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- [00:01]
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- [00:30]
Akilah Hughes
Hey, I'm just wondering if you're mad at me. Give me a call when you get this. Hi. Just trying you again. You know, if you're mad at me about something, you just tell me that.
- [00:38]
Noor Azriah
I don't.
- [00:39]
Akilah Hughes
I don't think we have to avoid each other.
- [00:40]
Unnamed Speaker 1
We're adults.
- [00:41]
Akilah Hughes
All right, well, it's been like 15.
- [00:43]
Unnamed Speaker 1
Calls now, so I'm just.
- [00:44]
Akilah Hughes
I'm wondering if there's something I could do, if there's something that I did. Look, I think our relationship is worth fighting for. I think that we should just talk about it. Okay, Call me back. Love you. Bye. Mailbox full. We need to talk about Canada. Historically, we've had a great relationship with our friendly neighbors. We're basically cousins. Some of the biggest stars in entertainment, sports, media, literature, everything, have had crossover episodes here in the us. We basically co parent to Justin Bieber, raising him and arguing about who is responsible for who he is. Now our cultures are inextricably linked.
- [01:18]
Unnamed Speaker 2
But now the old relationship we had with the United States, based on deepening integration of our economies and tight security and military cooperations, is over.
- [01:28]
Akilah Hughes
Look, our relationship wasn't perfect, but I still think it's worth fighting for. Canada was America's closest friend, a country that I'd pretend to be from if I was visiting Europe, so I wouldn't have to hear how dog water, where I'm actually from, is given. Right? It's where they say aboot and sorry and make super good maple syrup. They were the US's closest trade partner, and dare I say, they have the best pavilion at Epcot.
- [01:54]
Unnamed Speaker 3
And now, to be honest with you, Canada only works.
- [01:57]
Akilah Hughes
Things look totally fubar. So today I'm asking, how is it better to wage a warrantless trade war, Escalate tensions with what sounds like war war rhetoric and spread out and out lies about a close ally and neighbor?
- [02:13]
Noor Azriah
It's been a whirlwind, to say the least. I mean, just before I came onto this call, I'm here with my Colleagues in Ottawa. There's an election right now. One of my colleagues came up to me and was like, I think Trump just put a 90% pause or something like that. And we're kind of going through the day like, not knowing what's coming next.
- [02:33]
Akilah Hughes
This is Noor Azriah, host of the Canada Land podcast. And the election we're discussing has since happened with anti Trump Mark Carney annihilating Trump sympathizer Pierre Poilev to remain Prime Minister after Trudeau's resignation in March. And anti Trump and in turn, anti American sentiments influenced the election heavily, but not without reason.
- [02:54]
Noor Azriah
I mean, the US And Canada have always been besties, Right?
- [02:58]
Unnamed Speaker 1
I always think of it as America's hat.
- [03:00]
Noor Azriah
Yeah. No, really. And I think it's fundamentally changed the relationship, not just on, like, a political level, on a geopolitical level, but even just in the hearts and minds of Canadian people. There used to be this funny thing in Toronto. We used to always say, like, toronto's just like New York. Nobody is saying that anymore. We are nothing like America. We are nothing like Americans.
- [03:21]
Unnamed Speaker 1
No. What's to say that.
- [03:22]
Noor Azriah
So I think it has, like, really fundamentally reshaped the way Canadians think about America. No hate to Americans. We get it. You're not your president.
- [03:31]
Unnamed Speaker 1
But I listen, I'm mad at a lot of us. I'm mad at a lot of us. And you're welcome to share in my anger at a lot of us.
- [03:38]
Noor Azriah
It's a new era for sure. There was a before and there's an after, and Trump has fundamentally reshaped the relationship between the U.S. and Canada. That's an understatement.
- [03:48]
Akilah Hughes
Even so, what are Canadians mad about? It's not like threatening military intervention to take over their land is that big of a deal. Right?
- [03:56]
Noor Azriah
Let's start at the beginning, when. When he first made those 51st comment jokes, the Governor Trudeau jokes, or at least that's how they came off the first time. I was actually home over the Christmas break when he made those comments, and I was like, oh, you know, these are war words.
- [04:14]
Unnamed Speaker 1
Yeah.
- [04:14]
Noor Azriah
Like, maybe it's because I'm Arab and I know what it sounds like for the US to go to war. And I was like, oh, yikes, this is not good. But I remember seeing the discourse online about those comments when Trump first said them. It was like people really took it as a joke. Like, this is a. This is a meme, President. We're just gonna laugh and hahaha, he says things. But I think it has taken a massive Turn. Canadians love being Canadian. They love not being American.
- [04:45]
Unnamed Speaker 1
Everybody these days.
- [04:46]
Noor Azriah
Yeah, that will say true through and through. But even about a month ago, Canadian politicians weren't really saying, donald Trump is saying he's going to annex us. Donald Trump is saying we're the 51st seat. A month ago, we weren't saying that part out loud because I think most of us would think it's so outlandish. I want to start with these Trump jokes.
- [05:05]
Unnamed Speaker 4
Certainly these comments are interesting because if they are a joke, then, you know, perhaps they're, they're, they're fine. And it's just this social evening, as Canadian ministers have been describing it, for.
- [05:15]
Noor Azriah
A president to say something about, you know, a country who was, could still be their strongest ally. Yeah, but now we have Justin Trudeau, ex Prime Minister. We have Mark Carney, current Prime Minister, we have Conservative leader Pierre Poliev. All levels of government saying this is true. He is saying this. It's not a joke anymore.
- [05:37]
Unnamed Speaker 2
Having met with the owners of Canada over the course of the campaign last several months, it's not for sale, won't be for sale ever.
- [05:45]
Unnamed Speaker 3
But never say never. Never say never.
- [05:48]
Noor Azriah
And so the political is kind of waking up to that. But I think Canadians themselves, like those who were first laughing when they first heard those comments, are no longer laughing. Those are the same people who are flying Canadian flags on their porches. These are the same people who are now boycotting American products, not drinking American booze, buying Canadian. There's this huge buy Canadian moment that we're living through right now. This is my last bag of American products. You know, even Quebec, I'm not sure, like, most people are familiar with the kind of inner workings of, of Canadian politics, but Quebec is a, is a province that doesn't really identify strongly with Canada. They don't have a strong national identity. They have tripled in the percentage of people who have a deep, strong national identity. It has, again, fundamentally changed the way people think about Canada and the future of this country. There was a before, and now we are in the after.
- [06:48]
Akilah Hughes
I'm from Kentucky.
- [06:49]
Unnamed Speaker 1
We have an incredible governor, Andy Beshear, and he's a Democrat. He has been really outspoken. He's probably going to run for president.
- [06:57]
Akilah Hughes
But he has been talking a lot.
- [07:00]
Unnamed Speaker 1
About how this hurts American businesses because he also thinks that these tariffs and these sorts of threats to Canada are stupid. Right. Like Kentucky does a ton of business in terms of, you know, they export bourbon. It's where bourbon comes from.
- [07:13]
Noor Azriah
And we drink lots of it.
- [07:15]
Unnamed Speaker 1
It used to. Right. And it actually is deeply affecting just business as usual in many of these states. I think that specifically on the tariffs, it's sort of changed the reality of what it means when Trump says something because there is an immediate impact.
- [07:32]
Akilah Hughes
In addition to invasion threats and outsized tariffs, Trump has also levied accusations of fentanyl coming through the Canada U.S. border.
- [07:40]
Unnamed Speaker 3
The fentanyl coming through Canada is massive.
- [07:43]
Akilah Hughes
There's pretty much no evidence to suggest this is a major issue. But the truth has never stopped Donald Trump from lyin.
- [07:49]
Noor Azriah
It's bullshit. Let's talk about fentanyl for a second. So, yeah, this is his on the books justification for slapping on these tariffs, the other being illegal migration.
- [08:00]
Unnamed Speaker 3
They've allowed millions and millions of people to come into our country that shouldn't be here. They could have stopped them and they didn't. And they've killed 300,000 people last year.
- [08:11]
Noor Azriah
My opinion, his problem is the so called porous border. He claims that 43 pounds of fentanyl were intercepted at the US Canada border in 2024. We actually had a Globe and Mail investigation. So this is a Canadian paper finding that 15 pounds of fentanyl that was attributed to the northern border had in fact originated from Mexico. And they could only identify 5.5 pounds of drugs coming in through the northern border. 5.5 pounds. Just to put that into perspective, that is two bags of sugar. And I'm not saying that's not nothing, but it is hardly this tidal wave that describing, look, fentanyl, there's a crisis in Canada, there's a crisis in, in the United States. Like 50, 000 people have died from overdoses since 2016. But that's not it.
- [09:03]
Unnamed Speaker 1
That's not the same thing.
- [09:05]
Noor Azriah
Using this to justify the trade war between, you know, two of the most interconnected countries, whether that be economically, politically, just, you know, socially, it's, it's an interesting way to go, to say the least.
- [09:19]
Akilah Hughes
I would love to hear, you know.
- [09:21]
Unnamed Speaker 1
Your thoughts on the Canadian response because obviously it is bullshit, right? Donald Trump has become famous for a lot of things. One of them is lying. Lying for whatever reason to, you know, further his agenda. Obviously Canada didn't just like hear that and accept it. What was sort of the response that you heard and, and what are you hearing now?
- [09:40]
Noor Azriah
It's interesting. Canada folded first time around. When Trump first made those comments, it was like, okay, we'll play your game. Before the tariffs actually went through Canada to, you know, regulate the border. Justin Trudeau made that visit down to Mar a Lago to See, Trump, we invested 1.3 billion Canadian dollars to a border plan aimed at, like, preventing fentanyl from crossing the border. We were playing the game here. Part of the 1.3 billion included things like helicopters, surveillance, increased patrol.
- [10:12]
Akilah Hughes
Geez.
- [10:13]
Noor Azriah
We even had Premiers Premier of Alberta Danielle Smith head down to the border and take a video for Fox News and be like, look, there is not thing here, right? It was quite fascinating to see how Canada reacted at first. We were shaken in our boots and doing a lot to kind of quell Donald Trump's concerns. We even appointed a fentanyl czar. Like, for the love of God, we don't have czars here.
- [10:44]
Unnamed Speaker 1
But also, like, why is it always a czar? Right?
- [10:47]
Noor Azriah
It really was. We were playing Donald Trump's game. We let him set the ground rules and we kind of went with it and then they didn't bite. Canadian agencies keep saying, like, you know, we are seeing decreased numbers of fentanyl crossing the border. Again, it's not a lot. It's. It's something, but it's not a lot, but the number is going down. And then we heard, I can't remember. You can fact check me on this. So it's either Howard Lutnick or Carolyn Levitt who was saying like, well, the number of overdoses in America hasn't gone down. You've seen it.
- [11:18]
Unnamed Speaker 3
It has not been a statistically relevant.
- [11:21]
Noor Azriah
Reduction of deaths in America.
- [11:23]
Unnamed Speaker 3
It's just black.
- [11:24]
Akilah Hughes
And it was Lutnick fact checked. Up next, how Trump changed the trajectory of the Canadian political landscape.
- [11:36]
Unnamed Speaker 4
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- [12:06]
Unnamed Speaker 5
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- [12:36]
Akilah Hughes
Without question, Trump's odiousness affected the outcome of the election. But I'll let Noor tell you how.
- [12:42]
Noor Azriah
It has turned our world upside down again. A couple months ago, the Conservatives were sky high in the polls. It was an inevitable Conservative win. That is just not the case anymore. The Conservatives are down a lot, numbers that we haven't seen throughout the course of this campaign. The Liberals are skyrocketing because Mark Carney again.
- [13:06]
Akilah Hughes
We now know that Carney won. Back to Noor, who saw it coming.
- [13:10]
Noor Azriah
It has changed the game for sure. Again. Two months ago, ballot box question was, who's going to help me afford groceries? Who is going to help make sure I can put food on the table? What about housing? What about all this stuff? That is not the ballot box question anymore. Our ballot box question is who is best fit to deal with the chaos machine downstairs. Donald Trump. There's also this really interesting thing going on where the rhetoric of Trump and just how he is is being weaponized against Conservative leader Pierre Paliev. A lot of people are drawing comparisons between him and Donald Trump. The kind of regurgitated, woke liberal agenda. The World Economic Forum, you know, you're hearing very similar things. But it's interesting. Donald Trump does not like Pierre Poliev. He said that. He said that multiple times. He went on the Spectator and did an interview where he said, pierre's not a MAGA guy. I don't like him.
- [14:11]
Unnamed Speaker 3
The Conservative that's running is stupidly no friend of mine. I don't know. But he said negative things.
- [14:17]
Noor Azriah
He doesn't kiss the ring.
- [14:18]
Unnamed Speaker 1
Yeah.
- [14:19]
Noor Azriah
So it's interesting to see how the parties are kind of oriented themselves in relation to Trump. It's moved the dial on things politically. I think it's, like, revitalized. This, like, strong sense of national unity, but also, like, an interest in redeveloping and rebuilding the Canadian economy to be more independent. You know, we're knocking down interprovincial trade barriers as a result of this trade war. You know, we're moving in a direction where Canadians and the Canadian political, political, Political class is looking to be able to stand on its own two feet, sustain.
- [14:56]
Unnamed Speaker 1
Without us.
- [14:57]
Noor Azriah
Yeah. Without you. Totally.
- [15:00]
Unnamed Speaker 1
It's so true. It's the saddest thing in the world. But it's like, this is so helpful to hear because I think for a lot of Americans, I think that there is just a culture of narcissism about this country. Right.
- [15:12]
Noor Azriah
You said it, not me.
- [15:13]
Unnamed Speaker 1
It's just a fact, you know? And I mean, look at the White House. Like, it's almost like this is what. Of course, like, the Foregone conclusion would be that's who's going to lead us. If this is how we see ourselves is so important, crucial. No one can survive without us. And so when you see an economy as large as Canada's, as close as Canada's, starting to say, we don't necessarily need you, we can start negotiating not only with ourselves, but with other countries, it also just, I think, sounds off the alarm that other countries are going to do this as well. Like America is not the beginning and end of the world. I think the US really is in an identity crisis over this moment. Because I also think, to your point, if the election was held today in the United States, there's a good chance. And this is, you know, based on nothing but vibes.
- [16:00]
Noor Azriah
Yeah.
- [16:01]
Unnamed Speaker 1
But I'll say, look, I spend time on social media and it's real quiet from the right right now. It just appears that I think, you know, people were fooled into thinking that this would be some return to a pre pandemic economy, that there was some method to this madness. And in actuality, it is just the continuation of a narcissist's, you know, sort of baseless ideas. And the fallout of that.
- [16:25]
Noor Azriah
It's interesting, when the tariff trade war, Trump's trade war, first started, the reaction in the US was a little bit quiet. It was muted. I think a lot of people, you know, I can't blame them. A lot is going on in the US this is just another one of the many things that people are dealing with.
- [16:44]
Unnamed Speaker 1
Added to the pile, you open your.
- [16:46]
Noor Azriah
Phone and you're scrolling through videos of, you know, ICE raids and the White House making, I don't even know what to call them, like edits of deportations. You're talking about, you know, gutting US.
- [16:59]
Unnamed Speaker 1
Aid and endless plane crashes. Let's not forget that.
- [17:03]
Noor Azriah
What is going on there is a lot to keep track of, but I think with the help, I think of the lobbying efforts of our government in, you know, making sure Americans are aware of what's going on. We've, we've had, you know, all of our premieres all over us, US Media. There was a saying before, like that we used to say, like, Canadian politics is really boring. It is no longer boring anymore. This morning I saw this tick tock, actually. It was like Donald Trump being like, we're gonna grow the economy like never before. And it's a, it's an image of all the stocks, like in red plummeting. There's either one an appetite to hear about these things, but two, just like Maybe there is some free time on Americans plates to take a look at what's going on here.
- [17:49]
Akilah Hughes
So did Trump single handedly stop the rise of fascism in another country simply by being himself?
- [17:54]
Noor Azriah
Trump has single handedly revitalized the Liberal Party. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts. The Liberal Party was deeply, deeply unpopular. Justin Trudeau was deeply unpopular. And now they're projected to win a majority government.
- [18:13]
Akilah Hughes
And did they? Did they won?
- [18:15]
Noor Azriah
That's what we're talking about here. He has fundamentally altered the dynamics in our political landscape right now in ways that I have never. I've never seen a comeback like this in such a short amount of time.
- [18:30]
Akilah Hughes
It was fascinating listening to someone so well versed in Canadian politics really lay out how badly the US Fucked up. But after the break, I'm going to see if my actual friend in the north will answer my call. Stay tuned.
- [18:43]
Unnamed Speaker 5
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- [19:13]
Unnamed Speaker 1
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- [19:16]
Unnamed Speaker 6
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- [19:44]
Silke Labson
Yeah, what am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to have another phone or something?
- [19:48]
Akilah Hughes
Phew, she answered. Silke Labson is my friend who relocated to Canada during the first Trump term, and I wanted to hear from her what things are like now.
- [19:57]
Silke Labson
Now, basically, when Trump got elected, like, I vividly remember waking up and seeing it on the screen and crying for about seven days straight. And that kind of started the thought in my head, you know, people said we're moving to Canada. I was like, yeah, let's like, let's do that.
- [20:12]
Unnamed Speaker 1
Like, what if we actually tried it.
- [20:14]
Silke Labson
And it's because it's hard. I came here for, like, a climbing trip, took some photos, ended up staying a week long. Hi, Fauci.
- [20:20]
Akilah Hughes
Fauci is my dog.
- [20:22]
Silke Labson
Anyway, staying a week longer and just fell in love. Like, all of that intensity that I was feeling in the States, it's. It's tangible. Like, it was very tangible. Like, I'm not joking. When you get off the airplane, you're walking through, it's calm. There's first nations, like, indigenous art everywhere. Just everything about it is a bit calmer. And immediately I was like, oh, this is my little Zen zone, you know? Like, I felt like I was meditating through the airport, which you'd never. Especially la.
- [20:51]
Unnamed Speaker 1
God, yeah. LAX is not that.
- [20:53]
Silke Labson
So I. I came here and I just felt a sense of relief. People weren't, you know, talking about politics. They were just talking about that the sun was out because it's half the time rainy here. It's kind of like San Francisco. I decided, hey, I want to make this work. And it was not easy. I had to find a job, get them to sponsor me. It was pretty. Like, I'm not joking. It cost me in total about $20,000 to move here. With all the legal. It wasn't easy. Yeah, but I tell people, like, what's harder? Fighting for your basic rights and your rights as a woman, or paying and working really hard to move somewhere where I'm not going to have to worry about that.
- [21:29]
Akilah Hughes
I mean, that's beautiful.
- [21:31]
Unnamed Speaker 1
And also, like, obviously you haven't moved back to the U.S. so, I mean, in addition to just like, that, I think political freedom and the feeling that, like, you can live a life that isn't just completely surrounded by the politics of the day. What else is keeping you there?
- [21:45]
Akilah Hughes
What do you like about it?
- [21:46]
Silke Labson
It's been seven years. Like, how crazy is that?
- [21:49]
Unnamed Speaker 1
That is a lot of time.
- [21:51]
Silke Labson
I know I was. Was going to bars, and now I'm on a. I live on a chicken farm, so.
- [21:57]
Noor Azriah
Yeah.
- [21:57]
Unnamed Speaker 1
You grew up in Canada, Actually, yeah.
- [21:59]
Silke Labson
I feel like. I feel like I grew up in Canada, but what kept me here, it's so many things, like, especially wanting to be. Like, I was a photographer in LA and a stylist for a long time, and those are all freelance jobs. You don't have healthcare. Your. Your money is up and down. Right. One month you're. You're like, okay, ramen time, and the next year you're going to like Nobu. So it's.
- [22:20]
Unnamed Speaker 1
It's true.
- [22:21]
Silke Labson
And healthcare is Such a huge. A huge thing. And when I moved here, I'm a freelancer. Like, I have dirt bikes, so I constantly am hurting myself. I've been to the hospital quite a few times. And you go in. And the first time I went, I thought I broke my arm. They did everything. They're like, hey, you're good to go. Here's some Advil. And they. I just said, what do I do? I sign? What do I. They're like, no. You just go, wow. And I started crying because when my appendix burst in the state I was living in Glendale, I had motion picture health insurance. I'm not sure if you know that, but that one. It's real. You probably. It's really good.
- [22:55]
Unnamed Speaker 1
Yeah.
- [22:55]
Silke Labson
I sold $10,000.
- [22:57]
Akilah Hughes
Geez.
- [22:59]
Unnamed Speaker 1
So it's like, it. You know, how much does it even matter? You know, like, after a certain point, money is just money.
- [23:04]
Silke Labson
Yeah. So again, it's like, I moved here, it cost me so much, but it's like, Right.
- [23:09]
Unnamed Speaker 1
You ended up just saving half of it.
- [23:11]
Silke Labson
Yeah, I would have saved ten grand if my appendix would have just waited, like, a few years.
- [23:18]
Akilah Hughes
And beyond the perks, like, not facing bankruptcy because you got injured, we talked about the perceptions people have of Americans in Canada now, do you ever tell people that you're from the US or.
- [23:28]
Unnamed Speaker 1
Do you just try to, like, avoid the conversation?
- [23:31]
Silke Labson
It depends who I'm talking to.
- [23:33]
Unnamed Speaker 1
Yeah.
- [23:34]
Silke Labson
Like, I can't tell you how excited I am to travel with a Canadian passport. You're just like, I'm Canadian.
- [23:40]
Noor Azriah
It's.
- [23:40]
Silke Labson
We're all good.
- [23:40]
Akilah Hughes
Right?
- [23:41]
Silke Labson
So, yeah, I do. I do tell people. It always starts a conversation. So it's also like, what's my social battery?
- [23:48]
Unnamed Speaker 1
Yeah.
- [23:48]
Silke Labson
Am I willing to do this right now? Because it can go two ways. Like, the very conservatives, like, why'd you move here? Canada taxes me when it's really. If you've lived in California, our taxes are not worse than California.
- [24:01]
Unnamed Speaker 1
Yeah. It's not so different. Right. It's pretty comparable. And. And you get more for them in Canada.
- [24:07]
Silke Labson
So if they're liberal, it starts a whole Trump conversation. And sometimes if they're in the middle, it starts a Trump Trump conversation. And again, it's my social battery, but I try to just leave it out as much as possible unless it actually comes up, because it is. It is divisive in many ways. Now, I wasn't worried about it before.
- [24:28]
Akilah Hughes
My. How far the US has fallen in my lifetime. I went from seeing so much admiration for the U.S. especially from allies, to now, this moment where Being American in Canada is. Is seen as especially heinous. But I'm curious if this relationship can be repaired.
- [24:43]
Unnamed Speaker 1
This is my last question, but what do you think it would take at this point now and for how long to get back to a good relationship? Are we just broken up?
- [24:53]
Noor Azriah
I'm optimistic. I don't think. Let me. Let me think.
- [24:57]
Unnamed Speaker 1
Wait.
- [24:57]
Noor Azriah
Actually, I'm not. What we once had is no longer anymore. And I think that that solidifies the thinking, thinking of many Canadians right now, the framing of Canada as some hostile actor. We've never been framed that way by an ally.
- [25:15]
Akilah Hughes
I would say.
- [25:16]
Unnamed Speaker 1
Not even really by the enemies.
- [25:18]
Noor Azriah
No. Really. Like people, like Canadians. Do I think that the relationship is over? No. But do I think that there was a before this and then after this? Absolutely. And I don't know what it will take to get back to where we were, and I'm not sure we ever will. This was pressure on our sovereignty. This was an infringement on our identity as Canadians. It's not just a trade war. It's existential for Canadians, and I don't think they'll forget that.
- [25:50]
Akilah Hughes
I think it goes without saying that the answer to how is it better to destroy your relationship with a close ally is. It's not. It's not better to hurt both economies. It's not better to hint at taking their land. It's not better to spread easily debunkable lies to further your own deeply ignorant agenda. It's just not better. Canada. Sorry, how is this better? Is written and hosted by me, Akilah Hughes. It's produced by Devin Maroney and edited by Shane Berkus. Kevin Dreyfus is the National Managing Director and Executive Director at Courier. Arcee Demezzo is VP of Brand and Social, and Charlotte Robertson is Deputy Director of Brand and Social. Original music by Used People Show Artwork by Danielle Del Plato. Tipping culture is out of control. Yesterday I tipped someone just for handing me a napkin. So when hotels.com gives me up to 20% off for being a member, I finally get tipped. And you know what? It feels good. Hotels.com, members save up to 20% off at hundreds of thousands of hotels.