A (3:15)

Can you think back to a moment when you had to talk yourself into approaching a woman because you thought, oh, she doesn't look approachable, she doesn't want me to bother her, but you did it with good old fashioned courage. And actually it went really well.

B (3:31)

You know, there's, it's, I want to say it's like almost every time to some degree. You know, still best is when you're just, you don't think about it. Where I, but like, even so I was out for my birthday with a bunch of friends with this cool like lounge and there's a lot of women there, a lot of people. And so me and my friend, right? Yeah, just this last weekend and I, and I was kind of having some choke, you know, I was like, kind of, you know, you know, like when, when you're in your head too much, you end up like leering like a creep because you're like. And you know, because you're like, you're thinking, you're kind of like looking and thinking and looking and thinking and like, you know, and I noticed I was, you know, doing that to a degree where I was just, just not taking action. So I was like walking like, okay, maybe I could approach her and what, okay, and then what do I say and what's the perfect thing to say? And I just, you know, an hour went by and I didn't approach anybody yet. There's like women all around, you know, and I was. And some of my friends and I like in me doing this, I think I've talked about that before where I sometimes encourage my friends to do it as well, like when we're single guys because they've seen me do it and they kind of like at this point, like, look at me like a leader to some degree and they're like, oh, like. And I think they, they think that like I'm maybe better than I am. Like, like they see Me as just this, like, super confident, like, don't think, don't give a fuck. But really, I still have, like, a little bit of anxiety, but, you know, I. They. They've seen me take that action. Even though it does still, I still get a little bit of butterflies. Not nearly what it was before, but, you know, but I noticed I was having, you know, a little bit of the block, a little bit of a mental block for whatever reason that night. And I was talking with my friends about it, and I. I think I asked one of them. I'm like, all right, give me a challenge. Just tell. Just tell me what to do with a girl. And he goes, all right, see that girl there with the curly hair? Go talk to her. You know, go work your magic or whatever. And I was like, okay. And I just went and I did it. We had a great conversation and nothing bad happened, you know, and we talked a couple times at night, and maybe, you know, ended up being like, okay, maybe it's not going to go further. And, you know, whatever. And, you know, some of that was me. It's like, oh, maybe I didn't vibe as much as I would have wanted to. Whereas before, I'd be like, oh, my God, I need her to like me. And. But, like, at the same time, it's like I tried to shift my mindset of, like, no, I'm the. You know, it's okay if I'm someone who. Who says no, you know what I mean? Of, like, yeah, you're just not what I'm looking for. But, hey, I went and I talked. We had a great convo. We had fun and, you know, laughed and, you know, we talked a couple times. I met some of her other friends, you know, and it felt really good, and it broke the ice. And then I spoke with, you know, multiple other women that night. And so, you know, kind of got me back into it. Just got the momentum going once again. So, I mean, yeah, so just a very recent example how I can still get in my head, and there's, you know, ways to push through it, Right?

A (6:57)

So you still get in your head. You still find reasons not to do it yet. That's what I love about that story, Evan, is you were resilient and you came up with a way to get yourself to take action. Getting your friend to say, all right, who should I approach? And that can help us smash through the resistance. So we find a way to approach a woman, and most of the time, it either doesn't go as badly as we fear or actually, it can go really, really well. I think the biggest problem I hear over and over again from men is I don't know what to say. I'm not sure it'll go well. And I don't want to creep her out and bother her. And one of the smartest things you can do is go out with a wingman and give each other missions to do the whole night. Way back when I first started approaching women, I had this wingman buddy named Tyler, and we would give each other missions to do. One night we go out, and I had to approach everyone he pointed to, and vice versa. He points to a table with a really pretty brunette, her pretty blonde friend, and this big muscular guy. He's like, go. Go over there and approach. It's like, oh, Jesus Christ. Rooftop bar called 235th here in New York City. So I had to do what I had to do. So I go over and I sit down. I'm thinking, oh, my God, the guy's going to punch me. He's a big, muscular dude. It's one of their boyfriends. This is going to go terribly. But I sit down and I grab a seat and I say, hey, I just wanted to say hi to you. You guys seem friendly. And the brunette looked at me with these big eyes and leaned across the table, and she said, oh, my God, you just came up to us and just said hi. Do you know what you are? And in my mind, I'm like a creep who's about to get his ass kicked by your boyfriend. And I tried to play it cool. I said, I don't know.

B (8:48)

What am I?

A (8:49)

She said, you're normal. Thank you for just coming over here. And then she pointed to another table. See that guy over there? And she pointed to another ginger in a black shirt like my doppelganger. She said, see that guy over there? He's been staring at us all night, and it's creeping us out. And I got the cute brunette's number, by the way, the big muscly guy wasn't a boyfriend, just a friend. He was pretty chill. And I got the cute brunette's number that night. And I thought, damn, you know, is it hard to approach women? Yeah. Is it possibly creepy? Maybe, maybe not. But you know what's creepy is staring and leering and doing nothing.

B (9:27)

Like my ginger doppelganger, the anti Connell, the anti con. I hope he figured it out. Although maybe more so the old Connell. Right. Who probably did the same. I do, you know?

A (9:41)

Yeah. So what you could do for those watching or listening is all right? You feel that anxiety? Feel those nerves? Give your wingman 100 bucks and say, here's a hundred bucks. I will approach every woman you tell me to tonight. And if I don't do one thing, you can keep the 100. That'll give you leverage.

B (10:01)

Mostly accountability. It's really good accountability.

A (10:05)

Yeah, exactly. When you and I first started working together, one of the things was you came to me in part because you wanted to approach. Wasn't just about the fear. It was about, oh, what do I say? How do I break the ice with women? Can you share some of your insights that you. Or success stories, moments where you didn't know what to say, but you figured it out, or you came up with what to say? When you want to approach a woman, how do you figure out what to say?

B (10:33)

I. You know, we talked about this a bit last time, and I know how you teach about, like, something relevant. You know, it could be about her. Her style, just something that's something that stands out to you. Something that stands out about the situation or kind of just like a candidate. Just say whatever's on my mind, you know? Yeah, I usually lean toward the situation. For me, it's, like, a little more comfortable, and, you know, I'm. One of my strengths is coming up with fun, funny things to break the ice. And it was. And I remember, too, one time when we were working together, you challenged me. You said, don't lean on that. You said, go, just try one of these other. Just candid, just, hey, I want to talk, you know, or something like that. And it made me really nervous because for me, it was like a. I think it's successful. You know, when I do these things, they work for me. But I think it was also a good challenge that you gave to me to just do something that doesn't have to be the most creative thing in the world. And. Because I think at the time, I was getting a little blocked because I was maybe hovering a little too much as I was working through some. You know, my writing team, in my head, was working through some workshopping material. And. And I remember I was. I was at lunch with some friends, and there were these two girls, and one was, like, really super cute. And. But, like, it just wasn't the right. It just didn't feel like the right moment. You know, I'm with my friend. You know, it was like the middle of the day, and I was like, do I. Do I just. So I just kind of let it go. But then I went back to Starbucks, where I was Working and there. And, you know, 20 minutes later, her and her friend walked past the Starbucks. And I was like, oh, second chance. I'm gonna do what Connell said. I think I had to hype myself up a little bit. And they got kind of far away and so I kind of like left my site. Luckily, really safe where I'm at. No one does anything. And there was like someone there I knew. So I just like left my stuff there and I like. I think I ran to just catch up and then like had to catch my breath and then just kind of like walk to the side of them as they were walking. What did I say? I think I said, hey, I saw you guys before. And I. And I. I don't know if I said I thought you were cute or I just. You guys seem cool. I wanted to say hi. So something like that. Just this pre programmed, like, nothing fancy. And we just had a good conversation, the three of us. I probably walked another like quarter mile or more, you know. Now I'm like super far away from my workstation there. And she did end up. I love all my stuff back there. My supply line was stretched and I like walked all the way to the end of the other side of the beach, like kind of pretending like I was going that way anyway, you know, And. And it was really funny because another funny part is not super relevant to this situation. But the girl, I think both of them were Peruvian and my brother's wife is Peruvian and we're kind of in a small town. So she ended up, of course, knowing my brother's wife. And I was like, oh, I hope she doesn't tell her that this guy just came up to us and said, hey, I think I thought you were cute or whatever. And like came and flirted or what. I was like, oh, God, I'm gonna get this reputation or whatever. I mean, I didn't care that much, but I thought it was just kind of funny that they knew each other. I'm like, oh, I hope she doesn't tell her, but. But yeah, she did. The one I did think was cute did end up having a boyfriend. They were like looking at getting the partner visa, you know, something like that, so. Right. But still, I think. But again, even if it doesn't end up in marriage, you know, a date sex, what. It still is still a win, you know. Absolutely. And I think that having that mindset's really been helpful as well, that you know, that process goal. Yeah. But also, you talk about this a lot. And this stays in my head is also like how you push the play to win. Because otherwise I can maybe fall into this, like, safety mode where I'm just going to go talk to them and, and, oh, I'll call it a win. But I didn't push past to get the number, like really try to get the date or break the ice. If it's not like, oh, we didn't talk for 10 minutes and we're vibing. You know, it's like, okay, we talked for a few minutes. I still think they're cute. Like, let's, let's give the compliment. Let's do the romance, like say a romantic line or, you know, I think that that was a huge learning moment where I don't have to like, play it so cool that does he like me or does he think I'm attractive? You know, to actually say, you know, you're cute or, you know that like, I think is super powerful as well. But also. Yeah, so I'm just saying, playing, making sure I play to win. So don't take it too far in one direction of playing it safe just to break the ice and feel good about myself, but also make sure I'm playing to win as well and take it next level.

A (16:03)

What stops a lot of men from approaching women is thinking there's some perfect thing to say or that it has to be the right thing. It's got to be witty, charismatic, amazing. And this is actually what adds to approach anxiety, thinking the bar is this high for how good the thing has to be to say, when actually it's much, much less. Lower the bar. One of my breakthrough moments realizing this back when I was learning this way back when Obama was president, I, because I'm a guy who loves, oh, let me say something witty, cool, charismatic. And I, and that was just getting me in my head and I usually wasn't doing anything. So I'm at Barnes and Noble one day, one Saturday afternoon, and I see this very, very cute thin blonde woman standing next to all these greeting cards, looking at cards. And I just said to myself, okay, what am I thinking and feeling? What's the authentic real truth? She's really cute and I want to meet her. So I walked over and I said, hi, excuse me, you're really cute. Three words. You're really cute. And she looked at me and smiled and said, you're very handsome. We were like a couple of eight year olds. You're cute. You're handsome. I like you. Do you like me? It was so simple and sweet. We chatted for about 10 minutes. Her name is Lane, by the way, and got her number. And I remember she texted me later that day. She texted me and I quote, hey, thanks for picking me up. She actually used the word pickup, as in picking me up. It's not a bad thing to try to approach, quote, pick up a woman if she likes you and likes your vibe. And it was just so simple. I said, you're cute. She said, oh, you're handsome. We had a nice vibe. And then two nights later we were on a first date and it went great. And I just never forgot that. So if you have a fancy, cool, funny line that comes up organically, great, go with it. But if you don't, just walk up and say, hey, you're cute, want to meet you. It can be that simple.

B (18:13)

Yeah, I think, you know, I agree that there's power to that versus coming up with the line. And I think that's probably a big point of resistance for me in the moment is trying to lean on the comfort of the perfect line. Sometimes it comes pretty quick and I have some like built in ones, you know, because a lot of times, like during the day and you'll see a girl like working by the beach or at a picnic table or at a, the coffee shop and they're kind of have their beach clothes, but they're also working. And I could be like, oh, is this your new office? You know, or just something simple like that. Yeah. And sometimes I'll, you know, it'll be like, you know, Wednesday and they're at the beach and I'm like, I'm like, who's allowing you to have a beach day on a Wednesday? Like, how do you do that? You know, I don't know, just something silly like that and just gets, that means just really. I mean, what's probably more important and powerful is the conversation itself. It's not the first line, it just opens a door. If you have a good line, okay, it gets things started off in a good direction. But you know, if you're being your normal, clever, nice, cool, whatever, self, that's what's most important. Not the opener. You know, they're going to forget about that. Or if it's really good, maybe they won't. Sometimes it makes for a good story later, you know, like, oh, we came up and said this and yeah, they,

A (19:43)

women rarely remember the thing you say when you approach. Yeah, they just remember that you did it. I was at Whole Foods once on, it was the first week after Christmas and I saw this very pretty, attractive, stylish woman in the frozen food section. And she had this winter hat, a big kind of like, frilly hat pulled over. She looked like the COVID of the J. Crew winter catalog, which is what came to me. And I walk over and I said, hey, I just saw you. You look like the COVID of the J. Crew winter catalog. I thought that was pretty good. We had a good conversation. We chatted. I got her number. We had a first date. A few days later on our first date, I said, so I'm curious, you know, what did you think of me when we met? I was fishing for a compliment. My ego wanted to have to be stroked. I was hoping she would say, oh, you were so witty. You were so funny. She couldn't remember what I'd said. She said, oh, you know what I liked is you look me in the eye. You stood up straight, and you looked me in the eye. Just eye contact, normal conversation, showing that clear interest that's can. What? That's what can make a woman really attracted to you and think about you is, wow. Finally, a guy just came up and let me know he wanted to meet me. And we chatted, and that's more than enough. So witty, amazing. Funny lines are great, but most of the time, women won't remember it. They'll remember the eye contact, the good posture, and just an overall vibe that says, hey, I belong here talking to you. Why wouldn't I come talk to you?

B (21:18)

Well, it's, you know, how you made them feel in the moment, Right? And so somebody's, like, having the line. They may not remember it, but they'll remember just how it made them feel at the beginning of, like, oh, wow. Or, you know, or just playing into the general fun of it. And so, yeah, it doesn't matter. Just at the end of the day, how did you make them feel in that interaction? Do they want to continue hanging with you, seeing you again? So it is important thing to remember, you know, for me, that, you know, maybe I'll. I'll challenge myself a little bit to, you know, do that. The third column, which is, you know, what I think, what I feel is what I say. Is that right? That I. Yeah.

A (22:00)

What I'm thinking. That's not my line. My very first coach said it to me. In 2009, I first approached a woman

B (22:08)

for the first time.

A (22:09)

Opening chapter of my book is all about that night. He said, yeah, when what you're thinking and feelings, what you're saying and doing, and he was trying to say, doesn't have to be perfect. It just. You can speak your real, true thoughts. He didn't say authentic, but basically, you are enough. Women like you for. He said women like you for you. I thought. No, women like me for my lines and game and cool, funky shirt. No.

B (22:35)

Yeah.

A (22:36)

So I still hold on to that, and it really helps.

B (22:39)

Yeah, that matches my experience as well.

A (22:42)

I'm gonna ask. I'm gonna ask you to. I give you permission to brag a little bit if you want to, about something.

B (22:47)

Okay.

A (22:49)

You've had a lot of great dating wins in our time together or since we started working together. You've approached. You've had a lot of dates. You've. You've a lot of cool. You've had a lot of cool experiences. Can you think, what's a moment you've shared with a woman where you said or did something and it made her noticeably more attracted to you? Or just a moment during a date where you could feel the eyes on you that she was really into you? It's probably happened many times, but do any specific moments jump out to you? That look of attraction, that look of, damn, this woman is into me.

B (23:32)

Yeah, I mean, I think, like, when an approach is successful, you know, And I think just, you know, really the things that you described, it's like if they're talking to you, that's a good sign, you know, if they're continuing. If your conversation goes five. Oh, my God, we're still talking at five minutes. Like, oh, we've been talking for 10 minutes. You know, we're. We're laughing, we're vibing, you know, oh, they. They asked for my number. You know, they asked for my Instagram. That shit just happened, really, you know, so there's definitely been some of those moments. I had a, you know, big. I call, like, a big win. And I think it was definitely a memorable moment recently with an approach where I was going on a camping trip and I was meeting friends. I think I was, like, up the coast a couple hours, and I had to, unfortunately come a day late. So everyone was there. They were at the beach. Big, big group of people, most of whom I knew. So I get there late. I'm like, in the afternoon, I'm walking up to the beach and the beaches. You got to, like, walk down some stairs to get there. So all down there, and then up there, you have, like, the Chang rooms, restaurant, whatever. And so I was getting ready to go down, get my stuff, and I was just kind of checking out the lay of the land up there and what they had. And. And there's this girl bikini with a little summer Dress. And I saw her, like, walk by, and she just went at one of the picnic benches and started reading. And I was like, you know, so, like, now my mind naturally goes to, like, after all this time, I'm just like, do I approach? You know, like, is this one I want? Is she cute? Do I into her? You know, whatever. So then I go into that. That mode of, all right, let's. Let's. Am I gonna do this? And so I was like, okay, she is really cute. And I. And we. We locked eyes for a second. She looked up at me, I looked at her, and then I kind of chickened out. And I'm like, all right, well, maybe I'll get a second chance. I'm just gonna go down and talk to my friends. And. And so I did. I went down, I hung out with them for, like, 30 minutes, caught up with everybody, and then I went back up because I was going to go for, like, a jog or something like that. And so as I'm getting my shoes on and ready, she's still there. Thirty minutes later, she's sitting, same bench. We look at each other again. I'm just like, all right, fuck it. Here we go. You know, Then a couple of people, I just walked up to her, and I was just like, well, you haven't moved much. It was, like, stupid like that. And she was like, I don't even think she understood what I was talking about. But we just, like, started a conversation that went, you know, five minutes, 10 minutes more. So we had a really good convo. And it was kind of funny because, yeah, I didn't know who she was. And I was like, yeah, like, we're. Because we're two hours out of Sydney. And I was like, oh, well, are you from here? Do you live here or something? She's like, no, I live in Sydney. I'm like, oh, you know, yeah, that's where I'm staying as well. And she's like, what part? She tells me, asks me what part. I'm like, I'm in Manly Beach. And she's like, oh, all. All my friends, all the people I'm here with are from Manly Beach. And I'm like, we're kind of, like, remote. There's not, like, that many people there. And I put it to him, like, I'm like, wait, are you with this group here? Like, this volleyball group? She's like, yeah. I'm like, really? I'm like, who are you? Because, like, I usually know everybody, you know? And she's like, oh, I was Just invited by a friend who's down there, and I decided to tag along. So she was actually with the group that I was with, so I was like, oh, okay. So now we're on a camping trip together, and we, like.

A (27:24)

By the way, how was she dressed again?

B (27:27)

Bikini. How she dress? Little. She's wearing a bikini in a summer dress, like, kind, you know, like, you're, you know, just like one of those, like, thin little, you know, things you put around when. Yeah. So looking fine as hell. Brazilian. That gives you any idea? So, yeah, so she's just, like. She's rocking it hard, and, yeah, she's, you know, super and then turned out. Yeah, I mean, she's, like, professional and smart and reads, and I'm just like, okay. Like, so we talk for, like, 10 minutes, 15, and I go, you know, go do my thing. We link back up down at the beach later. Now we're getting to, you know, time. We're all going, you know, she's like, oh, I'm heading back to, you know, the campsite or whatever. I'm gonna go shower, and maybe we'll catch up after. I'm like, okay, yeah, I'll go do that. And so we exchanged numbers. I think she maybe even she asked for my number. Like, okay, we exchanged numbers. And then maybe a little bit later, I texted her, and I was like, hey, what do you think about finding, like, a cool place to watch the sunset? And she's like, oh. She's like, yeah, that sounds good. I'm like, all right. Things are going well. So I go back, we hang out at the campsite for a bit, you know, and again, there's, like, 20 plus people. And then I was like. And I was kind of, like, not in my head, but I was kind of like, this would be a little awkward, you know, whatever. Just, like, me and her, like, we just met. Now we're gonna, like, run away from the group and, like, get in the camper van I rented and go, you know, to this lighthouse or whatever. So I felt, like, kind of compelled to, like, ask people, like, hey, we're gonna, you know, maybe go to the. Do we want to get a group together? And they're like, well, we're waiting. They're gonna bring a cake for this person's birthday and this. That. I'm like, oh. And I'm just. Then we just snuck out. I'm like, all right, perfect. We just dipped out and went to this lighthouse. I mean, it was just the most, like, romantic. And so literally, it's two hours later, we're holding hands down the beach and like in this just like ultimate romantic situation. And yeah, and you know, I'm six weeks later, we're still talking and hanging

A (29:41)

out, you know, so you approach this beautiful Brazilian woman, she's in a bikini, she's stunning. And the fancy amazing line you said again, was for your opener, was you haven't moved much.

B (29:57)

See, most men think that was maybe more an off the cuff. It's like it, you know, most men

A (30:04)

think flirting and most men think flirting approaching is about clever lines. It's about saying one simple thing, committing to it, and starting a conversation that can lead to six weeks later, you're still, you're still getting together with her. You too can date a gorgeous, bikini Brazilian woman. Yeah.

B (30:25)

Yeah. Well, I'll tell you this, this is an interesting, like, little fun cultural fact because again, where I'm at now, it's just people from all over the world. So I've actually been learning a lot living here about all sorts of different cultures and talking to women here and their experience. And so apparently Brazilian guys, they don't give a. Like, they will go, like approaching is not an issue for them, maybe to a fault, right? So that's more in their culture, they'll go, hey, baby, like, whatever, like almost to a point where it could be off putting. And so for like a Brazil, they're just like so used to it. But then they come here to like a western country and apparently the Australian guys here will not do that. They will never approach. They don't go buy you a drink, they don't show interest. And so then it's like the other like the opposite where they kind of want that from a different type of guy. So then when you do it as like a Western Westerner, but, you know, just a gringo, let's just say, like that really impresses them because, you know, and even not just the Brazilian group, but like the, like a lot of the women are experiencing so, so many of them say what you say, which is like they want to be approached and they're craving it. So when I did that with her, like, I think she like immediately was kind of was hooked, you know, Like, I, like, she was, you know, kind of like what you talked about at the beginning in your opener, how to get them to that point where they can't stop thinking about you or whatever the line you use. But I just, it wasn't this feeling like, okay, I need to impress them, you know, like, okay, I got their interest, but I need to try this, this. It was just. It was just natural and it was a mutual vibe. And I could just tell midway through. I'm like, this girl's like, in. You know, we're like three minutes in and she's already. And I made some joke because she's like, she's a citizen here in Australia now. And I was talking about, like, you know, my visa, if I'm going to move here. I'm not a citizen resident. I was like, oh, maybe we could just get married. And she was like, oh, haha. Yeah. And I was like, oh, I'm just kidding. And she's like, what? She was like, upset. I was like, joking. Like, she like, almost like, like thought that was like romantic or funny that I said that and was almost offended. I was like, oh, I'm just kidding. She's like, what do you mean you're kidding? You don't want to marry me? Yeah. So I don't know. It was just. It was just kind of one of those things where everything lined up in this, like, incredible way and every. It's just like the formula worked to a T. So how have you ever

A (33:11)

felt that you created a real spark with a woman? Just through your eyes, eye contact and your overall vibe, you know, you have sort of, if I may say, you have this kind of smoldering chill, like, you know, hot, searing coals kind of vibe. I would think that women would feel. Do you ever find yourself making some sparks happen? Not with what you say, but your voice, your eye contact?

B (33:39)

Yeah, and, you know, that's something I actually struggle with, was eye contact. And I didn't. It was something that was a blind spot I didn't realize I was doing. I would, like, look away, you know, kind of like I'm the beta because I look away first. You know, it's like. Right. But. But yeah, there's definitely power to that. Something I like, I need to remember to hold eye contact and not kind of act of afraid or, you know, there's sometimes, you know, it's almost like. I think there's like levels of intimacy about it. Sometimes that intimacy could be uncomfortable, of eye contact that sustained. It's just very powerful. So sometimes, you know, to me, it's like looking at the sun. So I kind of look away and it's just like too much, it's too direct. You know, there's some cultural elements sometimes with it, but yeah, when I was at the bar the other night and this girl I actually had known before and she came and like, hit on me like two Years ago, and we've, like, kind of been in touch. We never, like, did anything with it, but there I ran into her again, and it had been a while, and I just, like. I went into that mode where I was just, like, staring her in the eyes and being extremely confident, and I could just tell how powerful it was, you know, or, like, taking her by the arm of, like, yeah, now you're with me. And, like, I want to kiss you right now. And.

A (34:59)

Right.

B (34:59)

You know, like. Like stuff like that and just not hesitating. And I think. I mean, that applies to a lot of things, but it's like that. Let's see, you use some line where it's like, safe is dangerous or something, and dangerous is safe or risk or something like that. Where it's just like, full commitment. If, like, I'm scared to jump from one ledge to the other and I foot it, well, I'm gonna fall. Like, I need to go full commitment, right?

A (35:30)

What feels risky in dating and flirting is safe. And what feels safe is risky. You know? Icon Deep eye contact might feel unsafe to you might feel risky, but it's the safest smart thing to do because you're committing to that laser eye contact where if you're looking away, you don't want to be, you know, you don't want to I her. Well, she might want you to I her. That might be her channel, that she. That unlocks a feeling of arousal and passion. Now, I'm not saying right out of the gate when you approach her, but, you know, 30, 20 minutes in or maybe on a first date.

B (36:09)

Yeah, yeah. That's absolutely extremely powerful. Make them look away first.

A (36:15)

You can. If you get stuck in the friend zone, you can get out of the friend zone with your eyes and the way you look at a woman. I remember I was on a first date in Venice, California. I'd approached a woman. Her name is Vanessa. And I got her number a night earlier. We go on a Tuesday night date, and we're sitting on a rooftop bar right on the ocean. And I don't remember anything witty or funny or amazing I said that night. But I remember looking at her with this wolfish eye contact, and it was genuine. I was super aroused and turned on by her. And it was toward the end of a pretty darn good date. And toward the end of the date, she.

B (36:58)

She.

A (36:58)

She could feel me giving her the Kubrick stare, maybe. And she said, you're looking at me like I'm dessert.

B (37:08)

Hell, yeah.

A (37:09)

And. But she meant it in a good way. Fast forward 20, 30 minutes later, we leave the venue and walk back to my hotel, which was walkable. And she's in the hallway of my hotel. She starts unbuttoning her top in the hallway. That had never happened to me. I don't. I don't think it's happened to me since, frankly, but it never happened to me before. She was taking her clothes off to say, I am yours. Let's go. I'm not even gonna wait till I get in your hotel. That's the power of that. That wolfish eye contact. And what's happening is that you are transferring onto her your raw, animal desire, and she's feeling it. And if she feels something similar for you, boom. That's just nature, baby. There's nothing wrong with that.

B (37:51)

Yeah. Yeah. That is universally the way to go to have that. Like, you're the fucking man, you know? Or like, not like that, but like. Yeah, you just have that level of confidence and you have that, like, intensity toward them. And I think some guys may think that you're, like, over committing or you're, like, seeming kind of needy. You were like, I want you so bad. But it is. It's just a different vibe. It's just like. It's not like, I like you and, like, I hope you like me. It's like, no, I'm gonna take you back to my apartment and shit's gonna go down.

A (38:29)

Hell, yeah.

B (38:30)

You know, like having that, you know, now again. So, like, actually, this example that was pretty good that I was saying before, because I. I just, like, I don't know. I just went into it with her, you know, and I just. Yeah, you know, because I kind of knew her, whatever. And I was like, you know, you and I have unfinished business because we cross paths, but nothing ever escalated. I'm like, you and I have unfinished business. And she's like, really? I'm like, yeah, you know what I'm talking about. And you could just tell. She was like, you know. And then, yes, sir. So I grabbed her by the arm and I looked at her and I pulled her toward me. And I could tell she was a little. I could tell she was a little hesitant, though. She was, like, intrigued, but she was like, I don't know. I don't know about here. And it was something. I was like, yeah, I want to. I was like. She knew. I was like, yeah, I want to kiss you right now. And she's like, I don't know, not. Not here. And I was, you know. So I, you know, backed off a little bit. I Still kind of kept that attitude. And, you know, it turned out she was like, I'm in a relationship. Or like it, you know, she was, you know, conflicted about it. But I knew, though, and at the same time that she wanted me. And I think I said to her too, I was just like, again, I wasn't like super invested in outcome. I'm like looked around like, how about I kiss you on the cheek? And she goes, that's okay. So I do it in kind of like a sexy way. And then I just stared her in the eye and you could tell and I was like, you like that, didn't you? And she was like, yeah, you know, yeah. So it works if you can maintain that look. I mean, if you look at women's romance novels and books, that's how the guy is. Or like 50 shades of gray, it's like, I know what I want. I want you. I'm gonna take it. Versus, like, I want you. Do you want me too?

A (40:26)

Right?

B (40:26)

You know, it's like, I know you do. And worst case scenario, you're wrong or they're not. And then you just kind of get out of that mode and say, okay, yeah, that's funny. Being just like a nice dude. And it's like, okay, they're not interested or they're not ready or whatever. And then I just go back to, you know, I get out of like ethical predator mode. Let's call it. I love it.

A (40:52)

Hashtag ethical predator.

B (40:54)

Yeah, I think that's. Yeah, that's a thing. Yeah. You want to be an ethical predator?

A (41:01)

Well, there's nothing wrong with a man who has romantic sexual desire. And women have it too. I was just out with a client. I'll call him Aaron. We were approaching today in New York City and I said, you should make no apology for your desire as a 32 year old man, single, young, virile, to walk up to a woman and say, hey, I just saw you and I wanted to meet you. Look at her with a look of intent. Not intensity, but intent. I am here to flirt with you. I'm a man. You're a woman. Why wouldn't I do that? There's nothing wrong with that. It's ethical predation.

B (41:37)

Yeah, yeah.

A (41:38)

There are wolves on the prowl.

B (41:39)

What's wrong with that? Well, and there's levels to it too. Right? So you do it in this. Like I'm this confident guy who's going to come approach you and flirt with you. Like, I'm not going to do what I just did to that girl. Like at Starbucks during the day and be like, I'm going to take you back to my place and yeah, shit's going down kind of thing. But like, as it escalates, you know, it goes from the approach and you know, it gets p. You know, it gets confident GPG PG 13 and eventually just feel it out to the point where it gets rated R and then that gets rated X and things get really interesting. But you could keep that, you keep that vibe throughout and you know, and there's a time to turn it on and there's a time to, you know, pull back a little bit from it. Right. You know, if you could tell they're pushing their comfort zone. And I think something you teach as well is just because they say no doesn't mean I'm. The answer is like actually no in the long term, it's just no then. So you don't have to go back to being this like pussy footed, like, oh, I'm sorry and apologize.

A (42:43)

Right.

B (42:43)

But you could, like, you could confidently respect them.

A (42:49)

Yeah.

B (42:49)

You know what I'm saying? Like you can stay in that mode and still pull away and be respectful. And I think there's powerful too because then, because then they, because you want them to still feel comfortable. Right, Right. Like, I feel like there's like a, an optimal zone of pushing the comfort zone. A little bit of like this feels a little dangerous. But then if they, you know, but then you could pull it back and then they feel comfortable because they see that you can read the room and you could read them.

A (43:16)

Yeah. You can walk up to a woman, be very direct, but G rated and gentlemanly and women love it. And there is a time and place to then escalate things. So quick story. I dated a woman named Alexis many years ago. And I approached her one weekday afternoon as she and her friend were walking out. They were leaving forever 21. And I approached Alexis and her friend and I said, hey, I just wanted to come over to you and say, you're adorable. I had to meet you to Alexis. And I said hello to her friend, got numbers, went on a first date. Fast forward to the morning after our first date. Alexis came back to my place. The date went well. She spent the night and we're lying in bed and she said, you know what I loved about how you approached me? It was so innocent. She used that word. It was innocent. You called me adorable. What's hilarious is she said this to me as we're naked in bed and we had just gotten done having sex on every piece of furniture in my studio apartment. And she's telling me how much she loved the innocent way I approached her. And there's a real lesson there. You can and should approach a woman with G rated innocence, clarity, at least in the daytime. Hey, what's up? I saw you. You're adorable. You're really cute. I had to meet you. Innocent women love it. Things can get PG and R and X later, but you start with G and it gives women the sense of respect and kindness, social respect. But hey, there will be a time and a place to get sexy and sexual. So my tip is approach. G rated approach. Move, move toward R and X as things progress.

B (45:02)

Yeah, 100%. And you know, and you could still have that, like, we'll call it the EP mindset, Ethical Predator.

A (45:12)

You know, Ethical predator dot com. Nobody steal it. I just went on godaddy, it's mine.

B (45:19)

Yeah, yeah, I'll let you take it.

A (45:22)

A couple final things here we can wrap up. I'd love to. If you have any lessons you learned of like, oh man, gosh, Connell. I used to make this flirting mistake on a date. I used to do, make, say or do the wrong thing. What's a big lesson you've learned and you've since, you've since righted the wrong. You've corrected it. But what's a flirting or dating mistake you used to make and you have long since corrected it?

B (45:49)

Yeah, I think we touched on it a bit. I think a big one was expression of interest and intent. Yeah. Making sure it's romantic. I, I, yeah, I had this, just like a quick story. I had this happen where girl, another South American girl and bikini with a little beach shawl, eating some ice cream, went up to her and said something like, you're making me jealous or something. That looks really good or whatever. We have a great conversation. She's a chef. I love cooking. I sometimes make cooking videos. She does too. So I'm like, oh my God, we're vibing. I get her number and we're like, have a plan to make a cooking video.

A (46:30)

Right.

B (46:30)

And then I started being a little more flirtatious, though, in the text, and maybe I didn't do it enough. And then she acted surprised when it became clear that I wanted it to be a date. And she even said like, oh, I thought we were just doing this as friends, like, oh, I have a boyfriend or something. And I was just like, yeah, crushed. I don't know the right word, but I was definitely like, thrown off. I mean, I think she, I mean, there's maybe some fault on her end. I mean because it's like, come on, like we're, it's freaking obvious. But I guess it wasn't enough, you know, and I should, and I really process wise should have done that. So I think that that's a big one is being very clear and I had that happen again or maybe I wasn't. Or I went out with the girl and maybe she wasn't as clear until like I felt more comfortable in the texting of it, you know. But I need to do it in the moment and remember and remember that because it does go well. So I think not being afraid to show intent at that stage and, and throughout is a. Probably the. One of the biggest ones that I, I keep in mind outside of the many other lessons.

A (47:42)

Maybe the two most important words in flirting with women is or are I want. I want to take you on a date. I want. I wanted to meet you. I want to see you again. I've had a great time with you. I want to have a drink with you at my place. I want you to spend the night. I want. There's something really powerful about a man telling a woman what he wants and telling her why he wants her as long as it is obviously consensual and ethical. But man, that's really powerful to women. Most men, yeah, I would say most men are afraid to say here's what I want, I want you. And a lot of women are like, why won't a guy come up and just put it out there? And yeah, those are the two sexiest words. Just say, here's what I want. I want you.

B (48:38)

Totally agree. Yeah, that absolutely has kind of going back to the theme of how to get them hooked or to not stop thinking about you. It is that, you know, that all plays into that vibe, you know, the ep. This is what I want. I want you. Yeah, One more question. So I'm sober. You know, I haven't drank in many years and so sometimes I'm self conscious about that because it is so popular or common in dating. What are your thoughts on that?

A (49:11)

Own it. Sober is sexy. You just want to mention it before you meet in case she feels weird being the only one drinking. But you may as well own it because it's really hard to hide sobriety when you're sipping a Shirley Temple through a swirly straw, which is really tough to do.

B (49:29)

So sometimes I notice I fall into interview mode on first dates. Do you think that's something I should stop doing?

A (49:37)

I don't know what do you think? How was your weekend? What do you do, by the way? Do you have siblings? When did you last cry, Evan? Who killed jfk? Are birds robots? Why are plants so chill? Where were you on the night of January 14, 2014? And does Wyoming even actually exist? I have more questions for you. Or do you want to just answer those? Anyway, Evan, thank you so much for again being my unofficial co host here on how to get a girlfriend. And you and I will talk later. We're going to create the ethical. What was it? Ethical Predator.com.

B (50:15)

i think we'll see. Like a. We'll do a guidebook. Let's co write a guidebook called the Ethical Predator. The Ethical Predator. What's it. What would be the tagline of that?

A (50:29)

Oh man. The ethical Predator.

B (50:32)

How to make. How to make women. How to be irresistible to women. Right. How to be.

A (50:39)

How to be irresistible. Irresistible to women with consent, whether they like it or not.

B (50:48)

Yeah. And then there's got to be some kind of wolf. There's got to be some kind of wolf in the COVID Yeah, right. Like maybe wolf man just like drool. Like this looks like a rabid wolf, but it's like nice too. But it's also like a gentleman and it's like passing like holding roses or something.

A (51:10)

Exactly. It's like a. A werewolf. And how about a werewolf in a tuxedo?

B (51:16)

Yeah, my favorite chivalrous.

A (51:20)

I'm trying to get my girlfriend to watch one of my favorite movies ever, American Werewolf in London, which is about a werewolf with a heart of gold. So anyway, anyway, thanks for being here, Evan. And by the way, thank you for listening slash watching. And if you would like to find out how my dating coaching works and how you too can be an ethical predator, go to datingtransformation.com no, just kidding. Just kidding. Go to datingtransformation.com and you can book a call to talk with me or somebody on my team and find out how this approaching dating. Flirting things. Flirting thing works with Connell Barrett. Anyway, datingtransformation.com thanks again for being here, Evan.

B (52:12)

Sam.