← How to Get a Girlfriend with Connell Barrett
How to Get a Girlfriend with Connell Barrett
3 Hidden Reasons Why Women Lose Interest in You—and How to Keep Them Attracted Long-Term! with Johnny Cassell
01:05:33
Have you ever had things start great with a woman only for her to suddenly pull away and say, “I’m not looking to date right now”? The truth is, that’s probably her polite way of saying, “I’m just not interested in you.” In this episode, renowned...
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- [00:00]
A
You're displaying yourself as this wild, untamable sort of tiger and you get softer and softer and softer until you turn into like a tubby domestic house cat. That's when you lose attraction.
- [00:28]
B
Welcome back to, to the how to Get a Girlfriend podcast. I am your host, dating coach Connell Barrett. I am here to help you flirt with confidence, get more dates and get a fantastic girlfriend and do it with authenticity. No toxic manipulation bs, none of that. And today I want to talk about maybe not just how to get a great girlfriend, but how to have a great relationship with yourself, which is going to help you attract a great girlfriend. And we're going to talk about that and other things with my guest today. His name is Johnny Cassell. Johnny is a London based dating and lifestyle strategist. He's also a student of human behavior and he specializes in confidence and relationship building. He's got over a decade of experience working with high net worth clients of all shapes and sizes in the London area and he's a big expert in the world of dating and personal development. He's also the author of a book called Elite Seduction and you might have seen him in the Sunday Times, Sky News, BBC Radio, if you're familiar with life over on the other side of the pond. And he's also on Instagram and YouTube. And you can learn more about Johnny at johnnycasell.com that's C-A-S-S-E-L-L.com Johnny, welcome to the how to Get a Girlfriend podcast. I charge hourly and I'm very expensive, but I'm open to it. Yeah, thanks for being here. I'm really, I'm always psyched to talk to another male expert because there's a lot of things we have in common and there's probably going to be some fun things that we differ on or just have complimentary views on. So, Johnny, I want to start by asking you something we were talking about before we started recording, which is the idea of making sure that a single guy first has a good relationship with himself before he finds the right girlfriend, the right woman to have for his partner in a relationship. Can you elaborate on that? Why is it important to first be good with you before you attract a girlfriend?
- [02:24]
A
Well, first of all, I think it's completely unreasonable to be asking for the best of someone else if we haven't got to the best place for ourselves. So what does that mean? I mean, if we're in a bit of a hiatus right now, we've come out of a long term relationship, we May have lost parts of ourself that gave us joy, right? We dedicated our whole life to the relationship. If there's kids involved, you know, there's that too. Work, you know, has took its toll on us. We forgot about the things that give us joy. So a great hack would be to think, okay, what are those things that actually lift me up, make me feel good, give me that euphoric moment in my life, whether it be music, sports, hanging out with friends. It could be simply just sitting down, watching, watching a film that used to watch for nostalgia. Whatever those things are, take the time to reconnect with them. I mean, the other day, you know, I went out for a walk by myself, right? And I think there's a lot to be said on actually taking the time to take yourself out on a date, right? There's a lot of peace that comes with that, especially if you live a busy lifestyle. So we all know the work that we need to do as well. A lot of us just kind of put it off. There was a great post fight talk that I saw from Conor McGregor when he was having a lot of his fights, and it was one of the fights that he lost. And you know what he's like. He plays the role, he plays the character. He's a cocky, arrogant guy. It sells tickets, right? And he said, his quote was, yeah, we all know what the work is we need to do. We just need to get on and do it. And he himself said, I didn't put the work in and I let myself down, I let my team down, I let everyone around, I let the fans down. So take stock of where you are and work out what those things are. To be the 2.0 version of yourself.
- [04:27]
B
I love that idea. Taking yourself out for a date, finally a date. I know that won't end in the friend zone for me.
- [04:36]
A
Impossible, right?
- [04:39]
B
I know I'm going to get lucky. I know it. Talk a little. That's a fascinating concept. Why does that help a man with the women he meets? Is it that women can sense a guy who just feels good about himself?
- [04:54]
A
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, there's a lot that comes from it. I mean, if I was to think about that day where I took myself out for a walk, you know, I'm being more observational. I'm enjoying the small things like grabbing a coffee, walking through the markets, having a bit of a back and forth with the shopkeepers, maybe the charity workers or the people of the food stall. Just seeing if I can find opportunities to have humor between individuals. And I'm just having a good time by myself. And I think if we look at our interactions and you have this problem of seeking for approval, then this is a good exercise for you because it proves to yourself that you can go out and. And just have a good time. You're amusing yourself and inviting other people into that amusement. That's attractive.
- [05:46]
B
Yeah, yeah. One of my very first coaches helped me approach women get really good at quote unquote, old school pickup. And I remember he used to always talk about, you want to amuse yourself. You got to draw your positive state from inside of you. Because if a woman feels like you're relying on her to make you happy, that can be repellent to women, right?
- [06:07]
A
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. We've got to be the value adder. You know, we've got. We've got to be looking at ways to add value, whether it's our energy, you know, like where we are, you know, on the hierarchy in our careers, in life.
- [06:23]
B
To me, that's the essence of masculinity. Or one of the essences of masculinity is giving. And in fact, I saw a video you did right before we hopped on. I was doing a little research because I try to be prepped, and you did a video, it ran somewhere on YouTube where you said, the masculine is about giving and the feminine is about receiving. That's nature. And what I'm hearing you say, and feel free to elaborate and correct me if I'm wrong, is the masculine is giving. And that's a very generous place to come from, right?
- [06:52]
A
It is, it is. And of course, like, if. If we are doing all those things, you know, like going out, making the money, you know, taking care of the home, you know, doing as much as we can so she doesn't have to adopt masculine traits, then you are going to experience a woman that is truly in her feminine. The more strain you have on yourself and then you kind of have to cooperate the household, then she's going to adapt more masculine traits. So it's just, I mean, that obviously exists, right? And it's a polarity in all of us that we have, you know, the masculine and the feminine. But if you truly want a woman to be completely in a feminine, then you have to adopt the masculine traits.
- [07:44]
B
How do we. How does a man convey those traits in a way that is authentic, genuine to who he is at the same time, good quote, unquote strategy that women notice.
- [07:58]
A
I think one thing we can all do right is a simple little task, is when you, when you next go to a restaurant, it's, you know, taking the leadership of maybe ordering the food, right? Like asking, would you mind if I could. If I have a few suggestions, would you mind if I take the. Do the order. Cool. Like, that's attractive. She's being led. You're leading her to the experience, right? When it comes to dates, like, we know this, like, we have this on day one, right? When we meet a woman, we get a number we want to prove to him. Like with a man, right? So you're saying, look, okay, meet me next Wednesday, 8 o'clock at this restaurant. So straight away, she's okay. This guy's, you know, he's taking care of things. That's attractive. That's cool. He's got it. But then what slowly seems to happen is, you know, we get softer and softer and softer in the relationship. So it's like you're displaying yourself as this wild, untamable sort of tiger and you get softer and softer and softer until you turn into a little like a tubby domestic house cat. That's when you lose attraction. It happens to the best of us, man. Like, it happens to the best. Because, because things, things are nice, right? Things are nice, Things are good. Things are going well. You don't. I don't necessarily need to go out and be the planner. Once you got the girl that the game doesn't stop. It's just a different game.
- [09:27]
B
Yeah. You start off as a lion, you end up Garfield.
- [09:30]
A
Exactly.
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B
And you wonder why she's, she's losing interest.
- [09:35]
A
It's, it's true. I got, I got a client and he had a bit of a hiatus coming out of a relationship. And then I picked him back up and we literally just had one session. I gave him some suggestions and he went onto the social activity, met a girl, and he was just getting back into his fitness, right. Because he wanted to be, you know, more masculine looking. He wanted to look more attractive. And I'm keeping my eye on this relationship and I'm starting to see Garfield sort of make. Rear his head out a little bit again, you know, so it's like, come.
- [10:10]
B
On, guys, Garfield, come out for him.
- [10:13]
A
Well, it's obviously, you know, just being a bit sloppy with the diet, being a bit sloppy with, you know, working, working out.
- [10:20]
B
Lasagna, coffee.
- [10:22]
A
Yes, yes. Get a bit too comfortable at home, right. Forgetting about the things that made you attractive in the first place. Right. And also as well, which I think is a, is a big attraction killer, is not having your own life. Right. So we have we've. We got back in touch with ourselves whilst we're single, we got the relationship, and then we ditch that part of ourselves again. Right. So again, it goes back to the first point about reconnecting with the person that you were you lost touch of. Keep it. Yeah, keep it there. Because the only source of joy, if the only source of joy is coming from your relationship, you're doomed. You really are. Because all it takes is one hiccup there, one argument, and it feels like your whole world's falling apart. But if you've got solace in community and activities events, you know, you've got access to these things, then it's. It's going to feel less hard on you.
- [11:19]
B
I just had a bit of a flashback to something that happened to me, man, 20 years ago.
- [11:26]
A
Yeah.
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B
I think you just helped me have a breakthrough. I realized now. So when I first started working on my dating life, it was 2005. That was not when I actively said, connell, you suck at dating. You got to get good at this. And one of the first incredible women I connected with, her name is Lorraine Badass, amazing woman. She's a doctor now. And when we met, I was this amazing Planner. I was Mr. Lion, Mr. Tiger, because I'd kind of read that's what you need to be, but it wasn't really inside of me yet. Three or four months later, she ended it. Essentially, I'd become Garfield.
- [11:59]
A
Yeah.
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B
And I realized, you know what? I just wasn't quite enough man for her at that time. So you're just blowing my mind here. I realized no one. I was doing an impression of that tiger, that lion, but really, I was still Garfield. And she said, I need a lion.
- [12:13]
A
Yeah, yeah. But we need to feel the pain, you know, in order to us to make the change and for it to really be embedded inside us as a solid lesson.
- [12:26]
B
You mean we have to understand the problem and feel it before we can make that change?
- [12:30]
A
Yeah, a lot of us do. I mean, you know, it's like you're at school and it's like, you know, you got the Bunsen burner burning, you know? You know, not to put your hand in the. On the Bunsen burner, but, you know, there's that daft kid that is gonna put his hand on the Bunsen burning. Ow. What you do that for? Like. But not gonna do that again. He's not gonna do that again. You know, when I was younger, we had, like, a rescue dog and never got onto this dog. Hated all of my friends, you know, my Friends used to have to come and like, my mum used to have to hold the dog back and they used to run up the stairs and like, secretly try to get in my room without the dog scene. It was vicious. And, you know, I was. I was young, I was naive and I was squirting this dog with a water pistol, right? My dad goes, don't do that, it's gonna bite you. It's gonna bite your carry on. Squirt and squirt, squirt and spin. My hands in the dog's mouth. I never did it again. Yeah, so it's that, isn't it? You know, even like you and I, you know, we're a position where we can help many and, you know, sometimes we don't listen to our own lessons, you know, our own teachings.
- [13:37]
B
Well, success feels good, results feel great. But they're not necessarily the best teachers. Sometimes you need to burn your hand on the Bunsen burner to say, never again or learn. Or as Lorraine basically said to me in so many words, you're not enough man for me, Connell. Come back to me in a couple years, maybe.
- [13:56]
A
It's hard, isn't it? I also had a friend that. He was such a charmer. He had landed this beautiful model Russian blonde girlfriend. And, you know, they had a few years between them and then one day she just turned around and she goes, you know what? It's not going to work between you and I. And he's like, where's this all come from? You have no assets. So how are you able to look after us if there becomes a problem between us? You know that when I heard that story, I was like, wow. I mean, that's hard. But that's a very good lesson, right? And I remember, yeah, on. Just on the same sort of realm of that. I remember being at a pre BAFTA party here in London. This is quite. It's like going back 10 years ago and it was the who's who were the scene. I mean, I knew a few actors there, but I didn't know all the big wigs, the directors and producers, all this stuff. And I was at the bar and I was chatting to this bit of an older lady and had been in that scene for a while, and we got talking about how much money a man should make, you know, and she goes, well, you know, I tried dating a guy that was earning under a hundred grand before. It didn't really work. And I was just like, whoa. I was a young guy at the time, you know, I was like, Well, I mean, 100 grand is quite a lot of money for me. You know, that's quite a lot of money. But it was an eye opener back then because she had a point. You know, if someone's, I think a lot of us haven't, haven't thought about the money. You know, we learned that this old, all the dating stuff like how to, how to get, how to attract a woman, how to be more charismatic, have the right mindset, but we haven't looked at, about getting our money right. And what happens is you, you can build yourself to be the most charismatic, charming guy, you know, have speak like James Bond and the rest of it. But if you haven't worked on the core stuff, you're just a placeholder for someone else when they come along. Just like my friend, right as he was called out by his girlfriend. And just like this woman rightfully said, I mean, 100 grand a year, it's a lot of money in some districts, but depending on where you are, it's probably treble that, that you need to make because you're thinking about, well, that's my money, you know, I need another hundred to maybe retire my partner, you know, or you know, looking after the parents or whatever and investments and stuff like that. So I guess, you know, for the, when I'm not working with the guys that have already got that stuff sorted out, that's, that's also another conversation I'm having with guys just to make them aware of that kind of things because otherwise you're just a short term hold.
- [17:01]
B
Okay. On the topic of money and status, one thing I noticed early on in my figuring all figuring out success with women in my journey was how women notice our behaviors. Big, small, nuanced, the way we talk to the bartender, the way we talk to the waiter, all the little sub communications that come out. I just noticed that, I noticed that women noticed. And I made a mental note early on to not, not always be on. I didn't want to get in my head about it, but to just always be aware that, hey, a woman's gonna always be noticing how we're behaving, especially in those first few dates, few interactions when she's taking you in. And that can convey your sense of confidence, your sense of status or lack thereof. What's your take on that? Do you agree? Do you disagree? What did you, what have you noticed in your dating coaching and your dating past?
- [17:55]
A
Absolutely. I mean, I think essentially in communication, we're looking to break the expected pattern. When you go out, there is, there is an obvious cliche Pattern that exists socially, right? It's what do you do, where you from, how old? You know that kind of not like the yawn zone. I call that like, come on, man, we can do better than that. You know, if we've said to ourselves, I am getting better at this service, I want to improve my communication. You are not going out saying that stuff. We can do better, okay? If you're bored of hearing yourself say the same thing, the chances are that will then be transmitted, right? That will be, it'll be received in that way. No matter what you say, you're bored.
- [18:36]
B
She's gonna be bored, right?
- [18:38]
A
Exactly. So it's, we've, we've got to get back to the self amusement, right? I mean, I found myself the other day speaking to new set of girls. I was like, hi. Enjoying the party? Yes, yes, cool. I go, oh my God, I'm looking after a cat at the moment. Like, what? Like, yeah, I got this, this, I just been dumped. This bloody cat. I go, well, yeah, I started getting the pictures out, show the videos. I go, oh, what's his name? I go, bastard. What? Go, his name's Bastard. I go, what do you mean? It's called Bastard, right? It's called Dee Dee, but it's called Bastard because he's a, he's a bastard. Like he's running around, he's a, he's a jungle cat, you know, he's hissing, he's clawing me. I just want to hug the poor guy, you know, so that is an amazing experience for, you know, just meeting someone. They're going to remember that. But I'm at work.
- [19:32]
B
Why did that work? If you could break that down for.
- [19:35]
A
Our listener, it works straight away because like I said, you're breaking an expected pattern, right? She's going to have interactions that lack imagination that whole evening or whatever that social playground is. And if you're the sixth guy that says pretty much the same thing, it's just not enough to carry it over the line, you know, it's not enough to make impact. So in every social scenario, you've got to think, what's the pattern here? I need to break. Like, this is one we can all relate to. Like we maybe we go to the Starbucks or Costa or whatever it is and we order a coffee. Your goal is to get a free coffee, right? And you do that just by being. Just by choosing to put a smile on the server's face. Okay? You, you can just, you know, we've all got the ability to give us a silly name on that cup, you know, when she said, oh, what's your name? You put Spider man or Snoop Dogg or Silly Bollocks or, you know, whatever it is. And then she's going to shout that out, right? And then you've made her laugh, right. You've made others around you laugh. Right. It's so easy to open up whoever's around you because you're the funny guy.
- [20:50]
B
I never do that.
- [20:52]
A
Yeah.
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B
I do the opposite. I do the opposite. I need your coaching at Starbucks. So here's what I. Here's what I fuck up. My name's Connell and nobody gets it right. I get Colin and Connor Carnal, which is my porn star name. A totally different identity. And when I go to Starbucks, When I go to Starbucks, I do the opposite. Your good advice? I just, I give them my middle name, which is Timothy. Because I don't. I just want them to get the order right. But you know what? Yeah, that's boring. I'm gonna be Spider man from now on.
- [21:20]
A
Yeah. And that comes from where? It comes from deciding that today I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna be playful or I'm gonna go out and fuck with people. I. I saw a guy, I saw a guy the other day and he was riding a penny farthing. You know, like those Victorian big wheel front and like a small little frame and a spoil on the back. Yeah.
- [21:47]
B
It's like 19th century.
- [21:48]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. How did he wake up and think, this is the plan today? Like, that was his commute, you mean? I don't know. I don't think so. I thought, yeah. He goes, oh, he's obviously just started his day and thought, you know what, I'm going to take the bike out today and I'm gonna, I'm gonna ride it through a busy district. That's the plan today. I mean, as ridiculous as that is, we've got to take something from that guy, you know, like, we've got to go out and think, you know, what's the plan today? How can I have a playful day? Because I think a lot of pressure is put on ourselves when you realize that, okay, everything does come from the cold approach. Everything comes from your next interaction, the next, you know, your next business opportunity, your next romantic partner, your next useful friendship. You've got to break patterns. And it starts by you choosing to go out there and be playful and giving people a different experience.
- [22:43]
B
I love that. I can't agree more. You struggle with dating, right? Sure, you have a good job and cool friends, but you just aren't sure how to flirt. The apps don't work for you, and sometimes women put you in the friend zone. It's frustrating. Hey, I struggled with dating too. As an introvert and a total nerd, I didn't just live in the friend zone. I owned real estate there. But I escaped using the dating philosophy of Radical Authenticity, which I've used to help thousands of men in 17 countries find love. It's what I wrote about in my best selling book, Dating Sucks, but yout Don't. And Radical Authenticity is why Psychology Today called me the best dating coach in America. And now I want to personally help you attract your dream girlfriend. So go to datingtransformation.com and book a free call with me. On our call, I'll tell you how my one on one coaching will help you find your dream girlfriend. And you'll be doing it by flirting with confidence and authenticity. No creepy pickup tricks needed. So go to datingtransformation.com, book a free call today, and let my personalized coaching help you get a great girlfriend. So the. The love of my life of the 2000 of the 2000s. I dedicated my book to her. Her name is Alex.
- [24:02]
A
Wow.
- [24:03]
B
Here's how I approached her. I'm at a club in Vegas and I'm thinking, I see this beautiful blonde sitting with her bored friends. They're all bored. And I just know every guy is coming up and either just hitting on her sloppily or giving her that. What do you call it? The yawn. What was it?
- [24:17]
A
The yawn zone.
- [24:18]
B
Yeah, the yawn zone.
- [24:20]
A
Yeah.
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B
And I said, okay, I'm going to try something more fun. And I've been taking improv classes and I've been doing all this character work. So I walk over to her, I unbutton my shirt down to my belly button and I pretend to be like a Latin lover character. And I walk up and I say, hello, I am Armando.
- [24:37]
A
Sorry, God.
- [24:38]
B
And. And she just busts out laughing. It goes great. She calls me Armando for the whole weekend which we spend together. And she became one of the great loves of my life. I'm grateful that to. To convey. And I say that not to impress my listener. I'm just saying you can have fun with this. You can find fun pattern breaking ways to approach a woman or to talk with somebody at Starbucks. Just like you say, break that pattern.
- [25:02]
A
Absolutely. And I think as well, it's something that I've done a lot with my guys is, you know, it's just like if you Imagine yourself back in that scenario there, you know, where you saw of her friends. There was something you told yourself, right. There was some self talk that was going on. Right. And a lot of the time when you get back to that place, it may be something like, she's mine, right. Or, oh, I got to give it a go. I'm gonna take my shot. Right. Or it's on. And I think what's really helpful is just to come up with that little buzz phrase so we can press go on that every time we see an opportunity, because if we don't have that positive reinforcement, we're gonna listen to the other side, which is off.
- [25:49]
B
Yeah.
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A
You know, what's the point? She probably goes for this type of guy or that guy. Oh, no, you know, she's not gonna like you. And you'll listen to that, right? Rather than bringing Armando.
- [26:02]
B
Turn it over to Armando. Yeah, she called me Armando for weeks. Take me into your coaching. Take me. Take us behind the curtain. Do you have any fun stories? Any great. I love the. I love the anecdote you shared about your. Your clients talking to women. Or you. I should say, you self amusing yourself. Do you have any fun stories of you and your clients out in the field doing it or your clients out doing it all the time?
- [26:29]
A
I mean, you know, we did a workshop last. Last month, and we got one coming up this week. But this. This guy, you know, I was speaking to him, Priya, he's part of my online community, but he's. He hadn't done. We hadn't worked together in person before, and I thought that he would need a lot of hand holding because he was telling him it was. He was caught up in this. This dark inner game place where he wasn't filled with positivity. You know, looked like we'd be pushing for a lot of resistance, but in actual fact, he smashed it. He really threw himself at it. And this isn't like, wow, but this is something that can be done, which I think is often overlooked. We did some daytime interactions, some daytime approaching, and he approached this girl, and it went well. I think he was surprised how well it was. It was received. She was receiving him, and I was sitting there watching it go down and just taking some notes on what was happening. And he comes back and he relays back to me what was said and all this kind of stuff. And I go, great, man. You got the number right? He goes, no.
- [27:54]
B
Oh, no.
- [27:55]
A
I go, okay, all right, well, I go. And I see that she's still in the distance. I go, look, you're going to run back there and you're going to. You're going to get the number. I say, listen to me. Nine times out of 10, she will give you the number. Right? Think about it. It doesn't make sense that you just. You approached her, you had this amazing interaction, and you left with nothing. It's like, what. They've left. They've let the village idiot out for the day. You know, you just go around approaching people like, no, she can't be left thinking that was what just happened.
- [28:21]
B
Right.
- [28:22]
A
At least give her the reassurance of, like, oh, no, I was actually hitting on you, you know? So he went and did that, and he was overjoyed. He got the number. And I think that really sort of gave him a breakthrough. And now there was another. The guy really wanted to push it that day. And out in the evening, we was doing some approaching, and, you know, we've got comfortable approaching the groups, you know, single ladies and all this kind of stuff. And he was like, give me a. Give me a bit more of a challenge. I go, all right, well, there's. There's a guy there with two ladies. I mean, I wouldn't imagine he's sleeping with both of them. You know, like, one. One's got to be available, surely. Right. But we need to find out. So I kind of gave him something to say to go and speak to the guy, and the guy turned around, he was like, oh, no, this is my girlfriend, and this is my. This is my cousin. Yeah. So it was. We didn't want to kind of like break up the family on that one, but I really give the guy kudos for really pushing through and.
- [29:29]
B
Yeah, that's scary. It can be so scary to walk up when there's a dude there.
- [29:34]
A
Yeah, it can. It can be. It's definitely a breakthrough for me, and it's an interesting one because I. I've also been in a position where I've been that guy, right. Where I've been the guy with a girlfriend of mine at the time and a few of her friends. And then the guy has seen an opportunity. So the guy's gone straight to one of the girls and approached her. Now, I've got no reason to have my backup about it, but I observed what I was feeling at the time. I was kind of pissed. It was like, you know, you're not. Yes. Part of it being ego. Absolutely. But it was like, when you look at those dynamics, it's like a lion and it's pride, you know, and you can't just go and jump on one of the lionesses. You got to go and speak to the lion first. You know, you've got to kind of have a chat and, you know, see if there's a bit of free zebra going around or something like that, you know, and. And then maybe. Maybe he gonna let you know what's. What the story is with the situation.
- [30:40]
B
Well, let me ask you this. This is a great topic. I get this question a lot, so I'll ask you to answer it. I'd love to hear your take. A man's in a lounge, a bar, and he sees two or three attractive women, and there's at least one guy in the mix. Should he go approach, and if so, how should he do it? What are the social dynamics he needs to navigate any dos and don'ts there?
- [30:59]
A
Well, absolutely. I mean, the. The key thing we need to get to is what's the story? Right. Like, your irrational thinking is thinking. What I used to think was, you know, I'd look in and go off, he's sleeping of all of them. You know what, What? Like, where's that come from? It's just nonsense, so I don't have to do it. Right?
- [31:24]
B
Yeah. So coming up with a reason to get out of doing something I want to do.
- [31:28]
A
Yes. So whatever.
- [31:29]
B
That's uncomfortable to do.
- [31:31]
A
Yeah. But whenever we find ourselves in that place of reaching for an excuse, it's to take note of that and go, okay, well, let's go find out. So your excuse actually is your opener. You know, it could be like, dude, I had to come over because you're. Part of me was thinking you were sleeping of all of them. It's Johnny, by the way. You know, so your excuse is your opener. Just like, you know, the girls wearing her headphones. Yeah. We've all had it. You know, you've had. You've walked around. If your headphones in, someone starts talking, you don't just stand there and carry on, listen to your music. You know, you take them off, go, yeah, what's up? You know, but for some reason, we go, oh, no, we can't, because she's got headphones in. I'm often walking around on my headphones in. I'm not even listening to anything. But anyway. But circle back around. That dynamic is we've got to find out who the girlfriend is. Right. So you've got to acknowledge the guy. You will go, okay, what's the story? So he's gonna go, oh, this is my girlfriend. You know, it's so and so's birthday. So then, you know, you've got the information. You're obviously not going to step on his toes. That's just being an idiot. And if you've got a situation, I mean, one of my favorite stories this is. It's actually going to feature in a book that's going to come out soon. I was working with this guy who's a bit of like a tech mogul, and he was a former Jehovah Witness. Like, such a contrast in life that he was. Moved himself into. And we worked together throughout this week, and he was petrified of women. Got him very comfortable. And we walked into this bar and we saw this couple and what appeared to be this beautiful, like, Colombian model, right? I'm looking at that and I'm going, okay, well, she's available. Yeah, she's available. Like, he's. She's not part of the. She might be part of the couple. I don't know what dynamic they got going on, but we don't know that, right? So I look, I look around. What's happened? I go, okay, they're there, they're drinking white wine. And I'm thinking, how should we approach it? And she's already looked over a couple of times at him, right? So there's already been that nonverbal interest. And I come up with something. I go, okay, cool, here's what we're going to do. Go to the bar and get a mal. Like, we were already drinking Malbec, like red wine, right? So it's like, go to the bar and get a Malbec. Then slowly move over to her, hold eye contact, and then slowly remove her glass from her hand and replace it with the red and say something along the lines of, a girl like, you definitely looking like that definitely should be drinking a red. And then slowly move your eyes off and then come walk back to me. Oh, God, it was the best. I mean, she did look like a Bond girl. And that is exactly what she needed to experience in that moment.
- [34:34]
B
You just painted that picture. And I could see the James Bond movie happening and in front of me.
- [34:39]
A
Yeah, well, I. I've just had a writer write that, and I'm. I do hope it is read in the way that I'm able to tell it, because it's okay. It's a beautiful moment. So that then happened, right? And then what we needed from her is to show some availability, right? So she had to then splinter off the interaction in order for him to make this a verbal, like, interaction now. And I said to him, I Like, look, that's what's going to happen next. She's going to move her over here and she's going to make, give us an opening and interaction, be able to happen. And that's what happened. You know, he was looking over my shoulder, I was looking over his. I was like, yep, here she comes, buddy. And he slowly moved over and then I think the first words that came out of his mouth goes, I don't believe I've met you properly yet. You know, I don't believe we've done names yet or something like that. I mean it was just smooth dialogue.
- [35:40]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [35:41]
A
I mean those are the moments we live for. I mean, yes, there's been amazing stories of marriage and you know, picking people up from, you know, when they've fallen down and all this kind of stuff. But I really like those movie moments that come with this line of work. You know, it's, it's. You feel like you've got enough to write, you know, write a good script.
- [36:04]
B
What about your dating past? Tell me a little bit about, I don't know that much about you, why you became a coach or how did you struggle with women or were you good at it and wanted to share your knowledge? Tell us a little bit about your origin story.
- [36:19]
A
Absolutely. I mean is that there's the conscious level and is the unconscious level and the unconscious level realizing why you're on the path that you're on I think comes to the surface a bit later in life and that came through certain books that I read about, understand a bit more about psychology on a deeper level and you know, what sort of things we inherit from our parents and all this kind of stuff. But you know, my early school life, you know, if we go all the way back to like the sexes right, of boy and girl, like mixing. My early school life was unpleasant and so unpleasant that I actually forgot about it. I don't know if it was just pushed down because it was so bad, like, like it wasn't sort of on a conscious level for me. But I used to go to school at like, I know five, six years old and I was getting kicked to shit by girls. Like I was coming home with bruises all over my legs. My mum had to go to the school and report it to the head teacher. It was a serious thing. Definitely something that you'd be worried about as a parent. You know, it kind of just like that just went away and then I went to, you know, we high school was like an all boys school. So did five years there and I Did another five years, did time in.
- [37:50]
B
The hard boy score.
- [37:51]
A
Great, great time man, great time. I mean I, I think, I think a lot I learned about the social sciences, you know, on the playground more than anything, you know, and then I did five years studying motorsport engineering. Okay, so those are kind of also important elements because I, I learned, I did learn a lot on the playground on a social level about all the different tribe leaders and you know, I guess I was, I was always satellite in around the playground every lunchtime, like mixing of all the different tribe leaders and you know, kind of, I'll take responsibility. I feel like our year group was quite strong because I behaved that way. I was able to kind of pull people together a lot. But motorsport engineering, it taught me about being more of a solution based thinker like this because you have to have an answer. There has to be a reason why that thing is making that noise. You've put something back together wrong or how do we improve something, how do we make something more efficient? So I never went to do motorsport engineering. I loved messing around on fast things but I just kind of took that way of thinking into what was a newf passion of mine, you know, the social scientists sciences. And I think you, why did it, why was I really interested and passionate about it? Wasn't really aware of it at the time as to why, but there was a certain feeling inside when I started going to the bookshelf in the Waterstones and Barnes and Noble and stuff like this that I was getting when I was picking up these books, like it was something inside me that was igniting and I could only really put it down to now as to, well, this is a solution, this is a solution for me to overcome what I'd experienced because every time I was around girls I was at that age, I was experiencing resistance and I couldn't wonder why was this happening to me. And of course it was the early things and mum and dad, I think it's important, you know, we must look at mum and dad, you know, if we're having problems in this area of life, we must look at relationship that we've had with mum and dad or what they've gone through. And what I'd experience at an early age is my mum had always struggled with being a social person and I looked at, I think why, why does she suffer from this? Never really had proper friends and all that kind of stuff. And she lost her mum at a young age. She lost her mum when she was 11 years old, her mum was 30 and she died on her honeymoon from taking the birth control pill. It was tragic. You should get married to a second husband. And then her father, my granddad, lost interest in the whole family basically because he got interest in his new love interest. So essentially my mum grew up without any sort of support, you know, with. Through the parents would give you. And it really meddled with her self confidence and self esteem. So I've seen how limiting life can be when you don't have social skills and confidence and didn't realize that, didn't realize that was an influence for me on my path until later on. My dad's, My dad's always been more of like, you know, my dad's a. Runs his own business and he, he's always been fanatical about fitness and you know, run marathons, coach down the boxing gym, all the fitness classes and stuff. So again, that's something else later in life that I realized where I get the coaching element from.
- [42:10]
B
Right.
- [42:11]
A
So that's the crazy how.
- [42:14]
B
It's crazy how we, we can see these patterns that emerge inside of us based on our parents. I had relationships in the past where I realized, oh my gosh, I'm just like my mom and dad in the sense that we never talk about anything real. We only talk about, quote, unquote, the weather. And I thought, I think I need to be a bit more vulnerable and open. And it's not to say that's not no judgment of my parents. It's just something that maybe I picked up from them and I needed to make a change there.
- [42:41]
A
Exactly. It's seeing what, you know, what we experience from them and having a building awareness around it and go, oh, okay. That's why I'm like this. But it doesn't mean I have to be like this. It's just why I am like this. The same thing why you might be drawn into dysfunctional relationships or, you know, people that are emotionally distant.
- [43:08]
B
Yeah.
- [43:09]
A
Probably because one of your parents was absent. Right. Or you've been let down from your earliest reference points of who was supposed to give you love, your parents. So you find it incredibly difficult to give your everything to someone because you feel that there might be. This might be the second time someone lets you down through a love dynamic relationship. So there's a lot of stuff like that. But yeah, like that's, that's kind of like the roots of it all. I found all this stuff and I started teaching my friends, you know, started teaching my friends. Didn't want to, to begin with, to be honest, because I thought I found Something I was like, wow, you know, I'm gonna get all the girls. And I realized I hit a ceiling by sort of keeping it to myself at the beginning. You know, I was going out and I was trying different things that I wouldn't normally be doing in social situations.
- [44:17]
B
Do you have a hall of fame moment? I guess I'm asking you to brag. I'm giving you permission to brag if you want to. A night where you went out and approached the most beautiful woman there, or you said something that was really self amusing or just a moment where you just like stepped up and had a hero moment. Any moments from your dating past jump out to you?
- [44:37]
A
There's been so many. You know, there really has because like the early. There's like in my early, early days, like, like 20s, like some of the earliest breakthroughs, like I remember there being like going to this club and it would be like this place we go every Tuesday. It was marketed like an every Tuesday sort of uni, sort of people and you know, very sort of young place. And it was always these two girls that were like the girls that everyone sort of had a crush on, you know, and it might have been that they were more attracted to the guys that were maybe like a year older than you, you know, and worked out a little bit more, you know, wore a tighter T shirt. You know, I was a part of the tight T shirt crew, you know, so I had to work it a different way. But I remember like we went out and we went to a friend's gig. First of all, it was at a different place around the corner. And you know, I'm always supporting my friend. I've got big passion for music, always have done. So we were supporting our friends and they played. And then what the guys wanted to do after the gig was just sort of sit around and just sort of drink and sort of bum around of the band. I knew next door the place was heaving with girls and I was like, I was getting anxiety. I was like, guys, like, what we doing here? And I said to my friends, like, look, let's get out of here. And we went next door. A few of us came and. But then we had a little place and everyone sort of drinking and no one was really making any moves, reproaching or interacting. And I'd always use these sort of social events to get myself out there and practice. And I'd splinter off. I go right into the bathroom and then. But what I would do is I would approach two women or a group or something. Something would Happen, you know, it have to happen. I'd. I'd need to walk away of something every night, you know, a new experience. So I approached these two girls. They were the most attractive girls in there. And I can't remember exactly what I said, but I just remember that night being a huge breakthrough for me because I had the courage to approach those two beautiful girls in the place.
- [47:00]
B
And they were together or separately?
- [47:02]
A
They were together. Okay. Yeah, they were together.
- [47:05]
B
That's intimidating for some men, maybe. Not you at that time. Maybe it was, but.
- [47:08]
A
Oh, it certainly was. It certainly was. So that's why it took me such a long time to. To have the courage to approach girls of that beauty. At the time, you know, I just remember walking away, think, wow, it wasn't as bad as what I thought it would. As how it would go. Wow. And then I think, what else is possible? This is crazy.
- [47:35]
B
Well, I love that story because it reminds me of the importance of turning what you think is something scary or fearful and using it to your advantage. What I mean is. And tell me if you agree with this. I'd love to hear your view, but my. I've noticed that women know how hard it is for men to approach them, many of us. And so when you approach a woman who's with a friend or with a guy there, and you still have the courage to walk up and shoot your shot, the fact that you're doing a higher difficulty level can really spark some attraction in her because she realizes, boy, this guy doesn't care. He just came right up to me.
- [48:12]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [48:13]
B
That's an opportunity. So basically, the scarier an opening a quote unquote set is the bigger the group, the hotter the girls. That's more of a chance to create something because you're going to, you know, high risk, high reward, right?
- [48:25]
A
100%. Well, the reality is, I mean, you're absolutely right, you know, because it's given off clues like, wow, this guy goes through life and gets what he wants. Feels I'm gonna feel safe around this guy, you know, like, he's just gonna be handling shit. But the reality is of the groups, they're easier. A lot of think. A lot of people think, well, the groups, oh, God, there's so many of them. It's this. It's not difficult. It's just different. And think of it, they can afford to lose one, you know, if you hit it off with one, they can afford to lose one. If it's just two girls, you know, you've got a bit of a situation There, like you, they're. They're with each other, you know, you can't splinter one off. But I will tell you because I've been writing a little bit recently about breakthroughs, and another one was, you know, one of my first daytime approaches. Like, I never done it. I never really did it. It was such a taboo. How mad is that? Like, I think it's because conventionally, like you, that's where we meet people in evening, right? Normally it's not frowned upon to maybe sort of meet someone at a bar, but like, to interrupt someone's day, like, hey, you know, I just saw you over there. Like, that was so taboo for me. And I remember fantasizing about doing it. I remember I was on a bus. I was on the top layer, and. And I saw these two girls. I didn't see them on the bus, but I saw these two ladies, like, get off the bus, and I looked out the window and I thought, I got to do it. I've got to do it. I've got to go down there and I've got to go and say something, you know what? And I didn't do it. And I didn't. I didn't do it. But when we. When we were talking earlier about the pain that you have to be experienced to be motivated to do or not do, that was such an important emotion and experience I needed to fill. Because next time I did do it, I was in a shopping mall. It did help. I was a bit hungover at the time, right. I had that moment that we've all experienced, that exchange of eye contact. And I said to myself, you know, then we've got to create that buzz phrase of do it. I said, johnny, just do it. I went over there and I opened up the interaction and nothing amazing was really exchanged, to be honest. It was just the impact of doing. I got her number. She became my girlfriend for two years.
- [51:06]
B
Wow.
- [51:06]
A
That was. And I was again, I was just like, whoa, another ceiling I've just broke through here.
- [51:12]
B
Like, that's fantastic. So you said never again about not talking to a woman you wanted to talk to. And the next time you made it. Right. And it paid off for you in a huge way, obviously.
- [51:21]
A
Yeah. Don't get me wrong, I had a lot to learn. I was very young about girls. I mean, that was, you know, I was an absolute doormat in that relationship. You know, there's a lot of things that I learned not to do and how to behave in that one. But those lessons were what would have come for me later. On down the line, you know, I trained.
- [51:40]
B
So I quick story that your story reminds me of this. I. I trained myself through hard knocks to punish myself in a positive way when I. When I wimped out. And so if I saw a woman I had to talk to, but. But I didn't. I talked myself out of it. I would notice it and I would punish myself by. I would say, all right, you now have to do the hardest approach there is to get leverage on myself. So I'm in a park in New York City. So this is 10, gosh, 10 years ago at this point. But there's a woman I wanted to approach. I didn't. I talked myself out of it. She walked away. And I said, you know what? All right, I'm going to talk to the most beautiful girl I see. I don't care how awkward it is. And I saw this vision walking across the street, across a walkway. She was wearing a fedora, pencil skirt, very curvy, really pretty. And I said, oh, I got the perfect line and I'm going to walk up. And I walked up to her. The second I got there, a gentleman who was down on his luck, sort of cat called her, said something like, hey, look at those. Look at those moves, girl. And I immediately switched to something not planned. And I said, hey, I'm sorry. I just wanted to come over and apologize. My dad is so, so good. Yeah, I love the women. And she lit up. She could. She said, and I quote, she looked at me and said, you're way better at hitting on me than other guys. So to me, there are like two quick lessons there. A, take immediate action if you can, if you forgive yourself, but take right action. And then also, it's fine to have an opener, but if you can find something spontaneous, that's usually going to go best, I've found.
- [53:16]
A
Absolutely. I mean, there's always.
- [53:18]
B
Oh, and she became my girlfriend. Six. Six months.
- [53:20]
A
Oh, wow. I mean, that's. That's the. That's the thing. I mean, like, if you look at it, people are fatigued with the apps, okay. The online landscape, that swipe right, left mechanism. Like, we're just seeing it. And let's just say there's a group of girls and they're talking about how they met their partners, Right? They go around the table. Oh, how did you meet your partner? Oh, he was my boss. Okay, you shagged your boss at work. What about you? Oh, we met on Tinder. Oh, okay, cool. What about you? Oh, you know, I was. I was walking down the street this Guy tried to hit on me, I blew him off. Then other guy told me it was his dad. Anyway, cut a long story short, we've been going out ever since. This is my bloody husband now, you know, like it's the story that they're going to be telling again and again and again. So however ridiculous it is, that's the motivator, that's the story. It's. I love that one. It's great.
- [54:17]
B
And Cat and I were asked that many times, hey, how'd you guys meet? Her face lit up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and that was a big moment for me. Okay, let's finish up with a few fun, quick, short answer, short question, short answer, rapid fire. I'll even partake in these. I'll answer my own questions. One question I was curious to ask you because you've been doing this a while is what is one piece of advice that you used to give men that you no longer believe in or that you've changed your mind about? For me, I used to tell guys, oh, women want cocky. Be cocky. Because when I was coming up, quote, cocky, funny, really helped me. But then I realized as I evolved as a coach, that works for some men, but it's not for everybody. And I've adjusted that to be more playful or be cheeky. But if and only if, that's your personality, that's me. What about you? Anything that used to teach that you say, ah, I don't believe that anymore.
- [55:08]
A
It's a good question. I think my mind goes, well, we just spoke about it a little bit now, but the apps and the online space, like I'm very anti app, to be honest. At the moment. I acknowledge it is a path, right. And I definitely have immediate reference of it working for people. But the statistics show that, you know, it's 20% of people are getting success on there. Right. So unless you are doing an extraordinary job of marketing yourself, right. Which a lot of us that find ourselves you're going to help in a space are not good at, it's best to save yourself the frustration because it's not a substitute for going out there and living a more social life. And I think I was working with one particular person that's come to mind. And the pattern that that person was experiencing was to come out long term relationship, built themselves back up, you know, become more market friendly, so to speak. And it was, wasn't working out with the guys. This is a lady that I was working with. It wasn't working out every time that she was meeting these guys, like One guy was like married on the sly, sort of seeing her, you know, another guy who just, just wanted something casual. There was no accountability. And I said, you got to get back to work on your social life. That's where you meet people, that is where it happens. And I think we get caught in that trap of just using online as a. As a substitute for being living a social life.
- [57:04]
B
Great advice. I see it as a second funnel to bring more dating options into your life. Almost like a business needs multiple funnels of clients, customers, your dating life. When you're a single guy, it's good to have multiple leads coming in. And online dating is a great source of leads if you can create a profile that does that. But I never want a guy to feel like he has to stay in the online dating ghetto. You want to have the freedom to meet people out in the real world. I believe your social circle should be wherever you are.
- [57:33]
A
Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, as I said, like one of the first things we spoke about was reconnecting with yourself.
- [57:40]
B
Yeah.
- [57:40]
A
Maybe write down five of those things that you enjoy and then go off and find communities around that.
- [57:47]
B
Yeah. Well, that was going to be my next question, which is, apart from dating, apart from dating advice and dating strategies, what are some non dating related skills or pursuits that you recommend our listener consider to just make him more holistically, socially healthier, happier, which will indirectly help his dating life. But it's just about being a more holistically social guy.
- [58:13]
A
Yeah. It's off the back of what I just said, really. I mean, if I was to. If I was to think about something that I lost touch with. Right. It was music. I used to be very passionate about music, particularly dance music, supporting friends in bands and stuff, even making music. And I got so work focused over a certain period of years that that kind of fell to the wayside. And it wasn't until a friend of mine invited me to an event where the music that was being played had certain aspects to stuff that I used to listen to. And I was so thankful for him taking me there because it opened up a whole new community and group of friends for me. And what that then did. It put me in landscapes where I could, you know, I was meeting women off the byproduct of doing something I was already enjoying.
- [59:16]
B
Yeah.
- [59:16]
A
You know, and it just kept on snowballing. It just did. But if you don't have that, then it's going to be hard. You know, I'm speaking a lot about that with the guys. I've got my Online community. And we, and one guy, he's a, he, he wants to be in a band. And I said, well, look. And he's struggling to find people to. Unreliable people, you know, they're waking up and they're supposed to do a band practice once, got drunk the night before or got high or waking up in some bird's bed or something. Unreliable. I go, listen, what you want to do is go to the, the open mic nights. And we, I did a bit of scouting for him actually, because I found that world quite interesting also. And so now what he does, he, he goes round to these open mic nights and he's making friends there, you know, he's, you know, and again, being in that world, he's got confidence, he's got wisdom. So he's got status, he's more attractive. Yep. It's just the play.
- [60:23]
B
I can't agree more. For you it was music. It sounds like for him it was open mic night. For some of my guys, it's been stand up comedy, great cooking classes, music, taking up instruments. I took improv acting for decade, for over a decade. And I essentially didn't realize I was doing it at the time, but I was buying into this wonderful community of people, like minded nerds like me, who liked comedy, who liked improv. And I found a tribe and I met some women there and dated some of them, met a lot of friends and it just, it added so much value to my life having that, finding my tribe.
- [60:59]
A
Yeah. And let's just say, like, you actually do date someone from those communities, there's more accountability because on the apps you can just go, you know, you can meet someone, they, they can decide, you know, I'm gonna be a dick. You know I'm gonna be a dick. And you know, I'm gonna get away with it because there's no person, there's no mutuals between us, you know, and a lot of people encounter that. But when you're dating someone in like communities and stuff, you would have thought you're not going to be seeing too much of the worst of someone because it's going to come back.
- [61:37]
B
Yeah. Last question. I typically end podcasts by saying to my listener, hey, talk is cheap. Information is overrated. Action is underrated. Here's something I want you to do this week. I'd like to ask you to do that. If you're okay with it. I'd love to give that job to you. Is there one specific action or step that the guy listening to this episode should do this week that will help him either in his dating life or his overall social situation to become a more attractive guy. What would you like our listener to do?
- [62:12]
A
Yeah, say. Say yes to your next invite. Right? I think we get invitations every day. Like I've got an invite to something today and part of me inside is like, you know, can I be bothered? Do I really want to go? You know, like, oh God. It'd be a bit of an effort, you know, but just give yourself a 10, 10% bit of effort to beat the shitty person that you were yesterday. And I guarantee the best nights or the best social experiences often come from those things that you push yourself to do.
- [62:45]
B
You are so correct. Quick story to support. I swear, I swear, listener that Johnny and I did not plan this. Here's a story. Many years ago, I felt exactly the same. My friend Eric said, hey, come to this art gallery thing I'm being part of. He was a curator. And I'm like, I'm so tired. I'm so, I don't know. But I said yes to it. And I met a woman named Rachel who became my long distance girlfriend for about a year. I loved her and we had this incredible conversation that night about art. Next thing I knew, we were on a date two nights later and having a, a Boston, New York, long term, but really connected relationship. And that started with me saying yes to that invite.
- [63:23]
A
Amazing.
- [63:24]
B
That's damn good advice. Thank you so much, Johnny. This was a blast. Oh, I forgot to ask you, have you ever seen the, the Jim Carrey movie? Yes, man. Speaking of yes.
- [63:33]
A
Yeah, yes, yes. The whole movie.
- [63:37]
B
He has to say yes to everything.
- [63:38]
A
Yeah, well, there's, there's another. Go away and do watch. Watch Jim Carrey. Yes, man.
- [63:43]
B
Yeah, that's a good, that's a really good movie. To talk about taking the concept of saying yes to invites, he goes a little overboard. But hey, if you end up meeting Zooey Deschanel, that's a pretty good.
- [63:55]
A
Yeah.
- [63:55]
B
Or your Zooey Deschanel, that's a pretty good outcome. Johnny, for, for the gentleman listening to this who is like, hey, I want to know, I want to know more about this Johnny Cassell. How can they find you? How can they potentially work with you or learn about your coaching or your content? Where should people go to find out, Find out more.
- [64:13]
A
Yeah, that's johnnycassell.com so you've got all our offerings on there, like programs, online community, stuff like that. Ondondondatingcoach. I'm mostly active on that social channel more than anything. And if you punch my name.
- [64:26]
B
Instagram.
- [64:27]
A
Yes, Instagram. And if you punch my name into YouTube, you'll find content on there. I mean, we got over like, was it like over 200 videos now? So there's lots of stuff you can learn for free.
- [64:40]
B
Nice. Johnnycassell.com@londondatingcoach.
- [64:45]
A
Is that right?
- [64:46]
B
Londondating coach on Instagram. Johnny, thank you so much for being here. It was a blast, man. Great stuff. Really great.
- [64:51]
A
Thank you, man. You've been a great host. Really, really enjoyed it.
- [64:54]
B
I try. I do try. I've had a lot of coffee today. That helps. And thank you for listening. You have about 19 million podcasts you can choose from. You just listen to me and Johnny for an hour, which is freaking awesome. Thank you. I really appreciate that. Don't forget your dream girlfriend. She is out there and she is gonna love you but she's gonna have to meet the real authentic you. So go out there, take some action. Carpe datum until next.