Leela Simon Hayes (4:58)

Thanks so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.

Lizzie Smiley (5:00)

Oh, I'm so, I'm so excited because you are such an artist and I love the posers like myself too, who are just playing with digital stuff, but you are doing such amazing things. And I was just, I was just saying to you before I hit record, like, I cannot wait to hear all of this because I am not an artist. I am not at all. And so when I get to be with someone as cool as you, I'm just like, makes my job worth it. Yeah. You are so out of my league, girl.

Leela Simon Hayes (5:27)

You're amazing. And I'm thrilled to be here and I love your work and you are an artist and you, your podcast is art and the work that you do is art. And you're a curator of all the cool, cute things. So, you know. Yeah, I'm thrilled.

Lizzie Smiley (5:44)

Well, thank you. Thank you. This is going to be way too much fun. And you know what? I was like, trying to come up with what to talk to you about. It was the easiest set of questions I've ever had to compile because you're doing so many cool things. Sometimes I have to sit there and I'm like, how do I have this conversation a different way? It's not the same person. We talked to you before, but it's the same topic or even maybe sometimes the same person. But with you, I was just like, I could do five episodes. There's so much we could talk about. So I just want to start with. Because you're out of the norm to average guest, what is your favorite place to sell your artwork right now? Where are you having the most fun?

Leela Simon Hayes (6:18)

You know, it's interesting. Well, it was funny. This all started just because I wrote you an email telling you how much I Love your podcast and just what a great host you are and that I've just learned so much. And, you know, one of the things as I was writing, I was thinking about, like, my kind of theme right now is just all about diversification. And it's just something that, like diversifying my sales channels and my marketing channels. But, you know, I just love selling things. Honestly, like, I really enjoy making art and it feels like it really completes. Completes the cycle to communicate with a customer through a sale. It feels like I'm kind of like building a community and I love that. And it doesn't matter really where that sale happens. It just really. Yeah, it just feels like it completes a cycle. If I was making art in a silo, it would not be as satisfying and I might stop. You know, like, I really enjoy. I really enjoy that part of it. I would say probably my favorite way or place to sell is in person. Even though I don't do it very much, it takes a lot out of me, but I. And I'm such an introvert. But I realized a couple of years ago that in person, markets are really just a series of one on one conversations. It's so like, different than like being on a stage or, you know, doing something like this. But, you know, it's like actually like, you can have really intimate conversations with people in markets and people share a lot about their own creativity or their own interests or, you know, I get an incredible amount of information hearing what people see, especially because I make abstract art. It's up for interpretation. So it's really so satisfying for me to hear how people take it in, you know. And then also in person, I. I get to see people's first reaction, which I don't get to see online. You know, sometimes people email me or leave me reviews or whatever, but in person you just see somebody's like, immediate response. And that tells me more than anything any review ever could. I love reviews, don't get me wrong. But then lately, in the past nine months or so, I've expanded into table linens and I've been creating things that people can mix and match. And so I didn't really expect people to mix and match as much as they do. But what ends up happening is that my creativity is mixing with their creativity. So I'm getting to see like, it's like a collaboration that I just never expected. And I love that so much. People will choose a placemat set and a napkin set that I'm like, I never would have thought of that. And it looks so Cool. You know, I really love variety. I'm really prolific in what I make. It's very improvisational and very. From my most internal experience. And so having that connect with people, really, it just means so much to me. I love it.

Lizzie Smiley (10:00)

I love it.

Leela Simon Hayes (10:02)

I don't do a lot of in person markets because it takes a lot of energy. It takes a lot of energy. But I'm answering honestly. What is my favorite? That is my favorite. I wish I could do more. I wish I could kind of like, say, snap my fingers and just like, be all set up at a market.

Lizzie Smiley (10:18)

It's just set up, right. It's not even just the people. It's the set. It's the moving of the thing. It's just like, how much more expensive did you. How much more, like, profit did I lose on each of these things because of how much they stick out? But you. You know what, you just, you just exposed yourself as like a. Like a. Like a little marketer too, though. Like, you're kind of loving the marketing piece.

Leela Simon Hayes (10:38)

I do love the marketing piece. And I have been. This has been a big career change. And actually this is the first year that I'm going fully on my own in my shop. And before that, I. For 20 years, I've been a graphic designer and creative director, mostly for museums. And some of that I've worked in the marketing departments at different museums. And so marketing comes somewhat naturally to me. I didn't go into graphic design thinking that I would do marketing, but I really love communication, and that's all that marketing is. You know, it's really. I think I enjoy it the most when I think about the individuals that I'm connecting with. And, you know, I think sometimes people can feel a little salesy and uncomfortable about marketing, and I definitely do, too. It's very personal, especially when you're marketing your own art that you made with your own hands, you know? Yes. But when I get really clear on the fact that it's. It's really a service to the people who are looking for what you're making to help them find what you're making. So when I think of it that way, you know, I'm not going to attract the people who are not interested in my work. That's easy. You know, I don't have to. I'm not.

Lizzie Smiley (12:10)

Comes down to mindset.

Leela Simon Hayes (12:11)

Totally.

Lizzie Smiley (12:11)

Yeah.

Leela Simon Hayes (12:12)

Yeah. And. And it can really free you up when you just really can accept I don't need to be for everybody. And I really. It's fine if I'm for very Few people, you know, like the people that are interested in my work are very excited about my work. And that means everything to me. You know, it's, it's really. A lot of people share a feeling of gratitude for the work that I do. I recently sent out a survey to some of my top customers, my top, like, repeat customers. People who I feel like really understand what I'm doing. And one of the questions was, if my business went away tomorrow, what would you miss? And. And there were so many people who were like, don't mess with me. That would be okay. I was like, oh, sorry, I didn't mean to, you know, like, it's just like one of those survey questions you ask. Like, I was. Anyway, it was very sweet to hear how much it means to people, which means so much to me.

Lizzie Smiley (13:16)

You made their brains melt. Okay. You did, you did. So. Okay, here's what I wanna know though. Can you list off for us all the different places that you're selling? I wanna, I wanna hear that real quick because I just realized we didn't say that in your intro. So tell us all the different platforms you're selling on.

Leela Simon Hayes (13:30)

Okay, so I sell on Etsy. I sell on my own Shopify website. I sell wholesale on Fair, I sell in person at markets. I sell on Spoonflower.

Lizzie Smiley (13:46)

Yeah, I was gonna say what is Spoonflower? I definitely wanted to know that one.

Leela Simon Hayes (13:49)

Yeah. Spoonflower is a print on demand site for mostly textiles and wallpaper. So they will print on different types of fabric, quilt, cotton, canvas, upholstery weight, fabrics. It's really incredible and it's really high quality.

Lizzie Smiley (14:10)

And is it sustainable? Like are they doing. You know, a lot of those companies are sometimes trash for that. So I'm just curious from the environment, they're not.

Leela Simon Hayes (14:16)

They're really thoughtful about the type of paper they use for wallpaper and it's simply more sustainable to print on demand for. You know, I can't have bolts and bolts of my fabric in my dining room, you know, but so it's, it's, it's really nice for people to be able to, you know, buy one roll of wallpaper and, you know, things like that. So. So I sell on Spoonflower and Good Mood Prints.

Lizzie Smiley (14:50)

Okay.

Leela Simon Hayes (14:52)

Yeah, I just started with them also within the last year. I really like their company. They're a small print on demand, kind of higher end, like mid to higher end prints and framing. They're based in the UK and they're very artist forward. Anybody can sell on them, but they also feature a lot of artists and Do a lot of interviews and. And it's a really good commission rate. And then I'm starting. I just got accepted into the Houzz. Do you know Houzz? Houz.

Lizzie Smiley (15:32)

Oh, my gosh.

Leela Simon Hayes (15:34)

Yeah. So that's pretty cool. It's kind of like wholesale. It's like a step up from wholesale in terms of commissions. But it's, it's. It's a search engine, like Etsy, you know, it's a search engine connecting me to people that I might not otherwise be connected to. So I'm going to experiment with that.

Lizzie Smiley (15:53)

Yeah, you'll have to come back and tell us. But like Spoonflower and, and the Good Mood Print. Good Mood Prince, is that still this. Do you have to promote those or are they. Is it a search engine as well? It's not like Printify. Right. Where then you have to sell it all. Okay, tell me how that works because I don't know. I don't know either of those.

Leela Simon Hayes (16:07)

They're both search engines.

Lizzie Smiley (16:09)

Okay.

Leela Simon Hayes (16:10)

Spoonflower is a very powerful search engine and they also have an incredible marketing team. But it works best when I'm promoting my stuff. My designs don't sell as well on Spoonflower organically because my stuff is a little weird and it really applies. It really appeals to, to a certain niche. So I do better when I'm directing people to my Spoon flower shop. But, you know, I just sold 6 rolls of 27 foot wallpaper last week on Spoon Flowers. So, like, it's starting to gain traction, which is really great. Good Mood Prints, it's a search engine, so.

Lizzie Smiley (16:58)

Okay.

Leela Simon Hayes (17:00)

And they have a lot of artists that are kind of in the. In a similar visual language to mine. And, you know, I would. All of these things also respond best when I'm uploading consistently to them, which I'm not doing right now because I'm setting up so many other systems in my business, getting ready for the holidays. So, you know, I can't do everything, but. But it is really important to diversify for my particular business because it is so niche and it doesn't apply, it doesn't appeal to everybody. So really finding my people is really important and I haven't put a ton of energy into that over the years. I've just really focused on the people that I already have, which is step one. Absolutely. So I'm kind of expanding in.

Lizzie Smiley (17:57)

Have you been featured on Etsy yet? I feel like that needs to be my.

Leela Simon Hayes (17:59)

I never have.

Lizzie Smiley (18:00)

You okay? Because. Yeah, it was like after Melissa came on the podcast and she'd Already been on there once, but then she got like a match, like a big feature after that. So we need to. Anyone listening who, who likes to like dm or do we call it tweeting? Send it. Yeah, tweet at. Tweeting, tweet at Etsy or anything like that. We need to get Leela's stuff because it's, it is gorgeous. You're. You're really hedging right now, ma'.

Leela Simon Hayes (18:25)

Am.

Lizzie Smiley (18:25)

About the. About like only a certain kind of. And I get it. Like, your stuff is not going to be. It's not a landscape portrait. It's not a pop culture. It is, it is gorgeous, funky, like abstract art. But yeah, I don't like abstract art and I love your stuff.

Leela Simon Hayes (18:43)

Oh, that's cool to hear.

Lizzie Smiley (18:44)

It's very like earthy. Do you know what I mean? It's very boho and earthy, which I. Even though I don't like abstract, I love that. So, yeah, like, you are. I think, I think you're like a broader audience than you think. And I also wanted to ask you, okay, so wallpaper on Spoonflower. Why would you from like your Instagram choose to be sending traffic to the spoon flower rather than your shopify for the wallpaper?

Leela Simon Hayes (19:06)

I do both and it might confuse people.

Lizzie Smiley (19:09)

My brain is breaking. Tell me more.

Leela Simon Hayes (19:10)

I know. So I basically drop ship through Spoonflower also. Okay.

Lizzie Smiley (19:15)

Okay.

Leela Simon Hayes (19:15)

So many channels. So I put a select few listings of my most popular wallpaper styles on my website because there are people who find the shopping experience on Spoonflower to be pretty confusing. Okay, so it's kind of like a service. It's slightly more expensive, but it's really like in, in range with what Spoonflower is selling. So there's a whole world around drop shipping through Spoonflower. And Erin Kendall has a great, a great workshop that you can purchase.

Lizzie Smiley (19:56)

Okay, Erin. Like E R I N E R.

Leela Simon Hayes (19:59)

I N K E N D. I can't spell.

Lizzie Smiley (20:02)

I'll find it. I'll find it and link it. That's really interesting. Also that could be such a fun interview as well, just to hear all about Spoonflower. Like just a whole Focus thing on that.

Leela Simon Hayes (20:11)

She has a really wonderful membership program all about Spoonflower. She's incredible.

Lizzie Smiley (20:18)

Sounds like a great, A great choice for us.

Leela Simon Hayes (20:20)

Wonderful person.

Lizzie Smiley (20:21)

Yeah, we love those around here.

Leela Simon Hayes (20:24)

Wonderful people. Yes.

Lizzie Smiley (20:27)

So great. Oh my gosh. I love that you mentioned that. I'm. Oh, we do. We could talk. I need five episodes with you, my friend.

Leela Simon Hayes (20:33)

Okay.

Lizzie Smiley (20:34)

Okay. So Spoonflower, it's all textiles and wallpaper. So when someone orders from Shopify, do you have wallpaper in your house or do you send it to them from Spoonflower?

Leela Simon Hayes (20:45)

I send it to them from Spoonflower.

Lizzie Smiley (20:47)

It's just not connected. You have to go put that order in. Okay, I'm. Okay. Next question. And I have already gone.

Leela Simon Hayes (20:54)

And the same is true for my, my framed prints on my site. I also drop ship those. So I have a company that I work with who does the printing, the framing and the shipping. And so if I get like this behind me is one of their pieces. I love their work. And they, I put, I get the order in and then I put the order in with them.

Lizzie Smiley (21:19)

Is that, is that like proprietary? Are you, are you, would you be willing to share who that is? Is that your turn?

Leela Simon Hayes (21:24)

I'm not sure who that is. Yeah, somebody was very generous with me about who they work with, so I'll be generous too. They're Gango Custom Printing. They're in Portland, Oregon. And their work is just really high quality and really nice.

Lizzie Smiley (21:42)

You just changed a few artists lives. You literally just broke the ceiling for some other women. Yeah. So thank you so much.

Leela Simon Hayes (21:51)

You know, it's like it's not hard to do drop shipping. It's very overwhelming setting it up. A lot of these things, it's about the setup that is very overwhelming. But once you're doing it, you can iterate off of it. You can be like, okay, well I messed that up, I'm now gonna fix it. It's almost like you don't know what you need to know until you do it. You know what I mean? I think that's true for Etsy too.

Lizzie Smiley (22:21)

Are you a print on demand or digital print product Etsy seller who's tight on time or still learning all of the Etsy secrets? I totally remember the days of having no idea what product to create next before I learned how to make those informed decisions. So I can really identify with where you're at. I know how stressful and frustrating it can be to just create listing after listing and see little to no results. You wonder what you're doing wrong and just, you just want someone to tell you what to create that's actually going to sell. Where are those opportunities? So let me give you a leg up with my weekly trends and opportunities report. You just join my membership and every Monday I'm going to send you an email with a list of exactly what is trending right now with a video tutorial showing you how I found those trends and how to apply them in your shop. We're taking guesswork and time, extensive time off of your table. I'm also going to send you five print on demand and digital product opportunities that are growing in demand right now, helping new shops make sales and still have very low saturation in the marketplace. So your tight schedule, your newbie status doesn't have to hold you back anymore. I'm going to help you earn while you learn. You can grab my free demo to start and see an example of what the weekly trends and opportunities email looks like right from the show notes. See what you're going to get and I will see you on the inside soon.

Lizzie Smiley (23:37)

What's amazing about you is you are cracking so many different things simultaneously. And that was actually the next thing I wanted to ask you is how did you know you were ready for this level of diversification? Because just yesterday I was telling another seller, now she's new. I was telling her, nope, she wanted to go do something else. She wanted to add something else. I said, nope, you need to go harder on what you're doing. And yet you, Leela, are an example of someone who is ready and at the right place to branch out. And it was the right thing to do. The smart move. How did you know you were ready for that?

Leela Simon Hayes (24:04)

Yeah, and it really has been about five years since I've been selling. So thank you for saying that really is a slow process. And I honestly think the slower the better if you really want it to be your main gig. And now, you know, like, I'm very early in this, so I can't speak to a lot of experience of this being my main thing, but it's been a very high percentage of my income as my side gig for five years, I think, you know, can I get a little woo woo? Sometimes we get a little woo woo. Please get one. Okay. You know, I was at a market in December that was terrible. It was not good for me. And I. It was in this very loud space. I was next to a gigantic. It's like a. It's the House of Blues. So it was a gigantic space with gigantic speakers. And my booth area was upstairs in a balcony at a dead end next to the gigantic speaker.

Lizzie Smiley (25:19)

Nope.

Leela Simon Hayes (25:20)

It was hard. It was. Oh, and in the dark. Sorry, I forgot that part. No lighting. No lighting. So once I realized that, like, I was not going to sell anything, I did make my feedback, which was good, but I. I kind of like let go and I was like, I can't hear. I. And I brought earplugs. I bring earplugs everywhere. I Go. Just in case I'm in, like, really loud situations that are overwhelming. Very helpful neurodivergent tip. So I put my earplugs in and I just was like, I'm just gonna smile at people because I can't have conversations, which is my favorite part of selling in person. So I put my earplugs in, smiled at people, and really just kind of like went inward and just, you know, it was hours. Hours. You know, it's like 12 to 6 or something. So I just kind of tuned in to my business as its own entity, like its own spirit almost. And I. I didn't plan on doing this. It was like something kind of came to me that. It was like, what if your business is basically its own. Has its own spirit and its own purpose in the world and you're its steward? Then it was, it was. It. The words came in. What may sound a little condescending, but I. It was like the right moment for me to hear it. The words were, can you please grow up so you can steward it a little better. And I was like, oh, oh, okay. I think I can. You know, like, I was already in a mode of wanting to take it more seriously, but had a lot of imposter syndrome and a lot of, like, shame around selling stuff that was not. That's never been like a super comfortable thing for me. But I. If I'm really honest about it, I love it. I love what I'm making. You better love what you're making. And I love selling it. I love connecting with people around art and creativity. It's my biggest joy, you know, So I felt like I kind of made a pact with my business that I was like, okay, I'm going to do all the scary, we can do hard things things around letting my business grow in ways where it can be seen by more people.

Lizzie Smiley (27:52)

I feel like we could. We could end right there. That is bananas. You. I. I'm over here taking notes because I'm literally like, what if your business has its own spirit to express? Yeah, that's a wild thought. It's obviously not as like, you know, our businesses are. I still. I'm going to put more value on humans. Right. Human. But there is this thing that they need to express that's a little separate from us, and that is really, really cool. And I also think that's really empowering.

Leela Simon Hayes (28:24)

Well, and humans are top priority, and businesses are our way for humans to connect.

Lizzie Smiley (28:29)

Yes.

Leela Simon Hayes (28:30)

So who are we to say that our businesses are. Are extra or not necessary or like, we don't know. We don't know how our work touches somebody. It could be the smallest thing. Like I give out stickers for free at markets and people are like, are you serious? And I'm like, it's a sticker. Like it's okay. But they're like really touched. And even my business cards, I use Moo. So you can. With Moo. Do you know Moo?

Lizzie Smiley (29:02)

No. What a cute name though.

Leela Simon Hayes (29:03)

Oh, it's such a great printing company. They're in New England and they, they're so great. And you can get these little mini business cards and you can put up to 50 different backs on them, which is perfect for me because I cannot choose which pattern I want to put on my business card. So I put 50 different ones. And then at markets, people can choose whichever one they want. Or when I'm shipping my orders, I often include a business card if, if I don't recognize the name, if they haven't ordered with me in the past or if they're from Etsy. I kind of like feel into their energy and pick a little card, like an angel card or something. I'm like, oh, I think they'd like this one. I don't know who they are, but you know, it's, it's connection.

Lizzie Smiley (29:49)

Okay. I'm obviously, I've been sitting here for however long, 30 minutes we've been together being like, I'm literally got to go order stuff from this website and I want you to feel into my spirit and pick a business card for me. Okay. I need a business card. Even though you know me the way, I cannot wait to see what you decide. I. You guys, these show notes are going to be bananas with all of the links. I just think.

Leela Simon Hayes (30:10)

Yeah, I love, I really love sharing resources and I really love when people share resources. It's like, why are we not sharing the resources? Like, MOO is a small business. Gango, the printing company is a small business. We need to all be lifting each other up, you know, so it's like.

Lizzie Smiley (30:30)

It'S just because we've been raised in scarcity, we've been raised to think we have to always be and you know, God love us, always be in self protection mode. Always be watching our back. Like there's. And, and I only hold us partially responsible. It. You know, we were like so raised in this, but we're breaking patterns. We are breaking patterns left and right. I don't know what I'm gonna do next because now I have to go ask, ask my business what it wants to Express. And I don't even. Leela, I don't. It's a really interesting time for you to be bringing this up, so. Oh, my word. Okay. No, I love it. I love it. Okay, so you realized that you needed to. You were ready to expand because it literally spoke to you. You were in. You were open to the feedback. You are sinking into, just in a very open place of, like, what's next for this business? And you let it speak to you. And I think, like, there's a lot of woo to that, but there's also a lot of practical to that. How often do we get quiet enough to just sit and not let our mind race and just sit and. And like, just listen inwardly to what. What the next step should be? There is more wisdom there than I can give you. There is more wisdom there than any expert on this podcast is gonna give you. We can help you with the practical, but holy moly, that's the. That's like, like mic drop just done well.

Leela Simon Hayes (31:46)

And every business is so unique.

Lizzie Smiley (31:48)

Like, it's.

Leela Simon Hayes (31:49)

There's. There's only so much we can give to each other. You really need to listen to what's your. What's your vision? And. And what is the business's vision? And they might not be the same. And then it's like, how do you reconcile that? Or how do we. Or maybe my. I'm afraid of my vision or I'm afraid of the business's vision. Can I be big enough to handle what my business wants to be? Like, these are. It's like, you can have a conversation with your business, like, why not?

Lizzie Smiley (32:20)

That sparks another question related to this woo stuff. Have you ever been in a place, Leela, where things weren't necessarily working and you had to figure out, I'm so excited. And you had to figure out why and fix it, and how did you do that?

Leela Simon Hayes (32:34)

I mean, all the time, you know, doing life is just about a series of experiments and then learning from the experiments and then trying something different. So business is very much like that, and especially a creative business, because there. There is no roadmap. There's nobody who can really tell you exactly what your business wants to. To be, you know? Yeah. So I think of it as a very iterative process. So, like, even when I was, like, starting out on Etsy really early on, I started with a calendar that I had actually just made as a gift, as like an end of year gift for my graphic design clients, and I had been doing well, all this art came to be because I had started 100 day project back in 2018, because I had two decades away from my art practice, and I was depressed because when you're an artist, you really need to be making art. And I didn't really know how to crack back in to into my art practice. It felt so overwhelming, and I felt really detached from it. And I had heard about the concept of 100 day project for many years, but I explored the idea of, like, what would that mean for me? And I kept hearing things like, go back to, like, when you were a kid, like, what kind of art did you love to make? And, you know, just that real essence of yourself as, like, a baby artist, because that's where it all starts, you know? And when I was a kid, I loved ripping tissue paper and gluing it on paper and, like, just really the essence of, like, how different shapes relate to each other and how colors relate to each other. So I created this project called Shapes Relating. And I just drew 10 different, very different shapes, and I chose 10 different colors, and I digitized the shapes and I brought them into the computer, and I just made a different arrangement every day. And I posted it on Instagram at 0followers. And I just was like, I just need the accountability. Instagram was a much friendlier place at that time. I made, like, a lot of friends through this project. Shout out to all my art Instagram friends. I did 100 Days of. I really stuck to it. It was like a lifeline. And I was getting ready to leave a really important job that I really enjoyed, and I loved my team. I was working at a museum as a creative director, and I just wasn't happy enough. I was feeling more calling me, you know, and it's a project that bridged. I started it while I was still working there, and it bridged my leaving there and has continued on. So I did 100 days, and on the 100th day, I accidentally made a pattern. It just kind of, like, came out, and I was like, oh, my God. I didn't anticipate that happening. And now I have to make 100 days of patterns. So I kept going 200 days, 300, 400 days. I just kept going to, like, 827 days or something. And then the pandemic hit, and, you know, I have kids and it was a mess. So but it really, like, got me into feeling confident in myself as an artist. I've kept them all on my Instagram. You can scroll all the way back and see the very embarrassing beginning of my art practice, because I think it's important to see it. Like, it's not. It's not all the top nine squares, baby. It's like so. Yes. So I did this many hundreds of days project to get me back into my art practice. And then I had all these patterns and I was like, I don't know what to do with them next. And I made this calendar for my as a end of year thank you gift for my clients and they loved it and they wanted to like, buy them for their people for the holidays. And then I was like, I had a art studio at the time, a tiny little art studio that was sharing with somebody else. And we had an open studios and I sold out of all of them really fast. And I just was like, that was the first time I was selling something with my art on it. And people were so excited about it. And I had that feeling of like, real connection that was facilitated by my art. How cool is that? So. But I don't remember the question.

Lizzie Smiley (37:33)

No, I mean that, that I am so excited you said all that. But we were just talking about times where you've had. Where things weren't working and you had to like, yeah, go in and figure out. Do you know what I'm saying? Because there are so many artists listening who are like, this is my art. This is my expression. It's not working in the E commerce. And I just had. I had a feeling you would have some piece of. Yes, but you just wrote something right there, girl. Because so many times if everyone listening did created one new thing, even if it wasn't like, okay for. I mean, my. My big old signs, I probably. I don't know, I could have done one every single day. I didn't need to. But even if you're doing digital products, if you're doing print on demand, if you do one design a day, you don't list them all. You do it so you get good. When I was in art school, we copied a bunch of stuff just to get good. That wasn't supposed to be what we were. And people saw this post on the Gram yesterday, and it's a little spicy, but I kind of like it. And it said, I'm. I'm more successful with you because I failed more times than you've tried. And I'm just like, listen, can I say that with a hug? Can I say that with a. You know, people look at you and me and they're just like, oh, that's like, that's just not fair. I'm a talent. I'm like, yeah, you're super talented, too. But I've been putting myself out here since 2008. 8. You know what I mean? And I'm like, failing. I'm still feeling every day, so.

Leela Simon Hayes (38:56)

Too. Yes. And it's beautiful. And it's like having. Having the. The bravery to try things that we don't know if they're gonna work. Like, if we only did things that we knew were gonna work, like, I would do five of the things I've ever done, you know, like, it's not. It's not the goal. The goal is to try and share and that's it. Yeah. I just learn so much by iterating.

Lizzie Smiley (39:25)

Like you were saying.

Lizzie Smiley (39:26)

Like, it's all iterating.

Leela Simon Hayes (39:28)

Yeah. So I put this. I put this calendar that I made on Etsy. You know, I didn't price it right. I didn't do any. I didn't know what SEO was. I didn't, you know, like, but people were finding it and, you know, and, like, I didn't know. I was, like, waiting in line at the post office. Like, I was not. I didn't know what I was doing, but I had started, you know, and then when orders started, I started doing more stationery. And when orders started getting more robust, I was like, wait, people are not waiting in line at the post office. How are they doing it? And then, like, you know, Google is free. You can be like, how do people do this? You know, and then I got myself a printer and a stamps.com account and, you know, all the things that we need to do and. But I wouldn't have. You have to kind of get to a pain point sometimes to be able to know what you need to do next. Yeah. You know, and I think that's kind of that. That whisper that I got last December was like, your pain points are going to need to get bigger. You know, like. And I just set up an affiliate program.

Lizzie Smiley (40:42)

No way.

Leela Simon Hayes (40:42)

Which is huge, because I'm interested in getting on gift guides, you know, Wire cutter girl.

Lizzie Smiley (40:52)

Did you. Have you talked to Gloria yet? Have we talked about this? Have you talked to Gloria yet? I've had two PR episodes with this girl, Gloria. She's in New York. You're going to be obsessed with her, and. And she will get you featured immediately.

Leela Simon Hayes (41:05)

Okay, great. Oh, yeah. And I learned, you know, like, I had. I had emailed all the editors last year, like, trying to get on gift guides. And then I learned that you need, you know, these days, you need affiliate. You need to be able to send out affiliate links.

Lizzie Smiley (41:24)

I think that influencers Would like promote.

Leela Simon Hayes (41:28)

Your stuff and it's not even. Oh, that's a good idea.

Lizzie Smiley (41:30)

Yeah.

Leela Simon Hayes (41:31)

I hadn't even gone that route yet.

Lizzie Smiley (41:33)

And then Melissa, she's got her stuff that like shows up in Netflix video. In Netflix movies and shows.

Leela Simon Hayes (41:40)

I heard that. I loved that episode. That was great. That was really nice to hear. Another abstract artist too. I was like, yes.

Lizzie Smiley (41:47)

And then did you listen to last week's? Because Melissa does more landscape, like moody landscapes. But last week's was Emily Keating Snyder. It was interesting to have you guys both. Right now I'm just like, what is happening? I'm looking for the episode with Gloria so I can tell everyone what it is. 177. And that was like. But she's all about PR features and she didn't go to PR school. Like, she's literally self taught and she's incredible. Y' all are gonna love her.

Leela Simon Hayes (42:11)

Great.

Lizzie Smiley (42:11)

Oh my gosh.

Leela Simon Hayes (42:12)

I cannot wait to hear.

Lizzie Smiley (42:14)

So it's really funny. We've. And we've. We've of course taken this a completely different direction than I even planned, but can we spend some time? Time? Let's. Can you just tell us about your art and your process and can you just. Just tell. We just need to know about you.

Leela Simon Hayes (42:25)

Sure, yeah. Everything that I make is pretty similar to how I made the first hundred days. Everything in my studio starts black and white. I paint with ink. I use, you know, scissors to cut up black paper. I created, create shapes. I just follow my instincts and everything is very improvisational. And I create what I call elements and I put them, I kind of file them in different, I don't know, moods or hierarchies. Things I like the most, things that want to be cut up and made into something else. And so I have like different parts of my process. The making part of the elements, which is all black and white and then kind of curating different combinations. And then I digitize the black and white pieces, create patterns in Illustrator or every program. I actually use InDesign a lot because I'm so used to InDesign from my graphic design days. So, you know, I use programs that are not designed for the things that, that I make. But it doesn't matter. You just use what you use. You know, I use Procreate too, on the iPad. And then I add color at the end. My work is so colorful, but it really has a long period of time. Like 75% of it is black and white and I really add color at the end and it really comes alive in a different way. When the colors are relating to each other too. And I definitely keep some patterns, black and white, because I. I really like the mixture. For a long time, I was creating quilts that were two thirds my colorful patterns and one third black and white pattern. And just the. The way that they relate to each other, I think really is energizing. So. Yeah. And then it just depends what I'm applying the patterns to. So if it's, you know, stationary is so easy, it's nice and small, so I have a lot more leeway with that. Wallpaper is 24 inches wide, so, like, I really have to think about scale, and I like old scale. I like playful, weird patterns that really make you think. Like, I. One of the things. I grew up with a lot of wallpaper in my house because my grandfather was a wallpaper hanger, so he would. We had all the 70s, 80s wallpaper in our house. And one of the things that I look back on is that when you live with pattern, your relationship to it changes over time. So you may think, oh, I see, you know, we had this in our bathroom. We had a grid of. This was very 70s, a grid of brown background and silver lines, like metallic silver lines. And I. For years, I saw it as metallic silver lines, and then after a couple years, I saw it as a silver background and brown squares all over the place. Your relationship change changes. You know, you. You like, expand as your relationship to the patterns expand, and you start seeing things differently. And I love that. And I want to make products that last a long time so that people can have that experience.

Lizzie Smiley (46:07)

Your brain is just this, like, magical place.

Leela Simon Hayes (46:10)

Oh, thanks, Lizzy.

Lizzie Smiley (46:11)

Yeah, I'm just really. Now I'm crushing hard. It's. It's so. It's so precious. Okay. Golly, we. We skipped half of this, but it was. This has been the most special conversation. Let's. Let's love on the new artists a little bit. The people like, not necessarily new artists, but new to trying to turn it into a business. Maybe, or maybe it is new artists. Can we love on them a little bit? What tips would you have for them to get started? Like, how would you encourage them?

Leela Simon Hayes (46:42)

You know, I'm going to butcher this quote, but Georgia o', Keeffe, this is like a very famous quote, but it's really one of my favorites. She said something like, everything I've done in my life, I did. Afraid I butchered it. It's. It's better, I promise.

Lizzie Smiley (46:57)

Beautiful, though. I'll look it up.

Leela Simon Hayes (46:58)

But that's beautiful. I mean, the Sentiment of that is so important to me. And I would say you're never going to be ready. Like, you just get so much anything for anything, ever, including success. You know, you're. It's. It's uncomfortable to grow and it's. We're all babies at what we're doing now, you know, so it's like the. When I was first selling, I, you know, was a baby at selling. And just this past week, I finally finalized three weeks of working on setting up an affiliate program. And boy, was I a baby about that. Like, I had to read legally stuff and I had to, like, think about commission levels and prices and percentages and all of that. And it's so overwhelming to me. But I realized that, like, if I do it wrong, like, if I set up this affiliate program wrong, some publisher who's in. Interested, interested in working with me is going to tell me what I did wrong. They're going to be like, oh, that's too low of a commission. And I'm going to be like, great, I'll make it higher. What does it need to be? You know, like, it's like everything, you know, it's like that Marie Forleo book that I haven't read yet, but I love the title. Everything is Figureoutable. Like, it just is, you know, so it's really just doing the things that scare. Scare you in small doses. So you don't scare yourself too much. You don't jump off the deep end, but you just do little bits of putting yourself out there in ways that stretch you. I mean, here, like, I didn't want to be on video. I told you.

Lizzie Smiley (48:42)

I was like, she didn't have a choice. I was like, guess what? We're going to be out of your comfort zone today.

Leela Simon Hayes (48:49)

Yeah, it is. It's only my second podcast interview, and it's my first one on video. And I actually got on my stories on video right before coming on here because I needed a little exposure therapy of just like, it's not that hard. Just like, here I am, here's my face. I can do this. I can talk in real time, and it really helps me. I think exposure therapy is such a great term because, well, just to like, kind of get back to the woo side. Like, making art and sharing it is a very spiritual endeavor. It's not a light thing, and that is why it is hard. So for people who are new and who are scared, you're not crazy, like, you're doing a hard thing. Most people don't do it. It's Hard, awful. It's so scary, you know, but it's like gradually expanding your capacity is such a safe way to grow. We don't have to do it quickly. In fact, I don't recommend doing it quickly because I do see a lot of people just being like, I'm just gonna build a big business and I'm gonna, you know, like just jump off the deep end. And it's really overwhelming. Most of us are pretty sensitive people, right? We don't need that. Overexpose ourselves or over extend ourselves. We can do it bit by bit.

Lizzie Smiley (50:25)

Are you brand new to Etsy, about to get started or struggling a bit to find your groove? What I'm about to say is just for you, okay? I can completely relate to where you're at because I think I can help you achieve success faster. When I first started my Etsy shop, it was not one of those success stories that we hear, you know, on the big YouTube channels, even on this podcast where I just had crazy success and it took off right away, right? I all but failed for my first six months, just like a lot of new sellers. And so it's very relatable. And the issue for me was I didn't understand demand for one, I didn't understand SEO. I was way too broad in my search terms and I didn't know how to position my product so that customers just couldn't, couldn't help but click add to cart. And so once I learned those things, I went from making about $25 a month in sales to $6,000 a month and up. And in the holidays, I would even have $13,000 a month, like at my shop's peak. And the thing about me, if you've been here for a minute, you already know this. I'm a terrible gatekeeper, okay? When I figure something out, when I crack a code, when I get excited, I cannot help but tell everybody who wants to listen. It's like either my, my best asset or my toxic trait. I can't decide. But I put everything that you need to know to fill that beginner knowledge gap into a low ticket, just under three hours beginner course that I have called Six Figure Secrets to getting started on Etsy. In it, I'm teaching you how to find what's in demand for your niche, how to find and use trends, how to start your shop. If you're worried about that part, SEO strategy to find the micro niches where the opportunity is, how to understand the Etsy algorithm, and a ton more. The whole thing is bite sized videos not long form, just small bite sized videos, zero fluff and to the point, you could get the course today, go through the less than three hours over the next couple days, launch your shop this weekend and have sales coming in as soon as Sunday. So let's get you the few missing pieces of the Etsy success puzzle, those little tweaks you need to make so you can start making the sales that you deserve. Because I have never been more convinced that there is room at this table on Etsy for every, everyone and the opportunity is so ripe right now. I am in the numbers in the data every day and my mind just keeps expanding on the possibilities. Okay, so as a special treat, use the code save50 to save $50 on the six figure secrets course today. That's $50 off with a coupon. Save 50. And by all means DM me or shoot me an email when those sales start popping. Because I want to celebrate with you.

Lizzie Smiley (52:49)

I think it's like one of the saddest parts for me of like the culture today. I actually think there's so many gifts to being live right now. Like I'm just an optimist. I, I try to look at everything I can as positively as I can. I do think our like shortened attention spans is really hurting art 100, like, well, artists, I mean, which, which in turn hurts art. Do you know what I mean? Because we're so used to, to wanting to see results so fast. And especially with art, there has got to be process and there has got to be testing and there has to be iteration. There has to be patience to create something really profound. So do you. Yeah. Have you had any experience with that? Like, with just like the rushing of the. I'm so impressed that you stuck with that for over 800 days, that 100 day challenge. But I do, I think everyone should do that. Like that's, that's really helpful I think for 800 days.

Leela Simon Hayes (53:41)

But even doing 30, I mean just, just the practice is the showing up, the practice isn't even what you're making. You can scroll back on my Instagram all the way back. There's some horrible things. Like, it's so embarrassing, but it's how I got here. And so I love that person who made that like silly little thing when I had, you know, 20 awesome. Some followers who were cheering me on, you know. Yeah, I mean I do agree about the short attention span thing and you know, I'm not even going to get into AI, but I do feel that there are people who, because of all that appreciate the human touch.

Lizzie Smiley (54:25)

More, way more. The value for artists has just gone through the roof. AI is going to make art the most valuable thing that there ever was. It's going to give it so much right now. It sucks, but it's going to give so much value.

Leela Simon Hayes (54:35)

And sending, yeah, we got to go through this period. But sending actual physical products to actual physical humans from your actual physical self is really powerful. And it is kind of a spiritual experience. I'm connecting with somebody I've never met, I probably will never met, never meet. And. And it's a real connection and it means a lot to me. And in a lot of cases, it means a lot to them too. People will reach out to me and be like, I'm really touched by how much effort you put into making this calendar such high quality. Like, the paper that I choose has this incredibly gorgeous texture. It costs way more to do that. I print it locally. I care a lot, you know, and it's hard to show in pictures, but when people receive it, they feel like I've had a lot of people be like, wow, this was a lot more special than I thought it would be. And I've had people buy. This will be my sixth calendar. I just finished the first draft of the sixth calendar and I try to get it to print so that I have it in house mid September when markets start and things like that. I know. And I do a pre sale, which really helps me pay for the printing. And people are loyal to this calendar and to me and it means so much to me. People will. Last year I was having a really low moment and, and like, I don't know that I want to do this anymore. And I, I'm just really overwhelmed and people would be like, well, you know, like when I get your, you know, when I get the 2025 calendar. And I was like, oh, they expect it. Like, I wasn't even sure I was going to do it. But like, I like, let's not start a war, okay?

Lizzie Smiley (56:34)

Let's. Let's not start a. A riot. Okay, Leela, let's.

Leela Simon Hayes (56:39)

But that's, that's a thing. And I have this former graphic design client who's a really dear friend of mine, or I guess I still do some graphic design for her. She's a real estate agent and she in the past few years has bought up to 400 calendars. And I print a custom back of the calendar for her and she sends them to all her clients. And, you know, so there have been times, actually I just did a market in May and somebody. I had a piece of fabric over the table that is the same pattern as the COVID of my current calendar. And somebody walked by, did a double take. She was like, I know you. And I was like, okay, great. Like, who? Hi. You know, and she was like, I'm from Arizona. I was in Boston. She was like, I'm from Arizona. And, you know, this real estate agent that I'm a real estate agent. And this real estate agent that I'm friends with sent me your calendar for the past couple years. And it is my favorite object in my house or something, like, really incredible. And it was just because she recognized, you know, my. My patterns are pretty unique. And she recognized it and stopped and, like, it really. You know, I may never meet her again, but it meant so much to me, and it meant so much to her. You know, it's.

Lizzie Smiley (58:07)

You're famous.

Leela Simon Hayes (58:08)

I love it.

Lizzie Smiley (58:09)

You're famous.

Leela Simon Hayes (58:10)

I'm not famous.

Lizzie Smiley (58:12)

Randos from Arizona are stopping at you.

Leela Simon Hayes (58:18)

I know you. It's a testament to the human connection. Like, I didn't know that that could happen, you know? Like, I never could have anticipated. Anticipated that. But magical things happen when we're doing things outside of our comfort zones.

Lizzie Smiley (58:32)

I need to come up with a list of people to send calendars to. That's really cool.

Leela Simon Hayes (58:40)

Yeah, yeah. So anyone who wants a custom back for their calendar, let me know.

Lizzie Smiley (58:46)

Oh, my gosh. We'll take you up on that. That's awesome. Okay, my love, I have kept you for so long, but this is a beautiful conversation. Where are the best places for everyone to find you and connect?

Leela Simon Hayes (58:57)

My website is lelasimonhayes.com I'm on Etsy at Leela Simon Hayes. I'm on Instagram @lilasimonhayes. My name is spelled L, E, I, L, A. I'm on all the things as my name. I'm on Pinterest also. We didn't really talk about Pinterest, but I have been really putting a lot of energy and attention into Pinterest.

Lizzie Smiley (59:18)

Is it working?

Leela Simon Hayes (59:20)

It is a long game, as you know. It is starting to work. Yeah. And I just started an ad, and that's starting to work too. But I started an ad right when I started Pinterest and that did not work. And then I did a year of pinning organically, consistently, and I have some help for that, and I'm very grateful for that help. And we just started an ad, and it builds off of all the work that we've done organically. So none of these things are quick.

Lizzie Smiley (59:54)

But they're worth makes sense, though, because you needed that year to teach Pinterest who to show the ad to, who to show your pins to, and who to show your ad to. And that is all about finding your niche. And the first month of post isn't going to do it, especially if it's a very specialized product.

Leela Simon Hayes (60:12)

Exactly.

Lizzie Smiley (60:13)

So it makes perfect sense to me. But again, do we have the attention span? Do we have the discipline? Will we choose ourselves enough days in a row to make it? You had a coupon code for everybody as well, because we all need to go buy from your website.

Leela Simon Hayes (60:30)

Oh, thanks. Yeah. If any listeners want 20 off, you can just put Lizzy 20 in the.

Lizzie Smiley (60:40)

Checkout on the website.

Leela Simon Hayes (60:43)

On my website? Yes. And that will go for everything except wallpaper.

Lizzie Smiley (60:48)

Oh, my gosh. Thank you for that.

Leela Simon Hayes (60:50)

Oh, it's a pleasure. I love your podcast and I'm. And I love you and I'm just really honored to be able to have this conversation. It means a lot to me. The heart and soul that you put into this is really special.

Lizzie Smiley (61:08)

Thank you for seeing me. I'm going to try not to cry. We're going to close with the Georgia o' Keeffe quote because it's. You did not butcher it, but it's really great. She said, I've been absolutely terrified every moment of my life and I've never let it keep me from doing a single thing I wanted to do. What else do we need?

Leela Simon Hayes (61:33)

What else is there else to say? Yeah.

Lizzie Smiley (61:36)

Okay. Thank you. I. Hopefully we're friends now.

Leela Simon Hayes (61:39)

Yeah, we are.

Lizzie Smiley (61:41)

Treasure beyond treasure. And thank you for your generosity and your everything you've imparted today. Thank you so much.

Leela Simon Hayes (61:49)

It's a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Lizzie Smiley (61:52)

Guys. If you are not fired up right now and your heart is not bust open, please get some therapy. And I love you so, so, so much. You guys have no idea. I. Everything I do is for you. And until next week, start your 100 day challenge. Go make something awesome. Love you guys.

Lizzie Smiley (62:09)

And that's a wrap on this episode of how to sell your stuff on Etsy. Thanks so much for hanging out with me today. If you're looking for more resources, head on over to howtosellyourstuff.com where you'll find podcast show notes, all the links from today's episode, the blog, courses, coaching, and more. If this episode was helpful to you, awesome. The greatest compliment I can receive from you is a rate, review and subscribe on this podcast. Not only will it allow us to connect again on a future episode. It lets me know I'm providing you with value and helps other people find this content more easily. From the bottom of my heart, thank you for your support. Have a great day and see you next time.