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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to how to Decorate from Ballard Designs, a weekly podcast all about the trials and triumphs of decorating and redecorating your home. I'm Caroline. I'm on the marketing team.
- [00:11]
B
And I'm Taryn and I'm a product designer.
- [00:13]
C
I'm Liz. I head of the creative team.
- [00:15]
A
We're your hosts. Join the expert team at Ballard Designs for tips, tricks and tales from interior designers, stylists and other talents in the design world.
- [00:22]
B
Plus, we'll answer your decorating dilemmas at the end of each episode.
- [00:25]
C
We love answering your questions, so don't forget to email us@podcastallardesigns.net now, on with the show.
- [00:34]
A
Okay. Today's guest is a British designer known for breaking all the traditional rules. She's famous for her moody palettes, her bold take on faux botanicals. She has a booming interior design business, an e commerce site, five books, a YouTube channel chock full of video, and a wildly popular faux floral collection, which she recently brought to our Ballard Signs flagship store in Atlanta. Abigail Ahern, welcome to the show.
- [00:57]
D
What an amazing intro. Thank you so much. Pleasure to be here.
- [01:02]
A
Thrilled to have you. We've, we've all gone by the store to see your beautiful florals, but your background and your design business are so much more than that. So I want to start there because I know that you got your start in the interior design industry in the US before moving back to England. So tell us how you got into design and sort of what those early years looked like.
- [01:28]
D
The early years? Gosh, the early years, which were thousands of years ago, were quite fun because I started off working for Sir Terence Conran on the picture desk, finding all of the interior images that would go into interior design books that we would sell under the name of Conran Octopus. So I would commission photographers and go to studios in Europe and source all these pictures to go in the books. And then Graham, my husband, had an opportunity because at the time he works for the business now, but at the time he worked for Ford Motor Company, and they asked if he fancied relocating to Detroit. And I was in the middle of my publishing world, and we're like, shall we, shan't we? And we did. And it was. Although it was an incredibly scary move, it was the best thing I ever did because I then totally recalibrated what I wanted to do with my life. So I knew I loved interiors because I'd been finding all these pictures. And then I thought, hold on. Now I'm in a country that I don't know And I really need to figure out what I want to do for me from a work perspective. So I thought, I'm going to study as an interior designer, but before that, I think I want to intern at some interior design architect studios. And so to cut a really long story short, I went around various places and took all these books. And then there was a complete miscommunication with one company that I saw because they were under the impression that I designed all these rooms in the books, but they weren't actually saying that. They were just saying, so what was a square footage of this space? And what was that? And I just thought, you're so weird. I know you're American, but you're so weird asking me this question, because I just found the pictures. And then the next day they called me up and like, you know, we love all your. We love your folio, and it's amazing what you've done. And can you head up our interior design. Can you head up our interior design department? So I was like, well, I'm not an interior designer. I didn't say I wasn't interior designer. I was like. And then I thought, you know what? I'm just going to go, great, of course I will. So I went, of course I will, and went in the next day. And it was the worst first. I mean, I sort of laugh about it now because I don't know why I ever even said that, but it was terrifying because these guys were just so instrumental in reframing and shaping Detroit, because Detroit, at that time, this is like, 25 years ago, was going through this really big transition, and they were building all these amazing glass houses overlooking the Great Lakes. And so they had me flying to Chicago to go to the design center in LA to source rugs. And I was just so out of my depth. So I worked out that at night, I studied interior design at night, and I pretended to be an interior designer during the day. So when I had clients, I just wouldn't really say. I wouldn't commit to anything. So I didn't know anything. So I'd be like, just going to get back to you about that. I'm just going to get back to you about that. And then I would go home and, like, look at all my books and go, oh, my God. And then the next day I'd be like, it's a brilliant idea. Let's do this. And so it kind of threw me in. In. In. In retrospect, it kind of threw me in at the deep end. So I had to almost think Because I didn't know the rules. I'm kind of known in the industry as breaking the rules, but that's because I didn't know the rules. I had to think on my feet. And intuitively, which I think is what I just love about design, intuitively, just design from the heart. And, you know, my mother's an artist, my aunt is an interior designer. So I've cut. I come from quite a creative background, but I just had never studied it. So my approach to interior design in those very early formative years was completely back to front. How anybody who was trained would go about anything. But I kind of got away with it because we're in, in Detroit and I was British and my boss kept like touting Sir Terence Conran. It would get even more clients and I would just get even more stressed. And so I laugh about it now, but it was so stressful, I don't even know how I did it. And then a year in, I'm like, I've got to tell him. So I'm like, Doug, you know, I'm not an interior designer, I'm training. He's, oh, don't worry, darling, we all love you and you're doing really well. And anyway, so that was kind of a very boring story short.
- [05:22]
A
Oh, my gosh, that sounds like the pilot to a television show.
- [05:25]
D
They were a very small team. They were startup practice and they were so visionary and they really kind of changed my life. Because I think you have such a good attitude in America because there's this underlying belief that if you put your mind to something, even if you're not trained, you can totally do it. And it just, it just gave me so much confidence for when I came back to the uk. And I don't honestly think I would have set up my own business in the UK if I hadn't worked for Macintosh Porous. I just don't think I would have had the confidence. I don't think I would have done it. I think I would have always been working for somebody else. And they just, you know, like, I was with them for like nearly four years and they, what they achieved and what they did, they just gave me so much. I don't know. I just felt when I came back that I can do what they've done in a different capacity with just like believing in myself. So that's how it all began.
- [06:17]
A
So, okay, so you move back to England and then you start just as an interior design business. But then when does it start to expand and become.
- [06:25]
D
Yeah, I moved back to England. And then I just became a little bit frustrated with not being able to find products that my clients would want. I just found there was a real gap over here. It was either very vintage, which we do very well, and in Europe we do very well, or it was quite stark modern. And I just wanted warm and atmospheric and I. And more organic. And I was just seeing things in my head but not really finding them. So then I decided I would set up my own store. And I took a tiny, tiny little store on a tiny little side street in Islington. And it was. I mean, it was so tiny. And I was there for a year. And the first person that walked in was Alexander McQueen, the fashion designer, because he lived in the neighborhood and I was. And he became a client and it was really amazing. And then that gave me the confidence to move to slightly bigger space. And at this time time, I was sourcing from lots of trade shows. Like we have a big trade show in Paris and I was sourcing from trade shows. But then again, I was finding there was a gap because I would see things in my head that I couldn't find at trade shows. So then we started thinking, because my sister's now a partner in the business, we're just going to design things ourselves. And that's kind of where the journey of botanicals came, really, because she was a florist in the UK, working for some significant forest florists for about 15 years, doing incredible installations, celebrity weddings, being flown all over the world. And she'd bring back all these incredible pictures of installations that she'd created from fresh flowers. And I was like, I wish my house could look like this and the store could look like this. And we knew that with fresh flowers they die every week. There's no way that we could afford them. So I'm like, why don't we try and see if we can get this from Faux? But this time we weren't producing Faux. So we tried to find some vendors and we just didn't like anything out there because we just didn't feel it had enough similarity to fresh. So that's when we had the idea of running to China, finding factories. And we took tons of inspiration and so many factories, I guess we'd gone in, in China, everything is very perfect. And this was, I don't know, 15 odd years ago. And we went into these factories and we want things drooping and we want things brown and we want things to look dead. And there were, and I was trying to translate this and they were. There was just like Stony. Like, literally stony silence because everything was sprayed in one color and blue or bright purple, and I was going brown and dead and wilting and more dead and more dead. And then it was just literally really hard. So lots of factories wouldn't work with us. They're like, this is not going to sell. This is. You're literally. You've lost it. And then we found this family factory that had been producing very small batches of flowers. And I don't know, we just clicked. We still work with them to this day, and they're like, yep, you know, we'll try. Well, okay. We don't think it's going to work, but okay. And that's kind of where it began all of those years ago.
- [09:32]
A
Oh, my gosh. That's so funny. Well, you know, the thing that I have always not loved about faux flowers is the drape is not right.
- [09:42]
D
Yeah, right.
- [09:43]
A
Like, when you get a real tulip. Right. It, like, flops.
- [09:47]
D
Yeah.
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A
And that's what makes it so beautiful.
- [09:49]
D
Yeah.
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A
And so anytime you get a faux flower, it's too upright.
- [09:55]
D
It's just not real.
- [09:56]
A
So that's. And that is what is so magical about your florals is because they get the drape and the. Yeah, the droopiness. Better. But I love that you're talking about, like, oh, it has to be more dead. That's such a good point that I wouldn't have thought about, like, you need those browner spots. Okay, so talk us through the development of this and.
- [10:17]
D
Well, I think so for us, because Gemma called her gem, my sis, whose background is rooted in floristry, we were very keen with our collections to literally follow the rhythms of the season. So in the cooler months, there's berries and there's pines and, you know, we would trample through ancient forests. And every holiday we get, I'm dragging my husband into this meadow, that forest, and, like, taking snippets. It drives him literally. We're going away literally next weekend, and I've actually planned, like, all these hikes around all these. He doesn't know. Better be quiet. So I think because we're rooted in. Because I think because they're designed by a florist and not just, you know, everything to us is about the product. It's not the commerciality, which I know all the people in finance in my company would have a breakdown with me saying. But it's always about, does that look as beautiful as the real thing? And in order to do that, it cannot look perfect. It cannot be upright. It's got to flop. Like, we consider the. We're so detail orientated, from the weight of a branch to the veining on a leaf, to the fact that, you know, I want everything hand painted from pigments of the earth and not synthetic. Like the level of detail which most people would go, oh, my God, shut up. We are so obsessed with. And I think that's what kind of makes them different. And Also, from day one, we never, ever wanted to offer 20,000 SKUs. We just wanted this curated, beautiful collection where every single stem works with every single stem, so the customer and us included would never have to ask themselves, does this branch work with this garden flower work with this meadow? Because we've done all of that thinking for you and it totally does. So you don't need to be a florist to put them together. You can just gather them and plop them. And that was the whole. That was kind of really groundbreaking for me because Jem is a very clever florist and I'm not and I can't do what she does. But now I can just gather them in that very simple. You know, like you've been in the garden, you just pick them and then you've plopped them in a vase. That's our whole kind of DNA. I don't want perfect. I don't want overly styled. Like, we don't want anything domed. Like, you're not allowed to say the word doming in our company at all. Like, nobody's doming any kind of arrangement, so it's all kind of loose and wild and. And like you've literally just gathered it from outside. That's the kind of stuff that we're passionate about.
- [12:51]
B
The tones you just talked through too. The colors you're offering, it just it. It is truly the. You have to touch it. And then even then, you're still. Like, it might still be real, you know, like it used to be. It's so good.
- [13:07]
C
Every time I walk into the store, I see someone touching them and feeling them and wondering if what's going on with them because they are so dynamic.
- [13:15]
D
Yeah, well, that's really kind of you to say. And I think, you know, I'm. We're quite a good dynamic Gemini because she's coming at it from a floristry background and I'm coming at it from an interiors background. So I know that when you put something in a room that the way it arches or it's supersized or how beautiful the color is, it's going to change that room around. So we're Kind of approaching it. She's approaching it from a floristry angle. I'm approaching it from an interiors angle. So I think it's just making. I think the two worlds of us fusing has actually worked really kind of well together because we've both got quite a distinct point of view, but we're in harmony with each other, as it were.
- [13:58]
A
And I love the way that you style them on your website because they're. You know, a lot of times you'll kind of use one bunch of. Like, a lot of one bunch.
- [14:08]
D
Yeah.
- [14:09]
A
But they're still sparse in a way that it really does feel organic. Not, you know, too many.
- [14:16]
D
Yeah, There's.
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A
There's space in between, and that space lets you see the individual petals and the branches and. And it's really. It's.
- [14:25]
D
I think when you do that, then you can almost see the movement of them. Right. So you can see the movement. You can see the height, you know, in the. Like, we have a lot of. I mean, I can't even go on to next season because I'm working so many seasons ahead, but every season we're like, how can we elevate? How can we do more of this and this and this? And so I think, look, for me, the biggest compliment is when you can't quite tell if they're real or if they're not real. So you can mix them with real. Like, lots of our customers in London mix them with real, and you totally can, and you can't really tell. And that all comes down to, you know, the fact that it's not one single color. It's hand painted. So you get these nuances of color so it doesn't look too bright or too plasticky or too out of context. If you want to mix it with real or you want to mix it with faux dried, you can totally do that. You don't have to, but you totally can.
- [15:15]
A
Yeah.
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C
I wouldn't even think to mix faux with real because I think. Because so much of what we get is. Is hyper real.
- [15:26]
D
Yeah. I think it's like, I know that Gem's done it a lot when she's done various installations and particularly for, like, weddings and special events. So if you want something, let's say, on dining table that's got a scent in, like, hyants, you might add hyacinth that smell really, really beautiful. And then you might add some of our lovely foliages around them. So then that really kind of brings it alive without then having to go and buy a whole load of foliages. So the thing about faux is, like, for me, it's really hard because obviously we're working, I'm seeing everything. And every time we bring in a new collection, everything has to be put somewhere and then more stems come in. But the thing is that you can have them forever, and I just change them with the seasons. We've got some really beautiful green stems that are here all year, literally here all year round. And then I might add some meadow in the summer and some, like, ready. Beautiful plummy colors in the winter. So there's so many ways that you can make them work in your space.
- [16:23]
A
Okay, you on your Instagram are. You make the best videos. I was so entertained and delighted by them. Anyway, you showed a lot of. A lot of them in your house, and you can see your stems all over. So what are some of your favorite ways and containers and maybe rooms in the house that you feel like get the most benefit from the stems?
- [16:48]
D
Well, that's a good question. For me. I think that when you take some stems and you put them in areas, particularly with faux, because remember, they're not dying, you put them in areas that you wouldn't normally do that. That your house suddenly feels incredibly luxurious. Like, I've got this, like, really beautiful bouquet on the kitchen island. Now, if that was fresh, they would be dying every week, and I could never do it. And it's huge. I mean, it's huge. Or on your entryway in the console, like, you wouldn't. Like when you come into the hallway or the entryway, you wouldn't normally have some really beautiful stems there or on a cupboard in the corner of a room. So I'm constantly peppering them all throughout the room in spaces that I wouldn't normally, because if I had to do it with fresh, I simply couldn't afford it. So as well as the standard coffee table and fireplaces, all those areas. The bathroom a lot. I mean, the bathroom. I use lots of trailing stems all the time. So I'm elevating rooms and lots of people. I used to run design classes here, and people used to fly in from all over the world, and they're like, wow, where did you get those flowers from? Which market did you get, like. So I think because the house feels so much more elevated and grander because I'm. I've got the ability, with foes, because they don't die, to pepper them into spaces I would never, ever be able to afford otherwise. So that's what I do. And when it comes to vases, I'm a Real advocate of not having, ideally too many glass vases, because I don't want to see the stem. So when you use a ceramic vase or a concrete vase, you're. And. And. And you can't see the stem, your eye is immediately going to that flower head or the branch. And I think that when you see through the glass, it's slightly diluting the vavoom and the impression of something really beautiful. So I'm all about kind of hiding the stems. Unless, of course, it's a really beautiful arching branch and then, of course, you're going to see the stem. But, you know, hydrangeas and roses and peonies and dahlias. I don't want to see the stem. I just want them to topple over the vase because that elevates them even further.
- [18:53]
A
Yeah. There's also something really nice about having weight at the bottom.
- [18:58]
D
Yeah.
- [18:59]
A
And then the. The lightness of the flower at the top. That doesn't work as well with glass.
- [19:03]
D
Yeah, I don't think it does either. It just kind of also dilutes it a bit. Right. So you. And also, when you think about so much work goes into creating those flower heads, they should be your star in interior design. We always want a focal point. A focal point is something that, you know, that the eye immediately goes to, and flowers do just that. If you're then the stem through the glass, you're just kind of diluting how spectacular it could be. So the minute that you take that away, it's quite an amazing impact.
- [19:32]
A
Okay, what about taking care of the stems? Because I think we can all relate to going over to someone's house where they have a faux plant. And even real actually sometimes gets dusty. And then I always think, like, well, where do I put these? How do I store them in the off season?
- [19:49]
D
Yeah, that's a good question. I get asked about that a lot. I mean, I'm quite brutal with them. I just whack them, shake them out the door, get a hoover on them. I'm actually like, I'm not very respectful to the foes. I'm like, so a dust of a hoover is great. Then I will literally, I have all these cotton bags. Just wrap them in a cotton bag and then they go away, and then they come out again the following season. Because they are quite tough. You don't have to be super delicate. You really don't have to be scared of them. Like, they're made for you to manipulate them so you can pull them and push them and arch them. That's the whole thing, you don't want them like this. And so if you're going to get the Hoover on them or you're just going to, you know, whack them outdoors, it's completely, literally, completely fine. They're not precious.
- [20:38]
A
Shake off the dust.
- [20:39]
D
And that's. Yeah, they're so. They are so not meant to be. And also, this is like, the whole DNA of my interiors. I don't want precious. I don't want it to feel uptight and formal, like, you can't touch it. Like, touch it, shake it, hoover it, whack it. Like, I'm just quite, quite relaxed about that whole thing.
- [20:56]
A
Let's get into your. Your design sensibility, because you certainly have a very organic. I mean, obviously with the flowers, too, but even just the. The shapes and the colors you're using, there's such an organic quality to your design. And I'd love for you to talk us through maybe how that developed, where it came from, and. And sort of how you approach it with your clients.
- [21:20]
D
I think, like, I now think that it's over time. Like, I kind of developed it because when I was starting out in interior design, training to be one, I didn't really know my style. I was all over the place. I didn't have a specific style. And it's hard because I'm, you know, immersed in my world, and I don't really necessarily. I can't necessarily pinpoint my style other than saying it's very eclectic. It fuses lots of different eras, but everything is kind of quite tonal. So I don't want to decorate with lots of different colors because for me, I want my space to feel incredibly cocooning and grounding and a bit like a sanctuary. And I can't do that unless I'm really using Mother Nature as a huge inspiration. So lots of really beautiful tactile textures. You'll find really beautiful natural colors. I really love it. Like, you can see behind me. I really love an inky palette. And then I'll decorate with lighter colors. And so there's this real beautiful kind of contrast going on. But I feel it really depends on how you want your space to feel. For me, the brief to myself on every single room is, do I feel that I've been wrapped in a big hug the moment I walk through the door? Like, I. I do. I feel that. And if I don't, then I've just got to maybe add a bit more pattern or maybe add a bit more texture. And when I was interior designing, and I haven't, I Stopped that quite a number of years ago because I. The business was just getting too crazy. When I was interior designing, I was really fortunate that our house was photographed and went around the world, which is a whole other story. So I used to. I mean, I've. We live in a 1844 story townhouse in East London and we bought it and I painted everything white because at that time I just moved back from America and I didn't really have a style and I had paint and El Deco came and shot my house when it was white. And that was amazing for the business. And then a couple of years later, this was in the days when I was literally the only person in the store on my own. Like, I met like, for. I staffed it for like, like three years, I think. And then one day this really handsome man walked in my husband's existence. This really handsome man walked in and he was Italian and he's like, I saw your house in El Deco and I loved it and has it changed at all? And I happen to have, because I'm so ancient, a Polaroid in my bag of an alcove that I painted this alcove that I painted behind me in a dark color. So I was doing a bit of flirty, went, oh, yes, look, this is it. It's all like this now. It was literally just the alcove. And I didn't know at the time, but he was a photographer and he worked for one of the coolest magazines in the world, which is Italian, El Duco. And he's like, oh, so your whole house is now dark? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, it's amazing. And it wasn't. It was an alcove. And he's like, oh, great. Because I'm in London in three weeks time and I'm going to come and shoot it if you'd let me. And I was like, okay. And the whole house was white, four stories. And so I came home that night to my husband with a bottle of wine. I'm like, honey, we've literally got three weeks to paint this house dark because this photography team is coming from the cordless magaz in the world and they're going to shoot the house and we've got to have this dark house because I've lied and said it's dark. And so, yeah, he literally. Graham was working in the city at the time he'd left Ford. He was so cross with me because he was working in the day, we were painting at night. We're getting two hours of sleep. The team flew over from Italy. It then went on the COVID of this magazine and around the world, and that really propelled the business. So although it killed him at the time, it really changed how we were perceived. And because everything was dark and nothing really was in those days, it just kind of went mad. And I started getting all these incredible clients. And anyway, it's a long story, but, yeah, I seem to. It sounds awful, but I seem to have. Most of my career is lying. I lied to the interior designers. I'm lying that my house is dark and it's white. Just lying my way around the world. But that's how it happened. So suddenly I had to go very dark. And I would have gotten to it eventually, but I don't think I would have ever done it in three weeks. And because I had no time, I had to paint everything in the same color. So the journalist is like, well, why have you painted everything in the same color? And I didn't want to say, well, because three weeks ago, it was actually a white. So I said, well, harmony. It's all about harmony. So, like, this went in the magazine. It's all about harmony. And every room should be the same. Oh, my God. And consequently, every room is now not the same color. But I had literally no time, and I had to think on my feet. So
- [26:04]
A
funny. So paint good. Taking your house from white to black, I mean.
- [26:08]
D
Yeah.
- [26:09]
A
Or dark. How did that change the way you lived in the house? And how did that change the way you were decorating?
- [26:13]
D
Oh, my God.
- [26:14]
A
For clients, I mean, I would think that would change everything.
- [26:16]
D
It changed everything. And I'd experimented it in this tiny little alcove. And what it did is. What I didn't realize is when I lived in my white house was. Although it was a lovely house, I just didn't feel that it wanted. I just didn't feel like I wanted to stay in it. In the evening, we're always, like, going out to dinner, and now you have to kind of pull me out of here to go anywhere. Because what the darker colors have done, particularly when you play around with lighting, is there. It's almost like a Vermeer painting. There's these little pools of light. It feels incredibly cozy and cocooning. And I just don't get that vibe with really bright colors or necessarily white colors. So for me, it feels incredibly cozy and comforting. And I think there's this kind of misconception that if you paint a room in a dark color, it's immediately going to make it look smaller. And it actually makes it look Bigger, because when the corners blur out and you get this shadow, you can't really tell where the room ends. Whereas if you paint things in a very kind of bright white, you can. And also, we live in Northern Europe, so we have a very blue daylight. And blue daylight with white light, it's quite. It's quite harsh and it's quite jarring. Whereas if you go a bit creamier or you use colors that are a bit earthier, you. It just changes how you feel in a space. And color is one of the most transformative things that you can do to any room in the house, no matter whether you like white or dark.
- [27:52]
A
Did you find that you had to change your lighting when you went dark?
- [27:56]
D
I had to change everything in the house. Like, we were getting rid of furniture going on Etsy, because this magazine was coming. The thing. Everything went. Everything, everything, everything. I think the biggest thing was before I changed the color, everything was a bit B and B Italia and quite sharp lines. And then I changed the color, and I wanted everything to feel enveloping. So I started introducing, like, toffee colored burnt caramel cashmere sofas and teddy upholstery armchairs and shaggy cushions. And I just wanted to constantly play and play and play upon this cosy feeling, because now I come here and I have. I travel a lot, but as soon as I'm home, I never really want to leave. I mean, it's just my happiest place to be. And color's done that.
- [28:49]
A
So you kind of have to do. You're doing the opposite in each situation. Right. Like, you have the. The white.
- [28:56]
B
Sorry.
- [28:56]
D
Yeah.
- [28:56]
A
In the. In the dark, it's the darkness. So you had to add the softness where. When there was white, you had to add that sharpness. So, yeah, you've sort of totally.
- [29:05]
D
And you could. And of course, you can do it the other way. Let's say you have a lot of paler walls. You can absolutely have. Have. And add dark elements to add depth. It does the same thing. It's that contrast between the two colorways, the darker and the brighter, that causes this, really. And it sounds really weird, but in interiors, you always want to have a bit of friction and tension going on, and no one will ever come into your space and go, my God, the friction in this room is amazing. I mean, no one ever will because they won't know what you've done. But you need to that friction to add that depth and to add that kind of magical sprinkling of. You know, it's almost like you can't work out quite what you've done. But the rooms feel really amazing. And that's all to do with this sort of underlying friction and tension going on.
- [29:58]
A
Do you ever use black? Black, or do you use, like, dark brown? Dark brown.
- [30:02]
D
I use brown. I use black with brown in it. So it's always got of all of my colors that I use at my house and in projects have all got earthy, warm undertones. So they're generally on the warmer side of the color wheel because that gives me my co cosy cocooning and grounding vibe.
- [30:22]
A
So it's never a perfect black.
- [30:24]
D
It's never a perfect black because that can also be a little bit harsh. So it's always. And also, you see, this is why. Because I started off with paint way before botanicals. I think this is why I needed the flowers to feel hand painted. Because all the walls made. The paint is made from pigments of the earth, so it's not a flat color. So as the light changes east to west, the colors change. So you're con. It's this nuance of color upon color, layers and layers of color. As opposed to a flat synthetic, this is the color. So it doesn't matter what time of day it is in this room. This color will continually change as the light moves around the house. And that's what you get when you use pigments that are literally made from the earth.
- [31:05]
A
Did you ever have pushback from early clients, like when you were just starting to go dark, like, always?
- [31:10]
D
Always.
- [31:11]
A
How did you, like, make your proof of concept? How did you.
- [31:14]
D
Well, I mean, this sounds very rude, but the great thing about having your own business is that you can just constantly say, well, I'm out of here, bye. Which is what I would do quite a lot. Sorry if I'm not. I mean. No, I'm joking. A lot of it. You know, funnily enough, it was always the guys that had the biggest problem. The women, I don't know, seem to want to. And obviously, you know, I've got a certain style, so people are coming to me because they want that style. But then when you're literally about to do it, there's like, oh, my God, it's not going to work. It's so I constantly have to ferry people through the house so they could just kind of see the environment. And the biggest thing is about having confidence. So I would say, look, let's just start with the smallest room in your house. The smallest room in your house. And if you really hate it, I'll paint it back I mean, I was never going to paint it back. I just lie again and say I'd paint it back. So they'd be like, okay, the smallest room in the house. And of course, I knew it would work. I knew it. Like, I've done this for years. I knew it, and it did work. And then confidence. Some people totally embraced it. Other people were more scared. But also, the whole thing about interior design is you never want to push your aesthetic on someone if they don't like it. Because the whole pleasure about being an interior designer is that feedback you get where people. People don't. Before you're on board, they can't even imagine what you could do with your kind of, you know, magical hands. So I always, like, I would never want someone not to love my aesthetic. So I think it's. A lot of it is to do with confidence. And I think when you break the rules, whether that's in floristry or whether it. That's interiors, most people's reaction is to push back and go, oh, I don't think so. I don't think that's going to work. And so it's kind of gently, gently, slowly, slowly. And then towards the end, I'm like, I'm out of here. Yeah, take me, leave me. So I was lucky that most people kind of liked my vibe.
- [33:00]
B
Well, I wanted to go back to the actual stems, if you don't mind, only because, again, we've been working with them and really enjoying them in the homes. So what would you say? What would you recommend for people who are purchasing, again, to do, you know, these arrangements at home? How many would like kind of stems would you say, to make it a nice full. And then kind of. What height kind of vase would you put it in?
- [33:28]
D
That's a really good question, I think. I mean, this is so. In a way, I want to tell you the rules, but I always. I also kind of want to say there's no rules. So if I was having my floristry hat on, I would say, in a vase, you should always work with odd numbers. The same principles go with interior design, because when you put three stems in a vase or five stems in a vase or seven stems in a vase, the arrangement makes your eye work a little bit harder in order to transition around that arrangement. And when your eye works harder, it automatically feels more intriguing. So ideally, we want odd numbers because it's so easy with floristry to feel intimidated. I would literally start with going for literally the same flower. So that could be five hydrangeas. In a vault vase. Now, in my world, and it's very subjective, but in the kind of AA world, when you're using anything like a garden flower, you don't really want to see the stem in the vase. So it's all about the hair. Anything kind of rounded and beautifully shaped, it's all about. You're just seeing the heads toppling over the vase. When anything is a bit larger, like a branch or a meadow flower, it's all about the stem. So you kind of have to ask yourself, number one, what stem am I going for? Am I going more garden? Am I going more meadow? Am I going more branchy? And if you're going really branchy, which look amazing on consoles and in bathrooms, you might only want one branch in a bottle vase, or you might want three. But the rule of thumb is if you go with odd numbers, it will feel a lot more elevated than if you go with even numbers. And like I said, with our stems, we've kind of of done all the work for you, so you don't have to ask yourself, will this stem go with this stem? Because we've done that. The color palette works. There's all of this variety of textures when you're mixing bunches, and if you're not floristry trained, don't worry, because nor am I. You want to mix textures like you would in interior design. Right. You wouldn't have everything in a room that was super smooth. So you would mix, like a hydrangea with a rose that's got a really beautiful silky petal. We've started to introduce real touch into our collection. So the stems feel incredibly waxy. And then you might put a branch there that doesn't feel waxy. So you constantly want to think about contrast. The palette we've totally nailed for you, you never have to ask yourself about that. But you can gather them, you can put them loosely, you can play around with heights. They arch. You never really have to get scared, because I think once you start playing around with foes, you'll realize how easy it is to create something that's really phenomenal when you mix really beautifully curated stems, which is what we've done. But also, I'm a big fan of taking one stem and literally repeating it, repeating it, repeating it in a vase. So the big thing is, ask yourself, do you want something really overarching, in which case it's all about the stems. You go more bottle vase or something more rounded, you would go in a more rounded vase, ideally ceramic or maybe clay or, you know, Concrete. So you're not necessarily seeing the stem stems.
- [36:49]
C
One of the things that I keep finding with fos is that, you know, everything, all the stems are the same length. And so how do you get. How should we be using our foes to kind of alter the length of them?
- [37:07]
D
Easy. So, first of all, when you have all of our foes, obviously, depending on what stem you're buying, are going to come in different lengths. The branches are going to be the same height, for example, as a hydrangea. But you can bend them. I never, ever, ever cut them. Because if you cut them, then you can cut them. But I really wouldn't. And particularly if you can't see if your vase isn't glass, you won't see what you've done. Another thing I use all the time if I want to raise the height of the stems in a vase is I'll use tissue paper or newspaper. Put that in the bottom, gives you a little bit of height, and then you put the stems on top of that to add to your height. But the big thing is that you can manipulate and play with the stems by literally, you know, not cutting them. You can cut them. But I think it's a shame because I've got lots of branches in my earlier days that I cut and then I'm like, oh, but that height is so amazing. And then in the winter, I want something really arching on my console. So I would bend them, I wouldn't necessarily cut them. And if you're not seeing through the vase, no one will ever, ever know, though.
- [38:11]
A
No.
- [38:11]
C
That's brilliant. So bending them and then kind of binding them.
- [38:14]
D
Yeah. I don't even bind. Honestly, I'm so laid back about it, I don't even bind them. Because, remember, if you're putting them, you know, most of our vessels, yours too, don't have huge, great gaping holes in them. So you're only ever going to put like five or seven. They all fit quite snugly, so you don't even need to kind of take them up. I mean, you can if you're super, super professional. But I'm so not professional. I just shove them in there. There, Bend them. Done. And the tissue paper or the newspaper will give you height. If you want to just have things feeling a little bit higher and your vase is too. You know, you just need to add that little bit of height. But, yeah, totally tweak them. And you want them to. You don't want them to sit up like this. You want them to constantly lilt and arch over the More that you can bend them and lilt them like you would see in Mother Nature. Really? Mother Nature is our guide that that's how you want them to feel in a vase. They should never just be like this. They should always be nothing.
- [39:12]
A
Okay, so we talked about your color palette, how that's sort of breaking the rules, especially when you started doing it, because, you know, I feel like now it's maybe a little bit more common. We're seeing it more. Are there other rules that you think it pays to break? I remember there was a video you recently posted on Instagram where you were talking about chairs placing them at an angle instead of trade on.
- [39:37]
D
Yeah, I mean, there's lots of rules I want to break from this. The biggest. The biggest rule I want to break is ideally, actually, there's quite a few. So I have a bit of a problem with focal points. When I studied interior design, you learn as an interior designer, you should always have one focal point in a room. And I get that. And focal point, your eye goes to it. La, la, la. The only trouble with having one focal point in a room is once your eye has darted to that focal point. So that could be a big mirror or a painting or a plant or a flower. Whatever it is, you're then done. And then your eye is like, I want three in a room. So I want you to come into any one of my rooms, and your eye goes straight to the focal point. And then you turn. But hold on, there's another focal point over here. Oh, but hold on, there's another focal point over there. So you suddenly, suddenly feel very mesmerized, and you don't know whether to go here with your eye or here with your eye or here with your eye. So the space feels incredibly dynamic and intriguing. Whereas if you've just got one, you've seen it, it's beautiful and it's done. Whereas if you have. If you pepper three in, then it just feels so much more intriguing. So that's really key to me. The next thing is texture. I never want. Want anyone to tell me you should only have four textures in a room. Like, I want to overdose on texture. I feel that unlike pattern, where you have to be a little bit restrictive with texture. I mean, you can see, like, sitting behind me, like, it's crazy with texture. You can just layer and layer and layer and layer, and it will always just constantly build. And the other thing I really hate is people get a little bit, bit cross with me when I say ideally in a room and in a relatively Small room, you should have between eight and 10 light sources. And they're like eight to 10 light sources. That's just too many. But when you introduce little pockets of glow, it's really amazing. And when people are coming to my design classes, my house on the lower ground, every room floats into every room. So one person said, will you please count how many lights you have down here? Because I really think that you'll be, like, three hours before you go to bed. So I counted, and I had, like, 25. But they're little pockets of glow. And I'm like, no, I don't turn them off before. It doesn't take me five hours to go to bed. They're all controlled by my phone. But I think sometimes we're like, okay, let's have a big pendant, and let's have a few lights around the side. And that doesn't feel very atmospheric to me. So lots of little pockets of glow, I think, make all the difference in the world. That, and the focal points are really key. And then not lining up furniture or particularly sofas against walls. I don't have a problem with a sofa butting a wall, but I always want a shelf behind it or a little console behind it. So it's not just the sofa going straight up against the wall. You can do a little bit of storytelling behind it with, like, a little table or a vase of flowers or something that just. I guess the word I'm obsessed with is layering. Because for me, the more layers that you add to a space, the cooler the space. And there is a fine line between a space feeling incredibly chaotic and not relaxing and a space feeling curated and relaxing. And that trick is the same as in the floristry and our botanical world is I really restrict the number of colors that I'm playing with in my space. So everything feels incredibly harmonious. So it's not jarring, exactly. Like, you know, the color palette on all the botanicals, it's not jarring. Everything works. Works with everything else. And then you can get away with adding a few more things into a room that you would traditionally do. Oh, I have another pet peeve. The ceilings. This is my biggest pet peeve. I can't believe I forgot this. Ceilings and woodwork. In my world, always, no matter what, the color of your walls should be painted the same color as your walls. Because I don't understand. Like, I really have to investigate who said that the ceiling should always be white and the wall should be a different color? Because for me, when your ceiling is painted, the Same color as your wa. Walls. Your walls automatically elongate because you can't see where the walls stop and the ceiling begins. They feel so much grander than they really are. Whereas when you paint the ceiling white, and if you have a darker color or a warmer color, it doesn't matter, but you're literally making those walls feel stumpier. And who comes into a room and goes, wow, this white ceiling is amazing. Let me just sit and look at this for a few. Like, who's doing that? No one. Like, why are the ceilings always white? I don't understand. Done. I don't.
- [44:23]
A
That's such a great question. And I've always wondered that about molding.
- [44:26]
D
Yeah.
- [44:26]
A
You know, people always kind of. The standard is, I know a white, you know, baseboard and a white crown or baseboards.
- [44:34]
D
Who's coming in to go, oh, hold the conversation. I've just got to look at this baseboard because the white on this baseboard turns. Nobody needs to look at your baseboard. You should have so many other beautiful things in your room. Nobody needs to look at a baseboard painted out in white. White is my point of view.
- [44:51]
A
It's so funny. Well, you know, we get the question all the time is whether color drenching is a, you know, a trend.
- [44:57]
D
No, because that's what they did with the Italians 25 million years ago. Everything went the same color. Ceilings, woodwork, skirting. So, no, it's not a trend. It's been going on for years.
- [45:09]
A
Okay, there, there, everyone, everyone, there's your definitive answer. It's not a trend.
- [45:14]
D
It's not a trend.
- [45:15]
A
We'll be here forever.
- [45:16]
D
It was, well, always.
- [45:17]
A
You talked about lighting. You have 25 sources. I mean, that's. That's a lot. But are there things in there that you mentioned the pendant and the lamps, but what are the things that are the. That are getting you to 20? Because I know you're not having 20 lamps. Right?
- [45:29]
D
No, I mean, I.
- [45:30]
A
Things that people haven't considered.
- [45:32]
D
Well, candlelight, always. Candlelight is really integral because you've got that kind of kinetic, flickering, flattering glow. And particularly if you use beeswax candles because they're yellow as opposed to white candles. So you're. You're taking it one step further, and you've got that warmth, which is just so, so, so beautiful. I use a lot of portable lamps, like little USBs or battery operated lamps that you can just plop all over the space. And I think the biggest thing about turning it around a space with lighting is having lights of different heights. So we don't want all of our table lamps to be exactly the same height. And if they happen to be, the easiest trick is put them on a stack of books. So just vary that height because then the light will fall all very differently in your space than just all being at this one height. And that makes all the difference. So when I'm ever thinking of adding lighting to a room or choosing lighting, I want to make sure that, yes, there's harmony between maybe the materiality of the lights, but some lights are going to be diddy and some lights are going to be medium and some lights are going to be a lot taller. So therefore my light is not flat in a room, it's just these little pockets of really beautiful glow. But yes, candlelight is really, for me, integral, particularly in the cooler months, obviously, when we have less light.
- [46:48]
A
Do you have like a little charging station for your mini lamps? Because that is something. I have a couple, but they're always, like, always forget to charge them.
- [46:56]
D
I know, it's really. I know my.
- [46:59]
A
I must have a system.
- [47:00]
D
Well, I'm. It drives my husband mad. But I'm so obsessed with lighting. Like, if a certain light is not on in a room, it makes me so cross. And he just doesn't care about lighting. Lighting. He would work in the dark, he just wouldn't turn one light on. So if I've been away and I come back and he's just working in the corner with nothing on. Whereas I have lights on at certain times of the day because I'm so obsessed with it. But, yeah, no, I charge my lamp. Any portables I charge during the day when I'm not. Kind of. Because for me, when I relax, that's in my lower ground floor, which kind of overlooks my garden, and that's when I'm going to use all these different light sources. Like, I'm not lighting candles in my office or in the studio or taking portables everywhere. So I charge them in the day and then in the evening when I come down, I just pop them. I put some of the portables outside. I've had all the gardens lit, I put candles on. So it's kind of this whole little. It's kind of like my decompression thing, really.
- [47:59]
A
Oh, I love that. So you come home and you sort of like light the house and get it all glowy and then you commence your evening.
- [48:05]
D
Yeah, and then I'll cook something and then. That's lovely.
- [48:07]
A
Yeah.
- [48:08]
D
Because the kitchen kind of looks out over the garden and so. So that's all lit up and then. Yeah, so it just fit. Yeah. I'm very obsessed with lighting.
- [48:17]
B
I feel like we all are on this. You've got a good group of people here. We're very, very particular. I walked out of a store the other day because the lighting was so terrible. I literally was like, everything looks dingy. I. I don't care if the product's good, I'm out of here.
- [48:31]
D
I could. Yeah, I know. I think, I think because we're all in the homeware industry, we just know how transformative it is.
- [48:39]
A
Is.
- [48:39]
D
It's so transformative. And it's one of the kind of the least expensive things that you can do to turn a room around. I mean, I won't even go to restaurants. I'll have to go, what's the lighting? What's the color? Like, I'm not an easy person to kind of be with. Like, is the. And it don't even get me on low energy. I'm like, no, I don't want to eat in a hospital. Like, I feel like I'm eating in a hospital. So I'm terrible to go out to supper with because I'm like, well, I need to just check out what the color is, what the lighting is. Never mind the menu.
- [49:09]
B
Well, you could have a Michelin star restaurant with like a terrible lighting. And it's true, the food tastes worse.
- [49:15]
D
Yeah, it does.
- [49:16]
A
The whole. And it looks worse. And I feel like I look bad.
- [49:20]
D
So I'm like, yeah, I know.
- [49:23]
A
I feel gross.
- [49:23]
D
And yeah, I know.
- [49:24]
C
I'm just imagining you going to a restaurant and pulling the little LED light out of your purse and putting it on the table. I should, I'm fixing it.
- [49:32]
D
I should actually walk around with like a suitcase and like, no problem. Don't worry, I'll fix it.
- [49:40]
A
Like Mary Poppins. Love it.
- [49:41]
D
Yeah. Around here, like, because I have a dog and we walk out when it is in the winter and then someone, like, might just have one pendant on in their room and nothing else. And you're like, shall I knock on the door? Shall I say. I mean, you just want to knock on the door and go, you need help? I think, you know, some people are bothered by lighting and some people aren't. But when you see how, how much it transforms a room, it like when you just. And how it makes you feel right. Because it, like when you get the lighting right. And for me, it's that, you know, when you go to the most, it doesn't even have to be an expensive Hotel, but a really beautiful hotel or a really lovely bar and the lighting is so beautiful, you just want to stay there for ages. And hotels and hospitality are really great about really thinking about lighting because they make you want. It makes you want to stay longer, drink more, eat more, you know. So I just think need to take our guidance from the hospitality industry who a lot are doing really great things with lighting.
- [50:43]
B
Okay, so do you have any other. We've talked a lot about lighting and moods and I think the branch is another wonderful way to move. Do you have anything else you would add, you know, that really makes that whole coming home comfortable thing you talked. Oh, you talk texture.
- [51:00]
D
Scent is important and quite often neglected. I think it's like under, like it's just taking rooms to a slight, like just elevating them to a slight, slightly different level. So for me, you know, I'm very much about. I don't want an overpowering scent in a room. I just want this kind of undertone scent. And you know, scent is incredibly personal. Whether you like floral scents or pretty scents or slightly more woodsy scents, it doesn't really, really matter. But I think that when you have a room that feels beautifully scented, it's just that extra layer, isn't it? And for me, you know, know, I'm sure anyone in who loves their home, you just want to create the most magical space on earth that you don't want to leave. And then when you use scent, it just kind of just layers that top note and feels really amazing.
- [51:52]
B
Do you?
- [51:53]
D
Yeah.
- [51:53]
C
What sense are you loving?
- [51:55]
D
Well, there is this fl. My God. There's this pharmacy in Italy. It's the only. It's the oldest pharmacy in the world. World. It started in 1200 and something and it's called Santa Maria Novella. And they have stores all over the world. And they have this pot pour a which is. I'm so obsessed with it. They sell it in a little bag and it's all organic herbs and spices collected in the Florentine hills. And I decant it because you get it in a bag and it's way too strong to you. You need the tiniest bit. And I put it in a tea light holder and then I put these tea light holders all over the house and it smells like this Italian forest. And it's so magical. And their pharmacies are magical. I think there's one in New York. There's a lot in London. They're all over Italy and they're called Santa Maria Novella. And they have the most intoxicating Smell. It's only one scent, but when I used to run these design classes is people were like, what's that smell? And the postman would be like, what's that smell? What's that smell? And I'm like, oh, that's Santa Maria Nola. He's obsessed with it. He literally buys it for everyone for Christmas. My postman. I buy it for everyone for Christmas. It's the best gift ever because you only need the tiniest little amount. And then it's in the loo, it's in the hallway, it's in all the transitional areas. And it's this underlying incredible, woodsy, aromatic, foresty scent. And it lasts forever.
- [53:27]
B
And it goes back to your harmony thing.
- [53:28]
C
Oh, fantastic.
- [53:29]
B
The harmony.
- [53:30]
D
And it goes back to my harmony thing.
- [53:32]
B
Yeah, you're home.
- [53:33]
D
And it's not overpowering. It's just. It's so. Yeah. And you don't need to always. I mean, obviously you can light a candle or incense, but it's just got this underlying layer. It's so beautiful.
- [53:43]
B
I love that. I haven't heard anyone talk about using. I know. Potpourri and so long that I'm like,
- [53:50]
D
well, I mean, you see, the thing that really interests me about potpourri is bit like faux flowers. Such a bad rap. When you say fake flowers or artificial flowers, people be like, oh, God, the plastic, they're horrible. Or you say potpourri and people go, oh, my God, that was so 80s. But they have. I mean, they haven't even reinvented it because it's been going on since 1200 and something. But they are just at the top of their game. They are. It's. Honestly, if you ever. If you ever see one of their pharmacies, you have to go in because they're always tiny little spaces, but they are so beautiful. Beautiful.
- [54:23]
B
I have never. This is. That's just a wonderful, wonderful, like, thing to tell people.
- [54:29]
D
Yeah. You'll love it so much.
- [54:31]
B
Your little treat there. I did have a question, though. What is your next. So you've changed faux florals again. You've made them cool and hip again. I feel like you are. You're helping this potpourri wrap. So what's your next uncool thing?
- [54:45]
D
I think you're gonna make. That is so weird. I haven't really thought about that. I think. Well, I think for us now, you know, you know, the. The botanicals and having them with you guys and having them in America is like, we're so excited about it. We just want to constantly innovate and push. So we're now moving on to plants. We're in the very early stages, and I think that's going to be our. Our next thing. Because houseplants can sometimes be a bit nice enough, like you just can't find. I know it's. It's actually proving quite hard because I thought plants would be quite easy, and we're doing quite a lot of research on it. And it's. They're not. Because when I think with our stems, like, we want really unusual varieties, and I want unusual varieties of plants, but I don't always want them to feel quite so tropical. If I'm go, I don't want a cactus. You know, people do that really like plants, and I don't mind. Mind if they're more draping. But if I'm doing a cactus, then I need to bring all my kind of. I need it painted and I need it to droop and all of this site. So I think we're going to go down, branch a lot more branches because I just think. I think a lot of people that sell stems now which are. Which are all fine, but they're all of a certain ilk, and I just want to go. So we're going to the Chelsea Flower Show. We're seeking out really unusual varieties is. And we're putting those into production. And I'm learning all the time. So I just. Now we're onto this kind of whole mantra of being really obsessed with it, and it's doing really well. I kind of feel that I want to stay in my botanical lane. I think if I took on another thing, I. I don't even know what I'd take on. I don't even know what I would take on.
- [56:38]
B
You don't have the time for another.
- [56:39]
D
I don't even know. Yeah. Like, there's so many things that we want to do botanically, but plants is a big thing. And I love plants. Plants. And so it's just trying. It's the how they are painted, how they look. You know, there's so in the early days, it takes so long to get to the point where. Okay, we can go from this point. So there's a lot of back and forth and samples being rejected at this point and not working. So that's kind of something that we're working on.
- [57:05]
B
Well, your cactus looks great. I saw that online.
- [57:08]
D
Thank you. Thank you. He's so cute. So cute.
- [57:12]
B
Well, I know we are doing a big lot. We have you right now just in our flagship store, but we're Rolling out across all of our stores soon. And then future online, we'll have your stems as well.
- [57:25]
D
I know. So excited.
- [57:27]
B
Liz, did you have the timing of all that for the rollout for Caroline? Do you remember the timing for our rollout? So I can be honest to people,
- [57:38]
D
I thought it was five in autumn, winter, and then spring, summer, 27. It was everything. I think, think.
- [57:49]
C
I think you're right.
- [57:52]
D
Yeah. Five or seven. I think spring of. I think spring, summer's every year.
- [57:55]
C
Spring of 27. Yeah. So this fall, we'll. You'll be in at least 10 of our stores, and then we're going to be rolling out even more in the spring of 27.
- [58:06]
D
Amazing.
- [58:06]
C
And we'll have. We'll have more of your botanicals online.
- [58:10]
D
So exciting.
- [58:12]
C
Oh, my gosh. They are so, so gorgeous. I can't wait for all of our listeners to kind of look, look them up because they are just so stunning.
- [58:21]
D
Oh, thank you.
- [58:22]
B
You won't believe them.
- [58:23]
D
Thank you.
- [58:23]
B
I just saw them at Round Top too. I just went past them and saw somebody had purchased them from you in display, and that was beautiful.
- [58:31]
D
Yeah. Oh, that's so nice to know. Well, we're super excited to be partnering with you because we love your brand. It's just got such a. I think we're very aligned with this kind of relaxed and really beautiful interiors and incredible stems. So I think it's a really lovely collab. It's true.
- [58:48]
B
We love lamps, we love painted ceilings,
- [58:52]
A
we love layering, texture.
- [58:54]
D
Exactly. Fabulous.
- [58:58]
A
Can you tell everyone where they can find you, follow you and see your work?
- [59:01]
D
Oh, thank you. Well, abigailahern.com is our website. We have a flagship store in London in Islington, and Abigail Ahern on Instagram is where you'll find me. Daily posting, storying, talking homeware, botanicals, everything to make a space feel layered and beautiful.
- [59:23]
A
I just love your videos. They're incredible.
- [59:25]
D
Thank you.
- [59:27]
A
You have such a great way of talking about, you know, decorating in a way that's real, like, easy, and that's
- [59:35]
D
what it should be, right? Yeah, exactly. And everyone can do it. You don't have to be trained to do it. Exactly.
- [59:40]
A
Yeah.
- [59:41]
D
Well, thank you, guys.
- [59:42]
A
Thanks for joining us. And that's our show. You can find all of the show notes on our blog howtodecorate.com podcast to
- [59:51]
B
send in a decorating dilemma. Email your questions to podcastallarddesigns.net so we
- [59:56]
D
can help you with your space.
- [59:57]
A
And, of course, be sure to follow us on social media.
- [59:59]
C
Alard Designs don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. And please leave us a review. We'd love to hear your feedback.
- [60:07]
A
Until next time, happy decorating.