Podcast Summary: How to Feel Alive

Episode: Fun at Work: How Can We Help You?

Host: Catherine Price
Guest: Devin McNulty, Co-founder & “Brain Tender in Chief” of Funmentum Labs
Air Date: May 3, 2024

Episode Overview

This first installment in the "Fun at Work" series brings Catherine Price together with Devin McNulty of Funmentum Labs to answer real listener questions about cultivating more fun—alongside creativity, productivity, and connection—at work (and, as one question illustrates, at home). Drawing on research, experience, and a shared fondness for practical psychology and workplace experiments, Catherine and Devin emphasize how fun can solve common challenges and reframe difficult situations. They break down their definition of “real fun,” address audience conundrums, and share actionable, sometimes counterintuitive, advice for anyone seeking more joyful engagement in everyday life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Fun: The Framework (01:51–05:57)

Catherine’s “True Fun” Venn Diagram:

• Playfulness: Not just playing games; more about the attitude of lightheartedness, laughter, trying new things, and not taking yourself too seriously.
• Connection: Shared experiences with others; most fun stories involve other people.
• Flow: The “in the zone” state—active engagement, losing track of time because you’re immersed in what you’re doing.
  • “If we can fill the moments of our lives with more playfulness, connection, or flow, our lives are going to be better. And that's true in a personal context and it's also true in a professional context.” —Catherine (04:36)

Fun at Work Is Not Frivolous:

• Devin makes clear that fun isn’t just about external outings or one-off happy hours.
• Integrating playfulness, connection, and flow into normal work tasks has real impact on productivity, decision-making, and team morale.

2. Listener Question #1: Getting Colleagues to Meet Deadlines (06:10–17:42)

The Challenge

• From Christy, a nonprofit project manager repeatedly frustrated by late, incomplete, or inaccurate submissions from colleagues. She loves her job and team but struggles as the only one prioritizing grant compliance. Remote work adds to the disconnect and “fun-killing” aspect.

Devin’s Solutions

• Focus on Bright Spots: Borrowing from the book Switch (Chip & Dan Heath), start by identifying team members who are delivering on time. Interview them, learn their strategies, and spotlight their contributions.

  • “We oftentimes have a negative news bias... But if you actually look at, hey, what is working well... get into the details, find some of those bright spots, and then ask, are there any insights or tips or clues that I can try to scale...” —Devin (08:43)

• Leverage Social Proof with Playfulness:

  • Rather than highlighting lateness, frame communications to emphasize that “62% of employees are submitting on time!” and publicly thank those team members.
  • Add playful elements: create a leaderboard, mention names, celebrate wins on Slack or Zoom.
    • “You are subconsciously, not even that subtly, I guess, broadcasting that like all the rest of you. It'd be really great if you got this on time too.” —Catherine (16:46)

• Connect Actions to Real People:

  • Make the impact tangible: explain whom lateness affects within the organization (e.g., Maria in accounting).
  • Use gentle humor and vulnerability to remind people their actions have real consequences, but avoid persistent negativity.

• Make Reward and Recognition Visible:

  • Even without formal rewards, playful public praise, shout-outs, or Slack memes add motivation and lighten the mood for everyone.

Catherine’s Input

• Parenting and work have overlap: praising what goes right, rather than focusing on negatives, motivates behavior change.
• “Notice what's going well and highlight that. Because then it motivates everybody to live up to that standard instead of setting this tone of negativity...” (11:55)

Takeaway Review

• Celebrate and scale what’s working.
• Make consequences and empathy visible.
• Bring levity and small rewards to task tracking.

3. Listener Question #2: Finding Fun in Unrewarding Routines (17:42–24:32)

The Challenge

• From Ginger, a stay-at-home and homeschooling mom cooking three meals a day for family members with drastically different dietary needs—finding it impossible to make kitchen time fun despite trying music, classes, kids’ involvement, and more.

Devin’s Perspective

• “Remove some pressure.” Instead of endlessly trying to innovate, streamline by standardizing:

  • Identify 2–3 go-to meals for each person.
  • Batch cook or put cooking on autopilot, freeing brain space while enjoying a podcast or audiobook.
  • “Use some of that cooking time for my own fun and delight... That gets me into a little bit of a flow.” —Devin (19:23)

• Boundaries: If family wants more variety, it’s time for them to contribute more to planning and prep.

Catherine’s Perspective

• Validate: “That is work!” and acknowledges the emotional and mental load.
• Borrow from the book Fair Play (Eve Rodsky): Break down “the work” as conception, planning, and execution.
  • Delegate planning or shopping where possible; minimize decisions for yourself.
  • Redirect creativity to cooking meals for yourself and let the rest be routine.
  • If you can’t make it fun, make it as easy as possible—and find fun elsewhere.
    • “If you could just make it on autopilot so you didn't have to make decisions about the food, I think that might free yourself up to feel a little less pressured to begin with.” —Catherine (21:23)

Takeaway

• It’s okay to make routines “just fine” and find fun in other parts of life.
• Seek small liberations and moments of personal flow even in thankless chores.

4. Listener Question #3: Toxic Leadership vs. “Fun at Work” (24:32–29:32)

The Challenge

• From Andrew: How to reconcile workplaces where a leader loudly promotes “fun” but privately berates employees, creating a demoralizing mismatch between public messaging and private treatment.

Devin’s Take

• Authenticity is crucial—no amount of “fun” programming compensates for toxic behavior from the top.
• Active Listening & Humility: Truly listen to employees, learn even from junior colleagues, and show self-deprecating humor.
  • “No matter how smart or experienced anybody is, we are wrong at least 50% of the time about everything... just having a little bit of that, taking a step back...” (27:10)
• Cites Humor, Seriously (Stanford professors): Humor and vulnerability are powerful tools for leaders.
• Ultimately, employees can choose to leave toxic workplaces.
  • “It’s about encouraging playfulness, connection and flow. It's not about doing these single one off events but, but then spending 99% of your time in this time frame [berating people].” (26:28)

Catherine’s Closing Note

• Previews the next episode featuring Rosalyn from Citi, an example of a leader who actively lives out “fun” principles with her team.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I define fun as the confluence of three factors: playfulness, connection, and flow.” —Catherine (02:26)
• “We're not talking about something that's frivolous... using playfulness, connection and flow in the process of completing weekly work tasks is what I'm truly interested in.” —Devin (05:33)
• “Don't just focus on the negative and all the problem people. Find the positive and figure out how to scale those bright spots.” —Devin (17:21)
• “It's crazy... how much of the parenting world intersects with the work world.” —Devin (12:55)
• “If you could just handle this and enjoy it even 5% more, I do think life would be easier.” —Ginger, paraphrased by Catherine (17:42)
• “No matter how smart or experienced anybody is, we are wrong at least 50% of the time about everything.” —Devin (27:10)
• “Notice what's going well and highlight that.” —Catherine (11:55)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:00–05:57 — Introducing the guests, purpose of episode, and the definition of fun
• 06:10–17:42 — Addressing Christy’s work deadline/engagement issue: positive psychology, social proof, and playful accountability
• 17:42–24:32 — Tackling Ginger’s kitchen/cooking fatigue: routines, boundaries, and freeing up mental/emotional space
• 24:32–29:32 — Authenticity and leadership: when “fun” is a mask for toxicity, and the real impact of behavior over branding
• 29:32–32:10 — Wrap-up, call for more listener questions, preview of the next episode

Conclusion & Next Steps

Catherine and Devin end with a call to action: listeners are encouraged to submit more workplace questions to future “Fun at Work” mailbag episodes. Both reiterate that while they don’t have “all the answers,” experimenting with fun, noticing what’s working, and leaning into playfulness and connection can offer surprising—and practical—results.

Want to dig deeper or ask your own question? Join Catherine’s Fun Squad or follow both hosts’ Substack newsletters for more resources and future Q&As.