Tough Guys Don't Dance (Classic)

Summary

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How Did This Get Made? — "Tough Guys Don’t Dance" (Classic)

Podcast: How Did This Get Made?
Hosts: Paul Scheer, June Diane Raphael, Jason Mantzoukas
Original Airdate: June 23, 2026
Movie Discussed: Tough Guys Don’t Dance (1987, dir. Norman Mailer)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the 1987 cult oddity “Tough Guys Don’t Dance,” written and directed by literary giant Norman Mailer and starring Ryan O’Neal and Isabella Rossellini. The hosts, through their trademark blend of incredulity and hilarity, pick apart what Paul dubs a “Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride” of a cinematic experience—one dense with bizarre dialogue, inexplicable plot turns, Southern accents in New England, and a legendary “Oh, God! Oh, man!” meme moment. The trio debates whether the film’s outrageousness is artful intent, accidental camp, or just straight-up bad.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Initial Reactions & Emotional Damage [01:55-06:38]

• Jason Mantzoukas: “I felt unwell while watching this.” [02:58]
• June Diane Raphael: “It threw me back to March 13, 2020…chaos and panic and I hated this film.” [03:06]
• The group jokes about needing class action lawsuits and therapy after sitting through the film.
• Paul playfully asks if he’s at fault for assigning the movie.

2. The Movie as a Punishing Endurance Test [05:44-10:08]

• Jason: “Why did you make me watch this 1 hour and 50 minute tone poem of insanity?” [05:28]
• June: “You can handle pretty much anything when it’s an hour and 20 minutes…I can’t do and I won’t do is watch an hour and 50.” [05:47]
• The runtime—nearly two hours—felt like an eternity, especially for a “bad movie.”

3. Comparisons to ‘The Room’ & Surreal Experience [06:38-07:14]

• Paul: “It reminded me very much of The Room, but…The Room is much better than this.” [06:38]
• Jason: “The Room had a plot that was easier to follow.” [07:01]

4. Bizarre Tone, Flashbacks, and Lack of Logic [22:07-24:05]

• Unreliable storytelling, layers of flashbacks, and multiple narrators make it incomprehensible.
• Jason: “There’s a flashback inside of a flashback. Fuck this movie. Also multiple voiceover narrators.” [23:47]

5. Mailer Out of His Element [27:16-30:41]

• The group recounts Mailer’s credentials: Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist, adapted his own book, with Robert Towne (Chinatown) consulting and Francis Ford Coppola producing.
• Yet, the movie is a mess from start to finish. Premiered at Cannes—to derision.
• The film’s trailer (played and discussed) embraces negative reviews, which the hosts mock.

6. Toxic Masculinity, Homophobia, and Bad Impressions [30:13-47:04]

• June: “Fuck Norman Mailer. I think the guy’s a homophobic, sexist fucking maniac.” [30:13]
• Every character is “broad,” overwrought, and seemingly modeled on Southern stereotypes—despite the Massachusetts setting.
• Multiple monologues obsess over masculine identity, sexual prowess, and a pervasively negative attitude toward women and gay men.

7. The Movie’s Legendary ‘Oh God, Oh Man’ Scene [61:07-62:47]

• The infamously bad moment where Ryan O’Neal, after reading a letter, breaks down, wailing “Oh, God! Oh, Man! Oh, God! Oh, Man!”—an internet meme staple.
• The hosts play the audio, cracking up and noting that Mailer wanted this bad-acting style.
• Paul: “Norman Mailer…really loved the bad acting. I think he edged it. Like, he was like, more of that.” [62:42]

8. Wild Theories: Is the Father a Tyler Durden Figure? [55:21-58:28]

• Paul: proposes that Ryan O’Neal’s character’s father isn’t real, but a Fight Club-style manifestation—offering the only way the logic makes sense.
• Jason & June: Concede it’s an interesting theory, but “gives the movie way too much credit.” [58:18]

9. Confusing Plot and Character Soup [22:43-44:41]

• Characters blend together, motivations are muddled, and the setting (Provincetown) is full of inexplicable Southern voices.
• Gore, sex, drug plots, and sudden dog murder all receive the same flat, lurid treatment.

10. Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “He’s like, I like two humps a day. Two different women, every day.” —Paul quoting cop character [50:31]
• “My pussy hair was bright gold in high school until I went out and scorched it with the football team.” —June reading bad dialogue from the film [41:01]
• “He’s holding a hammer, bloodied from hitting Norman Mailer in the head…It’s fucking nuts.” —Jason, describing behind-the-scenes chaos on another Mailer film [31:54]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• [02:58] Jason: “This was a difficult movie to get through. I felt unwell while watching this.”
• [03:06] June: “It really threw me into chaos and panic and I. I hated this film.”
• [07:01] Jason: “The Room had a plot that was easier to follow.”
• [23:47] Jason: “A flashback inside a flashback. Fuck this movie. Also multiple voiceover narrators.”
• [30:13] June: “Fuck Norman Mailer. I think the guy’s a homophobic, sexist fucking maniac.”
• [41:01] June (quoting movie): “My pussy hair was bright gold in high school until I went out and scorched it with the football team.”
• [46:43] Jason: “Mailer really trying in the mouth of every character…Every character is homophobic to another character in some way.”
• [55:21] Paul: “Can I tell you my theory? He is not real…a Tyler Durden situation?”
• [61:07] Jason & Paul (the ‘Oh, God! Oh, man!’ breakdown): “Oh, God, oh, man! Oh, God, oh, man!” (audio played, hosts howling with laughter)
• [67:54] Jason: “This is bad. I would not recommend people watch this, of course.”

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Other Highlights

• Disneyland Tangent ([09:59-20:45]): Paul tries (and fails) to sell Jason on the magic of Disneyland, sparking a hilarious detour on theme parks, family vacations, and introverted extroverts.
• Norman Mailer vs. Rip Torn In Real Life ([31:35-34:09]): Jason recalls the infamous behind-the-scenes incident from another Mailer film where Rip Torn attacked Mailer with a hammer—underscoring the director’s chaotic reputation.

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Second Opinions & Final Thoughts [63:34-68:16]

• Five-Star Reviews Read: Paul highlights “some of the best dialogue in a movie you’ll ever find,” according to die-hard Mailer fans and people actually involved (!).
• Would They Recommend Watching?
  • Jason: “I would not recommend people watch this, of course.” [67:54]
  • June: Only for the “Oh, God! Oh, man!” scene; otherwise, “I needed more [weed] gummies… I’ll never turn it on again.” [68:16]
• Paul: Enjoys the film as a bizarre experience, especially when sober, and riffs on imaginary metrics (“how many gummies does it take to finish?”).

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The Verdict (and Why It’s a Notorious Bad Movie)

• “Tough Guys Don’t Dance” is, in the trio’s estimation, a failed art film—clumsy in execution, nonsensical in plot, and deeply retrograde in attitude. It is, however, a goldmine for fans of movie disasters, quotable bad acting, and surreal, meme-worthy moments.
• Jason: “It is unsettling to say the least. I felt like I was in an active blackout.” [69:56]
• The “Oh, God! Oh, man!” breakdown is recommended viewing for all fans of cinematic trainwrecks.

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [02:58] — Jason and June’s pained first impressions
• [06:38] — Paul & Jason compare to ‘The Room’
• [22:07] — Flashbacks, unreliable narrators, and broad accents
• [27:16] — Norman Mailer’s artistic failure & Cannes disaster
• [30:13] — June’s Mailer take (“homophobic, sexist…maniac”)
• [41:01] — The film’s insane party/cuckolding/sex dialogue
• [55:21] — Paul’s “the father isn’t real” theory
• [61:07] — “Oh God! Oh Man!” scene
• [63:34] — Second Opinions (Amazon 5-stars)
• [67:54] — Would they recommend it?
• [68:30+] — More about surviving with weed gummies

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Summary

The “How Did This Get Made?” team deconstructs "Tough Guys Don’t Dance" as a cinematic oddity that exceeds even their high threshold for baffling, “so-bad-it’s-good” movies. It’s a wild ride—one that leaves the hosts confused, offended, sometimes amused, and desperate for either a nap or a class-action lawsuit. The episode is a carnival of quotable lines, sharp-tongued takedowns, and sidebars about Disneyland, introverts, and failed masculinity.

If you’re a fan of movie disasters, the infamous “Oh, God! Oh, Man!” scene is a must-watch—but the consensus is crystal clear: you don’t need (or maybe even want) to see the whole movie to enjoy this classic HDTGM breakdown.

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Transcript

[Jason Mantzoukas]

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[June Diane Raphael]

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[Paul Scheer]

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[June Diane Raphael]

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[Paul Scheer]

Oh, God, oh, man. Oh, God, oh, man. Oh, God, oh, man. We saw Tough guys don't Dance, so you know what that means. Now it's time for

[Jason Mantzoukas]

we're gonna have a good time.

[Paul Scheer]

Celebrate some failure, not just be a hater. Cause you know you won'. How did this remain?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Let's wallow in the mediocrity of subpar art. Perhaps we'll find the answer to the question, how did this get made?

[Paul Scheer]

Hello, people of Earth, and welcome to how did this Get Made? I am Paul Scheer, and this week we are talking about a movie. A movie. Wow. This. This one I have been just waiting to discuss with my two co hosts. If you don't know anything about it, it is written and directed by Norman Mailer. It is adapted from a book. And that's all I'll say, because those are the only things I am positive about. It stars Ryan o', Neill, Isabella Rossellini.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm not even positive it is. I'm not even positive that's true.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, let's get into it all. Please welcome my co hosts, Jason Mantzoukas and Ms. June, Diane Rayfield. How are you both?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I didn't. I did not care. This was a difficult movie to get through. I felt unwell while watching this.

[June Diane Raphael]

I. I agree. Like, to me, this was a movie where I was like, God damn it. Like, I'm. I'm coming out of the pandemic. I'm feeling great. I'm feeling positive about the future. And this threw me back to March 13, 2020. Like, it really did. It really threw me into chaos and panic and I. I hated this film.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I felt. I felt insane while watching it. I felt like I was being. I felt like the movie was harming me. Like, I felt. I feel like I asked, I contacted my lawyer to see if we can be part of, like, a class action lawsuit.

[June Diane Raphael]

Honestly, do we have. And also, like, do we have insurance? You know, like, as members?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Such a good question.

[Paul Scheer]

Like, look, all I'm going to say is you get it. You're not. And getting it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And Paul, are we. Are you to blame or are you part of our class action lawsuit or are we suing you for making us watch this?

[June Diane Raphael]

Because honestly, Jason, let me just say, like, write an email to yourself today that just sort of documents all the injuries you've sustained since.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm going to be honest. I wrote myself an email last night after I watched the movie.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So that it would be dated. I opened it this morning and it only said, help me.

[June Diane Raphael]

Good. And, like, holds up. We get the New York Times. Like, I'm going to take a picture of myself holding it up.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

And do a little video.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Just like a hostage. Proof of life. It's a proof of life video.

[June Diane Raphael]

Last night, you know, and this is how I feel today. And this is what's happened to me.

[Paul Scheer]

You two sound like a bunch of people on the Discord. Like, oh, this movie, I didn't like it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

People never been on the Discord. The show is called I'm not aware. Never.

[Paul Scheer]

The show is called how did this get Made? Not, thank God this was made. People are shocked when they're like, oh, this movie wasn't good. No shit. When did you check in on it, by the way? Just so you both know, there is a Zookas zone in the Discord where people just post memes of you and there's a deep dive zone in there. So a lot of. A lot of chat, a lot of things going on in there.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, I'm sure there's, you know, I'm sure there's lots of great stuff going on on the Discord.

[Paul Scheer]

I Just, I just haven't put on it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Especially if there's a bunch of complainers complaining about the choice. Oh, well, people, I might go on the discord now to be part of the cacophony of voices saying, why did you choose this movie, Paul? Why did you make me watch this 1 hour and 50 minute tone poem of insanity about.

[June Diane Raphael]

And that's the thing, Pa. You know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes, Paul, you know.

[June Diane Raphael]

You know you can handle pretty much anything when it's an hour and 20 minutes.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes, I do know.

[June Diane Raphael]

I can't do and I won't do is watch an hour and 50. This was a.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, you took a weed gummy before you started. So you really put. You really. You really put an obstacle in front of you. When you took that weed gummy. I looked at you, I was like, oh, well, this is, this was also.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And I don't know if this. I think we've talked about this before, but this was also another one of those movies that for me, I was not enjoying it so much and was so uncomfortable so often that I kept taking breaks, which only made it last longer. If I had just sat down and watched it start to finish, boom, I would have been done. But instead, it probably took me three and a half hours to complete this room.

[June Diane Raphael]

For sure. I just finished it. You are wrong.

[Paul Scheer]

You are wrong. You are watching. This is a masterwork. A masterwork. I will say this. Fuck, Norman, man. It reminded me very much of the room, but I actually think the room is much better than this.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I wrote the same thing. Yes, but I mean, I wrote the same thing.

[Paul Scheer]

100%.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The room is more enjoyable. The room has like. If I'm going to. I'm about to say something really wild.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The room had a plot that was easier to follow.

[Paul Scheer]

1. I was just going to say. I was going to say if you put. If you put like a blind taste test and said, who made what movie? I would say, well, I think Norman Miller made.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm not going to taste either of these movies. If you're going to distill these movies into a liquid, I am not putting either of them in my.

[Paul Scheer]

Lick the bald scalp of Lawrence Turney. Here's what I'll say. I don't know if you all ever

[Jason Mantzoukas]

say, lick the bald scalp again.

[Paul Scheer]

That's the T shirt. Lick the bald scalp.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, God.

[Paul Scheer]

The. All right, so here is.

[June Diane Raphael]

By the way, isn't everybody glad the movie is over? Oh, my God, we don't. I have such a relief to it.

[Paul Scheer]

I was watching it by myself. And when it was over, I literally just sat in bed and, and, and had a moment with myself with the film. And, and what happened in that meditative moment was that I came out stronger for it. Like, I was like, I don't know what I feel.

[June Diane Raphael]

I'm ask you a question, Paul, because, Jason, just so you know, yes, I did I take a weed gummy before? Yeah, I did. And thank God, by the way, like, the injuries I would be sustaining now without that weed gummy, like. Agreed, thank God.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I feel like I, while watching this went into like a disassociative state state. Like, I feel like I went into like some sort of like fight or flight instincts were triggered and I went into like, I, I, I retreated into my interior life, into my mind because I was so unsettled by the movie.

[June Diane Raphael]

So this is what I was gonna say. Thank God I took that wig on me. But like, I sit there when Paul says it's time to watch the movie. I said, okay, let me get my journal out, let me get a pen, let me get my comfy cozies, and I'm gonna sit, let me take a weed gummy and I'm going to watch the movie. Now Paul sits and he's checking clipper scores. He's sometimes watching other videos.

[Paul Scheer]

Whoa.

[June Diane Raphael]

He's doing all manner of thing. He's on what? Maybe he's on Discord. He's responding to things.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's on the discord, watching it right

[June Diane Raphael]

now, guys, looking up things, responding to people. And I on Instagram. And I'm like, I don't know how you even saw the movie. And now I'm like, how did you watch the movie? And you, I don't think you did the work that Jason and I did.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I agree.

[June Diane Raphael]

Sitting there and staring at it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I bet Paul, like didn't even look at the screen during the five minutes of empty New England streets and beaches.

[Paul Scheer]

That was the beginning of New England.

[June Diane Raphael]

No, he has an ability to like, to multitask.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes, I do not.

[June Diane Raphael]

Really, I do not.

[Paul Scheer]

I am a very, I, I have a brain that can jump there. I think it's slightly defective brain, but that's where I. Strong.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. The one, two punch that really made me scared was canon films.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay, sure.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

One hour and 50 minutes. Whoa. Well, you can't have a canon films movie that's this long. Canon films movie has to be like an hour and 20 minutes.

[Paul Scheer]

87. 87 minutes is their sweet spot. I want to say one thing about this film and my experience with this film. After the first handful of minutes when it was very clear to me that we were in for a wild ride. Mr. Toads. There was a. Yeah, Mr. Toad.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. Akin to Mr. Toad's, by the way.

[Paul Scheer]

I just went on that this week with my. With my two young boys. We had a great time on Mr. Toad's wild ride. They didn't seem to mind that we went to hell, which is what? One of the darker rides in Disneyland that you get hit by a train and then you go to hell. That is how the ride ends.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So tacitly, one might understand in the context of the ride that you have passed away.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes, you do. You have been forced to.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's forcing children to face their own mortality. Interesting choice for a ride.

[Paul Scheer]

I loved it as a child. They were like, oh, I can't wait to get to the hell part. I can't wait to die. Which is dark. As I said that out loud.

[June Diane Raphael]

I'm surprised that he still has Mr. Toads up like they have.

[Paul Scheer]

Only at Disneyland. And it's only at Disneyland.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And I've never been to a. Mr. I've never been to Disneyland.

[June Diane Raphael]

Interesting.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Never been to Disneyland.

[June Diane Raphael]

What?

[Paul Scheer]

Whoa.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Never been what? Wow. Sorry. Sorry, guys. Huge reveal in this episode. I've never been to Disneyland.

[June Diane Raphael]

Have you been to Disney World as a child?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We went twice.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, we got to go to Disney.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, my gosh. We got to go.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I've never. I've never. I mean, we did that festival.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes, technically.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Was that in time?

[June Diane Raphael]

That was not at Disney? No.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, so. So then I have not been to Disneyland, because that's the only time I've ever been to Anaheim was for that podcast season.

[June Diane Raphael]

Is that like a. Are you anti Disney?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm not a big. I'll say this. I'm not a big theme park person in general. Jason.

[Paul Scheer]

Jason.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Six Flags Disney.

[Paul Scheer]

It's not the same. It's not the same. It looks okay. Disney is its own thing. But first of all, I mean, we gotta get you to Batuu.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Paul just got so animated.

[Paul Scheer]

It was amazing.

[June Diane Raphael]

I honestly thought you were gonna end the podcast. I didn't know what happened.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It was exciting.

[Paul Scheer]

It was Six Flags and dis in the same sentence. It's not.

[June Diane Raphael]

I do agree with that. Now, listen, I have become a Disney person since being with Paul. Like, I started off, I think probably where you are, Jason, which was like, oh, it seems like too much, and it's a headache, and there's so many people and so much going on, but I've kind of turned into a Disney person. And even before having kids.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, that's what I was just gonna ask. Cause I can totally understand and could see going with children being a very rewarding experience, you know, and, like, very fun and infectious fun. I would love to go with kids to Harry Potter World or Galaxy's Edge or, you know, all that.

[Paul Scheer]

You would love Galaxy's Edge as an adult. Marvel's campus as an adult.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Thinking about it, going with, like, other adults or something like that. It just doesn't. Like I said it doesn't. Like, that's not one of my. It doesn't interest me all that much. Theme parks in general.

[June Diane Raphael]

Going on rides?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Not particularly. I mean, I will, you know, but

[Paul Scheer]

I want to change your mind. I want to change your mind. I want to change your mind because I. I think you would specifically enjoy some of the things at the Marvel campus. I think you would. You know, they have a Pimm's food laboratory where everything is either very, very big or very, very small.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But some of that blue milk. I want some of that blue milk.

[Paul Scheer]

Blue milk is good. I think the green milk is a little bit better. Okay, well, there's so much to get into there. Here's what I was to say. Here's what I was to say to all of you, which is. When I see a movie like this, the way I approach it is this. I can sit there and I can try to make sense of this film as if it is supposed to make sense. Or. And this is maybe a terrible analogy, but I'll say this. It's as if the plane is going down. And when they say, oh, everybody make sure you buckle up because the plane is going down, I'm going to be like, let me unbuckle my seatbelt, because there's no way I'm getting out of this. So let me flop around this cabin because I'd rather be shooting up and down in.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But you think you have a choice in that matter? So you're gonna unbuckle your seatbelt.

[Paul Scheer]

Yep.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But, Paul, I just wanna make sure you understand you might cause irreparable damage to other people in the park.

[Paul Scheer]

I'm making a judgment call that we're

[Jason Mantzoukas]

all gone, we're all going down, so

[Paul Scheer]

why not die with, like, my, like,

[Jason Mantzoukas]

you know, my elbow in a pinball machine?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

Like, if the thing is, in 25 seconds, we're all going to be dead.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Here's.

[Paul Scheer]

Why not just go out with some. I don't want to be like, head into knees.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Okay, interesting.

[June Diane Raphael]

Even though.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Even though that might, you know, that's

[Paul Scheer]

not going to save anything. Here's.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I feel like when I. When I watch these movies, like, if Sully.

[Paul Scheer]

I wouldn't do it. If. Like, we were in a Sully situation.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But you don't. I don't think. I don't think the pilots come on and say, hello, folks. So we're in a Sully scenario. So we're going to be okay.

[Paul Scheer]

Judge it. I'll be able to judge it.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We're in a. All hope is lost. So feel free to unbuckle and pinball

[June Diane Raphael]

around the cab whatever way you want to go out right now, it's dealers.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is yours.

[Paul Scheer]

We don't. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know what they say.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know what we're declaring this is. There are no rules. If you want to take your mask off, you can.

[Paul Scheer]

If. If the back of that fuselage popped off, like in Lost. I'm unbuckling, baby.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Let's get. If you want to go in the bathroom barefoot, go right ahead. You monster.

[June Diane Raphael]

Here's what I'll say to you. If I saw we were going to nosedive and like, a part of the plane was coming off, I would maybe take my chance in unbuckling and trying to fly out into the air.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, that I understand.

[Paul Scheer]

I'm just saying. June. I'm not.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wait a minute.

[June Diane Raphael]

You want to hear the funniest story?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I thought June and I were united in thinking Paul's choice was insane. And then, June, you just said you think you might be able to fly out of the plane and fly in air. In space.

[Paul Scheer]

Who is Team Fred now? Who's Team Fred now? And who's Team Sanity?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You think you might be able to Wonder Woman this.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. If I could grab a couple blankets.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You think you're gonna have a couple blankets and create a squirrel suit? A flying squirrel suit.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's what I'm. Squirrel suit. Yeah. If I knew we were like, okay, we're probably heading into, like, a nose dive. Like, there's no way this plane is landing. I might take my chances that way. Ye.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow.

[June Diane Raphael]

I might.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow.

[Paul Scheer]

Wow.

[June Diane Raphael]

So the funniest thing.

[Paul Scheer]

Sanity come back up.

[June Diane Raphael]

Casey Wilson's dad told me once that. That. And then we'll get back to the movie eventually.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But do we need to. I'd rather have.

[June Diane Raphael]

Frankly, I'd rather have this conversation. So she told me that there was. Her dad was on a flight from, like, D.C. to New York. Really, really quick flight. And sometimes they fly low and hit a ton of turbulence. There Was a storm. There's a guy in a business suit who's sitting there. Now the flights can't get up and it's a short flight, but he's having a full panic attack. Gets up out of his seat on buckles like Paul and just starts heading toward the exit door screaming, I got to get out of here.

[Paul Scheer]

Got to get out of here.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, no.

[June Diane Raphael]

And the flight attendants and other passengers have to restrain him to the ground. And there's a flag that keeps on screaming at him like, sir, you're on a plane. Like there's nowhere to go. But he was just fully in a panic spiral, screaming like, well, I'm not even cc.

[Paul Scheer]

I'm. I'm being much more deliberative. I'm just being like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's what I feel like I would be like at Disneyland. I feel like I would be running towards exit screaming, I gotta get out of here. I gotta get out of here.

[June Diane Raphael]

Listen, it is hard to go during the pandemic now because there's no real refuge. Like, there's no. I only go to Disney because the way Paul does Disney and Paul has an energy level that's not normal for kids.

[Paul Scheer]

Tell them. Tell them how I took the kids. What did I do with the kids?

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, so we went the first day we went and it was really fun. We came back from our vacation and the kids thought they were going home and we like left LAX and surprised them by turning into Disney. So they were just like, so cool done. And it was really, really special. But so we get there that night, the next morning we wake up and it's like we're going into the park, but we like, we stay at the. What is it called? Grand California.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, Grand California.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[June Diane Raphael]

And it's like a nice hotel at Disney, but I need that space to go back to.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Right.

[Paul Scheer]

You need like, you need what the kids need, like, or what younger kids need at Disney. Like a nap time. Like, you have to like a refuge.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, yeah, I do, I do.

[Paul Scheer]

And I need to be in like

[June Diane Raphael]

a quiet room, quiet, dark room and be quiet.

[Paul Scheer]

I felt like. And I didn't say this to you, I didn't say this to you in real life, but I'm gonna say it to you now in the podcast and see how this lands.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But to be clear, this is real life.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Ye. Yes. Oh, yeah. That. I felt like you co opted our youngest to enjoy that trip where he may not have needed that. Like, he may not have needed that retreat, but I feel like he was caught up in it. Cause the next day when I was with him, he said to me multiple times, I'm not tired.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, maybe that's because. So the next day I did one day, and then I came back. Cause I had something to do, and I left really early in the morning. Paul took the kid by himself for Disney and literally left the hotel room at 9am and they got back to our home. Never went back to that hotel room at like 10. Okay.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What?

[June Diane Raphael]

And I did see one two days in the park.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Or just the one two days in the park. Two days in the park.

[June Diane Raphael]

But Paul did a full day in the park with him by himself, and they never went back to rest. Now, I also feel I'm going to say this about men in general, and I know this is a generalization, but men don't appreciate rest as much as women.

[Paul Scheer]

I buy that. Yes, I do.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So I'll be honest. I love that rest, baby.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, I think we.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Give me that. Give me that quiet time.

[June Diane Raphael]

But, like, I need to. There's only so much kind of public facing I can do, and then I need to go get quiet.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, yeah. No, I need to shut it down. I need to shut down.

[Paul Scheer]

I believe myself and. And Jun was going to laugh real hard here, but I believe myself to be an introverted extrovert. My want is to be.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Sorry, wait, you said an introverted extrovert?

[Paul Scheer]

Yes. Yeah, like, my want.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I just want to make sure.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, like, my want is to be back home. My want is to. But when I'm out, I'm like, well, now I'm out. Now I'm gonna go out. But I. But when I'm out and I feel like a little tinge or pull. I'll go. I'll pull the ripcord. I, like, I. I fight with that a lot internally, like going home versus going out.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, but by the way, this is why I think our youngest didn't need a rest, because Paul sent me a picture of him from, like, his day alone with the boys at. At breakfast time. And they were sitting outside a Starbucks and he was drinking basically like a brownie sundae.

[Paul Scheer]

It was a chocolate tired.

[June Diane Raphael]

He's Is a kite.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's. He's having a red eye.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah. Anyway, Jason, I am curious what you'd think of Disney and it would be fun to go, you know, on a.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, maybe we can do it for the show somehow.

[Paul Scheer]

I would. I would love. We should bring a recorder and we take breaks every, like, hour or so. And we could check in. I would love to do that. Now, what I was saying with my airplane analogy was I think a movie like this really pays off much bigger dividends if you are dipping in, dipping out, feeling like, I don't need to understand it because when you loosen yourself into it, like, if I try to make sense of this, I'm gonna be beside myself.

[June Diane Raphael]

I was as loose as I could get.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, here's my feeling is I try and meet the movie on its terms.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know what I mean? Like, knowing what we're talk. Knowing, like, my expectations with the movies that we do are that things are going to be wrong, off, weird, whatever. So I try and come to it being like, my expectations are. That's what's in store for me.

[June Diane Raphael]

Right.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This movie, though, was so uncomfortable. And so it is uncomfortable settling that I couldn't. To be inside of it felt awful. Well, to be inside of this provincetown world, this New England world that. That looks like my hometown, that looks like places and things I know, and then have it be full, chalk chock full of the broadest southern accents I've ever heard in my life. Like, how many.

[June Diane Raphael]

You said people like chalk chock full. And I was also like, well, you said this movie is chalk. And I was like, yeah, that it is chalk.

[Paul Scheer]

It is this movie.

[June Diane Raphael]

And I don't know why it is.

[Paul Scheer]

I would say all these performers oddly look alike. Like, there was moments where I was. There were moments where I was like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I agree.

[Paul Scheer]

I was like, the cop kind of looks like the other husb. Ryan o' Neill kind of looks at the cop. And at one point I was like, is that even Ryan o'? Neill? I'm not even sure anymore. I will say this.

[June Diane Raphael]

I just know I don't like any of them. That's all I know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, if you told me they shot this movie over the course of 11 years, I would believe you. Because sometimes they look young, sometimes they look old. Like there's. There's no consistency. Like the scenes in which he's talking with his father and recounting the events of the, like, flashback sequence number one. There's the spine of the movie where Ryan o'. Neal. Present tense. Ryan o' Neal is sitting talking to his father and they are just flashing back, which is the body of the movie is these long flashbacks, though, because

[June Diane Raphael]

then we get caught up to that time and we got about 45 more minutes left of the movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Exactly. Yes. The third act is present. Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

But there are flashbacks in the flashbacks as well. But here's the one thing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I wrote that down when they Flashback to He's a bartender. I was like, oh no. A flashback inside of a flashback. Fuck this movie. Also multiple voiceover narrators. Multiple narrators.

[Paul Scheer]

FX is the Bear. The Emmy award winning series returns for its final season. With no money, the threat of a sale, and a torrential storm in their way, the team bands together to achieve one last service. Can they earn that coveted Michelin star? I love this show. I cannot wait to see how it ends. I don't want it to end, but we're gonna have a great, great ride. Getting there. FX's the Bear the Final Season premieres June 25th on FX. All episodes streaming on Hulu Mint Mobile. Plans are only $15 a month. I mean, what's the catch? Well, here's the thing. There isn't one. There's no gimmicks, no gotchas. Just unlimited talk, text and data, fast, reliable coverage on the nation's largest 5G network, and an award winning care team that makes Mint Mobile a catch. I mean, honestly, what else do you need? You can bring your current phone number and phone with you. Plus you can choose from three six or 12 month plans and say goodbye to a monthly bill. To get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com HDTGM that's mintmobile.com HDTGM cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.comHDTGM that's it. There's no catch. $45 upfront payment required. Equivalent to $15 a month new customers on first three month plan only speed slower above 40 gig on unlimited plan. Additional taxes and fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. Look, we are so hesitant to upgrade our sleeping situation. It's hard. What do I get a new mattress? Do I have a sleep tracker? Am I getting my supplements? What alarm clocks that glow? You don't need any of that. What you need is to upgrade your bedding with bowl and branch. Their signature sateen sheets, breathable pillows, cozy waffle bed blankets and beautifully crafted comforters work together for comfort and temperature regulation. I am in love with these sheets. I've heard about these sheets for a very long time. But me like you never actually pulled the trigger. Now I got it. And here's the best part. As I wash them, every time I put them back on, they're even more comfortable. I don't know where to begin. Easy. You start with the signature sheet set and then add the comforter and the waffle blanket. I got a waffle blanket too. That's Great. Anyway, I absolutely love these sheets. Upgrade your sleep with bowl and branch. Get 15% off your first order, plus free shipping at boleandbranch.com bonkers with code bonkers. That's bowl and branch. B, O, L, L, a, n d branch.com bonkers. Code bonkers. To unlock 15% off, exclusions apply. Here's the thing. God damn. There's so much. There's so much. There's so much here. Because, like, I did say, this is a, you know, it's directed by Norman Mailer, who is a, you know, Pulitzer Prize winning author. I've read multiple Norman Mailer books and. Amazing, right? But this is a book that he wrote, so he adapted it so you would think that he would have the best handle on this material. Robert Towne, who wrote Chinatown, Comes and consults on this, you think?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Produced by Francis Ford Coppola.

[Paul Scheer]

You think at any point someone would say, hey, we don't understand the plot.

[June Diane Raphael]

Coppola.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This movie was produced by Francis Ford Coppola. I mean, just in the credits. I saw that.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, this movie premieres at Cannes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow.

[Paul Scheer]

Like, yeah, this movie premieres at Cannes out of competition. But. So I guess maybe that doesn't count. But can I just show you.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Not in the same. It doesn't have the same weight. But even. Even still. That's fucking nuts.

[Paul Scheer]

When. When it premieres at Cannes, the reaction is not good. And so all of a sudden you think, this is how America met this film. So this is the trailer. Anyone can call pause at any point. But I want to show you the trailer for this film because I think I've never seen anything like this. And we'll just. We'll roll it right in. Here we go. I just received the comment cards from the first screening of my new film,

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Tough Guys Don't Dance. Bold, innovative, wonderful.

[Paul Scheer]

Stinks. Why are we talking about that?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We can't let it hang out here.

[Paul Scheer]

Where else can we. A movie not to miss. Giant death orgy with lots of maniacs.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, man.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, God.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, man.

[Paul Scheer]

Something rotten.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This happened.

[Paul Scheer]

One of the best and most original films I've ever seen. It was brilliant. One of the worst ever. My grandmother could do better. I agree. You agree on what? Excellent, crazy entertainment. Very funny. Gross, sleazy garbage. And it was no small job. Quick turns of plot.

[June Diane Raphael]

Enjoyed.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Having to think.

[Paul Scheer]

Whoever wrote this has never read a good book.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You think it's simple?

[Paul Scheer]

Well, here. Go ahead.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You pull the trigger.

[Paul Scheer]

You're being set up. Set up for what? Murder One.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wow.

[Paul Scheer]

So Norman Mailer Basically sets up his own movie by saying like, I don't

[Jason Mantzoukas]

know, like, I like that he embraced like the negative reviews and made it part of the like the promotional campaign. Because it is. I agree with all the negative reviews and what they. It does stink. It is. Whoever wrote it hasn't read a good book. I don't know. It was this movie. This movie is Ryan o' Neal and then a bunch of people who are basically doing a Blanche dubois impression from Streetcar Named Desire.

[Paul Scheer]

This is the one thing I wanted to say early on, but I think it's a perfect time now. When I write, what I often do is I keep open another document and as I'm cutting through things, I will cut things out of a document and I'll throw it into a junk bin file just in case I wanna go back to it. And what this whole script felt like was like Tennessee Williams junk bin for Streetcar Named Desire. Like it was sort like this is all lines that could have felt like it was.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, the majority of noir, I mean it's so. But it's so. It's infuriating. Like there it was just infuriate. And I gotta tell you, fuck Norman Miller. I think the guy's a homophobic, sexist fucking maniac. And I am so.

[Paul Scheer]

Jim. Did you get that from the.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

From this. From racist and racist and homophobic. Like every.

[June Diane Raphael]

All sorts of things. It's all on display in this film.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

From the jump.

[June Diane Raphael]

From the jump.

[Paul Scheer]

This opening scene with his dad.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Your hair.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, it went quick. Chemo must be bad.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, I quit.

[Paul Scheer]

The nausea was a disgrace. What are your chances, big fella? Son who to fucking say? I handle everything but the middle of the night. Where's your wife?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Patti Lorraine took off November 1st, 28 days ago.

[Paul Scheer]

You married the wrong girl, that's all. Should have married the other one. I thought you liked Patti Lorraine. I liked her guts. But certain dames ought to wear a T shirt that says hang around, I'll make a cocksucker out of you.

[June Diane Raphael]

Thanks.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean that introduction, it's like. It feels like people were getting into fist fights in between takes of this movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Can I talk about something?

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Now I want to talk about something. And just because you showed the Norman Mailer reviews thing. That is pretty great. There is. Everybody can find it on YouTube. Norman Mailer made another movie called Maid Head. What? That stars movie? Yes, that stars a young rip torn. Okay.

[June Diane Raphael]

I thought this is funny footage.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

There's a 10 minute clip on YouTube that we will maybe link to or you can find just Norman Mailer, Rip Torn. Google it on YouTube. Or YouTube. Search it. And it is a footage. It's behind the scenes footage that is being shot. While they're shooting a scene. Rip Torn has lost his mind and he attacks a shirtless Norman Mailer. He attacks Norman Mailer with a hammer and hits Norman. And all their families are around because all their families are there shooting. They're out in a field. He attacks Norman Mailer with a hammer. And then. And then Rip Torn is like, I'm you. I'm you. Yeah, yeah. And Norman Mailer, at a certain point is kind of like. I gotta admit, this is exactly what. What the character would have done. They're so inside of this kind of craziness. There are children crying, screaming. No, no. They've just watched their father be attacked by a Rip Torn who looks like he's. It looks like documentary footage from like. Like. Like a true crime story. Rip Torn looks like a deranged murderer. He's holding a hammer, Bloodied from hitting Norman Mailer in the head with a hammer. It's fucking nuts. So here's Norman Mailer, his shirt, shirtless, Rip Torn. That's Rip Torn.

[Paul Scheer]

Norman, you're going to hurry. No, baby. No, baby. You know you trust me. You trust me. You trust me. You trust me. You trust me.

[June Diane Raphael]

Come on.

[Paul Scheer]

I'll trust you if you trust me. All right. All right. Follow us. Promise?

[June Diane Raphael]

Promise. All right. Okay. I'll go.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay. Go. Okay.

[June Diane Raphael]

Okay.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I'm sorry, dad. I'm sorry. Daddy. Let me hit you down now.

[Paul Scheer]

What?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No. Hey, will you cut this idiot out?

[Paul Scheer]

Okay. This is amazing. It's 10 minutes long. That movie had 45 hours. They had 40. A 45 hour cut that they had to get down to 110 minutes. And someone was shot on that movie. And yet they financed him for another movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Riptorn. There's a part of it where Riptorin's going. You're not Mailer. I'm Mailer. I'm you. I'm you, Daddy. And it is. And his eyes are. It is terrifying.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, my God. I thought this was his one and only.

[Paul Scheer]

I don't know.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Although. I don't know. Are there any more?

[Paul Scheer]

I actually don't know. I think it's this one. Cause he. He got a bunch of razzies for this one. Wow.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Razzies were already. How long have the razzies been around?

[Paul Scheer]

1987. So this is the year where.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is later than I thought. I thought this was earlier.

[Paul Scheer]

This is the year it was nominated for Seven Golden Raspberry Awards. It won worst director, but it tied with Elaine May for Ishtar, which I think if you go back, you'll find that Ishtar was unfairly maligned for whatever reason. It's actually a fine, if not a capable film in many ways.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think. I think the. Yeah, yeah. Cooked for reasons that were not necessarily valid. It is a perfectly good movie. It just was very expensive.

[Paul Scheer]

That's what it was. Yeah. But this movie starts in a weird way because you said it's like 10 minutes of the scenes, but then it starts with a home invasion that we don't necessarily hear. Like, it's like, I guess not a home invasion, but like there's a moment or I guess.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, you mean when his dad comes.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Tea kettle.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes. So I guess it's a weird thing to start a film with a noise where your character enters into it. Cause I feel like the tension is, oh, I've just come. Whatever it is, I just woke up. Or like he. It immediately jumps into a very weird narrative switch. That's when I knew I should unbuckle my safety belt and just start ping ponging around here. Because I was like, okay, well, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Cause so what happens is we start with Ryan o' Neal in bed. He hears the teakettle going off, whistling,

[Paul Scheer]

which doesn't seem odd because.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Which is not a scary sound, but he picks up a cr. Crowbar nonetheless and starts creeping through. And what you realize later is the last five days have been a series of, like, physical attacks that he's been through with various people. So later we understand why he was nervous that someone was in the house. But right now we have no idea what's going on.

[Paul Scheer]

In the language of film, to have someone waking up to a tea kel going off, that would be the normal thing, right?

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, not if you lived alone.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, but we don't know anything about this film.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

We don't know any of that.

[Paul Scheer]

But I'm saying the first image we have of him is waking up in a bed, like, oh, he could be married. This could be a comedy. We don't know anything. So just having someone in a bed with a tea kettle going off, like if a window smashed. I get it. But it's like, it's.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I could talk forever about the house party where his wife plays the trumpet. The seance.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way, this was shot in Norman Mailer's house.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, of course it was. I'm not surprised even remotely. To hear that I wrote this movie is bizarre. The room Makes more sense. Sense. Like, what is this story? He goes, Ryan o' Neill says about his wife, at one point, she was the largest addiction of my life. And I. And he's a guy who, like, goes to prison for selling coke. Is like, there's more coke done in this movie than I think in. In Bright Lights, Big City. This is absolute insanity.

[June Diane Raphael]

I was also, like, confused. I want to talk about the heads, the women's heads that were buried in a forest.

[Paul Scheer]

One woman and one man. Right.

[June Diane Raphael]

See, that's what I want to talk about. I think both of them.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The two heads were the women. Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

Wait, what happened to the man then?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The man was killed as well. But his. I don't think he was decapitated.

[Paul Scheer]

So his body's just in the trunk rotting.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Correct. Oh, yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

So.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And then the two women were decapitated.

[June Diane Raphael]

But at one point, Jason and I think clearly Paul was a little confused about this, too.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, because we now know he's barely watching the movie. And I. I was confused when the. When the Clippers showed up and.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And Kyrie was there. I don't know. I don't know.

[Paul Scheer]

Hopefully. God, only if we be so lucky.

[June Diane Raphael]

So I. Okay, so I. I knew there was blonde hair on the first head. And he was freaked out. Right. So he left that head there. Got that. Because it would have been either head.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Then he later is saying to himself, whose head was it? Whose head was it?

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, he's not saying it to himself. Jason, that voiceover is a woman's voice saying, whose head is that? Whose head is that?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, is that what it was? I'm sorry, you're right. Because there is. There's lots of. Exactly what June just did. There's lots of, like, whispering in the soundtrack.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I mean, who's cackling at the end of the film? We'll never know, because that seems like a straight up ghost movie. But is this a thing. I know we've talked about this on the show and people have referenced this a bunch. Like, we talked about this idea. Like, when you're a kid, you find porn in the woods, and that was how you would find, like, a porno magazine or something like that. But. But in this is. Was it a thing to hide your drugs? Like in a little. Like in.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's what I was going to say, because it's just marijuana he's hiding there. He's a. We know. I don't know where the cocaine was, but doesn't seem to be protected the same way that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That I never understood here's what I never understood. They seem to intimate repeatedly that Ryan o' Neal is the cocaine connection. That they have the money.

[June Diane Raphael]

Money.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And that they're afraid they're saying he's going to be the guy that gets the coke. But I never see that. That the movie never shows him as that go between. And it seems like they're setting him up to take the fall.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I thought he's. I think that they're setting him up to be the take the fall because they have this in with the coke dealers and the big plan was to sell what, like $2 million of Coke to get $10 million of money or they're. They're running.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

No, they had the money. They had $2 million from that Southern guy. Again, Provincetown is populated entirely by people.

[Paul Scheer]

I was like, I was gonna say, is this. Is this a town that is populated by character actors from community theater? Because everyone in this movie, I mean, that's guy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The Richie Rich southern guy who's like, you don't understand. It's. It's hard to be. Have a $2 million. What am I gonna do?

[Paul Scheer]

What do you want to do, baby? About it for the day? I was like, we gotta play a clip of that one woman. That woman playing the woman who talks about her vaginal hair or. And playing a trumpet.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

To be clear, she does not. Does she say vaginal hair?

[Paul Scheer]

No, I didn't want to say pussy. Yeah, all right. I was trying to be classy.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think. I'll be honest. As far as I'm concerned, vaginal hair is a million times worse.

[June Diane Raphael]

It's really a lot worse when you get more clinical.

[Paul Scheer]

Pubic hair. I should have said pubic hair. Yeah. Vaginal hair is not even really a thing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Lady, you sound like a witch.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, honey, I am a witch. Good blondes are. You're not a real blonde.

[June Diane Raphael]

My pussy hair was bright gold in

[Paul Scheer]

high school until I went out and scorched it with the football team. That party where she goes, the doorbell rings, she goes, that must be my boyfriend. And just takes off her outfit. People are ripping off their clothes like NBA stars ripping up their war, ripping off their warm ups.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, everybody has rip away clothing. It is. She strips just to answer the door because she says, it must be my boyfriend. And then it's not and is just the new.

[June Diane Raphael]

Like, this is what was interesting to me too. Like, to me, that's not the vibe of that part of the country. Am I wrong?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I. It did not. Well, I mean, the party was full of southerners so maybe they were bringing. Maybe they were bringing that Southern style to. To Provincetown is like, you know, the Cape, basically. It is like, I felt.

[June Diane Raphael]

I always think of it as a bit more like upper crust and. And stiff.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, that's why the seance made it sense, because they're into witches and stuff like that. They burned witches at the stake. Right? That's. That's why they're doing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's not necessarily in that same area, but sure, sure, sure. No, it made no sense that they were in Provincetown. Like, it would have made much more sense to me if this movie was set in Savannah.

[Paul Scheer]

You know why Provincetown? Because Norman Mailer is like, let's shoot at my house so I don't have

[Jason Mantzoukas]

to, like, go, Absolutely, absolutely. And that makes total sense now that you say that. But. But it made no sense to me, like, how big and broad all the characters were. Like the drug dealers.

[June Diane Raphael]

Similar. Like, they were all. Yes, they were big and broad, but there was no. Like, I couldn't really tell you the difference between, like, Penn Jillette's character as the preacher.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Holy cow.

[June Diane Raphael]

The swinger preacher. And also like that, the main killer, I think at the end that. That guy and then the police chief, like, they all bled into each other.

[Paul Scheer]

The character that I wanted to see more of, who I thought was the most defined was the adult film star who comes to town.

[June Diane Raphael]

Well, she was incredible.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She's one of the women that's murdered, though.

[June Diane Raphael]

She's one of the best.

[Paul Scheer]

But, I mean, I feel like we didn't get enough time with her. And you get this amazing scene with her right at the get go.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Tell us a joke. What makes surgeons a happy.

[Paul Scheer]

What? To cut people up and get paid for it. That's happiness.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You look like one of those method

[June Diane Raphael]

actors that plays a killer.

[Paul Scheer]

Don't say that. Why not?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Because I could kill you.

[Paul Scheer]

I feel demented tonight. In what way demented? I could fuck your woman right in front of you. Only if the lady agrees. Now, is that a real joke or are they just all coked up? I don't.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, like, it has the structure of a joke, but it is not. Like, it's not inherently funny. Like. Like the idea being, like, most people who cut people up, like they're crazy murderers, but surgeons, they get. They cut people up and they get paid for it.

[Paul Scheer]

But the way he told me it, he felt like Christian Bale in American Psycho. Like, he didn't tell it with any joy. It was like, oh, geez.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, I don't know. I Mean. And that's where I think. I think the movie is trying to, like, fuck with us a little bit. Where we're supposed to think, like, oh, is he. Is he the killer? Like, did he do this?

[Paul Scheer]

Ryan o' Neill shouldn't even be in this town. He doesn't feel fit. Like, I don't buy him as this character. I don't buy him as a guy unzipping his pants. I don't buy. I don't buy any, like, talk about miscast.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I don't agree. Him. I don't. I don't believe him as a coke dealer who goes to prison for three years. No, I don't believe him as the local marijuana dealer who's like, kind of a gigolo. I like this. I don't agree. I don't believe in any of this, and I don't. Oh. And I fundamentally don't believe in him as what he is, which is the Norman male stand in the writer. He's not. He's not Mailer esque in any way, shape or form. He's supposed to be a writer. You know, like, that's his thing. He's a failed writer or whatever. Meanwhile, you've got, like, you've got the. The police officer who's married to his ex, who's married to Ryan o' Neill's ex wife, who's played by Isabella Rossellini, who is, as always, incredible and just like, fantastic, but has so little to do. And I feel terrible that she's like. Like just kind of shunted around. But the. The speech that that guy gives when he goes, I'm a law enforcement officer and it turns me on. Like, everybody in this movie has a speech about how this thing, this hor. This horrible thing they do makes them horny. Like the other.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, this.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

When she shoots the other bl. Blonde woman gets, like, horny and they. Afterwards. It's crazy.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, look, that. Honestly, I have to say, that cuckolding scene was so disturbing to me. And not because it was graphic and there are more graphic sex scenes, but just to have that man just crying like, why don't you listen to me? No one listens to me. Listen to me. And it's like on the side of the. Oh, no, let me speak. It goes, let me speak.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Let me speak. He's. Oh, why?

[Paul Scheer]

Why wouldn't he walk away? And. And I mean, this movie is so. I mean, by the way, it's aggressively homophobic. I mean, like, that's the other thing too. It's like, it is like, it's why it was kind of like jaw dropping in that way. Like. Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

In a way that it felt like performative masculinity. But, yes.

[June Diane Raphael]

Norman Mill.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know what I mean?

[June Diane Raphael]

Like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's kind of like who I'm leveling that against. It's really like. It's Mailer really trying in. In the mouth of every character. Every character is homophobic to another character in some way.

[Paul Scheer]

They would them all. Every character would each other, regardless of.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And do most of them do, you know?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yes. And what's hilarious about that to me is like, Norm Mailer's giving every character that platform, but also just so many characters. It's like, I feel like there were three extra characters that. That could have. Like, there were three men in this movie who you could cut out and not miss at all. Like, collapse them into one of them. Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, you could. Yeah, absolutely. Well, here's the thing, too, that happens. Like, there's a scene in this movie where he gets in his jeep and he has his dog. He has a dog with him.

[Paul Scheer]

When does that dog come to play?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And then the dog shows up in that scene. The dog is murdered. I was like, when has he. First of all, we're like, more than an hour into the movie. When did. Since when does he have a dog? We've never seen him have a dog yet.

[Paul Scheer]

And yet it seems like. Like it's like a John Wick moment.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yes.

[Paul Scheer]

In the middle of the movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

In the middle of the movie. So he's like, you killed my. That's your knife. He says, that's your knife in my dog.

[Paul Scheer]

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[Jason Mantzoukas]

Ah, yeah, It's a World cup holder.

[Paul Scheer]

Like the soccer tournament. World cup holder for the world.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Fits every car, holds every cup.

[Paul Scheer]

It has a Carvana logo.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Carvana made it.

[Paul Scheer]

They buy and sell cars, so they

[Jason Mantzoukas]

made a car cup holder.

[June Diane Raphael]

So.

[Paul Scheer]

Got any good cups lately?

[June Diane Raphael]

I used to.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I just couldn't figure out where in

[June Diane Raphael]

the world to put them.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The World cup holder brought to you by Carvana. Proud sponsors of the World cup holder,

[Paul Scheer]

sign up today to win [e-mail] not authorized or endorsed by FIFA. Not a real product for parity and fair use purposes only.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I love that. The guy, the southern guy, Wardley.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's like. Like he just wants to. He's just like, he just wants to throw sick parties. He's like, he's got a gun on Ryan o' Neill and he's like, we're going to throw the biggest parties these, this world has ever seen. Like, his goal in getting rich off of the coke money is just to throw better parties.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, look, not a bad goal. Not a bad goal at all. I mean, God, that dog. And by the way, the thugs rolling up in a roll in a white Rolls Royce like these. Like, like, like first of all, not undercover at all. Aggressively, like what car they were driving. Oh, a white Rolls Royce. Like, there's no.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I would also believe it if you said that was Norman Mailer's car. I would believe it if everything in this movie was just like his.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh my God, he drove a right. A white Rolls Royce.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, I would 100% believe that. I wrote in my. I wrote in my notes. I feel like I'm in an active blackout.

[June Diane Raphael]

Oh, so terrible.

[Paul Scheer]

There. There are a couple things in here too. And maybe I don't want to be prudish, but the cop, when he's talking about his job and what he loves

[Jason Mantzoukas]

about his job, you don't want to be prudish. Said the man said, vaginal hair.

[Paul Scheer]

Vaginal hair. I don't want to be prudent because I was trying to be very respectful of the vaginal. When he goes, he wrote like I like two humps a day. And like he likes to. He needs to. 2. He goes, I. Two women.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Two different women.

[Paul Scheer]

Two different women. Yeah. So every day he has to. Two different women.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I guess one of them is his wife, Isabella Rosalind. And one is, we now know, is Ryan o'. Neill's ex wife.

[Paul Scheer]

And then doesn't Isabella Rossellini say at one point, like, I need to make out or he likes to make out five times a day. Like, she also equates a number with how much they're. I thought she had like a line where she says, like, he likes to make out five times a day.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, everybody in the movie. I don't know if you guys found this jarring either. Everybody in the movie monologues. Like, there's not a lot of. Like, there's not a lot of back and forth. It's not conversational. Everybody is like, tease someone up for a monologue. A proper, like big, like, like, let me tell you type of thing. And you. It really is. It's exhausting because it's in. None of it is in. None of it helps. Usually when a character monologues, it's an exposition dump. It's helping you understand information. It's giving you context or helping you ground the movie or whatever. Whatever. But these monologues are nuts. Oh, they're absolutely crazy. When. When that guy, when that police officer then has a stroke or has a heart attack or has his mouth, like, his mouth is half paralyzed, like, what the fuck was going on?

[June Diane Raphael]

I don't know. And then were they killing him at the end? Was that like a mercy kill? Where they were like, this is no life. Let's. But it matters.

[Paul Scheer]

I just rewind that section. I rewound the section because I was like, I need to understand exactly what is going on here. And I believe, if I am correct, he hit his head into the wall so many times that he created his own stroke. Like, it's like. So if you bang your head against the wall enough times, you can have your own stroke. Cause he goes bang, bang. He's fine. Third bang. He's almost like he's getting electric.

[June Diane Raphael]

What happened to you? You like ping ponging around an airplane after you unboxed. Exactly.

[Paul Scheer]

Who cares? I'm dead. I'm dead. And although that guy survived, he did survive. And the first thing he said was, I fucked better than you. Your womb is broken now, by the way. Who cares if her womb is broken? Because he clearly doesn't want to procreate. Like, like, or.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Or like he might.

[June Diane Raphael]

He had a picture with those two kids, his brother's children.

[Paul Scheer]

This is me when he just holds up the.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So all of that shit was so weird also. And this was featured in the trailer that earlier Paul. But I wanted to call it out at the end when they are dump. When Ryan o' Neal and his father are dumping all of the bodies into the ocean that are the result of all of the many different crosses and double crosses that have happened in this movie, which are impossible to map because they don't make any sense. It is to pomp and circumstance. Oh, it is. They are only playing pomp and circumstance. It's as if they are graduating from high school. So today, graduates. As we go out into that great big world, we think to ourselves. You know what I mean? Like, that's what it seems like. But instead, they're dumping bodies into the

[Paul Scheer]

ocean and they're talking about the cure of cancer. Just hear a clip of that. You know something? I'm taking to this more than I thought I would.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You've been in the wrong occupation all these years. This has got to be the answer to cancer. Maybe that's why cancer costs so much to cure.

[Paul Scheer]

The way I see it, schizophrenia is the cure for cancer. Cancer is probably the cure for schizophrenia. That whole thing, it's like. It's these. It's very writerly, and I think, like, what we were talking about, these monologues are internal monologues. And internal monologues work in novels because. Because it's giving you. You're getting moments. And I think when you try to put all that outside, it just becomes really. Every character becomes completely insane.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And, well, I mean, to be fair, every character in this movie is completely insane. Like, this is truly. There is nobody save perhaps Ryan Oneills father, who is so unfazed and unflappable in the face of multiple decapitations and murders. Murders. That it is absolutely bananas.

[Paul Scheer]

Can I, like. Can I tell you my theory?

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

He is not real.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You think he's a Tyler Durden situation?

[Paul Scheer]

Yes, I do. I have a very strong theory on this. Like, when I. When I meditated last night after this movie, to think I was like, wait, wait a second.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wait. This. That. Wait, back up.

[Paul Scheer]

No. Meditated on not. I didn't. I. I sat with the movie and I really thought about what I thought, you know what?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I need to go into a medicine meditative state in order to process this movie.

[June Diane Raphael]

That's smart.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's interesting. I picture you like. It's like an episode of Sherlock where you go into the movie.

[Paul Scheer]

I went into my mind. My mind.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Your mind palace. Your memory palace.

[Paul Scheer]

And I was thinking. I was like, I think he's not real. I think he is, like, this aggressive because Ryan o' Neill is a. Here's what I'll say in the terms of Norman Mailer, and probably even not as aggressive as Norman Mailer. He's not a man's man, so he needs a man's man to take care of his man's business. So he creates this character who can do all the things that he wants to do because no one else really sees him.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

He's nobody else. You're right. Nobody else interacts with him.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. And he.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, so. Okay, so now I'm going to. I'm going to. Yes. And your theory into his dad lost his battle with cancer.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And now Ryan o' Neill, in his time of need, five days into the insanity of. Of his wife leaving him, people starting to turn out up dead. And realizing that he's being framed for murder, he needs the help of his father, who seems to be like an ex cop or something. He. He has, like, explanations as to what happened and who shot who and how. And this one died from this and this one died from that. He seems to have knowledge, so that he takes that and. And populates it into. Yeah, maybe. Maybe.

[Paul Scheer]

June,

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I honestly, I mean, you're giving the movie way more credit, like me, for originality.

[June Diane Raphael]

Maybe. I. Well, so I thought at one point. What's interesting about that is I thought at one point he was going to be the killer. And I was like, oh, we're leading there. Like, we must be leading back to his father. I think it's definitely possible. Like, I was craving so badly some. I knew pretty early on that we were in a nosedive in terms of plot and that I wasn't going to be able to find my way out. So much so that when the hotel worker, like, the clerk, arrived at Ryan o' Neill's house to ask if he knew this couple because they left their car in the hotel, I was relieved to just understand the scene. Scene. Understand, like, oh, a car's been left there. He's worried. He's trying to figure out where these people are. He knows he's been with them the night before because I was.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So he's the only responsible person in this town.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, but Paul, I think it's an interesting theory, and I also think that it gives the movie way too much credit if.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

If that is true. Like, if you said to me, like, oh, actually, that is true. It's in the book.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I would be like, oh, that. That's a more interesting story. It's just not in here. You really have to, like, look for it to find out.

[Paul Scheer]

That's gonna lead into my next thing. Let's start a book club. And this. Let this be the first book. And we'll come back next week. Please.

[June Diane Raphael]

I will never return to this.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I will not.

[June Diane Raphael]

So it's interesting, like, I knew we were in trouble when I saw the title. When I saw on my calendar, like, watch, I had 8 o', clock, night before Thursday. How did this get made? Watch. Tough Guys don't dance. And I was like, what's this? And then the credits started and I see Norman Mailer and I'm like, what is this now? And then it unfolded and it was. It was just horrible, you guys.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I hated every minute.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way, the. The title of this thing. Roger Donahue was a prize fighter who was thanked by Norman Mailer in the film because he told him an answer anecdote that resulted in the title, I guess. Frank Costello, the Murder Inc. Boss, and his gorgeous girlfriend greet three champion boxers in the Stork Club. And Costello demands that each of these boxers dance with his woman. And then each of the boxers nervously complies. And then the last boxer, Willie Pep, you know, goes, well, why don't you dance, Mr. Costello? And Costello goes, tough guys don't dance. And that's how it came. But also, what a bizarre story that is too. Like, again, a cuckolding of these men. Like, you guys think you're tough. I'm gonna make you dance for me and then tell you you're not so tough. I mean, this is a lot of. You know, there's a lot of hammer hits in this movie.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

There's a lot of toxic masculinity on display inside this movie, for sure.

[Paul Scheer]

I also just wanna take a moment to talk about some of the amazing dialogue. Like, there was a thing where it was like, if you run a potato farm and you run to the potato market, you won't have enough potatoes to run a factory. I'm like, wait, what the f. Like, where they're like, hey, did you make a puddle in your pants? Like, there was like some jazzy. Like there was some, like, jazz. It's like when Back to the Future too, when they go there, like, hey, Bojo. I'm like, oh. He created a whole language in this movie that he's like, I think.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And I know you started the show with this, but I really. We need to get into it enough that if you are. If you are part of the audience of this podcast, this that does not listen, or rather does not watch the movies ahead of time or maybe doesn't watch the movies at all at Least seek out the clip of the. Oh, God.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, we gotta play. We gotta play it. Cause it's. It's too.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

This is so Ryan o' Neil gets a letter from Isabella Rossellini, and she makes him promise to read it alone, when he's alone, not with her presence. So he goes to the beach and he reads it, and then this happens.

[Paul Scheer]

And by the way, I couldn't understand what the letter was actually saying. June and I rewound it three times because her I couldn't understand accent is. Is definitely playing a part of it. But then there's also, like, the minute she says. Because I did eventually figure it out. Murder them. We have to murder my husband. A bird squash.

[June Diane Raphael]

I wish you had shared that with me.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, you were asleep. When I figured it out. When I figured it out was like,

[June Diane Raphael]

that would be hard.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

She's saying my husband and your wife are sleeping or having an affair. Right. And that they're behind. They're. They're. They're in cahoots to try and frame whatever. Frame you or whatever. So we have to kill them, basically, before they get you.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. And, and, and. But when she says, like, kill them, I. I swear, a bird squawks. So it. It. So you're. You're. You're hearing surf, sand, voiceover and a bird squawking over a very. Like, we reround it three times, and it was June and I both trying to listen and be like, what. What's happen?

[June Diane Raphael]

My husband is having an affair with your wife.

[Paul Scheer]

I don't think we should talk about it unless you're prepared to kill them. Oh, man. Oh, God, oh, man. Oh, God, oh, man. Oh, God, oh, man. Oh, God, oh, man.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, God, Oh, God, oh, man.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, God.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, God, oh, man.

[Paul Scheer]

Apparently so funny that wrecked the relationship between Ryan o' Neal and Norman Mailer, because I guess Norman Mailer and I've read a couple things, really loved the bad acting. And I think he edged it. Like, he was like, yeah, more of that. Like, so he fed people into it. So, like, Ryan o' Neil was like, oh, he totally betrayed me. Like, he fucked me over. And I think that, like, people just felt like Ryan, when Norman Mailer talks about it, like, there's a disdain for these actors. Like, oh, I thought the bad acting here was so great. Like, he's like, he's a non filmmaker, he's an author making a film, commenting on film and terrible acting. It's like too many levels are at play, I think.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, my God.

[Paul Scheer]

God.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, it It's. It is. I want to say it's interesting to watch. It's just not.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, honestly. Yeah. I wouldn't recommend that you go watch it. Even though you know there's people out there that might have a different opinion. So now it is time.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh boy.

[Paul Scheer]

For second opinions.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yet this person recommends it. Tell me, what is the message? Maybe that art is subjective. I need a second opinion.

[Paul Scheer]

Thank you, John. Lovie. These are five star reviews. I didn't really find many. Oh, I shouldn't say me. Nate Kiley, by the way. Also a big thank you to Avril Halley for bringing this film into our lives. Lives. Or I guess a lawsuit. To Avril for bringing this in. Jason and June will be. I hope you have a lawyer, but Nate Kiley did some pretty good research here. There are not many earnest ones. But I'll read you. I'll read you this one from Roy Clark. Okay, so it is the title. A very Mailer movie. As in great embellished with speed bumps. When classmates in the 60s were reading Salinger, I started reading Mailer and I haven't stopped until he died last week. Happily, I've read and collected all but a few of his titles. I've enjoyed his film translation of Tough Guys Don't Dance because I've read and enjoyed and learned from the book. Learned. Now I guess it's rereading time. This film is Mailer as the book with a strong character driven plot drawn with the brilliance and pomposity of Mailer's famous for. Personally, I like his departure from expected forms. Taking risks which might prove embarrassing. Flowing or stumbling. The flow of Tough Guys is audaciously mel or brilliant. Funny on purpose or an egotistical misstep. Artistically insightful or hung over and off. It's way up with acknowledged smartness and it's an entertaining flick. It's a learning experience as well as entertainment in terms of the human experience as well as film writing and directing. Somehow the characters seem exactly as I saw them when reading for a double hit. Try reading the book before or after viewing the movie. I've come to like reading after viewing for the imagery. It will make an impression and an impressive five stars. And then this is from Stephen Morrow. And you know these are serious cause they're using their full name and this is it. I still maintain this has some of the best dialogue in a movie you'll ever find. Such as Never call an Italian small potatoes. He was way ahead of the curve in reintroducing noir again. Into film culture. Of course I'm biased since I was fortunate to have worked with no on it.

[June Diane Raphael]

But yeah, you are biased. Wait, what?

[Paul Scheer]

But you. You know, but can you think of a movie of more recent vintage that has more than one memorable line? This is 1987. I would say this is the. The height of catchphrases, but maybe just one. I don't know, just explosions and lots of gore. RIP Norman Mailer. They don't make them like that anymore.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Can you imagine your Isabella Rosa Mussolini the year prior? You are in Blue Velvet.

[Paul Scheer]

Yep.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Like an incredible movie. That is a noir. That is an unbelievable film. And then you are in this. That's. That's a wild back to back two years.

[Paul Scheer]

The budget of this was 5 million or 10 million, depending on who you believe. Los Angeles Times says 5. Spy magazine says 10. It grossed $858,000. The top three films of 87 are Beverly Hills Cop 2, Platoon and Fatal Attract. It doesn't feel like it's a contemporary of that at all. It was beaten by Running Man, Jaws, the Revenge over the Top in Prom Night two. I think we know where you both fall on this movie about watching it, but I will say this, June, I was wrong. This is the last movie he directed. But he directed four films total. Maidstone, beyond the Law and Wild 90. This is the last movie he directed. So he was quite a prolific filmmaker. I mean, not bad at all to get four out of the gate like that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

But I mean, to be clear, this is bad. This is like. And this is. This for me falls into the category of. I would not recommend people watch this, of course.

[Paul Scheer]

June, would you recommend that people watch this?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It's on YouTube though, so if you want to, like. If you want to peep it or if you want to, like, watch the. Oh, God, oh, no. Or man scene, like, watch that. Or to. To get a sense of what we're talking about to watch. Some of these Southern.

[Paul Scheer]

Southern accents are amazing. Like the scene outside of the. The church. But I would also.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

It is worth watching.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, I took again. I had one gummy. I needed more. I think had I been. I'd be curious to see. I mean, I'll never turn it on again, but just like, what One and a half. What that would have felt like.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Well, June, I think I can answer a little bit of that question for you. Not as it measures in gummies, but as it measures in versions of being impaired by that same stage substance. I watched this pretty stoned and it was okay. It was not cool.

[Paul Scheer]

See I'm watching it completely sober, and I'm learning about the dad. I'm all into it. And I gotta say, we didn't talk about my favorite part of the whole movie, which is the machete on the wall.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, the missing machete.

[Paul Scheer]

The missing machete on the wall, which is clearly the murder weapon of the decapitated people. But also underneath it, a picture of the man, the cop, holding, like, a bloody machete, like, ah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And so many guns. So many guns in that house when he goes into Isabella Rossellini's house, and there is, like, 30 guns just, like, at the ready, mounted on the wall, in gun racks on the floor. Like, it is like an armory is Their. Their living room looks like an armory.

[June Diane Raphael]

Do is like, instead of like, we should have our own barometer. Like, how many gummies does it take to get through some of these movies? It's sort of like the reverse of Rotten Tomatoes where it's like, it takes me. It took me two gummies. It took me three.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

The only way to enjoy the. Yeah, but then, you know, I. I agree. But then sometimes, though, like, again, like, as stoned as I was, this movie was like. Like, again, I wrote, I feel like I'm in an act of blackout. I felt like. I felt like time stopped. I didn't know what was happening. I didn't feel safe.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You know, it was unsettling to say the least.

[Paul Scheer]

That was absolutely great. I felt like I communed with this film. I had no gummies. I mean, look, I enjoy a Camino gummy, but I. But I had no. None.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

And wait, are you plugging Kamino gummies?

[Paul Scheer]

I'm just saying, you know, I'm just saying that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I mean, the Kaminoan. Do they do cloning on Kamino in Star Wars?

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, yeah, yeah. That's a different kind of. The Boba Fett gummies are very, very good. But. Wow, wow, wow, wow.

[June Diane Raphael]

What a ride.

[Paul Scheer]

Jason Jun. Anything to plug?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah, I've got a couple. I mean, there's a couple things that are up and about. I've got. I'm a voice on a new animated show on Fox called Housebroken.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, fun.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

You can watch all of season one now of the animated show Invincible that I'm a voice in. It's on Amazon, A fantastic adaptation of Robert Kirkman's comic series. And then I think as of last week, June 10th on Paramount, plus the movie Infinite. Guys, if you want to see me playing a character whose only name is the artist Jason, watch Infinite.

[Paul Scheer]

I am all about Infinite as I got a special.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Do I wear eyeliner in this movie? Heavy eyeliner. Do I have a smoky eye and painted black nails? Yes, I do. Am I only referred to as the artisan? Indeed I am.

[Paul Scheer]

By the way, we should get together because recently on Black Monday, I think actually coming up this weekend on Black Monday, I am also wearing a smokey eye. And as Mike Character. Character gets in deep into 90s club culture or in New York City. So, you know, we, we're not. We're men who are not afraid to wear smokey eye. I will say that I did get a. A viewing kit for Infinite that came with a whole bunch of fun stuff. You could check out my Instagram. You can see all the. The different fun treats and things I want to see.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I didn't get that.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, you know, there you go. You know, there you go. I have ins with the Infinite people.

[June Diane Raphael]

I'm very excited to see that, Jason. Also, I would encourage everybody to check out another podcast. I know Paul spends a lot of time promoting his other podcast. Well, guess what?

[Paul Scheer]

Never promote it. I don't need to.

[June Diane Raphael]

I have one too, and it's called the Deep Dive. It's with me and Jessica Sinclair. And you can head to anywhere you find your podcast and check it out and subscribe. And also any of our listeners who want to join the Jane club, head to janeclub.com we have a lot of exciting things going on this summer. You can use our special head of the Skip made code JANE50 for half off your first month's subscription.

[Paul Scheer]

It's so good. And Deep Dive is fantastic. You know, it's right up there with like the great podcast, like unspooled or Screen test and. And so.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Wait, screen Test? What's that? Do you have another podcast?

[Paul Scheer]

Guys, let's not get into it.

[June Diane Raphael]

Is that a podcast you host?

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That's a. Wait, do you have a third podcast?

[Paul Scheer]

It's a game show anyway.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

That you host.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. Come on, get with it, guys. It's a spin off.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

What are you even talking about?

[Paul Scheer]

It's a spin off podcast. A movie to game show that you don't need to know anything about classic films. Just you have to love films, that's all.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, boy. Well, I do love you would be great. I want to throw one more plug out to our friends in the band Mannequin Pussy. Yes, they have a new EP out. It is called Perfect. It is fantastic. Their music is being used in the tv, the HBO show Mayor of Easttown.

[June Diane Raphael]

I want to watch the whole thing.

[Paul Scheer]

I want to watch it with you too.

[June Diane Raphael]

Yeah, let's watch it this week.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

So, you know, go and seek that out. Watch the show, support Mannequin Pussy. They're a great band.

[Paul Scheer]

I will also say that, I mean, I know I plugged briefly Black Monday, but I will say that June is on Black Monday this season as well. So you can catch her as Corky and Keith actually work together this season in the world of religious television. But you can actually watch Screen Test and see a whole bunch of different stuff over on our Twitch channel because every Thursday me and Huebel host the show Jason's been on a few times. There's been a bunch of stuff. We have a cooking show, we have music shows. It's Twitch TV FriendZone, so check that out. Super fun stuff over there. And Jason, I will send you the screen test with the George Lucas talk show guys where they all compete in their Star wars knowledge. And it is very funny. They are.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Oh, that's great.

[Paul Scheer]

All right, everybody, thank you so much for listening. Remember, keep this conversation going. Did you love this movie? I know you did. You can continue that conversation in the mini episode on our Discord at Discord GG hdtgm. And big thank you to our super producer Cody, our recently promoted senior head engineer Devin Bryant.

[June Diane Raphael]

I didn't know that. Congratulations.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes, Devin is promoted. S H e she A big thank you to Avril Haley for pulling all of our movies and making sure that she does the work before we have to do the work. So think of what she doesn't recommend. We get this.

[June Diane Raphael]

True. That's really an important room there.

[Paul Scheer]

It is. And she needs. She needs.

[June Diane Raphael]

Honestly, I will think about that.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Yeah. They're so bad. She doesn't for.

[Paul Scheer]

I have, I have literally had conversations where I'm like, what about this? And she's like, I tried it. It's not good. Like she's. She set through it all. Lord's work with his brand new baby at home doing the research still. Thank you, Nate for getting on top of that. Greg T. Nelson, the ghost of Craig T. Nelson, Zach mc and of course Kyle Waldron for doing all the amazing.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I would to like, I would love it if you just. If the actual Craig T. Nelson was involved in the production.

[Paul Scheer]

I would love. He just makes fan art. He loves making fan art. And thank you all for listening. Follow us all on our social channels. We will see you next week on a mini episode. Make sure you give us a call at 619p a u l a s k that's 619p a u l A S K thank you everybody. See you next time on a mini. Bye for now.

[June Diane Raphael]

Bye.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

Why have I asked my H Vac

[June Diane Raphael]

guy I found on Angie.com to change my grandpa's trachea tube? I was so amazed at how we replaced our air ducks. I knew I could trust him to change Pop Pops tube.

[Jason Mantzoukas]

I think we should call a doctor,

[Paul Scheer]

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