← How to Get a Girlfriend with Connell Barrett
How to Get a Girlfriend with Connell Barrett
Sex Tips for Shy Guys: How to Touch Her, Talk Dirty and Rock Her World (with Sex Coach Kirsten Trammell)
01:05:29
Are you unsure what to do in bed—and worried you won’t please her the first time you’re intimate? Sex coach Kirsten Trammell, host of “The Naked Connection” podcast, shares insider secrets on how to rock a woman’s world. If you’re inexperienced...
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- [00:00]
A
Think about a woman like a bullseye and that you're starting on the outside and you're slowly working your way in.
- [00:15]
B
Welcome back to the how to Get a Girlfriend podcast. I am your host, dating coach Connell Barrett. Here helping you flirt with confidence and getting a great girlfriend and doing it all with, with authenticity. No sketchy pickup artist moves needed. And today I have a really special guest, and I love having women on my show who are experts in women in men and dating. And today's guest is an extra special guest because she's also an. An expert in the area of sex. Today's guest is Kirsten Trammell. Kirsten is the host of the Naked Connection podcast and she's also, in my book, just a champion for real, raw, honest, open conversations about dating, about sex, about emotional intimacy, basically the things that make life worth living. I feel like she's on a mission to help men like you build deep connections, become even better with women in terms of communicating both in and out of the bedroom. And you're going to love meeting Kirsten. You can learn more about her on her website thenakedconnection.com for follow her on Instagram akidconnection. And she has a great podcast called guess what? The Naked Connection. Anyway, Kirsten, thank you so much for being on the how to Get a Girlfriend podcast.
- [01:31]
A
Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here today.
- [01:35]
B
Super stoked. Let's start talking a little bit about the topic of vulnerability. You know, I've heard you describe on the Naked Connection podcast the importance of, of vulnerability, of real talk. And that seems to align a lot with my big thing, which is all about authenticity. Was there a moment in your past, a specific moment or a period of your life, something that you experienced that made you realize, hey, you know what? The world needs to have a more unfiltered conversation about naked connections. And I think I'm the one who might want to talk about it 100%.
- [02:12]
A
Yeah, I, yeah, I really got into. I don't. I think that. And maybe I can't speak for everybody, but I don't think that we come into this work when we're little kids being like, I want to grow up and be a dating coach or grow up and be a sex therapist. You know, So I think it was for me personally, in my young adult years almost, I would say about 10 years ago, I had, I was in a relationship that wasn't, that wasn't the healthiest, most beautiful, flourishing space. And, and I personally didn't have the tools to know how to navigate real relationships and real intimacy in, in the way that I, I thought was possible. And you know, I didn't really know how to connect with men the way that I wanted to. I didn't know how to express myself in an intimate setting the way that I felt like I, I should be able to. But I had no idea what to do about it. I didn't know what, how to change it. And there was this kind of embarrassment and secrecy about not knowing what to do because I didn't know where to go. And it, for me hit, you know, a big moment when my relationship ended. And I really recognized, you know, if I don't do something about this, I'll probably end up living the rest of my life kind of repeating this pattern. And I decided I'm gonna really go after this. And you know, I was an athlete growing up and so I looked at it like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna like compete in the sport of becoming good at relationships and becoming good at intimacy. And I dove in. You know, I started researching for myself personally and learning along the way. And I ultimately ended up becoming a sex coach. And now I'm on the path of becoming a sex therapist. And I learned so much incredible, beautiful insight for myself and really quickly came to see, oh my gosh, the rest of the world needs to understand this because it's truly life changing. And I really came to recognize that our sex lives have, have a direct influence on the well being of the rest of our lives. And that our deeply beautiful relationships have the same, if not more impact on the rest of our well being and how we can really exist in this world. So now I'm really on this mission to share as much as I can and to connect with people like you and have conversations like this to be in support of all of the wonderful men in this world.
- [04:39]
B
Quick sidebar. What kinds of questions do you get at parties when people who don't know who you are, they say, oh, Kirsten, nice to meet you. What do you do? And do you say sex coach? And do their jaws drop?
- [04:54]
A
Usually there's some kind of like, oh, what do I do with that? And then, and then it's like, okay, now I can tell you all of the things that I've, I wanted to talk about, but I haven't felt comfortable talking about. And it's so fun because people really immediately are like, oh, I feel like this is a person that I could instantly talk about the things that most people don't Talk about, you and I.
- [05:16]
B
Should go to a party together.
- [05:18]
A
Yeah.
- [05:18]
B
And we'll have a competition who gets the most questions. Because when I say I'm a dating coach, like, oh, my God, can you look at my phone? What does she mean? I'm sure you get very similar responses from people, but what kinds of questions do you get from people, especially men, when you meet them out in the world and they're like, oh, my God, you're a sex coach. Oh. Can I ask you this? What are the problems that men are dealing with, with. With intimacy and sex right now?
- [05:44]
A
Great question. I think a couple of things come to mind. I think the first thing is really looking at how can I. And this is more aligned with someone that might perhaps be in a relationship or newly dating, and how can I make sex more than it is? I feel like my partner and I, we're enjoying each other, but I want this to be more. I want to have more experiences. I want more variety. But I don't know how to get over that hump. I don't know how to take it the next step further. So that's kind of the first thing in terms of, like, a relational standpoint. I also think, you know, this is the how to Get a Girlfriend podcast, and I think the element of that question behind, especially in today's day and age, how can I engage with a woman in a way and have, you know, like, a sexual energy that isn't creepy or isn't inappropriate? And I'm not really sure how to. How to balance the two. I think that's something that comes up quite a bit as well.
- [06:50]
B
I've coached quite a few of men who are virgins or they were virgins when they came to me. I have. I joke with my friends. Yeah, I've deflowered more virgins than just about anybody. They're all men. But my job. My job is to help deflower male virgins. Something I never thought I'd say publicly. But all jokes aside, I've worked with a lot of men who've never had sex before, or maybe they've rarely had sex. Do you have any advice for a guy who has had little to no sexual experience on how he should approach his first time? Should he? Should he? Is it okay to be afraid? Should he? Should he realize that, hey, this is a strange new world. I'm not sure what's going to happen, but just do your best. What are your thoughts on the mindset of going into the first time for a man who has never had sex? Before.
- [07:45]
A
Yeah. I think the first thing that jumps out to me is, is really stepping into connecting with the confidence that you do have and bringing that into the experience. You know, I think confidence is one of the sexiest things that somebody can have. And, and whether it's the first time that you've had sex or the thousandth time that you've had sex is finding a way to connect to that part of yourself and bringing it in. So perhaps thinking about maybe this is a new venture for you sexually, but what is a space in your life where you do have an element of, oh, I really like how I show up in that and how can I connect to that part of myself and bring that here? I think can be just a, almost like a mindset to step into. And then also, you know, and, and this could be very variable, I'm not sure for everybody. But thinking about, you know, perhaps you're not going from never, never kissed a girl before to like, we're having full intercourse. But actually allowing yourself to go through the process of slowly inviting in more sexual exploration before having full intercourse is what we traditionally think of as losing your virginity or having sex for the first time. So allowing yourself the experience to go through that phase of like, just gonna play around in first space. Oh, we're just gonna, you know, like slowly taking it one step at a time and not feeling like, oh, this is it, I have to go all in right now. And I would imagine that if that's the approach that you take, the woman that you're wanting to be intimate with is really gonna be excited by that and be, and be intrigued and want more of you.
- [09:24]
B
Yeah. As long as you're going around the bases, even if it's at a slow rate, as long as both people are going around the bases at a speed that they're both okay with, then waiting can amplify that excitement and that tension and positive anticipation, wouldn't you say?
- [09:42]
A
1,000%? Yes.
- [09:46]
B
Take your time. I mean, I've had first date sex, I've had third month sex, first time sex with a given woman. And I have to be honest, it was better when we waited.
- [09:59]
A
Yeah. I think that there is something to be said about, you know, you're in sex, you're really experiencing another person's body and that over, like the buildup of that over time, I think can really help create more comfort, more ease, more understanding, so that when you step into that sexual experience, that full, like losing the virginity moment, that there is this level of understanding between the two of you. That's already been formed. So stepping into that now, next phase is really welcomed and exciting.
- [10:32]
B
I've gotten this question from my clients, and I'd love to ask you this question, because I'll bet some of the men listening have this question. Let's say he's had. Let's say he is a virgin or has had very little sexual experience, but let's say he's a, quote, unquote virgin, sexual virgin. Should he mention that before to a woman before their first time? Yes or no? Or does it depend?
- [10:57]
A
Ah, man. It's funny, because as we started talking about this, that question also came up into my mind, and I. And, you know, probably not the answer people want, but I would. I would say that it would depend. I think that, you know, depending on the type of relationship that you've built with this person. And I also think, checking in with yourself of. Is this something that I feel comfortable sharing? Is there something that, you know, if you check in with yourself and ask yourself the question of, like, well, why do I want to share this? Is it because I want them to feel, like, more connected in the experience? Is it because I think that if I. By sharing this, maybe my nerves will go down, like, really understanding the intention behind sharing it. Because I think if you know that going into it, then that also helps the conversation in general and. And just starting. Starting it with that check in first and foremost, and then seeing, like, what could be gained or benefited from sharing this. To start there.
- [12:00]
B
I say, when in doubt, tell the truth. When in doubt. I'm not saying always let a woman know you've never had sex before, before the first time. But here's a quick past client story that really made me evolve on this, because I used to think, oh, well, don't tell her. You know, you want to come off as a guy with some experience. As long as you don't out and out lie, that's okay. But a client who I'm gonna call Ryan, changed my mind on this. Not his real name. Ryan at the time. Early 30s, man living in Florida, and he'd never had sex before, and he was dating a woman. And he said, connell, I just really want to tell her. And I said, go after it. Just be really vulnerable. Let the chips fall, and things are getting hot and heavy. They're on his couch. And then he said, hey, before we go further, I need you to know that I'm a virgin. And she said, and I quote, according to Ryan, I'm so glad you told me. I want to be your first and your last. And then she took him by the hand and they went into his bedroom. And I just love that story. Just the power of putting it out there and knowing that, hey, it doesn't have to be a. Don't be insecure if you're not a sexually experienced guy. There are women out there who might think it's absolutely fantastic and they just appreciate the honesty.
- [13:17]
A
Yeah. And I, and I think too, there's maybe like some tips about also how to, how to share that information too. Like you're mentioning, like, not feeling insecure about it and being able to, you know, saying something along the lines of like, hey, you know, this is new for me. And I maybe even expressing like, why, you know, like, I come from a religious background and that was a really big part of my life. And so because of that, I've really wanted to hold on to this part of myself and only step into this space with someone that I feel really intimately connected with. And I'm finding that that's you. Like, how does that feel for you? Because I, you know, if the girl that you're with is like, whoa, this is. It makes it more meaningful and feels like you're bringing her into the experience with you and that you're wanting her, you're not just wanting sex, you're wanting sex with her.
- [14:11]
B
Right? Yeah. Yeah. And again, your mileage may vary, listener. You can do whatever you feel is right, as long as you're truthful. As long as you lead with the truth, I think it's fine. It's also okay to not mention it if you don't want to, but I just love that Ryan story. Not his real name, by the way.
- [14:27]
A
Well, yeah, and, and that, you know, as we're talking through this hypothetical situation, I also, you know, in speaking of like, sharing the truth, let's. I just playing the tape forward here. If this is someone that you're wanting to have a long term relationship with at some point, I imagine it would eventually come out. You know, you have that conversation, oh, how old were you when you lost your virginity or whatever, have you. And then, you know, backtracking and saying, oh, that was actually my first time with you, you know, and then like kind of dropping that at that point after the fact might create perhaps some tension.
- [15:03]
B
Yeah, that's a great point. I never thought about them from that point of view. I, I don't think I ever had intimacy with a woman and I don't think I've ever been a woman's first that I know of. I was one woman's first kiss. And I loved knowing that. It made my month when she said, you were my first kiss. So, yeah, I would, I would much rather, when in doubt, I say just tell the truth because, hey, can't hurt you and it might turn her on or if it turns her off, hey, better know that now than later, right?
- [15:37]
A
Yeah, I, the thought I personally tell myself often is like, you will. You can't say the wrong thing to the right person. And I think that that carries a lot here. Right. You know, if, if you're saying this to someone and they have an adverse reaction to it, that's a beautiful insight for you to have about this person and perhaps what you want to do with the relationship moving forward.
- [15:59]
B
Can't say the wrong thing to the right person. That's gold. That's fantastic. Well, here's what not to do, guys. Don't do what I did before my, the fir. The woman I who took my virginity. I was so embarrassed. I told her I had had two or three women before, which is a total lie. I wasn't trying to manipulate her. I was just embarrassed and insecure. And then when we finally had sex for the first time, I, I lasted about. You could have, you could have cooked a three minute egg. And I was finished. And she must have been thinking, poor Angie. She must have been thinking, I waited three months for that. So don't lie like I did. Please don't. Don't lie, never lie anyway. But I realize now that I had nothing to feel insecure about. I should have just told her.
- [16:46]
A
Well, it's so interesting you say this. Oh, I lasted about as long as a three minute egg. I will share that. Statistically, the average duration of, of of standard intercourse is five minutes.
- [17:00]
B
Okay. I didn't know that. That's way shorter than I would have thought.
- [17:03]
A
Yes. And so, and that's what just from studies like intravaginal intercourse. So like once the penis enters into the vagina, five minutes is average. So something to think about there. I think that, you know, oftentimes we get into our heads about. And I'm, I guess are I'm thinking of like my milk lines. You get into the mindset of like, oh, if I'm not lasting 45 minutes, like there' something wrong with me. Or you know, like, oh, I'm not performing well enough. And, and just I like to drop that stat because it can be really helpful in the moment of recognizing that that's pretty normal for a duration of intimacy.
- [17:42]
B
Speaking of your male clients, do you have any? Do you have any really? I'm sure you have many. But what's a. What's a success story? What's a real change you saw in one of your men you've worked with or coached in any area of intimacy? It doesn't have to be in the bedroom, although maybe that's part of it. It can be out of the bedroom. It could be with his relationship with sexual expressiveness. Do you have a client success that just makes you smile when you realize how you were able to help this man?
- [18:12]
A
Yeah, a few come to mind, but I'll share this because this is a man that was out in the dating world, and one of the things that he came in really wanting to work on was becoming more communicative in his life. And while he really noticed that he wasn't able to kind of stand up for himself and assert himself and communicate his needs and desires in romantic relationships, it also started to come out of him recognizing, oh, it's not just. Just with women. It's kind of showing up in all of the relationships that I have, whether it's with friendships, with family, with work. And we did a lot of work on uncovering really what was blocking him from feeling capable and confident in sharing. This is what I want, and this is what I need, and this is a no for me, and this is a yes for me. And being able to share that. Not only share that information, but share it from, like, a really grounded and clear place. And by working through, looking at that part of himself and that part of his dynamic, he was really able to then step forward in his relationships. And what was really cool was that one of the things that shifted for him was also being able to communicate what he wanted in terms of sexual experiences. You know, asking for or sharing the fantasies or the desires that he had and doing so in a way that was like, I'm going to share this, and it's okay if you're not into it or comfortable with it, but this is a part of me, and this is what I really desire. And, like, this is the wholeness of who I am. So it changed things not just in his dating space, but also in his sex life as well.
- [19:49]
B
Great. Do you have any. Any specific examples of how he was able to apply this? In other words, was this in a relationship he's in, or was he. Is he more into. Was he just dating a woman more casually and was using it in that situation, or was it more of a. Yeah, anonymous relationship?
- [20:05]
A
It was. He was out in the world dating and it actually, it actually, I'll share this. That I think is, is really helpful is that he started practicing his communication shifts and like being able to assert himself and speak up for himself outside of the dating space, first and foremost. So he started by doing it with friends. You know, a friend would perhaps like cancel plans at the last minute and in the past he would have not said anything, but he was able to then say, hey, you know, like, express why that was kind of bothersome and let's talk about this because I want to make sure in the future that like when we make plans to spend time together that were both in agreement to be there. And so he started there because it felt like, I don't want, I'll say this word, but I. It felt less threatening to him to start in the space of like this friendship dynamic. And we were able to solely look at his specific reasonings why, you know, voicing that with a woman felt harder. But he started building up the getting in those reps, you know, and building up the comfort of actually voicing some of these things for himself and then stepping into doing it romantically.
- [21:22]
B
You struggle with dating, right? Sure, you have a good job and cool friends, but you just aren't sure how to flirt. The apps don't work for you and sometimes women put you in the friend zone. It's frustrating. Hey, I struggled with dating too. As an introvert and a total nerd. I didn't just live in the friend zone. I owned real estate there. But I escaped using the dating philosophy of radical authenticity, which I've used to help thousands of men in 17 countries find love. It's what I wrote about in my best selling book, Dating Sucks, but yout Don't. And radical authenticity is why Psychology Today called me the best dating coach in America. And now I want to personally help you attract your dream girlfriend. So go to datingtransformation.com and book a free call with me. On our call. I'll tell you how my one on one coaching will help you find your dream girlfriend. And you'll be doing it by flirting with confidence and authenticity. No creepy pickup tricks needed. So go to datingtransformation.com, book a free call today, and let my personalized coaching help you get a great girlfriend. So what's beautiful about working with a great coach such as yourself? You're not just going to have growth and, and evolve in the area of sex and dating and like our areas, but it can. It's almost like a throw a pebble on a pond. And these beautiful ripples can ripple throughout your entire life of just being more, more open, more authentic, more expressive, in and out of the bedroom. It's all parts of life. I love that story.
- [23:00]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [23:01]
B
Speaking. Speaking of, I just had a thought. Okay. I'm just thinking through the lens of what do single men who are now out on the dating scene, what do they struggle with? And one of the things I hear from men, it's a perfect question for you, is, okay, we're about to have sex for the first time. We're finally going to be intimate. What do I do? I don't just mean mechanics and technique, although I love to hear your take on that too. I guess, really my question, because you talk on your show about emotional safety being so crucial to good sex, you know, feeling understood and safe. How does a man help a woman the first time they're intimate, feel emotionally safe, feel trusted, but also give her an amazing experience?
- [23:48]
A
Okay. The, the very first thing that I think is, is applicable here is to slow everything down, slowing down the every level of the sexual experience. So really, you know, even in the beginning of the kissing and the making out and moving to slowly taking off the clothes, because I. And then to the next step, and the next step. And just really, I like to say this of like, imagine the pace that you want to go at and then think about slowing it down and then slow it down five times more. So it's almost like you're, like, this is way too slow. But I, and I share this because we're. You're probably going faster than you think. And, and also I think that by doing that, it creates moments for things to kind of allow to settle for both of you. I think that, like, a yes is a yes, and a yes can become a no. And so how can we slow things down so that you can drop into those moments of saying, like, are you ready for me to take your shirt off? Are you ready for me to play with your nipples? Or, like, I want to go down on you. And like, bringing, I think the, the next step of the interaction into like, almost like a string of yeses. Like, oh, you want me to rub your back? Yes. Oh, do you want me to take your top off to rub your back? Yes. Like, slowing things down and building in those stream, stream of yeses, I think is a really great way so that both of you are almost like leveling up in the experience together at the exact same time. So I'll stop there for just a moment.
- [25:29]
B
Yeah, that was fantastic. You're saying the same thing that my piano teacher says. Connell, slow down. You're playing too fast. Yeah, Ed. Yeah, Isn't it. It's. It's women. Women again. I know I'm generalizing here, but what I hear you saying is women like it kind of slow at first. Is that what you're saying?
- [25:53]
A
You know, I think that different varieties of sex is gonna happen, right? Like, you're gonna have those hot quickies and that, like, rough, exciting intimacy sometimes and like crazy, dirty sex. And also, like, if. Because we're talking about this being the very first time that someone might be intimate. And especially if. If you're stepping into this as a man with some nerves or discomfort or uncer. Uncertainty, slowing down is gonna not only perhaps help her feel more safe and more. More present, but it's also gonna help you and your nervous system calm down. So even thinking about how can I bring in some of my breath into this pace, the more that you can slow your breath down and take long inhales in through the depths of your belly and out through your belly, you're actually shifting your nervous system into a more, like, rest and digest state, which is also gonna help you be more. Help your erection last longer. So a lot of the times what can happen is you get really excited and you're like, oh, my gosh, it's finally happening. She's so hot. She's. All of this. This feels so good. And you're building yourself up and the breath is getting really fast. Everything starts, like, picking up pace and becoming really fiery. And then before you know it, you've come and. And so, like, there's a lot of buildup that happens really quickly. So if you want the experience to last longer, slowing everything down is another great way to also help your body slow down.
- [27:21]
B
Great, great advice. What guidance can you share for men about foreplay? And again, I absolutely am. I'm from my own experience. I know that different women like to experience different things. But in terms of what to do to a woman or how to ask her what you would. To what the right way to ask her. Can I go down on you? Can I nibble your nipples or whatever it might be, do you have any general do's and don'ts on foreplay for a man, especially a man without. Without a lot of foreplay experience?
- [28:01]
A
Okay. Yes. So. And I will give credit where credit is due because I think this is a great way to think of it. I had Susan Bratton onto the show on my podcast a while back, and she shared this great foreplay kind of visual is to think about a woman like a bullseye and that you're starting on the outside and you're slowly working your way in. So a lot of the times what can happen is, like, you're kissing and then all of a sudden you're like, okay, I'm gonna finger her.
- [28:31]
B
Right.
- [28:32]
A
And so how can we actually use the entire body of a woman and slowly build your way in? Because what's interesting is that there are so many erogenous zones on both men and women's bodies, like, often that we don't even think about. So thinking, actually, the back of the knee is a really erogenous place.
- [28:51]
B
Your wrist, the back of the knee, really?
- [28:53]
A
Yes, the wrist is a neurogenous place, like, thinking like the neck. So. And it's interesting because a lot of these places are actually where a lot of, like, blood flow is. And so I just always find that to be like, an interesting thought about, oh, like, like your wrist, there's a lot of veins here. Your neck, there's a lot of veins here. And I think that that's part of, like, the sensations and the. And like the nerves that you're experiencing and activating and stimulating. So thinking, okay, starting on the outside of the woman's body and working my way in so slowly, maybe even like caressing the leg, caressing the arm and the wrist. Starting with the neck, like, kissing the neck and slowly moving, moving in as you go is just a great. A great simple little trick to keep in the back of your mind and also thinking the same for the rest of her body. So thinking, like, we're not just going to go straight to, like, biting her nipples. Thinking, how can I first, like, massage her breasts and then slowly work my way into. Then like licking or rubbing her nipples or, or clamping them or something like that. And the same with her vulva. Thinking, how can I start on the outside and really work my way into the clit before even thinking about placing anything inside of her?
- [30:06]
B
I love that. And what was the name of the person on your. Your show who gave you that tip? That's great.
- [30:11]
A
Yeah. Susan Bratton.
- [30:12]
B
Susan Bratton. That's a great tip. I've never heard that before. The target bullseye. But working from the outside. And don't. Don't go for the bullseye right away.
- [30:21]
A
Yeah. And. And this is where I think I giggle to myself when I learned some of these things. But just human biology is like, men and women can be so opposite sometimes. Where it really generally takes a woman, you know, this is like a broad stroke here, about 40 minutes to be fully, completely aroused, which is compared to a man, a significant amount of time. And so, and the reason why I share like the slowing down process, it's not just for her, it's also for you as the man. Because when you are with a woman who's fully, completely aroused, you know, all of her blood is flowing. She's really also like she has erectile tissue in her vulva and her within her vagina as well. And so like there's a lot of. My gosh, I'm blanking on the word. There's a lot of engorgement that happens for her as well. And so the wetter she becomes, the more engorged she becomes, the more pleasurable. That's going to be for you as well. So just thinking about sometimes the slowing down, the, the working your way in, it's not only for her, it's also for you.
- [31:31]
B
I love that. That's all really great. That's so great. Such great practical advice. So start slow. Know that it typically takes a woman longer than you, a man, to get really fully aroused. It takes A man, yeah. 30 second commercial, he'll be good to go. A lot of the times I'm like, why?
- [31:50]
A
Why, universe? Why?
- [31:53]
B
It's so crazy. I remember, oh man. I remember I was a freshman in high school and I met a girl at a football game and she smiled at me. And all of a sudden in 001 second I was just completely like, I was a divining rod. I was just like, that's great. I was very, very young. But yeah, that's sort of like God, the universe, whoever's up there, he or she's just like, let's make this fun for me.
- [32:27]
A
Yeah, yeah. And, and I. This is coming up for me that I, I think might be important to share as well is I know that we're talking about, you know, as a man stepping into a sexual exchange and maybe feeling some nerves and, or, you know, feeling like not totally confident. I also want to share that the same experience is very likely happening for the woman that you're with. And if you're in a, if you're in a space where maybe this is the first time you're going to have sex or maybe you're about to like hook up or be intimate together and she's there with you, like excited and into it and there also, you know, she very likely is feeling some of the same things that you are. And I just share that. So that if those nerves or those thoughts or those feelings are coming up for you. Like, you likely are not alone in that. And, and you know, again, you necessarily can't hide your erection. And. But however, women kind of can too, you know, like, there's an element of. Of our arousal that isn't as visually evident, but oftentimes is likely there.
- [33:37]
B
Again, we're so different, yet we need each other so much. The cosmic joke. So we've been talking a little bit about what to do in terms of touch and speed. Let's talk about talking during sex or in the lead up to sex. Well, let's actually, speaking of talking, why don't we discuss. I'd love your view on consent. Verbal consent. What's your view on verbal consent? Should men always seek it, always hear it? What's your view on that?
- [34:09]
A
Yeah, I think there's a. Okay, there's a couple of things here because I think sometimes there's this thought of like, oh, asking for consent is like a mood killer. It. It's going to come out really weird. I know a lot of. Of men that I've worked with kind of have some of those thoughts in their mind of like, oh, if I'm constantly asking her if she wants to be doing this, it's kind of like kills the vibe. And so I think that there are beautiful ways to gain consent or to check in on consent along the way. So the first is, as we're talking about, like, communicating, you can like, ask for consent in a really sexy and powerful way. Like, oh, like just straight up saying, like, I want to kiss you. Are you okay with that? I. I really want to go down on you. How would that feel for you right now? Like, I want to hear you say it. Right. Like, you can make like the, you can make the consent be part of like the dirty talk.
- [35:10]
B
Yeah.
- [35:10]
A
Or part of that sexual conversation. And I think that there's also, you know, verbal consent is really important and also like, checking in with a woman's body, like, using your awareness to really observe. Is she a yes to this with her body?
- [35:28]
B
Right.
- [35:28]
A
Is she opening up to me? Is like, is when, when I'm like, doing this? Is she. Is she positively responding? Like, is. Is the sound of her breath, like, giving me a yes? Is like, is. Is like, maybe. Are her legs opening more? Is she getting wetter? Is she like moving towards me? Is she pulling back away? Like, there's a way for you to start to kind of really read her body and understand. Like, is this. Are we both wanting more of this or less of this. And that could even go for, like, is what. Is what we're doing right now feeling good for her?
- [36:06]
B
Incredible.
- [36:06]
A
So, yeah. Yeah.
- [36:07]
B
10 out of 100 out of 10 tip. I love what you just said about saying, I want to kiss you. Is that okay? I want to go down on you. Is that okay? The beautiful combination of a man looking at a woman he desires and saying what he wants, but also bookending it with. How do you feel about that? That combination of desire and masculine intent with empathy and checking in with her. Oh, that's what. That's what women want, right?
- [36:40]
A
Yeah. And I think that too, when you, like, by asking the question of, like, would that feel good for you? Or like, how does that sound to you? That then also gives her the opportunity of, like, oh, actually, like, maybe I don't want. I'm not ready for you to put your inside of me. Let's like. Let's, like, play a little bit more and she can share. You know, my hope is that she would also be engaged in this communication and share what it is that she is. Like, no, but let's do this. Or like, ah, I. I, like, really want to build up to that point. Like, can I go? Can I suck your dick for a little bit? Like, what. You know, inviting in, like, that type of conversation into it is. It makes asking for what you want really hot.
- [37:24]
B
Yeah. And you're talking and you're being communicative but not logical. And will you please sign this form and consent to intercourse with me? M. Lady, you know, that's not hot. You want to be. You don't want to be Barry Shack, the attorney. You want to be Barry White, you know, in that direction. In that direction.
- [37:44]
A
Yeah. And I think that there is, you know, I can't speak for all women around the world, but I think that there is something very attractive about. And this kind of actually goes back to that safety component about a man noticing and checking in of being like, oh, hey, you kind of made a face there. Did that. But did that hurt? Yeah, because. Or like, oh, I. Are you wanting me to keep going? Do you want to. Do you want to take a pause? Because when you. When you're able to. To voice that, and it really is communicating to her, oh, wow. He is really attentive, and he is really present, and he's really here with me. And he noticed that. And sometimes she might not have even noticed it or even if it wasn't necessarily what her experience was. Like, just the fact that you were able to check in, like, that I think is really, really powerful.
- [38:35]
B
Absolutely. The communication, the desire, but also the empathy, the kindness. Just being a good, big hearted, kind, empathetic man, which everyone listening to this is. And it's okay. That's not a sign of weakness. It's not ruining the mood. If anything, it's giving that woman a sense of, oh, I'm so glad he's checking in on how I'm feeling. Because sex is scary for women. The first time, for many women, I would think the first time, they're insecure too. They're. They're the smaller of the two of you, the weaker of the two of you physically, probably. And so that sort of trust and communication that's so important to women, right?
- [39:12]
A
100%, yeah. Yeah.
- [39:15]
B
Okay. So that's the consent talk, which I 100% agree with. I. There's a chapter in my book about the MeToo movement and about the importance of different ways to get consent verbally and also non verbally, which is another way. What about sex? What about talk? What about sexy talk during sex? Any tips, any things to do, things not to do for men who. Men who just don't know, quote, unquote, what to say during sex?
- [39:45]
A
Yeah, you know, this is. I've. There's an interesting recognition that I had is that a lot of, you know, a lot of people's sex education comes from the adult film industry. Right. And, you know, rightly or wrongly, in that space, I think one of the things that I notice is in a lot of films, the women are really loud and the men are silent. Not only just in, like, what's being said, but also like in. In even hearing breath. And I think that probably comes because, you know, a lot of porn is made for men and they probably don't want to hear another dude. So in just thinking about, okay, so this is kind of like what a lot of sex education comes from. And this is like kind of the sound of it for men that not only thinking about talking, but just to start even further back of thinking about, like, inviting in sound into your sexual experience is so, so powerful. And so even thinking about, like, allowing yourself to, like, really breathe, allowing yourself to really, like, let out the sounds that your body is experiencing and feeling. And this might be like a little bit out there for some of the listeners, but sometimes, like, one of a really great practice is maybe if you're masturbating, to think about actually if. If my dick made a sound, what would that sound be? And allowing yourself to, like, let that sound out.
- [41:07]
B
Wow, that's a great. It's a great tip. No pun intended.
- [41:12]
A
Yeah. Yeah. And just seeing, like, what comes. What comes up for you and like, really allowing yourself first to just like, like, make the sounds that you want. So starting there and then in thinking about talk, you know, and. And everyone's a little bit different. Some people are, like, really aroused by, like, the psychological component of. Of like, the dirty talk. Or some people are, like, really open to, like, just the romantic language that can come out during sex. And. And some people, like, don't want to talk. They're like, I'm like, off in another universe right now. Let's just like, be in our bodies together.
- [41:46]
B
Right?
- [41:47]
A
But if that is something that you're like, oh, I'm like, wanting to say things. I'm like, wanting to verbally express myself. I'm wanting to, like, bring this in. Or maybe she's talking a lot. And you want to be able to respond if you don't know what to say. I often think start with just connecting with the sensations and what you're like, almost like the connecting with your five senses. Thinking, like, okay, what am I seeing right now? And just like vocalizing that, like, oh, God, I love the way that your breasts look like, so starting with, like, what am I seeing? Just vocalizing what you're seeing. Thinking of, like, what am I feeling? Like, oh, my gosh, like, I am feeling, like, so, like, incredible when you touch me here. Like, that feels so great. Just voicing. What are you feeling? Even thinking about, like, what are you hearing? Like, oh, God, I love hearing you moan. Like, voice, like, even just some of that as well as, like, what are you tasting and smelling? Like maybe you smell her hair or like, maybe there's like mint on. On her breath or your breath. And like, just almost like voicing what it is that you're observing and experiencing. If you're like, oh, God, I don't know what to say. Dropping into that first and foremost, I think is a great place to start and. And invite in some of that communication.
- [43:03]
B
Yeah. And I like to tell my clients this is more dating related, not in bed. But I think this advice could extend into the bedroom is I like to say, lead. Go first. Let her know, lead the dating dance and say what you want to say. Your advice is great. Different ways to figure out what to say. And that might give her the green light to say, ooh, he's talking. I want to talk back. And then she might. Because she might be insecure about what to say and not wanting to say something. Awkward. And if you're going first, and she might say, ooh, well, let's both talk to each other. And now you've got not just your body's connecting, but your. Your breathy voice. You're talking. You hear each other, and that can take it to an even higher level.
- [43:51]
A
Yeah. And I think that there are ways as well in that space to kind of lead if you aren't maybe wanting to necessarily communicate, where you could even just say, like. Like. Like, shh, baby, I just want to kiss you. Or like, you know, like in. In shifting, kind of where you're still able to communicate that, but actually communicate, like. Like, I don't want to talk right now. And like, doing it in, like, a. A sexy way, I think is. Is also just something to consider if you're like, oh, God, no.
- [44:23]
B
What if a woman asks you to say something and you don't feel comfortable with it for whatever reason you're in your head. It's a little. It's a bridge too far. This is an extreme example, but. So I write a dating advice column for the Good Men Project, and one of the questions I got a couple months ago or six weeks ago was, the woman I'm dating wants me to make certain animal noises in bed. It was spying like a sheep, and I coached him through on how to handle that, and that might be a bridge too far. So that's an extreme example. But in terms of if your partner asks you to do something in bed that you're just not comfortable, what's a good response to that?
- [45:05]
A
Yeah, so a couple of things, I think in the moment, what comes up is saying, not, like, basically saying, like, hey, that's not something that I want to do right now. Let's do this. How does that sound? And then later on having a conversation about it, I think, like, there's kind of two things that happen here is, like, the. The communication during the sex and the communication after as well as before. And I think, like, what you're bringing up here is a good point of, you know, how can we have conversations about what it is that we sexually desire before stepping into a sexual experience? And it can be really, really powerful and actually kind of like a. An arousing experience in and of itself of understanding the dynamic of, like, what are you into? What do you. Like, what. What are you wanting to do? Or maybe even, like, as you're leading into the foreplay of, like, asking the question, like, what do you want to do tonight, baby? Like, you know, asking some of those things can Be a great way to step into that. But I think in the moment, if you're genuinely like, a hard no, it's okay to say that at least that's kind of. Because I think that if you move forward and do the thing that you don't want to do for one on either end, like, it just doesn't feel good when someone's kind of like, okay, I'll do it, like, just for you, but I'm not really into it.
- [46:32]
B
Right.
- [46:32]
A
Like, that doesn't feel good for, like, everybody. And then. And then you're stuck in this place of, okay, well, like, now I've done this thing that I didn't really want to do because I didn't want to say so.
- [46:43]
B
Right.
- [46:44]
A
And then afterwards, like, really having an open conversation about it. I think that a lot of times there can be shame that comes with some of our sexual fantasies and desires. And so being able to have open conversations that are really, like, free of judgment and, you know, like, not yucking someone's yum as much as possible. And really, I don't know why my. I have a friend who says don't on somebody's lollipop, which is, like, an extreme way of looking at it. And. And. And. But in the aftermath, like, having a conversation, and maybe if it was, I want you to make sheep noises. Having a conversation of, like, oh, you know, that kind of caught me off guard in the moment, and I wasn't. I wasn't a full yes to that.
- [47:30]
B
Right.
- [47:30]
A
Could we talk about that? I'm super curious. What is exciting about that for you? And, like, being genuinely wondering of, like, yeah, like, what is that? Oh, you know, and. And because I think sometimes we make a, like, a big, like, a yes or a no right away to. To a fantasy or to a sexual exchange and without understanding, like, well, where. Where is my line here? Maybe, like, I'm not sure what the sheep example, but, like, maybe she just, like, loves the idea of, like, the sound of animals and being brought, and she's kind of, like, stepping into this, like, animalistic part of herself. But maybe, like, you're like, ooh, I don't really get the sheep thing, but, like, I can be a lion, you know, and I can, like, roar for you. And maybe that's, like, where you meet each other. And so having a conversation filled with curiosity and more questions of, like, what is. What really is the excitement in this for you? And how can I give you that in a way that I am also like, yes to.
- [48:29]
B
Yeah, that's a great Tip about, well, I don't feel like I want to do that right now, but how about this? And then talk about it later as opposed to shutting it down or judging it, which is just going to kill the moment, probably. And this letter writer wasn't me, but me personally. If my girlfriend Jess wanted me to wear a sheep onesie, I would do it in a heartbeat. Whatever makes her happy, I want to do it within reason, but that's me. Everybody's different. And maybe people, certain people like different things. And it's all about finding that, that sexy, fun, connected, maybe even kinky middle ground. But hey, that's how, that's how we figure out who's right for us, is where we find that beautiful, sexy, connected middle ground.
- [49:13]
A
Yeah, yeah. And I think that, you know, it's interesting, right? Like when, when you're out in the dating space, you're looking to see, like, is this person compatible for me? Like, do we have the same values or do our lives align? And I think another great question to ask yourselves is like, are we sexually compatible?
- [49:30]
B
Yeah.
- [49:31]
A
And how. And it's not like we have to be into the exact same things, but like, how can we look at my kind of sexual eroticism and blueprint and desires and fantasies and you and look at your sexual blueprint, eroticism, desires, fantasies, and how can we bring them together in a way that, that works or is aligned? Because I think, you know, if someone has, let's say, kind of looking at one side of like, they're really into like BDSM and kink and dominance, and that is like a hard no for you that can, you know, be challenging to navigate. And so I always like to think in the dating space of like, yeah, are we also sexually compatible?
- [50:09]
B
Yeah. Well, on the topic of unlearning, if you're sexually compatible, I wonder if you feel like this is something you should find out in the bedroom or find out in a conversation beforehand. And here's some context for my question. Before I met my girlfriend Jess, I've been on every dating app in the world. It's part of my 20 year journey doing this. And I went on field back in the day and had a few dates on field. Field being a sex positive, quote, unquote, kink app, F E E L D. It's become very popular. And I was really excited about the kinds of date. I was excited about the conversations I had on my field dates because all of a sudden on a first date we were talking about, oh, yeah, what do you like in bed? What do you not like. And it was so honest and so kind of, kind of vulnerable. And I thought, man, I wish all dating was like this. Everybody's just so open on the field. Ed, I just wonder what your take is on before you even go to bed. Should you talk about what the two of you like sexually and don't like, or is that something you feel is more about you? Find it out. Assuming there's that sexual attraction. Find out in the sheets.
- [51:21]
A
Yeah, I, I think your, your example of going on these field dates is a really beautiful way of, of showing, like, when people are really open, you learn faster if someone's a yes or a no for you. And, and again, you know, I think that every dynamic and relationship is going to be a little bit different. Personally, I think that communicating about what you desire is a beautiful thing to, to explore before stepping into a sexual experience. And if it doesn't happen the first time, that's great too. I think that, you know, being able to express yourself and like, this is what I. Like this is what I'm into. Especially if, you know, you're. You have like a, like a broader bouquet of desires. Like, being able to, to share that with someone, I think could be a really great way to connect and also to, like, get excited about when you do have sex for the first time. Not necessarily a requirement, but I think that if you, if you tried it out, that that might be a really great way to build in more intimacy into your connection.
- [52:36]
B
Yeah, that intimacy. That trust is important. A couple final topics here, and I'll let you go. A woman I was dating at the time, she came out with me, so I do in person coaching with guys. We go out on the town. I'm their wingman. I help them approach women. It's. It's a boot camp. I call it the wingman weekend. And I once brought a woman I was dating out. I'll call her Jennifer. And after the boot camp ended, three or four of my clients sat around and were just peppering her with questions because she's a really attractive single woman. And they were just, they just want to know about what women want. And she said something that really struck me. She said, you know what we want? And she probably was speaking for herself mostly. She's not speaking for every woman, of course, but she said, you know what we want? We just want a good, kind gentleman to treat us well and then take us home and respectfully choke us while he fucks us. I just love that it captured the heart, the trust, but also we can Also get a little raunchy. We can also get a little. And I don't even know if I have a question. I just wanted to share that anecdote and see what your response was.
- [53:47]
A
Yes, I, you know, I think that a lot of women would agree with. You're with. Was it Jessica?
- [53:55]
B
Jennifer.
- [53:56]
A
Oh, Jennifer. Yeah, I think a lot of women would agree with Jennifer. And, And I think that this brings up a really great point just about relationships and dating and life, I suppose. And in general of, you know, a lot of people are really, there's, like, when you have these kind of extreme opposites within your character that. That is just deeply, deeply attractive. Like a man who is so kind and respectful and also, like, really dirty. Awesome. And thinking as well, like, I'm, you know, like a woman who is, like, really, like, playful and also, like, pretty stable, you know, like, that's really attractive. Or like a man who's really driven and then can come home and, like, be super silly. I think. And I think that being able to, for your listeners, like, taking a moment and thinking, okay, like, what within me is my kind of, like, polar opposite? And how can I show both of those parts of myself in my dating life and in my sexual life Dichotomy.
- [54:54]
B
There's two sides. I'm a gentleman. I'm a good, solid, kind, authentic man. But also, I will slap you on your butt if you want that. If you ask for it, if you consent, I will do xyz. Assuming we're both comfortable with it. I think that's what, that's what really struck me in that moment with what Jennifer said is so many men, I think, kind of like the silent majority, I would argue the silent majority of single men, they're afraid of making mistakes. They're. They're. They think it's. It's creepy or they're worried that it's creepy. It's wrong to want to be physical with women or to put some sexual energy out there. And I think what Jennifer was trying to say is treat us well, know that we can trust you, and who knows what. What we might let you do to us.
- [55:42]
A
Yeah. Yes. And. And, you know, that's where, like, I think that safety piece bringing it all back around but come really comes in because I think, like, if. If the. Your woman feels really safe with you when you step into that experience and you, like, you're like, hey, like, how's your day? Or you end the date and it's really sweet, and then you go to, like, kiss her and you grab her hair and, like, pull her in, you know, like, she's gonna feel, like, safe in that. And it's gonna feel even better because, like. Like, that has been established. And. Yeah.
- [56:11]
B
Can you speak for the idea of. Of quote unquote choking? Not. I know it's not literal, but it's. It's hands on a woman's throat again, with consent. I remember the first time any woman ever asked me to do that, and it rocked my mind. I was like, you want me to what? She's like, no, I want you to do this with your hand on my. On my neck. And I didn't really understand the. The what was happening inside of her as to why she might have wanted that. She didn't express it. I didn't just. I was trying to please her, but I was afraid to do it. I know you can't speak for all women, but do you have a take on why some women like that kind of quote unquote, rough sort of touch?
- [56:48]
A
Yeah. Well, and I think especially since we're talking about, like, the neck, you know, and as I mentioned before, it's a really erogenous zone. And so there's a lot of, like, sensation that can be around that place. So even if, like, you're lightly, like, touching her neck or kissing her neck, like that for a lot of people is very arousing as it can be for men as well. And so thinking about now kind of upgrading that a little bit in intensity to placing your palms around her neck and being more firm, that's just like a more intense or like a different type of sensation on that part of the body. There's also, you know, some asphy. I can't never say this word. Asphyxiation. That comes from that as well. That is in and of itself like a sub. A subsection of. Of kink that a lot of. Or fetish that people have. And that there can also be some, you know, physiological sensations that come from that asphyxiation that is also desirable for some people.
- [57:44]
B
Right. Everybody's different. You know, I've had women, I've talked about that, and they were like, hell, no, I don't want you anywhere near my throat. And other women were like this. This woman I met that one time. And that's why we talk, that's why we communicate. And what I love about your. The name of your podcast is to me, I'm reading into your show, so feel free to clarify. But it's. Naked is not just physical. Naked is emotional nakedness. Vulnerability, being transparent. Like One of my old coaches used to say, Connell, before you get naked with a woman, you got to get emotionally naked. I always love that. And that's what I'm hearing so much of what you're talking about. Emotional nakedness first, nakedness second or third.
- [58:28]
A
Beautiful. Yep, you, you're definitely catching on. That was, you know, a kind of like the name of and of itself of thinking about. Yeah. How can we not only be like naked physically with each other and be really in that moment, but also be emotionally naked together at the same time?
- [58:45]
B
And here's a tip, guys, that I. That's worked for me more than a few times. The day after, the morning, after the next day, after the first time you're intimate with a woman. I remember the first time, not the first time ever, but the first time I texted this, she sent me back 12 happy heart faced emojis. I said, her name is Sarah. I said, by the way, Sarah, you look amazing naked. And she wrote back like, oh, my God, thank you. That made me feel incredible. So I always felt, feel like you should try to make that woman you were with feel as incredible as she deserves to feel for being with you. So, yeah, it's a texting tip for what that's worth.
- [59:26]
A
Oh, I love that. Yeah. I think that, you know, in, in certain sexual spaces, like the, the concept of aftercare is also really important. And I think whether you're in like a wild sexual scene or you're having like beautiful romantic intercourse for the first time, like having that follow up, having that, that little piece there, even if it is like a simple text of, of expressing something, just to check in, just to kind of like drop a little pin of like, I thought about that. That was amazing. And you know, I, I'm here still, I think is a, is a really great, a great thing to add into your sexual exchanges.
- [60:05]
B
I would say things like, you look great naked. It could be as simple as, gosh, my bed smells like you. This is a very good thing. It doesn't even matter so much the content. I don't think it's more the intention. It's like, I want you to feel great about what we did last night and hopefully this morning too.
- [60:27]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're saying that piece of like, okay, this is what I saw, this is what I smelled. I think, you know, I do a lot of mindfulness practices with clients and so coming back into that place of like thinking of, of your five senses and even just sharing like, like, oh, God, you, you tasted so good. And I Can't stop thinking about that or what, you know, whatever have you like thinking of a one of the senses if you're like, ah, I don't know what to say.
- [60:53]
B
Okay, two final questions for you, Kirsten, and then we can part ways. If you were made the czar of sex, love and dating, the czar Tsar, Kirsten, and you could wave your receptor and instantly change one thing about how men and women approach dating and intimacy, what might that change be?
- [61:14]
A
Oh, so for, for I'll give like both. So for men, I would say like, just go for it. Like approach her, say the thing like it's gonna be messy. Who cares? Do it. She's probably, if she's into you, she's gonna love it no matter what it is that you're saying. So like, just like fully stepping into yourself I think is, and into what it is that you desire is what I would magic wand be like, chew, go everybody. And then I think for women what I would wish for is, you know, in, in my process of really like, better understanding human sexuality and also like I work pretty much exclusively with men and like really stepping into the space of men's sexuality, I have really come to understand so much more deeply, like the power and depth that lives within men's sexuality and understanding that your sexual experience isn't like just this like simple thing or you're not just like always wanting to have sex. Like there's so much more. And there is like a level of respect that I desire all women to, to kind of embody more around their man and around their man's sexuality and expression.
- [62:34]
B
Last question. For the listener who has been afraid to take some kind of forward step in either love dating in and out of the bedroom, what first small courageous step would you advise the listener who's yet to take some forward steps to help him or her start to build that naked connection.
- [63:00]
A
So, so I'm a huge proponent of self pleasure and I think that there is like a lot that can come from building a masturbation practice, a self pleasure practice, to really connect more with yourself first and foremost and like connecting with the sexual version of yourself. I think the more that you can become really comfortable with who you are as a sexual being when you step into sexual experiences or romantic experiences that, that you just bring that with you and it becomes more easy, more enjoyable, there's more depth available because some of these like in the head questions and, and fears and like not understanding of the self and of the body of your own body are not as present. So Building. I would say, like, building in some kind of practice that is a little bit different. Maybe like trying different things out, noticing what, what do I actually enjoy, you know, shifting things up? I do. I offer, like, a ton of practices and guides for, like, how to incorporate some of this into your life, but I just think that that is a really great place to start. First and foremost, that's great advice.
- [64:09]
B
And for somebody who does want access to your coaching, your content, guidance from yourself, where should people go to find you?
- [64:19]
A
Yeah, I mean, you mentioned probably the easiest places to find me is my website, thenakedconnection.com or go check out the podcast. There's so much fun, exciting stuff. I know you were a guest on there, so it was so great to have you. And we had a lot of fun talking about dating, which I appreciate. So, yeah, go check out the Naked Connection podcast or the website. And I'm always checking my email reading questions. So be sure to. If you have a question or a topic that you want to dive into, send it my way.
- [64:50]
B
Fantastic. Thank you for being here. Kirsten, you were the best.
- [64:53]
A
Thank you so much. This was super fun.
- [64:54]
B
Such a blast. And thank you for listening. You have a million podcasts out there, and you just listen to Kirsten and I talk for an hour. So thank you for your time. And don't forget your dream girlfriend. She's out there and she's gonna love you, but she's gonna have to meet the real, authentic you. So go out there, take authentic, courageous action. Carpe datum, seize the date until next time. It.