The Number 23 (HDTGM Matinee)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Number 23 (HDTGM Matinee)"

Episode Title: The Number 23 (HDTGM Matinee)
Release Date: February 25, 2025
Podcast: How Did This Get Made?
Hosts: Paul Scheer, June Diane Raphael, Jason Mantzoukas
Description: In this special matinee episode, the hosts delve deep into Jim Carrey's enigmatic thriller, The Number 23. Known for celebrating the quirks of bad movies, Paul, June, and Jason dissect every confusing plot twist, numerical conspiracy, and character anomaly the film offers.

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1. Introduction to "The Number 23"

Paul Scheer opens the discussion by highlighting the interconnectedness and isolation in today's world, segueing into how certain moments, like in The Number 23, push characters toward a more human experience. The hosts quickly transition from a quirky advertisement parody to the main topic.

Paul Scheer [00:25]: "This podcast is dropping on February 23, 2023. That's 2, 23. 23. 2320 threes."

June Diane Raphael humorously points out the obsession with the number 23, setting the tone for their deep dive.

June Diane Raphael [00:25]: "It's human."

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2. Plot Breakdown and Initial Reactions

Paul provides a synopsis of the film, introducing Jim Carrey's character, Walter Sparrow, a dog catcher who becomes obsessed with a book titled The Number 23, leading him into the labyrinth of the 23 enigma.

Paul Scheer [02:34]: "Today we are talking about a classic Jim Carrey thriller. The number 23 came out in 2007..."

Jason initially mistakes the movie for an Ace Ventura-style film, highlighting the confusion surrounding the plot.

Jason Mantzoukas [03:12]: "Oh, yeah, did you forget? This movie starts with being Ace Ventura and talking to animals."

June Diane Raphael criticizes the movie's mathematical logic, emphasizing its convoluted nature.

June Diane Raphael [04:24]: "The crazy thing is like listening to you say that though, Paul..."

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3. The 23 Enigma Explored

Paul delves into the real-life conspiracy theory behind the number 23, linking various historical and cultural references to illustrate its supposed significance.

Paul Scheer [05:07]: "Human sex cells have 23 chromosomes. Other human cells have 46 arranged in 23 pairs."

Jason draws parallels between the movie's themes and broader societal conspiracy theories, expressing skepticism.

Jason Mantzoukas [08:12]: "It feels like... this movie makes more sense than, like, QAnon nonsense."

June Diane Raphael questions the validity of attributing meaning to the number 23, suggesting that any number can be manipulated to fit patterns.

June Diane Raphael [07:56]: "I mean, you can make so many numbers work if you do enough kind of. If you're backing into 23..."

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4. Character Analysis and Plot Inconsistencies

The hosts critique the film's characters, particularly Jim Carrey's portrayal of a protagonist with conflicting traits—being a dog catcher who despises dogs while maintaining a seemingly happy family life.

June Diane Raphael [12:01]: "Right. So now I know the... It's like a dog catcher who hates dogs..."

Paul highlights the film's confusing narrative structure, where multiple identities and timelines overlap without clear resolution.

Paul Scheer [12:24]: "It's like layers on layers on layers of... nothing."

Jason expresses frustration over the lack of coherent storytelling, drawing comparisons to other films with strong plot reveals.

Jason Mantzoukas [14:03]: "This movie makes more sense than... feels like the X Files."

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5. Thematic Elements and Symbolism

The discussion turns to the symbolic use of colors and numbers, particularly the recurring motif of red and its association with the supernatural or malevolent forces.

Paul Scheer [16:24]: "They keep on going, oh, no, you're being crazy..."

June Diane Raphael speculates on the possible demonic influences within the film, questioning character motivations and supernatural elements.

June Diane Raphael [10:19]: "23 is a killer number and the devil's number."

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6. Critical Reception and Audience Reviews

Paul reads out five-star reviews from platforms like Amazon and Letterboxd, humorously undermining their credibility due to their simplistic praise.

Paul Scheer [72:16]: "A title is solid movie. Jim Carrey made a good movie. But there is one flaw only..."

June Diane Raphael cynically interprets five stars as a combination of two and three stars, highlighting the disconnect between critical acclaim and actual film quality.

June Diane Raphael [72:41]: "You know what five stars is? Two stars and three stars put together."

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7. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The hosts wrap up their analysis by reiterating the film's lack of coherence and satisfying conclusions. They express a mixture of bafflement and amusement over the movie's attempts to weave complex conspiracy theories with an otherwise disjointed narrative.

Jason Mantzoukas [73:52]: "It feels like they're all with the same level of intent as like, let's go play Pokemon Go together."

Paul summarizes his frustration, comparing the film unfavorably to other well-executed thrillers.

Paul Scheer [77:35]: "It's like top secret. Because it's also like, it's not a top secret that he's like, top secrets is not that."

June Diane Raphael admits to feeling unsettled by the movie's unresolved threads and perplexing storyline.

June Diane Raphael [77:42]: "I really don't feel well. I really don't."

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Key Takeaways

• Convoluted Plot: The Number 23 attempts to intertwine numerical conspiracy with personal tragedy but falls short in delivering a coherent and satisfying narrative.

• Numerology Obsession: The film's fixation on the number 23 serves as both a thematic element and a narrative crutch, leading to strained believability.

• Character Contradictions: Jim Carrey's character exhibits conflicting traits that undermine audience connection and character development.

• Unresolved Symbolism: The use of colors, especially red, and characters like the dog remain ambiguously symbolic, leaving viewers questioning their true significance.

• Critical Disparity: Despite some positive reviews, the hosts collectively view the film as a misguided attempt at a thriller, hampered by poor execution and lack of clear direction.

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Notable Quotes:

• Paul Scheer [02:34]: "This is where how did this get made? Let's wallow in the mediocrity of subpar art."

• June Diane Raphael [04:24]: "If you're a doubter... yet, if you do enough, you can make any number work."

• Jason Mantzoukas [08:12]: "This movie makes more sense than, like, QAnon nonsense."

• Paul Scheer [77:46]: "And we're deep in Madsen, she was great."

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Conclusion:
In this matinee episode, How Did This Get Made? hosts Paul Scheer, June Diane Raphael, and Jason Mantzoukas provide a thorough, albeit critical, examination of The Number 23. Their analysis uncovers the film's ambitious yet flawed attempt to blend psychological thriller elements with numerological conspiracies. While the movie garners some superficial praise, the hosts remain unimpressed by its execution and narrative coherence, ultimately questioning how such a convoluted film found its way to the screen.

Transcript

[Paul Scheer]

Every day, our world gets a little more connected, but a little further apart. But then there are moments that remind us to be more human.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Thank you for calling Amica Insurance.

[Paul Scheer]

Hey, I was just in an accident. Don't worry, we'll get you taken care of. At Ameca, we understand that looking out for each other isn't new or groundbreaking.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's human.

[Paul Scheer]

Amica Empathy is our best policy. Sometimes you have to choose between a great deal or a great experience. Other prepaid providers stick you with slow networks and price hikes. But with US Cellular Prepaid, getting a great deal doesn't mean sacrificing a great experience. US Cellular Prepaid offers great nationwide 5G coverage without any gimmicks or hidden fees. And now you can get a free Samsung Galaxy A16.5G to make a great experience. Even better, stay connected without making sacrifices. Terms apply. Visit uscellular.com for details. Get the Angel Reese special at McDonald's. Now, let's break it down. My favorite barbecue sauce, American cheese, crispy bacon, pickles, onions, and a sesame seed bun, of course. And don't forget the fries and the drinks. Sound good. I participate in restaurants for a limited time. This podcast is dropping on February 23, 2023. That's 2, 23. 23. 2320 threes. June Diane Rayfield shear is 23 digits if you include the hyphen and her husband's last name. Her birthday is 0104 1980, which adds up to 23. Jeffrey character readies adds up to 24, but if you misspell it as Jeffrey with 1F character wheaties, it is 23. This podcast is hosted by Tall John Shear, and if you assign the corresponding number in the Alphabet to his name, you get 21, 12, 12, 10, 15, 8, 14, 19, 3, 8, 5, 5, 18. If you add those all up, you get 69, which if you divide by the number of names, tall John Shear, 3, you get 23. But did you see the 69? We saw the number 23, so you know what that means. Now it's time for how did this repay? Let's wallow in the mediocrity of subpar art.

[June Diane Raphael]

Perhaps we'll find the answer to the.

[Paul Scheer]

Question, how did this get made? Hello, people of Earth, conspiracy theorists unite. Today we are talking about a classic Jim Carrey thriller. The number 23 came out in 2007, and if you've not seen this film, the plot is going to be a little bit tricky to break down, but I'm gonna try two weeks in a row but basically, we are following Walter Sparrow, played by Jim Carrey, who works as a dog catcher, who comes to find a book titled the Number.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yeah, did you forget? This movie starts with being Ace Ventura and talking to animals.

[June Diane Raphael]

Got that?

[Paul Scheer]

So this dog catcher comes to find a book called the number 23, which sends him down the rabbit hole of the 23 enigma, which is a real conspiracy theory. I'm gonna just play a quick clip to show you exactly how that comes into play. The Titanic sank on the morning of April 15, 1912. That's 4151912. 23. The Hiroshima bomb was dropped at 8, 15. 8 plus 15 is 23. The Mayans said the end of the world would come in 2012. 21. 2 equals 23. Go ahead, tell yourself it's just a number. And then a larger mystery unravels. Did Jim Carrey's character actually write the book? How much does his wife know? Is there a larger conspiracy? The answer is yes, as long as you. You don't think about any of the answers. To break this all down, I am bringing in my two and three co hosts. My 23 co hosts.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What?

[Paul Scheer]

Jason Man Zoukas and June Diane Rayfield. Wow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow, wow, wow, wow. We're like. This is like the X Files. We're like. We're solving cases. This is a mystery.

[June Diane Raphael]

The crazy thing is like listening to you say that though, Paul, you listening to your intro. Like, your math that you did was way more complicated than the math that is done over and over throughout the course of this movie. It's literally the most of the dialogue is simple math of just like one. One plus two equals three and three plus two is five, and five minus two is three and 32 is 23.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And also, like. And your last name is is. Is sheer and is 14 and 14 plus 9. You know, every. They're. They're assigning numerical value to colors, names, words, all 23.

[June Diane Raphael]

Red is. Is a little less than. Because it's white. And so then now red is pink and pink is 23. And 32 is also 23, 14.

[Paul Scheer]

But if you add the 1 and the 4, you get 5. But if. Then if you take the 5 and you look at 5, 5, it's 2 and 3 together. 23.

[June Diane Raphael]

I truly felt insane after this was over. I will say I felt mad.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You said something in the intro, Paul, that blew my mind. That there is. There is. This is based on real conspiracy theories around the number 23.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes. This is a real thing. And by the way, this is such A real thing that Jim Carrey named his production company JC23 because he is obsessed with the number 23.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Why did you decide to do this project?

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I was kind of obsessed with the number 23 for years, you know. Yeah. I had a friend who passed it on to me like a virus and. And it just entered my life big time. It's everywhere. And even though I was born at 2:30 in the morning, my daughter's born at 12:11, it just kept going on.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And on and on in my life.

[Paul Scheer]

So I changed the name of my company, the JC23, because somebody came up with a book that was about the 23rd song. And he said, does this have anything.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

To do with the 23 thing?

[Paul Scheer]

Man.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay, now this is all starting to click into place. Yeah, now I'm starting to.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, so this is. This is it. Like, this is Jim Carrey's big thing. JC23 Entertainment is his production company. And they. They're.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Holy shit now.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay. Because as I was watching this, I was like, yeah, is that Jesus Christ?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I was just the opposite of Jesus.

[June Diane Raphael]

Christ, which 2 times 3 is 6.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

23 plus 10 disciples is 33, which is the age Jesus Christ was when he died.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, and this is where. I mean, this is, by the way, this thing, it can go so long. William S. Burroughs was the first person to really believe in 23 as the Enigma.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, a totally normal man.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes. So he.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Totally normal. The author of Naked Lunch.

[Paul Scheer]

And then. And then all of a sudden you start to see it in all these different things. I'll just read you a couple more because I know we've given you a million examples, but. Norman, Human sex cells have 23 chromosomes. Other human cells have 46 arrange in 23 pairs. The Earth, the Earth's axis is tilted at 23. Musical acts with connections to number 23. Tool Blink 182. Like, they're all these, like. 23 is an album.

[June Diane Raphael]

The same for any. I mean, this is like. This is. What I don't understand is you can make so many numbers work if you do enough kind of. If you're backing into 23. I mean, couldn't we do that with any number?

[Paul Scheer]

Well, yeah. I mean, honestly, I feel like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Here's what I'll say. It feels crazy, as absurd as it is and as I agree with you, June, as crazy making as it sounds. What year, Paul, did you say this came out? 2007.

[Paul Scheer]

2007.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So in 2007, this must have felt like. This is preposterous. Eye Roll City. Right? We live in a culture in a society now where the conspiracy theories that a huge amount of the population like, participate in and believe in are so much more ridiculous than this. This makes. This movie makes more sense than, like, QAnon nonsense.

[June Diane Raphael]

I actually thought, like, was this the beginning of Q?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, my God. Is Jim Carrey Q?

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I'm going to tell you, there's a lot of people who love this movie, and I got to tell you that there are. Oh, yes. Because they are conspiracy theory nuts. And by the way, if you listen to the show, we are. We are right behind you. We support you 100%.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But are you willing to commit? Are we just doing numero. Is this numerology February? I mean, are we doing. Are we next week? Are we doing the lucky number 11?

[Paul Scheer]

The. I just have to say that this is a perfect example of these types of movies where somebody just has enough power to get their own weird idea out. And it's like, if I can just get this to the masses, like. Because this really does feel like.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, that's the thing, Paul. Here's my genuine question. Yeah, okay. Because at the end of the movie, I felt insane. I was like, put me in an institution, please. But I am genuinely asking at the end of the movie, is the story that Jim Carrey is insane or that the number 23 is actually coming for him?

[Paul Scheer]

It's been. It chased his father both and then both.

[June Diane Raphael]

So it's coming for him, and so it made him crazy. But I guess that's what I'm saying is that the movie sort of affirms that 23 is a. A is a killer number and the devil's number.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Much like Jim Carrey. Walter Swallow was infected by Swallow.

[June Diane Raphael]

Sparrow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sparrow. Sparrow. Sorry, sorry. They're both birds. Sorry, sorry. A sparrow.

[Paul Scheer]

And that's not to be confused with his detective name, the Great Jesus, or his wife.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Fingerling.

[Paul Scheer]

Fingerling, Fingerling.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like the potatoes. I could not get past the potato.

[June Diane Raphael]

Or his pseudonym.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, his pseudonym is. This is the best one. The pseudonym is my favorite part because when you say it out loud, it gets really great. Top Secrets. AKA Top Secrets.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Top Secrets.

[June Diane Raphael]

I laughed Top Secrets hard at the reveal of Top Secrets Secrets.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Topsy Krets Secrets.

[June Diane Raphael]

Top Secrets.

[Paul Scheer]

Top Secrets. Topsy Kratz is the author. Top Secrets is the author of the book that Jim Carrey the dog catcher finds. Now, here's what I'll say. When this movie first started, this is in this era of sad Jim Carrey, like, depressed Jim Carrey Like a little bit after Eternal Sunshine. He's got the long hair and he looks to me like he's a FedEx guy, right? Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's got this long hair and he's got it styled in a way that is like from guys in 2007, which is flat down on his head, kind of matted down. Even though, like, he looks like. Okay, anyway, it doesn't matter. They give. When they give him flashbacks in the movie, the young actor playing young Jim Carrey, some 20 some odd years in the past, has the exact same haircut.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, I was like.

[June Diane Raphael]

Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I was like, why did they give the kid that's in the late 60s, a 2007 haircut?

[Paul Scheer]

I have a feeling that that was a miscommunication from the director, Joel Schumacher, to the. The hair and makeup team. I mean, it was. It is.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm worried they're not going to know this is a flashback and it's young Jim Carrey make him look exactly the same.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, at that point, we're not even supposed to think he's young Jim Carrey. We're supposed to think this is a young, top secret.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, that's right. It's young top secrets. That's right. Because there's flashback inside of the fantasy sequences. This movie is like layers on layers on layers of. Of nothing. Frankly, the. The movie makes. The movie is a zero. Like, it adds up to. Not like in numerology senses or numerical senses. The whole movie is. Is times zero, so it ends up zero.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I will say this. When you meet him, Jim Carrey, I was like, what is this movie going to be about? It's going to be about, like a sad man who finds something in this number 23. But then this reveal of him, like in a truck, looking miserable, depressed, and then it's like a comical decal on the side that's like, you know, he's an animal. You know, dog. He's a dog catcher, essentially. Dog catcher. He's like, he hates animals.

[June Diane Raphael]

I don't know how they ever expected us to get on board with a character that hates dogs. Like, hates dogs and calls them evil dead dogs and wants to catch them. And the first. The first moment, I was like, how I want. I was so angry at this character and I was so appalled at the treatment of these animals. It was so strange. I'm like. And looking back on the movie, to be quite honest, Ned the dog, I don't know why. Why was Ned there? Why did he have to hate dogs? That cute little dog you almost ran him over.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, the dog essentially brought him into his first experience of death. Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean the, the movie is like the movie. I feel like, can't decide if it's supernatural or not.

[Paul Scheer]

Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

If there's actual. Because, you know, like there's this element of like, oh, is the dog kind of provoking him into this journey of self discovery and remembering and uncovering his. His memories and stuff. Because the dog bites him, he chases the dog and the dog goes right to the gravestone of the woman that he killed.

[Paul Scheer]

Right. And then also later on we see the dog with this man, this very intimidating man.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. Is. Who's that?

[Paul Scheer]

Is that revealed in the very last seconds? I think that that might have been the devil. If it's. If, if. Okay, here's my theory. The largest day. I think it's like the number 23 is the killer in this movie. And it will always find you. It will make you appear to be insane, but you're basically just carrying out the will of the number 23. And the number 23 is the devil's number. So the devil has a dog who then helps people. Get back to that. I don't know. That's part of what I would put together in here, like based on the things I know.

[June Diane Raphael]

There's no way it would be a dog.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, I mean there's Cerebus, the three headed dog that guards the gates of hell. So there's that dog. But that's not what we're talking about here. There is the other thing I couldn't figure out is that scene at the end of the movie where we see the dog, Ned, we see this dark shadowy figure and they're at the gravestone at the funeral. The funeral for Laura, the woman that Jim Carrey killed. But they're having a funeral 15 years later.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, because they never found her remains.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, so that's right.

[Paul Scheer]

That's what it is.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Now they do.

[June Diane Raphael]

I would really love to get into why Robin took her skeleton and somewhere.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think to protect Jim Carrey.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, wait, Scott is saying her name is Agatha.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, Agatha is her name. Robin is son.

[June Diane Raphael]

No, no, you're right.

[Paul Scheer]

But Agatha wouldn't have known Jim Carrey to move the body.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, no, because she found. Wait, no.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Agatha found at that place and she's.

[June Diane Raphael]

Read the book at Nathaniel.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, right, because she figures out that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He'S the author of the book. When ye. When Bud Court is. When she finds Bud Court's crazy room.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay, let me just go back. Let me, let me just, Let me just go Back. Let me just go back for a little bit just. Because if you're listening to this, it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sounds like I would like the T shirt to be Bud Court's crazy room.

[Paul Scheer]

I would love.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, it's just. It's just a red hued scroll filled nightmarescape.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay, but here's my question, Paul. And I'm sorry, I'm really sorry to interrupt, but my question about like 23 and the devil. So. So Agatha already wanted to. To paint her room.

[Paul Scheer]

Can we just. Let me just set up.

[June Diane Raphael]

Sorry. Yes, yes.

[Paul Scheer]

Hold on. Sorry, sorry. Let me just set up one little bit of here because I think this will help us. And June immediately turns off her camera. I'll say this. We meet Jim Carrey. He seems like a. Oh, Jason just turned up. No, guys, I just have to explain one part of the plot. We meet Jim Carrey, he seems like he is a depressed loner, doesn't fit in. And then you reveal he is happily married to a beautiful woman and has a son and seemingly a pretty functional family life, right?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Not just functional, I would say. Happy.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes. So we have Virginia Madsen, who's Agatha, and we have Logan Lerman, who is Robin. That's a son. I just wanted to set that up. So this weird character that we meet who hates dogs, who's xenophobic, is actually a very well adjusted, like normal guy living a normal life. And all right, so now I just want to label who these characters are because it's gonna get hard to.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm sorry. You know, also because many of them, like there are a couple of characters. Like Jim Carrey plays both Walter. Right. And he plays Fingerling in the fantasy sequences. Like, as does Virginia Madsen plays Agatha, but she also plays Fabrizia. Fabrizia. In the. In the. Fabrizia.

[Paul Scheer]

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[June Diane Raphael]

Because he turned down her advances in.

[Paul Scheer]

The best dialogue of all time.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh my God. She's basically like, why don't you take it out and wag your tail at me?

[Paul Scheer]

And he go, wouldn't wag my tail in the bitches room with you if you were the last bitch on earth. Because it's a celebration party. It's his birthday party and it's. But it's a dog themed birthday party, so his cake is a dog. So it's all.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It looks like the ladies room has been covered over with the word bitch.

[Paul Scheer]

Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So it does say. The bathroom does say bitches room.

[Paul Scheer]

It's also so convoluted. It's like, why would. It's like having a birthday party for a lawyer and everything being law themed. Like this is the jury box back.

[June Diane Raphael]

So many questions about. First of all, where does this movie take place?

[Paul Scheer]

I don't know. Philadelphia.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay. In whatever. Okay. So now I know. I know for a fact that in some places the animal controller is an elected position. In some, like small towns and stuff.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You actually do not think Jim Carrey had to run for this.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay. But my question is how many people could possibly be working in this department that. It's enormous. Not only that, but there seems to be. In whatever small town city this is, there seems to be a behavioral psychologist just for the animal controllers.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

So that if they run into any traumatic experiences on the job, they can go talk to.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They've basically taken all of the elements of a traditional police story. The detect the bar that services the detectives. The. The. The. The mental health professional who helps out the police who've had traumatic experiences and clears them for duty so that they can return to the force after a shooting or an event or whatever. All of those tropes from a police procedural story have been ported onto an animal control Officer who let a.

[June Diane Raphael]

On his birthday and was bitten by a dog.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

I want to underline it one more time, too. It is a crazy way to meet a lead character. It's Jim Carrey. He first barks at another dog. He's an animal, you know, Controller.

[June Diane Raphael]

Was that a bark, Paul? That first sound he made, I was like, I don't know what that is.

[Paul Scheer]

He was taunting a dog.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Do you think that this. All of this. He hates dogs. He's taunting the dog. He's talking to the dogs. Is this just a barrier a bit or a trying to reframe or change the narrative from Ace Ventura? I talk to dogs. I'm a goofball. That. This is like, is this a wink or is this trying to. I thought about that because it's. The movie starts and I was like, this feels like obviously referencing Ace Ventura. Like, I'm not always nice to animals.

[June Diane Raphael]

Right. I hate animals.

[Paul Scheer]

I.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

In fact, I'm. I can also hate animals.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yep.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I have range.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, at this point in his career. Ace Ventura came out in 1994. This is 2007, I think. I think he's pretty far away from.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

How close to the Schumacher. Batman that Jim Carrey was in is like, is this another Schumacher? Jim Carrey? Were they, like. Were they on set for Batman? And Jim Carrey was like, listen, I.

[Paul Scheer]

Got the Batman and Robins. 1997. Guys, this is.

[June Diane Raphael]

This is a. Yeah, guys, I. I think that all this is. Is Jim Carrey's fascination with the number 23.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, just to put it in context, this is of the era Timeless, where he. He's kind of already had his ups and downs. And this is like, just a weird sidestep because this is coming out in 2007 and he's already been Lemony Snicket. He already did Eternal Sunshine. He did Bruce Almighty. Right. So he did Fun with Dick and Jane, and then the number 23. And the next movie he made was. Yes. Like, this is an odd. Like, it's not, you know, it's post majestic. It's. You know, it's. It's a weird moment of his time.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's not in his heyday, but it's in this period where he's trying to do a bunch of different stuff.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Interesting. And trying to reinvent himself. There's a. It's. It's so interesting because I feel like one of the things we haven't mentioned is in the fantasy sequence of this, because part of me feels like this is what an element that Jim Carrey may have been drawn to is that he gets to play the affable everyman who's kind of spiraling out of control. But in the fantasy sequences, he. The fantasy is all a noir detective story. Like an incredibly washed out, stylized femme fatale filled noir story.

[Paul Scheer]

And I feel like plays a saxophone.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Replace. I was gonna say and has bad tattoos.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, he plays a saxophone. Saxophone, shirtless. It's like that character from the Lost Boys. But here's what.

[June Diane Raphael]

And I'm sorry, you could be an everyman if you hate dogs.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I want to bring it back to he doesn't only hate dogs, he's also kind of a racist because when he does confront that dog, he presents this like he is doing a monologue to this dog about how this dog is going to be eaten if this dog was in China. He's like. And I guess also working for like, it's like a. It's like. I mean, I just point that out for a couple reasons because it's our lead character and he is going to go into a descent of madness. But you start off going, this guy fucking sucks. Like he.

[June Diane Raphael]

And absolutely, Paul. And I would add that this is not a vicious dog.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, not at all. And I would also add pitbull mix.

[June Diane Raphael]

Of some kind who seemed like pretty docile.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, and, and, and I would also add, what does he have to be such a dick about? Like, what's he so upset about? A wonderful home with a supporting loving family. I mean, maybe he's haunted by the traumas of his past and just doesn't know it and is waiting for a handmade book to be found and trigger his. His memories.

[June Diane Raphael]

But let me ask something though. Why not have him find the book?

[Paul Scheer]

Well, this is. Okay, this is my question.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Why.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay, Agatha said that she has read the book, but she's in the bookstore holding the book. So did she already read it before she went to the bookstore? Did she try to open him? Cause here's the thing, and we have to spoil this at one point. Cause I think we have to unpack it. We find out much, much later in the movie that Jim Carrey has been in a mental institution. Has one of the best exits of that. Like after they. He basically like. Like, basically he's in a mental institution. He has amnesia, which makes him forget that he killed somebody. And as he's leaving the mental institution, the doc's like, well, I hope I don't see you anymore. He's like, oh, I'm not gonna come back. They have a Joking dispatch from the mental institution. And then immediately as he walks out the door, he has a meet cute with Virginia Madsen where he bumps into her and she drops a cake and then they get together. But. So this entire movie she knows he knows nothing about his life before 23 years old.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, and, but why doesn't he know that? Why isn't he able. He, he doesn't seem to, you know, he doesn't remember whether it's amnesia or. They tell, they say because he tries to. He tries to commit suicide and jumps out of a window. And so they're not sure if it's trauma from the, the fall or if it's some sort of amnesia or if it's just, just whatever. But he doesn't seem to remember any of his past life, so. But mustn't his family understand it? The movie wants to have it every way, right? He wants, they want him to be totally normal. And then through the process of re finding and reading this book and because that's what we haven't really said definitively.

[June Diane Raphael]

The book, it's about the book.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The book that he had. The whole movie is about him becoming obsessed with this book and thinking that this book and this author is writing about him only to find at the end of the movie obviously that Jim Carrey, his character wrote the book prior to going insane. Prior to amnesia. Rather.

[June Diane Raphael]

The best part is that we find that out because Virginia Matson rips off a piece of paper that had been like glued to the title page of the manuscript where it said buy and then it said top Secrets. What's his name again? Paul? Top Secrets.

[Paul Scheer]

Top Secrets.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, that's. I can't deal with that. But who did that? Did Bud Court do that?

[June Diane Raphael]

That's what I don't know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Who made the red book? Who made the red book? You know, because here's the thing. There's. By the end of the movie, there's two copies of the book. One we've spent the whole movie with, which is the red covered book, the red cover which matches the red walls, which matches the red light bulb in Bud Court's cha like. And then there's the copy that is the manuscript, which is the loose pages that Jim Carrey types up and handwrites and glues stuff to.

[June Diane Raphael]

The last chapter's on a wall and.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Last chapter's on the wall in the hotel. But who made the red book, Bud Court? I don't know.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes, yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

I do not.

[Paul Scheer]

So basically this man went insane and wrote this book.

[June Diane Raphael]

Top Secrets.

[Paul Scheer]

No, no, Top secrets, Fingerling or no, basically. But he wrote the book. Jim Carrey wrote the book. So Jim Carrey wrote this book, like, as an insane person. And then he's like, ooh, wouldn't this be great if I just self published this book under somebody? It's a wild ride. I don't know why he wanted to get that book.

[June Diane Raphael]

I don't think he published it. Because he sent it to the.

[Paul Scheer]

He sent it to the thing. He sent it to the public. I thought that. I thought that Bud Court published the book.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I think. Okay, that makes sense. As the doctor, I thought you were saying Jim Carrey. Oh, no, no, I misunderstood.

[Paul Scheer]

They take advantage of this guy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way, my stepfather used to bring home beautiful watercolors painted by schizophrenic patients of his. They're really gorgeous. And June told me I couldn't put him in the house because they're too scary. But one.

[June Diane Raphael]

One was very frightening. Had nothing to do with this, you know, having schizophrenia or not. It was just different.

[Paul Scheer]

Of course. No, no, but, but. So they basically, like. Like, he's like, ooh, this isn't. I guess, like, Bud Court's like, ooh, this is interesting. Let me just like, make money on this person who is not well, publishes the book, but then pops on Topsy secrets. And then. And then that. And then. But then he gets obsessed about the number 23 in the publishing or reading of it.

[June Diane Raphael]

The book.

[Paul Scheer]

So the book is like a virus.

[June Diane Raphael]

But this is what I don't understand.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But then Agatha read it. She didn't go insane. Robin is reading it. He doesn't go insane.

[Paul Scheer]

When did Agatha read it? Because she keeps on going, oh, no, you're being crazy. You're being crazy. First of all, the family's so okay with him writing on the walls. They're way relaxed with him going crazy. But, like, when did she read it? Cause it seems like she's holding the book to set him up to open.

[June Diane Raphael]

Did seem that way.

[Paul Scheer]

But then she's like, no, no.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I felt like he. I will say this for a slim. It's a novella.

[Paul Scheer]

Let's be clear.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's 22 chapters. It's a shorty.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, by the way, it also. I will also say it's a graphic novel at points. And there's. There's pictures in there. There's.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's. It's a mixed media piece. But he really there, inexplicably, for reasons I'll never understand, the movie continuously gives us the Dates, like, It'll be like February 5th. So what you. I mean, and I don't know why the. The time. There is no ticking clock. There is no timeline. There is no reason to be jumping back and forth in time and trying to help us by understanding what day it is. But what it does let us know is it's taking Jim Carrey weeks to read a very small book. So my assumption is his wife read it just in an appropriate amount of time, which is, for a book that size, probably three hours.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, well, I think that's a good point. I thought for sure we were going to land. Everything was going to culminate to a date that added up to 23.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yeah, sure.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, his birthday's on February 3rd. We know that now.

[Paul Scheer]

Now, let me also. Let me also just say this.

[June Diane Raphael]

But it did.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, this movie also feels like while it's really leaning into all this conspiracy, it also feels like. Is it a parody of it?

[June Diane Raphael]

Because I thought that too.

[Paul Scheer]

At points when he starts reading this book, it's as if Jim Carrey is reading it like this. Like he's doing a bit like, listen to Jim Carrey's voiceover of him reading the book. Chapter one. You can call me Fingerling. It's not my reason. Real name, it came from a book I read as a child, Fingerling at the zoo. Paper flap long gone. It had a green hardback cover and mottled texture. It was possibly my very first book. Funny, I can't recall what it was about. The only thing I remember is the name Fingerling. It was so weird. Like, when he says, call me Fingerling, I'm like, it's a bad.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's a bad book. It's also bad.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes. I'm like, this is not a book. This book is also like. I'm like, this is not compelling. I'm not. I'm not sitting up.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, well, then when you realize it was written in a post murder frenzy, you're like, okay, but that's my question.

[June Diane Raphael]

About Agatha, because I believe that Agatha had maybe. Agatha's clearly already been, like, seduced by the devil. That's why she wants to paint those walls red.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay, so she's been turned.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. So I think she had probably either already read the book before she saw it in the. The gift shop.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, so maybe is Danny Houston the devil? That other doctor?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, I would believe that only because Danny Houston is always the bad guy.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So when Danny Houston was even in the cr. When I saw Danny Houston's name In the credits, I was like, well, that's. That's who did it. And then he turns out to be seemingly benevolent. He seems to be an ally to Agatha and Robin in trying to help corral the more and more erratic Jim Carrey. Correct or no?

[Paul Scheer]

Or is he just trying to manipulate him?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I don't know to what end. I thought it was going to be revealed at the end that Danny Houston had done the crimes but was making Jim Carrey crazy to the point that Jim Carrey was going to be convicted of the murder. That, that it would seem as though Jim Carrey would incriminate or in like when Jim Carrey dug up the body, I thought, oh, this is it. They're gonna make it so that he gets arrested for this, only to find out he did in fact do it.

[June Diane Raphael]

You know, Interesting. I. I don't know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Because at the end of the day, Danny Houston. Not a bad guy.

[June Diane Raphael]

Not a bad guy. And I will say the bad guy is Jim Carrey. And, and I did. What I didn't understand is at the very end, and I'm jumping ahead, listeners, but at the very end, Jim Carrey says that because he's turned himself in, obviously the guy who was framed for the murder of Lara, which we haven't even got into the original murder, but whoever that college girlfriend of his was that he murdered because she touched Danny.

[Paul Scheer]

Houston's or no, she touched that other guy's finger. Finger.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, no, she did have sex with him in the woods.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh. Oh, yeah. That looks so uncomfortable.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She was touching his. She was touching his fingerlings in the classroom.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's why they call him Detector Fingerlings. He's always looking now for fingers.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The fact that he named the character Detective Fingerling in his hard boiled, you know, Philip Marlow esque character is Detective Fingerling.

[June Diane Raphael]

But here's my question. At the very end, he says when he's talking to his son Robin that he's going to be in jail for a while. Justice has been served. And, you know, he, he's going to be serving his time until he gets parole. Why would this man ever get paroled?

[Paul Scheer]

Because I feel like he said the judge took kindness on him because he came for. Basically the judge was like, you didn't have to do this, so I'll go easy on you. Like, hey, hey, you know what?

[June Diane Raphael]

You did me one, I'll do you one. Like you killed someone. One.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

And not only that, but another man sat in jail for like, for 23 years, right?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

23. I don't know. I Said, I don't know.

[June Diane Raphael]

I know 15 plus 15 is 30. And then if you take 30 and you minus 7 7, you're going to get to 23.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So, yes.

[Paul Scheer]

I do think, though, it's like, it's so weird because even in that final moment when they're at the grave site, the devil man and dog are close. Everyone's always spying on people in very close proximity. Like when Jim Carrey is watching his wife and Dann Houston in that restaurant, he's literally standing in the middle of an empty street, staring into a big bay window. It's like if any. Like you would catch it in the corner of your eye. Like, it's not. He's not even trying. Like, everyone is just there. Like the other person standing at the cemetery. Like, I'm two feet away. I'm two feet away.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It felt like. Yeah, it felt like there was. It was. It's so unsatisfying. This is a. A murder thriller, mystery, whodunit.

[June Diane Raphael]

I love this movies, too.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It wants to be an erotic thriller because there's all these kind of like, transgressive sexually things that are happening. As in the flashback, especially.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yes. With Fabrizio. And then there's also like an element where I felt like Jim Carrey was like, I want to make seven.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I want to make my Seven. My gritty, stylized crime thriller, blah, blah, blah. Except that at the end, the ending is so unsatisfying. It's that he's been the killer the whole time and that he just didn't know it. There's no outing of the bad guy. There's no satisfying unraveling of the mystery and the revelation of the real murderer, blah, blah, blah.

[Paul Scheer]

It's just what it feels like to me is when you've been in a writer's room or you're trying to come up with a solution for something and it's like late. It's like 11 o'clock at night. And it's like, all right, here's the deal. You know what it is? He wrote the book. She knew about the book, but she's also by the devil. And he. So he hid the body. It sounds good. Fast. Fastly pitched, right? And then everyone's like, oh, yeah, that is good. And then you go home and then the next morning you come back and you're like, oh, what do we come up with? Oh, that doesn't make any sense.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But then they're like, wait a minute, wait a minute. Fuck, fuck, fuck. We already cast Danny Houston, so he's got to be the murderer, right? He's Danny Houston.

[Paul Scheer]

When you look at my notes in a one section, this is. These are the notes right after other. Who is this? She wrote the book. He wrote the book. He was the detective.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wait, it wasn't like Danny Houston that my, my notes, Paul, my notes are so similar. They're just almost. There's a huge chunk of my notes that all just. Is this a homemade book movie we're in is in the book like all these. Everything equals 23. But not really. It's all just questions.

[June Diane Raphael]

All of mine are, why is he speaking to dogs like this? How dare he hate dogs? Why must he hate dogs?

[Paul Scheer]

I'm gonna tell you this. I know that we talked a lot about the number 23. I thought this movie was off the rails. When the son gave him his birthday gift and it looked like a five year old made a mug for him. The sun seems like a straight up heist. Like the son is making out with his girlfriend on the couch. He's like here, dad.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The son is like a 16 year old. They all have a lovely relationship and dynamic to each other. And the son looks like he made him something in like one of those pottery places that you go to for a seven year old birthday party.

[Paul Scheer]

It's like it, like it's so off. It's not pretty in any way. The world's best dad. It's like, all right, all right. This 18 year old made this. As a small business owner, you don't have the luxury of clocking out early. I know that. Right? You know your business is on your mind 24 7. So when you're hiring, you need a partner that grinds just as hard as you do. And that hiring partner is LinkedIn jobs. Let me tell you, when you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. They make it easy to post your job for free. Share it with your network and get qualified candidates that you can manage all in one place. And LinkedIn's new feature can help you write job descriptions and then quickly get your job in front of the right people with deep candidate insights. Okay. At the end of the day, the most important thing for your small business is the quality of candidates. And with LinkedIn, you can feel confident that you're getting the best. Find out why more than 2.5 million small businesses use LinkedIn for hiring today. Post your job for [e-mail] valuable. That's LinkedIn.com valuable. To post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. Real businesses rely on spectrum business for the fastest Most reliable Internet starting at $40 a month when bundled and backed by the Spectrum commitment. Get Internet speeds to fit your business needs starting at 500Mbps bundle with TV, phone and mobile. For more savings, level up your speed for a three year price guarantee. Find a bundle that is made for your [e-mail] business restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas at.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

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[Paul Scheer]

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[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm like, oh, I miss that.

[Paul Scheer]

What the fuck are you talking.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Really?

[Paul Scheer]

What?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm sorry, but Paul, I want to be clear. He says I look like a rock star to his son or to Virginia.

[Paul Scheer]

He'S trying to get fucked. And then you reveal that he's got a wife. Life.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes. You don't know then. It doesn't matter. By the way. It doesn't matter because he goes to that party and they do want to fuck him anyway. That woman, the supervisor, that's where the scene happens where she says, wag your tail at me. So he is, he is like, he's in his movie being like, I need to be an object of sexual desire, but also a family man. But also, I have to say this.

[Paul Scheer]

I have a. I have a theory. I don't know if I've talked about this theory here, but I'm going to talk about it now, which is I believe that in every movie Jim Carrey must show himself fucking. Because it's like I am still a wanted man. Like an Ace Ventura, arguably one of the goofiest fucking movies. He fucks and it's like. And he's good at it. Like, it's not like it's a funny scene, but the scene isn't funny. Like that about him fucking. It's like, oh, no, no, he's really good at fucking. All the animals are watching him fuck. And it's like, it's a weird choice. Like I feel like Jim Carrey's like, I just need to let everybody, like, I may be weird or whatever, funny voices, but I still fuck.

[June Diane Raphael]

But I get it done.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. Just because I'm. Just because I'm wearing the mask. Don't worry, I fuck.

[Paul Scheer]

There is something. And I have to do a deeper research on this, but every time I see him in a movie, I'm like, it comes out of nowhere that people are like, I want to fudge you. And that's. And that's never like. And we've been watching a lot of Adam Sandler movies because our kids have been really enjoying them and it's been great to watch. Like, Sandler doesn't carry himself like that. Bill Murray doesn't carry himself like that. Like Steve Martin does. He doesn't.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's like he's like, right, you're right. And it's such a. It's. It's hard in a way, because with Ace Ventur, it's such a funny movie and our kids love it. But we do have to constantly.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, yeah, that movie is like run.

[June Diane Raphael]

In and fast forward Jim Carrey.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, there's a lot of things in there around sex that is a little messy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, it takes. It's all new meaning for take you to the pound.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way, the opening scene of Ace Ventura, he like, he had. He has this, like. He steals a dog, right? The reward for stealing a dog is a blowjob. But the woman's like, I gotta blow you. That's like. That's like the opening.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm gonna be honest, I don't. I'll be honest, I don't think I've watched Ace Ventura for quite funny, you.

[June Diane Raphael]

Know, I mean, he's very Good.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. Probably 20 years, I'll tell you this much. The rumor I heard about Ace Ventura was that Jim Carrey couldn't get a movie, you know, was trying to get a movie together, couldn't get one, and gets Ace Ventura and is like, this script is terrible, but I'm gonna make sure it's gonna be great. And every day would stay up until like 2 or 3 in the morning writing the pages for the next day to make sure it was great and really imbue this character and make it awesome. And I feel like he needs a little bit more of this energy in movie 23 to make it make sense. I feel like no one was looking at the next day's pages or they were, and they weren't looking at what they already shot. I don't know. Jim Carrey did Fire his agent at the test screening of this movie at the screen.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Whoa.

[Paul Scheer]

Which is also like, fuck you, because you clearly wanted to do this. You can't fire any. Like, it's not like you, it's not like, all right, paint my house. I'll come home and see what it is. Like, you are, you're an accomplice. Like, you were on set, you saw it with. You got that bad back tattoo. You picked up the saxophone. You knew what you were doing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, now that I understand, he was obsessed with the number 23 and all this, this has got to be a passion project. This is his toy.

[Paul Scheer]

It's his friend. Yes, yes. His friend Fernley. Fernley Phillips, who is the writer of this. His friend.

[June Diane Raphael]

Did anyone else notice that when he wrote a note to Agatha when he was leaving to go dig out the skeleton at the park, which also had a name that, you know, rhymed together. Did anyone else notice that the note he left for Agatha that he put on the refrigerator and put a magnet on it for her to see? His handwriting was so flowery and flourished. I don't know if we have a screen grab of it, but it was the most kind of feminine.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Don't you. I always assume that is a props department person.

[June Diane Raphael]

So hilarious.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's hilariously not him. Because it should look like the chaotic.

[June Diane Raphael]

Scrolls that are on his arms that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He'S been doing on his arms, on the walls, on the pa.

[June Diane Raphael]

I mean, everyone's getting all cursive. Like, pure cursive.

[Paul Scheer]

I, I will say the interesting thing about Fernley Phillips, the writer of this is he's only, he's only credited with the number 23.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's gotta be a suit. That's gotta be a story.

[Paul Scheer]

Jim Carrey wrote pictures of him, but, like, he never, but he never wrote any. Like, it's not even like, oh, like I've never seen an IMDb page. It's, it's one one. It's one credit.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Ah, that's.

[Paul Scheer]

God, I think there's something going on. I, I, I would argue that Jim Carrey wrote this movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's what I just said. Yeah. I feel like Jim Carrey wrote this and under a pseudonym. And Fernley Phillips is like his Tony Clifton.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

Fernley Phillips. IMDb.

[Paul Scheer]

I'm, I'm like, I'm just.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I, I, what are we doing? We can't be going down the rabbit hole. We're doing, doing it. We're doing the number 23. We're stuck in a conspiracy.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's what I was saying. Like, they did this to us. The number 23 is out for us. I'm dead serious, guys. Fernley. Fernley Phillips is not clickety clackity going.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Through, like, a conspiracy theory. Okay?

[Paul Scheer]

All right, So I just. I just. I just found. Okay, I just found the New York Times. Molly and I are fighting at the same time. Okay, so, okay, in February. This is their wedding announcement in February 2002. Friendly Phillips was an undiscovered Hollywood screenwriter with a month to go before his money would run out and he'd have to go home to England. He was so low on cash that he would wait until McDonald's offered hamburgers for 29 cents and buy five to save money for the coming week. Alyssa Ferguson was an associate producer working for bo Flynn, reading 30 to 50 scripts a week. When Philip's screenplay, the number 23, landed on her desk, it was love at first sight. I thought this was probably the best script I'd seen in my entire life. And that's how they met. She read this script and. And. And that's how they like this movie, united them over the movie 23. Wow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow, wow. Okay. Okay.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And it looks like he's written other things too.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's written other things. Sorry. I mean, I'm saying he's. I'm. I'm saying he is credited as having written features for Paramount, Warner Brothers, Universal, Fox, and now. So maybe he never may not have been produced.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But there are plenty of people who have. Have successful, successful careers in which they get paid to a lot of money to write scripts that then eventually do not get made.

[Paul Scheer]

I love that he found the love of his life from writing the movie the number 23. Like, this is like incredible story. It would be very different story. Oh, and he teaches a screenwriting class. We're going deep. He teaches a screenwriting class. So he. All right, so he's a real person.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We apologize for suggesting that this was. That he was a suit. Didn't.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes, but by the way. And now we're going to sign up first class.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's very interesting to see all of the other celebrities that were at the premiere of the number 23.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, W. Should this be a segment we've never done?

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I have a question.

[June Diane Raphael]

I'll tell you. I'll tell you. Who is there? Stacy Keebler. Oh, hey, Rosario. Jose.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, nice.

[June Diane Raphael]

Came out to support, which is always nice to see.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I want to ask this question. Can I quickly say.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Paul Scheer]

What is your. What is your take on this? Do you do either of you show up to a movie that you have no involvement in, and. And let's bar a very close friend's something. But, like, this is like, oh, hey, you know, this is a movie premiere and take away Covid and everything like that. Like, do you show up if you're not involved in it at all?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Now, just to clarify, you mean, like, walk the carpet and be photographed?

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Right.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, you're not saying, do you go to the movie?

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, no, no, no.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You go to the premiere and do you get photographed for a movie?

[Paul Scheer]

Because there are certain friends I know that, like, will say, oh, I got it. I got to. I'm going to go to this premiere tonight. Oh, did you have anything to do with it? No, no, no. I'm just going to go walk the carpet.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, I don't. I don't. I mean, like, you. I'm supporting a friend.

[Paul Scheer]

Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, if. If you had a movie that was going and you come.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Even if I wasn't in it, I certainly would come and support, you know, your film or whatever. But no, I wouldn't go to. Now, let me be clear. If they said, come to the premiere of Fast 10. Oh, Fast and Furious 10, I'm in. I would go and. And if they said, do you want to walk the red carpet? I would be like, absolutely.

[Paul Scheer]

I'm 100%.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's different because we are involved in that one.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's what. I've done it. But. But no, no, I wouldn't randomly go to some random premiere rally.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, I would definitely go for a friend, obviously. But I wouldn't go either unless it was a fast movie or it was a movie that I felt, like, super attached to.

[Paul Scheer]

Right. So this. I'm just. I'm just saying. So these people who are showing up, they're coming because either they're part of, you know, maybe they're part of this. Maybe they're. There are 23 conspiracy theories. Maybe. I don't know. I don't want to lie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They're 23. And me.

[June Diane Raphael]

A part of me wonders, though, if some of these actresses might have been in a cut of the movie. And because I know I have a number of friends who did not find out they were cut out of the movie until the premiere.

[Paul Scheer]

Whoa.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

So it's also possible they thought they were movies.

[Paul Scheer]

Not the movies.

[June Diane Raphael]

My favorite scene, Applegate was there, too.

[Paul Scheer]

I showed up. I was in that Larry David movie, the Clear History, and I went. I was excited. I knew I was in it. I shot With Larry for, like, a day.

[June Diane Raphael]

I went with you, I'll never forget. He was pretty much the first person to arrive.

[Paul Scheer]

He was the first person to arrive. And then they displayed the red carpet on the screen. So, like, as you were sitting in your seat, you could see people walking. You couldn't hear it, but you could see it. And Larry got up to take people off the red carpet so the movie would start on time, which was one of the best moves I've ever seen. For the lead.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Amazing.

[Paul Scheer]

He was already. But when I walked in to that movie, I bumped into him in the lobby. He's like, oh, no.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, no.

[Paul Scheer]

We cut that scene. We cut it way, way, way down. Oh, no. It was such a funny moment of him realizing it. And then it does. It does sting a little bit when you. Yeah, of course. You know. Yeah, but it's. You know. But it was nice that it acknowledged.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I would think, especially to find out.

[June Diane Raphael]

At the premiere, you've gotten dressed up, you've beaten. Yeah, it's horrible.

[Paul Scheer]

All right. So anyway, down that rabbit hole, I will say this. What is Jim Carrey as a private investigator if he's meeting with suicidal people? Because he's not a cop. He's a PI, Right?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Did he start as a cop and get, like, disgraced? Wasn't there a thing where they were like, you're not a detective anymore or something like that? Well, that was that moment when he.

[Paul Scheer]

Goes, did they take away your gun? And he's like, yeah, but hold on. But hold on. But when he first meet with that woman, she's kind of hanging like she hung herself.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This movie's representation of suicide and mental illness, frankly, is deeply troubling and problematic. Yeah, I mean, like, across the board, everything from the hospital to whatever is going on with him, with everybody. Everybody. The treatment of mental illness in this movie is absolutely absolute, you know, just frankly, nuts.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, maybe. Maybe because they're all, you know, they're all obsessed with the number 23, so they're not, you know, they can't be doing their job. But that idea that he's, like, meeting with her, like, he's meeting with a woman before she commits suicide to talk to her about why she. I mean, this is where the movie really, like, I don't understand what the fuck is going on.

[June Diane Raphael]

I didn't follow that.

[Paul Scheer]

And I guess it makes sense that it's written by somebody who is having a mental breakdown as well, because it's. It is confusing. I mean, it's confusing. It's confusing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yeah. No, that's the thing is none of the. Because we spend so much time inside the story. Inside the book.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Where Jim Carrey is portraying Detective Fingerling. Again, I can't state it enough. His name is Fingerling. And we spend so much time in that story and it features Jim Carrey narrating voiceover for the movie Hard Boiled kind of again. Again, like. Like Raymond Chandler style noir, hardboiled detective stuff. And it's nonsense. None of we. The. The story of the book, the Detective Fingerling story doesn't make any sense. No, he's not. He's not on the case. He's just jumping around people holding his sacks. This is Chekov's sax.

[Paul Scheer]

He.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's holding it, but he never plays, by the way.

[Paul Scheer]

I will say this. I wrote it. I jumped up in the middle of watching this movie last night. Like, I had figured it out. I've only. Every now and then I. Every now and then there'll be a moment like I figured out the Sixth Sense before the reveal. And I was like, so proud. I was like, ah, I did it. I saw the. And I was able to enjoy the movie like for like the. The next 10 minutes. Like, seeing what I knew. I jumped up the same way last night. And I was like, he's got rabies bees. That's what I thought the entire movie was.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I love that. I love that. As a. As a. From the. From the initial dog bus, like, he got rabies.

[Paul Scheer]

That's. And he's gone crazy. He didn't treat it. He didn't take it seriously. And then they never even discussed that. That was. But I really wasn't.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That would have been incredible because, you know, rabies, once it takes over, it will. It just. You're. You're done. You're done.

[Paul Scheer]

And that's what I thought would have been interesting. I was like, oh, this is like. But this whole idea of this larger murder plot. And then it's also like you're doing something really weird, which is like you're telling three stories. You're telling the story of the dog catcher who has amnesia who killed this girl that he loved. But then that's also being personified in another book because he's also the suicide blonde. She jumps out the window, but he actually jumped out the window because he was feeling that. So the movie opens with the end and it's very like. And then when you try to connect the pieces, it doesn't even make. It doesn't make sense. Nor do they even do like that fight club thing. Of like, oh, you see what you were missing?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, that's what they, they never filled in the blanks for you. They just, you know, they, they, they just give you a couple of reveals that are just not satisfying, you know? Like, the other thing that's really unsatisfying is just the end. The end of the movie. Movie. Like when he, it should feel incredible when he gets to that room and is ripping the wallpaper off to discover that chapter 23 of the book is on the walls of the hotel. That should be a awesome reveal where you're like, whoa, the missing chapter. And you're like, wait, what, What? What is go. What? What? What? What is this? Also, there's so little. There's so little. The movie is full of truly insane moments that, that get no reaction from people. When Bud Court slices his own neck open with a box cutter in the mailbox store, nobody yells, you mean the.

[June Diane Raphael]

Mailbox facility as Virginia Madsen refers to it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm sorry, dmf the mailbox.

[Paul Scheer]

I love Virginia, by the way. I also, like, love Virginia Madison made.

[June Diane Raphael]

Me think of, like, where is she? And why don't I see more of her?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, she was terrific in this.

[Paul Scheer]

But Virginia Madsen and Logan Lerman, both great actors, and I will say even Jim Carrey in this, all like, selling it. Like, except for Jim Carrey's voiceover, everyone, like, I mean, but Virginia Madsen, like, I'm like, oh, you're. But you're like, you have to do the hardest thing, which is like, you come home, your husband's written all over the walls, and you're like, hey, all right, what's on your mind, honey?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like, I agree, I agree. I feel like Virginia Madsen and Logan Lerman and to a lesser degree, Danny Houston. But really, Virginia Madsen and Logan Lerman are doing an incredible. Are doing yeoman's work, trying to ground this movie into like, reality by being.

[Paul Scheer]

Like, okay, Virginia Madsen was married to, to Danny Houston.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What? Oh, I didn't know that.

[Paul Scheer]

From 1989 to 1992.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I like that. You almost just said that she was married to Logan Lerman.

[June Diane Raphael]

Wow. So they were.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, that's interesting. Okay.

[June Diane Raphael]

Not married when they were in this movie.

[Paul Scheer]

No, but I just.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

When were they married?

[Paul Scheer]

From 1989 to 1992. A short lived one.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, interesting. So this was a reunion of sorts.

[June Diane Raphael]

I don't think I knew she was married to Antonio Sabato Jr. Oh, wow. Or had a child with him.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow.

[Paul Scheer]

We're getting into it, guys.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We're deep In Madsen, she was great. She was great in this. And because there was also a period where. And I don't know what you guys felt like. There was also a period where I was like, oh, she did?

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And I was like, okay, I'm. I'm. I'm on board for that version of it where she is. Her past is coming back to. And, and, and because of this book or someone is taunting her because. Because she is the first person who finds the book. You know, So I was like, oh, is this. Is this somehow her perpetuating or putting this thing in motion?

[Paul Scheer]

Can I just. Can I just quickly pitch out what I think this story is and tell me if I'm right or wrong. Jim Carrey's dad has been haunted by the number 23. Jim Carrey. His father kills himself. Jim Carrey then, you know, feels like, oh, my gosh, my dad had this little curse, but I'm doing okay. I'm in love with a girl. Everything's going great. Catches his girlfriend cheating on him. And then the number 20. That's the number 23 is kind of infecting him at that point. He kills his girlfriend, blames it on someone else, but that forces him to go crazy. He tries to commit suicide. Suicide. Gets amnesia, goes to this hospital, gets better. The number 23 is gone. Immediately meets Virginia Madsen. They get married. They have a very happy life, besides the fact that he hates dogs and he's slightly racist and everything is okay until he finds this book. But we don't know anything. And then we know what happens there. But we don't know anything about how Virginia Madsen gets corrupted or why she is the way she is, why she wants the walls. Why she wants the walls. Blood red. Is she working for the devil when she read the book? Like, we don't know anything about this character.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think the movie. I don't think. Well, I don't know, June, I'd like to hear what you think, but I don't think the movie thinks Virginia Madsen has been corrupted or is any sort of. I think Virginia Madsen, Danny Houston, Robin, the Sun, I think they all exist in the. In a. They are beneath nine. I don't think any of them are. Have malice or malicious intent. And maybe that's why they cast Danny Houston was to throw you off the scent and be like, you think he's going to be the bad guy, but he's actually helping, you know?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, I don't. I genuinely don't know because I did find it. Suspect that she was painting the walls red. I mean, what a color, you know, And.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But also blue. One of the other rooms she was painting blue during the movie.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay, but she also found the book. Book.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, that. Her finding the book and then. And then her trying to throw him off the scent. I don't know. There's something there. Like. But you said that she also. So who hid the body? She hid the body.

[June Diane Raphael]

She did.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She hid the skeleton. She.

[Paul Scheer]

She.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think she. And once. She. Okay, so once Bud Court slices his neck open in the mailbox facility, and he says to her, her, go to the institute. You know, it's. It's. You'll find it. Go find it. Go to the institute. So. And she pulls out of his pocket his ID card for Nathaniel. The Nathaniel Institute. Is that right?

[June Diane Raphael]

That's correct.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And his name. His name is Sirius Leary. His name, I believe, is Dr. Seriously?

[Paul Scheer]

Yes, I think his name.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Name is basically Dr. Seriously.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, my God.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, my God.

[Paul Scheer]

So.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So. So. But he. And he. He has in his pocket his hospital ID for when. So. And she takes it, and she goes to the Nathaniel Institute, which is covered in, like, razor wire and has clearly been shuttered for a day. Decade, at least, right?

[Paul Scheer]

Yes, at least.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Why is he still carrying his ID in his pocket? She walks right in. The light bulb is red. There are lit candles in this abandoned facility. I couldn't make heads or tails out of any of this. Why. Why are there so many candles around it that are lit? I'm assuming she lit them. Why is there a red light bulb? It's fucking crazy. But anyway, she goes, she finds the locker, the Foot Locker, that has all of her husband's stuff. She finds the manuscript, she rips the paper off of it, the top secret, and finds his name underneath. Right, Right. So this is where she learns everything. Then she goes and she realizes he killed whoever and she goes and takes the skeleton because she doesn't want him to be caught. Is that what's happening?

[June Diane Raphael]

I.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

To protect.

[June Diane Raphael]

Not know. I do not know, because I'm not sure why she's protecting him. Like, I don't think he called the cops. So. Protecting him from what exactly?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

From the cops.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay, so at that point she knows. But at that point, does she know he killed Laura someone?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes, because she realizes he wrote this.

[Paul Scheer]

Wow.

[June Diane Raphael]

What a wife then. Honestly?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, yes, yes. You know, relationship goals.

[June Diane Raphael]

Truly. Like, I much respect.

[Paul Scheer]

I'm reading through some interviews with the cast, and I want to read you this. I feel like they all drank the Kool Aid pretty early on. Because this is kind of interesting. It's like Virginia Madsen's like, I love this. The number 23. You know, there's so many things in case you're a doubter. And then Carrie's like, yeah, there was a phenomenon on set. You know, if, you know that my name and. And Schumacher's name, you put them together, that's 23 letters. And then Virginia Madison goes, yeah, well, Danny Houston and I were married 23 years ago. And, you know, and so, like, they're. They're all, like, up. They. I think that they've lost the plot on set a little bit, too. It's like. And I think what they're all saying.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, because that makes no sense, because you. You. What they can't do is be like, well, yeah, because Virginia Madsen and Logan Lerman's names together. Oh, wait, no, those are. Okay. No, no, so not those ones. Okay, so how about, you know, this is what.

[Paul Scheer]

This is what Joel Schumacher says. He's like, you know, I. He's like, I want it. He's like, this is my 20th movie. I wish it was 23.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I couldn't. And then. And then they. They do this thing where they say that he find. He sees the dog again. The dog takes him to the cemetery again. And then the priest comes out and says that the dog is the guardian of the dead.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, that's the devil dog.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Or is it an angel dog? Is the dog helping solve and bring closure to this?

[Paul Scheer]

All I know is a good question.

[June Diane Raphael]

Because why would this dog be a devil dog if. Why would Laura be in hell? She didn't do anything wrong.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. Laura needs to be put to rest. And is the dog trying to bring closure to her restless soul?

[June Diane Raphael]

First of all, all dogs are angel dogs.

[Paul Scheer]

All dogs go to heaven.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay. Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

All dogs go to heaven. Must love dogs.

[June Diane Raphael]

Let's be clear about that.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, can we. Can we just say that I will talk about this, and this is a very serious thing, actually, the dog did not show up to the premiere. I think that they did have a falling out. The dog is not like the way he was edited.

[June Diane Raphael]

Wow. Wow.

[Paul Scheer]

And that is, of course. And we're talking about Ned, who played Butcher, and this was Butch's acting debut. You know, he was very comfortable with the cast, you know, and even when he was being chased by Jim Carrey, you know, like. So Ned is. Ned is. Great. Little work there by Ned.

[June Diane Raphael]

I don't know, you guys. This doesn't. You know, it just doesn't, no pun intended, add up.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh yeah. Remember when he tried to hit the dog too?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. I was so upset. He literally. And what was that about exactly? What was that moment? Why was he trying to kill the dog?

[Paul Scheer]

I think the dog represents his. If he didn't get bit by the dog, he would have been on time to his birthday dinner. And if he was on time to his birthday dinner, he would never have looked at the book and his life.

[June Diane Raphael]

Would have been gone. These things might be true, but like now we have to go kill that dog.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And not only that, but why do we have to bring the family along for it? Like he brings his family along for killing dogs.

[June Diane Raphael]

Digging up bodies, going into the mailbox facility. Watch out, man. Slit his throat.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It feels like they're all with the. With the same level of intent as like, let's go play Pokemon Go together.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, let's do some geocaching or whatever.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes, some geocaching. By digging up the bones of a woman that I killed 20 years ago. Like, what is this?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, like it's. It's team building.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's a bad dad.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh my gosh. Well, obviously we have opinions about this movie and want to bring you into the world of the people who love this movie. Cuz now it is time for second opinions.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The movie was a piece of, yet this person recommends it. Tell me what is the message? Maybe that army. I need a second opinion.

[Paul Scheer]

All right, these are five star reviews cold from Amazon. I might even start taking them from Letterbox as well because these are pretty great. This one just starts out, title is solid movie. Jim Carrey made a good movie. But there is one flaw only. No reference to Michael Jordan who is number 23. So there you go. But five stars nonetheless.

[June Diane Raphael]

You know what five stars is? Two stars and three stars put together.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, you're right. Wow, look at that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Holy shit.

[Paul Scheer]

Jingle customer writes. I know for me the movies seem to drag a little, but when things AKA the truth starts to unfold, then it starts to make sense. And you will come to realize you may not have been paying attention. This is a movie you're gonna wanna watch again. Again. Because you need to watch it like the Sixth Sense. I first saw this movie when it came out and this is only the second time I watched it and I couldn't remember how it ended. But I'm the type of person who likes knowing what's going on. So like I like spoilers and it helps me enjoy movies because you know, if something doesn't make sense right away, I'll get bored. But that's Just me. This is a good movie. And if you're like me, I would say be patient and watch and they will all make sense. Five stars. Suspense. Pay attention, guys.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I just realized something that's really fucking me up. I watched this movie on Amazon prime, okay? And 23 is a prime number.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It'S fucking real. Here we go.

[Paul Scheer]

All right, I have two quick ones here. This is from Dominic Calandra. My name is Dominic Joseph Calarondra. If you count the spaces as characters, there are 23 characters in my name. I was born on 12 17. 1793. It adds up to 23. Or if you prefer, 12 +17 -9 +3 is equal to 23. I checked the time right after the character turns to look at the clock. His said 11:12. Mine said 9. 23. Checked again later in the movie at a random time. What time was it? 9:59. Added up. I had a friend who was born on March 23rd. We have 23 mutual Facebook friends. She said she couldn't remember a large amount of her childhood. I never found out why exactly. Coincidences. But Jesus, that's weird. Stay safe. Safe. Five stars. Am I Top Secrets?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Stay safe. Am I Top Secrets? Top Secrets. And serious Leary. Dr. Sirius Leary. And Top Secrets.

[June Diane Raphael]

This is some next level detective Fingerling.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is.

[Paul Scheer]

I feel like this.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I feel like this movie is a prank.

[Paul Scheer]

That's what I'm saying. It plays at parts like it is a prank.

[June Diane Raphael]

Feel utter ill. Oh, my God. I really don't feel well. I really don't.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Secrets. Top Secrets is some next level stuff.

[Paul Scheer]

Like, because you also feel like they like. But this is also. We have to just briefly just mention like Joel Schumacher. I feel like he's like, yeah, Top Secrets. I like it. Like, like, I feel like it's like, oh, yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

Like, you know, he's so crazy because it's like that's not a name name. Topsy is not.

[Paul Scheer]

Topsy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Topsy Krets. What are you talking about? Of course it is. It's Topsy Krets. You know my very serious girlfriend Topsy Krets, right?

[Paul Scheer]

Written by Anonymous. Oh, my gosh. The tagline for this movie, the truth will find you. First it takes hold of your money. Another one first takes a hold of your mind. Then it takes hold of your life. Or finally, the other tagline, A number is just a number. Or is it?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What's amazing is that Bud Court, Dr. Sirius Leary also still crazy. He having the manuscript that says by Jim Carrey's character name. I can't remember what it is, he put. He puts top secrets open. So he invents the name Top Secrets. That's so he must. I mean, like, he, he. He's like, well, the name should be top secret, but I can't just say top secret. Top secrets.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay. That I want to know what that journey is.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, it, it feels like a dumb person trying to be clever. And I say that in the nicest way. It's like top secret. Because it's also like, it's not a top secret that he's like, top secrets is not that. Like, what it should be is like an.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

An. Any of us think of it. We saw the name and heard the name over and over again. And it wasn't until that prison scene where. Where the guy goes, yeah, the author. Top secret. That I was like, oh, no, I know.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, because my thought would be the, the better take on it would be that it's his name, right? Like Walter Sparrow. And you. You anagram that or like, you know, or Sparrow's Nest or Sparrow's Brain, you know, some version of his name. Like, I am Walter Sparrow, you know, but we. But you know, it's like, I don't even know how you would be. But it's like, it's not top secret. It's not top secret.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Anyway, it's ridiculous.

[Paul Scheer]

Folks. This is, this is a. This is a fun one. I mean, wow. And it represents to me.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's unfinished. Because you. You. You didn't get closure.

[June Diane Raphael]

No.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, God. All right, well, at that point.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Thanks a lot, Paul.

[Paul Scheer]

Sorry, guys. Thank you. Evil. Anyone want to. Want to plug anything that they got?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I will plug. And it's. This is not a plug, but it is just a full throated, full hearted recommendation. The movie of the year, Paul, you told me about it. I've watched it. It's called Plane and it is incredible.

[Paul Scheer]

June and I saw that in the theater. It was so fun.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Incredible.

[Paul Scheer]

There's part of me that's like, should we do that on this show? Only because I would love to just talk about it and maybe we should.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Let's revel. Let's revel.

[Paul Scheer]

Let's love it back. It's on VOD and oh, my gosh. And. And again, it's just a giant shout out to Gerard Butler for giving us that amazing geostorm. You can see it on all of our socials. I love that he did that during the plane premiere. But yeah, if you are interested in playing, let us know on the discord or on Social and maybe we should just tackle it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I know that it's fantastic. I loved it. Having a blast.

[Paul Scheer]

It was great. It's like a solid movie. Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, it's. It's terrific. I loved every goddamn minute of it. Please put me in plane two.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We just want to be in planes.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, by the way, I want to go. I want to go this way we can get into it bigger. But I think there needs to be a prequel or sequel with Skarsgrd. I want to see Mike Coulter do his incredible. That's another movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

His. His Foreign Legion service. Or.

[Paul Scheer]

Or I would.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I would be into next for him as well. Whatever. Wherever he goes next.

[Paul Scheer]

Amen.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I thought he was fantastic as well. Absolutely.

[Paul Scheer]

What else are you up to, Jason?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I want to. Oh, you know what? I want to plug. I was. I did two recent appearances on some other terrific podcasts that I want to get.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Out there. I was a guest on the fantastic Earwolf podcast tv I say with Ashley Ray, which is a fantastic show. Uh, I did a great year. If you like the. There's the recommendation episodes that Paul and I do on the Last Looks. This was a year end recommendation list with me and Ashley Rae. It's a fantastic show. And then I just did an episode of our friend Kulap Vilaisak has a wonderful. And. And suchin Pak have a wonderful podcast called Add to Cart. And I just did a whole episode. That is no joke, everybody. A secret pilot for Zoox cubes.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way, I first of all upset that you did Zoox cubes off of the. How did this get made main feed.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm so sorry. I mean, let's be honest. It's not real cubes.

[Paul Scheer]

It's actors. You gave me a cube for my birthday. I'm so excited about it. But it opened my mind to what a cube is. And maybe in Last Looks we should talk about it a little bit because I need to understand.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Did you notice that it stands flat when you open it? Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

And I'm like, this is not how I. Cause what my cubes have been are simply. Just. By the way, if you're not hearing June's voice, she's not just sitting here quietly. She had to go. They're just like little formless bags. That's like the cubes I've been working.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, that. What I gave you is more of something to carry. Like, you know, it's a. It's got a little bit of padding, it's got a little bit of organization. So that is more for like, I have one of those that I tra. When I travel with like an Apple TV and some cords and a camera, and it's like a. Cuz it has a little bit of padding. I put like, electronics in that cube there.

[Paul Scheer]

There's a. Like, I have a. I have a little electronic. We'll get it. I want to hear. I'm going to listen into Add to Cart. Add to Cart is a great show. It's super fun.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Add to Cart is a blast. And I just.

[Paul Scheer]

They.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

They ask people to. To bring products or things that they like or enjoy and want to talk about. And so I just took it the opportunity to talk about backpacks and packing cubes and my favorite card game, Monopoly Deal, which I also gave you, which is.

[Paul Scheer]

Which was amazing. And I got to play that with my kids. I will tell you that the. The thing that you've gotten our family hooked on is Flushing Frenzy, which is a. Which is basically a toilet roulette. You roll a dice, you crank a toilet, and then you plunge it. And then if you. You lose by when the poop shoots out and then literally a poop with eyes. It's the best game of all.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It is. It is a game that the game item is a toilet that you plunge and a poop shoots out the top and whoever catches the poop gets the point.

[Paul Scheer]

Come on.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's a fucking great game.

[Paul Scheer]

It's a great game. Now I will. I will also just talk about a podcast. I. And I wanted to ask your question. I wanted to ask you a question about it. So I did Dax Shepard's podcast.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sure. Armchair Exercise.

[Paul Scheer]

They love you. Love you.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, yeah. He and Monica.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes. They talk so highly of you. I've never been reached out to more in my life about being on a podcast than I was after that show. Did you find that too?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes, absolutely. Like, my cousins reached out to me. People who. People who I don't think have ever listened to any other podcast listen to that podcast.

[Paul Scheer]

You know, I think that we do the show for such a long time that, like, no one tells us, like, hey, I heard your show, or whatever. So it's nice when. When you hear, like, feedback that it doesn't just go into the ether. All right, so that is it, Jason. I think I'm going to take your challenge and we're going to make Bud Courts Crazy Room. Or maybe should it be Dr. Serious.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Dr. Serious.

[Paul Scheer]

Ly. Dr. Seriously's crazy room. We should maybe like, make it like a bar shirt. Like, like, it's like a, like it almost looks like an advertisement for a bar.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like something like that. Like it's a logo.

[Paul Scheer]

Maybe that's the way to go. So check out t public there. And people, make sure you listen to last looks because we got some big surprises coming up. We always have good special guests. Jason and I are breaking down a lot of stuff. We're getting into cubes, we're going to get into podcasts, everything there. And a big thank you to our entire team. I'm taught talking about the amazing producerial work of Scott Sahni, Molly Reynolds and our movie picking producer, Avril Halley, our engineer Alex Gonzalez and our publisher July Diaz. People, they make the trains run and we love them. So we will see you next week for Last Looks. And until then, bye for now.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

At Ameca Insurance, we know it's more than just a house.

[Paul Scheer]

Your home, the place that's filled with memories, the early days of figuring it out to the later years of still figuring it out for the place you've put down roots. Trust Amica Home Insurance.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Amica empathy is our best policy.

[June Diane Raphael]

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[Paul Scheer]

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[June Diane Raphael]

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[Paul Scheer]

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[June Diane Raphael]

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[Paul Scheer]

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[June Diane Raphael]

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