Caroline (6:12)

Okay, Taryn, I was trying to remember, and I. Because I know that before you did your house, we talked about doing the series for so long, and we could just never, like, figure out who. I don't know. We never, like, came on the right people to talk to. And then I want to say you went out on maternity leave, and then I went out on maternity leave. So I don't know. There was a reason that you were not one of the hosts, and I think it's because you're on maternity leave. Um, but we were just like, screw it. Like, we're gonna go ahead and just do it, because if we don't do it now when we've, like, roped in someone, then we'll never get to it. So anyway, I was just thinking about how, like. Anyway. Yeah, because you weren't. You weren't one of the. You weren't.

Aaron (6:56)

Is it great?

Taryn (6:58)

No, I was in these that.

Aaron (7:00)

We talked about it once.

Taryn (7:01)

Yeah, I was in these because I. I talked too much. You know when you don't listen? Like, it's been a while since you listened to an episode and you're like.

Caroline (7:07)

Maybe that's what it was. Maybe scheduling it before I went out on maternity leave or something. I don't know. There was something weird about the schedule.

Taryn (7:14)

It might have been. I will only say, when you listen to this episode 229, I want you guys to see if you can. I hear, like, a subtle baby noises in there. And I'm like, who. Who had a child in the room? Like, I think that's the part. I'm like, I don't remember recording this and any of us having a kid, but, like, at one point I was like, is that a baby? I'm hearing a baby noise. But it was only for a minute. But if anyone listening, y'all will have to write in and tell us, because I was like, I don't remember baby. But then I was trying to do the timing of the episode, like you said, like, where was I in life? Did I have a child home while I was recording?

Caroline (7:53)

I know, like, maternity leave.

Taryn (7:57)

You're in it.

Caroline (7:59)

Okay, I must have recorded. We must have recorded right before I went out on maternity leave, because it was definitely.

Taryn (8:04)

Well, then it wasn't your baby.

Liz (8:06)

Okay.

Caroline (8:08)

So I don't.

Aaron (8:09)

Maybe.

Caroline (8:10)

Maybe that's what it was. Maybe we were trying to figure it out before. Because you got back from maternity leave, White. Right before I went out of maternity leave. Right. Because our kids were born the same year.

Taryn (8:19)

Oh, then maybe it's my business.

Liz (8:22)

Either that or it was my cat born in 21.

Taryn (8:27)

Or Cat Miles was born in 21. Oh, yeah.

Caroline (8:30)

Yeah.

Aaron (8:30)

So we must have recorded this, like.

Caroline (8:31)

In the fall of 2021. And Bertie was born October of 2021, and this published in December.

Taryn (8:42)

Okay, then. Yes, that all makes. That makes more sense. Anyway, that's pretty funny. I was just trying to remember. And then Maggie had a baby too, right? Was she pregnant?

Caroline (8:53)

And she's a funny story because I think, like, in 2020, she bought and did a huge renovation of a house, but then sold it, like, right after. And then. And then decided to build project and. But I think she was in the middle of building when we recorded this or something. I don't know.

Taryn (9:13)

That would make sense that it had start. Yeah, it was definitely not finished because she was telling people in the episode to follow along. And I think it's still on her Instagram. Like, I think it's a story highlight that you can go. And actually, you can see her finished.

Caroline (9:27)

House in our most recent house tour episode where we brought it all the way around for the house tour, but, like, for. It's decorated for the holidays. So. Yeah.

Taryn (9:40)

Oh, that's so fun. So, yes, listen to the episode, and then you can see how she started. And then you can watch the episode with Caroline and then you can see the house itself, which will be super.

Caroline (9:49)

Fun in the series. Yeah. Because really, here.

Taryn (9:53)

Yeah, no, they each had. Yeah. Which again, I. Maggie's just so smart. It's just so great to listen to them. And I. I fully recommend all of them because they're. Each one's kind of specifically different. Again, just tracking architecture and then actual building. So yeah, that's. So let's get into it. Let's take a listen.

Caroline (10:17)

So we are starting episode three today. We've got our contractor extraordinaire here. We've got Maggie Griffin, who we introd the first episode. If you haven't listened the first episode, you should probably pause and then go back and listen to the first two so that you're all up to speed and you haven't missed anything. So we've got Maggie Griffin here, Taryn's here. And we also have our contractor, Aaron Burgess of Freedom Construction here in Georgia. He's based out of Lake Oconee. He has been building his. Well, his. He's been building for more than 11 years. But his, his high end residential business has been around for 11 years. You do high end custom homes primarily. And because they're around Lake Oconee, I'm assuming a lot of them are vacation homes too.

Maggie (11:05)

Yes, most of the homes are second homes to people. And nobody is from here. Everybody lives here.

Caroline (11:12)

Well, Aaron, thank you for joining us. We have so many questions for you. So we're really excited. We've never had a contract on the ship before, so.

Maggie (11:18)

Well, I'm excited to break the mold and get it started.

Caroline (11:24)

Taryn, do you want to jump in? Maggie, Maggie, the two of you, Aaron and Maggie have an existing relationship and y'all have worked together before. Maybe y'all want to just kind of talk about your history together. You built a home I know last year and you'll have a great friendship.

Aaron (11:42)

Yeah. So I was engaged back. Great client for their second home over in the Reynolds Plantation area of Lake Oconee where there is a lot happening right now. There's. And there's a lot of different little neighborhoods within Reynolds Plantation, all with their own kind of set of rules and bylaws and kind of what you can do. And so this particular homeowner, she called me. We had, we have lots of mutual friends in common, but we had never met personally. So she called and told me that she was. They were getting ready to do the second home thing over at the lake. I think they had had a home there before in the past. They were kind of ready for the next chapter. They had the contractor already lined up and the house was actually already in progress. So Erin had started the project and these clients signed on during frame phase and we were able to customize everything from. From there. The layout was more or less defined. So then it was really fun to work with the homeowner and with Aaron on choosing what our exterior Finishes would be. And then kind of taking the reins from there for the interior part two. And that particular project that we did with Aaron, it was full scale and it was also turnkey. So it was. We were putting their forks in the drawer for them. We had food in the fridge. We did everything for them. And it took about four installs to get it all in because of just industry delays anyway. But it was just. It was the whole house and they didn't have anything to bring to the table. So that was really fun. So Aaron and I worked together on kind of executing that vision for that set of clients. But also because they were unusual in the sense of Aaron and I did the walkthroughs together that he and I were able to really facilitate their vision for their home and even give them some surprises. So that doesn't happen very often.

Taryn (13:41)

Good surprises.

Aaron (13:44)

Just that, I mean, really, Aaron, probably for the last six months, they did not come to the house like, so they did not come until it was completed. And that was fun for me because she walked in and of course, I'm not a huge proponent of anyone crying, but she calls me crying. And I was like, I did my job, you know. So that was really fun. And that's awesome. They're very, very grateful. They have two young kids. Aaron put a pool in for them and it just. It turned out so beautifully. I think they wish they could spend even more time there, but it is their second home.

Maggie (14:15)

Yeah. So it was a fun project. And it was, you are right. Most of the time, whenever people are building a home of this magnitude, they definitely are hands on and own the property almost every single weekend. And that becomes a challenge sometimes for the builder because they become the second secondary contractor. And so it's a lot of explaining. But in this case, they wholeheartedly trusted Maggie and left pretty much everything to her and communicated directly with her, which made my life very, very easy. And the project was completed very much in a timely manner because of that. And I was very thankful to have her. And I think they only visited the home maybe three times during the whole construction.

Aaron (14:58)

I only went there once with her every other time I was there with my team. And then, wow, hey. Things to the homeowner. And again, I will say this was a special circumstance, but I think too, Erin, just. I know that I'm able to make a decision pretty quickly, I think, and also am very cognizant of the time involved on. If you call me and you ask me a question, I know it's because you need the answer. So I'm not going to waste time on delaying that response because I understand if you've got the subs there, let's use them. Like let's don't kick in on making the decision. Like let's keep the ball rolling. And I think that that is a testament to how you were able to get them in. Very timely. And because we were able to keep the project.

Maggie (15:46)

Yeah, that is definitely a hurdle. Whenever working with a homeowner, a lot of times decisions, they're really scared to make decisions quickly. And there's certain decisions that come up on a daily, almost daily basis that require someone to make a decision. Even if you've done the best of planning, things don't always go right. You can't get a certain material, pipes in the way or something's just not perfect. Like it wasn't a plan and that definitely delays the project. And in this case, that person was Maggie. So usually within 30 seconds she can make a decision.

Taryn (16:22)

That's pretty good.

Aaron (16:24)

Yeah, great.

Caroline (16:25)

It sounds like that. And I feel like we do need to back up at some point and talk about the beginning steps of starting a project like this. It sounds like that's a great example of why you should really trust the team that you've hired and only hire someone that you think very highly of because you know, like you need someone needs to look to you to help guide them in terms of like what their best choice is.

Aaron (16:52)

Well, and when I think for this particular set of clients, having a plan already was very helpful. I don't know that the project would have been quite as smooth or as successful if we had been from scratch on a plan. I do think them being able to come in because it was a spec situation in the beginning to see like the living room was already framed out. Right. Aaron, like y'all had, I don't know, the roof was on. But like just seeing that. And there are tons of very high end developments, much like Reynolds Plantation that are doing the same approach. Like they're starting the house, they have a house plan and then you can come in and you can buy it and customize it and then you know it's yours, move right in. Versus like we were speaking before Caroline about it taking 6 to 12 months to even get plans in hand. So just the fact that Aaron had a beautiful home that met all the criteria ready for them. It was three car garage, basement. I mean, yeah, full basement, garage apartment, you know, master on the main, beautiful kitchen, porches, like all of it, checked all the boxes, they could have ever dreamed of. And then she sends me the plans, and I'm able to say, okay, I see what we need to do now. We went over. We picked out all of our plumbing, we picked out all of our lighting, we picked out all of our tile, countertops, paint colors. And so we try to make our contractors jobs much easier by providing those schedules, hopefully before we're asked. And if there are changes, we can make those changes fairly quickly because it's all digital and send that revised copy pretty quickly.

Caroline (18:32)

Okay, so, Erin, let's. Let's back up a little bit, because I want to ask about finding a contractor who you should hire. Like, what sort of things do you think someone needs to look for and know before, you know, you've really started the process?

Maggie (18:48)

I mean, first and foremost, obviously, you ought to do your research. Word of mouth is the best, in my opinion, because online reviews, websites, Facebook pages, they don't tell the whole story, and a lot of times they don't tell the true story. But I think bigger than that, and this is what I tell everybody. I'm a relationship builder number one. And so if our relationship doesn't start off right, or if we don't have a good vibe between us, the best thing to do is to find someone else. That's why there's so many contractors. That's why there's so many designers, because it's not a good fit. It may just be in the way you communicate. It may not be styles or ability. It just may be in the way that you communicate, and it just doesn't fit the other person. So many times I have told clients, hey, I don't think this is a good fit. And I've had clients tell me the same thing, and those end up, you know, going on and having successful projects, but it just doesn't work. So I think when picking a builder, obviously, the what everybody knows, just, you know, check your references and things like that. But more than that, you really ought to have a friend at the end of the project. You don't want anybody that is on the other side of the table. That's a phrase I use a lot. I want to be on the same side of the table as you. I don't want to sit across the table from you and take orders, and I don't want to give you orders. I want us. It's a team, and it's definitely a journey. And so we're going to be on it together, and there's going to be things I can't control and things that they can't control. So that relationship is probably paramount to anything else. When picking a builder for me, do.

Caroline (20:21)

You think someone needs to walk through a couple of your projects before they hire you?

Maggie (20:25)

Oh, absolutely. I think walking through the project and just seeing our taste, certain builders here at Lake Oconee and in other areas, they have special nuances that are just particular to them, and I think it shows in their work. So people walking through your projects that are completed definitely give them a better feel of who you are and what they're going to end up with.

Caroline (20:49)

Taryn and Maggie, how did y'all pick your contractors? For your projects that we're working on.

Taryn (20:54)

I can go first. I actually met mine because he was building two houses down, and he had built a few others in the neighborhood, all of which were the ones we really liked near our home. So between that and he then moved into the house he built two houses down. He likes to live in them for a few years, and then he sells them, is how he does it. He was one one of the ones we interviewed, essentially, and we ended up liking him. And now he can't hide from us. He lives two houses down.

Aaron (21:24)

Fun's pretty similar. Our contractor here, we've worked on client projects together already. So he kind of got the way I organize my work and my business, and then when it came time to do our renovation last year, he was available, and so kind of going through that process where there were so many surprises. And then on top of that, you've got a global pandemic and all the things that started happening, the fact that we still like each other, I think, is pretty. Pretty much a testament to we get along really well. I think that he values my opinion, and he's taught me a lot, but I think I've taught him a lot, too. And so I think that at the end of the day, he knows that I will do everything I can to make his work shine even. Even more. But also knowing the caliber of work that he has. Just like Aaron, like Aaron says there, I can walk their house that's at frame stage, and I can kind of know if I want. I would use that builder or not.

Caroline (22:21)

Well.

Aaron (22:24)

Tell us how. Well, like, my builder uses two by eights versus two by fours. And if you go to a corner where it's being supported, there's about 20 of them lined up in the corners. And Aaron's the same way. You come in and you've got reinforced foundation downstairs. You've got a finished floor in your basement, too, which is kind of huge, the way that your spray foam finishes out. I mean, but that's after a lot of experience. I can recognize those quality features.

Taryn (22:56)

Right.

Aaron (22:57)

I can also ride by a house that looks like it's made out of toothpicks. And I know that that's probably a spec home or a development. And it's fine. Like, it's. I'm not saying it's going to fall in hopefully, like this cute, like, little old lady last year, and a tree had fallen on her home. And my contractor and I were doing that project together too. And he's shown his light was like his big flashlight up into the attic. And I could tell immediately, like, her attic and her roof line, none of it was even framed well, so no wonder. Her house was. I mean, really almost a total loss. But it was just down to kind of the nitty gritty and the bowels of the house, like, how it was built to begin with. So just kind of knowing his work for sure. My husband is. He loves the building process too. He's not in the industry, but he can recognize quality work. And so when we're in the mountains, like, or we're at the beach or somewhere where we might potentially need a subcontractor, he'll ride around and he'll say, oh, I've seen that same paint van in about six different houses. They must be good. So he'll take a picture. Or like in Highlands, he'll say, like, oh, my gosh, I see that same contractor truck, like, around, and so I'm gonna call them. And. And I think that's important too. Like, if it's. You can have a bright and flashy website to Aaron's point. And it. There might be a gamut of unhappy clients on the other end of that.

Taryn (24:22)

Yeah, no, that's a good point. And seeing their work, like. Like Aaron said, like, seeing their actual work, for me, was one of the big sellers just being like, okay, this lines up with the level of work I think I want or the quality.

Caroline (24:40)

So, okay, if you've got your. If you've got your plans, whether that's, you know, like a house plan or you're. You're working with an architect and then you're. You're starting sort of like the. I guess I don't know if it's. There's a step before, but, like, you're getting estimates from contractors, what do you feel about. Say you get three. A high, middle, and a low. Like, what are your thoughts there? Like, should you let that be the reason that you Make a choice or should it be the communication and the relationship that you think?

Maggie (25:08)

It depends on which type of home you're building for me. But when you're definitely talking about second homes or a primary residence, that is something that your forever home and you're gonna put your blood, sweat and tears into it. Price probably should not be the main factor because anybody that's using good materials and quality subs are going to be competitive. That price, the actual markup is not that great. So it is across the whole board. I mean, it makes a good project. But price, to me, it should be probably the last thing that you consider. You know, you were going back to your point, Maggie, of when you can tell a really good builder, you know, visiting job sites too, that's in the process of building. If it's really clean, like that is something that's really big to me coming out of the commercial world, you know, if it's really clean and the subs that are on there are working good together, that's a good indicator. So going back to two, I'm sorry to skip around, but I definitely feel like price should probably be the least thing that's on the list.

Aaron (26:14)

And I think transparency on those that where that number came from is. Is a really big one. So, I mean, most of our builders who we're working with up here, they have a contractor fee and then they have the rest of the house. So at the end of the day, you know, to put in a really good heating and air system or to have a really good framer come in or a drywall guy like that really kind of needs to be someone that the contractor is recommending because they know their work where I just happen to like, like all this stuff. But not a lot of people really kind of know the difference in quality plumbing and all those things. And so you have a contractor fee that you're willing to pay. And a lot of the ones that we have worked with with clients over the years have they have kind of a draw that they take per month for the duration of the project. And then everything else is a line item receipt. Like, they'll hand over the whole receipt from Builders first for the lumber package, or they'll hand over the whole receipt from the heating and air company. So I think that the transparency there is really nice and you definitely kind of get what you pay for. And like Erin said, that's not somewhere you really want to skim. But it's also, you know, there's a lot of them out there that put bad taste in people's mouths. Like they're price gouging. So yeah, there are subs over the years, especially over the years with my husband and I, from a personal perspective that you could tell, they just didn't want to do the work because they marked up what they were doing so high. And I'm like, okay, I get it. Like if we were going to take the bait on that, it was definitely going to be worth their time. And it could be something as simple as painting or like retiling a shower. But on a custom build, I do think it's really helpful just to say, like, tell me how all of this breaks down. And you know, we were talking about in the first episode too, Aaron, like, I think you and I hopped on the phone. I think we talked for maybe over an hour. The first time we talked about that particular project we did and we went through and I was like, I need you to allot this amount of money for these finishes. Like I, I need you to help me here so that they're not fussing at Maggie at the end or me or you. I'd rather you than me. But I have had lots of clients who come back with that spreadsheet and say, you know what, I'm just, I'm going to pay for my lights out of pocket. Like, I know I just, that's really important to me. I just want to do my lights. Like I'm just going to.

Caroline (28:43)

Don't worry about that.

Aaron (28:44)

Like take that out of the spreadsheet. Same thing with like, I'm going to pay for the. If I want roll, you know, coming from Italy on the plumbing fixtures, I'll just pay for that. So I think there are some ways you can do it. It doesn't all have to be lumped into one big chunk.

Maggie (29:01)

Honestly too, getting a, getting estimates right now is really, is really almost. You can't do it accurately. Prices are changing so fast in both directions. I had someone call me the other day, oh, lumber's down. Absolutely. Lumber is down from where it was three months ago. But there's a lot of other things that are just now starting to increase. And so those estimates most of all the estimates I get are 30 day estimates. They will only give me a price range for 30 days. If you can trust your contractor, hands down, best thing to do is cost plus a fee. You're going to get the best result, you're going to get the best value and you're going to build a good relationship. The only time, the only time that you're going to win out is if the contractor loses money on a fixed price lump sum because they're going to be protecting their interest the whole time they got to. And likewise the homeowner is going to be going to protect their interest. Me personally, I would not proceed on a contract right now unless it's just a cost plus a fee that keeps me completely honest and it protects both parties. So whereas I have a client right now who is saving about $45,000 on a framing package from where we quoted it three months ago. Now that we're ready for it, they're saving 45 grand. Had that not been the case and I had to lock in with a price three months ago, I would be realizing those savings and quite possibly it could have went up 45,000 and then I would have lost. So, you know, when you're getting overall budgets, yes, you can use that as a, as a factor, but there's so many variables in that that nobody has control over in this environment.

Caroline (30:48)

So earlier you mentioned, like wanting things like having a clean site or having subs that work together are really important. And I wonder if there is like a. What are the reasons behind that? Like, is it, is it a speed thing? Like, not speed, but, you know, getting your project going and it going smoothly. Like, what are, are there. You say finding it financial shouldn't necessarily be your first, your top choice. Like, what are the factors that are more important? I guess is what I'm trying to get at.

Maggie (31:19)

More, more factors than choosing the contractor.

Caroline (31:22)

Yeah. Well, like, is it, what do those small things like a clean job site indicate to you about the quality or the, the job that they're going to do?

Maggie (31:32)

Well, a clean job site, number one, is going to create just an atmosphere of excellence. People do not leave trash because they know that they'll. If your job site was clean when they went in and it's not when they leave, it's very obvious who that responsible person and party is. Another thing that my superintendents, they do it every single day. And this is kind of funny, but they take a picture of our toilet facilities on the job site every single day and email that to the office because, and I tell them, you know, I don't want our subs using the restroom facilities that we wouldn't use. And so they're already in the elements. Your 90% of this job is not heated and cooled. So it's either really hot or really cold, and we can't control that. Or it's wet, muddy like it is today. And so those things we Want to keep ourselves as happy as possible. And that's why I believe when you build a team and you have a contractor that has a good team, that they stay together and things happen. And those are things that I brought over from my commercial experience, because on a commercial job site, we're typically running between 50 and 75 individuals at one job site every single day. And so there's a lot of personalities and a lot of different.

Taryn (32:50)

A lot of trash.

Maggie (32:52)

There's a lot of different house. House manners. Yes. We called it housekeeping, and that housekeeping is different. People that typically would leave a bottle of Coke on their dresser when they went to work, they will leave it at your job site, and they can leave it inside a wall. You get covered up, mold can grow. I mean, there is a lot of different factors that play into that. And so you have to build that reputation, not just with other clients, but on our job sites, our subs know what we expect from them, but they know what to expect from us. We're going to always, you know, be there to support them. We cook on our job sites about every other Friday for our subs. So we do a lot of little things because it's a family and everybody's working together.

Caroline (33:38)

Okay, that makes sense.

Maggie (33:39)

That's another good thing. If you do go visit a job site, speak to one of the subs, speak to somebody else that's working on there. See how they like working for the people that are there.

Caroline (33:47)

That's a great tip.

Taryn (33:48)

No, these are all good tips. I didn't think about someone leaving something in my walls.

Aaron (33:52)

We've never had that discussion on our.

Caroline (33:54)

We've never talked about Lottie on our show before.

Taryn (33:56)

So I liked watching Caroline's face, and she tried to figure out how to pivot from that. She was like, hold on.

Caroline (34:03)

Wait a second.

Aaron (34:04)

Yes to the port a potty.

Maggie (34:07)

Yes, please go to the port a potty and make sure that it's close enough to the house that they want to go there instead of somewhere else in the yard.

Caroline (34:17)

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Aaron (34:18)

Okay.

Caroline (34:19)

So what about city permitting? Because I feel like that's something that we haven't talked on yet. Is that something that the contractor does or the architect or, like, who's in charge there?

Maggie (34:29)

Typically, plans are handed to a contractor to get permitting. Since he will be the permittee, he will be also representing the owner. So the architect will finish the plans, the civil engineer will finish the plans, and then the contractor will go and submit that the sitting permit, city permitting or county, like it is here at Reynolds, there's a couple processes. You would send a set of plans to the state for civil engineering. You would get a county permit to build the house. You would also get Architectural Review board approvals, and typically that would be the responsibility of the contractor.

Caroline (35:05)

Okay, so talk to us about an architectural Review Board. Arb. Are those the busy bodies in the neighborhood that approve your plans and say whether it's good enough?

Maggie (35:15)

Absolutely. So the Architectural Review Board. I can just speak from my experience here.

Taryn (35:21)

Wait, does everyone have one of these?

Maggie (35:23)

Most planned developments do. If it's a planned development neighborhood, meaning over 100 homes, or if they have mixed use, where they offer other facilities such as ball fields or pools or any kind of community, typically it's governed by a board. And it could be. It could be just homeowners, could be architects, it could be people that are hired. So that board typically is made up of members at large or people that are there and other appointed folks and.

Caroline (35:56)

I assume historic neighborhoods too, depending on where you live. And I, I jokingly say busy bodies. By the way, just in case anyone is on an Architectural Review Board, I'm sure there are plenty of instances where you are grateful that your neighbor had to go through the architectural Review Board as well. So I went, I mean, with it.

Aaron (36:16)

Like, I get the whole point, especially in the neighborhoods. Like, we have a lot in metro Atlanta that are very. It would. They're very cohesive and I understand, but I'm always curious about what the credentials are the people on Arb and like, do they amend their. Of what I'm thinking, if you did something 20 years ago and it was all the rapes, then, you know, are they amending that over time?

Maggie (36:43)

Here at Reynolds, they are complete. They are continuing to amend the Architecture Review Board, according to their bylaws, is there to enforce the rules and regulations that are already in place and kind of interpret those. And they do hire landscape architect and a license architect to serve on the board, as well as other homeowners and other people that serve in other capacities. But in the new phases, and I know earlier Maggie was talking about here at Reynolds, they have different neighborhoods within it that have carry different regulations. They are now opening up to more of what they're calling transitional construction, going from conventional to more contemporary style. And that's exciting to be a part of that. I just recently purchased a lot and I'm about to build a home that is going into the transitional area, which gives us a lot more flexibility, more wrought iron type features, more glass and windows in the front of Homes and very lighter colors with higher light reflective values. So. And our architecture review board has been really, really cool and instrumental in making that happen. They continue to hear from the members that they wanted to see a little bit the other than the traditional home that is here, and they are making that transition.

Caroline (37:59)

I also assume that they, they. It's not just aesthetic that they're helping you regulate or that they're regulating. Like I said, you know, setbacks from street. I don't know. Is there more to it than is. Or is it just aesthetic? I don't know.

Maggie (38:13)

No, it's. It, it is. It's more than just aesthetic. It's definitely setbacks. And here we have on the landscaping side, as far as foundational plannings and things like that to soften the neighborhood, to give more of an even flow. They do that. We also enforce violations such as it can be as minor as cars being left outside of the garage or trash cans not removed from the street to as grand as, you know, people running, you know, selling vehicles on their lawn and working on cars for long periods of time and things like that. Their goal here is more protection. It's to protect these. The other people that have invested millions of dollars in their home and to try to keep that uniform.

Caroline (39:03)

So you've gotten your. Let's say you've gotten your. Your house and your plans permitted or. Yeah, permitted from the city or you've got it approved. Where do we go next?

Aaron (39:12)

Like what, what.

Caroline (39:13)

What are our next steps and maybe any common pitfalls that you start seeing at this point?

Maggie (39:19)

Well, one thing, you going back to your estimate too. I would recommend to re. Estimate the project or wait until this point to do a full estimate because oftentimes during that submittal process, things get changed. Things that are not to code or more strenuous rules. I just had a set of plans that came back that added a lot more retainer wall and it affected the project about $65,000 and there was no way around it. So we thought we could do something a different way, but they wouldn't accept it. So because of that unacceptance, it did affect the project, 65,000. And on this one that was about 3%. So it was a pretty good amount of the project. So after you get your permit, I would suggest then doing your final estimates and then you would start working on your site, getting your site prepared, going out and doing silt fence and erosion containment and then doing clearing, which is the most exciting part. Everybody's excited when trees start coming down and things get dug in the ground and fresh dirt. And somewhere after, start becoming restless. They're ready to get in there.

Caroline (40:34)

It's probably already been many months that they've had this in their head.

Taryn (40:39)

I'm. I just finished framing, so I'm with you now. It's like, so what's next? Now that I can see the shape. Yeah, I can see it.

Maggie (40:49)

Yeah. Typically, once the. Once the house is framed, their dream has become a reality, and now it's, when can you get me here? You are stopping me from sleeping in this home. What is going on? And a lot of things happen. That part happens really quickly after framing. The. The trades come in, and it seems like the house kind of sits at a standstill. To the common eye, it would seem like, what are you doing? But that's actually the most important part. After the frames, the framing's up. How your life is going to be affected in the future is happening in those walls. And so that's very, very important. Just to be patient with your contractor during that time.

Aaron (41:26)

Mm.

Caroline (41:28)

Okay. I feel like you and Maggie need to have, like, maybe. Maybe I'll need to duke it out a little bit on this next question, but in terms of splurging and saving or, like, I don't want to say cut corners, because, you know, we're kind of talking a house you want to be in a long time, but where are, from a construction standpoint and maybe even from a design standpoint, the places where you should really invest your dollars.

Maggie (41:54)

You go first, Maggie. I.

Aaron (41:57)

Well, I think this is a really.

Taryn (41:59)

Hard one because again, I'm.

Aaron (42:01)

And literally doing.

Caroline (42:02)

You want to say every. Everyone wants to say everywhere.

Aaron (42:04)

Right?

Caroline (42:04)

Like, you don't want to cheap out anywhere.

Taryn (42:08)

No, we just did an area that I thought was interesting of, like, again, I knew I couldn't do the cedar shingles. Like, it wasn't happening. Wasn't even in my budget.

Aaron (42:16)

Right.

Taryn (42:16)

So then we picked out another one, and then those. The lead time was ridiculous. So then we were like, well, do we just get the most, like, basic and not really focus on it if it's not going to be a focal point, you know? Anyway. So anyway, I was like, is this where I can save some money then? Is this where I can, like, if I'm not going to make it amazing, can I just make it, like, blah and then save some money? And then. So you don't even look at it like. Anyway. So I'm really interested in this question.

Aaron (42:44)

Well, I'm probably not the right person to ask about this, but I think that if you, the way I tell my clients is if you can get comfortable with the bottom line, then we can work within those numbers. But I think when, and I'm sure Erin can attest, like when you start kind of like going chunk by chunk, like, well, why is it this? What can we do to cut. It's. I use the analogy of a sweater where you pull a thread and eventually the yarn falls apart. So in the sense of if you are engaging someone of Aaron's caliber or really at truly any custom home in this particular climate, chances are you have already decided to have a very nice home. Now to the point of what we spoke about on the first episode is I try to be very helpful with my clients on what is worth it to say, you know, let's don't change that. Like let's, let's stick to our guns. Now to me, nothing is more charming than a cedar shake roof. There are alternatives that give you that same kind of dimension, which I think is the total like kind of goal there. That would cost about half of that. So we can guide our clients with our contractors on choices like that. You know what, copper gutters are like 40% higher than regular gutters. Well, let's just go with the regular. But then to things like gas lanterns, that's not something you're ever going to change. Like you're, if you're committing to gas, that's for the toilet arm, you're not going to, you can't. It's very, very expensive and difficult to go back and add something like that. So just from an outside perspective, like that's kind of how we try to guide our clients. You know, everybody looks, loves the look of a, a wooden garage store. Well, I would say almost 10 times out of 10 those get nixed every time because that's at the end of the project. They cost twice as much as the fiberglass does. So just go with the. A regular garage door. Now from an interior's perspective, I'm really big on making the most of your interior architecture with millwork, with moldings, with whether that's tongue and groove shiplap, because to me it almost is kind of a. They're not exactly the same price, but you get a lot of bang for your buck there versus doing just drywall everywhere. Now I would not go in and push up in all of my kids bedrooms. Like that's just kind of crazy. They, they can have drywall, they can have drywall ceilings. But in your main living areas, when you walk in your front Door really work with someone, whether that's an interior tag, your hire architect or your designer to talk about where to splurge on those pretty millwork details. To me, that really matters. I would not go in and put in marble everywhere in the house. That's another place. Like we all love the look of an Italian imported surface like that. Maybe you choose to do that in your master and maybe that's it. There are beautiful porcelains, beautiful ceramics out there that you can use that are not that expensive. Same thing for your plumbing fixtures. There are ready made pieces that are right here in stock in the US that don't involve a six month lead time and are handmade in Europe. So I think there's a good balance there. So for me, exterior finishes are important to find that right kind of marriage. And then inside I would, I mean truly your cabinet details and your millwork to me is really important.

Caroline (46:25)

That makes sense in terms of like having that bottom line number and then manipulating things above that, keeping that number the same. I feel like that's a really practical way to go about it because you're gonna get to places where either it's more expensive than you think it's gonna be or there's a hiccup.

Aaron (46:43)

Yeah. That like if you have a cardboard box, you will spend a fortune trying to decorate the cardboard box. So. Right. You know what I mean? Like Daniel.

Taryn (46:52)

Oh, you're right.

Aaron (46:53)

She says, she's like, get the background as right as you can and then the rest of it falls into place. You have a beautiful background. You don't have to do all these other things at the home. Speaks for itself. And then you, you don't feel that urge to just like keep changing or adding.

Caroline (47:10)

Yeah, yeah. All right. Aaron, what about you? Where should you spend your dollars?

Maggie (47:15)

I tell clients that ask me this, they ask me this all the time. And I think you come at it from two different aspects. Are you going to resell the home quickly, which a lot of our clients do, because they keep a second home for a couple years and then they sell it, or is this somewhere you're going to stay forever? And if you feel like this is going to be somewhere you can stay forever, this is kind of a funny question. I say, okay, tell me your best friend that you see twice a week, three times a week, tell me all the features in their houses that you can remember. They never know what color roof they have. They never know that. I don't know what she's. I don't know if she's got metal or asphalt shingles or what it is.

Taryn (47:55)

You know, if she had cedar. That's a lie. I'm kidding.

Maggie (48:00)

Whatever you can remember is probably going to be important for you because this is something that's already subliminal in your mind. You notice that and anything that you touch on a daily basis. I am a real big proponent about doors, trim, doorknobs, things that feel heavy and weighted to me. Love it. So I tell people to splurge on those things. Things that really don't matter. Rooms that you don't go in every day, don't spend money there. Rooms that, that don't really benefit you, you just don't have to spend money. Windows is somewhere that I personally have a love hate relationship with. Windows look really good from the outside, but that is somewhere that you can really overspend really quickly and never have the benefit of. Any major name supplier is probably going to have a really good window that's going to basically keep out cold weather or hot weather and keep out water you don't open. Squirrels, like exactly. Birds. Squirrels.

Taryn (49:01)

I want to keep those out too.

Caroline (49:03)

Geckos, Lizards.

Maggie (49:04)

Absolutely. So those things that you don't touch every day or you don't operate every day. I don't even know when I've operated my windows in my personal home. I've never. I mean, I may open them if we're spring cleaning once or twice a year, but if you don't use it every day, don't spend money on it.

Caroline (49:22)

Here's one for me that I feel like is, is important. Faucets, like your kitchen. Well, your kitchen faucet. Okay. Your kitchen faucet. Like how many times a day do it? Do you touch your kitchen faucet? Probably 50, 100.

Maggie (49:34)

Yes.

Caroline (49:34)

And so it always is crazy to me when someone more now, you know, I'm gonna. Yeah, true with hand washing. You know, it always is kind of weird to me when someone's like, oh, just get like a hundred dollar faucet from Home Depot, like what?

Aaron (49:48)

But you'll replace that faucet six times and you could have just bought the other one.

Caroline (49:54)

I mean, I'm not saying you need like a $5,000 faucet, but like, you know, I like, I like the, the whatever you touch rule.

Maggie (50:01)

Yes. Whatever you touched. I would, I always tell them to do that. And whatever they can remember about other homes, they'll end up remembering about their homes. Now my wife, she's a builder's wife and she knows everything. She knows too much. Oh, man, she has a list for me all the time. Did you know? Yes, baby, I did know. I do know every inch of our home. Our home is about a year old.

Taryn (50:23)

Amazing.

Maggie (50:24)

And so we still. I still get a list. And she's like, hey, I really want to change this, or, I don't like this. We need to redo that. I'm like, I'm the builder. I don't know what this does about me.

Aaron (50:36)

I think, too, I'm jealous, right? Give you a list, the places that you see. I think that's a good place to splurge on all finishes, not just, you know, windows and doors, but, you know, you'd want to put your, your more impactful lights, like, in your entry, your dining room, your kitchen, and probably like a, A beautiful, like, living room picture and a powder room sconce. Everything else is secondary. I'm like, Lauren, I remember everything, but no one really knows what your master bedroom, master bathroom, like, sconces look like. You know, it's really more about, like, feel back there, but that's really important to me. And then, you know, right now our cabinet budgets are coming in for our clients. I mean, they're six figures and they're coming in and those clients are calling us saying, where is this going? And it's, it's frustrating for us because I know that a quality product, that it, it does cost money. But if you're able to work with a cabinet builder, too, I think that there's some, some unique things you can do there, as in, you know, maybe don't do all custom in every secondary bathroom. Like, we have a home that has two powder rooms and six secondaries and a master and a kitchen and butlers. That adds up so fast. So there are some. I hesitate to use the word prefab, but some companies that you can get vanities from that are still very quality, they're a third of the price of custom. They're going to have good storage, good drawers, and they're going to be in spaces that somebody stays in maybe, what, once every two months. So it's. I would, I would definitely work within your constraints on cabinetry. I feel like over the past two years, we're having a really big discussion on flooring, too. And to me, 15 years ago, staying on site, do it, everybody. That was easy peasy. Well, now there's so many other options that are more cost effective because there are. They're already finished when they come on site and there's just an install. So it's. That's a big question that we're talking about with a lot of our homeowners is obviously we all look love the look of real hardwoods, but there may be an alternative that saves you thousands and that you can put especially like at the lake, you can put into a basement because you would not want to do real hardwoods that give you that same look. Also, the kind of discussion on whether do you do carpet in kids bedrooms or save a little there.

Maggie (53:07)

Yeah.

Aaron (53:08)

The end probably not saving a whole lot by doing that if you have a consistent forming throughout. But I think we call it the while you're at it phase is like Erin said, you get to the framing and it's like, well, while we're at it, we want to add in this and this and this. Like, add on all the things and that. That can be a bit. That can hurt in the end.

Maggie (53:33)

Yes.

Aaron (53:33)

While you're at it can add six figures to your project easy. So being clear on that. And I know, you know, some of our, our male clients, they're like, well, I've always wanted like a steam shower with two rain heads and all the bells and whistles. Well, that shower just went from 5,000 to 15,000, you know, so. Well, we've got this closet down, right. A wine room. So it can add up really quickly.

Caroline (54:01)

It sounds like just having like some, you know, a. You having a Maggie or a designer or a contractor that you really trust just to help talk you off a ledge is also like, that's, that's the reason you want a team you really like, because they're going to be the ones that are like, okay, do you really need this? Or like.

Taryn (54:20)

Well, it is.

Caroline (54:21)

It's a fine line with the.

Taryn (54:22)

Because it is true. You're already out here. So should we just do it now?

Aaron (54:26)

Like, do it.

Caroline (54:27)

Yeah.

Taryn (54:27)

And then to your point, if the budget doesn't allow someone gives.

Caroline (54:32)

Yeah.

Aaron (54:33)

Well, you hope that when you get that spreadsheet initially that it is as close as possible. I mean, there will. It will never be. It will never be perfect. But just wrapping your head around that, that bottom line is an important part of it to me. I have a really good friend in Atlanta and they built and she was fussing about six months ago saying, why did you let me pick the $5,000 ice maker? And I couldn't get the closet. Like, she had to put in wire shelving. And I said, but that's what you wanted. Like, we were, I mean, she was like laughing right. That that was a choice that was made. And then it's like, what were we thinking, like. But it's the. While you're at it, you're looking at the appliances and you're like, I've always wanted that nugget ice. And so get it ordered. And the appliance package, you know, all the things. And she's the end of the project. Where the closet. Literally, me talked about it's gonna be me too. Taryn.

Taryn (55:32)

Oh, my gosh. And I'm gonna lose it when it comes to my closet. Lose it.

Maggie (55:37)

I'm gonna be.

Caroline (55:38)

Forget it.

Aaron (55:39)

Take out the flooring.

Taryn (55:40)

We're going with just a plyboard.

Caroline (55:44)

Give me my closet.

Taryn (55:45)

All right. I'm glad Maggie's gonna be there, too, though. Did you hear that? A professional will also be with me.

Aaron (55:51)

No, listen, that will be me all day long.

Caroline (55:54)

I feel better. Are there. I mean, obviously, you can easily, like, upgrade something or downgrade something. That maybe isn't a smart choice. But what about the timing? Like, do all these changes drive up the cost of your overall construction? Because the timing now changes.

Maggie (56:13)

I think there are several things. I mean, definitely timing, today's environment. Timing is everything. Timing will override a lot of choices. Our home has been built now, like I said, for almost a year, and our refrigerators are coming in today. We've been. We've had a temporary refrigerator and stove, and they've been on order for over 12 months. And so I don't know if it's because I'm a contractor. They just like, well, he'll understand, so let's push him. But definitely things are taking a lot of times. And I'll have. I'm seeing a lot of clients change their minds based on when they can get product so that as long as well as on the contractor side, different things require different specifications. So they may end up having us change plumbing. We would end up having to change framing different things of that nature. Every door is not the same. Every refrigerator is not the same. So little changes definitely could not just the initial cost of the item, but the whole infrastructure of getting that item in could definitely drop cost up.

Caroline (57:22)

Okay, well, so what's your. What are both of Yalls takes on making a change based on timeline? It's like that. Is that a terrible. It seems like that's a terrible way to decide what kind of stove you want to like. Whatever's available. I'm just using this as an example.

Aaron (57:38)

But I mean, I think it. At some point, it's important to commit, but if maybe it's not committing to something that's not going to be here for 18 months, maybe we just found some. Like, try to find something that's very close to it versus eliminating and having to reframe. So we encourage our clients because, like Erin said, it's a trickle down effect. Like if you're needing a beverage fridge in your wet bar and you've already, like, got that, and that's center with the sink, and then you've got ice maker to the side, and then you start eliminating what changes your cabinets, it changes your countertops, it changes your sink, your f. Like so many. It's a trickle down. So I think at some point you do kind of have to commit and also know that nowhere is saying it's not coming. Like, nobody's saying, like, these items are not coming anymore. You're just going to be a little bit more patient than you thought you.

Caroline (58:28)

Were going to have to.

Taryn (58:30)

Absolutely no nugget ice right away.

Caroline (58:33)

You gotta wait.

Maggie (58:34)

You gotta wait.

Aaron (58:35)

Get your closet that good ice.

Taryn (58:37)

Yeah, well, and I mean, I think that might have even been my question from that Caroline just asked because we did a walkthrough with our builder on the framing, and it felt like it was like, all right, is this the now or never On a lot of things? And it was like an anxiety being, like, to your point, like, well, what if I wanted a pocket door there? What if I. And the architect puts furniture in the plan? But if you don't have a Maggie or someone to already go ahead and like go through it, you are like, well, do I want that door there? Do I want a bed on that wall? So it's thinking through all those. Because once the framers leave. Yeah, you can do it. But it's gonna, I assume, cost more, right?

Maggie (59:17)

It's gonna definitely cost more.

Aaron (59:19)

See?

Taryn (59:19)

Okay, I knew it. I knew I should have been stressed.

Aaron (59:23)

Erin, how often do you do walkthroughs with your clients?

Maggie (59:27)

At least. At least four times. The big one being at framing. In fact, I just had a client just while ago reschedule a framing walk. At that time, there are a lot of do or dies because we're meeting cabinet suppliers then, so those cabinets are going in. And that's where you got to say, I want a 36 inch wide stove or a 48 inch or 60 or a combination. So that's being decided. Where light switches are going is so important, and it's different for each person. You know, I would go in and lay out a house and have the owner come right behind me and change every single one of them. I don't really like that there. And this is why I was at this one house and I used to hate having to do this at that. And I don't want to walk across the hallway to turn on this light. So at the framing inspection we always do one and then I have them come back after the Sheetrock is up. Really nothing has changed. But I just want to go over with them one more time. Hey, before we start putting trim on the walls and we start setting cabinets and start painting. Do you see it again now? Because for some reason the box was in the same spot but once the trick, once the Sheetrocks up now the room feels different. It feels much larger. And oh my goodness, I didn't realize this was that far away. Those kind of things are there. So we have those that inspection or that walk through. And then we have another walk through after the cabinets go in. Typically that's for door swings, making sure that they like the way their doors are all swinging. They sit not on a toilet, but kind of where the toilet is. And okay, when you're sitting here, where do you want your toilet paper holder? Where do you want a napkin? What do you want on the wall? That kind of thing. Where's your toothbrush going to go? Or where's your hand towel going to go? Those kind of things are started then. And then at the very end, right before we put the flooring down, which we use a lot of pre finished hardwoods. So before the flooring goes down, we have another wall and we ask the clients again, okay, is there anything you want to change that at that point? Any major changes really cost a lot. But definitely also on the flip side, if you're a client, walk the house as often as you want. But just know that your builder has not finished yet. He's not really ready for you to inspect his work. You can inspect his work. But if those phone calls every single Saturday add up and they wear on that relationship. So if you take over the draw out of that relationship, make sure to deposit something back at some point.

Taryn (61:57)

I actually, I had that question again because middle of that, what is the best practice for communicating and making those changes and vocalizing them and when and to your like. And so because I want to tell you who tells the sub who tells, but I also want to make sure I'm not like thinning our relationship or beating you up.

Maggie (62:20)

Sure. I think it, I think it's important to communicate in hours that you would want to be communicated with. And there are some times where things are important right now and Saturday at 8:00 at night, it may need to be discussed, but if not, if there's not anybody there working and nothing's going to change, then definitely during business hours is a good time to do that. And having those meetings. I send out a progress report every two weeks to my clients. A lot of my clients are because they're second homes, they don't live in town, so they're not here. And so they want just an update. They want to see what's going on because they're excited about it from afar. And that also helps me to keep them engaged. I've dealt with a lot of clients that were not engaged in the project and so I did not get responses in a timely manner and it dropped the project out. So there's a fine balance between too much and not enough communication with your builder, for sure.

Aaron (63:16)

Yeah, I think. I mean, I totally. Yeah. If it has to be said on Saturday night at 8:00, like, let it be set. But that's. It probably doesn't. And it can wear just on the relationship in that, like, I'm a big proponent of cutting out a middle person. So I know for me, like, if there's something that the client wants changed, I really am not the person to tell that to. It's really more Aaron and then to pass on to a sub. More than likely. I think that I've worked on projects where clients didn't come at all for walkthroughs. And there were major issues at the end and I wasn't even aware of that at the time. And it was not good. It was a long. It was a while ago. But then for the project that Erin and I did together, we were there, if not virtually, then on site. I would say that the framing walkthrough is by far the most important walkthrough ever, because you need to have no time limit. I've done framing walkthroughs that lasted all day. We had to get lunch where you.

Taryn (64:18)

Oh, dear.

Aaron (64:19)

But it's down to where that light switch is placed, making sure there's wire there, making sure that the plumbing is already roughed, where all of those things are going to go. Because like Aaron said, it is so expensive to go back and do it. To me, if you do the legwork on that one big walkthrough, it actually saves on all the walkthroughs.

Maggie (64:40)

Sure.

Aaron (64:40)

A lot of the decisions have already been made. You have seen it before. Walls went up versus changing it. I know something that drives me absolutely crazy is a wall where A thermostat is placed right in the middle. You can't do anything with a wall with a thermostat in the middle. You can't hide it. You can't decorate around. You can't hang anything. So you've got alarm pads and thermostats, and those are big on Maggie's list. And that needs to be decided during frame stage. Yes, these are great.

Maggie (65:12)

You know, again, you hired your contractor for a single source, responsibility and accountability. And so definitely, if you've got any change, you ought to communicate directly with that person, with whoever that contractor is. Subcontractors, all of my subcontractors will openly communicate with the homeowner until it comes to directing them to what job they're supposed to do. They'll talk about football, they'll talk about what's going on at the lake or what, where the fish are biting. But we don't talk about our jobs as far as giving them directives of what to do. All of my subs know this, but they will tell the client that's fine, and I'll be glad to do it, but you really just need to tell Aaron and he'll let me know. So definitely that's what you're paying the general contractor there for, and you're using him and you're going to make him responsible later for something he may or may not have a knowledge of. And so those. Those little conversations that happen on job sites without us being there personally, we definitely need to know about them.

Caroline (66:09)

Let me ask you all about the email thing. Like, okay. Or the changes on a. On a Saturday evening. What if, like, is there a polite way to do it? To be like, hey, Maggie and Erin, I was walking through, I noticed this. Please don't respond until Monday. It's not urgent, but I just wanted to send this email before I forgot because I feel like that's something that I would need to do.

Aaron (66:29)

Because I. I mean, yes, and I appreciate that because chances are the homeowner is having the actual time and space to talk to their spouse or whomever, the walkthrough over that weekend. So I totally understand that. I think that, you know, every job site is going to be good, good master's plans and a designated place where those plans are. I know that contractors check in that, like, makeshift depth on site pretty much every Monday, every day throughout the week. That's a good place to actually type up a little list or set something. Maybe you don't have time to meet, but you can say, hey, just think on this. This is a concern I had over the weekend. I think an email is always really nice. I am a huge one on not texting a chain because my texts are actually for my friends and my family, you know, so if there's a pretty big change, I'm always worried that I'm going to forget to address it. So I'll put. I'll ask for them to put it into an email and CC my assistant on it, which I usually do with Aaron, too. CC his assistant Tristan on there. And that way there's more eyes and ears that see it. But yeah, I mean, to your point, like, if. If you want to reiterate some concerns, especially if you've got kind of a laundry list of those, then send that in an email. I think that's much easier for people to kind of compartmentalize until the work week begins again on Monday morning, but maybe even decide to chew on those until, say, Sunday night when maybe you've had one more thought or kind of couple.

Taryn (68:03)

Yeah.

Maggie (68:03)

You know, so.

Caroline (68:05)

So maybe it just comes down to asking at the beginning of the project, each of your. Your team members, like, how do you want to hear from me when I need to change? Like, do you want a text? Do you want an email? Do you want a phone call? Like, what is, what is your best method? Because, I mean, it sounds to me like y'all are saying that communication is, Is the number one indicator of how well your end result is going to go.

Maggie (68:28)

Sure.

Aaron (68:28)

So.

Maggie (68:29)

And it's definitely gonna affect. It's definitely gonna affect not only expectations, but just attitudes through the project. I know that currently we only take on three clients at a time, and I have a dedicated person for each one of those projects, and I won't take on anymore. And sometimes that's to my detriment just because we can't facilitate each person. I've been through the building process a lot of times, not just being hired out, but personally with my own projects, with my wife going through questions and answers, and what about this and what about that? And, you know, I have a different perspective on it. So I think that definitely that communication, you're gonna. You're gonna want to communicate with people. So the email is fine with me. At any time, you could send an email. If I choose to get on my. My device and check my email at midnight on Saturday, then that's what. That's. That's fine. But I think text and calling, unless it's something really super important and it's not business hours, then. Then again, you may Be best friends with your builder. Hopefully you are. And if you are, you may be at a barbecue with them and say, hey, I was by the house today and by the way, I need you to really look at this. But that, that communication to me is key and it's gonna, it's gonna build throughout the project and have a better, a better outcome. That relationship and that attitude is going to show up in the work for sure.

Aaron (69:55)

Well, for us here at mgd, we create from the first meeting we have with our clients, we create a Google Doc. And so even before there's possibly even a plan, it could just be a sketch from an architect. We start creating that Google Doc, we start with exterior finishes, and then we go room by room by room. So even if you don't have a me, I think a Google Doc that even can be shared with your contractor is huge because it makes the change in real time. We don't share our Google Docs with our clients because they're kind of all over the place, but it's shared between my team and I so that if there's a change that's made on site, we change it immediately in the Google Doc. Like it could be just a paint color or a flooring choice, but if you don't have a designer on board, which a lot of people don't, because they love to do it, they've done it a million times, they kind of know what they want. But even just sharing that with their Erin or their whomever so that it is changed in real time, you can say, hey, I made a couple changes to like my cabinet details last night. Just wanted you to know. So I think that could be really helpful.

Taryn (71:03)

That's some great tips.

Caroline (71:04)

What have we missed? What's on your list to ask?

Taryn (71:08)

Everything. Everything. The only other question I really had right now is what do you think of the percentage changes that you've seen between the architecture drawings and then your final project product? Or just because as I'm continuing as now, I'm walking through framing and again, we were changing where some of the doors were placed and a few little details. I just was wondering what. Yeah, like, I didn't really think about it before, but now I'm like, wait a second. That's why I wanted to know what the percent was normal.

Maggie (71:40)

And this is one of the reasons I, I chose to do a lot of spec homes. Maggie said that the client came in at framing because typically with a custom plan, we average probably. I don't know if you want to put in a percentage, but I would say 8% of the plan would be changed. For instance, the last product is such a specific number.

Aaron (72:00)

I like that.

Maggie (72:01)

Well, I don't know. And then I'm just trying to. I'm trying to think about money wise, how much money it costs to change each thing and 8 or 10% somewhere in there. But they changed the size dates from cedar to. They went with all stone on the project. The whole front of the house is stone. And on the interior they probably changed around five or six walls. Made rooms bigger, some smaller. She was adamant about having a separate his and hers closet instead of just one really huge open space with like a desk or something in the mid. Not a desk. I don't know the word. Island in the middle. Excuse me, an island in the middle. She did not like that idea. She thought that she needed to have a private spot for that and that was real important to her. So we had to go back and change those kind of things. She did not want a tub in her bathroom, so we made her shower twice as big. I would say 10% of the plan would change. Now the overall, as far as the exterior, the exterior very rarely changes in my experience. It's typically interior walls and interior build out.

Aaron (73:08)

Yeah, I totally agree. I think that just during framing there may be some simple changes. Like maybe you thought you were going to do a stacked washer dryer and now you're doing side by sides. Yeah, you know, that's or right. Some people say they're not tub people. And then when it comes down to it, they're like, I want a tub. You know, so that makes a huge difference in a bathroom.

Taryn (73:27)

Yeah, we've definitely made a few changes like that. We're like, do we really need two big tubs in the house? How much do we use tubs? We thought we would, but I don't think we will. So yeah, we've had it's why I was asking is again because when we looked at the architect, you're like, yeah, this is great. I think this is how I want to live. And then again, walking through it now, you're like, do, do I like this? Do I. I don't know. And even the placement of the bed on the plans was on one wall, but he put in little nightstands. And again, I saw it just in plan and didn't like look at what the meas the nightstands was. And then I was like inspiration shopping looking and I was like, I need to. This wall's not big enough. And anyway, so I'm like, well, now.

Caroline (74:07)

We need to do the other wall.

Taryn (74:07)

Which means I need to change the electrical on the other wall. So that's why I was just kind of, now I'm, I'm taking off chunks I can chew. And so unfortunately I've already picked the dimension of the room overall. It's just making sure it now function like now I'm laying out the furniture to your point. And now it's like, does this work? And I'm. Yeah, I already feel like I'm a little late.

Caroline (74:29)

That was why.

Aaron (74:30)

Well, I know for me, I went through room by room and I, I told our architect, I said, this is the size. I mean, we're going to do a king size bed in this room. And this is my average size of nightstand because they will drop in a little 24 inch and it's not big enough.

Taryn (74:45)

Oh yeah, that's what mine did. He was like, oh, you just want, you just want like a, a drink table.

Aaron (74:51)

Yeah, a little cocktail table. And I'll do that for my clients too. If we're having meetings with architects, I'll say this is not, this is not big enough and they'll drop that stuff in. But yeah, I totally agree. You were right to catch that. And yeah, it's not too late.

Maggie (75:06)

You ought to be really comfortable with your contractor so that you can make these changes. Another thing is don't feel, don't feel the other way either. Don't go overboard and feel like you can't. You may be bothering them. That is their job. And my ultimate job is to make the client happy. How we get there, I tell my clients all the time there's, there's no interstate start to finish in a construction project. We're going to take back roads. So there's going to be turns and stop signs and red lights and little small speed trap town. Just take the ride with us. So don't be upset. Things are going to change and definitely be able to be open with that person so they have a responsibility. The contractor has a responsibility, the client has responsibility, and everybody does their job. So that relationship again is going to be super important for these changes.

Caroline (75:57)

What are two things that you each wish your clients knew going into project?

Maggie (76:03)

Well, one, I really take pride in my work and I think that I hope that my clients see through the process and at the end that it matters to me. I don't look at any client that even tells me I've had, I had one client said, hey, I have an unlimited budget. I'm really more concerned about their money. Probably than they are. I want them to get the best and, and practical. So I definitely want them to see that. And I wish that the. My blanketed of clients understood that things change every day and there's really. No, there's so many variables. Even with, you know, shipping. Maggie, I know shipping has really hurt you, but like with COVID I have one subcontractor that they had eight employees and six of them had Covid and one of them ended up passing. And so we were shut down and it stopped the project for probably six, six weeks. And those are things that if you don't have that relationship, the clients can be really upset about it. The contractors are really upset, but there's really nothing else to do. You can't just go out midstream and get somebody else. So seeing that, that level of pride in it, I hope all my clients see that.

Aaron (77:28)

I think kind of definitely to your point, just kind of knowing a caliber of work I think is really important. At the end of the day, I want you to have every single image you show me, every pen, every detail, every beautiful screenshot. I want you to have those things too. But there is a price on those particular items. And we can all watch all the HGTV we want and they're, you know, cutting here and cutting there. It's. I haven't come across those particular things. So, you know, being able to save in those big savings, like they tell you on tv, like just knowing the value of good quality work and that there is a price that is associated with these images, I think for me as a designer is really important to know. I'm trying to give you that, you know, and have our, our taste level and our stamp on it. And at the end of the day, I was. It was all free and I could give my clients everything they've ever dreamed of. But just knowing that when you're building your home there, you have such a balance of. I know it's a lot of money, but at the end of the day, I got everything I wanted and trusting in that caliber of product. Right.

Caroline (78:42)

Any, any. Any last thoughts that you need think people need to know before they. They start building their dream house before we wrap up.

Aaron (78:49)

I do. I. The relationship is really important. My most successful projects are my best relationships. They're the ones that people see. They end up on the pages of magazines and our portfolio and our websites. The projects where there's micromanaging involved and there's so much anxiety that it's not enjoyable are not successful projects. These are hard earned Dollars that are being spent. So I understand that. But also, you know that nobody ever said this was an inexpensive endeavor. So I think that a trust level is really important. And I think, too, just kind of listening to your gut on, I think I built the right team. But also, like Erin said, if it doesn't feel right, then it's okay, and you'll find the person that it does fit with. I have one project right now. We've been working together for two and a half years, and we'll install them in November. And we just have so much fun together. Like, she just. She asks me. It's very collaborative. We. We talk a lot. We. I talk with the builder a lot. I talk with the other subs a lot. And it just is laid back, and it's fun and it's enjoyable. And we said from day one that that was what we wanted. She could have easily, six months ago, been anxious on saying, I can't lose this. I'm finished yet. But she's enjoying it, and it makes it more fun for everybody, you know? And it's like Erin says, all clients are patient until those frames start going up, and then they're like, we got to put the pedal to the metal. So I think just trusting the process and having fun with it is really nice, too. I think it's an opportunity to learn. Learn a lot.

Maggie (80:39)

Absolutely. At the end of the day, this is not brain surgery, so anything can be changed. Not to overreact during the process in any of it. Through the estimating phase, through the designing phase, through the construction. If it's not fun, it's really not really worth doing, and it should be enjoyable. This is all 90% of the people that are probably building right now. They're. They're very blessed. So they're in a position to be able to do this. So just enjoy that moment, and everybody that along in the process should enjoy it. And at the end, you create something great, and you. Hopefully, you. You've built friendships at last.

Aaron (81:21)

I think so, too, because now, like, Aaron can't get rid of me. So now, like, if I purchase a house over, like, a Cuddy, I'm going to call him. Same for our contractor here. Like, he can't get rid of me now, but that's such a great time.

Maggie (81:34)

Absolutely. And we got to have a private conversation after this. Maggie.

Aaron (81:38)

Okay.

Maggie (81:40)

I got to talk to you about something.

Aaron (81:42)

All right.

Taryn (81:42)

I think he's breaking up with you, Maggie.

Aaron (81:46)

We can have a glass of wine or a beer.

Maggie (81:49)

I still got some furniture that's got to get here.

Taryn (81:53)

All right.

Caroline (81:53)

Well, Erin, Maggie, thank you so both so much. I feel like I learned so much.

Aaron (81:59)

Our listeners said too. Yeah, this was fun. Thank you.

Maggie (82:02)

Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed it.

Caroline (82:05)

Would you like Aaron to tell everybody where to find you? Follow you go to website forthcoming, I hear.

Maggie (82:11)

Yes, yes, yes. You can find. We're@freedomconstruction.com also@freedomcompanies.com and hashtag Freedom Construction, please, on everything.

Aaron (82:21)

Maggie at Freedom construction on Instagram.

Maggie (82:25)

Yes, our reed of construction on Instagram. Absolutely. Thank you.

Caroline (82:29)

And that's our show. You can find all of the show notes on our blog howtodecorate.com podcast to.

Taryn (82:34)

Send in a decorating dilemma. Email your questions to podcastallarddesigns.net so we can help you with your space.

Caroline (82:41)

And of course, be sure to follow us on social media. Ballardesigns.

Liz (82:44)

Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. And please leave us a review.

Aaron (82:49)

We'd love to hear your feedback.

Caroline (82:51)

Until next time, Happy decorating.

Taryn (82:57)

Well, what did you guys think? Wasn't it so good?

Caroline (83:01)

I mean, it was so good. Yeah.

Taryn (83:04)

Yeah, she's the best. And it's just a, it's a great preview into the whole house thing. And I think it's again, very specific. But that's what I loved about this, this little miniseries.

Caroline (83:14)

Yeah.

Liz (83:15)

It's so much to take on.

Caroline (83:17)

Yeah.

Liz (83:18)

But all of these episodes are so helpful just to start thinking about the things that you don't always think about when you're starting a big project like this.

Caroline (83:29)

I feel like we tried to really ask questions that people maybe would want to ask, but that wouldn't necessarily feel comfortable. You know, we, like, we talked about money. It's just such an intimidating process. I don't know how you did it, Taryn. It's definitely something that I really enjoy listening to because again, it's, it's like questions that you. You want to ask but, like, don't necessarily feel comfortable about. So I think it's. Yeah, you know, those are always interesting. Yeah.

Taryn (83:59)

But I also love how we each picked such different. Again, like I picked like again, the house series on building a house and Caroline Viking, Susan Ferrier really talk about the moods and the feelings and the vibes. And then Liz with crowdsourcing death because she couldn't pick was hard landed on the G. No.

Caroline (84:20)

Yeah, yeah, it was hard.

Liz (84:21)

Yeah.

Taryn (84:22)

Yeah. The gen are just magical. And again, their books are so fun to go through as well, the G.

Caroline (84:28)

Have a bunch of books. They have. I want to say they have four books.

Taryn (84:33)

They're like their own lifestyle. You know what I mean? So they're fun to kind of dive.

Caroline (84:37)

Into, but you know what I'm saying? Where, like, they have. It's Omni Channel.

Liz (84:41)

Oh, yeah.

Caroline (84:44)

Speaking of which. So all three are like the Martha Stewart documentary.

Liz (84:48)

Oh, it's so good.

Caroline (84:49)

Oh, Taryn, you got to.

Taryn (84:51)

Okay. All right. All right, guys.

Aaron (84:53)

Sorry.

Taryn (84:54)

You know, I can.

Caroline (84:56)

Yes.

Taryn (84:58)

Well, just to finish this out. It is. It is a new year, and it is 2025. We are super excited for a very fun year that's already packed with great guests ahead. But we wanted to remind everyone to please submit any kind of decorating dilemmas. Nothing's too small or big. We would love to hear more, and we love after pictures, too. So we have so many great guests to answer that I promise it will be wildly worth it for their advice. To get a true, like, good designer's answer will be fantastic.

Caroline (85:33)

You know, I was gonna say, okay, we love this about the show. Everyone sends very detailed questions, and they send pictures, and they, like, have a real specific, like, this is my room, and I want to know what to do with it. And those. We love those all day. But you can also send us, like, you know, softballs, like, if. I don't know, maybe it's like. Yeah, it doesn't have. It doesn't have to be, like, a whole room thing. It could be, like, what is your opinion on, you know.

Taryn (85:59)

Oh, yeah.

Liz (86:00)

Did I pick the right color for. For my walls? Did the. These drapes go with everything?

Caroline (86:05)

Or, like, can you talk about, I don't know, like, seagrass rug? It could be. It could be anything. So anyway, I was just gonna throw that out there because I feel like maybe, like, that's kind of the questions everyone sends or, like, real. The big things, and we love that. But you can also send us, like, quick, quick little guys, too. We like this.

Liz (86:26)

We get such great emails from our. From our listeners. I love our emails.

Caroline (86:31)

Best listeners. I know. They're great. Thank you all, and thank you all for listening. I know this is the first episode of the year, so thank you all for sticking through us. We're again, we're nearing 400 episodes. We're kind of trying to think through what that episode could be, because I feel like it's got to be a good one. But, yeah, we are so grateful that you're here with us and tune in every week. And, yeah, thanks for listening. We appreciate it.

Liz (86:57)

Happy New Year.

Caroline (86:58)

Yeah, Happy New Year. And that's our show. You can find all of the show notes on our blog howtodecorate.com podcast to.

Taryn (87:06)

Send in a decorating dilemma, email your questions to podcastallarddesigns.net so we can help you with your space.

Caroline (87:12)

And of course, be sure to follow us on social media.

Liz (87:15)

Alardesigns don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcast so you never miss an episode. And please leave us us a review. We'd love to hear your feedback.

Caroline (87:22)

Until next time, happy Decorating.