Adam Mockler on Masculinity and the Right-Wing Pipeline (BONUS)

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Podcast: How Is This Better?
Host: Akilah Hughes (with interview contributions possibly by Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)
Episode: Adam Mockler on Masculinity and the Right-Wing Pipeline (BONUS)
Date: January 16, 2026

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Overview

This bonus episode presents an uncut conversation between host Akilah Hughes (and possibly the voices of Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico) and Adam Mockler, a 22-year-old left-leaning political content creator and commentator. The discussion delves into the phenomenon of "hyper-masculine optimization" in online culture, especially its intersections with right-wing content and pipeline dynamics that pull young men (and sometimes women) into reactionary politics. The conversation also critically examines why these spaces skew right, how left/progressive messaging often fails to compete, and which real-world strategies might be more effective in reaching across ideological divides.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Hyper-Masculine “Optimization” Trend on Social Media

• Viral Videos and First Impressions:

  • Discussion starts around the popularity of "morning routine" videos by figures like Ashton Hall. Mockler thought these routines were jokes or memes at first but noticed many took them seriously.
  • “There's this weird line that's blurred in the manosphere space where you can't tell when somebody's doing a bit or when someone is being genuine.” — Adam Mockler [02:00]

• Routines: Substance vs. Performance:

  • Routines aren't inherently harmful – “Maybe there’s a lesson you can take from that video about routine… But the idea that that’s the beacon of masculinity is, like, just a social media facade.”
  • Mockler distinguishes between genuine routine for self-improvement and performative displays designed to assert superiority or fit online masculine stereotypes.
  • “I know a lot of women that work way harder than I do… the idea that you have to be hyper masculine about it is pretty weird.” — Adam Mockler [04:03]

2. The Right-Wing Pipeline: Algorithmic Influence and Online Content

• How Pipelines Form:

  • Young men seeking advice (e.g., dating or fitness) can unwittingly fall into right-wing spaces (e.g., red-pill, manosphere, anti-vax content) because algorithms escalate content towards more provocative, conspiratorial topics.
  • “It starts off with young dudes who are looking up advice online… Inevitably, you get sucked down into this red pill pipeline.” — Adam Mockler [06:18]
  • Similar patterns happen with young mothers entering "wellness" or "natural parenting" spaces which then nudge towards anti-vax rhetoric.

• Algorithmic Targeting and Personal Agency:

  • The illusion of choice in online content consumption masks how algorithms nudge users deeper into these pipelines.
  • “The end goal of any app… is to keep you on their app for the longest amount of time.… It’s really potent.” — Adam Mockler [08:53]
  • “There is this, like, delusion that we have a real choice in what we’re doing online and that we’re, like, discovering things.”— Interviewer [08:34]

3. Masculinity, Community, and Political Coding of Spaces

• Bonding through Optimization:

  • Routine and supplementation videos can serve as "placeholders for intimacy" among men, giving the illusion of connection without vulnerability.
  • “You still don’t really get to know anything about me, but you know that I’m doing all of these things and that feels like something worth sharing.” — Adam Mockler [06:06]

• The Feedback Loop of Politicized Male Spaces:

  • Many male-dominated or interest-based spaces become “right-wing coded” regardless of actual participant beliefs, e.g., gaming, Barstool Sports, UFC.
  • “The game creators themselves were actually progressive… but I think that overall gaming spaces are right-wing coded and they shouldn’t be.” — Adam Mockler [15:05]
  • Such coding is often amplified by who claims ownership of these communities and by algorithms reinforcing their popularity.
  • “Sometimes my audience gets mad when I play a clip of Theo Von… or Joe Rogan… I can’t show a clip of him talking about politics?… We can’t be so reactionary.” — Adam Mockler [16:35]

• Comedy as a New Right-Coded Space:

  • Even comedy, traditionally a space for pushing boundaries, is now derided as right-coded by some progressives.

4. Progressive Challenges & Opportunities

• Purity Tests and Coalition-Building:

  • The left often falls into "purity test culture," shunning allies or large swaths of less rigidly aligned participants, to its detriment.
  • “You can’t lose your way into the future you want to have.” — Adam Mockler [18:08]

• Importance of Showing Up & Approaching with Empathy:

  • Need for the left to be physically present and to communicate in relatable, non-academic terms in real-world spaces.
  • “We act like normal human beings. We don’t shout people down or finger wag… We should explain things in a way where we’re not over-intellectualizing.” — Adam Mockler [19:00, 20:39]
  • Real-life engagement is often less hostile than online exchanges, and “out of the 70 million MAGA voters, it would be a mistake to say all of them are not worth talking to.” [20:39]

• Learning from Trump’s Emotional Messaging:

  • Over-intellectualizing or relying on factual argument can miss the emotional resonance that drives persuasion.
  • “Trump knows how to pander to emotion. Maybe learn that from Trump.” — Adam Mockler [21:24]

5. The Limits of Reverse Engineering Progressive Alternatives

• Challenges of Creating a ‘Barstool of the Left’:
  • Mockler argues it isn’t feasible to simply create left-wing analogues to already right-coded spaces, as these grew organically from shared apolitical interests now claimed by the right.
  • “You can’t reverse engineer barstool to be left leaning… Barstool was a ground up thing… now gotten labeled as right-wing coded because we kind of, honestly, open up space for that to happen.” — Adam Mockler [23:37]

6. Notable Critique of Right-Wing Influencers

• Direct Confrontation and Media Grift:
  • Mockler describes direct challenges to right-wing influencers (Benny Johnson, Tim Pool, Jack Posobiec), whom he accuses of being insincere propagandists with questionable motives and funding.
  • “They're all directly funded by Russia… I confronted [Jack Posobiec]… he had no answer. He’s like, ‘You need to shave your face, bro.’” — Adam Mockler [22:35]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Masculinity Videos:

  • “The idea that that's the beacon of masculinity is like just a social media facade.” — Adam Mockler [02:45]

• On Memes vs. Genuine Messaging:

  • "There's this weird line that's blurred in the manosphere space where you can't tell when somebody's doing a bit or when somebody is being genuine." — Adam Mockler [02:00]
  • "I'm not performative and weird about it. Like Ashton Hall and the right wingers… I'm usually making coffee and getting right to work." — Adam Mockler [04:03]

• On Pipelines:

  • “It starts off with young dudes who are looking up advice… you get sucked down into this red pill pipeline.” — Adam Mockler [06:16]
  • “It is hyper tailored to keep you on the app… create a feedback loop where you give them more content that will keep them on the app over and over.” — Adam Mockler [08:53]

• On Community:

  • “Sometimes the finger waggy gets a little bit too far… There should be a way we can punch back in an edgy way while we're punching up… rather than being obnoxious.” — Adam Mockler [18:00]

• On Engaging with MAGA Voters:

  • "Out of the 70 million MAGA voters, it would be a mistake to say that all of them are not worth talking to... That's a losing mindset." — Adam Mockler [20:39]

• On Progressive Messaging:

  • "We should just say that trans people should have the freedom to do what they want… rather than over-intellectualizing things." — Adam Mockler [21:10]

• On Failed Left-Wing Analogues:

  • “You can’t reverse engineer the Joe Rogan to the left… Barstool was a ground up thing… Like, if you went up to the barstool dudes… they’d probably be like, yeah, I don’t really care [about these issues].” — Adam Mockler [23:20]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Topic | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------| | 01:22 | Adam Mockler Introduction | | 01:54 | First reaction to viral “morning routine” videos | | 02:45 | Performative masculinity and routine | | 04:03 | Male role models: Galloway vs. Peterson | | 06:16 | The right-wing and wellness content pipeline | | 08:53 | The algorithmic manipulations of social feeds | | 10:22 | Optimization: doing vs. watching | | 13:30 | Right-coded male spaces: Barstool, gaming, UFC | | 16:05 | Progressive pushback in these spaces, comedy’s politics | | 17:41 | How the Left can compete, purity tests | | 19:00 | Importance of in-person conversation | | 20:39 | Talking, not lecturing, to MAGA voters | | 22:35 | Direct confrontation with right-wing influencers | | 23:37 | The impossibility of creating a “Barstool of the Left” |

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Tone and Original Language

The conversation is candid, snarky at times, but deeply earnest about the challenges posed by internet culture and masculinity content. Mockler peppers his answers with humor and self-deprecation, acknowledging his youth and limitations as a role model, but insists on the need for more authentic engagement—both online and in real life—across ideological divides.

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Conclusion

Adam Mockler offers a sharp-eyed look at how online male spaces become right-wing pipelines not only through intentional actors, but also the subtle influence of algorithms, community coding, and progressive disengagement. The answer, he contends, isn’t simply to compete with louder, more toxic voices, but to show up in-person, bring relatable messages, and avoid the purity traps that shrink progressive coalitions. As the left continues to grapple with digital culture, Mockler’s insights challenge listeners to rethink not just tactics, but how and where real connection—and persuasion—can happen.

Transcript

[Erin Ryan]

Over the same old news cycle. Tune in to Hysteria, your weekly group chat with me, Erin Ryan and my co host, Alyssa Mastromonico. Where no topic is off limits. From politics to pop culture. We're bringing you brutally honest takes on the stories shaping our lives from powerhouse women like Elisa Slotkin to wellness trends in education.

[Alyssa Mastromonico]

No sugarcoating, no doom scrolling, just real talk, strong women and hope to keep moving forward. Catch Hysteria wherever you get your podcasts and tune into our YouTube channel for full episodes and our special series.

[Akilah Hughes]

Hey everybody, Happy New Year. I hope it is off to a good start. Even though the world is doing world stuff, our team is working on brand new episodes. But in the meantime, we wanted to share some unedited bonus conversations with some of the people that we've talked to in this series so far. Basically, since this show is pretty highly edited, there's a lot of the conversation that with the guests that just gets left on the cutting room floor. So we thought you might enjoy hearing the full conversations that we were having. In the meantime, we're going to start with my conversation with Adam Mockler. Just last year, you may remember the episode at the time we were talking about this sort of hyper masculine optimization phenomenon. You know, Ashton Hall's morning routine videos going viral, but the conversation veered into Democratic messaging generally and especially how we.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Can speak to the guys. Here's Adam.

[Adam Mockler]

My name is Adam Mockler. I am a 22 year old political content creator. I've been to over 50 different Trump rallies to debate Trump supporters to their face, oftentimes in a respectful way. Now I run a breaking news show that is the largest left leaning Genji show on YouTube. So thanks for having me.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Awesome. Thank you so much for being here. Okay, so I'm going to start with the obvious thing.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Ashton Hall, I know you've definitely seen.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

This Morning Routine video and it's gotten a lot of attention. So what was your first reaction to it?

[Adam Mockler]

I thought it was a joke. I thought it was a complete meme because I only saw other iterations of it that were complete jokes. But then I saw a lot of people kind of taking it seriously and there's this weird line that's blurred in the manosphere space where you can't tell when somebody's doing a bit or when somebody is being genuine. So Andrew Tates, some of my friends I talk to, they'll be like, you know, he's joking half the time, right? But then when I hear my friends talk, they repeat his jokes in like a serious way. So I'M like, he's not joking. He's being serious to you guys.

[Akilah Hughes (closing remarks)]

Right?

[Adam Mockler]

And I don't think joking, I think he's being extremist. So with the Ashton hall thing, to go back to that, I thought it was a joke at first. Then I realized there's kind of a blurry line where some people are taking it seriously and think that that is what masculinity means. I mean, here's the thing. Maybe there's a lesson you can take from that video about routine. I think routine and habit building is very important. But the idea that that's the beacon of masculinity is like just a social media facade.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Absolutely. Yeah. The first time I saw it, I kind of, I think I was on the same wavelength. I'm like, okay, well this is probably.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

A joke because who's waking up at three in the morning if they don't.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Have to like, especially since his job.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Seems to be make that video. Like he could probably wake up at.

[Adam Mockler]

Any time, sets up the camera, runs off, runs back to get the camera.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Right, exactly. So you sort of touched on something that I think is really important here, which is this idea of routine. I think for guys, a lot of the time this idea of optimization equaling.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Self actualization is sort of like their trad wife content or maybe more along the lines of their eating disorder content.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

But there is this sort of connection to optimizing yourself and that being like.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

The main way to be a guy these days.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

So is this kind of stuff landing in your feet often or do you.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Feel like, you know, it just sort of gets sent to you by other people?

[Adam Mockler]

It gets sent to me by other people a lot in a meme format. But I will say, as a young dude who's running a business on YouTube, routine is really important to me. To make sure my daily operations are going. I am constantly focused on like ironing out kinks in my routine. I wake up pretty early, but I'm not performative and weird about it. Like Ashton hall and the right wingers are like, I'm not posting at 5am when I wake up, I'm usually making coffee and getting right to work. And I think that a lot of right wingers use it as a crutch to put other people down or to say like, I'm waking up, I'm building something. Men are meant to build something in society. And it's like, I don't. I know a lot of women that work way harder than I do on a day to day basis. Like my mom works like 12 hours a day. It's insane. So the idea that, the idea that you have to be performative or hyper masculine about it is pretty. Is pretty weird. But I will say I think overall routine is important. We need more male role models. I don't know, it's not going to be me. I'm 22 years old. I don't have the life experience to have to be like a role model yet. Maybe to some people, but I think we need more male role models that can talk about routine, that aren't right wing freaks. Like, you know who I really like is Prof. G lately, Scott Galloway. He's giving a lot of good realistic advice. And you contrast that with someone like Jordan Peterson, who on the surface, if you watch one of Jordan Peterson's 2016 lectures, he's actually giving good psychological advice. He has like three rules. He's like, if you make your bed every morning and you take care of your house and you write down a list of what you want to do, you'll have a good day. That used to be his advice, but now it's like, if you watch three movies that are anti woke and you do this, then it's like, okay, now you're wrapping it in this weird political thing. So just to bring it back, we need some role models that can show us how to create this routine without being right wing oriented.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I hear you on the role model piece and it's something I've thought about a lot. But I also think, like, it's great to get to speak to you because you are so young. Because I think, I don't know, I think that from my perspective, and I'm a, you know, millennial woman, I see unfortunately that, like, these videos are also a way for a lot of guys to bond, right? Where it's like, well, I, I'm taking the right supplements. I'm doing this routine. This is how I'm getting better. And so it almost also serves as, you know, a placeholder for intimacy. It's like, you still don't really get.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

To know anything about me, but you know that I'm doing all of these things and that feels like something worth sharing.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Do you feel like that's on the.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Nose or am I reading into it like an auntie?

[Adam Mockler]

No, that is on the nose. And you're still really young. I don't know. I, I know people. My cameraman's like 31 and he's always like, I just can't party with you guys anymore. I'm like, dude, you're a few years older than me. What the hell? You're not like, you're not like 65. And you're like. To answer your question, yeah. It kind of reminds me of this concept that I talk about called the pipeline, and then the volume. The pipeline to volume phenomena. I don't know what to call it. Something like that. And it starts off with young dudes who are looking up advice online. So say you're a young dude and you need dating advice. A lot of young dudes at some point need dating advice. Inevitably, you get sucked down into this red pill pipeline. And you're watching Andrew Tate and you're like, what the hell? But then if you want to work out, you want to work out all the time and get into a good routine, I'll eventually see like RFK Jr. In my feed. So it's a pipeline. They bring you down it and hit you with a bunch of volume. Now, regarding the pipeline, it's kind of really potent across generations and genders. Even with there's a new study that mothers, a lot of like, new mothers get caught up in this health pipeline that therefore brings them into this anti vax pipeline. It's not like super, super common, but it's getting increasingly common in the digital age for you new mothers or young women to also get sucked up in a similar, like, pipeline. And it's just starts off with being interested in like, yoga videos online. Then you're watching a video that's like, did you know that these supplements have these ingredients? It's like, oh, that's probably true. This is bad for you. And it's. It's the same thing. It's a pipeline from normal workout videos to conspiracies. Now it is extra potent for young men because I have friends who are watching gaming videos, and then a few weeks later I see them liking Nick Fuentes videos. Because on Instagram you can see when somebody likes something, they're. They're in Instagram profile picture pops up when they. Like a reel.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

That's right.

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah. So I see my friends liking reels, and I can see the pipeline happening through Instagram. I'm like, wow, this person is liking some crazy reels when just a few years ago they were normal.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Yeah. And I think that, like, what's unfortunate for I think especially young people is that there's sometimes not an awareness that.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Like, the algorithm is like, is trying.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

To get you to stay like. I think that. And I felt the same way when I was younger.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Also, the algorithms were a lot Less like pointed.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

But there is this, like, I think, delusion that we have a real choice in what we're doing online and that.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

We'Re like discovering things and that makes.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Us feel like, oh, well, I should keep going because I found this.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

And it's like they want you to see that. Like anything you're seeing on Instagram, they want you to see it because enough.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

People saw it and they know that you'll stay there.

[Adam Mockler]

It is hyper tailored to keep you on the app because the end goal of any app, whether it's Facebook or YouTube or Instagram, is to keep you on their app for the longest amount of time. If you're owning Instagram, you don't want Instagram users to swipe over to TikTok and get bored. So as they scroll, you create a feedback loop where you give them more content that will keep them on the app over and over and over. And it's really potent. I feel like on a TikTok it's especially brutal. I'll like a reel about something completely unrelated to all the other reels. And when I scroll, the next reel is about that. Like, if I went on and I liked a reel about the new Superman movie, I'd scroll down and the next reel would be about the Superman movie over and over and over, right?

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

And so it's like they really figured out how to just keep us in place. And I think that it's hard for the left to compete with that because, like, I think a lot of the.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Like, facts and the like reason being.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Reasonable, all of that is not necessarily like a sticky or loud or, you know, exceptional kind of content.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Like, it is just sort of like, oh, but we already know that. I want the thing that's like, you know, black tar heroin. I want to see the thing that's like, women should live in cages, you.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Know, I'm curious if you have friends.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Who have gone in search of optimization content, right? Like they're looking for fitness, looking for CEO and boss advice.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Like, do you feel like that's influenced their politics?

[Adam Mockler]

What do you mean, optimization? Oh, like optimizing their routine and everything.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Yeah, like being like, you need to wake up at this point. You need to have inbox zero. You have to have this many meetings or this many people or whatever.

[Adam Mockler]

I can say with pretty, a lot of confidence. A lot of the most successful people I've met in life don't obsess over Instagram reels about optimization. They do the optimization part right? Like I, I, I work a lot every day and I don't watch the optimization reels, but I'm constantly thinking about like, okay, I got to block out my time and stuff like that. But even other people that I've met, like other people that Midas touch who are incredibly successful and work all day, they're not thinking about optimization. They watch Meme Instagram reels and create Instagram reels. So people my age. I do have friends. This is gonna sound mean, but like, I have friends who live back in my home state of Indiana who are obsessed with the optimization reels, but they're not using it in any other way than I guess working out is a good way to use it. That's not a bad way to use it. But like, yeah, I have friends who I always see liking like CEO reels or optimization reels about this. And I'm like, then do like, you gotta execute on it actually, rather than just getting in the pipeline also.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Yeah, like, I mean those kinds of, that kind of content didn't exist when.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Most of these people became CEOs. So how true is it that you have.

[Adam Mockler]

There's a difference between watching the reels and executing and doing like reading self help books. There's a time and a place. I do it too. I do like to like delve into self help books, but it's finding the application to your life. If you're actually like about to execute, God bless you. I'm not even religious. I don't know why I said God bless, but no. If. If you're going to watch one of those reels and take a little nugget of information, write that nugget down, then execute on that nugget for a few weeks. That's way different than like watching real after real after real and not you internalizing it all.

[Akilah Hughes]

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[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Cement mobile.com so I'm curious what other kinds of male dominated social spaces feel like they're politically coded to you? Like in my mind. And this can be online like barstool.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Sports feels a little bit to the.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Right, you know, but are there other places that I think maybe people on.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

The left aren't even considering are like.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Places where people are becoming a little.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Bit more pushed to the right or put in the pipelines?

[Adam Mockler]

You know, an interesting one that I've never like actually talked about, but I just remember this from a few years ago. I used to play Call of Duty relentlessly when I was a kid. Like that's how I got my start was playing a bunch of Call of Duty Duty in Minecraft. And I remember in 2020, or it might have been 2021, I think it was 2020 when the BLM protests were going on. Call of Duty. It was like Call of Duty. Warzone at the time was the name of the game and all of my friends would be playing it and you'd go into lobbies and people would just talk major shit like no one's nice on the game. No one's nice. But I remember doing during the BLM protests, you would log on to Warzone and there would be a message on your screen and it says, for this game, we support black lives. And we fully. I forgot the wording. It was like we fully do not like the police abuse that's going on. We, we want to support all movements. Go to this website blacklivesmatter.org to help support. So the point is a game that you think would be right wing coded, where you go online and everyone's screaming at each other trying to be masculine. The game creators themselves were actually quite progressive. So that's a weird little schism that you see right there. But I think that overall gaming spaces are right wing coded and they shouldn't be. I think that barstool sports, right wing coded, UFC of course. Ufc, Like, Trump walks in on ufc. I have friends that have watched UFC before Trump was in politics, like, their whole lives. And I see them posting on their story, like Trump doing the walkout, and I'm like, I know this person knows nothing about politics.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Right.

[Adam Mockler]

But that's potent. You see him walking out, I'm sure they think it's badass. I'm sure it looks badass to them. You couple that with a photo of him almost getting a sav. Like, they probably think that's cool as hell.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Yeah.

[Adam Mockler]

So gaming, I'd say fitness a little bit right wing coded. None of these things have to be too. None of them have to be right.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

I mean, I live in Los Angeles. When I go to, like, fitness classes.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

I don't ever feel like there's some undercurrent, weirdly.

[Akilah Hughes]

But, I mean, it's like it depends.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

On where you go in town, I guess.

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah, yeah. Or just the online algorithm makes it seem right wing coded.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Yeah. Or like that's how you'll make friends. There is like.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Well, you know, they're like, I think.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

It makes people believe the real world is that way. So then they start sort of like.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Seeking it out almost subconsciously.

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah, I, I, I'd have to think about it more. But those are some good spaces. Absolutely not good spaces. Those are some good spaces to keep your eye on.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Yeah, yeah. To be aware of.

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah. But I, I think it's really important that we push back on these spaces or we push back on right wing domination in these spaces. Because I work out. I know friends that work out or go fishing or do all of these things, and they are absolutely not right wingers. So it's just, it's, you have to push back on this stuff, and we have to be in these spaces. Sometimes my audience gets mad when I play a clip of, like, Theo Vaughn. Oh, that's another one. Comedy. Comedy is now kind of right wing coded when it.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Yeah, wasn't before.

[Adam Mockler]

Theo Vaughan. Right. So sorry, let me mute this.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

No, you're fine.

[Adam Mockler]

Before. Sometimes I'll play clips of Theo Vaughn on my show or Joe Rogan on my show, and my audience has this very reactionary response where they say, don't even platform Joe Rogan. Why are you even platforming this person? And I'm always like, guys, listen, I know we disagree with Joe Rogan. I know he said some things in the past, but he has a massive audience of people who are just apolitical. The idea that I can't show a clip of him Talking about politics. And by the way, the clip was him disagreeing with Trump and saying that Trump is going too far. And I'm like, like, you guys can't be so reactionary where I can't even have these conversations. I can't show clips of Theo Vaughn, someone called Theo Vaughn like a fascist. And I'm like, okay, listen, Theo Von is probably a little bit not smart on politics, but I don't think he's a fascist. I think he's just not smart. We can't.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

He's like uneducated. Right?

[Adam Mockler]

He's uneducated. And also he's pretty empathetic at some points. I've seen him talk about certain issues like Gaza, and he seems empathetic. I just think we sometimes push people out of these coalitions.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Yeah.

[Adam Mockler]

And in a way that we shouldn't when it comes to maybe fitness or comedy. And I'm not trying to place all of the onus on Democrats. I would never do that, of course. But I think it's worth pointing out, you know.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Totally. I mean, that absolutely leans into my final question, which is sort of like, how does the left actually compete in that way? Because I think you're right. There is a purity test culture, especially the further left. You go right, like there, and I look, I consider myself pretty left, but.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

It'S like, I think that that's a major downfall of any sort of progressive movement is being like, well, they don't agree on this, so they're out. And it's like, okay, but we actually need them. Like, this is about numbers, guys. You only win with numbers. You can't lose your way into the future. You want to.

[Adam Mockler]

And even if we don't agree completely, conversation is important. Part of the reason why Joe Rogan was able to sway his audience so right is because the lack of left leaning voices. Now, that could have been Joe's casting crew only picking right wing voices. I don't know the full setup there, but I can say with certainty that if Pete Buttigieg was on there with the same frequency that Elon Musk was on there, that people to judge would be winning over a lot of voters. He's good at what he does. He goes on to Fox News and he's great at what he does. I think it's important that we get in these spaces. We act like normal human beings. We don't shout people down or like finger wag. Sometimes the finger waggy gets a little bit too far. And there are cases where we should finger wag. Like when People are defending racism or doing insane stuff. Like, there should be a way where we can punch back in an edgy way while we're punching up. And in defense of trans people, in defense of minorities, rather than being obnoxious in defense of people. And I hate to say that, but like, I feel like some people on the left at times can be purity testy or obnoxious when it's like, yo, we have the right position, right? If you really want freedom, let trans people be free to live their lives.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Right?

[Adam Mockler]

And you know, just explain it like that.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Totally. Like, there does seem to be this breakdown across the board where it's like, I think people know they're right, but they're also used to losing.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

And so there is this like, defense mechanism. And like, sort of like, yeah, it's.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Just not a welcoming energy. I mean, here's my theory and let.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Me know if this sounds like something that we could actually succeed in.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

But do you think since I feel like the Internet's lost, right? Like the Internet's lost.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

We did our best, but the real world, a lot of space out there. What if we started having fun in reality?

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Do you think that that could sway.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Some right wing people?

[Adam Mockler]

Oh, my Lord, you don't even know how much I love this theory. So I've been to all these Trump rallies and I always have this canned line that I use when I'm talking to people. I go, listen. You know how when you go online, everybody's at each other's necks and they like hate each other. I find that when we talk in person, even if we disagree on some fundamental concepts, we can have a good conversation. Now granted, I'm like a white dude going into a Trump rally. I probably have a more privileged experience than other people would. But either way, a lot of times when you talk to somebody in person, whether they're an apolitical voter, a non voter, whether they're like just a MAGA voter who thought the economy wasn't in good shape, a lot of people will reach middle ground with you. Out of the 70 million Maga voters, it would be a mistake to say that all of them are not worth talking to.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Right?

[Adam Mockler]

And people in my comment section say that, they say, like, it's not worth having these conversations and you're never going to win over a MAGA voter. That's a losing mindset. Go with, go out there in person, talk to people, know when to draw the line. Of course, but it's also about not over intellectualizing things. I think a lot of Times people in our space want to have very academic conversations in non academic spaces. So you know how I said earlier, like, we should just say that trans people should have the freedom to do what they want. I think that's a message that would resonate with a lot of Americans. But a lot of times people on our side and Republicans get into the nitty gritty of all these, like certain specific arguments about this and that and it's like, just make the base emotional argument. Maybe learn that from Trump. He knows how to really pander to emotion rather than over intellectualizing things or having an academic conversation in the wrong place. Imagine just being like a random dude from the south and someone tries to trap you in an intellectual conversation about the downstream effects of certain things. It's like, okay, we can explain, I think we should explain systemic racism to people in a way where we're not over intellectualizing it. I've done that. There are clips of me at Trump rallies trying to explain the downstream effects of redlining without over intellectualizing. And that's just what I'd say.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I think that like all of this is really helpful and it's so great.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

That like, you know, you and your.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Generation have actually grown up with the Internet. So I think that you can sort.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Of see it from, you know, you.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Can see the forest for the trees.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

In a way that I think that, like, I've. I was already on the pipeline when.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

You were coming along, but that's super helpful. Devin, is there anything we're missing for the interview?

[Akilah Hughes]

So he's off camera and off mic, but since we focused our conversation on the unintentional online spaces that feel really right wing coded, my producer Devin asked Adam a question about the very brazenly intentional right wing spaces and actors online.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Here's Adam.

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah, I think that Benny Johnson, you know that dude, Tim Pool, I mean, they're all directly funded by Russia. Yesterday I was on a Piers Morgan panel with Jack Bock. Jack Boc was one of the dudes who was at the White House and he was flashing up the Epstein fold shoulders. So I confronted him yesterday. I was like, how do you feel that you were used as a pawn to cover up the sexual abuse of children? And he had no answer. He's like, you need to. His answer was, you need to shave your face, bro. That was literally his answer on a Pierce morning. Okay, so you covered up the sexual abuse of children. I'm a 22 year old who needs to shave.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Okay, exactly.

[Adam Mockler]

Why?

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Why do you want me to look younger.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

Oh, that would.

[Adam Mockler]

That would have been so good.

[Interviewer (possibly Erin Ryan or Alyssa Mastromonico)]

Let me on, Pierce Morgan.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

They don't let me off.

[Adam Mockler]

That would have been so good.

[Akilah Hughes]

Of course.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

And I say yes. They're like, actually, no, she's a bully. She'll hit him.

[Adam Mockler]

That's a really good one. That's how that. That would have been so viral. Now I'm gonna be in the shower later kicking myself.

[Adam Mockler (continuation or another speaker closely involved in discussion)]

It's all right, it's all right. I'm sure you'll have another. You'll. You'll end up talking to one of those freaks again.

[Adam Mockler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The point is he is like, not really good faith. He's insufferable, and he's a terrible human being. And I think that a lot of these people are plants intentionally designed to spread propaganda. Tim Pool is somebody who is again, paid by Russia to spread propaganda. And I agree with what you were saying, Devin, that you can't reverse engineer the Joe Rogan to the left. When I did one of the Corriere panels, or it might have been a. Another panel, I can't remember, I remember saying like, the bar stool of the left is a little bit of a misnomer, if that's the word. It's. It's a misnomer because like, you can't reverse engineer barstool to be left leaning. Barstool was a ground up thing where a bunch of dudes got together for apolitical reasons. I would almost guarantee, like half of the dudes at barstool are actually quite liberal. Like, if you went up to the barstool dudes and you're like, do you think gay people should get married? Do you think trans people should have the right to do this? They'd probably be like, yeah, I don't really care. I don't give a. So like, the thing is they've now gotten labeled as right wing coded because we kind of, honestly, we kind of open up space for that to happen when we allow right wingers to take, to claim victory over these things. Like, barstool is ours, sports are ours, and it's like receding that ground. If you listen to Joe Rogan, you're a right winger. So then right wingers are like, oh, I'm listening to Joe. I must be a right winger. And then we kind of create this self feedback loop. Now that isn't to say that Joe Rogan doesn't say a lot of crazy right wing stuff. I'm not trying to downplay that at all. But I think there's a line we have to draw where we're not pushing people away.

[Akilah Hughes]

Thank you for listening or watching. And again, this was my uncut conversation with Adam Mockler for a previous episode. So while we're busy working hard on brand new episodes, we're going to send you some more of these uncut conversations in the next few weeks. Stay tuned.

[Akilah Hughes (closing remarks)]

How Is this Better? Is written and hosted by me, Akilah Hughes. It is produced by Devin Maroney and edited by Shane Verkus. Kevin Dreyfus is the Managing Director and Executive Producer at Courier, RC Demezzo is VP of Brand and Social and Charlotte Robertson is Deputy Director of Brand and Social Media. Tracy Caplan is VP of Distribution and Sales. If you want to reach out about sponsoring or advertising, reach out to inforiernewsroom.com Marianne Kuga is Director of Marketing and the original music is by Used People and artwork by Danielle Depleto.