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- [00:00]
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- [00:32]
Akilah Hughes
This is what we're up against. This is what we're up against. This is what we're up against. Hey, hey, hey. Welcome back to How Is this Better? The show where we look at the news, the discourse, the whole flaming dumpster, and ask one simple question. So, how is this better? I'm your host, Akilah Hughes, and today we are putting on the costume of the season, the look that has launched a thousand drag impressions, a thousand memes, and at least one weird earnings call. We're talking about Erica Kirk. Yes, that Erica Kirk, the pyrotechnics widow, the CEO of Grief, the woman who looked at her husband's assassination and thought, this could be my Beyonce at Coachella moment. To help me figure out what on God's Internet is happening, I'm joined by one of the sharpest journalists covering online culture, politics, and how women get chewed up by both. Her newsletter is Spitfire News. You can see her daily news commentary on Courier's YouTube channel. And she is exactly the person, person you want next to you when the discourse gets stupid. Please welcome Kat Tin Barge costumes on Mike's Hot. Let's get into it. Before we get to, like, what is happening now, I'd like to talk about Turning Point usa. Obviously, they're a force in American politics, especially for young people. So I'm curious if you know, how you became aware of them and what they sort of mean now and what they meant before Charlie Kirk was assassinated.
- [02:03]
Kat Tin Barge
Yeah, so I became aware of Turning Point USA as they were sort of becoming this phenomenon on college campuses and Charlie Kirk himself was becoming this, like, massive conservative influencer. And when they really like their rise, I feel like in 2018 and around, like Trump's first election really is like when I think I first started becoming aware of them. And I was in college at the time and like random conservative speakers, I went to a college in Ohio so random conservative people would come to our campus, like Charlie Kirk did not. But like Caitlin Bennett, the Kent State gun girl. Came to our campus.
- [02:39]
Akilah Hughes
So is that the one who like, pooped her pants? Allegedly. In New York.
- [02:42]
Kat Tin Barge
Okay, Yep, exactly.
- [02:44]
Akilah Hughes
Just for my own memory, there's so many of them on that side now that. Okay, so poop pants came to your campus.
- [02:49]
Kat Tin Barge
Exactly, yes. And so this was becoming a really popular online style of content as well, where just like conservative provocateur yells at like, woke liberal college students back and forth. And so that was when I first became aware of TP usa.
- [03:06]
Akilah Hughes
Totally. And that sort of tracks for me. I'm older than you, but I remember, like, you know, in Covid TikTok sort of became this huge cultural force and like, people kind of understood the power of short form video and you saw more of it. And so, you know, once we were all back in the world, it seemed like I was constantly seeing these debate me bro type videos. And obviously Charlie Kirk was at the forefront of that. Turning Point USA is his company. I mean, I'm curious, like, you know, we all know that last September, Charlie Kirk was assassinated at a college doing sort of the same work you're describing. How would you say that? I guess the perception of Turning Point USA has changed since then. And does that sort of. Do you think that they are in control of how they are now perceived?
- [03:48]
Kat Tin Barge
It was so interesting because right after Charlie Kirk was shot, it felt like every single person who I was friends on Facebook in middle school, like, came out of the woodwork to post these, like, Charlie, R.I.P. charlie, like, what? People shouldn't be killed over their political opinions. It was like this big normie, like, backlash to the shooting that happened right afterwards. But very quickly, that reaction devolved into just like meme territory. And I think like the AI we are Charlie Kirk song was a huge part of that because it went from something that the organization Turning Point usa initially, they were seizing onto this as almost a moment of opportunity to, you know, stand next to the president, stand next to the vice president, like, put Turning Point USA on the biggest stage it ever had. And then almost immediately, because they so callously were weaponizing the death of their founder, that's when the public opinion really shifted and turned into a kind of mockery that is now, I would say, like the main thing you see associated with Turning Point.
- [04:57]
Akilah Hughes
Totally. And like, you know, I guess in American memory, like the sort of martyrdom of people who are assassinated has happened really naturally across, you know, decades where it's like, yeah, this. This person stood for something that, you know, was politically maybe unpopular, but, like, was seen as morally as a good thing. Like, typically, that's what happens when, you know, people start memorializing people is pointing to their beliefs. Similarly, I'm from Kentucky. A lot of the people I knew growing up stayed conservative and, you know, really tried to push this idea of Charlie Kirk as a martyr in the same way as Martin Luther King as a John F. Kennedy. And I felt like even they didn't believe that. And it always felt more akin to, like, these assassination attempts with Donald Trump. So, like, do you think that the right just doesn't have an understanding of, like, why people mourn, the people they mourn, or is it. And, like, they were maybe looking for their moment, their George Floyd feeling, their Martin Luther King feeling. They're like, this was an injustice that was done to someone who was just speaking the truth. Like, is it just not a thing that they understand? Or, like, why did it get soured so quickly?
- [06:07]
Kat Tin Barge
I feel like there was a really bad faith campaign to act like Charlie Kirk was similar to these historic figures, when in reality, like, we know that Charlie Kirk, not only was he, like, just a podcaster, as many people pointed out, but also his entire ideology was regressive. It was not pushing people toward, like, a brighter future. It was very much so. Like, it was based in trolling people. It was based in attacking people, despite what the turning point. And the right claimed, he wasn't about unification. He was about division. So. And if they really believed that he was this great figure, you would not have seen hundreds of people get fired just for reposting the words he actually said. So, yeah, I feel like among the. The right, there's a big group of people, probably a lot of the decision makers and people with power who are very cognizant of what they're doing. And then there's kind of just, like, the fake flock that I think does really view Charlie Kirk as one of those historic figures that is just kind of falling for it.
- [07:12]
Akilah Hughes
Yeah, there definitely seems to be just, like, a breakdown between, like, reality and what they were trying to sell as an idea. And I also think, you know, I'm curious what you would think about this, but my understanding of the times we live in are that, like, people feel like they've been lied to about so many things. They feel like, you know, we're all existing in this rigged system where the truth is never really coming out and we're being told what to think. And I think that this situation bumped up against that. Like, a lot of what I was seeing on my Facebook feed, for example, was about how he was just a Man of faith, going from school to school talking about Jesus, but the majority of his clips are not about Jesus at all.
- [07:52]
Kat Tin Barge
Not at all.
- [07:53]
Akilah Hughes
And so do you think that, like. Because I also think that what's unique about, you know, that pivot with the We Are Charlie Kirk song becoming a meme with Charlie Kirk's face, that we're calling it the Kirkification. Like, you know, people saying, you know, well, Kirk and you and Lee or whatever, all of these sort of phrases. And like the pop culture takeover that is like, now it's a meme, now it's a joke. Bumping up against that because it feels like, well, this is disingenuous. And I. I see it as someone who, like, just wants to see the truth. So considering that's coming from the left and right, what do you make of that? Like, the fact that it isn't just the left making this joke. In fact, I would say the left was very much like, we're not glorifying it.
- [08:31]
Kat Tin Barge
Yeah.
- [08:31]
Akilah Hughes
And then the right was like, this is silly.
- [08:34]
Kat Tin Barge
Yeah. No, and I feel like a lot of that has to do with Charlie Kirk's extremely online presence. Like, people who were actually familiar with Charlie Kirk before he was killed were very aware of what his whole shtick was. It was like under a veil of being about just like old fashioned Christian conservative values, when in reality he was pushing, like election fraud, conspiracies, and just like any hot topic that the right had seized on as a culture war. And that stuff does not look very honorable, you know, in respect. So I think, as you saw, and yeah, I think a lot of people were sort of reacting to seeing all the news reports of people getting fired of teachers, you know, being pushed out of school districts, like people from all walks of life receiving blowback. And people also pick up on the hypocrisy of knowing that, like, when people on the left are killed in politically motivated incidents of violence, right wing politicians mock them from their official social media accounts. So people see that inequality and sort of disproportionate response, and there's a desire to mock it and to meme it. And because Charlie Kirk had this very, like, long Internet history with all of these viral moments, it was just like, I feel like it was fertile territory. And I also think that the right and just like part of human nature is not wanting to be left out of the joke. So almost the minute when it became clear that the tone was shifting around Charlie Kirk and we weren't gonna do the whole, like, he's Martin Luther King, Jr. Of this generation, like, that wasn't going to work. So as soon as it started to flip and you saw like the viral memes, I think everyone just wanted to get in on it.
- [10:21]
Akilah Hughes
Right, right. And it does seem like the right has a real fear of being left out of a joke or like being made fun of. And so it's like, okay, well, if this isn't going to stick, we really got to take control of that messaging. When we come back, we talk about the new look TP USA ushered in by Erica. Well, to get back to like Turning Point usa, then, like, I think initially they felt like we have this huge uptick in interest and we're on all of these college campuses. But what we've seen in recent weeks and months is that, you know, the young Republicans are resigning from their post. They're being. Their chapters are being disbanded. And now the new leader of Turning Point usa, Charlie Kirk's widow, Erica Kirk, is just not really the firebrand that I think she expected to be. In the wake of his passing, there was a lot of conversation about how he was gonna run for president in 2028, and they took out a future president. And I think there was a small shift for a minute. I mean, I remember reading about the idea that Erica Kirk was gonna be the first female president. Yeah, I tend to doubt it now. Like, maybe I'll be eating my words, but I tend to doubt it. So I guess, like, you know, do you expect any sort of, like, I guess, let's just back up what happened here. Like, how did she fumble, I guess, this opportunity to be the next president.
- [11:51]
Kat Tin Barge
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that just like from the outset of Erica Kirk's reaction and her public performance after her husband was killed, it just like it was immediately, it was the drag queen ification of Turning Point USA because. And interestingly enough, it wasn't even aesthetically similar to what Charlie Kirk did. Like, Charlie Kirk's campus tours were made to look down to earth like they were. It was like he was sitting literally behind like a folded table, talking face to face with students on these campuses. What Erica Kirk did was this like high budget thing that was more reminiscent of a mega shirts, like Christmas celebration.
- [12:35]
Akilah Hughes
Right, right. Like, yeah, WWE intro.
- [12:39]
Kat Tin Barge
Yes. Like the righteous gemstones. Like all of these actually parodies of right wing Christian culture is what she immediately tried to do and it did not work. And I think one of the things that really works against her is the fact that on the right, the culture around women is that you are going to be Submissive to men, you're going to be obedient to your husband and you're going to be sort of modest and always secondary. You're always standing like behind the male figure of authority. Like, that is the ideology around women that these people believe in. So even on the right, you saw this rejection of Erica Kirk immediately saying, I'm going to become the next CEO of Turning Point usa. I'm gonna, you know, have the spotlight on me and I'm gonna do it to such an extent that is so theatrical and so performative. And people across the political spectrum were like, whoa, this is not how you would expect a widow to behave. And even if those expectations are rooted in, like the belief that, you know, women should be quiet, that women should be docile, the. What Erica was doing was so clearly self serving. She saw this as a moment to take power and exactly what she tried to do.
- [13:55]
Akilah Hughes
That's right. I mean, I think that something that I kind of noticed was, you know, like we were discussing, I mean, TP USA is before anything else, and a digital organization, like, they do the recruiting there, their videos are all like their entire business model. And I, I'm curious because, like, you seem to understand the Internet from like a. It's like a very insider perspective that, like, is it because of the speed with which the Internet moves? Do you think that that influenced why she was like, and now immediately I have to be in front of people, I have to seize this moment without any self reflection because I tend to think, and I, again, I'm, I'm a millennial, I'm older than you. That like, had she waited until today when we're recording this to like, speak out about it, like, have a regular funeral and then take the time that most people, I think, take when they lose a loved one to then say, okay, based on the liberations that we've been having internally, we decided it was best for me to take the reins of the organization in Charlie's image. Do you think that that maybe would have lessened the occurrence of the memes? Because the memes are endless.
- [15:05]
Kat Tin Barge
Yes, I think it would have. And I think that, like, what you saw playing out, like the reports that came out about Turning Point afterwards was as soon as she, you know, took this immediate step to sort of like dig her heels into this position of power, that's when people at the organization started to say, like, this is not right. This isn't what should be happening. And it did feel almost like Shakespearean, like that she was waiting for her in the Wings. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I'm like, I don't even feel like that's an uncharitable view because it was so bizarre, viscerally bizarre to see someone whose husband had just been killed in such a violent way to like take the stage with fire crackers going off behind her. It did feel like a parody of itself. And it makes you wonder, I wouldn't be surprised if in like a few years we get like the tell all of like who was really orchestrating, like, whose idea was it for her to be wearing this outfit, to be using these pyro effects? Like, it was a fascinating and ultimately spectacular failure of like a rebrand.
- [16:12]
Akilah Hughes
Yes. And. And when I think about, you know, just the fact that his death was so public, typically, and look, I don't. I can't really think of that many other like public assassinations that like to that degree that were shared so viscerally that were reported on minute to minute, that you know, someone who is, I guess, like so close to that person. Not saying respect our privacy at this time and stepping back, the fact that so much of the grieving was done so publicly with, you know, in our politicians are celebrities. So like with celebrities with moneyed interest, as you pointed out, Like, I mean, do you think that that is that attributed to why people felt it was fake? Like, is. I guess I'm just curious, like in from all of the reporting you've seen and from all of the, you know, I guess just like pop culture memory, is this like any other murder you've ever seen? Like, responded like response? Because even when I think of George Floyd, it was like, listen, I didn't know that man. But it also was sort of like weeks later that there like there was plenty of discourse and like the family was not a part of the reaction. So it does feel like maybe it was just like too, not beyond too much just like too personal, too involved, too public. So I guess, like, is there a lesson from this for other people in the event, like, if political violence is this escalating issue that we're seeing, like, what should people learn from this? I guess.
- [17:39]
Kat Tin Barge
Well, it's really interesting because just in recent days, like I've seen people start to do almost like a reaction to the reaction where they're like, maybe people are being too hard on Erica Kirk. Like, maybe it's actually misogynistic to like judge this woman so harshly for the way that she's grieving and for like the trauma that she's experienced. And I find this really interesting. And ultimately, like I. I unfortunately have to disagree because what I think is happening here is Erica Kirk is trying to girl boss like her husband's assassination. She is someone who does not embody feminist values. She is actually explicitly anti feminist and works against women. But she's trying to use the privileges that feminism has granted her. The ability for a woman to be a CEO at all, the ability for a woman to wear pants, the ability for a woman to do all of these things that she's now trying to harness in the wake of her husband's assassination. She is doing like a fascist girl boss shtick. And it didn't work. And it could never have worked because the audience.
- [18:48]
Akilah Hughes
Her audience.
- [18:49]
Kat Tin Barge
Right, exactly. She cannot. You cannot, as a conservative woman, you, like, you reach the ultimate final boss, which is your own ideology.
- [18:58]
Akilah Hughes
And that's exactly the tension I wanted to talk with Kat about next. Here is someone who has chased the spotlight and has been personally ambitious, but the most success she's found is telling other women and girls to give it all up to serve a husband. She won Miss Arizona in 2011. Then she went for Miss USA in 2012. That's Trump's organization. She tried to go on. She went on a Bravo Show, Summer House 2019. So this is not a long time ago. You know, she got her master's degree in legal studies and her doctorate in Christian leadership. She started a Christian clothing and lifestyle brand. She also worked for a real estate company owned by a Shark tank person in 2019. She started her own podcast in 2019. So all of that to say, at the very least, she's been very ambitious, which is nothing wrong with that. I am a feminist, so I'm like, go get your bread. Yeah, but like, how does that square, I guess, with this ideology? Like, yeah, how do you, you know, do these Turning Point conferences where you're telling women to drop out of college to find their husband or when they find their husband and not go into business and be a stay at home mom when she's on the stage saying it, presumably being paid to say it. You know, is it a grift when a doting wife and mom also happens to be making a lot of money?
- [20:12]
Kat Tin Barge
Right. And I think that, you know, within conservative ideology, women aren't allowed to ultimately be ambitious. Your ambition has to be couched in, like, classical conservative values. Which is why her relationship with Charlie made sense. She went into Turning Point for a job interview and she left. Left as like, the wife of the founder of Turning Point usa, which was one of the only ways she could ascend to power. But there's always going to be, like, you're always going to hit the wall at some point where it's like there is an immovable barrier in conservative ideology where women are not allowed to have more power than men. And you also see this playing out simultaneously with the women in Trump's cabinet, because Trump puts women in his cabinet. He puts women in these powerful positions. Kristi Noemi, Pam Bondi. And then what ends up happening is these are the first women to go out the door. They're the scapegoats. So it's like, any promise, any what. What. What ambitious conservative women are ultimately rewarded with is being scapegoated. So there's no promise for it. There is no, like, you know, rainbow at the end of the tunnel for, like, conservative women seeking out these positions of power. And the problem is they viewed the world through a lens of, like, this is the only way I can do it. But it's. They are unwilling to challenge, like, the ultimate, like, status quo. They're. They're unwilling to challenge the patriarchy because that's the only thing that had given them power up until that point.
- [21:42]
Akilah Hughes
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I want to touch on this quickly, but, you know, when Charlie Kirk is, you know, assassinated, she kind of immediately, Erica immediately is making the statement that they killed him. They being the broad left, liberal apparatus belief system. And I think that, like, a lot of reporting kind of misses the fact that, like, if that is the message, it's a message that's falling on deaf ears. Like, people just don't seem to care about that. Do you think it's because it is, like, obviously disingenuous, or do you think that it is just, like, it's just too big of an accusation?
- [22:17]
Kat Tin Barge
It's a good question. I mean, I think it's really interesting that simultaneously Candace Owens is creating these conspiracies about Charlie Kirk and finding like. Like such a wide audience for them. But a huge part of what Candace's conspiracies appeal is that Erica Kirk herself was, like, part of the mission to, like, to. To get Charlie or whatever. So I think it's very telling that, like, Erica's version of this, like, the left was out to get him, did not resonate widely. But Candace's version, which is that Erica was out to get him, that did resonate widely. And it's like, again, like, you appreciate appeal to these systems that ultimately, like, villainize women the most. And then you act surprised when that system, when the lovers eat your face. But Erica Kirk, like, she's not even moving away from these systems that have failed her. She's continuing to double, triple, quadruple down. Like, she is an agent of the, like, ultimately white Christian supremacist movement that her husband was such an important figure in. She's not losing sight of that, and it's costing her so much simultaneously, but she is, like, insistent on pushing ahead with it.
- [23:27]
Akilah Hughes
There's also, I think, the fact that the right is so focused on never vilifying guns. This is a gun violence incident. The question, his last answer was about gun violence and was a little racially tinged. And so you don't see Erica Kirk coming out against guns. She was in attendance at this point, you know, alleged assassination attempt at the White House correspondence dinner. You don't hear her coming out against guns. So I also think that there tends to be, like, there's no real scapegoat. Like, if the left generally is the problem, but they're the ones arguing against gun violence. And then on the right, you just keep seeing it. I think that it's like, obviously the woman is the easier argument to have. Like, we're not. There's, like, there's no points to be made otherwise. And so that has been just sort of something that I've noticed. But I do want to talk about the Candace Owens of it all. I want to talk about the Drew Ski of it all. I guess let's start with Drew Ski, because he has sort of been the person that has gotten under her skin the most. And similarly to the fact that, like, people were just reading Charlie Kirk's own words back and getting punished, she's hoping that people are going to be punished for sharing a video of a man who is literally just doing what she did, didn't name her, but, like, no one else, unfortunately for his defense, I guess, is going out in front of pyrotechnics, making appearances, kind of like making their name by crying, and also, like, being easily, easy, easily parodied because of the way she uses her eyes, the way that she's kind of always making a face. So this is, like, something that's causing her a lot of distress, or at least it's creating a lot of content on her behalf. Why do you think that bothered her so much?
- [25:07]
Kat Tin Barge
Yeah, I think that, you know, and it's interesting because in addition to the Drew Ski video, there have also been some drag queens who have been doing Erika Kirk drag. I went to a performance of one of them in Brooklyn, and it was so good. And it's like, it's undeniable how much Erica Kirk's public performance translates into these, like, drag impressions of her. Like, she is such an easily. Like, she's such a character. There are so many.
- [25:35]
Akilah Hughes
Yeah, it's easy to parody because there are so many very specific things that only she is doing.
- [25:40]
Kat Tin Barge
Yep, yep. And I think, like, her response to this is really interesting because she's invoking, again, like, this kind of almost like, pseudo women's empowerment. Like, she would never use the word feminism, like, in a positive way, but she's calling on people to be like, look how cruel and mean and, like, sexist without saying sexist that these portrayals are. But the reality is, like, her version of empowerment is just no one is allowed to make fun of her. Like, to your point about, she's not advocating for gun rights. She's not advocating against misogyny. She is. Is strictly concerned with herself to the detriment of other people. Like, she continues to cause all of this harm while being like, but no one's allowed to make fun of me. No one's allowed to make fun of me. And the reality is mockery and drag and other types of performance like, this can be a very effective tool in, like, disarming and breaking down, like, these, like, fascist conservative forces. So people should not stop making fun of Erica Kirk, because as long as she represents, like, this propagandistic arm of the federal government, then she has to be mocked. Because what people don't realize is, like, her ideology is endangering all these other women. The vast majority of women are endangered by her ideology. So, like, she has to be called out and combated.
- [26:57]
Akilah Hughes
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I also, like, I guess I'm curious if you wonder about this. Like, Trump's numbers are in the toilet. He is the party of, you know, facts, don't care about your feelings, you stupid snowflake. And so, like, do you think that that entire. I mean, like, this moment of conservatism has backed itself into a corner where now, like, they kind of have to laugh at themselves because otherwise they look like chomps?
- [27:22]
Kat Tin Barge
Yes. Yes. I've seen some really interesting posts recently that are basically, like, conservatives have gone from being like, you know, like, snowflakes, like, f your feelings, whatever, to now taking on the position of, like, I am a victimized little baby, like, everyone needs to be nice to me. Like, you see them, like, reverse course so quickly as soon as it threatens them, and as soon as that, like, cultural pendulum starts to swing against them because they love it when people mock the left, their entire humor is based on, like, mocking and undermining the left and oftentimes mocking, like, unchangeable aspects of people's identities and like, mocking their communities and undermining them in ways that has real harmful consequences. But as soon as you do, like, some harmless mockery of like, their social faux pas, that's when they're like, you guys are so mean. You guys have no morals. Yada, yada, yada, like they're, they take on the. The shield of victimhood.
- [28:19]
Akilah Hughes
Absolutely. I mean, this is just an aside, but when Charlie Kirk was assassinated and I went on Facebook and I saw all of the locals from Kentucky having their, like, you know, discourse about it, there was a girl from my high school who, you know, I responded to something she posted and I'm like, I just think that he was a racist based on what he wrote, based on what he said, based on, you know, what he believed, frankly, like, what he espoused. And she was like, I draw the line at this. And I've noticed that, like, that person is not posting about him. It hasn't even been a year. Like, it seems like all of that sort of, of victimization fell away because there's an artifice to it with the Candace Owens of it. It feels deeply personal between the two.
- [29:03]
Kat Tin Barge
Yes.
- [29:05]
Akilah Hughes
So, you know, have you watched Bride of Charlie? This sort of made for TV style documentary about Erica Kirk?
- [29:12]
Kat Tin Barge
I've seen clips of it and I'm like, familiar with Candace's like, tone and the way that she spins these conspiracy webs.
- [29:21]
Akilah Hughes
What do you even make of this feud? Like, is Candace angling to take some of the TP USA audience? I mean, it seems like she has her own audience and there may be some overlap, but like, I guess, like, what, what is the end game for either of them in this? Is it just, like, let's just tear each other apart?
- [29:39]
Kat Tin Barge
I think, like, it's so interesting because Candace is an influencer in her own right and a huge influencer. Like, Candace is so good at what she does and Erica does not have that background. Like, before Charlie's passing, nobody really knew who Erica Kirk was. Unless you were like a TP USA superfan or like someone who worked at Media Matters.
- [30:04]
Akilah Hughes
Yes.
- [30:05]
Kat Tin Barge
To know who all these people were. So Erica doesn't have the sort of finesse in like, dealing with the public that Candace does. And Candace is using everything about, like, women hating against Erica. And it's funny to me that people are more mad at like, Drew Ski and like, the Liberals who are, like, mad at Erica. I'm like, Candace is, like, spending, like, doing massage, like, doing all of this has got, like, autistic stuff.
- [30:32]
Akilah Hughes
Yeah. She's like, on the line of being, like, libelous or something.
- [30:36]
Kat Tin Barge
Oh, totally.
- [30:37]
Akilah Hughes
What has happened? And yet it's like, well, I think for them, it's all a reality show. I mean, I guess, like, just to sort of wrap it up and, like, get your sense of all of this. Like, what do you think this means for the future, you know, of the right? Does it really matter to the broader conservative movement? And, like, has it diminished in the wake of the We Are Charlie Kirk song and the Drew ski video? Like, do you think that the kids still care about any of this or there's going to be any sort of lasting positives for the Kirk family?
- [31:10]
Kat Tin Barge
That's such a good question. I feel like the kind of what Erica Kirk is trying to do to me feels like an era of conservatism that is coming to a close. Because to me, it's like Erica is feeding into the mainstream maga, like, aesthetics and politics and, like, standing next to JD Vance, like, hugging JD Vans, like, you know, very closely.
- [31:34]
Akilah Hughes
They're all very close together now.
- [31:36]
Kat Tin Barge
Yeah, she's embracing what has worked up until this point in, like, recent Trump politics world. But what's happening in the conservative party more broadly is we're seeing the schism, and on one side of it, it's like the ultimate Trump loyalists. But you've seen so many MAGA people, like, start to criticize Trump, not because they're, like, finally waking up or because they're, like, actually good people, but just because they see how unpopular Trump, Trump has become and that there's going to be a future of the Republican Party without him. And so they're all trying to rush to gain power and influence in whatever comes next. And that's what Candace Owens is very clearly doing. She's taken an extremely hardline stance against Israel. She's criticized Trump, Trump's criticized her. Like, Candace is kind of doing her own thing. You have, like, the Nick Fuentes group where it's like, he's like, I would vote for a Democrat, like, et cetera. And then on the other side, you have Erica, who is still trying to, like, ride that wave of, like, having that in status with the Trump administration. And that I don't think is going to ultimately be successful for her either. But. And with her sort of coming back to ultimately a defense of morality, like, everyone should be nice to me. Everyone should pay their Respects. It's too late. It's too late. We already saw the pyro.
- [32:58]
Akilah Hughes
Right, exactly. You just, you did a world tour. So it's like, I think we know. Absolutely. I guess her attendance, you know, Erica Kirk attended the White House Correspondents Dinner not as a person who's fighting for the First Amendment, not to celebrate journalism, not even to like just enjoy jokes about Donald Trump, which is, you know, typically that's what happens at these events. And then he would get up and make some remarks. He. She was there as a critic of the press, as a, you know, a critic of who she sees as an enemy of Donald Trump. And so when we see all of these people and I, I haven't seen that many, but anybod sort of making the statement like, well, I feel bad for her because now she's just sort of like here at this moment where, you know, there was a perceived threat and probably she's traumatized. Like, how do you, I guess, square that, like, her worldview is inherently about, like, taking away the rights of people.
- [33:49]
Kat Tin Barge
Yes. Yeah.
- [33:50]
Akilah Hughes
And so like, how, how can people even feel bad for that? I guess.
- [33:54]
Kat Tin Barge
Right. Yeah. I think a lot of people, like, are seeing really images, like very evocative images of her. And so far, and this will continue to be the majority reaction, is just like mock her. But then when you actually listen to what she is trying to say, it's somehow even more dangerous. She's like, she's like, you know, before the shots rang out, I was going to the White House correspondence dinner to like to show my face in front of all of these journalists who have like, done me so wrong. And it's like, what are you talking about? Because first of all, she's a propagandist.
- [34:27]
Akilah Hughes
Yes.
- [34:28]
Kat Tin Barge
And second of all, the mainstream journalists in that room are the exact same people who were like, their colleagues were getting fired for like saying that Charlie Kirk was in the wrong. Like, these are not the people who pose any threat to Erica Kirk. These are actually like the, this is the mainstream part of the industry that has enabled her. So it's such a facade and it's like such a joke for her to act like she needed to be there or like why she was there. So I just hope that people don't lose sight of that because in her quest for power, she wants to do it for like the worst things. She, she wants to use that power for the worst agenda imaginable.
- [35:06]
Akilah Hughes
Yeah, yeah. It's all very self serving and it's a very dated version of Trumpism that Just doesn't carry water anymore. Well, is there anything you want to add, anything that, you know, you think people are missing about this entire situation and who she is as a person that maybe just isn't getting coverage? Because I think everybody's talking about it. But, you know, from your perspective, is there. Is there anything else or. That's all there is.
- [35:28]
Kat Tin Barge
I would just say now that I've started to see people do, like, the reevaluating, like, are we being too hard on her? It's like, it's not a question of, like, are we being too hard on Erica Kirk? It's like, what is Erica Kirk trying to sell to the public? And how does that actually have, like, much wider consequences for. For women behind her as an individual? Because a lot of these Republican women and a lot of, like, white women in general know that they can hide behind their tears and have people feel sympathetic for them. And so, like, that video of Erica Kirk walking out of the White House Correspondence center in tears, I think that started to make people feel bad for her. And I'm like, please don't forget that she's literally trying to, like, demolish all of our rights. Like, don't give her cover to get away with that aspect of it. So that's my. Those would be my final thoughts.
- [36:16]
Akilah Hughes
Yeah, absolutely. She did not attend that dinner as a journalist. She attended that dinner as a fan girl and part of the regime. Well, Kat, thank you so much for being so generous with your time and talking me through this, because my policy is, like, the less I know about Erica Kirk, the better. And I do enjoy the jokes, and I think that, like, this is very clarifying, so I appreciate it.
- [36:36]
Kat Tin Barge
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
- [36:39]
Akilah Hughes
So how is this better? It's not. A woman whose entire ideology says she should be standing quietly behind her husband decided that her husband's mother murder was the perfect launchpad for her CEO era. The pyro went off, the drag queens got to work, Druski lives rent free in her head, and the empire she's trying to inherit is already cracking down the middle, while Candace Owens turns the family business into a true crime podcast. If there is a takeaway, I think Kat said it best. The question is what she's selling and what it costs the rest of us. So go ahead, make the joke. Wear the costume. You know, mockery is a tool, so use it. Huge thanks to Kat Tin Barge. Subscribe to her newsletter, Spitfire News. Follow her work over at Courier, and tell her Akilah sent you if you liked this video Smash that like button. Leave a Review Subscribe Send it to that cousin of yours who's still confused about the We Are Charlie Kirk song. I'm Akilah Hughes. This has been How Is this Better? And I'll see you next time. How Is this Better? Is a production of Courier. It's written and hosted by me, Akilah Hughes. It is produced by Devin Maroney. Video editing is by Shane Verkus. The rest of the team at Courier includes Marianne Kuga, Sam Hollows, and Charlotte Robertson. Please subscribe to follow How Is this Better? On all the platforms, YouTube, Apple, podcasts, Spotify, et cetera. And tell someone about your favorite episodes. If you're interested in sponsoring episodes or giving us products to try and try to sell, reach out to advertiseuriernewsroom.com thanks for listening and until next time, see ya.
- [38:32]
Kat Tin Barge
Sam.