Ep. 408: Mastering Outdoor Spaces with Landscape Designer Carmen Johnston - Outdoor Mini-Series Pt. 2

Summary

Podcast Summary: How to Decorate – Ep. 408: Mastering Outdoor Spaces with Landscape Designer Carmen Johnston

Introduction In Episode 408 of How to Decorate, hosted by Caroline, Taryn, and Liz from Ballard Designs, the team welcomes back renowned landscape designer Carmen Johnston. Known for her engaging Instagram presence at Carmen Johnston Gardens and her bespoke garden plans launched in 2020, Carmen joins the hosts to delve deeper into outdoor decorating and gardening techniques.

Ballard Designs Spring Release Early in the episode, Taryn enthusiastically discusses Ballard Designs' new spring release. She highlights the extensive and beautiful offerings, especially praising the outdoor containers and the Suzanne Castler Directoire dining set, which has been a favorite for over three years. Taryn shares, “Every single page is absolutely delicious. So many incredible goodies” (02:31).

Planting Timing and Frost-Free Dates Carmen emphasizes the importance of understanding frost-free dates to ensure successful planting. She advises listeners to consult the Farmer’s Almanac for their specific frost-free zones. Carmen notes, “It’s important to remember to always look at your frost free date before you plant” (05:02). She explains that in her region, the frost-free date has shifted from April 15th to the end of March, aligning with Easter’s date this year.

Container Gardening Essentials The conversation shifts to container gardening, where Carmen provides practical tips on maintaining and preparing containers:

• Cleaning Containers: Carmen recommends washing containers with mild dish soap and a soft brush to remove debris and prevent mold (21:27).

• Soil Management: She advises replacing half the soil annually to replenish nutrients and ensure proper drainage. For large containers, she suggests a mixture of bark and soil, maintaining about 25% bark to enhance drainage (24:13).

• Plant Selection – The Three T’s: Carmen introduces her “three T’s” strategy for selecting plants—tall, thick, and trailing. This approach creates a balanced and aesthetically pleasing container arrangement. “Always add variegation white or limey green in your spring and summer containers,” she advises to add dimension and visual interest (38:37).

Variegation and Plant Varieties Variegation, the presence of different shades of green and white in plant leaves, is highlighted as a key design element. Carmen explains, “Variegation is one of the biggest secrets that you can in container gardening that a lot of people don't take advantage of” (38:51). She encourages using a mix of plant textures and colors to create dynamic and professional-looking containers.

Caladiums and Seasonal Planting Carmen discusses the use of caladiums, distinguishing between strap leaf varieties for full sun and paper-like varieties for shade. She advises planting them as annuals and recommends waiting to purchase until after the frost date. “There are two different types of caladiums: strap leaf caladiums for full sun and paper-like varieties for shade” (34:00).

Irrigation Tips Effective irrigation is crucial for maintaining healthy gardens. Carmen offers several methods:

• Saucers: Placing containers in water-filled troughs allows plants to absorb moisture as needed (48:12).

• Drip Systems: Automated timers connected to soaker hoses provide consistent watering with minimal effort. Carmen suggests, “Just Google automatic timers, irrigation drip systems, and you'll be able to find some of the different things” (49:30).

• In-Ground Irrigation: For those with existing systems, Carmen explains how to integrate containers seamlessly without visible drip lines (51:19).

Managing Deer in the Garden Deer can pose a significant threat to gardens, especially in shaded areas. Carmen recommends planting deer-resistant plants such as holly ferns and utilizing products like deer scram and liquid fence to deter them. “Use plants that are not going to hurt them, that are not going to bother them,” she advises (56:23). For stubborn deer, she suggests fencing or using netting during establishment phases of sensitive plants.

Final Tips and Resources Carmen encourages listeners to start their outdoor projects in manageable phases, focusing on areas like the front door first before expanding. She also promotes her bespoke garden planning services, available through carmenjohnsongardens.com.

Conclusion The episode wraps up with Carmen sharing her enthusiasm for the upcoming spring gardening season and inviting listeners to follow her on Instagram and explore her professional services. The hosts remind listeners to visit howtodecorate.com for show notes and to submit their decorating dilemmas via email for future episodes.

Notable Quotes:

• Taryn on Ballard's Spring Release: “Every single page is absolutely delicious. So many incredible goodies.” (02:31)
• Carmen on Frost-Free Dates: “It’s important to remember to always look at your frost free date before you plant.” (05:02)
• Carmen on Variegation: “Variegation is one of the biggest secrets that you can in container gardening that a lot of people don't take advantage of.” (38:51)
• Carmen on Irrigation: “Just Google automatic timers, irrigation drip systems, and you'll be able to find some of the different things.” (49:30)

Where to Follow Carmen Johnston:

• Instagram: @carmenjohnsongardens
• Website: carmenjohnsongardens.com

Stay Connected: For more tips, follow Ballard Designs on social media and subscribe to the How to Decorate podcast to never miss an episode. Share your decorating questions by emailing [e-mail].

Happy Decorating!

Transcript

[Caroline]

Welcome to how to Decorate from Ballard Designs, a weekly podcast all about the trials and triumphs of decorating and redecorating your home. I'm Caroline. I'm on the marketing team.

[Taryn]

And I'm Taryn and I'm a product designer.

[Liz]

I'm Liz. I head up the creative team.

[Caroline]

We're your hosts. Join the expert team at Ballard Designs for tips, tricks and tales from interior designers, stylists, and other talents in the design world.

[Taryn]

Plus, we'll answer your decorating dilemmas at the end of each episode.

[Liz]

We love answering your questions, so don't forget to email [e-mail] now, on with the show.

[Caroline]

Okay, so this week we are excited to welcome back landscape designer Carmen Johnston. You probably know her from her incredible Instagram Carmen Johnston Gardens. And you've been on the show before, but we have brought you back because we're doing a little miniseries on outdoor decorating and gardening. And so we're thrilled to have you back. You started Carmen Johnston Gardens in 2007 and bespoke garden plans in 2020. And you've been transforming outdoor spaces and sharing your engaging DIY tips and gardening know how on Instagram and TikTok. And we're thrilled to get to chat with you about planting and all things garden today.

[Taryn]

Oh, so excited. But can we talk about the new Ballard spring release first before we talk about gardening?

[Caroline]

Always. Always happy to talk about that, y'all.

[Taryn]

If y'all have not seen it, it came in the mail, I think, last week. And the. Every single page is absolutely delicious. So many incredible goodies.

[Caroline]

Are you thinking. Are you talking indoor? Outdoor?

[Taryn]

Oh, well, of course I'm talking outdoor. Indoor looks great, too. But the outdoor.

[Caroline]

And those are your pages. Yeah.

[Taryn]

Oh, those are my pages. And the containers, they're always my go to. They are just out. Absolutely phenomenal. So if any of y'all are new to gardening and you need beautiful containers for your front door, I'm telling you, check it out. There's so many goodies loaded in there. So many beautiful things. Okay, one last thing before we. And then I have. I'm so excited about the Suzanne Castler Directoire dining set. And so many people ask about it on Instagram and we have thoroughly enjoyed it. We have had it for over three years now, and we are two to three years. And we absolutely love it. We just entertained for a birthday party two weekends ago. Everyone was around. It's just great. So y'all have so many great goodies.

[Caroline]

Good. Thank you. It's so Funny because, you know, we start working on that like every year in advance and so I like kind of forget that it's like just out because I've been looking at it for. And Liz, you. Gosh, you too. Even more so.

[Liz]

Yeah, we're getting ready for Christmas. I mean, it's.

[Caroline]

Yeah. So it's. Yeah.

[Taryn]

Oh my.

[Caroline]

So it's fun to finally, finally hear, like, finally hear the feedback and hear that you're enjoying it. So we appreciate that. Looks so good going through your Instagram today and it is an absolutely magical 70° Sunny day here in Atlanta and I was looking at your Instagram videos and I'm just like chomping at the bit to get started because you're like, you truly. I'm not, I'm not a gardener, but I do appreciate and love plants and I aspire to have a beautiful yard, but I, I don't necessarily have the know how to execute it myself. But your videos truly make me feel like I'm capable.

[Taryn]

You are. You can do it.

[Caroline]

And so I appreciate that you have so many helpful tips. You talk about plant names, how to put things together, and you just do it in a really, you know, digestible way. And so you really have a gift for that. So I'd, I mean, if, if any of our audience is following you, they really need to be.

[Taryn]

Well, yeah, you know, I think sometimes gardening is so intimidating to so many people and I really want to try to make it extremely approachable. And I think gardening is a lot like cooking. You know, sometimes you try a recipe and it doesn't taste good or it doesn't work out and, and it's the same with gardening. It's a lot of trial and error. And I just encourage people like, don't give up. It's okay. I kill plants too. You know, it's okay. But just to give it a try. And I love to try to teach people how to entertain and decorate with, with the plants and, and especially with the hot, you know, all the fun season, everything's coming up. But you mentioned that it's 70 degrees in Atlanta. And for our followers around the country and our listeners around the country, I know some of them up north are not being blessed with that incredible weather. But y'all, if you are in the south, we are experiencing a faux spring. I like to call it, you hear fake spring, faux spring, fall spring. And it's just so important to remember to always look at your frost free date to look that up before you plant. And you can just.

[Caroline]

It's an Official thing.

[Taryn]

Oh, it sure is.

[Caroline]

I've never heard of that.

[Taryn]

Oh, my goodness. Okay, so the almanac sets out every year. The Farmer's Almanac sets out per zone when you can plant. So you just go to the farmers almanac.com, type in your zip code, and it will give you the dates that you can plant. It's called your frost free zone, and that is when you can start planting your things like annuals and most of your perennials. Now this is a good time to plant, like your shrubs and your trees if you're not going through a snowstorm like some of our friends may be up north. But any annuals you want to make sure you look at your frost free date.

[Liz]

Okay. But shrubs are shrubs.

[Taryn]

Yeah, shrubs are fair game shrubs and trees. This is an excellent time to plant them because I like to say, you know, it's less stressful on me and you because when you plant, when things are super hot outside, they require more water. And right now the temperatures are cool at night. It allows the trees and the shrubs to acclimate and heal in, like, heal in really well. And it really doesn't put a lot of stress on the plants or you because in the summertime, you know, sometimes our temperatures can get up in the 90s and hundreds and it's really difficult to plant than we do. But I strongly recommend this is your go time for your trees and your shrubs.

[Caroline]

So the frost free date, is it different every year or is it always consistent?

[Taryn]

Well, this is so interesting that you asked this. So it used to be for us, you know, we are in Thomaston. I know y'all are in near Atlanta. It used to be April 15th and it has moved up recently to the end of March. But this is going to be a very interesting spring because I don't know if y'all know this, but if you ever learn this from your grandparents or your grandmother, that you do not plan plant anything until Good Friday. So what's different about this year? Easter is April 20th.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

Yep. And so we are. We have a lot of clients that we plant their containers and their gardens. And we are watching the weather very closely. And we are probably not going to start planting until that second week of April. We want to. It makes us a little nervous because historically you could still have a frost the week of Easter.

[Caroline]

I just googled it. And apparently the Atlanta area's last spring frost is March 23rd. So I mean, that's next. That's 10 days from now.

[Taryn]

So just be really careful because mother Nature can be can be tricky. And. And that's just like, professionally for our clients. We plant hundreds of containers every season. We are not going to follow the Farmer's Almanac this year. We are going to what? We're going to wait till we get about April 10, April 13, start watching that weather and making sure that it's two weeks before Easter and, you know, around that time and we don't see any frost in the. In the temp, you know, in the calendar, then it's our go time to start planting.

[Caroline]

Okay, Because I know, especially looking at your Instagram and the day we're having, I was like, I just want to go to the nursery today and get some stuff, because I have no plans tomorrow.

[Liz]

I've already mapped out my route to this garden center that's a little bit further out and how long it's going to take me to get there tomorrow.

[Taryn]

Okay, now listen. Okay, now you definitely have to go tomorrow.

[Caroline]

Wait, wait, hold on.

[Taryn]

Hold on a second. Let me tell you, if you're getting the itch, you certainly go to the garden center. Go see what they have. Just keep those plants. Maybe you can keep them outside, but I wouldn't quite plant them yet. You know, I actually have a few Tupperware bins fill with a little bit of water or plant saucers that I keep them outside right now. So just in case we get that frost. And just so you know, a frost can occur 38 degrees and below, then I can quickly bring them inside. So I'm not planting anything yet. I have to admit, I did plant two geranium baskets in my window box, but that's it. That's it. So. And if they. If I. If we get a frost, then I lose those. But just be very careful and watch that. So, yes, go to the garden centers. Go buy all that. Buy all the goodies, especially your ferns and different things like that. But just be careful. We need to watch for that frost free date.

[Caroline]

Okay, Liz, you use the word map. And I want. I feel like that's a great place to start. How it. How do you start planning your garden? Because I think my strategy, and I'm not endorsing this, has typically been like, I'll be, like, obsessed with a particular spot in my yard that looks bad. And so I. Then I want to go fix it. And it's not necessarily a holistic plan. And I'm curious if I've just bought a house, and I know I need to do some things. What. Like, how do you start?

[Taryn]

Okay, so you definitely want to look at your. You need to look at several things. One is the sun, right? Pay attention to what the sun is doing. So then that way when you go to purchase plants, you know you're purchasing the right. So there's full shade, shade, part shade, full sun. So you want to make sure that you're choosing the right plant. So spend some time evaluating where the sun and how many hours those different areas in your, in your yard are getting. Right.

[Caroline]

Do you have an easy way to do that? Because I, I'm sorry, I'm going to just be jumping in because I feel like I am always like, oh, that's pretty sunny, sunny spot.

[Taryn]

But like, there's actually different apps, probably wrong. No, you're good.

[Caroline]

You're good.

[Taryn]

They're actually apps that are out there. And I'll be honest with you, we, we know our clients gardens so well. So I'm not very familiar with apps. We don't use them a lot because we, we kind of know we could tell when us. When a space is like full shade just because of our experience. But definitely check out sun, like different apps that track the sun for you and there are different things out there. So if you're trying to figure that out so that way that kind of helps you and you want to walk around and look at those different areas at different times during the day. And I would say winter is probably not the best time to do that. You would probably want to do that in probably like in April or May, you know, when the sun has adjusted. And what I mean by that is, you know, we were past daylight savings times for us here in the South. We still enter our clocks back and forth, but you want to just observe how many hours each area in your, in your yard is getting. So, so number one, you got to choose the right plant for the right place. And it all depends on the sun or shade. Also break it down per area. Right? So I think the most. One of the easiest ways to dress up is start with your front door. Just start with your front door. Start with Container Gardens, because I always say you should greet your guests with style. Right. So start with your front door and then kind of move your way out and maybe start with the beds against your house. Okay. And, and so that, so don't. I think sometimes people get so overwhelmed with there's so much to do and just break it down into different little phases. You know, say, okay, I'm going to attack our front door first, because that's always the. Where everyone's going to come in next time they're going to attract the, you know, attack the beds, you know, in the front of the house, then the back of the house, and then move out into the different, like, peripheral areas in your yard.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Taryn]

So just kind of break it down into different phases and, and don't think you have to do it all at once.

[Caroline]

That's probably part of my problem because I want it all to look good all the time.

[Taryn]

I know.

[Caroline]

And it never does because then I never like, really address any one area fully. Yeah, yeah.

[Liz]

And my problem is I have a larger backyard and don't really know what to do with it at any given time. So at what point should I just kind of bring in the professionals?

[Taryn]

I was okay, so I was just about to give a little shameless plug. This is the reason why we started bespoke garden plans. So bespoke garden plans for. We started this right after the pandemic and we were having so many people reach out to us on Instagram asking us to help with their garden garden. And it's a virtual design business where you send in all the images to us, we look at everything and we map out that game plan and that landscape plan for you. So regardless whether you use bespoke garden plans or that is the best investment is bringing in a professional, even it's just to give you the plan. Even if it's just to map out the landscape plan because it's almost like your playbook. Right. They're going to map everything out. And I'm telling you, over the long run, you're going, going to save money because you're going to plant. You're going to. Because that expert is going to tell you and choose the right plant or the right place. Right. They've got years and years of experience and you're going to save a lot of money in the long run. So I, the. I think it makes a great birthday present, Christmas present to the family, Mother's Day gift. As far as hiring expense expert, hire a designer or an architect to come in and help you.

[Liz]

Well, Carmen, I think I'm reaching out because, come on, you know, we've been here for five years. I've got like little plans, little plans, little plans, but they're not adding up to.

[Taryn]

Right.

[Liz]

The big overall what, what I have in my head.

[Taryn]

Yeah, yeah, we're. We're glad to help in any way. We do it all over the country and in Canada and, and we are very familiar with all the zone. So I've got a great team that helps us execute all of that so just you let me know if we can help in any way. But if you don't, if you just want to, you know, try to attack it yourself, go to your local garden centers. They are filled with so much knowledge. If you want to go around, take videos, take pictures, and actually take your phone to the garden center, say, hey, listen, can you give me some recommendations for the shrubs? Can you give me some recommendations? Because they have a ton of experts there, typically, and they're going to ask you, is this full shade or full sun? So, so kind of be able to answer those different questions. And they can also be a great resource as well.

[Caroline]

Okay, so you. So we're starting with our plan, and we're going to start at the front door and work out. Now, the other thing that I think is tricky is once you have your plan, everything sort of needs to be executed at different times. So, like, like you were just saying your, your trees and shrubs you can do now and possibly in the fall or, you know, even better.

[Taryn]

You're right.

[Caroline]

But then there's, like, container gardens that you want to wait. So, so what is. Do you have. Do you, like, every spring, create a roadmap for your spring of, like, what you're going to do and when you're going to do it?

[Taryn]

We do, we do this a lot for our clients. We, you know, even though we. We have a lot of map, like, huge projects, we always break it down into the different areas. So we ask, like, what's the most important? Where are your guests and your. And you, you as a family? Where are y'all going to enjoy the garden the most? Right? Where are y'all going to function the most? And that's usually how we start the plan and start attacking that plan. So, you know, for example, I was on a call with a client from Texas this morning, right? And she's like, we really have to get our front yard ready because we entertain a lot. And they come through and see our front yard, and it doesn't look so swift right now. So ask yourself that same question. Where is my family going to function the most in our garden? And where are my friends going to when we entertain? Where are they going to truly enjoy the garden the most? And that's usually the best place to start attacking that plan or where to start implementing different shrubs and trees and perennials and container gardens in your garden?

[Caroline]

Do you just, like, pick a Saturday and say, like, I'm going to do the containers this Saturday and like, the plan this? Because it's, like, hard work and I feel like, I mean, it's hard to. To map out, like, okay, when do I have an opening? When should I do it? When it.

[Taryn]

You're right. You know, it's so. So we, we clearly have crews and everybody. So we do this, you know, five days a week. But that, you know, such a great question as a homeowner. How do you attack it? Yeah, I mean, they're, you know, Saturday projects. You know, you break it down. I also think with your on spring break, you know, that's a great time to attack. Or Even if, like July 4th week and a lot of people are off, you know, try to look at those vacation blocks that you have, you know, especially like Labor Day weekend. That's a, you know, a great time. But containers, I would say, typically can be done in a day or two. So what we actually do for a lot of our clients is we spend like, literally. I have crews out today. Everyone's emptying out everyone's containers, right. They're getting all the containers emptied out. They're getting all that fresh new soil in there. And then we're not going to come and plant for at least probably another, you know, whenever we're the frost free, whenever we think it's safe. So break it up into different phases. So get your pots and everything cleaned out first, right? Get your beds cleaned out, get everything, get the debris, get all of it removed. Do the prep work first.

[Caroline]

Wait, I have to clean up my pots every year?

[Taryn]

Okay, let's talk about that.

[Caroline]

Maybe that's why my pots never look so great.

[Taryn]

Okay. So depending on the size of your pots, I always believe that small pots turn a crock pot. So you always want to start with a really big container. And y'all got Ballard's has some awesome containers that you want to make sure that you've got. Yours are about 22 inches to 24 inches. You want to fill those all the way up with really good soil.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Taryn]

Okay. And. And I know that may be a little bit expensive, but just remember that just like we need healthy food in our bodies to keep the plants looking good, it's the same thing with the plants. If we don't replenish that soil, replenish the nutrients, the plants are not going to do well, and they're not going to. You're not going to succeed or thrive. So. So typically I will remove half of that dirt in that container and refill with really good potting soil. So if you are planting in a smaller pot, let's say 18 inches and below, and when I talk about 18 inches, I'm talking about the diameter of the top of the container, not from 18 inches from the bottom, you know, from the floor.

[Caroline]

Yeah, yeah.

[Taryn]

I'm talking about the actual width. Yep, the width. The actual width of it. Take all of that dirt out and start over. Because all of. And just through. I say give that soil. Give that dirt back to the earth. Put it in a compost pile. And because that also enables, like, really good drainage, sometimes when the soil systems are so involved, they develop a really heavy root system around that drain hole. And that's another reason why plants are not successful, because they need to have air. They need to breathe. And you want to make sure that your containers drain very well. So replenish with really good soil. So break it up every year.

[Caroline]

Okay. And. But if I have a really tall container, I could leave the bottom half.

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And just take out the top half. Okay. Okay. I was not doing that, so that probably is not helpful for myself.

[Taryn]

Just give it. So. So break it down into smaller projects.

[Caroline]

So that's smart. Yeah. Do that in March when you're getting the itch, and then you wait to put the flowers. Smart.

[Taryn]

Right. Spend the day prepping, and then that way you're ready to go. And I feel like it doesn't make the project, you know, so long and. And, you know, arduous. Right. It just makes it a little bit more fun. Because the fun part is plans.

[Caroline]

The plans. Yeah.

[Taryn]

Right, right. The fun part is definitely not cleaning them, but it's actually the most important part.

[Caroline]

So do you, like, actually clean the container? Like, do you.

[Taryn]

It's funny. Okay, so. So sometimes if the containers are developing. See, I love that patina. You can actually see. I know y'all can't see the background right now you're listening. But I love the patina on containers. I think it's beautiful. Some people do not. So, yes, you can just wash with just good old, you know, fashion, like dish soap and a soft bristle brush if you want to clean your containers. Sometimes when, like, the petunias and different things trail and overflow the edges, they kind of dirty up the pots as well. So just take a soft bristle brush if you're using, like, if you have terracotta pot, and you can just gently wash them if you don't like that look. But I love the patina look.

[Caroline]

You were talking about filling it with soil, the container. And I've also seen, like, some people do the little cheat where you fill it with paper or, like, styrofoam or whatever, do you do that?

[Taryn]

Okay, so if I have a container that is like 28 inches, 32 inches, like my really big, big, big, big containers. Yes. I actually use bark. I like to use mini nuggets.

[Caroline]

I've seen you do that. Yes, that's smart.

[Taryn]

I like to use mini nuggets. And sometimes I'll take the empty pots off of the actual containers, the plastic pots, and just tip them upside down and put them in the bottom of the container. And then some bark and then some soil. But truly containers, you know, 28. Really 24 inches and below, they really need all of that soil to grow.

[Caroline]

Okay, okay. So if it's like a really big pot, like, I have some that are maybe like kind of 30, maybe even 36 inches tall. So that one I can fill the bottom with the 100% of the bark. And the bark is light, so it could be.

[Taryn]

It is.

[Caroline]

And then the top half, two thirds.

[Taryn]

Yeah, I would say we typically. Depending on the height of the container, the more soil, the better. Okay, okay. That's just the rule of thumb. The more soil, because you're giving your. Imagine if you, like, wear a size nine shoe, right. And if you're trying to squeeze your foot into, like a size 7 shoe, that's not very comfortable, is it? And that's the same thing with plants. The bigger home you give it, the more soil has to grow in, the better it's going to look all season long, and the less you're going to have to water during the summer as well.

[Caroline]

So if I have a really tall one, would it be better to fill it with soil all the way and just not change the bottom soil every year? Maybe like every couple years. Or should I use the pot with the bark? Like, which one's I would do?

[Taryn]

So the tall, I would fill it up probably about. About, you know, probably about 25% with bark and then the rest with soil.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Taryn]

And then just change out half of the soil every year.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Taryn]

That's what we do for our clients. I hope that makes sense.

[Caroline]

Yes, that makes. That makes total sense. There was this gorgeous container on your Instagram that I am obsessed with. It was, like, in this copper container, and you had.

[Taryn]

Oh, my gosh, Ballers needs to make those. Please.

[Caroline]

We. Yes, we do. It was. It's so pretty. And I saw that it was an antique because I couldn't, because I wanted to buy it. But okay. I was looking at it, and I love the way you and you do a great job of explaining this on Your Instagram. But I love the way you layer all the containers or all the plants together and you, like, use something. You had the three T's, something tall, something thick, and something trailing, which I liked. I know. See, I'm learning. Talk to me about like, because there have been a few instances, whereas, where I wrote down what you use in your container and I went right to my garden store and I tried to find all those things and I couldn't find exactly what it was. And then I was like, what do I do? So are there, like, give us some guidelines for how you construct these beautiful containers that you create in case we can't find the exact thing at the store.

[Taryn]

Okay, so number one, the very, the easiest container garden that you can ever make is use the same plant. Okay. That is the. If you are new to gardening and you're a little bit overwhelmed, and let's say that you only find, you know, one of those plants on that list, I'm giving you permission to plant the entire container with that one single plant. Because it looks beautiful. It looks great. Now let's say if you can't find some of the different things. So like, for example, that container you're talking about, I love that container. I've had it for. I have two of them actually. I'm looking at it in my office right now. I have beautiful palms in them. They're gorgeous. But if you can't find those plants, just try to look for something that's a little bit similar to it, the similar color. But your number one thing is you've got to make sure. So that was a full shade container. And so when you're looking at the plant tags, make sure you're looking for full shade plants. But that's where the people in your garden center are going to be such a huge help. Say, okay, listen, I'm looking for this plant. Can you help give me something that's closer to this option? And if there's nothing there, don't be afraid to pull out your phone and like to Google and say, what other, you know what, what other plants would work with this?

[Liz]

Right?

[Taryn]

Like, you'll see your phones and use that. So we try to show combinations that are things that are easily to find. We are very fortunate. We have growers that grow for us and our clients. And that particular one, it. You probably find a lot of those at your local garden center. They're not too hard to find. But, you know, ask them what's something that looks similar to that?

[Caroline]

When you're picking stuff, you Want those three T's. Like, how do you know whether it's going to look good? Are you like arranging it on the ground in the garden center?

[Taryn]

Okay, such a good question. Such a good question. So I know you mentioned earlier my formula and so any of you who are new and don't know the formula, it's three T's. You have to have something tall, you have to have something thick and you have to something trailing. And so, and you want to always point in the shape of a triangle. So your something tall goes towards the back of the pot, your something thick or this, your, your other last two T's can change, can alternate. Right? But then your other, you know, you're something thick goes on the right and then you're something trailing goes on the left. So look at the habit on the plant tag. Okay. How tall is that plant going to get? Is it going to get 12 inches to 24 inches? That's usually going to be your indicator that something tall, your something thick is going to probably be like 10 inches and below and your something trailing is going to be, they're going to talk about like 2 to 4 inches and it's mounding. That's going to be your something, you're something trailing.

[Caroline]

How many like plants per container? Like, because the ones you put together, they look so thick and filled in. And I'm curious if like it should be as thick as you want it to be in the when you plant it or are you leaving room for growth?

[Taryn]

Okay, this is such a great question. And we get asked this question all the time. So I believe in stuffing and shoving because if you've got enough soil in your containers, there is room for all of that stuff to fill in. And another thing too is I'm all about immediate gratification. I want it to look good, I want it to look instant. I want. Because most of the time. Why are we planting our containers? Because we're having friends and family coming over, right? We're about to entertain. We are, you know, we, we want everything to look good for, you know, for that season. So let's just start off with all really big plants. If you want to start off with smaller plants, yes, you can definitely start off with 4 inch. That's usually a smaller or we call a six pack, which is like a smaller cell size plant. It's just going to take longer for it to grow. And, and for us, especially in the south, you know, it may be a hundred degrees in July and sometimes our plants don't like that and they Kind of peter out. And I'm like, you know what, I want it to look good now, so I'm ready to go.

[Caroline]

The container is for the year. This is not. You're gonna have to redo it every year anyway. So it's not like you're gonna have that much time to fill in. Like your, your yard is where it's gonna be there for five, 10, 15 years. So that I think is something that I had to learn myself. Like, okay, you are gonna stuff it full, cuz it's really like you're only having one growing season anyway.

[Taryn]

You brought. This is such a great point. I'm so glad that you brought this up, because what we're talking about right now, this method is done with annuals. And we do it a lot in the springtime, right? But in the fall time when you're planting your containers, you also can mix with perennials and do different. You know, like right now, a great thing. If you're like itching to plant in the garden, like Linton roses mixed with a boxwood mixed with ivy. It's such a beautiful combination for right now in the middle of March for where we are in zone, in zone 8. But you also can plant containers that are going to last year round. You don't always have to have 100% annuals in your containers. So oftentimes and oh, my goodness. Okay, if y'all, if you can put the link to the video that we made for y'all a few years ago, y'all have the best faux ball boxwood that sits perfectly in your container. And so that's such a great piece and great accent because you keep. That's a permanent piece that's never going to go away. And every season you can just simply change out around and create a skirt with the annual color. So in that video we used geraniums, but in the fall you could use. And you know, you could use pansies or violas, or if you never wanted to have to touch that pot ever again, you could always use ivy. Now, of course, it depends on what zone you're in. So, you know, container gardening can be a little bit, you know, it's. It's almost like a love affair, right? That's why, you know, you really have to love it. And when I say love it, because you're investing in them, but you're investing in what, how, you know, your front doors, which I think is definitely worth it. But if you don't want to spend a ton of resources on it, go ahead and invest in that permanent, you know, faux boxwood and put some ivy around it, and you'll never have to touch that container ever again. Besides watering it.

[Caroline]

I did. I did that. That tutorial. I have three of them. One by my front door and two on, like, either side of a Paris, like a little outdoor stair. And it is so genius. It looks great. Like, even right now, where everything basically is dead in my yard, it still looks, like, pretty. I mean, it looks like it's fake, but it still looks good. It's at least something, you know. And then I change out the little plants around the. It's like a little inner tube around the edges, sort of.

[Taryn]

It is. It's the skirt. Yeah, that's good. It's the skirt of flowers to the boxwood. And. And it's such an easy thing. And then also want to get people permission that if you're like, you know what? I don't want to plant. I don't know how to plant. I don't feel comfortable with it. Just put the boxwood and just dress with beautiful moss around it in a beautiful container. And then you really. You're done. You are done. So there. There are ways to. There are different levels. It just depends on how far you want to go into it. But, you know, I just wanted to make sure people understood when we were first talking, we're talking about all annuals, but there are different levels of container garden, different types, you know, depending on where that container is going. You can use perennials, you can use annuals. You can use the beautiful permanent faux and just add the fresh or just top dress with moss in your set.

[Caroline]

In that copper container we are looking at. I love. I was never like, a big fan of caladiums, but you use them so beautiful and now. Or so, so beautifully. And now I'm like, every time I see them, I'm like, they look so good. So talk to me about caladiums, because I thought they were like annuals, but you put them in the ground, but then you also put them in containers. So.

[Taryn]

Okay, I'm so glad that you. You asked this question. So they're. First off, let's talk about. There's two different types of caladiums.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Taryn]

There are strap leaf caladiums, which are bred to be in the sun, so they can take our full, intense sun. Then there's also. So then the other caladiums, which have, like, a really soft kind of what you've seen, what you saw in the copper pot and what you saw in that flower bed. That's the shade variety. And you can tell the difference because the strap leaf has almost like a rubbery leaf.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Taryn]

And the, and the, the shade variety has more. That's full shade is more. Almost feels like paper.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

Almost smells like tissue paper. It's a lot thinner. Okay. And so for us, the. They are, yes, you're right, they're bulbs. But I don't start them from bulbs. I buy the caladiums already fully grown out and it is an annual and it's something that you have to plant every year. So if you have a shade bed or shade container, which you saw that container there, you want to make sure you're choosing that shade variety. But just know you have to plan it every year. But it isn't it, it provides such a beautiful texture and, and, and that so many people think that I have to have all flowers in my containers. Remember about your textures and your variegations. You always gotta have like a white or lime green in the, in the springtime or in the summertime to make things pop or in the winter time, you always want to use silver. You want to use like your silver plants to help the collars and the things pop. So, but, and then for as far. So you've got your strap leaf caladiums, which also work great in the embeds in the full sun and in your container gardens as well. And they're beautiful.

[Caroline]

Okay, so you're. Can I, can I get caladiums now? In the early spring and the only.

[Taryn]

Glad you're asking this question. Okay. So right now, what you're seeing on Instagram, on our Carmen Johnson Garden Instagram are little teasers. Right. That was, they're from last year. So no, it's, it's still a little bit too. You're not going to see them in your garden centers. For us, where we are in Zone 8, especially for our friends up north and especially for our friends out west, you're not going to see them right now. Now for our friends in Florida, absolutely. You're probably going to see them in your garden center.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Taryn]

But in probably in about the next, probably three to four weeks, five weeks, you may start seeing them.

[Caroline]

So after my frost date.

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Then I can start looking for them in the garden centers. Okay.

[Taryn]

And your strap leaf caladiums are going to come out a little bit later in the season.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Taryn]

Okay. So if you're looking, you're like, I can't find a strap. We just wait. They're coming. The shade variety are usually come out first. It's just Part of the growing cycle.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Taryn]

From where they're. They're being. You know, coming from the growers. That's all coming out of Florida.

[Caroline]

And I liked what you said about the variegation in the plants, because that was not necessarily something I thought about in when I first started doing containers. Now I'm still kind of in my, you know, my novice era, but. But that's such an interesting thing. I think also, when you. If you do go to the. The garden center and they don't have the exact things that you have on your list, then you can know, like, okay, I'm gonna look for something variegated with, like, a little texture and combine those things together. In that example that I was thinking of, the one with the copper, you've got, like, some leaves that are sort of, like, shiny and waxy. You've got some that are variegated and, like, papery, like the caladium. Is that, like, the key and they're all different shapes? Leaves?

[Taryn]

Yes. Yes, I think. Okay, let's talk about first what variegation means, because a lot of people may be like, what is. What are they talking about, y'all? A variegation is, like, different shades of greens and white. That. That's like it. As far as. If you were to talk to a designer, what is variegation in the plant world? Now, of course, the horticultures have a much fancier term, but let's just keep it easy. It's just the beautiful mix of whites and different shades of greens. And different shades of the same leaf. Yes. On the same leaf. And that is what makes all the other greens pop out. Right, so, like, speckles, striations, like little.

[Caroline]

Yeah, yeah. Splotchiness, like.

[Taryn]

Right, right. So. So when you're planning your containers, look for those different things. Look for plants that are variegated. Typically, you're going to find variegated ivy at your local garden centers. Always try to use variegated ivy in your shade containers. Really? Oh, it makes everything pop.

[Caroline]

Oh, okay.

[Taryn]

I'm telling y'all, it is. Variegation is one of the biggest secrets that you can in container gardening that a lot of people don't take advantage of. That is how you make a container look like a professional did it.

[Caroline]

Because I always see the variegated ones at the plant store, and I kind of think they're ugly.

[Taryn]

You do? Oh, no, no. But then when they get it.

[Caroline]

But okay. But then when they get into the container all together, I'm like, oh, that looks incredible. But like on the one off. I. I don't know it. I don't. I don't love it.

[Liz]

But, Caroline, we're always talking about, like, adding texture. I know. And sheen to your pillows, like on your sofa or like that kind of thing.

[Caroline]

There's no rhyme or reason.

[Liz]

Why wouldn't it.

[Caroline]

Why I. Thank you. And obviously I'm wrong. I'm just saying, like, that I always steered away from them, but then I see you use it. I'm like, oh, okay. It. Actually, you're right. You're right.

[Taryn]

Hidden secret. And that is such a great point. You're right. Like when you're designing or, you know, in a home, you know, you're looking at all, but you're just not using one shade of green or one shade of purple or one shade of yellow or one shade of blue. You're using, like, in your fabric colorways. You're using all of those different color ways of blue. It's the same thing in your container garden. So, so, so for like the green, you want to use, like that limey green, you want to use that dark green, you want to use that kelly green, then you always want to add in that variegation. And. And that is just a beautiful combination. So just remember, you want to try to always add variegation white or limey green in your spring and summer containers. It help it sometimes if you just use the same colorway. It makes the container look what I call flat, and it doesn't give it that dimension. It's the same thing, like, design. It truly is. So always add in that pop of what's going to make it stand out.

[Caroline]

Okay. And then how many? Like, what's a good rule of thumb for the amount of plants in there? Because you like or like the number of different types of plants? Not necessarily like, I need 30 plants in my container, but, like, is three enough? Do I need five? Do I need seven? Obviously going to determine by the size of your container.

[Taryn]

But so let's talk about how with the different various sizes that plants usually come in, right? So there's several different sizes. You have a 4 inch. Well, literally, it's just like what we call 4 inch cups, like the 4 inch diameter. Then you usually bump up into what's called a quart, and it's just a little bit bigger than a 4 inch. Then you have a gallon which is a little bit bigger. So you have the various stages, the various sizes of plants. Right? So the reason why I bring that up is because it's so important that I Like to. Oh, I forgot. And then you also have your hanging basket material, y'all. I'm gonna come back to that. Why that's really important. So if you're using hanging, a hanging basket, like hanging basket material, you're only gonna need three plants for a 20 inch, 24 inch container because they're already big. So you would use like that hanging basket, like the hanging basket geranium. You would use, you know, a, a 1 gallon asparagus fern, and potentially a, you know, a 1 gallon ivy or a 6 inch ivy. So it all depends on the size of the plant that you're buying. So the. So that's why I really recommend, especially if you're new to gardening, buy those bigger plants because you're going to have a higher success rate. The plants are already established and you got to water, you gotta water, and so you don't need as many plants and it's just an easier formula to follow.

[Caroline]

But is there a rule as to like having too many varieties like it? Will it look messy if you have too many varieties?

[Taryn]

No, no, no. There, there are no rules in container gardening. Okay. It is what you want, it is what you think looks good.

[Caroline]

No, but what does Carmen Johnson think? Would there ever be a situation where you would. You'd be like, no, that's too many.

[Taryn]

No. Oh, no, no, no, no. I'm a step and sharp. I'm a seven chef kind of girl.

[Caroline]

I know. But even if you had like 12 plants, should they be. If you've got 12 plants in your container, should it be like four different types of plants, three each, or should it be like eight different types, one each and then two of a couple?

[Taryn]

I would probably say if I had a choice to do like 12 plants, I would have three or maybe three to four, maybe 16, you know, of the different types of plants and then.

[Caroline]

Do multiples of that?

[Taryn]

Yes, yes.

[Caroline]

Okay, so like one fern, but then like four, four or five little IVs.

[Taryn]

And, and that's what you see in that container right there. It's one big. Which I love, y'all.

[Caroline]

That's your method. I like it.

[Taryn]

Yes. The Kimberly queen fern. She is your go to fern. If you plant her early, she can take the sun, she can take the shade. She is, I'm telling you, a winner. I mean, she is such a great plant. And. And then you could add the geranium and, and the asparagus fern. You could add the creeping, the creeping Jenny to that plant and you've got a really good combination. But yes, go Big.

[Liz]

Yeah. Those Kimberly Queens are just so amazing. I took that, that tip from your Instagram and, and you know what? I've got the pots all in my basement and they've lasted all winter and they're getting ready to come back out.

[Caroline]

Yeah, like you kept them downstairs.

[Liz]

Yeah, well, I have windows downstairs so they get, so it's an even temperature, you know, just basement temperature. But yeah, and they get, they get sunlight and they've got little tendrils coming up. They're great.

[Taryn]

Yes. So we talked about this. In the fall is you give your Kimberly Queens a haircut if you want to, if you don't, that's okay. But you put them in the basement and even if you don't have windows, they're per. I mean you want to have a little bit of airflow and you just kind of keep the soil moist to the touch throughout the wintertime. And then you bring those babies out as soon as you're past your frost free date. You give them some go go juice, which is fertilizer, and then you are upset and they're going to start flushing out new growth. It's. I find that's harder to do with a Boston fern. I have a higher success rate with the Kimberly queen ferns. But you know, that's what our grandmothers, that's what, that's what they used to do. They, they, they would over, it's called overwintering. You're overwintering like your geraniums, your, your Kimberly queen ferns. So it's. Yes. So you have to keep me posted on that.

[Liz]

They're doing great. Can, can we divide them now?

[Taryn]

Yes, yes, absolutely.

[Liz]

Any method or madness to, to splitting them up?

[Taryn]

Uh huh. So now if they're in a container, that's going to be depending on the size of the container. You, you know, we'll have to like get some extra help because they are like just stuck like glue in there. Right. You'll have to wet it first. Wet it because it's easier to come out. Get some help. And then you literally can just take like a mini, like a mini saw and, and literally saw it in half. You could take an, like a bread knife. You just gotta have the teeth on the knife. That's why I say like a little tiny mini saw and, and, and cut it in half and just repot it and, and you're set.

[Caroline]

Wow.

[Taryn]

And fresh soil. In fresh soil.

[Caroline]

Can I do the Kimberly Queen in a, in a full shade area like that?

[Taryn]

100%.

[Caroline]

Okay. Okay.

[Taryn]

That's why she is the queen Because.

[Caroline]

Because she can go.

[Taryn]

Yes. She is so versatile. She can do the shade, she can do the full sun. Now, after. Once it starts getting hot, like, you. You have to plant her early.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Taryn]

You have to plant her early.

[Caroline]

April, like right after.

[Taryn]

Yes, right after frost. Right. And then once that sun just, you know, probably mid May, when it just, you know, becomes like it's 80, 90 degrees constantly.

[Caroline]

You.

[Taryn]

You just can't take the Kimberly queen out there. What the reason? Planet early in full sun. It allows her to acclimate slowly before that. Go for it. It works in both.

[Caroline]

Okay. Okay.

[Liz]

You're gonna be so great, too. Because they're taller, they go, they grow.

[Caroline]

A little bit more up, versus the.

[Liz]

Boston fern, which kind of, like, goes.

[Taryn]

It's just, like, flaw. Yes, she just says it. The Kimberly is just so much her as far as the aesthetics of arranging a container. Her flow just feels so much better. That's the best way I can put that. The Boston her. Her arms just look sad.

[Caroline]

I love the face you're making, too. So you're talking earlier about, like, keeping your plants, your. Your containers watered. And I wanted to ask about irrigation because I remember I was. We. We went to. I went to James Farmer's house last year, and I was taking notes, and he has all these little, like, clear tubes and how hard is that to do? Is that something I can do? Is that. What's the story there?

[Taryn]

Okay, let me tell you the easiest thing to do. Let's start with easy first, and then let's kind of like move our way into what you're talking about.

[Caroline]

Great. I love that.

[Taryn]

So the easiest thing to do, and I would love for Ballards to make some of these, is you can actually find beautiful saucers. I'm not going to mention the word or the name, but, you know, on a very source that everyone likes to shop on pretty much every day, you can find these great troughs that are about an inch to 2 inches thick. And you place your containers in there, and you keep that trough filled with water like a saucer.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Taryn]

Okay. And so then constantly your container. What? Oh, yes. Look on my side. Yes. If you. If you look at the Instagram post that we just posted about the beautiful Mandevilla topiary and that square container, if you look at the bottom of it, that is your saucer slash trough, and that stays spilled with water, and it allows the container to constantly drink.

[Caroline]

But don't I have to keep filling it with water?

[Taryn]

You do. Okay, listen, just my problem. Well, if you did not drink water, Every day. What it does, it's the same thing with the plants, but it kind of helps it. It doesn't. It helps it not have to water every single day, if that makes sense. Now let's speed to the irrigation system.

[Caroline]

You're talking about problem, and I am not a very good caretaker, so as much as I can set it and forget it, the better my practice will do.

[Taryn]

So then let's talk about the drip system. You can buy automated timers at your local garden center, your local hardware store, where it really, it truly affixes on your hose bib at your house. And you can run a soaker hose or hose to your containers and attach the drip system and you can set that timer for it to go off. Now. So those little tiny tubes that you're talking about that you saw on your recent visit, that is coming from an in ground irrigation system. So that's something that we do a lot. We do it for all of our clients when we're doing irrigation systems. But if you don't have that, I just gave you the, you know, the easy way, the quick and fast way. You want to look for automat automatic timers that. Irrigation timers that connect to your hose bib on your house, and you can set it to your house. So like for example, at our office where we are right now, I have two big boxes, two big massive, like window boxes out front. We have soaker hoses that are connected on a timer. So that way I don't have to hand water those every single day. And, and, and it's a super easy way to, to be able to water. So just Google automatic timers, irrigation drip systems, and you'll be able to find some of the different things. But I'm telling you, the saucer is truly a great alternative if you don't want to go through that. You know, the drip system, it works.

[Caroline]

Really well because we have an irrigation system at our house. We don't use it, but if I have one, could I.

[Taryn]

You want to contact your, an irrigation company and say, is there any way possible. First they want to do an irrigation audit is what we call that. They run through all the zones, check out your pressure, see what's going on with your irrigation. And if they can, they will tie into one of those zones and run that tiny tubing that you were at. Clear tubing that you're talking about is typically black. And run that into that pot.

[Caroline]

Okay. And is that like an expensive thing to do?

[Taryn]

It can be. It just depends on what you have involved. So that's why I kind of. That's the priciest option. But. And then I kind of gave you all the different ranges of it. Now, we'll tell you this. For anyone who's building a new home, if you really. We do this on a lot of our new builds. We actually run the drainage and the irrigation all stubbed up all under like the limestone, the concrete, whatever. We actually run like a 4 inch PVC pipe. So that way. And we put it underneath the bottom of the container so the container never leaks and you never see a drip system. It's all fed through that 4 inch pipe.

[Caroline]

Wow, that's cool.

[Taryn]

Yeah. And we have a drain box. So that's like a super fancy. We do it. We have several projects right now that we do that. Because that way you never have to worry about the water leaking out and staining your limestone, your bluestone, your concrete. That.

[Caroline]

And you have to keep your plants in the same place.

[Taryn]

Yes. Yeah. But we, you just simple. We have it stubbed up where we can move it around if we have to.

[Caroline]

Oh, okay. Okay. Very cool.

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Liz, do you have a last question you want to ask?

[Liz]

Well, back to irrigation too. So I don't have water in my pole backyard there. Like, there's no pipes. So I was thinking of getting some things that, you know, fill with water and then turn over.

[Taryn]

So. So there's.

[Liz]

Does that work? Does that. Is that something I just have to.

[Taryn]

Maintain more your best. So first off, let's talk about irrigation and the purpose of irrigation real quick. So if your yard is supposed to get an inch of water every week. Okay. If you don't get that inch of water. And of course that's like in the summertime, in the, in the spring, if you don't get that, that amount of water, sometimes we go through those droughts. That's your irrigation is there to supplement that now. So if you're planting a new plant, it needs water. So for your. What you're talking about in your backyard, you can get an automatic timer I was telling you about. You just buy some soaker hoses. That's a different type of hose than what we were talking about earlier. It's a soaker hose that the automatic timer turns on the water and it allows the water to be released for a certain amount of time. And you don't have to have a fancy irrigation system. So just Google soaker hoses. And that's important for the first two, just, you know, one to two summers while your plant is getting established. After that third Year, your plant should be established. Unless we go through a severe drought and it shouldn't need as much water.

[Caroline]

You know, there's so many things that I. Obviously, I know people have irrigation systems and just all of this, but I don't necessarily know the ins and outs. This is.

[Taryn]

Yeah, well, it's. It's one of the most important components of a garden.

[Caroline]

Right. Because I'm not going to be out there watering my plants every single day.

[Taryn]

Right. So that's for, say, for people like you, which is perfectly fine is you. You probably need to invest in a drip system, an irrigation, you know, system the irrigation where it's coming from. I'm saying this, like, coming from the ground. Like, you have a whole irrigation system. If you don't, you know, that's a little bit more expensive if you don't have that. Right. If you had to get one installed. That's how I was trying to give y'all a different, like, alternative.

[Caroline]

Soaker hose is smart.

[Taryn]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, it's. And it's easy. Anyone can install it. It's super easy.

[Caroline]

Okay. Okay. So. Okay, I have two. My main issues with my yard. And I'm just gonna ask a personal question now because I am stumped.

[Taryn]

I have deer. Oh, okay. This is such a great question. Such a great question we have.

[Caroline]

And honestly, we never see them. And so we didn't know for years that we even had deer. So we kept planning things. And like, my rose bush would be, like, ripped out of the ground. And I'm like, what is happening is like, a neighbor is like, this a child, like, who's ripping my rose out of the ground.

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And so, okay, what do I do? Because I. It's. My yard is a lot of shade, almost full shade in some places. And I have deer, so I feel like that.

[Taryn]

Okay.

[Caroline]

Really narrows the amount of things I can plant.

[Taryn]

So number one, you've gotta. Where you have to start looking at deer resistant plants. You know, and if you're talking about shade, things like that fatsia, you know, things like cast iron, depending on, like, what you're planning. So you want to. The things that are. That are. Use plants that are deer resistant. But if you want to try the roses again, which need a little more sun than full shade, you want to start applying deer scram and liquid fence. Okay. So this is. I've never heard of this. So deer scram is like a pelletized formula. It's all natural, and you basically sprinkle it around and it keeps the deer out of your garden. And I have a caveat to that. And then I also like to use liquid fence, which liquid fence is like coyote urine, but it's like a urea. It's like yet product. And now sometimes the deer get used to that and they whatever, you know, they completely ignore the. All of those products that we have put out and tried to keep them away. And then that's where you have to kind of get into fencing. So. But if you try to use things that the deer start off with, trying to plant things that the deer are not going to eat. But I will tell you this. I mean, we have deer that are eating holly right now. We have deer that are eating things that they typically don't eat. And because they. Yeah, well, I don't know if this really don't get enough food. They just gotten so comfortable with eating those things and being in those spaces. But we have a. I love, I love the deer. I think they're so beautiful. So we just tried to manage them in our clients gardens and you know, we're really in their space actually. And so we just try to use plants that are not going to hurt them, that are not going to bother them. And, and that liquid fence and deer, scram. We have never had any problems with the, the deer as. But just know that they can get acclimated to them as product.

[Caroline]

Well, it, I feel like it has made the most difference in things that have been recently planted once things are established. Like, it's not like we have a whole herd of deers. They're not like, yeah, really hurting the mature plants, but things that have that are like younger.

[Taryn]

So that's, that's new growth is what you're talking about. That's new growth and it's a lot tender and it becomes candy for them. It's a lot easier for them to digest it. That's why they are attracted to that new growth versus the older plants that you're talking about.

[Caroline]

Okay. I saw that you did post snowflake viburnum on your Instagram recently and I was wondering if I should try that.

[Taryn]

That is a great alternative. Yes, for sure. For sure.

[Caroline]

Okay. What will it do? Okay. In the show.

[Taryn]

100%. 100%. You'll be good. You'll be good.

[Caroline]

Okay. Because I just, I think I tend to really like flowering plants and it seems like a lot of the, the shade tolerant stuff is, you know, flowers need sun. So I, I just feel like I get really limited in the types of things that I can use and that's frustrating.

[Taryn]

Well, but you know, there's so many beautiful things. I think a shade garden is gorgeous. Like, don't forget about ferns, you know, like your Southern Shield, your autumn ferns, your holly ferns. Those are perennials for you and for us. And they really add that, those beautiful layers and what I call softness in the garden. And the bigger the fern swaths, the better. They just soften everything, and they're very easy to maintain.

[Caroline]

Okay. I, I, we do have a lot of ferns, and that's something that I like. We have some Linton roses.

[Taryn]

Ooh, I love.

[Caroline]

Um, so I, I, I think I just need to, like, do some more investigation and really find some things I like and just do a lot of that.

[Taryn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And send me some pictures.

[Caroline]

I'll be glad to show you.

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Well, right now, my, my main thing that I'm thinking about is these. We have, like, little groupings of boxwoods on either side of our, our driveway apron. And I would need to, like, add to it. I'm thinking maybe I should do some snowflake viburnums behind it and then maybe some caladiums and some impatience.

[Taryn]

Now, just know that deer will eat the caladiums. Oh, no. Okay, so, so you may.

[Caroline]

There goes my idea.

[Taryn]

They.

[Caroline]

What would you do then in front, like, low, in front of rosemary?

[Taryn]

Well, are you eating full sun?

[Caroline]

No, I would say it's probably.

[Taryn]

You need to do holly. You do holly ferns.

[Caroline]

Holly ferns. Okay.

[Taryn]

You do holly ferns. And they're beautiful. They're absolutely stunning. We have those at our home. We use them. A lot of our clients, they acclimate really well to, like, sun and shade. And they're, they're tough. Just know the first year you plant them, they may look kind of sad. Just kind of take a weed in or whack them back after the first year, and they'll flush out new growth the second year and look gorgeous.

[Caroline]

Okay, so holly fern, like, in front of.

[Taryn]

Oh, beautiful. Another thing is you could do a ground cover Asiatic jasmine.

[Caroline]

I do love Asiatic jasmine.

[Taryn]

That would be beautiful. Sometimes I think they won't eat that. No, no. Now, now what you're gonna have to do is you're gonna have to put a netting over it when you first plant it so they won't come and pull it out.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Taryn]

Until. While it's establishing its root system.

[Caroline]

Okay. Carmen, thank you so much. This was so fun. Obviously, you know, I'm a huge fan, and, and I'm going to put a link to that video that we did on YouTube years ago, because, you know, with the boxwood and the skirt around it. But will you tell everyone where they can find you and follow you?

[Taryn]

So be sure to follow me on Carmen johnson on Instagram carmenjohnsongardens.com and if you need any help designing your garden, I'd love to help you. Our team is ready and that's bespoke B E S S P O K e garden plants and I'm sure y'all will place the link there. But we are going to have a fabulous spring and I cannot wait to get in the garden and have some fun.

[Caroline]

And that's our show. You can find all of the show notes on our blog howtodecorate.com podcast to.

[Taryn]

Send in a decorating dilemma, email your questions to podcastallarddesigns.net so we can help.

[Caroline]

You with your space. And of course, be sure to follow Follow us on social media alardesigns don't.

[Liz]

Forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. And please leave us a review. We'd love to hear your feedback.

[Caroline]

Until next time, happy decorating.