← How Much Can I Make? — Real Jobs. Real Stories. Career Insights
How Much Can I Make? — Real Jobs. Real Stories. Career Insights
Zoe Lewis' Music Career - From Freight Trains to Netflix.
00:25:33
Loading summary
Transcript91 lines
- [00:01]
Zoe Lewis
Speeding down six Speeding down six I've been way too long I got my fix yes, I'm speeding down six Speeding down six I'm hurrying home I remember once I was performing, and it was just. It was in this cast party in New York, and Liza Minnelli was there, and my heart was. I'd never sung the song so quickly in my life, but. But I remember Liza coming up saying, you were great. I was speechless.
- [00:30]
Razeri
Wow.
- [00:31]
Zoe Lewis
It was marvelous. And sometimes when I'm all alone with just a ukulele and a microphone, there's a feeling.
- [00:40]
Razeri
Hi, welcome back to How Much Can I Make? I'm Razeri. The song you just heard, spitting down six, is by my guest today, Zoe Lewis. She is amazing. Zoe does everything. She writes, single, sings, performs, produces, and she just has this way of turning regular moments into something magical. The Boston Globe called her equal parts musician and storyteller, which is spot on. Her songs have been everywhere. Broadway, documentaries, movies, even commercials. And I've seen her live a few times. Honestly, every show left me buzzing. I'm really excited to have her on today. So let's just. Just jumping. Okay? Zoe, thank you so much for doing it. I've seen your shows over the years. I think you are brilliant. Your lyrics, your performance. So I have so many questions that I want to ask you, but let's start with. You've been called a band in a body.
- [01:43]
Zoe Lewis
Well, I'm a band in a body because I play so many instruments and it was termed many years ago. I mean, I never thought about it, but, you know, I'm a piano player first and foremost. But then, you know, traveling, you can't take your piano with you. So I picked up the guitar, and then I found a ukulele, and then I jumped freight trains. And you can't even jump a freight train with a ukulele very easily. So I put a harmonica in my pocket, and that's how I learned to play harmonica. And then I traveled the world. You know, people find musical instruments brewing on the trees or out of garbage can lids or from the coins in their pocket.
- [02:19]
Razeri
From all your instruments, which one is your favorite?
- [02:22]
Zoe Lewis
Well, the piano is the one I'm most proficient on, so. And that's what I learned as a child, and I love it. I can pour my heart out on the piano, but it was very good for me to pick up other instruments and unlearn what I'd learned, because then it kind of came out of a purer place. When I play the guitar, I don't know what on earth I'm doing. I just stick my fingers anywhere and I'm like, that's nice. But with the piano, I used to think about it more. I mean, I still do think about it, but a bit. But I broke that thinking about it and now I just sort of play from my heart.
- [02:57]
Razeri
Did you always know you want to be a musician? At what age did you develop this musician, writer, songwriter?
- [03:04]
Zoe Lewis
Always said she was tone deaf and she wanted a child that could sing. And she had me when she was 51, so my brother, sister, 20 years older. So she said. Not that we were a religious family, but she said she prayed for a child that could sing. So I always say when I came out of the womb, I was singing. I've always wanted to do music and I didn't have a piano until I was 13. My dad had a little sort of organ thing that, you know, we'd plug in and I'd play. He was musical, but he never followed it.
- [03:33]
Razeri
When did you start writing music?
- [03:35]
Zoe Lewis
Well, I was always writing poems. I had. I grew up with a lot of children's verse in England. Robert Louis Stevenson and A.A. milne. I love all these magical children's poems. I still do read children's poems because they're gorgeous. Especially I've got books and books of the old ones. So I was always writing poems and I was always singing and I had piano lessons without having a piano. I'd go around to an old lady's house every Sunday and I'd do my practice, but of course I wasn't playing the notes that were on the page. I was just making it up. And because my mom was tone deaf, you know, and having a cup of tea with her friend, they thought I was just being.
- [04:14]
Razeri
Your mom turned deaf?
- [04:16]
Zoe Lewis
Tone deaf, meaning, you know, can't sing in tune. But my dad could, and apparently my mom's mum was. Could have been a concert pianist, you know, so.
- [04:27]
Razeri
So it runs in the family anyway.
- [04:29]
Zoe Lewis
Yeah.
- [04:29]
Razeri
So how did a girl from the UK end up becoming an icon in Provincetown, Massachusetts?
- [04:37]
Zoe Lewis
An icon.
- [04:39]
Razeri
Everybody knows you, everybody loves you. I talk to some people here.
- [04:42]
Zoe Lewis
Well, like, you know. So I come from a tiny village on the south coast of England. I'm from the water, you know, I grew up going to the sea. I would play my piano. When I did get my piano, I was. They put it in my room and I was in my room the whole time playing piano, teaching myself, basically. And then I joined a band, moved up to London, you know, when I was 18.
- [05:03]
Razeri
What kind of music did you play in the band?
- [05:05]
Zoe Lewis
Actually, it was in the summer holidays. And I said to my parents, can I just be in the band? You know? So the first band was sort of punk rock. I didn't care what music it was. I was. They. They. They wanted a keyboard player. And I was in. And I thought this was the best. I was happy as a clam in the back of the Melody Maker, which was the magazine in England, the newspaper. I saw an ad for a keyboard player. I went to London. I took my synthesizer. And because I had a synthesizer there at the Tun. Anyway, I got into the band, and these kids were studying sort of like performance art, like Fame. They were going to the Middlesex Polytechnic in London, and they were studying all sorts of music. And Latin had come in. It was the Latin tinge they were studying. I remember because Sade was playing Latin music. And as soon as I heard this Latin music, we didn't have that in my village, you know. It was hard enough for me to find out what jazz was. And as soon as soon as I heard this, my body reacted.
- [06:04]
Razeri
I'm glad you're bringing up the Latin, because one of the questions that I have, your song, Chili. It's a great song. It has a very Latin feel to it.
- [06:12]
Zoe Lewis
A little bit of chili, a little bit of lime salt on the rim and a little bit of thyme. You're gonna feel happy, Gonna feel fine Gonna feel very, very fine. Sunday morning the sound of bells Dogs are barking the bacon smells yeah. Well, I traveled. I've been to over 70 countries now. When I left England, really, it's because I wanted to come to the States and come out. I didn't realize that I had my sights set on San Francisco. But, you know, I wasn't thinking that. I went across south and Central America, and there were the Latin grooves. Me and my backpack. Talk about band in a body. I was. That's where I was. Picking up calabash off the trees. Jamming with everyone and seeping in like a little sponge. All of these musical grooves. So the Latin really spoke to me. In England, the music's very on the beat, and I am attracted to the offbeat. I like swing, I love to swing, and I love the Latin. So I'm always headed towards Latin countries. The music's free, like the people. The rules are lax. The weather's hot, People's hips move. All of a sudden, my hips were moving to music. It was good for me. It opened me up. So my song Chili, full of the Latin grooves and inspired by my winters In Mexico, because that's where I play every winter now in Puerto Vallarta.
- [07:31]
Razeri
Do you have many different styles? For examp the song the Whale, by the way, you have lots of albums.
- [07:37]
Zoe Lewis
I do have 10.
- [07:38]
Razeri
You have a lot of albums and great songs. But the Whale has kind of a little jazzy feel.
- [07:46]
Zoe Lewis
The Whale is right.
- [07:47]
Razeri
A complete different style.
- [07:50]
Zoe Lewis
Yeah, well, that's been my detriment through the years. Even though people say you can't put me in a box, which is a great thing. But then the DJs never know which station to play me on. Should they play me on the jazz station? The world beat one, the folk one, the children's one, the humorous one. But you know, it's because I've traveled and I. Like I said, I was a sponge and I love all. I love good music and that's it. So I might be listening to. Listening to some Cape Verdean grooves. For instance, I love Cesarea Evora, if you know her.
- [08:21]
Razeri
I love her.
- [08:22]
Zoe Lewis
And you know, it's Portuguese and Brazilian mixed and Cape Verde. I mean, I'm like, what are these grooves? I want. I would sit in my hammock and just swing. Like I'm sure the people there did too. It slows you down, you mellow. These grooves are phenomenal. And the instruments they play on. So then, you know, you listen to that enough and then you go to write and suddenly you've written something with a vague sort of Cape Verdean feel. The future's looking grim. We're all in decline the humpback and the fin but the worst fate is mine.
- [09:01]
Razeri
What was the story behind the will? How did you come to the idea of writing a story song about a whale?
- [09:06]
Zoe Lewis
Well, the whale is right, you see. We have the right whales here and here.
- [09:11]
Razeri
You mean in Provincetown?
- [09:12]
Zoe Lewis
In Provincetown. And they are endangered. And you know why they're endangered? Because the whalers killed them. And they were the right whale to catch for as far as they were concerned. So we're very excited now when we see a right whale here and only a few hundred left, I believe, on this planet. And they come through Provincetown. So when the right whales come through, they are documented very much, and we rejoice and study them. And I'm friends with like, you know, scientists and people from the coastal studies here. So we hear their reports. I was thinking about all that. And the whale is right. Nature knows far better than we. I like to twist the words and, you know, we need to listen to the animals and listen to the whale. So that's what that song is about.
- [09:57]
Razeri
And since we are on the environment thing, you have the song about the plastic soup.
- [10:03]
Zoe Lewis
Yes.
- [10:04]
Razeri
Which I actually heard you sing live in front of kids, and I could imagine what brought you. It's probably the plastic in the Pacific that we all know about.
- [10:13]
Zoe Lewis
Pacific Garbage Patch.
- [10:15]
Razeri
But what I want to know, what is the reaction of the audience when you sing that?
- [10:19]
Zoe Lewis
Oh, well, I think everyone's on the same page. It's just dire when you look up at how big these islands are, these plastic islands that are floating in the middle of the oceans. I don't like to preach when I'm on stage, but if you can tell a story through someone's eyes, through an animal's eyes, I mean, you make it personal. And all the currents converge together, bringing plastic. It's catastrophic. It never breaks down. It's microscopic. And now the fish is all e. Plastic. Plastic soup. Do you want some soup? Would you like some soup? I love to have children at the audience because, you know, you can make a huge impact. They're our hope for the future. And they get up there and they. They all scream out, no, we have to stop using plastic. It's very hard to stop using plastic. But do you want to have some plastic soup? And the children scream out, no. Because they love screaming out, no. And gets the point across.
- [11:18]
Razeri
Last year, I saw your show Speakeasy. Tell me about that show, and how long did it take you to put it together? Because that seemed to me, like, really hard.
- [11:27]
Zoe Lewis
Yeah, that's a lot of work, the Speakeasy. But for me, it's all about community. I love the 1920s. I love all those old songs where there were fabulous melodies. It could be maybe because my parents were older and I grew up listening to some of those old tunes. I love the messages in some of them. They're beautiful. I would be in a restaurant, and the waiter would come and bring some food, and he'd be singing as he arrived. I'm like, you've got a gorgeous voice. Would you like to be in the show? And then the lady in the bank is, like, humming a tune or the mailman. And it's my community.
- [12:01]
Razeri
Oh, those were all ordinary people. They were not musicians.
- [12:04]
Zoe Lewis
We have celebrities. We have. I mean, all people are ordinary and fabulous. So if you open your eyes or your ears, you find them. We've been doing it for over 10 years. I've had probably over 150 different performers, or if not 200, you know, I find someone, and now everyone finds me. But you Know, they come over to the house and we discuss which song. Do they know any songs from the twenties? Do you want to learn one? Do you want to be a lady or a man? Because they dress up. Do you want to be funny? Do you want to croon? And I love it because it's the gay twenties. That was the time when anything goes. So we have flappers, we have the gorgeous cigarette girl, we have debonair gents, we have trombones, clarinets, kazoos, a whole prohibition era jazz band. And over the years, I've had all these different spectacular performers. And of course, when they come and sit next to me at the piano, they tell me their life story and we become friends. Yeah, we all connect. They tell me that they were told they could never sing when they were little. And thank you so much that I realize I can.
- [13:07]
Razeri
Now, I know you have celebrities in the show, too, but just to use your mailman or whatever, how did it come to you to do that?
- [13:14]
Zoe Lewis
Well, we live in a little artistic community, and it's the same like New York. Look, every. Every waiter is really an. Everyone has other talents. You just have to find them. The venue was great. It sort of was like a speakeasy. And I always dreamed of doing something like that. And I probably got a few singers that I knew to come and help me. And then someone's like, oh, did you know? So and so they could. They've got a gorgeous voice. They'd love to be in this.
- [13:40]
Razeri
Fantastic.
- [13:41]
Zoe Lewis
It just grows. We just had. Kate Pearson joined us. We've had Margaret Cho, Leah DeLaria and the mailman.
- [13:49]
Razeri
Now, I know you toured with Judy Collins and the Go Go Girls.
- [13:54]
Zoe Lewis
Indigo Girls.
- [13:55]
Razeri
Indigo Girls. Sorry. Do you have any wild memories from any of it? What was the experience like?
- [14:00]
Zoe Lewis
It's wild for me playing on a really big stage because I'm used to playing small venues where I can see people's eyes. Especially when you're the opening act and everyone's waiting, really, for the next person, you know, and it's just you. You have to go up and be very big. I remember saying to Amy from the Indigo Girls, how do you do it when you can't see their eyes because it's all black up there? You just have the lights in your. And she said, you feel them. That was really good advice. Yeah, you do feel them, but it's scary and it's fast, you know, I remember once I was performing and it was just. It was in this cast party in New York and Liza Minnelli was there. And my heart was. I'd never sung the song so quickly in my life. Apparently I got through it so quickly and in quite a high pitched way. But I remember Liza coming up saying, you were great. I was speechless.
- [14:54]
Razeri
Wow.
- [14:56]
Zoe Lewis
It was marvelous.
- [14:57]
Razeri
You know, I want to ask you about money. I can understand how you make money with the Indigo Girls and Judy Collins and all of that. But when you do like a show like Speakeasy that we spoke about or or other little show, how do you make money doing it?
- [15:10]
Zoe Lewis
Well, you don't pick the job as a musician to make money. But what I have learned is how to live small. You can be very rich and have very little. You know, when I lived with the family in Guatemala, they had very little, but they gave me everything. And I came back feeling very full. So then I came to Provincetown and I was lucky enough to find a very cheap rental. An old dilapidated apartment next to Spiritus Pizza. You could see through the floorboards. And here, the upstairs neighbor, there were old oak beams. They say Tennessee Williams used to live there. It was 500 bucks a month. And for 25 years I paid 500 bucks a month. That's what enabled me to do music all those years. My first summer, I had 13 shows a week and I saved all my money. And then I went traveling the world. The best things in life are free and if you just can have enough. In fact, I'm trying to write a song called Enough right now. Because what is enough?
- [16:07]
Razeri
I read that you sold some of your song or licensed some of your song to other musicians.
- [16:13]
Zoe Lewis
No, I've had my songs, some of them used by commercials and films.
- [16:19]
Razeri
That's a money maker.
- [16:20]
Zoe Lewis
That. Yes. Talking about money, that was the best money I ever had made. It was a miracle. And it's funny because I wrote a song called Small Is Tremendous, about the little things in life being much larger. Really, it's my philosophy in life, you know, and that's how Judy Collins found me. I was playing in a music festival in Canada and this lady with, you know, white hair kept walking back and forth while I was playing. And Roxanne was giving me the eye and I didn't know who it was. And the next thing I knew, she had summoned me to her dressing room and was offering me a record deal. And that song, Smallest Tremendous, was on the record, I must say. Wildflower Records, they put the music out because I'm always doing it myself. And I don't necessarily get the songs out there, but that record got out there and it was everywhere. It was heard by an advertising company. They put in the word small in Google and I came up. So small really was tremendous because they. I came home from a bike ride and on my answer machine. In those days, it was an answer machine. They were like, it's Grey's Agency. We're very interested in licensing your song. Can we talk to your lawyer? And I was like, yes, can I get back to you? And then I was like, how do I get a lawyer? Small is tremendous.
- [17:42]
Razeri
So Small was very big.
- [17:43]
Zoe Lewis
Small was very big. And then Pringles potato chips, even put out a mini Pringle. And they contacted me. So, yeah, I had Pringles and I also had TJ Maxx was big labels, small prices, who knows?
- [17:56]
Razeri
That's amazing.
- [17:57]
Zoe Lewis
You don't. You write a song and it has a life of its own. If you can get it out there.
- [18:02]
Razeri
Which song made you the most money?
- [18:03]
Zoe Lewis
I would say Small is tremendous. And also a song I wrote a long time ago called. And I was working on a sheep farm in New Zealand that. And I sat there with all the sheep and there's. I did. I just thought there was like one kind of sheep. There's like many different kinds of sheep with all different kinds of wool and different colors and different black sheep, a white sheep, a curly sheep, a longhorn, a black tongue. And anyway, there was a poster in the barn, and I wrote down all the different sheep and I wrote about these sheep. And Putamaya Records were doing compilations in those days, and they used that song for their Folk Playground compilation. It was played on airplanes. It was for 18 weeks. It was number one on the kids satellite radio. My mom heard it in England in a gardening center. I remember I was in France and I had the Today show asked me to be on it, but I didn't know what the Today show was, and I turned it down because I had a gig in the Provincetown Library. Please. Sorry, that's me. But. But anyway, Sheep did very well for me. And even because. And you know, these kids, they, you know, I got another call not too long ago from Netflix. I wrote eight songs for StoryBots, which is a cartoon on Netflix, a very popular one that made me quite a lot of money too. And that was because the guy, Evan Spiridellis, who made the cartoon, his kids loved my sheep song and they played it in their house. And of course, they've grown up now, but I was on heavy rotation. All my songs in their house, apparently. So when he wanted songwriter, you know, he contacted me. You just never know you never know.
- [19:48]
Razeri
Now I have to ask, and you don't have to answer if you don't want to. When you say it made you a lot of money, is it in the thousands?
- [19:54]
Zoe Lewis
Yeah, I think I got maybe 30,000, just that first commercial. And then another 30,000, I think, for the next. But then, of course, the taxman.
- [20:03]
Razeri
Well, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [20:04]
Zoe Lewis
When I was writing for the Netflix thing, I realized I really enjoyed having a deadline and a mission. It's not something that I've done too much, but when someone says, zoe, write a song about this or do this, I come up with the goods. I love dreaming up things. I think you just. I'm just dreaming all the time about the next thing.
- [20:25]
Razeri
So you always have a song in your head going on?
- [20:27]
Zoe Lewis
Yeah, I always have some sort of. You know, I'm working towards the next thing in my mind. You know, like on the. On the bicycle, you're like, writing a song as you go, or if you're swimming, there's something going on in your.
- [20:39]
Razeri
Head, and then you don't forget it until you get home.
- [20:41]
Zoe Lewis
Nowadays I do. In the old days, I didn't.
- [20:47]
Razeri
Now, you said you traveled to many countries. Over 70 countries. Which one surprised you the most musically?
- [20:53]
Zoe Lewis
That's a great question. One of my favorite countries is Tahiti. I played a cruise in Tahiti, and they play ukulele there, but they have a different style of ukulele, a Tahitian uke with the sound hole in the back. And I came home with one of those, and it is a beautiful sounding instrument. I was in Indonesia, too, and they have the gamelin, and I don't know enough about that kind of music, but to me, Latin music is what I love because it's much freer. And when I was with the Indonesian, it's regimented there. Everyone has their own part. You know, one person would be going dong and another would go diggity bong diggity bong diggity diggity diggity boom digga dig. You know, it's. It is a layer, like an orchestra. It's beautiful, but it's written. There's not a lot of room for freedom, for free expression. That's what I love about jazz and Latin music.
- [21:49]
Razeri
So if you could keep one instrument from audio collection, what instrument would that be?
- [21:54]
Zoe Lewis
Well, the piano is my number one.
- [21:55]
Razeri
Right, but from all the others, I saw you playing all kinds of things.
- [22:00]
Zoe Lewis
Yeah, well, it would probably be the ukulele. Not that I'm that great on it, but it's I could get better on it if I just would keep one. And it's so you can take it anywhere. You can take it on the beach. It's. It's a wonderful. And it doesn't hurt your fingers. Like the guitar.
- [22:17]
Razeri
Like the guitar. Which one song you are never tired of performing?
- [22:22]
Zoe Lewis
These are great questions. Mirab. Well, I do like playing chilli because I don't have to say anything about it.
- [22:30]
Razeri
I love that song, by the way.
- [22:31]
Zoe Lewis
People just move in their seats. I'm all about the story and all about the lyric, but I love to see the music just affect people. As soon as I start doing a Latin groove, people like, sit up and something happens. I mean, it's fascinating to watch people around the world. You know, if I do that, say if I'm playing in a restaurant or something and there's anyone of Latin ethnicity around, they'll suddenly start, you know, salsa ing to the music or joining in. If I do it in England, people sit cross legged and smile at me, but then they'll start trying to let go. I just did it in Nebraska. People had a real hard time clapping on the offbeat. They all clap on the beat. But it's really interesting. So, yeah, Chilli. I always kind of enjoy my Souvenirs song because that's about a dear friend of mine, Ilona. A mellow song. Da da da da da da da da da da da da. It's a bit French, a bit Scott Jopliny. It evokes the past. I have quite a lot of songs about people who are not with me anymore. And when I sing them, there they are on my shoulder.
- [23:38]
Razeri
Oh, fantastic. If your life had a theme song, what would that be?
- [23:42]
Zoe Lewis
Welcome to the circus. Welcome to the circus of life. Grab it by the horns. Welcome to the circus. Yeah, the circus alive. Because we're born and we die. There's a lot of living in between. The other one is don't blink or you'll miss it. It's a crazy old world but we have to to grab every moment. You never know if we're gonna go tomorrow. And we giggle just like school girls to every lamb chop joke. Cause laughter is the medicine and music is the hope. We have to grab every moment. You never know if we're gonna go tomorrow. So be kind and make the most of every second.
- [24:30]
Razeri
All right, and on that note, thank you so much, so much. I really enjoyed it and I was literally dreaming of interviewing you because I love your performances so much. There's so poignant and intelligent and. And the music is fantastic. Thank you so much.
- [24:47]
Zoe Lewis
You are the best, Maran. I'm so happy to be on this podcast.
- [24:51]
Razeri
You know, I'm glad. Thank you. That's a wrap for today. If you have a comment or question or would like us to cover a certain job, please let us know. Visit our website@howmuchcanimake.info we would love to hear from you. And on your way out, don't forget to subscribe and share this episode with anyone who is curious about their next job. See you next time.
- [25:31]
Zoe Lewis
Gonna feel very, very fine.