Loading summary
Transcript107 lines
- [00:02]
Caroline
Welcome to how to Decorate from Ballard Designs, a weekly podcast all about the trials and triumphs of decorating and redecorating your home. I'm Caroline. I'm on the marketing team. And I'm Taryn and I'm a product designer.
- [00:13]
Taryn
I'm Liz. I head of the creative team. We're your hosts.
- [00:16]
Caroline
Join the expert team at Ballard Designs for tips, tricks and tales from interior designers, stylists, and other talents in the design world. Plus, we'll answer your decorating dilemmas at the end of each episode.
- [00:25]
Taryn
We love answering your questions, so don't forget to email us@podcastallardesigns.net now, on with the show.
- [00:34]
Caroline
All right, I'm excited to introduce our guest today, San Francisco interior designer Palmer Weiss. Originally from Charleston, South Carolina, Palmer opened her interior design firm in 2002, has been bringing traditional interiors with a modern twist to clients all over the country. You've seen her work in your favorite magazines like House Beautiful, El Decor, Architectural Digest, and Veranda. And you'll know her work by how gracefully she layers pattern and color and the sophistication she brings to every project. Palmer, welcome to the show.
- [01:03]
Palmer Weiss
Thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here.
- [01:05]
Caroline
I adore your work. I've been such an admirer for so long, and so I'm so excited to pick your brain and chat with you and finally get to share your, your work with all of our listeners as well.
- [01:16]
Palmer Weiss
Thank you. I'm excited to hopefully impart some knowledge. We'll see. Yes.
- [01:22]
Caroline
The thing that I love about your work really is how you use color, because you almost treat color like a neutral. It's woven into everything, and yet the overall effect is so subtle and sophisticated and elegant. It never feels like in your face.
- [01:38]
Taryn
And I'm on top or yes, it's, it's very.
- [01:43]
Caroline
Just graceful. And I think that's something very unique to your work. And I think that our, our listeners will really enjoy getting to hear your perspective about color and pattern. So that's kind of where I wanted to focus the conversation as much as possible. But, you know, we do, we do go on some tangents here, so that's okay, too. But maybe you could just start by giving us a little background about what brought you here growing up in Charleston and how you found yourself on the west coast in the interior design industry.
- [02:11]
Palmer Weiss
Sure. That can sometimes take a long time. So cut me out. Start rambling, but sure. I spent my childhood, I was born in Georgia, came to Charleston via Florida. Really spent my childhood in Charleston and Partially in Charleston, but also partially at the beach. We were some of the original property owners out of Kiawah Island. So my childhood was very much. It was a little bit prince of Tides, you know, smell of pluff, mud and playing on the beach. You know, the water and the ocean was my playground and my backyard, and that was very important to me. The quality of light in South Carolina on the coast is really something that's just hard to describe unless you've been there and felt it. And, um. So I think that was always something that just. I sort of took in from an early age. Um, my mom was an interior designer. My dad was in real estate. So it wasn't completely foreign to me to be, you know, playing around with fabrics and things like that. But I always say I was not one of those kids who was, excuse me, rearranging their room from the time they were five. I mean, I just wasn't interested in that. I had other interests. I was very outdoorsy and also was really interested in business. I was always sort of a little entrepreneur. Had a thriving cutthroat lemonade stand, you know, the halfway point on the Kiawah golf course and that sort of thing. So. But my road to the west coast was sort of long and windy. I went away to boarding school in New England. I then stayed on to college in New England and really, on a whim, came out to sand, came out to the west coast, excuse me, to visit a boyfriend, of course, as it always is, and ended up making the drive up the Pacific coast highway from Los Angeles to San Francisco. And at the time, I was very interested in photography. I had studied at Parsons for a summer, and I drove this convertible by myself to return a rental car for someone and really was just, like, bowled over by the California coastline and the difference of the quality of light out here and the difference of the drama of the coastline. And one second I'd need the heat on because it'd be socked in fog, and the next second it'd be blazing hot. So just the drama of the landscape and the quality of the light, which was so different than what I was used to, both in the south and in New England. Anyway, I landed in San Francisco and was just really taken by it because I was always a little bit country mouse, city mouse, you know, schizophrenic. I. I grew up in this sort of wild environment, but I have the personality that thrives on a city and thrives on action and, you know, energy in a city. And San Francisco really seemed to encapsulate both of those things. So basically moved out on a whim, shipped my car out after graduation and ended up going into sales and trading, sort of investment banking. Obviously no predisposition or pre inclination to go into design and then ended up going to business school in Chicago, went to New York to work for startups. And long story short, sort of my creative bent and my entrepreneurial bent kind of kept nagging at me and I was not feeling satisfied in the more corporate financial world and was really searching for something that would sort of help me marry my different interests, which were both creative but also, you know, business. I did a brief tour at the Gap, which a lot of women in their 20s seem to do out here in San Francisco, but found it way too much of a corporate behemoth and did not enjoy that. But am grateful for that experience because it actually is where I came out with my first clients and sort of my first friends who ended up being more creatively minded like that. I had some friends in visual fun. Small world story. Mark Sykes was in visual at the Gap at the time. So I knew Mark and launched my own company back in 2002. So. See, I told you it was a long story. It's hard to condense 220 some odd years in a quick sound bite, but that's sort of the long and short of it.
- [06:41]
Taryn
Wow, that is such a winding path. So what was it that made you feel the gumption to open your own business from that varied background and just jump right into interiors?
- [06:57]
Palmer Weiss
I think, I mean, I left out about 15 steps and in all of that I kept having false starts at different career paths. And I wasn't just trying new companies, I was trying new industries and new careers. So, you know, I worked in sales and trading, I worked for online, you know, I like worked for an Internet consultancy, I worked for a startup, I worked for a fashion brand, I started my own handbag company. And I think I basically had just so kind of had it at that point. I mean, I feel like I had sort of taken every reasonable step to find a safer career path. And I think that gave me just the gumption to say, you know what, I have this hunch that this could work for me and I've tried enough other things and know that they've ultimately not left me satisfied. So I'm comfortable taking a leap. And it's funny, it did coincide with the time that I met my husband, but I mean, he would not mind me saying this. He was hardly a sugar daddy, he was a resident here he made less than, you know, school. You know, I don't even know what to say. I mean, he made no money. So we were living in a basement apartment and I walked away from my salary job to start my firm, and very glad I did. I'm a big believer in if you can, if you have enough resources, you know, or stability where you can afford to take a leap and not end up on the streets, I highly recommend it because that's really the only way that you are able to, you know, to take, to find what it is that you truly want to do with your life.
- [08:46]
Taryn
Well, it's a bold move and it's surely paid off. Your work is just so fantastic.
- [08:53]
Caroline
Well, I want to jump just right into your use of color and pattern because again, just looking at your work, you know, there were so few times where you used like an oatmeal colored sofa or a piece of upholstery. And I loved that because they were still very subtle, very timeless. The rooms felt very, again, graceful. I just keep coming back to that word and elegant. And it wasn't like an in your face color, but there was green sofas, blue, bold, you know, Peter Dunham purples and plums. And so I want, I would love for you to just kind of start about how you see color within the space and then we can kind of go into, you know, the hierarchy of patterns that you're in, colors you're using and kind of the details. But yeah, how. How do you see color? Like, what is your, your overall thought process?
- [09:46]
Palmer Weiss
It's funny, I was a little bit hesitant when I heard the theme of this, talking about color, because I think sometimes for me, it's like talking about how you breathe a little bit. It's very hard to describe if somebody were to say, how is your heart beating? Or how is that breath coming in and out of you? And that could be maybe an obnoxious or not so helpful answer to somebody who's trying to learn about color. Because it is, for me, just something that feels very intuitive. And I feel, I don't know, certain things make me happy and certain things make me sad. I mean, we have a saying in here called sad jacket. You know, my daughter, when she was little, used to have this jacket that she'd put on inside out. It was like this gray furry jacket. And she called it her sad jacket if she felt sad. And so which fortunately wasn't very often. She's actually a really bad person. But. But when we see color, when I see things, I mean, I'm a very kind of emotional, emotionally attuned designer. And if I see something like oatmeal makes me sad, I just don't know how to say it. It just is like sad to me. And so, you know, color really makes me feel alive and makes me feel excited and engaged. And I, you know, I always say I'm sort of a pan colorist. I really like all colors. I love all tones of colors. And when I'm talking to potentially new clients, I say, look, I mean, we can, we can dial the color up or down depending on your comfort. We can dial the pattern up or down. But if you tell me you want an all white room, I'm just not your person. And somebody out there can do it and do it beautifully and I could admire it from afar, but it's going to make me sad when I walk in that room. And I don't know how else to say it, I'm gonna need to take some Prozac when I walk in there. So, you know, that being said, I think, like I said, I talked about the quality of light in Charleston. I was then also I studied photography quite intensely and thought I was going to be a photographer. So light means a lot to me. And color is nothing in absence of light. Right. Color is just a bouncing back of, of light. And so I think about color in terms of the quality of light and the quality of light that I want to feel in a room. I think as much as I feel about just, oh, I want a green room or I want a blue room or something. And then in terms of just how I approach color, I mean, it never comes to me necessarily like that. I want to have a certain colored room. You know, rooms kind of present themselves and, and make you decide what, what they want to be based on a lot of different factors. I mean, not the least of which is the client's inclination for colors that they like. But, you know, I'm, I'm very fabric forward. I'm very driven by fabrics, fascinated by textile design. I think there's so many amazing textile designers out there. We're living in a, a world and a time of just prolific boutique textile designs. And, you know, you can use any fabric as a jumping or wallpaper as a jumping off point for combining colors. And I think that's always a great way for people who are sort of starting out to, to discover color and to really study a fabric and say, like what? Why does that work? Like, I'm looking at my wallpaper in this flower. There's four different Shades of yellow in there with a. Like a sort of a pinky center to it, you know? And who would have ever thought to put those colors together? But Liberty did, and it looks amazing. So you can sort of go to school on fabric and wallpaper designers as well.
- [13:38]
Caroline
Well, the thing that I. I found so interesting is that your palettes are not formulaic at all, or they don't appear to be. You know, you might have a green sofa and then. But there's not a lot of green elsewhere in the room. And it. And then, you know, you have a totally different color and series of colors on, like, the side chairs. So what can you walk us through, like, your. Your internal monologue if you. With what, like, where you're starting with the fabric and then how, like, what you're adding to it? Is it, like, this has too much of this or this is not enough that? Like, what is your internal monologue when you're working through what makes sense together?
- [14:23]
Palmer Weiss
Wow. That one's the hard one. Also. It's. It's almost like, you know, asking a chef, like, how they come up with a recipe. And it's a little bit. You know, you're tasting it as you go, and you kind of know when, you know, type thing. But I would say I very often start with a hero fabric or a hero rug, you know, if you will. So if I were starting a room with this wallpaper, for instance, and for those of you who are just listening and not watching, it's a Liberty wallpaper. It's really lush and green. It's got these bright sort of yellow ochre flowers and vines and cherry blossoms. I guess it is going through it. But in any event, I would start with that. But then what I'm more interested in is I'm interested in the secondary players in the fabric. I'm not interested in hitting the yellow that's in that flower. I mean, I am a little bit, maybe as an accent, but what I'm really interested in is, like, where's the weird color on the fringes in there? You know, there's like, a little bit of a peachy orange in some of these flowers that. That bumps up against some of the neutrals of the branch. Like, what does that look like in here? You know, so I'm more interested in the. The. The bit players in the fabric or in the. In the carpet, because those are the most interesting to me. And I think those are the ones that when you pull them out and make them sort of dominant in the room, then you have a Less formulaic look. I mean, if you take a fabric that has a bright yellow pattern to it and you put a bright yellow sofa with it, there's nothing wrong with that. But like, my dog, you know, my kids could have done that when they were 8 years old. That's not that interesting. What's interesting is when you play at the fringes of something. And then there's also. I'm always trying to mix the, you know, masculine and feminine, the timeless and the. The funky. So, you know, if I have a more traditional print as my hero print, now I'm interested in where's the weird geometric? Where's the, you know, where's the one off abstract? Where is. Or where's the modern art? You know, where is the other thing? It's all about attention to me. That's what makes something feel timeless and feel interesting. It's like, you know, it's got a foot in the past, but a foot in the future. It's got, you know, part of it is. Feels really feminine, but then part of it is. You can't describe it because it's a floral room, but, like, it doesn't feel like all women hang out in there. You know, it feels like it's got a masculine edge to it or a gender neutral edge to it. Whatever you want, you know, typically talk about. So that's really. My internal dialogue is constantly. Even though I don't necessarily articulate it like that, that I know is what I'm constantly trying to balance.
- [17:13]
Taryn
Yeah, I feel like that, in a nutshell is like the varsity tip that we. That we all just got, you know, picking out the weird. The weird color. Because there's. There's something about your work that feels, you know, it's very traditional, but it's not at all. It really does bounce between a formality that we kind of all hearken back to, maybe emotionally even, and then a modernness for the way we're living right now. And I love that idea of one foot in the past and, like, one stepping toward the future. That's really beautiful.
- [17:55]
Palmer Weiss
Thank you. I mean, that's really. That's. That's the nutshell of my life. Right? I mean, you can't find two more different places than Charleston, South Carolina, and San Francisco, California. I mean, you know, one is rooted in the past and is the south, and one is all about the gold rush and the new and technology and everything else. And it's. I think it's one of. It's a tension that I feel in my life all the Time, because I am sentimental and I have, you know, my family's all still back in South Carolina, and I love it. There's so much that I love. But then there's so much about living out here that's so freeing and so different, you know, having a lack of. Having a lack of, you know, sort of ancestral duty and ties to the past and ties to. This is how we do it, because this is how we've always done it. I mean, California is the antithesis of that. So, yeah, it is. It's how I like to live.
- [18:52]
Caroline
Yeah. Well, I also love the. The point about not making the obvious choice, you know, pulling out the unusual colors because you have the. The map with your fabric, and so, you know that the color is going to work in there, but not always going to the main player and. And picking up the. I love that idea. And I think, you know, if any of our listeners are, like, about to buy, like, say they're shopping for a sofa or something, you know, and they. Their. Their natural inclination is to go to oatmeal. What is the.
- [19:30]
Palmer Weiss
Sorry if that's your number one seller, but don't do it.
- [19:34]
Caroline
Well, I think, you know, people, obviously, people go to it because it feels safe, and they. And they're making a big purchase and they want to pick something that is going to have longevity. But to that point, what are some things that you find have the same longevity as, say, an oatmeal sofa, but has a little bit more personality and would fit into your esthetic or fabrics or colors you go back to time?
- [19:54]
Palmer Weiss
And again, I mean, I'm very partial to green. I love green. But again, I think also it's dangerous to say a color because there are approximately 8,000 shades of green. And so that's another thing I like to play with is I. You'll notice in my work, I use very few primary colors. I would say there's very few. I always have a hard time on 4th of July Instagram posts because I don't do red, white, and blue. You know, I might do pink and in baby blue or, you know, fuchsia and purple or something. You know, some tangent things on the color wheel. But I'm not a big primary color person, just personally. And I think that's a mistake people make, too, is I think they think primary colors are, you know, easier to work with. And I wholeheartedly disagree. But so in terms of a recommendation, I mean, I had a sofa that was in an Oscar de la Renta floral that I had for 15 years. I had it when my kids were babies. And I mean, it was a gorgeous sofa. It had. It did have a little bit of an oatmeal background, but big floral pattern on it. And I lasted through, you know, baby spit ups and, you know, kids jumping on it and everything else. It was so durable and it had so many amazing colors in it. So I am a big fan of a. Of a patterned sofa because I think that that's actually more dirt, more. Well, it's definitely more durable in terms of how it shows its wear and tear, but it's also longer lasting. You can then swap out pillows, you can swap out extra chairs or whatever, and you have a totally fresh look. Whereas with an oatmeal sofa, I mean, there's only. You have to change everything to make it look different to. So I think if a big, bold pattern is a little bit much for your liking. I love a ticking. I think a ticking, a small ticking, and a, you know, brown and white, blue and white. Any kind of color is really nice. It. It has very much like a haberdashery kind of feel to it, and I think I'm a big fan of those. I turns out I don't like wide stripes. I don't know why. You could also do a petite print. You know, something if you can't do with like a big, bold pattern, if you did a petite print that has, you know, three or four colors that you love in it, I actually maintain that that is going to give you more options down the line than an oatmeal sofa is.
- [22:16]
Caroline
Well, I guess if you have pattern on your sofa, then you always have a focal point, whereas if you don't have. If you've got an oatmeal sofa, which, you know, so many of us do, and that you can make it work as well, but, like, you're always going to have to create the focal point because it's. It's not enough on its own.
- [22:32]
Palmer Weiss
Exactly.
- [22:33]
Caroline
Do you ever find your clients being nervous at all, or are they usually like, you know, I've got Palmer, like, she's gonna figure this out for me. That's why I've got you.
- [22:43]
Palmer Weiss
I mean, I have clients all along the spectrum in terms of color. I mean, definitely I've either talked them out of hiring me or they've run and spray me in the other direction if they wanted an all White House. But I definitely have clients who are much more restrained with their comfort with color than I am. And that is a fun challenge for me also, because that's not my natural spot to go. So one of my favorite projects, it's on my website. Beautiful home in Ross. And the clients were very subdued in their taste, in their appetite for color. And it was a really fun project for me because it really pushed me to play more with some sculptural furniture pieces or have to reach a little bit more with the art and art consultant. And that was a fun challenge, and ultimately, I'm really happy with it. Ironically, they have. Since they are longtime clients, they've since come back to me and said, we wish that we had let you let it rip a little bit more with color. And so as their dogs and cats have destroyed things in their house over the years, people are dialing it up big time because. And not everybody has that opportunity to get a. A Mulligan or a 2.0 version of their house, but. But these guys do. So I think they're. They, you know, people get more comfortable with it as they go, but I've got people all on the spectrum and their love of color.
- [24:14]
Caroline
Well, I absolutely loved that project. I mean, that. I think that was a great example. Just even if the living room did. Did actually have a little bit more neutral, but the neutrals. Blue. They were sort of more on the blue. It was like blue, but gray, I guess. And I did spot a little piece of Ballard in there. A little. A little Miles red console table.
- [24:36]
Palmer Weiss
I think maybe I'm not. I love. I love some Ballard.
- [24:40]
Caroline
Yeah, there were a couple where I was like, okay, I, you know, know the. Know the products, so I. I tend to spot them like Waldo. But. Yeah, so. So that was another. That was one of the living rooms that I. It's almost like there's color, even if it doesn't read as color.
- [24:55]
Palmer Weiss
Right. No, I agree. I agree that one. There were. You know, there were some grays, but the grays had a blue to it. And even. Even the solids in the room were sort of a striae solid with maybe a silk component to it. So when the light hit it differently, it changed color. And so there was more play with, you know, materials and things like that. Ironically, that is one of the rooms that the dogs and cats ruined. And I just put a crazy bold chevron carpet or area rug in that room, but it still feels like them, and it still has all the components from before. All we had to do was swap out a few pillows and things like that. But. But it is fun when people start to get more comfortable and. And when people want to be pushed.
- [25:38]
Caroline
Yeah. Is it hard to revisit a design you've already done. Or is that like.
- [25:43]
Taryn
Or is that fun?
- [25:43]
Caroline
Yeah, it's fun.
- [25:45]
Palmer Weiss
If it's for the right reasons, it's fun.
- [25:47]
Caroline
It's not because they hate it or something.
- [25:50]
Palmer Weiss
This is true. I mean, that's true.
- [25:51]
Caroline
I'm sure that doesn't happen.
- [25:52]
Palmer Weiss
Well, you know, I think, you know, look, we're all human and I think I don't. I'm getting more techie, I guess, but I'm a little bit old school and I don't love to do a lot of renderings and things like that. I think that part of the magic is in taking the leap of faith together and dreaming a little bit and not knowing exactly what something is going to look like when it turns out. There's a little bit of magic in that and that that is necessary. But every now and then, you know, you can have somebody who says, well, wow, I really pictured it this way. And it looks this way. But that's, that's rare, fortunately. But I don't mind revisiting it if it's. We've evolved and it's been. I have clients that I've worked with for 15 years, you know, and, and so their daughters, who started off in a little cute little bunk bed, are now at Harvard. And so they don't want to come home to the cute little bunk bed. So. So that's a fun revisit. It's a fun revisit if, you know, or if it's just a chance to spice things up because it's wear and tear over the years. What I really don't love revisiting is when people see homes and furnishings as more like fast fashion and they just sort of want to, want to throw it out because it's last season. That is, I find very upsetting and not very rewarding because I am, I mean, I'd be hard pressed to call myself a, you know, conservationist or a environmentalist, but I, I really don't like contributing any more than we absolutely have to to.
- [27:26]
Caroline
Sure.
- [27:26]
Palmer Weiss
Landfill and things. So that's not a fun reason to do it.
- [27:30]
Caroline
Yeah. Well, the, the family room in that Ross project I really enjoyed because that, it was another example of, like, there was the sofa sort of red as solid, but it had this sort of texture to the. And there was a kind of tone on tone, like organic fabric. There was a stripe and your eye just kind of floats over. I would love for our, our listeners to go look at that room because the, the layering of the patterns is really, I think, helpful if you're trying to figure out how to add some more texture to your space without it feeling, you know, scary, I guess.
- [28:06]
Palmer Weiss
Right. Well, now it's a good example, too, because that is literally the biggest sectional that either I or my upholster have ever made. And my upholster has been INV Business for a long, long time. It is.
- [28:16]
Caroline
Oh, the teal one.
- [28:17]
Palmer Weiss
Enormous. Is that the one you're talking about?
- [28:19]
Caroline
Well, there's a. Well, I don't know. Maybe it's not the family room. No, that is like the teal one.
- [28:23]
Palmer Weiss
There's a.
- [28:24]
Caroline
There's a. There's a blue rug and, like, this surfboard on the wall.
- [28:30]
Palmer Weiss
Oh, that. Are you talking about? You're talking.
- [28:33]
Caroline
That's. There's a black fire.
- [28:35]
Palmer Weiss
Oh, that's their back. That's their pool house.
- [28:37]
Caroline
Yes, the pool house, yeah. With, like, that sort of bamboo coffee table.
- [28:42]
Palmer Weiss
Yes, yes. And that's.
- [28:43]
Caroline
Well, tell us about the. The sectional, then.
- [28:46]
Palmer Weiss
Well, the sectional. I mean, you know, that's one where. Look, if you're not a little bit nervous as a designer yourself, then you're not pushing yourself. You know, that's. That was one that definitely kept me up at night a little bit, because you can imagine it's like the price of a car by the time you're done making something that huge in San Francisco. It's Also, you know, 100 some odd yards of teal fabric. And, you know, you're just. You are definitely stepping out there. But I felt confident about it because, you know, again, to me, that teal is as neutral as anything. I actually would have been scared to death had it been an oatmeal sectional because it would have looked like a huge, big blob. But that teal is so deep, it sort of recedes into the back, and then whatever pillows then you put on it then can kind of jump towards the forefront and help break up the sectional. It's also as cliche as it is. It's surrounded by windows on two sides, and this property in Ross, and it's. I mean, it's the most beautiful state. It's got greenery all outside. So that teal is in the Green family. So it sort of is one with outside. So it's not. You know, again, I would not have done red or orange or anything like that. So they love it. It's their. You know, once they got over the sticker shock of it all and the. The size of it, it's their family of five with multiple animals and that is where they live, you know, Absolutely live.
- [30:12]
Taryn
I really love the idea of pulling colors from the outside too. When you have that many windows to pick out a color that's both going to complement and still take center stage.
- [30:26]
Palmer Weiss
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, maybe it's one of the reasons I love green so much. I mean, I've always, you know, just love green. I love being outside. I like, you know, nature. I especially, I don't know many people who don't like nature, but I mean, I just, you know, it's again, one of the reasons I live in San Francisco. I'm in the Presidio. I walk outside my door, I smell, you know, fresh cut grass every day. So. But it is, I think that's one of the reasons I feel like green is such a neutral. Like, you walk outside all the time and you're never like, oh my gosh, this is so overwhelming. There's so much color everywhere. You know, it's just green and blue and brown and so those are the most natural colors in the world to seem like neutrals.
- [31:09]
Caroline
Well, that, that room, you know, you have this great big teal sectional as you've mentioned, but you have a, an oatmeal colored grass cloth. You've got a sort of maybe sisal or light colored wool rug. There's a like damask on the Roman shade. So is there, is there? You obviously don't mind using neutrals, but what is it about color on the upholstery that like, is your sort of thing that you like. You can't use the, the oatmeal on it. You know what I mean?
- [31:43]
Palmer Weiss
Interesting. Yeah, I have never really thought about that. I mean, I think, you know, upholstery is very, it's, it's sort of the anchor of the room a lot of times. I mean, a rug can be also, but it's, you know, it's very solid mass. I mean, your sofa is something that is, it's a, it's an anchor for the room. So I think that's one of the reasons. It's one of the first things my eye goes to. So that's why I don't probably want to see a pale neutral. I also am extremely practical. And even though I'm older now with grown kids, I've come up through my entire career with young children myself. All my clients have had young children and animals. And it's just a fact that, you know, pattern, darker, more saturated colors are going to hide stuff more. I happen to have a white lab in addition to a Brown lab. So that doesn't always work with the white labs if they're allowed on the sofas. But I just think, you know, upholstery is, It's. I just have never had the luxury even of doing light upholstery because everybody would ruin it.
- [32:52]
Caroline
Yeah, well, it's, it's funny. I, you know, I've always thought about, like, using a bold color pattern on a bed because in the bedroom, like, your eye has to go to the bed.
- [33:01]
Palmer Weiss
Right?
- [33:02]
Caroline
Like, that's your, is your focal point. But I, I guess it's never occurred to me that the sofa is too. But like, duh, I don't know, it's sort of a light bulb moment saying that. But yeah, like, your sofa should be the focal point of your living room, but somewhere along the way, I think we all sort of maybe, like, there's this myth that it should be neutral. I don't know. But I love using your work as a reason why not to do that and to push ourselves a little.
- [33:33]
Palmer Weiss
Yes. If I can inspire you to do a colored sofa, then this will have been a successful podcast.
- [33:38]
Caroline
Yes, definitely. Well, okay, you're taught, you, you mentioned your girls, and I'm curious how your kids have changed your sort of approach to decor, decorating, or are there things maybe that you did pre kids and post kids that you're like, oh, can't do that anymore, Like, I've learned better or something?
- [33:58]
Palmer Weiss
Well, I did my, I did my first installation on my due date with my first child, so I definitely, I don't have a career pre children, so I, I've always had, I guess, the same approach there. I think I'm a lot more comfortable with imperfection than a lot of, you know, homeowners are particularly, I think, west coast people who don't come from sort of historic towns. I mean, Charleston is known for its patina on everything, you know, crumbling buildings. I have my dining room table because my mom's chandelier fell on it one time when people were working there and it has dings in it. So I took it and it was great. And now it's got a skirt over it. And, you know, I don't want to live in a beat up house, but at the same time, I'm just a lot more comfortable with the imperfections in life. And I think children can teach you anything. It is that, you know, you're, you're gonna live with some imperfections in your life.
- [34:57]
Caroline
Futile to fight it.
- [34:58]
Palmer Weiss
Yes, it is. And, and, and so that's always been a Consideration for me. And different kids, you know, at different ages, you have different issues. You know, the children might care about them hitting their head on the corner of a coffee table. And then when you have teenagers, you might worry about a rager getting thrown in your house when you're out of town. And so you're just constantly evolving issues and then you roll right into grandchildren. So, I mean, I want a home that is very livable, that people feel comfortable in. I mean, that is the point at the end of the day, you know, I always say to my clients, like, I'm not Picasso. I'm not here to. Nobody's putting my work in a museum. Nobody's going to study me. Years to come, all that's going to matter is how you lived in your, in your home and how it felt. And did I provide a good backdrop for you to live a happy life with your family that made you feel good when you sat in your room and, you know, looked around at your things? Do you feel happy in your home? Did you have built good memories there? Were you comfortable with your grandkids running around it? I mean, that is the point of it at the end of the day.
- [36:10]
Caroline
Yeah, we're, we studied you.
- [36:12]
Taryn
Yeah, it's true. You put a post up on Instagram of 13 rooms in 13 years. And it was the most remarkable thing that I've seen because really, the, the work from 13 years ago is just as fresh as the work from today. And what are some things that we can think about in kind of creating that type of longevity and everlasting beauty in our own homes?
- [36:50]
Palmer Weiss
Oh, thank you. That was a fun post to do. In fact, I almost had to lie because some of the ones I wanted to use were like 18 years old. But I didn't feel like going, I'm too tired to go 18 years. But I mean, I think, you know, I. My work always incorporates using antiques and antiques never go out of style. I mean, hence they're back, you know, from 18, 19th century, 18th century. You know, I think never succumbing too much to one craze, whether it's the mid century modern. You know, sure, you can always have a mid century modern piece, but if you go soup to nuts on mid century modern, that one could come and go. But I think antiques are going to stand the test of time always, obviously, and a mix of them. So I would always incorporate antiques. I think using, you'll notice probably I don't do a lot of really modern prints. You know, I. All of my prints that I use are based on some historical print. I mean, even the prints that come out today, you know, whether it's like, I'm good friends with Leo o' Connell or any of these people who are doing prints, you know, I worship Pierre Frey prints, almost all of them. If you go and Google search anything, you can go and find a historical document that they reference. I mean, in art, in fabric, there is no original idea. And I don't mean any, obviously. Those are two of my favorite fabric designers and they're doing fresh, great stuff all the time. But there is some nod to history in everything that those fabrics, that those fabric lines produce. And so, you know, you'll never see me doing like ombre curtains or some wild modern geometric print. So I'd say using more historical based prints or even, you know, an animal print which has stood the test of time. If you can find a picture that has something that references what you're doing 100 years ago, then you're good to go. And classic shapes. And I think proportion also is huge and, and classic lines of upholstery. You know, I've never been one to do, you know, a rounded sofa. No, no disrespect. I'm sure people have done them and they've looked fabulous. But you know, those were kind of in vogue in the 70s and maybe they're back now and maybe they'll go out again. But I've never seen, you know, an English arm sofa go out of style ever. So I think, you know, using some of those classic pieces and then, you know, again, because you don't want things to feel staid. I think you can always dial up the funky factor with one off pieces or art or lamps or lampshades. I definitely like to, I tend to use a bit more modern lighting a lot of the time. I think that's always one of my levers I like to pull when I want to keep things in this century. So.
- [39:41]
Taryn
No, that totally helps. And that's a great tip to like throw in a little piece of modern jewelry with the lighting because that's what we would do with our outfits.
- [39:51]
Palmer Weiss
Exactly, exactly.
- [39:54]
Taryn
Yeah. And that's such a great tip about the patterns too, because you do use so much pattern mixed in with all of these really beautiful colors. But yeah, nothing ever feels old. It all still feels traditional, fresh, modern, while feeling very accessible and, and timeless.
- [40:21]
Palmer Weiss
Thank you.
- [40:22]
Caroline
I think your own house was on your, on your website and I loved seeing that. I was curious if, you know, what sort of pieces maybe you brought with you. I loved Hearing about your mom's dining table because the chandelier fell on it. Are there any other pieces that you've sort of brought in and does. Can it be challenging to use, I guess, things that your clients may already have and how to reimagine them?
- [40:50]
Palmer Weiss
Yes, I mean it's. I have a funny story with my husband who when we first got married, you know, we were living in said basement apartment and he was a, he's a doctor, he was a fellow at the time. And I basically, when I moved in, sort of took everything that he owned and put it on the street a little bit. I mean, it's how he tells it, which is not entirely false. But he, his grandfather was a big artist, kind of a famous artist, but his art is not really my style. And so there is this massive painting that we've had to live with. It's huge, it's on glass, it's very heavy, which is a whole different thing in earthquake territory here. So it has been literally sort of the, you know, the symbolic albatross of our marriage. Figuring out where we're going to put that piece and how we can accommodate it because it's a. He, he bent on all the furniture, but he is not bending on that piece. And so even when we bought our home that we're in today, literally as I'm walking through the home because it is such an enormous piece and such a statement, I was looking around like, where can I, where can I put this piece that will not cause a divorce and if I can't find a place and we can't buy this house. So I'm very sympathetic to finding pieces that are accommodating, pieces that are important to people. And I think again back to the statement about me not being Picasso and this being your home that you need to live in, you need to live in with things that feel good to you and that are important to you. And if it's important to you, then I'm going to figure out a way to make it important to me. Um, that said, I feel like I'm also your financial advisor because we are going to spend a lot of money on something and I don't like to throw good money after bad. And so if it's just that you have a piece that you know doesn't really mean anything to you, but you own it and you know your mother in law is going to be mad if you don't use it or something like that, but it's going to destroy this room or cause me to make Sacrifices in my design to accommodate it in this room, you know, and let's say you're going to spend, you know, $60,000 to save something that costs $2,000. That is very poor financial decision making. So I do, you know, really try to help people think through things that way as well. Because as much as your home is a personal and emotional investment, it is very much a financial investment. And I feel like it's my duty to tell you when you're making bad choices.
- [43:26]
Caroline
That makes sense. I, I, Then you can throw me.
- [43:29]
Palmer Weiss
Under the bus with your mother in law.
- [43:31]
Caroline
Exactly. This is my designer. She wanted to get rid of it. Well, no, I just loved seeing this, the traditional sort of element in San Francisco because I think so many of us, when we think about interior design in California, we have this very kind of, you know, clean, modern, kind of all neutral sort of vibe. And so it's, it's always like such a delight to see a different, I think, approach, you know, something that's a little bit more, yeah, traditional. And, and even the, the project that you did out in, let's see, I want to say that it was Petaluma.
- [44:15]
Palmer Weiss
Oh, Petaluma. Yes.
- [44:16]
Caroline
I thought that was an interesting project because the, the bones of the house were a little bit more on the modern side with the, you know, steel windows and the black and white. But then the interior design was, was so traditional. Would you tell our listeners about that project a little bit?
- [44:34]
Palmer Weiss
Sure.
- [44:34]
Caroline
Because you've got a raspberry sort of plum kitchen, lots of sort of English cottage.
- [44:41]
Palmer Weiss
That was a great project. I mean, it helps when your clients, it's very chic, you know, people with a distinct point of view, which helped, you know, inform my design. But that was a new build. But in this very, you know, beautiful site, multiple acres, where there was an original barn and there's a whole movement out here in, you know, wine country called Barnatecture, which can be great when it's done right and can be very cliche when it's done wrong and also is just a little bit played. And so, you know, it was a little bit of a starting point for how we were doing this, but the architect, Charlie Barnett, did such an amazing job of citing this as sort of more of a compound. And so you, I don't know how much you can tell from the website photos, but you sort of drive in and you're greeted by this massive barn, but then you go through this other courtyard, you know, before you actually wander into the home. So it's this very sort of it feels old worldy just in the way that you approach the home. You know, it's not just drive up to the front do and walk in the front door. It's sort of this evolved European feel where maybe people know how to slither their way through the courtyard and find the entrance to the home. But the house was based on a more modern, you know, aesthetic. You know, modern. Modern barn, but. But with the steel windows. But then again, with the yin and the yang, you know, more of the reclaimed barn would look to the exterior, even though it's not reclaimed. And one of the things that I really, I would like to say got a big hand in is what was very important to me was adding finishes and details to the interior. Because you take a more modern barnatecture interior that has the steel windows, and you put sheetrock on the walls and it feels very modern. You put beadboard or shiplap on the walls or on the ceilings. And now it feels like, huh, did we find this old space and then come and refurbish it and put steel windows in? Or what happened? Like, how. How did this down, you know, and put like the old wood on the fireplace? I mean, we put a lot of work into distressing that wood. And I wanted the paint job to be bad on it. You know, I had to, like, argue with the painter. I want to see the knots in the wood. I want to see, you know, I want you to look like you just kind of put a coat on and then took your lunch break and never came back. So, you know, sort of seeking for some imperfections. So that was really the mantra there. And then, you know what's fascinating? I'm not really a student of it, but what's fascinating about, like, Scandinavian and Swedish design is that they. There is a very modern nest to that design, even in historical periods. I feel like. Like if you look at a Swedish flat weave rug, even though it's a traditional construction, it's a, you know, maybe based on it can have some traditional elements to it. A lot of the patterns and things feel very modern, and I'm just kind of fascinated by how they walk that line. And the client was fascinated by some components of that design as well. So that was sort of a jumping off point for us. And you'll notice some of the rugs in the space are informed by that. But, you know, the example of those cabinets, which are done in brinjal by Farrow and Ball, you know, those ceilings are like 25ft tall or something. 24. I don't know, 22, 25. Something crazy. And, you know, my worst nightmare is for something to feel like a big air hanger. And so you can't have one entire wall, which is that entire wall, just be white cabinetry. It would feel so sterile and devoid of interest and so thankful. Client was with me on you know, putting this bold color there, playing off of the incredible Calcutta viola that we were able to find the stone. And then, you know, mixing in the wood elements again so that it's just not a big, purplish wall. It has, you know, those breaking points to it. And by mixing the wood, that also is something that would feel more evolved, maybe like, oh, we replaced some doors and drawer fronts. Or, you know, I used to have a wood kitchen, and I decided to paint half of it kind of thing.
- [49:05]
Caroline
That color is just gorgeous. And I love the way you. You use the teal stool on it because it just jumps right off of it. And, like, what a bold choice.
- [49:17]
Palmer Weiss
I mean, it's tricky with these. Clients often ask me. I really. I'm not a fan of open floor plans. I don't love them. I think there's been this movement in the last however many years. 30, 40, I don't know how many, but to have this open floor plan. And people love that because they think it, you know, makes your house still bigger or more expansive. And I'm not normally a huge fan of it because I feel like I like more intimate spaces. If you have an open floor plan, sure, you can talk to your friend who's sitting on the sofa while you're cooking. But now you've also just made this room have mean that only one group of people can be doing one thing at any given time because, you know, somebody can't be watching television and somebody else cooking and talking to their friend and somebody else sitting at the dining room table. So. But in any event, in this particular house, it obviously made sense for a variety of reasons. But one of the reasons I also don't love open floor plans is I can't stand to be limited by color palette. I want to use multiple colors in a house. I don't want three rooms to have the same color palette. Like, so. But then clients get very twitchy about, well, you know, how are you going to use that color here and then a different color in my living room? And is it going to be crazy? And so there's this concept of, like, pulling a thread, you know, through. Through the spaces. And so that teal shows up, you know, in multiple places. Subtle or not subtle. And so does the, you know, that sort of rich wine color.
- [50:48]
Taryn
Yeah, they both show up in the family room. And I feel like you did such a fantastic job. That room is enormous. And I love the way that you broke that room up with rugs. So you have a really giant rug that's holding, you know, the chairs, coffee table, and sectional. And then there's a wide runner that runs behind the sectional and creates a whole other use of the space where there's a console as a desk and another seating area. How did you work through that type of floor plan?
- [51:27]
Palmer Weiss
Well, in a TV room, it gets pretty practical because, you know, bigger is not always better in a TV room, because unless you have a full. In home theater, you don't want to be 20ft away from your television. And so, you know, I don't like to be more than like 12ft away, 13ft away, even from the biggest TV. And maybe that's just me with my old eyes. But, you know, I. I think you want to have a gathering around a television if that's really the point of the room, which this one is a little bit. And I don't like TVs to get to be the size of the entire wall. So that gets pretty, you know, pretty easy to do. I do love the concept of a multipurpose room also. You know, particularly this is a family with children. Yes, they watch television, but they also do other things. So the back half of the room serves as a game room, a puzzle. You know, you can do puzzles back there. You could, you know, sit and work on your laptop if you needed to, etc. So I like. If a room is going to be that big, I'd love to make it for something other than just solely television watching, you know, particularly for these people who do a lot of other things. But to your point, the rug is a great way to delineate that because you want to create interest and clearly marked areas, but you still need the room to feel cohesive. And so I love a cozy rug underfoot, you know, if it's near where the sectional is. But I'm a huge fan of antique carpets for a variety of reasons. I love the way they look. They're very durable, actually, because, you know, they've made it this long, they're going to make it another couple hundred years. So I think that's a fun way to mix the two rooms. And I probably. I don't know that I would do it with just a regularly patterned rug. I'd probably, you know, the antique Your brain sort of already understands, like, oh, this is different. You know, this. This has a right to be different because this is an antique and not a new rug.
- [53:29]
Caroline
Before we wrap up, I wanted to ask about window treatments, because you approach window treatments in so many different ways. You know, you've got some with very elaborate, like cortis boards and fringe, and then in some places you use a very, you know, sort of neutral coordinating with the wall color, you know, pinch pleat. So I'm curious how your window treatment like, approach in the room complements sort of like, do you. Do you take a similar approach to the way you do upholstery because it is a textile? Or is there kind of a thought. What's the thought process there?
- [54:06]
Palmer Weiss
I guess that's another one that's probably like a little bit, you know, falls into the how do you breathe? Category. But. But I will say, as unsexy as it sounds, a lot of my window treatments start with a practical consideration. So if they're going to be motorized, for instance, like, am I hiding stuff? Do I need to hide a motor? Is it going to project too much off the wall because of the motor? So I need a valance. And then I'm going to roll the window treatment backwards so that it hugs the. Hugs the window and doesn't let any light bleed in. Is the. You know, I will do anything not to have a bypass ring on a window treatment because they never work and they jump. So, you know, is the window so heavy that I'm going to have too fat of a rod? And so I don't want to have a rod because I have all sorts of little ticks that way, you know, in terms of, like, what thickness of brass rod I'll. I'll allow. Have happen. So it definitely starts, sadly, with a lot of practical considerations. But the practical considerations have very big aesthetic ramifications. So it's really important to wrap your head around that before you get too attached to any one design. That being said, it's a little bit like, you know, sometimes I want to dial up the pattern, and sometimes I don't. Or sometimes I want to swath a room in the entire, you know, as much of a pattern as somebody will allow me. And so I'm going to put the pattern on the sofa and on the windows and on the walls and the whole thing. And. And sometimes, you know, I'm not going to be able to. Or, for example, I think there's a bedroom in there, which is actually one of my favorite bedrooms. But, you know, I was trying to. It has like a petite print on the walls which could feel more feminine, but I wanted to make sure that the room felt more gender neutral. And so then, you know, that's just a whole nother lever you have to pull at the windows in terms of. Okay, well, if I wanted to feel more gender neutral than I'm not going to do like roughly, I'm not going to do like a flouncy balance and I'm going to do, you know, a more tailored pinch pleat and I'm going to have it be pinstripes instead of a floral. So both the style and the fabric that you use can, can help with that.
- [56:21]
Caroline
Do you ever feel like there needs to be a consistency amongst the treatments throughout the house or can you. Is each room its own space and you can like dress them according to the room, not the house?
- [56:34]
Palmer Weiss
Yeah, I do it by the room. I mean there are only a few things that I, I don't really. I try not to have too many, like hard nos. But for instance, I probably wouldn't do a house where I did inside melt for some of the Romans and outside melt for others of the Romans. I happen to not like inside Mount Romans and I will for a variety of reasons and I will do anything not to use them. Sometimes you don't have a choice. But I'll usually try to come up with another solution, whether it's a cafe curtain or something. El than do that. But. But no, I think in that regard every room gets its own treatment and different rooms have different needs. You know, some rooms you want to have a sheer up all the time just for a little bit of privacy. Some you need blackout, some they don't need to move. I mean, I think in the window treatments in that, in that main huge space that we're talking about, the Petaluma project, they are technically non functioning windows. You know, if I do non functioning window treatments, I want to make sure that they look like they can function because there's nothing worse than skimpy drapes. But they don't function. So every room dictates its own treatment.
- [57:41]
Caroline
Yeah. Well, I hope people can take the time to go look at your portfolio because it is just such a great study in color and pattern and I learned so much. So. And thank you for chatting with us today.
- [57:52]
Palmer Weiss
Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it.
- [57:55]
Caroline
Can you tell everyone where they can find you, follow you and see your work?
- [57:59]
Palmer Weiss
Absolutely. Well, my website is just PalmerWeiss.com and I'm on Instagram at Palmerweiss, and I dabble on threads. I don't even know what my handle is, and I dabble on TikTok. But I think Instagram and my website are probably the best.
- [58:18]
Caroline
You just had something featured in House Beautiful, I want to say in January. Anything coming up that we need to look out for?
- [58:26]
Palmer Weiss
Hopefully. Hopefully. We. We always have a few things in the works, so I don't. I. I can't give anything away right yet, but.
- [58:35]
Caroline
All right, well, we'll. We'll follow your Instagram to see any news. Yes. I hope you're gonna make a book. Are you gonna have a book at some point? I hope so. I'll.
- [58:45]
Palmer Weiss
I'll.
- [58:45]
Caroline
I'm gonna.
- [58:46]
Palmer Weiss
Pretty much, yeah. Thank you.
- [58:49]
Caroline
All right, well, that's our show. And that's our show. You can find all of the show notes on our blog howtodecorate.com podcast to send in a decorating dilemma. Email your questions to podcastallarddesigns.net so we can help you with your space. And of course, be sure to follow us on social media. AlardDesigns.
- [59:07]
Taryn
Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. And please leave us a review. We'd love to hear your feedback.
- [59:13]
Caroline
Until next time, happy decorating.