How to Fight Back Against Alligator Alcatraz and Inhumane Immigration Policy

Summary

Podcast Summary: "How to Fight Back Against Alligator Alcatraz and Inhumane Immigration Policy"

Podcast Information:

• Title: How Is This Better?
• Host: Akilah Hughes
• Episode: How to Fight Back Against Alligator Alcatraz and Inhumane Immigration Policy
• Release Date: July 25, 2025
• Description: Akilah Hughes challenges the misleading promises of political and corporate figures by delving into the harsh realities of current immigration policies and their impact on marginalized communities.

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1. Overview of Inhumane Immigration Policies

The episode opens with Unknown Activist painting a bleak picture of the current state of immigration in the United States. They describe a progression from subtle intimidation to overt aggression against immigrants:

"It starts quietly. A van idling too long outside your building... We are living in a country that's building modern day concentration camps, rebranding them as border control and a stand in for the justice system." ([00:46])

This segment sets the tone for the episode, highlighting the erosion of humane treatment towards immigrants.

2. Project 2025: A Blueprint for Oppression

Unknown Activist introduces Project 2025, labeling it as a strategic plan aimed at dismantling democracy and targeting marginalized communities under the guise of law and order:

"Project 2025 is exactly what it sounds like. A blueprint for dismantling democracy and targeting marginalized communities under the guise of law and order." ([02:19])

Unknown Political Figure attempts to distancing themselves from the project:

"I have nothing to do with Project 2025 that's out there. I haven't read it. I don't want to read it purposely. I'm not going to read it." ([02:19])

However, Unknown Activist counters this denial by referencing data alignment with Trump-era executive actions:

"Nearly 45% of the non-tariff related executive actions from Trump so far align directly with the plans in Project 2025." ([02:29])

3. The Acceleration of Aggressive Policies

Justino Mora, an immigrant rights activist, shares his surprise at the rapid implementation of aggressive immigration policies:

"I think it was going to take them maybe about a year or so... but it's tough because we were now saying, we told you so." ([03:10])

He emphasizes the reactive nature of activism in the face of swiftly evolving governmental strategies.

4. Alligator Alcatraz: The Modern-Day Concentration Camp

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on Alligator Alcatraz, a state-funded detention facility in Florida, drawing parallels to historical atrocities:

Unknown Commentator describes the facility as:

"A concentration camp that was thrown together shoddily, that is already flooded... There's a sign outside of the facility that calls it Alligator Alcatraz." ([11:10])

Justino Mora provides harrowing details of the conditions:

"There are 32 male individuals per cage... The drinking water comes from the toilet apparatus in the cell." ([10:52], [12:32])

Unknown Activist highlights the lack of oversight in state-run facilities:

"With state-sanctioned facilities, you create an environment where people can be disappeared without record." ([14:03])

5. White Supremacy and the Targeting of Minority Communities

The conversation delves into the underlying motives of current immigration policies, suggesting a white supremacist agenda:

Justino Mora asserts:

"I think it's to advance white supremacy and acquire more power... they're attacking black and brown immigrant communities." ([17:30])

Unknown Activist adds context by comparing the Supreme Court's actions to historical injustices:

"The Supreme Court this year has paved the way to revoke Birthright citizenship... reminiscent of Japanese internment, American slavery, Jim Crow and more." ([16:21], [22:25])

6. Activism and Community Defense as Beacons of Hope

Despite the grim realities, Justino Mora offers a glimpse of hope through grassroots activism:

"We're seeing people in their own way, fighting back against fascism, trying to prevent these kidnappings... There is hope in fighting back if we come together, if we support and love each other and fight for each other's rights." ([20:05])

He emphasizes the importance of community defense groups and mutual support in combating oppressive policies.

7. Conclusion: A Call to Action

The episode concludes with a powerful reminder from Unknown Activist:

"How is this better? It's not... This is a dark moment in this country." ([22:25])

Akilah Hughes urges listeners to recognize the severity of the situation and to take active roles in advocating for justice and humanity.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Unknown Activist ([00:46]): "We are living in a country that's building modern day concentration camps..."
• Unknown Activist ([02:19]): "Project 2025 is exactly what it sounds like..."
• Justino Mora ([03:10]): "It's tough because we were now saying, we told you so."
• Unknown Commentator ([11:10]): "Alligator Alcatraz... is an official naming convention."
• Justino Mora ([17:30]): "I think it's to advance white supremacy and acquire more power."
• Unknown Activist ([22:25]): "How is this better? It's not."

---

Final Thoughts: This episode of "How Is This Better?" serves as a stark examination of the current state of immigration policies in the United States, drawing attention to the systemic injustices faced by marginalized communities. Through firsthand accounts and expert analysis, Akilah Hughes and her guests underscore the critical need for collective action and sustained activism to counteract these oppressive measures. The recurring question, "How is this better?" challenges listeners to critically evaluate the purported benefits of such policies and to advocate for a more equitable and humane society.

Transcript

[Akilah Hughes]

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[Justino Mora]

I would say 80% of the worst case scenarios that I've thought about in the last 10 years have occurred. That's my fear, that we're going in this unstoppable train towards the worst possible scenarios that we can imagine.

[Unknown Activist]

It starts quietly. A van idling too long outside your building. A neighbor disappears, a text thread goes dark. Then one morning the door gets kicked in and suddenly you're a suspect in your own neighborhood. Not because you did anything wrong, but because of who you are and where you were born, what papers you do or don't have. We are living in a country that's building modern day concentration camps, rebranding them as border control and a stand in for the justice system, weaponizing cruelty as political theater. And while everyone is busy splitting hairs over whether or not the President's cankols terminal ICE is raiding neighborhoods and rounding up families. So today we're asking if this is how we treat the people holding our country together, or any people at all for that matter, how is this better? This episode isn't about what might happen, it's about what is already happening. Mass deportations, family separations, the rollback of birthright citizenship, and all of it backed by a strategy called Project 2025, which is exactly what it sounds like. A blueprint for dismantling democracy and targeting marginalized communities under the guise of law and order. The policies and strategies to achieve them laid out in it are so sinister that Donald Trump had to lie to the American people on numerous occasions insisting that that it was not his plan.

[Unknown Political Figure]

As you know, and as she knows better than anyone, I have nothing to do with Project 2025 that's out there. I haven't read it. I don't want to read it purposely. I'm not going to read it.

[Unknown Activist]

But it was and is the only plan he's implementing currently. According to analysis from Hearst Television Data team, nearly 45% of the non tariff related executive actions from Trump so far align directly with the plans in Project 2025.

[Justino Mora]

The Trump administration was very clear about their intentions from day one. In fact, like I would say from 2016, they were very clear under the first administration. They were just not effective at implementing their agenda back in 2016 through 2020.

[Unknown Activist]

This is Justino Mora. He's an immigrants rights activist, software engineer, and a fellow USC MacArthur Foundation Civic Media fellow. I wanted to talk to him because he's been in this fight now for more than a decade.

[Justino Mora]

I do have to say that personally, I think it took me a little bit by surprise how quickly they moved to this phase. I did think it was going to take them maybe about a year or so, or maybe about a year to two years to attack specifically US Citizenship. As far as the raids, as far as the attacks on undocumented individuals, I thought most likely they're going to have to deliver within the first 100 days, mostly because that's typically what every administration tries to do. Personally, it's tough because I have, you know, friends, family members who are undocumented, who have. Don't have a legal status, may have tps, daca, or legal permanent residence. And then also, I guess as a community organizer, someone that has been trying to, you know, raise the alarm for quite a while that this was a serious threat. It's tough because we were now saying, we told you so. There's so much we can do through social media, there's so much we can do through our own community efforts. But it feels reactive that we're just responding to the attacks and not strategizing any way that we can get ahead of whatever next attack might be coming, because they're adapting to whatever strategies we're implementing on a day to day basis.

[Unknown Commentator]

What are the sort of main differences that you've noticed besides the speed with which they're implementing their plans?

[Justino Mora]

I think it's the effectiveness that they're having and also this multiangle approach. They're using the most vulnerable populations in the United States as a testing ground to essentially try to destroy whatever democratic principles and constitutional rights that we have and attacking only black and brown immigrants. They know that perhaps the white population of the United States might not raise up and might not fight back as hard as they would if this was being done to white Americans. Of course, you know, there's a lot of incredible white allies that are fighting out on the streets that are getting involved, but I feel like from our point of view is they were going to attack black and brown communities first and foremost. They've had this plan for quite a while and they're now executing step by step and they're going after those constitutionally protected rights because they know that if they can get away with not obeying and specifically respecting those constitutional rights of American born citizens who are black, Latino, etc. They'll be able to build the legal framework and the narrative to go after anyone, it doesn't matter who it is, after anyone who dares to confront them and fight back.

[Unknown Activist]

When we come back, we dive into Alligator, Alcatraz, racial profiling and the plan to de Brown America.

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[Unknown Activist]

May apply this time. The machinery is built, the levers are mapped, and the targets immigrants, black and brown citizens, and anyone who resists are already on the board. And with the border czar Tom Holman claiming essentially that racial profiling is a fine way to decide who is and isn't in the U.S. legally, people need.

[Unknown Political Figure]

To understand ICE officers and border Patrol. They don't need probable calls to walk up somebody, briefly detain them and question them. They just got through their observation and you know, get our typical facts based on their location, the occupation, their physical.

[Unknown Activist]

Appearance, and the court's suggestion that they don't do that actually being impossible to implement, things are looking pretty bleak.

[Unknown Commentator]

It comes down to aesthetics actually. Right? It's like we gotta de brown the country and so however we can do that, that seems to be their plan. Yeah, but then there's also that sort of sticky point of like if he's just deciding who is and isn't a citizen, which is what he's doing now anyway. Right? Like, that's, that's what we're doing is sort of like testing ground, different communities being like, hey, do you guys care? Do you guys care if we just, you know, yank people off the street? I hate to, like, be gloom and doom, but, like, history has shown us where this goes. And so as someone who I think really likes this country and wants it to be better, like, what, what do you see happening in the future here?

[Justino Mora]

I came to the US when I was 11 years old and I found a lot of opportunities here that I wasn't able to find back home. So for, for me to see these current developments taking place, there's this side of me that thinks, you know, I, I want to stay here and fight back. But then there's also the other side of me that tells me, do I really need to be here? This country is always, always promises the American dream and, you know, sold me this idea since I came to the US that if I did my best, that if I succeeded in school, that if I gave back to my community, doors would be open to me. And at least from my personal experience and that of other people, undocumented people, that I know that promise never fully materialized. And if it did, for some individuals, it came at a huge cost. So when I think about the future of this country, where things are heading, I always consider the worst possible scenario. And it might be my, I guess, you know, studying engineering, mathematics, and we're always.

[Unknown Commentator]

You're gaming it out.

[Justino Mora]

Yeah, so, yeah, exactly. I would say 80% of the worst case scenarios that I've thought about in the last 10 years have occurred. It's going to take people to, you know, just, I would say, wake up and just get involved. We do have the numbers. If we really wanted to, we could really shut down the economy. Like, we can implement huge labor strikes. We could come out in huge numbers, protest and fight back that way. I don't feel confident that we have the organizational structure, like membership for, you know, labor unions has been decreasing over the years. That's one, I guess, perfect example. That's one thing that also worries me, that now there's, of course, younger people that want to get involved, but also there's less structures for them to get involved in.

[Unknown Activist]

And communities are being tested right now across the country. ICE raids are happening at immigration hearings, at schools, farms, home hotels, restaurants. Basically every public space has become a place to be targeted if law enforcement decides you look like you don't belong and people are being sent to Countries all over the world, whether they're from there or not. What's worse is Florida, under the cruel direction of failed presidential candidate and current governor Ron DeSantis, has a state sanctioned concentration camp that is making headlines and selling merch. Even as ethical, moral and civil safety questions persist.

[Justino Mora]

We saw important conditions, a lot of crowding, 32 male individuals per cage. These people are being caged. Three toilets per area, and the drinking water, it comes from the toilet apparatus in the cell.

[Unknown Commentator]

So I want to talk about this Alligator Alcatraz thing for a moment, because to me, it is just the epitome of what is wrong with this administration, with the people who support it. They're selling merch. People want to take photos. This is a concentration camp that was thrown together shoddily, that is already flooded. People who have been able to see it in our, our government who, you know, don't support Trump, have been very honest in saying, like, this is not humane. You know, there's a sign outside of the facility that calls it Alligator Alcatraz. Like it's an official naming convention.

[Justino Mora]

Yeah.

[Unknown Commentator]

Have you noticed that Americans have become more cruel in the past decade? Does this seem like something that could have been possible in 2016? I guess, like before the election, had he said, I want to make a place where I send all of the immigrants and then we can deport them to whatever country we want and we would have a large concentration of them that. That would have been supported. Or have we just lost our, like, empathy as a society?

[Justino Mora]

I think we have lost our empathy as a society for many decades now, because at least when we analyze US Foreign policy, this is something that the US Government has done across the world. Perhaps we're losing empathy towards domestic individuals, domestic citizens, domestic people living in the United States. Alligator Alcatraz, definitely concentration camp.

[Unknown Commentator]

Yeah.

[Justino Mora]

And that's the way that I've seen, I guess, quote, unquote, these immigration centers. I've seen them as concentrations for a long time, mostly because I've met and talked to people who have been sexually abused in those places, both children and parents, people who have been tortured. Like at the Adelanto Detention center here in Southern California is a perfect example. I met undocumented immigrants who many, many years ago, they launched a hunger strike and many of them were tortured in there by the immigration officials. And I feel like the focus now, it's happening now because there's a Republican in office, when there's a Democrat in office, there's less emphasis. Emphasis. And let's focus on the human rights Violations happening in detention centers, and I would say in any prison in the United States. I guess I could make the argument that Alligator Alcatraz is sort of like a blueprint of what El Salvador did with the secots in, of course, in their country. And now they're trying to replicate something similar in Florida and perhaps in other parts of the country. So that worries me because of the fact that if I'm not mistaken, Alligator Alcatraz is like a state run concentration camp. And most of them are actually federally run. And Alligator Alcatraz isn't. It's like a state funded, led, constructed, maintained facility. And that raises the question, what can they get away with?

[Unknown Commentator]

Right, like who's overseeing anything there.

[Justino Mora]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Unknown Activist]

Historically, barring one recent high profile case, federal custody at least came with a paper trail. Bad, but traceable. With state sanctioned facilities, you create an environment where people can be disappeared without record. And we saw this play out recently. In July 2025, the Miami Herald obtained and published the records of some 700 inmates at Alligator Alcatraz. Many families of those interned had no clue that's where their loved ones ended up. And it has to be reiterated, the crime most of these individuals are being accused of is a civil infraction. Being in the US without citizenship is less serious than, say, running a stop sign, driving under the influence, and domestic assault, crimes that US citizens are more than two times as likely to be convicted of. And that's according to the state of Texas, the only state that tracks immigration status by crime type. When we come back, we have to talk about white supremacy. Because for those with the eyes to see, the end game is incredibly apparent.

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[Unknown Commentator]

You think Stephen Miller is a white nationalist?

[Unknown Activist]

A white supremacist, I would say, because I believe his ideology is one of domination and control over people of color.

[Unknown Advertiser]

Who lives in your country determines what your country is. If you move the third world to the first world, eventually we become the third world.

[Unknown Activist]

That guy who sort of looks like the creepy scientist who trapped Sally in Nightmare Before Christmas is Stephen Miller. A political advisor to Donald Trump. Breitbart, the rightist of the right wing media, called out his emails as being blatantly white supremacist. He said horrible things about basically everyone with a hint of melanin. And his small vision for this country is winning right now. The Supreme Court this year has paved the way to revoke Birthright citizenship, the 14th Amendment to the Constitution that was put in place to recognize the citizenship of freed, enslaved Africans. That means essentially that the government can decide who is and isn't a citizen at a moment's notice. I mean, just a couple of weeks ago, President Trump threatened Rosie o' Donnell's citizenship because he doesn't like her. My, how far we have fallen.

[Unknown Commentator]

So what do you think his end game is? Is it just to make like a smaller, whiter nation that ultimately has less power in the world, to create such a divide that there's, like, you know, so few people who have things and so many people who have nothing, and it's just like everyone who has stuff is white. Like, what, what do you think their. Their plan is or what the actual end game is?

[Justino Mora]

I think it's to advance white supremacy and acquire more power. So maybe a few other things. But I do think as a whole, just based on the people they have in their administration, the public statements that they have made, also the attacks on black and brown immigrant communities. I don't see rates happening in, you know, European undocumented communities.

[Unknown Commentator]

Yeah, Russian. Yeah, there's plenty of Russian people who undocumented. There are plenty of people of every race who are here undocumented, and you don't see that in white neighborhoods.

[Justino Mora]

So I think it's one pushing the white supremacist agenda and then also acquiring more power and whatever means they think it's necessary, either financial, you know, monetary, personal gain, military power. I feel like it's a combination of those things Relative to the first Trump administration. This time around, I do feel more concerned about my activism and how I advocate publicly. So that I do have to admit, and I feel like it's true, you know, for a lot of immigrant rights organizers. And I am concerned about the ramifications of being public online, but I guess I'm already public.

[Unknown Commentator]

Yeah, that's a good point. They could just look at the history.

[Justino Mora]

That you posted so that, that's one piece. The question is, if I were to do some sort of community organizing or build tools that were to become very effective at preventing ice rates, etc. Etc. You know, it would probably move me from the bottom of the target list, probably higher.

[Unknown Commentator]

Yeah.

[Justino Mora]

So that's the kind of stuff that it's in my mind. And also just thinking about the new build that has passed, I call it the big Ugly bill.

[Unknown Commentator]

It is, it's really ugly. It's horrible.

[Justino Mora]

Yeah. And the funding, historical funding that is going to go towards dhs, ICBP to implement their horrendous agenda and just thinking about the worst possible things that they can do without money, they're going to deploy not only against immigrants, they're going to deploy it against everyone.

[Unknown Commentator]

Everybody?

[Justino Mora]

Yeah, everybody. Like everybody who decides to speak up. It's going to become a target. Doesn't matter where they are, it doesn't matter what community they are. If they do decide to speak up, I feel my fear is they're going to deploy it against them.

[Unknown Activist]

Okay, gang, take a knee. Things aren't looking so good for the old US of A. Right now. But I'm curious if there's anything that we can look to for hope right now.

[Justino Mora]

One thing that is kind of like escaping also like the national media, national attention is this natural growth and birth of community defense groups around the country. People are coming together to form these community organizations and entities and to, to protect their own communities. They're going out and patrolling their own community. If they see ice, any ICE activity, they're publishing that information on their social media platforms. And that is super important. We're also seeing people in their own way, fighting back against fascism, trying to prevent these kidnappings. And I feel the media is not doing a good job at capturing and covering those community led efforts.

[Unknown Commentator]

Right.

[Justino Mora]

I'm wondering why, like, is it because it might show that if we do come together, that if we do form these groups outside the establishment, that we have more power than we imagine. We can build connections and bridges with other social issues. What's happening to immigrants is not only an immigration issue, but it's also a health care issue. It's also a, you know, income inequality issue. It's also a reproductive issue. You know, there's many undocumented women who are not able to access healthcare in many of these states because of their immigration status that they feel that they might get targeted. I feel like that's one thing that at least at the federal level, at the national level, the media is not doing a good job at covering it. Like, they're putting a lot of emphasis on, you know, the first reaction of people in L. A when these ICE raids started in early June. And they're not focusing on the other things, the other incredible things that are happening. Like people are also going out and trying to help their community members. If they need groceries, they're giving their neighbors, you know, rights to doctor's appointments or even to school. Like there is hope in fighting back if we come together, if we support and love each other and fight for each other's rights.

[Unknown Activist]

You already know what I'm going to say, right? How is this better? It's not. Immigration is a difficult conversation globally at this point. And Justino is right. This isn't just a problem. During Republican administrations, the plans suggested historically haven't been adequate in addressing any side of the issue fair. But mass deportations with zero consideration for humanity, for kindness, for contribution, for families, is horrendous. There isn't a word bad enough for consciously creating concentration camps outside the bounds of the justice system. No charges brought in the year 2025. This is a dark moment in this country, reminiscent of Japanese internment, American slavery, Jim Crow and more. And so it's kind of our moment to step in, step up and elevate when we see pushback. I want more for this country, and I think you should, too. Thank you for listening to or watching. How is this better? Have you been enjoying the show? Great. Please leave A rating, preferably five stars, and review to let us know what you think. We'd love to hear from you and it's gonna help introduce our new show to more people, finally. Follow, subscribe, whatever they're calling it on your platform of choice or frankly, all the platforms, Apple, Spotify, Courier's, YouTube. That way you won't miss any new episodes. Thanks and we'll catch you next time. How Is this Better? Is written and hosted by me, Akilah Hughes. It's produced by Devin Maroney and edited by Shane Burkest. Courier's national managing director and executive producer is Kevin Dreyfus. RC Demezzo is their VP of Brand and Social, and Charlotte Robertson is the deputy director of Brand and Social. Tracy Kaplan is senior vice president of sales and distribution, and Marianne Kuga is director of marketing show artwork by Danielle Del Plato and original theme music is by Used people.

[Justino Mora]

Sam.