← How Much Can I Make? — Real Jobs. Real Stories. Career Insights
How Much Can I Make? — Real Jobs. Real Stories. Career Insights
Custom Shirt Making: Career Insights from a NYC Entrepreneur
00:23:12
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- [00:04]
A
I remember we were doing a fitting for Tom Hanks for the Post. I'm in there. He puts the shirt on. He puts the suit on. He has the tie pushed up. He sits down. Someone hands him a newspaper. He's got a cigarette. He undoes the tile a bit and goes straight into character in the fitting room. He does the voice, you know, does the mannerisms. It was so much fun to watch.
- [00:28]
B
Welcome back to How Much Can I Make? I'm your host, Maravo Zeri. Today I'm here with Carl. When his wife Cynthia told me that I should talk to him because he's a custom shirt maker and his work is really interesting, I got really curious. I thought I should go and see his shop. I imagined the man sitting behind the sewing machine and working along, but I was totally mistaken. When I got to his shop on a second floor in a Manhattan building, there were like 10 people working. Seamsters, pattern makers. There were shirts everywhere, material of high end. Lots of shirts from Broadway plays and movies and pictures of celebrities. So let's find out. How did he get into it and why, and is it worth it? Carl, thank you so much for being here.
- [01:17]
A
Oh, my pleasure, Marath.
- [01:19]
B
Excellent. Let's start by telling me, how did you get into shirt design?
- [01:24]
A
Well, I'll give you the quick story. My family owned an army and Navy surplus store in Philadelphia. I worked there as a kid a lot of time, through college as well. But then in college, I met a woman, a girl, and I followed her to New York. I didn't go into the family business, and much to my father's, it's always because of love. Yeah. You know, I was one groomed to take over, even though my older sister ended up being the one who did. And sadly, the business closed a few years ago, shy of 100 years in business. My father was an amazing merchant and he turned it into a fashionable store starting in like this late 60s with the hippies, 70s, 80s, all the way into the 90s with the young punk rock. Kids would go shopping in there because it was inexpensive.
- [02:13]
B
Did you spend time in the store? Did you live in all that fashion and all of that?
- [02:17]
A
I worked there every Saturday.
- [02:19]
B
Okay.
- [02:19]
A
And my father used to take me to New York on business trips, meet sometimes. We'd go around the country to look at factories. I remember going to the Midwest to see a Lee Jean factory. And then we went down to Carolinas to see a sweatshirt factory that they used to buy tons of sweatshirts from.
- [02:36]
B
So was the desire to be one of those was building in you.
- [02:40]
A
Then, like I said, I moved to New York. My mother goes, if you moved to New York, you have to have a job. So I got a job at the old Barney's at 7th Avenue, 17th street, as a salesman. As a salesman downstairs selling shirts and ties and shirts. Yeah. Lots of accessories and whatnot. And I worked there only about three months from there because I didn't want to work retail. So I took a job in Williamsburg in a clothing factory that made really nice natural shoulder suits. Very classic suits. So I worked there for a year. And when I was there, one of our suppliers, I ran what they called the special order department. So stores around the country would send in orders, and I oversaw, like, six cutters who would cut the suits, and then they'd go through, make sure they got shipped. So while I was there, one of our suppliers of fabric, woolens, wanted to know if I wanted a job. So I ended up taking this job working in midtown selling woolens to the tailors.
- [03:36]
B
Selling woolens.
- [03:37]
A
Woolens.
- [03:38]
B
What is woolens?
- [03:38]
A
Suit fabric.
- [03:39]
B
Okay. You know, so you sell them the raw material.
- [03:42]
A
Sell them raw material. But when I was there, I met people who were what we call custom clothiers. And these were people who were not tailors. I am not a tailor. They would measure people, help style, and then they would have the stuff made in various factories.
- [03:55]
B
So when did you have the eureka moment that you said, aha, I could do that?
- [04:00]
A
1982. Wow, here's nice Jewish boys working for a gentile firm. And it's like, who are these people? I didn't understand them at all. They were just so. It was so strange. It was a different world. But they had a good business. Anyway, I left there, started this business. I floundered for a long time, but I had some good customers. And over time, I knew all the tailors from when I sold them fabric. So if I had a problem with the suit, I'd sometimes ask some of the tailors, why doesn't this fit? And we talk, and they'd explain, you know, what went wrong. And these were tailors who had made very expensive clothing. I was not competition. And they would say, you know what? Mr. Smith needs some shirts. Why don't you make him some shirts? So they helped me out. So I'd start making. I started doing more and more shirts.
- [04:47]
B
So you were actually taking the measurements and sewing?
- [04:51]
A
No, no, I don't sew a stitch. So I would take the measurements, style it, get the fabric. And I had different people making them for me at that point. There Was a little shop on 32nd Street. Did some work for me, and they only have about four people. And then there was another bigger factory in New Jersey that I work with, had a much bigger shop. They had about 80 or 90 people out there. It was a big shop. And they did work for people all over the country. So I was just one of their customers.
- [05:19]
B
So custom shirts is a. It's a tradition. It's going on for. For a long time. Forever.
- [05:24]
A
Yeah.
- [05:24]
B
Okay, so what was the moment that you decided you're going to open your own place? Your place is very impressive. You have a lot of people working there.
- [05:32]
A
The business changed over the years.
- [05:34]
B
Okay.
- [05:34]
A
So I started with a tiny little place and then took another little tiny place.
- [05:39]
B
And how did you recruit your people, your pattern maker, your tailor?
- [05:45]
A
People sort of found me in some ways. So when I was at 174 fifth above Eisenberg's coffee shop, I met this woman who had worked for somebody else for another shirt maker. And she had a fight with him. So she came to me and she was excellent. She was really good shirt maker. So she was working for. For me.
- [06:03]
B
So it all grew up very organically.
- [06:05]
A
Yeah. Then I got another sewer. Then I found a cutter pattern maker and then added another person here. More machines moved to a bigger space, added more people, got a better cutter, got rid of the other one.
- [06:20]
B
Who comes to you for custom shirt? Let's start with that.
- [06:23]
A
For years it was just regular men who wanted something nice, something special. Sometimes they were really difficult to fit. A man might have a 19 and a half inch neck, but the rest of his body is a large. So if you bought a 19 and a half, he's swimming in the shirt and you can't alter it. Then you get the type who want specific details. And for example, some guys want a pocket on their shirt with French cuffs. And you can't find a shirt for cufflinks with a pocket. And then there's other people who just like the idea of picking their own fabrics, picking the styles and having it made for them.
- [06:57]
B
I saw shirts that you did for the Producers on Broadway, for Tom hanks, for Leonardo DiCaprio. Before we get to the entertainment business, what is the craziest request you had for shirt?
- [07:10]
A
There's a lot. I mean, in the last couple years, it was kind of interesting was a young black kid bought a Louis Vuitton scarf that had like tags on it, looked like luggage tags. And he asked us to make it into a short sleeve shirt, which we did. And it was absolutely Beautiful. If you look on my Instagram, it's there. And the way my pattern maker did this, matching everything, it says Louis Vuitton on the back of the shirt, on the little sleeve. I mean, it's phenomenal how he did this.
- [07:39]
B
And it's allowed to do it, right? To take somebody.
- [07:41]
A
Why not? He. He bought the fabric. I mean, he bought the scarf. You do anything you want with it.
- [07:46]
B
Okay.
- [07:46]
A
You know, he's not trying to resell it to somebody else.
- [07:49]
B
Right. He's just one of.
- [07:50]
A
That's for him himself. Yeah.
- [07:52]
B
So, okay, so I get what is different from the custom shirt, from the shirt on the rack, because you could really fit it. And I can see it's. It's a very expensive thing to do, though. Only people with money could do that.
- [08:04]
A
Well, you know, I. Years ago, I used to have this bus driver. He lived out way out in middle of nowhere in Queens, and he did a Frank Sinatra routine in one of the local bars. And he wanted to have shirts that look like something Frank Sinatra wore, you know, back in the 50s and 60s. He'd come in and he'd give me. We'd pick out the fabric. He'd give me like, $20 or $30 up front, and then he'd send me. Every week, there'd be a check, another check for $10, a check for $12.
- [08:33]
B
What was the total? Do you remember?
- [08:35]
A
You know, it was probably like $200. This is years ago. He passed away, and he would keep sending me these checks every week. Once he paid. Once it was all paid, he came and picked up his shirt. And he. He was a bus driver. I mean, this. I mean, he had maybe two shirts made a year.
- [08:50]
B
Right. And that was his custom. Yeah, but. Okay, so from a custom, let's get to all these celebrities, tons of celebrities that I saw pictures of and shirts of. How did you break.
- [09:00]
A
Here's how it started.
- [09:01]
B
Okay?
- [09:02]
A
One day I get a phone call from this woman. She's one of the costume designers of the show Spin City. This is back in the late 90s. And she asked me the prices. I get a call the next day. Can you come, please measure the producer of Spin City. I said, sure. They were filming over on 23rd street at the piers all the way west. So I said, who am I measuring? Oh, Michael J. Fox made some shirts for Michael J. Fox. They were happy. And then there was a fellow working there at the time in the costume department who went to work for William Ivy Long, who was a famous costume designer who has won numerous Tonys they were working with somebody else, they didn't really like him. Fellow Tom said, why don't you give Carl a try? So the first shirts we made were for the Music man with Craig Pierco. So we made shirts for that. And I even made shirts for the recent Music man with Hugh Jackman. But the funny thing about Hugh Jackman was the first shirt we made was the typical big stripes with a white round collar. And he tries it on, it looks great. Afterwards he goes, I don't want to look like the typical music Man. So he basically copied a Prada shirt that he loved, which was, okay, fine, whatever you want, we'll do it. You know, you're the one bringing the, you know, Hugh Jackman's bringing the people to the theater, whatever he wants.
- [10:18]
B
Right. Well, so.
- [10:20]
A
And then the next show William Ivey Long did was the Producers. So nice Jewish boy was making Nazi Stormtrooper shirts for a year.
- [10:31]
B
For a year you worked?
- [10:33]
A
Yeah, we did for ran for a long time. I made shirts for Nathan Lane, for Matthew Broderick.
- [10:39]
B
So what do you mean it ran for a long time? Throughout the show you had to renew and make.
- [10:43]
A
Yeah, you always had to make new ones. So the actors. So for example, let's say it was Nathan Lane, right? You know, he had four different shirts that he wore and you make at least two of each shirt so that he wears one one day and then they wash it and that evening he puts on the other shirt.
- [11:00]
B
Right.
- [11:00]
A
Sometimes certain actors perspire quite a bit and you make more.
- [11:04]
B
Wow. And what do they pay? The Broadway must pay big money for a shirt.
- [11:08]
A
I usually charge them the same price. Usually the only time I charge them more is if they need it in like a day or two.
- [11:15]
B
Oh, right. Which happens, right.
- [11:18]
A
I mean, we will make a shirt in two hours when we have to.
- [11:21]
B
But the material you use is very expensive. Right.
- [11:24]
A
For the Broadway things, it doesn't have to be expensive. It has to just look the way they want it to look. It has to look a specific way.
- [11:32]
B
Oh yeah, makes sense.
- [11:34]
A
Yeah. For costumes. Yeah.
- [11:35]
B
So okay. And how did you break into TV and film?
- [11:39]
A
I mostly did Broadway and then, you know, they all talk, all the costume people talk to each other. Oh, I need something made. Who do you have? And my name would get passed around. And then I started doing TV and some film. I made shirts for this costume designer, Anne Roth, who is amazing. She's won both Tonys and Oscars. I remember we were doing a fitting for Tom Hanks for the Post.
- [12:02]
B
Uh huh.
- [12:02]
A
And I'm in there. He puts the shirt on. He puts the suit on. He has the tie pushed up. He sits down. Someone hands him a newspaper. He's got a cigarette. He undoes the tile a bit and goes straight into character in the fitting room. He does the voice, you know, it does the mannerisms. It was so much fun to watch.
- [12:23]
B
Wow. Who else? Give me some more gossip.
- [12:26]
A
You know what? Most actors are wonderful to deal with.
- [12:32]
B
Really?
- [12:32]
A
Yeah, they enjoy. They're nice. I mean, sometimes you get actors that are funny who do shtick during the fitting. Martin Short. Yes. Nathan Lane. I'm trying to think of some others. Billy Crystal is not funny in real life.
- [12:47]
B
Really interesting.
- [12:49]
A
Don't tell anybody. There's certain actors who I will not name, who I never have to measure in person again, nor do I want to. But I have their measurements and we just make them things.
- [13:01]
B
Wow.
- [13:02]
A
I don't always measure the actors in person. Sometimes they'll give me a shirt that they wear and they will copy it and make adjustments to it.
- [13:11]
B
Now, are you usually the one that does the measurements?
- [13:14]
A
Yes.
- [13:14]
B
Okay. So you do the marketing, obviously, and the sales, and you do the measurements and then you come, you give it to the people and they take it from there.
- [13:22]
A
Yeah.
- [13:23]
B
That sounds like a great job.
- [13:24]
A
Yeah, I enjoy it. There was a long period of time where I struggled when I met Cynthia. This is about 12 years ago. Things really start to turn around for me and my business, mostly the entertainment business, just grew.
- [13:39]
B
Yeah. It's love again brought it to you?
- [13:41]
A
No, it's back. And now today it's like 50% of my business. Entertainment, TV, film, broad. I do a lot of work on Broadway still.
- [13:49]
B
What do you prefer to do? Entertainment industry or individuals? Yeah.
- [13:54]
A
With certain customers, I build a rapport and it becomes personal. I've become friendly with some of my customers and socialize with them. You know, there's plenty of faceless customers. They come in, I can't remember their name. Who are they, what do they do? But I remember a lot of my really good customers and enjoy seeing them.
- [14:13]
B
Do you make shirts for weddings?
- [14:15]
A
Oh, of course. Wedding. Yeah, we. So as the business has grown, these days we want a five shirt minimum. So if somebody comes in, because we make a full pattern, Right. And that's time consuming. We make a first sample and today somebody wants one shirt, two shirts, I just say, no, we don't have the production capable. We do everything inside. And for years I worked with another factory in New Jersey that did quite a bit of my work. And sadly, he closed during the pandemic.
- [14:42]
B
So it's all in house now.
- [14:43]
A
Everything's in house? Yeah. For, for weddings. I'm not, I'm not doing one for this one, one for that one. It's five for the same customer.
- [14:51]
B
Oh, okay.
- [14:52]
A
Oh, yeah, no, I'm. It's, it's because every time you make one, if it's a new customer, you have to remake a pattern. We're not computerized. If I was to get a computer in there to make the patterns, it be easier, but we don't have that yet. And what that's going to happen one of these days.
- [15:06]
B
Oh, you think so?
- [15:07]
A
I have to. Yeah.
- [15:08]
B
You could have robots. You could do one robot that will do the pattern, sew it for you and it goes.
- [15:14]
A
Like I said, when you, when you get the robots involved, there's no love.
- [15:18]
B
Right.
- [15:19]
A
The pattern is, is a lot easier to do because you still need somebody to cut it. We cut by hand. I'm not ready to spend a quarter million dollars to get an automatic knife cutter.
- [15:29]
B
Oh, that's.
- [15:30]
A
They have those too. They have these amazing cutting machines. And then the big factories have machines that make everything automatically. And today all the shirts are made in these massive factories with computerized machinery. There's nothing worse than non iron fabric. It's. It's an abomination.
- [15:49]
B
Why?
- [15:49]
A
Oh, it's, it's treated with terrible toxic chemicals. Formaldehyde, liquid ammonia, a lot of resins. That's what they put in, in the non iron shirts.
- [15:59]
B
Wow.
- [16:00]
A
And as I always put it with my ladies in those big factories, there's no love in the garment when we make the shirt. You know, it's a small work room. There's. We have up to 10 people and they care.
- [16:11]
B
So if you look back now, what is the one thing that you wish you had known before you started your business?
- [16:18]
A
You know, when I first started, I don't think I was as hungry as I became later in terms of the business. When my son was born, that's 35 years ago, there was this revelation. I said to myself, oh my God, I've really got to start working. No more fooling around.
- [16:35]
B
That will do it for sure. Now let me ask you what kind of training somebody needs to get in order to become a shirt maker?
- [16:42]
A
It depends. If you're going to sew and cut, then you really need a proper education. There's a lot of stuff people learn on YouTube today. It's amazing how many tutorials you can see and sort of learn on your own. But you need someone to really show you how to do those things. But if you just want to be a designer, there's lots of ways to do it. There's lots of companies that will help you design your line, do the manufacturing, find the fabric, and then you just have to sell it and market it. And today there are factories that do work. Not so much in the United States anymore, but, you know, in Europe, obviously, China, Portugal, where they're really set up. Well, and you send the. I mean, in China, there's one factory I know, you send in the measurements, they pull the fabric, and two weeks later, the garment's been sent in, you know, at your doorstep.
- [17:27]
B
Yeah, I did it once with a leather jacket, actually with India.
- [17:30]
A
Okay. And how did it come out?
- [17:33]
B
Very good.
- [17:33]
A
Oh, good.
- [17:34]
B
What would you say people don't realize about your industry?
- [17:37]
A
Like any business, it's a lot of work. It doesn't. It's not easy. There's always something that could go wrong. For example, right now, the tariffs are so stupid. You don't necessarily know how much things are going to cost. I ordered mother of pearl buttons from Italy, and they came in much higher the tariffs than I thought they would. Well, that doesn't even include the shipping because shipping charges are high these days.
- [18:02]
B
Right. And you didn't calculate it into the estimate that you gave the customer?
- [18:06]
A
Well, no. I mean, I'm buying thousands of buttons at a time, so it's not a lot. It's just, to me, all of a sudden, it's an extra $400, which is really inconsequential for a single button when I'm buying thousands of buttons at once.
- [18:20]
B
Right.
- [18:21]
A
But it's still. It adds up.
- [18:23]
B
So, okay, so what is the biggest reward?
- [18:25]
A
I really like the interaction with the customers, with the costume designers, helping them to get what they want. And then when you see the finished product on somebody and how happy they are with the fit and the design, it gives me a lot of rewards. I love seeing clothes that we've made on stage. They're usually pretty nice. They always give us a couple of tickets to see a show. We did some shirts for Jonathan Groth for Justin Time. He actually loves my shirts. We did some stuff for another show. He always wants me to make shirts for him. I've never met him, but he knows he wants me to make them. We do a lot of shirts for shows like Law and Order and FBI. I used to make shirts for Tom Selleck for years. Really watch Blue Bloods. But he was very nice. He was really. He was really? And as he. When he was in his 20s, he used to work in men's clothing stores in Los Angeles. And we had a wonderful chat about old stores in Los Angeles.
- [19:26]
B
So at the time they had to come to your shop to be measured, right?
- [19:30]
A
Depends. Some. Occasionally they'll come to my shop. And Tom Selleck, I went to the studio out in Queens to measure him out there.
- [19:37]
B
Oh, yeah. Interesting. So if somebody that's listening today will decide this is what I want to do, what is the first thing they need to do?
- [19:46]
A
Go online, learn about whatever you can. And then again, if you, if you're not going to be. If you're not going to learn how to cut or sew, you really have to look at garments just the same to see how they're manufactured. I don't know how to sew, but I know when I see a shirt when something's been done properly or not.
- [20:04]
B
So you have to learn like anything else, you have to learn it in and out. Are you thinking of growing your business or are you going to stay this.
- [20:12]
A
Well, at this point? You know, I've been doing this for a long time. I'm 67. If I really wanted to grow the business, I could, but I don't want to.
- [20:22]
B
Why? For why?
- [20:23]
A
Why? We're busy. I make a nice living. We do well, my wife and I have a lovely place up here, Bearsville, that we love to come to. I have no plans to retire. I may not work as many hours.
- [20:34]
B
But soon you're gonna have a grandson and you're gonna want to leave him a lot of money.
- [20:38]
A
Well, I'm excited for that. In fact, one of my ladies who's retired, I'll give her fabric and she comes back with baby clothes.
- [20:47]
B
Oh, wow.
- [20:48]
A
And they're the most beautiful, fun she made. And this time she made a little guayabera for like a one year old or two year old. I don't even know what size it is, but it was. It's fantastic.
- [20:59]
B
Now, come to think of it, custom baby clothes is a very good business idea.
- [21:03]
A
Oh, no, it's not.
- [21:03]
B
No.
- [21:04]
A
Because it takes just as much time to make a little shirt almost as it does to make a large. So. Yeah, it does. There's no. It's expensive.
- [21:15]
B
You never got into women's shirts, right?
- [21:18]
A
We do women's. Occasionally. Men are generally easier. Women will buy one shirt a certain style, then they want to do it another way. And it's just too complicated for us to make patterns each time.
- [21:31]
B
Right.
- [21:32]
A
So subtle changes. Yes. But I I. But I do have women who wear what we might call a uniform and they like wearing the same thing over and over again. Those are the customers that I like. There was a short lived women's pajama project that I was doing with my wife. They were beautiful, the pajamas. But it just. We. My wife and I did not know how to work together.
- [21:56]
B
So there it goes.
- [21:58]
A
It really. I am jealous of. Not jealous, but I. When I see husbands and wives work together, it has to be stressful because it comes home.
- [22:07]
B
Right. So you scratch that project.
- [22:11]
A
Yeah.
- [22:11]
B
Good for you.
- [22:13]
A
Yeah.
- [22:14]
B
What I wanted to ask you about your Instagram. How do. How do people find you on Instagram?
- [22:18]
A
My Instagram is not nearly as good as it should be, but it's C E, G O, N Y C. So. Sego custom shirts. Sego stands for Carl Edward Goldberg. And that's how you can find me. I'm famous in a very narrow field. So if you. Which is if you were to Google custom shirts, New York, I show up.
- [22:40]
B
Okay. Excellent.
- [22:41]
A
Yeah.
- [22:42]
B
All right. All right. Thank you. Okay, that's a wrap for today. If you have a comment or question or would like us to cover a certain job, please let us know. Visit our website@howmuchcanimake.info we would love to hear from you. And on your way out, don't forget to subscribe and share this episode with anyone who is curious about their next job. See you next time.