Ep. 471: Timeless Kitchen Design with Cyndy Cantley

Summary

Podcast Summary: How to Decorate

Episode 471: Timeless Kitchen Design with Cyndy Cantley

Release Date: June 23, 2026
Host(s): Caroline, Taryn, and Liz (Ballard Designs)
Guest: Cyndy Cantley, Principal Designer of Cantley and Toumlin

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Main Theme

A deep dive into the art and practicality of timeless kitchen design with Cyndy Cantley, a renowned kitchen designer. The episode covers the evolution of kitchen aesthetics, essential dos and don’ts for cabinetry, hardware, appliances, layout, and functionality—exploring what truly makes a kitchen beautiful, practical, and enduring.

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Episode Breakdown

Cyndy’s Story: The Serendipitous Path to Kitchen Design

• Cyndy shares how she got into kitchen design:
  • Started with an interior design degree, but realized kitchen design paid more and she enjoyed it.
  • Her husband built their first cabinets “MacGyver-style” in his parents’ basement for a decorator show house.
  • Their kitchen for chef Frank Stitt ended up on the cover of Bon Appetit—her “big break.”
  • “It was a fluke we were lucky... we worked real hard, but it was a nice break.” (03:04, Cyndy)

[03:04] Notable moment — Their 2nd kitchen project made the cover of Bon Appetit.

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The Evolution of Kitchen Design

• Historical trends: Pink pickle cabinets, pink Corian, brown country oak, tile with big grout lines, shift to painting cabinets and natural marble.
• “At some point we figured out you could paint cabinets... then I guess we discovered marble underground at some point.” (04:32, Cyndy)
• Cyndy’s staple of 25 years: Various shades of white kitchens with white marble, citing their enduring appeal.
• “It’s one of the most timeless classic looks you can get.” (05:23, Cyndy)

[04:32] The phase-out of intense kitchen trends in favor of classics

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What Makes Kitchen Design Timeless?

• Cyndy’s roots in English-style, inset cabinetry inspired by Smallbone—simple lines, only a handful of door styles, and classic proportions.
• “No woman needs to pick from 400 door styles. It’s like picking a white paint.” (09:24, Cyndy)
• Consistent rail and style proportions: 1.5 inches for a balanced look, regardless of cabinet size (10:14–10:59).
• Toe kicks: Functional and lined up with appliances, not just for looks (11:11–11:42).
• Keep cabinet/backsplash/countertops classic for longevity:
  • “If you love purple, paint the walls...but don’t do it on the cabinetry. Keep the cabinets more classic so you don’t get tired of it and it doesn’t date itself.” (07:25, Cyndy)

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Functional Cabinetry Details

• Drawers vs. doors:
  • Drawers bring items out to you, are more convenient, cost a bit more—but worth it for everyday pots, pans, etc. (13:08)
  • “Rollouts are nice. Drawers are better, in my opinion, because you have to open the doors for rollouts,” (14:01, Cyndy)
• Corner solutions:
  • Corner swing-outs are preferred over lazy Susans; better use of space (15:22).
• Best bang-for-buck specialty inserts:
  • Spice drawer (alphabetized!), two cutlery drawers, pull-out double trash, tray dividers (16:43).
  • “I only recommend a few, actually. Spice drawer, I think, is the greatest.” (16:39, Cyndy)
• Appliance Paneling:
  • Panel-ready appliances are ideal but require buying the right models to integrate nicely (42:10).

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Trends That Cyndy Questions

• Overcomplicated gadgets and hardware (step stools built into toe kick, hidden toe kick drawers).
• Pull-out dog bowls only make sense for certain pet behaviors (25:17).
• Appliance garages and coffee cabinets: Pocket doors are convenient but can break—regular swing doors are more reliable (31:06).

[31:06] Pocket doors: “If something’s going to break in your kitchen, it’s probably going to be a pocket door...” —Cyndy

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The Art of Appliance Placement and Paneling

• Microwaves:
  • Best behind cabinet doors at eye-level; drawers are expensive and many dislike the awkward use (36:54–38:12)
  • “If it’s about speed, why use a microwave drawer?” (37:21, Caroline)
• Built-in coffee makers: A personal or luxury choice—“my husband now drinks coffee all day long” (41:20).
• Panel-ready dishwashers and fridges:
  • Worth it for a seamless look — but if it’s out of sight, don’t bother (43:16).
  • Dishwashers break more frequently; replacing and matching panels may be tricky (43:21).
  • “Your dishwasher will break before you redo your kitchen again.” (43:21, Cyndy)

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Countertops, Backsplashes, & Flooring

• Marble remains Cyndy’s ultimate timeless choice:
  • “There’s nothing prettier to me than old marble… it tells a story.” (48:02, Cyndy)
  • High maintenance for perfectionists, but ages beautifully for most; clean it with Clorox, despite stone contractors’ nervousness.
• Carrera marble is most economical but has a greyer tone (51:48).
• Stone selection comes first — “You can get any paint color.” (52:01)
• Walnut for islands and accents: beautiful but best when kitchen table isn’t also wood.
• Backsplashes: Matching slab/stone all the way up is popular but can be costly; tile is making a comeback.
• Flooring: Hardwood is the rule now — softer underfoot, warmer, and more forgiving than tile. In renovations, preserve or use existing pine flooring if possible (56:01).
  • “I love painted floors. It’s not strangely durable, but it looks great.” (56:17)

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Hardware: The Jewelry of the Kitchen

• Use a mix of knobs (on top drawers) and pulls (on lower, heavier drawers).
  • “And there is no rhyme or reason to what I do, but for some reason, on the top drawers, I always do knobs. And then the two drawers below, I’ll do a pull.” (57:36)
• Backplates, fake keys on china cabinets, tassels — don’t shy away from a bit of fun (57:13).
• Appliance pulls can be shockingly expensive ($300–600 each); budgets can quickly escalate (59:19).
• Trash cabinets should have pulls, not knobs, for durability and easy identification (60:16).

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Islands, Prep Space, and Layout Logic

• Cyndy prefers nothing on the island (no sink, no stove) for maximum flexibility and workspace, though personal preference ultimately wins (23:23).
• Power outlets: Recent code changes may restrict placement—be aware when planning (21:54).
• Rolling ladders look great for high cabinets, but are cumbersome for everyday use (34:15).

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Pro Tips and Cyndy’s Philosophy

• Customization matters but keep choices manageable:
  • “No one needs to pick from 400 door styles. It’s like picking a white paint.”
• Design for the way you really live.
  • “Don’t design your kitchen for dream selves, design for how you truly live.” (63:13, Caroline)
  • “Your life is not going to change that much. It’s going to be prettier, and you may have people over more, but you still need to… design it for how you and your people live.” (63:19, Cyndy)
• Most important: keep it simple — especially with cabinetry and frequently used elements.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you love purple, paint the walls purple… but keep the cabinets and the backsplash and the countertops more classic so that you don’t get tired of it and it doesn’t date itself.”
  — Cyndy, [07:25]

• “No woman needs to pick from 400 door styles. It’s like picking a white paint.”
  — Cyndy, [09:24]

• “Drawers just make it easier. It’s convenient. It brings everything out to you.”
  — Cyndy, [13:08]

• “I only recommend a few, actually. Spice drawer I think is the greatest.”
  — Cyndy, [16:39]

• “It’s frightening what things we dwell on and ask, the questions we ask. And if two people cook, you have to think differently.”
  — Cyndy, [62:13]

• “Don’t design your kitchen for dream selves; design for how you truly live.”
  — Caroline, [63:13]
  — “Yes, yeah, yeah… your life’s not going to change that much.”
  — Cyndy, [63:19]

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Key Timestamps

• [03:04] – Cyndy’s career origin, first big break
• [07:25] – Timeless design philosophy: Keep classics for big elements
• [09:24] – The folly of endless cabinetry choices
• [16:39] – Top recommended cabinet inserts
• [31:06] – Real talk on pocket doors breaking
• [36:54]–[38:16] – The case for vs. against “microwave drawers”
• [41:20] – Built-in (wall) coffee maker—luxury or lifestyle?
• [48:02] – The age-old debate: Marble vs. everything else
• [52:01] – Always start with the counter/stone, not paint!
• [56:17] – Floors: Painted or hardwood—keep it comfy, keep it warm
• [59:19] – Appliance pulls sticker shock
• [63:13 & 63:19] – Philosophical takeaway: Design for your real life

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Invest in classic, well-proportioned cabinetry, simple hardware, and timeless materials.
• Focus on practical, time-proven storage solutions (spice drawer, trash pullout, cutlery dividers) before chasing the latest gadgets.
• Panel-ready appliances look great only when properly spec’d.
• Pick the countertop/marble BEFORE choosing paint or other finish colors.
• Wood floors are in; match existing if possible, and don’t worry about painting floors in the right space.
• Design realistically for your daily life and future—not your “dream self.”
• A beautiful, functional kitchen is about thoughtful simplicity, not gadget overload or short-lived trends.

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Find Cyndy Cantley’s work: Instagram @CantleyToulmin or search “Cindy Cantley” (with a Y).
Hosts: Ballard Designs Team – Caroline, Taryn, Liz

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For all show notes and links: www.howtodecorate.com/podcast

Transcript

[Caroline]

Welcome to how to Decorate from Ballard Designs, a weekly podcast all about the trials and triumphs of decorating and redecorating your home. I'm Caroline. I'm on the marketing team.

[Taryn]

And I'm Taryn and I'm a product designer.

[Liz]

I'm Liz. I head of the creative team.

[Caroline]

We're your hosts. Join the expert team at Ballard Designs for tips, tricks and tales from interior designers, stylists and other talents in the design world.

[Taryn]

Plus, we'll answer your decorating dilemmas at the end of each episode.

[Liz]

We love answering your questions, so don't forget to email [e-mail] now on with the show.

[Caroline]

Okay, our guest today. We have been trying to get you on the podcast for over a year. So we're thrilled to have you here in person at our studio. Cindy Cantley. She's a kitchen expert, principal designer of Cantley and Tolman. She's built an incredible career focusing on bespoke, beautifully functional kitchens. And we can't wait to pick your brain about kitchens, kitchen trends. I know Liz has many questions because she's working on her own kitchen project. So welcome to the show.

[Cindy Cantley]

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[Caroline]

Okay, you were telling us before we started recording about how you got into kitchen design and how you and your husband started your company many years ago. And it's a great story. So I was hoping you could retell it for our listeners because it was, it's funny. Such a unique one.

[Cindy Cantley]

It is funny. Well, and I got into kitchen design because I majored in interior design. And, and that was so long ago that no one really mentioned you don't make enough money to live with a degree in design. And so I worked for a really good designer in Birmingham and which I was lucky. And I worked at Benetton. Y' all probably don't know Benetton.

[Liz]

Oh yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

Nights and weekends. And so I started doing kitchens because you literally got paid more. And met my husband along the way. He was actually my manager at a place where I worked and we dated for several years, got married. They asked us if we would do a decorator show house and we said yes because we were just young and dumb and had nothing to lose. Although he did not build cabinets, but he, he, he's very MacGyverish and built the cabinets in his parents basement and we did the show house and it was lovely. And one of the people that came through the house was Frank Stitt, a very well known chef in Birmingham. And we did his kitchen. It was besides the show house. It was the first kitchen we did and it ended up on the COVID of Bon Appetit magazine. And that was kind of how it started. We were very fortunate. It was just great timing and we were very lucky and we worked real hard. But it was a nice break.

[Taryn]

How serendipitous.

[Cindy Cantley]

I know.

[Taryn]

In every way. And to have your second job on a cover of a magazine.

[Cindy Cantley]

I know. Because we've only been on maybe two or three covers ever. So it was. But it was a fluke we were liking.

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And Frankston is, you know, of all of the people in Birmingham, to be your sort of spokesperson or showcase your work, he's the one. Because, you know, James Beard Award winner and yeah, amazing kitchen was.

[Cindy Cantley]

Is quite the accomplishment.

[Caroline]

So you've definitely seen a lot in terms of kitchen trends and the arc of sort of how kitchens have evolved and from like a high level. How would you say things have changed since you started the company? Like, are there. Are there overarching things that, you know, have evolved over time?

[Cindy Cantley]

I think that it had nowhere to go but up from when I started doing kitchens. You know, there were, there were a lot of guys, there were cabinet salesmen back then and I was one of the very few people with a degree in design that was doing kitchens in Birmingham at the time. And. And so I think that helped also my career. Unfortunately, pickle cabinets had just kind of been invented or become popular and there was nothing better to a 20 something year old girl than a pink kitchen. And I kind of feel bad for all those that I did over the years for people. And then I remember even Corian came out with pink countertop, pink Corian countertops. And I just feel so bad that I did that to so many people, but I thought it was just the cutest thing ever.

[Caroline]

I'm sure they loved it, though.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah, they did. And it was, you know, it was the first kind of thing past brown cabinets. Just that ugly bad brown oak cabinet that people did. Very country looking, in my opinion. So it was very exciting that we had pickle cabinets which did not age well. You know, they kind of yellowed over time and.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

So from there, you know, at some point we figured out you could paint cabinets. I'm not sure why we weren't doing that before. Well, many a hundred years ago they did. And then it seemed to kind of go away and then it came back. And then I guess we discovered marble underground at some point. So I don't know where that had been during the laminate Corian. And then it kind of skipped to Grant. Oh, yeah. And tile. Tile with the big, fat grout lines. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I did do a few of those, too. I'm sure they probably were pink. And so then we started doing marble, and so. And I kind of made my living for probably 25 years doing some shade of white kitchen with white marble. And I still think it's one of the most timeless classics looks you can get. I do get very excited when people want to do color, though.

[Caroline]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean. Cause even just, you know, there's definitely been sort of the. The white. White kitchen, farmhouse sinks, and so many things that I think. Well.

[Liz]

And I mean, are there. Have you seen an arc of different kitchen designs? Because, like, I think in the 90s, like, everything, everyone wanted a Tuscan kitchen and, you know, and then, you know, in the 80s, everything was, like, really tight and modern and, you know. Yeah. So I guess kind of what we're. What we're kind of together. Asking is like, is there. Is there an arc or a trend or how long do those things last?

[Cindy Cantley]

I had worked, before I got married, I'd worked for an architect in Birmingham, which is located where Chef Von Fawn is now.

[Caroline]

How funny.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah, a very, very good architect back in the day. And we sell smallbone cabinets, which was a lovely English line of cabinets. So again, for Birmingham, that was rather cutting edge. They were terribly expensive. I mean, I think an average kitchen then was probably around 100,000 for the cabinets. And this was in the.

[Caroline]

Wow.

[Cindy Cantley]

You know, early 90s, late 80s, early 90s. And so I fell in love with that English style. And so when we started our business, we didn't mean to start, but we did. That's what we did. We did that English inset cabinet, and nobody else was doing that. And I think people loved that, and they couldn't get it anywhere else. And that also helped us in our career, and I think people came to us for that look. So we. I don't think over the years, we did as many trends as other people did, because that's still basically what we do.

[Liz]

Yeah. Which is absolutely timeless.

[Cindy Cantley]

It really is. We have things in our portfolio that are 30 years old that still looks so pretty.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Liz]

Do those. Do those trend type of things just make you cringe a little bit?

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah. I just think it's such an expensive room that it's. Keep it classic. You know, if you love purple, paint the walls purple or, you know, the ceiling or wallpaper or fabric or, you know, but. But don't do that. I mean, no one's doing their cabinets purple, but, you know, keep the cabinets and the backsplash and the countertops more classic so that you don't get tired of it and it doesn't date itself.

[Caroline]

Yeah, well, it would seem like, you know, things in the kitchen, in kitchen trends have just gotten very hyperfunctional, which is a good thing. But just there's so, you know, many options and in terms of different types of, you know, cabinet accoutrements and, you know, so much. So what are. What are sort of some things that, you know, are highlights for you as far as, you know, how. How kitchens have become more functional and, like, how they've become better, I guess, kitchen design in general.

[Cindy Cantley]

Gosh. Why I know all the answers to kitchen things.

[Taryn]

Well, I want to break it down by kind of like, I want to talk cabinetry first, then I want to talk countertops, then I want to talk appliances. Like, I want to break it down by, like, little bites, you know, of like what makes the kitchen. So I like this. You said that you've designed kitchens that you that have stood the test of time.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yes.

[Taryn]

What do you think it is about that original company you worked for, the English company Smallbone?

[Cindy Cantley]

Small Bones.

[Taryn]

Small bones. What was the details that really stood the test of time that you can look at that work now and even say, that's beautiful. In the cabinetry, it has not changed at all.

[Cindy Cantley]

It's just a simple inset, flush drawer door cabinet. We only had ever probably six different door styles.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

And people were fine with that. You know, I mean, you go to like, even like inexpensive places and they tout that they have 400 door styles, you know?

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

No woman needs to pick from 400 door styles. It's like picking a white paint.

[Caroline]

So like a shaker, you know, it

[Cindy Cantley]

kind of is just that. That basic English inset with. With different types of bead. Always a bead around it. You could have a bead around the center panel or not have a bead where it's more shaker. But we just keep it. We've always kept it very simple, and I think that's what. It just doesn't change. It doesn't take. It looks like a piece of like an antique piece.

[Taryn]

But being in set is what is important versus the door on top. Yeah. Okay.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Liz]

Has the width of. Because now I'm. I'm looking at doors and I'm having these 400 options and it's. It is over. Overwhelming.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Liz]

Has the width of the I. Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

What Are what.

[Liz]

Wait, what are the components of a door?

[Cindy Cantley]

Like rails and styles. But ours, we always made ours an inch and a half.

[Liz]

An inch and a half.

[Cindy Cantley]

The face frame, and then you have the bead, and then you have the door.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Liz]

Okay. Great. Okay. No, this is. This is all really important because those type of ratios are so.

[Cindy Cantley]

Because it can look chunky or it can, you know, if you get it too thin, it looks cheap or.

[Liz]

Right. Or you get it too fat and it's too, too heavy.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yes.

[Caroline]

Well, do you ever change the. The. The rail. What did you call it? The rail.

[Cindy Cantley]

The rail.

[Caroline]

The rail part, depending on how deep the drawer is. Like, if the drawer is real narrow, would the proportion change? Or, like, shallow, you know? No. Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

Okay. No, it's inch and a half. Inch and a half. Inch and a half between each thing.

[Caroline]

And then what about. What about, like, the toe kick? Because I have orange, so. But. But you're a normal toe kick instead of. Well, because when I think of English cabinetry, I think of either no toe kick or like a decorative sort of foot.

[Cindy Cantley]

I try to keep things simple.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

And make it easy for clients. Appliances have a four inch toe kick. So if you want it all to line up at the bottom, which are the crazy things that I notice.

[Taryn]

Yeah. It's a great one, though.

[Cindy Cantley]

You know, we have people all the time, like, well, I'm tall. I want my cabinets taller. We make them tall as you want them. We can't stretch appliances, and we can only raise those little legs up so far to keep that line straight at the bottom.

[Caroline]

Okay. Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

And toe kicks are there for a reason in a kitchen, because you. Otherwise you kick it. And if the cabinets are painted, that's not going to wear well over time.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Taryn]

Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

Well, I mean, bookcases and things will run pretty furniture mold around it and as you should. Or even like, maybe a powder room. But that toe kick. Notice next time you cook, I mean, your feet literally go into the toe

[Caroline]

kick, you know, but that is a true. I mean, I feel like that is something you're seeing more on Pinterest, so.

[Cindy Cantley]

And we have people ask for that, and I usually point out why it's there. If they want it, we'll do anything. But it's my job to tell them there's a reason that toe kick is there.

[Liz]

Right.

[Cindy Cantley]

And it lines up with the American appliances and.

[Taryn]

Brilliant.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

See, that's a great reason. All right, what's up?

[Caroline]

Got your. Your cabinet.

[Taryn]

We're still in cabinetry.

[Liz]

How.

[Taryn]

I have noticed. I Feel like there's a trend towards the drawer versus doors.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yes, definitely. Which I agree with.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

Okay. And why is that?

[Cindy Cantley]

It's just easier to get to everything. Don't you hate. I mean, for so long, people had nothing but doors. I mean, so many kitchens I go in, they'll have, like, besides the drawers, right at the top, they might have one stack. And so you. Your pots and pans are down there, and if there's not a roll out in there, you're having to move the things in the front to get to the back, and you just don't use them. You just leave them. It's just you use the same four pots all the time. So drawers just make it easier. It's convenient. It brings everything out to you.

[Caroline]

And should I expect to pay more for a drawer versus a door?

[Cindy Cantley]

Yes. More labor, more wood.

[Caroline]

So what would be like, is it gonna be twice the cost? Not twice that. Twice.

[Cindy Cantley]

So depends on the cabinet and the cabinet company. I mean, it's. For us, it wouldn't have been, you know, everything was wood and dovetailed. And so it's just more labor.

[Caroline]

But, you know, but it's not significantly more. It would be more okay.

[Taryn]

No, it does fun. I mean, I put them in my kitchen, and I will say where my pots and pans are. It is true. Like, they're stacked in there perfectly. And then I go home to my mom's kitchen, and I literally am like, I can't even see what's in here. And then you pull something out, and everything falls forward, and you are. You're like, ragey.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

After you get used to the. I think just the functionality, you are like, oh, the drawers just. Just function so well.

[Cindy Cantley]

And again, I don't know why it took them. Took us that long to figure that out, you know?

[Caroline]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

And roll outs are nice. Drawers are better, in my opinion, because of rollout. You have to open the doors. You have to open them all the way back, or it'll scrape against them.

[Caroline]

Oh, yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

But you can stack more in a rollout than a drawer. So it's nice to have those, you know, one or two somewhere.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

Because I did. When we did our last kitchen, like, 20 something years ago, I did all drawers. Only cabinet I had was the sink base. And I realized that, you know, like, the tall thing of, like, Crisco or whatever, you know, the oil wouldn't fit in a drawer, and I literally kept it under my sink. It was the only thing that I couldn't get to fit. But it was like, but, you know, you learn that.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

And it's. So I always do one cabinet somewhere with roll outs for the stock pot or the, you know, just.

[Liz]

You have a few power things.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Okay.

[Taryn]

That's a good one.

[Liz]

That is a good one. Okay. Corners like.

[Caroline]

Oh, like the corner. Yeah, yeah. How do you treat a corner?

[Cindy Cantley]

I mean, they. We always use just the same thing, and it was called a corner swing out, where it's. It's not a lazy Susan. It just goes one direction and comes out to you. When people would look at it before the countertops go on, they realize that they're wasting about this much in the back because the swing out can't go all the way to the back. But it does make it more convenient, and it brings it to you. I mean, I think that's the best option you can do. Or just kill the corner, you know, don't have access to it at all.

[Caroline]

Kill it.

[Cindy Cantley]

Okay. And most people don't want to do that.

[Caroline]

No.

[Liz]

Because that's. That still just feels like valuable space that you could have something.

[Cindy Cantley]

I think those swing outs are the best. Yeah.

[Liz]

So swing outs versus lazy Susan. I. My. My hands immediately go in as soon as I think of a lazy Susan. Just because of the ones that we had in our house that we. From our 70s kitchen. Oh, no.

[Taryn]

The finger.

[Liz]

No, but as. But as kids, we would. We would get that thing going.

[Caroline]

Oh.

[Liz]

And we would spin it really fast.

[Cindy Cantley]

Was it the kind of. The door attached to it so the whole thing would. Yeah.

[Liz]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

And those never hold up. Well, they never hang. Right.

[Taryn]

Wait, the door was attached to it? Yeah. So now, like.

[Liz]

So it was, like, Pac man shaped. If you were looking at it overhead and you. You had to spin it to.

[Taryn]

Oh, I do know which one you're talking about. I know what you're talking about.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Instead of pulling the door open, you

[Taryn]

literally just push the door. Yes, yes, yes.

[Liz]

Right. Yeah. So, yeah. If you have kids, don't get that one.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caroline]

Okay. There's so many, like, inserts, and, you know, now there's like, the spice drawer, and there's the. The skinny pull out next to the oven where you put your bottles. And what are some of. What. Okay. If someone was like, I can do a couple. I can't afford to do all of them. What are the ones that you think are the best bang for your buck?

[Cindy Cantley]

I only recommend a few, actually. Spice drawer, I think is the greatest.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

I mean, I have it, and I'm so not that fabulous, organized person, but I have them in alphabetical order and you know exactly where everything is. You know, when you don't have something. We do. We typically do two cutlery drawers. One for your cooking utensils next to the range and then one for your everyday silver. And obviously pull out trash. Usually a double trash.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

Tray dividers are nice.

[Caroline]

Tray dividers. Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

I think that's it.

[Caroline]

Those are. That's it.

[Cindy Cantley]

That's it.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

I mean they make a great pop up thing for a mixer. I've never seen one that works. I mean they won't lock. Both sides won't lock. And then your, you know, nice kitchenaids teetering around. And E. Yeah. And I don't know why I don't love those pull outs for the oils and vinegars. I just think it's awkward to get to. It's low. I'd rather have that. A wall cabinet or.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

Or do a pretty tray next to your range and put them on that. Okay. Get a great ballard tray.

[Taryn]

Oh, that's.

[Cindy Cantley]

I know.

[Taryn]

We do have those.

[Cindy Cantley]

I know. And that's pretty. I mean it is. And olive oil bottles are pretty.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

I was going to ask about the. How do you do your sheet pans and like your cutting boards in the trader botters. Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

And two of those are nice. I think people always think, you know, when those first started they were like these cabinets this big. They wouldn't hold anything. I mean it was like a 9 or 12 inch cabinet. And if you do have double ovens, like a cooktop and double ovens, the perfect place is above there because it's high but you can reach the bottom and get them out. And then I think it's nice to have one for cutting boards. We use a lot of cutting boards.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

I have one of those and I really. Mine's a full door though, that pulls out and it.

[Cindy Cantley]

Oh, you get them from the top

[Taryn]

and you get them from the top and you pull them out. And so all of our sheet pans and our cutting boards are all there, but it's the width of like a regular door. And that one is really nice. Just because it's right there. I can reach it. I can access it.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah. Because that's another jumbly mess too. If they're not organized.

[Taryn]

Well.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

And if you stack them high or.

[Caroline]

Well, I guess so yours is a pullout drawer and. But you also.

[Cindy Cantley]

We do that too.

[Caroline]

Okay. Or there's like above appliance around because

[Cindy Cantley]

those tall deep cabinets, you lose things in them. So you might. If you have that put them up there. We've also done drawers for like cake pans and things because those don't stack well, you know, they fall over.

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

So you can do a little bit deeper than normal drawer and those fit down in it and that's nice.

[Caroline]

Oh, that's okay. I like that. You did the spice rack, the trash cutlery and the utensils. And wait, there was one more.

[Cindy Cantley]

Tray dividers.

[Caroline]

Yeah, the tray dividers. I feel like that's a good just bas. Because you can really go crazy.

[Cindy Cantley]

I think that's what. Yeah.

[Taryn]

We talked about the trends that are out there are wild for the things that pull out and different things. You see. And you're like.

[Caroline]

And like the hole in the cutting board over the trash can and the, you know.

[Liz]

Well, and the double drawers. So like you open up one drawer and then there's like a special holder for the paper towel and then.

[Taryn]

Oh, yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

And I do like the built in paper towels if the sink's on the island because I hate for the paper towels to sit on the island.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

Oh, that's a good.

[Cindy Cantley]

Against the wall.

[Taryn]

I hadn't thought about that.

[Liz]

Yeah, I like. I like that.

[Cindy Cantley]

But it's a little awkward. It doesn't work perfectly though, in the. In the drawer. But we do them where behind it. You put either two or three more rolls of paper towels in the rest of the drawer. So okay.

[Caroline]

Yes. Does it. Does it make it to where you only can buy a certain number of paper towels? Like now paper towels, you know, every brand. It's like we do the triple. The triple roll with the double platform.

[Cindy Cantley]

And we just had a client not long ago. It's weird. It's the first time it had ever happened. He was like, my paper towels won't fit in here. I'm like, you have to get a smaller roll. This is what we use. I'm like, well, not anymore. You have to get a smaller roll. Or we can take that out. You can put them on your island, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Liz]

No going. No going to.

[Caroline]

What's funny how you just. You don't. Can't get the rolls until you get it. And you're like, oh, I just got 36 rolls of paper towels from Costco. They're not going to fit in my brand new paper towel doodad. Yeah.

[Liz]

Oh, yeah. That you're. That would drive me crazy.

[Taryn]

Okay. This is very specific to kind of what you just said, but I'm. Now I'm wondering if your sink has to be in your kitchen. Island and. Or you've decided that. What are the differences sort of. That you make.

[Caroline]

How would you treat.

[Taryn]

Because you also have the button for your sink. The disposal. Disposal. But like I know that's there. And then you have to have the vent range. All things like that or. No, that's an oven.

[Caroline]

That's the oven in the island.

[Taryn]

If you have to do. Yes, if you have to do your stovetop and. Or your sink in your kitchen island. How does it vary? There we go.

[Caroline]

I don't think.

[Cindy Cantley]

I mean, it's just a preference thing. I mean, if I can do a kitchen with nothing on the island, that's the goal. Because I think it's such a great workspace. Yeah. No sink, no cooktop, no blinds.

[Taryn]

Power.

[Liz]

Power in the kitchen island.

[Cindy Cantley]

Oh, yeah.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

You know, they're changing the codes in Birmingham to where we can't have them on ends anymore. Have they done that here yet? You can only have the pop ups now, which you know are going to break, but maybe not. That was negative.

[Caroline]

Why can't you?

[Cindy Cantley]

Because they've decided after all these years that if you have for example, your fry daddy up there and a child runs by and loops the cord and pulls it off. Oh, oh. Which could happen.

[Caroline]

I mean, sure, but.

[Taryn]

Yeah, but your kid could also go by your hot boiling water on the edge. I mean, okay, it's a cord thing.

[Cindy Cantley]

It's a cord thing.

[Taryn]

So you gotta have a cordless fry daddy.

[Caroline]

So you would prefer to have the sink on the exterior instead of in the center in the island.

[Cindy Cantley]

I just think islands are great for prep, for serving, for homework, for hanging out. And if you don't have to have appliances there. Yeah, it's fine. Now if someone likes their sink there or we have people that like their cooktop there cause they want to talk to people then. Then I think that's great.

[Caroline]

Well, that's what I was going to ask. Because I do. It does seem as though.

[Cindy Cantley]

I don't.

[Caroline]

I hate to say trend, but maybe the ideal for some people would be to have the sink in the island so that they could then look out into the rest of the room.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And so I think many people would be thinking, oh, I thought that that was like what I should be doing. So I just was curious what your reasoning was.

[Cindy Cantley]

There is no right or wrong. Yeah, there's not. And I think some of it may be. I mean, if you have young kids, I mean, you might want that so that you can keep it on them while you're prepping and washing and Cleaning up. But then a lot of people are like, well, I can't imagine not looking out the window when I make my sink. So, yeah, every kitchen I do is different, and. And I'm. I've done this forever, and I'm good at what I do, but it. In the end, it's their kitchen.

[Caroline]

Right.

[Cindy Cantley]

And if they want their sink on the island and it's fine.

[Caroline]

Yeah, well, but it's just nice to consider, like, what are the. The pros and cons?

[Cindy Cantley]

There's no right or wrong. There is no right or wrong. I probably should not have said it that way, but to me, a perfect kitchen workspace is. Is nothing on an island.

[Caroline]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Taryn]

And you're. I think you are.

[Caroline]

You have years of experience.

[Taryn]

You're allowed to have your own personal opinion. Because I think a lot of people do have a strong opinion on kitchen because of the way they know they function. Or, like, I am that person who is like, if I don't have a window over my sink, like, exactly, like, Right. So I phobia. Yeah.

[Caroline]

But also, I mean, you only know what you've had, and so if you haven't had it in the sink and you think, oh, that's what I need, or I'm sorry. Yeah, you haven't had the sink in the island, and you think that's what, you know, everyone is doing, therefore, I need to do. Yeah. You might do it without really realizing what the.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

You know, the pros and cons are, I guess, is what I.

[Taryn]

100%. I think that's why that conversation's good, because it could. She could have said, I love it, and here's why. So, like, I think having that, you know, big piece of stone usually, too, is so. It's so beautiful. Yeah.

[Caroline]

Okay. You were also talking about the. The step stools and all the other. Let's talk about some other, like, weird

[Taryn]

one nuance I've seen.

[Caroline]

Cabinet.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

Do a lot of people do, like, the dog bowl pull out?

[Caroline]

Yes, we do.

[Cindy Cantley]

But, you know, you have to talk about how the dog eats because you don't want it pulled out all the time.

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

Because a lot of times we'll do them on the end of an island and people would probably fall over it or if the dog grazes, you know, but if you feed the dog and they only have one dog, then it's great. And the dog eats when you feed him. But if it needs to stay rolled out all day long and typically the water's next to it. Um, yeah, all the time. It just depends on, you know, if they can go in a laundry room. I think that's great. Um, yeah, I like them.

[Caroline]

I, I, I think it's, I've seen some people do the, it's like an inset. Oh, yeah. Cubby.

[Taryn]

Where it doesn't allow.

[Cindy Cantley]

With a faucet.

[Caroline]

With a faucet, yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

It's just money.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah, We've done it and they're cool. And we always zoom in when we photograph it and.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Well, would you do the cubby instead of a pull out? That seems like a maybe.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah. And you're going to have scraps of marble left over. I mean, if nothing else, your sink cut out would fit in there because you want it to be able to clean. You wouldn't want that to be wood.

[Liz]

Right, Right.

[Taryn]

Okay. Yeah, I'll drool.

[Caroline]

Keep going. Dog. Dog bowls.

[Taryn]

I was going to say, have you seen any cool ones? Because my other one was step stool, like where it like pulls out and it's like a ladder.

[Liz]

I keep seeing that one.

[Taryn]

Is that. Yeah.

[Liz]

Have you seen this?

[Cindy Cantley]

I have.

[Caroline]

So specific.

[Cindy Cantley]

And I've seen them like that fit down in the toe kick, but it only comes up about a foot. And I feel like women. If we need a ladder in there, you need them.

[Taryn]

Oh, I need to get to that tall upper. Yeah.

[Liz]

Right.

[Cindy Cantley]

I'd rather do a tall cabinet with a huge tray divider in it and slide a step stool in there where, where you have it and it has a handle on it and you can

[Taryn]

you pull out yours? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense though.

[Caroline]

Well, you think about, it's just the age where your kids need a step stool. I mean, I suppose it is like, what, seven or eight years, but you're hopefully designing your kitchen for more like 20, you know, 25, you know, so

[Liz]

I don't think, I don't think the kids need the step stools for nearly as long as we think that they do when they're little.

[Caroline]

Well, I will say I agree. I think Karen talked me into getting the touch faucet, which I like for that reason because it's easier for my kids to reach the faucet than the handle.

[Cindy Cantley]

Right.

[Caroline]

So they, it's totally makes sense for many reasons. Some people hate it, though.

[Cindy Cantley]

So as long as it works, it's great.

[Caroline]

Yeah. I mean, I like it, but what about, what about.

[Liz]

I've seen hidden drawers in the toe kick.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah. Right.

[Liz]

Is that helpful or is that just something that's going to get stuck and I'm never going to get it open.

[Caroline]

I don't.

[Cindy Cantley]

We, I mean, over the years we've had people ask us to do that. It's very small, literally. It's probably not more than, you know, where they want to hide things in there. And I'm like, I'm not sure what they're hiding or I don't know. Yeah, okay. Money, drugs, enough silver for me.

[Taryn]

If you don't know, you don't need to ask or what is it?

[Liz]

I know. I'm so not that way. Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

I know. I mean it'd be great for.

[Taryn]

No, it's a great question.

[Cindy Cantley]

You know, things like that. But it's almost, it's just almost not even deep enough for even that.

[Taryn]

Because you're adding, you're adding a very shallow drawer.

[Cindy Cantley]

No one's going to pay. Putting your jewelry in there. You're never going to wear the jewelry

[Liz]

because if it's a 4 inch toe kick and then you need clearance for the actual functionality of it, you've got yourself down to three inches. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Okay.

[Caroline]

What about like plates and glassware in the drawer versus the cabinet?

[Cindy Cantley]

We've gotten to where we do so, you know, we do less wall cabinets now. So they have to go somewhere. So I think it works. I mean it's. I don't have a problem with that. I try to do. I love dish cabinets, you know, where you have floor to ceiling and you can swing that open and you can read. Women can reach so much more of that than a, you know, typically a wall cabinet, you can reach the first two shelves and that's it. So if you have tall cabinets, it looks nice and it holds everything and

[Caroline]

you can see like a solid cabinet top to bottom.

[Cindy Cantley]

And if. Yeah, and not necessarily 24 deep. If you do it 24 deep, then you've, then you've got to buy rollouts for all the way up and that gets pricey. And so if you can do it, I mean wild cabinet's 12 deep. So I would, you know, 15 or 18.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Caroline]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Cindy Cantley]

And that way

[Caroline]

basically one plate deep.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

You know, without. Yeah. Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

You don't lose anything in there. You can see it, get it. And your whole set of china is right there, right? Yeah, that's part.

[Liz]

So what do you think about, about the absence of wall cabinets?

[Cindy Cantley]

I kind of like it. I, I think it just cleans it up and it's not so cookie cutter buildery looking where they're just lined around the room. But I mean it is a kitchen and it has, you have to, you have to be able to get those tall cabinets somewhere.

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

You know, I love, like, the little back kitchens that are so popular now.

[Caroline]

Like a scullery. Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

But most. You know, mainly what we do is remodeling because it's older. Birmingham's an older city. It's like here. And we don't have big kitchens and people are accustomed to that and they. They want so much out of their kitchen. And I do occasionally have to remind them that I'm not a magician. You know, unless we're knocking the back wall of the house out, it is what it is, but we can always make it better.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Liz]

Okay. What about coffee and appliance cabinets and those kind of. I feel like those have become really special.

[Cindy Cantley]

I kind of love those because it gets all that stuff off the counter and then. And you have doors, pocket doors or folding doors, and you can close it and you don't see it and so

[Caroline]

is that a wall cabinet? Is that like a.

[Liz]

There are so many different mechanisms. There's like the hydraulic kind of, like, lift where a door just kind of comes up.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yes.

[Liz]

There's. Yeah. The pocket doors or just swing open doors. Am I missing anything? Like.

[Cindy Cantley]

And move bifold.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

It just depends on how wide it is, how many appliances you want in there and.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

Which type of.

[Liz]

Which type of doors do you like the best?

[Cindy Cantley]

I mean, the. The most practical would be just swing open and use it and then close them.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

Pocket doors are a little finicky. You have to be careful with them. You know, if something's going to break in your kitchen, it's probably going to be a pocket door at some point.

[Taryn]

I got a pocket door. I feel that. I feel. It just feels like. It's like if it's going broke, it's

[Cindy Cantley]

going to be this. Because, I mean, like, really, you have to be careful.

[Taryn]

It's a huge mechanism.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

It's terribly expensive hardware. It's hard to repair.

[Taryn]

See, things I didn't know do. And. And I shut it. I do shut. When I'm done with coffee. Like, it's not every day. Yeah. Mine's not a beautiful. It's. Mine's just not beautiful. Mine's my toaster and my.

[Cindy Cantley]

Unless you're doing a photo shoot, it's not going to be, you know. And what you see published is. It's styled for that, right?

[Liz]

Yes.

[Taryn]

It's like all matching mugs and a perfect little. No, mine is my coffees shoved in there. All my. Oh, my. Like, sentimental mugs that I'm like Oh, I can't get rid of this. But it doesn't match, you know, like

[Cindy Cantley]

what your kids make.

[Taryn]

Yes, exactly. Those are shoved in there. And so I don't want people to see it. So anyway, that's why I went pocket doors. I could have probably come. I probably could have just done doors.

[Cindy Cantley]

Well, they, they're in the way though, because it's usually a pretty big cabinet. So that's. It kind of depends on where it is in your kitchen.

[Taryn]

That's true. It is nice because I do push it back and if like people are in town, then it, it is like I just leave it open so everyone can get their coffee.

[Cindy Cantley]

It's fun to do it. We've even done it where there's doors behind the doors, you know, where we'll do the inside and walnut or we'll do the inside and we did one. I think it was a Sherwin Williams color tutti frutti. That was so fun and unexpected when you opened it. Like just hot pink. I mean.

[Liz]

Oh, I love. So yeah. Fun.

[Cindy Cantley]

It was fun.

[Taryn]

Oh, that was fun. Let's do that. A little hidden, like fun gem of color.

[Caroline]

I love that.

[Cindy Cantley]

Because people don't expect it and it's just fun. Or you can wallpaper the back or you can. It's just fun to do things like that with cabinets. Talk to us about height.

[Caroline]

Do you always go to the ceiling? Are there certain ceiling heights? That is too crazy. What, what's kind of your thought process?

[Cindy Cantley]

I mean, most of the houses we do are nine foot ceilings. And we did go to the ceiling with that 10. You can, you can push it a little bit for that. You can only make doors so tall or you start having problems with them warping because they're just, they're not as thick as interior doors. And with inset cabinets, they, you know, start moving and you. They don't fit flush inside the cabinet anymore. But then, you know, people will build new houses with 11, 12 foot ceilings and it's, it's just money. So you can't reach it. Well, yeah, they want them all. I mean, and people tend to not want, they want them to go all the way up because it's dusty and it's. Yeah, so we'll do them all the way up. You're paying for two cabinets around the entire room. A lot of times we'll add the ladders, the rolling ladders, and it's.

[Caroline]

It's just a rolling ladder. I don't understand because in my mind I'm like, it looks beautiful, but it's always the way. So you gotta move. So, you know, you already are having to open all the doors to get to whatever you're wanting. But now you gotta remove a ladder and then open the door.

[Cindy Cantley]

You still need two people because you've got to hand them whatever you're getting out.

[Caroline]

Yeah, that's right.

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

That's the ladder with the.

[Cindy Cantley]

With the platters and.

[Taryn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can speak from experience, but it looks good. Yeah. My. I've. Mine go 10ft.

[Cindy Cantley]

Are they 10?

[Taryn]

So the ones over my fridge, again, like, I can't. I can't. I'm on the ladder with my big platters or whatever. I have to pass them to someone. So she is correct.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

There's no. Otherwise I have to get down my rickety. Yes. Like my little step stool storage.

[Cindy Cantley]

And you can definitely put the china. Like Christmas china.

[Taryn]

Oh, yeah. Mine's like, anytime I'm having a party, it's like. It is just. I'm up there for a reason, but it is something to think about.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

You're not putting your day to day

[Cindy Cantley]

stuff up there right now.

[Caroline]

Like the ladder. Having to move it all the time. That's like.

[Taryn]

I do have to move the ladder in and out. I probably use my ladder once a day.

[Caroline]

But it's not a fixed ladder.

[Taryn]

Nope. It's a step stool ladder. Front gate ladder.

[Cindy Cantley]

Right, right, right, right, right.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

It's not a rolling ladder.

[Caroline]

You pull the ladder out once a

[Taryn]

day every day for something up there around my house, which is all my ten foot. You know, it's like any cabinetry. If I'm getting games down, watering a plant in the other room on the bookcase. Like, I use my step stool.

[Caroline]

No, I do too. I mean. But not necessarily my kitchen, though.

[Taryn]

Yeah. Every. Yeah. Not every day. You're right. You're right.

[Caroline]

No, I mean, I would think that most of the stuff you're using lately is.

[Taryn]

Everybody lives. Yeah. No, it's like refilling the spice drawer. If anything's out, the excess is up in a taller cabinet.

[Caroline]

See?

[Taryn]

Gotcha.

[Cindy Cantley]

That's backstock. Backstock. The back stock. Yeah. And they only last for about two years if they're not in your freezer.

[Caroline]

So the big spices.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

Good to know. Need to go through. Don't come eat at my house.

[Cindy Cantley]

I gotta look at some dates.

[Taryn]

No, I'm kidding. There's not that much.

[Caroline]

Okay. Should we move on to appliances? Are there any.

[Taryn]

Okay. I want to go to counter.

[Caroline]

Countertops. Okay. Yes.

[Taryn]

We didn't talk hardware either.

[Caroline]

Though. Oh, okay.

[Taryn]

On the doors. Hold on.

[Liz]

We didn't. And I. Appliance cabinet. I do want to talk one last cabinet.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah, yeah.

[Taryn]

Sweet. Well, yeah, that will lead us to appliances. Let's do that. That will be a great route.

[Liz]

Okay, good. Microwaves. Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

Put em behind the doors in that appliance cabinet on a shelf. Breaks in five years, throw it away and put a new one in. I mean, microwave drawers are. A lot of people haven't loved their microwave drawers. Do y' all have them?

[Caroline]

No, they. There's something weird to me about putting food down in. I don't. Tried it one time at, like, this rental house, and I was like, oh, God, it's so awkward to, like, place your food down in the drawer, and

[Cindy Cantley]

then it's awkward to clean when the butter blows up for the drawer.

[Caroline]

I mean, here's the thing. You want to microwave for speed, and the drawer comes out at like.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah. And goes back in the same way.

[Liz]

You know what I mean?

[Caroline]

So I'm like, I'm using microwave for speed, but it takes five to ten seconds to open.

[Taryn]

Well, that's because it can't go at what speed?

[Cindy Cantley]

Your food just slide up.

[Caroline]

That's a point. But so if it's about speed, then why. Fair enough, fair enough.

[Taryn]

No, I see what you're saying. They're microwaving for speed.

[Caroline]

And I think the one thing I. And okay, y', all. I'm saying this as someone who doesn't even own any microwave. But you don't have a microwave. I don't own a microwave. Yes. But the thing that I want a microwave for is a cup of coffee. So something about putting the cup of coffee in a drawer down and like, liquids down in it. I don't know.

[Cindy Cantley]

I don't like it.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Caroline]

I don't want to put a bowl of soup down in a drawer and

[Liz]

then knocking that off the list. Not getting that.

[Cindy Cantley]

They're very. They're like $2,000. I mean, a good microwave's two or $300.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

To say we have an old, old microwave behind a cabinet.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Taryn]

Under it's. Ours is under the kitchen island. Like, it's two doors on the kitchen island. That's other storage.

[Cindy Cantley]

And we used to always put them in an island where you couldn't see them. I just. I never liked to see them. So I would put them on the back side of the island. We'd just leave an opening with the bead around it. So it's somewhat built in, but not really. And it just Sit. And then we started doing the appliance cabinet. So now it sits on the, like, eye level on up there. The coffee's down below.

[Liz]

So coffee's down below, microwaves on top,

[Cindy Cantley]

and then whatever else you need in there, Whatever else you use often. The toaster, KitchenAid, whatever.

[Taryn]

Fry Daddy.

[Cindy Cantley]

The Fry Daddy?

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

Your bean pot margarita mixer. Yeah.

[Taryn]

Oh, yeah. Margarita mixer. Gotta keep that up top. Margaritaville.

[Caroline]

Don't let me talk you out of a microwave drawer if that's what your heart says.

[Liz]

No, no, no. My heart is not set on a microwave door at all. I. I actually really don't. The microwave. And. And in the first iteration, Drawings. My architect had the. An open cabinet in next to the stove. And I was just like, I don't want to see it. I don't even want to see it. No.

[Cindy Cantley]

Because that's usually the prettiest part of the kitchen area.

[Liz]

That's like. Yeah. So. So we're either talking appliance cabinet above the coffee, like you recommended, or we are talking in the pantry.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yes.

[Liz]

And putting it. Putting it in.

[Cindy Cantley]

And a lot of it just depends on how often you use it. And that's another those questions I have to ask, you know, and most people don't use them. They heat their coffee. Or if the husband's like, well, I use it 10 times a day to eat my coffee. I don't want it in the pantry. And you're like, okay, then we'll. We'll put it here.

[Liz]

You know, that's pretty much the discussion

[Cindy Cantley]

we're at right now.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Liz]

It's like, I don't want the pantry to just smell like popcorn. It's like, well, don't make popcorn.

[Cindy Cantley]

Well, but I don't know.

[Caroline]

It's either that or the kitchen's going to smell like popcorn. I mean, popcorn is the smell.

[Liz]

Popcorn is.

[Caroline]

If you're making popcorn, popcorn's a delicious smell.

[Taryn]

We're really going to fight smells. It's. It's the microwave fish.

[Cindy Cantley]

Unless you like the popcorn.

[Taryn]

That's true. Burnt popcorn is bad. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry.

[Liz]

Yeah, I think that that's where that. Honestly, burnt popcorn is. Is the. And it is the tipping point on whether or not we keep it in the pantry or not.

[Taryn]

I love this for you.

[Cindy Cantley]

Offices have like a no popcorn popping policies. Like the corporate world. Yeah.

[Taryn]

We had a no fish around here back in the day.

[Caroline]

Yeah, I. Yeah, I mean, that's one

[Taryn]

person who microwaves too often. No, I. I called her out.

[Cindy Cantley]

That's. Yeah, I did.

[Taryn]

I sent an email to the Whole office.

[Cindy Cantley]

That's better.

[Taryn]

Typing.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah. Heaven forbid someone's pregnant.

[Taryn]

Oh my gosh. They would have not been. Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Okay. So appliances.

[Taryn]

Oh yeah. What else would the. Well, we've scooted to appliances. So built in appliances. What are your. What with appliances are a. Yes, no, must do.

[Cindy Cantley]

I think that's a personal preference thing. I mean I don't drink coffee, so I don't push built in coffee makers. We just put one in at our house maybe a month ago. My husband loves it.

[Caroline]

He was built in coffee maker. Okay. That was like the espresso or the espresso thing that is in the wall.

[Cindy Cantley]

It does all kind of frost the milk and everything. And this man drank one cup of coffee a day. Keurig. Now he drinks coffee all day long.

[Taryn]

I would too.

[Cindy Cantley]

All his fancy coffees and all his different beans he has now it's. Within a month we've created this hilarious monster. But it looks nice and I'm good with it.

[Caroline]

What about if you are going to do the drawer front appliances? Are there certain ones that you think are no brainers have to do it? Some that you could give or take.

[Cindy Cantley]

You mean like a warming drawer or.

[Caroline]

No, like, you know, like the cabinet front fridge.

[Cindy Cantley]

Oh yeah.

[Caroline]

A dishwasher.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah, yeah. We typically do wood panels on them.

[Caroline]

On all of them?

[Cindy Cantley]

Yes.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

If they buy the correct appliances.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yes. You don't want to buy. And unfortunately it's. It's the expensive appliances that build in the nicest. But if you don't do that, it just looks like you've stuck a door on the front of something. It's not, you're not fooling anyone that it's not the refrigerator or even the dishwasher.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

But like the sub zeros, the columns, I mean they vent through the toe kick. Now they don't have the grill at the top at all. And it's. They, they built in beautifully.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Taryn]

Yeah. Because they used to have the grill at the top.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yes.

[Taryn]

So you could always tell you're right.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah. And for years we stuck doors on them and thought we were cool. And hiding the refrigerator with the big, you know, three or four foot grill running across the top. And they do still make those. And if people did the stainless and I like that. I mean it's an industrial look and

[Taryn]

if we do want that look.

[Liz]

Yeah, right.

[Cindy Cantley]

It's just different looks.

[Caroline]

It seems like the dishwasher is very cost effective to do the. The drawer front like.

[Cindy Cantley]

Or the panel ready, they call it.

[Taryn]

Panel ready.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Panel ready. Thank you. I Was like. That's not the right word. Yeah. But in the fridge, it's like a whole. Just certain fridges do it.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Whereas dishwashers, it's almost more. They're a lot more optimistic.

[Liz]

Right.

[Caroline]

In terms of the appliance and it

[Cindy Cantley]

depends on where it is in the room. If you don't see it, then don't do it. I mean, it's one of those things. And your dishwasher is going to break probably before you redo your kitchen again. You need to find. You got to match the paint. Hopefully the cabinet people are still in business and can make you a new door to put your new dishwasher. Um, so there. There's some pros and cons to it.

[Liz]

Yeah. It seems like that would be one of the things that your eyes stop seeing if you don't. If you don't do a panel on the front of the dishwasher that you just kind of keep looking past it because you ex. You expect a dishwasher to be there.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah, yeah.

[Liz]

Yes. Yeah. We're looking at the drawer dishwasher because we're just. We're going to be a small two person house in just a couple months.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Liz]

And so you know what?

[Caroline]

I had that in like a apartment that I was in. Had the eight. It's not 18, is it a 20 inch dishwasher? The skinny. There's an 18 or maybe an 18 Bosch. And it was amazing.

[Liz]

Bottles are great.

[Caroline]

Like. Anyway, so I kind of liked having the little one because you're cute. You fill it up every single day and you just run it every single day. Right. Whereas if you're two people, it might take you three or four days to fill up a, like a full size dishwasher. Anyway.

[Cindy Cantley]

I don't know why we can fill ours up and we.

[Taryn]

It's all that coffee.

[Cindy Cantley]

It's all that coffee. Now. Wine glasses and coffee mugs.

[Taryn]

Yeah, wine and coffee.

[Caroline]

Just keep filling it up.

[Liz]

Right. I don't know. I'm sure we could, but for the

[Caroline]

record, I just was like, wow, this is such a small dishwasher, but it's run so well and it fits so much, like, way more than I expected. Anyway.

[Taryn]

All right, did you have any other dishwasher questions?

[Liz]

No, I'm gonna cross questions. No, I don't think so.

[Taryn]

Ranges. Anything. You hate love on ranges.

[Cindy Cantley]

I love ranges Again, because we do so much remodeling in smaller older homes or smaller kitchens in older homes and they take up less room. Yeah. But a lot of people, you know, every now and then people balk about. I don't want to lean over. So it's. And if they don't, they don't. You know, we'll find somewhere. And it also keeps it very symmetrical. I mean, it just. Things lay out well with. When you don't have a stack of ovens, you know, down.

[Caroline]

Right. Like the, the hood with the range, like it's.

[Taryn]

Yeah, yeah. Okay.

[Liz]

That is really nice.

[Taryn]

How about the option of WI fi turn on for all these appliances?

[Cindy Cantley]

I don't understand that, but I'm probably too old to ask that question too. I don't know why I don't need to turn my oven on for my car. Has the food been in the oven since I left for work that morning? I don't know.

[Caroline]

Yeah, I don't get that. Okay.

[Taryn]

I just wanted to ask what if she was like, no, I know I would only work for people. I think with OCD of like, is it off?

[Liz]

Yeah, yeah, that's pretty much what that's for is to turn it off. You can't turn. For the most part I don't think that you can turn it on remotely because of safety issues.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah, for some reason I think you can. But I don't know. I don't. I haven't paid enough attention to that because I'm just like, I don't understand why anyone wants that.

[Caroline]

I think more too about having a.

[Cindy Cantley]

But I don't even understand Teslas. Like, my son was driving a Tesla the other day. Like they told him to take it home for the day to see if he liked it. Which I can't believe they do that to a 20 something year old boy. But. And, and it was frightening to me to even be riding in there with him.

[Caroline]

Uh huh.

[Cindy Cantley]

And he's just sitting there like this, you know, just, you know, and you're like, this is. I don't know. It just scared me.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

I can't. I barely used cruise control. Like I have to be in complete control when I'm driving. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Liz]

No, yeah, I can't do that either. But okay, so turning on the oven remotely, I, I thought that would be a good thing. Like if I was driving home and with my groceries and I was like, the oven. Preheat the oven. Yeah, but no, my, my oven won't do it now.

[Caroline]

Yeah, there's.

[Cindy Cantley]

So what if you have a wreck?

[Caroline]

Oh wait, you have one now. Like you have a. Yeah, I have my.

[Liz]

I have my oven hooked up to an app.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

Okay.

[Liz]

Yeah. But I, but it won't let me turn it remotely.

[Caroline]

I mean, it's probably.

[Cindy Cantley]

I'm sorry. It's totally fine.

[Caroline]

Which, like, what if someone hacked your. Your oven and then.

[Liz]

Oh, my goodness.

[Taryn]

I guess so.

[Liz]

Oh, my gosh.

[Cindy Cantley]

And the crazy people.

[Caroline]

Okay, y', all. We kind of move on. I know.

[Liz]

Keep going.

[Taryn]

Countertops.

[Cindy Cantley]

Oh, no.

[Caroline]

Sorry.

[Liz]

Oh, yes.

[Taryn]

I feel like countertops are, again, personal choice. But what are your favorites and what's just timeless?

[Caroline]

What?

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

Marble.

[Caroline]

Marble.

[Cindy Cantley]

Marble.

[Caroline]

And then certain etch. Certain, like, sealants or something that any secrets to. Or just live and let live and etching, I think.

[Cindy Cantley]

Live and let live. And, I mean, there's nothing prettier to me than old marble. I mean, you go to Europe, and there's nothing more beautiful than that. I mean, it's hundreds of years old. It's a rock. It's not near as fragile as people think it is. And I have so many people that constantly. Well, my builder said I shouldn't do marble. I'm like, does your builder have marble in this house? You know, I've had marble for almost 30 years in my house, and it ages beautifully, and. And I'm not careful with it. It can chip, and there are a couple of chips. I mean, I have a chip in my bathroom, and I don't know how it got chipped in there. I mean, you understand it getting chipped around your sink or, you know, something, but it. I don't know. It's not like it's a different color underneath. It's real stone. It's.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Like, who cares?

[Cindy Cantley]

I know. It tells a story.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

But.

[Caroline]

But people.

[Cindy Cantley]

There are people who can't live with that. And if they are, then, you know, I had someone tell me one time that her maid would quit if she got horrible. And I'm like, okay. I mean, how do you even respond to that? It's like, well, let's not do that.

[Caroline]

Any others that you like? Like, a lot of people love soapstone, which I think is really. Any other things that you feel like.

[Cindy Cantley]

I think it's very pretty. It's a little bit more maintenance in marble. And one perk of marble now is we're getting into such crazy colors and movement with marbles, which I love. And you don't see it near as much on that. If you have a really white background, like Carrera or something like that, you're going to see a lot more stains and rings on it. Yeah, But I also. We've been in our house, I think, 17 years now, and I have a white Calcutta marble And I'll clean it with Clorox, which makes stone people cringe. But again, it's a rock and it's. It's not. It gets it so white again and.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

What do you have, Darren?

[Taryn]

I have quartz. I've been happy with it. I mean, in the sense of like, I don't worry about pot. I don't worry about anything. And I think having two boy two boys plus a husband in the house, it's felt. It felt like the right move for us. Especially because I went green cabinets. So I wanted. It was. It was pre crazy or the good stones. Because I feel like I would have definitely gone crazier with the stones.

[Cindy Cantley]

And now the good stones are crazy expensive.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

I got a price back on a very normal sized kitchen. It was three slabs, so that's not a huge kitchen. And that was their backsplashes too. And it was $90,000. I mean, when they called, when they sent me the price I called, I was like, I can't even tell them this. I mean, countertops should not cost more than cabinets costs.

[Taryn]

Wow.

[Cindy Cantley]

So Marvel's gotten congratulations doing your kitchen right now. Because I don't know what's going on with it. We did reselect and it got it down to about 50, which is still. I mean, countertops used to be 10. Well, they used to be 5 and then 10 and then maybe 15 and.

[Caroline]

Wow. God.

[Taryn]

Are people doing thousand dollars granite anymore for countertops?

[Cindy Cantley]

We've never done granite. I don't know why. We literally went from Corian to marble back in the day. I just didn't love it. It was very polka dotted. It was very busy. It was brown.

[Caroline]

That's all. Fair.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

No, I did it and mine was very black. Like it was pretty solid black.

[Cindy Cantley]

And there.

[Taryn]

So it was.

[Cindy Cantley]

There is some black now that looks a lot like soapstone. That every now and then we'll do that. Just because it's so practical, you cannot hurt it. Soapstones. You have to oil it. You have to. When you oil it, it looks so pretty, but it marks it. Okay, what.

[Liz]

What is the most economical and beautiful stone asking for a friend?

[Cindy Cantley]

It depends on where you shop for it here. Yeah, I mean it depends.

[Caroline]

Like is. Would a. Oh my gosh. What's the marble that's like not. Not Calcutta, but. Oh my God. What's the other one that starts with a C. Carrera. Carrera thing.

[Cindy Cantley]

That's probably the least expensive. Okay.

[Caroline]

Like a Carrera marble would be.

[Cindy Cantley]

It's very gray background which most people want A white background and.

[Caroline]

Okay. Ah, yeah. So if it goes with your.

[Taryn]

Do people often start with the countertop? Are they picking the countertop?

[Cindy Cantley]

I always start with the countertop first because you can get any paint color.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

I think you need to fall in love with the marble and.

[Taryn]

Yeah, that's a great.

[Cindy Cantley]

Pick your color from that.

[Taryn]

What about doing.

[Caroline]

What about doing the countertop and the island? Separate. Separate stones like some people do.

[Liz]

Like a color stones.

[Caroline]

Well, like a dip like a butcher block on the island and a. Or something. Some combination. You know, I feel like people did.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah, I mean I think that's fine. And we do the island. A different wood or a different color or it, it just. It depends on what they want. I don't have a strong opinion about it. Only time I do. I love walnut. I think it's such a pretty rich wood and we do natural walnut. You just seal it and so it's just the prettiest color and it's all hand selected so the grains are pretty. But if they have a kitchen table in their kitchen, then I wouldn't do that. Cause you don't want the woods competing and.

[Caroline]

Yeah, right.

[Taryn]

I did do that as well. We did the walnut in our back cabinetry and it's really pretty.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah, walnut's pretty.

[Taryn]

I don't know where. I don't know what price point, but yeah, it's pretty.

[Liz]

I don't either yet. I'm. I'm still in the dream phase.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

So that's good. Yeah, that's good.

[Liz]

It's all wonderful.

[Caroline]

Now what about the. So how if you were going to do the backsplash matching your countertop and is that basically doubling the amount of slabs. Slabs you're.

[Cindy Cantley]

You're getting or it wouldn't double it, but it would. Yeah.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

And sometimes we don't. You know, if people and everyone's on a budget. I don't care what price house you're working in. There's always a budget. It. A lot of times you just have some left. So you might as well use it or use it somewhere or you know, if you have a kids bath. Because you're either gonna. You're buying the slabs, they're either gonna put it in your basement for you or they're gonna take it back to their shop and they'll eventually sell it to someone who's doing a vanity or something. You know, it's. So if you, if you wanna put it just behind the range, if you have that much left over but your budget won't allow you to buy the rest of the room, then put it there, and then do tile everywhere else. It's fun to mix it. It's a little more interesting.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

It's a good reminder, too, of, like,

[Cindy Cantley]

what to do with the extra. I know.

[Liz]

Use it.

[Taryn]

And is that a trend right now, too? Is just running the cabinet.

[Cindy Cantley]

It has been for probably about 10 years. We're just starting to do tile again, actually.

[Taryn]

Okay.

[Caroline]

I love the marble on the back. I think, like, sometimes when you're. When things splatter on the. The backsplash. To me, it seems easier to clean a solid piece of stone versus having those little grooves from the grout you. But I suppose it's not like. Yeah, crazy. But it just seems like.

[Cindy Cantley]

Well, it's always that. You know, we always. When we're laying out the slabs for the kitchen, we always do the prettiest piece behind the range and then the second prettiest on the island, and then you just fill in from there.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

Because one's horizontal and one's vertical.

[Caroline]

So do your ver.

[Taryn]

Okay.

[Caroline]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah. And in a perfect world, it. The veins match going up. You may have to buy another slab to do it that way. And that's something else kind of crazy, too, and that people don't realize that, you know, one person may say, you need two slabs, and their price is $10,000 less because they're piecing it all together. And when you. And when you get it in there, your veins go into different directions. And people. Clients don't know that, so.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

So many good things questions that I

[Caroline]

even came in with.

[Cindy Cantley]

Sorry.

[Taryn]

I know we're running out of time, but what about flooring? Like, what are people putting in there? Are they running the hardwoods or.

[Cindy Cantley]

Usually hardwood. What we do is just usually hard. Yeah.

[Taryn]

Okay. Because growing up, I feel like it was always. The kitchen was always tiled.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Liz]

Tile or laminate tile or.

[Taryn]

Yeah, yeah. It was always. It was a separate flooring in the kitchen.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

It was like.

[Cindy Cantley]

And really old houses had pine floors because it was cheaper, which. It's that opposite now. Pine costs more than oak now, so. Yeah. I mean, even if it's old house and you start pulling it up and there's pine down there that hasn't been damaged over the years, and use it.

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

And I love painted floors. I think that's fine. It's not strangely durable, but it looks great.

[Caroline]

And I love wood floors in a kitchen.

[Cindy Cantley]

I mean, it's easier to stand on. It's more forgiving if you Drop something there.

[Caroline]

And there are already so many, like, hard surfaces in the kitchen with your. All of your stone and your appliances and stuff, that it's kind of nice to have that more. That warmth.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yes, yes. Yeah.

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Okay, what's next on your list, Aaron?

[Taryn]

We did. I mean, we hit a lot. Oh, hardware. What is trending in hardware is it pulls knobs. What are. Or is there no trend?

[Caroline]

It's just you do a combination, like.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah, I always do a combination.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

And I love back plates. And I love. You know, we do truly pretend like we're still living in the south of France. And do the little fake keys and do the tassel on it.

[Caroline]

Where would you put the fake key? Like, is that on, like, the china cabinet or.

[Cindy Cantley]

Okay.

[Taryn]

Okay. Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

Somewhere. It's not everywhere.

[Caroline]

You took the drawer.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

Yeah.

[Liz]

Oh, that's sweet.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

So if you're laying out your hardware on your. In your kitchen and you're deciding between poles and knobs, where would you put what? Like, are there certain applications that make more sense?

[Cindy Cantley]

Well, and I think. And. And there is no rhyme or reason to what I do, but for some reason, on the top drawers, I always do knobs. And then the two drawers below, I'll do a pull.

[Caroline]

Oh, I love that. Okay.

[Liz]

Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

And we use those Bouvet pulls forever, those drop pulls. And it was so funny. It kind of looked like smiley faces for some reason.

[Caroline]

Like a.

[Cindy Cantley]

Not intended.

[Caroline]

Like a bend pull kind of.

[Cindy Cantley]

No, but I do like Ben pulls, too.

[Taryn]

Someone with two plates and a swing.

[Caroline]

Oh, yes, yes, yes. With that sound. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Taryn]

Okay. With the sound.

[Caroline]

I hate that sound. I don't know why. There's just something about it. I can just, like, hear it now.

[Taryn]

What about when the drawers are really wide and people do two knobs?

[Caroline]

You know what?

[Liz]

Because I know exactly the sound you're talking about. Sorry. Insert sound effect here.

[Caroline]

Yes. No, you're totally fine.

[Taryn]

You know, you're totally. I hear the sound in my head. You're right.

[Caroline]

Imagine how. Okay. Do you. You know that sound of the cabinet doors shutting and, like, think about all the sounds in the kitchen? I just. The idea of adding a knob with a sound makes me crazy.

[Taryn]

Oh. Slow, close hinges. Speaking of.

[Cindy Cantley]

Right. Yes.

[Taryn]

That should be a must as well.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yes, yes.

[Taryn]

As Caroline just said, that especially with

[Cindy Cantley]

inset cabinets, because they closed themselves right where before you had to go back and push them one more time.

[Caroline]

Yeah, Sorry.

[Cindy Cantley]

But I think. I think I kind of have fun with hardware. I mean, I think it's. I mean, it's that. Yeah. I hate to say it, but the jewelry of the kitchen. But it kind of is. And you can spend whatever you want on it.

[Taryn]

Yeah, but that is a wild price range.

[Cindy Cantley]

It is a wide range.

[Taryn]

Right. Like you. You can get real up there.

[Liz]

Right?

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah. It's not unusual for appliance pools to be. Not even anything real special. They're three to six hundred dollars a pool.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

So it's.

[Liz]

Wow.

[Taryn]

So then if you do them on your set from experience. I wanted it on the dishwasher as well. And then I was like, but then I gotta buy a third one.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

Oh, gosh.

[Cindy Cantley]

You gotta buy the wood panel from the cabinet people and then the pool. I mean, it easily adds a thousand dollars, probably 2000 almost to the dishwasher.

[Taryn]

I think I do like a lot, though, hardware wise, is when they change wherever the trash can is, knowing that that is a. Yeah, yeah. I like that hardware being different because I visually need that cue. It's the ones who really want it hidden where you are like, hey, so which one's your.

[Cindy Cantley]

Where's your.

[Caroline]

Like, I gotta open every.

[Liz]

Right.

[Taryn]

Yeah. Like, I don't want to open all yours. To find out where the trash can is.

[Cindy Cantley]

Which should be next to the sink.

[Taryn]

Okay.

[Cindy Cantley]

And usually have a pull on it. Not an odd. Cause it's used so much, it needs to have a pull.

[Caroline]

Okay, see, well, now all the dishwash washer or the. The trash can cabinets are like the dishwasher size.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

And so that is really confusing because you're like, wait, I see two. One's the dishwasher, one's the trash.

[Cindy Cantley]

But like, which one's which? And the dishwasher is supposed to be on the left if you're right handed. People always argue that with me.

[Taryn]

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Cindy Cantley]

Because you hold the dish in your left hand and rinse it or whatever, and then you don't switch hands to put it.

[Caroline]

Oh, okay, I like that. That is actually so right.

[Cindy Cantley]

But everybody thinks it's supposed to be on the right. And if it's been on the right for 25 years, then keep it on the right. But, you know, but technically, if you're right handed, the dishwasher goes on the left, the trash on the right. Okay.

[Taryn]

Mine is made for me. Then are you left the opposite. I'm left handed and mine's the opposite.

[Cindy Cantley]

I've heard of.

[Caroline]

You're a lefty.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah, yeah.

[Taryn]

But I never thought about it. It just.

[Caroline]

For us.

[Taryn]

It really was. Again, somebody drew it for us and we're like, here and here. And we're like, okay. Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

No, most people think the opposite. I even have people argue with me, and I tell them, Kitchen Design 101, I learned.

[Taryn]

You were like, I went to school for this. I can tell you.

[Cindy Cantley]

But if you want it that way, it's fine with me. And a lot of times I do keep it how it's been, because it's just what you're accustomed to.

[Taryn]

We did an extra, you know, the size of my kitchen. It isn't petite, but it isn't large.

[Cindy Cantley]

Large.

[Taryn]

But we did do a second garage or, sorry, trash can, and it's just a single unit and that I really liked because they're on opposite ends of the kitchen. Like, the sink's over here, and this one's over here. It's near where you enter the house. So, like, it's near the fridge, and one's near the sink. Because you do want the sink. One. For sure.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yes.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

So I don't know with your design list, but I will say that has been really. I. Other than taking out more trash.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah, well, yeah, that too, but one more trash bag.

[Taryn]

But they were gonna. We were gonna fill up the other one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Liz]

It kind of goes back to, like, the theory of, like, put your organization items where you actually are.

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Liz]

And. Yeah, so that.

[Taryn]

Yeah, that's why that one makes sense.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

And kitchen. I mean, there's so much thought goes into a kitchen. It really. It's. It's frightening what the things we dwell on and ask, the questions we ask. And if. If two people cook, you know, you have to think differently and. Cause does. You know, someone might make a salad every night. The husband may make a salad. Not mine, but. But some of them do.

[Caroline]

Or.

[Cindy Cantley]

Or, you know, or they're grilling, and so you have a grill area for them to put their things. And then it's. It's. Or if you have kids and you want them to help you cook, then you. You think of different things. And. Yeah.

[Caroline]

Yeah, it seems like you could get. I mean, there's so many. Like, we started with. There's so many accoutrements. But also. Keep it simple, too. Yeah. I mean, and. But you can drop yourself crazy.

[Cindy Cantley]

You just have to think of. And I think so many people think of their life's gonna be different in this new kitchen, and it's really not. I mean, it's. You know, we're gonna redo the kitchen. We're gonna entertain every weekend. It's like, how often did you entertain now, and they're like, well, twice a year, and it's like, you're gonna do that.

[Caroline]

Don't design your kitchen for dream cells designed for how you truly live.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Your life is not gonna change that much. I mean, it's gonna be prettier, and you may have people over more, but you still need to. To design it for how you. You. You and your. Your people live. Right.

[Liz]

Yeah. That is really, really great advice.

[Caroline]

It does always seem to lead back to the same point. Every.

[Taryn]

Every wonderful designer we talk to is

[Caroline]

like, how do you live?

[Taryn]

Who are you? What are you into? What do you gravitate towards?

[Caroline]

You're not going to be someone else

[Taryn]

in a new home.

[Caroline]

Yeah. Like, you are who you are.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah, I know.

[Caroline]

That's a great way to wrap up, though.

[Taryn]

You are who you are.

[Caroline]

Good luck. I know.

[Cindy Cantley]

I know.

[Caroline]

We could probably talk for another hour, so.

[Cindy Cantley]

People love to talk about kitchens. It's so funny.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

It was very good timing on my part back in the day.

[Taryn]

I think you did. I think the kitchen again, though, it's the center of the home these days.

[Caroline]

There's no. It's a huge investment.

[Taryn]

And it's your biggest investment.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yes.

[Liz]

Yeah. You don't really realize how emotionally attached you are to certain things, too, until you start to redesign your kitchen.

[Taryn]

Yeah.

[Caroline]

What are your two biggest takeaways from this conversation?

[Liz]

Honestly? Keep it simple.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah.

[Liz]

Especially with the cabinets. That's. I keep getting. My Instagram feed is filled with all of these, like, fancy designs for kitchen cabinets and kitchen drawers and all these different places to. But. But as you were talking, just keeping the functionality simple because once it gets off track or gets broken or, you know, little hands or whatever it is,

[Cindy Cantley]

it gets a lot of use.

[Liz]

Yeah. Everything gets a lot of use.

[Cindy Cantley]

That's usually how you can tell where the trash can is. It's the cabinet that's chipping all the chips.

[Caroline]

Yeah, yeah.

[Taryn]

Yes, it is that one. It's always that one.

[Cindy Cantley]

I know, I know. It's the most used cabinet in the kitchen. It's the only one we ever usually have to go back and touch up.

[Caroline]

How fun.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Taryn]

Now you know.

[Liz]

Excellent. This has been.

[Caroline]

Oh, my gosh. So thank you so much.

[Cindy Cantley]

Thank you. Thanks for making it easy. We just talked.

[Taryn]

I didn't.

[Cindy Cantley]

I was completely unaware of any of this.

[Caroline]

That's good. That's what we like. That's what we like to hear. Okay, Cindy, tell everyone, though, where they can find you, follow you, and see your work.

[Cindy Cantley]

The Instagram account is Cantley Tolman and

[Caroline]

T O L L M A N

[Cindy Cantley]

T O U L M I N O U. Sorry. Yes. Or just Cindy Cantley.

[Caroline]

Okay.

[Liz]

Yeah.

[Cindy Cantley]

Cindy with a Y. Cindy with a.

[Caroline]

Well, two Y's.

[Cindy Cantley]

Yeah. T Y and D Y.

[Caroline]

All right, well, thank you so much.

[Cindy Cantley]

Thank you.

[Caroline]

And that's our show. You can find all of the show notes on our blog, howtodecorate.com podcast to

[Taryn]

send in a decorating dilemma, email your questions to podcasts at ballarddesigns. Net so we can help you with your space.

[Caroline]

And of course, be sure to follow us on social media at Ballard Designs.

[Liz]

Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcast, so you never miss an episode. And please leave us a review. We'd love to hear your feedback.

[Caroline]

Until next time, happy decorating.