Podcast Summary:

How I Write with David Perell
Episode: Jon Yaged: How to Get Your Book Published
Date: March 18, 2026
Guest: Jon Yaged, CEO of Macmillan

Episode Overview

In this episode, David Perell hosts Jon Yaged, CEO of Macmillan, one of the “Big Five” book publishers. They pull back the curtain on the publishing industry, diving deeply into the business of bringing books to market, consolidation, risk, advances, the changing economics, and the creative DNA that drives publishing decisions at the top level. Jon offers rare, candid insight into how publishing houses make decisions, what it takes for writers to break in, the impact of technology, and where he sees the industry moving.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Impact of Industry Consolidation

• Why consolidation happens: The goal is to gain scale and profitability in a margin-constrained business. However, “one plus one doesn’t equal two anymore. One plus one equals something less than two.” (Jon, [02:29])
• Consolidation shifts power, making retailers like Amazon more influential and pressuring publishers on price and margin.
  • “Amazon got pretty big … It’s the old story about leverage.” (Jon, [03:47])

2. Advances, Book Selection, and Industry Data

• Deciding advances: Publishers compare new projects to ‘comp’ titles and use Bookscan data for physical sales projections (which covers about 85% of industry sales but not ebooks/audio).
  • “The first thing we say is this book we think is going to behave like that book.” (Jon, [04:50])
• Selection rate: Less than 1 in 20 submissions get published, highlighting extreme selectivity ([08:26]).

3. The Economics of Publishing

• Financial breakdown:
  • Retailers (Amazon/Barnes & Noble) take over 50% of the cover price for each book ([31:31]).
  • Authors earn a royalty on the cover price (10-15% for hardcover), plus any advance ([31:44]).
  • Other significant costs: printing, freight, marketing, and overhead.
• International and translation rights: Authors can receive up to 75% of the licensing fee for foreign translation sales ([35:43]).
• Backlist value: Back catalog (books >1 year old) often accounts for half of Macmillan’s business and industry profits ([38:03]).

4. Creating and Sustaining Creativity

• Fostering creativity: Jon emphasizes building a company culture where editors, designers, and marketers can thrive—a lesson he brings from creative spaces like Pixar and his musical family background ([20:46], [23:08]).
  • “Perfection wasn’t getting every note right, perfection was getting the vibe right.” (Jon, [23:29])

5. The Human Element vs. Data

• Limits of data-driven publishing: True hits are unpredictable outliers; creativity and gut instinct are irreplaceable ([16:46], [17:13]).
  • “Creativity isn’t an algorithm. It’s just not.” (Jon, [17:19])
• Magic editors: Some editors have an “innate ability” to spot what others miss, and Macmillan supports them to take calculated risks ([18:11]).

6. Author-Publisher Partnership & Pushback

• Author participation: Authors now need to promote and build their own communities in addition to writing excellent books ([11:18]).
• Pushback advice: Jon stresses the importance of open dialogue and respectful challenge between authors and publishers—honest editing conversations lead to the best books ([29:47]).

7. Trends and Formulas

• Formula creep: Publishers chase successful trends—lookalike covers and ‘template’ non-fiction are market responses, but risk-taking yields tomorrow’s trends ([28:12]).
• "Everything looks the same except for the ones that don’t. And those are the ones...taking the risk." (Jon, [28:12])

8. Technology, A.I., and Data

• Where A.I. fits: Jon is optimistic about AI as a tool for metadata optimization, demand forecasting, and improving workflow—freeing humans for creative work ([53:07]).
  • “It’s a better chance that you lose your job to someone who understands AI than you lose it to AI.” (Jon, [53:38])
• Copyright & AI: Pure-AI authorship presents severe legal and investment risks; current law does not protect works generated predominantly by AI ([56:04]).
  • “Our copyright law does not protect things created by AI.” (Jon, [56:04])

9. Children’s Publishing

• Unique challenges: Kids’ books have high production costs but lower margins. Picture books typically share royalties 50/50 between author and illustrator ([41:44], [41:48]).
• Durability: Children’s books often succeed longer (more resilient backlist), supported by intergenerational sharing ([42:45], [43:48]).
• Print vs. digital for kids: Physical books remain dominant in children's publishing despite digital trends ([43:48]).

10. The Importance of Word-of-Mouth

• Best-selling books: The most effective long-term sales driver is “word of mouth”—transformed now into influencer, blogger, and TikTok promotion ([11:29], [12:30]).

11. Marketing Strategy

• Finding the connectors: Focus on targeting connectors, “the evangelists within that community,” to empower word-of-mouth cascade ([65:38]).
  • “You identify the community and then … empower them to spread the gospel.” (Jon, [66:03])
• Iterative campaigns: Test, measure, and reallocate quickly when marketing strategies don’t perform ([67:12]).

12. Industry Worries & the Future

• Children’s literacy: Declining reading levels among kids is existential for society and publishing—a trend exacerbated by digital distraction ([76:39]).
  • “If kids don’t read today, the chance of them growing up into adult readers, it’s less.” (Jon, [76:39])
• Profit drivers: Backlist margins, talent for picking winners, and efficient risk hedging (via catalog acquisition) keep publishing houses afloat ([79:20]).

13. Macmillan’s Unique Approach

• Diverse personalities: Macmillan’s eight divisions have unique personalities—agents often submit the same book to multiple imprints, each with a different vision and valuation ([81:35]).
• Company culture: “I want people to have joy in their day ... If you have joy in your day, it makes the mundane less mundane. It makes the hard days less hard and makes the good days that much better.” (Jon, [84:49])

Memorable Moments & Quotes

“One plus one doesn’t equal two anymore. One plus one equals something less than two.”
— Jon Yaged on consolidation ([02:29])

“If you saw marketing … which gets you to buy the book, or your best friend told you to read the book—which is going to be the thing? … it’s your friend.”
— Jon Yaged on word-of-mouth ([11:29])

“Creativity isn’t an algorithm. It’s just not.”
— Jon Yaged ([17:19])

“If you get the right editor who just has that feel, you gotta go with it.”
— Jon Yaged ([18:10])

“Perfection wasn’t getting every note right, perfection was getting the vibe right.”
— Jon Yaged ([23:29])

“You identify that community and then you identify the connectors, the evangelists within that community, and then you empower them to spread the gospel.”
— Jon Yaged ([66:03])

“There is no more creator friendly business than the publishing industry.”
— Jon Yaged ([33:43])

“It’s a better chance that you lose your job to someone who understands AI than you lose it to AI, because it’s just another tool.”
— Jon Yaged ([53:38])

“Our copyright law does not protect things created by AI.”
— Jon Yaged ([56:04])

“If we could approximate some of that kind of love that my grandfather had for music into our day to day, we’re going to win.”
— Jon Yaged ([84:49])

Notable Timestamps

• Industry consolidation & leverage: [02:29]–[03:58]
• Advances & comp titles: [04:44]–[05:39]
• Selection rate and volume: [08:26]–[09:25]
• Author-publisher relationships: [29:33]–[31:11]
• Deep dive: financial breakdown: [31:31]–[35:43]
• Creativity vs. data: [16:46]–[18:11]
• Children’s book economics: [41:00]–[41:53]
• Physical vs. ebook for kids: [42:45]–[44:22]
• AI, copyright & legal: [53:07]–[58:47]
• Finding the next big thing/genre: [59:19]–[60:40]
• Backlist, catalog & M&A: [38:03]–[39:57], [79:20]–[80:39]
• Marketing to connectors: [65:38]–[66:33]
• Macmillan’s internal process/divisions: [81:35]–[84:49]

For Aspiring Authors – Key Takeaways

• You need an agent: Direct submissions rarely succeed ([10:05], [81:38]).
• Be ready to help market your book: Publicity, platform, and authentic engagement with readers matter.
• Push back respectfully: Creative and editorial debates improve the final work ([29:47]).
• Understand the economics: Publishing is a low-margin, high-risk business that invests deeply in a few winners and sustained backlist sales.
• Embrace creativity and resilience: The most successful works—and careers—often don’t look like the majority.

Closing Note

This episode demystifies the book-publishing gauntlet from the inside—showing the hard choices, subtle balances, and emotional stakes behind every book you see on a shelf. For writers and readers alike, Jon Yaged gives both a reality check and a hopeful view on the industry’s evolving soul.