diane Raphael]

We see a pair of hands coming up, hands outstretched, like first person.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Now the camera is first person. We are the killer's pov.

[Paul Shear]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Which was killer Cam.

[Zach Perlman]

Killer cam. The best part of every single death in this movie is the way everyone goes, oh, it's you. Unbelievable.

[June Diane Raphael]

I put together a clip. Yeah.

[Paul Shear]

I'm obsessed with how he dies, though, because what happens is he realizes who the killer is. He tells her to.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He tells the. I mean, you're just spoiling who the killer is.

[June Diane Raphael]

He. Well, basically.

[Paul Shear]

You didn't even say it.

[June Diane Raphael]

You didn't even.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

By using a gendered pronoun, you didn't even.

[June Diane Raphael]

The biggest thing was the kid. Just keep on moving the kid. The kid pushes his butt. Reminiscent of the father who also got his butt pushed in the opening scene.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And then I'm certain that is not meant to be a thematic reference.

[Paul Shear]

In a body of water.

[June Diane Raphael]

In a body of water. And then the guy's just frantically holding onto his shelf. Now, meanwhile, he's like about a foot off the ground at any point. He could go any which way, but he's holding on like he's holding onto the side of a building. All right, help me over this thing. He is in no physical danger whatsoever at all.

[Zach Perlman]

And instead of being like, stop it. He's like, I'll offer you some. I'll get you an ice cream sandwich. Like, trying.

[Paul Shear]

No. When he finds he could fall any which way.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But lose.

[Paul Shear]

So he falls in such a way that he grabs the 50 pound pot of boiling water, I guess, and pours.

[June Diane Raphael]

It all over himself, burning him to ridiculous. Again, a yelling scene.

[Zach Perlman]

This yelling scene, if you actually go through the math of the yelling scene, and I have it written down because he. It cuts from him yelling in the same position to him gauzed, same position, still yelling.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Zach Perlman]

If you think about how long it would take for someone to call the ambulance because people just stand around when.

[June Diane Raphael]

They see people get no cell phones.

[Zach Perlman]

Ben walks in and he's just like, oh. And he's just watching this guy scream, boiling his face. If you think about it, if you think about a camp that's removed from a city, how long it would take police officers and an ambulance to get there. That man was sitting there for an hour and a half, screaming in the same position.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, I would also want to add to that, too. Not only did the ambulance get there, and not only did the ambulance get there, but then a doctor got there and they did a lot of work in the kitchen. Because when you see him being removed from the kitchen, he's still screaming, but is totally gauzed out. Like, that would be something that they would do in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. The doctor was like, you know what? I'm gonna set up shop here.

[Paul Shear]

There's a lot of fly traps hanging around here.

[June Diane Raphael]

So weird. And the doctor. They literally say to the doctor, were his eyeballs burned? He goes, it's too soon to tell. Too soon to tell. You would definitely tell if his eyeballs were burned.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And is that. Is that. Are they asking. Why do you ask if his eyeballs are burned?

[Zach Perlman]

Because he just. Like, his main thing is.

[Paul Shear]

That was weird because I guess it was children. I know, but if it was. If it was the chef that was badly burned, I think the first question you'd probably ask is, are his hands okay?

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, not when it's a pedo chef. Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Their concern is mainly their concern. The guy that runs the camp's concern is like, get him out of here. Don't tell anybody. We still need to make dinner. James Earl Jones's dad, can you be the cook? And he's like, I guess so.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, that's it. Camp goes on as normal.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, camp goes on as normal. That's the thing that's shocking to me is it's not until, like, six deaths in.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That the guy that runs the camp seems a little bit.

[June Diane Raphael]

And he's not even suspicious. He's just kind of like, oh, all right, we'll combine the camps and we'll just. We'll make it smaller.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And we. Because he keeps being like, kid. People aren't gonna send their kids to camp if they know about all these deaths.

[Paul Shear]

How much money do you think the camp is bringing in every summer from these kids?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is a great question because it seems like, what are the. What are the economic finance. This is another great. How did this get made? Pocket. What are the economic finances of the business that is part of the movie?

[June Diane Raphael]

How did this go?

[Joel Kim Booster]

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[June Diane Raphael]

Maybe make you feel a little better.

[Joel Kim Booster]

About your own dating life. You don't want to miss it. Listen to Bad Dates by subscribing to SiriusXM Podcast plus on Apple Podcasts or listening wherever you get your podcasts.

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[June Diane Raphael]

Last episode, you guys, we were talking about the finances of Camp Arawak.

[Paul Shear]

I think they're making Camp owner seems like he's gonna lose. I guess if you're a camp owner. I don't know. It just seems like he's gonna lose millions if this camp gets shut down. By the way, he's so concerned.

[Zach Perlman]

He smokes his livelihood and only millionaires smokes cigars in the.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's true.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He wears black socks up to his knees. With shorts.

[June Diane Raphael]

With shorts.

[Paul Shear]

By the way, we'll find out later on. He's also fucking the children of.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's also asked on a date. She's a counselor, but that's to be fair, she's a coun.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's a little less agreeable.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's not Meg. Is it Meg?

[Zach Perlman]

Yes, it's Meg.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's Meg. And Meg is into it. She's like, he is like a Milton Berle looking old man.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And she is like, I got a date tonight.

[June Diane Raphael]

I got a hot date.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What? You are dating.

[Paul Shear]

Like, she asks him on a date, but he's already asked her on a date.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. She says, remember when you said. Remember when you said you wanted. How about that dinner you said you wanted? And he's like, whoa, sure. Come on.

[June Diane Raphael]

The man was born in 1922. This movie was in 1983. Just to give you an idea of how old he was. That's the age difference that we're talking about. And of course, Meg, the beautiful Meg was born in. Let's see, they don't say when she was born.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She's a teenager. She's maybe 16.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah, she's 16 years old. And she's psyched about this.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. And is, you know, probably like to me, Meg is the real bully of the girl. Meg and Judy are the bullyers.

[Paul Shear]

Judy's so Judy's a very dark character.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Judy, Judy is a bitch, but Meg is the muscle. Meg is the one that throws Angela in the water.

[Paul Shear]

That's interesting. Judy's more like psychological.

[Zach Perlman]

By the way, I like that Judy has a shirt that says Judy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I love that.

[Paul Shear]

I love Judy's hair. I've never seen her side pony.

[Zach Perlman]

Side pony? To the.

[June Diane Raphael]

Just FYI, if you have not seen this movie, chances are you have because it is almost a. You could see now that wet hot American summer directly parodied this movie.

[Zach Perlman]

I mean there are even scenes that heavyweights stole from the this movie.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's crazy.

[Zach Perlman]

It's crazy.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's. I mean like characters are dressed the same in wet hot as they are at sleep wake camp, the side pony, all that sort of stuff. It looks identical too. I asked Ken Marino last night, I emailed him because there was like a kind of like a weightlifting kind of Jewish guy who was like the voice of reason at the camp. I go, did you base your character on this? He goes, yeah, part that guy and part a guy in meatballs. So that was the impetus to Ken's character. Alright, so the second murder happens in a boating accident. This kid is flirting with a girl, wants her to see the water snake, which would be his dick in the water. Flips over the boat.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She's her over the boat to get.

[June Diane Raphael]

Her into the water so he can show her his water snake to get.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Her into the water. Mix it up a little.

[June Diane Raphael]

Hey, there's a hard water snake here that needs to crawl into your DRO parts.

[Paul Shear]

Difficult to float in the water. Like what was he planning on doing there? I'm serious. Cause his feet, their feet weren't touching the ground.

[June Diane Raphael]

Hey look, this is 83. People were fucking at all interested in that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

People could do anything.

[June Diane Raphael]

But yeah, so now this kid is now trapped. He just decides to hang out underneath the canoe that he flipped.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's high on drugs, by the way. He's high on drugs.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, is he high on drugs?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, he and the other kid are high on drugs now.

[Paul Shear]

By the way though, what did he do to the killer to get her so upset?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He was making to get the killer so upset.

[Paul Shear]

That's what he said you said to.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Get her so upset.

[Paul Shear]

No, I said the killer.

[June Diane Raphael]

Either way, we don't know. The killer could be male or female at this point.

[Zach Perlman]

He Said the killer to get him. He said, what did he do to.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The killer to get her so upset?

[June Diane Raphael]

Please go see this movie. Do not wait for our amazing reveal of this.

[Paul Shear]

I can't do this. I can't do it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We gotta just get to the ending because it's going to be so good.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's so good. So he's now high on drugs, singing a song in the boat. Now I.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's alone.

[June Diane Raphael]

He's alone now. I played this, I put two clips back to back because it is what happens when everybody sees the killer. So these are two clips of people seeing the killer. Here we go.

[Zach Perlman]

What the hell are you doing here? I bet the rest of the boys will be interested in seeing you.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's. That's number one. Here's another killing one. It's you.

[Paul Shear]

Who do you want?

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, then she gets knocked out. So they always are saying, you. I knew it was you.

[Zach Perlman]

Do you think? I can't imagine being 14 and seeing this for the first time being like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, God, wait a minute, wait a minute. I didn't realize. I'm sorry, I didn't realize that Judy was killed by having a hot curling iron stuck into her vagina.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, June pointed that out. I thought it was being burned, but June's like, no, it's going into her vagina.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Zach Perlman]

You can tell.

[Paul Shear]

Of course it is.

[Zach Perlman]

Because it's.

[Paul Shear]

Of course it is.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Zach Perlman]

Like in the shadow.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's like being.

[Paul Shear]

How did you think she was killed?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Just like burning.

[June Diane Raphael]

I don't know. You told me.

[Paul Shear]

So that was the only way for Judy to die.

[Zach Perlman]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

By getting a curling iron in the vj.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Absolutely.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, that was. And by the way, would that kill you?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, no.

[June Diane Raphael]

Burn your vagina.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Vagina into uselessness.

[June Diane Raphael]

But it would not kill you.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It would certainly not kill you. Yeah, no, no. You would just like melt your vagina. Wait a second.

[June Diane Raphael]

Could there be a sequel to this movie where we see Judy with a burned vagina?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

There are three sequels to this movie.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, you know what, guys? I actually know the answer to my own question. There was a short film released on sleepawaycamptv.com it's called Judy's Return. So you can follow the 16 minute return story of Judy as an adult. And I haven't seen it, nor probably will I, but you can see how her burn vagina does in the future.

[Paul Shear]

Judy's a real sad character. I think what Judy admires, like Judy and Angela have an interesting relationship because I think in so many ways, Judy would like to be more Like Angela.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Why do you say that?

[Zach Perlman]

Because Angela is innocent. Yeah, that's it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think Judy sees a little bit of her old self in Angela and has become last summer self. Last summer's self now that she's got sprouted his tits.

[Paul Shear]

Well, by the way, that's crazy. Cause that scene where that guy rejects her a little bit. I mean, not even that much. She goes nuts. Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

I also feel like everyone in this movie though, like they hate Angela because she's a mute some of the time. By the way. She's a mute some of the time. Some of the times she's a totally well adjusted girl. It goes back and forth.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I don't know if I would say well adjusted. She just talks.

[June Diane Raphael]

She talks, but in a way that's like kind of. She doesn't, doesn't. It's not like the mom. It's not overly creepy. It's like a girl. It's normal.

[Paul Shear]

I have a really important question for when we get to the ending.

[June Diane Raphael]

And so, all right, so basically. But all the kids like will grab her and go, how come you're so fucked up? Like, goddammit, answer me. And they shake her.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They're always like shaking her because she doesn't talk. It throws people into rages.

[Paul Shear]

Well, they project all of their own fears and insecurities onto her.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, when that kid was killed in the boat, even the camp counselor in the morning is like, oh God damn it, look at all these chairs. He's like throwing chairs around. And then he just uncovers a dead body that's so decomposed in less than.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like what, five hours within from late night until early morning. The body is. Is mangled, right?

[Paul Shear]

That's not decomposition.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's not decomposition, but it's either. It's water snakes.

[June Diane Raphael]

A water snake does climb out of the water. Oh yes.

[Zach Perlman]

Oh my God, that was hilarious.

[June Diane Raphael]

What, you think the water snakes ate him?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I thought he was beat to death or something.

[June Diane Raphael]

No, no, that was just his body being drowned.

[Zach Perlman]

Oh no, it's snapping turtles.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh yeah, he did.

[Zach Perlman]

This is snapping turtles.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This movie is so stupid.

[Zach Perlman]

There are literally maybe like eight times I said to myself, I keep thinking in my head, this is the part of the movie where nothing makes sense. It's just like the entire film.

[June Diane Raphael]

It makes. Well, okay, well, by the way, so the kid is dead. We have. Then there's the police come to kind of inform him that there could have been an accident. This is the accident debate here.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Listen, as far as I can tell, the boy drowned. Of course we'll have to wait for the medical examiner to check him over before we can be certain.

[June Diane Raphael]

Of course he drowned. He was horsing around.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

A canoe tipped over.

[June Diane Raphael]

He must have hit his head.

[Paul Shear]

I don't think so. Weren't any bumps or bruises when I checked, though.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Again, I'm no expert on this matter. It was obviously an accident. I mean, the boy might have got scared and panicked. Right.

[June Diane Raphael]

That could be a logical explanation. So it was one of those fluke.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Accidents we could not have foreseen.

[June Diane Raphael]

And that is all there is to it?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I don't know. It was an accident.

[June Diane Raphael]

So that is. That is the camp counselor trying. Or the head of the camp just.

[Paul Shear]

Trying to justify he's smoking a cigar during that scene?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

I'm not technically. Man, that guy is the best, that security guard.

[Paul Shear]

Can we move ahead to Meg's death?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, sure.

[Paul Shear]

Okay. So, Meg, this is the most improbable death. This is the craziest death.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

Meg is getting ready for a hot date with old fuck action camp counselor there, Megan.

[Zach Perlman]

Mel.

[Paul Shear]

Meg and Mel.

[June Diane Raphael]

Meg and mel hearts forever. 16 and 60.

[Paul Shear]

16 and 60.

[Zach Perlman]

That's a new MTV show.

[Paul Shear]

So she's taking a shower.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She's surrounded by, like, handsome men her own age. Yeah.

[Paul Shear]

Oh, yeah.

[Zach Perlman]

And even handsome men closer to her age.

[Paul Shear]

So she takes a shower in a different bunk because all the girls are using up the shower into hers. And she's, by the way, singing the craziest song in that shower.

[Zach Perlman]

But not even singing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, humming.

[Zach Perlman]

These entire time.

[Paul Shear]

She's like, he hummed. Hum, hum, hum.

[June Diane Raphael]

Hum, hum, hum.

[Paul Shear]

He hum, hum, hum.

[Zach Perlman]

It's just, like, looking weird.

[Paul Shear]

Maddening. With a huge smile on her face. Then all of a sudden, she leans back on the shower so her back is against the wall. And the killer stabs through the wall and stabs her from her neck down to her ass.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Paul Shear]

In half, pretty much, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Now, at no point in feeling the knife go into her back does Meg step forward in order to avoid the knife destroying her. She stays firmly with her back against.

[Paul Shear]

The wall, feet planted.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Feet planted so that the knife can continue to wreak havoc with her back area.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's almost like someone's scratching it. And she likes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And she's like, oh, yeah, get it.

[June Diane Raphael]

She like. Yeah. She really edges that knife into her.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, man.

[June Diane Raphael]

And so she dies and presumably stays in such a precarious position that her body. Until Mel comes to find her. Much later in the movie, Mel walks into her room. She's been dead now for arguably a Couple hours. Right, A couple hours. But the minute he walks into the room, she falls into frame. So she was hanging so precariously that he didn't even move a curtain. He doesn't do anything. She just kind of enters. Enters the scene. They could have made that scene so much easier if he just moved the shower curtain and she fell out. Nope. She just falls to the ground.

[Paul Shear]

So weird. So do you think the knife was holding onto her back and in the wall at the same time?

[Zach Perlman]

Remember, she takes the knife out of the cleanses.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah. So she was just standing up. A dead person standing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Standing against the wall.

[June Diane Raphael]

Holy.

[Zach Perlman]

The wind shifted.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Absolute nonsense.

[Paul Shear]

All right.

[Zach Perlman]

Honestly, that speech he gives, which had to have been improv, when he sees me totally improvised, is unbelievable.

[June Diane Raphael]

I do have that as well. I'll play it. It's a little hard to hear because the music is so overpowering, but it's worth trying to hear here. Go. Oh, my God. I'm too mad. He did. They had him.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I let him go.

[June Diane Raphael]

I'll stop him. Gotta stop.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You won't get away, right?

[June Diane Raphael]

Never get away from me again. And as he's talking, he's talking with his, like, finger at his. Like. Like. Like, almost like. Like a stereotype of an Italian man. Like, hey, I'm gonna make him a cup of cool. You're never gonna forget. It's like he's, like, presenting this information like this. Oh, my God.

[Zach Perlman]

I love that. All of the times where he wasn't talking, it. It would cut back to the back of a body.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Zach Perlman]

And it wasn't like. It was like, oh, something else has happened to this body. It's the same shot.

[Paul Shear]

Nope.

[June Diane Raphael]

Same. And no blood at all. No blood out of there. I guess the blood was drained out. Oh, my God. By the way, I want to just talk about one line. That was pretty great. Hey, man, eat shit and die, Ricky. Hey, eat shit and live. Bill. That was one of the classic.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And all the other kids were like.

[June Diane Raphael]

Ooh, that was a great comeback. So a bunch of other camp counselors die or kids die, but let's gets.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Killed with the bees.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Zach Perlman]

Wicked dump.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is amazing. The amazing. That's it. You have her in that. So read it. Cause I don't have any.

[Zach Perlman]

It's. It's. I'll be right there, guys. But first I gotta take a wicked dump.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's a line in this movie that an actor memorized and then said and takes a magazine into the bathroom where the killer, the genderless killer, reaches in and puts a beehive by the way.

[June Diane Raphael]

Another slow ass reaction. First knife's out the screen on the window. Takes a while and the guy doesn't. We never see the guy in the stall. We only see his feet. It's hey, who the hell is that? Continues to take his wicked shit. Does not look around. And then someone that puts a. Puts a beehive on a stick and puts it in there.

[Paul Shear]

And then it looked like an old timey hobo stick.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

A bindle. It definitely looks like a bindle.

[Zach Perlman]

My problem, my only problem with that scene was they put a very thin broomstick to stop from getting out. We start on a pretty large gap between the floor and the top of the door. Just get out of there. Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And that beehive, like at the end when you see all of the bees on his. On his dead body. That beehive contained thousands and thousands of bees.

[June Diane Raphael]

His body looks so eaten alive. It was as if you locked him in a beehive, in an actual beehive for days. But this is like two minutes later. He is the same thing with the boiling water. It's like his body was like boiled alive.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Holy shit.

[June Diane Raphael]

And that was after the amazing water balloon scene, which our main character, Angela gets a water balloon and goes down like. She was like John F. Kennedy shot like, you motherfucker. And these kids are playing with water balloons on the roof of a cabin. Just all on a roof, all fighting on a roof.

[Zach Perlman]

Ricky. Ricky's outbursts.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, yeah.

[Zach Perlman]

I can't imagine where the headspace he had to go to.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, that's why I think in your mind you're supposed to think like, is it Ricky? Is it Angela? We don't know who the killer is.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

Because Ricky is.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He is so aggressive, so angry and so overprotective. And even Mel is like, why are you even Mel suspects him at a certain point. He's like, why are you always protecting her? Why is you. You did it. I saw you by the. By the thing or whatever. And like Mel is like accusing Ricky of doing it. The thing I wanted to talk about was at a certain point Angela gets a little boyfriend. Paul. Yes, Paul starts to like Angela. And they're holding hands after movie night and then he kisses her.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, this is the best thing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Behind the bunk. She's like, where are we going? And he's like, I just want to show you something. I just want to show you something. And then they go behind the bunk and he like plants like the meekest little kiss on her and she.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And she's like, I have to go inside. I have to go inside now.

[Paul Shear]

I mean.

[June Diane Raphael]

But this is. But this is the time where she has a fight.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But she does like him.

[June Diane Raphael]

But she does, like.

[Paul Shear]

That's what I want to get to.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But this is the.

[Paul Shear]

That's what I want to get to.

[June Diane Raphael]

But this is the flashback, right, where she literally.

[Zach Perlman]

It says, smash cut to gay sex.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. Cutting to these two men. And, like, I don't know if that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is where you find out that the man on the shore was the gay lover. We didn't know this. We should have said that at the beginning.

[June Diane Raphael]

We.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I didn't think he was the gay. That the two men were gay lovers. In the cold open.

[June Diane Raphael]

No way.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

In this scene, which appears to take place in a black box.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's like that episode of Family Ties. That's what I was gonna say where Alex's friend dies and he has to go to therapy. It's like a community.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's like a Brechtian production of something where it's a black box. And the two little kids, now they're back to being little kids, are looking at the dad and the man, like, bone zoning.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. Just doing it. But they also are bone zoning. Like a thing. It was a very.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It was tender. It was tender. They were touching each other's faces in a tender way.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And then the two little kids, they weren't ramming. And then that dissolves to the two kids, the little boy and the little girl in bed, like, touching each other. Like, the men were touching each other.

[June Diane Raphael]

But not even trying.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Don't they touch each other's faces or whatever?

[Zach Perlman]

It's like E.T.

[June Diane Raphael]

It'S like E.T.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He'S poking her tit.

[June Diane Raphael]

He's like his finger is just going slowly at her, but it never touches her. And it's super creepy. And the camera's, like, rotating around their bed. It's like, what the fuck am I watching?

[Paul Shear]

Well, but that wasn't. I don't think we were supposed to take away that they were.

[June Diane Raphael]

She was slowly molested by her brother.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That was definitely incest.

[June Diane Raphael]

It was definitely incest.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Total incest.

[June Diane Raphael]

Total incest.

[Zach Perlman]

It's like an underlining theme in the entire.

[Paul Shear]

You guys. That's not true.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. That's why they showed that scene.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, why do you see.

[Paul Shear]

The reason why they showed that scene was that we see the boy pointing to her, which is why we're thinking she's the killer. Angela's the killer.

[June Diane Raphael]

Cause he's pointing at her. No, no, no, no.

[Paul Shear]

What the guy was thinking about what the fuck. The fuck are you talking about?

[Zach Perlman]

There are three people who are going, no. And one person is going, yes.

[Paul Shear]

That was not an incest scene.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It was an incest scene.

[Zach Perlman]

It was so incestual.

[June Diane Raphael]

It was.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It was total incest. He's poking her tin. He's like, point. He's like. Basically, it keeps dissolving. It keeps dissolving to. His feet are getting closer and closer and closer to her. It's like. That is like something sexy at her.

[Paul Shear]

Like you.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, he's like getting closer and closer. Like, I'm gonna touch this. I'm gonna do this.

[June Diane Raphael]

It was so. It was like they just saw sex and now they were gonna.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's exactly what it was. Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

All right, so now we're getting to. Let's just get to. Let's get to the meat of this fucking movie, literally. So the whole movie is pretty much predicated on an amazing five minute ending sequence. So Angela decides that after she's been upset with this boy, she's gonna finally take him to the bone zone.

[Paul Shear]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

And. And we cut to a flashback. Anyone can take. Who wants to describe this scene? We cut to a flashback of the creepy mom that we established in the beginning also. Oh, yeah, go ahead. Or do you have anyone to go before.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, you know, that's fine. That's fine. Well, what. Okay, what happens is a bunch of people are killed.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And then all the people are running around chaos. And they run down and they find Angela and Paul naked on the beach.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay, that's very tender.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. Angela is humming and cradling Paul. Right. And they come across her and like her back is to the people and she's naked.

[June Diane Raphael]

Then you dissolve into this flashback and it's Aunt Martha. And Aunt Martha again on a Brechtian.

[Zach Perlman]

Set.

[June Diane Raphael]

Starts doing this thing we see. It's like right after the accident, child's come to view.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The surviving child has like a head cast on or something.

[Zach Perlman]

Yeah, that's the funniest part, is like, that doesn't exist in any world.

[June Diane Raphael]

No, I have the dialogue here that I can read. So it cuts into this. Oh, you're gonna enjoy living with us so much. Yes, I know you are. As a welcome home present, I bought you such a wonderful new clothes. I hope that Richard doesn't get jealous that I didn't get him anything. Oh, but then he's such a dear. I'm sure he won't mind. You see, I've always wanted a little girl. But of course, when my husband left. Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge. As I always say. Water under the bridge. But it certainly will be a nice surprise when Richard comes home to find a little girl in his house. Yes. I've always dreamt of a little girl just like you. That's the monologue. We find out that Angela is actually the son.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The little boy survived.

[June Diane Raphael]

The little boy survived, not the girl.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And the mother raises the little boy, whose name was Peter.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

As Angela, who she says, because it's from the angels.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And then you cut back to camp. Present day camp. Angela gets up Paul's head, decapitated head, rolls off of her lap. She's holding a knife, Screams this crazy blood curdling scream. Turns around to face everybody and has a tiny dick. And that is bonkers.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's how the movie ends. Angela is the brother. Holy shit. It's crazy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That monologue though, actually, when you read it, answers a lot of my outstanding questions.

[Paul Shear]

Okay, so from that monologue we're to understand that the man on the beach was her husband.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, no.

[Zach Perlman]

Left.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. Thank you.

[Zach Perlman]

Zack left.

[Paul Shear]

Yes. But was her husband. But left her.

[Zach Perlman]

Left her for the guy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So. Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

By the way, the guy on the beach was married to Martha, you're saying?

[Zach Perlman]

Yeah, I think so.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, so wait a second.

[Zach Perlman]

So you're saying the doc is coming, right? He's not gonna be like, my wife is coming.

[Paul Shear]

Got it.

[June Diane Raphael]

The doc is coming.

[Zach Perlman]

Fucking.

[Paul Shear]

What's her name, the doc.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Cause I really want to understand this. So you're telling me that Martha, Aunt Martha and dude on the beach.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Were married. Let's just call him Gary and Gary. Aunt Martha and Gary were married. Okay. And then dad of Peter and Angela, dad of two little kids. Angela being the boy. Peter. Peter slash. Angela and little boy.

[Zach Perlman]

Little girl.

[Paul Shear]

Little girl.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Little girl. Sorry. Little girl. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

[Zach Perlman]

Guy on boat.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Guy on boat with kids. So he was presumably married to somebody, right?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They are gay lovers, right?

[Zach Perlman]

Yes, yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Are they?

[June Diane Raphael]

But I don't think they're my brother.

[Paul Shear]

But the kids.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She is their aunt. She is their aunt.

[June Diane Raphael]

Wait a second. I figured it out. The guy on the boat with the two kids and the guy on land. Gary. They are related.

[Paul Shear]

That's what.

[June Diane Raphael]

And it was incest. Yeah. So it's incest. So that's why she gets custody. Cause she is the aunt of that little girl. Boy.

[Zach Perlman]

I think she is the. I think it is incest in the sense that it's like through law.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's. Oh, yeah, that. I think that. Yeah, I'm with that. Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So maybe. So maybe the Martha and. Maybe Martha and the kids. Mothers were sisters, right? And these two men married these two sisters, but decided to bone zone each other. But they were not related except by marriage.

[June Diane Raphael]

Because. Because that's how the kids caught them. The two little kids were, like, at a summer house when they had some sort of family. And that's when they saw the men having sex in the bed.

[Paul Shear]

We're to understand then that when the doc is arriving at the summer home, she also has Ricky in tow. Which they never mention.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, they never mention Ricky.

[June Diane Raphael]

By the way, I do think that we were wrong on one thing. This did not take place. The boating accident did not take place in front of the camp. Even though it would lead you to believe. Cause the camera pans off the camp. It did.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It totally did.

[June Diane Raphael]

It did.

[Paul Shear]

It had to.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

100%.

[June Diane Raphael]

All right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Or a camp. I thought those kids came from a camp.

[Zach Perlman]

Yeah, I mean, like, even goes like he was like, I don't want to lose my job. But.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay, all right, maybe you're right. Okay. It's gotta be.

[Paul Shear]

And that's why she starts to go crazy when she's back at the camp.

[Zach Perlman]

Back at the camp. The water, it's just terrible.

[Paul Shear]

Too much.

[Zach Perlman]

It's too much for her.

[Paul Shear]

All right, so also to understand, though, that Angela Peter is a gay boy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, she's been raised as a girl, so probably has a crush on Paul because of.

[June Diane Raphael]

Cause he's a guy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's a guy paying attention to her. But I'm sure feels that's why the kiss is so. She reacts to the kiss. So weird.

[Paul Shear]

And that's also why she won't get in the shower.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's also why she won't get in the shower.

[Zach Perlman]

Right. I think she's just an asexual murderer.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

See, Wikipedia just says.

[Paul Shear]

That's interesting.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wikipedia says the man on the shore is just his lover. That's all it says about that.

[Zach Perlman]

But it says, the doc is coming.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, the doctor's coming.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, why would the doctor be coming to the beach?

[Zach Perlman]

It's just.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Because the doctor is the aunt of the kids.

[Paul Shear]

So just unrelated. The doctor.

[Zach Perlman]

Unrelated. The doctors coming. Unrelated. He's like, you have to get out of the water. The doctor is coming.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Maybe it's your sister's coming. He could have said your sister.

[June Diane Raphael]

No, he said the doc.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, no, I know, but he could have said, your sister's coming. Your sister's. You know, like, somebody's coming. Hurry up.

[June Diane Raphael]

Get to shore.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We have to cover up all our gay stuff.

[June Diane Raphael]

I don't know.

[Zach Perlman]

Did you guys notice that cop at the end had the worst fake mustache?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, the worst fake mustache I've ever seen.

[Zach Perlman]

I mean, like that was bought in a prop stat.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Worse than Eric Bana's beard and Hannah.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, again, if you go on the idea that this is a real camp that made a movie over a summer, it was not that bad. I do want to talk about the spirit finger death. Every time people get killed in this movie, their hands kind of go up like they're in spirit fingers. Like. Like they just go really wide and back and forth. Cause they only show it through shadow.

[Paul Shear]

Do you think though that we're to understand that Ricky. Does Ricky know that Angela's a dude?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That is a terrific question.

[June Diane Raphael]

No way. No way.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Because the mother does. He'll be so happy to have a little sister.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So the presumption being.

[June Diane Raphael]

But the mom said.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, mom is going to tell him it's a little girl.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Zach Perlman]

Oh, is that why he's so protected? He's like, it's my sister's. My girl sister.

[June Diane Raphael]

I do want to just clarify one thing here. Do you know who was supposed to originally play the part of Angela? Jane Krakowski.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No way. Where did you see that?

[June Diane Raphael]

On IMDb. Apparently she dropped out at the. At the end.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's fucking crazy.

[June Diane Raphael]

And the movie was indeed dedicated to the director's mother. Those are two things. Just answering those questions. Since we know a real doer.

[Paul Shear]

Can you imagine if that movie was dedicated to you by your child?

[Zach Perlman]

I'd be like, what did I do?

[Paul Shear]

I have not done. I have not done.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I will say this. People should 100% watch this movie. It's on YouTube in its entirety.

[June Diane Raphael]

In its entirety. It's amazing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And even if you're not going to to watch the movie, watch the last 10 minutes.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, you have to. I think the payoff only works with the full maybe.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, maybe.

[June Diane Raphael]

I will tell you also. A new film, Return to Sleepaway Camp, was completed in 2003 and initially struggled to find distribution. It was directed by the same guy of the original. He decided this chapter would ignore the storylines of the previous sequels, stating he wanted to pick up where the original film ended. According to Fangoria, the digital effects were redone in 2008 and the film finally found distribution and was released in 2008. And basically it is. If you want to follow the story, it's called Return to Sleep With.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I just would like to add something to this okay, that movie, you're correct, is a sequel that the director made. But in the 80s, another director made two sequels called Sleepaway Camp 2 Unhappy Campers and Sleepaway Camp 3, Teenage Wasteland. In them, Angela, now played by Bruce Springsteen's younger sister, Pamela Springsteen, resurfaces at a nearby sleepaway camp, but this time masquerading as a counselor after a sex change that made her entirely female. Then there's a fourth. There's another sequel called Sleepaway Camp 4 the Survivor, directed by a whole different person, which was partially filmed and never released. This is all Wikipedia.

[Zach Perlman]

Can I just bring up how Paul pitches himself as the best friend ever? He's like. He's like, yeah, me and Ricky hung out all like, we're best friends.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Zach Perlman]

These are the shenanigans we got into last year. And she's just, like, thoroughly impressed to the point where she's like, that's great. And that's her first line.

[Paul Shear]

Yep. First line. She speaks like, 45 minutes into it, and it's. But by the way, that's. I think the really big question that remains is why didn't she go to camp before?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What was she doing being a boy? I mean, like, just probably the mom probably didn't want to.

[Zach Perlman]

Oh, she couldn't do the physical.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, but the mom did the physical. That explains why the mom did the physical, too.

[June Diane Raphael]

Guys, by the way, I'm looking, I'm reading the whole plot summary for Return to Sleepaway Camp. It looks like everyone had returned. Ricky returns, Ronnie returns. Every surviving victim returns many years later to find the real killer. Oh, that would be the real killer.

[Zach Perlman]

It wasn't Angela.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, I think maybe Angela's coming back. Maybe it's like Psycho, too. Obviously, we had an opinion about this movie, but it is now time for a second opinion. These are five star reviews culled from Amazon. I can't even decide which ones to read here because they're so good. Ben Conrad writes, plot, characterization, screenwriting, or acting might be the conventional criteria that most film buffs use for grading a movie's greatness. I used to believe that too, until I saw Sleepaway Camp. After that, I drew a new template for my own evaluation.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Amazing.

[June Diane Raphael]

Based solely on sheer audacity, this movie is poorly written, poorly acted, and it ends if someone just slammed the brakes on a tractor trailer that was leisurely cruising at 200 miles an hour. This movie stops, and you're never the same again. Five stars.

[Paul Shear]

That's true.

[June Diane Raphael]

This is my favorite one from Christina Rusta. Oh, actually not My favorite one. Second favorite one. I gotta say, when I first watched.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sorry, I need to know the hierarchy.

[June Diane Raphael]

Second favorite. Not as good as my final favorite. I gotta say when I first watched this movie, I was around four years old and I had nightmares for a week over the last shot. Now when I watch it, by the.

[Paul Shear]

Way, nobody remembers their nightmare from 4 years old.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's insane. Maybe if you saw a dick out there like that and a headless kid. Now when I watch it, being 24 as of 2009, I think it's pretty good. And it would be. And it's a really good past the time kind of movie. What does that mean, past the time? My brother owns this movie and we watch it when we order pizza.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, for a brother and sister to watch this movie over pizza is really weird.

[June Diane Raphael]

Something you'll want to have said. I watched Sleepaway Camp. Great movie. Five stars.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's something you will. That is the weirdest thing I want to say. I've watched Sleepaway Camp. I just haven't been able to say it yet.

[June Diane Raphael]

Great movie. I watched Sleepaway Camp. That's part of the whole quote. That's not like I watched Sleep. So it's like you want to have said this.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's amazing.

[June Diane Raphael]

This is written by. It's titled A kid's review. Honestly, I don't know what people are thinking when they call this movie bad or dumb. The people who call horror movies funny, that's a sure way to tell that they're bluffing. Don't listen to those people. Okay? This is a wonderful slasher flick. I will not give a detailed synopsis for do not want to ruin it to you. I will tell you that you are in for quite a scare. The killings are nothing short of spectacular. The characters are somewhat likable. The ending is so scary that when I first watch it, I let out some strange noise, not quite a scream, maybe a moan of terror and I ran out of the room. My mother said I look like I saw a ghost and I told her I had seen something worse. Watch this movie with a dog. Or if you think.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wait, what?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yep. Or if you think you can handle it. I barely can now. I just that love that scared feeling. That's why I like well made horror films. Watch it alone with a dog. Be warned, you will be scared, I guarantee it. If you are not scared, then I am nothing but a wimp. This will invoke fear in you, be it slight, which I highly doubt. There are some tough hearted people out there. Like war veterans lol what?

[Zach Perlman]

Wait, no, that was a joke. That was a joke.

[June Diane Raphael]

I still watch this movie and it scares me. By the way, I'm not a kid. I just forgot my password. I'm 17 and I live in Brooklyn, New York. So, you know, it's not some eight year old in the middle of nowhere who gets spooked by the Halloween episodes of South Park. Have fun being scared.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Holy cow.

[June Diane Raphael]

That is one of those.

[Zach Perlman]

That was as well written as the script.

[June Diane Raphael]

Someone also just said, this is better than anything that Kubrick has done.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh my God, that's great.

[June Diane Raphael]

Anything that we did not talk about that is worth mentioning, we've covered it. Definitely watch it. It's on YouTube. Big thanks to Zach Perlman, whose show the Inbetweeners airs on Monday nights on mtv. It's a really funny show and you can follow you on Twitter, right?

[Zach Perlman]

Yeah, Ackpurlman.

[June Diane Raphael]

And it's with the ch, right? CK ck.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, I'm glad we clarified that.

[June Diane Raphael]

Jason, still not on Twitter?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Nope.

[June Diane Raphael]

June, what do you want to plug?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I don't know.

[Paul Shear]

Icy Icee's Ice Pops.

[June Diane Raphael]

Thank you to everybody who listens to the show. Thank you to everybody at Earwolf. Thank you, Cody, for our engineer for the day. Thank you so much. We'll see you next time. Bye. Bye. Happy Halloween.

[Joel Kim Booster]

Hey, guys. Joel Kim Booster here with a very exciting announcement that I am the newest host of the podcast Bad Dates. I am so excited to be here and sharing all the wild, most chaotic and iconic bad date stories with you. I'll be joined by friends like Peppermint, Scott Thompson, Casey Wilson, Ron Funches and MJ Rodriguez, and we'll hear all about their most notorious bad dates. It'll make you laugh, cry, cringe, and.

[June Diane Raphael]

Maybe make you feel a little better.

[Joel Kim Booster]

About your own dating life. You don't want to miss it. Listen to Bad dates by subscribing to SiriusXM podcast plus on Apple podcast Podcasts or listening wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's the big sale of the year.

[Zach Perlman]

At All Modern, a Wayfair specialty brand.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

October 26th through the 29th. Save up to 70% off Modern furniture and decor, plus fast and free shipping. Shop the big sale of the [e-mail].