Ep. 407: Spring Gardening Tips from Landscape Architect Brantley Snipes - Outdoor Mini-Series Pt. 1

Summary

Podcast Summary: Ep. 407: Spring Gardening Tips from Landscape Architect Brantley Snipes - Outdoor Mini-Series Pt. 1

Title: How to Decorate
Host/Author: Ballard Designs
Episode: Ep. 407: Spring Gardening Tips from Landscape Architect Brantley Snipes - Outdoor Mini-Series Pt. 1
Release Date: April 1, 2025

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Introduction to the Spring Gardening Mini-Series

In this inaugural episode of Ballard Designs' four-part Spring Gardening Mini-Series, hosts Caroline, Taryn, and Liz welcome back Brantley Snipes, a renowned Mississippi-based landscape architect. Brantley shares insights from her extensive experience, offering listeners a deep dive into effective spring gardening and landscape planning.

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Optimal Timing for Spring Gardening Projects

Key Topic: When to Begin Spring Gardening

Brantley emphasizes the importance of timing in garden planning:

"[00:02:08] Brantley Snipes: 'Don't start your spring pots until after Easter to avoid frost damage.'"

She advises delaying potting until after potential Easter freezes to ensure plants can thrive. Brantley notes, “It is late this year, but you will still always get an Easter freeze” [00:02:52], underscoring the unpredictability of spring weather.

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Comprehensive Landscape Planning

Key Topic: Strategic Planning and Phasing Projects

Brantley discusses the advantages of phasing landscaping projects, allowing homeowners to allocate budgets effectively:

"[00:03:35] Brantley Snipes: 'Landscaping can be tackled bit by bit, unlike building a house where neglecting one room complicates the entire structure.'"

She outlines a typical timeline: design and planning during winter, hardscape installation in the summer, and planting in the fall [00:04:08]. This phased approach ensures optimal conditions for each stage, enhancing the longevity and aesthetics of the landscape.

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Essential Components of Landscape Budgets

Key Topic: Budgeting for Hardscapes and Soil Preparation

Brantley sheds light on the often-overlooked aspects of landscaping that require substantial investment:

"[00:12:17] Brantley Snipes: 'Grading, drainage, and dirt work can consume up to $30,000 of your landscape budget.'"

She explains that preparing the soil and ensuring proper drainage are critical foundations for a successful garden, preventing issues like water damage and soil compaction. Additionally, Brantley advises on selecting hardscape materials based on budget and desired aesthetics, comparing costs and benefits of concrete, brick, bluestone, and fire rock.

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Choosing the Right Hardscape Materials

Key Topic: Material Selection and Design Aesthetics

Brantley explores various hardscape materials, offering cost and functionality insights:

• Concrete:

  "[00:19:17] Brantley Snipes: 'Concrete is the most affordable option at $10-$12 per square foot. We can enhance its appearance with integral dyes and textures.'"

• Bluestone and Flagstone:

  "[00:21:40] Brantley Snipes: 'Bluestone and flagstone offer a refined look at approximately $38-$40 per square foot, ideal for tying in with home architecture.'"

• Fire Rock (Fire Rot):

  "[00:22:38] Brantley Snipes: 'Fire rock remains cooler underfoot during hot summers, making it an excellent choice for pool decks.'"

She highlights the importance of limiting material types to maintain cohesion within the landscape, recommending no more than three different materials to avoid a disjointed appearance [00:24:40].

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Effective Plant Installation Techniques

Key Topic: Proper Planting Methods and Soil Management

Brantley provides detailed guidance on planting techniques to ensure healthy growth:

"[00:30:23] Brantley Snipes: 'Plant shallow and wide—twice the width of the root ball, but no deeper. Allow the root ball to protrude an inch above the soil level.'"

She warns against using potting soil for in-ground planting, advocating for soil conditioners instead to prevent water retention issues that can harm plant roots [00:35:02]. For larger beds with heavy clay (referred to as "gumbo"), Brantley recommends extensive soil amendment and tilling to improve aeration and drainage [00:35:48].

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Designing Functional and Aesthetic Patios

Key Topic: Patio Planning and Integration with Existing Landscapes

Discussing patio design, Brantley emphasizes functionality tailored to the homeowner’s lifestyle:

"[00:37:56] Brantley Snipes: 'Determine the primary use of your patio—whether it's for morning coffee, dining, or entertaining—and design accordingly.'"

She recommends standard patio sizes of 10x10 to 15x15 feet and advises integrating features like grills, seating areas, and pathways that complement the home’s architecture and existing landscape elements. Additionally, Brantley stresses the importance of preserving tree protection zones to maintain healthy root systems and prevent structural damage [00:37:32].

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Dealing with Common Landscaping Challenges

Key Topic: Managing Weeds and Deer

Brantley addresses persistent issues such as weed control and deer management:

"[00:51:32] Brantley Snipes: 'Hand-pulling is effective for crabgrass, but it requires consistent effort across multiple seasons.'"

For dealing with deer, she suggests using deer-resistant plants and considering fragrant varieties to deter browsing. Although unconventional methods like using goat grazing are mentioned, Brantley highlights the necessity of balanced approaches to avoid exacerbating wildlife issues [00:58:15].

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Innovative Ground Cover Solutions

Key Topic: Alternatives to Traditional Grass

Brantley discusses options beyond turf grass, including:

• Pea Gravel:

  "[00:25:17] Brantley Snipes: 'Pea gravel requires meticulous edging and regular maintenance to prevent scattering.'"

• AstroTurf:

  "[00:44:35] Brantley Snipes: 'Artificial turf offers a maintenance-free alternative but is costly and best used in confined areas.'"

• Native Ground Covers and Clover:

  "[00:47:54] Brantley Snipes: 'Ground covers like clover provide environmental benefits and reduce maintenance, though they may not withstand heavy foot traffic.'"

She emphasizes selecting ground cover based on site conditions and desired maintenance levels, advocating for a harmonious blend of aesthetics and functionality.

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Final Thoughts and Upcoming Topics

As the episode concludes, Brantley encourages listeners to reach out with their landscaping questions and highlights her new venture, Half Moon Living, focused on outdoor design and installation. The hosts tease the upcoming episodes, which will delve deeper into plant selection, potting techniques, houseplants, flower arranging, and outdoor entertaining.

"[00:66:05] Brantley Snipes: 'Feel free to contact me with any questions, and stay tuned for more in-depth discussions in the upcoming episodes.'"

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Notable Quotes

• Brantley Snipes on Timing:

  "[00:02:08] 'Don't start your spring pots until after Easter to avoid frost damage.'"

• On Landscaping Phasing:

  "[00:03:35] 'Landscaping can be tackled bit by bit, unlike building a house where neglecting one room complicates the entire structure.'"

• Budgeting Insights:

  "[00:12:17] 'Grading, drainage, and dirt work can consume up to $30,000 of your landscape budget.'"

• Material Selection:

  "[00:19:17] 'Concrete is the most affordable option at $10-$12 per square foot.'"

• Planting Techniques:

  "[00:30:23] 'Plant shallow and wide—twice the width of the root ball, but no deeper.'"

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Conclusion

Episode 407 serves as a comprehensive guide for homeowners embarking on spring gardening and landscaping projects. Brantley Snipes imparts valuable knowledge on planning, budgeting, material selection, planting, and tackling common challenges, ensuring listeners are well-equipped to create beautiful and functional outdoor spaces. Tune in next week for more expert advice on plants, pots, and outdoor entertaining.

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Find Brantley Snipes Landscape Design on Instagram and Facebook @BrantleySnipesLandscapeDesign. Visit halfmoonliving.com for her latest projects.

Transcript

[Caroline]

Welcome to how to Decorate from Ballard Designs, a weekly podcast all about the trials and triumphs of decorating and redecorating your home. I'm Caroline. I'm on the marketing team. And I'm Taryn and I'm a product designer.

[Liz]

I'm Liz. I head of the creative team. We're your hosts.

[Caroline]

Join the expert team at Ballard Designs for tips, tricks and tales from interior designers, stylists and other talents in the design world. Plus, we'll answer your decorating dilemmas at.

[Brantley Snipes]

The end of each episode.

[Liz]

We love answering your questions, so don't forget to email [e-mail] now, on with the show.

[Caroline]

Okay, this week we're excited to introduce a special four part spring gardening mini series. So for the next four weeks, we are going to be covering everything, spring and gardening, from landscaping, setting up your outdoor space, planting, refreshing your pots for spring, house plants, shopping at the nursery, and even flower arranging and outdoor entertaining. And our first guests, we're excited to welcome back Mississippi based landscape architect, Brantley Snipes.

[Brantley Snipes]

Hey, ladies.

[Caroline]

She leads her own eponymous firm, Brantley Snipes Landscape Design, where she serves as owner, lead designer and project manager. And she just launched her latest venture, Half Moon Living, where she does full service installation projects. So, okay, Brantley, we had you on the show last. We talked about landscaping, we've talked about mulch, we've talked about pools, patios. I feel like we covered it all, but we had such a great time. We had to bring you back.

[Brantley Snipes]

I could do it all day.

[Liz]

There's always so much more to talk about. And I feel like right now is the time where I don't know. I know I'm getting the itch for like getting my plants right.

[Brantley Snipes]

It's like we were just talking about those first daffodils start popping and it is like spring, it's time to go.

[Liz]

It's magic.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah. It's good. We made it. We survived another winter.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And it feels like with spring, there's so many possibilities. And you're thinking, like, what possibilities are there in my yard that I haven't capitalized on? You are so great at explaining exactly what we need to know and the planning all through the installation. And I, I took away so much from our last conversation. I'm excited to, you know, start again, but also ask some follow ups.

[Brantley Snipes]

Okay.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Yeah, let's do it.

[Brantley Snipes]

And also a caveat for spring, don't go. Start doing your spring pots yet. Wait till after Easter. It is warm. Things are blooming. But we will get an Easter freeze. And that is something that I have to, like, go toe to toe with with clients every year. That first flush of like 70 degrees, blue sky, temps. Everybody's like, I'm going to do my pots. And you're like, and then it's going to right there at Easter. So just a caveat before we go too far into things, don't do your pots until after Easter. There will be plenty of times. I had a friend trying to plant zinnias last week, and I was like, host sister. We're not there yet, so we're close. Yeah, let's, let's, let's kind of ease into it and talk about some other things we can be doing before we do pots.

[Caroline]

But Easter's also late this year.

[Brantley Snipes]

It is late this year, but you will still always get an Easter freeze. That is an old deep South. Like, it may come the week of Easter, but you will get. Yeah, we'll put money on it. When I leave this afternoon. We'll see. Okay.

[Liz]

Easter or tax day.

[Brantley Snipes]

Like, yes, that's a good one, too. So it's all somewhere, you know, mid April, but we do. You're right. We do have a late Easter this year, but always just to be on the safe side.

[Caroline]

Okay, well, I did want to talk a little bit about planning because I think that, you know, it's all well and good to want to plan your pots, but some of us might need a little bit more work than that. Maybe we have bigger projects that we need to accomplish. And, you know, I know probably for some of your projects, they're multi year.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah. You know, amazing. And that's the great part about landscaping is you can take it bits and pieces at each time. And it's not like you're building a house and you get the dining room done and you're like, well, we didn't get a bathroom in. So, you know, we can really look at phasing things in and allocating your budget accordingly and how you want to spend money and, you know, how we want to go about that.

[Caroline]

Well, talk us through the planning process. Like, what is a reasonable timeline? If you, you know, you, you've, you're in your house, you know, there's a lot of options outdoors, but you have a vision or you want someone to help you with your vision.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And you want to, you know, it's early March, early April that you have yet.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

What is, what should you. What's a realistic timeline?

[Brantley Snipes]

If you want to do something big, that's a Great. You know, and I'm a. The older I get, and the more I do this, the more I'm a big advocate on doing things at the right time of year. So, you know, you are thinking about being outside, you're ready to be outside, you know, but we also, like, if we're doing a patio, let's say we're ready to do a patio. We've got it designed right now. We are still dealing with the ground still being very wet, freezing, and thawing, you know, so you're really. Your best time to really look at doing hardscapes is in the hot, dry summer months. You want to be planning now, but you actually want to install any kind of hardscape material in the summer when it's hot and dry. And that means that your ground moisture is correct, the temperatures are right. You know, concrete gets kind of funky if it gets too cold too quick. You know, you can get some weird calcification within the concrete. So it's great to get out there and do things, but thinking through when to do it is the best time. So ideally, when you're installing, you're designing and planning during the winter months, you're getting going on your hardscaping when it starts to dry and get warmer. And then fall is your best time to install shrubs. So that is your ideal. Perfect. I would sleep great at night if every project was followed that timeline. Yeah. Okay. And, you know, if you're. We're doing a lot of this lately with new construction, with homes. Please invite your landscape architect to the table before the home gets built. You know, there's a lot to be thinking about in terms of grading, drainage, where your hardscape's going to go, how many steps, how you're going to get to it, where you're going to turn the car around. And I've watched so many clients make the mistake of being like, oh, we need to put some plants in the ground. And they haven't thought through all the logistics.

[Caroline]

How could you have not thought through your. I mean, your driveway?

[Brantley Snipes]

So. And a lot of times, I do love architects. I work with a lot of really good architects. Architects or home designers will just throw one in and not really think through the approach to the house or where you're going to park. And, you know, we as humans are lazy. We want to get to that door as fast as possible. We want guests to use the front door. We want to use the back door, you know, and so that's stuff that really needs to be thought about in the overall design process.

[Caroline]

Right.

[Brantley Snipes]

You know, and then, of course, if you've got an existing home and you've lived there and you're ready to do some renovations, you know your flow, you know your circulation, you know where you'd like the space, and that's. That gives you an opportunity to do that.

[Caroline]

Okay, let's talk about driveways. Because, you know, it seems like such a important aspect if you're building something new, because like you said, like, that's how you're going to. Well, functionally, that's how you're gonna get into your house every day. Sure. But then for any guests, you wanna put your best foot forward. So is there. You know, do you hide it? Where do you put your. Like, what. What are you do.

[Brantley Snipes]

Both.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

And it's all a private residence, but I call it a public entrance. And I call it a private entrance because you don't want guests who are coming to dinner to come through the carport where they're tripping over basketballs and kids bikes and pool noodles and stuff. So I try to keep that in mind when we're doing a design with a client is get people to the front door. People spend a lot of money on the front porch, the front door, the front lighting, and then it goes away because everybody's just driving up. And it's. It's a very. It's a very kind of intricate balance of getting them in the right spot and getting them too close. We're doing this right now on a project in Oxford where we were trying to move the parking, but we moved it around the corner, which put the back door in the visual sight. And I was like, nobody's going to come to your front door. They're going to see your back door. That's the place. That's the path of least resistance. That's where they're going to go into your house. Like, let's do it over here, where you pull up, you see the entire front, and you can't wait to walk down the pathway up to the door on the front and really be immersed in that. So you really kind of need to look at it. Especially when you're laying out a house, if it's a perfectly blank space, spot of, you know, where's the carport going to be? Where's the front going to be? Do we want it to face east, west? You know, are we catching the sun? You kind of got to play with that, too. So it's a lot of factors that come into play, but I always. My philosophy on that is public entrance Private entrance. And do not give anybody the choice, because given the choice, they're going to be your best friend and they're going to come in through the carport and see.

[Liz]

No, that's totally true.

[Brantley Snipes]

You know, it is rude, you know, but it's like, you know, the garages and carports are there for a reason, so you can just hide a bunch of stuff over there.

[Caroline]

Storage.

[Brantley Snipes]

It's storage, right? Yeah.

[Caroline]

Okay. What about if you've got, like, a. A neighborhood, My neighborhood, for example, Guests mostly park on the street. So, like, walking up the driveway is not particularly charming.

[Brantley Snipes]

Sure.

[Caroline]

What do you do for, like, you know, do you have a path? Does the path go straight? Do you weave it around? Like, how do you make it look?

[Brantley Snipes]

You make it as easy as possible.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

For them to get to the street. And then also, like, if you are, say, the opportunity to get a sidewalk to the street isn't available and you need to get them up the driveway, I would come up a certain length on the driveway and then offer a walkway. And that's when you come in with landscape lighting, with, you know, your shrubs, your flowers, and you create more of an experience where it's like, oh, if I'm coming to your house for dinner, it's dusk, you've got your carport lights off. But I see the landscape lighting kind of lead me up a path, and I'm, like, checking out different flowers along the way and the daffodils that are coming up, you know, so you make it. You want your entrance to be an experience for guests, however that is. But you also want to make it again as close to that front door as possible or it won't get used.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Okay. So we do the design work in the winter.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yes.

[Caroline]

We build hardscape in the summer, and then we install all of our plants in the fall. So what would you say is a reasonable expectation for when your house or your landscape is going to look, like, done?

[Brantley Snipes]

Is that, like, done?

[Caroline]

Like, three years, five years?

[Brantley Snipes]

18 months.

[Caroline]

18 months.

[Brantley Snipes]

18. 18 months. After you put your landscape in, they'll spend the first. See. And this is why we plant in the fall. Plants go dormant, of course, in the wintertime, but they are getting their root systems kind of situated, and so that allows them to kind of, like, get situated. And then when spring hits, they'll kind of grow, and then the next spring is when they'll really kind of flush out and really start blooming. So that's kind of your 18 months is about when you'll really start to see things. I had a client one time, they.

[Caroline]

Were like, 18 months after you plant.

[Brantley Snipes]

After you plant?

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yes. Okay. So you need one full growing season, year plus, about six months, you know, and I'm notorious. We'll finish a project and it'll look very sparse when we do it. I designed a scale because I don't think landscapes need to be over planted, and clients will be like, well, it looks kind of sparse. I said, give it 18 months. And I really did. I had one call me, and they were like, you know, you were right about that. Everything's grown and filled in. I was like, well, you know, yeah, there's. There's some to it, but, you know, if you come in and you crowd a lot just to get that instant impact. Give it 18 months. Everything you're pruning, everything's growing into each other, and it's just. It creates just a maintenance nightmare over the course of time.

[Caroline]

So that makes sense.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Caroline]

Wow.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Because two years, that's a lot. I mean, it's a long time. It's a lot of time.

[Brantley Snipes]

But I mean, you are making a big investment, you know, and that's something to be thinking about. But that's when you come in while you're waiting on things to grow. You know, you've got your fun pots that you're changing out, and you're just kind of like giving it time because they are dynamic and they are changing and they are growing. And so you want to give it the best running start that you can.

[Liz]

Okay, so if we're planting in the fall, we're talking about second spring, basically.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yes.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Caroline]

Okay. Can we talk about something that no one wants to talk about, which is budget?

[Brantley Snipes]

Yes, absolutely. Please.

[Caroline]

What? I mean, obviously the size of the project is going to matter and what the scope is, but, like, can you give people some insight into what some different projects might cost? And.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah, so. And that's. We deal with this a lot because, you know, a lot of times at the end of new construction, they'll be like, okay, here's $10,000. And you're like, okay, well, that's, you know, that's your front yard beds. Like, that's about what that's gonna cover. And so that's another reason to bring on a landscape architect or designer at the start of a project. So we're always constantly kind of thinking through budget. I've learned to be the stepchild on projects where it's like, everybody's so excited when they start building that house, and then they get to the end of it. And they're like, we're over budget. There's no money. What can you. Can you just put some sod down and you're like. But no, we were so excited. We. Visions of grandeur of everything we were going to plant and build, you know, so budget is incredibly important to think about at the beginning, you know, and there's a lot of stuff that you're going to pay for that I call unfun money that you're not going to see. Right. Because another thing to having a landscape have a lot of longevity is you want your grading and drainage appropriate. You want the irrigation done correctly. And that can be $30,000 out the gate on like a full landscape install or more. You know, that is a significant portion of the budget goes to grading, drainage, dirt work. And I'm sorry, I hate to say this, it sucks. You don't see any of that, you know, but it's the foundation, it's not the pretty stuff, you know.

[Caroline]

So when you say dirt work and drainage, like, just describe some things that.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Some problems that might be solving or what.

[Brantley Snipes]

So let's. Let's say you're building a new construction or you've done a remodel and you're wanting to do an add on. You've had a lot of equipment, you've had heavy trucks, you've had materials on site. And what all of that is doing is compacting the soil. And then most of the time it's just raw dirt. The rains come in, it's pushed runnels, it's got a bunch of wash. You know, you've lost a lot of dirt. There's just kind of a mess at the end of construction based on water movement and compaction from big trucks and materials that we have to use to do that. So you want to come in when you say dirt work. You want to get the top layer of soil back on. You want to reduce the compaction. Because a plant's roots cannot grow into compacted soil. You want that loamy and aerated so that that root system, when you get those plants in, are very like, they're ready to grow. They're not having to fight, you know, to grow on that. That's what I mean when I say dirt work. You know, you really. We gotta make sure we've got positive drainage away from the house. You'd be surprised how many times we see it directed towards the house. You know, if you've got gutters, if you don't have gutters, where are the gutters? Going, you don't have to have gutters. We can do French drains and drip lines and stuff like that, which is rock. And more grading and drainage and stuff, you know, that's. That gets very expensive. But you really want to make sure you're avoiding compaction. You've got positive drainage away from the house. You're accommodating for where your downspouts are. You know, you don't want a downspout just coming right on top of a patio, you know, and these are things that again, having a landscape architect at the beginning, we're really thinking through where we're going to move water on that.

[Liz]

And have you already done the soil testing at this point too, to figure out like how you need to amend the soil?

[Brantley Snipes]

Yes and no. It kind of depends on where we are, if we feel like we need to. I'm fairly familiar with the soils at this point and know what's going to grow in our area. So really, instead of spending a lot of time on soil tests, because soil profiles can be so different throughout the site, we really just mainly focus on reducing compaction and getting positive drainage. Because you can have more trouble calls from water on a landscape than any other, any other problem.

[Caroline]

Okay, so you've spent $30,000 putting.

[Brantley Snipes]

You're like, oh God, no, I'm not going to landscape. This is ridiculous. This is my go. But trust me, this is, this is worth the investment on that part.

[Caroline]

Well, but you know, if you've got a realistic expectation, this is much better than getting it all designed.

[Brantley Snipes]

This is a full brand new 3,000 square foot. You know, this is a large scale new construction project. If we're just doing French drains in your backyard or checking things like that before we put in a patio, I mean, it's going to be much less. But you know, that's. You're not going to spend $30,000 every time.

[Caroline]

Right, right, right.

[Brantley Snipes]

Nobody worries.

[Caroline]

Okay, but you, you've got your, you know, that not fun part, right? Done. Done. Your drainage is good. Your soil is not compacted.

[Brantley Snipes]

And then you got your flat. Your other non fun part is the. Yes, that's expensive too, right? Yes.

[Caroline]

Okay, so go tell us about that.

[Brantley Snipes]

Which can be beautiful. And I'm not trying to scare people away, you know, but hardscapes can be very expensive and that's why you want to utilize your space. You don't want to over build, you don't want to under build. You want to really make sure you've got everything that you want to do on the outside. On your outside patio, you give your. The designer the list, and then they can accommodate the square footage accordingly so that you don't have a vast sea of concrete. We do this a lot for pool clients because I've always refused to be the pool contractor that comes in, puts a pool, and just does 8 giant feet of concrete in a square around it. You know, so we really work with clients. We're like, okay, are we laying out. Do you want to read a book while your kids somewhere else playing in the pool? You know, really utilizing it, it's a big, scary number. But if you utilize it in a way where you're not just doing, you know, a 20 by 20 pad, because that's what somebody dropped in the plan, and you're like, okay, well, I really could get by more with like a 12 by 15. And, you know, here's where the fireplace is going to go, and here's where our little kitchen's going to go. And that. That works out, you know, but to efficiency. Efficiency.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Brantley Snipes]

Great work. Yes. I forget about that word. But you. You want to be efficient with how you utilize your space. So you're not spending more unfun money because we've. We've. We've spent a lot of unfun money at this point in your project.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Okay, so are there different, I guess, dollar amounts associated with different materials that maybe would help people kind of get an idea for what makes sense?

[Brantley Snipes]

So concrete's going to be your least expensive, which there's a lot of really cool stuff we can do with concrete now. You know, you're looking at anywhere from 10 to $12 a square foot to do concrete.

[Liz]

Okay. What are some fun things you can do with concrete?

[Brantley Snipes]

Now, isn't that funny? That's like a weird sentence to say. I know concrete can be fun.

[Liz]

I know.

[Brantley Snipes]

You kind of caught me there, like, oh, it could. You've got your traditional just broom finish. Concrete. We do a lot on our pool decks. We'll do a broom finish, and then we'll come in and we'll score it, which are big. Just cut lines that can. And those can be any size. We do larger ones that kind of give a little bit of detail and accentuation. So it's not just, again, a sea of concrete. It kind of breaks up that visual plane of larger concrete areas. You can, I feel like Bubba Gump on Forrest Gump named. Everything you do is from. This is everything you do with concrete. You can color it. There's integral dyes. I do not believe in painting Concrete. I've never seen it work. But what you can do are integral dyes that you mix in while the concrete's being mixed in the truck. We can get you. You've got a rainbow of colors on that. You can salt finish it, which comes in and you put rock salt, and it makes these cool little divots in the surface, which kind of helps for anti slip. You can do a brick border. You can do a brick joint to kind of dress it up a little bit, you know, so it's not, you know, especially if you've got a brick house, but if it's too much brick for doing a brick patio, normally, we'll come in and we'll say, all right, well, this part will be concrete. We're going to do a nice little brick border, and then we'll do a brick ribbon or a little brick inset within a larger piece of concrete. So, again, we don't want a giant sea of concrete in your backyard. So those are some of my favorite things to do with concrete.

[Caroline]

But, like, you could dress it up and make it not look commercial.

[Brantley Snipes]

Absolutely. Yes. There are a lot of options. And, you know, if you're looking at, let's say it's $12 a square foot. I mean, we are in Atlanta. I know Mississippi prices are a little bit different, but, you know, you're really only adding A$2 per square foot for each finish that you may want to do. So you could spend $16 a square foot getting a really cool concrete finish versus 38, $40 a square foot doing bluestone or flagstone.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

And still get a really nice, refined finished look that ties in with the architecture of your house.

[Caroline]

Right. Okay. Yeah, that's helpful. So would you say those are probably the three biggest materials. Concrete, brick, and like a bluestone or.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yes, flagstone. Bluestone. There's a really great. There's a fire rock paver that keeps. If you're really worried about burning your feet, it's. It keeps the temperature much cooler on that. So we are doing a lot of pool decks out of the fire rock. I was kind of hesitant at first. I was like, there's no way in the Mississippi Delta summer that this is going to keep the temperature down. But it's incredible, you know, so it's another really good option, but odd choice of name. Yes. And it's called fire rot.

[Caroline]

Yes.

[Brantley Snipes]

But it's the same material that they use on the inside of chimneys to keep the fire.

[Liz]

Yes.

[Brantley Snipes]

Okay. It's. It's. They've taken that and hope they don't come after me for getting this wrong. But it's the, it's the chimney, you know, on the inset of chimneys that you see, they've taken that and now we've got four different colors and we can do it for coping. And different pat patterns on the hardscape.

[Caroline]

Okay. That's cool.

[Brantley Snipes]

If you're not like firing it up, you know. And we did. We, my partner, Tommy Walton in the half moon business, took a temperature gun last summer and we hit concrete, brick, bluestone, fire rock with the temperature gun in, like July. And brick and bluestone are your hottest. The other ones.

[Caroline]

Interesting.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caroline]

So were concrete and the fire rock similar or was it cool?

[Brantley Snipes]

It was cooler.

[Caroline]

Interesting.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah. Concrete's gonna be your best bet.

[Caroline]

Concrete was the coolest next to fire rock. Oh, okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caroline]

All right. So. So let's talk about pavers, because I feel like when you say paver, I think of like Home Depot pavers.

[Brantley Snipes]

That they're like a dollar. Yeah. In the corner. They don't look great. Yeah.

[Caroline]

So are there other paver options?

[Brantley Snipes]

Is it the way you install it? There's a lot of paver options. And I say that I, I use paver as, like, flagstone can be a paver, bluestone can be a paper. I mean, these are high end, high qualities. But to me, in my, in my vocabulary, a paver is what we come in and we put on top of, like a concrete footer on that. You can do the least expensive ones. You're not going to get that really refined finished look. We don't do that a lot. Those are kind of the main ones that we stick to. And also with hardscapes, I'm real big on not letting clients have more than three in their total landscape project.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

If you've got, let's say you've got an existing concrete, you've got some brick, and you've got, you know, we could come in. That would be a good option to come in and maybe tie in some flagstone to keep it simpler, you know. But if you start getting more than that, you're going to get really disjointed within your cohesion, within your landscape plan. So you really kind of want to stick to three. One could be gravel. If you've got a gravel pathway. Brick, concrete, you know.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

Like that.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Caroline]

That's a good rule.

[Brantley Snipes]

Kind of a good rule.

[Caroline]

I think most people are gonna have concrete for like a driveway or something.

[Brantley Snipes]

Concrete's kind of a given. So then you gotta kind of pick, you know, do you want to go more of the natural stone look? Do you want to go the more formal blue stone look? Do you really like the classical brick?

[Caroline]

Okay. You mentioned gravel. Can I ask you about pea gravel? Because I truly don't understand this option. Yeah. Like, it drives me crazy. How do you blow it? How do you keep it clean? I don't.

[Brantley Snipes]

Don't do pea gravel. But it gets in your shoe crevices. It comes inside. It gets in your car.

[Liz]

It travels.

[Brantley Snipes]

It travels. Yeah, it travels.

[Caroline]

But I feel like people use it and make it look pretty. But then I'm like, how.

[Brantley Snipes]

You've really got to put some effort into it, and you've got to get the edging to keep it defined. Not the plastic edging that you can also get at a big box store. You know, there's really good metal edging. We use a lot of the edge. Right. Material that is core 10 steel hammered in. It's holding it in there. We're doing a lot. If you. If you're insistent on the gravel pathway, you like the sound of it, or you think you're trying to save money, which you're really not. You're not really saving that much more on gravel versus actually just pouring concrete. We're doing a lot with chipped slate, which is a wider, flatter, larger stone that doesn't travel as much. It will travel. It will move. And if. And then again, check your water, because if you've got a big water event coming through, if you don't have got a drainage problem, it's still going to wash everything away. Because slate, it is a lightweight material, so it will move, but it's not going to move as bad as, say, like, pea gravel.

[Caroline]

Yeah. I just never understand, like, I feel like it can look pretty, like in France.

[Brantley Snipes]

Oh, it's beautiful in France. But you don't see the whole, like, army of, like.

[Caroline]

Don't you have to, like, redo it? Yeah.

[Liz]

How are you have to do that.

[Brantley Snipes]

Like, at least once a year. Once a year at least. I don't think our lifestyle of vehicular traffic, kids running around.

[Caroline]

Leaves.

[Brantley Snipes]

Leaves. You know, like, if you're seeing it out in, like, a French chateau, there's not overhanging oaks and things like that. You know, it's very much manicured, and it's probably been there so long that there's a very good layer of it, you know, and a good foundation of it on that. Yeah.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Caroline]

All right. So we've. We've kind of touched on budget what about, like, we. We talked about, like, the hardscape part. What about the planting? Like, what about the plants?

[Brantley Snipes]

Plants are my favorite part. Okay. You know, I'm like, oh, this is. This is where it gets fun, is when you get to do the plants. And if you're. If you're set on. I really want instant impact. I'm under budget, which. I sound like the, like, poor, beaten stepchild. Again, I'm like, well, you're never, like, under budget, but, you know, if you want the instant impact, you don't really want to wait the full 18 months. You know, you can spend more money on larger plant materials. Most of your installed shrubs are going to be a three gallon, you know, but if I've got clients that are really wanting to get an immediate screen or immediate impact, like, ready to go, don't have the patience. Like, we want to enjoy it now, we'll go up to like a 7 or a 10 or a 15 gallon in some of the shrubs. Now, you're tripling the price of your install with larger shrubs because it takes more time, it takes more fuel money to move them and transport them and ship them, you know, but on average, if you were to do a full landscape front yard and backyard plants alone, I would say you'd want to budget somewhere in the 10 to 20 range. You know, I'd say. I'd say you could do a really quality front yard for around five to six. And that would include pine straw and stuff, too.

[Caroline]

And labor.

[Brantley Snipes]

And labor.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah. I hope I'm right, because those are our Mississippi prices that we price, you know, But I think we do a lot of work, you know, in and around all throughout the state, and that's kind of competitive with what a lot of my contractors are charging.

[Caroline]

Okay. That's not as bad as I would have thought.

[Brantley Snipes]

Planning is really not. That's. That's where you get your really. That's the best part about it. It's like putting the icing on the cake, you know, where you get to really see the pretty pieces and you get the blooms and you get to really think through, you know, what's blooming in the spring and what's going to bloom in the summer, and really making sure you've got kind of an awesome visual palette with plant material.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

I think in one of our first conversations, you talked a lot about having it installed professionally as being really important.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yes.

[Caroline]

And so that was really helpful for me because I got so many of those things I never really considered. You know, you talked about, like, Prepping the soil and planning at the right depth, the right space, and all that. So if anyone wants to go back and listen to that episode.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yes, that is very important. Anybody. They're like, well, anybody can dig a hole. Well, sure, everybody can dig a hole. But there's a. There's very much a science to getting a plant in the ground, and I am very particular about that.

[Caroline]

Okay, so what are things people do wrong? Like, too deep, too wide.

[Brantley Snipes]

Okay. Too deep. The number one thing I see is over watering and your plants are too deep. And just. I think we talked about this last time. Imagine, you know, I don't want to be wearing a wool sweater with a turtleneck in July. And your plants don't either. You know, they need air, they need light all the way through their little root systems.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

So if I was doing it myself, how do I know how deep to put it? Does the top of the soil of the thing go exactly level with the.

[Brantley Snipes]

You want to go with the root ball. Yeah, the root ball. Yeah. So you're the top of the soil, and the root ball needs to stick out about an inch from the top of the soil.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

And then you want to go two times as wide. You don't want to go. What was that? Deep and wide. Do y'all remember that from, like, growing up in church, Sunday school? Deep and wide. That song you want to go. Well, you want to go. You want to go wide, not deeper. So as deep as the root ball, and then two times as wide, and then you can backfill on that.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

Okay.

[Liz]

And what about the soil that you're putting into the hole, too?

[Brantley Snipes]

Great question. We go back and forth a lot about this because there's a lot of rule of thumb on. Get the soil amended, bring in soil amendment, bring in soul amendment. And a lot of times that can cause. I've seen it cause more problems than helping, because if so, when you backfill, you want to break up that existing soil from your site, backfill the plant with that. But you're wanting to make sure that you've cut the root ball enough so that the plant roots can reach into the native soil. If you were to backfill with a. A soil amendment or a different type of soil, the roots are gonna go out really fast, and then they're gonna hit the wall of the native soil, and you've got it locked in. And we've seen it where it'll just. It makes like a soup bowl, and it just holds the water. It sponges everything because it hasn't adapted.

[Liz]

To the natural soil, so it doesn't wanna go.

[Brantley Snipes]

You want it to adapt very quickly to the existing soil conditions, which is why working with a horticulturist, your local garden center, your favorite landscape architect, you know, that they really understand plant material suited for your region and your area so that you're not creating a problem down the road.

[Caroline]

Okay, well, we. You know, in Atlanta, we've got, like, clay soil. Right. But if you go to the nursery, they're going to sell you, like, a black kind of garden soil. So is that wrong?

[Brantley Snipes]

It's not wrong. But if they do sell you that and you do want to amend it. Take. When you take your little plant out, you've got the bucket, put the dirt that you dug out of the hole into the bucket, and then mix about a third of the amendment in there. You want more, you can amend it. There's nothing wrong with amendment. I'm not saying don't amend it. I'm saying make sure in your amending mix that the majority of the mix is what you've pulled off of your site.

[Caroline]

Okay. So I've dug a hole, I've taken out my dirt, and I've mixed it with the garden soil. And then I am breaking up the space around the hole.

[Brantley Snipes]

You're strapped to loosen it. Stratifying it. Yes.

[Caroline]

Okay. Okay. And then I put the plant in there with the mix. The mix of the old and the new soil. Okay. I just wanna know this.

[Brantley Snipes]

And don't get potting mix. Cause potting mix is gonna be different. They do a. There's products out there called soul conditioner or soul amendment. That is, if you were putting a plant in the ground, don't put potting soil. You're doing soil conditioner. I feel like I'm lecturing y'all. I'm like, don't do that. No, we're.

[Liz]

Yes, give it.

[Caroline]

But, you know, because to me, it's dirt. I'm like, it's dirt that goes in a pot or in the ground.

[Brantley Snipes]

Like, it's dirt.

[Liz]

I don't know what a 10, 10, 10 mix is.

[Brantley Snipes]

Or like, well, we can talk about fertilizer here in a minute. So that's a whole nother thing. Yeah, I just saw it on the back. That potting soil is designed. And that's when you really get that sponge effect. Because potting soil is designed with all of the mixes and the loam and the things to really hold moisture for your potted plants. If you were to go take your plant, put it in the hole, wrap it with potting soil. It's basically like you've taken a sponge and wrapped it around your plant and it's just holding water.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

Nothing. Your plants will not grow if the root systems are too wet.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah. So you wanna go soil conditioner, Soil amendment.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah.

[Liz]

Excellent.

[Brantley Snipes]

Great.

[Caroline]

So how do you do that? If you like. Okay, that makes sense if it's like one hole, but what if it's like a giant bed? Like a lot of times what we'll.

[Brantley Snipes]

Do if we're running into heavy clay or we're running into. We call it gumbo in Mississippi, where it's just like, it's clay, it's sand, it's just a nightmare. There's just. We deal with the pockets of this a lot. If it's really bad, you kind of want to dig out that bed, mix it on a mass scale, you know, get a few bags or a truckload of amendment, mix it all in and then put it back or take a little bit out, spread your soil amendment down, and then come after it with an old school tiller and till it ends.

[Caroline]

Interesting.

[Brantley Snipes]

You really want to make sure you're getting it 6 to 8 inches deep because just doing it right there on the surface 2 or 3 inches is not going to.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

Not gonna help.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Caroline]

These are things I would have never considered.

[Brantley Snipes]

I know. And that's what's so funny is so many people don't think about this. Like, you see the landscape and you see the pretty stuff. And that's why I'm always like, ooh, budget. Watch your drainage, watch the dirt, watch. You know, because there's so much science that goes into landscape planning. And it's not just, it's. I can dig a hole, I can put a plant in the ground. I found it at Lowe's and they really. Maine, they love it up in Maine. And Lowe's decided to sell it. So I'm just going to put a plant for Maine in a Mississippi or Georgia climate. And that's. You're never going to get anything that way, you know, so there's a lot of. There's a lot of misinformation, I think, out there in the horticulture world.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Okay. So we have talked a lot about the installation, but let's talk about the design a little bit. Like.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah, that's what we love to do.

[Caroline]

Say, I want a patio. Yeah. Like, where do I start? How do I know how big to make it?

[Brantley Snipes]

What do you want to do on your patio?

[Caroline]

I don't know. I want to drink my coffee. I have a ton of trees, and it's going to get, like, leaves everywhere during the fall. So maybe just talk about some common problems, like, where do you place it? How big should it be? What materials should you use? Do you need, like. Like an overhang? Do you do umbrellas? Do you do a pergola? Like, if you need shade?

[Liz]

And do you have to consider existing trees and the placement of your hardscape there for that, too?

[Brantley Snipes]

You absolutely do. I'm glad you said that. Let's hit on that real quick.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

One of my dear friends and colleagues is an arborist. And so I've started. Matt and I have started collaborating a lot more on tree protection zones. And that's another thing that you're not thinking about in landscapes. If you've got a big, mature, a tree protection zone, you don't think about this. You see the trees, stems and limbs coming out and creating these awesome shade canopies. But did you know that underneath the surface, those roots are going out about as far as the canopy is? And if you cut one of those roots right there for your new patio that you're putting right by this house, the tree can land on it if you cut the roots in the wrong spot. So we really are trying to get better about. We're working on preserving a lot of really cool trees on some projects of really doing a tree protection zone and really kind of having an arborist come out and look and say, look, you know, it's a so and so caliper. You need to come off. At least we're dealing with a white oak on a project right now, and we need to be 40ft off of the tree trunk. The tree trunk of this white oak to ensure we're not doing anything that will cause problems down the road. So.

[Caroline]

Yeah, so you're designing around that.

[Brantley Snipes]

You're designing around that. You got to think through the root system, but back to the patio. All right, so we're going to drink coffee out there. So you're thinking two chairs. Are y'all gonna eat dinner out there?

[Caroline]

Sure.

[Brantley Snipes]

Okay. Do we need a place for the grill? Does your husband have, like, one grill, six grills?

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Brantley Snipes]

Husbands love grills.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Brantley Snipes]

So we need a grill spot.

[Caroline]

Sure. Yeah.

[Brantley Snipes]

Do we need a counter for the grill spot? Do you just want the grill and.

[Caroline]

We'Ll just have the grill.

[Brantley Snipes]

Okay. Which direction does it face? I don't know.

[Caroline]

This is an imaginary place. So I'm like.

[Brantley Snipes]

Take a note. So. But.

[Caroline]

Okay. There are a Lot of questions.

[Brantley Snipes]

That's a lot of questions that I'll start with with client and be like, okay, that's cool. Everybody wants a patio, but, you know, what are we doing on the patio? So if we're doing dining, we're going to do a seating area. We're going to stay within the 10 to 15 by 10 to 15. You really don't need to go any larger than that. You can make excellent use of a space. Those are our standard kind of patio sizes. Coming off like that, because you really want to think through it too. Kind of like rooms of your house, rooms of your landscape. Of like, okay, here's the kitchen where we're going to be eating. But when I'm drinking my morning coffee, I don't want to smell leftover charcoal from the burgers we cooked last night. So we want to make sure we've got space in between that. We want to make sure the direction of the house. We're catching good airflow, you know, so again, when you're. When you're dealing with cooking, when you're dealing with fire pits, we really try to pay attention to airflow so that. That you're not sitting there smelling it when you don't want to be. It's. They're not pretty.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

In one of our last conversations, you were talking about how your space can really be smaller than you think because you don't have walls. And I thought that was so smart. Like, you know, if you're designing a dining room, you have. You have a barrier. You have a physical barrier where the end of the room is. Right. But you don't have that outside. So it was interesting to me just to think, like, making them more intimate rather than large.

[Brantley Snipes]

And especially if you've got a huge lot and you're like, I'm going to build a big, awesome patio, and you're going to be really disappointed when I talk to you. And I'm like, you don't need a big, awesome patio. Like, here's how we're going to lay this out. Here's how we're going to tie it in where your back door comes off. Here's how it's going to, like, talk to the other spaces, you know, windows, views. You know, really kind of think through that and make it more of a smaller nook. Again, human nature, we don't like to be out fully exposed. I mean, think about it. We like cozy nook corner places, and that's what we want for our outside spaces, too.

[Caroline]

Okay. I've noticed some friends of mine, actually. Lots of friends. I feel like they have these big backyards, and when you're buying your house, you kind of see, like, oh, my gosh, there's this huge backyard.

[Brantley Snipes]

It's all this potential.

[Caroline]

Yes. We could do all this stuff with it. And then you're kind of like, well, I built a patio, and it's, you know, 15 by 10ft. And what else do you do back there? Like, how do you give a really big space purpose that's not like a fire pit and a patio and then another pool? Okay, well, just kidding.

[Liz]

Maybe you do have a pool.

[Caroline]

But, like.

[Brantley Snipes]

Right.

[Caroline]

Your pool's not going to take up the whole, like, what. What are some ways to.

[Brantley Snipes]

Well, and that's. That's when you. Again, you're like, okay, well, do we have kids? Do the kids need a soccer field or a baseball area? You know, my personal landscape is very long like that. I do not need a lot of space. And so I came in and created. I cut it in half, basically, with a hedgerow. And behind the hedgerow, one day when I have time, I have cute little garden boxes that I'll do. That's where my vegetable garden will be eventually. You know, they're there. They're not doing anything right now, but, you know, kind of break it up. Like, do you want to garden? Do you want a pool? You really don't want to look at a garden all the time. So you can start to break up that plane with hedgerows or some privacy. Or maybe you do kind of different layers like that. Or if you like a big, open green space. That's when we come in and do perimeter plannings and then do really big. I love a deep flower bed with a lot of layers. And so your height, your tall layers are back towards the fence. And then we come in three or four layers kind of stepping in. So it. It kind of pulls that visual plane of such a large open space closer to the house. Right. Okay. Just give it some context, because I.

[Caroline]

I always feel like the, you know, it's like, well, then you just got. Is it just tons of grass? Like, what do you do with it? Okay. And then the other thing it seems like people are doing a lot is doing it AstroTurf.

[Brantley Snipes]

Oh, yeah.

[Caroline]

What? Talk to me about AstroTurf.

[Liz]

What's happening?

[Caroline]

Are you pro? Are you.

[Brantley Snipes]

I love it. I think it's beautiful. I think it is incredibly expensive. So you want to talk about unfun money is how many clients are like. And I want this to be AstroTurf. And this. And then we give them the price and they're like, we're just going to do grass. You know, because you were literally. It is very expensive. I recommend doing it for small, confined tight spots that you know, you're not going to get grass to grow. Courtyards, small patio homes, weird walkways that, you know, say you've got two houses side by side. You'd like a nice strip of grass, but the houses are so tall and so close, there's not going to be a lick of sunlight that gets to it. That's when you come in and selectively use Astro Turf. It's come a long way since AstroTurf too. There are brilliant options of very real looking synthetic grass options now. You know, it is, it's really, I mean, you really can't tell the difference.

[Caroline]

But I'm not just covering our whole backyard in plastic, like what I mean, you are.

[Brantley Snipes]

And it's going to be very hot. So Astroturf is also. If we're thinking about keeping temperatures cool and creating like cool outdoor living spaces that we want to be in Astroturf. And that's why minimal, minimal amounts. There is nothing wrong with beautifully done, clean, normal sod, you know, so be selective if you're insistent on it. You don't want to do your whole backyard in artificial.

[Caroline]

Yeah, well, okay, I have, I have lots of friends who've done it recently and I do get the appeal. But then also. And it looks great, I think right away, is there. Is it gonna look like. How does it age? I guess is.

[Brantley Snipes]

That's a good question. I don't know. I haven't. I mean, I'm just gonna be honest with that. I don't know. Since it's, it's a newer trend that people are doing. So we really haven't seen what it looks like in 10 years. You know, it could, you know, I know it's designed probably to not fade to withstand, you know. And again, thinking through the longevity of it is you really want to make sure that that base layer, I mean, I sound like a broken record, is properly prepared, that it's draining, that you're not getting a big runnel of water coming through. And then it gets uneven and you have to pull it out and start over, you know, but getting that adequate and ready to go. It. And it, it's beautiful. It looks awesome. You don't have to mow it. It's just. It is. If that's where. If that's what you want, that's what you'd like to Put your budget to. Let's go for it. Let's figure it out. But, you know, just know that going into it that it is quite expensive.

[Liz]

I like the idea of it being contained or in a small space. Like, I know my sister did a putting green in the back of their yard kind of behind a bunch of things. But, like, that's where the kids go and they. And practice their putting. But like, I have a neighbor that did their entire front yard.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Liz]

Yeah. And you can't.

[Caroline]

What do we think about front yard?

[Liz]

Oh, no, no, no.

[Brantley Snipes]

See, and it looks weird this time of year when you don't, like, if your yard is green this time of year, it's weed.

[Liz]

Unnatural color of green this time of year. Right.

[Brantley Snipes]

So either you've got artificial turf or your whole front yard is weeds and you don't know it. Because if your turf is green in early March, February, that is the only two options for it. It's kind of an unnatural look. But we've had great results with it. We used it last year for a client that had a giant oak tree in a zero lot line area. They couldn't get grass to grow. We came in, we did a small about the size of this table. Little breath of artificial. And it's really nice. And people, you know, if you use it sparingly, people aren't always going to know that it's fake. And that's kind of the fun. It's kind of like the party trick. He's like, look at my grass. And it's not. It's plastic.

[Liz]

So another front yard material is clover. Have you, have you done anything with that? I feel like I keep seeing clover being used instead of grass.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yes, we have not.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

The nitrogen environmental, it's got way more better. Way more better. It's got much better environmental factors to do. Kind of a native. I think clover's native. I'm a little. I'm a little off on native non natives. We haven't been doing a lot of that lately. But good nitrogen, good coverage. It's not going to. You know, the reason we use as much turf grass as we do in the Southeast is it withstands foot traffic. Walking on it. You know, when you get outside a turf, there's some really cool ground covers. So, you know, if you're not walking on it every day, if the kids aren't playing on it, if you don't need to walk through it, that is always an option to do kind of more of like a natural ground cover effect, less spraying. You know, it's perennial. It's got the fun little blooms on it. You can make little clover flowers, you know, if that's what you want to do out in your front yard, you know, so there's absolutely, like, added benefits to that, but there's, you know, it's a fascinating psychology of, like, turf grass within Southern culture. And it's such this, like, clean, neat standard, and that's what we do, and that's what we mow our yard. And it's nice and clean and green, and the edges are all lined up, and the kids play on it, and, you know, it's quality. Turf is kind of like a way of life for.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Brantley Snipes]

In the south, you know, So I know in other parts of the US and world, they are doing different things outside of turf, but I think it's going to be a while before we really catch on to it.

[Caroline]

And you're using turf not as. You're just talking, like, just turf.

[Brantley Snipes]

Zoysia. Bermuda turf. Yes. Yes. Grass. Yeah. Grass. Yeah.

[Caroline]

Well, our.

[Brantley Snipes]

The.

[Caroline]

I feel like Atlanta's strange because it's, like. It gets too cold for, like, St. Augustine. Right. And like, Bermuda, but then it's too hot for. I think we have, like, joy in our yards.

[Brantley Snipes]

Y'all should have zoysia. Should be good.

[Caroline]

But it looks terrible in the summer. Really? Well, because it gets. It, like, gets all brown and. Or wait, no, do we have. Wait, what's the other one?

[Brantley Snipes]

Do you have Kentucky Blue?

[Caroline]

No.

[Brantley Snipes]

I don't know.

[Caroline]

Ours looks good in the winter and bad in the summer.

[Brantley Snipes]

Okay, so you've got more of a northern grass. I don't think it's zoysia. We might need to double check. Zoysia is, like, our go to. That's like. It's like shade.

[Liz]

I don't know. Are we going on a field trip after fescue?

[Brantley Snipes]

Fescue. Fescue. Fescue.

[Caroline]

We have fescue.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yep. Fescue in Kentucky Blue. You see a lot of those in Nashville and Atlanta. Those are cool season grasses.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Brantley Snipes]

So. And that's what's crazy about Atlanta, is you can get away with it, But August hit, it's gonna.

[Caroline]

You know, we need to re.

[Brantley Snipes]

Re.

[Caroline]

Do it.

[Brantley Snipes]

So best practice, you're gonna get the best look with zoysia. And there's a bunch of different varieties of zoysia, but it can handle shade, it can handle sun. It doesn't send the runners out like Bermuda does. It's just. It's like. Like putting an awesome carpet down.

[Caroline]

How do you get rid of Crabgrass. This is like my.

[Brantley Snipes]

Oh, that's an awful one.

[Liz]

And English ivy.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah. Oh, God. English ivy.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Brantley Snipes]

Oh, horror. I got problems.

[Caroline]

Do you have both?

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Brantley Snipes]

Oh, yeah.

[Liz]

Oh, yeah.

[Brantley Snipes]

Honestly, hand pulling is the best.

[Caroline]

Hand pulling or.

[Brantley Snipes]

Well, like crabgrass.

[Caroline]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brantley Snipes]

That. There's, like, a claw that you can get, and you just.

[Caroline]

Is it the grandpa thing?

[Brantley Snipes]

Claw it, twist it. It. Pop it out. Claw it, twist it.

[Caroline]

Grandpa thing.

[Brantley Snipes]

Pop it out.

[Caroline]

Okay, but how often do I have to do that?

[Brantley Snipes]

I mean, probably a few seasons or talk to somebody. That's a really good, like, spray applicator on that. But crabgrass is tough. I've got horrible wild onions in my backyard that I can't get up. I mean, I have this lovely little onion crop. And all we can do, we've. We've tried to spray it. That. Twist, pull, pop, twist, pull. Yeah.

[Caroline]

So, okay, do I have, like, Can I just. Because what happens is, like, there's a bald spot, right? And the crab grass comes in. So then when I pull out the crabgrass, isn't more crab grass just gonna grow there?

[Brantley Snipes]

If you get it from the root system, it won't. So that's why you gotta, like, dig deep and pull it up. Cause that's gonna be the best way to kind of keep it, you know, if you do it, you create a bunch of bald spots, come in with a little bit of sand in the summertime.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

Grass loves sand, and that helps if you've got low divots, low spots. A little sand when the grass is actively growing will help kind of even it out. And a lot of times the sand, likes the tar grass, likes to run towards the sand, and so you can really kind of like, instigate it to grow and move to those areas.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Caroline]

Okay. I also have deer.

[Brantley Snipes]

Sorry, now you answered. Abby's another. Yeah, sister.

[Caroline]

Goats is there.

[Brantley Snipes]

We did. We used goats. We used goats for a client in Atlanta, actually, to clear off an English ivy hillside. Just.

[Caroline]

But then what do you put in its place?

[Brantley Snipes]

Well, that's a good question.

[Liz]

And does it get down into the roots, like. Or is it just.

[Brantley Snipes]

They're still kind of getting the top, so you really have to, like, in.

[Caroline]

How much does it cost to get the goats to come to your house?

[Brantley Snipes]

I don't remember what.

[Caroline]

Serious. Every time I see this, I'm like, is this.

[Brantley Snipes]

Find out.

[Caroline]

$2,000. Is it $50,000?

[Brantley Snipes]

We really did turn them loose on a hillside not far from Kendall's house for what, a week? I think they were down there cleaning up the hillside. Huh. Goats and sheep. But I don't know. I don't remember what it costs. We can find out, though, but.

[Caroline]

Okay. Because I have a hillside that has.

[Liz]

Yeah, you have English ivy.

[Brantley Snipes]

But what. That.

[Caroline]

What do I do with it?

[Brantley Snipes]

It.

[Caroline]

Once I get rid of the thing, it's like.

[Brantley Snipes]

You do have to think about that on these hillsides where this ivy's been growing for years. And it's got the. It is everywhere. It's a retaining wall, you know, and.

[Caroline]

It'S not just on my property. So if it's on my neighbor.

[Brantley Snipes]

Right. And if you don't get it off the neighbors, it's going to keep. It's.

[Caroline]

So should I even try?

[Brantley Snipes]

I wouldn't.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

I would just come in and really take a weed eater and just trim the edges really good.

[Caroline]

Yeah, okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

You know, and try to get it. It's great for. And if you don't do ivy, you're gonna have to do another ground cover, you know, so you might as well kind of work with what you've got since it's back there. But I would come in and just, you know, clean up the edges, weed eat them. If it's too thick, come in and just weed eat the top parts out, let some sun get down to it. Because ivy's just kind of like a shrub. It'll shade itself out over time. And then you just get a bunch of. I helped a client one time. I mean, it was three feet of ivy that we had to deal with getting out. It was crazy. It's crazy how it. How it does.

[Liz]

Yeah, we don't have that. But it. But it is just like. But I feel like once it gets someplace, it's everywhere.

[Brantley Snipes]

Right.

[Liz]

And so is there a better time of year to kind of go in.

[Brantley Snipes]

And right now clip in it? I would do it right now, cut it way back. And then when it starts growing again in the summertime, it'll be set back a little bit. And the other thing to do if it's creeping into the neighbors, if it's creeping into your landscape, is come back with some of that steel edging I was talking about and really kind of get a nice edge for it. And that goes down two inches in, which will help with the roots and stuff coming through. So cut it way back, get some edging set up for it, and that will kind of help. That's not going to completely tame it, but it's going to help kind of keep it contained and at least give you kind of some clean visual lines with it.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

On that.

[Liz]

Yeah. Last year I did a weird thing and.

[Brantley Snipes]

Are you going to go on, tell us more.

[Liz]

Well, so, like, there's some poison ivy, and then there's also English ivy, just kind of all in this kind of like, little brambly patch. And so I got some. I got some poison ivy, like spray, but I don't want to spray that everywhere because I don't want to, like, kill the good bugs and the. And the good nutrients in there.

[Brantley Snipes]

Right.

[Liz]

So I got some of those bingo daubers, you know, like those, like, containers that have like, like fabric top and, you know. Yeah. And you just dab them. They're like little dabbers. So I put that in there, and then I would. Would trim the. The ivy and kind of, like, dab the poison. So it was localized.

[Brantley Snipes]

That's the best way to do it. I don't.

[Liz]

It. I don't know if it worked or not. It's still there this year, but it's maybe not as bad in some spots.

[Brantley Snipes]

Well, and you probably didn't get enough concentration on your bio dabber. You know, you really want to get it.

[Caroline]

No idea what you're talking about.

[Brantley Snipes]

It's a plastic, and it's got the little sponge on the bottom of it, and it's like a little squeeze, too.

[Caroline]

Oh, it's like an paintbrush kind of.

[Liz]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caroline]

It's like a foam.

[Liz]

Yeah. In like, kindergarten terms.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah.

[Liz]

They use them for. They use them for painting.

[Brantley Snipes]

I'm like, what?

[Liz]

No, no, no.

[Caroline]

It's like an arts and crafts.

[Brantley Snipes]

Before we run to Hobby Lobby. Now, while we're out there, we're running around the Home Depot and Hobby Lobby as we get going on our backyard landscape project.

[Caroline]

Okay, so you were just, like, literally dabbing.

[Brantley Snipes]

I was like, cutting.

[Liz]

Cutting edges and then dabbing up.

[Brantley Snipes]

That's the best way to do it is get it directly to the sword.

[Liz]

Because I wanted it to get into the. Into the. The stems of the. And I think it worked on some. On some. I don't have, like, as much overgrowth in some. In some areas, it's done it for sure.

[Brantley Snipes]

I'll.

[Liz]

I'm. I'll go out there next weekend.

[Brantley Snipes]

That.

[Liz]

That's what I'm doing some pics.

[Brantley Snipes]

This is great.

[Caroline]

Well, no more experiment.

[Brantley Snipes]

Got all the. Abby out. Amazing.

[Caroline]

Oh, my gosh. Okay, well, what about deer? Because that's my pest.

[Brantley Snipes]

Oh, dear. Literally, oh, dear. Deer are tough. And there's a long, you know, landscape architect joke that if you. If you really want to keep deer out of your flower Beds, you need to feed them with a corn feeder in your backyard because just like us.

[Caroline]

They give them something else to eat.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yes, Just like us, we would rather eat french fries than salad. And deer are the same way, you know, but if you do that, you're opening up a whole nother smorgasbord of issues, because the minute you don't fill up that corn feeder, they are going to head straight to your hydrangeas, you know?

[Liz]

Right.

[Caroline]

You train them to come to your house.

[Brantley Snipes]

You train them to come to your house. Right. You ring the dinner bell every time.

[Caroline]

So what about other animals?

[Brantley Snipes]

And you've got raccoons and possum. You know, it's not. It really is a joke. I really don't think. I don't. I don't want metro Atlanta popping up a bunch of, like, corn feeders, you know, so that being said, deer. There are loads of deer resistant plants. There are ones they're going to eat more than others. They will tear up. A hydrangea. An Indian hawthorn is basically like a hot chocolate chip cookie. Roses, they will eat roses. Deer will not eat anything that has a fragrance. They don't like heavy, fragranted things.

[Caroline]

Okay. Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

So we're actually trying a little experiment right now because we've got a really. We did a lot of deer resistant plants. The deer came in and ate everything. And so what we have gone in and done is in a few flower beds, we've come in and clumped rosemary in the beds because of the high, heavy fragrance of the leaves and the stem. I mean, everybody knows how. How. Yeah, well, rosemary smells to see if that will kind of deter them, because I've heard that will. It's just really hard. They're gonna eat if they are hungry. And, you know, developed areas, their food sources are getting lower and lower. So it's really hard to find something that they're not going to eat when food supplies are low, you know, in the natural world. But fragrance is important. Just paying attention to deer resistant versus not deer resistant, knowing they're going to tear up a hydrangea, you just. Those are off limits if, you know you've got deer problems. What was the other. There's another. I've had some really good luck with Loropetalum. They don't seem to eat Laura petalum. They don't really seem to eat. Camellias kind of. Kind of go through some things that they're not eating. But it's, like I said, it is very hard. I did have a client because I kept getting hit with it when I was over at his house. Got one of the motion sprinkler devices. You know, walk past it in that.

[Caroline]

Arm and God, they were doing this to real dear.

[Brantley Snipes]

I walked through it. I walked through it one time and I was like, well, I won't do that again. And five minutes later, and I was like, oh, my God. Like, okay. I was like, can we turn this off for a minute while I'm trying to, like, finish up some stuff? Irish Spring soap has the heavy fragrance out there. Bars of soap.

[Caroline]

So what do you.

[Brantley Snipes]

You shave off bars of soap and kind of scatter it around areas. Again, heavy fragrance.

[Caroline]

I like that smell too.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah, right. You're not going to want to go eat your salad and smell Irish Spring soap. Soap. But. But it was so funny. I did have a client. They were like. I told them, they're like, we got bad deer problem. I was like, okay, get you some Irish Spring soap.

[Liz]

So what do you take, like a.

[Caroline]

Cheese grater or something?

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah.

[Liz]

Or a potato peeler.

[Brantley Snipes]

She goes, how many squirts do I put? She was gonna get like the body gel and like squirted liquid. I was like, okay, no, no, no, no, no. You gotta get the old school green, like, bar of soap, cheese grater. Like, how long does that last? Scattered around. Not again.

[Caroline]

How long do I have to. How many. How many applications?

[Brantley Snipes]

I mean, you're gonna have. Have to put a lot. Especially if it rains. You know, if it's rainy, it's going to melt it down and then it's.

[Liz]

All soapy and sudsy.

[Brantley Snipes]

Right.

[Caroline]

It's just.

[Brantley Snipes]

You can fright. It's all soapy and sudsy. It's, you know, that everybody's like, wow, they. They really smell clean in their yard. It's, it's, it's.

[Caroline]

It's tough.

[Brantley Snipes]

I mean, and it's getting worse and worse. I'm seeing with deer populations, you know, so just really try to avoid stuff that they're not gonna eat or try to get something with some fragrance out there. Because there is really not one sure bet at this point.

[Caroline]

Okay. Because it seems like we have some areas where like, we had just planted stuff. And that is even worse because then they just pull it straight out of the ground. Whereas we have some oak leaf hydrangeas. And they're okay because they're finally established.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yes. That tender new growth of new plants. They will. They love that. You know, so do you.

[Caroline]

So if I was real, you know, on it about the Irish spring or like, I've Heard some people say cayenne pepper or something. Yeah, pepper while it's young. And then after a couple years, maybe I don't have to do it as much or.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah, that's. I mean, that's a thought. You could try it and see. Also, I think we've tried this before over at our hunting camp. Getting. This sounds so weird. Human hair, like, from, like a, like, collector. Yes. Yeah, that's got a lot. You know, they're not going to go where the human smell is. This podcast is taking a turn. We're talking about spring and human hair.

[Liz]

No, because I've, I've, I've heard that.

[Brantley Snipes]

Also because, like, invited back. Sorry.

[Liz]

No, because there's like, like coyote urine. You can buy that, like in pallets.

[Brantley Snipes]

Listen, there's all. There's any kind of gimmick that you can think of, but, you know, I would. Or you can go old school and get some just fencing to put around it and keep it tight. That's real tacky, you know, so you're either gonna smell good, you're gonna look tacky, or you're gonna have deer eating plants. But I guess we're gonna get you a corn feeder for your backyard.

[Caroline]

But we do have coyotes in our neighborhood, so I feel like if I put out food, I'm gonna get.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah, yeah. Even worse. Well, and that's, you know, that's a bad thing for pets, but it's actually pretty good for, like, deer management. It should.

[Caroline]

What, coyotes?

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah. Keep the deer somewhat at bay.

[Caroline]

You know, my neighbors really want to trap the coyote or have someone kill it. Oh, no, maybe I'm okay with it. If it keeps the deer away, I.

[Brantley Snipes]

Should keep the deer away.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah, sorry, there's not a One Stop Shopel. And keeping the deer away. Is it sunny where your new stuff is? Are you. Because you've got a lot of shade in your yard.

[Caroline]

A lot of shade.

[Brantley Snipes]

I don't think rosemary would be your option. You could try some rosemary back there just to see. But rosemary really likes hot, hot, full.

[Caroline]

We've noticed they won't come up like that close to the house. So most of the stuff, like right on our house is fine. But we've been trying to grow some big things along the street and big shrubs and stuff. And. Yeah, they like. And they'll just rub up against the trees that we had just planted. And they pulled roses, like, out of the ground by the whole root.

[Brantley Snipes]

It's, It's.

[Caroline]

Yeah, it's real sad.

[Brantley Snipes]

Painful they. They got after we had a Lovely little magnolia coming up over at our cabin. And they did the. They rubbed their antlers and sheds and just, you know, trimmed the whole magnolia tree up to the top. My mother was mortified, so I'm like, well, well, sorry. This is a deer camp.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Brantley Snipes]

You know, but it's. It's different if it's at your, like, actual house. It's very frustrating, you know, so well.

[Caroline]

And we also just never saw them. We never saw them for a while, so we didn't know that's what it was. We kept thinking, like, why? What is eating our plants?

[Brantley Snipes]

You kept getting upset with your kids.

[Caroline]

Well, thank you so much for being here in person.

[Brantley Snipes]

I know. And get to see it. Yes.

[Caroline]

We finally get to meet and thank you for being our first guest on our little gardening miniseries. Yeah.

[Brantley Snipes]

Happy to do it.

[Caroline]

All right, well, tell everyone they can find you, follow you and see your.

[Brantley Snipes]

Yeah, please do. So, the new company is Half Moon Living. This is an outdoor design build for pools, patios, outdoor kitchens. It's halfmoonliving.com and it's on Instagram. It's Half Moonliving. And then, of course, Brantley Snipes Landscape Design is my company. That's the website address. And then the Instagram and Facebook handles are Brantley Snipes Landscape Design. So amazing. And we had some really good people reach out after the last one, you know, so if y'all have questions, want to reach out, got a problem. You know, I love talking about this kind of stuff.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Brantley Snipes]

So I'm. I'm open to it.

[Caroline]

And. And set. Let us know what the questions are, too. We can always have you back and do a round.

[Brantley Snipes]

Do a round.

[Liz]

Round two, maybe.

[Brantley Snipes]

Fun.

[Caroline]

Maybe something for fall planting or something.

[Brantley Snipes]

So y'all send in your questions. Let's do it.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Brantley Snipes]

Let's make this a more regular thing.

[Caroline]

All right. Yeah, we' it.

[Brantley Snipes]

Okay.

[Caroline]

Okay. That's our show. Don't forget to tune in next week for our second episode in this little miniseries. We're going to be talking more about plants and pots and everything you need to be doing as far as, you know, plant matter to get ready for this growing season. So, yeah, containers. And then we're also going to be talking about house plants later, some flower arranging. We're going to talk about outdoor entertaining and all that stuff. So more to come. So tune in next week. And that's our show. You can find all of the show notes on our blog howtodecorate.com podcast to.

[Brantley Snipes]

Send in a decorating dilemma.

[Caroline]

Email your questions to podcastallarddesigns.net so we can help you with your space. And of course, be sure to follow us on social media.

[Liz]

Alardesigns don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. And please leave us a review. We'd love to hear your feedback.

[Caroline]

Until next time, happy decorating.