‘I Was Getting Ghosted on the Dating Apps, but Now Women Reply to My Openers’ (Live Coaching with Evan)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: How to Get a Girlfriend with Connell Barrett

Episode: ‘I Was Getting Ghosted on the Dating Apps, but Now Women Reply to My Openers’ (Live Coaching with Evan)
Date: January 15, 2026
Host: Connell Barrett
Guest: Evan (Client, Live Coaching)

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Episode Overview

This episode features a candid conversation between dating coach Connell Barrett and his client Evan, focusing on Evan's transformation from struggling with dating anxiety and ghosting to confidently connecting with women, especially through authentic approaches and witty openers. The discussion revolves around practical dating strategies, overcoming rejection, the power of humor, and managing dating expectations. It teems with personal stories, actionable advice, and real-world examples of applying “radical authenticity” in dating.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Evan’s Early Struggles & Breakthroughs

• Anxiety with Approaching: Evan shares how nerve-wracking approaching women initially was, recounting leaving his number for a barista with “hands shaking” ([01:50]–[03:20]).
  • Quote: “I just kind of did like a drop and run and my hands were shaking... That was like a huge wake up call. I'm like, this is really, you know, something that is anxiety provoking.” – Evan ([02:38])
• Progression Through Practice: By pushing himself and logging his approaches, Evan gradually became more comfortable, achieving a “night and day” improvement.
• Helping Others: Evan’s successes started inspiring friends to approach women and even give advice to others ([04:41]–[05:36]).

2. What to Say When Approaching – From Script to Authenticity

• Connell’s Advice: Move from worrying “what do I say?” to noticing things in the moment and giving genuine compliments ([07:23]).
  • Quote: “Instead of ‘what do I say?’... ask, what do I notice? Or what can I ask her that makes sense?” – Connell ([07:23])
• Evan’s Approach: Prefers situational openers, like referencing someone’s work or environment, and always keeps it light ([06:01]).
  • Example: “Are you still working past five? That could be poor work boundaries.” ([06:10])
• Genuine Compliments: Focus on something specific and authentic, not canned pickup lines ([08:03]–[08:50]).

3. Overcoming Rejection and Building Resilience

• Connell’s Perspective: Emphasizes that rejection isn’t catastrophic; most negative scenarios are overblown and rarely happen ([12:19]–[15:28]).
  • Quote: “The thing we're afraid of almost never happens. Usually, she's just going to be like, ‘well, nice meeting you’ and go back to her laptop.” – Connell ([15:28])
• Cringe and Humor: Evan shares a “cringe” story about approaching a woman while on crutches, and both reflect on how humor can make rejection less scary ([14:03]–[15:22]).
  • Quote: “You just get—you just gotta be comfortable with the cringe.” – Evan ([15:22])

4. The Power of Humor & Playfulness

• Using Humor in Apps and In-Person: Evan details how witty, teasing openers (“Are you the Alyssa everyone’s been talking about?”; “Like and follow for part two”) work well on dating apps ([18:32]–[20:25]).
• Connell’s Take: Humor signals a non-boring date and alleviates women’s concerns that the date will be dull ([20:25]).
  • Quote: “When you can make a woman laugh, you’re not just entertaining her...you’re sending a really sharp signal...” – Connell ([20:25])
• Prepared Playfulness: Evan keeps a “bank” of fun questions to break tension and spark conversation, both via text and on dates ([23:05]–[25:20]).

5. Curating Memorable Dates & Taking the Lead

• Story: The Clifftop Makeout ([09:08]–[12:08]): Evan recounts a successful approach leading to an impromptu scenic hike and a makeout on a cliff, emphasizing the importance of having unique date ideas in your “back pocket.”
  • Quote: “Having these spots is so huge for like good dates...you go up there, you’re making out nine out of 10.” – Evan ([10:08])
• Leadership & Planning: Repeatedly, both advocate for men to “take the lead” – plan dates, curate experiences, and give women choices without being indecisive ([30:40]–[32:38]).
  • Quote: “Take the lead. Curate an experience. Don’t be afraid to do so because they like that.” – Evan ([32:01])
  • Quote: “I love the word ‘let’s’ because it shows leadership, but it’s not in some kind of weird, toxic, bossy...alpha, fake male way.” – Connell ([33:02])

6. Navigating Ghosting and Shifting Vibes

• A Real-World Dilemma ([36:24]–[55:09]):
  • Evan describes a phenomenal first date, followed by promising text exchanges, then a sudden drop-off in interest (“vibe shift”).
  • Connell advises managing expectations ("detach from outcome"), setting gentle boundaries about communication, and not overanalyzing shifts unless clear evidence emerges ([41:38]–[45:09]).
  • Quote: “We want to take the warrior's mindset of dying to the past, dying to the future…as much as possible, let go of any expectations with a woman you barely know.” – Connell ([41:38])
  • Don't confront the "elephant in the room" about texting right away; instead, focus on planning a win-win for a next date and respond to her actual behavior ([49:57]–[51:05]).

7. Sex, Chivalry, and the “Too Good/Too Fast” Question

• Sex on First Date: Connell and Evan discuss whether moving too fast can be a red flag; Connell says pace depends on mutual comfort, not a set rule ([56:44]–[59:58]).
  • Quote: “I have no problems with first date sex at all. As long as you and she are both into it, comfortable with it, that’s all that really matters.” – Connell ([59:58])
• Chivalry: Evan brings up the varying degrees women want chivalry, from opening doors to sending “did you get home safe?” texts ([60:38]–[63:45]).
  • Advice: Err on the side of more chivalry and leadership, but in a genuine way true to yourself ([62:20]–[63:02]).
  • Quote: “Err on the side of being a little bit too chivalrous. Not enough, because it’s good karma.” – Connell ([63:02])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Feeling the Fear, Doing it Anyway: “I was walking away…I was like, afraid and that was, like, a huge wake up call.” – Evan ([02:38])
• Cringe is Okay: “You just gotta be comfortable with the cringe.” – Evan ([15:22])
• ‘Let’s’ Shows Leadership: “I love the word ‘let’s’ because it shows leadership, but it’s not in some…toxic, bossy...alpha, fake male way.” – Connell ([33:02])
• Chemistry Can Surprise You: “I’ve had mediocre seeming first dates…second and third things skyrocketed…” – Connell ([47:44])
• Outcome Independence: “Play it one day at a time, one text at a time. Not gonna let a woman’s texting decide how happy I’m gonna be.” – Connell ([53:02])
• Chivalry in Practice: “Are you someone who likes chivalry 0 to 10? ...Oh, so not quite a 10.” – Evan ([61:33])

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Memorable Segments & Timestamps

• First Approach Story: [01:50]
• Clifftop Makeout Story: [09:08]
• “Cringe” Target/Coffee Shop Story: [14:03]
• Witty Dating App Openers: [18:32]
• Pattern Interrupt Questions & Playful Conversation: [21:10], [23:05], [25:20]
• Date Planning & Leadership: [30:40]–[32:38], [33:02]
• Managing Ghosting and Expectations: [36:24]–[41:38], [41:38]–[45:09]
• Chivalry & Individual Preferences: [60:38]–[63:45]

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Tone & Style

• Candid & Humorous: Both Connell and Evan speak authentically, using self-deprecating humor and unfiltered stories.
• Supportive & Encouraging: Connell affirms Evan’s growth, focuses on practical advice, and often circles back to celebrate progress.
• No “Pickup Artist” Nonsense: The entire dialogue steers away from manipulative tactics, prioritizing fun, authenticity, and kindness.

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Actionable Takeaways

• Push through approach anxiety—practice makes it easier.
• Use genuine, situational openers rather than canned lines.
• Don’t fear rejection—it’s rarely as bad as we imagine.
• Employ humor and playfulness both online and in person.
• Lead proactively in planning dates, but check in with her preferences.
• Don’t over-interpret texting patterns; focus on real-life outcomes.
• Be chivalrous in a way that feels authentic to you; adjust based on her cues but don’t overthink it.
• Sex on the first date isn’t a death sentence to a relationship—follow mutual comfort instead of rigid rules.
• When faced with ghosting or vibe-shifts, lean into abundance, take action elsewhere, and don’t cling to outcome.

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Conclusion

Evan’s journey illustrates how “radical authenticity,” humor, and taking the lead can transform dating experiences for introverted or intelligent “nice guys.” The key isn’t game or manipulation but being real, playful, and persistent—embracing discomfort and enjoying the process.

Final quote from Evan:
“It seriously changed my life and probably in more ways than just even just like dating outcomes and stuff.” ([64:33])

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Transcript

[A]

Is like, one of my spots there that, like, you're. You go up there, you're making out nine out of 10. I got a couple spots here, I got spots there. These are, like, jaw dropping. This is gorgeous. Wind blow, you know, whatever. And within 30 minutes, we're making out on the top of this cliff.

[B]

All right, welcome back to the how to Get a Girlfriend podcast. I am your host, dating coach Connell Barrett, helping you attract women by being authentic. And speaking of authentic, I have a very authentic, real, raw person joining me today. I'm always excited to have a client come on and talk about some of his wins, some of his past struggles, and also what he wants to achieve next. Joining me today is my client, Evan. Evan is a great guy. We've been working together. He first came to me because he was struggling with a couple things, like lack of confidence with women. Maybe he needed a little help with little push with approaching, and he just wanted to find some real deeper connections and get much better at flirting and connecting with women and not using a bunch of pickup stuff to do it. So. Joining us today is Evan. Evan, welcome to the podcast.

[A]

Thanks for having me. It's super cool to go from starting to listen and now being here on it. So nice.

[B]

I love having a guy with some advanced dating issues. I. What I like about you is you're very genuine. You're super real and raw with women. You're funny, you're playful, and there's different parts of dating you've been working on, working on the dating apps, working on approaching and coffee shops. Give us a quick overview of. Of where your dating life is right now and also how I can help you today.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, going from where I was, I think it really is night and day, you know, and really trying to practice those principles, you know, in the coaching and your modules and what you talk about in the podcast. And I think it started really with approaching, you know, learning those things as we. We went, but really just pushing myself to approach. And at the time, I was, you know, in a little beach town in Australia, which is cuties all over. So it was a. It was a perfect training ground, to say the least. And I remember, like, the first time, and this is, like, really early on, maybe I first started listening to you, where I did an approach, where I left a girl my number at the coffee shop that I go to every day, and my hands when I walked, and I like, I was too afraid to even, like, say anything. She had her headphones on. I left her, like, cute note or whatever. Being like, hey, I think you're cute. I don't remember what I said. And she did get back to me. Nothing really came from there, although we kind of became buddies later. But she. But I remember I was walking away, I just kind of did like a drop and run and my hands were shaking. Like my adrenaline, like I was like, oh my God, like I've been in some messed up situation. But like I was like afraid and that was like a huge wake up call. I'm like, this is really, you know, something that is anxiety provoking. And yeah, so I just put, you know, I just like it. I pushed through it and did some more approaches and you know, instead of running away, actually like, you know, facilitated conversations and tried to like play to my strengths, which is, you know, funny banter. And Yeah, I mean, it just started working and not everyone necessarily led to something, but probably half the time or more I would get a number and we'd chat and sometimes it would lead to something, you know, have the hands.

[B]

Stop shaking as much, I hope.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. You know, there's still that anxiety, you know, sometimes more than others and sometimes I'll still chicken out a little bit, but, you know, but deep down I know it's not scary and I still do the approaches and it never goes poorly. You know, that was the thing I think I had to learn was that nothing bad happens. You know, Like, I've had a couple that were like awkward and unpleasant. But like, I don't know, I probably, you know, I started kind of recorded them as we were really kind of deep in the coaching process and I kind of kept a log and I probably estimate that I've done about 80 or 90 even approaches since we started.

[B]

Hey, you would send me these detailed notes. Debbie on the beach with the cut off shirt or whatever. It's great.

[A]

It was kind of fun to do that, you know, and like use chat GPT to like help me organize everything and.

[B]

Yeah, and have it use chat.

[A]

Oh yeah. And I'd have it run metrics and stuff. I'd be like, okay, like, is there certain places or certain things that I said that, you know, that that played better than others and yeah, so I think that was a huge thing. It was just. And was so funny is, you know, I got a group of friends out there and a bunch of single guys and they kind of noticed this, right? And they noticed me doing this. And we go out at night and I would just go approach and like, dude, how do you do that? You was like. And they would ask Me and I'd start like, you know, you know, I was like the blue belt teaching the white belt kind of thing. You know, as. As I was learning and, you know, and actually inspired a lot of people and some of these single guys that were struggling and I was able to help them out a little bit and helped a couple guys find girls. And even, like I was telling you, one woman, like a divorced woman that hung out with us, she would like get my advice and stuff about look at you. Really. It was really funny.

[B]

Coach Evan going at it.

[A]

I know. Yeah.

[B]

Well, you mentioned shaking hands, which are listener knows about wanting to approach or doing it with shaking hands or maybe just wanting to, but being too afraid. The most common, one of the most common questions I hear from guys who want to meet women out in the world is what do I say? What the heck do you say? What is your answer to that question? What do you say when you approach a woman? How do you figure it out?

[A]

What I learned from you? You know, you kind of have some, you could have some preset lines that work well. But I, you know, I've always really liked, you know, something in the moment, something relevant to the situation. So I did one that, you know, like, it led to some really fun conversation and banter. But it was at the coffee shopping as, you know, I just spend all my time there. But there was a girl, she was sitting at the kind of bar area, the coffee shop. And I think it was like 6 o' clock or something like that. And I just made some joke. I'm like, are you still working past five? I was like, you know, that could be. That's poor work boundaries. Or I made some joke and she laughed and I was like, what do you, you know, sometimes I'm just like, hey, what are you working on? You know, she looks like you're working on something interesting. And she was working on. She was like a manager of a different coffee shop and she was working on a. A spring menu. I kind of helped her. I was like, oh, here's some ideas. You know, I came up with. I'm like, oh, I love to cook and stuff. Why don't you do a. Like this? She's like, oh, that's a good. So we, so we just shot the. For like 30 minutes and you know, read the room to be like, okay, she's still interested in talking. And yeah, I got her number and I think she was probably seeing someone else because she was kind of like, oh, I got. I'm meeting someone at this place and. But Whatever. But it. I don't know, it was just. It was fun and, you know, probably not going to go anywhere and I'm going to go back to Australia for a while, but it was just. It was just fun. I mean, every time you feel better about yourself for doing it, even if it doesn't lead to them being in your bed.

[B]

I like that. Yeah. I'd like to change the question from what do I say? Which is an understandable question to ask yourself, but it's not necessarily helpful because what we're really asking ourselves is, is what's the perfect thing to say to not get rejected? And there's really no such thing. We never know until we try. Instead of what what do I say? I like to ask myself, what do I notice? Yeah, or what can I ask her? That makes sense. Or also, maybe there's a compliment. What can I. What can I say to compliment her that's genuine? And if you ask yourself one of those three questions, then the words will come to you in a more spontaneous way. Did you have that feeling? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And I've done this. So that was just one example. But, yeah, I've done that, too. I mean, I like. I think. I think complimenting style goes a long way. Like, so I find something interesting and, you know, kind of like, hey, there's a reason why I'm coming up to you because I think, you know, I think you have great style, and I think people like compliments and I like your philosophy of maybe the, you know, GPG compliments and making, you know, making sure it's genuine and really just like anything that starts, the kind, you know, just a conversation starter at the end of the day. And, you know, from there, you know, I think that's just the hardest part, is breaking the ice. And once you do that, it just leads, you know, just being a good conversationalist and, you know, using all. All those tons of principles that you, you know, teach from there and just.

[B]

Letting it tell me. Remind me if you would. This will come to me once you start retelling some of your anecdotes. But what was the first approach where you felt like, oh, man, I could feel the sparks, or I got the number and then the date, or any kind of little breakthrough moment you had.

[A]

I'll give you one. It was maybe like a couple months into it, but this one was just like kind of one of those couldn't have gone any better moments where at the coffee shop is pretty.

[B]

You're the coffee shop guy.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

I was too.

[A]

Yeah. So it's kind of busy as a weekend. So it's busy. It's like a beach town. A lot like tourists and stuff come. So it's like a busier weekend. And so there's a seat, one seat open next to me. And this girl, I notice her walks in wearing like kind of fit girl spandex, you know, workout stuff or whatever. And I'm like, damn, she's really pretty. And she was like, kind of looking for an outlet to charge her phone. And she did. And I was like, oh, hey, would you like to sit here? Like, feel free to sit down because there's a seat there. And I was like, did you put it in airplane mode? She's like, what? Well, it'll charge fast. I'm like, it'll charge faster, you know, if you put it in airplane mode or something silly like that. And she's like, oh, yeah, good idea. And I mean, she was just like super hot Brazilian girl, you know, living in Australia. And she was actually a couple hours away but down because there was like floods or whatever. So she just came down to Sydney and so she didn't know the area well. So I was, you know, telling her about the town here and some cool stuff to do and we just had a good conversation and I was just like, hey, you want me to show you something cool? She's like, yeah. I'm like, I want to. You know, I'm like, there's this really cool, you know, like, overlook this cliff that very few people know about. And it's absolutely gorgeous. I'm like, I'm done working, you know, I'd love to take you. She's like, oh yeah. Because she really had nothing to do. And you know, within, you know, 10 minutes of meeting, we walk, you know, 15, 20 minute walk to this other beach. Walked up on a cliff over, I mean, just gorgeous. That's another thing too. You get like having these spots is so huge for like good dates or whatever. So this is like one. This is like one of my spots there that like you're. You go up there, you're making out nine out of 10. I got a couple spots here, I got spots there. These are like jaw dropping. This is gorgeous. Wind blow, you know, whatever. And within 30 minutes we're making out on the top of this cliff. And then I had a. I think it was my brother's birthday out there. And we all went out one night and. And we were still texting and I was like, hey, you can stay with me if you want. You Know, because she had. I don't know if she was gonna sleep in her car or find something. And so she picked me up, you know, after my brother's birthday thing, went back to my place. She spent the night. And, you know, and it was kind of funny because, like, my brother's friends were there. They're like. Because they're kind of figuring out, okay, who's driving who home or whatever. I'm like, oh, I'm good. I guess I'm like, who's picking up, like, that's Brazilian girl I met, like, two hours ago. They're like, what? Like, you know, so it's kind of funny, like, you know what other people kind of see as you practice these principles and get these, like, awesome results, you know? So I don't know. That was one that stuck out. That was.

[B]

You had me at clifftop makeout. I'm all in.

[A]

Oh, man. I'm telling you, that's like. You got a good. You need a few good nature spots in your back pocket. And how about this?

[B]

This is kind of a. A question I don't ask often. Sometimes the best approaches are. Are the ones that don't go well or you get, quote, rejected. But then you realize nothing bad happened. The sky didn't fall. Like, one story I've told. I've told the story of my big approach success that opens my book many times on the podcast. What I've rarely talked about is the very first woman I ever approached in my life that same night didn't make it into my book because it's not a sexy story, but I just walked up to a cute drunk chick on a rooftop in New York City, and she talked to me. She's wearing a white cowboy hat. She talked to me for two minutes.

[A]

She was polite.

[B]

She just wasn't that into it. She just walked away. She's like, well, nice meeting you. She walked away. And I said to myself, wait, I'm still here. I'm corporeal. She kind of blew me off. But she was not a me. She wasn't mean about it. She just wasn't into me. I can't. I was like, I. I've been afraid of that for 38 years. That's not so bad. And that was very freeing. Did you have any responses where it didn't go that well, and you laughed it off and realized, hey, it's all good?

[A]

Here's. Here's a good one? I mean, this is late. This is like, later in the game. But, yeah, I think early on, you know, that's what's going to happen. And that I think that is, like, super important at the beginning to have those experiences and be like, this did not go poorly at all.

[B]

And.

[A]

Yeah, exactly what you said. And that it's very freeing. And the anxiety goes away. That's like, worst case scenario, right? And, you know, I remember a couple times in my Starbucks, you know, playing grounds, I, you know, I had a girl, you know, just kind of like, it was nice to meet you. So when they say that, nice to meet you, it's like, key for.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Keep going by.

[B]

It's polite for no, thanks, but we're.

[A]

Yeah. I can't think of, like, too many that went bad. But here. Here's kind of a funny one, though. This was, you know, I got. When I came back to Minneapolis. Here I actually had to get ACL surgery. So it kind of screwed my game up a little bit. But I was only like a few days out and I was with, like. My dad was helping me out. We're at Target, and he, like, went to start checking out, and I'm on my crutches, right? And I just thought it would be funny. So I went up. There was like, a really cute girl in the aisle. I'm like, I gotta keep my approach game going. And I went up in my crutches and I was like. I was like, hey, if you need help lifting anything heavy, just let me know. I thought it was hilarious. And she looked at me with this, like, horrified look. She's like. She's like, no, I'm good. And I'm like, I'm sorry. And I just walked away. But I was laughing about it. I was like, sometimes, you know, be like a little riskier, a little. I don't know, just like. But I don't know. That was a funny one because it's like she just had a. I felt bad, but I don't know, it was like she just had, like. She just didn't get the joke and was like. Took it very literally. Like, why is this guy coming? Like, like, no, I don't need your help. And I'm sitting there, like, crutches and sweatpants. But I love it.

[B]

If you can survive that, you can survive anything.

[A]

Yeah, it was cringe. But at this point, you know, you just. You just get. You just gotta be comfortable with the cringe and.

[B]

Exactly. And realize that the thing we're afraid of almost never happens. Usually guys are afraid of, oh, she's gonna. She's gonna look at me and say, get away, creep. Weirdo. Yeah, or go tell the manager you're bothering women, or you're gonna end up on tick tock. No, she's just gonna be like, all right, well, nice meeting you, and go back to her laptop or what have you.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, if you do it, if you follow your, you know, principles, then, yeah, that's what's gonna happen, you know, and if. And if they do have a reaction like that, and they're just a weirdo, you know what I mean? At that point, you're like, it's not me, it's you. You know?

[B]

Well, one of the reasons I wanted to have you on is because I find you funny, witty, charming, and I. You have your sense of humor, and I love to help guys sort of channel their personality into their Approaching into their dates, because this should not just be about getting results as much as we want those. I feel like dating can be an expression of yourself. It can be a canvas for you to crack jokes, be yourself, be funny. Can you. Any. Any anecdotes, moments, or I don't know, or. Or tips you want to share about. Could be on a date. Could be approaching. How does. How does Evan's sense of humor come out when he's talking to women or dating women?

[A]

Oh, yeah, that's a. That's a good question. I mean, I think. I mean, I like doing stuff like comedy writing, and I do some stuff with content creation, and so I think one example would be, like, on Hinge. It's really fun to come up with clever openers that follow some of those principles. So I've had a lot of fun and success being able to give witty answers, and even you get a little chance to think about it, you know, in writing. But, yeah, I mean, every approach, every conversation is just, you know, I try to make them laugh and, you know, play to my strengths there. You know, I have. Women just been like, dude, you are hilarious. And I had a couple girls. One girl's, like, super hot, and she ended up being a dancer, whatever. But it was. I don't know, it was funny. Like, you know, I just made her, like, laugh her ass off, and she was just like, dude, you're hilarious. I want to you, like, like, just literally. Oh, my God. Like, we kind of, like, figured out, like, pretty early on in our texting that, like, maybe we weren't looking for the same things or we wouldn't be compatible. And she was like, really? Like, I'm looking for this thing. And then we decided, like, okay, look, it was good chatting, but maybe we're not on the same page. And then a few days later, she got back. She's like, dude, I just want to meet up with you. Like, yeah, you know, and then we hung out, like, a bit. We still talk once in a while, but I think it was just, like, one example or some women just freaking love it. You know, some are maybe more like, this guy's a little bit of a clown, but.

[B]

Any advice? Yeah, any advice or tools you've used or openers you recall from the apps where you are using your sense of humor to create the opener to make women laugh? Any. Any tricks of the trade you want to share with our listeners?

[A]

Okay, so when I do that kind of gets a funny response. I'll be like, Alyssa. I'd be like, wait, are you the Alyssa? The one everyone. The one everyone's been talking about? And I'm like, are. So are the rumors true? So sometimes I'll do these things. Like, I like. I love doing, like, kind of, like, mysterious, like, follow for part two. Like, that works so well. And you. You.

[B]

Here's your content creation brain.

[A]

It is. Yeah.

[B]

Creating curiosity.

[A]

I literally say that sometimes. I say, like, and follow for you. Be like, you know what? You know, like, maybe like, you're a line where you're like, there's something about you that's just super charming. You know, whatever. You know, there's something about you. Blah, blah, blah. Like, any kind of cliffhanger about you. You know, there's something about your personality that you probably don't even know about. You know, like something.

[B]

What?

[A]

Like, literally something. They're like, what is it? Exclamation. I'd be like. Like and follow. Like, and follow for part. You know, I'll say. I'll be like, text and follow for part two. Leave my number. And then they'll tell you. They'll text you. I'll leave them clip, you know, so it's kind of like leading them to the next. It's just like a fun game. So that would just be like, one example of an opener that seems to work quite a bit. But sometimes I'll do these things, and I'll be like, I gotta think of something. Now I'll kind of put my back myself into a little bit of a corner because I'll be like, now I gotta come up with something pretty clever, because I just, like, played that one up. But then it's fun to do that, to be like, all right, I'm gonna get myself out of this. I'm gonna think of something super clever and Something funny and open the conversation. And yeah, I think that, I mean, that plays with me. When you got most guys being like, hello or like, hey, you know, when you do something like that, I mean, it stands out. And, you know, I'm getting responses from girls that a few years ago I'd be like, no, they're out of my league. Why bother? You know, and it's been, it's just, it's been night and day.

[B]

Well, when you can make a woman laugh, you're not just entertaining her. Of course, every woman, almost every woman likes to laugh. Who wouldn't, right? But you're also sending a really sharp signal that will remove one of the biggest roadblocks women have to going on a date with a guy, which is, is this going to be boring? Are we going to talk about bitcoin and stocks and chat GPT for 2 hours? Are we going to laugh and have fun? And if you can, you don't need to be a stand up comedian. You don't need to be, you know, Dave Chappelle. If you can just keep it light, keep it fun, you'll, you'll get a woman feeling okay. He made me giggle.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

No matter what happens on our date, it'll be fun time. And that makes it so much easier to, to get some wonderful women out on dates.

[A]

Yeah, that's so true. Like, rule one, do not be boring. And because that's what you're doing, like when you're creating this fun experience, one I do in certain contexts, let's say with Ms. Alyssa, be like, hey, look through your profile and I have three questions for you that'll tell me everything I need to know about your personality. One easy, one medium, one hard pressing. Which, which do you want first? Right? And I know that one I've gotten a lot with. Whether it's the opener or I do it, maybe a couple messages in and then they'll say something like the, you know, the easy one. I'll be like, well, you just got the easy one with picking the question. So now I know. And so like, and then like for, for each one, if they say easy, I'll be like, oh, like, so what that tells me is that, you know, you're caught, but you make it a positive thing. Like, oh, you're cautious and you really like to, you know, think things through before diving in. Or, you know, or difficult. Like, wow, you're really. This tells me that you're really bold that you shoot first. Like something like that, you know, to give them like the girls love Like. Like personality stuff. If you could, like, you know. You know, given the line of work. I do, too. But, yeah, yeah, it's playful.

[B]

It breaks the pattern of what she's used to, as opposed to, hi, how was your weekend? And, yeah, it's about her, too, right? It's engaging her. One of my favorites. This is going back 20 years when I was on match.com, back when people dated on websites.

[A]

Yeah, I've been there.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. You remember, baby.

[A]

39.

[B]

I still do it. I just do it shorter. It's like a pop quiz. Hey, pop quiz. Alyssa, I'm writing you because, A, you know, I. I like women from the Midwest. B, you're super cute. C, I don't know. Xyz. Something personal.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

Just turn into a little quiz.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, playfulness. Playfulness directed at her is. Is hard to go wrong.

[A]

Yeah, no, yeah, it is. Yeah. Sometimes I'll do that. If it's, like, a little more on the generic or I'll. Okay, so here is a good one. This girl, super. I mean, like, young, gorgeous, and she had red. And I've done this one a couple times with girls with red hair. I'm like, hey, be honest. Is the Dolly Parton song Jolene based on you? And I would write, like, flaming locks. You know, it's like flaming locks of auburn hair, ivory skin, eyes of emerald green. I'll put, like, a little music emoji and that one, you know, usually they'll get back and laugh. And that one, it's a little fun, playful. One example I did recently, and I think, like, one thing that's been super helpful is, like, for dates and for this, like, bantering, flirting, is having these fun questions already thought out, not having to think of them on the spot. And that just plays super well. So, like, when I do my easy medium question, like I did, I wrote out a list one day of, you know, I have it here of, like, just funny. Like, 20. What do I have, like, 20 questions that I could go to. So funny. One girl kind of called me out. She's like, you have these written down. Don't you know? I'm like, no, she didn't care. She's like, you. She called me up. I'm like, well, look, no, I work in. You know, I run groups and I do this, and it's an icebreaker question. So it's not just for dating. But I'm like, yeah, really? It's just, like, mostly for dating. But yeah, it was just. Yeah. So it Was just kind of funny. She called me out on it, but we had a good laugh over it. But I think, you know, having those for. So I don't have to, like, really think, yeah, I'm Hendra when I'm on dates. I mean, that's just like. I mean, you're just. You're curating on a date. You're curating this fun experience and just asking these questions. I. I had an interest, a really interesting one. Yeah, this was a curveball. This was a couple weeks ago, girl. She was, like, beautiful, young hospice nurse. We had, like, just great conversations from hinge on, she was super interested. And, you know, she lived out in a rural area, so I don't know how we matched, but she came in, you know, and we went to this really cool Vietnamese bakery. And. But it was like, really. We got there was really crowded, and we'd actually talked on the phone a few times. So I'm like, all right, we've already, like, established comfort. This will be fine. So she walks in, and I swear to God, she was a deer in the headlights I'd never see. She was just, like, petrified. Like, could barely even talk to me. I'm like, oh, my God. Like, what the hell is going on here? And I was like, are you. I was like, are you okay? She's like, yeah. I'm like, eventually. I'm like, I don't think you're okay like this. Like, I was, like, seriously worried, and. But then I kind of was like, all right, look, like, you know how to handle this. Like, just take the lead up. Okay, let's find a place to sit. And I was like, okay, are you a little overwhelmed? But then she's like, yeah, you know, not used to overstimulation. So I actually, you know, like, grabbed her hand just, like, a little bit, you know, and, you know, almost like, all right, let's breathe. But I just asked her some of these questions. I was like, hey, just focus on me here for a sec. I'm like, you know, and I just asked some fun questions. And then she focused in on that. And then eventually she calmed down, you know, and we got our food and, you know, and so just. Just having these questions and being able to have fun, it really kind of pushed past the situation where she was having, like, an anxiety attack.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

You know, but then from there, you know, we learned something like, you know, like, okay, just not the best environment for her personally. And, you know, but then we went to, you know, museum. Went to this really cool museum, and, you Know, went to like three or four other places while I'm back at my place, had a great time, had a great time again last Sunday. And what I, I don't know, I gotta be careful what I say a little too much. But I think like I didn't. She kind of admitted that she's kind of think she may be on the spectrum a little bit. Right. But so something like that where someone, you know, has these simulation struggles, whatever. So that's just a great, I think, example of how powerful questions can be. Asking fun, probing questions. Some are super easy, silly, but you know, then some you can make them a little bit more personal and deeper. And I think there's merit to that eventually asking those too.

[B]

I think one of the biggest myths about that that happens in, in the world of male dating advice, so called experts say avoid asking questions, avoid interview mode.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. And I say, well it depends on the quality of the questions. If they're good questions, if they're fun, playful, then ask tons of questions. But if it's logical, informational questions, how are you? How was your weekend?

[A]

Where'd you go to school?

[B]

What'd you major in? Yeah, don't, don't pummel her with logic and information. But if you're being fun and playful, then some women absolutely go crazy for that kind of question. Most men aren't asking.

[A]

Yeah, you're playing, it's just a game. You're just playing a game with them and it's fun, right? Yeah, those. And for, you know, like if I ever find sometimes I'll get a little lazy. Oh, how was your day? And like action, you know, at best it's, you get a neutral response out of it. But yeah, you know, you've taught about that too. I remember in some of those modules and in your podcast you talk about those like dating games, right? Like those play super well. And I think, you know, in taking the lead, women, they don't want to think, they don't want to plan. And so again you're curating this experience and if you could curate, I mean some of these dates that I've, you know, that I do now, I like, I put some thought into it before I have, you know, just like my questions. I have like five good spots. Some of them like we went with her. I'd never been to that museum, but I'd always wanted to go. And sometimes too like I think I'm going to like giving some options to being like, hey, I have this amazing Indian place or amazing pasta place and women love that it's like, oh, I could pick this one, right? Instead of where you want to go, like, give them, like, three good options. Like, amazing this, amazing that. All right, how about this? I got this museum. Or we could go take a walk in the sculpture. This park here for. For stop number two, you know, and give them. Because sometimes some women just be like, do anything. You pick, order, order the food for me, everything. I don't care, you know? But some women, too, are a little bit. Little anxious, you know, or a little bit, like, because, I mean, they're afraid they're going out with some strange dude they don't know. And to give them someone a little bit more sense of control, be like, so here are a few different options. And I think that makes them a little more comfortable because then they're always like, what do I wear? Do I have to dress warm or do I have to dress? So I found that some women kind of like, I try to make it as much of a surprise as possible. Like, be like, don't you worry. I got. This is going to be super cool. And I know it's. They're going to like it. But some women are like, look, I kind of got to know. You're like, okay, okay, it's. We're gonna go to a museum, right? And it's a really cool one. And then, you know, so you try to give them, like, as little info. But eventually I'd be like, yes, we're gonna go to this specific restaurant. It's called Chimborazo. South American. It's awesome. You don't have to dress fancy. It's gonna be great, you know, but ideally, it's just like, just come with me. Is the best restaurant in town, you know?

[B]

Yeah, A good thing. You're doing everything great. You're leading, but you're also checking in with her when you say, hey, would you rather do tapas or cocktails for the first date or whatever the options are? Or some women like to say, hey, you put it together. Just show me where to be. Tell me where to be. And that's great, too. Other women like to collaborate and help with the planning, but they still almost invariably like to see that man taking the lead. And sometimes they dance right along with you. Other times they like to let you fully lead. And Fantastic. Okay, one more question before we segue, because I want to find out if there's anything you want to ask me about some kind of advanced dating questions before we do that last question about what you have learned and what you would like to share with our, our. The guy who's listening to this. If you were going to give one piece of advice to the typical nice guy, maybe a bit introverted, but very intelligent, smart, logical minded, but also deeply intelligent, good hearted. What dating advice? Whether it's about approaching or the dating apps or first dates, Evan's choice. What is the, the best piece of dating advice you'd like to share with that guy?

[A]

I think take the lead. I mean there's so many, I mean you've taught me so much, but take the, I mean, I don't know. Take, take the lead. Curate an experience. Don't be afraid, you know. Yeah, don't be afraid to do so because they like that. You know, women love that. I mean like, and they put it on their profile. It's like, just tell me a date and a time. Like they're literally telling us to do that. I've never met a single woman who does not absolutely love that. I mean, for one, you know, she hates the opposite. But then we'll love, you know, having that experience of taking the lead and just do it. Well, don't.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Just don't be afraid. Don't, don't. Yeah, don't be afraid of like, oh, they're going to. I think sometimes we're afraid of like, like infringing on their autonomy. You know, we're kind of taught that to be like, what do you want to do? You know, and they don't like that. You know, they, they, you know, they want to, they want individuals to take.

[B]

The lead and yeah, use the power of. Let's, hey, let's do this. Let's go ahead, let's go get a nightcap, let's go to a second venue, let's go back to my place, let's go out again. Let's, let's, let's. I love the word let's because it shows leadership, but it's not in some kind of weird, toxic, bossy, bullshit, alpha, fake male way. It's like, do this. No, it's like, hey, let's do this. How's that sound to you, m'? Lady? It's that perfect balance of gentlemanliness but also leadership. And women just love a man who leads. And I 1000% agree. Lead the conversation, lead the date ideas, just keep leading. And then some women love to take the reins a little bit too and be cool with that. Nothing wrong with that too. Other women just like to let you drive.

[A]

Yeah, that let's is. I 100% agree that let's was really good advice, and that's super powerful. And you could use that. That all day long. I think that. I think that's like a perfect encapsulating word for what you're trying to do in the vibe. I had a funny one, too. I got a date set up for Thursday here and another girl, she said, I think she's. She's from China originally. Yes. There's a slight language thing going on, but I was like, yeah, let's. We're gonna, like, go out Thursday. I'm gonna come up with something. I'm gonna come up, you know, I'm gonna come up with something really awesome for us, right? And she goes, yeah, okay. I was like, oh, where do you live? She was, I'm in Plymouth. And I'm like, oh, okay. And she was like, yeah, there's. There's this really cool place called. Called the Red Stag or something like that. That's really good. I'm like. I said some joke back. I'm like, hey, I'm the man. I'm supposed to take the lead here. And she laughed about it, but I was like, yeah, I mean, maybe that could be a cool place to check out. And so maybe, you know, maybe we will go there. But we just had a good laugh about that. And she's like, well, I was just trying to be helpful. I'm like, I know. I'm just kidding. I appreciate you suggesting. I love a good suggestion, you know, so. I don't know.

[B]

I love it. I love it when a woman steps up. As long as she's not doing it because I'm not leading. Yeah, that we don't want. Yeah, I remember I was in. I went to Stockholm for my 40th birthday, working with my coaches back at the time. And women in. In Sweden are really progressive. They're obviously some of the most beautiful women and people in the world, but also they're not afraid to. This woman, Christina I met, I approached her, I led, I did my thing. And she's like, you know, my, my. I don't do a good Swedish accent. But she said, oh, you know, my. My car is nearby. Just want to come back to my place for some wine. I was like, that's the kind of leadership. I'm happy to follow you. Yes, beautiful.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You lead, I follow. You don't need to be, you know, dogmatic about it. Let her lead, too. It's nice to be chased a little bit, but first they're going to want to see you do that. Leading. Cool. Let's Switch to anything that's on your mind. Maybe some more advanced things. Before you and I hopped on the pod, we were talking about how to handle it when a woman, you know, doesn't commit to that second date. We could talk about some advancing text questions you might have or anything, any other part of dating. What's on your mind that I can help you with today?

[A]

Yeah, I think that's a great example of a situation that came up that, you know, even though I'm more confident now in a lot of this and by the principles, this one just kind of threw me off my game. Where on third. Yeah. Thursday, I had an incredible date and her and I had been talking for maybe five, six days. And it was just like. Couldn't have gone any better on Hinge. I had a great opener. We both work in the same field, and I was able to kind of use that. I knew the place where she worked and, you know. You know, it was just we connected so well even. I mean, she was suggesting we talk on the phone. We had a couple great phone conversations till 2 in the morning. You know, it was flirty. I was hitting all these great. Flirty. I mean, she was like saying stuff like, ah, you're so smooth. And like, you know, in like, in a positive way. And, you know, I think she really took well to the compliments and gave her like little nicknames and stuff. So we were already like in a really good spot. Then I, you know, I went, I picked her up from her place. She really appreciated and curated like a four stop date, and she just wanted the frozen waterfall.

[B]

Oh, four places you went, four locations?

[A]

Yeah, Yeah, I kind of had like, you know, I think that's, you know, I was like, all right, here's what we like. In my mind, I'm like, all right, hey, we'll do. We'll hit the beautiful nature spot. We'll do that one first. Often I like that after dinner because that's where you're making out, right? But it was really cold, like 5 degrees. Us, I'm like, we'll do this quick. We're gonna hit this frozen waterfall. We'll be out for 10 minutes, get started, then we're gonna go to this amazing Indian place that you're gonna love. Then I was gonna take her to like some ice cream place and then there's like a pinball bar. This place I really love too. That's really fun to just go to this pinball bar or whatever wholesome activity. And I mean, it just could not have gone better, right away. We were just vibing so hard. I mean, she couldn't have been more complimentary. Like, this is awesome. You pick me up and you show me these cool places and this food is incredible. You know, I'm telling her some fun stories. Like, I love your stories and you're so funny, right? So everything's just awesome. We're gonna go to this ice. So this is actually a New Year's or something. We're gonna day, so we're gonna get some ice cream. But the place was closed, so she's like, hey, let's just get a Sunday at McDonald's. Or. So we go through the drive thru, we're sitting in the parking lot and we're just making out like it's no one's business.

[B]

You're making out in the McDonald's parking lot?

[A]

Yeah, McDonald's parking lot.

[B]

You know how to show a woman a good time, don't you?

[A]

It's her idea. I don't know. It was a good Sunday, you know. That's a good one.

[B]

Did part of you become super sized, if you know what I mean?

[A]

Actually, yeah. I don't know.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I feel we're rating this podcast. We'll put it to you this way. Her hand was voluntarily going, you know, to other places. So she knew. She knew I was enjoying myself. But we kept it there, though. So we, you know, we kind of both like, yeah, this is awesome. But, you know, like, we're not gonna. It's not gonna end in a bed. And I'm like, yes, perfect. You know, I was like, hey, this could be someone maybe I would date in a more serious way. So I was like, yeah, absolutely. I think that'd actually be part of the question on what you think on that one. But yeah. So anyway, drop her off and we're talking about, yeah, you know, let's hang out. Yeah, this weekend I'm open. And she's like, you know, yeah, I'll do the. She's like, let's do this weekend. I'm just not sure yet. Saturday or Sunday? I'll let you know. Tomorrow. Yeah, perfect. Friday comes along. Great text in the morning. I think she even sent me a message. She's like, because we're joking about chivalry and stuff. And she was like, that was amazing. Chivalry on point or something, right? Like. Like the perfect ending. Complimentary. Next day, everything's good, more banter. Then all of a sudden, like, there was just this noticeable drop off from the vibe of what it was before. Where she just, like, didn't get back to me for, like, eight or nine hours or so. I didn't think much of it, and I normally wouldn't care, but it was just such a drastic change. And I kind of sent like, a fun little gamey message at the end of the night because I also wanted to know, too, of like, yeah, hey, I'm holding my weekend. So. Okay, I was a little, like, annoyed, but I'm not going to show that. But, you know, I was kind of waiting here we doing Saturday or Sunday, and she. She did get back, but it was just. There's just like a noticeable vibe shift, you know, really long pauses between messages. And I sent, like, a good, hey, good night. Just let me know tomorrow whether it's gonna be Saturday or Sunday. Otherwise, you know, I'll plan something else for tomorrow and whatever. And she just didn't respond and didn't respond, like, most all the next day. And then just from there, it was just like. And I don't know. It's really. I don't know. I don't know. I was really. I was kind of anxious, you know, because I was, like, super excited to see her again. I'm like, you know, and I had these, like, high expectations, right, that I felt like she kind of lined up for me. So, yeah, there's kind of this mixture of, like, frustration, disappointment, and then I'm sitting there like, well, how do I do this? Do you know, I'm trying to follow the principles and sure things like that. And so that's kind of where it's left. I mean, we're still, you know, sent a couple messages today, but, I mean, it's just. I don't feel like there's this elephant in the room, and I. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what to do.

[B]

Yeah. I think the main challenge here might I give you two pieces to this. Two tips, one mindset, one mechanics. The mindset tip is, and you already said it, you already nailed it yourself. You had big expectations after the date, and then she did not meet the expectations that you wanted, slash, hoped or assumed would happen. And that's disappointing for you. Frustrating. You're human. Nothing wrong with feeling that way. At the same time, I learned through the school of hard knocks to as much as a human can let go of any expectations with a woman who you barely know, barely know this girl, you've had one date, and it was incredible. But we just don't know this woman much. And so we want to take the warrior's mindset of dying to the dying. You die to the past. D I E. Die to the past, Die to the future. And just say, hey, I'm gonna remove as many. As many expectations as I can here. And because I had. I. I was telling you this before we hopped on this call or this pod, but, you know, I have had. I had first dates in the past where I thought, oh, my God, we look like boyfriend girlfriend. You would have thought we were gonna get engaged. And then I never heard from her again, which was cold water. But it usually wasn't about me. And it was the dashed expectations that hurt. So we want to not. Not lower expectations, but try to be free from outcome, detach from them. As a Buddhist might say, or a Zen mindset might say, detach from outcome. So that you just say to yourself, hey, we had an amazing first date. Chemistry was off the charts. We did. I did everything. Well, she's clearly into me. I have no idea if I'll ever see her again. Literally tell yourself that I may never see this girl again, or we may have hot, steamy, amazing sex and have babies, or somewhere in the middle, we don't know. And so there's your expectation reset. That's the mindset. And the mechanics tip is more about. I don't like this idea of. I don't like to leave the ball in the woman's court. Like, cool. Just get back to me when you're free this week and we'll set something up. If you have a date on Thursday night that went great like you did, and you want to set up a date for maybe Saturday, great. Then. And she's. And a woman says, hey, let me get back to you. Things are crazy. I'll get back to you. That's fine. It's reasonable. Then my advice would be give her a deadline without making it sound like a deadline, but set a little bit of a reasonable boundary. Cool. Let me know by Friday about 4 so I can plan something sexy for us. And then she'll probably get back to you. If she doesn't, you can follow up at 4:15 and say, hey, yes or no. Either way, it's then. Then you can have your weekend to yourself. If that's the case. And. And by the way, the vibe shift. It's probably got nothing to do with you or anything about the date. In fact, the date was an A plus plus plus. Sometimes it's kind of like the day after a first date with all that texting, all that lead up to it. It's like December 26th, you two just opened all the presents and there's a little bit of a post Christmas crash that can happen. That's got nothing to do with you. It's just, oh, no, we opened all the presents and there's a little bit of a downward dip. Doesn't mean she won't see you again. It just means Christmas Eve only comes once a year. Yep.

[A]

Yeah. And no, you're absolutely right. And I think that's the hard part. You know, I kind of felt like, I don't know, it's kind of an ongoing pattern. I think one of the reasons why I reached out to you because I felt like in my mid, late 30s, the game had kind of changed. Where, like, in my 20s, I was crushing the dating apps I had. Nobody ever flake. And then all of a sudden it was like nine out of ten dates were turning into flaking situations even. And I go on these good dates and then, you know, I felt like, you know, Charlie Brown trying to kick the football and constantly getting it, you know, lifted every time. And so I was kind of, you know, a little sensitive to that. And. And I think that's. So. It's an important reminder because that has happened a handful of times where it's just like butterflies and fireworks. And then all of a sudden it's like, what the hell? You know, or like, you know, I think it's like a business thing too, where I'm like, trying to get a contract signed and they're like, yeah, we're going to do it. And, like, and the next day they're like, actually, we've reconsidered. Like, what I, you know, you're looking at all the dollar sign, you know, or whatever that may be. Oh, yeah. And so, yeah, I think that's a very powerful reminder that I need to do to let go of that outcome. And, you know, and I think too, that's where I've kind of maybe struggled in the past, where when I, in these rare situations, I find someone, I'm like, oh, we're compatible, or this is great. Then, you know, maybe you become a little too accessible or I don't know what the right word may be. You're just, you know, maybe overwhelming a little bit or, you know, so I think that, yes, that is definitely a good reminder. And I didn't really take it personally as far as I did something wrong. And I kind of did pick up maybe on some, maybe deeper stuff where there's kind of some hints that she dropped about maybe trouble getting close to certain, like, she'd only had maybe one and she's like 28. Maybe had one long term relationship and she kind of dropped some hints of okay, let, you know, after we're like really hot. Like, let's just let things simmer. So she literally said that. And I didn't really. I kind of knew what she meant. But I think she, you know, maybe it was so intense and overwhelming that maybe it triggered something in her. Maybe it triggered some fear. Oh my God. I like this person. I'm getting close to them and I've been hurt before, you know, and so, you know, that make. It makes sense. It's just, just, just disappointing because I was like, this is gonna be great. We're gonna have a second day. We're gonna be day two is gonna be in bed half the time. You know, just.

[B]

But right. You just never know. You know, I've had mediocre seeming first dates or the second and third things skyrocketed and maybe we had a relationship and I've had the opposite. That story. I told you I'll call her Emily. First date, people were at the bar, were asking us how long we've been together. On our first date, that's how we looked. Ghosted me, complete silence after our first date. And I asked. I beat myself up for a week. What did I do wrong? Was I too try hard? Did I come on too strong? Was I too much of a F boy? And then six months later, I look at her Facebook, she's pregnant. Maybe she was in love with a different man. Maybe she wanted to have babies and didn't see me as the future father. Who knows? Bottom line is it really wasn't about me, even though it affected me. And of course we're affected by other people's behavior, but all we can do is, to quote Masters champion Jordan Spieth, control the controllables. You control what you can control. And who knows what the other guys might score on the. The leaderboard.

[A]

Yeah, I had a couple like, follow up questions that came to mind. So one, is there a point where I can maybe call out that elephant in the room? You know, I mean, I would rather do it like maybe over the phone or even just like, hey, it seems like, you know, calling out what it is. Seems like there was like a vibe shift or, you know, is there? Yeah, I don't know. I guess I don't even know what, what I would say like, or I think at one point I was like, hey, you seem a little, you know, stressed out or something like that or Like I was trying to like get something out of her to, you know, give her a chance to explain it because I just felt like such an elephant in the room. But yeah, do you ever call that out and just be like, hey, the.

[B]

Thing you're noticing is the texting change, right?

[A]

But it's. Yeah, not just like the frequency, but just like what she's saying. Like just going from like a level eight, nine, and you know, this ramp up, six, seven, eight, nine, boom, boom, boom. And then all of a sudden like we're at A, A3. You know, it's like we felt like we like regressed to this, we're sending first messages kind of thing. It was just such a noticeable change.

[B]

Yeah, I guess I'm not against it. I don't know that it serves you in this case after one date because that, that flattening out of the energy is not that unusual. I'm not saying it feels good, but I'm also not saying there's anything for you to worry about. What I would suggest you do is keep your eye on the outcome here, which is a second date that goes, takes things to the next level with her. And if she says no to that or makes it clear or continues to make her hard to date, then you would say, oh, hey, do you, do you still want to go out again? I really had a blast with you. How are you feeling about things? That would be different because then you might. Yeah, it's like a. Yeah, but I would not, it's. I would not overread the texting tea leaves here until you have a reason to. It's case by case basis. I don't know anything about this young lady, but bottom line is, probably doesn't serve you to ask her that at this point.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What does serve you would be to stick to the basics of giving value of, of asserting a win win outcome for the two of you going for date number two in the near future. And you know something I've probably said to you many times over the course of working together, and I like to repeat it here, is in any given situation with a woman, really what my eyes are focused on is what is my ideal outcome with this woman? I want to, and I want to assert that in a win win way. So she and I both love it, which would be a big win. Or until I get clear evidence that I won't get it. Now, vibe shift in texting is circumstantial evidence, but it's not clear evidence. Clear evidence is going to be either you get the win, win, awesome second date. Or she says, hey, you know what I've been thinking? I'm. Blah, blah, blah, whatever. Not feeling it. That's not where you are yet. So not until you get to that point would I say it's time to call out the vibe shift.

[A]

Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And I think, you know, I think I'm probably right, that something happened, you know? But at the same time, I think when you're excited and that shift happens, it's almost like a dark cloud. And I was kind of telling you before, I'm like. I almost, like, was, like, in the state of, like, mild insanity, you know, where you're like. Like, reading into it and you're, like, anxious. I say, and. And you kind of maybe say something to screw it up, you know? Or you're, like, in Swingers and you're leaving the, you know, 12 messages in a row. You know, you're. That scene. Yeah.

[B]

Excuse me. Well, that's. We want to avoid that.

[A]

Yeah. We don't want you.

[B]

That's human. It's totally human to fall into that little mental pattern. We don't want to indulge in it for too long. So as you might remember in the training we did. It's in the book. It's in the training that you and I did, Evan. This idea that we have these little mental triggers that can make us kind of spiral, and you want to try to.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's okay to fall into one. Like, oh, man, she didn't write me back. What did I do wrong? Does she want to see me again? And you want to come back to center and say, I'm not gonna consistently indulge in some story that I need a woman to respond to me and text me back in order for me to feel happy about things. Instead, I'll remember that. I'll just play it one day at a time, one text at a time. Not gonna let a woman's texting decide how happy I'm gonna be. Easier said than done. But. But it is something that you can continue to. To build on that with. With people, because we just want to. We want. Excuse me. We want to make your self not even confidence. Your sense of enjoyment and satisfaction come from inside of you, largely inside of you, and not be too dependent on a woman texting you back or not. If it's just a random woman you had one date with, if it's your girlfriend or somebody is your partner. I'm not. I'm not saying ignore. What other People say about you, it makes perfect sense.

[A]

So to remember to go to that abundance kind of mindset of, you know, hey, I have other women that are messaging me. And, you know, hey, maybe it isn't what I thought it was gonna be. And maybe, you know, maybe not gonna work out. And so, yeah, instead that, you know, I just said, well, I'm like, I'm not gonna sit around. I told you, I called my friend. I'm like, it, I'm gonna go out tonight, and I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna do some approaches. And next day I had a date set up with someone else that went really good and kind of took my mind off of it and a place of letting go of that outcome. And I think that'll serve me well where I could just enjoy texting her as little as, you know, we do. And then, yeah, maybe come up with a date idea to pitch to her, and if it doesn't work, it's all good, you know, move on. Maybe she comes back, maybe not. Whatever.

[B]

Right? Yeah. Ask yourself, is the ideal outcome her with you and her. Is it you dating and seeing her more or is it how much she texts you?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, because I, you know, something like this, I don't care. Like, I don't love texting all day every day by any means. It just kind of, you know, but I was enjoying, you know, it was more enjoying the vibe that we had. And it. Yeah, that. It was just that. Yeah, it was more. So the change that kind of rattled me a bit. Yeah. So that makes sense.

[B]

Well, that change, I would say out of every 10 clients who have shared that kind of change, they've noticed after a date that they thought went well, nine out of 10 times it was something. It was either nothing or it was a normal leveling out of chemistry after an intense first date, but it wasn't over. Or if it was something that was had changed in her, it had nothing to do with anything he had said or done. Nine out of 10 times, it was nothing about him. And half the time it was nothing at all. She was just, oh, sorry, I got really busy. My grandma sick, my dog, blah, blah, blah. And then, hey, when are we going out again? So I would say your ultimate answer is going to be, I don't know what her name is. Let's say it's Jennifer. Hey, Jennifer, let's have date number two. What night are you free? And that her answer to that will tell the tale, not how much she texts you. Yeah, but don't call her Jennifer, if that's not her name. That's my advice. I have time for one more question and then bounce. And I know you do too. Any final dating kind of more advanced or kind of Evan specific question you'd.

[A]

Like to share in this situation too? It kind of brought up this question I've had lingering for a while. Is it, is there something that happens when things almost are too good? Like, is that a red flag in some kind of way? Do we want to be the one to try to temper that energy a little bit? Whether that's stopping the first night hookup, you know, and maybe building some tension for next time? Are you being the one to pump the brakes a little bit and, and cool things off? Whereas, like, I was kind of thought of it like, almost like buyer's remorse, where you take it super far and, you know, and then all of a sudden the next day, you know, you get that crash. Is there, is there something to that.

[B]

Or are you talking mainly sexually?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I say both. I'd be so, you know, like kind of like really fast intimacy emotionally, you know, kind of like love bombing. Exactly. But like that really intense chemistry right away. Emotional intimacy. Physical intimacy. Is that, can you have that rebound effect? And is there something maybe that's just not even the thing?

[B]

Or maybe I never personally experienced that.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I can't remember a feeling where a woman said, whoa, we went too far too soon. I'm not ready for that kind of intimacy slash openness. I'm not saying it never happened. I just never felt that it did. Assuming the two of you, and I'm sure this is true in your case, were both all in. It was feeling great. It was obviously mutual. I've, I've never seen that be something that you should temper. Now it's possible that a woman might be saying to herself, oh, wow, I, I, I wasn't expecting to go that far and feel something and that might set off her own internal. Yeah, speed bumps. If she is a person who likes to go slowly, that's possible. But it's hard to read that in a person because we're not mind readers. So I, after I started approaching a lot and I got a little bit of the, how do I put this? You know, my fuckboy got my fuckboy period, where I was just doing some more lighter fun hookups. I was never in any kind of, I took it pretty slow. I would go two or three dates before I even worried about sex. Not because I thought first date sex was gonna set off any red alarms with her Just because I wasn't in any hurry. I found three dates to be a pretty good sort of arc to move toward intimacy where whether we were gonna keep it casual or potentially get into a relationship, I created like a three date arc. Sometimes the chemistry happened more quickly, sometimes it was a little bit longer. But I wasn't doing that strategically the way you were asking.

[A]

Well, it's good to know because I was gonna just ask like yes, no, or indifferent sex on the first date. Sounds like more indifferent, like as far as. I mean, it's not the word, but more of like a neutral impact on the trajectory that sometimes is fine. Sometimes.

[B]

Two of the loves of my life, not my girlfriend, but two of the loves of my life from the past, we had first date sex. And one of them, we both kind of assumed we were going to be a casual thing and we just ended up falling for each other over time. So I have no problems with first date sex at all. As long as you and she are both into it, comfortable with it, that's all that really matters. I've never seen that. Okay, that's a problem in terms of a woman saying, well, he's now in the boy category, so I'm not going to be his girlfriend. A girlfriend ahead of four years. We had four. First night hookup. Okay.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's really good to know. Can I give you a quick one?

[B]

Yeah, fire away.

[A]

Okay. And I brought this one up to you. Kind of the general concept of chivalry. And I know that most women like that to some degree, but there's so many different degrees from on the first date, I go, my lady. And I always open the car door for her, pulling the chair out and the follow up text, did you make it home okay? And I had like one situation where maybe I was where a girl, I kind of gave me that direct feedback of like that I wasn't maybe doing that enough for her. And that kind of threw me off where, you know, because some, some women, I think, like, maybe they think you're trying too hard if you're doing. If you're going too far with it. So I was like, well, what's like a good just default of the first date of how far do you take the chivalry? Doesn't matter.

[B]

What do you currently do?

[A]

Well, I came up, I came up with a new policy that served me well with this girl, which was, I brought that conversation up with her because I was like, oh, were you, Are you like a fun question? Are you someone who likes chivalry 0 to 10. And she goes 10. I was like oh, okay. And I was like well does that mean you like someone to open the car door for you? And so she's like oh no. I was like oh, so not quite attention. Yeah, maybe not a 10. So I, I kind of gauged that and, and that was actually really helpful for me to, to kind of know how she likes to engage. Whereas like with one girl if I didn't do that that would have been marks off or with another one it would be huge points because just like my dad used to do with my mom and you would open the car door every time and yeah. So I don't know why. It's just you get your.

[B]

I don't think. I think I'd rather err on the side of the more chivalry than less keep it genuine to you. But yeah, open a car door. Open a door. Play that leadership male role. But you don't need to show up in a handsome cab and ask her father permission for a second date. I wouldn't go that far. I think that women are going to like you for you and the value you bring to her life and she will adjust her chivalry opinion and, and be flexible. She's going to be into Evan or not or into Connell or not. Not how perfect the chivalry is. But that said, err, on the side of being a little bit too chivalrous. Not enough because it's good. It's good karma.

[A]

I think that's true and I think in this one situation the girl just had like a very unique kind of interesting personality. I mean she was from another country and you know, so I hadn't really had that issue too much before but it kind of threw me off because I did kind of like her and she gave that feedback. I was like oh, made me. Made me think so yeah, that makes sense though. That kind of matches my experience where they do like pretty most love it to some degree.

[B]

So yeah, it's. Everybody's got such a personalized feeling about this. I, I've had dates where the woman said why aren't you walking on the street side of me?

[A]

Yeah, that one too.

[B]

And I've had women who get give 0.0 Fs about that at all. Everybody's different.

[A]

You.

[B]

That's part of my authenticity philosophy is we don't want to bend over backwards to try to be what you think she wants. We just want to be genuine and do your best and err on the side of chivalry and gentlemanliness, which women like. Combine that kind gentlemanliness with that leadership we talked about and boom, that's the sweet spot.

[A]

Yeah, makes a lot of sense.

[B]

Evan, thanks so much for joining us today, bro.

[A]

Thanks for having me.

[B]

It's been awesome and thank you for listening. And by the way, if you want to learn more about how coaching with me would work, you can go to my website, datingtransformation.com book a free call and I will chat with you about how I can help you have sexy fun rooftop. I'm sorry Clifftop dates in Australia. Just like Evan did.

[A]

10 out of 10 recommend.

[B]

Oh, thank you.

[A]

Five star for that. It seriously changed my life and probably in more ways than just even just like dating outcomes and stuff. So I do want to thank you for that and I. Yeah, thank you for all dudes.

[B]

I'm only as good as my clients and you make it easy to be a good coach. Thanks, Evan. Thank you for listening. Until next time. Bye.