Ep. 393: Decorating Throwback Special, Pt. 1: Susan Ferrier

Summary

Episode Summary: How to Decorate Ep. 393 – Decorating Throwback Special, Pt. 1: Susan Ferrier

Release Date: December 24, 2024
Guest: Susan Ferrier, Atlanta Interior Designer

---

Introduction

In this special throwback episode of How to Decorate by Ballard Designs, the hosts Caroline, Taryn, and Liz revisit a standout past episode featuring Atlanta-based interior designer Susan Ferrier. As they near their milestone of 400 episodes, the team reflects on the valuable insights Susan shared in Episode 84 and delves deeper into her design philosophies and experiences.

---

Revisiting Episode 84: Susan Ferrier

[00:33 – 05:30]

Caroline introduces the focus of the episode, expressing admiration for Susan Ferrier’s expertise and recounting how her advice played a pivotal role when Caroline purchased her own home in 2019. Taryn and Liz echo Caroline’s enthusiasm, highlighting Susan’s adept use of light and dark contrasts and textures over patterns to create dramatic, yet practical spaces.

Notable Quote:

• Caroline: “Susan Ferrier, she was a great guest. We gotta have her back. Long overdue as a return guest.” [04:35]

---

Susan Ferrier’s Design Philosophy

[05:28 – 16:34]

Susan Ferrier is introduced as an award-winning decorator known for her sensuous, atmospheric interiors. With over 18 years at Bobby McAlpine Interiors, she now leads Susan Ferrier Interiors and co-authored Art of the House with Rizzoli.

Key Points:

• Drama and Texture: Susan emphasizes the use of dark colors and rich textures to add depth and warmth to spaces without relying heavily on patterns.
• Functional Lighting: She advocates for layered lighting—combining dramatic large lamps with task lighting to balance ambience and functionality.

Notable Quotes:

• Susan: “I like texture. I think that the people in the room need to be the pattern.” [06:16]
• Caroline: “It sounds like a science.” [07:36]

---

Starting Her Own Design Firm

[14:10 – 16:34]

Susan discusses her transition from a partner at an established firm to launching her own design company. This move was driven by her compulsion for design and the desire for self-actualization. She highlights the challenges and rewards of maintaining client relationships and ensuring each project reflects the client's personality.

Notable Quote:

• Guest Speaker: “Design for me is a compulsion, and I can't stop myself...” [14:18]

---

Design Strategies and Techniques

[16:34 – 24:40]

Susan delves into her approach to balancing client styles with her own, emphasizing the importance of a thesis statement for each project. She likens her role to that of a visual mathematician, ensuring all elements in a room work harmoniously.

Key Topics:

• Mixing Metals: Susan advises sticking to two metals (e.g., silver and gold) and considering their origins and reflectivity.
• Using Oversized Furniture: In large rooms, she recommends starting with a central, large piece to create a calm focal point before layering smaller items.
• Handling Mid-Century Modern in Classic Homes: She suggests updating proportions to fit larger spaces while maintaining design integrity.

Notable Quotes:

• Guest Speaker: “I refer to myself as a visual mathematician...” [19:55]
• Caroline: “The chair needs to feel good when you sit in it, but it also needs to look good when you walk in the room.” [20:10]

---

Renovating 80s Houses

[24:40 – 44:56]

Addressing the challenge of updating 1980s architecture, Susan shares her experience renovating a Lake Martin home. She emphasizes blending modern furniture with existing architectural features to create a cohesive look. Techniques include:

• Using Dark Paint to Enhance Views: Painting walls in dark hues like Sealskin to draw the eye outward.
• Layering with Textures: Incorporating hide rugs and organic elements to add warmth without clutter.
• Strategic Furniture Placement: Floating furniture away from walls to create inviting conversation areas and maintain the flow.

Notable Quotes:

• Susan: “You can have a place to set down a cocktail or a water.” [09:02]
• Guest Speaker: “It's a little bit of a visual trick...” [42:23]

---

Listener Q&A: Eileen’s Decorating Dilemmas

[45:13 – 67:54]

The latter part of the episode features a detailed Q&A session with listener Eileen, who seeks advice on several decorating issues in her home. Susan provides actionable solutions:

1. Rug Size

   • Issue: Eileen’s rug (8x11) may be too small for her large room.
   • Advice: Pull furniture closer to the rug to make it serve as a centerpiece, ensuring all major pieces rest on it for cohesive grounding.
     Notable Quote:
   • Susan: “The rug is too small... it’s trying to save the lives of the chairs and the sofa.” [53:56]

2. Coffee Table Placement and Selection

   • Issue: Matching wood tables don’t fit well; husband prefers pushing furniture to walls.
   • Advice: Opt for a large, statement coffee table that complements the rug and encourages conversation, possibly relocating chairs for better flow.
     Notable Quote:
   • Guest Speaker: “The cocktail table needs to find another home...” [55:12]

3. Lighting Concerns

   • Issue: Limited and inefficient lighting fixtures.
   • Advice: Replace overhead fixtures with task and ambient lamps, ensuring lighting enhances the room’s functionality and aesthetic. Incorporate floor and table lamps strategically.
     Notable Quote:
   • Guest Speaker: “Put some great lamps in the room...” [60:42]

4. Mirror Style Behind Sofa

   • Issue: Mirror is too small and lacks complementary elements.
   • Advice: Use a larger mirror or artwork to create a statement, ensuring it interacts harmoniously with the window and furniture arrangement.
     Notable Quote:
   • Guest Speaker: “I’m always gonna say bigger. I mean, and then bigger and fewer...” [63:13]

Notable Interaction: Caroline shares a personal story about installing floor outlets, highlighting persistence in achieving design goals despite technical challenges.
Quote:

• Susan: “You love the wire things.” [65:30]

---

Conclusion

The hosts wrap up the episode by expressing gratitude to Susan Ferrier for her invaluable insights. They tease the upcoming episode featuring another favorite guest and encourage listeners to engage via social media and email with their own decorating questions.

Notable Quote:

• Caroline: “Until next time, happy decorating.” [69:30]

---

Key Takeaways

• Texture Over Pattern: Utilizing rich textures can add depth and warmth without relying on patterns that may date a space.
• Layered Lighting: Combining different types of lighting ensures both functionality and ambiance.
• Client-Centric Design: Understanding and reflecting the client’s personality is crucial for creating personalized spaces.
• Strategic Furniture Placement: Thoughtful arrangement enhances the flow and usability of large or uniquely shaped rooms.
• Adaptability in Renovation: Blending modern elements with classic or outdated architecture can rejuvenate spaces without losing their inherent charm.

---

Follow Susan Ferrier:
Visit SusanFerrierInteriors.com to explore her portfolio and design services.

---

This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for both novice and seasoned decorators, offering practical advice backed by professional expertise. Whether tackling large open-plan spaces or breathing new life into 80s homes, Susan Ferrier’s insights provide a valuable roadmap for creating beautiful, functional interiors.

Transcript

[Caroline]

Welcome to how to Decorate from Ballard Designs, a weekly podcast all about the trials and triumphs of decorating and redecorating your home. I'm Caroline. I'm on the marketing team.

[Taryn]

And I'm Taryn and I'm a product designer.

[Liz]

I'm Liz. I head of the creative team.

[Caroline]

We're your hosts. Join the expert team at Ballard Designs for tips, tricks, and tales from interior designers, stylists, and other talents in the design world.

[Taryn]

Plus, we'll answer your decorating dilemmas at the end of each episode.

[Liz]

We love answering your questions, so don't forget to email [e-mail] now, on with the show.

[Caroline]

Okay, so here we are. We are doing some throwback episodes.

[Taryn]

So that is so exciting.

[Caroline]

Getting close to 400. So we had 400 episodes. That sounds a lot of episodes.

[Taryn]

It's a lot of wonderful tips and tricks.

[Caroline]

Yes. So for any of our new listeners, it's a holiday. So we're gonna reshare with you some old episodes. If you're new around here, you might not have gone back and listened to, like, any of the early ones. We have so many. Right. So, you know, kind of going in to this episode, I. I kind of was, you know, scrolling through and. And marked 4 to 5 that I was like, I think these are going to be my favorites. These are the ones that in my memory, I just really enjoyed. But I wanted to go back and listen to them and make sure that the design advice and the tips and the discussion was as insightful as I remember. Just so that people are getting good bang for their buck, right? For the episode, tell you who I listened to, but the one that I was kind of, I'm. I'm picking one that I was a little bit surprised by. I knew I enjoyed meeting this designer, but when I went and listened back, I was like, God, she is brilliant. I just loved this episode so much. It is Atlanta interior designer Susan Ferrier. It was episode number 84. So this was when we were recording in person. She came to our office. Absolutely lovely. I had known of her work for a long time. She was a designer with Bobby McAlpin for a long time, who's also been a guest. And then I think maybe about five years ago, she started her own design firm. And I just. She's such a talent. And I listening back, I knew I enjoyed speaking with her. I knew that I loved her work, like her body of work, but she just is so insightful. And the episode I thought was chock full of great little Nuggets. You know, there were so many takeaways that I had. Even just listening back, I was thinking, like, there were so many things. I think partially the timing. And when we interviewed her, right. I believe it was around spring, summer of 2019, which is right when I bought my house. And so listening back, I was like, oh, I did that. Oh, that was great advice. I ended up doing that. As I was re listening, I was remembering, like, all of this stuff that I did. I didn't necessarily remember that she was the one that planted that seed. But, you know, I put it into practice, I guess. You know, for example, like, we talked for a little while about using your view and putting things in front of the view to draw your eye to the view, which seems, I think, to many counterproductive. Like you're blocking the view, but really, by putting something in front of the view, like a chair, a piece of furniture, a piece of art, you're really drawing the eye to the view, and so you're going to admire the view more. And that was something that I did in our living dining room, for example, when we toured the house, the old owners, they had the sofa facing the window. I have the sofa in the window facing away from the window. But for one, it really just like draws your eye over the window because that's where the sofa is. But also, when you're sitting on the sofa, you're looking out over the view. And so there were just lots of little things. We talked about textures. We talked about light and dark. We talked about metals.

[Taryn]

And she plays a lot with light.

[Liz]

And dark and a ton with texture. Yeah, not a lot of pattern, but.

[Caroline]

A ton of texture and a ton of contrast. And I'm not usually a light and dark. That's not usually what I am drawn to. God, she just is so smart. Anyway, yeah, I just was listening back and was thinking, like, this is so good. I should. I need to listen again. Fourth time.

[Liz]

You know, that is a really fantastic episode, and I think folks are really going to enjoy re listening to that one because there's just so many takeaways, and she's so brilliant. And I feel like her approach to design is almost more like an artist approaching a canvas or a sculpture. She just has such a great sensibility.

[Susan Ferrier]

Totally.

[Caroline]

She really. I think when you look at her portfolio, it is so dramatic.

[Taryn]

Yes. I was gonna say, like, the types.

[Caroline]

Of pieces she's used, it's almost theatrical. But she's so practical. So I highly recommend this episode. I didn't think that it was Gonna be my top. But Susan Ferrier, she was a great guest. We gotta have her back. Long overdue as a return guest.

[Taryn]

And she's a great follow on Instagram. She definitely is always posting her work. So if you're one of those that likes a really focused Instagram of like design, she's a really good one.

[Caroline]

Well, let's let everybody listen to it because I know that after that intro, hopefully they're eager to hear what she has to say. We are so excited to have today award winning decorator Susan Ferrier. She's known for creating sensuous, atmospheric interiors. Your work has been featured in the New York Times, Architectural Digestion, Elle Decor, Veranda House, Beautiful Traditional home, Atlanta Homes and Lifestyle.

[Susan Ferrier]

Anywhere that matters.

[Caroline]

Yes. All of your favorite.

[Taryn]

All the publications.

[Caroline]

All of your favorite publications. And after more than 18 years as a partner at architecture and design firm McAlpine, you started your own design firm, Susan Ferrier Interiors. You're also the co author of a book, Art of the House by Rizzoli. Did I cover everything?

[Guest Speaker]

I think you did. I mean, tell me more.

[Taryn]

I'm awesome.

[Guest Speaker]

You don't have to. And get a chance to listen to somebody talk about you.

[Susan Ferrier]

That's true. We're gonna talk about you all day.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Caroline]

Well, I feel like if anyone were to look at your portfolio, their first thought would be like, drama. Bold scale.

[Susan Ferrier]

I agree.

[Caroline]

Right.

[Susan Ferrier]

Drama. But no, like no pattern. Almost no pattern.

[Guest Speaker]

No. I like texture.

[Susan Ferrier]

Uh huh.

[Guest Speaker]

I like texture. I think that the people in the room need to be the pattern.

[Susan Ferrier]

Ooh.

[Caroline]

Oh, I love that.

[Susan Ferrier]

I like that too.

[Taryn]

Yeah, I noticed you.

[Caroline]

You should be the most interesting thing in your own room. That's true.

[Susan Ferrier]

My poor rooms.

[Guest Speaker]

It depends on what day that's true.

[Susan Ferrier]

And what time of day.

[Guest Speaker]

Only when you entertain, you should be the most interesting thing in your room.

[Susan Ferrier]

Okay.

[Caroline]

All right.

[Guest Speaker]

How's that?

[Caroline]

That's fair to you. Not when you're watching Netflix.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh, no. Then you're very boring.

[Taryn]

Well, I was going to say with the texture. I noticed you had it on. You had like hides on consoles, on walls, on. I felt like everything.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah. In the past and now I like to use a lot of texture in every way. So on trays. I think that people shouldn't be afraid of that. And when you don't use pattern. Cause sometimes I find pattern really can date a room. And you are trying to honor the investment that the client has made. So you want that interior to last 10, 15, 20 years. There's things that I've done In the past that I've revis, and I asked myself, what would I change? Well, when their young children became teenagers and they stained something, that's usually what we address. But, yeah, I'm not afraid of using hides in every application.

[Caroline]

That is a really great strategy, I think.

[Susan Ferrier]

Yeah, that's true.

[Caroline]

And it's kind of amazing that you've revisited things after 20 years and you're like, yep, I was right on. Welcome.

[Taryn]

Solid pet myself.

[Susan Ferrier]

Well, and dark colors. Yeah, I mean, like, either dark walls or a lot of dark fabric covering walls or. I mean, I think that speaks to the drama that Caroline was saying.

[Guest Speaker]

I like to create shadow with light, and because I limit the patterns that I use, and I don't like to use vibrant color all the time, I think that you have to create shadow and light with more than your light fixtures or your lamps. You can do it with reflectivity and the colors that you use or the tones that you use in your. So I do like dark colors. I honestly feel like they make you feel warm, safe, and they're very calming. So I think opposites attract.

[Susan Ferrier]

And then how do you light a room with all that dark? Cause I noticed you do have a lot of lamps.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, I do. I think that every place that you sit in a room, you should be able to read and have a drink. So you should have a place to set down a cocktail or a water. And you should also have a way to read something in front of you. So a lot of times, I think that we use really large lamps for drama, but then we use kind of pharmacy lamps just to light the exact area or the page where you're at.

[Susan Ferrier]

Okay. I saw something in one of your images I've never seen before, which was. It was awesome. Never even thought of it. You had two floor lamps next to a big tub. I thought that was the coolest idea ever.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, you have to see.

[Susan Ferrier]

That's right. You gotta read in the tub.

[Guest Speaker]

A lot of people read in the bathtub. Mm. Oh, I remember that house.

[Susan Ferrier]

Yeah. It was such a great idea. And it just looked so. I don't know. It just made the whole thing look really finished.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, I was thinking about them as soldiers. You know, I felt like they guarded the tub. They were almost in waiting. They were in service of the tub.

[Susan Ferrier]

Do you know me when I'm in the tub?

[Taryn]

Yeah, it's a very. I'm picturing Beauty and the beast almost.

[Guest Speaker]

It's a tub butler.

[Taryn]

I will light your reading.

[Caroline]

It definitely makes it so you would be more likely to Go. It's like a destination, I guess.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah. And also I think that when you're furnishing someone, when you decorate a house, I think that you have to think about architecturally creating a rhythm in every room. And a lot of times a pair of sentries or soldiers in the form of a lamp or a sculpture or a candle, sometimes ground it and give an area more importance. You know, it's like framing those lamps, framed that tub.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Symmetry does feel like really formal, so I guess that's kind of. Yeah.

[Susan Ferrier]

And I noticed a lot of your rooms felt symmetrical, but when you really kind of dug into it, they weren't.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, I feel like you should follow the rules up to a point. And then you need to break something really big because you want to. You want every piece that you do or every home that you work on, you want it to be unique to itself. And so many rooms, I think now look so much alike that I think that we are attracted as human beings to very calm and symmetrical spaces. So I try to follow the rules to a point and keep things balanced. But then at some point you've got to introduce the individuality and the person in the room and break that rule so that it's unique.

[Caroline]

Right.

[Taryn]

And you do. I've noticed too, you speaking to that kind of breaking it up. Even a lot of dining tables or along a bar. You haven't mapped exact chairs or bar stools.

[Guest Speaker]

You know. And honestly, you want it to look like a home with personalities. There's many personalities that exist in a home. And when you put the same chair around a table, then it gets more business like and it's not quite as comfortable. Interesting.

[Caroline]

I'm like, we're all just like slack jawed right here. Because that's genius. I mean, that's true. It does feel like a conference table. Like we're sitting in right now. Right.

[Guest Speaker]

I did glance. I was like, oh, all the same. Curious. Uh, oh.

[Susan Ferrier]

The other thing I noticed that I feel like you love is a C table. Like those tables that are shaped like Cs that like tuck into a chair or tuck into a chaise. I mean, I feel like every room's got one or two and they're all different.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, again, it's back to that thing where I feel like you need to have a place to stick a drink. And they are different. And it's something that's been really discovered in the marketplace for being a great opportunity to save space. And people like to tuck back into a deep sofa and then just imagine having to lean forward to get to the table. It's just too much trouble, you know, you're exhausted. You can't reach my coffee.

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

You know, so I think it's just much more elegant to have the table come to you and float above the arm or the seat. So that is just. If I use those a lot, it's because I feel like they're really practical.

[Susan Ferrier]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Susan Ferrier]

And great textures, too. On a lot of those I was looking at. Beautiful.

[Taryn]

You also used a lot of banquettes. It looked like. Do you love a banquette?

[Susan Ferrier]

We've been studying you.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh, my gosh. I'm getting a little. I'm glad I'm prepared on this.

[Susan Ferrier]

So I know me.

[Guest Speaker]

I do love banquettes for two reasons. Number one, my clients love them. Nine times out of 10, if you said, what's the top five things that you want in your house? Always. It appears a banquette really will be on that list because they're so snuggly and they're cozy, and it's the ultimate have your back up against the wall. So a lot of people have that protected, safe space. But in a practical sense, a banquette will allow you to put more people at a table because you don't have to have that three feet of circulation space behind the chair so you can.

[Susan Ferrier]

Mush it up closer.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah. So it's just. I wanna say it's a function of greed. You want to be able to get as many people as possible around your table.

[Taryn]

Oh, and the way you've curved the backs and some of the custom upholstery you've done, you can tell, like, you know, it fits the space and the architecture and changes for that room. Yeah.

[Susan Ferrier]

Yeah. Good job.

[Caroline]

Great job. I feel like we should back up a little bit.

[Susan Ferrier]

Okay.

[Guest Speaker]

Sorry.

[Caroline]

And no, no. I think it's fun to dive.

[Guest Speaker]

Right.

[Caroline]

I want to know about how you sort of got into business and about how, how, and why you decided to start your own firm. Because I feel like that it's a big step. Must have been a big change.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, it was. Design for me is a compulsion, and I can't stop myself. So how I got into the business was I just failed at everything else until I was doing exactly what I wanted to do, and then I conveniently started to succeed. So you can't stop what moves you. And I will say that design for me is all consuming. I think a lot of designers that do this recognize that they're compulsive about. About the need.

[Susan Ferrier]

I just want to point out that you're arranging the paper on the table in a very certain way while you're talking about being compulsive.

[Guest Speaker]

I love it. Sorry I'm ocd, but I just don't think that I could stop myself. And I tried to do other things, much more lucrative things, but I just wasn't happy. So as far as starting my own firm, I started my own firm about a year ago, and it just seemed like the natural next step. Now, you've been doing this for so long, and I think as women, we wanna find a way to express ourselves and we'd like to have our voices heard. And I felt like it was just time. And in fact, I thought I was late. So, you know, you're always busy taking care of people and taking care of a client or your staff or somebody. And the decision to start my own firm was kind of to address myself. And, you know, it's just one more step in that long road of self actualization. You know, why am I on this planet? Why am I here? How can I be the best me that I can be? And I can say, as a woman of a certain age, 32. Yeah. Thank you. I think that that was in the forefront of my mind and I actually really enjoyed it. It's been great.

[Susan Ferrier]

Yeah. How has life changed since you now have your own firm? More stress, less stressful, Same stress.

[Guest Speaker]

You know, I don't. I think the stress shifts a little bit, but it's the same amount of stress. I've always been really deeply involved in every aspect of it, so it's the same amount of stress. Yeah.

[Susan Ferrier]

Did you steal a bunch of clients? No, just kidding.

[Guest Speaker]

No, they were my clients.

[Susan Ferrier]

Okay. It's like lawyers.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Susan Ferrier]

So when a lawyer leaves a firm, they get to take their clients. And so same with designers.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah. Well, you have the relationship with that person. When you design for somebody, it's really personal. And you have conversations monthly, weekly, some daily. It all depends on what the job requires. And so those relationships are at the forefront. And that's why the design is good. And the design looks like the person that lives in the house. And that's really important. When you look at some of the things that I've done over the years, you know, there might be a common feeling, there might be some techniques that you can recognize that you've been sharing with me, that you've seen in my work. But every house that I do has to look like the people or the couple that lives there. And they're the muse.

[Caroline]

How do you get inspired by it? Is There ever a time where you're like, I just can't grab onto something about this couple or this homeowner, or is it easy? You just go in there and you get to know them.

[Guest Speaker]

You have to kind of dig in. You know, I feel like I'm a really highly social person. So you just have to keep trying, and you have to be really persistent. And you'll find that when you ask somebody about the themselves, they want to share and talk about what they like, what they're attracted to. I mean, look at me right now. You're asking me about me, and I'm, oh, I'd be more than happy to talk about me. I think you'll find that's human nature.

[Caroline]

Right.

[Taryn]

How do you balance your client with your sense of style that they've hired?

[Guest Speaker]

You know, that is a good word, balance. And it's a negotiation. And you have to remember that you're the expert, and I have to remember that I'm the expert, and there was something in my work that they recognized and they want. So I feel it's really important to establish what I call a thesis statement or the presentation. And then it's my job to stick to it. So it's a constant conversation going back and forth, reminding people of why, what they were attracted to, why they called me, because they're afraid of it. Well, you know, putting together a room, a successful room, is a lot more difficult and a lot more technical than people think. And there's a ton of people out there that have really good taste and are really exposed. Everybody can be a great shopper, but it's about the relationships of the pieces that you put in that room and how they react to each other. That is really what the designer is an expert at. And I think we've all seen rooms where that piece is beautiful and this piece is gorgeous, but for some reason, they detract from each other, and they don't kind of add to the full feeling or beauty of the room. So it's kind of like, you know, I refer to myself as a visual mathematician. You know, I dress chair heights, table heights, lighting levels. All those things need to be placed in a rhythm that moves your eye through the room at a pace that's comfortable, soothing, and beautiful. And I think that's where elegance comes from.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Well, I would also imagine that a beautiful chair is all well and good, but if it's not in the right place or if it's not laid out properly, then it doesn't work, it doesn't look beautiful. Because it's not functioning right.

[Guest Speaker]

The chair needs to feel good when you sit in it, but it also needs to look good when you walk in the room. Because these are props. You know, 90% of the time when we walk through our house, most of the things are props and we only get to really use them or sit in them a really small percentage of their lifespan. One of the things I like to tell people is, or I like to show people and then execute is to be bold. Where you need to be bold and not be afraid. So the things that people think are risky for me are just. Are not risky at all. It'd be risky not to do it because then when you walk in the room, you're going to be what is that big hole over there in that area? Nothing's filling it. And then somebody puts something tragic in the space that isn't, you know, that doesn't quite feed, you know, it doesn't quite meet the needs, you know, of your eye when you walk in.

[Susan Ferrier]

It sounds like a science.

[Taryn]

Well, you kind of intimidated.

[Guest Speaker]

I am sciencey. I am a nerd.

[Taryn]

She's a rule follower.

[Susan Ferrier]

That's right. You told us you're a rule follower.

[Guest Speaker]

I mean, I do follow rules to a point.

[Susan Ferrier]

And then you break them.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, then you have to. You just get disgusted and have to.

[Caroline]

What rules should we all be following?

[Guest Speaker]

The first rule is to always hire an interior designer.

[Susan Ferrier]

There you go.

[Caroline]

All right, done. We're hiring you.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah. You have to have an expert and you have to listen to them. I also think it's important for a rule in a room is to think about how you're going to live in it. People really enjoy rooms that they spend a lot of time in. And you have to make sure that when you program the space that you are meeting the needs of the purpose of the room and also paying attention to the architecture. Do you know, I. Some of the biggest struggles are you buy, you know, a classic home in classical style and then you want to introduce all kinds of furniture and applications that maybe would better be suited for like an art deco building or you have to be really careful with mid century modern. You have to pay attention to the space that you're investing in. You know, it's one of those things where, you know, you want to multiply the effects of the architecture and you want to multiply the effects of your interiors. And the best way to do that is if they are compatible and they get along.

[Taryn]

Are there ways that someone like me could update the space so that I could fit so say I bought a, you know, a home, like you said, a very classic architectural home. And then I'm more mid. I'd say my style is mid century.

[Guest Speaker]

Right.

[Taryn]

How do you work with someone?

[Susan Ferrier]

You bought the wrong house.

[Taryn]

Do I buy a new house?

[Susan Ferrier]

Yes.

[Taryn]

What if the layout's great?

[Caroline]

What if the. I don't think she really feels that way.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, I can answer your question. I think that if you have classic proportions in your house and you are a lover of mid century, then you need to find some new design. Some of these current designers that are doing stylistically mid century modern, but they're doing it in far greater scale than the original pieces were. The original pieces were designed for much smaller spaces with lower ceilings. So now great furniture lighting designers right now are kind of beefing up some of those proportions so that they look really good in a larger room with a higher ceiling. That's great.

[Caroline]

That's great. Incense. Yeah. Well, I think we can all think of like homes that we've been to or spaces that we've been in where the, you know, they tried to fit like a farmhouse kitchen into a mid century modern house. And you're like, why is there an apron sink here? Or, you know, I don't know. I'm sure there's.

[Guest Speaker]

I was just talking about examples. I was just talking to a client about that who has a 1925 house that we're renovating up in Connecticut. And I shared. You. You really can't put the rough hewn beams in the ceiling in this house because everybody is going to know. Then you're advertising that it's added on, you know, so you have to. Yes, you can do something to the ceiling and you can have beams, but maybe you should paint them. So, yeah, you have to know. It's just like when women dress. You can't wear something that's unattractive on you, no matter how much you love it on that magazine page.

[Susan Ferrier]

That's true.

[Guest Speaker]

It is exactly how you dress. You need to wear your rooms and they need to suit your lifestyle. That's super important.

[Caroline]

And I guess to that point, like, you could. You could pull out maybe some bell bottoms or something from a past inspired by the past, but you would never, like, wear it in totality of how you wore it then. You know what I mean?

[Susan Ferrier]

You would sort of like, you know, you only wear bell bottoms if you have a certain shape.

[Caroline]

Right? No, true.

[Susan Ferrier]

That's right.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, exactly.

[Susan Ferrier]

It doesn't.

[Guest Speaker]

Or if you're needing. Right. Because then you.

[Susan Ferrier]

And then maybe if you're like, if you're 4ft tall, maybe you wear a flared arm instead of wearing a bell bottom pant. You are exactly a vibe, but it's just a different point of view.

[Guest Speaker]

Right. And that's the way people look put together, you know, when they think about their form and what they're putting on it. Same thing with a room.

[Caroline]

I feel like we can all just end the episode here because.

[Susan Ferrier]

Done well, I love that question.

[Taryn]

I have more questions because I just feel like, you know, when you're talking to experts, you want to ask all the dumb questions. I have.

[Guest Speaker]

I love dumb questions.

[Taryn]

Okay, well, this kind of goes off of what you just said, which, again, is taking, you know, being realistic with your space and realizing what you have. But have you. Are there certain style kitchens you see on the trend right now or that you're always gravitating to, or does it change job by job?

[Guest Speaker]

It changes job by job. I will honestly tell you, although I love a white kitchen, I would like to see a little bit. I would like to see kitchens addressed in a more dynamic way. Yes. Karen's raising her hands.

[Susan Ferrier]

Very favorite things that I saw in your portfolio. And I don't know if it's something that you typically do in kitchens, but it was. It really, to me, brought the kitchen to life. It was a. It was an island, and it was a very. I felt like it was a very sleek kitchen with kind of sleek, dark hardware. I mean, dark cabinets and maybe white countertop, I can't remember exactly. But at the end of this floating island, you had put this antique, not really a demi loon, but, you know, this piece of furniture flush up at the end of the island. And I was just like, oh, my God, that's brilliant. Because it's another little surface. But mostly it's the juxtaposition of those styles and putting something alive in a kitchen, which is. To me, cabinets are so sort of like industrial feeling. Even if they're, you know, very traditional, they're. They're modular, sort of. And that.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, I know the kitchen. It was a waterfall countertop. The marble went down the side, which made the perfect backdrop for something organic. And I believe it was an Asian table. And it had all these really strong, feminine curves in the legs, and it created a beautiful silhouette against that stone. So the juxtaposition of something clean and modern was something that obviously had some age on it and was very organic, was irresistible to me. That it was a functional surface, I think, made it even better and was how I could talk Them into it.

[Susan Ferrier]

Right.

[Guest Speaker]

But I think that that's really important with all. You see waterfalls all the time with stone, and I think they're really great. I have them in my own kitch, but on one side, I've stacked old suitcases and have a sculpture at the end. I don't want to miss an opportunity.

[Caroline]

Well, I think that's a reoccurring theme in your work. Sleekness and modern versus this, like, patinaed, crackling, old, like, architectural sort of stuff. What's the word I'm thinking of, like, well, it.

[Guest Speaker]

Crusty. I mean, I like to use something that looks like it has a history and a story to tell. So things are really crusty, and they look like they had. They used to have a better life than they have now, you know, so almost a piece of furniture or an ornament that looks like it's fallen. Do you know what I mean? Fallen in stature. And now it's become casual again, and it's great to clean it up with crisp linen, white stone. I feel like when you walk into a space, it would be really nice if it provoked thought as well as the admiration for beauty. I think that when you see a couple things together, I think it's great to challenge the way you normally think about something so that you become intellectually stimulated and not just visually stimulated.

[Caroline]

Drop the mic.

[Taryn]

As I sit here and think I had a question that goes along with that kind of talking about that bringing the aged into the area. I know you're also a lover of shiny things.

[Guest Speaker]

I love shiny things.

[Taryn]

So what if I love shiny and I don't want to overdo shiny because you do a great job with balance. How do I not overdo my shiny obsession?

[Guest Speaker]

Well, shiny, first of all, you can use as much shining as you like. You just have to make sure that it is paired and matched, like gesture for gesture, note for note with something that absorbs the light as well. So it's, again, you want the energy being kind of absorbed in, but then also reflecting out. I feel like, like jewelry. Most people don't wear shiny clothes from top to bottom, but they accentuate with shine in their jewelry. So if you want to wear a lot of jewelry, that's great. I obviously like to wear a lot of jewelry, but I'm also wearing a black matte texture, so they both play off each other.

[Taryn]

Back to fashion. Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

But you can't be gratuitous with your shine. That's very hard.

[Susan Ferrier]

Right. Then you're Vegas.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And it seems like if everything's shiny, then you're one. Your earrings don't stand out or your whatever, you know, light fixture or whatever.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, whenever you have a dinner party, I always think about who I'm inviting and how they're going to interact. Because I think that makes for a really successful dinner party. And some people are shiny things and other people absorb things. So you have to have a good combination of more social people and people that really want to listen and absorb.

[Susan Ferrier]

That's true. Cause if they're all talkers, it gets loud. Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

I mean, and then you don't hear anything.

[Susan Ferrier]

And no one's listening to anyone.

[Guest Speaker]

No, no. It hurts my ears.

[Taryn]

Karen only invites Matt people to her parties.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh, you do? Kidding.

[Taryn]

No, no. She throws good parties.

[Caroline]

It was a joke.

[Guest Speaker]

I always think about that. I always think about who's gonna sit next to who. Who is gonna pull another person out of their shell. You know, everybody has hidden stores within them and you wanna make sure that you. That they can share what's inside them. Because, you know, we all socialize with the same people over and over again. We've got to start looking at them in different ways.

[Susan Ferrier]

That's true.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

Okay. You talked too about again, back to the shiny and then mixing metals. And you said. I've read somewhere that you love mixing metals.

[Guest Speaker]

I do.

[Taryn]

Are there any rules there?

[Guest Speaker]

I think that you need to kind of stick to two metals. Just say silver and gold and pewter, which is a derivative of silver. So I think that when you're mixing metals, there are really shiny metals and then there are metals that look like you've just dug them out of the earth. So I think that you need to. Yes, I like the shiny metals, but also think about their origin. So there's different levels of reflectivity in metals that also have to be paid attention to. I also like oil rubbed bronzes. Goes with everything. But unlikered brass right now is really popular and I love it because it ages and it changes. So that is a metal that you can introduce into almost any space.

[Susan Ferrier]

Do you feel like that's going to be going out of style?

[Guest Speaker]

Everybody has been saying that.

[Susan Ferrier]

Everyone asked me and I'm like, it's just beautiful.

[Taryn]

People do keep questioning it.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, they do keep questioning it. But when was the last time that it was in style and it was a really shiny brass? Like when it was the 80s?

[Susan Ferrier]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

Is that possible?

[Susan Ferrier]

It was sort of lacquered?

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, yeah, it was lacquered. But now it's come back in a way that it's growing and changing and evolving, just like us.

[Taryn]

Yes. How we used brass in the 80s versus how we use brass now.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, yeah, I think that that's something to consider because it used to. And before the 80s, then when was it used? You know? So I think that what you need to do is consider the fact that you can have it in your home. And if it ages properly, it will never go out of style.

[Caroline]

But things are gonna go out of style. Like, I feel like people really fixate on, like, what is the thing that I need to avoid.

[Susan Ferrier]

Because it won't be trendy.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Susan Ferrier]

But if it's beautiful design, you don't have to worry.

[Guest Speaker]

I agree with you. You don't wanna be. You don't want someone to look at a room you did and say. And give you the date in which you did that. So, I mean. And it's a really good investment if you are. And that's why I like to couple the classic with the edgy or the more modern. Because that's a way to fight the trend that goes in and out of style. And if their relationships are good, then they also don't go in and out of style. So that is a real concern for people that do what I do for a living. Cause you're always getting the new. This is the new light fixture. This is the new chair. It's like, this is the new drug. Try it. But it's all in how you use it. And it's really. It's wasteful to do an environment that is so of that day that, you know, the next year you're going to be tired of it.

[Caroline]

So would you. I mean, because I guess when I think of, like, a house that you walk in and you're like, oh, boy, that was like 1990 or whatever with the. I guess maybe the, like, unlacquered brass was kind of thin too. But it's like. It's that. It's that finish on every single thing. So maybe what you're saying about mixing, like, what finishes you're doing helps to. You know, you've walked into that house, that's like. It's the same faucet on and handles and cabinet knobs and trim around the shower door, it's literally all the same. It's all matching. So then it really does. There's no dimension at all. So maybe that's just one way that people can avoid it by not, like, universally using something across their whole house.

[Guest Speaker]

The whole house, you know, everything has to be used sparingly.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

I think just a lot of different things. All the things.

[Susan Ferrier]

All the things.

[Taryn]

One of each. Of all the things.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, you know, you were talking about decorating and furnishings, but one of the things I'm finding is I am being asked to help houses that were built in the 80s because there's that look that maybe wasn't excellent, you know? Hey, now. No, no, no, no.

[Caroline]

I'm totally confused.

[Taryn]

Oh, we all know.

[Guest Speaker]

No, I know. And that is always a challenge. You know, great civilizations are always born out of a need. And so hopefully people will take some of those houses that were built then and they'll do some really great things.

[Susan Ferrier]

But what are they doing? What can we do to an 80s house?

[Guest Speaker]

Well, I just finished work on a house that was built in the 80s on Lake Martin, and it's gonna be.

[Caroline]

On the COVID of Atlanta Homes and Lifestyle.

[Susan Ferrier]

I love Lake Martin.

[Caroline]

If you wanna go pick that up.

[Guest Speaker]

Thank you for saying something. It is. I mean, it's absolutely. You know, when I first walked into the house, I was like, oh, what am I gonna do? So I started paying attention to. I worked with the. With the homeowner and the architect, and I started paying attention to the outside, bringing the environment into the house. There are certain things that you can do, even with paint, to pull things into shadow that maybe weren't your favorite feature. I did that at Kips Bay. When I did it last year, I walked into a room that was basically a very unattractive box. And I thought, well, I'm gonna paint it all dark green so that it recedes. And everything I put in that room was white or shiny. And so you didn't even notice those walls.

[Taryn]

And lots of drapery. Was that the room with lots of draper?

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, there were two walls of drapery.

[Susan Ferrier]

And then, like, all the prints, Right? Like a bazillion.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, those. They were archaeological prints.

[Taryn]

Oh, yeah. Cause. And you didn't even. I don't even know what the wall looked like. I can't tell you.

[Caroline]

I looked at the picture. Proof that it worked.

[Guest Speaker]

There's more than one way to skin.

[Taryn]

A cat, so that's a great idea. Okay, so kind of even bring those into the shadows and then lighten up with your actual.

[Caroline]

Well, Taryn, I feel like that's sort of what you did, maybe unknowingly, in your brown den.

[Susan Ferrier]

Old den with a brown leather sofa and a brown dog. So she didn't paint the dog. She painted the paneling.

[Taryn]

I painted everything I could.

[Susan Ferrier]

Peacock blue.

[Guest Speaker]

I think that sounds fantastic. I love painting paneling. When was the paneling originally installed 60s. I really love painting the paneling.

[Taryn]

You can imagine what it was.

[Caroline]

And then it's nice brown.

[Guest Speaker]

Yes, I can. You don't want to walk into a room and disappear, Right?

[Taryn]

Well, that's what the dog was doing.

[Guest Speaker]

Yes.

[Caroline]

Camo.

[Taryn]

No, but I. That's a great idea. Just how to hide those.

[Caroline]

Well, I want to talk more about this house on Lake Martin, because I actually, when I saw the exterior, I think there was one shot of like. I don't think it was a pool, but it looked sort of like a pool. But it was actually the dock.

[Taryn]

It was an infinity pool, wasn't it?

[Guest Speaker]

It's an infinity pool.

[Caroline]

Oh, okay.

[Taryn]

Well, it looked like it was part of the light.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah. Well, and it does. Even when you're in the house. And the funny thing is the house has got this. It's on this point. And when you walk into the main room of the house, you look like you could continue walking right into the water of the lake. And the pool is designed so that it spills out more tears to spill out into the lake. I don't want to get anybody in trouble. Well, thank you. Thank you.

[Caroline]

Well, I love the exterior, and I know that that's post.

[Guest Speaker]

Right.

[Caroline]

Renovation, but, like, what about an 80s house like that should we salvage and like, is good. And what maybe is one of the parts that we camouflage?

[Guest Speaker]

Well, one of the things that I. One of the things that I thought about that you have to think about what an 80s house, what are its positive attributes? It really absorbs modern furniture really well. It really does. It looks so good with a more contemporary aesthetic introduced to it. I mean, I hope that everyone will see that when they see the magazine article. But honestly, I was so excited because I could do something that most of my clients don't come to me for. I loved that project. I loved that project. It was a play of light and shadow. It brought the outside in. And I could use forms in strict rhythm, but with lines that I don't think that I'm normally known for. So it was like curvilinear. Well, it was just modern. I used furniture manufacturers that I had never used before because this furniture happened to look really great in that house. Some houses, you walk a piece of furniture in it and it spits it right out. It just doesn't go. But this house, all those pieces of furniture that I've always wanted to use because they're super comfortable, and I really respect the way they're made and how they got to be, you know, what they are. And you put them in this house, and it was a love affair. I really. I really was so attracted to it. I mean, you know that you've been successful if you think to yourself, well, I want a house like this. And that was an 80s house?

[Caroline]

Yes. Never had that thought occurred to you, I'm dying for an 80s house now?

[Taryn]

Well, I liked that the article spoke to the. Again, you thinking through your visual line, too, you know, to speak to scale and balance is you wanna see the lake. So you made sure the scale of the furniture and you're visually. It was not in the way of you seeing the lake. Is that.

[Guest Speaker]

Yes. I wanted to make sure that you could look over it and through it. When you're in that main living room, you feel like you are on a ship on a boat, because the water appears to come right up to the living room. So it's really. It's kind of like. It's a little bit of a visual trick. But I also painted that entire room out very dark. It's a really dark bronze color. And the reason why we did that was to carry your eye out into the water. White will stop your eye and keep you in the room, but a darker color will kind of release you and let you see the green or the blue beyond.

[Susan Ferrier]

Interesting. I never would have thought of that again.

[Guest Speaker]

It's a little science.

[Susan Ferrier]

Yeah. You think lighthouse? I'd want it to be light, but that's so smart.

[Taryn]

What's the name of the color on the walls?

[Guest Speaker]

I think sealskin.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Guest Speaker]

Sherman Williams. I think it's sealskin, but there's other good colors. Black fox, Sealskin. I gotta tell you, when we walked through that house for the first time with the architect David Baker, we walked through the house, and I was like, oh, oh.

[Caroline]

Oh, no.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh, no.

[Taryn]

Did the architect say oh, no as well?

[Guest Speaker]

Well, no, he was. He knew.

[Taryn]

He knew.

[Guest Speaker]

You know what? When you're working with somebody that's really. You really want to work with somebody that really knows what they're doing, and he knew that he could only do so much, and then we had to decorate our way out of it. I mean, honestly, I hate to say it. It's true. And I believe he probably shared that with our client. He said, you know, I can only go so far. And the house is really great because there is a living space as well as a bedroom for each of the two children and for the parents. So it's almost as if they're three separate apartments that connect to the one separate space, you know, and two guest rooms. So. So the space that you had was really fantastic for a family that was gonna pretty soon have two teenagers in it. Always be entertaining in the house. So I understood why we were keeping the house because you really couldn't beat the programming of it. And its position on that point was incredible.

[Caroline]

It was spectacular. I mean, truly, it was like. Well, it's funny, Karen, that you said you think of a lake and you want light and bright, but when I think of the lake, I think of, like, that dark lake water. It's like, very moody. And like, I think of, like, winter on a lake. I don't know why, but you should.

[Guest Speaker]

Go to Lake Martin right now in the spring. It is so beautiful. It is one of the most beautiful lakes I've ever seen in my life. And, in fact, I shouldn't even have said its name.

[Susan Ferrier]

Yeah, don't go lake or buy any property there.

[Guest Speaker]

No, but it was really very soothing. I do love it there. And while I'm thinking of it, I do want to add one more point. With the contemporary furniture in an 80s house, we went to town on texture, and that's how we made it feel really warm and comfortable. We put a lot of hide rugs down and made sure that there was fuzzy and organic things everywhere.

[Caroline]

Do you like to put. Speaking to your point about being able to see through things, do you like to put furniture in front of a window in that type of scenario where you're trying to draw your eye out to the lake? Or do you. How do you.

[Guest Speaker]

I do.

[Caroline]

Lay out a room.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah. I do like to put things in front of windows. If you put something in front of a window, you're compelling your eye to go to that thing, but then to the right of it, you have an entire expanse where you see through the window. I think that it shows. People are always talking about preserving a view. Well, once you've seen the view, once you keep it in your head, and you're going to see that view when you walk through that house all the time, don't underestimate what your mind can carry with you. And if you go into a house that doesn't put anything in front of windows at all, doesn't challenge the view at all, doesn't meet. It isn't a partner with it, it gets really weak and thin.

[Caroline]

Okay, so if we have a living room, say, that has a big bank of windows, we shouldn't necessarily situate the sofa to look at the view. We should maybe be. Is that kind of what you're saying?

[Guest Speaker]

Well, I think that you can block portions of the view.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Guest Speaker]

It all depends on how you're gonna socialize and use the space. We have to remember that, yes, we love the view, but that's not. The only thing you're gonna be doing in that room is looking at the view. It's really important. And people should really pay to the human factor when they're working on a house and how people are gonna live in that house and enjoy it and function in every one of those rooms. So it's really just a question of if there's enough seating, if it's gonna create conversation spaces. I really feel that nothing is so precious. You can think about it like this. I have just spent a lot of your money, and I have really beautifully paneled this entire wall. And it is stunning. And then you walk in and you look at the wall and you think, oh, that's really great. And it's got a great finish on it. And then I go and I hang a huge piece of art on it. And people say, don't cover up that wall. And I'm thinking, I just made that wall better. It is now a host. So I think that it's really important that you can layer those. Let it go, forgive yourself, Layer the excellence one on top of the other.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Guest Speaker]

You know, Yeah, I think that that makes sense. If not, it's going to get boring.

[Susan Ferrier]

Right.

[Guest Speaker]

You know, you're just going to be there in another year.

[Susan Ferrier]

You're going to be boring. It highlights the view instead of covering the view because it just grabs your eye and pulls it over there.

[Guest Speaker]

And sometimes I like to hang really shapely things on square windows.

[Susan Ferrier]

Like, she acted out a circle with.

[Caroline]

Her hand, like a mirror, a sculpture of architectural little piece or something.

[Susan Ferrier]

Yeah, I just have a mirror hanging on one of my windows. And I realized the other day I was out on the deck looking in, and it has a price tag on the back.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh, no.

[Susan Ferrier]

Well. And it's been on there for, like, four years.

[Guest Speaker]

You should have felted the back.

[Susan Ferrier]

I should have.

[Guest Speaker]

Then you would have noticed that price tag.

[Susan Ferrier]

Oh, well, I'll do that next. So is that what you do?

[Caroline]

Like, if you are going to hang a painting or something on a window, how do you treat the back?

[Guest Speaker]

Well, I usually put a piece of felt on it, Usually a dark piece of felt.

[Susan Ferrier]

Okay.

[Guest Speaker]

You know, or something like that. Because I've looked into, you know, I've looked into a lot of windows, stuff, creepers. Sometimes you get bored. You want to drive around and look in people's windows and that cleans up that elevation, makes it go away.

[Caroline]

Makes sense.

[Susan Ferrier]

One thing I want to add.

[Caroline]

It's so true.

[Susan Ferrier]

So a lot of the rooms and homes you do are large. A lot of the rooms are large. Several seating areas, you know, that kind of thing. And I think many homes these days, you're nodding hesitantly. Are big, a lot of square footage, and they're open plans, and people have no idea how to arrange the furniture in them. You know, they're pushing it all up against the wall or. You know what I'm saying?

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Susan Ferrier]

How do we fill up really large rooms? Because your rooms, even though they're dramatic and wonderful scale, they don't feel intimidating, they don't feel cavernous. They feel really like, I just want to get in there and sit down and read my book.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, again, I'm always paying attention to the architecture. And then you go from the architecture to the people in the room. And what's in between is the decorating and the pieces of furniture you put in there. I don't necessarily. Sometimes, like, with a banquette, you can push something up against a wall. But for the most part, I really don't like doing that. Nobody likes to feel cornered. I start in the center of the room, and I place the furniture around the center of the room where it makes the most human sense to interact. And then I go around then the back of those pieces and I fill in. Because that can create, you know, a very deep console behind a sofa that's floating in the middle of the room is now a desk or a chair and a desk there are just. Or a game table. So I think that it's important to start at the center, arm's length to some of these chairs so that you can have conversations and then come around. You know, I am gonna tell you that space planning for me and drawing a furniture plan is one of the most rewarding things that I do and the most important step in my process. That is really where it starts. That is the foundation of, I think, creating a really good interior. People need to draw it out. If you draw it and it works and it fits, then in real life, you don't have to worry about it. If I had a dollar for every time someone said to me, this all is not gonna fit in the room. And I'm like, yes, it's going to fit because I drew it. So I think that drawing is really important.

[Caroline]

I wanna ask the reverse question from what Karen asked, because there were certain rooms or spaces in your portfolio that you could tell were maybe smaller Scale. Not the scale that Karen was talking about, but you still had very large furniture pieces in them or, you know, maybe a huge accessory that. So I'm curious how to use oversized pieces in a small home and creating a space that doesn't feel too cluttered but still feels cozy.

[Guest Speaker]

I think that you need to use a few very large pieces in a smaller room because it almost creates this ohm effect. It calms the space down, and then you can start introducing the smaller pieces. And I think that if you have a really small room, I'm going to say, let's put one really big thing in it, and then everything else is in service to that one really big thing. You see that a lot in restaurant design. You have a banquette in the corner with a table and then little chairs around it. If you were to just wall that off, that would be a really small room. But everybody wants to be there because it's cozy, you know? And I can say in my own home, which was a 1925 Tudor, the rooms aren't as generous in size as they are for my clients, because everybody goes to that open plan right now. So there are a lot more larger rooms, but they serve more than one function.

[Susan Ferrier]

So divide them up mentally.

[Guest Speaker]

So you have to divide it up mentally. Like drop those imagined walls in.

[Susan Ferrier]

Ah, that makes sense.

[Caroline]

That makes a lot of sense.

[Taryn]

It's such a great dilemma this week. I love the images. It explains what's going on. And this one is from Eileen.

[Susan Ferrier]

Come on, Eileen.

[Caroline]

That's probably like, 80s. This is 80s themed. That's right.

[Taryn]

All right.

[Caroline]

Oh, gosh.

[Guest Speaker]

I'll probably never get a 80s house again.

[Taryn]

All right. Eileen writes and says, hi, all. I've been listening to the podcast almost since the very beginning, and I really enjoy it, but really struggle with decorating and haven't been brave enough to send photos. Nevertheless, although I would still rather not be published, I need help with several things and would love to get your thoughts. And she's very lucky.

[Susan Ferrier]

The house is cute.

[Caroline]

Yes, I know.

[Taryn]

It is a very cute home. And to have. I'm sure I should.

[Susan Ferrier]

She has four bullet questions. Okay. Okay.

[Taryn]

Her first is, is my rug too small? It's about 8 by 11, and the room is about 15 and a half to 19ft. If too small, would you layer it over seagrass? Replace it with a seagrass? I tend to like beachy looks. Also, I know you have said seagrass is forgiving of spills, but I need a rug that will hold up under the paws. Toenails of three Dogs.

[Susan Ferrier]

Okay, let's answer that one question first.

[Taryn]

What do you think about her rug?

[Guest Speaker]

The rug is too small. Oh, but it isn't small if you turn it in the other direction and you run it only in a portion of the room that captures the furniture. So she pulls her chairs and her sofa closer to each other so that you can actually have a conversation from one to the other. It's not such a great leap. Then all of a sudden, that rug. The rug is an island, and it's trying to save the lives of the chairs and the sofa. So they need to be pulled in so that they're resting on the rug, and there can be space behind, like, for instance, the sofa, like I talked about. And the chairs that will open up the space by those windows.

[Susan Ferrier]

Yeah, she has the. You could not reach the coffee table if you were sitting in those chairs. Yeah. And even the sofa could be closer to the coffee table. You know what I mean? Like, just enough room for your knees, you know?

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, I'm about this much. What is this, 15 inches?

[Susan Ferrier]

Yeah, I'd say 15.

[Guest Speaker]

Anywhere from 15, 18, maybe 12 if it's a really tight room. Just enough to kind of walk by and sit down. But remember, the table is in service to you. The table is. It's not just to hold coffee table books. It is so that you can put something down on it. It is supposed to be a functional piece of furniture, and we can make this cocktail table much more functional by having it engage in a relationship with the sofa and the chairs.

[Susan Ferrier]

Right.

[Taryn]

And she kind of speaks that in our next bullet point, which says, I have 80s matching wood tables, and I've been looking and looking for a coffee table. What width and shape? There is approximately six and a half feet between sofa and chairs where they sit in the photos. I could pull the furniture closer together, but my husband hates that we do not take advantage of the size of the room. He would like to shove everything to the walls and windows.

[Susan Ferrier]

That's funny that he thinks it's wasted the best painting. Like, why does he think it's wasting the room?

[Caroline]

I feel like we need to.

[Guest Speaker]

He can get more out of this room. Yeah. You know, I used to design for attorneys and hallways. I mean, and so I think of space as billable square footage. And right now, he could get a lot more billable square footage out of this room if he pulled everything together and then brought more things into the room to make it feel a little bit more layered and closer.

[Susan Ferrier]

I emailed Eileen back after she sent us this, and Said, eileen, is this room. Do you have to pass through this room to get to other rooms? And she said, yes. So like you're saying they need to be able to walk behind the sofa instead of walking through the middle of the furniture arrangement, which is how they have it set up now. Which is why I think she has it so far apart, because she wants to be able to walk through it like. No, mushle that together and walk behind it to get.

[Caroline]

Could she would.

[Susan Ferrier]

From this end, this whatever, down to the other end.

[Guest Speaker]

I think that she talked about cocktail tables, and she needs to put a cocktail table that goes all the way to the floor. Her chairs and her sofa are all on legs, so everything in this room is on legs, and nothing's grounding it to that rug. So I would. I'm never a fan of matching cocktail tables with end tables. So there just. There needs to be. I think the cocktail table needs to find another home. And if she put a cocktail table that went to the floor, even a block of wood or an organic root system of some kind plopped into the middle of this would help ground the space.

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Do you like the way she's laid out the furniture, or do you feel like she. I mean, aside from it being too far apart, but I mean, should she relocate? Should she turn stuff.

[Guest Speaker]

It's an.

[Susan Ferrier]

I'm gonna describe her room. Okay. It's a rectangle. She has a fireplace at one end with built in bookshelves that cover that entire wall. And then on the long walls, that's a short wall. On the long walls, she has a window on one side, two chairs in front of that window facing in. And on the opposite wall, she has a sofa facing those two chairs. And that's kind of all that's in here. And a big cased opening and a doorway down by the fireplace.

[Guest Speaker]

Honestly, you know, it's really hard to make a judgment with one elevated image.

[Susan Ferrier]

Right.

[Guest Speaker]

But she may want to think about taking those two chairs, putting them on either side of the fireplace, and turning the sofa so that you see its back. And then I bet it would all fit nicely on that rug. And then you could put a sofa table behind that sofa or a console behind it and do something really interesting and sculptural either on top of it or under it. But there is another way to arrange this room and still get your traffic.

[Susan Ferrier]

Patterns or even, like you said, a game table, because it looks like a really deep room. And they could have a couple functions happening in here. They could hang out by the sofa. What do they do with friends? Yeah, that's what we need to know.

[Guest Speaker]

I think this room is just a walkthrough. True.

[Susan Ferrier]

Eileen. What are you talking about?

[Taryn]

She does have the tv.

[Susan Ferrier]

Oh, where's the tv?

[Taryn]

To the right. So it's to the right of the fireplace.

[Guest Speaker]

How do they put it? Right over the fireplace? Yeah, I mean, but even in that other place, I hate to do that.

[Susan Ferrier]

But even in that under the wash.

[Caroline]

You give us permission then.

[Guest Speaker]

No, honestly, I think that it's, you know, electricity, it's here to stay. Televisions are not going anywhere and they're a big part of our lives and we're fooling ourselves if we don't just acknowledge that. So I would suggest putting a really big TV over that fireplace and always have a beautiful movie on it. So great. Invest in some great cinematography based movies.

[Susan Ferrier]

They have those screensavers now that you can use on your television. So yeah, so you can put images up, art or something.

[Taryn]

Her next bullet point is about the lighting in the room. Right now she doesn't have any lamps that we can see in the photo, but she does have two.

[Susan Ferrier]

What are those?

[Taryn]

Well, what do you even call those? So she has an angled ceiling and there's two.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh boy, I see them now.

[Taryn]

She didn't see them now.

[Guest Speaker]

Okay. Oh, I didn't see them in the top photograph.

[Taryn]

Yes, she wants to know. She says, I know. Yikes. Again, pull them down to know what to do. They're like.

[Guest Speaker]

My suggestion would be to put the light where the people are so the light hits you on the side of your face and not shrouding from your forehead down so that you appreciate all of your age. I would probably remove these light fixtures and put some great lamps in the room and just you can put lamps in for ambiance as well. Like, is there a way to get some kind of a lit object on that mantel on either side? You know, sconces maybe. It really depends how deep you want to go. And if you're going to hire the electrician and get somebody in there or an electrify and give you some connectivity.

[Taryn]

So on the cheap end, take out those, patch the ones on the ceiling and get yourself some good lamps. And on the next level you could put in some kind of sconces on either side of your TV after you mount it to your wall above your fireplace.

[Guest Speaker]

Or they have really great lamps that you can put actually in bookshelves. There are some companies that even do bookends that are lamps and you can light this whole thing. Up.

[Susan Ferrier]

Bring it to life.

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah, that's clever.

[Caroline]

I've never heard of that.

[Susan Ferrier]

Yeah, that is smart.

[Caroline]

Bookend lamp, maybe we need.

[Susan Ferrier]

Yeah, you need a lot more lamps.

[Taryn]

Okay. She has one more bullet point. She asks, how do you feel about the style of the mirror behind the sofa for this room? Its shape is the same as the large window across from it, if kept. Should I paint the frame? Does it need something on the walls beside it? It's centered over the sofas and centered across from the window. And the sofa is about 90 inches long. Mirror 40 inches wide. I don't have anything else on that wall. I have contemplated sconces, but cannot picture any that would look good there. If you can suggest sconces, what style I struggle with how I'm going to put lots of lamps lighting in this room. There's a piano. Oh, see, we should have read all the way. There's a piano on the front right corner with two lamps on it that you cannot. Dog crate in the left one.

[Susan Ferrier]

All right. So her mirror is a Palladian style window and it has a sort of a black looks like iron frame. And the rest of the room is cream with a navy sofa and sort of cream chairs.

[Guest Speaker]

I. If I think that the mirror. I suspect the mirror may be too small for that wall. And if you have a really big wall, you need to put a really big piece of art on it or T sequence, something that can relate to the architecture. That mirror probably needs to be on a smaller wall. Some other place in her house where she needs to introduce light like a hallway, because then it can reflect light and give and add to the feeling of a tight space. But right now, where it's placed, it's directly across from a window. So it's probably directing right back out that window. And I think I'd like to see it bigger.

[Susan Ferrier]

Yeah, because it ends like at the back of the sofa. It could go all the way to the floor. Like, it could really fill that whole wall.

[Guest Speaker]

Right?

[Susan Ferrier]

Yeah.

[Guest Speaker]

I like it when art dips below the back of a sofa. So you want to layer it again. It's the same principle of you really have this beautifully paneled wall. It has this great finish on it. And then you put a big piece of art on it. It's just another layering technique.

[Susan Ferrier]

Bigger.

[Guest Speaker]

You know, I'm always gonna say bigger. I mean, and then bigger and fewer. Yeah, you know, bigger and fewer gang things together so that it gives them more power. But yeah, bigger and fewer.

[Susan Ferrier]

And then she struggles with how to put a lot of lamps in the room. Why just put them in there? Floor lamps, table lamps. Every table put a lamp on it.

[Guest Speaker]

Well, you know, also those little apothecary lamps, the reading lamps, those. Each of these chairs should have one. And as far as connectivity, you know, I haven't met a rug that I haven't put a hole in to run a cord through, you know, and I tell my clients that we are going to have to probably put a little cut in this, depending on what kind of a rug it is.

[Caroline]

What do you cut it with? Like a box cutter?

[Guest Speaker]

Yeah.

[Susan Ferrier]

Razor blade. Yeah. Or carpet cutter. You know those things?

[Guest Speaker]

No, but there might not be an outlet in this floor, so it might be along the wall.

[Caroline]

Now, if you have a crawl space, is it difficult to put. I mean, obviously you gotta have an.

[Guest Speaker]

Electrician, but no, it's not. If you have a crawl space. Okay, I think that's a really good idea. But make sure if you're gonna put a sunken outlet in your floor, that it is truly sunken so that when push your plug in, you don't have a bump in your carpet. The whole. The.

[Susan Ferrier]

The head has to be below the floor.

[Guest Speaker]

Below the floor.

[Caroline]

So it looks almost like. Okay, just to describe to people what they're looking for, and there are several, but the ones I've seen, it's. It looks like if you've ever been to a theater and they have these little, like, metal. It looks like a little metal circular, like, cover on the floor. Right. And it has a little trap door. And so you're gonna have this little circular thing on your floor, and then there's a door that you're gonna pop up, and then the whole essentially cord.

[Susan Ferrier]

The plug.

[Caroline]

The plug part is down in there.

[Taryn]

Yeah, but they sell that casing, is what you're saying. That metal hardware thing you shove in your floor comes standard.

[Caroline]

It all comes in a box at Lowe's.

[Taryn]

Good to know.

[Caroline]

I have not done it since I bought one.

[Taryn]

And you. Did you crawl under your house?

[Caroline]

Have I not told y'all the story of the.

[Susan Ferrier]

You love the wire things.

[Caroline]

Of the electrician.

[Susan Ferrier]

Of which one.

[Caroline]

I feel like I've told this on the podcast before, but the. I had the electrician come to my house.

[Susan Ferrier]

Is this when the lights didn't work and it was just because your light bulbs were burning?

[Caroline]

Oh, no, that was another tone. The electrician thinks I'm an idiot. But no, he. I wanted to put. I wanted to put two lamps on either side of my fireplace, and it's an exterior wall. And so he was telling me, like, it would be very difficult to put the outlet on the wall. So he was like, yeah, I just really can't. And, you know, I'm gonna have to, like, tear out the wall Anyways, long story short, I was like, can't you just put it on the floor? And he's like, oh, yeah, I can do that. And I was like, okay, dude, well, let me do that. And he's like, but I only have one brass and one silver.

[Susan Ferrier]

In his truck.

[Caroline]

In my truck.

[Susan Ferrier]

Was his truck broken? He couldn't drive lows, you know?

[Caroline]

Are you okay with that? And I was like, no, absolutely not. And he was like, okay, well, like, I can come back tomorrow, but. And I was like, there's a Lowe's, like, five minutes from the house. Can I, like, go get it at Lowe's? And he's like, yeah, yeah, you can do that. And I'm like, okay. All right, buddy, I'll be back in 10 minutes. And then you can do a matching set on the floor.

[Guest Speaker]

I love that story, because I like that you did not. You were not limited, and you didn't accept no for an answer.

[Susan Ferrier]

That's right.

[Guest Speaker]

You know, I love that. There's always a way to figure it out.

[Caroline]

Well, I was very proud of myself.

[Susan Ferrier]

Good job.

[Guest Speaker]

Thank you for saying that. You should be, because so many people get discouraged.

[Caroline]

Well, I will put a picture of my awesome floor outlet so that you know what you should look for.

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Because it is. Or we can just put a link to that works, too.

[Susan Ferrier]

Well, Eileen, I feel like you've got a good start in here.

[Taryn]

I mean, she's got great.

[Susan Ferrier]

She's got some pieces.

[Guest Speaker]

I think it's great that Eileen loves beautiful things.

[Susan Ferrier]

Yes.

[Guest Speaker]

And she just wants to know how to put them together.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Susan Ferrier]

Yeah. She has a star. Drag that stuff around.

[Caroline]

Yeah. All right. Thank you so much for being our guest today. I feel like this was a really good. Hopefully people had some takeaways.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh, my gosh. Well, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

[Caroline]

Come back anytime.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh, I will.

[Caroline]

Can you. Can you tell people where they can find you? Follow you on social media?

[Guest Speaker]

Susan Ferrier.com. all right, Susan Ferrier Interiors.com.

[Susan Ferrier]

Done. It's a beautiful site.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh, thank you.

[Susan Ferrier]

Really pretty.

[Guest Speaker]

Thanks.

[Caroline]

So that was our interview with Susan Ferrier again. Atlanta interior designer. Fabulous, fabulous guest.

[Liz]

How great is it to hear Karen on the show again?

[Caroline]

Oh, I know, I know. I know. From the beginning, Liz, you were such a listener, and so I almost feel like you were there. But but yeah, it's fun to kind of Karen again. We miss her, but we know she's busy. So next week we've got one of Liz's episodes. I don't even know what you picked, Liz, so I can't wait to hear.

[Liz]

I think I'm gonna have to crowdsource this one.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Liz]

So many.

[Caroline]

I know. Well, it was hard. I will say I kind of mentioned this in the intro, but I listened to Mark Roberts because I just absolutely loved him. It's kind of on my short list. I listened to Tom Shearer, I listened to Katie Ritter. So those are some of my favorites. I didn't end up picking them because again, I listened to the Susan one with like, this was so good, so I had to pick it. But if you are kind of interested in a couple others, then those were good ones too. But you gotta go way back in the archives. Tune back in next week for Liz's episode, which I cannot wait to see which one you picked. And that's our show. You can find all of the show notes on our blog howtodecorate.com podcast to.

[Taryn]

Send in a decorating dilemma, email your questions to podcast Ballardesigns.net so we can.

[Caroline]

Help you with your space. And of course, be sure to follow us on social media at ballardesigns.

[Liz]

Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. And please leave us a review. We'd love to hear your feedback.

[Caroline]

Until next time, happy decorating.