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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to Only Child. With me, your host, Bob the drag queen. A multi award winning comedian, drag icon, trader, New York Times bestselling author, and incredibly humble person. This is my first solo podcast that I'm doing without my annoying little sister. Every week I sit down with friends, future friends and people I just met. Comedians, drag queens, reality TV stars, Broadway actors, and many, many more people. Every episode ends with a very important Bob coded question. What's the hell you're willing to die on? Today we're going to get real, but I prom will also make you laugh.
- [00:33]
B
So let's get into it. This weekend, the White House is hosting a UFC event. A night of mixed martial arts fighting, not just in our nation's capital, but on the White House lawn. And honestly, if you've been paying attention for the last decade, maybe that sentence doesn't even register as strange. But it probably should because this feels more like a culmination than just a sport supporting event. It's a culmination of something we've been calling the wrestlingification of American politics. A culmination of Donald Trump turning the presidency into a contest of masculine display. A reality show circus. I'm Akilah Hughes, and on today's episode of How Is this Better? I wanted to talk to two people who actually secured tickets to this circus about why they're going and the conversations they're hoping to have. Just wondering if you have any plans this weekend.
- [01:27]
A
Same thing I do every weekend, which is go watch UFC on the White House lawn.
- [01:33]
B
For any particular reason?
- [01:35]
A
Grant got tickets. Grant was like, you want to go with me to see UFC on the White House lawn? I was like, never wanted to see anything more than that in my entire life.
- [01:43]
C
You know, I just think in relationships it's really easy to get complacent. And I was thinking, what can I do for Ryan that would really make him excited and feel, like, alive again and around people who are similar to. And I thought, let's go to D.C. in June and hang out with a bunch of mega UFC guys.
- [02:01]
A
Yeah, June is a really good time to go to D.C. to be outside, assumedly under no shade at all.
- [02:08]
C
I can't wait.
- [02:10]
B
That's Ryan Broderick and Grant Irving. They are the hosts and producers of Panic World, a podcast from Courier about how the Internet warps our minds, culture, and eventually reality as warped reality experts who will be on the ground. I thought they'd be the perfect people to talk to for this. Well, I'm curious if either of you are UFC fans and like, what you understand, is going to be happening at the White House on the lawn this weekend. I personally have no idea what UFC is. I think it's like guys bloodying each other.
- [02:40]
A
Grant, you're on the Juice. What's UFC like?
- [02:42]
C
Yeah, I used to do MMA around 2020. I, like, couldn't watch UFC anymore. I watched it all the time up until then. It was, like, a big part of, like, my, like, hangouts with my dad and, like, friends. Like, I was pretty into it. And then during COVID I think they moved to Abu Dhabi, I think.
- [03:04]
A
Yes.
- [03:05]
C
And I was illegally streaming a UFC event, and people were talking about how much they loved Hitler in the comments. And, like, multiple people were. And I thought, you know what? I think I think I'm done. I think. I think this is it for me.
- [03:19]
B
So was there anything. I mean, what was it like, I guess, before it became, you know, springtime for Hitler in the comments?
- [03:26]
A
Did you feel embraced by the UFC community up until the Hitler stuff?
- [03:29]
B
Who even is the UFC community besides? I guess springtime for Hitler? People who feel emboldened to, you know, do race science in comment sections.
- [03:38]
A
Well, Grant, tell me if I'm wrong here. My understanding is that UFC's sort of insurgent popularity, and our show Panic World has done an episode kind of about Dana White and the UFC kind of master plan, really. But my understanding is that UFC attracted a really young crowd really quickly because not just that it was savage, but that it was, like, a lot more exciting to watch and also easier to watch than what, wrestling or boxing?
- [04:04]
C
Yeah, the original idea from it was like, yo, you ever see that movie Bloodsport? Where people of different martial art backgrounds do kumite?
- [04:13]
A
Yeah.
- [04:13]
C
And people are like, what if we made that? And, like, early ufc, like, you would have boxers go in with only one glove so that they could defend. Like, and there was no weight classes. Like, it was like, what is the best martial art? It then got more streamlined, but, like, it ended up creating basically a hybrid martial arts style that is, like, considered the best to be able to fight any kind of fighter. I was growing up doing martial arts, like, as it was really rising in popularity, and, like, there was regular debates of, like, oh, like, yeah, if you know how to box, but you don't know how to defend a takedown, like, you're fucked. And then, like, oh, if you don't know how to submit people. And, like, that has created a whole atmosphere. But, like, I mean, still to this day, like, you talk about, like, fighting strategies with people, and, like, there's more to it than this.
- [05:02]
A
Akilah, you're often debating fighting strategies with your friends.
- [05:06]
B
Yeah, it definitely comes up in my life. Ever. And I mean, here's the thing. I'm just, like, curious, what does this have to do with politics? Why is this happening on the White House lawn? Like, where is the crossover?
- [05:16]
A
I can. I can start us off here. So, as I said, we did a big episode about Dana White and his friendship with Donald Trump. They've been friends for a long time, largely because they're both guys who orbit casinos. That's sort of how they've been kicked
- [05:29]
B
out of them for harassing the clientele.
- [05:31]
A
Dana White has a. Has been a longtime friend of Donald Trump and was kind of the mastermind. Him and Barron Trump were the mastermind behind the entire idea of the 2024 manosphere stuff. So UFC CEO or president or whatever. Human thumb. Dana White, he was the one who figured out, like, oh, the Internet is a place where we can find new audiences and young people to watch ufc. And he's been very active on different podcasts, and then he sort of got Trump to go on those podcasts. So this is kind of like a Trump paying him back for the 2024 election.
- [06:11]
B
I see. And are you going to try to get him on your podcast when you go Dana White?
- [06:16]
A
I would love to have him on our podcast. I would have any. I would have any. I mean, Steve Bannon has been a long time want for me, so, yeah, I would happily talk Dana White for an hour. Sure. I bet he's totally nuts.
- [06:25]
C
I mean, I've been dying to ask him if he thinks Jon Jones is the best fighter of all time, you know, for years. And I'm sure, Ryan, you have a similar line of questions that you would love to ask him.
- [06:35]
A
My question is, why not give the UFC fighters a gun?
- [06:40]
B
Yeah, that is actually the old ultimate Fighting, right?
- [06:43]
A
No, if you're gonna go, go all the way. You know, give them a sword at the very least. Okay, maybe no guns, but what about swords or knives or just, like, a
- [06:51]
B
high thing to push people off of?
- [06:52]
A
You know, like a cliff of some kind. A stick. You're hitting them with a stick. I don't know the stakes.
- [06:57]
B
Up the stakes.
- [06:58]
A
Exactly. A car. Let them drive a car.
- [07:02]
B
It's Battle Royale and Fortnite.
- [07:04]
A
Exactly.
- [07:04]
B
Battle book.
- [07:05]
A
Exactly. Just do Fortnite at this point.
- [07:08]
C
There was a time where, like, of course it was conservative quoting, because it's fighting, and it happened in Las Vegas, but it was not always like, don't.
- [07:18]
A
Don't grant this. Don't do this. I don't die on this hill.
- [07:21]
C
I'm not.
- [07:22]
A
UFC wasn't conservative. What are you talking about?
- [07:24]
C
No, but it was. It was not, like, a active, politically used apparatus in the way, like, from its formation.
- [07:31]
A
Oh, okay. I agree with you.
- [07:32]
C
You used to be able to, like, enjoy the sport without it being, like, true. And also, like, the reason we have Joe Rogan as the figure that he is is because he became the UFC host and, like, these two things, like, grew together.
- [07:48]
A
Yes.
- [07:48]
C
Like, this was not always the thing.
- [07:50]
A
Yeah, the Joe Rogan thing is important to bring up. Yeah, that's true.
- [07:53]
B
And there's also just. I think the element of, like, it's so male focused, and I think that politics has decided that men can only be one way, and so in that way is ufc. It's like, you know, I feel like they would categorize anybody left of UFC as a pussy. So it's like, what is. You know, I guess you all going there. I. You know, I believe you all are pretty far left, but maybe when you come. Come back, you'll feel differently, I guess. You know, what do you expect the vibe to be? Do you expect to get punched in the face? Do you think it'll be welcoming? What are the guys like? Have you ever been to a UFC fight?
- [08:26]
A
I've never been to a UFC fight or anything like it. I think it's going to be, like, kind of boring, actually. I think the amount of security, I don't think it's like, Insurrection two. I think it's to be a weird group of people. Maybe QAnon types out in the parking lot of the White House or. I don't know. Well, I don't even think they'll be tailgating, really. Like, I. It feels, like, kind of hard to have, like, a crazy, chaotic event with, like, Secret Service everywhere.
- [08:49]
C
If I get punched in the face, it's because I made a friend. It's because, like. Like.
- [08:53]
A
Like, that's how you show affection, is what you're saying.
- [08:56]
C
Honestly, that's like. That's. Most of my friendships are now, like, we'd be like, oh, who wants to grapple? And, you know, like.
- [09:02]
A
Are you saying who wants to grapple to your friends regularly?
- [09:05]
C
Yeah. Yes. That's. That's what I do in my free time.
- [09:08]
A
You've never asked me to grab.
- [09:12]
B
Do you guys want to grapple? Am I asking it even. Right.
- [09:16]
C
I'm really curious to see whether or not the audience gives a shit about Trump or if they're just there because they're, like, cool. There's a free UFC bowl that is, like, close to me. Dope.
- [09:28]
B
Yeah.
- [09:28]
C
I could see it going either way, but I. But I think people are probably going to be there to, like, watch UFC in public.
- [09:34]
A
I also just. I think any chance to see this world in real life is important. Like, they. The. The Trump world as an entity spends so much time online making them look and feel a certain way. And, you know, you can pop that bubble really easily by just, like, engaging with it in real life and seeing it. And so, like, I'm just. I'm curious. I'm just. I'm. I'm excited and I'm curious.
- [09:57]
B
Yeah. And I mean, I think that, like, a lot of people have been vetted by this administration. They definitely have their own lists of people. Do you think that you've been vetted?
- [10:06]
A
No, because we did the. We did the raffle, right? We were not on, like, a list.
- [10:11]
C
We did a raffle, but I had to give. I had to give my, like, name and email to obviously receive it. And I was thinking, how much did they go through Palantir's, like, files from when we were at Minneapolis? Because, like, I'm sure that, like, I don't. I don't know how well they cross reference that data, but I assume they did. But who knows?
- [10:32]
A
I would be shocked if they were that competent, actually.
- [10:34]
C
That's. That was kind of my thought. Yeah.
- [10:36]
B
Historically, Donald Trump has not been able to put on great events, as we know. He didn't have, like, a huge audience at his inaugurations either time. He's had, like, parades that were pretty whack. Do you think that, like, this will be a thing that people, like, truly do turn out for and, like, care about? Like, and I just. Do you think it has anything to do with him, or is it really going to be up to ufc what that looks like?
- [11:03]
A
I'm of two minds of this, as you know, Akilah, I like history a lot. I am constantly fascinated by, like, what presidents do with the presidency. It's. This is kind of as far as the weird things that he's done. This is sort of, like, in theory, one of the, like, least bad. It's just like, a really eccentric, weird thing to do. And, like, what was it? Andrew Jackson was just, like, shooting people on the front lawn of the White House for a while. Like, presidents are weird, right? And, like, they do weird things. So, like, I kind of. I'm a little excited to be, like, a part of history. Like, okay, like, it's a. You. It's a UFC match in the lawn of the White House. Like, that's a really weird thing.
- [11:43]
B
It is insane.
- [11:44]
A
As a history buff, I'm kind of excited. I don't think it's going to be good. I don't think it's going to be. I think it's going to be, like, annoying and like, difficult to navigate and like, you know, whatever. But I think it's, it's weird. It's interesting.
- [11:54]
C
Joe Rogan is mad that they're doing this.
- [11:56]
B
Wow.
- [11:57]
A
Why is he mad?
- [11:58]
B
Because he wasn't invited.
- [11:59]
C
Because the art of ultimate fighting is an air conditioned event. Like, you're going to have fighters getting flies and in their mouth. Like, that's distracting. Like, like it's, it is an insult to the sport. You two obviously.
- [12:13]
A
Are you being, are you being serious?
- [12:14]
C
No, no, no. He's, he's seriously pissed about. He's like, this is an indoor sport. Like, like, this is going to fuck up. Like, fighters are going to have like, their, their, their records affected.
- [12:25]
A
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Of all of the possible reasons why Joe Rogan would be mad about this, that is so outra that he is ruining the sanctity of the indoor sport of ufc. Come on, what are we doing here, bro?
- [12:39]
C
Have you ever tried to fight in, in adverse conditions?
- [12:43]
A
It sucks. Yeah, every day of my life, Grant,
- [12:46]
C
when I have to do rounds above 80 degrees. Sucks.
- [12:49]
B
I mean, here's the thing. With that in mind, do you think it's going to just be like, I don't know if they just have like a full list of fights and it's like a thing that's going to go on all day. But do you expect these rounds to be, like, long? I mean, it seems like, yeah, you kick someone and it's hot outside. That's the game.
- [13:05]
C
Thank you. Now we're on my turf. I do think that how these fighters are preparing for the conditioning of outdoor DC Swampland. No, that's fucking, it's, it's fucking stupid. You could argue it's similar to dealing with like, fighting at altitude, but I would not say that.
- [13:21]
A
Do they fight at altitude? Are there indoor UFC arenas in, like, Colorado?
- [13:25]
C
Yeah, yeah, sure. And like, and also fighters will go and like, go and train somewhere at altitude so that when they then are like in somewhere else. But that's different than dealing with humidity, you know, and especially with the weight cutting. I'm so sorry. I'm actually making this a sports podcast and that is.
- [13:40]
B
No, listen. The people who are listening, I think, will probably not tune into ufc. And so as much as you can, add color to what they're missing so that they can at least competently talk about it when all of the reporting comes out, I think that's good.
- [13:55]
C
I think we all know that this is going to be tried to be used as a show of strength for Trump. I am very curious, being on the ground, being in the crowd, to be able to say whether or not this was a UFC event that has been co opted to seem like a Trump win or if it actually feels like a Trump win. And maybe those two things are indistinguishable, but I don't actually know the answer to that. I don't know how much these two things actually do cross over into, like, real people versus, like, yeah, sure, I guess I'll vote like. And I'm very curious to see how much people actually give a shit.
- [14:29]
A
I would like to see other sporting events or concerts on the White House lawn. Actually. It's public property, right. It's our house. Zach Brown is playing the night before at the weigh in. Like, that's kind of neat. Like, I don't know, Like, I just
- [14:43]
B
think I need a camera and a second camera to look through.
- [14:46]
A
There's just something.
- [14:49]
B
I personally don't find any, but I'm with you.
- [14:51]
A
I find Trump, you know, obviously despicable and disgusting and all the other things, but I, I, I find it interesting when, like, the White House is used for, in other contexts, you know, like, I don't know, there's something about, there's something charming to me about this.
- [15:03]
C
Ryan's just a fan of culture, you know?
- [15:05]
A
Yeah, I'm a fan of culture. Like Zach Brown and ufc. That's right, Grant. Culture.
- [15:10]
B
Goodness.
- [15:11]
C
Do you think we're gonna get a secret appearance, a special guest appearance by Kid Rock? I feel like it is the most. I want to place that couch.
- [15:17]
A
100.
- [15:18]
C
Yeah.
- [15:18]
B
I just feel like they must be mad at each other or something because, you know, Kid Rock made the Trump administration look bad with that, like, helicopter Flyby. He wasn't inv. The 250. And now that Trump's only having Lee Green would be there, you think that he would maybe make the call and be like, kid, you're up. But I think that after the flop, super bowl, they're just not very close. Well, here's the thing. So it wasn't that long ago that there was a, you know, alleged shooter apprehended at the White House, correspondence center. Are you all thinking about that at all? Do you think that will affect the vibe? Are you expecting like a sort of dystopian situation from a security standpoint?
- [15:56]
A
I mean, Warped Tour is on the other side of the city all weekend, so it's going to be a really strange mix of people there, I don't think. I'm not really worried from like a security standpoint. If anything, I think it's just going to be like obnoxiously difficult to get in to stuff. We're recording this on Monday. Trump is in Manhattan and has shut down a massive chunk of midtown Manhattan. Like, I think they're very aware that people are going to. People have plans for him.
- [16:25]
C
So what kind of plans, Ryan?
- [16:27]
A
That's all I'm comfortable saying is that people have plans for him and so, you know, they don't want that to happen.
- [16:34]
B
Yeah. And so you feel safer being there maybe than at home watching what's, what's
- [16:40]
A
safer than being where it just had a lightning strike, you know?
- [16:43]
B
Yeah, exactly. Even though lightning does seem to strike a lot.
- [16:47]
C
I don't like how, I don't like how you're talking about this. I don't, I don't like.
- [16:52]
A
The tenor doesn't strike twice, you know, in the same place.
- [16:56]
B
It strikes four times. It seems four or five at this juncture. When we come back, I talk to Ryan and Grant about who they're hoping to talk to and what they're hoping to ask. Stay tuned. When people hear that Mint Mobile plans are only $15 per month, a lot of people wonder, what's the catch? Well, I can tell you from first hand experience, there isn't one. There are no gimmicks and no gotchas. Just unlimited talk, text and data, fast, reliable coverage on the nation's largest 5G network, and an award winning care team. I guess that makes Mint Mobile a catch. Since switching to Mint, I've realized that I've been wasting hundreds of dollars a month for years. I wish that this existed sooner because wow, my finances, y'. All. Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless and made it right with Premium Wireless. For 15 bucks a month, you can even bring your current phone and your number. Choose from 3, 6 or 12 month plans and say goodbye to a monthly bill. Ditch overpriced wireless. With Mint Mobile, it's so easy. Sign up online and get three months of premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month. It's cheaper than a sandwich. All to get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to mintmobile.com courier. That's mintmobile.com/coulter. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com courier. That'S IT. There's no catch. That's the whole game. I want to talk a little bit more about what you're hoping to report on. You know, we could potentially brainstorm some things, but, like, who are you hoping to talk to? What are you hoping to ask or find out?
- [18:33]
A
I am always. I mean, this is probably just like the sicko part of me who's been reporter for too long, but I am always just fascinated to talk to Trump people. And every time I've done it, it's never the same kind of person or the same kind of stuff. Like I said QAnon earlier. But, like, that's not really right. Like, those people haven't really existed properly in a long time.
- [18:54]
B
Well, you mean, like, those people just don't believe in that anymore? Don't talk about it because, like, they're not dead people. They just decided to follow what, RFK Jr. Now there's always, like, a new conspiracy to hop on?
- [19:05]
A
No, no. I mean, they all died of COVID
- [19:06]
C
They drank too much raw milk, and now they're dead.
- [19:09]
A
Yeah, they all died of COVID in 2021. But, no, I always fascinated to talk to actually, like, talk to people in real life as who are part of the movement because their beliefs are always evolving. And so it is sort of this moving train that you never really got in the same way.
- [19:26]
B
It's almost like if your beliefs are always evolving, they're not beliefs, but continue.
- [19:30]
A
I wouldn't disagree with you, but as someone whose job it is to sort of understand what I'm seeing online and not only just understand it, but, like, kind of measure its impact. And, you know, I'm constantly having conversations with my team about, like, is this important? Is this important? And a really easy way to do that is just to go into real life and see what's actually passing through the blood brain barrier into, like, these people's lives. So, like, that's what I'm kind of curious about.
- [19:54]
C
Yeah, especially in this moment where, like, right, the polls are really bad for Trump. This should be Trump's base. But these are not. This is not a Trump rally. And so I think it's a really interesting moment to talk to people and see, like, they're probably more Joe Rogan, like, Full Tilt fans than they are Trump people. Are they disillusioned? Are they. Are they sick of it? Do they Is it even on their radar? I'm like. Like, it's so hard to know anyone's media diet at this point. I'm curious to see, like, what any of those things are actually, like, in 2026.
- [20:30]
B
Yeah.
- [20:31]
A
When we were in Minneapolis, we had, like, a similar thing where we were just really curious. We were. We were there for the ice occupation in January, and we were just super curious, like, how the average person was sort of digesting this stuff. And. And I think right now in America, in the lead up to the midterms, and then eventually 2028, like, that is the only question is, like, how is the average person understanding what's happening around them? Because it's so complicated and so bizarre. And so I'm kind of excited to, like, take the pulse of the country at Trump's stupid UFC event.
- [21:00]
B
But that's the thing. Do you think that the average person watches UFC or even would travel to a UFC event?
- [21:08]
A
I don't know.
- [21:08]
C
Yeah, like, it's a huge sport. It's one of the biggest sports in the world, numbers wise. It's one of the only few sports that's growing in the U.S. i think that is a voting block and a contingency. I don't think of it as much different than going to, like, a tailgate for a football game and, like, asking people how they're feeling. And I. I'm also curious about that. Like, how far are they traveling? Like, are they. I don't think that the UFC goes to D.C. a lot. Like, maybe it's not. It's going to be people from Bethesda who are just, like, cool. Like. Like, also, like, for where we are, where most people are watching, it's free. So, like, to get a watch, like, yeah, you guys gonna go to a bar tonight to watch the Knicks? Because it's something to do. Because, like, that's, like, fun. Like, I'm. I'm curious to see, like, if there's people who are traveling from, you know, South Carolina because they, like, want to get trumped up with UFC on the White House. That's interesting. But also if it's like, a bunch of people from Baltimore. Yeah, it's not hard to get there.
- [22:08]
A
I was curious, like, to see how much UFC made last year compared to other sports. And UFC made 1.5 billion in 2025. The NBA made 12, and the NFL made 23 billion. So, like, it's not far off from, like, a fairly. I don't watch it. I. I don't like watching it. But, like, I Know a lot. Like, I know it's a thing. So, like, I wouldn't be surprised if, like, a bunch of families in the metro D.C. area were like, I'll go to UFC for free on the White House lawn. Like, that sounds like a weird Sunday night event to do.
- [22:39]
B
Totally. I'm curious if you've noticed any reporting or discourse about it and if you think that there is something missing from that conversation that, you know people. I think right now, for most people, there's just the knowledge that it's happening and the spectacle of it. Like, Donald Trump wants to leave his weird cage up like it's the Eiffel Tower. Which is funny to compare it to the Eiffel Tower, because they did not like that thing when they put up the Eiffel Tower either. Maybe this ugly thing will grow on the rest of the country and they'll update the money to put that weird contraption in front of the White House. But what are people not talking about or what? What? I get. What are, I guess, legacy media outlets missing when it comes to sort of like, what's going to be happening this weekend?
- [23:24]
A
Wait, are you saying he wants to leave the cage up?
- [23:27]
B
Oh, yeah. He said it was beautiful, that it was his Eiffel Tower and that he, like, it could become a permanent fixture.
- [23:33]
A
Dude, that rocks. He should do it, honestly.
- [23:35]
C
Yeah, that's kind of cool.
- [23:36]
A
We should have, like, a giant metal cage. That's so sick.
- [23:38]
C
There's a bunch of bars now where you can like, go and, like, sumo fight at them. Like, what if they just leave the cage up and you can just sign a release and it just becomes like a family event that you can just like, do three minutes at the White House UFC cage. I would fucking do that.
- [23:51]
A
Like a PvP zone where you can like, enter in there and just fight other people on the way, I think. Yeah, that's cool.
- [23:58]
C
That's so cool. So dumb. I don't know. I don't know who I'm voting for in the midterms anymore.
- [24:04]
B
This is actually the pitch for Idiocracy. They were all sitting around and they're like, what if actually that was the country we lived in?
- [24:11]
A
Yeah. I'm so into it. I think in terms of the mainstream media reaction to it, there's this constant conversation, this national conversation between. It's what I was talking about earlier. The pulse of the country. Who gets to take the pulse of the country and who gets to define the pulse of the country? And I. I do think that there is this tendency for the mainstream media to assume that, like, the ugliest, dumbest, most ugly part of American society has to be the default. Because, like, some guy in a diner told a New York Times reporter that six years ago.
- [24:42]
B
Yeah.
- [24:43]
A
And I suspected somewhere in the middle where, like, the average American is, like, probably fairly normal and then, like, some, like, embarrassing stuff, and it's, like, not a big deal for them.
- [24:52]
B
Yeah.
- [24:52]
A
And so, like, that's. That's the attitude I'm going into this with is like, yeah, like, it's as dumb as any other kind of big American activity. Like, the NFL is kind of dumb. Like, everything's kind of dumb. But I don't think it's, like, a massive deal for people. I don't think that's been reflected in this. Like, the mainstream media seems to be taking this super duper seriously. And I don't even get the sense that, like, the White House is taking, like, it's a giant cage. Like, I don't. I don't think they're taking it that seriously. I don't know.
- [25:18]
B
Well, I mean, Donald Trump's taking it seriously, right? He purchased stock in TKO Holdings.
- [25:23]
A
Oh, no. He's gonna.
- [25:26]
B
He's really banking, literally on this going well.
- [25:30]
A
Yeah. Okay. I should say he's gonna commit as many financial crimes as he possibly can. That's just that he. That's. He loves it more than breathing. But I. I do think that, like, I don't know, Grant could probably talk to this, but, like, I think the average UFC fan, like, doesn't see this as, like, a super serious thing.
- [25:48]
C
I, like, had to just get out of that culture. Like, I couldn't keep watching it. So I don't. I don't. I don't know where they are, but I think that people are like, yeah, it's annoying that it's outside is, like, a factor you're taking.
- [25:58]
A
You keep coming back to this.
- [25:59]
B
No, no, it's like, if you're talking about it. Right.
- [26:02]
A
I guess you're right. That is the thing that mainstream media is not covering is that it's gonna be hot. It's, like, gonna be hot.
- [26:08]
B
What if it rains? Are they gonna be. Sorry, what. What is the plan?
- [26:12]
A
Maybe they cover the cage. Can they cover the cage?
- [26:16]
B
Well, weather conditions aside, when we come back, Ryan, Grant and I discuss the weirdly serious implications of a giant octagon being plopped on the White House lawn. Who cares about your poops? Ollie does. That's why Ollie's science backed Gut Health lineup helps support your family's regularity from daily probiotics to fiber gummies your kiddos will love. Find it all on oly.com that's o l l y.com these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Chronic migraine is 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox Onobotulinum toxin a prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they start. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It prevents on average eight to nine headache days a month versus six to seven for placebo.
- [27:16]
C
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- [27:52]
B
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- [27:59]
A
I want to share my screen here. Okay, hold on. Let me zoom in here. You're not telling me that this isn't the sickest shit you've ever seen in your entire life. You're telling me that this isn't dope? Just look at it.
- [28:11]
B
I mean, for one, like, why are the people like the angle of the people. They're on the sides of the White House. This is a poorly rendered idea of where people would even be. But although they're like so much smaller than the building that it seems unrealistic. The fine. If you all were ants and you were overtaking the White House, it would be super sick.
- [28:31]
A
Yeah, I think it's AI it looks like ass.
- [28:33]
B
Show me something that's realistic. Yeah, look at that. Does that look sick to you?
- [28:37]
A
No, this looks significantly.
- [28:39]
C
Wait, blow it up, Ryan.
- [28:40]
A
I. Oh, hold on.
- [28:42]
B
Yeah, we're over here looking at a lawsuit.
- [28:45]
C
I do think that the, the long like a week from now is going to be that like some fighter was asked to take a dive and that people within The White House placed a bet.
- [28:57]
A
Oh, 100.
- [28:58]
C
Like, like, I think. I think that, like, there's just no way that this event doesn't lead to another Kalshee, like, big clusterfuck.
- [29:06]
A
Wait, hold on. I don't. I. I want to stay on this for just a second. This is, this is what it looks like. I've only been. I guess I've only been looking at AI photos of this.
- [29:14]
B
That's the Eiffel Tower of America.
- [29:16]
A
It doesn't look great. I gotta be honest.
- [29:18]
B
I don't know why they. I mean, I get that they're like, we're doing it on the White House lawn, so we'd like to see the White House behind it. But I think that, like, there's maybe a more artistic way to frame the White House than a weird garbage spider cage.
- [29:31]
C
Also, the cage doesn't have a top. There's no need to have a top. You can just put the ufc.
- [29:35]
B
That's a good point.
- [29:35]
C
You can just make like a golden UFC cage.
- [29:38]
A
I guess. If it rains though, there is a. There is a canopy on this.
- [29:41]
B
There's no gold, which is surprising. I also think there's a lot of LED screens, which makes me believe that you all aren't going to be seeing the actual fight.
- [29:47]
C
Absolutely, Absolutely not.
- [29:49]
B
I think you're going to be looking at a screen beneath them and they're going to put on a puppet show if it starts raining and be like, you guys need to watch. As I said before, I don't watch ufc, but I'm told it can be a so called star studded affair. The cameras like to pan to the celebrities, tech oligarchs like Mark Zuckerberg and Trump administration officials who've made a habit of going to the big fights. I wanted to ask the guys what they thought of that kind of display of excess happening with the White House as the backdrop.
- [30:17]
A
Like all authoritarian and totalitarian states do this like, this was like a thing with like Nazi Germany and opera. Like, you. You latch on to the popular culture of the time and you use it to promote your message. And you latch onto like, the popular celebrities that you can get a hold of and you co op them as well. This is like total, like dictator 101. And it makes sense that he would do this. And it makes sense that like most American celebrities right now would agree to it because they don't have any real money.
- [30:51]
B
Yeah.
- [30:51]
A
So it's like, it's very easy to go to a Kylie Jenner or a rock who have no actual liquidity other than like net worth and say, well,
- [31:00]
B
like, Sydney Sweeney will be there because she's got to pay her, like, employees.
- [31:03]
A
Why not? I mean, honestly, like, for any of those celebrities that like, either are conservative or don't care about seeming conservative, like the Trump administration knows, or UFC rather, let's say UFC knows, you can scoop them up for really cheap and like, you can just sit him, you know, fight side courtside or whatever and, and, and pan over to them.
- [31:22]
C
I was unaware that this was Trump's birthday present to himself.
- [31:27]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Normal.
- [31:29]
C
That's, that's some real North Korea shit.
- [31:32]
B
Yeah, it's pretty pathetic. But, you know, what do we expect? What do we expect anymore?
- [31:38]
C
Do we think that they're gonna sing Happy Birthday?
- [31:40]
B
I think he's gonna demand it. There's probably gonna be like a cake presentation before it starts.
- [31:45]
A
So I just googled it. Hitler, for his 50th birthday, had a giant four hour military parade in Berlin with 50,000 troops.
- [31:52]
B
Does the fact that Trump doing something like this is considered, like, fun trademark for a contingent of the population, despite the fact that it's probably going to be corrupt. And meanwhile, anyone anti Trump has to harp on that. The fact that it's like you're doing a little sleepover fun time boys night at the White House. Like, like, does all of that underscore why Trump is successful and why Democrats have failed in the last decade?
- [32:18]
A
Yes.
- [32:19]
C
Yeah. I mean, honestly, if there I was thinking, I was like, if this wasn't Trump and like, somebody started doing free concerts on the White House lawn or
- [32:27]
A
like, people would be psyched.
- [32:29]
C
It'd be like, cool.
- [32:30]
B
Sure. Yeah.
- [32:32]
C
What's the problem with it?
- [32:33]
A
Zorin in here in New York just announced like a free watch party in Bryant park for the Knicks finals. Like, I don't think that we should immediately be like, Trump is a normal American president, because he's not. But, like, in different times, I think this would be received very differently. What I, what I will say to throw this back on ufc, because I think that they are kind of the active participant in this story. Any brand like UFC that ties their boat, you know, ties their wagon to Trump is gonna have a really rude wake up call when the fever breaks and this era ends. And we saw this with the Bush administration, with the Reagan administration, when, when, you know, the, the check finally comes, we're going to look back and be like, wow, UFC feels so 20 twenties.
- [33:20]
B
Right?
- [33:20]
A
That's what always happens.
- [33:21]
C
Yeah. I mean, they've been terrible culturally. Like, Dana White was Recently saying that he hates people coming out and talking about, like, take care of your mental health. That, that's like, that that's a bitch move. Like, they are truly, like, like, have. Have adapted the most regressive aspects. Like, more so than. Than what Trump says directly. It's a bummer. Like, it doesn't need to be that way.
- [33:48]
A
And like, it's really ruined the sanctity of ufc.
- [33:53]
B
I mean, listen, if I could pitch you some content ideas for your time there. I think you should ask all them in there when they got divorced. Name, where are you from and when did your wife leave you?
- [34:04]
A
When was the last time you talked to your kids?
- [34:07]
B
Are you allowed to talk to your kids?
- [34:08]
A
Are you allowed to talk to your kids?
- [34:10]
B
That's a great question. And I do think that, like, based on what you just described, Grant this idea that, you know, they want to be the most regressive, and it is all sort of like grievance politics. Like, fine. That I think that that aligns with exactly one worldview. And it's not in a diner in the middle of the night. It's a lot of dudes who aren't allowed to see their kids or owe their kids money.
- [34:31]
C
No, I'll be. For the, for, for the use. I'd be really interested to ask them if they're dating, if they, the last time they've gone on a date, what a date constitutes for them.
- [34:41]
A
They're all non. Binary them. All of them at the ufc. Yeah, all of them is woke now. I heard. I heard UFC is woke now.
- [34:48]
B
Maybe during Pride Month, though. I mean, do you think they'll do, like, a Pride celebration?
- [34:53]
C
I have seen that some, like, activist groups are trying to get the tickets and turn it into a Pride event, which.
- [35:01]
A
That'd be fun.
- [35:02]
C
That'd be really fun.
- [35:03]
B
I wanted to stop for a moment and square those two things. If Trump doing this kind of thing speaks to a fascist playbook a la Hitler, and anyone who speaks out against it is just a stick in the mud, those seem contradictory.
- [35:15]
A
I actually think the contradiction is the point. So, you know, if you're a populist, you know, a far right populist, you have no problem having a UFC fight on the White House lawn, and you have no issue with how gaudy and ugly and insane that idea is. And historically, you know, over the last, like, 10, 15 years, as Democrats have tried to go one for one via populism with the Republicans, they've always come up embarrassed whether we're talking about, like, Hillary Clinton's appearance on Broad City or Brad Summer and Kamala Harris, like, or Beto o' Rourke skateboarding.
- [35:51]
B
But are those things embarrassing until they lose? Like, I don't think that they're embarrassing in the moment. I don't think so. I mean, like, if you recall, Brad Summer was a. I mean, it's the most successful Charlie XCX has ever been. I mean, when Charlie XCX says that Kamala is brat, I don't think that everyone is embarrassed. I think that the embarrassing thing is, like, she doesn't have an answer on Palestine. You know, she doesn't invite those protesters onto the stage at the dnc. But I think it's easy in hindsight to say, well, that was corny and stupid the whole time when everybody else was posting their little coconut tree memes. Like, because I also think that, like, to that end, and people might think this is really cool right now, but if Trump gets his ass kicked, I don't expect people to say, but that UFC thing was actually so dope.
- [36:34]
A
But you answered your own question. It has to go with strongman politics.
- [36:38]
B
Well, it has to go with successful politics beyond anything else, like strength. If the, if there is a red wave in November, suddenly all of this was the right thing to do.
- [36:49]
A
Sure. Exactly.
- [36:51]
B
If he gets his ass kicked, I'm sure there will be a highlight reel of Here are all the dumb things Trump did. So, like, the honest conversation I gu. That I'm trying to get at is like, is it, you know, if this is the playbook and Dems have to react in some way, or maybe we don't. Like, is the answer actually, like, just don't care about this? Like, is that the best case scenario?
- [37:11]
A
I mean, that's what I'm trying to say is like, if you, if you want to do the populism playbook, you have to combine it with strength, whatever that means to you. So, like, vic. Electoral winning, sure. But if you're just going to be like, we're going to go slop for slop with them, it doesn't really work if the Dems, you know, sweep the midterms and then they want to have a free Olivia Rodrigo concert on the White House lawn, like, that is a totally different situation than them trying to do, I don't know, like a WNBA game this week to counter program the UFC match or something. Like, it doesn't work that way because it, the population wouldn't.
- [37:48]
B
Right.
- [37:49]
A
Like, I don't know. But the populism is the point. Like, like Trump is in power he exudes strength. So he's allowed to be wacky and sell Teslas on the White House lawn and do all the other dumb he does and pander to his audience. But if he was losing, he would look desperate and sad. And so that's the, that's the thing that I think the Dems, you know, to get back to your question, like, that's what they've never really understood is like, you have to have the strength, whatever that means, to do strong man politics. And then you do the population populism.
- [38:19]
B
Sure. I mean, like, when I look back at sort of the Obama era, you know, like, there weren't necessarily all of these stunts. I think that, like, typically in that version of Democratic politics, what you would have is like a natural disaster, like Haiti. And then there would be like a big fundraising effort where celebrities would come out and it would be sponsored by the government. There's usually not just like a. And for their birthday, we decided to do a thing.
- [38:44]
A
Yeah, it's tacky and insane. That's an insane thing to do.
- [38:47]
B
But, like, I guess my real question is, like, does it matter? Because it's like one side of the politics in this country, and there are two sides, frankly. Like, one side of the politics in this country is allowed to be tacky and ugly and embarrassing and regressive, and the other has to be, like, getting it right all the time in the moment and in the future. And so, like, I guess, like, it just feels like a lose, lose. Like in Trump era, Trump does whatever he wants and we're really not supposed to say anything about it. And then finally when he's gone, we also can't really say anything about. It's just sort of like, let's move on. Like, he's sort of got this, this free pass that no one else has.
- [39:22]
A
Yeah. Because he's a dictator. Like, like, like, like he's, he's breaking the law and he's doing all sorts of insane that, like, breaks norms and is really tacky and ugly. And he's allowed to do it because, like, his fans will kill you. And if you get mad about it, because we live in like a, you know, borderline junta. So, like, that is the problem. And, and the Democrats don't really know how to navigate that because half of them are like, my Tottenkov tattoo is fine, and I'm very active on the kick dating scene. And then the other half are like, actually, we need to get like, you know, I don't know, some fucking cringe thing from 10 years ago to happen, and we need to be higher and better minded. But the answer is like, both of those mean that Trump is still dictating the. The playing field. Like you. You say we don't. We can't talk about it. But it's more like you just have to stop letting him lead the conversation. And I don't really think that the UFC match is leading the conversation. It's. It's more of, like, a stunt for his idiot followers. But I would love a Democratic politician to, like, have a free concert on the White House lawn. That sounds fun. I mean, I just think more free, civil, civic stuff is nice, but this is an insane thing to do.
- [40:39]
C
When Zoron filmed a video when he was trying to get elected going to a Wu Tang concert, it wasn't cringe because you believed he was actually a fan. That there wasn't tons of spreadsheets made about the cost benefit analysis of him doing this. It was like, I am authentically a fan. Hillary Clinton with Broad City, I don't think that she was a huge fan. I did not get.
- [41:00]
B
But also, like, that's got to be an age thing.
- [41:02]
A
Like, you don't know that, Grant.
- [41:04]
B
Because to that point, do I believe that Donald Trump knows who any of these people are? He doesn't even know his cabinet is. But.
- [41:10]
C
But he go. Goes to them.
- [41:11]
B
I mean, sure, but he goes to, like, events.
- [41:14]
A
I want Donald Trump to watch a vid. I think they should have done a production of a Vita, his favorite. It's his favorite musical he talks about all the time. I think a production of Evita on the White House lawn. And he could sit there holding Zora Mandami's hand and just have a great time eating popcorn and just queening out. Like, that's what the man wants. He wants to sit with Rosie o', Donnell, put, you know, bygones by bygones, and then just watch Evita together there. Let the old man just, like, do what he wants to do. I agree.
- [41:40]
B
Well, I think it's just like, you know, there's like a. There's an onus on some people to, like, actually know what they care about. And, like, they have to have real beliefs. And then you have Trump who's like. And completely malleable.
- [41:49]
C
Sure.
- [41:49]
B
Where it's like, wherever the spectacle goes, I am the spectacle. Like, if he goes to award shows, that doesn't mean award shows are cool or, like, better than everything else. It's just, that's where Trump's gonna go. That's where the eyes are. And so I feel like I think you're making really smart points. I do. Like, I think that Mamdani has a much easier time of it. And like, as a person who absolutely thinks he's doing amazing things in New York, like, like, he is a person who is young enough and cool enough that he could actually sell to me that he likes everything. Like, if tomorrow he said I was actually a big anime fan, but we've never heard him say anything about it, I'd be like, why would I disagree?
- [42:25]
A
He definitely, he's definitely watched Naruto, right?
- [42:27]
B
Exactly.
- [42:28]
A
There's no questioning, but no Akilah. To your point about, like, why do they get to do this? I mean, that is part of the, the reason why, you know, authoritarianism is so dangerous and why it is such a sticky virus in a democratic society because it changes the rules. And you know, we talked about kind of like the, you mentioned the natural disaster stuff, but like, of like the Obama era, but this new Republican Party, this. And I do think it is a new Republican party as of 2020, as of 2016, they are operating very differently than they did 20 years ago. They are very happy to do bread and circuses for their followers and they are very happy to spam Pepe the Frog bullshit from the White House account and like, not care about any of this stuff. Whereas during the Obama era and like the tan suit controversy or the, the beer summit because Obama was threatening the sanctity of the White House by smoking marble reds and playing basketball all day, which rocks. You know, they were very, very scandalized by this and they've been slowly learning how to remove those parts of the party. The Democrats don't really know which way to go because they're very. We're working on an episode about this right now, kind of talking to people at the dnc, but they're very top to down, whereas the Republicans are very down to top.
- [43:50]
B
So, like, yeah, I mean, but to.
- [43:52]
C
They're down to top.
- [43:53]
A
That's what we're down. I'm saying, I'm saying the Republicans at the UFC match are down to top.
- [43:58]
B
I just, just think, you know, they're probably more down to bottom. But the real thing is like, I, I guess it's just like the Democrats have, I think, a bigger challenge, which is like, you know, which way are we going as a country? The Republicans don't really care. Like, it doesn't actually matter. They, they don't care about decorum. They don't care about getting back to a world where people are respectful. And like, I think the Democrats have to decide, are we going to just be as annoying and horrible and ugly as this? And that's what America is now is like, like this, or do we want a culture that actually does care about things and that? Like, there is a standard to be held to whatsoever. And I think that, like, I can understand why that would be a hard toss up, because it's like, well, if the answer is we just have to do kind of like garbage politics, then I think that, like, okay, but then you got to do garbage politics better than the garbage man. Like, it's just a little tough.
- [44:52]
A
So I'll spoil our upcoming episode on this. I don't know when it's coming out, but when we talk to a member of the DNC as who was part of the DNC autop autopsy about this, the most interesting thing he said was that according to their research, all their polling going into 2024, the undecided voter is effectively gone in America and has been replaced with the disillusioned voter. And that disillusioned voter is sort of the direct response to, you know, post Cold War managerial democracy. This sort of feeling like, I don't, I don't matter. Like, you know, and they exist on the left and the right, according to the research the DNC did. And the major battle of both 2020 and 2024 was trying to activate disillusioned voters. And it's very hard to activate a disillusioned voter with a positive story if it isn't totally at 100% authentic feeling. Not authentic, but authentic feeling. And so from their point of view, the Democrats have had a really tough time, even with Biden winning in 2020, because they can't figure out through all of their different focus groups and market testing and all this stuff, a way to feel authentic. Whereas Trump is like, stick a UFC fight on the White House lawn and his, his, his followers are like, yeah, the White House, I'd, I'll burn. I would burn down the Capitol Building. I give so little of a. Because I'm so disillusioned. And that's that disillusioned voter idea. I keep going back to you because it also explains the flip flopping with like, RFK and his supporters and this, this sort of like, moving blob of ugliness that's just been haunting us since 2016. I think that's what this is. And so they don't give a if the sanctity of the White House is ruined by two men's brawling with each other because to them it's not sacred. They're they're pissed about it.
- [46:44]
C
Yeah, I think you're totally right that like it is a harder job and it has to be authentic and also like giving a simultaneously and to have those things not being contradiction. So like it is a tougher needle to thread but that doesn't mean that like opting out is the way to go, right? I mean the scavenger hunt that Zoron did was the most opt in should have been cringe but like hey, we're giving you a reason to care and we're doing and we're like actively doing things and trying things approach that I think is that's something to be followed but will probably be followed in a way that is just embarrassing.
- [47:29]
A
Look, when AOC wins in 2028, we can have Governor's Ball on the White House lawn and we can all dress like animal collective circa 2004 and we can just like millennial out and just celebrate.
- [47:44]
B
And on that note, I want to thank Ryan and Grant for coming on the show. Check out panic world on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts and let us know what you think of this whole spectacle in the comments. Is it a page ripped out of a fascist playbook? Should we chill out and think of it as a fun for some public event? Or is it something in between? Let me know what you think and I'll see you next week. How Is this Better? Is a production of Courier. It's written and hosted by me, Akilah Hughes. It is produced by Devin Maroney. Video editing is by Shane Verkus. The rest of the team at Courier includes Marianne Kuga, Sam Hollows, and Charlotte Robertson. Please subscribe to Follow How Is this Better? On all the platforms, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, etc. And tell someone about your favorite episodes. If you're interested in sponsoring episodes or giving us products to try and try to sell, reach out to advertiseuriernewsroom.com thanks for listening and until next time, see ya.
- [48:58]
C
Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying doing. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have
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B
one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today.
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C
I'm told it's super easy to do@mintmobile.com
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B
Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to 15 per month required Intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee, full terms@mintmobile.com.