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Ep. 453: Carson Kressley Mini-Series Pt. 1 - Thom Filicia - How to Decorate | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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Ep. 453: Carson Kressley Mini-Series Pt. 1 - Thom Filicia

How to Decorate

Tue Feb 17 2026

Ep. 453

Summary

How to Decorate, Ep. 453: Carson Kressley Takeover Pt. 1 – Thom Filicia

Podcast: How to Decorate (Ballard Designs)
Release Date: February 17, 2026

Episode Overview

This special episode marks the launch of a four-part miniseries co-hosted by TV personality and style icon Carson Kressley, celebrating his new Ballard Designs collection. In Part One, Carson is joined by his longtime friend and design collaborator Thom Filicia—an Emmy-winning Queer Eye alum and celebrated designer. The conversation is lively, humorous, and packed with personal stories, expert tips, and practical advice on turning homes and spaces into reflections of their owners’ lives, styles, and stories.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. The Carson Kressley Miniseries and Dynamic with Thom Filicia

[00:00-07:21] Carson joyfully kicks off his guest-hosting run, sharing excitement for his Ballard collection and previewing upcoming guests.
Highlights the close, playful relationship with Thom, their collaborations (Queer Eye, "Get a Room"), and their mutual admiration.

2. Behind the Scenes in the Design World

[08:31-14:49] The duo recounts their antics hosting the Arts Awards, providing a window into the often-overlooked role of industry organizations and award shows.
Quote:

“The Emmys for furniture…they have a category for accent furniture!”
— Carson [11:10]

3. Designing Your Own Home: A ‘Designer’s Laboratory’

[15:32-18:15] Thom discusses the challenges and creative freedom of decorating his own homes, including his new Aspen condo and Sag Harbor house.
Stresses the importance of value engineering and balancing creativity with budget constraints.
Design should be durable and personalized, especially for active lifestyles or lending to friends.

4. Personal Style, Paralysis, and Accessibility

[20:15-22:15] Both discuss the difficulty of making decisions for one’s own space—even professionals get “design paralysis.”
The conversation touches on how to help clients (or oneself) break through indecision by connecting home choices to personal style.
Quote:

“The minute you start talking about home accessories or tabletop…people sort of get paralyzed because they feel like it’s a decision they’re not comfortable with making every day.”
— Thom [20:44]

5. Translating Personal Aesthetics Into Home Design

[22:01-25:46] Insights from Thom’s show "Dress My Nest"—he relates decorating to a language clients understand (fashion, cars, etc.) to empower their decisions.
Participation and personalization are at the heart of great design.

6. Signature Thom Filicia Style

[25:46-30:33] Carson describes Thom’s style as “masculine, contemporary, clean, layered, but also incredibly warm.”
Thom prefers “balance” over the sometimes-vague term “transitional,” aiming for spaces that are rooted in classic design yet fresh and approachable.
Quote:

“I much prefer the word ‘balance’ to ‘transitional’…Balance is about working together, whereas transitional … is just sort of standing apart and being in the middle.”
— Thom [29:31]

7. Celebrity Clients and Confidence in Design

[30:59-35:00] Thom shares stories of designing for Iman and David Bowie, emphasizing the importance of authenticity, personality, and being comfortable in one’s own skin for successful spaces.
Quote:

“If there’s one bit of advice…be authentic…This is about you. This isn’t about winning.”
— Thom [33:35]

8. High/Low Design and Editing

[39:21-44:46] Recalling their TV show "Get a Room," Carson recounts learning the importance of “editing” from Thom—knowing when to curate and let special items stand out.
Both advocate for mixing high- and low-end pieces for a livable, unique space.

9. On Trends and Timelessness

[47:15-48:48] Trends can add freshness but shouldn’t dominate your entire décor. Refresh a room with small elements (plants, pillows, coffee tables) and focus on editing and decluttering regularly.
Replace “spring cleaning” with “seasonal cleaning”—make it habitual.

10. Warmth, Comfort, and Imperfection

[50:07-52:53] Strive for a home that’s not too “buttoned up” or perfect—leave a margin for lived-in imperfection so people feel relaxed and welcome.
Quote:

“That little bit of imperfection is what allows people to be like—to feel like they can breathe in a space.”
— Thom [50:36]

11. Lessons from Design Legends

[53:04-61:04] Thom reflects on mentorships and advice from design icons like Albert Hadley and Sister Parish.
- Albert Hadley: “Every room needs a surprise.” Don’t be predictable; add something quirky or unexpected.

12. Advice for Young Designers

[62:16-64:48] Take your work seriously, not yourself. Don’t be pretentious.
Value internships and soak up every role and skill in the business—from emptying trash to selecting fabrics.
Quote:

“Do as much…If you can do every job, from emptying the waste baskets to drawing the elevations…that will help.”
— Thom [64:08]

Memorable Quotes & Moments

Carson’s Introduction:

“It’s one of my most exciting things that’s ever happened to me, and I’ve done some exciting things, but I just love this partnership…”
[00:28]
Arts Awards Fun:

“We keep hidden bottles of wine around. It’s like an Easter egg hunt.”
— Thom [10:13]
On Aspen:

“I was very lucky to find a little teeny, tiny condo right in the village of Aspen…that actually was my Christmas present to myself and Lago, my dog.”
— Thom [11:45]
On Editing:

“Editing is something that I learned from Tom. It’s so important ‘cause it makes the good stuff sing.”
— Carson [43:01]
On Making Home Personal:

“I always think that…rooms, homes, offices, whatever you’re designing should be autobiographical.”
— Carson [36:27]
On Warmth and Hosting:

“The way that you describe an interior should be the way you describe your best friend.”
— Thom [38:59]
From the Legends:

“Every room needs a surprise.”
— Albert Hadley via Thom [55:37]

Timestamps for Important Segments

00:00–07:21 – Miniseries introduction, Carson’s excitement, and intro of Thom Filicia
08:31–11:32 – Hosting the Arts Awards—insider industry stories
15:32–18:15 – Thom on designing his own homes: freedom, challenges, and value
20:15–22:15 – Overcoming “design paralysis” and how professionals relate
22:01–25:46 – Translating fashion or other passions into personal design
29:31 – Thom on why he prefers “balance” to “transitional”
33:35 – Importance of authenticity in design
39:21–44:46 – “Get a Room” show memories, high/low philosophy, editing
53:04–61:04 – Mentors and legendary advice: Albert Hadley’s “surprise”
62:16–64:48 – Career advice for aspiring designers

Where to Find the Guests

Thom Filicia:
- Sedgwick & Brattle showroom (NY Design Center: to the trade weekdays, open to all Saturdays)
- thomfilicia.com
- Instagram: @thomfilicia
- Books: American Beauty and others (Amazon, Rizzoli)

Tone and Takeaways

Filled with wit, warmth, and insider knowledge, this episode is ideal for anyone looking for decorating inspiration and encouragement. Carson and Thom embody design as joyful, approachable, and authentic—emphasizing that a home should tell your unique story, be livable not just “impressive,” and include little surprises that make life (and rooms) memorable.

Tune in for the next installment with the Junk Gypsies from Round Top, Texas!

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Transcript

A (0:00)

Okay, welcome back to the show. We have a very exciting new miniseries that we're launching today. Our first episode. If any of you have been following us on social media, you know that we've launched our latest partner collection. A new partner, Carson Kressley. You all know him, he's our most repeated guest on the show. He is a listener of the podcast, and so we thought it only fit to have him co host with us for four episodes and bring some of his favorite friends. So, Carson, welcome to the podcast.

B (0:28)

Thank you so much. This is a dream. You know, I'm up. I'm a Ballard super fan, as I've said before, and I love the podcast and I love the brand and I love when the catalog arrives, and to be part of it is just. It's one of my most exciting things that's ever happened to me, and I've done some exciting things, but I just love this partnership and I love the pieces, and they're very special to me and personal to me and authentic. And some of my own items from my own home that we've reimagined and some items that we've created just for our friends at Ballard, so I could talk about it all day. I have pictures of my Cisco side table in my wallet already, and I show people at the bus station every morning. Now that I'm doing a collab with you guys, you had the brilliant idea of having me come on and do a little miniseries, and I've always wanted to be in a miniseries. I thought it was gonna be on tv maybe, you know, like a romantic four part drama. But I'll take design any day because I love it so much. And we get to talk about my collection. But more important, we get to meet some of my stylish friends who owed me podcast engagements because I've done theirs. And, you know, it's people like my longtime friend and design buddy, Tom Felicia from Queer Eye. And of course, we did a show on Bravo called Get a Room with Carson. And Tom, he is, you know, such an incredible, amazing designer, a great friend. I've learned so much from him, and I think he might have learned a few things from me. And then we have my good friend Bobby Flay. We're gonna talk about entertaining and kitchen design and, you know, how to be the perfect host, which he is. And then junk gypsies, I don't know if you know them, dear listener, but they are a fabulous design duo in Round Top, Texas. And we're gonna talk all about the Round Top experience and thrifting and one of a kind finds can really define your space and personalize it. And then last but not least, we have the grande dame of Southern charm, Pat Altschul. She is a great friend of mine. We love to go get a Costco hot dog together. So we're gonna get some inside scoop on not only Southern charm, but how to decorate with Southern charm. So I am very excited. You can't. I'm not shutting up, so make me stop.

A (2:55)

Each of the episodes was so fun to record. And you know, Liz and Taryn and I, we were sort of, we were kind of guests in this episode, which was really fun because you as our co host was really leading the way and it was just a great conversation. So I'm excited for people to hear it. And this is our first episode in the miniseries with Tom. Like you mentioned, you're a longtime collaborator. He's been on the show twice and we kind of revisited some of those memories, but also heard about some of his more recent adventures and decorating. And so I think that it's time to get to the conversation.

D (15:52)

I mean, I would say. Okay. First and foremost, I think the thing that's really interesting about doing your own place is that you're. I feel like most designers are a lot more creative with their own spaces for a couple of reasons. One is you're your own client, so you can kind of push the envelope a little bit. But also it's really. Sometimes it's a real exercise in value engineering because you can really look at what you're doing and you're generally trying to do it on a different budget than your client. So it really does give you an exercise in sort of how to do things that you're really excited about, maybe that you haven't done yet or you haven't been able to convince somebody to do. But how do you do it and also do it in a way where you kind of get that same aesthetic without, you know, some of the things that maybe you just don't fit your budget. So I think that's great and I think it's exciting. I think sometimes when you are trying to do things that you're excited about, but do them in a cost effective way, I think it really pushes your creativity. And I think it, you know, kind of gets you to really sort of thinking about a mix of materials or what's out there or, you know, and just using materials sometimes. Like, what's really great about what I'm doing in Colorado for myself is that I'm also trying to make it incredibly durable so that if I were to lend it to friends or, you know, people are walking around, people like, I. I'm so close to the mountain, which is awesome. So I was in my house, I was in my condo with my ski boots on, like walking my dog and then running across the street for apres ski. So it's like, you know what I mean? Like, so I want it to not be something that's really precious, but I want it to look cool and be interesting and be very comfortable and be very functional and chic, you know, sort of, sort of like it needs to kind of tap into all of those things. So I think it's really great when you're doing your own places because it is that sort of laboratory in those ways. I mean, I'm also doing my house out east, you know, the one that you were at in Sag Harbor. And that one's a totally different thing because people aren't walking. They're Usually barefooter and flip flops or, you know, or, you know, just the only thing I worry about there is really like, you know, dogs and, you know, you know, people falling in the pool.

D (22:15)

Well, you know, it in an. In. In a certain. At a certain level, yes. But I mean, that was a very kind of made for everyone to understand and really participate and see. So the idea was that these were women who had a very distinct sense of style, whether they were, like, boho chic or whether they were like, you know, like, very conservative and kind of business you know, sort of gal type, or they were just kind of like, cool mom. Whatever their aesthetic was, they were really good at their personal aesthetic. But when you would go into their house, they were a complete and utter train wreck. They had no idea what they were doing. They just were making mistakes around every corner. They couldn't get it together. They were confused. They were overwhelmed. It was too much. And so the idea of taking something that somebody is really good at, like, for example, taking this out of, like, sort of the. The space of dress, my nest. Like, if I'm talking to a husband of, you know, husband and wife, and the husband is like, I know nothing about design. If I start talking to him about cars, he knows everything in the world about design. So I know that if I relate, like, if I say, like, that sofa is really cool, but it's kind of like a 9 11. It's like the kind of sofa you might sit in on a weekend, but it's not an everyday sofa. It's not like. You know what I mean? It's not like an Audi allroad, you know what I mean? So, like, all of a sudden, he's like, oh, my God, I totally get it. We need an Audi All Road in our family room. And I'm like, yeah, this is the Audi all road. That's the 911. And so all of a sudden, you're speaking the language of. And you're basically giving someone a comfort zone, and you're giving them the opportunity to connect with something that they understand and that they're comfortable with. So it's just understanding your audience, knowing how to, like, connect with them, making them feel comfortable, making them feel empowered to be a part of the conversation. I mean, Carson, you're. You know, I think you and I are both the kind of people that when we go to a cocktail party or a dinner party and we sit next to somebody and one person on one side is amazing and, like, super gregarious, and then the other person's floundering. Don't you feel like you're able to kind of connect those two people and get the floundering person to kind of come alive? Because you're able to sort of pull the. Whatever it is about them that they are confident in out. It's the same thing you do when you're meeting with clients. It's the same concept. And so you want to give them. You don't want one person to feel like they're sort of directing the show and that the other person is kind of floundering. So I think at a certain level, you know, designers, we always say, like, we're like, you know, we have to be a psychologist as well, but it's really just about kind of caring about the people that you're working with, wanting them to have a good experience. And also, you really. I really want them to participate because I want them to feel like, at the end of the day, this journey is about creating a space that typifies them and not really typifies me. And it allows me as a designer to have, like, a little bit of a variation in a different journey on sort of the look and feel and the aesthetic and the point of view that I bring to the table. So it's not always the same thing. I don't love. I don't love just sort of delivering my product. I like delivering something that feels fresh and new and personalized, you know, to that. To the client, the location, the lifestyle of that first, second, or third home, whatever it is. So, yeah, anyways, that's kind of. That's my thing.

D (27:29)

World of product, I use not only our product, but I use almost every other product that you can imagine. I mean, like, you know, we're shopping at, you know, and for example, on my floor at the New York Design Center, Sedgwick and Brattle, my space. But we are in Verellon, which is, like, right next door to us, or like we're. We are in our showrooms, the other four showrooms on our floor all the time. And whether it's, you know, whether we're getting paints from Benjamin Moore or whatever it is, I mean, so we use everybody. We work with everybody. And it really depends on what the project is and the personality of the project. I think a lot of times, you know, I always say that what I love to do is sort of cool down a Georgian and warm up a glass box. And so that sort of urban sort of glass box or that, you know, that sort of really modern house at the beach, I like to sort of warm that up and that really sort of like, beautiful renovated barn or that incredible sort of Georgian colonial. I like to really cool that down and make it feel fresh and crisp and clean. And I love sort of landing in that middle space. And so that's really what I love to do. And I think of the work that I do as being very traditional and rooted in classic sort of clean, fresh design. I wouldn't say it's very traditional because I don't think I'm a very traditional person. But it has elements of tradition. But I would say it lands in a place of classic and timeless or sort of classic and timely. I don't even see myself as being truly modern. So it's really kind of using those kind of words. It is. I mean, transitional, I feel like, is kind of a. I think that's a very specific space. I think what we do is really more of a balancing act and play with a lot of nuance of those. You know, you're looking at, you know, transitional is just sort of always being in the middle. I think what I'm doing is really balancing sort of the things from the far ends and bringing them together. So it's really looking at the materiality of the architecture and sort of saying, okay, what is this materiality? Is it rustic? Is it warm? Is it very layered? Is it very. Just the materials of the environment? And then when you start looking at the things that you bring into it, you want to bring things in that are clean, they're clear, they're maybe man made, as opposed to handmade, to really get that contrast and create that balance. So in a weird way, I much prefer the word balance to transitional because to me, balance is. Is about sort of working together, whereas transitional to me is just sort of like standing apart and being in the middle. And so, I don't know. To me, it's a. I think I. I like the idea of it being more inclusive about the overall experience, if that.

D (31:17)

Well, so, I mean, with that. Yes. He was amazing, and he was such a cool person and such an incredible artist. And Iman is amazing as well, and she's, you know, they're two very, you know, accomplished, creative people on their own and as a team. They were very much a team, which is really beautiful to see, because you don't always see that in anybody, in any client, whether they're just. They live down, you know, they live in Tribeca or they're on television and they're a superstar or a rock star. No, they. He. He was a really incredible, you know, creative genius and a lot of fun to work with and had a really great personality and a very cool aesthetic. And she's also. Same way. They were lovely. And it was so. Yeah, it was really, you know, it was very, very sad when he passed, but they were quirky, quirky, quirky and. And cool. And their place that I designed for them outside of the city was really spectacular and just filled with really interesting art. And they just, you know, they just. Two people that are very open to. To really a lot of different, you know, beautiful things and coming up with a way to bring all of those things together and make Them live sort of in harmony and sort of tell a sort of a collected story that was unified, basically, for both of them, was really fun because they. They just, you know, they're. They're. They're. They're just. There's a lot of ideas and personality and creativity going into sort of their aesthetic. So that was really fun. They're also very straightforward, down to earth and confident people, which is really lovely. I mean, I think anyone designing anything or anyone picking out an outfit or looking at jewelry. When you're comfortable in your own skin and you're confident in your person and who you are and you're not trying to put on errors or trying to, like, fit in or, like, trying to, like, keep up with anybody, it's just such a different experience, you know, because you're. There's an authenticity to what you're doing. You're having fun with it. It's real. It's cool. I mean, I just always tell people, you know, I said, if there's one. It's bit of advice I give people when they're designing is like, you know, just, you know, be authentic and be like, let it be exact. Like, this is about you. This isn't about winning. This isn't about having something that someone else doesn't have. This isn't about keeping up with anybody. This is about creating a space where you feel comfortable. And it sort of. Sort of is creating, you know, it's personalizing your. Your world and. And just having the luxury to be able to do that, you know, is. Is a wonderful place to be in your life. And so I hope that people, you know, it's always fun to work with people that are comfortable in their skin because the design feels so much more energetic and light and fresh, and it's full of personality, whether it's clean and simple or it's, you know, or it's, you know, it's layered to the. You know, to the last layer. It just. It's fun, you know, when you go into someone's environment and it's unpretentious and cool and fun and interesting, and there's a lot to look at, and it just. It tells your story, and they're excited about it and they're connected to everything. It's a very different experience than someone who's like, you know, I. I didn't. I don't really. I know nothing about this. It just looks pretty and it was expensive. It's a different experience.

D (37:19)

Yes, I agree. And I think also, I think when someone walks into a space and they. A friend walks into someone's space, and they feel like. It feels like the people they know, even though it's like a very elevated, kind of new, fresh, different, very thoughtful version of maybe what was there before, but they know it's been elevated, and they know that they've worked with maybe somebody to do that, or they've gotten ideas from somewhere, but they still feel like. It feels like this is definitely my friend's place. And I can see all of the things that are kind of like what was here before, but is so much better version of that. And it feels so much better. It looks so much better, but it still feels like them think that's when you know it's a success. Like, I think that's when you know a space is. Ben. I think, as a designer, to me, when. When people say, this looks like this totally is them. This is like their thing. I can like this with. The minute I walked in, I was like, oh, my God, this is so Sarah and Bill, I think, oh, my God, this is so them. I think that's like, that's. That's like, that's when you know you. You're doing what you should be doing. And by the way, even if you say, like, commercial, think of a commercial job like a restaurant. Like, going into a restaurant and, like, looking at the design of the restaurant and kind of knowing what you're going to be eating and knowing what those flavors are going to be is kind of understanding that environment. Or when you look at a hotel that you love, a brand that you love, and the interiors kind of really speak to the experience of where you are, what it's going to be like, what the vibe is like. It's totally chill, it's cool, it's relaxing, but it's super chic. It's unpretentious. Like, all of those things. I always say the way that you describe an interior should be the way you describe your best friend. You know, it should be, like, fun and interesting and cool and down to earth. And I love to get drunk, But, I mean, I think that's the best way to describe an interior, is that it should sound like you're talking about a best friend.

D (44:11)

Yeah, but I mean, like, think of all the things people. I mean, like, I mean, just look. It's so funny. I mean, how many restaurants now serve, like, caviar and potato chips? Or look at, like, just sort of, like, everyone's Wearing like a T shirt that costs $9 from, you know, like their favorite, like, store where you can get something like that with like a $2,000 bill, you know what I mean? Or, you know, like, really fabulous, like, cool sneakers that, like, that are hard to get and are like, you have to get a mortgage to buy them. And then you're wearing them with, like, your favorite jeans you've had forever. So it's like, I just think that, like, that's kind of the way we live today. And I think, think if you're an interesting, cool person, that mix is how you sort of create the combination that makes sense for the event and the things that you're doing in that day. From a fashion standpoint, that's the same thing you do with a house. You know, in the. There are certain rooms where the combination might lean a little bit more high and a little bit less low. Then there are rooms where you do just the opposite. And then you go into a kid's room or a kid's space or the family room, maybe the entrance hall has like, a little bit of, like, you kind of do all of those things so that it's sort of appealing to everybody and it doesn't feel too pretentious. But then you go into like another room where you can like, really go kind of crazy and like, really push like all of the envelope and like, go crazy with your budget and do things that are maybe a place that you're not worried the kids are going to, you know, sort of run around. But like, I think that is the way we live. And I think to celebrate that is really cool. And I love the idea that, that I think high, low is. Is how people are cooking. It's everything. It's just like mixing really high end ingredients with everyday things I think is a really nice way of being sort of a thoughtful, global kind of person. You know what I mean? It's just like things from all over the world, things from your childhood mixed with things that you were so excited about getting as an adult and letting those things sort of play well together. I think it's a great way to create a very personalized space that doesn't feel like everything else that's out there. And I think that's. I feel like that's everyone. I think the idea of personalizing your interiors is really what people are doing across the board, whether it's food or fashion, interiors, all of those things. People, I think, think going into a space that feels personalized when someone does something with an outfit that Feels like I haven't seen that before. I love how you mixed all those things together. That's so cool. That's sort of. That's what everyone's trying to do, I think. And I think that's what's exciting about design right now, is that it is really more about rather than. Trends are maybe just like, little sort of like, they're these ideas that can help people sort of navigate, but they're not sort of what you're looking to accomplish. I think that it's really about looking inward for your inspiration as opposed to outward. So I think that's kind of the moment we're in, and I think I hope it continues. Yeah.

D (53:21)

That was in 1947. 47, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was lovely. Anyways, it was a good time. It was a good time. You know, traditional was still kind of like, it's just getting kind of. We're leaning into the 50s, getting a little bit chic, you know, it's nice. No, it was in. It was in. God, what year was that? When. The 90s. So it was the 90s when I met, like, still very long time ago. But so I was. You know, my first job was working at Parrish Hadley and working with David Kleinberg, who's amazing, and Albert Hadley and Libby Cameron and, oh, my God, Michael Zabriskie and David McMahon in the design office. And I was lowest man on the totem pole. And I got my job there because I called and basically acted like. Like, I was like, hi, this is Tom Felicia from Syracuse University. So they. I think they. I. Can I speak with Albert Hadley? I think they thought I was giving Albert, like, award. Like an award, like, you know, lifetime achievement award or like an honorary degree or something. They're like, albert, we have Syracuse University on the phone. And then they get me on the phone, I'm like, hi, it's me, Tom Felicia, and I was wondering if I could come and interview for an internship. Anyways, he said yes, and I went in and had an amazing interview with him. I was a junior in design school, and it was amazing. And I ended up getting the internship, and then I worked there. They hired me out of college, so it was great. And what I loved about that experience is that I worked in not only the design office, but I also worked in the architecture office. So I was doing. Whenever they needed somebody, they so much going on that, like, they were like, we need someone to drop, like, elevations for, like, a dining room. I'm like, I'll do it. So I would run and do that in the design in the architecture office. Then I was, like, shopping for fabrics and, like, organizing things and going on installs and doing whatever. Doing what, really? Whatever they needed. But it was so awesome to have that experience. But what Albert Hadley once said to me, which, like, I loved, and it's so. It still. He was so amazing with furniture layouts. And he would always talk about how every room needs a surprise. Like, you can't be predictable. There has to be that element of. You didn't expect this.

D (55:39)

Just, like, the way a room is laid out. Just the way you lay a room out. Like, when you're designing, when you're doing furniture layouts, you know, it's just like, there's the sofa and then a pair of chairs, and then another pair of chairs in front of the fireplace and then an ottoman in front of the. And he's like, that's all beautiful. He's like. And it makes sense in the way that the room is laid out. He's like, but you have to have, like, just sort of that unusual piece of the furniture, that chair, that extra sort of, like, sculpture that. That little sort of whatever it is. Like another little table that like. Or just a pair of, like, quirky, weird chairs, like, pushed up against the fireplace, you know, the mantle. Like, just something that you're like, wait, that. I've not seen that before. That's fun. That's unusual. That's a little quirky. Just whatever it is. He's just like, you've got to always think about the pieces that sort of give it that sort of. You didn't you unexpected moment. That, like, surprise is what he would call it. And so I loved that. And it really serves me so well in all of my projects. It helps me with my showroom. It helps me in just. And it's really a concept. It doesn't even. It doesn't have to be a piece of furniture. It's really just a concept. It's like. It's like even. Even in a conversation or in a story or in a movie or in anything that unexpected thing or, like, you know, entertaining. Like, and everyone's having a wonderful time. And you're like, oh, my God, we have to have this after dinner. Like, sort of like cordial or drink that. Everyone's like, what is it? I've never had it before. It's just, like, a fun thing. And you just, like, go around and there's like, special glasses, and you just do this pour. And everyone's like, wow, this is so fun. Like, any. Those unexpected moments are really fabulous in design, in lifestyle as a whole. I would say in lifestyle as a whole. So I love that. I learned that from Albert, and he loved that. And it was that when you look at his work, you'll always see, like, a little bunny rabbit, like, next to, like, a door, or you'll see, like, just something quirky and weird that you're like, where the hell did you get that? And it's like he loves all those moments, you know? And I think that it gives personality. It's a surprise, something to talk about, think about, about just fun. So I love that when I worked for Robert Metzger, he was such a good businessman, and I love what I learned from him is that a lot of what you need in your designs to finish them, a lot of other designers need as well. So always have a showroom. That is a way for you to Finish your own projects. And also to help other designers do their. So he was such a good businessman and he was such a warm hearted person. I mean, I'll never forget I came in, I would go to work some days because I was like 11 when I worked there and it was crazy. I would like sometimes come in with like having gone home and showered and gone to work. Like never even slept. You know, it was like 25 or 7 or whatever. So it was so much fun. But one time I was like, I literally went home and I passed out. And by the time I got into the office, at least like noon, which I never do. Have you ever known me to ever not be where I had needed to be? I'm always like, I am where I need to be. But I was cuckoo bananas as a kid. And I came, I was like three hours late for work and I walk in and he looked at me, he goes, you could have at least called. We were worried sick. And meanwhile, I thought he was going to like fire me and be mad at me. He wasn't. He was mad that they were like worried about me. You know, it's like. Anyway, so he was that kind of guy, Alan Tanksley. I worked for him. He was amazing. He really kind of taught me how to like how to be organized in an office because no one ever really taught me that. And he really was like. I helped him sort of set up his whole office and how to be organized in your office, which is probably still not my greatest asset, but. Or my greatest attribute or thing that I bring to the table. But. But he was really good at that. And I loved the way he talked. He was very, you know, he's just, he's very. Alan's an amazing guy. And then Jeffrey Bill Huber, Gosh, I think I learned probably the most from Jeffrey Bill Huber. I just think he, you know, his aesthetic and my aesthetic are oddly very similar and usually very different. You know, I think, I think it's funny, but I really love. He and Albert Hadley were very similar also in a lot of ways. But Jeffrey was, I would say like the kind of cuckoo bananas version of Albert. So I think that's why I loved his aesthetic. He was so much fun visually and. And he does so many interesting layers, which I love. We have like a. I was almost like, if you were to take like maybe like someone like Bill Sofield and Jeffrey Bill Huber and put them into a blender, that's sort of who I am, I think. But like aesthetically so I. But so that's kind of how I landed there. But anyways, so, yeah, I love all the people that, that were amazing opportunities for me to work with and, like, get to know and become friends with and, and learn from. I mean, you know, so many incredible people that have brought so many. I mean, I remember going, like, meeting Sister Parrish. I mean, God, she was so, like, talk about an intimidating person.