There's No DEI in Baseball (Roy Wood Jr. Extended Conversation)

Summary

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How Is This Better?

Episode: "There's No DEI in Baseball (Roy Wood Jr. Extended Conversation)"

Host: Akilah Hughes (Courier)
Guest: Roy Wood Jr.
Date: January 23, 2026

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the intersection of race, baseball, and DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) initiatives in America, using the legacy of Jackie Robinson as a starting point. Host Akilah Hughes and comedian Roy Wood Jr. discuss baseball's complex racial history, the ongoing attacks on DEI by political actors like Donald Trump, and the performative nature of corporate social justice. Roy shares insight both as a passionate baseball fan and commentator on the sport's cultural dimensions, mixing personal anecdotes, social critique, and humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jackie Robinson's Legacy and Impact

• Personal significance to Roy Wood Jr.

  • Growing up in Birmingham, AL, a predominantly Black city, Roy was deeply immersed in Black history, shaping his understanding of Robinson's importance not just as a baseball player but as a cultural pioneer.
  • "He was the first arrow, you know, into the armor of oppression and sports being a tool to help create some degree of… maybe understanding." — Roy Wood Jr. [01:49]

• The Calculated Selection of Robinson

  • Robinson wasn't just any candidate; he represented the "right type of Negro" for the times—calm, unflappable, and unlikely to react violently, which was crucial for white public acceptance.
  • "They needed the right type of Negro to be the first... If the first negro coming there swinging and punching… it’s gonna be 20 years." — Roy Wood Jr. [02:25]

• Parallel to Other Civil Rights Figures

  • Similar logic applied to Rosa Parks as “the right type of Black,” highlighting how respectability politics played a role in narratives of Black advancement.
  • "It’s the same thing with Rosa Parks… No, we need a certain type of black because that’s how they're going to get the sympathy." — Roy Wood Jr. [02:57]

2. Integration and Backlash in Baseball

• Symbolic and Material Barriers

  • Breaking the color barrier (Robinson, 1947) initiated integration, but many teams staged performative signings — e.g., Bill Greason, the first Black St. Louis Cardinal, who never played an inning.
  • "There were so many teams that did these... black square–of–that–era type signing, but never followed through with it and were never serious about it." — Roy Wood Jr. [09:54]

• Insincere Integration & Corporate Parallels

  • Teams would sometimes sign Black players only for optics, similar to the modern corporate Black Lives Matter “black squares.”
  • "There was the same degree of insincere sincerity in terms of integration at that time." — Roy Wood Jr. [09:21]

3. DEI, "Meritocracy," and Political Backlash

• Weaponizing the Narrative

  • Discussion of how DEI (and prior, “woke” and “CRT”) is used as a slur by conservative politicians to galvanize their base and distract from actual policy failures.
  • "I just think these are scammers that do a good job of using buzzwords to get people all excited about stuff." — Roy Wood Jr. [24:58]

• Attempted Historical Erasure

  • Recent efforts by the Trump administration and Department of Defense to downplay or scrub the stories of Black heroes (like removing Robinson’s story from official websites).
  • "People will realize... you’re not going to be able to erase stories as long as they're storytellers." — Roy Wood Jr. [22:18]

4. The Decline of Black Participation in Baseball

• Changing Demographics

  • The percentage of Black players in MLB has dropped from ~13% in the 80s/90s to 6-7% today.
  • Economic barriers (pay-for-play, travel teams) and scholarship disparities make baseball less accessible and lucrative compared to football or basketball.
  • "If you're good at baseball, you're good at football, basketball or track. And those three sports in college offer way more scholarships and way more lucrative money." — Roy Wood Jr. [16:49]

• Urban Disinvestment

  • Cuts to local programs and parks further limit opportunities for Black youth to enter baseball.
  • "Most of those programs get cut. And that money goes to law enforcement... Maybe if you had park shit, the kids would have less, less time to murder." — Roy Wood Jr. [18:13]

• Initiatives to Revitalize Black Baseball

  • Highlighting Ken Griffey Jr.’s Swingman Classic as an example where Black college players showcase their talents to MLB scouts who otherwise rarely attend HBCU games.
  • "Most major league scouts are not going to where these Black colleges are... only time you get a look is when they're playing a… power conference school." — Roy Wood Jr. [16:58]

5. Humor, Storytelling, and Surviving Racism

• The Role of Comedy

  • Humor as a tool for education and empathy, not necessarily activism.
  • "If you’re in the room and you can laugh at it, I’m hoping that to some degree you can understand why it’s an issue to me." — Roy Wood Jr. [23:03]

• Jokes as Cultural Touchstones

  • Jokes alone can’t end racism, but they can prompt reflection and small shifts in perspective.
  • "Maybe you vote different. I don’t know. Maybe you do, maybe you don’t. But I never thought of there being this one magic joke that... you know, racism disappears." — Roy Wood Jr. [23:40]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jackie Robinson as “Woke”:

  • "Hell, yeah. Jackie Robinson was woke. This man had to agree to go and be a part of something that he knew would be chaotic and stressful as hell for the sake of changing and bettering the lives of people he would never get to meet." — Roy Wood Jr. [20:25]

• On Political Manipulation:

  • "I think Trump and his administration has done a good job of using racism and fear of other things as a manipulating tool to get people to ignore the fact that they are robbing the country and just running scams." — Roy Wood Jr. [24:43]

• On Historical Erasure:

  • "You’re not going to be able to erase stories as long as they're storytellers." — Roy Wood Jr. [22:18]

• On the Decline of Black Baseball Players:

  • "Baseball was about 13% black in the 80s and 90s, and now that number sits around 6 or 7%." — Roy Wood Jr. [15:57]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:24] Jackie Robinson’s significance to Roy and Black America
• [03:11] Hank Aaron’s record-breaking home run and what it signified
• [07:24] The complexity and 'radicalness' of Jackie Robinson’s symbolism
• [09:17] Corporate social justice parallels in baseball integration
• [12:00] Can Jackie Robinson's legacy absolve baseball or America?
• [13:36] Decline of Black players in modern baseball
• [16:49] Barriers to Black youth participation in baseball
• [18:13] Urban disinvestment and its impact on youth sports
• [20:25] Was Jackie Robinson 'woke'?
• [21:35] Erasure of Robinson’s story by the Trump administration
• [23:03] The role of comedy in coping with and addressing racism
• [24:43] How DEI is weaponized in political discourse

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Tone & Style

The conversation is sharp, irreverent, and unsparingly honest, blending historical perspective with personal narrative and humor. Akilah Hughes’s questions are direct and peppered with sarcasm, while Roy Wood Jr. offers thoughtful analysis seasoned with wit and firsthand knowledge of both baseball culture and Black history.

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Transcript

[A]

Over the same old news cycle, Tune in to Hysteria, your weekly group chat with me, Erin Ryan and my co host, Alyssa Mastromonico. Where no topic is off limits. From politics to pop culture. We're bringing you brutally honest takes on the stories shaping our lives. From powerhouse women like Elisa Slotkin to wellness trends in education. No sugarcoating, no doom scrolling, just real talk, strong women and hope to keep moving forward. Catch Hysteria wherever you get your podcasts and tune into our YouTube channel for full episodes and our special series. Hey everybody. Just a reminder that we're still working on brand new episodes for you, but for the next few weeks we're airing the unedited versions of some of the interesting conversations we've had so far. This one is with my friend Roy Wood Jr. We were talking about the Trump administration's attacks on DEI and their focus on so called meritocracy. At the time, there was scrubbing of Jackie Robinson's legacy on official government websites when the Trump administration took over. Truly sinister stuff. All that to say we also talk a lot about baseball. Please enjoy. This episode is about baseball, dei, all of the shit that's happening. And so I guess I just want to get sort of your background. Like you're a huge baseball fan. You're probably the biggest baseball fan that I know. So for you, like, what did Jackie Robinson actually represent to you growing up?

[B]

Jackie Robinson represented like in, in one way. Just for perspective before I start rambling. I'm 46, so he wasn't my era of baseball, but yeah, I also grew up in Birmingham where you learn every black fact there is to learn. It's a, the city, Birmingham proper is like 70% black. I. Everything I ever did was predominantly black. From the churches to the boys club to the schools I attended, my neighbor, every job I had. Mostly black. So yeah, black, black, black, black, black. So you learn all of this black history and you understand how much Jackie Robinson was able to help. I don't want to say humanize black people or the black experience, but it definitely, you know, he was the first arrow, you know, into the armor of, you know, oppression and sports being a tool to help create some degree of, I don't even want to say equality, but maybe understanding and like when you look at Jackie Story and the idea that, you know, they were looking specifically for, if I can speak for, they needed this the right type of, they need the right type of Negro to be the first Negro because of the first negro coming there swinging and punching these white folks back then. It's gonna be a 20 year. It's gonna be 20 years.

[A]

It's never. Yeah, like we, we're not trying that again.

[B]

Yeah. And it's messed up, but that's, that was part of the ideology, you know. You know, it's, it's, it's the same thing with Rosa Parks. We were like, no, we need a certain type of black because that's how they're gonna get the sympathy. And that's it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So it's messed up, but psychologically, that's what you had to do, I think Hank Aaron. So I'm doing a piece, I'm doing two pieces right now for MLB Network, and one of them is going to come out on Roku a little later this month. Well, in June and July of this year about the history of the Home Run Derby. And so in, in it, we talk a little bit about the history of the home run itself and we talk about Hank Aaron's home run, which broke Babe Ruth's record. Hank. And the idea that this was a black man in the south in the 70s and white folks was clapping for him.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so there's a, there's an iconic shot of Aaron rounding second base and these two white boys from the stands just come running with them just to pat him on the back. Those two white dudes got arrested.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For running onto the field. Hank Aaron paid their bail.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And it's. And so like this idea that Hank Aaron hit this ball that literally made people, for a split second, if only for a split second, made you forget about racism.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just made you didn't just think about, just didn't even think about it for a quick minute, you know, and then that begat the era of black baseball player that I came up watching, who was charismatic, who was flamboyant, who could be aggressive, who could be. You know, Ken Griffey was very much aggressive. I mean, very much charismatic. Bo Jackson had a bit of seriousness and focus to him, whereas Deion Sanders had a little bit of more flair. You know, and he was kind of, he'd high step around the bases a little bit. You know, baseball doesn't give you as many opportunities as football to showboat in the moment.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But still, Dion's fashion and his style and his approach to the game, you know, this was swag. This was the beginning of cross training era. This is when shoes and sneakers started to matter in the 90s. So, you know, to me, I feel like what Jackie Robinson did was open up the floodgates for so many other different types of blackness to be possible within the sport.

[A]

Wow. Facts. I'm from near Cincinnati. Ken Griffey Jr. Means the world to us.

[B]

Yeah, y' all love him more than Barry Larkin. And Barry Larkin got you a trophy, right?

[A]

Well, you know who they love the most is Pete Rose.

[B]

Of course. Classic. That's a classic Ohio. That's a classic Ohio.

[A]

That's somebody's grandpa. I would say rest in peace, but do I mean it?

[B]

You know, I was on an episode of the one time I did Letterman. Pete Rose was the couch guest. And wow. Very, very unwarm. I would just say that. I'm not gonna say he was rude. He definitely wasn't warm.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he wasn't about to chit chat.

[A]

Yeah, not to you.

[B]

He was not about no chit chat. And you. And I know with somebody like me, you can see the baseball excitement in my face.

[A]

Yes, exactly. A legend.

[B]

Yeah. And I want to ask him all These Big Red Machine 70s Joe Morgan questions and. And I. And I know I can't, and it's just not the time and place, but.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, but yeah. Not the whole.

[B]

He'll get in the hall of Fame now. He'll get in the hall of Fame now. I mean, you know, that's how basic, right?

[A]

Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's what they were saying, right? They were like, well, now it's fine, you know, because he's not going to show up and ruin it for everybody. They were waiting.

[B]

You can say that. I can, Yeah, I can say that.

[A]

Okay, so I guess on like, the story of, like, just taking it back to Jackie, because you're right, he was sort of this, like, door opening force. Do you think people today realize that he was, in his way, radical? Like, not just as a player, but as a symbol?

[B]

I don't, I don't know if people really realize just how impactful he was. But what I also don't think people realize is, especially when you get into, like, like, all right, like, I'll use now as a comparison when you get into, like, all of the Black Lives Matter corporate, The corporatization of social justice in the night, in the, in the 2000 and twenties, in the black squares. And we're gonna form a committee and we've hired people to help us figure out why we don't understand blacks. And we donated the money to the cause. And the. Yes, to fast forward, but not to me. Yes, but then to fast forward now to 2025 and say, we don't know who you are. Stop. Call you have no clue.

[A]

Literally, we did it. We solved it.

[B]

In that same vein, Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier. And as a result, a lot of teams were kind of. A lot of team number one. Here's the other thing about Jackie Robinson. Jackie Robinson comes into the league first year as the first black player in the league wins rookie of the year. Dodgers go to the World Series. Second year they win the World Series. So it's like on some Shohei Ohtani. Japanese. The Japanese guy, yes. Taking him. It's like that, but blacker. So.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Who is this mother? So a lot of what drove integration in sports was the fact that a team with a black player would come and run circles around. It's the same thing in University of Alabama. USC came into town with a black running back and ran Alabama off the field. Field. And the next year, Alabama was like, all right, we gotta get some black running backs in this business.

[A]

Yeah, it seems like black people can run.

[B]

Yeah. So you had the same degree of insincere sincerity in terms of integration in that time. There's a player, Bill Green, who was a retired Negro leaguer. Bill Green. I spoke with him last year. They did a big Negro league tribute to Willie Mays in my hometown of Birmingham at Rick Woodfield. And MLB Network allowed me to be part of the coverage. And we did some digital stuff and we went around Birmingham and talked to retired Negro leaguers that still live. Bill Green. Bill Green is the oldest living Negro Leaguer at 99 years. Well, he's probably 100 now at this point. I talked to him last year. Greason was the first black St. Louis cardinal. He was the first black, black person to dawn a major league uniform for the St. Louis Cardinals. He never played a single pitch, not an inning, not a day, never played, never walked onto the field. And so there were so many teams that did these. Essentially the black square of that era type signing, but never followed through with it and were never serious about it. And Greasen was good. And you. And there were so many Negro leaguers that had these types of stories where they. You was doing well in the Negro League, you were doing fine. But then. Yeah, because you left the Negro leagues to go to the pros and the pros didn't play you. Your talent wasn't in the Negro League. So that product became subpar. And it's part of integration is part of what killed the Negro Leagues.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it never meant that all of these Negro league just got there. Just do right professional level. So, you know, there's. There was A great degree of, you know, Jackie's impact. But there was still a lot of work to be done over the years, you know, after that.

[A]

Yeah. So, I mean, this is just sort of like a sidebar. But do you feel like the Jackie Robinson story, like, in the sort of grandeur of it all, is like a way for white people to feel good about, like, you know, they're like, in C. We let one of them play. And so we're not bad in the same way that, you know, like any of those sort of feel good black movies where they're like, and then the town changed because a black person showed up. This is their movie.

[B]

It's unique because I feel like. I feel like Jackie Robbins. Like, you take a movie like 42, right. If you take a movie like 42, where on the surface it's, we were nice to this black. Remember this one? We were nice to him. We're good, right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I. I don't think that Jackie Robinson getting into the majors was a safe enough way for people to absolve themselves. When you have so many stories, like Bill Greens.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Where, you know. Or like the Boston Red Sox, who double fact check this with your producer. But if I'm not mistaken, the Red Sox were the last to integrate. So, you know, which is odd. But then the Celtics were one of the first, so maybe they made it for it on the basketball side, but.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But the idea that Jackie Robinson is proof that all of this is solved, you gotta be crazy. If you're.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, if you're thinking that, you know, if we're just talking about equality as a whole and Jackie Robinson. But if we're talking about baseball specifically, I think Jackie Robinson was net positive. And then there was a wave of resistance for the next 10 to 15 years that we kind of don't mention it. Like, like black and baseball history goes Jackie Robinson. And then it just jumps ahead to Reggie Jackson in the 70s and it's like, yeah, remember, Jackie Robinson came in the leader. Reggie Jackson, three home runs.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Nobody ever did it, right.

[A]

Well, yeah, like, what happened in between? Then they're like, shut up.

[B]

Shut the. Shut your ass up.

[A]

Asking questions. Literally. Yeah, but it's. So do you think we're in that 10 to 15 years right now? Like, in the backlash to, like, do you think I don't have a chance for the next 15 years now because they overdid it with the corporate. The corporate Black lives matter.

[B]

I think where baseball is concerned, it's a tough. So black numbers in baseball are down immensely at peak blackness in baseball in the 80s and 90s. You know, Barry Bonds, Bobby Bonilla, Darryl Strawberry, Dwight couldn't just. Andre Dawson. Every team was littered with black American players. And it wasn't an uncommon thing. And there hadn't been as big of a Latin infusion in the game because there weren't the mop camps and the recruiting and the scouting that happens now in the Caribbean. That that infrastructure wasn't in place. Of course there were Latinos, but the way they are now, it wasn't like that.

[A]

Right. So there were no La De La Cruz, you know.

[B]

Yeah, not as many. There wasn't a. There wasn't a day.

[A]

Yeah, right. We got Sammy Sosa and nobody.

[B]

Used to be black as hell, boy.

[A]

Yeah, he used to be.

[B]

Yeah. Jerry Curl and everything. Pull up old Sammy Sosa pictures. That boy look like, like. Like black. Black players made up. Yeah, he did. He looked like Nat King Cole. I'm a style and stuff. Cause I don't want to disrespect Nat King.

[A]

We'll be right back.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Steven. Because he's so evil, I do think he is misunderstood.

[A]

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[B]

Baseball rock. Baseball was about 13% black in the 80s and 90s, and now that number sits around 6 or 7%. But a lot of the reasoning for that, though, I don't think is all rooted so solely in Major League Baseball. And this comes from having conversations like literally, we just did. So the other segment that I'm working on this summer with MLB Network is about the Swing Man Classic, which Ken Griffey does. Ken Griffey Jr. Does every year, I think we're coming up on the third or fourth annual Swingman Classic is a black college all star game that's played within the all star city. So this year it'll be in Atlanta. So two, three days before the All Star game, the best black college baseball players get together and they play two, three games against each other. And major league scouts are there to see this top talent because nine times out of 10, most major league scouts are not going to where these black colleges are to look at these players. The only time you get a look at them is when they're playing a D, A, a more power conference school.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So the whole point of what we're doing with Griffey and them is just to explore black people that are still playing baseball, the coaches that lead them, the legacies of it, but also trying to figure out, and I asked a lot of the black players, why did you choose it? Yeah, because if you're good at baseball, you're good at football, basketball or track. And those three sports in college offer way more scholarships and way more lucrative money. If you're more lucrative money in the long run. I mean, up front, baseball is better money in the long run. But if you 17 and especially now with nil, you can play for this football team. And JoJo's barbecue grill gonna get you 50,000 to plug they ribs on your TikTok.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And your mama hurting for cat, you.

[A]

Gonna, you might just do it.

[B]

So there's a degradation within baseball culture at the ground level that to me extends a little bit beyond ML. It's going to take more Major League Baseball giving money to every city to go go make sure the blacks play when they 8 years old. Okay.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But then when they get 12, it's travel ball. And if you have a parent that can't afford that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You can't travel. And if you can't do, if you can't travel, you're not going to be good enough to get the scholarship to get drafted. So. And then also, if you really want to get into it, when we talk about urban communities in this country where they have programs in place for youth to do shit, most of those programs get cut. And that money goes to law enforcement. That money goes to other pieces of infrastructure that the city has deemed more important than the idea that maybe if you had park shit, the kids would have less, less time to murder.

[A]

Right? Exactly. They wouldn't be looking for a gun.

[B]

Would love to go murder with you today, but we got a game.

[A]

Exactly. Really trying to win.

[B]

That's not the exact metric, but you give. That's the basic idea of Parks and Rec, right?

[A]

Yeah. Like, you can't get in trouble if you have, like, actual something to be.

[B]

Doing with father figures from the coaches and the other parents. Like, you get. You get a community. So a lot of that falls outside of MLB's purview. And I think, yeah, there's some responsibility there. But I also just think that local, state, and local governments just, they're doing what they can to suffocate funding for anything that is positive or beneficial to the inner city. And baseball is on the list.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I mean, it's tough. It's like, I feel.

[B]

I'm sorry to be so sad. I feel like.

[A]

No, you're right.

[B]

I should say happy as.

[A]

No, no. I mean, I keep. I keep inviting you to do things that are always the hardest thing.

[B]

Why don't you have a love.

[A]

Can we do an episode about that? Why can't I be laughing all the time? Right. Can I pop a balloon? Can I call a man broke to his face. Well.

[B]

Question.

[A]

I mean. All right, so this is all about sort of this, like, DEI moment we're in where everything is dei before it was di. It was woke and crt. So I guess it's just a bare bones question. Was Jackie Robinson woke?

[B]

Hell, yeah. Jackie Robinson was woke. This man had to agree to go and be a part of something that he knew would be chaotic and stressful as hell for the sake of changing and bettering the lives of people he would never get to meet.

[A]

Yeah. What's better than that?

[B]

A lot of money. He got spiked in the knee. Anytime he slid into a base, they would step on him with this spike cleats. He gets hit by fastballs. He got called the N word repeatedly. And then there's all the death threats to your loving wife and family.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah, I'd say he's definitely sacrificed himself for the greater good, 100%.

[A]

Well, this year there was, like, you know, Donald Trump and his administration, which the clown car that it is, has been not only, you know, demonizing DEI and anyone darker than a paper bag in the media to their face, but there's also this sort of COVID erasure that they're sort of just hoping they can get away with. So I'm sure you heard about the Department of Defense removing Jackie Robinson's story from one of their websites. What's your reaction to that?

[B]

I think that we live in a country where, thankfully, hopefully, we have enough educated youth who have the ability to go out and seek the whole truth, no matter what partial truths that they've crafted in public school education. You know, we definitely, thankfully, still have the arts as well. And I think that that plays a big part in helping to educate people and give them the rest of the story on things. It's unfortunate, but I just think in the long run, people will realize soon enough from that side of the. From that side that you're not going to be able to erase stories as long as they're storytellers.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

Say that's futile. So do what you want. Take all the artifacts out, this, that, and the third museum. It's fine. We'll figure out another way.

[A]

We've always had to. So I guess that, like, that's at least in some way heartening. But to that point, you know, one thing I love about your comedy is that, like, I mean, it's about everything. Your observations are incredible, but you also don't shy away from talking about this stuff. Like, I feel like you do bring this, like, human element to just, like, the hard shit that people maybe are afraid to even think about and then are surprised that they can find themselves laughing at it. So, like, how does it feel to joke and hear people laugh about, you know, historical racism, modern racism when it's personal to you, those sorts of things?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, if you're in the room and you can laugh at it, I'm hoping that to some degree, you can understand why it's an issue to me. Humor, if nothing else, I think of humor as a. As a tool for informing and giving you more of a place to think and consider something. I do not consider jokes the thing that you're gonna leave my comedy show and go log on to change.org and be the right.

[A]

But go home and tell the joke worse to your family. That's what you're supposed to do.

[B]

But the next time you start thinking about these issues, you'll understand it from somebody else's side a little bit more. And maybe you vote different. I don't know. Maybe you do, maybe you don't. But I never thought of there being this one magic joke that I could. Harry Potter. And, you know, racism, disappearances, like.

[A]

And they all are suddenly like, we love Jackie Robinson and we're really sorry to the rest of the black baseball players. We feel it in our soul we were wrong. I mean, that's for sure. Okay, so my last question is really about this. Like, DEI is a slur, but. Because that's what it is. I think anybody who can rub Two brain cells together gets that. And we're watching. Every year they come up with a new one, and they're just too afraid to say the N word to our faces. And so, you know, the truth is they see equity and inclusion as a threat. So what do you think when you hear about Trump? Hegseth, all of these people say it like they do, you know, like they're really just trying to hit us with the hard R, but they just. A little too cowardly.

[B]

I think they just use. I think Trump and his administration has done a good job of using racism and fear of other things as a manipulating tool to get people to ignore the fact that they are robbing the country and just running scams.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just think these are scammers that do a good job of using buzzwords to get people all excited about stuff. Remember building the wall? What happened to that? We just not going to talk about that.

[A]

We gave up on that. Now it's.

[B]

I ain't gonna lie. I kind of miss building the wall. Wall. Now that we deporting people to countries they not even from.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, yeah, we kind of need to go back to try. Hey, about that wall, maybe you should focus on that. That was a good idea.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We should have just.

[A]

Everyone who's in here can stay and just, like, put a wall.

[B]

Because before, all he wanted was a wall. We should have just let him have the wall. So let's say that jokingly, but.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I just think that the DEI conversation, it's just another new. It's their latest single to keep their fans appeased.

[A]

Right, Right. It's the.

[B]

Yeah. And so it's on Democrats and centrists, rather, to figure out messaging that can help, you know, break through that, you know, Cory Booker can't stand for two days straight every month for y'. All.

[A]

Right. Yeah.

[B]

Two days.

[A]

Right. It also, like, what did it do? Right. He's like, and now I did it for a month and I'm just so dehydrated.

[B]

But that's the bold. That's one of the. But you got to figure out different messaging. I mean, at least they're trying now. At least Democrats are trying. Cory Booker was in the meetings.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What if I don't piss her for a day or two?

[A]

And they're like, it can't hurt it.

[B]

Try it.

[A]

Let's try it. Right?

[B]

Give it a shot.

[A]

Run it back. Let's see.

[B]

Yeah. I just think if anybody who's intelligent, you keep looking at what's going on in this country, and it's just, it's a, it's a robbery that's happening. You're witnessing a political robbery and anything else around that is, you know, I don't want to say a distraction because there are real lives and families being broken up by a lot of these policies. But so much of that is to get people upset and force you to focus on that. You have no choice but to focus on that if you have a decent soul that you don't see what's happening over here.

[A]

Right, right. Well, Roy, talking to you always like, it's just so illuminating. I think the only thing we have left, usually for these I have the guests introduce themselves. I'll probably, probably just introduce you. But if you just want to say who you are and what you do.

[B]

My name is Roy Wood Jr. Sometimes I do comedy.

[A]

Thank you for listening or watching. Again, this was my uncut conversation with Roy Wood Jr. For a previous episode, and while we're busy working on brand new episodes, we're going to send you another uncut conversation next week. Stay tuned. How Is this Better? Is written and hosted by me, Akilah Hughes. It is produced, produced by Devin Maroney and edited by Shane Verkus. Kevin Dreyfus is the Managing Director and Executive Producer at Courier. RC Demezzo is VP of Brand and Social and Charlotte Robertson is Deputy Director of Brand and Social. Tracy Kaplan is VP of Distribution and Sales. If you want to reach out about sponsoring or advertising, reach out to inforiernewsroom.com Marianne Kuga is director of Marketing and the original music is by Used People in artwork by Danielle Depleto.